Would you be in favour of a second tier?

Started by sligoman2, June 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM

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Would you be in favour of an alternative championship for Div 3 and 4 with winners and runners up rejoining the other championship.

Yes
136 (52.7%)
No
104 (40.3%)
Undecided
18 (7%)

Total Members Voted: 258

Zulu

The GAA don't want to do that. I'm personally not in favour of removing any county from the All Ireland but we do need to do something about our competitions.

omaghjoe

After I investigated the Kerry Senior Championship Ive become a great fan, I genuinally think its the reason that they are so sucessful as players from small clubs have a chance to play on an equal footing with the big clubs and it also means the standard of the championship is higher

Anyway could we apply this model to the SFC??

I was thinkin  have the 2nd Tier championship minus the top 8 or 10 and replace the lower leagues with that championship. Obiviously it would still be some sorta league format as losing R1 teams end up with 1 game
Then have the provincials as usual.
Then pool the 2nd Tier teams into regional sides to give them a crack at the SFC agin the top teams.

Lone Shark

I've a real bee in my bonnet when it comes to people saying things like how "it would need to be marketed properly..."

All across Ireland and the world there are sports that don't get bums on seats, and they all perceive that a lack of marketing is the issue. League of Ireland? Check. Ladies football? Check. Christy Ring? Check.

It's all very well to say that two days ago, there was a gap there, and that RTE could have showed a lower tier game. But what about the previous week? Would the armchair pundits, up to and including a lot of people on here, been happy that either Donegal vs Tyrone or Cork vs Waterford went untelevised so that a game like the Christy Ring final could be shown instead?

Christ the same Joe Brolly thinks it's a disgrace that there are GAA games on Sky, even though there's 40-odd games on terrestrial TV over the summer now. But think about it. Is it a real surprise that TV pundits, who depend on TV punditry for gigs, want a system where there are more big games between the big counties, so more games that "need" to be televised, and thus more punditry gigs on the go?


Moreover, you don't have to go far in Kerry or Dublin to find an ex-player who thinks a B championship is the answer. However I'll start to believe that it's the way to go when a player who would be playing in it comes out and says that he'd have an extra spring in his step if they went that road. If a lad I know to be a solid, committed player who loves his county - I'll give the example of Brian Darby for Offaly, who some of ye will know from TG4's seo spóirt - if he comes out and says that he'd prefer to represent Offaly in a competition like that, I'll listen. If some ould lads from Kerry tell him that's where he should be locked away into, that's not going to twist my arm. 

Hound

As the capital, Dublin should not be fixed in Leinster. Creates too much of an imbalance in what is already the largest province. Rotate them among all four provinces.

The Boy Wonder

Quote from: Hound on June 27, 2017, 07:15:44 AM
As the capital, Dublin should not be fixed in Leinster. Creates too much of an imbalance in what is already the largest province. Rotate them among all four provinces.

Better still...
Dublin NE - Ulster
Dublin NW - Connacht
Dublin SW - Munster
Dublin SE - Leinster

Rossfan

Quote from: trileacman on June 27, 2017, 12:32:38 AM
The only team handing out drubbings are the the dubs.
Roscommon 2-23 Leitrim 1-9.

How many Qualifier games have Leitrim won?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

sligoman2

Quote from: Zulu on June 27, 2017, 01:06:55 AM
The GAA don't want to do that. I'm personally not in favour of removing any county from the All Ireland but we do need to do something about our competitions.
Remember, nobody is being removed from the Championship. What I said was if a div 3 or 4 team is beaten in the championship before a certain date, then they would simply go through a backdoor system that only includes other div 3 and 4 teams, with the winners and runners up rejoining the other competition at the quarter final stage.

Change comes slow to the gaa, I remember people up in arms when the back door was introduced. I'm simply proposing that the back door should be based on divisional status - this imo achieves 3 things.
1) more competitive back door games for both tiers
2) easier passage to the later rounds for 2 weaker teams
3) a fair chance to win some silverware in a competition
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: trileacman on June 27, 2017, 12:32:38 AM
The only team handing out drubbings are the the dubs. They're the elephant in the room and we need to stop pumping money into them and develop the weaker counties. Those w**ks in the gaa and media are only interested in hanging the weaker counties out to dry and letting the dubs away with their unfair advantage. Tyrone were shite enough 2-3 years ago and are now the 3rd best team in the land. Donegal came from being Ulster whipping boys to serial contenders in the modern era.

Dublin are the problem and leaving the championship uncompetitive. Tie them up  and Kerry Tyrone Donegal and mayo are f**k all ahead of the chasing pack.

Part of the issue is that the Dubs continue to have home advantage.  they weren't just as hot when taken out of Dublin to play Carlow.  Surely Westmeath deserved an opportunity to play Dublin in the semi final in a major ground in Leinster but not Croke Park that should be reserved for provincial finals and AI quarter finals onwards?

In a smaller stadium with the home crowd closer to the play, it would at least create some levelling for other Leinster teams.

Esmarelda

Quote from: sligoman2 on June 27, 2017, 11:08:15 AM
Quote from: Zulu on June 27, 2017, 01:06:55 AM
The GAA don't want to do that. I'm personally not in favour of removing any county from the All Ireland but we do need to do something about our competitions.
Remember, nobody is being removed from the Championship. What I said was if a div 3 or 4 team is beaten in the championship before a certain date, then they would simply go through a backdoor system that only includes other div 3 and 4 teams, with the winners and runners up rejoining the other competition at the quarter final stage.

