Arlene's bigotry shines through

[Insane Bolt]

Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.

His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.

Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.

Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.

The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.

So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.

[johnnycool]

Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.

His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.

Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.

Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.

The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.

So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.

Seamus was right, but if he's bitter then that's a sad reflection on him as for all the issues with power sharing, Stormont, RHI and Brexit its certainly a better place to bring up kids than the place I grew up in.

The selfless vision and courage of John Hume allowed that to happen.

The questions the SDLP should be asking of themselves is why now with relative peace are Sinn Féin still walloping them in the poles on a regular basis.

[6th sam]

Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.

His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.

Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.

Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.

The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.

So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.

Seamus was right, but if he's bitter then that's a sad reflection on him as for all the issues with power sharing, Stormont, RHI and Brexit its certainly a better place to bring up kids than the place I grew up in.

The selfless vision and courage of John Hume allowed that to happen.

The questions the SDLP should be asking of themselves is why now with relative peace are Sinn Féin still walloping them in the poles on a regular basis.

This is the difficulty for the SDLP, few can argue that they have made a massive contribution over several years, and most of the foreward thinking changes have the fingerprints of SDLP architects all over them : fair employment law and GFA being just two of these. In many ways they have been the true leaders of conflict resolution here, and under John Hume made the ultimate political sacrifice of risking electoral loss and their very existence , in the interests of peace. Seamus Mallon on the other hand has been exposed as party political minnow defined by his palpable antagonism to SF.  John Hume was a true giant, with his humanist and altruistic values overriding party political or even patriotic concerns. His was the correct decision , but has left a party struggling for its identity, as to put it very simply , it represented non-violent republicanism during the conflict , vigorously but constitutionally fighting for rights. Now that the conflict is over,  it appears to be fighting a battle it can't win against Sinn Féin. Most "nationalist" voters see little difference between the policies of SF and SDLP , but will usually favour SF as their history of standing up to Britain for over 100 years is more attractive to most "nationalist" voters. This is something the SDLP needs to reflect on. They have always espoused the equality and respect agenda now claimed by Sinn Féin. They do their founders and activists no favours by actually diluting the strength of this agenda, by being distracted in waging a war against SF which they can never win. Regrettably some in their ranks continue to treat SF as the "great unwashed", citing their violent past. Though many would argue that this antagonism has more to do with classist snobbery.
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past. Most of the leaders in the republic over the past 100 years came directly or indirectly from a violent background. Perhaps it was easier , because both FF and FG had blood on their hands from previous conflict and therefore neither could really past judgement on each  other. Also , They were often too busy dealing with "real" issues like the economy etc.
I think the SDLP need to get to the stage where , instead of basking in their past political contribution and their clean hands, they should get their architects to work on building a new Ireland and focus on the equality and respect agenda which unites 85% of this island, rather than petty squabbling and antagonism towards a much stronger SF who will be willing partners in such an equality strategy.

SDLP should remember that the real enemy here, and the reason for ongoing conflict and lack of progress are the DUP. They need to be brave enough to sideline these dinosaurs, for once and for all , and see where it takes us. They can only do it along with their equality partners eg SF , Alliance etc, and it doesn't serve the SDLP well to distract focus from the DUP by concentrating on SF.
Personally I'm fed up of living in a political backwater, led by bedgrudging or even bullying unionism. We are on the threshold of bringing this dominance to an end, and replacing it with equality and respect for all. The  SDLP have the ability and kudos within their ranks to be potential leaders in that process, but they can't do it by trying to paint DUP and SF as the joint enemy !

[Rossfan]

Obvious starting place is the next Westminster Election by not splitting the Nationalist vote in the likes of North and South Belfast.
Also tacitly supporting Alliance in Constituencies where there's a small Nationalist population.

[johnnycool]

Obvious starting place is the next Westminster Election by not splitting the Nationalist vote in the likes of North and South Belfast.
Also tacitly supporting Alliance in Constituencies where there's a small Nationalist population.

The SDLP are more concerned about how they are seen in the media as they regularly trot out the line of not wanting these marginals to become a sectarian head count.

Doesn't seem to bother the DUP and UUP when the need arises.

[Rossfan]

They should concentrate on the Electorate.
How many votes have the media?

[Insane Bolt]

Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.

His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.

Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.

Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.

The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.

So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.

Seamus was right, but if he's bitter then that's a sad reflection on him as for all the issues with power sharing, Stormont, RHI and Brexit its certainly a better place to bring up kids than the place I grew up in.

