America`s Gun Culture

Started by Wildweasel74, December 14, 2012, 06:00:57 PM

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omaghjoe

Quote from: JimStynes on October 08, 2015, 08:33:09 PM
Not reading back through the thread so can someone summarise it. Do people generally agree that America should have tighter gun controls or are there some people playing the 'We need more guns to protect ourselves' card?

Everyone pretty much agrees that there is too many guns but how to get them off the streets is the discussion.

Iceman keeps one under the pillow, used to run with a dodgy crowd and would hand you yer arse in the Octagon.

magpie seanie

Quote from: JoG2 on October 08, 2015, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 08, 2015, 03:01:21 PM
I find this hard to reconcile at times. I'm vehemently anti guns. I don't think anyone should have a gun. However, if I lived in the US with my wife and two girls I think I'd have a gun.

I don't understand this. Why? I lived over through for nearly a year, and getting a gun never entered into my thinking.

A whole year? Wow.

Do you have kids? My thoughts might seem extreme but when it comes to my kids I tend to err very much on the side of caution and make no apologies for it.

magpie seanie

I like the amnesty idea. I'd propose the following:

Amnesty period where any/all guns must be registered. Unregistered guns found after amnesty = minimum 20 years in jail. If you don't register your gun you are basically admitting you're up to no good so jail them before they kill someone.

Then I'd try to cut off the supply.

Guns have no place in society, especially when they make people like me think mental thoughts like I've mentioned above.

muppet

I find this concept of defending the right to an arsenal, because of the risk of corrupt government, to be complete insanity.

One man's corruption is another man's living. That is not to defend corruption, just to point out that it is rarely easily defined or absolute.

No matter how bad the politicians in the US might be, they can be voted out, unlike for example Putin. Part of democracy is the stupidity of the electorate. But they have a right right to be stupid and vote as they wish. Allowing these people the right to stock up on weapons just in case they are unhappy with their politicians, is madness in my opinion.

Another aspect that got me thinking was the plethora of brilliant, but violent ,TV series we all watch from the US. For us in Ireland they are fantasy. But if you watched, for example, The Killing and lived in Seattle, or Dexter and lived in Miami, or Breaking Bad and lived in Albuquerque, the violence might look far more real, as in closer to home and affect the more impressionable. Is this a possible cause of 'the fear' that others have referred to above?
MWWSI 2017

The Iceman

what if you watched Love/hate and lived in Dublin?

I think the Amnesty to register guns is a great idea. Harsh penalties would help too.  The thing to consider though is local law enforcement on a state by state basis. Some would choose not to enforce.
Like in California they very lenient towards illegal immigrants. Any illegals who are arrested on petty crimes or misdemeanors should be deported, but they are not, the CA police choose not to enforce it.  I wonder how they would get the state by state police to enforce such laws. I know a lot of cops and they have a load of guns themselves - probably one they should never have.

Muppet you are right - the whole corrupt government thing is crazy. But these are the cards you have to deal with. Pointing out they are shit doesn't win the hand.
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

stew

An amnesty will never happen, it is ingrained in them the right to bear arms, if the Govt tried this in any form they would be out on the streets protesting with fecking uzi's and all sorts of auto and semi automatic weaponry.

The NRA is too strong, they are bastards but they are incredibly well funded and own the politicians.

I am anti gun btw, I just never see anything like this being allowed to happen.
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

JoG2

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 09, 2015, 10:09:39 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 08, 2015, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 08, 2015, 03:01:21 PM
I find this hard to reconcile at times. I'm vehemently anti guns. I don't think anyone should have a gun. However, if I lived in the US with my wife and two girls I think I'd have a gun.

I don't understand this. Why? I lived over through for nearly a year, and getting a gun never entered into my thinking.

A whole year? Wow.

Do you have kids? My thoughts might seem extreme but when it comes to my kids I tend to err very much on the side of caution and make no apologies for it.

no need to be a smart hole

Yes I have kids and wouldn't entertain the notion of having a gun, either here or anywhere for that matter. You say you are anti-guns, why would you have one if you lived state side?  Makes zero sense to me

blewuporstuffed

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 09, 2015, 10:09:39 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 08, 2015, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 08, 2015, 03:01:21 PM
I find this hard to reconcile at times. I'm vehemently anti guns. I don't think anyone should have a gun. However, if I lived in the US with my wife and two girls I think I'd have a gun.

