FAI...New Manager Hunt continues

[From the Bunker]

Westwood, Coleman, O'Shea, O'Dea, Wilson, Brady, Andrews, McCarthy, McGeady, Keane, Walters

Surely not?  I simply cannot understand that decision.  Shocking.

Trap is old school, and know's two inexperienced changes in Wilson and Brady is the max he can make. O'Dea (for the moment) has a bit of experience. We are full of holes, but these can only be mended one at a time. Don't get me wrong O'Dea is not up to it, but we'll have to make do until Dunne and St. Ledger come back.

[Myles Na G.]

Ireland could do better  if McCarthy, Gibson and a few others were available but not an awful lot better.

See I don't even know if we would do any better.

Some people above are ranting about EPL players being left out. Except the players being left out are from lower half EPL teams. There's no CL players missing out, not even any Europa League players missing out. Just average players. And my experience of team sport is that average players with smaller egos are more effective than average players with big egos. This doesn't mean by the way the Houlahan and Wilson have problematic egos, but Gibson definitely has.

Until a handful of better players come along, what we've seen in the last 6 months is as good as it'll get. Trap really isn't that important in this equation.

Lower half of the EPL is better than the leagues below than in England or playing in flippin Canada. If the guys missing out are "just average players" how would you label the guys who play at lower levels than them? The ego argument is a red herring - a good manager will get the best out of the most egotistical of players. Are you really suggesting that all our players are crap so we should pick the ones who know they are crap rather than the guys who think they're not? Is the level they play at it purely random and not indicative of ability? C'mon Wobbler, that doesn't stack up.

Lads - international football is not that great, we're not talking Champions League here. England are 5th very limited but very high in the world rankings. The fact that (in general, Friday being and exception) our players really care about representing our country gives us an advantage that we need to capitalise on.

Seanie I get what you're saying and the lads playing football at EPL level should normally be te better ones. But things like Wolves getting relegated can change a player's worth all too quickly by using this method.

Where I'm coming from is maybe simpler. Keith Andrews is an awful footballer. But he wants to play at a higher level than what he does, so when he plays for Ireland, it's his shop window. He will do what he's told and will die trying. He doesn't regard his teammates or manager as a mill around his neck, he just plays ball. Gibson, on the other hand, plays football like a man who looks down on those around him, when he has done very little in his career to qualify such a thought. Personally I'd prefer to watch the former represent my country.


Let's not forget that Germany whalloped both England and Argentina in the most recent World Cup. People can complain about managers all they like (Maradona and Capello took some lampooning), but Germany can't just be lucky to come up against a series of badly managed teams. Nope. They're just better, and when they click, an awful lot better.

Unfair on Gibson. He spat the dummy out because he feels he wasn't being given a fair shake. Wrong to do so, but understandable too.

[Leo]

Ireland could do better  if McCarthy, Gibson and a few others were available but not an awful lot better.

See I don't even know if we would do any better.

Some people above are ranting about EPL players being left out. Except the players being left out are from lower half EPL teams. There's no CL players missing out, not even any Europa League players missing out. Just average players. And my experience of team sport is that average players with smaller egos are more effective than average players with big egos. This doesn't mean by the way the Houlahan and Wilson have problematic egos, but Gibson definitely has.

Until a handful of better players come along, what we've seen in the last 6 months is as good as it'll get. Trap really isn't that important in this equation.

Hoolahan is not a regular at Norwich, yet he is our saviour!!
It wqas Coleman (not a regular at Evereton) until he was exposed the other night.
We want to bring back Stephen Reid (who retired himslf years ago!!), Stephen Ireland (who has no interest and is a limted player anyway), And Reid (lol!!!), Duff (wisely, retired)  - somewhere along the line we have to realise how limited our current players are - the worst Irish pick I hae seen in 50 years of following football.
The solution is to bring in all Irish players who are currently regulars with Man Utd., Man City, Chelsea & Arsenal    - and ignore the rest ..... what a team that would be.
Bring back Terry Mancini?

[magpie seanie]

Westwood, Coleman, O'Shea, O'Dea, Wilson, Brady, Andrews, McCarthy, McGeady, Keane, Walters

Surely not?  I simply cannot understand that decision.  Shocking.

Trap is old school, and know's two inexperienced changes in Wilson and Brady is the max he can make. O'Dea (for the moment) has a bit of experience. We are full of holes, but these can only be mended one at a time. Don't get me wrong O'Dea is not up to it, but we'll have to make do until Dunne and St. Ledger come back.

