Arlene's bigotry shines through

[tiempo]

I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.

[Owen Brannigan]

I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.

The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.

Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.

[Sweeper 123]

and how are protestants doing now in the ROI (im sure there are still some) - i dont believe there are any issues, even playing GAA

[Owen Brannigan]

and how are protestants doing now in the ROI (im sure there are still some) - i dont believe there are any issues, even playing GAA

You have to realise that the DUP and its supporters do not live in the 21st century, they believe in restoring things to 1950s and 1960s when they dominated society, there was no EU, Britain still ruled the waves and N.Ireland was ruled by people titled Captain and Major.  Therefore, they see RoI as it was at these times and not as a modern pluralist society with economic growth beyond the dreams of many other countries.

[tiempo]

I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.

The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.

Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.

Were the elected representatives not fit to stand up to the men of cloth? What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?

[armaghniac]

I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

Define didn't do too well? Were they poorer than other people? Could they not become President? Were their schools closed down? Was their university disadvantaged?

[Owen Brannigan]

I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.

The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.

Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.

Were the elected representatives not fit to stand up to the men of cloth? What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?

Correct.  They worked hand in hand or under instruction, depending on your viewpoint, with the hierarchy of the Catholic Church in developing the constitution which gave a special place to the Catholic Church. De Valera and Bishop McQuaid are often regarded as joint authors of the constitution.

Elected representatives did not cross the Catholic Church and allowed it to subjugate the people and handed over state resources to allow it to run mother and baby homes, industrial schools and orphanages where citizens were subjected to the worst abuses without state intervention.  Catholic Church was handed the education system and even until now prevents children attending its primary schools if not baptised into the Catholic Church.

You would do well to read of history of the formation of the Irish state and the domination of the Catholic hierarchy before getting into mopery about the North.  Both sides of the border dealt badly with those who were not part of the dominant political and religious grouping.

The Republic was a cold house for the vast majority of Protestants and a very difficult place for the majority of poor Catholics.

[tiempo]

I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.

The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.

Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.

Were the elected representatives not fit to stand up to the men of cloth? What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?

Correct.  They worked hand in hand or under instruction, depending on your viewpoint, with the hierarchy of the Catholic Church in developing the constitution which gave a special place to the Catholic Church. De Valera and Bishop McQuaid are often regarded as joint authors of the constitution.

Elected representatives did not cross the Catholic Church and allowed it to subjugate the people and handed over state resources to allow it to run mother and baby homes, industrial schools and orphanages where citizens were subjected to the worst abuses without state intervention.  Catholic Church was handed the education system and even until now prevents children attending its primary schools if not baptised into the Catholic Church.

You would do well to read of history of the formation of the Irish state and the domination of the Catholic hierarchy before getting into mopery about the North.  Both sides of the border dealt badly with those who were not part of the dominant political and religious grouping.

The Republic was a cold house for the vast majority of Protestants and a very difficult place for the majority of poor Catholics.

That should lead you nicely into the second part of the question. What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?

It would be interesting to further qualify what exactly happened and quantify it with more than anacdotal evidence maintaining balance throughout if you are going to add the issues in the north into the mix. I admit I'm asking for the best part of a thesis which you might not have time to pen on here any time soon but a high level account would be great 

If thats not possible could someone just point out to me which political parties were responsible.

[Rossfan]

Big difference between state sponsored murder, displacement,  pogrom and refusal of civil rights suffered by 35% (as it was) as opposed to none of the above suffered by 5%.
In these post Religious days it's hard to understand the total Catholic ethos of the 26 Cos.
However the State had little money and was quite happy to have the 2 main Churches provide schooling and social services.
Mind you the 6 Cos "Government" were quite happy to let the Catholic Church look after Education of Catholic kids.

[tiempo]

Big difference between state sponsored murder, displacement,  pogrom and refusal of civil rights suffered by 35% (as it was) as opposed to none of the above suffered by 5%.
In these post Religious days it's hard to understand the total Catholic ethos of the 26 Cos.
However the State had little money and was quite happy to have the 2 main Churches provide schooling and social services.
Mind you the 6 Cos "Government" were quite happy to let the Catholic Church look after Education of Catholic kids.

So if none of the above then what made the 26co's a cold house for Protestants post 1921? And who were the parties in power at the time who perpetrated this? Was it an isolated incident of one government or consecutive governments and for how long?

[Owen Brannigan]

It would be interesting to further qualify what exactly happened and quantify it with more than anacdotal evidence maintaining balance throughout if you are going to add the issues in the north into the mix. I admit I'm asking for the best part of a thesis which you might not have time to pen on here any time soon but a high level account would be great 

If thats not possible could someone just point out to me which political parties were responsible.

I have not given you anecdotal evidence, I have provided you with historical fact.  The Irish Catholic Church in conjunction with De Valera wrote a constitution that ensured that the new Republic was a Catholic state.  the state handed over a significant welfare issue to the Church to run as it wished and within its own ethos.  It handed over the education system to the Church which as stated above it still controls until today and by prohibiting anyone not baptised to enter the primary schools in the state.

If the constitution of the state is specifically written to favour a religion and you are not part of that religion then the state is colluding in discrimination at the most basic level in terms of your rights.  Hence, Protestants who were cut off by the partitioning of the country found themselves in a state that did not respect their religious faith and left them with few options.  Their dispersal across the country left them in an even more difficult position.  Those in the border counties had the option to move North, many left to go to England as the English army withdrew and others had to assimilate into the Catholic state with no time or respect for their religious beliefs. Just as N.Ireland was being declared to be a Protestant state for a Protestant people, the Republic constitutionally and in practice given the welfare and educational situation alone became a Catholic state for Catholic people.

[Denn Forever]

It was  a perception on my part.  Some Irish Times pieces on it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/protestant-population-decline-1.297051

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-secret-lives-of-ireland-s-protestants-1.2955670

[armaghniac]

It was  a perception on my part.  Some Irish Times pieces on it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/protestant-population-decline-1.297051

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-secret-lives-of-ireland-s-protestants-1.2955670

Issues concerning the Catholic church are not concerned with the political structure of the country, a Protestant could be in a small and declining minority in Forkhill as well as Fethard.

There was a Protestant population decline, but this started before independence and included people lost in WW1 and so on. If these people felt British then why would they not go to Britain, which has twice the living standard at that time, as so many Irish people who did not think themselves British did?

I think accuracy is important in these matters.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

I see the ethnic cleansing/genocide crap raising its head again and of course the decline in the protestant population from 1850 up until independence when the empire was in all its pomp was similar to the post independence decline but shhh dont tell anybody. Mundane reasons such as intermarriage and british army and civil servants leaving isnt very exciting

[Owen Brannigan]

Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.