Change comes slow to the gaa, I remember people up in arms when the back door was introduced. I'm simply proposing that the back door should be based on divisional status - this imo achieves 3 things.
1) more competitive back door games for both tiers
2) easier passage to the later rounds for 2 weaker teams
3) a fair chance to win some silverware in a competition
I assume under your proposal that losing Division 1 and 2 teams would enter another back door system? You're going to run into the issue of odd numbers of teams in each section. Also, a lowly Division 2 team will wonder why they have a harder route through the back door than a competitive Division 3 team.

sligoman2

Quote from: Esmarelda on June 27, 2017, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: sligoman2 on June 27, 2017, 11:08:15 AM
Quote from: Zulu on June 27, 2017, 01:06:55 AM
The GAA don't want to do that. I'm personally not in favour of removing any county from the All Ireland but we do need to do something about our competitions.
Remember, nobody is being removed from the Championship. What I said was if a div 3 or 4 team is beaten in the championship before a certain date, then they would simply go through a backdoor system that only includes other div 3 and 4 teams, with the winners and runners up rejoining the other competition at the quarter final stage.

Change comes slow to the gaa, I remember people up in arms when the back door was introduced. I'm simply proposing that the back door should be based on divisional status - this imo achieves 3 things.
1) more competitive back door games for both tiers
2) easier passage to the later rounds for 2 weaker teams
3) a fair chance to win some silverware in a competition
I assume under your proposal that losing Division 1 and 2 teams would enter another back door system? You're going to run into the issue of odd numbers of teams in each section. Also, a lowly Division 2 team will wonder why they have a harder route through the back door than a competitive Division 3 team.
Yes I am proposing that Div 1 and 2 teams have a seperate back door system and yes it would be tougher for them and so it should be.  Div 1 and 2 are the best teams (in theory) and should play the best teams.  Take your point about uneven teams but that's an easy fix with giving teams a bye etc..
I don't see this proposal prolonging the championship, just improving it by having more competitive games.
I used to be indecisive but now I'm not too sure.

trileacman

Quote from: Zulu on June 27, 2017, 01:02:14 AM
That'd be the Dubs, beaten by Kerry in the league final and one point winners after a replay against Mayo in last year's All Ireland? You really think the GAA want a dominant Dublin and to hinder weaker teams?

Yeah that'd be the same Dublin who are back to back ai champions having won 4 of the last 6 all Irelands and who've won 12 of the last 13 leinsters, currently on 7 in a row. Take the blinkers off lad.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

Esmarelda

Quote from: sligoman2 on June 27, 2017, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 27, 2017, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: sligoman2 on June 27, 2017, 11:08:15 AM
Quote from: Zulu on June 27, 2017, 01:06:55 AM
The GAA don't want to do that. I'm personally not in favour of removing any county from the All Ireland but we do need to do something about our competitions.
Remember, nobody is being removed from the Championship. What I said was if a div 3 or 4 team is beaten in the championship before a certain date, then they would simply go through a backdoor system that only includes other div 3 and 4 teams, with the winners and runners up rejoining the other competition at the quarter final stage.

Change comes slow to the gaa, I remember people up in arms when the back door was introduced. I'm simply proposing that the back door should be based on divisional status - this imo achieves 3 things.
1) more competitive back door games for both tiers
2) easier passage to the later rounds for 2 weaker teams
3) a fair chance to win some silverware in a competition
I assume under your proposal that losing Division 1 and 2 teams would enter another back door system? You're going to run into the issue of odd numbers of teams in each section. Also, a lowly Division 2 team will wonder why they have a harder route through the back door than a competitive Division 3 team.
Yes I am proposing that Div 1 and 2 teams have a seperate back door system and yes it would be tougher for them and so it should be. Div 1 and 2 are the best teams (in theory) and should play the best teams.  Take your point about uneven teams but that's an easy fix with giving teams a bye etc..
I don't see this proposal prolonging the championship, just improving it by having more competitive games.
Why should the bottom team in Division 2 be guaranteed to play a team better than them whilst the top team in Division 3 be guaranteed the opposite?

Your idea isn't bad on the surface so I don't mean to be critical. Just pointing out potential flaws that would be brought up.

Maroon Manc

I'd like to know what the counties who tend to occupy division 4 county boards think.  Do the likes of Leitrim, Carlow, Antrim, Waterford & Wicklow want the extra games?

Fuzzman

I think what we all learned from RTE's interview with 10 managers shown on Sunday night was that non of them want to be viewed as second rate teams and want to be in with a chance of playing against the big boys at some stage.

However, I think most of us (even the Dubs) enjoy the season when we get a decent run of games where we win a few and have excitement, hope, joy, fear, incident and out for a few jars and a meal to discuss the day. Many of us know we're not gonna win Sam but we can still enjoy the summer and that happens mainly when we play teams around the same level as us.
Whilst it's nice to win your province, I love the idea of going to an away venue for a Sat night game and staying the night and meeting up with old friends etc.

The loyalty to the provincials is a huge stumbling block for most people as they feel they are breaking tradition if they walk away from that set up.

The most simpliest solutuon would seem to be that the top 2 divisions play off against each other and the bottom 2 divisions do the same. It would mean teams from lower divisions still have a chance to get to the 1/4 finals (super 8s) whilst playing competive games with teams at similar levels. As we saw at the weekend Carlow v London was a good game as were a few others qualifiers.



From the Bunker

Quote from: Hound on June 27, 2017, 07:15:44 AM
As the capital, Dublin should not be fixed in Leinster. Creates too much of an imbalance in what is already the largest province. Rotate them among all four provinces.

Why should the Dubs get the chance to win every Province? Stupid idea! You are just adding to making Dublin an even more specially treated county. I know the sun shines out of yer arses these days but don't think the rest of us mere mortal are here to accommodate your growing  boredom.