America`s Gun Culture

[easytiger95]

And yet the odds of people being killed by a terrorist in the US are completely minuscule - and I remain to be convinced that the declaration of fealty on Facebok to IS makes you a fully paid up "terrorist", though I'll leave off judgement until the FBI investigation is finished.

But whatever their status, this couple were able to stock up completely legally with assault weapons and munitions and kill 14 people. The NRA are using the atrocities of their best customers to sell more guns to what Bill Hicks used to call, and now unfortunately seems to be entirely accurate, "Bovine America". Wayne LaPierre is one of the most odious creatures to have slithered his way across the national stage of the US, and now he seems intent on slouching his way towards Bethlehem.

If Americans want security at home, they need to give up their unfettered access to guns and leave the investigation and prevention of crime and terrorism to the experts. Not to a nation of concealed carry, paranoid Walter Mittys.

[Oraisteach]

Then, Gmac, it is up to you to make them understand that it has nothing to do with Obama but is the fault of an obstructionist Congress that is slave to very powerful lobbying interests, not least of which is the NRA.

[easytiger95]

Just in case anyone thinks I'm over the top

https://www.nranews.com/series/freedoms-safest-place/video/freedoms-safest-place-demons-at-our-door/episode/freedoms-safest-place-season-1-episode-9-demons-at-our-door

To which the only sane response is - Wayne, I hate to break this to you, but you are actually Satan.

[Gmac]

Then, Gmac, it is up to you to make them understand that it has nothing to do with Obama but is the fault of an obstructionist Congress that is slave to very powerful lobbying interests, not least of which is the NRA.

there opinion is as valid as mine which is somewhere in between tbh.
The media here really try to pit one side against the other one side saying Isis attacks are around the corner the other saying the killer in San bernadihno was being teased about his beard trying to justify reasons for doing it, it's unreal

[moysider]

Here's a conversation I pulled off a Facebook friends' page.....interesting perspective from viewpoint of a concealed carrier (in a conversation with her friend who is all for gun control)


Everyone assumes anything other than what they believe is an oppositional extremist view. I'm not naive enough to think that this stuff won't happen no matter what we do. I do however think that we have a better chance of protecting ourselves and each other if we have some way of defending ourselves in a room full of automatics weapons pointed at us. Imagine you and I are standing at a concert, Julia and Madeline in tow. They are going to try and kill all of us, execution style, regardless of what we say or do. You know I am concealed carrying and I've had the opportunity to practice and be a pretty good shot. Wouldn't you feel better knowing I could at least try to save our and our daughter's lives? I would. And whether you agree with me or not, I'll still pull it out and try to save you all, because it's my right to do that. I'm not saying we should all just have guns laying around. Gun sales on black Friday went up 4% from last year. Guess who reported that? The FBI. Because the people who are buying and concealing are doing it legally and through the system with background checks, etc. The people who are doing these shootings are extremists and/or criminals. Stricter gun laws aren't going to keep these people from obtaining guns ILLEGALLY which is what they do. DO you see my point here? Gun LAWS are for LAW ABIDING people. You know, the people who aren't breaking the law. Stricter gun laws are going to have ZERO effect on criminal use of firearms because they don't follow what? Laws. Right. Why punish the non-problem-causing, law abiding citizens by enforcing laws that don't effect the people who are the actual problem? The only effect that it has is that it makes the illegal gun owners aware of the fact that they will have little to no resistance if they attack.

And the author is completely guilty of the misconception she decries in the sentence in bold. And does not have a handle on the facts. Illegally held weapons are a constant low grade problem. The mass shooters are using legally held weapons and the people using them are not career criminals. Given these facts, the logical conclusion is to limit the supply to the general population and let the police deal with career criminals and their illegally held weapons. Unfortunately the tone of debate in America now does not give precedence to things like logic and fact.

If people in America are scared by the possibility of terrorists/Muslims/refugees/mass shooters they should consider the rest of us looking in, absolutely petrified by what we see their society and political process coming to. It's scarier out here.

