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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: StGallsGAA on February 14, 2018, 01:13:21 PM

Title: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: StGallsGAA on February 14, 2018, 01:13:21 PM
On Tuesday, the DUP leader said there would be:
- no compulsory Irish language in schools (fair enough)
- no-one would be forced to learn Irish (fair enough)
- no quotas for Irish speakers in the civil service (can understand concerns,  so one for further discussion)
- would be no bilingual road signs (why not?)

How on earth could bilingual road signs impact anyone's rights?  Your hatred of Irish language must be such that the very sight of it is unacceptable to you.   This is a demand based on nothing rational, simply blind bigotry.  Keep digging that hole for yourself Arlene. 

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2018, 01:16:35 PM
With this and Brexit, it is evident that the unionist community has abandoned any sense of sharing the 6 counties. Which is rather strange when they are a declining proportion of its population.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: RedHand88 on February 14, 2018, 01:41:00 PM
Show me studies which prove accidents are more common in the south than the north because the south have bilingual road signs. Otherwise, away with that rubbish.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tonto1888 on February 14, 2018, 01:41:09 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.

all fair points but are these the road sign related reasons the DUP are adamant there will be no act?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.

Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2018, 01:46:02 PM
There are place-name signs and warning signs. Place-names are Irish in origin and should on signs. Warning signs should have as little text as possible but be symbolic, so they might well not change.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on February 14, 2018, 01:49:51 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.

Complete and utter shite
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.

Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.

Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Dire Ear on February 14, 2018, 01:52:47 PM
Unionism generally have no leaders , leading by example so that all have equal rights
No give way with the majority of them,  and no forward thinking
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: StGallsGAA on February 14, 2018, 01:53:12 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
Where has Arlene suggested their opposition is due to cost?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 01:57:17 PM
There are Irish language enthusiasts in Connemara and West Kerry who oppose having road signs in English. They are prepared to take English speakers Euros though
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2018, 02:04:33 PM
There are Irish language enthusiasts in Connemara and West Kerry who oppose having road signs in English. They are prepared to take English speakers Euros though

There are people in Italy, Spain, Germany, Denmark etc who have roadsigns in their language and who also welcome tourists from English speaking regions.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 02:08:45 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.

Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.

Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.

Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.   
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 02:09:25 PM
Under an Irish language act Orange Halls would be forced to offer confession.Protestant bars would be put out of business if they refused to sell holy water.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 14, 2018, 02:12:38 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.

Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.

Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.
Who's saying that?

FWIW I drive through areas with Ulster Scots road signs (yes there are some out there) and am I offended, no?
I do get wee laugh to myself when I see the sign for the "Hard Bried Raa" in Greyabbey, f**king stupid looking
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 02:17:59 PM
Show me studies which prove accidents are more common in the south than the north because the south have bilingual road signs. Otherwise, away with that rubbish.

There’s been quite a few studies undertaken in Scotland and Wales about this and the general consensus seems to be that bilingual signs take longer to read, but as yet there is no evidence that this leads to increased levels of RTCs.

My personal feelings are that roads are dangerous enough without millisecond distractions.

I won’t be lining up an I told you so should a report ever be produced to back up that feeling. But it would be helpful if people could acknowledge the simple fact that it takes people longer to read signs that are longer.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: thewobbler on February 14, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
Where has Arlene suggested their opposition is due to cost?


I’m not bothered about Arlene’s opinions and objections to be honest.

There’s potholes destroying wheels on every country road in NI at present. If cost savings can be made, they can be re applied elsewhere.

Meanwhile, try driving cross country from Naas to Drogheda without sat nav and watch how an endless series of crossroads interchange between having no signs, signs in Irish, signs in English, bilingual signs, and worst of all no common pattern in the direction they’re sending you in (Navan, Drogheda and Trim will appear randomly on junctions). That to me is a much bigger issue than whether our heritage is being protected.

They’re road signs. Their job is to assist the flow of traffic. They shouldn’t be used as political tools or treated as monuments to nationalism. They should help get me home.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 14, 2018, 02:33:21 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.

Complete and utter shite

You beat me to it
The funniest part was more Ink, Has the SF stipulated no modern graphics in replacement of signs
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 02:34:15 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.

Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.

Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.

Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.   
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Keyser soze on February 14, 2018, 02:35:42 PM
Unionists again demonstrating that NI is completely unworkable. I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2018, 02:42:08 PM
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger

The unionists have been in the manger for 500 years. Time to move over in the bed.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orior on February 14, 2018, 02:48:38 PM
If you drive from Belfast to Ards, you will see signs in Ulster Scots as well as English. Snarlene doesn't seem to have an issue with that.

Some great craic on Twitter with people like Jim Allister and people explaining how e.g. Broughshane is an Irish name.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 02:53:40 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.

Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.

Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.

Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.   
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger

They are a political party. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't compare SF to the Irish Language either. 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 03:23:05 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.

Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.

Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.

Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.   
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger

They are a political party. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't compare SF to the Irish Language either.
Being a political party doesn't stop them being sectarian no more than DUP.
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on February 14, 2018, 03:27:29 PM
Strange how the DUPUDA want the 6 Cos to be different to Scotland and Wales.  ;D
Yes indeed the oul hatred and bigotry showing in spades again.
Will they all leave when they discover that 90% of placenames in the 6 Cos are bad pronunciations and English phonetic spellings of Gaeilge??
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: screenexile on February 14, 2018, 03:28:43 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.

Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.

Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.

Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.   

It's exactly the way Unionists/Nationalists are proclaiming this. . . it doesn't matter that they aren't the same it's perception.

I literally could not give one f**king iota about an Irish language act. Blah blah symbolism equality etc. etc. It's bolloxology and if this is what is holding up a deal then shame on all parties. DUP should give a token in allowing Irish Language street signs in areas where requested but bollocks to the rest of it sure hardly anybody speaks it and nobody is stopping anybody from speaking it if they want to!

Get back to work!!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: rosnarun on February 14, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
is there anything that nordies wont argue about .
seems to me that all the big issues have been resolved(apart from sovereignty) thanks to the IRA sinn fein and SDLP but you all still hate one another so you argue about anything Just to show your not going to give an inch.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on February 14, 2018, 03:42:14 PM
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.

Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.

SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.

SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.

I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: general_lee on February 14, 2018, 03:47:09 PM
is there anything that nordies wont argue about .
seems to me that all the big issues have been resolved(apart from sovereignty) thanks to the IRA sinn fein and SDLP but you all still hate one another so you argue about anything Just to show your not going to give an inch.
I love this free stater ignorance. Even reasonable people across the political spectrum can accept that the DUP are a special case. It’s not a case of not giving an inch, it’s s case of having bigoted insular right-wing British nationalists block anything that doesn’t conform to their vision of a traditional, white, Christian, Protestant, British Northern Ireland. Unfortunately people in their droves (and by people I mean working class Protestants) vote these clowns in based on a shared love of an outdated sense of loyalty to a monarchy that doesn’t even care about them, despite the fact the DUP will do next to nothing for these communities unless is some form of benefit in it for their party.

Sinn Féin actually work for the communities they represent (Loyalists will tell you this in envy) and whatever about their past (let’s not forget Unionist parties aren’t squeaky clean either) have made genuine efforts to reach out to Unionism. Unionism can’t even bear the thought of legislative recognition of the Irish language and instead retreat into this pathetic accusation of “cultural supremacy”; something they wrote the f**king book on!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on February 14, 2018, 04:10:58 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 04:14:57 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"

So it looks like a fight to the death between Snarlene and Hyacinth
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 14, 2018, 04:31:47 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"

So it looks like alight to the death between Snarlene and Hyacinth

And he's advising other people to get educated  ::) Another razor sharp thrust from the board's resident idiot
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 04:32:41 PM
Sinn Fein are silly

drop the roadsigns issue. allow schools to teach Irish if they wish.
get the assembly back up running.
christ almighty.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Dire Ear on February 14, 2018, 04:33:05 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-43064009
no deal
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on February 14, 2018, 04:38:44 PM
Sinn Fein are silly

drop the roadsigns issue. allow schools to teach Irish if they wish.
get the assembly back up running.
christ almighty.

This road signs is bollix. If you're a Gaeltacht area, yes. Otherwise, no.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2018, 04:43:54 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.
The cost to the economy is minimal. DiffereNT languages have different fonts. English is in capitals. There are no coherent arguments against bilingual road signs imo.

Unionists do not want any visible sign of Irishness in their little corner of England Mar dhea.

Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.

Are you seriously comparing the OO with the Irish language? That's the sort of sh!te that goes on. One is a language. The other is a sectarian organisation. But you see them as equal. Jesus wept.   
Unionists will say that sf is a sectarian organisation. Neither side will concede anything and are happy to play dog in the manger

They are a political party. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. I wouldn't compare SF to the Irish Language either.
Being a political party doesn't stop them being sectarian no more than DUP.
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols

I never said SF aren't sectarian (Nor that they are either), but I did say that the Irish language and by extension Irish road signs are not sectarian. That's my point.
There are loads of everyday British symbols in everyday life and we aren't clammering to get rid of them. We're not asking for the English language to be taken of the signs and replaced by Irish. (By the way, I couldn't care less about having Irish road signs but Nationalists should not be the only one compromising anymore. The day of Unionist veto's has to end).
 
   
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 04:44:36 PM
Sinn Fein are silly

drop the roadsigns issue. allow schools to teach Irish if they wish.
get the assembly back up running.
christ almighty.
The unionists are fighting against the dying of the light
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 14, 2018, 04:47:00 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-43064009
no deal

Fine. Let demographics and Brexit take care of the rest. Arlene Foster is playing such a blinder that surely she must be a Sinn Fein plant.. Tiocfaidh ar la!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on February 14, 2018, 04:51:25 PM
The DUP have made Teresa May look foolish twice now. The fact that her and Varadkar flew over to Dublin on Monday would give the impression that they either expected a deal or thought that they could push a deal over the line. Neither happened. Most nationalists would like to see an assembly up and running to provide some form of local governance in the short term but deep down I don't think many are overly bothered about Stormont. Arlene Foster has overseen a litany of mishaps, collapsed deals and broken promises under her tenure. She is being led by the bottom up instead of taking risks and showing real leadership from the top down. 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on February 14, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.

Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.

SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.

SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.

I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.

ffs. Where have you been living your lifetime? at what point does it stop? Nationalists were supposed to have equality - do they? There not being open state-sponsored discrimination is a long way from equality, and its the least that's deserved. The ILA is the vehicle that demonstrates the DUP have no interest in equality - thats how it has gained such prominence. Wake up and look around before falling into the claptrap being repeated by unionists claiming to talk sense. This isn't supposed to be their NI any more, its supposed to belong to all of us. I can see why they find it hard to give up power they've held for decades, i fail to see how you are ignorant enough not to recognise what is really going on here.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Syferus on February 14, 2018, 05:06:49 PM
It has to start in the first place for it to be able to stop.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on February 14, 2018, 05:12:17 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-43064009
no deal

Fine. Let demographics and Brexit take care of the rest. Arlene Foster is playing such a blinder that surely she must be a Sinn Fein plant.. Tiocfaidh ar la!

You couldn't make it up. 

To be fair one thing the DUP are good at is leading the media by the nose.  They briefed journalists over the weekend that a deal was in the offing.  Journos fall all over themselves to say it's imminent, and Leo and Theresa buy the BS.  What they were doing was running a possible deal up the flagpole to see how the knuckle draggers would react.  The grassroots, OO and Jamie Bryson say NEVER and the deal is fecked.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 05:14:57 PM
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"

So it looks like alight to the death between Snarlene and Hyacinth

And he's advising other people to get educated  ::) Another razor sharp thrust from the board's resident idiot
Did Nurse open your strait jacket to let you at the magic machine for a while?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 14, 2018, 05:35:19 PM
The DUP have made Teresa May look foolish twice now. The fact that her and Varadkar flew over to Dublin on Monday would give the impression that they either expected a deal or thought that they could push a deal over the line. Neither happened. Most nationalists would like to see an assembly up and running to provide some form of local governance in the short term but deep down I don't think many are overly bothered about Stormont. Arlene Foster has overseen a litany of mishaps, collapsed deals and broken promises under her tenure. She is being led by the bottom up instead of taking risks and showing real leadership from the top down.

They bum and blow about the power of their 10 MPs at Westminster, but it's completely built on sand. If May f**ks them over by backing down to the EU over special status for the putrid statelet after Brexit what are they gonna do? Pull the government down and let Corbyn in, who utterly despises them? And where's the £1bn they were crowing about. Next to nothing has been delivered on that front. They are like a wee kid closing his eyes, covering his ears and screaming No No No No No No No. The crocodiles have awakened thanks to the DUP and have realised loyalists will never treat the native people of this part of the island as equals, so they're going to use their mandate to bring the artificial shithole to an end once and for all. Paisley saw what was in the wind, so did Robinson, that's why they attempted to moderate their approach, but both fell to the bigots of their party, loyalism and the Orange Order. They just don't realise, or are too stupid to see, that the dam has cracked and the hole is only gonna get bigger. It's endgame, and when history is written we will have a thoroughly mediocre solicitor from Irvinestown to thank for a lot of it  :)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2018, 05:50:02 PM
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.

Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.

SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.

SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.

I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.

ffs. Where have you been living your lifetime? at what point does it stop? Nationalists were supposed to have equality - do they? There not being open state-sponsored discrimination is a long way from equality, and its the least that's deserved. The ILA is the vehicle that demonstrates the DUP have no interest in equality - thats how it has gained such prominence. Wake up and look around before falling into the claptrap being repeated by unionists claiming to talk sense. This isn't supposed to be their NI any more, its supposed to belong to all of us. I can see why they find it hard to give up power they've held for decades, i fail to see how you are ignorant enough not to recognise what is really going on here.

What equality do you not have?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on February 14, 2018, 05:51:58 PM
The DUP have made Teresa May look foolish twice now. The fact that her and Varadkar flew over to Dublin on Monday would give the impression that they either expected a deal or thought that they could push a deal over the line. Neither happened. Most nationalists would like to see an assembly up and running to provide some form of local governance in the short term but deep down I don't think many are overly bothered about Stormont. Arlene Foster has overseen a litany of mishaps, collapsed deals and broken promises under her tenure. She is being led by the bottom up instead of taking risks and showing real leadership from the top down.

They bum and blow about the power of their 10 MPs at Westminster, but it's completely built on sand. If May f**ks them over by backing down to the EU over special status for the putrid statelet after Brexit what are they gonna do? Pull the government down and let Corbyn in, who utterly despises them? And where's the £1bn they were crowing about. Next to nothing has been delivered on that front. They are like a wee kid closing his eyes, covering his ears and screaming No No No No No No No. The crocodiles have awakened thanks to the DUP and have realised loyalists will never treat the native people of this part of the island as equals, so they're going to use their mandate to bring the artificial shithole to an end once and for all. Paisley saw what was in the wind, so did Robinson, that's why they attempted to moderate their approach, but both fell to the bigots of their party, loyalism and the Orange Order. They just don't realise, or are too stupid to see, that the dam has cracked and the hole is only gonna get bigger. It's endgame, and when history is written we will have a thoroughly mediocre solicitor from Irvinestown to thank for a lot of it  :)

Agree with all of that.

A very weak leader, she will do anything to save her own skin and is being influenced from the bottom up. She lost her nerve again, at least Trimble, Paisley and Robinson took brave decisions, when faced with a big decision she just reverts to type. Short term insular thinking driven by the fear, hatred and bigotry of Allister and Bryson screaming betrayal from the sideline.   
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on February 14, 2018, 06:05:24 PM
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.

Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.

SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.

SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.

I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.

ffs. Where have you been living your lifetime? at what point does it stop? Nationalists were supposed to have equality - do they? There not being open state-sponsored discrimination is a long way from equality, and its the least that's deserved. The ILA is the vehicle that demonstrates the DUP have no interest in equality - thats how it has gained such prominence. Wake up and look around before falling into the claptrap being repeated by unionists claiming to talk sense. This isn't supposed to be their NI any more, its supposed to belong to all of us. I can see why they find it hard to give up power they've held for decades, i fail to see how you are ignorant enough not to recognise what is really going on here.
100 % agree with this.  That's it in a nutshell.  I get that a lot of nationalists on here don't give a toss about Irish road signs etc. but enough is enough.  How they cant see that I don't know.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 06:05:29 PM
For what it’s worth, bilingual road signs (when the second language is Gaeilge) are more costly to create. There must be tens of thousands of signs across Ireland that declare Rampaí, which means signs are bigger and need more ink.

More importantly, the increased levels of text involved in bilingualism decreases the legibility of those signs, and therefore decreases their ability to deliver information instantaneously. As such they could be perceived as a distraction to drivers.... and therefore make driving more dangerous.

The opposite might apply in somewhere like Croatia, whereby their influx of tourists undoubtedly struggle with the unusual characters in their lanaguage, and providing an English language version of the message helps prevent tourists from slowing to a stop at junctions and roundabouts.

But in Ireland, where every single person who speaks Irish also speaks English, and tourists have no understanding of Irish, I do believe it’s an unnecessary distraction.

Never read such garbage in all my life.

It's customary to replace signs as they wear out when switching to a new standard, so there's no extra cost.

"More ink" indeed. We're not printing on a page. You need a reflective surface for the font AND the background, so there's not one square millimetre extra of paint used.

Signs can be made perfectly legible with an additional language added if you use a bit of imagination and design them properly.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on February 14, 2018, 06:19:41 PM
Jesus what a bunch of w**kers up here.

Why don't both give the other what they want, and in turn they win themselves in the long run.

SF agree to DUP requests - shows unionists that theyd be accommodated in a UI
DUP agree to SF requests - shows nationalists theyre better off in UK, and SF would have nothing to complain about. Support for a UI would diminish.

SF are pushing the ILA so far unionists will despise anything Irish even more (if thats possible) than they do already. And vice versa.

I honestly think Stormont is all about the few in both parties, lining their own pockets, feeding their egos. They don't give a flying fcuk for anyone in this hellhole. But all this shite filters down from Stormont into the general population making it an intolerable cesspit for the ordinary joe.

ffs. Where have you been living your lifetime? at what point does it stop? Nationalists were supposed to have equality - do they? There not being open state-sponsored discrimination is a long way from equality, and its the least that's deserved. The ILA is the vehicle that demonstrates the DUP have no interest in equality - thats how it has gained such prominence. Wake up and look around before falling into the claptrap being repeated by unionists claiming to talk sense. This isn't supposed to be their NI any more, its supposed to belong to all of us. I can see why they find it hard to give up power they've held for decades, i fail to see how you are ignorant enough not to recognise what is really going on here.
100 % agree with this.  That's it in a nutshell.  I get that a lot of nationalists on here don't give a toss about Irish road signs etc. but enough is enough.  How they cant see that I don't know.

Bang on.

What have the dup ever compromised on? Ever?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Minder on February 14, 2018, 06:24:22 PM
Not just the DUP, no appetite for an ILA across Unionism so Foster was never going to be able to sell it
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on February 14, 2018, 06:25:30 PM
Do I take it that most of  the Nationalist Community aren't too bothered if Stormont and the Executive are gone?

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 06:38:41 PM
Nationalists dont want the Orange Order with their symbols of British culture marching through Nationalists areas but you think the Unionists should have symbols of Irish culture in Unionist areas.

If the OO could drop the anti-catholic bigotry I wouldn't have a problem with them marching wherever they want. There's plenty in their culture that they could celebrate without selling "kick the Pope" mix tapes and banishing anyone that goes to a "popish" funeral.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Minder on February 14, 2018, 06:39:27 PM
Do I take it that most of  the Nationalist Community aren't too bothered if Stormont and the Executive are gone?

Well it depends how harsh direct rule is, normal people just want the place governed competently
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 06:41:56 PM
Show me studies which prove accidents are more common in the south than the north because the south have bilingual road signs. Otherwise, away with that rubbish.

There’s been quite a few studies undertaken in Scotland and Wales about this and the general consensus seems to be that bilingual signs take longer to read, but as yet there is no evidence that this leads to increased levels of RTCs.

My personal feelings are that roads are dangerous enough without millisecond distractions.

I won’t be lining up an I told you so should a report ever be produced to back up that feeling. But it would be helpful if people could acknowledge the simple fact that it takes people longer to read signs that are longer.

A car-load of speed-obsessed teenage lads with R plates and alloy wheels are a far bigger threat to road safety than a sign saying "Béal Feirste."
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 06:44:40 PM
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols
Translation: "I didn't compare the OO to the Irish language, I just compared the OO to the Irish language."
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 14, 2018, 06:46:42 PM
Show me studies which prove accidents are more common in the south than the north because the south have bilingual road signs. Otherwise, away with that rubbish.

There’s been quite a few studies undertaken in Scotland and Wales about this and the general consensus seems to be that bilingual signs take longer to read, but as yet there is no evidence that this leads to increased levels of RTCs.

My personal feelings are that roads are dangerous enough without millisecond distractions.

I won’t be lining up an I told you so should a report ever be produced to back up that feeling. But it would be helpful if people could acknowledge the simple fact that it takes people longer to read signs that are longer.

A car-load of speed-obsessed teenage lads with R plates and alloy wheels are a far bigger threat to road safety than a sign saying "Béal Feirste."

Chances are if the sign says “Beal Feirste” it’s someone else’s car
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 06:50:59 PM
Do I take it that most of  the Nationalist Community aren't too bothered if Stormont and the Executive are gone?

I get the impression nationalists want the assembly more than the unionists. In fact, unionists would prefer direct rule over power-sharing (or "mandatory coalition" as they've tried to re-brand it). This is why I think SF have boxed themselves into a corner here. Sure Dodds was up at PMQs last week asking May if there was any chance of getting direct rule going.

SF "threatened" to collapse an assembly that the unionists are half-hearted about at best, and Arlene et al are happy to see it go. It's like "threatening" your child to take away his vegetables if he doesn't eat them.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 14, 2018, 06:53:02 PM
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols
Translation: "I didn't compare the OO to the Irish language, I just compared the OO to the Irish language."

CoCo the Clown strikes again
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 06:58:09 PM
Any harm in asking what kind of ILA we'd like to see?

From the shopping list, here's what I'd like to see and what I'm not fussed about:


Increasing the number of people who can actually speak the language fluently has to come first. Being able to do all official business in Irish can come later when there's sufficient demand for it.

If SF could tone down their demands as to what they want to see in an ILA there'd be a better chance of getting one. Frankly I'm sad to see culture being weaponised as a political pawn. It didn't help at the time of the Drumcree parade disputes and it's not helping now, it's just reinforcing this unionist perception that Irish and Irishness is something that's a threat to them.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
Foster is too mediocre to be in charge now. She is a small minded unionist who isn't a patch on Terence Ó Neill. The Unionist dominance is over and they need someone who can think strategically. No no no is no longer going to fly.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on February 14, 2018, 07:24:35 PM
Stop the wages for the whole lot of them and let’s see things change.

Serious question for those that think this will help the nationalists and bring around a UI quicker.

Why or how do you think that?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 07:25:47 PM

[/quote]
The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"

Quite right.

We don't need a government. We don't need a representative assembly. We don't have issues we need addressed. The important thing is we make Arlene eat her words. I'm utterly convinced that this type of smallmindness is the way to go
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 07:57:33 PM
I think a majority of people here want to to see the assembly and executive up and running. They want to see decisions even tough ones made. They would also like to see some of the bribe Theresa gave Arlene and Nigel actually spent.

The problem is that of those that vote a majority voted for 2 parties that have little (DUP) or no (SF) interest in making the executive work.

DUP are happy to work the assembly and executive as long as they don't have to yield to anything that annoys a powerful minority in their voting base. They fear that base splitting the party.

SF have no interest in making tough decisions in NI that undermines their electioneering stance in RoI. They have ran from responsibility. Anywhere else they would pay an electoral price not here. The SF vote is robust. They could field anyone or indeed anything in any seat that they hold and retain it. So they can treat us northerners as dirt in order to shore up their electioneering in the south.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Square Ball on February 14, 2018, 08:07:23 PM
Foster is too mediocre to be in charge now. She is a small minded unionist who isn't a patch on Terence Ó Neill. The Unionist dominance is over and they need someone who can think strategically. No no no is no longer going to fly.

Is there anyone in the DUP with these credentials?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: TheOptimist on February 14, 2018, 08:08:52 PM

The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"


Quite right.

We don't need a government. We don't need a representative assembly. We don't have issues we need addressed. The important thing is we make Arlene eat her words. I'm utterly convinced that this type of smallmindness is the way to go

Of course we do but it was time for some home truths to get addressed and the DUP were forced to show their true colours. They wanted to kick the ILA can on up the road for another 20 years, Sinn Fein decided time was enough and fair play to them.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: magpie seanie on February 14, 2018, 08:18:38 PM
An ILA was part of the agreements signed up to by all. It's long past time it got done. I don't think SF are being unreasonable at all. And it makes no difference to unionists does it? They're not going to be forced to learn Irish FFS. I think this issue is really showing Foster and unionism up. I also agree that they're circling the plughole.....they've nowhere to go. They've been out thought and are paralysed with fear, not knowing which way to turn.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 14, 2018, 08:19:02 PM
I didn't compare the O.O. to the Irish language. Icompared their symbols, flags banners as British symbols where Nationalists could use Road signs in Irish as Irish symbols
Translation: "I didn't compare the OO to the Irish language, I just compared the OO to the Irish language."

CoCo the Clown strikes again
Shouldn't you be watching your Mccarron films?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 08:19:10 PM

The red flag to the bull was the fact Snarlene said that there would be no ILA on her watch. SF just gona make her eat her words and i for one say "go for it"


Quite right.

We don't need a government. We don't need a representative assembly. We don't have issues we need addressed. The important thing is we make Arlene eat her words. I'm utterly convinced that this type of smallmindness is the way to go

Of course we do but it was time for some home truths to get addressed and the DUP were forced to show their true colours. They wanted to kick the ILA can on up the road for another 20 years, Sinn Fein decided time was enough and fair play to them.

When will it be time to call time on SF kicking health, education and infrastructure down the road?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: hardstation on February 14, 2018, 08:21:23 PM
Show me studies which prove accidents are more common in the south than the north because the south have bilingual road signs. Otherwise, away with that rubbish.

