Would you be in favour of a second tier?

Started by sligoman2, June 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM

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Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
136 (52.7%)
No
104 (40.3%)
Undecided
18 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 258

BennyCake

How much coverage and attention does the minor championship get these days? Taken away as the curtain raiser to the senior, played at odd times and in the back of beyond. Most people don't know who's left until maybe AI semi final day.

That's what will happen to a tier 2 championship. Nobody will see it nor give a shit about it. It's already happening with the back door.

LilySavage

Works perfectly well at club level. If it's done right, it works. Give it a decent name like Intermediate and not B or a Tommy Cooper Cup. Play final at 2pm before the Senior All Ireland. Be relatively easy to make it an attractive competition. Promotion /Relegation aspect would add a lot like it does at club level and in other sports. Reason there is apathy is because many counties know in January there is very little achievable.

Rossfan

Playing with Senior Final.... how many tickets will the competing Counties get? 1500 like the Minors?
If more who among the privileged will lose their tickets?
Agree with point about not calling it the Paddy whatever cup or  a B thing.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Blowitupref

Quote from: twohands!!! on May 08, 2019, 07:57:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on May 08, 2019, 07:51:43 PM
You'd have to admire his optimism if he thinks London have a chance of winning a competition involving Division 3 teams.

Well they did just give Galway a Division 1 team a bit of bother at the weekend.
I'd imagine that he feels that London might have some sort of chance of winning something in a 2nd tier but with the current system there is no chance whatsoever.
Probably learnt more about themselves in that game on Sunday than they would from winning a 2nd tier competition and i can imagine they won't be happy if the opportunity to take on Div 1 sides is taken away from them.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

lenny

Quote from: Blowitupref on May 09, 2019, 12:09:40 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 08, 2019, 07:57:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on May 08, 2019, 07:51:43 PM
You'd have to admire his optimism if he thinks London have a chance of winning a competition involving Division 3 teams.

Well they did just give Galway a Division 1 team a bit of bother at the weekend.
I'd imagine that he feels that London might have some sort of chance of winning something in a 2nd tier but with the current system there is no chance whatsoever.
Probably learnt more about themselves in that game on Sunday than they would from winning a 2nd tier competition and i can imagine they won't be happy if the opportunity to take on Div 1 sides is taken away from them.

lol I'm sure they'll look back in 20 years time and think we learned a lot about ourselves in that game we lost v galway. I'm pretty sure they would prefer to be looking back at a memory of winning an All Ireland Intermediate title in Croke Park which is a realistic goal for them. Learning a lot about themselves is pretty meaningless when more than likely they will only have one or 2 more matches this season. The cureent system is farcical and becoming more so all the time as the gap widens.

Rossfan

They'll still be playing Div 1 sides in Connacht.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Esmarelda

Quote from: lenny on May 09, 2019, 09:27:55 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 09, 2019, 12:09:40 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 08, 2019, 07:57:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on May 08, 2019, 07:51:43 PM
You'd have to admire his optimism if he thinks London have a chance of winning a competition involving Division 3 teams.

Well they did just give Galway a Division 1 team a bit of bother at the weekend.
I'd imagine that he feels that London might have some sort of chance of winning something in a 2nd tier but with the current system there is no chance whatsoever.
Probably learnt more about themselves in that game on Sunday than they would from winning a 2nd tier competition and i can imagine they won't be happy if the opportunity to take on Div 1 sides is taken away from them.

lol I'm sure they'll look back in 20 years time and think we learned a lot about ourselves in that game we lost v galway. I'm pretty sure they would prefer to be looking back at a memory of winning an All Ireland Intermediate title in Croke Park which is a realistic goal for them. Learning a lot about themselves is pretty meaningless when more than likely they will only have one or 2 more matches this season. The cureent system is farcical and becoming more so all the time as the gap widens.
You think London have a realistic chance of winning a title consisting of Division 3 and Division 4 teams?

lenny

Quote from: Esmarelda on May 09, 2019, 09:45:13 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 09, 2019, 09:27:55 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 09, 2019, 12:09:40 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 08, 2019, 07:57:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on May 08, 2019, 07:51:43 PM
You'd have to admire his optimism if he thinks London have a chance of winning a competition involving Division 3 teams.