You ve nailed it.... except .... the general population don't use their weapons on other people and those that want to, can get guns anyway. Asgard shipment back in the day and the IRA were never short of weapons even though they were illegal. Never mind modern criminals in this country still having no difficulty getting firearms. Mobs in Chicago in the 30's had more firepower than the police. If you want weapons and you have the motive and means you can get one, regardless if you are a loonie or a terrorist on a mission. FFS the Boston bombers made a horrible improvised bomb using stuff you get in a hard ware store and a bit of chemistry they could get online.
If the US and France can t prevent these types of attacks then forget about it.
Anyway this was not a loonie attack and like Paris has brought this game to a different level. Guns are not the problem. They are there to stay. You have as good a chance of limiting guns in the US as getting rid of TVs or mobile phones. Not going to happen so no point wasting time on that. Not a runner.

[J70]

Here's a conversation I pulled off a Facebook friends' page.....interesting perspective from viewpoint of a concealed carrier (in a conversation with her friend who is all for gun control)


Everyone assumes anything other than what they believe is an oppositional extremist view. I'm not naive enough to think that this stuff won't happen no matter what we do. I do however think that we have a better chance of protecting ourselves and each other if we have some way of defending ourselves in a room full of automatics weapons pointed at us. Imagine you and I are standing at a concert, Julia and Madeline in tow. They are going to try and kill all of us, execution style, regardless of what we say or do. You know I am concealed carrying and I've had the opportunity to practice and be a pretty good shot. Wouldn't you feel better knowing I could at least try to save our and our daughter's lives? I would. And whether you agree with me or not, I'll still pull it out and try to save you all, because it's my right to do that. I'm not saying we should all just have guns laying around. Gun sales on black Friday went up 4% from last year. Guess who reported that? The FBI. Because the people who are buying and concealing are doing it legally and through the system with background checks, etc. The people who are doing these shootings are extremists and/or criminals. Stricter gun laws aren't going to keep these people from obtaining guns ILLEGALLY which is what they do. DO you see my point here? Gun LAWS are for LAW ABIDING people. You know, the people who aren't breaking the law. Stricter gun laws are going to have ZERO effect on criminal use of firearms because they don't follow what? Laws. Right. Why punish the non-problem-causing, law abiding citizens by enforcing laws that don't effect the people who are the actual problem? The only effect that it has is that it makes the illegal gun owners aware of the fact that they will have little to no resistance if they attack.

But so many of these mass murderers DO get their guns legally! Isn't there some merit to tracing how many guns and rounds of ammo people buy on that basis? I wouldn't know where to begin to buy a gun in NYC, whereas when we're out west at the wife's home place I can just stroll into a sports shop to get a nice weapon and a pair of runners. How is the background and tracing stuff going to hurt the law abiding gun enthusiast?

[moysider]

Here's a conversation I pulled off a Facebook friends' page.....interesting perspective from viewpoint of a concealed carrier (in a conversation with her friend who is all for gun control)


Everyone assumes anything other than what they believe is an oppositional extremist view. I'm not naive enough to think that this stuff won't happen no matter what we do. I do however think that we have a better chance of protecting ourselves and each other if we have some way of defending ourselves in a room full of automatics weapons pointed at us. Imagine you and I are standing at a concert, Julia and Madeline in tow. They are going to try and kill all of us, execution style, regardless of what we say or do. You know I am concealed carrying and I've had the opportunity to practice and be a pretty good shot. Wouldn't you feel better knowing I could at least try to save our and our daughter's lives? I would. And whether you agree with me or not, I'll still pull it out and try to save you all, because it's my right to do that. I'm not saying we should all just have guns laying around. Gun sales on black Friday went up 4% from last year. Guess who reported that? The FBI. Because the people who are buying and concealing are doing it legally and through the system with background checks, etc. The people who are doing these shootings are extremists and/or criminals. Stricter gun laws aren't going to keep these people from obtaining guns ILLEGALLY which is what they do. DO you see my point here? Gun LAWS are for LAW ABIDING people. You know, the people who aren't breaking the law. Stricter gun laws are going to have ZERO effect on criminal use of firearms because they don't follow what? Laws. Right. Why punish the non-problem-causing, law abiding citizens by enforcing laws that don't effect the people who are the actual problem? The only effect that it has is that it makes the illegal gun owners aware of the fact that they will have little to no resistance if they attack.