I don't accept that at all. Clarke clearly should be starting. How anyone could think otherwise baffles me. This indulging or understanding Trapp's methods has to stop. He is getting a kings ransom and is stunting the development of potentially decent young players by picking poor players ahead of them.

[From the Bunker]

Westwood, Coleman, O’Shea, O’Dea, Wilson, Brady, Andrews, McCarthy, McGeady, Keane, Walters

Surely not?  I simply cannot understand that decision.  Shocking.

Trap is old school, and know's two inexperienced changes in Wilson and Brady is the max he can make. O'Dea (for the moment) has a bit of experience. We are full of holes, but these can only be mended one at a time. Don't get me wrong O'Dea is not up to it, but we'll have to make do until Dunne and St. Ledger come back.

I don't accept that at all. Clarke clearly should be starting. How anyone could think otherwise baffles me. This indulging or understanding Trapp's methods has to stop. He is getting a kings ransom and is stunting the development of potentially decent young players by picking poor players ahead of them.

Not standing up for Trapp. Just putting logic behind the madness. There is only so much chopping a changing a manager can do, and i think he is trying to incrementally change things.

[Crete Boom]

Ireland could do better  if McCarthy, Gibson and a few others were available but not an awful lot better.

See I don't even know if we would do any better.

Some people above are ranting about EPL players being left out. Except the players being left out are from lower half EPL teams. There's no CL players missing out, not even any Europa League players missing out. Just average players. And my experience of team sport is that average players with smaller egos are more effective than average players with big egos. This doesn't mean by the way the Houlahan and Wilson have problematic egos, but Gibson definitely has.

Until a handful of better players come along, what we've seen in the last 6 months is as good as it'll get. Trap really isn't that important in this equation.

Yeah I agree with the general thrust of what you are saying but I don't hear a lot of Irish Fans saying we should be beating the likes of Germany/Spain/Portugal on a regular basis. Yeah most of the players are playing in teams outside of the champions league English clubs but you can't honestly argue that O'Dea playing for what is considered a weak MLS club is better than a Clark or Stephen Kelly,that Paul Green is better than Darren Gibson or Marc Wilson or that Paul McShane was ahead of Coleman for the Euros! Also it wasn't that we lost to Germany it was the manner of the loss. The Faroes managed to put up a stronger fight at home to Germany so can we not expect a manger of Traps ability to get our average players to compete to the level of the Faroes?

Hoolahan is not a regular at Norwich, yet he is our saviour!!
It wqas Coleman (not a regular at Evereton) until he was exposed the other night.
We want to bring back Stephen Reid (who retired himslf years ago!!), Stephen Ireland (who has no interest and is a limted player anyway), And Reid (lol!!!), Duff (wisely, retired)  - somewhere along the line we have to realise how limited our current players are - the worst Irish pick I hae seen in 50 years of following football.
The solution is to bring in all Irish players who are currently regulars with Man Utd., Man City, Chelsea & Arsenal    - and ignore the rest ..... what a team that would be.
Bring back Terry Mancini?

Actually Holahan is a regular at Norwich and starts most games they go out with their attacking 4-3-3 formation but some away games they revert to a 4-5-1 for which he is left out but he is a regular and I think might even have been fans player of the year last year! Coleman was a definite starter on the right side of midfield two years ago when he first broke into the Everton team. The following season was saw him in and out of the team due to injuries but this season since regaining full fitness he has been a fixture a right back and the whole Irish team was exposed last night so to pick him out is harsh. Actually I think Giles said he thought he played decent. I haven't heard too many people clammering for Stephen Ireland to be honest and Andy Reid , most people I know agree with Trap on his expulsion.
  What I'm trying to get at is most of the ardent Trap supporters are saying that all our players are crap and he's doing his best but this is inaccurate and untrue. Even in the last piece I quoted above you can see this and while we will have a tough time trying to beat the top teams with our current crop of players we should be able to compete better than losing 6-1 at home and in our current group we should make a run at second place. I by the way was a Trap man at the start and I do acknowledge the great feet of getting us to the euros but he has fallen out with way too many players over a seemingly total lack of communication and it's obvious he lost the dressing room during the euros so it 's time for a change.

P.S Trap supporters please try and get your facts right about the players and don't trot out the old worst team in 50 years stuff it's fairly childish

[rodney trotter]

Westwood, Coleman, O'Shea, O'Dea, Wilson, Brady, Andrews, McCarthy, McGeady, Keane, Walters

Surely not?  I simply cannot understand that decision.  Shocking.