There’s been quite a few studies undertaken in Scotland and Wales about this and the general consensus seems to be that bilingual signs take longer to read, but as yet there is no evidence that this leads to increased levels of RTCs.

My personal feelings are that roads are dangerous enough without millisecond distractions.

I won’t be lining up an I told you so should a report ever be produced to back up that feeling. But it would be helpful if people could acknowledge the simple fact that it takes people longer to read signs that are longer.

A car-load of speed-obsessed teenage lads with R plates and alloy wheels are a far bigger threat to road safety than a sign saying "Béal Feirste."

Chances are if the sign says “Beal Feirste” it’s someone else’s car
I didn’t realise car theft was a big thing outside of Belfast.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2018, 08:25:52 PM
SF have no interest in making tough decisions in NI that undermines their electioneering stance in RoI. They have ran from responsibility. Anywhere else they would pay an electoral price not here. The SF vote is robust. They could field anyone or indeed anything in any seat that they hold and retain it. So they can treat us northerners as dirt in order to shore up their electioneering in the south.

The odd thing is that a NI reflecting both sides is needed if it is to continue, while an affordable NI is needed if there is a be a UI, so both of these lack any long term perspective. However, as the prospect of government in Dublin approaches, SF will have to refine their policies to make them semi implementable and this can affect things in the 6 counties also. The DUP are most likely to disappear up themselves.

Foster is too mediocre to be in charge now. She is a small minded unionist who isn't a patch on Terence Ó Neill. The Unionist dominance is over and they need someone who can think strategically. No no no is no longer going to fly.

Is there anyone in the DUP with these credentials?

Terence O'Neill was a poor leader, although he had some sense of the future.
Not sure if anyone in the DUP is likely to improve things, but Simon Hamilton's twitter is quite different from Sammy Wilson (being mostly about some English soccer team called Liverpool).
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: snoopdog on February 14, 2018, 09:08:03 PM
Sinn Fein surely.have a hidden agenda here. The DUP or unionism were never going to agree to an Irish language act. So where to now for the north. It does reflect the bigotry possessed by unionism they in no way will tolerate any irishness in the 6 counties. They are hanging on to the bitter end and won't give an inch even though their majority is rapidly fading. As proved by Brexit they will do anything no matter how it effects the people of the north to show their loyalty to the crown.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Minder on February 14, 2018, 09:08:57 PM
It doesent  matter who the leader is, Foster is apparently quite “moderate”, she has to sell whatever deal to the wider DUP base, that’s where the problem is. It’s not with one person.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 09:10:06 PM
An ILA was part of the agreements signed up to by all. It's long past time it got done. I don't think SF are being unreasonable at all. And it makes no difference to unionists does it? They're not going to be forced to learn Irish FFS. I think this issue is really showing Foster and unionism up. I also agree that they're circling the plughole.....they've nowhere to go. They've been out thought and are paralysed with fear, not knowing which way to turn.

They know exactly which way to turn. Keep saying "no" to everything. As long as they're propping up such a weak Tory government there's nothing to stop them from blocking progress at every turn. Sad but true.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2018, 09:14:44 PM
It doesent  matter who the leader is, Foster is apparently quite “moderate”, she has to sell whatever deal to the wider DUP base, that’s where the problem is. It’s not with one person.
They need someone to tell them that the old shite won't work any more. If it is polarised and they become a minority they wont be calling any shots.
They need someone who can move the people beyond fear of the unknown..
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2018, 09:25:49 PM
It doesent  matter who the leader is, Foster is apparently quite “moderate”, she has to sell whatever deal to the wider DUP base, that’s where the problem is. It’s not with one person.

She may have something in common with Theresa May in this respect.
However, some of her own interventions, the crocodile thing for instance, we not at all helpful.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: StGallsGAA on February 14, 2018, 09:41:06 PM
It doesent  matter who the leader is, Foster is apparently quite “moderate”, she has to sell whatever deal to the wider DUP base, that’s where the problem is. It’s not with one person.

Really?  Show us some examples of her 'quite moderate' approach then? 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 14, 2018, 09:43:45 PM

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on February 14, 2018, 09:46:49 PM
That's a classic lol.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on February 14, 2018, 10:12:01 PM
Adams was right.  They just can't cope with equality.  Power sharing in the North is finished.  Time for Nats/Repubs to focus on Joint Authority and let the Unionists say No to that, and then no to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing...
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:16:34 PM
Adams was right.  They just can't cope with equality.  Power sharing in the North is finished.  Time for Nats/Repubs to focus on Joint Authority and let the Unionists say No to that, and then no to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing...

A majority of people want power sharing to work. The politicians are failing to make it work.

Where is the majority for joint authority?

Time to get back to government and quit running
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:18:09 PM
Time for SF to publish their proposed ILA. Then we can hold both parties to account
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on February 14, 2018, 10:27:55 PM
Adams was right.  They just can't cope with equality.  Power sharing in the North is finished.  Time for Nats/Repubs to focus on Joint Authority and let the Unionists say No to that, and then no to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing...

A majority of people want power sharing to work. The politicians are failing to make it work.

Where is the majority for joint authority?

Time to get back to government and quit running
Not so sure.  I think the majority of nationalists couldnt give a toss about stormont at this stage.

On your last point, how do you propose that?  Sitting down and agreeing a compromise........? 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 14, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:39:01 PM
Adams was right.  They just can't cope with equality.  Power sharing in the North is finished.  Time for Nats/Repubs to focus on Joint Authority and let the Unionists say No to that, and then no to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing...

A majority of people want power sharing to work. The politicians are failing to make it work.

Where is the majority for joint authority?

Time to get back to government and quit running
Not so sure.  I think the majority of nationalists couldnt give a toss about stormont at this stage.

On your last point, how do you propose that?  Sitting down and agreeing a compromise........?
Certainly a majority of people and of nationalists I deal with want it to work. The alternative is direct rule. The politicians are the only ones with an appetite for that. There are no other alternatives.

SF and DUP could go back to government tomorrow. The absence of agreement on an ILA stops there being an ILA. It doesn't stop there being an agreement on schools, hospitals and infrastructure.

Those who seriously want to put themselves forward for leadership don't get to run away from all issues because they don't agree on one.

To progress the ILA debate publish the proposal.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 10:43:03 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:46:39 PM
Prior to the next election in RoI SF need to set out their position. They aim to be the largest party in RoU. If they need the support of other parties to form a government and they disagree with those parties on a single issue during the life of the parliament will they step away from all government responsibility? How do the propose the country should be run in this scenario?

It's an obvious question
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on February 14, 2018, 10:47:40 PM
SF know unionists won't agree to their demands, which gives them more reason to abandon Stormont and to push for a UI. Meanwhile, the rest of the population deal with the backlash of the shite these two squabbling morons create.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:47:51 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.

They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 14, 2018, 10:55:50 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.

They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now

There are MLAs who are not in the DUP or SF. There is nothing stopping the assembly being convened to discuss Brexit or even the budget.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 14, 2018, 10:59:29 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.

They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now

There are MLAs who are not in the DUP or SF. There is nothing stopping the assembly being convened to discuss Brexit or even the budget.
Maybe they should turn up. And not just discuss but vote, take decisions and form an executive . I'm not sure of the rules but I think that regrettably there are constraints preventing this
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Minder on February 14, 2018, 11:05:19 PM
Universal Credit coming to SF & DUP strongholds in Belfast in the next few months, they are in no hurry
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2018, 11:10:12 PM
This is what  happens when women are in charge!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:17:57 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.

They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now

They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Minder on February 14, 2018, 11:23:49 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.

They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now

They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?

You seem to be struggling a bit yourself, they are elected to the Assembly to legislate and govern, stuff like that. They aren’t doing that. They shouldn’t be getting paid.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:28:04 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.

They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now

They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?

You seem to be struggling a bit yourself, they are elected to the Assembly to legislate and govern, stuff like that. They aren’t doing that. They shouldn’t be getting paid.
I am not suggesting they should be getting full pay but why should they not be getting any pay for operating a full time constituency service? Scrap their pay and that constituency service goes into the same dustbin as the executive went into. Scrapping the pay in total is just a silly, populist amd counter productive argument.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 14, 2018, 11:43:39 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.

They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now

They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?

You seem to be struggling a bit yourself, they are elected to the Assembly to legislate and govern, stuff like that. They aren’t doing that. They shouldn’t be getting paid.
I am not suggesting they should be getting full pay but why should they not be getting any pay for operating a full time constituency service? Scrap their pay and that constituency service goes into the same dustbin as the executive went into. Scrapping the pay in total is just a silly, populist amd counter productive argument.

There's any amount of councillors covering the same area, the people can go to them. Or go to the MP
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Snapchap on February 14, 2018, 11:56:15 PM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.

They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now

They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?

You seem to be struggling a bit yourself, they are elected to the Assembly to legislate and govern, stuff like that. They aren’t doing that. They shouldn’t be getting paid.
I am not suggesting they should be getting full pay but why should they not be getting any pay for operating a full time constituency service? Scrap their pay and that constituency service goes into the same dustbin as the executive went into. Scrapping the pay in total is just a silly, populist amd counter productive argument.

There's any amount of councillors covering the same area, the people can go to them. Or go to the MP

Indeed they can - if they want to limit the constituency service available to them to relying on part time councillors or to one MP per constituency dealing with everything on his/her own. I have no issue with MLAs receiving a salary (albeit reduced) for doing full time constituency work. Why should any public worker be expected to work full time for free?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on February 15, 2018, 12:03:10 AM
Universal Credit coming to SF & DUP strongholds in Belfast in the next few months, they are in no hurry
That is it in a nutshell minder. Alot of hurt coming so if they are not in office its not there fault. We also have brexit which SF are hoping will be bad so it will harden the support for a UI
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 12:08:45 AM
That is it in a nutshell minder. Alot of hurt coming so if they are not in office its not there fault. We also have brexit which SF are hoping will be bad so it will harden the support for a UI

If the British renege on the pre Christmas agreement re Brexit then they will have overturned the entire political dialogue since 1985 and you are in border poll territory.
Brexit may well lead to some other unfavourable adjustments, and the DUP will have been responsible for these.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on February 15, 2018, 12:11:42 AM
If the Brits are reneging on everything they'll hardly agree to a "border poll"????
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on February 15, 2018, 07:04:24 AM
The best thing that could happen is T May f**ks the whole thing up in Europe and gets the road. The DUP would then lose all the power they currently possess
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on February 15, 2018, 07:49:33 AM
It is really just a countdown on that.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 15, 2018, 07:54:39 AM
Forget Brexit forget the executive.. this will always be green and orange politics... most voters are completely blinded by this and regardless of what’s happens in the world this place will remain in the dark ages
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: sensethetone on February 15, 2018, 08:14:05 AM
Forget Brexit forget the executive.. this will always be green and orange politics... most voters are completely blinded by this and regardless of what’s happens in the world this place will remain in the dark ages

Yes and stopping MLA's pay won't change that problem. Same people will get voted back in.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 08:54:34 AM
Forget Brexit forget the executive.. this will always be green and orange politics... most voters are completely blinded by this and regardless of what’s happens in the world this place will remain in the dark ages

Yes and stopping MLA's pay won't change that problem. Same people will get voted back in.

My problem with Stormont is that as far as the DUP are concerned there is no downside to pulling the plug. They're more than happy to be ruled from Westminster and May's supply and confidence agreement.
But god forbid if the Tories pushed through same sex marriage and the ILA from Westminster and then again the DUP would have their Lundy to blame and appease their christian right and the knuckle draggers.

Eastwood was adamant that the Southern government was meant to have a say "in the spirit" of the agreement, but I can't see that happening although it may put a rocket up the DUP's arses.

On another note Simon Hamilton (who's a much more accomplished operator than Arlene) when pushed on the ILA act kept reiterating that the ILA was not acceptable to unionists and when pushed again on Radio 6 counties as to what the DUP had counter offered seemed to have no response.
Evidently the DUP were not going to have an ILA even if the Shinners were prepared to allow a standalone Ulster Scots act as part of the bigger deal.

As already stated there's a big push in unionism to deny any form of Irish culture being expressed in the wee six. They don't even like us taigs not using the term Northern Ireland for this place FFS.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on February 15, 2018, 09:09:45 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43069450

Just on equality, noteworthy that every time there are articles like this on the BBC, there are two unionist viewpoints given (Beltel and Newsletter) v 1 nationalist viewpoint (IN). BBCNI is supposed to represent the people here - yet their analysis articles are regularly skewed and propogate the notion that nationalism is being unreasonable. Part of the problem...
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2018, 09:15:59 AM
Forget Brexit forget the executive.. this will always be green and orange politics... most voters are completely blinded by this and regardless of what’s happens in the world this place will remain in the dark ages
I think it's all down to how the British do things. They tend to polarise. It is either or. Never the optimal mix. Same with languages. There was English or nothing. Always the same going back to Henry 8.

NI would be better off with a federal structure. Let Orange and green run their own affairs. No need for an ILA in Orange areas. No need for parades in Green areas.   
Focus on potential. Not on polarisation.

NI has a very interesting cultural mix that could be leveraged but it needs a different setting.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on February 15, 2018, 09:22:32 AM
Probably the best remark from a pundit last night came from David McCann who pointed out that unionist politicians had form when it came to refusing to make small concessions that would make huge differences in diffusing or improving the situation but which would be seen in hindsight as huge mistakes. 

For example, a few simple, timely concessions in late 1968 to the original Civil Rights protests and not using state force to attempt to break them would have changed history completely.  They claimed the Civil Rights movement was the IRA attempting to overthrow the state and had to be put down. We now know that only Declan Kearney believes that nonsense.

Unionist politicians always manage to revert to some bogeyman in their refusal to lose their unionist hegemony that exists purely within their own psyche.  Unionist politicians cannot move on in their own minds despite the majority of the PUL population being very far down the road from them.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on February 15, 2018, 09:25:28 AM
Unionism is just buying itself some time by continuing to say no but the anger from nationalists is palpable after yesterdays latest collapse. Arlene Foster has reawakened nationalism in a way that Paisley and Robinson failed to do and nationalists are just fed up to the back teeth of being forced to accept attempted unionist dominance and sneering.   

You would also think that Jim Allister is on a retainer from Stephen Nolan or how is an insular thinking backward bigot like him given so much air time.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Ty4Sam on February 15, 2018, 09:33:05 AM
Unionism is just buying itself some time by continuing to say no but the anger from nationalists is palpable after yesterdays latest collapse. Arlene Foster has reawakened nationalism in a way that Paisley and Robinson failed to do and nationalists are just fed up to the back teeth of being forced to accept attempted unionist dominance and sneering.   

You would also think that Jim Allister is on a retainer from Stephen Nolan or how is an insular thinking backward bigot like him given so much air time.

Allister is on Nolan for the simple reason that you just proved. He stokes the fires, causes anger/reaction and people to comment on him/Nolan thus keeping Nolan relevant. Ignore/turn off Nolan, best thing I've did in years. I haven't watched Nolan in around 2 years but I could tell you exactly how the show went last night.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 09:38:42 AM
cannot believe the assembly politicians are being paid

same as the sinn fein mps not taking their seats

They are still providing a full constituency service.

They are elected to a body that's not sitting. Stop the pay now

They still operate a full constituency service. What part of that do you struggle with?

Your right. Let each MLA submit a monthly list of achievements for their constituents and we will work out a way of paying them a rate for each achievement
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Minder on February 15, 2018, 09:40:35 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O’Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn’t sell it to their wider party and base.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 09:41:00 AM
Universal Credit coming to SF & DUP strongholds in Belfast in the next few months, they are in no hurry
That is it in a nutshell minder. Alot of hurt coming so if they are not in office its not there fault. We also have brexit which SF are hoping will be bad so it will harden the support for a UI

The worse the brexit deal is for RoI the more likely Irexit becomes. Which hardly weakens ties with U.K.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 09:41:37 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O’Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn’t sell it to their wider party and base.

That seems to be the way of it
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: magpie seanie on February 15, 2018, 09:45:37 AM
Probably the best remark from a pundit last night came from David McCann who pointed out that unionist politicians had form when it came to refusing to make small concessions that would make huge differences in diffusing or improving the situation but which would be seen in hindsight as huge mistakes. 

For example, a few simple, timely concessions in late 1968 to the original Civil Rights protests and not using state force to attempt to break them would have changed history completely.  They claimed the Civil Rights movement was the IRA attempting to overthrow the state and had to be put down. We now know that only Declan Kearney believes that nonsense.

Unionist politicians always manage to revert to some bogeyman in their refusal to lose their unionist hegemony that exists purely within their own psyche.  Unionist politicians cannot move on in their own minds despite the majority of the PUL population being very far down the road from them.


Excellent post. When it comes to the crunch unionist leaders basically do not see nationalists as equal. They cannot give up their hegemony.

The sands of time are working against them big time though. They need a different direction but are utterly incapable of doing anything about it.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 09:48:17 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43069450

Just on equality, noteworthy that every time there are articles like this on the BBC, there are two unionist viewpoints given (Beltel and Newsletter) v 1 nationalist viewpoint (IN). BBCNI is supposed to represent the people here - yet their analysis articles are regularly skewed and propogate the notion that nationalism is being unreasonable. Part of the problem...

You gotta love the Newsletter;

"The divorce is a "grim milestone for Northern Ireland", it says, but a "necessary" one.

Sinn Féin has "greatly destabilised" the region and "fuelled grievance among young nationalists".

The newspaper accuses republicans of hypocrisy, saying: "[They] hound Arlene Foster no matter what she says, yet behave in a far more disrespectful way than Mrs Foster has ever done.""


Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 09:51:29 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43069450

Just on equality, noteworthy that every time there are articles like this on the BBC, there are two unionist viewpoints given (Beltel and Newsletter) v 1 nationalist viewpoint (IN). BBCNI is supposed to represent the people here - yet their analysis articles are regularly skewed and propogate the notion that nationalism is being unreasonable. Part of the problem...

You gotta love the Newsletter;

"The divorce is a "grim milestone for Northern Ireland", it says, but a "necessary" one.

Sinn Féin has "greatly destabilised" the region and "fuelled grievance among young nationalists".

The newspaper accuses republicans of hypocrisy, saying: "[They] hound Arlene Foster no matter what she says, yet behave in a far more disrespectful way than Mrs Foster has ever done.""

Never expect anything of a pig but a grunt
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 09:53:25 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: blewuporstuffed on February 15, 2018, 09:58:44 AM
Unionism is just buying itself some time by continuing to say no but the anger from nationalists is palpable after yesterdays latest collapse. Arlene Foster has reawakened nationalism in a way that Paisley and Robinson failed to do and nationalists are just fed up to the back teeth of being forced to accept attempted unionist dominance and sneering.   

You would also think that Jim Allister is on a retainer from Stephen Nolan or how is an insular thinking backward bigot like him given so much air time.

Allister is on Nolan for the simple reason that you just proved. He stokes the fires, causes anger/reaction and people to comment on him/Nolan thus keeping Nolan relevant. Ignore/turn off Nolan, best thing I've did in years. I haven't watched Nolan in around 2 years but I could tell you exactly how the show went last night.
I've given up on Nolan now as well, and I actually think that show is part of the problem here. Its main objective seem to be to polarise people as much as possible in order to create outrage and therefore ratings.
Jim Allisters party got around 3000 votes in the last election, yet he is constantly on Nolan as if he has any sort of mandate. The same with Bryson.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: stew on February 15, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand

Whats funny is a fool who thinks his countrys Language is dying when in fact it is thriving, the Irish language will not die, it will continue to grow despite the apathy of west brits and unionists/loyalists.

I for one dont give a damn what you think of the north of Ireland, K?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on February 15, 2018, 10:05:22 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand

I agree about the language but it has now developed from that because the DUP and UUP have fallen into the usual trap where they cannot hold themselves back in denying that over 40% of the population claim to subscribe to a non-British culture that they share with the majority of people living on the island. 

So deep have unionist politicians become ensnared in this trap that they cannot see how 'unBritish' they are behaving in denying to the people of their own region of the UK the same rights as those given to the people of Wales and Scotland in terms of indigenous language and to all people in the UK in terms of same sex marriage. Yet SF have failed to bring this hypocrisy to the UK public and politicians because it suits them to be the party of protest and they need a focus.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 10:06:07 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand

So the unionists have wore you down and the white flag is up. My kids speak better Irish then me so I don’t think it’s dying. My kids are more politically informed than me at their age. They are the age were they could see a UI. Hang in there buddy the future is bright.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on February 15, 2018, 10:10:58 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand

So the unionists have wore you down and the white flag is up. My kids speak better Irish then me so I don’t think it’s dying. My kids are more politically informed than me at their age. They are the age were they could see a UI. Hang in there buddy the future is bright.

I still cannot see how any of this is going to help a UI?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on February 15, 2018, 10:17:09 AM
Did anyone see Nolan last night. Did we Jamie hint that Arlene was about to do a deal and was told by gwass whoots unionists that she wouldn't be?

I almost got the feeling that it might have been loyalists telling her!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on February 15, 2018, 10:18:09 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O’Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn’t sell it to their wider party and base.

Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: lurganblue on February 15, 2018, 10:27:05 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O’Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn’t sell it to their wider party and base.

Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.

Doesnt sound like very strong leadership
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 10:40:19 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O’Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn’t sell it to their wider party and base.

Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.

Doesnt sound like very strong leadership

Doesn't sound like leadership at all.

Arlene will be gone shortly for a died in the wool East Coast Unionist. She's giving it a good shot, but they just don't trust her.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2018, 10:41:24 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O’Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn’t sell it to their wider party and base.

Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.
second time in 3 months this has happened to Foster. Not leadership material. Maybe Fermanagh farming chair or something
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orchard park on February 15, 2018, 10:43:55 AM
the MPs calling the shots now,  Arlene ultimate puppet leader.

they dont seem to realise that their little bit of power in westminster will be so short lived
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Snapchap on February 15, 2018, 10:50:23 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand

You're everything that I find embarrassing and shameful about many in the south: an attitude of apathy for a big chunk of their own country and an attitude of open contempt for any suggestion that our native language (arguably the most intrinsic part of our cultural heritage) is worthy of protection and even an attitude that suggests a desire for the language to just die. I honestly just cannot comprehend the mentality.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 15, 2018, 10:53:56 AM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand

Who are these "most people"?
Certainly in the South where people have learned Irish for 14 years it wouldn't be a big step to massively increase the number of speakers with the right approach and encouragement. People have a lot more Irish ability than they think
 All they need is confidence and encouragement
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on February 15, 2018, 10:54:16 AM
Maybe we should use the British tactic on this one.

Instead of asking for an Irish Language act just starve everyone who speaks English until they agree to speak Irish. Would that still work?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 10:57:19 AM
Maybe I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere yesterday that Michelle O’Neill said there was a deal reached, which I would assume included some sort of ILA acceptable to SF, but the DUP couldn’t sell it to their wider party and base.

Simon Coveney said as much this morning on RTE. It's clear that Foster went back to her party and was told in no uncertain terms not to accept.
second time in 3 months this has happened to Foster. Not leadership material. Maybe Fermanagh farming chair or something

Plus dragging poor Theresa over on Monday set an expectation that Arlene couldn't deliver.

Shitting on Theresa from a great height twice in a few months can't be good for relationships.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland

DUP getting hammered in the English press
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 15, 2018, 11:04:53 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland

DUP getting hammered in the English press
Do they realise that no one on the "mainland"  gives a shite about them?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ashman on February 15, 2018, 11:10:53 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland

DUP getting hammered in the English press

The guardian !!!!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orchard park on February 15, 2018, 11:16:43 AM
when one hears the bluest of blueshirts Coveney basically saying SF had delivered a working deal it really sums up how dysfunctional the DUP are
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: TabClear on February 15, 2018, 11:30:25 AM

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland

DUP getting hammered in the English press

Gregory the bollox was on Radio Ulster earlier.  He is a hateful hoor of a man but he generally comes across as pretty articulate despite the bile he is normal spouting. HOwever, I thought he definitely seemed more defensive and rattled today.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 02:16:17 PM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand

Whats funny is a fool who thinks his countrys Language is dying when in fact it is thriving, the Irish language will not die, it will continue to grow despite the apathy of west brits and unionists/loyalists.

I for one dont give a damn what you think of the north of Ireland, K?
touchy touchy

I teach Irish, I'm a fluent speaker and I can see it dying before my eyes in the likes of connemara, mayo, kerry gaeltachts

the gaelscoil movement is a giant fallacy
majority of kids who go to gaelscoils have no meanscoil to attend afterwards - complete waste
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools

then there is nowhere to actually use the language. where can you use it?

the main reason ye seem to be mad into it up north is because it makes ye different to the other crowd
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on February 15, 2018, 02:19:32 PM
One wonders why you waste your time teaching it if you believe its a complete waste - sounds like a good way to spend the majority of your waking hours
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rois on February 15, 2018, 02:27:08 PM
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools

My sister teaches English in one of the top (east Belfast) grammar schools in the north, and said that whilst that may have been true in the past, she now sees negligible difference.
(Big caveat is that they only take top performers, so the population is skewed)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 02:33:00 PM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand

Whats funny is a fool who thinks his countrys Language is dying when in fact it is thriving, the Irish language will not die, it will continue to grow despite the apathy of west brits and unionists/loyalists.

I for one dont give a damn what you think of the north of Ireland, K?
touchy touchy

I teach Irish, I'm a fluent speaker and I can see it dying before my eyes in the likes of connemara, mayo, kerry gaeltachts

the gaelscoil movement is a giant fallacy
majority of kids who go to gaelscoils have no meanscoil to attend afterwards - complete waste
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools

then there is nowhere to actually use the language. where can you use it?

the main reason ye seem to be mad into it up north is because it makes ye different to the other crowd

Sounds like your real gripe is the Irish Language is losing interest in the south. If it’s not the case up here that’s because we hate the other ones. Wow you would fit right in up here with a chip on you like that. Maybe your boring the S..t out of them
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 15, 2018, 02:36:05 PM
One wonders why you waste your time teaching it if you believe its a complete waste - sounds like a good way to spend the majority of your waking hours
as a primary teacher I have to teach Irish
kids and parents care less and less about the language every year

the gaelscoils in many towns down here would in theory be taking in the 'cream' of middle class families so it is then worrying when their literacy scores are below average (though this info is not released to the public)
children basically have to relearn all vocab and terms in every SESE subject, maths, music
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland

DUP getting hammered in the English press
Do they realise that no one on the "mainland"  gives a shite about them?