But so many of these mass murderers DO get their guns legally! Isn't there some merit to tracing how many guns and rounds of ammo people buy on that basis? I wouldn't know where to begin to buy a gun in NYC, whereas when we're out west at the wife's home place I can just stroll into a sports shop to get a nice weapon and a pair of runners. How is the background and tracing stuff going to hurt the law abiding gun enthusiast?

Really? Have you actually tried to go through the process? I assume they are on display in cases? I doubt you can pick one up and carry it to the the counter and pay for it like you would a ham? I dunno? I assume you just cant buy a gun like a toy or a tin of beans?

Besides the point anyway. People that want deadly weapons get them anyway. Bans don t work and the US knows that better than anybody. Prohibition didn t turn out too well. In fact that probably contributed to the gun culture.

[J70]

Here's a conversation I pulled off a Facebook friends' page.....interesting perspective from viewpoint of a concealed carrier (in a conversation with her friend who is all for gun control)


Everyone assumes anything other than what they believe is an oppositional extremist view. I'm not naive enough to think that this stuff won't happen no matter what we do. I do however think that we have a better chance of protecting ourselves and each other if we have some way of defending ourselves in a room full of automatics weapons pointed at us. Imagine you and I are standing at a concert, Julia and Madeline in tow. They are going to try and kill all of us, execution style, regardless of what we say or do. You know I am concealed carrying and I've had the opportunity to practice and be a pretty good shot. Wouldn't you feel better knowing I could at least try to save our and our daughter's lives? I would. And whether you agree with me or not, I'll still pull it out and try to save you all, because it's my right to do that. I'm not saying we should all just have guns laying around. Gun sales on black Friday went up 4% from last year. Guess who reported that? The FBI. Because the people who are buying and concealing are doing it legally and through the system with background checks, etc. The people who are doing these shootings are extremists and/or criminals. Stricter gun laws aren't going to keep these people from obtaining guns ILLEGALLY which is what they do. DO you see my point here? Gun LAWS are for LAW ABIDING people. You know, the people who aren't breaking the law. Stricter gun laws are going to have ZERO effect on criminal use of firearms because they don't follow what? Laws. Right. Why punish the non-problem-causing, law abiding citizens by enforcing laws that don't effect the people who are the actual problem? The only effect that it has is that it makes the illegal gun owners aware of the fact that they will have little to no resistance if they attack.

But so many of these mass murderers DO get their guns legally! Isn't there some merit to tracing how many guns and rounds of ammo people buy on that basis? I wouldn't know where to begin to buy a gun in NYC, whereas when we're out west at the wife's home place I can just stroll into a sports shop to get a nice weapon and a pair of runners. How is the background and tracing stuff going to hurt the law abiding gun enthusiast?

Really? Have you actually tried to go through the process? I assume they are on display in cases? I doubt you can pick one up and carry it to the the counter and pay for it like you would a ham? I dunno? I assume you just cant buy a gun like a toy or a tin of beans?

Besides the point anyway. People that want deadly weapons get them anyway. Bans don t work and the US knows that better than anybody. Prohibition didn t turn out too well. In fact that probably contributed to the gun culture.

Not sure exactly what the rules are in her state, but it's not onerous judging by the routine nature of gun ownership there. I've been to family events where people were even open carrying. A little unnerving with small kids around, even climbing around the people packing.

I'm not advocating a ban. That ship sailed long ago.

[J70]

Just looked it up -you get a concealed carry permit from the local sheriff. Must be a six month resident, 18 years of age at least, and have a state issued id and show you can handle a weapon aND hAve had some training. Sheriff runs a basic check and all being good, you have your permit within 60 days. Permit is only needed in towns and cities.

That's it.

Any other gun you can just go in and buy, as long as you don't appear drunk or on drugs. No background checks or licenses or permits. No records. No limits on ammo or number of weapons.

