Teachers get it handy!

Started by wherefromreferee?, June 20, 2008, 08:49:07 AM

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JimStynes

Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 10:46:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 20, 2021, 10:10:09 AM
Unions definitely the reason the schools are closed in the North. I know the pressure they put on certain MLA's who then in turn basically used it as a political football to attack Weir. Same with the 11+. Interesting those same MLA's never once criticised the schools for using the exam which is the crux of the issue.
There is no plan to even open schools even when infections drop. It would appear schools will remain closed until Covid is completely eradicated. Answers on a postcard when that will be. Meanwhile the gap between the have's and have nots gets larger.

I know of one leading Grammar school in Belfast where they'd almost 160 kids and 14 teachers out either from testing positive for Covid or isolating due to being in close contact with someone who'd tested positive in the school environment in the lead up to Christmas.

If it got any worse they were going to have to close unilaterally due to the lack of teachers but sure schools don't spread it.

How many deaths did we having in the North yesterday, just the 24 was it?
Don't be saying that. It doesn't spread in schools sure.

trailer

Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 10:46:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 20, 2021, 10:10:09 AM
Unions definitely the reason the schools are closed in the North. I know the pressure they put on certain MLA's who then in turn basically used it as a political football to attack Weir. Same with the 11+. Interesting those same MLA's never once criticised the schools for using the exam which is the crux of the issue.
There is no plan to even open schools even when infections drop. It would appear schools will remain closed until Covid is completely eradicated. Answers on a postcard when that will be. Meanwhile the gap between the have's and have nots gets larger.

I know of one leading Grammar school in Belfast where they'd almost 160 kids and 14 teachers out either from testing positive for Covid or isolating due to being in close contact with someone who'd tested positive in the school environment in the lead up to Christmas.

If it got any worse they were going to have to close unilaterally due to the lack of teachers but sure schools don't spread it.

How many deaths did we having in the North yesterday, just the 24 was it?

It's a balancing act. And you'll be damned if you do and damned if you don't. My own personal view is that Schools are essential and everything else should be done before they're closed. For example, curfews, closing all takeaway services, enforcement against those people not following the rules.
The outbreaks in our local area are all linked to families meeting up over Christmas. It's as clear as day. 3 or 4 separate households all with positive cases.
But lookit they're now closed have been since well before Christmas, peak infections of 6, 7, 8k per day came from 27th onwards. Schools weren't driving those figures and that the reality.


JimStynes

Schools are open Trailer. Encouraged to stay at home but they're open Monday to Friday as usual.

trailer

Quote from: JimStynes on January 20, 2021, 10:58:46 AM
Schools are open Trailer. Encouraged to stay at home but they're open Monday to Friday as usual.

1 in 10 children are attending school is that right?

JimStynes

Quote from: trailer on January 20, 2021, 11:01:16 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 20, 2021, 10:58:46 AM
Schools are open Trailer. Encouraged to stay at home but they're open Monday to Friday as usual.

1 in 10 children are attending school is that right?

Not sure what the figures are and it would be hard to judge. We have 1/4 of the school in on average but down the road they have very few going in.

mackers

Quote from: JimStynes on January 20, 2021, 10:45:32 AM
It is funny as well that the education end of things seem to be down the list of concerns, a lot of people are pissed off that schools are closed because it messes up their babysitting service.
I think this is an unfair comment. I have three teenagers and the value of school for education, social, and mental health is paramount.  The value that is given to teachers both by them and us as parents has increased over the lockdown.  It is far from a simple babysitting service.  My eldest lost out on a university place due to the clusterfuck with exams last summer.  There is a massive value in the service our teachers offer society.  This brings a responsibility though, something that teaching unions need to bear in mind.
Keep your pecker hard and your powder dry and the world will turn.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

All we have to go on is the last NISRA figures given out, everything else is tainted one way or the other with potential bullshit- I think 5% spread attributed to schools was last update(someone else can check this if they have time as im not 100% on this)

For me schools should be open, but they didn't get the support needed to help deliver safety. Schools are trying their best but the standard of learning given remotely is a poor version of the real thing. Its not level playing field for parents, if like myself you have 2 parents working long hours the wains miss out on hours clocked up for homework, the nursey level is suffering badly as its such a critical time in a child's life-they should be in.
Its not about baby sitting for me anyhow

Itchy

Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 10:46:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 20, 2021, 10:10:09 AM
Unions definitely the reason the schools are closed in the North. I know the pressure they put on certain MLA's who then in turn basically used it as a political football to attack Weir. Same with the 11+. Interesting those same MLA's never once criticised the schools for using the exam which is the crux of the issue.
There is no plan to even open schools even when infections drop. It would appear schools will remain closed until Covid is completely eradicated. Answers on a postcard when that will be. Meanwhile the gap between the have's and have nots gets larger.