The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 15, 2018, 02:58:53 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: general_lee on February 15, 2018, 03:03:15 PM
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools

My sister teaches English in one of the top (east Belfast) grammar schools in the north, and said that whilst that may have been true in the past, she now sees negligible difference.
(Big caveat is that they only take top performers, so the population is skewed)
My experience of children taught through Irish medium is that they have a GCSE and A level by their 3rd year in secondary school
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: lurganblue on February 15, 2018, 03:15:38 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland

DUP getting hammered in the English press

The guardian !!!!

"...the quiet truth about Northern Ireland. It is a place where most people identify as neither unionist nor nationalist."

Bullsh*t
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:16:14 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 03:18:13 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/15/dup-responsibility-government-northern-ireland

DUP getting hammered in the English press

The guardian !!!!

"...the quiet truth about Northern Ireland. It is a place where most people identify as neither unionist nor nationalist."

Bullsh*t

Yeah some of it way off the mark in fairness
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: hardstation on February 15, 2018, 03:19:17 PM
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools

My sister teaches English in one of the top (east Belfast) grammar schools in the north, and said that whilst that may have been true in the past, she now sees negligible difference.
(Big caveat is that they only take top performers, so the population is skewed)
My experience of children taught through Irish medium is that they have a GCSE and A level by their 3rd year in secondary school
Which schools are putting kids through A Level Irish by 3rd year? That’s not a great move IMO.

Rois, would your sister’s school get many pupils from Irish medium primary schools? English doesn’t seem to cause problems the same way maths does, certainly not initially. Pupils tend to find the terminology for maths difficult to learn, having never heard the word isosceles etc before.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rois on February 15, 2018, 03:30:07 PM

Rois, would your sister’s school get many pupils from Irish medium primary schools? English doesn’t seem to cause problems the same way maths does, certainly not initially. Pupils tend to find the terminology for maths difficult to learn, having never heard the word isosceles etc before.

Can understand that re: maths.  Not sure of the numbers these days and perhaps the growth and bedding in of the meanscoil in Belfast over the last couple of decades has meant fewer now attend, but she has certainly had a stream of such pupils over the years (she has been in OLSPK for 20 yrs now, give or take a maternity leave or 3).  We have had a number of discussions on this at different times (and not just about Irish speakers, but other bilingual students).
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on February 15, 2018, 03:36:37 PM

Rois, would your sister’s school get many pupils from Irish medium primary schools? English doesn’t seem to cause problems the same way maths does, certainly not initially. Pupils tend to find the terminology for maths difficult to learn, having never heard the word isosceles etc before.

Can understand that re: maths.  Not sure of the numbers these days and perhaps the growth and bedding in of the meanscoil in Belfast over the last couple of decades has meant fewer now attend, but she has certainly had a stream of such pupils over the years (she has been in OLSPK for 20 yrs now, give or take a maternity leave or 3).  We have had a number of discussions on this at different times (and not just about Irish speakers, but other bilingual students).
Getting off topic here, but would it be a case that the bilingual students pick up other languages easier at school?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on February 15, 2018, 03:37:18 PM
http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/sinn-fein-dup-deal-crashed-eamonn-mallie/

The usual utter abdication of leadership within unionism

The last line is a load of absolute horseshit tho - it wasn't the unionist people who scared off the DUP
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on February 15, 2018, 03:43:31 PM
to be honest I'm caring less and less about the north

its funny a load of people getting worked up about a dying language that most people cannot speak or understand

Whats funny is a fool who thinks his countrys Language is dying when in fact it is thriving, the Irish language will not die, it will continue to grow despite the apathy of west brits and unionists/loyalists.

I for one dont give a damn what you think of the north of Ireland, K?
touchy touchy

I teach Irish, I'm a fluent speaker and I can see it dying before my eyes in the likes of connemara, mayo, kerry gaeltachts

the gaelscoil movement is a giant fallacy
majority of kids who go to gaelscoils have no meanscoil to attend afterwards - complete waste
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools

then there is nowhere to actually use the language. where can you use it?

the main reason ye seem to be mad into it up north is because it makes ye different to the other crowd

I've heard some give out about no ILA even though they can't speak a word of Irish. It's all about attacking the DUP.

Slaughtneil seem to be doing things the right way. Only because of their onfield success have we probably become aware of their love of the language. Not sure if they have road signs or if they converse in Irish with each other all the time, but they obviously started with the love of it rather than learning it just to piss the other side off.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 03:54:21 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

I'm not claiming that everybody in NI is British but the people I was referring to undoubtedly are
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:00:17 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB

NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: general_lee on February 15, 2018, 04:15:20 PM
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools

My sister teaches English in one of the top (east Belfast) grammar schools in the north, and said that whilst that may have been true in the past, she now sees negligible difference.
(Big caveat is that they only take top performers, so the population is skewed)
My experience of children taught through Irish medium is that they have a GCSE and A level by their 3rd year in secondary school
Which schools are putting kids through A Level Irish by 3rd year? That’s not a great move IMO.
Why not? What use is putting them in a first year irish class which is of no benefit when they can go to a gcse/a-level class instead? It was the same for a student that had spent most of their childhood in France. An extra gcse/a level in French  with little to no effort
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:17:04 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB

NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not

Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit, once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can’t have an Irish act. It’s Crazy
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 04:18:49 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB

NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not

Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can’t have an Irish act. It’s Crazy

You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: hardstation on February 15, 2018, 04:24:54 PM
the literacy standards of children coming out of primary gaelscoils is significantly lower than English medium achools

My sister teaches English in one of the top (east Belfast) grammar schools in the north, and said that whilst that may have been true in the past, she now sees negligible difference.
(Big caveat is that they only take top performers, so the population is skewed)
My experience of children taught through Irish medium is that they have a GCSE and A level by their 3rd year in secondary school
Which schools are putting kids through A Level Irish by 3rd year? That’s not a great move IMO.
Why not? What use is putting them in a first year irish class which is of no benefit when they can go to a gcse/a-level class instead? It was the same for a student that had spent most of their childhood in France. An extra gcse/a level in French  with little to no effort

While they may have a good enough level of Irish for A Level, it takes a certain level of maturity to be able to grasp and express opinion on the themes. 13/14 year olds would find it very difficult IMO. As well as that, an A Level taken early is redundant if applying for university in the south, I believe.
Again, I don’t know of any school that does this, mainly for the reason I have given. The format is usually - 3rd year GCSE Irish, 5th year GCSE Gaeilge and A Level as normal.

Not that we were discussing the merits of either system, you said it was your experience that kids were getting their A Level by 3rd year. I was surprised at this and asked which school was doing this.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB

NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not

Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can’t have an Irish act. It’s Crazy

You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?

Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it’s doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 15, 2018, 04:33:41 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43069450

Just on equality, noteworthy that every time there are articles like this on the BBC, there are two unionist viewpoints given (Beltel and Newsletter) v 1 nationalist viewpoint (IN). BBCNI is supposed to represent the people here - yet their analysis articles are regularly skewed and propogate the notion that nationalism is being unreasonable. Part of the problem...

You gotta love the Newsletter;

"The divorce is a "grim milestone for Northern Ireland", it says, but a "necessary" one.

Sinn Féin has "greatly destabilised" the region and "fuelled grievance among young nationalists".

The newspaper accuses republicans of hypocrisy, saying: "[They] hound Arlene Foster no matter what she says, yet behave in a far more disrespectful way than Mrs Foster has ever done.""

Never expect anything of a pig but a grunt

Ah, the North Down bigot Ben Lowry. He was on Talkback this morning and he flat out blamed the Shinners alone for the state of the health service. Maybe William Crawley will get round to asking this little oxygen thief why he left - or should that be why he was asked to leave - the Belfast Telegraph...
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on February 15, 2018, 04:53:05 PM
Heard that - he came across like a right p***k

You should let us all know - pm me if you cant broadcast it
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on February 15, 2018, 05:52:32 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB

NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not

Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can’t have an Irish act. It’s Crazy

You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?

Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it’s doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there
From the man previously "getting anal about the whole thing".
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 06:20:39 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB

NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not

Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can’t have an Irish act. It’s Crazy

You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?

Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it’s doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there

During that belated confession you do realise you were still typing??
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 06:47:33 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB

NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not

Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can’t have an Irish act. It’s Crazy

You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?

Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it’s doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there
From the man previously "getting anal about the whole thing".

Yeah fight fire with fire

The different between Great Britain and Britain FFs
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Minder on February 15, 2018, 06:52:34 PM
So there was agreement on ILA but not SSM according to McDonald
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 15, 2018, 06:57:38 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB

NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not

Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit, once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can’t have an Irish act. It’s Crazy

Finchley? We did a refurb on a house in Finchley. More Star of Davids then Union Jacks.
But the grub they laid on was gorgeous.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on February 15, 2018, 06:58:23 PM
They could have taken it out, removed petition of concern and the same sex marriage thing would go through.

No petition of concern and dup struggle too which i am sure they know.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 15, 2018, 07:30:36 PM
The majority of them do. The majority of unionist politicians do. But there is a powerful minority of voters that believe that they are as British as Finchley ( which they are) and that the people of Finchley care a jot about them (which they don't)

Finchley is actually in Britain, its people are intrinsically British and so the people in NI are not British in that way, however much they try to convince themselves.

Correct the north of Ireland is not Part of GB

NI is not in GB. Nobody said it was. It is however in the U.K. If your from the UK, entitled to a Uk passport and want to call yourself British it would be hard to argue that your not

Front of a U K passport says Britain and Northern Ireland so no one over here is as British as Finchley
As for the U K bit once the Brexit deals are implemented the UK is doomed but for the time being your right. ( ok honey)
The irony is given the subject at hand, Wales and Scotland have languages acts and they are British. We have dual citizenship and we can’t have an Irish act. It’s Crazy

You do know that British doesn't mean from Great Britain?

Yeah one is inclusive of Wales and England only but anyone that highlights that is nitpicking in the context of most conservation
I also know that the the Union Jack can be flown upside down
I always check them when passing areas they are flown
But you know it’s doesnt really matter i get what there trying to say
Not much point in getting anal about the whole thing is there
From the man previously "getting anal about the whole thing".

Yeah fight fire with fire

The different between Great Britain and Britain FFs

You still don't get it do you?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 15, 2018, 07:38:50 PM
Gregory let off lightly on radio 6 counties this evening when he said there was no provisional agreement to discuss over the weekend and then when asked confessed he hadn't been involved in the negotiations for two weeks.....
He also got away when accusing the Shinners for bringing the institutions down but he should have been asked why the DUP had the gift of getting them back up this week but rejected the proposal so they weren't so concerned about health, education and infrastructure either..
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 15, 2018, 08:24:31 PM
Gregory let off lightly on radio 6 counties this evening when he said there was no provisional agreement to discuss over the weekend and then when asked confessed he hadn't been involved in the negotiations for two weeks.....
He also got away when accusing the Shinners for bringing the institutions down but he should have been asked why the DUP had the gift of getting them back up this week but rejected the proposal so they weren't so concerned about health, education and infrastructure either..

It Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Fionntamhnach on February 15, 2018, 08:44:03 PM
It Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs May went over here to talk more about Brexit and border issues with Varadkar with the talks between SF & DUP as a convenient cover.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 15, 2018, 08:49:32 PM
It Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs May went over here to talk more about Brexit and border issues with Varadkar with the talks between SF & DUP as a convenient cover.

That has been speculated on all right.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 15, 2018, 09:26:42 PM
It Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs May went over here to talk more about Brexit and border issues with Varadkar with the talks between SF & DUP as a convenient cover.

That has been speculated on all right.

What would you know about it?  Are they allowing you access to newspapers now?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 15, 2018, 09:34:57 PM
Gregory let off lightly on radio 6 counties this evening when he said there was no provisional agreement to discuss over the weekend and then when asked confessed he hadn't been involved in the negotiations for two weeks.....
He also got away when accusing the Shinners for bringing the institutions down but he should have been asked why the DUP had the gift of getting them back up this week but rejected the proposal so they weren't so concerned about health, education and infrastructure either..
No provisional agreement but maybe there was an official one
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 15, 2018, 09:54:09 PM
Gregory let off lightly on radio 6 counties this evening when he said there was no provisional agreement to discuss over the weekend and then when asked confessed he hadn't been involved in the negotiations for two weeks.....
He also got away when accusing the Shinners for bringing the institutions down but he should have been asked why the DUP had the gift of getting them back up this week but rejected the proposal so they weren't so concerned about health, education and infrastructure either..
No provisional agreement but maybe there was an official one
That's a sticky situation you are getting in to
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on February 15, 2018, 10:39:57 PM
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed  to be shown down south. Who does that suit.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trileacman on February 15, 2018, 10:45:23 PM
DUP obviously feel an election would serve them better as SF would probably not be able to repeat such a successful campaign straight off the bat. They’re in perfect position to mop up unionist concerns about the strength of the nationalist vote and tbh unionist paranoia hasn’t been at such a peak for 20 years I’d say. This is mainly due to antagonism around brexit and the border amongst other issues.

They’re judging that a fresh election would probably strengthen their seat count and the only other alternative to that is Westminster in which they now hold sway would take over the reins in NI. They may be cnuts but they’re not stupid.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trileacman on February 15, 2018, 10:47:40 PM
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed  to be shown down south. Who does that suit.

Condescending talk to free-staters is a long-cherished unionist past time.

As for RTÉ, papers  not refusing ink is the anaiogy that springs to mind.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on February 15, 2018, 11:00:27 PM
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed  to be shown down south. Who does that suit.

It's because she refuses to speak to the BBC so the BBC uses RTE to get the video.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 15, 2018, 11:02:09 PM
It Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs May went over here to talk more about Brexit and border issues with Varadkar with the talks between SF & DUP as a convenient cover.

That has been speculated on all right.

What would you know about it?  Are they allowing you access to newspapers now?

I'm still getting over the shock that someone in Finchley would let a complete arsehole like you into their house. They're probably still trying to get the shit out of the carpet
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Therealdonald on February 15, 2018, 11:11:20 PM
It's just took an even bigger turn, Jamie Bryson is heading to Westminster
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: longballin on February 15, 2018, 11:16:13 PM
Is no secret DUP quietly meet with Bryson during negotiations... madness but that's where it is at.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 15, 2018, 11:17:11 PM
Bryson another unemployable waste of space!! How this man even gets talk time on nolan show and radio is beyond me
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trileacman on February 15, 2018, 11:18:58 PM
Have you seen the rest of the Nolan Show audience/commentators?? Bryson looks like Henry Kissinger in their company.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on February 16, 2018, 12:30:33 AM
Have you seen the rest of the Nolan Show audience/commentators?? Bryson looks like Henry Kissinger in their company.

I think he has Allister, Bryson and Nelson McCausland on speed dial. The more extremist the better for Nolans ratings which is his sole concern, that's why he engages with them constantly.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 16, 2018, 07:36:58 AM
It Seems going by the press an agreement was in place with consent from both parties. What happened or who pulled rank. It was strange May flew from London with an outcome like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs May went over here to talk more about Brexit and border issues with Varadkar with the talks between SF & DUP as a convenient cover.

That has been speculated on all right.

What would you know about it?  Are they allowing you access to newspapers now?

I'm still getting over the shock that someone in Finchley would let a complete arsehole like you into their house. They're probably still trying to get the shit out of the carpet
You mean you are getting over the shock that you are now down to three nappies a day
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BenDover on February 16, 2018, 08:57:06 AM
Have you seen the rest of the Nolan Show audience/commentators?? Bryson looks like Henry Kissinger in their company.

I think he has Allister, Bryson and Nelson McCausland on speed dial. The more extremist the better for Nolans ratings which is his sole concern, that's why he engages with them constantly.
When I see either of these bigots on Nolan - I switch off they repeat the same mantra time and again. Bryson going to Westminster indicates how bad things have become. Would stopping the salaries at this point even have any effect?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 16, 2018, 09:27:10 AM
Have you seen the rest of the Nolan Show audience/commentators?? Bryson looks like Henry Kissinger in their company.

I think he has Allister, Bryson and Nelson McCausland on speed dial. The more extremist the better for Nolans ratings which is his sole concern, that's why he engages with them constantly.
When I see either of these bigots on Nolan - I switch off they repeat the same mantra time and again. Bryson going to Westminster indicates how bad things have become. Would stopping the salaries at this point even have any effect?

What's Jamiwe going to do over in Westminster?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rois on February 16, 2018, 09:57:46 AM

What's Jamiwe going to do over in Westminster?
Just heard him on Nolan there now.  He responded to a public invite for submissions on finding new and innovative solutions to devolved government here on behalf of some unionist group.  To be fair to him, other people could have also responded and got an invite but didn't.  I think it is sheer coincidence that it has come up now.

As to his contribution, he will be arguing for a repeal of the GFA.  Yep, very innovative and welcoming.  Oh and he refused to condemn loyalist paramilitaries.  What a peach. 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Shamrock Shore on February 16, 2018, 10:06:53 AM
Christ. When who lets that gimp Bryson out? FFS - he's been on Prime Time recently. What a jumped-up little p***k with no mandate for his ravings.

Hate to think the ballbag would have got some of my license money to appear on RTE.

As for Foster. Sweet Jesus. When the Lord made her he broke the mould. Thankfully.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: naka on February 16, 2018, 10:12:44 AM
DUP obviously feel an election would serve them better as SF would probably not be able to repeat such a successful campaign straight off the bat. They’re in perfect position to mop up unionist concerns about the strength of the nationalist vote and tbh unionist paranoia hasn’t been at such a peak for 20 years I’d say. This is mainly due to antagonism around brexit and the border amongst other issues.

They’re judging that a fresh election would probably strengthen their seat count and the only other alternative to that is Westminster in which they now hold sway would take over the reins in NI. They may be cnuts but they’re not stupid.
funnily enough I think the shinners mightn't be too disappointed by an election, the way the irish language has been dished  by the unionists will give them a fair hand to play with.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 16, 2018, 10:33:58 AM
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed  to be shown down south. Who does that suit.

It's because she refuses to speak to the BBC so the BBC uses RTE to get the video.
She is in cahoots with Mickey Harte. Arlene talks directly to the RTE sports Department.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: sensethetone on February 16, 2018, 11:54:26 AM
Snarlene talking to RTE again. Must be a policy so that the interview will be guaranteed  to be shown down south. Who does that suit.

It's because she refuses to speak to the BBC so the BBC uses RTE to get the video.
She is in cahoots with Mickey Harte. Arlene talks directly to the RTE sports Department.

She'd do well on Ear To The Ground, them's big ears.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 16, 2018, 09:05:22 PM
Bilingual signs are a threat to Britishness!




Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on February 17, 2018, 09:59:42 AM
Sort those picture sizes out!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: manfromdelmonte on February 17, 2018, 10:08:24 AM
everyone should print them out and send them to Arlene
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 17, 2018, 10:25:37 AM
everyone should print them out and send them to Arlene
Selah.

Bean O Foster
Inis Ceithleann
Co. Fearmanach should get her
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ONeill on February 17, 2018, 10:33:16 AM
Probably wouldn't.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 17, 2018, 08:08:26 PM
Sort those picture sizes out!

Better?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: OgraAnDun on February 17, 2018, 09:31:15 PM
Sort those picture sizes out!

Better?

Far superior.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ziggysego on February 17, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/

So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................

I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.

Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: screenexile on February 19, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/

So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................

I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.

Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.

I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.

McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 19, 2018, 12:24:58 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/

So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................

I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.

Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.

I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.

McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!

Agreed,
    she couldn't get it through with the knuckle draggers like Gregory and co not to mention Jamwie and the loyalist gwass woots.

She'll be thrown under the bus by someone else in the party soon enough.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: GJL on February 19, 2018, 12:35:30 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/

So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................

I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.

Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.

I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.

McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!

Agreed,
    she couldn't get it through with the knuckle draggers like Gregory and co not to mention Jamwie and the loyalist gwass woots.

She'll be thrown under the bus by someone else in the party soon enough.

Problem is who ever takes over faces the same sh1t. It all come down to keeping the votes.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ziggysego on February 19, 2018, 12:53:43 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/

So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................

I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.

Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.

I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.

McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!

I agree.

Gregory Campbell was missing from talks for 10 days, because he was ill.

An agreement was reached. Gregory came back on the scene again and the agreement was scuppered.

What's the correlation here?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on February 19, 2018, 01:10:48 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/

So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................

I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.

Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.

I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.

McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!

I agree.

Gregory Campbell was missing from talks for 10 days, because he was ill.

An agreement was reached. Gregory came back on the scene again and the agreement was scuppered.

What's the correlation here?

I can’t think of another person who is filled with as much hate and contempt for anything Irish or nationalist than this man.
Ian Paisley sr of old wouldn’t compare to him
He would be behind a Coup d'état no problem if it was  a compromise with nationalist for the greater good. 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: The Trap on February 19, 2018, 01:17:12 PM
Gregory has a Catholic son in law!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ONARAGGATIP on February 19, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
Gregory has a Catholic son in law!

irrelevant, it is a question of national identity not religion.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Targetman on February 19, 2018, 01:33:38 PM
Gregory has a Catholic son in law!

irrelevant, it is a question of national identity not religion.
I’d say he gets the same treatment as Tommy Tiernan’s character in Derry Girls!!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on February 19, 2018, 01:43:25 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/

So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................

I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.

Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.

I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.

McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
I agree with this. Look at the way Adams and McGuinness led republicans.
Provos stood down
Decommision
Sitting in stormont
Acceptance of principle of consent
Acceptance of partition
Adminsterting British rule under the union flag at the gates stormont.

All sold as ‘stepping stones’ to ultimate victory.     

ie. defeat dressed up as victory.

Unionists leaders can’t even deliver British rights to people here for fear of feeling less British
Fionnaula O Connor once wrote that republicans are great at making their people think they have won when they have lost with the opposite being the case for unionists.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: MoChara on February 19, 2018, 02:05:36 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/

So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................

I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.

Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.

I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.

McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
I agree with this. Look at the way Adams and McGuinness led republicans.
Provos stood down
Decommision
Sitting in stormont
Acceptance of principle of consent
Acceptance of partition
Adminsterting British rule under the union flag at the gates stormont.

All sold as ‘stepping stones’ to ultimate victory.     

ie. defeat dressed up as victory.

Unionists leaders can’t even deliver British rights to people here for fear of feeling less British
Fionnaula O Connor once wrote that republicans are great at making their people think they have won when they have lost with the opposite being the case for unionists.


Maybe that's all Arlene needs to do, sign the agreement and then get a black taxi up the Shankill tooting the horn and waving the flag.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on February 19, 2018, 02:15:13 PM
NEW LIGHT SHONE ON DRAFT AGREEMENT – By Eamonn Mallie

http://eamonnmallie.com/2018/02/new-light-shone-draft-agreement-eamonn-mallie/

So Arlene as part of this iterative process emailed Mary-Lou and Co a proposal which had an free standing Irish language act BU she didn't agree to it....................

I'd have thought you wouldn't have emailed anyone a proposal with anything you weren't happy with especially your adversaries, iterative process or not.

Hard to see Arlene lasting much longer now.

I think Arlene was OK with it but when the proposal went back to the headbangers it was a complete no no. . . she's been shown up as a very weak leader in this whole saga.

McGuinness and Adams have had to give in on many things but were always able to get their people on board the DUP don't have the leadership to get things done anymore!
I agree with this. Look at the way Adams and McGuinness led republicans.
Provos stood down
Decommision
Sitting in stormont
Acceptance of principle of consent
Acceptance of partition
Adminsterting British rule under the union flag at the gates stormont.

All sold as ‘stepping stones’ to ultimate victory.     

ie. defeat dressed up as victory.

Unionists leaders can’t even deliver British rights to people here for fear of feeling less British
Fionnaula O Connor once wrote that republicans are great at making their people think they have won when they have lost with the opposite being the case for unionists.


Maybe that's all Arlene needs to do, sign the agreement and then get a black taxi up the Shankill tooting the horn and waving the flag.
;D A Unionist leader wouldn't even know where to get a black taxi! 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on February 19, 2018, 07:10:45 PM
https://twitter.com/conormaskey/status/965635949869887495
 ;D
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orior on February 19, 2018, 09:13:02 PM
You guys need to listen more to Ruth Dudley Edwards. I'll summarise for you:

1) Every Unionist is a saint, and bend over backwards to accommodate roman catholics
2) Roman catholic should appreciate the freedom they have in northern ireland
3) Gerry Adams is the devil incarnate
4) All Sinn Fein voters are numbskull sheep
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: charlieTully on February 19, 2018, 10:26:10 PM
You guys need to listen more to Ruth Dudley Edwards. I'll summarise for you:

1) Every Unionist is a saint, and bend over backwards to accommodate roman catholics
2) Roman catholic should appreciate the freedom they have in northern ireland
3) Gerry Adams is the devil incarnate
4) All Sinn Fein voters are numbskull sheep


Sounds like syfurus
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 19, 2018, 10:43:54 PM
I don't listen to jackeens
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: MoChara on February 20, 2018, 08:11:23 AM
https://twitter.com/conormaskey/status/965635949869887495
 ;D

Class it's almost like she a big self serving eejit  ;D
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: blewuporstuffed on February 20, 2018, 10:29:11 AM
https://twitter.com/conormaskey/status/965635949869887495
 ;D

Class it's almost like she a big self serving eejit  ;D
It will be interesting to hear her backtrack out of that one
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 10:18:26 AM
I rarely agree with Malachi O'Doherty but it's hard to counter this analysis of where unionism is now:

=====================================================================================

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/union-can-only-be-saved-by-showing-respect-for-irishness-malachi-odoherty-36625353.html

Arguably the stupidest mistake made by a unionist was Gregory Campbell's speech to his party conference in which he said that the DUP would treat Sinn Fein's wish-list like toilet paper.  I can imagine people in the Sinn Fein strategy team watching that and saying: Gotcha!