[whitey]

I've heard that you can buy/sell guns at yard sales down in TX....now that's fvckin madness!!

The fella who cuts my hair told me that he has about 20 guns. Rifles, shotguns, handguns....the lot...you name it he's got it. His view is that why should his constitutional rights be infringed upon when he has never broken any laws... "It's no ones fvckin business how many guns he has".

Anyway, these 2 w**kers out in TX also had pipe bombs, so even if they hadnt obtained firearms they would probably still have been able to kill people if they wanted.

The Marathon Bombers had pressure cooker bombs and one illegally held firearm. They killed 3 with the bombs and shot the MIT cop with the gun

I think if Obama overplays the gun angle on this one, and underplays the terrorist angle he's making a big mistake.

I don't have a gun, and I don't want one because I have kids in the house, but I know plenty who are thinking of getting one given the threat of executive action that's been rumourdd

[whitey]

http://buzzpo.com/new-york-sheriff-asks-citizens-to-carry-a-firearm-in-light-of-recent-events/?utm_content=buffer8cd51&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=positivelyrepublican

LOL...Democratic Sheriff of Ulster County asks for citizens who are licensed to carry their firearms with them at all times

[omaghjoe]

Here's a conversation I pulled off a Facebook friends' page.....interesting perspective from viewpoint of a concealed carrier (in a conversation with her friend who is all for gun control)


Everyone assumes anything other than what they believe is an oppositional extremist view. I'm not naive enough to think that this stuff won't happen no matter what we do. I do however think that we have a better chance of protecting ourselves and each other if we have some way of defending ourselves in a room full of automatics weapons pointed at us. Imagine you and I are standing at a concert, Julia and Madeline in tow. They are going to try and kill all of us, execution style, regardless of what we say or do. You know I am concealed carrying and I've had the opportunity to practice and be a pretty good shot. Wouldn't you feel better knowing I could at least try to save our and our daughter's lives? I would. And whether you agree with me or not, I'll still pull it out and try to save you all, because it's my right to do that. I'm not saying we should all just have guns laying around. Gun sales on black Friday went up 4% from last year. Guess who reported that? The FBI. Because the people who are buying and concealing are doing it legally and through the system with background checks, etc. The people who are doing these shootings are extremists and/or criminals. Stricter gun laws aren't going to keep these people from obtaining guns ILLEGALLY which is what they do. DO you see my point here? Gun LAWS are for LAW ABIDING people. You know, the people who aren't breaking the law. Stricter gun laws are going to have ZERO effect on criminal use of firearms because they don't follow what? Laws. Right. Why punish the non-problem-causing, law abiding citizens by enforcing laws that don't effect the people who are the actual problem? The only effect that it has is that it makes the illegal gun owners aware of the fact that they will have little to no resistance if they attack.

But so many of these mass murderers DO get their guns legally! Isn't there some merit to tracing how many guns and rounds of ammo people buy on that basis? I wouldn't know where to begin to buy a gun in NYC, whereas when we're out west at the wife's home place I can just stroll into a sports shop to get a nice weapon and a pair of runners. How is the background and tracing stuff going to hurt the law abiding gun enthusiast?

Really? Have you actually tried to go through the process? I assume they are on display in cases? I doubt you can pick one up and carry it to the the counter and pay for it like you would a ham? I dunno? I assume you just cant buy a gun like a toy or a tin of beans?

Besides the point anyway. People that want deadly weapons get them anyway. Bans don t work and the US knows that better than anybody. Prohibition didn t turn out too well. In fact that probably contributed to the gun culture.

Not sure exactly what the rules are in her state, but it's not onerous judging by the routine nature of gun ownership there. I've been to family events where people were even open carrying. A little unnerving with small kids around, even climbing around the people packing.

I'm not advocating a ban. That ship sailed long ago.

Must be Arizona then?

