Arlene's bigotry shines through

Started by StGallsGAA, February 14, 2018, 01:13:21 PM

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michaelg

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 10, 2018, 12:46:02 AM
Quote from: michaelg on April 09, 2018, 10:38:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?

To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments  about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.

/Jim

But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.

By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.

Excellent post.  DUP in aprticular do not speak for younger Protestants.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/04/northern-irish-unionist-parties-alienating-young-protestants-study

Many also only vote for them due to polarised nature of politics in NI.  I would rather put pins in my eyes.

Whatever their reasoning the majority of unionists give them a mandate to speak for them.

/Jiim.
Obviously they get the majority of unionist votes polled, however, when the turnout can fall to almost 50%, they may not be getting voted in by the majority of unionists available to vote.

BennyCake

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 10, 2018, 12:43:41 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?

To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments  about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.

/Jim

But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.

By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.

I am not tarring all unionists or northerners with any brush. I am referring to the likes of Arlene who would feel compelled to emigrate in the event of a United Ireland. I  questioning the relationship reasons she (and they) would have for this.

/Jim.

Take any words a politican says with a pinch of salt. Arlene was just trotting out the usual bluff. Same as May with her Brexit bluff. Politicans, for the want of a better term, sticking out their chests.  You wouldn't expect anything less.

Rossfan

Quote from: michaelg on April 10, 2018, 07:20:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2018, 11:51:23 PM
Michael do you and others of your thinking vote at all?
Who would ye most likely vote for if ye did vote? ?
I have voted 2 or 3 times since the GFA.  It's a difficult choice given the ballbags (Both sides by the way) who run for election.
You're leaving it to others  to decide so.
If there were more non aligned ball bags elected it might help.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

AQMP

For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.

johnnycool

Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 09:54:32 AM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.

Has her statements released last night not thrown some of her SPADs under the bus already?

She'll use the "I left that detail up to the civil servants" and the "no, I wasn't informed of the overspend" even though she was told several times, but alas no minutes were taken!

Milltown Row2

Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 09:54:32 AM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.

Has her statements released last night not thrown some of her SPADs under the bus already?

She'll use the "I left that detail up to the civil servants" and the "no, I wasn't informed of the overspend" even though she was told several times, but alas no minutes were taken!

But surely with her being a christian, with church and faith is a big part of her life she'd be telling the inquiry the truth? does she have to put her hand on a bible for this inquiry? lol
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

AQMP

Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 10:45:39 AM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 09:54:32 AM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.

Has her statements released last night not thrown some of her SPADs under the bus already?

She'll use the "I left that detail up to the civil servants" and the "no, I wasn't informed of the overspend" even though she was told several times, but alas no minutes were taken!

Yeah, it looks like she's going to blame a lot on Andrew Crawford the SPAD who resigned - but he admitted yesterday that he still works PT for the DUP.  That's despite her saying when he resigned that the inquiry would exonerate him.  I've followed this fairly closely.  So far no smoking gun for Foster.  To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

Hereiam

I still think the DUP were told by someone in westminister that the treasury was going to cover the cost of the complete RHI Scheme so the DUP took this as a way to get a few of their major friends a few pound. 

Owen Brannigan

Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.

johnnycool

Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.

There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.

There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.

So if that gets Nick Cotton off the hook will the shinners go back into Gov?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

AQMP

Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.

There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.

The key point seems to be a meeting on 14 June 2011 (this actually happened while the consultant's report was still in draft form).  Senior civil servant Fiona Hepper told the inquiry that she took Foster through the costings of RHI in detail.  Foster says it is "unlikely that that happened" (note use of language, she doesn't say it definitely didn't happen).  The problem (for everyone) is that there is no written record of what was discussed at that meeting - which is mind numbing, given what has transpired.

Denn Forever

I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

johnnycool

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 01:49:31 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 01:39:22 PM
Quote from: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.

There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.

So if that gets Nick Cotton off the hook will the shinners go back into Gov?

I don't think Arlene stepping aside was part of the botched deal a few weeks back, so I can't see this making a button of difference if Arlene isn't prepared to sign off on the ILA.

AQMP

She's sounding a bit like Rory Harrison ;):

"Inquiry panel member Dr Keith MacLean notes that Mrs Foster says she didn't do anything wrong and he asks: "But did you do all the right things?"

Mrs Foster says that's for the panel to decide, but makes the point that she would've acted differently if she'd known some of what she knows now.

When pressed to give examples of things she didn't do but should or could have done, she says"none that spring to mind at present".