Campbell had broken one of the simpler rules of politics - never say never. He committed his party to never conceding anything to Sinn Fein on the Irish language and treating with contempt their aspiration to have an Irish Language Act.  From that moment on Sinn Fein had it in its power to humiliate the DUP by getting it to climb down from that proud boast, or to break it.  This fits with the DUP's understanding of the Trojan Horse theory expounded by Gerry Adams, by which the equality agenda is presented as a tactic to undermine unionism.

But the thing about Trojan Horses is that the gates of Troy have to be opened for them.  And Campbell and others in the DUP leadership effectively opened the gates, invited the horse to come in and walk around, presuming they'd be able to chase it away again.  Because, by the logic of the Good Friday Agreement and power-sharing, Sinn Fein needs the DUP as much as the DUP needs Sinn Fein. This has been a calamitous misreading in the situation by unionists.

Sinn Fein is a bigger and more extensive party than the DUP.  Yes, the DUP vote thrives on contention every bit as much as the Sinn Fein vote does. The logic of that is that contention serves both well but ultimately drives them apart. Therefore, in time both have to get on. Both lose if they don't. But the DUP loses more than Sinn Fein does.  The DUP, if it loses Stormont, keeps six councils of the 11 in Northern Ireland and 10 seats in Westminster.  The seats in Westminster have huge value for now because the DUP is indispensable to shoring up the Tory Government.  But that advantage could be gone by Christmas and might not come back for another 20 years.  The party currently has a seat in the European Parliament but is determined to be rid of it.  So, without Stormont the DUP will have very little.

Contrast that with Sinn Fein's position.  It has a clutch of councils in the west of Northern Ireland. It has seven seats in Westminster but doesn't take them. It will continue after Brexit to have representation in the European Parliament through the Irish Republic, where it also has councillors, TDs and senators.  Compare Sinn Fein's position in the Dail with the DUP's in Westminster. Currently Sinn Fein is polling at 20% of the vote down there. It stands a good chance of being in government; not a great chance, but not a negligible one. What prospect is there that the DUP will have seats at the Cabinet table in Westminster? None.  It will be outside looking in if one day a British Secretary of State is sitting down with a Sinn Fein Tanaiste to discuss repairing devolution. Couldn't happen?

So, while it looks as if we have a deadlock that damages both parties equally, Sinn Fein has such a broad base and so many platforms that it can more easily sustain the loss of Stormont than the DUP can.  This hasn't sunk in with people who still think in terms of majority and minority communities in Northern Ireland and always calculate on the assumption that unionism has more clout than nationalism.  That's how it used to be.  Sinn Fein does not only have more platforms than the DUP, it has a hand to play.  It will now focus on opposing direct rule and Brexit.  And it knows also that these positions will appeal beyond the voter base.

Northern nationalists do not like the DUP. They feel that the DUP gave no consideration to protecting their Irish identity inside the European Union, the one structure that gave it parity with Britishness.  And since the border is now back at the heart of political dispute, the last thing many nationalists want is for the DUP to hold power in Northern Ireland or be in a position to represent Northern Ireland in talks with Europe.  And this is bigger than Sinn Fein. People who will never vote Sinn Fein are turning their backs on power-sharing because they don't want to be even part-governed by the DUP.

So what can the DUP do to win them back, for win them back it must?  The Union is not secure if only the Protestant community wants it, because the demographic shift is rapidly eroding a Protestant majority.  The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it.  And that was not such a hard job until very recently.  At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state.  A civic unionism might have acknowledged that silent assent.  But a unionism which pegged its commitment to evangelical religion and the monarchy was never going to bring significant numbers of that community out of the closet to declare their preference for the United Kingdom over a united Ireland.  There was a time when unionism could indulge the fantasy that it was a bulwark against religious heresy, when the Orange banner symbolised loyalty.

But what is a unionist to be loyal to now? To a retrenched evangelical culture which can lose them the Union, or to the Union itself, which it can only hold onto with confidence by including Catholics and respecting Irishness?  And even that might be a hopeless pipe-dream now, depending on the outworking of Brexit. If it goes badly for British-Irish relations, then it will go badly for nationalist-unionist relations in Northern Ireland.  This isn't to say that there can be a united Ireland very soon, though more people are now talking up that prospect than before.  I suspect that if Labour comes to power, direct rule will take a colouring much more to Sinn Fein's taste. I think Corbyn might prove perfectly obliging when asked for a border poll.
 Though if his own prospects fall on a refusal of Sinn Fein to take their seats, he'd hardly be daft enough to think he owed them favours.

Sinn Fein does lose out after last week's collapse. The LGBT community now sees that giving their vote to Sinn Fein got them nothing, and if there is an election they may pay for the betrayal of those hopes.  But it is unionism that seems bereft of a vision today. It is unionism that must rethink its entire prospects if it is to have any significance at all.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Dire Ear on February 21, 2018, 11:57:18 AM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 12:06:46 PM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.

Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?

I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.


Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: NAG1 on February 21, 2018, 12:10:15 PM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.

Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?

I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.

SF especially among their young activists seem to be making a massive push in this sector of the electorate.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orior on February 21, 2018, 12:46:56 PM
Rules of the plantation were that natives dropped Irish and carried out business in the invading tongue.

Seems like 400 years later the plantation is still an ongoing process.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Minder on February 21, 2018, 01:25:52 PM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.

Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?

I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.

SF especially among their young activists seem to be making a massive push in this sector of the electorate.

It needs to be more than hash tags and billboards though (all non unionist parties are the same btw), when hardy came to hardy SF seemed comfortable enough with no SSM
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on February 21, 2018, 02:23:08 PM
Redundance of petition of concern in reformed stormont meant it was pretty much guaranteed to go through anyway, no?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: GJL on February 21, 2018, 02:27:49 PM
Redundance of petition of concern in reformed stormont meant it was pretty much guaranteed to go through anyway, no?

POC still exists. Needs backing from more than one party. So in theory the 28 DUPers plus 2 others could raise a POC against equal marriage.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: TabClear on February 21, 2018, 02:31:21 PM
Redundance of petition of concern in reformed stormont meant it was pretty much guaranteed to go through anyway, no?

POC still exists. Needs backing from more than one party. So in theory the 28 DUPers plus 2 others could raise a POC against equal marriage.

Jim Allister pretty much a given
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ned on February 21, 2018, 03:46:42 PM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.

Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?

I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.

There's plenty wrong with that. The fact that article is in The Telegraph should lead you to be sceptical of it's content.

This paragraph;
"The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it.  And that was not such a hard job until very recently.  At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state."

Now that is some claim. Just because you work for the institutions does not mean support for the union. That is taking a fact and stretching it far away from the reality.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on February 21, 2018, 03:57:13 PM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.

Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?

I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.

There's plenty wrong with that. The fact that article is in The Telegraph should lead you to be sceptical of it's content.

This paragraph;
"The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it.  And that was not such a hard job until very recently.  At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state."

Now that is some claim. Just because you work for the institutions does not mean support for the union. That is taking a fact and stretching it far away from the reality.

You mightn't support the Union itself but loads of Catholics support the status quo, it's not exactly the same thing.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2018, 04:00:42 PM
You mightn't support the Union itself but loads of Catholics support the status quo, it's not exactly the same thing.

This is the mistake they made with Brexit by making the status quo chaotic.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 21, 2018, 04:14:59 PM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.

Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?

I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.

There's plenty wrong with that. The fact that article is in The Telegraph should lead you to be sceptical of it's content.

This paragraph;
"The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it.  And that was not such a hard job until very recently.  At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state."

Now that is some claim. Just because you work for the institutions does not mean support for the union. That is taking a fact and stretching it far away from the reality.

You mightn't support the Union itself but loads of Catholics support the status quo, it's not exactly the same thing.

The "middle ground" who would be nationalist with a small n and unionist with a small w will always be driven by economic realities.
An economically well off Catholic isn't going to suddenly insist on a border poll if all's well with the world and I think that's the point Malachi is trying to make.

Unionism/loyalism in its current trajectory is driving those people into the arms of the Shinners.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ned on February 21, 2018, 05:43:11 PM
Malachi can't help himself with the hatred of SF, even at the end of that piece.

Not much wrong with that article in fairness, but does Malachi think the LGBT community voted en mass for the Shinners on the strength of them wanting same sex marriage legalised?

I'd have thought Alliance was the LGBT communities main ally.

There's plenty wrong with that. The fact that article is in The Telegraph should lead you to be sceptical of it's content.

This paragraph;
"The only way to save the Union is to convert Catholics to it.  And that was not such a hard job until very recently.  At least a third of the Catholic, nominally nationalist, community lived content with the Union. They worked in the Civil Service and the institutions of state."

Now that is some claim. Just because you work for the institutions does not mean support for the union. That is taking a fact and stretching it far away from the reality.

You mightn't support the Union itself but loads of Catholics support the status quo, it's not exactly the same thing.

It's still a conclusion arrived at with no clear facts. "Content with the union" and supporting the status quo are different things. Has there ever been a poll regarding this? As I said plenty wrong with that article.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2018, 05:47:41 PM
The "middle ground" who would be nationalist with a small n and unionist with a small w will always be driven by economic realities.
An economically well off Catholic isn't going to suddenly insist on a border poll if all's well with the world and I think that's the point Malachi is trying to make.

Unionism/loyalism in its current trajectory is driving those people into the arms of the Shinners.

Not quite the Shinners, Leo Varadkar, perhaps.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 21, 2018, 06:04:09 PM
Was it slurred? She looks to me like someone who's been hitting the sauce of late
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2018, 06:13:28 PM
Was it slurred? She looks to me like someone who's been hitting the sauce of late

I'd say Theresa May must be tempted to knock a few back at this stage.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on February 21, 2018, 06:28:20 PM
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Move forward! !!!
DUPUDA? ?
Maybe to 1697 perhaps  >:(
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on February 21, 2018, 06:37:05 PM
We will move forward.*

*without anything relating to an irish identity about the place.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 21, 2018, 06:42:09 PM
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Move forward! !!!
DUPUDA? ?
Maybe to 1697 perhaps  >:(

Doesn't really matter, she's an irrelevance, a mediocre solicitor from the sticks way out of her league with no discernible role now that Stormont is finito. If she doesn't throw the towel in, the findings of the RHI Inquiry will in all likelihood finish her, such was her ineptitude in the handling of that farce from the very start (not to mention the benefits accrued from it by members of her family in Fermanagh). As I said before, Brexit and demographics will sort the rest out for the Irish people of the putrid statelet ... tick tock, tick tock
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2018, 07:01:21 PM
We will move forward


Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on February 21, 2018, 07:41:35 PM
There are no preconditions on restoring power at stormont you know :o
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 09:35:45 AM
Very good analysis by Denis Bradley

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/denis-bradley-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-unionism-1.3398989

"The Rev John Dunlop, once moderator of the Presbyterian Church, wrote more than 20 years ago: “We are a people who live behind spiritual, political and ecclesiastical ramparts. We behave like batsmen facing hostile fast bowling on an uneven pitch: more concerned to survive than to win the match; playing for a draw at best; always defensive; seldom taking the initiative.”

He also said at the time of the IRA ceasefire that the unionist community was not ready, prepared or happy with the beginning peace. He believed it was psychologically prepared to endure the violence rather than engage with republicans."

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: stew on February 22, 2018, 09:47:06 AM
Very good analysis by Denis Bradley

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/denis-bradley-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-unionism-1.3398989

"The Rev John Dunlop, once moderator of the Presbyterian Church, wrote more than 20 years ago: “We are a people who live behind spiritual, political and ecclesiastical ramparts. We behave like batsmen facing hostile fast bowling on an uneven pitch: more concerned to survive than to win the match; playing for a draw at best; always defensive; seldom taking the initiative.”

He also said at the time of the IRA ceasefire that the unionist community was not ready, prepared or happy with the beginning peace. He believed it was psychologically prepared to endure the violence rather than engage with republicans."

John Dunlop is a very astute man, and the unionist/loyalist parties sow fear and negativity to their constituents and they in turn, believe the lies and bile they are fed, perpetual negativity is the best they can hope for, how sad and ignorant is that!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on February 22, 2018, 10:34:35 AM
Very good analysis by Denis Bradley

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/denis-bradley-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-unionism-1.3398989

"The Rev John Dunlop, once moderator of the Presbyterian Church, wrote more than 20 years ago: “We are a people who live behind spiritual, political and ecclesiastical ramparts. We behave like batsmen facing hostile fast bowling on an uneven pitch: more concerned to survive than to win the match; playing for a draw at best; always defensive; seldom taking the initiative.”

He also said at the time of the IRA ceasefire that the unionist community was not ready, prepared or happy with the beginning peace. He believed it was psychologically prepared to endure the violence rather than engage with republicans."

John Dunlop is a very astute man, and the unionist/loyalist parties sow fear and negativity to their constituents and they in turn, believe the lies and bile they are fed, perpetual negativity is the best they can hope for, how sad and ignorant is that!

Good analysis, the politicians control the working class by whipping them into a frenzy if they perceive of any threat to their Britishness. Then you have the Jim Allister show...errr sorry Stephen Nolan which is like Jerry Springer laden with extremist outside commentators such as Bryson, Dudley Edwards, McCaulsand etc and which has the sole aim of increasing its ratings irrespective of whether or not it stokes the flames or whips the masses up even more. Unionism has always needed to feel scared and under threat in order to survive, it is constantly in damage limitation mode simply trying to delay the inevitable end game for as long as possible. 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnneycool on February 22, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."

Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.

The impact of Brexit could have a telling effect on this particular grouping, but to answer the question as to who should be doing the persuading it really has to be the sitting Irish Government of the day.

Neither FF and FG have grasped this particular nettle, only playing around the fringes of being true nationalists and allowing the Shinners to own this space.

If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 11:14:58 AM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."

Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.

The impact of Brexit could have a telling effect on this particular grouping, but to answer the question as to who should be doing the persuading it really has to be the sitting Irish Government of the day.

Neither FF and FG have grasped this particular nettle, only playing around the fringes of being true nationalists and allowing the Shinners to own this space.

If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?
It would have to be planned to take advantage of the positives.  The status of the unionist population would have to he clear. If it was done properly it could fly 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 22, 2018, 11:17:02 AM

Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.

This isn't easily achieved because the 6 counties is so unproductive.


Quote
If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?

See above. People in the 26 counties would welcome unity, but not having to pay to fix up the place. The British should be expected to leave the place in working order so that people can concentrate on the politics, not funding the place.

Pre Brexit I think the feeling generally would have been that the time had not yet come, a further decade would be needed and the economy needed to recover in any case. As always though the British are fecking things up for their own selfish reasons.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on February 22, 2018, 12:28:27 PM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."

Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.

The impact of Brexit could have a telling effect on this particular grouping, but to answer the question as to who should be doing the persuading it really has to be the sitting Irish Government of the day.

Neither FF and FG have grasped this particular nettle, only playing around the fringes of being true nationalists and allowing the Shinners to own this space.

If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?

Agree with this 100%. Sinn Fein will always be the bogeymen with many Unionists so the onus is on the Irish government to persuade.

In this respect Miceal Martin and Fianna Fail, the supposedly traditional republican party in the south, have been a massive let down for northern nationalists. Bertie Ahern has his many detractors in the south for economic reasons but he was an excellent PM when it came to the peace process. Varadkar and Coveney to give them credit for FGers, have actually been more supportive of the plight of northern nationalists since they took over than Martin has been. I think he (Martin) has become so preoccupied by the threat of SF that he is coming across as just another traditional blue shirt. It's early days yet under Varadkar but both himself and Coveney have shown good leadership to date both in Brexit negotiations and in delivering clear and unambiguous statements in relation to the avoidance of direct rule.   
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 12:40:58 PM

Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.

This isn't easily achieved because the 6 counties is so unproductive.


Quote
If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?

See above. People in the 26 counties would welcome unity, but not having to pay to fix up the place. The British should be expected to leave the place in working order so that people can concentrate on the politics, not funding the place.

Pre Brexit I think the feeling generally would have been that the time had not yet come, a further decade would be needed and the economy needed to recover in any case. As always though the British are fecking things up for their own selfish reasons.
If the occupied territories are unproductive there must be a good bit of potential upside.  It wouldn't be as wide a gap between east and west Germany.
The north would be a welcome counterbalance to Dublin.
I think the pension funds could be the key. They are earning nothing right now with serious tail Risk.  If even half of the money could be redirected to real investment it could work for everyone 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ONARAGGATIP on February 22, 2018, 02:32:22 PM

Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.

This isn't easily achieved because the 6 counties is so unproductive.


Quote
If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?

See above. People in the 26 counties would welcome unity, but not having to pay to fix up the place. The British should be expected to leave the place in working order so that people can concentrate on the politics, not funding the place.

Pre Brexit I think the feeling generally would have been that the time had not yet come, a further decade would be needed and the economy needed to recover in any case. As always though the British are fecking things up for their own selfish reasons.
If the occupied territories are unproductive there must be a good bit of potential upside.  It wouldn't be as wide a gap between east and west Germany.
The north would be a welcome counterbalance to Dublin.
I think the pension funds could be the key. They are earning nothing right now with serious tail Risk.  If even half of the money could be redirected to real investment it could work for everyone

if there was a like button I would hit it.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 22, 2018, 02:59:24 PM
If the occupied territories are unproductive there must be a good bit of potential upside.  It wouldn't be as wide a gap between east and west Germany.
The north would be a welcome counterbalance to Dublin.
I think the pension funds could be the key. They are earning nothing right now with serious tail Risk.  If even half of the money could be redirected to real investment it could work for everyone

I'd love to see some thorough research on what the difference actually is in detail, rather than generalities.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 03:20:39 PM
NI was a  disaster economically for loyalist areas post the collapse of shipbuilding. No society can afford that level of deliberate waste. Very UK. Same as in Yorkshire. 

This is also interesting

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/unionists-facing-a-perfect-storm-of-brexit-and-demographic-shift-36628756.html
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on February 22, 2018, 03:26:00 PM
Someone needs to tell DUPUDA.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on February 22, 2018, 05:17:08 PM

Economic unionists are as likely to forego their unionism if a 32 county Ireland if the right package was put in front of them as much as we've seen small n nationalists happy to live in the status quo of a British statelet.

This isn't easily achieved because the 6 counties is so unproductive.


Quote
If either were to come out and say they're putting together a proposal to set out a process to unite Ireland would it be a vote loser in the 26 counties?

See above. People in the 26 counties would welcome unity, but not having to pay to fix up the place. The British should be expected to leave the place in working order so that people can concentrate on the politics, not funding the place.

Pre Brexit I think the feeling generally would have been that the time had not yet come, a further decade would be needed and the economy needed to recover in any case. As always though the British are fecking things up for their own selfish reasons.

When have the Brits ever left a place in working order?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2018, 05:35:14 PM
Canada was in decent shape when they abandoned it. Australia not too bad. They did a decent job in Hong Kong.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 22, 2018, 05:40:01 PM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."

Absolutely spot on.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 22, 2018, 05:53:59 PM
Canada was in decent shape when they abandoned it. Australia not too bad. They did a decent job in Hong Kong.

I'd say the indigenous people of the first two examples would disagree with you, as for Hong Kong, was it not built on the spoils of opium? And the second they pulled out they, in that typically arrogant British way, complained about the lack of democracy, ignoring the glaring fact there was no democracy when those c***ts were exploiting the place for a hundred years
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 06:21:17 PM
http://www.paulgosling.net/2018/02/the-economic-impact-of-an-all-island-economy-a-draft-report-for-consultation/
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Franko on February 22, 2018, 06:45:23 PM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."

Pretty much bang on.  Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.

"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.

But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2018, 07:03:29 PM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."

Pretty much bang on.  Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.

"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.

But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.
The stats in the Paul Gosling link are shocking

1.   Since partition, the economic strength of the north and the south have gone into reverse. In 1920, 80% of Irish industrial output was in and around Belfast, with Belfast the largest city in the island of Ireland.  The economy of the Republic is now four times larger than that of Northern Ireland, with industrial output ten times larger than that of Northern Ireland.
2.   Average full time income per head in the Republic in 2016 was £40,403, compared to £25,999 in Northern Ireland. In other words, a worker in the Republic is typically paid half as much again as someone working in Northern Ireland.
3.   Since the Good Friday Agreement, increased investment has flown to the Republic, rather than to Northern Ireland. Some £312bn of US investment has gone into the Republic since the GFA.
4.   GVA – gross value added – per capita in the Republic in 2014 was €38,100, compared to €22,000 in Northern Ireland, just 57% of that in the south.
5.   The Republic is much more globally and export focused than is Northern Ireland. As of 2015, exports accounted for 39.5% of Irish economic output, twice the level of Northern Ireland.
6.   The Republic is Northern Ireland’s main export market, accounting for 31% of international exports – a market likely to contract significantly following Brexit.
7.   The economic performance gap between the Republic and Northern Ireland is widening. According to the latest Economic Eye study from accountancy firm EY, economic growth last year in the Republic was 4.9% and in Northern Ireland it was 1.4%.
8.   The Republic is expected to increase its employment level, while Northern Ireland is predicted to lose jobs. EY predicts that the Republic will generate an additional 91,000 jobs by 2020 compared to 2016, whereas Northern Ireland will lose 3,500 jobs.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on February 22, 2018, 08:14:09 PM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."

Pretty much bang on.  Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.

"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.

But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.
The stats in the Paul Gosling link are shocking

1.   Since partition, the economic strength of the north and the south have gone into reverse. In 1920, 80% of Irish industrial output was in and around Belfast, with Belfast the largest city in the island of Ireland.  The economy of the Republic is now four times larger than that of Northern Ireland, with industrial output ten times larger than that of Northern Ireland.
2.   Average full time income per head in the Republic in 2016 was £40,403, compared to £25,999 in Northern Ireland. In other words, a worker in the Republic is typically paid half as much again as someone working in Northern Ireland.
3.   Since the Good Friday Agreement, increased investment has flown to the Republic, rather than to Northern Ireland. Some £312bn of US investment has gone into the Republic since the GFA.
4.   GVA – gross value added – per capita in the Republic in 2014 was €38,100, compared to €22,000 in Northern Ireland, just 57% of that in the south.
5.   The Republic is much more globally and export focused than is Northern Ireland. As of 2015, exports accounted for 39.5% of Irish economic output, twice the level of Northern Ireland.
6.   The Republic is Northern Ireland’s main export market, accounting for 31% of international exports – a market likely to contract significantly following Brexit.
7.   The economic performance gap between the Republic and Northern Ireland is widening. According to the latest Economic Eye study from accountancy firm EY, economic growth last year in the Republic was 4.9% and in Northern Ireland it was 1.4%.
8.   The Republic is expected to increase its employment level, while Northern Ireland is predicted to lose jobs. EY predicts that the Republic will generate an additional 91,000 jobs by 2020 compared to 2016, whereas Northern Ireland will lose 3,500 jobs.

It is not shocking at all, I regularly journey across the border and the difference in economic prosperity is fairly evident. The difference in wages between north and south is striking and the amount of tradesmen making the daily commute to Dublin from the north is huge. There must be no tradesmen in the south.

Even something as simple as infrastructure and roads, it is fairly shocking how the pendulum has swung firmly in favour of the south in the last 15/20 years. The north economically has massive potential upon reunification particularly along the east coast, but it is being completely stifled by the inability of entrenched unionists to see beyond a flag.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: GJL on February 23, 2018, 09:30:15 AM
Wee Jeffery got some roasting on The View last night. A joy to watch.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: sensethetone on February 23, 2018, 09:39:22 AM
Wee Jeffery got some roasting on The View last night. A joy to watch.

Does anyone honestly believe Arlene knew about a deal and Jeffery didn't?

If she did she can't have long left as leader or the DUP don't rate Jeffery.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on February 23, 2018, 09:40:14 AM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."

Pretty much bang on.  Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.

"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.

But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.

I would say they're doing it pretty much right. That's not the issue though, the issue is that, given how far they have brought things, they'll never be accepted by unionists.

Nonetheless, SF will have to do the heavy lifting for another while, might as well be the lightning rod for all the unionist fury as half it, before some of the southern parties can come in, offer coalition or something else acceptable to unionists, and get the job done as a better alternative than dealing with SF. SF screwed in the moment of victory, but I guess that's politics.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 23, 2018, 02:05:28 PM
Wee Jeffery got some roasting on The View last night. A joy to watch.
" a roasting " ?
Leave the rugby trial out of it
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
Another interesting bit from the article

"The nationalist was the most annoyed and frustrated. He was particularly angry that unionism seemed content to economically withdraw into itself and into the eastern counties of the North.

He vividly described the economic waste land that exists on the western side of a line that stretches from Coleraine, bulging out to encompassing most of Tyrone and reaching the southern most point of Fermanagh. His most insightful description was that on their side of the line they had two airports and two universities.

The other businessman was less colourful but even more interesting. Born into a unionist background and a business that straddled the Border, his thesis was that Irish unionism was on its last legs.

Because of the changing demographics he argued that all that was needed was to convince a small number of unionists that Irish unity was the future. He was adamant that the number of unionists persuadable to that opinion was growing, and that the wrong people to do the persuading was Sinn Féin.

The argument as to who are the right people to do the persuading is for another day in the not too distant future, but the substance of this businessman’s argument is being heard more often in unexpected quarters."

Pretty much bang on.  Though what I would add is that the bit in bold summarises well what's going on here right now.

"Sinn Fein are doing it all wrong" is the cry.