Easy for me to say as its not my family but where you not tempted to blow town? I wouldnt want my weans around the like of that

[armaghniac]

http://buzzpo.com/new-york-sheriff-asks-citizens-to-carry-a-firearm-in-light-of-recent-events]

LOL...Democratic Sheriff of Ulster County asks for citizens who are licensed to carry their firearms with them at all times

Fecking Ulster people


This idea that you can protect yourself against terrorists by packing guns is complete and utter bollix. People cannot be allowed bring guns to concerts and the like as they could be lunatics or might just be spaced out. I've expressed doubts as to the terrorist nature of the recent event, but if gun fan like this guy went to shot his workmates he'd simply shoot those with guns first. Real terrorists would simply use bombs or the like. The attacker always has the advantage in the timing, location, choice of weapons etc. Basically your easily obtained gun might be of some use if someone else with an easily obtained gun loses the plot, against a well planned attack it is feck all use.

[omaghjoe]

Here's a conversation I pulled off a Facebook friends' page.....interesting perspective from viewpoint of a concealed carrier (in a conversation with her friend who is all for gun control)


Everyone assumes anything other than what they believe is an oppositional extremist view. I'm not naive enough to think that this stuff won't happen no matter what we do. I do however think that we have a better chance of protecting ourselves and each other if we have some way of defending ourselves in a room full of automatics weapons pointed at us. Imagine you and I are standing at a concert, Julia and Madeline in tow. They are going to try and kill all of us, execution style, regardless of what we say or do. You know I am concealed carrying and I've had the opportunity to practice and be a pretty good shot. Wouldn't you feel better knowing I could at least try to save our and our daughter's lives? I would. And whether you agree with me or not, I'll still pull it out and try to save you all, because it's my right to do that. I'm not saying we should all just have guns laying around. Gun sales on black Friday went up 4% from last year. Guess who reported that? The FBI. Because the people who are buying and concealing are doing it legally and through the system with background checks, etc. The people who are doing these shootings are extremists and/or criminals. Stricter gun laws aren't going to keep these people from obtaining guns ILLEGALLY which is what they do. DO you see my point here? Gun LAWS are for LAW ABIDING people. You know, the people who aren't breaking the law. Stricter gun laws are going to have ZERO effect on criminal use of firearms because they don't follow what? Laws. Right. Why punish the non-problem-causing, law abiding citizens by enforcing laws that don't effect the people who are the actual problem? The only effect that it has is that it makes the illegal gun owners aware of the fact that they will have little to no resistance if they attack.

But so many of these mass murderers DO get their guns legally! Isn't there some merit to tracing how many guns and rounds of ammo people buy on that basis? I wouldn't know where to begin to buy a gun in NYC, whereas when we're out west at the wife's home place I can just stroll into a sports shop to get a nice weapon and a pair of runners. How is the background and tracing stuff going to hurt the law abiding gun enthusiast?

Really? Have you actually tried to go through the process? I assume they are on display in cases? I doubt you can pick one up and carry it to the the counter and pay for it like you would a ham? I dunno? I assume you just cant buy a gun like a toy or a tin of beans?

Besides the point anyway. People that want deadly weapons get them anyway. Bans don t work and the US knows that better than anybody. Prohibition didn t turn out too well. In fact that probably contributed to the gun culture.

Not sure exactly what the rules are in her state, but it's not onerous judging by the routine nature of gun ownership there. I've been to family events where people were even open carrying. A little unnerving with small kids around, even climbing around the people packing.

I'm not advocating a ban. That ship sailed long ago.

Must be Arizona then?

Easy for me to say as its not my family but where you not tempted to blow town? I wouldnt want my weans around the like of that

Batshit, just batshit. Come on what the fk. Perspective America. Guns bad
Really disturbed how some Irish ex pats slip into the narrative after a few years over there, that this is anywhere approaching a 'normal' debate.

On a side note has anyone ever smelled bat urine? Horrible piercing smell, i dont think that it could ever really leave you if you smelt it properly once. When I read your post it reminded it of it and I could actually smell it again

[seafoid]

Mental illness is a huge factor in US gun massacres. Wayne la Pierre on top and it's a mess.
But it'll never change. Violence is one of the major legacies of settler colonialism. No surprise that the Americas have the highest murder rates in the world.