The Horse racing thread

beer baron · January 24, 2014, 01:40:10 PM

And Barney the boy still hasn't admitted having any involvement i don't think

The man could be getting the blame/praise when he had nothing to do with it

Donnellys Hollow · January 24, 2014, 02:05:50 PM

The handicap system is inherently flawed and always has been. Anyone racing their horse genuinely to win every single handicap they enter probably won't last long at the training game.

I'm not talking about blatantly stopping horses (which does happen frequently), but there are ways and means of not showing the handicapper your full hand and getting your horse weighted out of future handicaps as a result. Mark Prescott in England is a genius at it. He'll run horses with plenty of stamina in their pedigree over sprint distances. They'll be hopelessly outpaced in each race and the handicapper will give them a low rating after their third race. He'll step them up in trip on their fourth run and they will duly bolt up over a distance that is a lot more suitable. Other trainers will run them on unsuitable ground, unsuitable tracks, when they're half fit, haven't been schooled properly etc. Get them on a low mark that can be exploited and then work from there.

At Cheltenham in a few weeks time, most of the field in those handicaps will have been plotted up since the start of the season in October for that one day in March and they will be at least a few pounds ahead of the handicapper. It's why a lot of punters will tend to avoid the handicaps and focus on the quality races run off level weights.

Sea The Stars · January 24, 2014, 05:08:49 PM

Deiseach makes valid points. He's right and I agree with him.

But I suppose when it's of the order of 2.5 million, it deserves some credit too. Pulling a stunt like this I would say appeals to the every day punter because it proves it's possible to win big.

Secondly I would not be a person who'd bet on those kind of weekday races so I'm not going to be affected by the scheming of some trainers. Not to say it doesn't happen on Saturdays too but even then I tend to stick to graded races.

Personally I think the whole thing is a great story. Well done to whoever put it all together. It shows what can be achieved with some decent planning.

bennydorano · January 25, 2014, 12:17:03 AM

The whole game is bent, if you dont start from that premise you shouldn't be a punter imo, any bet i do (especially all-weather betting) i would try & factor in when they are likely to be even trying. From crooked trainers, bent jockies, a betting industry that doesn't even legally have to stand over a bet, regularly get horses pulled from races so they dont have to pay EW.

Well played Barney & hell slap it up the Bookies.

Donnellys Hollow · January 25, 2014, 12:38:46 AM

I wonder how long will the false rail at Dundalk last? They did away with the one at Leopardstown a few years back after a delegation of bookmakers kicked up a fuss about it.

Lecale2 · January 25, 2014, 08:58:51 AM

Quotea betting industry that doesn't even legally have to stand over a bet,

It's a legal contract in Britain.

beer baron · January 25, 2014, 08:36:54 PM

Some shock in the Cleeve hurdle

That World Hurdle looks a minefield at the minute.

Out of the other races in England Red Sherlock looks a nice Novice hurdler and Mullins horse in behind's probably pretty decent too especially if he could jump, Scudamore made a smart move between the 2 final flights not allowing Geraghty take a gap and i think that might've won the race.

Here in Ireland i wasn't overly impressed by anything i seen but i'm planning to go down tomorrow and i'm sure there'll be something to excite me, talk of Hurricane fly having a bruise on his foot during the week, i don't know how serious that is but i presume it's nothing much when Mullins is still running him, i'm hoping Defy Logic puts in another good performance too and i think he could turn the tables on Felix younger with AP onboard.

Anyone know of a jockey called John Winston? He's on a horse called Hold em cowboy who won easily a week or 2 back but has gone up 10lbs for that but this Winston boy takes 7lbs off, if he's any way useful i think Hold em cowboys worth a small e/w bet at about 8/1.

bennydorano · January 25, 2014, 09:46:54 PM

Quote from: Lecale2 on January 25, 2014, 08:58:51 AM
Quotea betting industry that doesn't even legally have to stand over a bet,

It's a legal contract in Britain.

Doubt that very much, but feel free to provide evidence. Most of the big online operations are registered off shore as well, so it would be interesting taking them on in a legal arena. Sure Scotland operates differently from England & Wales in a legal sense too.

Lecale2 · January 26, 2014, 10:51:38 AM

Quote from: bennydorano on January 25, 2014, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 25, 2014, 08:58:51 AM
Quotea betting industry that doesn't even legally have to stand over a bet,

It's a legal contract in Britain.

Doubt that very much, but feel free to provide evidence. Most of the big online operations are registered off shore as well, so it would be interesting taking them on in a legal arena. Sure Scotland operates differently from England & Wales in a legal sense too.

2005 Gambling Act. Covers England Scotland & Wales and off shore.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/contents

bennydorano · January 26, 2014, 12:00:45 PM

Paste the 'betting docket is legally binding' bit, not reading through thon.

Lecale2 · January 26, 2014, 12:20:43 PM

Look at "Part 17 Legality and Enforceability of Gambling Contracts".

bennydorano · January 26, 2014, 12:38:12 PM

Not being a dick, but i cant see how that refers to enforcing a betting slip in law, see mention of Voiding bets which is not the same. I do realise i could be missing something completely mind you.

Lecale2 · January 26, 2014, 01:59:56 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on January 26, 2014, 12:38:12 PM
Not being a dick, but i cant see how that refers to enforcing a betting slip in law, see mention of Voiding bets which is not the same. I do realise i could be missing something completely mind you.

"335 (1) The fact that a contract relates to gambling shall not prevent its enforcement."

The 1966 Act which this Act repealled, stated that gambling contracts could not be enforced in law.

bennydorano · January 26, 2014, 02:17:01 PM

There's no definition of what a contract is, it couldn't be any more vague.

If you type "is a betting docket a legally binding document in GB" you get nothing but bookmaker ads which is no surprise as the industry would probably pay to keep such discussions hidden. The only thing i did come across (& certainly not a legal doc) was all about how bookies are 'honour bound' not legally bound.

Lecale2 · January 26, 2014, 02:22:31 PM

QuoteThere's no definition of what a contract is, it couldn't be any more vague.

The law on contract defines a contract. Each new Act doesn't have to repeat everything ever passed by Parliament! A bookies docket meets all the legal requirements for a contract.

Here's a link to a firm of Solicitors who specialise in gambling law.

http://www.bllaw.co.uk/sectors/leisure,_retail__hospitality/gambling/our_services/enforceability_of_gambling.aspx