But people are VERY light on answers and actions when it comes to doing it the "correct" way.
The stats in the Paul Gosling link are shocking

1.   Since partition, the economic strength of the north and the south have gone into reverse. In 1920, 80% of Irish industrial output was in and around Belfast, with Belfast the largest city in the island of Ireland.  The economy of the Republic is now four times larger than that of Northern Ireland, with industrial output ten times larger than that of Northern Ireland.
2.   Average full time income per head in the Republic in 2016 was £40,403, compared to £25,999 in Northern Ireland. In other words, a worker in the Republic is typically paid half as much again as someone working in Northern Ireland.
3.   Since the Good Friday Agreement, increased investment has flown to the Republic, rather than to Northern Ireland. Some £312bn of US investment has gone into the Republic since the GFA.
4.   GVA – gross value added – per capita in the Republic in 2014 was €38,100, compared to €22,000 in Northern Ireland, just 57% of that in the south.
5.   The Republic is much more globally and export focused than is Northern Ireland. As of 2015, exports accounted for 39.5% of Irish economic output, twice the level of Northern Ireland.
6.   The Republic is Northern Ireland’s main export market, accounting for 31% of international exports – a market likely to contract significantly following Brexit.
7.   The economic performance gap between the Republic and Northern Ireland is widening. According to the latest Economic Eye study from accountancy firm EY, economic growth last year in the Republic was 4.9% and in Northern Ireland it was 1.4%.
8.   The Republic is expected to increase its employment level, while Northern Ireland is predicted to lose jobs. EY predicts that the Republic will generate an additional 91,000 jobs by 2020 compared to 2016, whereas Northern Ireland will lose 3,500 jobs.

It is not shocking at all, I regularly journey across the border and the difference in economic prosperity is fairly evident. The difference in wages between north and south is striking and the amount of tradesmen making the daily commute to Dublin from the north is huge. There must be no tradesmen in the south.

Even something as simple as infrastructure and roads, it is fairly shocking how the pendulum has swung firmly in favour of the south in the last 15/20 years. The north economically has massive potential upon reunification particularly along the east coast, but it is being completely stifled by the inability of entrenched unionists to see beyond a flag.

One thing about the South is stability. The Troubles are still wreaking havoc in the North in terms of economic output. So many business connections were lost. 30 years of experience missed out on.

I was in Lebanon after the civil war ended. Before the war it had been the main economic centre in the Arab world. The hotels all had photos of film stars from the 50s and 60s . By the time the war ended Dubai had become the banking hub. Beirut will never regain what it lost.

Unionism is such a shortsighted ideology.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ziggysego on February 23, 2018, 04:59:50 PM
Wee Jeffery got some roasting on The View last night. A joy to watch.
" a roasting " ?
Leave the rugby trial out of it

Don't be disgusting!! 😠
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 23, 2018, 06:28:53 PM
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Move forward! !!!
DUPUDA? ?
Maybe to 1697 perhaps  >:(

Doesn't really matter, she's an irrelevance, a mediocre solicitor from the sticks way out of her league with no discernible role now that Stormont is finito. If she doesn't throw the towel in, the findings of the RHI Inquiry will in all likelihood finish her, such was her ineptitude in the handling of that farce from the very start (not to mention the benefits accrued from it by members of her family in Fermanagh). As I said before, Brexit and demographics will sort the rest out for the Irish people of the putrid statelet ... tick tock, tick tock

If uk leave with a deal that impacts negatively on the 2 way trade between U.K. And RoI and RoI then also leave will that hasten a united ireland?

Demographics?? If this is based on percentage of the population identifying as from the catholic community times the percentage who want a UI times the percentage that will actually vote for it where are you getting data from that makes you think this is a simple matter of tick tock?

As for DUP they are a sorry bunch. The party contains many unsavoury candidates. Their support many more. But there is a gravitational pull towards their electoral success. Not all their voters share all of their unpleasant views and most would have no truck with UDA. The party are beholden to a scary right wing. It looks to me that will split unless in unearths a Paisley-like demagogue. Not said with relish
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2018, 06:44:04 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/23/good-friday-agreement-irish-brexit-northern-ireland

..last week’s attack on the agreement by a trio of Brexiteers is a development worth unpicking. On 15 February, the Irish historian Ruth Dudley Edwards wrote a Daily Telegraph article on the 13-month impasse at Stormont that concluded: “Realists believe the [deal] has served its purpose and run its course, leaving behind the unintended consequence of enshrining sectarianism in the political process.”
The following day the Tory MP Owen Paterson, a former Northern Ireland secretary, tweeted a link to the piece with a comment: “The collapse of power-sharing in Northern Ireland shows the Good Friday agreement has outlived its use.” Last Saturday the Tory MEP Daniel Hannan wrote, again in the Telegraph, that the agreement was “often spoken about in quasi-religious terms … but its flaws have become clearer over time”. Finally, two days later, the Labour MP Kate Hoey told the Huffington Post that she thought the agreement needed “a cold, rational look”, and that the power-sharing Northern Ireland executive it mandated was “not sustainable in the long term”.
The condemnation of Paterson, Hannan and Hoey has been fierce: this week Hoey told the Northern Ireland affairs select committee that finding fault with the Good Friday agreement was “as if you’re saying you want to kill all babies at birth”. In their defence, all three could argue their criticism was directed at Stormont’s failure rather than the agreement’s international aspects, such as cross-border trade and cooperation. But their long-held position on Brexit – Hannan was one of its chief architects – suggests a different motive: “If the Belfast agreement must die so that the glorious ideal of Brexit may live, so be it,” to quote Fintan O’Toole in today’s Irish Times about this “cynical and reckless” exercise.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on February 23, 2018, 07:00:54 PM
Arlene speaks today
We were not contemplating bringing in an Irish language act and I could not be clearer in relation to that. If you look at the so-called draft agreement that is only one of a number of documents that were circulated and put out and about, and I think the important thing is that we now reflect on where we got to in relation to all of those issues, we have a budget put in place, I think that is important for the people of Northern Ireland and that we move forward.
Move forward! !!!
DUPUDA? ?
Maybe to 1697 perhaps  >:(

Doesn't really matter, she's an irrelevance, a mediocre solicitor from the sticks way out of her league with no discernible role now that Stormont is finito. If she doesn't throw the towel in, the findings of the RHI Inquiry will in all likelihood finish her, such was her ineptitude in the handling of that farce from the very start (not to mention the benefits accrued from it by members of her family in Fermanagh). As I said before, Brexit and demographics will sort the rest out for the Irish people of the putrid statelet ... tick tock, tick tock

If uk leave with a deal that impacts negatively on the 2 way trade between U.K. And RoI and RoI then also leave will that hasten a united ireland?

Demographics?? If this is based on percentage of the population identifying as from the catholic community times the percentage who want a UI times the percentage that will actually vote for it where are you getting data from that makes you think this is a simple matter of tick tock?

As for DUP they are a sorry bunch. The party contains many unsavoury candidates. Their support many more. But there is a gravitational pull towards their electoral success. Not all their voters share all of their unpleasant views and most would have no truck with UDA. The party are beholden to a scary right wing. It looks to me that will split unless in unearths a Paisley-like demagogue. Not said with relish

There is little chance of the Republic leaving the EU under any Brexit scenario, IMO. I believe the Tories will throw the DUP under the bus to get an advantageous deal, and as the EU has already indicated, that would involve the putrid statelet staying in customs union/single market, i.e special status and a border down Irish Sea. What are the DUP going to do? Pull the plug? That will let in Corbyn, who'd happily hand them their arses.

The demographics will not just be a sectarian headcount, Brexit has ensured that. Economics plays a part with a section of unionists as it does with castle Catholics, and if they think they'll be better off in a UI then they'll be more likely to back that. There's also the hardened attitude of the nationalist crocodiles sick to the back teeth of being treated with disdain by the DUP (thieving Planters) in their own land and now more likely to express their anger at the ballot box.

Wouldn't at all be surprised if the DUP splits, sure hasn't it got arch splitters like Foster and Donaldson in its ranks?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2018, 07:07:42 PM
I think ye can all take it as read that the "RoI" won't be leaving the EU.
John Waters and a bunch of rightist extremists invited Farage to an "Irexit" event.
Apart from them nobody else interested in leaving the EU.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2018, 07:13:04 PM
Demographics?? If this is based on percentage of the population identifying as from the catholic community times the percentage who want a UI times the percentage that will actually vote for it where are you getting data from that makes you think this is a simple matter of tick tock?

it isn't a simple matter of tick tock, you still have to put forward your case, but you at least have people listening to you. The problem is that the issue will then revolve around things like economics, matters on which SF have no credibility.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on February 23, 2018, 08:21:06 PM
Demographics?? If this is based on percentage of the population identifying as from the catholic community times the percentage who want a UI times the percentage that will actually vote for it where are you getting data from that makes you think this is a simple matter of tick tock?

it isn't a simple matter of tick tock, you still have to put forward your case, but you at least have people listening to you. The problem is that the issue will then revolve around things like economics, matters on which SF have no credibility.
The UK is an awful mess. the Brexit crowd do not care how much damage their pet project does and they do not care about NI. we are in real uncharted territory. It is very like  100 years ago. Anything can happen.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: smelmoth on February 23, 2018, 09:26:43 PM
I think ye can all take it as read that the "RoI" won't be leaving the EU.
John Waters and a bunch of rightist extremists invited Farage to an "Irexit" event.
Apart from them nobody else interested in leaving the EU.

You can take it as read that RoI doesn't want Uk to leave the EU.

Once it does leave then we have get practicalities. The level of trade with UK and the level of intermediate products traded with U.K. that are part of the supply chain for traded products with EU and ROTW will create practical difficulties
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on February 23, 2018, 09:28:08 PM
Foster got a roasting from Mrs Paisley who still carries a fair sway with the Church wing of the DUP:

“If you are a minister and someone in your department is wrong, the buck stops at your desk,” said Baroness Paisley.
“You have got to do what is right and stand down from your position until the matter is sorted out,” she told BBC Radio Foyle.


She said the DUP was as much to blame as Sinn Féin for the current impasse.

Asked if she included the DUP in people not facing up to the truth, she said: “That’s right. They’re hiding from the truth. And you must be absolutely honest with one another because there’s only one way to be honest when you’ve made a mistake and it’s to confess your sin and confess your mistakes because no one is perfect.

“If that had been done at the beginning, there would have been a very different situation than the one we are in at the minute. We would not be in the mess we are in,” she added.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/baroness-paisley-my-husband-would-not-have-created-this-mess-1.3402512 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/baroness-paisley-my-husband-would-not-have-created-this-mess-1.3402512)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2018, 09:37:18 PM
Foster got a roasting from Mrs Paisley who still carries a fair sway with the Church wing of the DUP:

“If you are a minister and someone in your department is wrong, the buck stops at your desk,” said Baroness Paisley.
“You have got to do what is right and stand down from your position until the matter is sorted out,” she told BBC Radio Foyle.


She said the DUP was as much to blame as Sinn Féin for the current impasse.

Asked if she included the DUP in people not facing up to the truth, she said: “That’s right. They’re hiding from the truth. And you must be absolutely honest with one another because there’s only one way to be honest when you’ve made a mistake and it’s to confess your sin and confess your mistakes because no one is perfect.

“If that had been done at the beginning, there would have been a very different situation than the one we are in at the minute. We would not be in the mess we are in,” she added.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/baroness-paisley-my-husband-would-not-have-created-this-mess-1.3402512 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/baroness-paisley-my-husband-would-not-have-created-this-mess-1.3402512)

I heard her interviewed on RTÉ radio this morning, I hope that in 30 years time that I am as well able to state my case.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on February 23, 2018, 10:33:09 PM
Wee Jeffery got some roasting on The View last night. A joy to watch.
" a roasting " ?
Leave the rugby trial out of it

Don't be disgusting!! 😠

Ooooh Vicar!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 11:06:32 PM
Dodds was squirming in his seat on The View
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Samforever on March 01, 2018, 11:15:16 PM
Once questioned about “ the document “ he could not look Carruthers in the eye.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2018, 11:28:03 PM
Once questioned about “ the document “ he could not look Carruthers in the eye.
Was embarrassing
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on March 24, 2018, 11:00:42 AM
Good to see the judiciary are standing up to the politicians, putting a personal charge on Arlene for court costs and tell those in charge including civil servants that they will be in contempt if they do not get on with the inquests:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/high-court-rules-arlene-foster-liable-for-costs-in-legacy-case-36737824.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/high-court-rules-arlene-foster-liable-for-costs-in-legacy-case-36737824.html)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2018, 11:10:45 AM
Maybe they should let the Judges rule the place for 10 years.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:19:59 PM
So Arlene would move out of Ireland if people voted to unite the island!

I think that sums it all up. Depressing really how she thinks!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 04, 2018, 11:26:13 PM
That would be just grand.
One less painful bigoted 17th Century throwback in our lovely Isle.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on April 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 05, 2018, 12:19:45 AM
The point is that Dodds et al are planning a Trimble type move, and lining up jobs in the House of Lords, while the eejits that were voting for him in North Belfast will still be here. Likewise Foster will be off in England somewhere leaving the rest of people in Fermanagh to pick up the peaces after Brexit wrecks the economy.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 12:21:42 AM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 05, 2018, 01:03:32 AM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.

maybe he was a Kelly From the Isle of Man!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: randomusername on April 05, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on April 05, 2018, 10:10:38 AM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Glad you agree - As an Irish nationalist I'm all for anyone who was a planter and wants to stay when the island is united - I certainly wouldn't want unionists to leave or lose their identity - plenty of room for us all (and they can keep their land too)

If I was a unionist/protestant and my leader said i'm leaving if the island is united (as I have the money and resource to do so) and i'll leave the rest of you that I lead to fend for yourselves - well I'd be asking myself do I really want a leader like that???
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 05, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists.  I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Therealdonald on April 05, 2018, 11:20:42 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists.  I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.

Point out to me where Gerry was wrong with that statement?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: randomusername on April 06, 2018, 09:51:36 AM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists.  I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.

I said nothing about Gerry Adams' attitude towards unionists. I just think he's more comfortable with his identity than Arlene Foster, who appears to be one step away from sporting a union jack dress a la Geri Halliwell.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on April 06, 2018, 10:01:24 AM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists.  I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.

He wasn't referring to unionists, he was referring to those who had an issue with equality, in the wake of comments by gregory campbell and his ilk
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 06, 2018, 10:13:05 AM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists.  I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.

I said nothing about Gerry Adams' attitude towards unionists. I just think he's more comfortable with his identity than Arlene Foster, who appears to be one step away from sporting a union jack dress a la Geri Halliwell.

Let’s pray that she never makes that last step then!!!!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: RedHand88 on April 06, 2018, 01:28:38 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists.  I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.

He didn't refer to unionists as b******s. He referred to certain bigots within the dup as b******s. But the unionist newspapers ran a story about how sf were out to get all unionists and people like you have lapped it up without reading the actual full quote. Bear in mind this was a few days after the curry my yoghurt incident.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on April 06, 2018, 01:57:37 PM
Don't let the f**king door hit you on the way out, Robbie Coltrane
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 08:31:02 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists.  I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.

He didn't refer to unionists as b******s. He referred to certain bigots within the dup as b******s. But the unionist newspapers ran a story about how sf were out to get all unionists and people like you have lapped it up without reading the actual full quote. Bear in mind this was a few days after the curry my yoghurt incident.
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:26:04 PM
It probably shows that she is just one of her ancestors kind - a planter who only loves power and not the land - once the power over the oppressed is gone whats the point of hanging around.

How anyone could hold on to leadership with how she performs is mind boggling.

Funny thing is her dad's a Kelly. Wonder how she reconciles that with her britishness.
Probably the same way Gerry reconciles his "Irishness" given his "Planter" ancestry.

Well then he's very much of the same ilk as the original Irish Republicans who were presbyterians. I'd imagine Adams would probably be more comfortable with that aspect of his identity than Foster would be with hers. Bring back Peter Robinson/Ian Paisley lol.
Yeah, old Gerry is well known for his high regard for Unionists.  I think is was "b**tards" that he referred to them as a year or two back.

He didn't refer to unionists as b******s. He referred to certain bigots within the dup as b******s. But the unionist newspapers ran a story about how sf were out to get all unionists and people like you have lapped it up without reading the actual full quote. Bear in mind this was a few days after the curry my yoghurt incident.
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

Raw is war.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2018, 10:33:12 PM
... Arlene Foster, who appears to be one step away from sporting a union jack dress a la Geri Halliwell.

Now there's a picture you want to keep with you!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2018, 10:34:13 PM
All this talk about the treatment of Protestants in a united Ireland. Someone once said to me "I can't wait till the day when I'm whipping the b******s in the fields." He was joking of course.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?

* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 06, 2018, 11:09:55 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?

* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Therealdonald on April 06, 2018, 11:16:56 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?

* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".

Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 06, 2018, 11:33:25 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?

* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".

I'll take your avoidance of the question as agreement that Gerry is a one-off, hero and legend of Irish Republicanism.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 07, 2018, 09:09:57 AM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?

* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".

Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance?  Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view? 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 07, 2018, 10:02:23 AM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?

* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".

Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance?  Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view?

You want to see a divergence or view points?  Read the Paddy Jackson threads....we definitely don’t all agree on this board!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 11:34:31 AM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?

* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".

Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance?  Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view?

Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

Anything for a bit of balance lad.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 07, 2018, 11:42:17 AM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?

* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".

Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance?  Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view?

Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

Anything for a bit of balance lad.
So it's okay for people from the Nationalist community to oppose the  IRA's campaign but not someone from a unionist background?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 12:26:11 PM
Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

30 years is small beer lad, the British have raped Ireland and murdered Irish men women and children for sport for centuries. Far be it for anyone to partake in an equally* bloody response?

* actually small beer in comparison to atrocities carried out by the British in Ireland.
Cheers "lad".

Michaelg is there no IFA board or some other middle of the road, anti-nationalist, pro-FookALL board for you to use?
What's wrong with a bit of balance?  Or, do you just want to hear from people with identical points of view?

Tbf, the "b**tards" comment was  small beer compared to condoning the murder of people from the unionist community over 30 odd  years.

Anything for a bit of balance lad.
So it's okay for people from the Nationalist community to oppose the  IRA's campaign but not someone from a unionist background?

Everyone’s entitled to their opinion I would have thought, whats your point?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ONARAGGATIP on April 07, 2018, 01:12:39 PM
I for one welcome a unionist voice on this forum, if someone can take the time and effort to join in discussion and put forward their own view when clearly a minority voice that's surely a good thing. Things will only change through dialogue.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ziggysego on April 07, 2018, 02:48:44 PM
I for one welcome a unionist voice on this forum, if someone can take the time and effort to join in discussion and put forward their own view when clearly a minority voice that's surely a good thing. Things will only change through dialogue.

I agree. Too many of us are too comfortable in our echo chambers and hate to have our views challenged. I welcome it.

That being said, michaelg is a themuns, so is obviously wrong 😉🇮🇪
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Denn Forever on April 07, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 03:23:33 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 03:34:53 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.

The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.

Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Sweeper 123 on April 07, 2018, 03:37:32 PM
and how are protestants doing now in the ROI (im sure there are still some) - i dont believe there are any issues, even playing GAA
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 03:42:24 PM
and how are protestants doing now in the ROI (im sure there are still some) - i dont believe there are any issues, even playing GAA

You have to realise that the DUP and its supporters do not live in the 21st century, they believe in restoring things to 1950s and 1960s when they dominated society, there was no EU, Britain still ruled the waves and N.Ireland was ruled by people titled Captain and Major.  Therefore, they see RoI as it was at these times and not as a modern pluralist society with economic growth beyond the dreams of many other countries.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.

The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.

Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.

Were the elected representatives not fit to stand up to the men of cloth? What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 07, 2018, 04:06:17 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

Define didn't do too well? Were they poorer than other people? Could they not become President? Were their schools closed down? Was their university disadvantaged?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 04:09:11 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.

The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.

Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.

Were the elected representatives not fit to stand up to the men of cloth? What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?

Correct.  They worked hand in hand or under instruction, depending on your viewpoint, with the hierarchy of the Catholic Church in developing the constitution which gave a special place to the Catholic Church. De Valera and Bishop McQuaid are often regarded as joint authors of the constitution.

Elected representatives did not cross the Catholic Church and allowed it to subjugate the people and handed over state resources to allow it to run mother and baby homes, industrial schools and orphanages where citizens were subjected to the worst abuses without state intervention.  Catholic Church was handed the education system and even until now prevents children attending its primary schools if not baptised into the Catholic Church.

You would do well to read of history of the formation of the Irish state and the domination of the Catholic hierarchy before getting into mopery about the North.  Both sides of the border dealt badly with those who were not part of the dominant political and religious grouping.

The Republic was a cold house for the vast majority of Protestants and a very difficult place for the majority of poor Catholics.


Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 04:21:13 PM
I would imagine that Protestants are apprehensive about an united ireland as they didn't do too well in the Republic post 1921.

If anyone could elaborate on this please.

The formation of a state with the Catholic Church pulling all the strings and drafting its own sections of the constitution to ensure its domination and a Catholic state could be a clue.

Only with the implosion of the Catholic Church's domination of Irish political thinking and the constitution in very recent years as a result of its atrocious handling of clerical abuse and its role in the industrial schools and homes for mothers and children has the Irish state moved to a more pluralist society that would be more welcoming to non-Catholics.

Were the elected representatives not fit to stand up to the men of cloth? What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?

Correct.  They worked hand in hand or under instruction, depending on your viewpoint, with the hierarchy of the Catholic Church in developing the constitution which gave a special place to the Catholic Church. De Valera and Bishop McQuaid are often regarded as joint authors of the constitution.

Elected representatives did not cross the Catholic Church and allowed it to subjugate the people and handed over state resources to allow it to run mother and baby homes, industrial schools and orphanages where citizens were subjected to the worst abuses without state intervention.  Catholic Church was handed the education system and even until now prevents children attending its primary schools if not baptised into the Catholic Church.

You would do well to read of history of the formation of the Irish state and the domination of the Catholic hierarchy before getting into mopery about the North.  Both sides of the border dealt badly with those who were not part of the dominant political and religious grouping.

The Republic was a cold house for the vast majority of Protestants and a very difficult place for the majority of poor Catholics.

That should lead you nicely into the second part of the question. What are we talking here, displacement, pogrom, refusal of civil rights, state sponsored murder?

It would be interesting to further qualify what exactly happened and quantify it with more than anacdotal evidence maintaining balance throughout if you are going to add the issues in the north into the mix. I admit I'm asking for the best part of a thesis which you might not have time to pen on here any time soon but a high level account would be great 

If thats not possible could someone just point out to me which political parties were responsible.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 07, 2018, 04:33:46 PM
Big difference between state sponsored murder, displacement,  pogrom and refusal of civil rights suffered by 35% (as it was) as opposed to none of the above suffered by 5%.
In these post Religious days it's hard to understand the total Catholic ethos of the 26 Cos.
However the State had little money and was quite happy to have the 2 main Churches provide schooling and social services.
Mind you the 6 Cos "Government" were quite happy to let the Catholic Church look after Education of Catholic kids.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 07, 2018, 05:06:46 PM
Big difference between state sponsored murder, displacement,  pogrom and refusal of civil rights suffered by 35% (as it was) as opposed to none of the above suffered by 5%.
In these post Religious days it's hard to understand the total Catholic ethos of the 26 Cos.
However the State had little money and was quite happy to have the 2 main Churches provide schooling and social services.
Mind you the 6 Cos "Government" were quite happy to let the Catholic Church look after Education of Catholic kids.

So if none of the above then what made the 26co's a cold house for Protestants post 1921? And who were the parties in power at the time who perpetrated this? Was it an isolated incident of one government or consecutive governments and for how long?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 05:29:20 PM

It would be interesting to further qualify what exactly happened and quantify it with more than anacdotal evidence maintaining balance throughout if you are going to add the issues in the north into the mix. I admit I'm asking for the best part of a thesis which you might not have time to pen on here any time soon but a high level account would be great 

If thats not possible could someone just point out to me which political parties were responsible.

I have not given you anecdotal evidence, I have provided you with historical fact.  The Irish Catholic Church in conjunction with De Valera wrote a constitution that ensured that the new Republic was a Catholic state.  the state handed over a significant welfare issue to the Church to run as it wished and within its own ethos.  It handed over the education system to the Church which as stated above it still controls until today and by prohibiting anyone not baptised to enter the primary schools in the state.

If the constitution of the state is specifically written to favour a religion and you are not part of that religion then the state is colluding in discrimination at the most basic level in terms of your rights.  Hence, Protestants who were cut off by the partitioning of the country found themselves in a state that did not respect their religious faith and left them with few options.  Their dispersal across the country left them in an even more difficult position.  Those in the border counties had the option to move North, many left to go to England as the English army withdrew and others had to assimilate into the Catholic state with no time or respect for their religious beliefs. Just as N.Ireland was being declared to be a Protestant state for a Protestant people, the Republic constitutionally and in practice given the welfare and educational situation alone became a Catholic state for Catholic people.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Denn Forever on April 07, 2018, 05:34:21 PM
It was  a perception on my part.  Some Irish Times pieces on it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/protestant-population-decline-1.297051

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-secret-lives-of-ireland-s-protestants-1.2955670
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 07, 2018, 05:44:01 PM
It was  a perception on my part.  Some Irish Times pieces on it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/protestant-population-decline-1.297051

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-secret-lives-of-ireland-s-protestants-1.2955670

Issues concerning the Catholic church are not concerned with the political structure of the country, a Protestant could be in a small and declining minority in Forkhill as well as Fethard.

There was a Protestant population decline, but this started before independence and included people lost in WW1 and so on. If these people felt British then why would they not go to Britain, which has twice the living standard at that time, as so many Irish people who did not think themselves British did?

I think accuracy is important in these matters.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on April 07, 2018, 08:37:58 PM
I see the ethnic cleansing/genocide crap raising its head again and of course the decline in the protestant population from 1850 up until independence when the empire was in all its pomp was similar to the post independence decline but shhh dont tell anybody. Mundane reasons such as intermarriage and british army and civil servants leaving isnt very exciting
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 07, 2018, 11:04:11 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 07, 2018, 11:44:17 PM
Plenty of Protestants just got on with living in the new State, some went to C of I schools where they existed, more went to Catholic Schools but sat out religion classes. They farmed their buts of land in Leitrim or Sligo or their big farms in Roscommon.
They got on with their neighbours and are now indistinguishable from them except for going to different Churches.
Big Protestant owned  shops in garrison towns continued to trade and thrive.
The Guinnesses   and the Hely Hutchinsons and their ilk continued to make fortunes and made sure no Protestant was unemployed.
The whole ethos of the State was Catholic,  95% of the population was Catholic but apart from the Librarian case in Mayo and the disgraceful boycott in Wexford 1950s most people just left Protestants be.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 09:12:15 AM
Plenty of Protestants just got on with living in the new State, some went to C of I schools where they existed, more went to Catholic Schools but sat out religion classes. They farmed their buts of land in Leitrim or Sligo or their big farms in Roscommon.
They got on with their neighbours and are now indistinguishable from them except for going to different Churches.
Big Protestant owned  shops in garrison towns continued to trade and thrive.
The Guinnesses   and the Hely Hutchinsons and their ilk continued to make fortunes and made sure no Protestant was unemployed.
The whole ethos of the State was Catholic,  95% of the population was Catholic but apart from the Librarian case in Mayo and the disgraceful boycott in Wexford 1950s most people just left Protestants be.
I'd be extremely surprised if there were only 2 instances of discrimination against the Protestant minority population since the  inception of the new State.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 09:36:45 AM
The Wexford boycott was nothing to do with the State. De Valera told people to cop themselves on.