Well they did just give Galway a Division 1 team a bit of bother at the weekend.
I'd imagine that he feels that London might have some sort of chance of winning something in a 2nd tier but with the current system there is no chance whatsoever.
Probably learnt more about themselves in that game on Sunday than they would from winning a 2nd tier competition and i can imagine they won't be happy if the opportunity to take on Div 1 sides is taken away from them.

lol I'm sure they'll look back in 20 years time and think we learned a lot about ourselves in that game we lost v galway. I'm pretty sure they would prefer to be looking back at a memory of winning an All Ireland Intermediate title in Croke Park which is a realistic goal for them. Learning a lot about themselves is pretty meaningless when more than likely they will only have one or 2 more matches this season. The cureent system is farcical and becoming more so all the time as the gap widens.
You think London have a realistic chance of winning a title consisting of Division 3 and Division 4 teams?

Yes, they're certainly not favourites but it's a realistic goal for them.

Real Talk

The primary issue in this debate hinges on how to take the inequality in the structure and the overriding power of the Provincial Championships out of the equation.  I don't see how this can be resolved .... its not about a 'further tinkering' of the current system .... its about starting with a 32 county group of teams (forget about London and New York) and planning an exit to the Provincial Series in 2022 ... in this scenario currently the Ulster Football Championship and the Munster Hurling Championship are the greatest avenues for financial income to those provinces , so how can that be solved ????

magpie seanie

Quote from: Real Talk on May 09, 2019, 11:27:54 AM
The primary issue in this debate hinges on how to take the inequality in the structure and the overriding power of the Provincial Championships out of the equation.  I don't see how this can be resolved .... its not about a 'further tinkering' of the current system .... its about starting with a 32 county group of teams (forget about London and New York) and planning an exit to the Provincial Series in 2022 ... in this scenario currently the Ulster Football Championship and the Munster Hurling Championship are the greatest avenues for financial income to those provinces , so how can that be solved ????

Including Kilkenny but not teams that have played in the championship for the last few years?

London deserve their place in a football championship. NY not realistic unless there's a 100% guarantee they'll fulfil fixtures over here if they won their first game (don't see that as realistic). Better leave Kilkenny til DJ's youngsters get a bit older!

Zulu

Quote from: Real Talk on May 09, 2019, 11:27:54 AM
The primary issue in this debate hinges on how to take the inequality in the structure and the overriding power of the Provincial Championships out of the equation.  I don't see how this can be resolved .... its not about a 'further tinkering' of the current system .... its about starting with a 32 county group of teams (forget about London and New York) and planning an exit to the Provincial Series in 2022 ... in this scenario currently the Ulster Football Championship and the Munster Hurling Championship are the greatest avenues for financial income to those provinces , so how can that be solved ????

There's no need for hurling and football championships to mirror each other is there? They haven't done so for years so see no reason why hurling can't retain the Munster hurling championship if that's thought to be the best format for the game.

Provincial councils can surely get a proportion of the overall take that would match or better what they get through provincial championships if crowds are good in the new format?

joemamas

Quote from: BennyCake on May 08, 2019, 09:40:59 PM
How much coverage and attention does the minor championship get these days? Taken away as the curtain raiser to the senior, played at odd times and in the back of beyond. Most people don't know who's left until maybe AI semi final day.

That's what will happen to a tier 2 championship. Nobody will see it nor give a shit about it. It's already happening with the back door.

I am in favor of the two tier Championship, with promotion for finalists if that's what it takes.

I believe it would have more relevance if the "B" semi-finals and final were played before the Senior "A'. The powers to be need to get their heads around this.

The GAA in general do not do a good marketing job. They would have to introduce this as part of a broader plan to truly promote Gaelic football in weaker counties. I.E add multiple full time coach's and if they are not utilized by the county, then those counties should be called out publicly on it. God knows the Croke Park and the provincial councils could help monitor this.

It will no doubt cost a lot of money, but if they are really serious about closing the gap over a decade or more, then time to bite the bullet.

Annual reality check will come again by the end of June when round 1 and 2 of Qualifiers have the usual blowouts.

seafoid

Quote from: joemamas on May 09, 2019, 01:44:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 08, 2019, 09:40:59 PM
How much coverage and attention does the minor championship get these days? Taken away as the curtain raiser to the senior, played at odd times and in the back of beyond. Most people don't know who's left until maybe AI semi final day.

