Would you be in favour of a second tier?

[RadioGAAGAA]

After being knocked out of their Provincial Championship, Antrim could very well play Tipp in the same tournament Dublin and Kerry play in with a snowballs chance in hell of winning. Why not play each other in a competition they could win?

You completely miss my point.

Who is gonna watch it? Who will care? Tommy Murphy and the "B" championship before it were not very well attended till the final. How will county boards fund it all on the back of marginal gates?

Are players really gonna knock their pan in training and happily give up a weekend travelling the length of the country for an also-ran tournament? Or would they rather go back to their clubs where they (also) have a chance of winning silverware at that level?


Why is this second tier going to work now whereas the last two attempts at it failed miserably?

[trileacman]

Id ask everyone from the smaller counties who are in favour of a 2nd tier to first of all go to their respective county hurling sides and see how a tiered competition actually treats your county. I don't think you should be entitled to proffer the opinion that "things will be better in a tiered championship" until you see how dead, disinterested and deplorable the hurling championship is outside the big 8.

No county outside of Cork, Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Waterford, Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford has a remotely sizeable supporter base. Enter any of the other 24 counties in Ireland and you'll struggle badly to find a punter who could tell you the result of their hurling teams last outing.

This isn't true of football, even amongst the lowliest of football counties. There remains a sizeable interest in these counties despite year in wilderness without success. This board is living proof of that. Look at how many posters we have from div 3 and 4 teams. Many people bitch and moan about how shite their football teams are today. That's a great thing. The only other hurling team outside those 8 counties that anyone gives a f**k about is Offaly and even that is starting to wane. They're now slipping off into the apathetic silence as Antrim have before them.

The competition structure in hurling has cemented the ascendancy that exists withing hurling not weakened it. Now people are looking to artificially create an ascendancy in football by tiering the championship. I disagree completely with this.

It's not fair to criticise suggestions without offering alternative solutions so I'll say this. I acknowledge a disparity between the top 6 counties in football and the following group. I suggest that part of this is down to the structure of the league which punishes developing teams for advancing from division 2 of the league to the punishing nature of division 1 without any chance of acclimatising to the demands of football at the very top. When division 1A and 1B existed through the 2000's there was much less of a gap between the top sides and the rest. I think now more than ever football would prosper from a return to 1A and 1B status as it would give the chasing pack a chance to test themselves against the top sides and do so in a lower stakes environment. I think the the current system of leagues is very unfair on the Kildare, Roscommon and Cavan panels as they become yo-yo teams between the divisions and is particularly detrimental to their development as challengers to the top sides. The cutthroat nature of division 1 has also put counties like Westmeath, Derry and Down into freefall after a difficult division 1 campaign (2014-2016 where they all finished 8th in div 1).

[lenny]

Id ask everyone from the smaller counties who are in favour of a 2nd tier to first of all go to their respective county hurling sides and see how a tiered competition actually treats your county. I don't think you should be entitled to proffer the opinion that "things will be better in a tiered championship" until you see how dead, disinterested and deplorable the hurling championship is outside the big 8.

No county outside of Cork, Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Waterford, Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford has a remotely sizeable supporter base. Enter any of the other 24 counties in Ireland and you'll struggle badly to find a punter who could tell you the result of their hurling teams last outing.

This isn't true of football, even amongst the lowliest of football counties. There remains a sizeable interest in these counties despite year in wilderness without success. This board is living proof of that. Look at how many posters we have from div 3 and 4 teams. Many people bitch and moan about how shite their football teams are today. That's a great thing. The only other hurling team outside those 8 counties that anyone gives a f**k about is Offaly and even that is starting to wane. They're now slipping off into the apathetic silence as Antrim have before them.

The competition structure in hurling has cemented the ascendancy that exists withing hurling not weakened it. Now people are looking to artificially create an ascendancy in football by tiering the championship. I disagree completely with this.

It's not fair to criticise suggestions without offering alternative solutions so I'll say this. I acknowledge a disparity between the top 6 counties in football and the following group. I suggest that part of this is down to the structure of the league which punishes developing teams for advancing from division 2 of the league to the punishing nature of division 1 without any chance of acclimatising to the demands of football at the very top. When division 1A and 1B existed through the 2000's there was much less of a gap between the top sides and the rest. I think now more than ever football would prosper from a return to 1A and 1B status as it would give the chasing pack a chance to test themselves against the top sides and do so in a lower stakes environment. I think the the current system of leagues is very unfair on the Kildare, Roscommon and Cavan panels as they become yo-yo teams between the divisions and is particularly detrimental to their development as challengers to the top sides. The cutthroat nature of division 1 has also put counties like Westmeath, Derry and Down into freefall after a difficult division 1 campaign (2014-2016 where they all finished 8th in div 1).