As most Protestants were well heeled few if any needed public service jobs. Banks and certain Companies/shops  made sure they weren't unemployed.
Until the 19 70's Catholics didn't get above a certain level in Guinnesses,  also a  company in Limerick whose name I can't now remember. 2 shops I know of didn't employ Catholics till the 19 70's.
If there was anti Protestant discrimination ......it wasn't the in your face croppies lie down stuff of the North  anyway.
Still wouldn't be right but I'm not aware of any other than the Mayo Librarian case.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 09:42:31 AM
http://www.mayonews.ie/component/content/article?id=5847:an-unwelcome-guest
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 09:51:19 AM
The Wexford boycott was nothing to do with the State. De Valera told people to cop themselves on.

As most Protestants were well heeled few if any needed public service jobs. Banks and certain Companies/shops  made sure they weren't unemployed.
Until the 19 70's Catholics didn't get above a certain level in Guinnesses,  also a  company in Limerick whose name I can't now remember. 2 shops I know of didn't employ Catholics till the 19 70's.
If there was anti Protestant discrimination ......it wasn't the in your face croppies lie down stuff of the North  anyway.
Still wouldn't be right but I'm not aware of any other than the Mayo Librarian case.
This does not mean that the catholic owned business did not discriminate against Protestants.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orior on April 08, 2018, 10:07:33 AM
The Wexford boycott was nothing to do with the State. De Valera told people to cop themselves on.

As most Protestants were well heeled few if any needed public service jobs. Banks and certain Companies/shops  made sure they weren't unemployed.
Until the 19 70's Catholics didn't get above a certain level in Guinnesses,  also a  company in Limerick whose name I can't now remember. 2 shops I know of didn't employ Catholics till the 19 70's.
If there was anti Protestant discrimination ......it wasn't the in your face croppies lie down stuff of the North  anyway.
Still wouldn't be right but I'm not aware of any other than the Mayo Librarian case.
This does not mean that the catholic owned business did not discriminate against Protestants.

Sure, but just remember about discrimination against Catholics next time someone tries to score a point.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 10:45:17 AM
Michael grasping at straws to support the narrative he was brought up with methinks.
A bit like "it doesn't mean that others aren't beating their wives" sort of thing.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: theskull1 on April 08, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
Trying to penal...ise Cathlicks is he?  :)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hardy on April 08, 2018, 11:47:13 AM
As the cliché has it, those were different (and, mostly, more awful) times. Casual discrimination was the stuff of everyday life and certainly not confined to any particular sector of society.

I can't find it now, but I remember posting here an advert from the Irish Times archive in the thirties - a solicitor's office in Dublin was looking for a "girl" to do accounts. "Protestant only", it said.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 12:02:46 PM
https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/shorthand-for-protestants-sectarian-advertising-in-the-irish-times/
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2018, 12:51:09 PM
The Wexford boycott was nothing to do with the State. De Valera told people to cop themselves on.

As most Protestants were well heeled few if any needed public service jobs. Banks and certain Companies/shops  made sure they weren't unemployed.
Until the 19 70's Catholics didn't get above a certain level in Guinnesses,  also a  company in Limerick whose name I can't now remember. 2 shops I know of didn't employ Catholics till the 19 70's.
If there was anti Protestant discrimination ......it wasn't the in your face croppies lie down stuff of the North  anyway.
Still wouldn't be right but I'm not aware of any other than the Mayo Librarian case.
This does not mean that the catholic owned business did not discriminate against Protestants.

Businesses hired closer to home than is usual nowadays. And Protestants owned a disproportionate amount business.


I'd be extremely surprised if there were only 2 instances of discrimination against the Protestant minority population since the  inception of the new State.

There  is always a certain proportion of irregular behaviour, but it was  not institutionalised as in NI.
Fethard was not State discrimination and would have happened had Ireland still been in the Brutish Empire.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 08, 2018, 12:53:50 PM
Those Protestants. Up to no good as usual.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 02:31:56 PM
As the cliché has it, those were different (and, mostly, more awful) times. Casual discrimination was the stuff of everyday life and certainly not confined to any particular sector of society.

I can't find it now, but I remember posting here an advert from the Irish Times archive in the thirties - a solicitor's office in Dublin was looking for a "girl" to do accounts. "Protestant only", it said.
Indeed. Was just making the point that it was  likely a 2 way street and t assert that there only 2 known instances of anti-Protestant discrimination was fairly ridiculous.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 08, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
As is your belief that Catholic businesses must have discriminated against Protestants because you assume so.
Wasn't asserting anything but am certainly unaware of any other instances.
If you know any feel free to post info.
Fethard was a local row instigated and inflamed by a Parish Priest.
The Mayo case got the Council dissolved by Central Government. Also the good lady had a happy ending on 2 counts - met a husband and hadn't to live or work in feckin Mayo.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 08, 2018, 08:47:34 PM
As is your belief that Catholic businesses must have discriminated against Protestants because you assume so.
Wasn't asserting anything but am certainly unaware of any other instances.
If you know any feel free to post info.
Fethard was a local row instigated and inflamed by a Parish Priest.
The Mayo case got the Council dissolved by Central Government. Also the good lady had a happy ending on 2 counts - met a husband and hadn't to live or work in feckin Mayo.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/protestant-teacher-wins-discrimination-case-in-republic-of-ireland-28571280.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/school-protestant-1320710-Feb2014/
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2018, 11:57:41 PM
As is your belief that Catholic businesses must have discriminated against Protestants because you assume so.
Wasn't asserting anything but am certainly unaware of any other instances.
If you know any feel free to post info.
Fethard was a local row instigated and inflamed by a Parish Priest.
The Mayo case got the Council dissolved by Central Government. Also the good lady had a happy ending on 2 counts - met a husband and hadn't to live or work in feckin Mayo.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/protestant-teacher-wins-discrimination-case-in-republic-of-ireland-28571280.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/school-protestant-1320710-Feb2014/

Would she have got a job in a Catholic school in NI?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:01:38 AM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.


Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on April 09, 2018, 05:32:50 PM
It was extremely nice of the Combined Loyalist paramilitaries to issue a statement saying that they do not support criminality. Even nicer to hear Arlene welcome this lovely gesture by saying how nice they were in comparision to big bad Gerry Adams.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 09, 2018, 05:38:24 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.
Excellent post.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on April 09, 2018, 06:14:25 PM
It was extremely nice of the Combined Loyalist paramilitaries to issue a statement saying that they do not support criminality. Even nicer to hear Arlene welcome this lovely gesture by saying how nice they were in comparision to big bad Gerry Adams.

I thought that. What do these pricks want? A medal?

(More community grants i would guess)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 09, 2018, 07:19:29 PM
As is your belief that Catholic businesses must have discriminated against Protestants because you assume so.
Wasn't asserting anything but am certainly unaware of any other instances.
If you know any feel free to post info.
Fethard was a local row instigated and inflamed by a Parish Priest.
The Mayo case got the Council dissolved by Central Government. Also the good lady had a happy ending on 2 counts - met a husband and hadn't to live or work in feckin Mayo.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/protestant-teacher-wins-discrimination-case-in-republic-of-ireland-28571280.html

http://www.thejournal.ie/school-protestant-1320710-Feb2014/

Would she have got a job in a Catholic school in NI?

Yes she would but only if the Board of Governors did not exercise its right to not employ a teacher who was not qualified to teach R.E. with a certificate validated by the Catholic Church.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 09, 2018, 09:32:56 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?

To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments  about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.

/Jim
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on April 09, 2018, 09:40:05 PM
Jim wells seems to have gone into full meltdown.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 09, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?

To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments  about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.

/Jim

But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.

By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 09, 2018, 10:38:38 PM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?

To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments  about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.

/Jim

But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.

By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.

Excellent post.  DUP in aprticular do not speak for younger Protestants.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/04/northern-irish-unionist-parties-alienating-young-protestants-study

Many also only vote for them due to polarised nature of politics in NI.  I would rather put pins in my eyes.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2018, 11:51:23 PM
Michael do you and others of your thinking vote at all?
Who would ye most likely vote for if ye did vote? ?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 10, 2018, 12:43:41 AM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?

To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments  about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.

/Jim

But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.

By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.

I am not tarring all unionists or northerners with any brush. I am referring to the likes of Arlene who would feel compelled to emigrate in the event of a United Ireland. I  questioning the relationship reasons she (and they) would have for this.

/Jim.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 10, 2018, 12:46:02 AM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?

To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments  about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.

/Jim

But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.

By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.

Excellent post.  DUP in aprticular do not speak for younger Protestants.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/04/northern-irish-unionist-parties-alienating-young-protestants-study

Many also only vote for them due to polarised nature of politics in NI.  I would rather put pins in my eyes.

Whatever their reasoning the majority of unionists give them a mandate to speak for them.

/Jiim.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 10, 2018, 07:20:59 AM
Michael do you and others of your thinking vote at all?
Who would ye most likely vote for if ye did vote? ?
I have voted 2 or 3 times since the GFA.  It's a difficult choice given the ballbags (Both sides by the way) who run for election. 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 10, 2018, 07:24:22 AM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?

To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments  about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.

/Jim

But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.

By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.

Excellent post.  DUP in aprticular do not speak for younger Protestants.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/04/northern-irish-unionist-parties-alienating-young-protestants-study

Many also only vote for them due to polarised nature of politics in NI.  I would rather put pins in my eyes.

Whatever their reasoning the majority of unionists give them a mandate to speak for them.

/Jiim.
Obviously they get the majority of unionist votes polled, however, when the turnout can fall to almost 50%, they may not be getting voted in by the majority of unionists available to vote.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 10, 2018, 11:02:54 AM
Do you agree that the newly created Catholic state was a very cold house for Protestants? 

There was no need for forced removal or ethnic cleansing to move most Protestants out of the new state if they weren't prepared to fully integrate into the Catholic population.

Undoubtedly it was and it contributed to decline in Protestant population.   However, the current Irish Republic bears no resemblance to the past Free State.   A future, hypothetical, All-Ireland State would be different again.  The reality is based on current trends the average DUPer would find their views of issues like gay marriage, trusting Muslims to go the shops, etc.. as more of an issue than being Protestant.  In fact I would go as far as to say that they would find the secular, as against Catholic aspects more discomforting.

Frankly from my point of view, the Republic of Ireland is more alike the wider UK than Northern Ireland and I can't help the feeling that Arlene fears being part of a minority as much as anything else.

/Jim.

Why do you think that? Because the DUP are against gay marriage and abortion, and blocking an Irish Language Act?

To an extent, yes. These you are more likely to lose out on a position for coming out with Paisley type comments  about gays repulsing you than what religion you practice. Also I have heard some unionist politicians extolling the diversity of the UK, yet use their majority to rule against (in my eyes) said diversity.

/Jim

But a couple of dozen loons in the DUP don't speak for all unionists in the north (even though they vote for them), never mind everyone in the North. They certainly don't speak for me. Nor do SF, but that's another matter. You can't tar everyone in the North (unionists and nationalists) with the DUP brush.

By the way, gays may repulse countless others in the North and in Britain. You just don't hear them say it. Only the DUP have the bravery/stupidity to say it.

I am not tarring all unionists or northerners with any brush. I am referring to the likes of Arlene who would feel compelled to emigrate in the event of a United Ireland. I  questioning the relationship reasons she (and they) would have for this.

/Jim.

Take any words a politican says with a pinch of salt. Arlene was just trotting out the usual bluff. Same as May with her Brexit bluff. Politicans, for the want of a better term, sticking out their chests.  You wouldn't expect anything less.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2018, 11:11:33 AM
Michael do you and others of your thinking vote at all?
Who would ye most likely vote for if ye did vote? ?
I have voted 2 or 3 times since the GFA.  It's a difficult choice given the ballbags (Both sides by the way) who run for election.
You're leaving it to others  to decide so.
If there were more non aligned ball bags elected it might help.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 09:54:32 AM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 10:45:39 AM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.

Has her statements released last night not thrown some of her SPADs under the bus already?

She'll use the "I left that detail up to the civil servants" and the "no, I wasn't informed of the overspend" even though she was told several times, but alas no minutes were taken!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 11:06:38 AM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.

Has her statements released last night not thrown some of her SPADs under the bus already?

She'll use the "I left that detail up to the civil servants" and the "no, I wasn't informed of the overspend" even though she was told several times, but alas no minutes were taken!

But surely with her being a christian, with church and faith is a big part of her life she'd be telling the inquiry the truth? does she have to put her hand on a bible for this inquiry? lol
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 12:53:44 PM
For those interested Arlene Foster is due to appear to give evidence at the RHI Inquiry today at 2:00pm.

Has her statements released last night not thrown some of her SPADs under the bus already?

She'll use the "I left that detail up to the civil servants" and the "no, I wasn't informed of the overspend" even though she was told several times, but alas no minutes were taken!

Yeah, it looks like she's going to blame a lot on Andrew Crawford the SPAD who resigned - but he admitted yesterday that he still works PT for the DUP.  That's despite her saying when he resigned that the inquiry would exonerate him.  I've followed this fairly closely.  So far no smoking gun for Foster.  To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on April 12, 2018, 01:04:12 PM
I still think the DUP were told by someone in westminister that the treasury was going to cover the cost of the complete RHI Scheme so the DUP took this as a way to get a few of their major friends a few pound. 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Owen Brannigan on April 12, 2018, 01:17:17 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 01:39:22 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.

There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2018, 01:49:31 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.

There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.

So if that gets Nick Cotton off the hook will the shinners go back into Gov?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 01:56:55 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.

There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.

The key point seems to be a meeting on 14 June 2011 (this actually happened while the consultant's report was still in draft form).  Senior civil servant Fiona Hepper told the inquiry that she took Foster through the costings of RHI in detail.  Foster says it is "unlikely that that happened" (note use of language, she doesn't say it definitely didn't happen).  The problem (for everyone) is that there is no written record of what was discussed at that meeting - which is mind numbing, given what has transpired.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Denn Forever on April 12, 2018, 02:00:13 PM
First Rule of Fight Club.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on April 12, 2018, 03:08:45 PM
To tell you the truth it looks like massive incompetence in the higher echelons of the civil service was a huge factor in RHI.

+1

Incompetence is a strong theme within the managerial levels of NICS.  Public servants only interested in their next move to another department and/or a promotion regardless of previous record.

There's more to this than incompetence but that will be enough to get Arlene off the hook unless holy Joe Jonathan Bell can bring forth manna from heaven in the form of something tangible that ties Arlene into this a bit deeper than she's currently letting on.

So if that gets Nick Cotton off the hook will the shinners go back into Gov?

I don't think Arlene stepping aside was part of the botched deal a few weeks back, so I can't see this making a button of difference if Arlene isn't prepared to sign off on the ILA.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 03:17:56 PM
She's sounding a bit like Rory Harrison ;):

"Inquiry panel member Dr Keith MacLean notes that Mrs Foster says she didn't do anything wrong and he asks: "But did you do all the right things?"

Mrs Foster says that's for the panel to decide, but makes the point that she would've acted differently if she'd known some of what she knows now.

When pressed to give examples of things she didn't do but should or could have done, she says"none that spring to mind at present".
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 12, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
This is a judicial slap down:

"Asked about his (Andrew Crawford's) role, she says he would've read submissions and related reports that were provided to her to pick up matters that she needed to be aware of.  Dr Crawford has told the inquiry that he didn't read in detail crucial reports on which the scheme was based.

Inquiry chair Sir Patrick Coglhin tells Mrs Foster that it "concerns me" that Dr Crawford didn't go through the papers in detail given the complexity and massive cost of the scheme.  That just seems to me to be perhaps not the highest standard of governmental practice," he adds."


Ouch, I bet her face is quare and red!  Foster's biggest danger here is if she loses her temper (which she's prone to do)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 13, 2018, 04:33:40 PM
Arlene's evidence today mostly could be summed up as:

"No-one told me"
"I wasn't made aware"
"I didn't know"
"It wasn't pointed out"
"It was X's responsibility"
"I should have been told"
"I didn't see those papers"
"It was never raised"

Though Coghlin nails her in this exchange:

There was "very little conversation at all" about the need for cost controls to be added to the RHI scheme, says Mrs Foster, and she claims it's not fair to suggest the necessity passed her by.

She says she believed that there was a mechanism by which the scheme could be suspended in an emergency but that "turns out to be the wrong understanding".

But the inquiry chair Sir Patrick Coghlin says the need for cost controls was raised in letters to her from the UK government's then energy minister Greg Barker, who was overseeing the similar RHI scheme that was in Great Britain.

When that's put to her, Mrs Foster accepts that Mr Barker - now Lord Barker of Battle - wrote to her and the department and alerted her to the issue of budget protection measures.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: omagh_gael on April 13, 2018, 04:52:40 PM
Watched some of it today and was astounded by her lack of oversight in the whole affair. Unbelievable. She is throwing people under the bus left right and centre. One of the Chairmen could be seen more or less smirking at the response Foster was giving at the time. It already looks like she'll come out of this with serious damage and it hasn't even got to the juicy part of how cost controls were delayed for so long.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orior on April 16, 2018, 01:28:58 PM
What a pity that the tweet by Snarlene has been high-jacked.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rivals-support-dups-foster-and-lockhart-duo-after-cruel-online-taunts-about-appearance-36809645.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/rivals-support-dups-foster-and-lockhart-duo-after-cruel-online-taunts-about-appearance-36809645.html)

https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/984887597318144002 (https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/984887597318144002)

There were some very relevant and accurate criticisms, but have gotten clouded by the horsey jokes.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on April 17, 2018, 10:36:03 AM
Dr Crawford has come out fighting and accusing department officials of deliberately misleading Arlene on what was the best scheme.

I wonder did he tell this to his relations as well!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 17, 2018, 11:53:42 AM
A long read from Sam McBride but some eyebrow raising stuff as to how Foster ran (or didn't run) her department...

Arlene Foster signed ‘blank cheque’ on cash for ash despite no cost figure, RHI Inquiry told

https://inews.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/arlene-foster-signed-blank-cheque-on-cash-for-ash-despite-no-cost-figure-rhi-inquiry-told/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Arlene Foster signed “a blank cheque” by putting her signature to a statement that the RHI scheme was value for money – even though she had not been told what it would cost, the RHI inquiry has been told.  The revelation came today during further probing exchanges with Mrs Foster’s long-standing special adviser (Spad) which provided more insight into how the DUP leader operated as a government minister for almost a decade and how the ‘cash for ash’ scheme was flawed from the outset.  Dr Crawford candidly accepted that Mrs Foster’s signature had been little more than a “box-ticking exercise” because legally she had to sign the document in question to authorise officials to proceed with such a significant policy but she was reliant on her civil servants “to do their job”.

On a number of occasions today, Dr Crawford accepted that he failed to do something which he ought to have done. However, he also frequently blamed officials in Mrs Foster’s then department for lapses and on one occasion accused them of “deliberately misleading” the minister.  In April 2012, Mrs Foster signed a declaration which said: “I have read the Regulatory Impact Assessment and I am satisfied that the benefits justify the costs”, contained within a document known as a ‘Regulatory Impact Assessment’.  However, Mrs Foster had not been told the costs and, even though the statement was made personally by her, she was entirely reliant on her officials’ flawed views.  At the point when the scheme was being designed, paperwork frequently referred to it as commitment of £25 million – because that was the money to cover the period up to 2015 of a 20-year scheme.

When asked if he had considered how the department was committing itself to in total, Dr Crawford said today that he did not think that he had considered the total cost of the scheme, although he was aware that it was more than the £25 million mentioned in the documentation.  During robust questioning, Dr Crawford was asked whether it was “normal” for the minister to be asked to sign a statement which endorsed a scheme as value for money without being told exactly what it would cost.  The former Spad highlighted that the submission in question did say that a Northern Ireland RHI would deliver the highest renewable heat output and the best value – something which was an inaccurate summary of what the consultants commissioned by the department had found.

However, Dr Keith MacLean, the technical assessor to the inquiry, pointed out that the minister was signing to say that she was personally content with the costs of the scheme and its value for money. He told Mrs Foster’s former adviser – who remains as a DUP adviser – that “it seems strange to me” that there was no mention of what those costs were or any explanation of how it was value for money.  Dr Crawford said: “Looking at it back, in hindsight there should have been, and that should have been covered in the covering submission to the RIA.”  Referring to a similar document which Mrs Foster had previously signed despite it containing a blank box for the costs, Dr MacLean said that “effectively a blank cheque was being signed off” and asked: “Is this not another example of the minister signing off on something where the number hasn’t been filled in?”

Dr Crawford said: “The number hasn’t been filled in in terms of the submission to the minister but she is aware that it was with the casework committee and that this whole scheme had gone through the casework committee and the department, whose role was to go through the costs and benefit and make sure it was value for money.”  Asked by counsel to the inquiry Joseph Aiken whether it was common that these documents did not give the cost of the proposal, Dr Crawford said he would have expected to have been given that detail either in that document or in the covering submission to the minister.

Dr MacLean then asked: “You’re expecting to be made aware of all of these things. Now, if that was an expectation why would you not expect to be made aware on the face of the document like this about what the total cost is going to be and why would you not, when you don’t see that information, advise the minister not to sign a blank cheque?”  Dr Crawford said: “At that stage, what I’d have been doing would have been relying on the casework committee [of civil servants] and those that were on the committee had an experience and drilling down in casework and making sure that was the case.”  Dr MacLean said: “But why bother going to the minister at all if all you’re going to do is tick a box ‘oh, casework’s looked at it, so it must be OK, so we’ll do it as well’?”

Dr Crawford said it went to be minster because it had to be her who signed off such a significant document.  Dr MacLean asked: “Is that more than a box-ticking exercise?”  Dr Crawford answered candidly: “No, because, you know, it is the minister who has to sign it, but she was relying on the casework committee to do their job and to revert to her if there were any concerns with it.”

Judge ‘unconvinced’ as to why Spad never read £100k reports

Arlene Foster told the inquiry last week that she believed her Spad was at least reading the summary of reports which came to her and on which taxpayers had spent £100,000.  Dr Crawford now says that he did not read them. During one of several terse exchanges between inquiry chairman Sir Patrick Coghlin and Andrew Crawford,

The retired judge said to the former Spad: “You didn’t read any of the reports, we know that.”  Dr Crawford jumped in to say: “Sorry, we didn’t read any of the consultants’ reports; however, you know, we’ve been through the consultation documents and various submissions that came up from officials; yes, I did not read the consultants’ report, but I did not expect them to be at odds with what was in the submissions…”

Sir Patrick said: “Whatever you may have expected, you didn’t read the reports. You did rely on the bald statement that we see repeated on a number of occasions [that RHI was best value]…I remain unconvinced as to why the reports were not read at some stage; they weren’t even provided to you in the latter stage, you say.”

When asked if he had let the minister down by not reading the reports, he said: “Look, I let; I believe I let; I’m very sorry that I didn’t read it in detail to flag this up. However, I think the minister was asked the question ‘did she expect something to be different in the technical report compared to what she was either made aware of before or what was in the covering submission’, she would not expect that.

“So I do not think that there was an expectation there that I should be analysing technical reports and bringing things to her attention which are at odds of [sic] the submission that she is signing.  However, look – it is a regret of mine that I didn’t identify this and flag it up.”

I never saw minutes of any meeting in a decade, says Spad

Arlene Foster’s long-standing special adviser has said that in almost a decade at the heart of Stormont he never once saw minutes of a meeting involving his minister.  As the public inquiry delves deeper into the failure of Stormont officials to record key meetings, Andrew Crawford repeatedly insisted that the DUP had never asked for things not to be written down in order to avoid them becoming public under transparency laws, as claimed by the head of he civil service.  Dr Crawford was firmly told by inquiry chairman Sir Patrick Coghlin that he was wrong to describe Mr Sterling’s evidence about minute-taking as “innuendo”. Sir Patrick said: “It’s not an innuendo, so there’s no need to use works like innuendo, that is a fact. Whether you knew it or not will be the subject of the report eventually, but that is a fact.”

Later, Dr Crawford was asked if Mrs Foster’s private secretary, should have been saying to him or to the minister that other officials were failing to send her minutes of meetings within the minister, despite being obligated to do so.  Dr Crawford said: “It would be wrong for me to say that in this situation because I never seen [sic] any minutes from any meeting in any department so in this particular case, should [the private secretary] have came [sic] to me…and said ‘Andrew, I need a minute of that meeting’, bearing in mind that I didn’t do it before, it would be wrong for me to have said I should have done [sic] it in this case.”

Dr Keith MacLean asked whether it ought to have been “blatantly obvious” that minutes from ministerial meetings were never coming back to the minister’s private office.  Dr Crawford said: “I take your point, yes.” He said that he does not recall ever being aware of the requirement for a formal record of meeting involving the minister and for those minutes to be sent to the minister’s office.  When asked if he ought to have known about it to protect the minister, he said: “I ought to have known that notes weren’t taken of meetings…but in terms of it coming back down from the energy division to the private office, if I knew minutes were not being taken or notes were not being taken, call it what you may, I would have very much insisted that we get a copy of it…”

Barrister Joseph Aiken said: “The person whose job it was to make the record wasn’t making it, and the person whose job it was to receive the record wasn’t receiving it, and that person, who worked in with the minister and the special adviser…at no stage, based on what you’re explaining, felt the need to draw to your or the minister’s attention ‘we’re not getting any minutes of any of your meetings’.”  Dr Crawford said the issue was never drawn to his attention but that “key points from meetings that needed followed up” would have been sent to the minister’s office.