That's what will happen to a tier 2 championship. Nobody will see it nor give a shit about it. It's already happening with the back door.

I am in favor of the two tier Championship, with promotion for finalists if that's what it takes.

I believe it would have more relevance if the "B" semi-finals and final were played before the Senior "A'. The powers to be need to get their heads around this.

The GAA in general do not do a good marketing job. They would have to introduce this as part of a broader plan to truly promote Gaelic football in weaker counties. I.E add multiple full time coach's and if they are not utilized by the county, then those counties should be called out publicly on it. God knows the Croke Park and the provincial councils could help monitor this.

It will no doubt cost a lot of money, but if they are really serious about closing the gap over a decade or more, then time to bite the bullet.

Annual reality check will come again by the end of June when round 1 and 2 of Qualifiers have the usual blowouts.
B would have to be before A in order to get the top 2 or whatever to qualify
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

joemamas

Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2019, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: joemamas on May 09, 2019, 01:44:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 08, 2019, 09:40:59 PM
How much coverage and attention does the minor championship get these days? Taken away as the curtain raiser to the senior, played at odd times and in the back of beyond. Most people don't know who's left until maybe AI semi final day.

That's what will happen to a tier 2 championship. Nobody will see it nor give a shit about it. It's already happening with the back door.

I am in favor of the two tier Championship, with promotion for finalists if that's what it takes.

I believe it would have more relevance if the "B" semi-finals and final were played before the Senior "A'. The powers to be need to get their heads around this.

The GAA in general do not do a good marketing job. They would have to introduce this as part of a broader plan to truly promote Gaelic football in weaker counties. I.E add multiple full time coach's and if they are not utilized by the county, then those counties should be called out publicly on it. God knows the Croke Park and the provincial councils could help monitor this.

It will no doubt cost a lot of money, but if they are really serious about closing the gap over a decade or more, then time to bite the bullet.

Annual reality check will come again by the end of June when round 1 and 2 of Qualifiers have the usual blowouts.
B would have to be before A in order to get the top 2 or whatever to qualify

Fair point, I was actually thinking of promotion for the following year.
In reality, even if they did qualify for the A in the first year, it is unlikely (not impossible) that a Div 3 or Div 4 will qualify for semis in first year up, especially given the round robin aspects of qualifiers.

Look at how much interest it created in Leitrim this year, when they finally made a breakthrough, that has only got to be good for developing 10-12 year gaelic footballers.
This is truly a multi-step, multi multi year process.


.

Esmarelda

Quote from: joemamas on May 09, 2019, 02:15:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 09, 2019, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: joemamas on May 09, 2019, 01:44:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 08, 2019, 09:40:59 PM
How much coverage and attention does the minor championship get these days? Taken away as the curtain raiser to the senior, played at odd times and in the back of beyond. Most people don't know who's left until maybe AI semi final day.

That's what will happen to a tier 2 championship. Nobody will see it nor give a shit about it. It's already happening with the back door.

I am in favor of the two tier Championship, with promotion for finalists if that's what it takes.

I believe it would have more relevance if the "B" semi-finals and final were played before the Senior "A'. The powers to be need to get their heads around this.

The GAA in general do not do a good marketing job. They would have to introduce this as part of a broader plan to truly promote Gaelic football in weaker counties. I.E add multiple full time coach's and if they are not utilized by the county, then those counties should be called out publicly on it. God knows the Croke Park and the provincial councils could help monitor this.

It will no doubt cost a lot of money, but if they are really serious about closing the gap over a decade or more, then time to bite the bullet.

Annual reality check will come again by the end of June when round 1 and 2 of Qualifiers have the usual blowouts.
B would have to be before A in order to get the top 2 or whatever to qualify

Fair point, I was actually thinking of promotion for the following year.
In reality, even if they did qualify for the A in the first year, it is unlikely (not impossible) that a Div 3 or Div 4 will qualify for semis in first year up, especially given the round robin aspects of qualifiers.

Look at how much interest it created in Leitrim this year, when they finally made a breakthrough, that has only got to be good for developing 10-12 year gaelic footballers.
This is truly a multi-step, multi multi year process.


.
Imagine if they beat Roscommon.