I don't understand this. Why? I lived over through for nearly a year, and getting a gun never entered into my thinking.

A whole year? Wow.

Do you have kids? My thoughts might seem extreme but when it comes to my kids I tend to err very much on the side of caution and make no apologies for it.

Surely that's even more reason not to have a gun in the house?
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

JoG2

Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 09, 2015, 03:54:46 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 09, 2015, 10:09:39 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 08, 2015, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 08, 2015, 03:01:21 PM
I find this hard to reconcile at times. I'm vehemently anti guns. I don't think anyone should have a gun. However, if I lived in the US with my wife and two girls I think I'd have a gun.

I don't understand this. Why? I lived over through for nearly a year, and getting a gun never entered into my thinking.

A whole year? Wow.

Do you have kids? My thoughts might seem extreme but when it comes to my kids I tend to err very much on the side of caution and make no apologies for it.

Surely that's even more reason not to have a gun in the house?

this is what I cannot get my head around. Someone breaks into my house the last thing I'd want to do is start a gun fight in a confined space with the children about.

The Iceman

Quote from: stew on October 09, 2015, 03:49:48 PM
An amnesty will never happen, it is ingrained in them the right to bear arms, if the Govt tried this in any form they would be out on the streets protesting with fecking uzi's and all sorts of auto and semi automatic weaponry.

The NRA is too strong, they are b**tards but they are incredibly well funded and own the politicians.

I am anti gun btw, I just never see anything like this being allowed to happen.

He wasn't suggesting a hand your guns in amnesty - more a register your guns amnesty - a period of time to do it for free maybe? quick and easy.  If you don't register weapons and are found to be in possession of weapons they you get jail time or a huge fine.. I think it would work on a level...
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

muppet

Quote from: The Iceman on October 09, 2015, 03:32:52 PM
what if you watched Love/hate and lived in Dublin?

I think the Amnesty to register guns is a great idea. Harsh penalties would help too.  The thing to consider though is local law enforcement on a state by state basis. Some would choose not to enforce.
Like in California they very lenient towards illegal immigrants. Any illegals who are arrested on petty crimes or misdemeanors should be deported, but they are not, the CA police choose not to enforce it.  I wonder how they would get the state by state police to enforce such laws. I know a lot of cops and they have a load of guns themselves - probably one they should never have.

Muppet you are right - the whole corrupt government thing is crazy. But these are the cards you have to deal with. Pointing out they are shit doesn't win the hand.

Yes that might be the start of something in Ireland. But it was just one programme. It would be impossible to put a figure on who might be affected by that type of programme, but if there were more programmes, based say in Belfast, Cork, Galway etc, it would reinforce the impression, especially for the impressionable.

I spent 5/6 weeks in a small city in the US years ago. It was a bit of a backwater, but the people were nice and it seemed very quiet. That was my impression, until I decided to pick up a local paper and discovered it was then the murder capital of the USA, at least according to the paper. It changed my perception of the place dramatically, but how do I reconcile that with not having seen anything remotely threatening? I was better off in ignorance.
MWWSI 2017

stew

Quote from: The Iceman on October 09, 2015, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: stew on October 09, 2015, 03:49:48 PM
An amnesty will never happen, it is ingrained in them the right to bear arms, if the Govt tried this in any form they would be out on the streets protesting with fecking uzi's and all sorts of auto and semi automatic weaponry.

The NRA is too strong, they are b**tards but they are incredibly well funded and own the politicians.

I am anti gun btw, I just never see anything like this being allowed to happen.

He wasn't suggesting a hand your guns in amnesty - more a register your guns amnesty - a period of time to do it for free maybe? quick and easy.  If you don't register weapons and are found to be in possession of weapons they you get jail time or a huge fine.. I think it would work on a level...

It wont work sadly, these boys will refuse to register the majority of them will, they are that adamant in their constitutional rights, you cant put them all in jail for failing to register and the NRA will never let that happen, it will be shot down (Pardon the pun)
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

muppet

Quote from: stew on October 11, 2015, 02:50:17 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 09, 2015, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: stew on October 09, 2015, 03:49:48 PM
An amnesty will never happen, it is ingrained in them the right to bear arms, if the Govt tried this in any form they would be out on the streets protesting with fecking uzi's and all sorts of auto and semi automatic weaponry.

The NRA is too strong, they are b**tards but they are incredibly well funded and own the politicians.

I am anti gun btw, I just never see anything like this being allowed to happen.