Trap is old school, and know's two inexperienced changes in Wilson and Brady is the max he can make. O'Dea (for the moment) has a bit of experience. We are full of holes, but these can only be mended one at a time. Don't get me wrong O'Dea is not up to it, but we'll have to make do until Dunne and St. Ledger come back.

Sean St Ledger won't make drastic improvements either, He was starting evey game in the Euro's and was out of his depth. He has always played his football in the Championship, as that is his level, not a Premier League player like Dunne. Ciaran Clarke is the future

[thewobbler]

Crete Boom, I don't think there's such a thing as a Trap supporter in the whole of Ireland - and I'm certainly not one.

But Ireland's current malaise is not even a malaise; Germany are on a different level to us these days and when they come together, we have no chance, even with 11 men behind the ball.

But after tonight we will be in joint second place again, and second place is the best we would ever achieve in this group.  The only games that actually matter in qualifying are those against Sweden and Austria, and I'd rather we played those with a settled team and formation than with something plucked out of the sky Championship manager style.

[thewobbler]

Ciaran Clarke is the future

Based on playing a dozen games for a rubbish Aston Villa side?

I really hope I'm wrong, but at this stage he is no more the future than Gary Doherty was 10 years ago, or Paul McShane was 5 years ago.

[rodney trotter]

Ciaran Clarke is the future

Based on playing a dozen games for a rubbish Aston Villa side?

I really hope I'm wrong, but at this stage he is no more the future than Gary Doherty was 10 years ago, or Paul McShane was 5 years ago.

No Wobbler, based on Clarke having some talent. Doherty was a shocking player, and as for Paul McShane.....

[thewobbler]

Talent is a subjective gauge.

When Doherty first broke into the Spurs team (after a £1m transfer) he was a decent player. But a leg break or two later he was too slow and seemingly spent the rest of his career making howling mistakes.

McShane was on United's books as a youngster.

These guys must have been seen as talented at one stage.

Ciaran Clark, I'll admit I've only seen a few times (including versus Spurs a fortnight ago). I hope he's the future, but I haven't seen this talent shine through yet.

[Dinny Breen]

[Crete Boom]

Crete Boom, I don't think there's such a thing as a Trap supporter in the whole of Ireland - and I'm certainly not one.

But Ireland's current malaise is not even a malaise; Germany are on a different level to us these days and when they come together, we have no chance, even with 11 men behind the ball.

But after tonight we will be in joint second place again, and second place is the best we would ever achieve in this group.  The only games that actually matter in qualifying are those against Sweden and Austria, and I'd rather we played those with a settled team and formation than with something plucked out of the sky Championship manager style.

Again Wobbler I agree with you totally about the abilities of this current Irish crop of players but I just don't think Trap is capable of getting the best out of these players anymore. I do think he is getting some selections hugely wrong as in O'Dea instead of Clark and clearly playing Simon Cox out of position is unfair both to Cox and the fans notwithstanding the fact Cox would struggle to get in the team in his proper position of striker. Also Trap still can't fully grasp the need for a middle three which is a must for Ireland. Also he's too loyal to certain players like McGeady who is clearly not on form for us at the moment and Stephen Ward was struggling for a long time even before the euros. Also he doesn't seem to be brave enough to drop Robbie ( which is a big call given he's our greatest ever striker) for the betterment of the whole team so we can employ a 5 man midfield. Also for such a conservative manager why didn't he pick Stephen Kelly at right back and Coleman on the right side of midfield with McGeady on the left against Germany when we knew we would be on the defensive for most of the game? These are all things we should expect from a top class international manger and this is why I think we need to make a change after the Faroes match regardless of the result! While they players might be average a manger who doesn't seem to be able to pick these average players in the right positions in a system that suits them is an even bigger obstacle than their limited talent!

[rodney trotter]

Talent is a subjective gauge.

When Doherty first broke into the Spurs team (after a £1m transfer) he was a decent player. But a leg break or two later he was too slow and seemingly spent the rest of his career making howling mistakes.

McShane was on United's books as a youngster.

These guys must have been seen as talented at one stage.

Ciaran Clark, I'll admit I've only seen a few times (including versus Spurs a fortnight ago). I hope he's the future, but I haven't seen this talent shine through yet.

[/b]


He hasn't been getting the chance that the problem. Darren O Dea playing in Toronto with a team that is struggling, losing 10 games in a row, gets starting ahead of him.

Clarke has been one of Villa's better players in the last few games, and they are a very average team.

[Asal Mor]

Interesting stats there Dinny. I'm surprised at how good Kerr looks on paper. Only 4 losses. I always had it in my mind that the McCarthy years were much better than Kerr's but those stats would strongly suggest differently.