Mr Aiken asked: “How did it come to be that neither the official whose job it was to write them or the official whose job it was to receive them ever seem to have been concerned that they weren’t writing them or weren’t receiving them?”  Dr Crawford said that he did recall private office officials ensuring that those at meetings were taking notes of what was said but “I cannot answer how, if neither was doing their responsibility or duty, I don’t know where that happened or where that originated or where that started”.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on April 17, 2018, 12:16:02 PM
The largest chicken factory in the north was the main winner in this. They pay directly for the gas that heats all the chicken houses on the farmers land throughout the north. Maybe someone can tell me how many houses they control? This would be a colossal bill every month, along comes a scheme to heat these houses for nothing thus saving this chicken factory a fortune, tell me they had no role in this scheme
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Dire Ear on April 17, 2018, 12:35:06 PM
Rumours around Dungannon were that the chickenfactoryowners lawyers told Stormont to feck off and not to even bother attempting to take back or change any of the details of the initial contracts.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 17, 2018, 03:41:23 PM
At the end of May 2013, the UK government's energy minister Greg Barker wrote to Mrs Foster in which he explained that his department was making major cost control changes to the Great Britain RHI scheme.  The letter was referred to the DETI officials who were dealing with Northern Ireland's RHI initiative.  They said it was "similar" to an earlier letter from Mr Barker and no action was therefore needed.  But that wasn't true - the earlier letter had referred to completely different matters - and the chance to tell Mrs Foster about the cost control changes wasn't taken.  Dr Crawford says neither he nor Mrs Foster received the letter but "the minister should've seen all the correspondence coming from a Westminster department".

Foster may dodge a bullet on corruption but it's clear she didn't have the first notion about what RHI was, how it operated, how much it cost, who was running it and as important neither did her closest SPAD.  Why would all that be important when you're obsessed with making sure that street names in Irish don't appear and that gay people can't get married.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on April 17, 2018, 03:52:39 PM
At the end of May 2013, the UK government's energy minister Greg Barker wrote to Mrs Foster in which he explained that his department was making major cost control changes to the Great Britain RHI scheme.  The letter was referred to the DETI officials who were dealing with Northern Ireland's RHI initiative.  They said it was "similar" to an earlier letter from Mr Barker and no action was therefore needed.  But that wasn't true - the earlier letter had referred to completely different matters - and the chance to tell Mrs Foster about the cost control changes wasn't taken.  Dr Crawford says neither he nor Mrs Foster received the letter but "the minister should've seen all the correspondence coming from a Westminster department".

Foster may dodge a bullet on corruption but it's clear she didn't have the first notion about what RHI was, how it operated, how much it cost, who was running it and as important neither did her closest SPAD.  Why would all that be important when you're obsessed with making sure that street names in Irish don't appear and that gay people can't get married.

I think she knew only too well but Sam McBride believes there was a culture of sure Whitehall is picking up the tab, no need to worry and feather our friends nest.

The shit only hit the fan when it became apparent that wasn't the case and it was out of the local pot!

She'll get away Scot free on this one, but her competence is seriously under scrutiny not that that will matter to the voting base in Fermanagh or beyond.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Denn Forever on April 17, 2018, 05:35:23 PM
Are Sinn Féin doing the right  thing  by not putting the boot in?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on April 17, 2018, 06:21:01 PM
Are Sinn Féin doing the right  thing  by not putting the boot in?
Yes IMO.  It would only end up being a green v orange issue.  Better to leave it to journalists and other parties to stick the boot in as you say.  I would imagine that a lot of unionists would be embarrassed and dismayed at her ongoings.  Whether that would affect the Dup vote much is another matter.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: playwiththewind1st on April 17, 2018, 06:50:57 PM
Are Sinn Féin doing the right  thing  by not putting the boot in?

Why step  in, when Coghlin is laying into them & skewering them all roads??
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on April 17, 2018, 07:05:11 PM
At the end of May 2013, the UK government's energy minister Greg Barker wrote to Mrs Foster in which he explained that his department was making major cost control changes to the Great Britain RHI scheme.  The letter was referred to the DETI officials who were dealing with Northern Ireland's RHI initiative.  They said it was "similar" to an earlier letter from Mr Barker and no action was therefore needed.  But that wasn't true - the earlier letter had referred to completely different matters - and the chance to tell Mrs Foster about the cost control changes wasn't taken.  Dr Crawford says neither he nor Mrs Foster received the letter but "the minister should've seen all the correspondence coming from a Westminster department".

Foster may dodge a bullet on corruption but it's clear she didn't have the first notion about what RHI was, how it operated, how much it cost, who was running it and as important neither did her closest SPAD.  Why would all that be important when you're obsessed with making sure that street names in Irish don't appear and that gay people can't get married.

I'd say he knew fine rightly, sure didn't he give his relatives the heads-up about how much money they could make. If he was so incompetent, what was he being paid a £90k salary for? She I can understand to be as thick as pig shit and incompetent, but him? He's basically saying he's an idiot, rather than admitting he lied. And when you look at the evidence, that's probably his only defence
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on April 17, 2018, 09:47:16 PM
Hold on lads and lassies his cousin didn't put his first boiler in until nearly a year after he sent him the draft document (which was the first of 3 documents he sent over 3 yrs) and only put 6 in before the window closed for applications. And when was asked at the early stages of the inquiry if he has released any confidential information to family members he flat out denied it, but when they produced the email (which his cousin supplied to the inquiry) he just said he didn't remember doing it.
Its clear to be seen that Mr Dr Crawford (would love to know what he is a doctor of) is the scape goat for Snarlene and probably has been rewarded to do so.

Had to add this

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372 (https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372)

The text messages....lol
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on April 17, 2018, 10:41:03 PM
Hold on lads and lassies his cousin didn't put his first boiler in until nearly a year after he sent him the draft document (which was the first of 3 documents he sent over 3 yrs) and only put 6 in before the window closed for applications. And when was asked at the early stages of the inquiry if he has released any confidential information to family members he flat out denied it, but when they produced the email (which his cousin supplied to the inquiry) he just said he didn't remember doing it.
Its clear to be seen that Mr Dr Crawford (would love to know what he is a doctor of) is the scape goat for Snarlene and probably has been rewarded to do so.

Had to add this

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372 (https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372)

The text messages....lol

It's always been about lining their pockets with the DUP, from Red Sky to Nama to RHI and plenty of shenanigans before and after. Arlene's a busted flush. If she's still about by the time the RHI report is published (which I doubt), it will finish her. The only reason she is still here is her absolutely breathtaking arrogance
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on April 17, 2018, 10:57:30 PM
I don't know red hander, any other jurisdiction that would be the case but in this little corner of Ireland once the orange card is played alot is forgotten
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Therealdonald on April 18, 2018, 12:08:00 AM
Hold on lads and lassies his cousin didn't put his first boiler in until nearly a year after he sent him the draft document (which was the first of 3 documents he sent over 3 yrs) and only put 6 in before the window closed for applications. And when was asked at the early stages of the inquiry if he has released any confidential information to family members he flat out denied it, but when they produced the email (which his cousin supplied to the inquiry) he just said he didn't remember doing it.
Its clear to be seen that Mr Dr Crawford (would love to know what he is a doctor of) is the scape goat for Snarlene and probably has been rewarded to do so.

Had to add this

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372 (https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/crawford-back-with-dup-after-resigning-last-year-1-8455372)

The text messages....lol

Actually know that Anderson fella. If you want a laugh, there's a comment piece on Arlene and why shes right to leave if a United Ireland happens.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 18, 2018, 10:25:08 AM
Arlene Foster giving evidence again today.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Sweeper 123 on April 18, 2018, 10:27:06 AM
and it is definitely worth the watching .....struggling, stuttering, red face .....
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on April 18, 2018, 04:35:42 PM
MY GOD

How can anyone defend her - not matter how blinkered a religious, political, DUP view you have. And bare in mind this is a tame inquiry not really being too aggressive in questioning and still its damning!

This should be used as a key case study for why it is better to resign when you are responsible for something of such magnitude rather than go to an inquiry.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: yellowcard on April 18, 2018, 05:27:25 PM
Arlene Foster is as tough as old boots......according to..........herself!! Even if the report totally indicts her, I doubt very much if she will be resigning.


Mr Sterling said civil servants had "got into the habit" of not recording minutes of meetings with ministers because the DUP and Sinn Féin were sensitive to criticism.

The DUP leader says she "did smile when I read that".

She doesn't believe any politicians are not sensitive to criticism and "given what I came through last year I think I'm tougher than most".

"All politicians know they're going to be criticised on a day and daily basis," she says, adding that "you have to ask if you're in the right job" if you are sensitive to criticism.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 18, 2018, 05:39:52 PM
"Mrs Foster says she "wasn't aware of rumours going around" in 2014 that the RHI scheme was offering a "cash for ash".

Biomass boiler firms were advertising their products through the scheme at trade fair organised by Stormont's enterprise and agriculture departments and were using slogans such as "burn to earn".

Inquiry Sir Patrick Coghlin asks Mrs Foster what communications she had with then agriculture minister Michelle O'Neill "as to what was actually happening on the street... with 'burn-to-earn', 'cash-for-ash'".

She says she didn't know about that and adds that she was not engaging with farmers about what they were doing in relation to with the scheme.

"I know that may sound rather strange given that I am a Fermanagh and South Tyrone MLA, but it's the truth," she adds."


And I thought some of the evidence in the rugby trial didn't ring true!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 18, 2018, 05:41:18 PM
LAD is running with #IDon'tBelieveHer :D
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: StGallsGAA on April 19, 2018, 12:43:18 AM
"Mrs Foster says she "wasn't aware of rumours going around" in 2014 that the RHI scheme was offering a "cash for ash".

Biomass boiler firms were advertising their products through the scheme at trade fair organised by Stormont's enterprise and agriculture departments and were using slogans such as "burn to earn".

Inquiry Sir Patrick Coghlin asks Mrs Foster what communications she had with then agriculture minister Michelle O'Neill "as to what was actually happening on the street... with 'burn-to-earn', 'cash-for-ash'".

She says she didn't know about that and adds that she was not engaging with farmers about what they were doing in relation to with the scheme.

"I know that may sound rather strange given that I am a Fermanagh and South Tyrone MLA, but it's the truth," she adds."


And I thought some of the evidence in the rugby trial didn't ring true!

Foster is an indelible stain on the political, social and economic history of the country and that’s about as good as her legacy will ever read. 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on April 19, 2018, 08:21:53 AM
MY GOD

How can anyone defend her - not matter how blinkered a religious, political, DUP view you have. And bare in mind this is a tame inquiry not really being too aggressive in questioning and still its damning!

This should be used as a key case study for why it is better to resign when you are responsible for something of such magnitude rather than go to an inquiry.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: longballin on April 19, 2018, 10:18:35 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on April 19, 2018, 10:51:22 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

Is there no one in senior leadership in DUP that could take a step back and say this is making us look really bad and foolish - Arlene maybe its time to take early retirement?? It has to be doing the party serious harm
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on April 19, 2018, 10:58:14 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

Is there no one in senior leadership in DUP that could take a step back and say this is making us look really bad and foolish - Arlene maybe its time to take early retirement?? It has to be doing the party serious harm

Religious fundamentalists of any creed are never wrong.

Unionism has never accepting the part it played in causing the troubles here and until it does they'll never be at peace with themselves let alone their nationalist neighbours.

Any time a Unionist politician is faced with this issue they dress it up as Sinn Féin/ IRA trying to rewrite history.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 11:19:27 AM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?

There is hope, and that’s a new , safe , secure , non threatening “respect” majority.
Obviously , I’d love to see a United ireland , but I’ve lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding “NI”, nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like “NI” it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist  And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education,  equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it’s been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn’t a hair’s breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won’t allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter.  In 20 years time we’ll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs,  education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, “Middle of the roaders “ especially SDLP voters  need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That’s the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn’t sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They’re no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let’s foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national  question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We’ll get there!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orior on April 19, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: longballin on April 19, 2018, 12:06:23 PM
aye but Arlene could at least try to hide her bigotry and bitterness
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 12:10:42 PM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?

There is hope, and that’s a new , safe , secure , non threatening “respect” majority.
Obviously , I’d love to see a United ireland , but I’ve lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding “NI”, nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like “NI” it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist  And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education,  equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it’s been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn’t a hair’s breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won’t allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter.  In 20 years time we’ll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs,  education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, “Middle of the roaders “ especially SDLP voters  need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That’s the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn’t sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They’re no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let’s foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national  question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We’ll get there!

Good post.

One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: longballin on April 19, 2018, 12:40:50 PM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?

There is hope, and that’s a new , safe , secure , non threatening “respect” majority.
Obviously , I’d love to see a United ireland , but I’ve lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding “NI”, nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like “NI” it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist  And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education,  equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it’s been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn’t a hair’s breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won’t allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter.  In 20 years time we’ll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs,  education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, “Middle of the roaders “ especially SDLP voters  need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That’s the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn’t sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They’re no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let’s foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national  question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We’ll get there!

Good post.

One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side

That is the whole point of being a Repubican - take that away and you're a Unionist.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 12:53:40 PM
A few observations, firstly on Arlene as leader, everyone knows that Nigel has the real power at the moment. Secondly the whole debacle illustrates that unionists always expect higher standards from nationalists than they practice themselves, this is especially true when it comes to SF. And as the Carla Lockhart situation illustrates they are lacking in shame, an  I am not condoning the disgraceful trolling of her, but her own tweets are often offensive. finally the shinners are right to let it run.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 01:06:16 PM
You could equally say , until unionists drop any talk of remaining in the UK we’ll not engage with them.
There needs to be mutual respect, for each other’s position.

There are a significant minority of people on this island who would not feel comfortable in a simple United ireland ie an extension of Dáil jurisdiction into the six counties. Only very very unreasonable people would not respect those concerns. There is a school of thought among some unionists that fenians can’t be trusted ( which is ironic given RHI etc) and they fear being subsumed into a backwater banana republic. Several Economic parameters however very clearly place ROI in a much better place than NI .?
Brexit has really thrown the cat amongst the pigeons, but a variation of joint authority in a European context would have been much easier to keep unionists on board.

The only workable solution is developing a mutual respect within the six counties initially . Then pragmatically  concentrating on the economy , health , education in the short term, and  actually getting to a stage whereby politicians and civil servants can be mature enough to sit down and discuss and map the next 50-100 years . Nationalists /republicans must take the lead on this , as they are the stronger partner, and it’s up to them to build the confidence of unionists in any all-island solution. There’s a real chance to isolate and shrink the DUP by making them a ridiculed tiny minority in these islands. The rest of us can build an equal society, and they’ll eventually row in. On the other hand if we foster the growth of these extremists by being ungenerous or self-centred , future generations will remain beleaguered by conflict
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2018, 01:15:20 PM
An All Ireland with a working Stormont that effectively still looks after and governs the 'wee six' , it has a budget and a payoff from Britain to appease the local, but must have a time frame (20 years) to bring everything into line.. selling something like that could make the ones on the fence buy into it
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 02:23:13 PM
An All Ireland with a working Stormont that effectively still looks after and governs the 'wee six' , it has a budget and a payoff from Britain to appease the local, but must have a time frame (20 years) to bring everything into line.. selling something like that could make the ones on the fence buy into it
Yes, the key point is 20yr+ plan, securing rights and identity for the next generation. Hard even for the most ardent unionists not to back that. Ironically if such an approach was taken at the onset of the NI state with ingrained respect for identity for future generations, it could have worked much better. Ultimately it wasn’t the national question that started the conflict in NI from the 60s it was civil rights . Even the recent irretrievable  breakdown in Stormont might never  have happened if DUP respected Irish language/identity .
Give people respect, equality & opportunities and they’ll have no interest in undermining the state, and international opinion won’t let them get away with it.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 19, 2018, 02:59:54 PM
This was part of a discussion this morning around the whistleblower Janette O'Hagan:

=========================================================================

Mrs O'Hagan was "caught in the political crossfire" at the time of the RHI scandal publicly erupting in December 2016, accepts Mrs Foster.

The DUP's deputy leader Nigel Dodds published one of Ms O'Hagan's emails that month, saying that it "nails the myth" that Mrs Foster "failed to follow up" on concerns that were raised to her.

He said the email "raised no concerns" about the scheme and he claimed it was the "only contact with the minister" - that was, of course, incorrect and Mrs Foster accepts that now.


Sir Patrick suggests that one possibility for releasing Ms O'Hagan's email is that "she was fed to the wolves".

Ms O'Hagan told the inquiry in February that how her correspondence was handled at the time was a "complete disgrace".

The DUP leader says there was a "storm" about the scandal going on at the time and there was "a lot of firefighting" to "deal with the allegations that were being made".
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 03:40:48 PM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 19, 2018, 03:56:37 PM
One of the first companies to notice how lucrative the RHI scheme could be was Sheridan and Hood, which was owned by Brian Hood, who gave evidence to the inquiry in February.

He even suggested to Stormont's justice department that if it used the RHI scheme as part of a major emergency service college it was planning it could pocket just under £900,000 over 20 years.

His company was the first to be accredited on the scheme and he even received a certificate for that from Mrs Foster in March 2013.

The DUP leader can't remember meeting him.


Apart from to put on her crown brooch every morning, can she remember anything??
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 04:13:58 PM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

I think we need to get away from flags. We should encourage and foster identity but discourage “ in your face” territory marking.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 19, 2018, 04:28:32 PM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
its about mutual respect
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 04:41:42 PM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

I think we need to get away from flags. We should encourage and foster identity but discourage “ in your face” territory marking.

Funny you chose that word  ;D
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 04:44:15 PM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
its about mutual respect

Yes, but you're never going to achieve that with flegs and icons.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on April 19, 2018, 04:56:09 PM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?

There is hope, and that’s a new , safe , secure , non threatening “respect” majority.
Obviously , I’d love to see a United ireland , but I’ve lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding “NI”, nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like “NI” it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist  And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education,  equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it’s been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn’t a hair’s breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won’t allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter.  In 20 years time we’ll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs,  education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, “Middle of the roaders “ especially SDLP voters  need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That’s the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn’t sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They’re no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let’s foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national  question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We’ll get there!

Good post.

One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side

Bizarre  ::) So republicans should just drop the cornerstone of their existence because their political enemies don't like it? Jesus wept. Expect this sort of narrative to build up speed over the next few years from, particularly, west Brit commentators such as RDE, O Hanlon and Harris... there's been some articles already basically saying 'Stop talking about a united Ireland as it could destabilise the situation/upset unionists' ... in other words, dump your principles because the other side don't agree with them. And these same c***ts are always hammering on about 'democracy'
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 05:01:56 PM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
its about mutual respect

Respect and equality go hand in hand. I think part of the problem is when we describe culture here , we lump obviously antagonistic coattrailing ( flags/emblems/marches ) in with Seamus Heaney and CS Lewis. Let’s embrace and respect genuine culture , and call out antagonistic territory marking for what it is.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 05:11:09 PM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?

There is hope, and that’s a new , safe , secure , non threatening “respect” majority.
Obviously , I’d love to see a United ireland , but I’ve lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding “NI”, nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like “NI” it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist  And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education,  equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it’s been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn’t a hair’s breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won’t allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter.  In 20 years time we’ll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs,  education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, “Middle of the roaders “ especially SDLP voters  need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That’s the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn’t sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They’re no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let’s foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national  question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We’ll get there!

Good post.

One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side

Bizarre  ::) So republicans should just drop the cornerstone of their existence because their political enemies don't like it? Jesus wept. Expect this sort of narrative to build up speed over the next few years from, particularly, west Brit commentators such as RDE, O Hanlon and Harris... there's been some articles already basically saying 'Stop talking about a united Ireland as it could destabilise the situation/upset unionists' ... in other words, dump your principles because the other side don't agree with them. And these same c***ts are always hammering on about 'democracy'

This is about achieving a UNITED ireland. That’s only achievable with work, empathy and respect. Celebrating a victory and rubbing unionists nose in it, is not republicanism to me. We’ve been on the receiving end of that nonsense since 1690. Let’s show as a nation we’re different . I suspect this view would be welcomed  by 90% of people in a new Ireland, there’s your consensus.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 19, 2018, 05:24:33 PM
Last question to Foster before she finishes her evidence (until Sept).

David Scoffield QC:  To what extent does the buck stop with you?

Foster:  I can't be blamed for other people's mistakes.

She really has the mind of a child ::)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on April 19, 2018, 05:41:04 PM
Arlene is a bizarre character and a bizarre choice as unionist leader.
Her background has shaped her , and as she has been a victim, she at least deserves empathy and respect for her right to articulate her point of view.
Victims usually fall into 3 categories:
1. The Alan McBride type , who are the true heroes of the conflict and an inspiration to us all, determined to make sure they offer their loss to the benefit of all.
2. Those that cope in silence and remain under the radar as they try to cope with their loss , and get on with their lives( many struggle)
3. Those who remain bitter and resentful ( and we can all understand that) and can’t get past their loss, and probably feel a sense of responsibility not to let down those that have passed or were injured.

Arlene clearly falls into the 3rd category. Those entrenched in that bitterness, on both sides , are the biggest barrier to progress. Though I have complete empathy for their position, I feel they need to be respected but ultimately sidelined, so that we can rebuild a society which would be the ultimate legacy to all who have suffered and/or died.

Arlene’s upbringing , including the suffering of herself and family and friends. Appears to have left her very bitter, and she makes minimal attempts to hide that. She was dwarfed in the presence of Martin McGuinness in terms of reconciliation and respect.
I think we can over analyse her , but the mask well and truly slipped , when Kielty probed her thoughts for the future. The so-called “leader of unionism” would be on the first boat out of here, once unionism loses its majority. So in the other words , she shows complete disregard and disdain for the vast majority of those who have paid her wages and brought her to the ultimate office , as she waves them goodbye to move to a Britain , where ironically she’d be like a fish out of water.
These sentiments betray an over-riding anti-Irishness from her. We all know she appears to have absolutely no rapport with more than  50% of the whole community , but it’s incredible that she also has no respect or care for her own community, and future generations of those here that perceive themselves British .
Incidentally, if and when she goes back to her day job as a solicitor, she’ll struggle with credibility , as she comes across as someone for whom truth economy and reality denial is second nature.

Oh to see a fresh and magnanimous leader of unionism emerge , that actually see further than the next 10years . Unfortunately, I don’t think cultural unionism
Lends itself to such an approach.
I think the only solution short-medium term, is a consensus around equality and respect , with the national constitutional question becoming a side issue, and eventually sorting itself out.
That respect majority needs to expose and confront anyone who challenges normal civilised behaviour, eg orangeism, cultural bullying etc

if she wants to be a bitter bigot that's her call but to be in a position of leadership is appalling. What hope is there?

There is hope, and that’s a new , safe , secure , non threatening “respect” majority.
Obviously , I’d love to see a United ireland , but I’ve lived under British rule all my life and I can live it with it for a few more years, if it means that an All island solution is a peaceful one. That might mean a further 15-20 years of building a society on both sides of the border which embraces respect and equality. As we all know the six counties has never worked , probably because it was established on crudely sectarian lines, manufacturing a majority which has only last 100 years. Regarding “NI”, nationalists/republicans might be best being magnanimous in the short term and regardless of the challenges of power sharing , get on with running the statelet in the short term to save jobs, housing, education etc.
Does the GFA need to be revisited?
I think so,
It worked at the time and the mood and work of the 90s gave us 25 years of peace.
However like “NI” it was manufactured on sectarian lines, including perceived nationalist  And Unionist blocs, petition of concern etc. However what has it delivered in reality , in terms of jobs , investment , health , education,  equality? The Irish language is a perfect example , that would have been signed sealed delivered in a short time in any normal society ( eg Wales, Scotland) but here it’s been allowed to be blocked on sectarian lines.
In reality there isn’t a hair’s breadth between the vast majority of SF SDLP alliance , greens , and even UUP supporters in many issues . As has always been the case , this statelet , governance wise has been dictated by a small portion of the population who are essentially anti-Irish racists. The GFA as it stands will ingrain that bigotry for the foreseeable future. Even if SF become the largest party they will still have to dance to the DUP tune.
Political reality won’t allow a new party to emerge, so short term change will only occur if DUP is overtaken by UUP , alliance . The Only way to undermine the DUP is to unite under an equality/respect banner and expose their bigotry. Nationalists/republicans will have to be magnanimous and generous to a fault, to gain respect of the middle ground unionists, and isolate the DUP. Many unionists in my area are embarrassed by the DUP, we just need to extend that disdain for the DUP in the unionist heartlands. The DUP support will wain as voters realise they have delivered nothing but conflict . As time passes attitudes will hopefully soften , DUP relative vote numbers will decrease due to age demographics and emigration , and future generations will be further away from conflict and less bitter.  In 20 years time we’ll be a different place anyway. So now we need to play the long game. Concentrate on respect, jobs,  education , health, the things that are important to everybody .
And this is the key thing, “Middle of the roaders “ especially SDLP voters  need to wise up to the lazy analysis that SF and DUP are two sides of the same coin . That’s the convenient lie that perpetuates this conflict. SF have a history that doesn’t sit easy with many, but so did FF, FG etc. SF are close to being the largest party in the North, they promote a respect agenda . They’re no angels and certainly should be challenged, but blind antagonism towards them and equating them to the DUP, is letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook and keeping us where we are.
Let’s foster an equality and respect agenda that 80% of the population will buy in to, and grow a society at peace with itself. The national  question will sort itself out through a development of a culture of mutual respect , over a generation or more. We’ll get there!

Good post.