He wasn't suggesting a hand your guns in amnesty - more a register your guns amnesty - a period of time to do it for free maybe? quick and easy.  If you don't register weapons and are found to be in possession of weapons they you get jail time or a huge fine.. I think it would work on a level...

It wont work sadly, these boys will refuse to register the majority of them will, they are that adamant in their constitutional rights, you cant put them all in jail for failing to register and the NRA will never let that happen, it will be shot down (Pardon the pun)

Grand. A school shooting every couple of months it is then.
MWWSI 2017

stew

Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 02:55:41 PM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2015, 02:50:17 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 09, 2015, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: stew on October 09, 2015, 03:49:48 PM
An amnesty will never happen, it is ingrained in them the right to bear arms, if the Govt tried this in any form they would be out on the streets protesting with fecking uzi's and all sorts of auto and semi automatic weaponry.

The NRA is too strong, they are b**tards but they are incredibly well funded and own the politicians.

I am anti gun btw, I just never see anything like this being allowed to happen.

He wasn't suggesting a hand your guns in amnesty - more a register your guns amnesty - a period of time to do it for free maybe? quick and easy.  If you don't register weapons and are found to be in possession of weapons they you get jail time or a huge fine.. I think it would work on a level...

It wont work sadly, these boys will refuse to register the majority of them will, they are that adamant in their constitutional rights, you cant put them all in jail for failing to register and the NRA will never let that happen, it will be shot down (Pardon the pun)

Grand. A school shooting every couple of months it is then.

Don't shoot the messenger muppet, I did not say I agreed with it!

Below is a quote at the school were 9 innocent people died recently.



The college interim president said she would not support armed security because the campus was a place of beauty, serenity and love. Where the f#ck do these assholes come from?

There was a veteran who had a legal weapon, concealed carry permit 200 yards away, he wanted to go help but was told to stay put by staff members on campus, the NRA are using this liberal kind of shite to make their argument and I can understand why.

One last thing, if I lived in London I would vote labor, I despise the NRA and in no way endorse the use of guns, in this case, I would have given yer man the green light to go kill the athiest asshole who destroyed 9 people.
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

muppet

Quote from: stew on October 12, 2015, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 11, 2015, 02:55:41 PM
Quote from: stew on October 11, 2015, 02:50:17 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on October 09, 2015, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: stew on October 09, 2015, 03:49:48 PM
An amnesty will never happen, it is ingrained in them the right to bear arms, if the Govt tried this in any form they would be out on the streets protesting with fecking uzi's and all sorts of auto and semi automatic weaponry.

The NRA is too strong, they are b**tards but they are incredibly well funded and own the politicians.

I am anti gun btw, I just never see anything like this being allowed to happen.

He wasn't suggesting a hand your guns in amnesty - more a register your guns amnesty - a period of time to do it for free maybe? quick and easy.  If you don't register weapons and are found to be in possession of weapons they you get jail time or a huge fine.. I think it would work on a level...

It wont work sadly, these boys will refuse to register the majority of them will, they are that adamant in their constitutional rights, you cant put them all in jail for failing to register and the NRA will never let that happen, it will be shot down (Pardon the pun)

Grand. A school shooting every couple of months it is then.

Don't shoot the messenger muppet, I did not say I agreed with it!

Below is a quote at the school were 9 innocent people died recently.



The college interim president said she would not support armed security because the campus was a place of beauty, serenity and love. Where the f#ck do these assholes come from?

There was a veteran who had a legal weapon, concealed carry permit 200 yards away, he wanted to go help but was told to stay put by staff members on campus, the NRA are using this liberal kind of shite to make their argument and I can understand why.

One last thing, if I lived in London I would vote labor, I despise the NRA and in no way endorse the use of guns, in this case, I would have given yer man the green light to go kill the athiest asshole who destroyed 9 people.

If 'yer man' had shot kids accidentally while trying to 'kill the atheist asshole', would you take responsibility if you were a staff member?

This type of NRA discourse is complete lunacy. LOOK OVER THERE! A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN. WE NEED HIM TO KILL THE BAD GUY WITH A GUN.

Guns are the problem, as are the people who insist on inserting them into as many facets of society as possible. I agree with the college interim president. More gun-toting nut jobs is not the solution.

Here is a question for you Stew. Considering what happened on 911, why doesn't the USA allow every passenger and crew member to pack heat on board every flight? Y'know, so there will be more good guys with guns than bad guys with guns?
MWWSI 2017