I know of one leading Grammar school in Belfast where they'd almost 160 kids and 14 teachers out either from testing positive for Covid or isolating due to being in close contact with someone who'd tested positive in the school environment in the lead up to Christmas.

If it got any worse they were going to have to close unilaterally due to the lack of teachers but sure schools don't spread it.

How many deaths did we having in the North yesterday, just the 24 was it?

Again, these are outliers and this can happen. When it happens it is correct to close the school. However, the important thing to understand is a "school" didnt spread the covid. It was more likely than not caused by the behaviour of a person or people in that building. People are people in all walks of life they will not follow the rules. Its not a reason to shut the world down though.

JimStynes

#3143
Quote from: mackers on January 20, 2021, 11:11:13 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 20, 2021, 10:45:32 AM
It is funny as well that the education end of things seem to be down the list of concerns, a lot of people are pissed off that schools are closed because it messes up their babysitting service.
I think this is an unfair comment. I have three teenagers and the value of school for education, social, and mental health is paramount.  The value that is given to teachers both by them and us as parents has increased over the lockdown.  It is far from a simple babysitting service.  My eldest lost out on a university place due to the clusterfuck with exams last summer.  There is a massive value in the service our teachers offer society.  This brings a responsibility though, something that teaching unions need to bear in mind.

Of course and those things you've mentioned are even more important than education. Children need the social interaction just like adults do. The younger children need all the basic skills they learning from playing together and interacting with other children. But as I said, a lot of people who have been giving off, aren't giving off about those things you listed out or the children's education, they're giving off because it's a pain in the ass minding the kids in the house or not having child care. This just wasn't teaching unions who closed schools, it was the parents of children and the general public as well. People were demanding it due to the spread and increase in C19 numbers. So when numbers are through the roof and hospitals struggling to cope, Itchy wants a large majority of the population mixing on a daily basis in small room and then going home to their families. Maybe the teachers down south have downed tools but we certainly haven't in the North.

Itchy

Quote from: JimStynes on January 20, 2021, 01:37:34 PM
Quote from: mackers on January 20, 2021, 11:11:13 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on January 20, 2021, 10:45:32 AM
It is funny as well that the education end of things seem to be down the list of concerns, a lot of people are pissed off that schools are closed because it messes up their babysitting service.
I think this is an unfair comment. I have three teenagers and the value of school for education, social, and mental health is paramount.  The value that is given to teachers both by them and us as parents has increased over the lockdown.  It is far from a simple babysitting service.  My eldest lost out on a university place due to the clusterfuck with exams last summer.  There is a massive value in the service our teachers offer society.  This brings a responsibility though, something that teaching unions need to bear in mind.

Of course and those things you've mentioned are even more important than education. Children need the social interaction just like adults do. The younger children need all the basic skills they learning from playing together and interacting with other children. But as I said, a lot of people who have been giving off, aren't giving off about those things you listed out or the children's education, they're giving off because it's a pain in the ass minding the kids in the house or not having child care. This just wasn't teaching unions who closed schools, it was the parents of children and the general public as well. People were demanding it due to the spread and increase in C19 numbers. So when numbers are through the roof and hospitals struggling to cope, Itchy wants a large majority of the population mixing on a daily basis in small room and then going home to their families. Maybe the teachers down south have downed tools but we certainly haven't in the North.