The selfless vision and courage of John Hume allowed that to happen.

The questions the SDLP should be asking of themselves is why now with relative peace are Sinn Féin still walloping them in the poles on a regular basis.

This is the difficulty for the SDLP, few can argue that they have made a massive contribution over several years, and most of the foreward thinking changes have the fingerprints of SDLP architects all over them : fair employment law and GFA being just two of these. In many ways they have been the true leaders of conflict resolution here, and under John Hume made the ultimate political sacrifice of risking electoral loss and their very existence , in the interests of peace. Seamus Mallon on the other hand has been exposed as party political minnow defined by his palpable antagonism to SF.  John Hume was a true giant, with his humanist and altruistic values overriding party political or even patriotic concerns. His was the correct decision , but has left a party struggling for its identity, as to put it very simply , it represented non-violent republicanism during the conflict , vigorously but constitutionally fighting for rights. Now that the conflict is over,  it appears to be fighting a battle it can't win against Sinn Féin. Most "nationalist" voters see little difference between the policies of SF and SDLP , but will usually favour SF as their history of standing up to Britain for over 100 years is more attractive to most "nationalist" voters. This is something the SDLP needs to reflect on. They have always espoused the equality and respect agenda now claimed by Sinn Féin. They do their founders and activists no favours by actually diluting the strength of this agenda, by being distracted in waging a war against SF which they can never win. Regrettably some in their ranks continue to treat SF as the "great unwashed", citing their violent past. Though many would argue that this antagonism has more to do with classist snobbery.
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past. Most of the leaders in the republic over the past 100 years came directly or indirectly from a violent background. Perhaps it was easier , because both FF and FG had blood on their hands from previous conflict and therefore neither could really past judgement on each  other. Also , They were often too busy dealing with "real" issues like the economy etc.
I think the SDLP need to get to the stage where , instead of basking in their past political contribution and their clean hands, they should get their architects to work on building a new Ireland and focus on the equality and respect agenda which unites 85% of this island, rather than petty squabbling and antagonism towards a much stronger SF who will be willing partners in such an equality strategy.

SDLP should remember that the real enemy here, and the reason for ongoing conflict and lack of progress are the DUP. They need to be brave enough to sideline these dinosaurs, for once and for all , and see where it takes us. They can only do it along with their equality partners eg SF , Alliance etc, and it doesn't serve the SDLP well to distract focus from the DUP by concentrating on SF.
Personally I'm fed up of living in a political backwater, led by bedgrudging or even bullying unionism. We are on the threshold of bringing this dominance to an end, and replacing it with equality and respect for all. The  SDLP have the ability and kudos within their ranks to be potential leaders in that process, but they can't do it by trying to paint DUP and SF as the joint enemy !

Can't disagree with any of that.

[trailer]

People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.

One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.

[Brick Tamlin]

explain how they rig elections. im intrigued

[trailer]

explain how they rig elections. im intrigued

Widespread voter fraud using proxy votes.

[haranguerer]

Go on

[BennyCake]

People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.

One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.

I agree with that. They know the DUP are against it, and because it "seems" like every Tom Dick and Harry are for it, they push the same sex marriage thing to make the DUP look bad.

One side can't be seen to be agreeing with the other. They are deceiving voters, and are only in it for their own gain. Both sides. Hence, why I tear up my voting card when it arrives.

[AQMP]

People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.

One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.

I agree with that. They know the DUP are against it, and because it "seems" like every Tom Dick and Harry are for it, they push the same sex marriage thing to make the DUP look bad.

One side can't be seen to be agreeing with the other. They are deceiving voters, and are only in it for their own gain. Both sides. Hence, why I tear up my voting card when it arrives.

If that makes you feel better then well and good, but it is a symbolic gesture as you don't actually need a polling card to cast your vote.

[BennyCake]

People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.

One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.

I agree with that. They know the DUP are against it, and because it "seems" like every Tom Dick and Harry are for it, they push the same sex marriage thing to make the DUP look bad.

One side can't be seen to be agreeing with the other. They are deceiving voters, and are only in it for their own gain. Both sides. Hence, why I tear up my voting card when it arrives.

If that makes you feel better then well and good, but it is a symbolic gesture as you don't actually need a polling card to cast your vote.

Fair enough, didn't know that. And it does make me feel better

[Applesisapples]

The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.