Did the tiering of the hurling championship mean that the support for the weaker counties dwindled? Maybe my memory is playing tricks but I never remember Donegal or Louth hurlers getting massive crowds in the old system. In fact I know a Donegal hurler who loves the new system and treasures his all ireland medal which he won in croke park in front of a decent crowd for a donegal game.

Football is different because every county has a reasonable level of ability and most have a reasonable following. I would ask the question differently. Players from the weaker counties should go to the intermediate and junior clubs in their county and ask the players there how does it feel to have a good run or win a junior/intermediate championship.

[magpie seanie]

Id ask everyone from the smaller counties who are in favour of a 2nd tier to first of all go to their respective county hurling sides and see how a tiered competition actually treats your county. I don't think you should be entitled to proffer the opinion that "things will be better in a tiered championship" until you see how dead, disinterested and deplorable the hurling championship is outside the big 8.

No county outside of Cork, Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Waterford, Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford has a remotely sizeable supporter base. Enter any of the other 24 counties in Ireland and you'll struggle badly to find a punter who could tell you the result of their hurling teams last outing.

This isn't true of football, even amongst the lowliest of football counties. There remains a sizeable interest in these counties despite year in wilderness without success. This board is living proof of that. Look at how many posters we have from div 3 and 4 teams. Many people bitch and moan about how shite their football teams are today. That's a great thing. The only other hurling team outside those 8 counties that anyone gives a f**k about is Offaly and even that is starting to wane. They're now slipping off into the apathetic silence as Antrim have before them.

The competition structure in hurling has cemented the ascendancy that exists withing hurling not weakened it. Now people are looking to artificially create an ascendancy in football by tiering the championship. I disagree completely with this.

It's not fair to criticise suggestions without offering alternative solutions so I'll say this. I acknowledge a disparity between the top 6 counties in football and the following group. I suggest that part of this is down to the structure of the league which punishes developing teams for advancing from division 2 of the league to the punishing nature of division 1 without any chance of acclimatising to the demands of football at the very top. When division 1A and 1B existed through the 2000's there was much less of a gap between the top sides and the rest. I think now more than ever football would prosper from a return to 1A and 1B status as it would give the chasing pack a chance to test themselves against the top sides and do so in a lower stakes environment. I think the the current system of leagues is very unfair on the Kildare, Roscommon and Cavan panels as they become yo-yo teams between the divisions and is particularly detrimental to their development as challengers to the top sides. The cutthroat nature of division 1 has also put counties like Westmeath, Derry and Down into freefall after a difficult division 1 campaign (2014-2016 where they all finished 8th in div 1).

Good post and I like the idea of going back to Div 1a, 1b, 2a and 2b.

[Maiden1]

Id ask everyone from the smaller counties who are in favour of a 2nd tier to first of all go to their respective county hurling sides and see how a tiered competition actually treats your county. I don't think you should be entitled to proffer the opinion that "things will be better in a tiered championship" until you see how dead, disinterested and deplorable the hurling championship is outside the big 8.

No county outside of Cork, Tipp, Limerick, Clare, Waterford, Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford has a remotely sizeable supporter base. Enter any of the other 24 counties in Ireland and you'll struggle badly to find a punter who could tell you the result of their hurling teams last outing.

This isn't true of football, even amongst the lowliest of football counties. There remains a sizeable interest in these counties despite year in wilderness without success. This board is living proof of that. Look at how many posters we have from div 3 and 4 teams. Many people bitch and moan about how shite their football teams are today. That's a great thing. The only other hurling team outside those 8 counties that anyone gives a f**k about is Offaly and even that is starting to wane. They're now slipping off into the apathetic silence as Antrim have before them.

The competition structure in hurling has cemented the ascendancy that exists withing hurling not weakened it. Now people are looking to artificially create an ascendancy in football by tiering the championship. I disagree completely with this.