And teachers want to use COVID as an excuse to stay at home, bargain for better pay, extend their holidays or whatever you are having and pretend it is because they are concerned and health. They will ignore the health advice from one of the most conservative bodies I have ever come across (NPHET) and claim that it is wrong because it is telling them to go back to work. But don't try to tell me teachers unions are one bit concerned about kids or wider society - not a f**king hope. All about themselves, it always has been even before COVID. They want their terms and conditions and a cherry on top but dont look for performance accountability, no we cant have that.

mackers

Itchy is going over the top in some of the things he's said but one of the main points that I agree with him on is the lack of a proactive response from the teacher's unions to see how best things can work in a classroom.  Remote learning is only marginally better than nothing.  The teacher's unions sound like the DUP in basically saying no to everything.  Engage with the Education Authority ( and it's equivalent in the south) and let's see how we can get more children into the schools whilst minimising the risk to the teaching staff.  Everyone involved has had from March to get things organised but from the outside looking in this has played out like a typical public sector/heavily unionised mess.
Keep your pecker hard and your powder dry and the world will turn.

trailer

Quote from: mackers on January 20, 2021, 02:33:51 PM
Itchy is going over the top in some of the things he's said but one of the main points that I agree with him on is the lack of a proactive response from the teacher's unions to see how best things can work in a classroom.  Remote learning is only marginally better than nothing.  The teacher's unions sound like the DUP in basically saying no to everything.  Engage with the Education Authority ( and it's equivalent in the south) and let's see how we can get more children into the schools whilst minimising the risk to the teaching staff.  Everyone involved has had from March to get things organised but from the outside looking in this has played out like a typical public sector/heavily unionised mess.

Correct.

mrdeeds

Quote from: mackers on January 20, 2021, 02:33:51 PM
Itchy is going over the top in some of the things he's said but one of the main points that I agree with him on is the lack of a proactive response from the teacher's unions to see how best things can work in a classroom.  Remote learning is only marginally better than nothing.  The teacher's unions sound like the DUP in basically saying no to everything.  Engage with the Education Authority ( and it's equivalent in the south) and let's see how we can get more children into the schools whilst minimising the risk to the teaching staff.  Everyone involved has had from March to get things organised but from the outside looking in this has played out like a typical public sector/heavily unionised mess.

For a start teachers want PPE. That's one thing. A proper test and trace system which doesn't exist at the moment. A proper definition of close contacts.

mrdeeds

Quote from: Itchy on January 20, 2021, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 10:46:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 20, 2021, 10:10:09 AM
Unions definitely the reason the schools are closed in the North. I know the pressure they put on certain MLA's who then in turn basically used it as a political football to attack Weir. Same with the 11+. Interesting those same MLA's never once criticised the schools for using the exam which is the crux of the issue.
There is no plan to even open schools even when infections drop. It would appear schools will remain closed until Covid is completely eradicated. Answers on a postcard when that will be. Meanwhile the gap between the have's and have nots gets larger.

I know of one leading Grammar school in Belfast where they'd almost 160 kids and 14 teachers out either from testing positive for Covid or isolating due to being in close contact with someone who'd tested positive in the school environment in the lead up to Christmas.

If it got any worse they were going to have to close unilaterally due to the lack of teachers but sure schools don't spread it.

How many deaths did we having in the North yesterday, just the 24 was it?

Again, these are outliers and this can happen. When it happens it is correct to close the school. However, the important thing to understand is a "school" didnt spread the covid. It was more likely than not caused by the behaviour of a person or people in that building. People are people in all walks of life they will not follow the rules. Its not a reason to shut the world down though.

And yet everywhere is shut down? This reads like guns don't kill, people do. School is third highest source of spread after home and retail setting. I know of a SNA is school in Dublin in their 40s that died of Covid over Christmas with no previous health issues.

mackers

Quote from: mrdeeds on January 20, 2021, 02:56:29 PM
Quote from: mackers on January 20, 2021, 02:33:51 PM
Itchy is going over the top in some of the things he's said but one of the main points that I agree with him on is the lack of a proactive response from the teacher's unions to see how best things can work in a classroom.  Remote learning is only marginally better than nothing.  The teacher's unions sound like the DUP in basically saying no to everything.  Engage with the Education Authority ( and it's equivalent in the south) and let's see how we can get more children into the schools whilst minimising the risk to the teaching staff.  Everyone involved has had from March to get things organised but from the outside looking in this has played out like a typical public sector/heavily unionised mess.

For a start teachers want PPE. That's one thing. A proper test and trace system which doesn't exist at the moment. A proper definition of close contacts.
Doesn't seem unreasonable. Let the unions go to the Education Authority with a proposal on they see that working in the classroom.  If they are turned down by the EA shout it from the rooftops.  Ask the EA for reasons why they can't facilitate these requests if they can't.
Keep your pecker hard and your powder dry and the world will turn.