It's not fair to criticise suggestions without offering alternative solutions so I'll say this. I acknowledge a disparity between the top 6 counties in football and the following group. I suggest that part of this is down to the structure of the league which punishes developing teams for advancing from division 2 of the league to the punishing nature of division 1 without any chance of acclimatising to the demands of football at the very top. When division 1A and 1B existed through the 2000's there was much less of a gap between the top sides and the rest. I think now more than ever football would prosper from a return to 1A and 1B status as it would give the chasing pack a chance to test themselves against the top sides and do so in a lower stakes environment. I think the the current system of leagues is very unfair on the Kildare, Roscommon and Cavan panels as they become yo-yo teams between the divisions and is particularly detrimental to their development as challengers to the top sides. The cutthroat nature of division 1 has also put counties like Westmeath, Derry and Down into freefall after a difficult division 1 campaign (2014-2016 where they all finished 8th in div 1).

Good post and I like the idea of going back to Div 1a, 1b, 2a and 2b.

I agree I thought it was a really interesting post.  Division 1A and 1B would give teams like Meath, Cavan etc a better chance to stay in the top division longer and bed in a few players and try to establish themselves at that level, then when it comes to the championship they should have a better chance of giving the better teams a tough game.

[Rossfan]

One way of getting Sligo out of D4
Nobody outside the hurling Area of Roscommon ever gave two flying fks about the County hurling team and still don't even though they're going well in the Ring this year.
I still recall the photo of them when they won the Rackard Cup a few years ago- they were one happy looking bunch and it obviously meant a lot to them.

[Keyser soze]

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299622

A sign of things to come for the football.

[sekibanki]

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299622

A sign of things to come for the football.

Five tiers is too many in hurling. The Meagher ends up as a kind of "leftover" tournament of the teams left at the bottom.  They should look to merge it with the Rackard.
Maybe increase the number of teams in the Joe McDonagh if the no. of teams per tier needs evened out, but I don't really see than much difference in a twelve-team Rackard cup and and eight-team one.

[lenny]

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299622

A sign of things to come for the football.

What was the point of that Tyrone Antrim game? Who got any enjoyment or pleasure from that. Pointless for both teams. Time to tier football.

[playwiththewind1st]

https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/299622

A sign of things to come for the football.

What was the point of that Tyrone Antrim game? Who got any enjoyment or pleasure from that. Pointless for both teams. Time to tier football.

Probably to show Tyrone how much work they have to do if they really want to descend to Antrim's level.

[themac_23]

As an Antrim man I'd actually be in favour of a tiered system 100%  that pissed me off tonight, not the hammering as much as the commentators constantly giving Antrim a pat on the head 'ah sure they're a div 4 team, fair play the lads kept trying hard and didn't let their heads drop' its bullsh*t let our players play at a level where they are competitive and can get silverware not just a pat in the back and keep up the good work.

Condense the county season, do away with Mckenna cup etc, play provincial championship before the league over 4/5 week period, hit the league as a straight format no semi finals etc then hit a 2 tiered championship whatever way they want to do champions league format or whatever.

People talk about lack of interest poor crowds etc, 1 idea is play all double headers seeing as the minor games aren't on before senior games, have the B game on before the A game and if they want to boost the numbers to look good on tv etc have an incentive like if you're in for the first game your 2 kids get in free, there are ways but the gaa really needs to do something soon.

[BennyCake]

Themac23, sure the league is effectively meaningless, as in nobody really is bothered if they win it or not. And if the provincial c'ship is a stand-alone Competition, it effectively becomes meaningless too.

Also, the team in the preliminary round. Do you think they'd seriously bust their balls 4 weeks running to win a meaningless Ulster? And kn**ker themselves for the main competition?

[Armagh18]

Jaysus football is a funny old game. Mayo win the league and beat a very good Kerry team in the final, then get beat in c'ship by Roscommon, the same Roscommon team that just about beat Armagh last year in the Qualifiers then proceeded to get thumped in the super 8's and this is the Mayo team (whats left anyway) thats the only team to lay a glove on the Dubs in the championship in years.

[Rudi]

Jaysus football is a funny old game. Mayo win the league and beat a very good Kerry team in the final, then get beat in c'ship by Roscommon, the same Roscommon team that just about beat Armagh last year in the Qualifiers then proceeded to get thumped in the super 8's and this is the Mayo team (whats left anyway) thats the only team to lay a glove on the Dubs in the championship in years.

All of that is true and that's why it's a beautiful game.

[High Fielder]

Tiered football will finally bury the lesser counties. What's going on now is shambolic. There's your choices. Stick or twist. There is no solution in reality. I personally think county boundaries are an archaic way of setting up teams. Too many imbalances to overcome