One point.......a major reason unionists will never vote for SF or even consider it is because SF constantly push a UI agenda when the vast vast majority of them dont want it.
Until SF drop this everything else they say is ignored by the other side

Bizarre  ::) So republicans should just drop the cornerstone of their existence because their political enemies don't like it? Jesus wept. Expect this sort of narrative to build up speed over the next few years from, particularly, west Brit commentators such as RDE, O Hanlon and Harris... there's been some articles already basically saying 'Stop talking about a united Ireland as it could destabilise the situation/upset unionists' ... in other words, dump your principles because the other side don't agree with them. And these same c***ts are always hammering on about 'democracy'

This is about achieving a UNITED ireland. That’s only achievable with work, empathy and respect. Celebrating a victory and rubbing unionists nose in it, is not republicanism to me. We’ve been on the receiving end of that nonsense since 1690. Let’s show as a nation we’re different . I suspect this view would be welcomed  by 90% of people in a new Ireland, there’s your consensus.

Where have I suggested this? I admire your optimism, though, over achieving reunification through 'work, empathy and respect', I really do.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 19, 2018, 05:54:57 PM
How else will it be achieved?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on April 19, 2018, 06:56:17 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.

How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Therealdonald on April 19, 2018, 07:02:14 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.

How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are

Why should we though? They are making themselves look as stupid as is humanly possible. Snarlene's comments at that trial are unbelievable. I'd hang tight, no Stormont until the next General Election, get Corbyn election and really put the buck to the bray.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on April 19, 2018, 07:23:16 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.

How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are

A UI has been on the back burner since the GFA and where did that get nationalism. Its only Brexit that has brought it back on the table
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on April 19, 2018, 07:24:29 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.

How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are

Why should we though? They are making themselves look as stupid as is humanly possible. Snarlene's comments at that trial are unbelievable. I'd hang tight, no Stormont until the next General Election, get Corbyn election and really put the buck to the bray.

Those circumstances would change the dynamic , but the fact remains getting an all island settlement is inevitable within the next 25 years. Just don’t want the lead up and the outcome to be marred by more conflict and more lost lives. If we show a magnanimity when we’re majority, that we were never afforded ourselves, then we are more likely to have a thriving nation
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on April 19, 2018, 07:37:04 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.

How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are

Why should we though? They are making themselves look as stupid as is humanly possible. Snarlene's comments at that trial are unbelievable. I'd hang tight, no Stormont until the next General Election, get Corbyn election and really put the buck to the bray.

Those circumstances would change the dynamic , but the fact remains getting an all island settlement is inevitable within the next 25 years. Just don’t want the lead up and the outcome to be marred by more conflict and more lost lives. If we show a magnanimity when we’re majority, that we were never afforded ourselves, then we are more likely to have a thriving nation
I really don't think that will be an issue.  You just have to look at the difference between nationalist controlled councils and unionist controlled ones to see that.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 19, 2018, 08:21:09 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.

How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are

Because that would mean actually doing something, and SF have nothing to offer themselves. Both sides deflect attention from their useless selves, by attacking the other.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on April 19, 2018, 10:40:58 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.

How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are

Because that would mean actually doing something, and SF have nothing to offer themselves. Both sides deflect attention from their useless selves, by attacking the other.

Aye sheer SF incompetence got them this far  ::)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: omagh_gael on April 19, 2018, 10:51:54 PM
This is up on the BBC website at the minute...


It is likely Catholics will outnumber Protestants by 2021 in Northern Ireland, according to a leading academic.

Dr Paul Nolan, who specialises in monitoring the peace process and social trends, told BBC News NI that there could be more Catholics than Protestants in Northern Ireland by the centenary of the foundation of the state.

However, he says unionists should not be too alarmed because you cannot necessarily equate being a Catholic with supporting a united Ireland.

Image caption
Census figures in 2011 showed a narrowing gap in the population
The last census in 2011 put the Protestant population at 48%, just 3% more than Catholics at 45%.

More recent figures from 2016 show that among those of working age 44% are now Catholic and 40% Protestant.

Image caption
Figures from 2016 of working age population
The difference is even more marked among schoolchildren with 51% Catholic, 37% Protestant.

Only among the over 60s is there a majority of Protestants with 57%, compared to Catholics on 35%.

Dr Nolan said: "Three years from now we will end up, I think, in the ironic situation on the centenary of the state where we actually have a state that has a Catholic majority."

Looking at the last census in 2011, Mr Nolan points out although 45% identified as being from a Catholic background, only 25% claimed an exclusively Irish identity.

Image caption
Figures among school-age children are more clear
He said: "The future of unionism depends entirely upon one thing - and I mean unionism with a small 'u' - it depends on winning the support of people who do not regard themselves to be unionists with a capital 'U'.

"In other words people who do not identify with the traditional trappings of unionism; people who would give their support for a UK government framework and that's a sizeable proportion of Catholics provided they are not alienated by any form of triumphalism or anything that seems to be a rejection of their cultural identity as nationalists."

What's next?
It is likely there will be "more examination of what a United Ireland might mean," according to Dr Nolan.

"Does it mean one parliament in Dublin or two parliaments? One in Belfast and one in Dublin?

"I think the more that gets unpacked, the more opinion will move back and forward. Its not going to go just in one direction.

Image caption
Dr Nolan warns not to rely too heavily on polls for an indication on support for a united Ireland
Dismissing opinion polls declaring support for a united Ireland, Dr Nolan says the polls ask the wrong question.

"If we got to the situation where people go into a polling booth and have to put the mark against a united Ireland, it's very hard for anyone to predict it. Just ask Hillary Clinton, ask David Cameron, ask Theresa May: were they right to put their faith in the opinion polls? I don't think so."

Meanwhile the Sinn Féin President Mary Lou McDonald responded to the DUP leader Arlene Foster saying she would "probably" leave in the event of a united Ireland.

Ms McDonald told BBC News NI: "Of course unionists have to be at home in a new Ireland. It has to be as much a home for Arlene Foster and her family as for mine.

"So, yes, let's have the discussion.

"As far as I'm concerned nothing is taboo. Let's talk about the flag, let's talk about the anthem, let's talk about every nuance and every aspect of Irish life north and south."

The View is on BBC One Northern Ireland at 22:40 BST


The bit in bold highlights the utter lunacy of the DUP's brexit policy. They couldn't have done anything more suicidal if they wanted to increase the potential small u vote.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 20, 2018, 11:49:02 AM
Mike Nesbitt was a beacon of light in the unionist world and tried to break away from the entrenched attitudes. And look what happened him.
No he didn't really, but that was because he was constrained. Unionists can legitimately expose a UK as we can a UI. I'd like to think that any future UI would give a place to loyalist icons and flags and identity in a way denied to the nationalist community at present.

Is that what it's all about though? Most nationalists in the North don't need a icon or flag to declare what or who they are. If you have to resort to that, well that explains a lot about you.
its about mutual respect

Yes, but you're never going to achieve that with flegs and icons.
Yes but if the state only reflects one identity that is an issue.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on April 20, 2018, 12:16:25 PM
It's interesting times certainly. A lot of Republicans are hanging their hope on 50%+1 catholic majority. Unfortunately that ain't going to work. Any new Ireland will have to be all encompassing, where a place exists for Unionists and Loyalists. It's a challenge to Nationalism and Republicanism to make the case. How it would work and what it would look like.
While Brexit is a challenge and a lot of doomsday scenarios are touted about, in reality it probably won't resemble the Mad Max scenario that some portray. SF seem to hope it will and are probably pushing for this. They hated Europe all along anyway and as the saying goes never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake. So they probably see an equation Brexit + demographics = UI.
Nationalism can't hang onto demographics or indeed Brexit to do this job for us. We must make the case.

Interestingly, last night on BBC's The View Christopher Stalford seem to see the value in making an honest case for the Union. If Unionism (ie: The DUP) were able to promote a society in NI where Nationalism had it's place and OO shows of strength, bonfires etc where more controlled or certainly less triumphalist for example, this would could placate a huge swathe of Nationalists who have no real strong desire to see a UI. There's a comfortable Nationalism out there. Brexit and other issues does poke it from time to time, but for the most part it's happy with its lot.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on April 20, 2018, 12:46:22 PM
It's interesting times certainly. A lot of Republicans are hanging their hope on 50%+1 catholic majority. Unfortunately that ain't going to work. Any new Ireland will have to be all encompassing, where a place exists for Unionists and Loyalists. It's a challenge to Nationalism and Republicanism to make the case. How it would work and what it would look like.
While Brexit is a challenge and a lot of doomsday scenarios are touted about, in reality it probably won't resemble the Mad Max scenario that some portray. SF seem to hope it will and are probably pushing for this. They hated Europe all along anyway and as the saying goes never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake. So they probably see an equation Brexit + demographics = UI.
Nationalism can't hang onto demographics or indeed Brexit to do this job for us. We must make the case.

Interestingly, last night on BBC's The View Christopher Stalford seem to see the value in making an honest case for the Union. If Unionism (ie: The DUP) were able to promote a society in NI where Nationalism had it's place and OO shows of strength, bonfires etc where more controlled or certainly less triumphalist for example, this would could placate a huge swathe of Nationalists who have no real strong desire to see a UI. There's a comfortable Nationalism out there. Brexit and other issues does poke it from time to time, but for the most part it's happy with its lot.
They would be wrong then.  A lot may be hanging their hat on 50%+1 in a border pole, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 20, 2018, 12:51:06 PM
It's interesting times certainly. A lot of Republicans are hanging their hope on 50%+1 catholic majority. Unfortunately that ain't going to work. Any new Ireland will have to be all encompassing, where a place exists for Unionists and Loyalists. It's a challenge to Nationalism and Republicanism to make the case. How it would work and what it would look like.
While Brexit is a challenge and a lot of doomsday scenarios are touted about, in reality it probably won't resemble the Mad Max scenario that some portray. SF seem to hope it will and are probably pushing for this. They hated Europe all along anyway and as the saying goes never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake. So they probably see an equation Brexit + demographics = UI.
Nationalism can't hang onto demographics or indeed Brexit to do this job for us. We must make the case.

Interestingly, last night on BBC's The View Christopher Stalford seem to see the value in making an honest case for the Union. If Unionism (ie: The DUP) were able to promote a society in NI where Nationalism had it's place and OO shows of strength, bonfires etc where more controlled or certainly less triumphalist for example, this would could placate a huge swathe of Nationalists who have no real strong desire to see a UI. There's a comfortable Nationalism out there. Brexit and other issues does poke it from time to time, but for the most part it's happy with its lot.
They would be wrong then.  A lot may be hanging their hat on 50%+1 in a border pole, and there is nothing wrong with that.
You can hang anything you want on a border pole, its the result of the poll though that counts. ;D
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on April 20, 2018, 02:05:09 PM
50% +1 in a catholic majority is a far cry from 50% +1 in a border poll
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on April 20, 2018, 02:22:26 PM
50% +1 in a catholic majority is a far cry from 50% +1 in a border poll

Hard brexit means more greens and alliance voters supporting UI than UK according to the recent lucid talk poll many who whould be neither catholic nor republican. This crap that people are afraid of changing the status quo has been blown apart by brexit. After all how is a United Ireland any more of a change than brexit. They both change the status quo in fact a UI within the EU would probably be less of a hiccup.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on April 20, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.

I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on April 20, 2018, 03:35:22 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.

I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.

Hmmm, yes and no.  I'm the wrong side of 50 and there's been more serious talk about a UI in the last 18 months than in the previous 95 years!  I know a lot of soft and small "n" Nationalists who are very unhappy about Brexit.  They are persuadable, so are the Kellie Armstrong types in Alliance, a lot of Greens and there must be some unknowns who would vote for a UI.  This is going to sound a wee bit callous but if we persuade all those then we don't need that many Unionists to change their minds to make 50%+1 a possibility.  The issue might be, what do we do after that!?

I've said this before but what's needed is a grouping to come forward, along the lines of the business people who sent the letter to Leo recently, who are not directly affiliated to SF to lead a UI campaign.  We also need robust answers to all the questions that will be asked about what a UI will look like.  There's about 5 years work there alone.

Also, I must say I've often been critical of Colum Eastwood but I thought he was very good on The View last night in a "debate", of sorts, with Christopher Stalford and Kellie Armstrong.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on April 20, 2018, 03:42:14 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.

I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.

Hmmm, yes and no.  I'm the wrong side of 50 and there's been more serious talk about a UI in the last 18 months than in the previous 95 years!  I know a lot of soft and small "n" Nationalists who are very unhappy about Brexit.  They are persuadable, so are the Kellie Armstrong types in Alliance, a lot of Greens and there must be some unknowns who would vote for a UI.  This is going to sound a wee bit callous but if we persuade all those then we don't need that many Unionists to change their minds to make 50%+1 a possibility.  The issue might be, what do we do after that!?

I've said this before but what's needed is a grouping to come forward, along the lines of the business people who sent the letter to Leo recently, who are not directly affiliated to SF to lead a UI campaign.  We also need robust answers to all the questions that will be asked about what a UI will look like.  There's about 5 years work there alone.

Also, I must say I've often been critical of Colum Eastwood but I thought he was very good on The View last night in a "debate", of sorts, with Christopher Stalford and Kellie Armstrong.

Kinda looked like Stalford fancied him! Don't know much about him but he did a way better job than Arlene but then again she can't remember anything!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 20, 2018, 04:28:29 PM
50% +1 in a catholic majority is a far cry from 50% +1 in a border poll

Hard brexit means more greens and alliance voters supporting UI than UK according to the recent lucid talk poll many who whould be neither catholic nor republican. This crap that people are afraid of changing the status quo has been blown apart by brexit. After all how is a United Ireland any more of a change than brexit. They both change the status quo in fact a UI within the EU would probably be less of a hiccup.

This is an excellent point. one thing the Unionists had on their side was the status quo and the fact many people oppose change. Brexit has meant there's going to be change now regardless.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 20, 2018, 04:43:07 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.

I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.

Exactly. Especially now with reduced unionist majority/Brexit etc, unionism should be bending over backwards to show nationalists they're better off in The uk. Likewise, for SF.

Instead it's "no surrender" and "tiocfaidh ar la".
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 20, 2018, 04:46:40 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.

I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.

Hmmm, yes and no.  I'm the wrong side of 50 and there's been more serious talk about a UI in the last 18 months than in the previous 95 years!  I know a lot of soft and small "n" Nationalists who are very unhappy about Brexit.  They are persuadable, so are the Kellie Armstrong types in Alliance, a lot of Greens and there must be some unknowns who would vote for a UI.  This is going to sound a wee bit callous but if we persuade all those then we don't need that many Unionists to change their minds to make 50%+1 a possibility.  The issue might be, what do we do after that!?

I've said this before but what's needed is a grouping to come forward, along the lines of the business people who sent the letter to Leo recently, who are not directly affiliated to SF to lead a UI campaign.  We also need robust answers to all the questions that will be asked about what a UI will look like.  There's about 5 years work there alone.

Also, I must say I've often been critical of Colum Eastwood but I thought he was very good on The View last night in a "debate", of sorts, with Christopher Stalford and Kellie Armstrong.

Aye, and how is that coming along? What has Leo Lickspittle done so far?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 20, 2018, 04:52:08 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.

I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.

Exactly. Especially now with reduced unionist majority/Brexit etc, unionism should be bending over backwards to show nationalists they're better off in The uk. Likewise, for SF.

Instead it's "no surrender" and "tiocfaidh ar la".
Agreed.  Also hard to fathom how the DUP could not see the potential damage to the Union when supporting Brexit, particulary when it was fairly obvious that Scotland was likely to vote remain.  Perhaps, like most people, they felt that the leavers were unlikely to win.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2018, 05:29:50 PM
Whatever about SDLP,  FG FF etc isn't it time SF in particular started telling people what way they see the new All Ireland set up.
Wouldn't have to be in detail -just a broad outline.
It would certainly be better than chanting the "Border poll now" mantra.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on April 20, 2018, 05:34:53 PM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.

I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.

Exactly. Especially now with reduced unionist majority/Brexit etc, unionism should be bending over backwards to show nationalists they're better off in The uk. Likewise, for SF.

Instead it's "no surrender" and "tiocfaidh ar la".
Agreed.  Also hard to fathom how the DUP could not see the potential damage to the Union when supporting Brexit, particulary when it was fairly obvious that Scotland was likely to vote remain.  Perhaps, like most people, they felt that the leavers were unlikely to win.

Read an article online about six months ago that suggested this re the DUP. Can't for the life of me remember the web address etc, but the guy said his sources told him the DUP was persuaded by right-wing elements within the Tory party to throw its weight blindly behind Brexit. These elements, incl Gove and Johnson, didn't actually believe the UK would vote for it, despite their posturing since the referendum, but the DUP would do itself no harm and in the process enhance its ultra British image. There may or may not be any truth in it.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 20, 2018, 06:03:48 PM
Very possible.  Whilst Arlene doesn't appear to be the sharpest knife in the drawer, wee Nigel is no dozer.  Why it's hard to see how he could not see the potential impact on the union(i.e. Potential break-up) if Scotland voted remain in an overal UK leave vote.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on April 20, 2018, 06:10:20 PM
the more i see of her the more inclined i would be to think that lining her own pocket would be a more likely reason for the support of brexit.

That inquiry is a farce. She is lying through her teeth. Good christian my arse.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 20, 2018, 08:11:04 PM
DUP supported Brexit assuming it would fail. And at same time, showing the rest of UK that they are the most british of all the Brits in the UK's jurisdictions.

Then when Brexit happens, they had to actually follow through with their patriotic charade.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: red hander on April 20, 2018, 09:06:06 PM
DUP supported Brexit assuming it would fail. And at same time, showing the rest of UK that they are the most british of all the Brits in the UK's jurisdictions.

Then when Brexit happens, they had to actually follow through with their patriotic charade.

Yep, that's what guy was basically saying in article, but that Tory right planted the initial seed
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 23, 2018, 10:44:25 AM
Whatever about SDLP,  FG FF etc isn't it time SF in particular started telling people what way they see the new All Ireland set up.
Wouldn't have to be in detail -just a broad outline.
It would certainly be better than chanting the "Border poll now" mantra.
Actually Mary Lou in that programme said that in the event of a UI everything was up for discussion and that Unionists had to feel welcome (paraphrasing). This is a refreshing change, coupled with what I thought was an excellent contribution from Colm Eastwood. Stalford deserves some credit as well for his approach.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 23, 2018, 10:46:09 AM
If Stalford wants a long political career he should expect to be a minister in a UI.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on April 23, 2018, 10:58:52 AM
Whatever about SDLP,  FG FF etc isn't it time SF in particular started telling people what way they see the new All Ireland set up.
Wouldn't have to be in detail -just a broad outline.
It would certainly be better than chanting the "Border poll now" mantra.
Actually Mary Lou in that programme said that in the event of a UI everything was up for discussion and that Unionists had to feel welcome (paraphrasing). This is a refreshing change, coupled with what I thought was an excellent contribution from Colm Eastwood. Stalford deserves some credit as well for his approach.
100%
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 23, 2018, 11:25:24 AM
Some years ago Robinson was talking at a DUPUDA annual conference of making the Union more attractive to Catholics.
Then Belfast City Council stopped flying the Butcher's and he jumped back behind the tribal barricade.
The Dupes and Unionist majority Councils seem totally unwilling to take any cognisance of the fact there are 2 Nationalities in the 6 Cos.

I agree. But it will be to their detriment. A happy Nationalist isn't talking about a UI.

Exactly. Especially now with reduced unionist majority/Brexit etc, unionism should be bending over backwards to show nationalists they're better off in The uk. Likewise, for SF.

Instead it's "no surrender" and "tiocfaidh ar la".
Agreed.  Also hard to fathom how the DUP could not see the potential damage to the Union when supporting Brexit, particulary when it was fairly obvious that Scotland was likely to vote remain.  Perhaps, like most people, they felt that the leavers were unlikely to win.
The DUP have a number of clowns that would see Brexit as putting one over on nationalists and the Republic.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on April 23, 2018, 02:18:59 PM
I want a UI as much as the next man however the current process is just going to to make them dig their heels in more.

How about trying a different tactic and putting a UI on sideburner and making the Unionists look like the petty fools they are

Because that would mean actually doing something, and SF have nothing to offer themselves. Both sides deflect attention from their useless selves, by attacking the other.

Aye sheer SF incompetence got them this far  ::)

Well that and a little bit of voter fraud...
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Armamike on April 23, 2018, 03:31:57 PM
Whatever about SDLP,  FG FF etc isn't it time SF in particular started telling people what way they see the new All Ireland set up.
Wouldn't have to be in detail -just a broad outline.
It would certainly be better than chanting the "Border poll now" mantra.

I'm not sure if they have a vision for how it could look, or SDLP either. Certainly any time I've seen reps from either party asked about it they've badly struggled to give an answer.  One possibility would be a federal type of set up which gives people at a more regional level some autonomy.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 23, 2018, 05:25:25 PM
As I've been saying for 10 or so years a Confederation of the 2 existing Jurisdictions with the terms of the GFA applying to the 6 Cos.
Slimmed down versions of the Dáil and Stormont to run local affairs in their Semi Autonomous Areas.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 23, 2018, 06:18:14 PM
As I've been saying for 10 or so years a Confederation of the 2 existing Jurisdictions with the terms of the GFA applying to the 6 Cos.
Slimmed down versions of the Dáil and Stormont to run local affairs in their Semi Autonomous Areas.

Can you really see that happening? I mean, the DUP can't sit down in Stormont with Nationalist parties under a British governmental system. They unlikely to sit down in Stormont under a United Ireland system.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 23, 2018, 06:49:33 PM
We're talking about a different world altogether .......
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 23, 2018, 10:06:24 PM
As I've been saying for 10 or so years a Confederation of the 2 existing Jurisdictions with the terms of the GFA applying to the 6 Cos.
Slimmed down versions of the Dáil and Stormont to run local affairs in their Semi Autonomous Areas.
If there is no real change, what's the point?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 23, 2018, 11:27:38 PM
No more British Rule.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on April 24, 2018, 07:11:16 AM
No more British Rule.
Not sure all the folk taking the Queen's coin will be in favour.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 07:18:34 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on April 24, 2018, 08:25:27 AM
The current neanderthal biggots that lead unionism will never consider a UI.

I dont say this lightly but I firmly believe we would go back to a war before unionism would agree to a UI
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 24, 2018, 08:35:24 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: GJL on April 24, 2018, 08:46:08 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.

It sounds a bit like asking people to vote for Brexit without having a fciking clue what it would mean. Imagine!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 09:01:21 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.
Tell us what you think it would mean for Health,Education for starters....never mind trying to sell to the loyalist population
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ziggysego on April 24, 2018, 09:18:22 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark

My friend is Protestant and comes from a very proud Unionist family with a capital U. His father and uncle were high ranking RUC officers.

My friend is a Nationalist with a capital N and small r.

So not all Catholics are Nationalists, but no one says not all Protestants are Unionists.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: gallsman on April 24, 2018, 09:21:06 AM
My friend is a Nationalist with a capital N and small r.

There's an "r" in nationalist?!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ziggysego on April 24, 2018, 09:22:09 AM
My friend is a Nationalist with a capital N and small r.

There's an "r" in nationalist?!

Republican lol
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on April 24, 2018, 09:39:44 AM
I don't know how the rest of you all feel but I am starting to worry more about what the British have planned for over here. You can be sure our interests will not matter one fook.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: omagh_gael on April 24, 2018, 09:42:32 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark

My friend is Protestant and comes from a very proud Unionist family with a capital U. His father and uncle were high ranking RUC officers.

My friend is a Nationalist with a capital N and small r.

So not all Catholics are Nationalists, but no one says not all Protestants are Unionists.

Bit of Daddy issues going on there, Zig? Aul Oedipus wouldn't have a look in!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Farrandeelin on April 24, 2018, 09:54:10 AM
I don't know how the rest of you all feel but I am starting to worry more about what the British have planned for over here. You can be sure our interests will not matter one fook.

Of course not. They won't pay anything if a united Ireland ever does come about either.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 24, 2018, 10:04:39 AM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.
Tell us what you think it would mean for Health,Education for starters....never mind trying to sell to the loyalist population
It's not up to me, I'm not a politician, neither am I selling a UI. I would want to see how it affects me personally before voting.What I am saying is that your statement needs qualification because no one will vote positively for something not knowing the impact of a yes vote. If Brexit teaches us anything it is that if people are leaning in a certain direction it is easier to persuade them.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on April 24, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 10:43:34 AM
I don't know how the rest of you all feel but I am starting to worry more about what the British have planned for over here. You can be sure our interests will not matter one fook.
And you can be sure that Merkel, Macron and the right wingers in Austria Poland Hungary etc arent too concerned about us either. Maybe if we offered Putin the use of Knock Airport we might be looked after
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 10:47:52 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.

You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy isthere through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.

You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war

People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.

Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 24, 2018, 11:01:20 AM
My friend is a Nationalist with a capital N and small r.

There's an "r" in nationalist?!

Yeah, I wondered about that myself  ;D
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on April 24, 2018, 11:04:59 AM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.

You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war

People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.

Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.

How do we know they would be looking this?

While only a small sample any that I know and have discussed with wont consider a UI.
End of.

As I say if a UI was close it wouldnt be hard for the neanderthals to whip up a frenzy and go back to a civil war.

It didnt take much to whip up a frenzy about the flegs. And that was only about flying a fleg.

Imagine it was about a UI. Doesnt bare thinking about
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on April 24, 2018, 11:38:37 AM
What impact would a loyalist uprising be. How many guns are they in possession of at this point of time. The way it could play out of course is that britian hands back the north but they supply the loyalist with the weapons they need to keep the place in turmoil just like what is happening in the middle east.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on April 24, 2018, 12:23:16 PM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.

You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy isthere through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war
He shouldn't be attacked for that position as it is reasonably accurate as things stand. It is up to SF/SDLP to persuade.That also would involve showing public sector wprkers how they would be better off in a UI.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 12:25:46 PM
People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.

Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.

How do we know they would be looking this?

While only a small sample any that I know and have discussed with wont consider a UI.

In general, the idea that Nationalists are influenced by money more than Unionists is rather condescending.
Pretty much any Alliance type voter is willing to look at the detail. Many of the Nesbitt faction of UU voter also, opinion polls show a quarter of UU voters in favour of an Irish language act.

Big U Unionists are a declining minority in NI, so the issue will be determined by the rest.

Of course some loyalists would stir trouble, which is why a period of talk is needed.

What impact would a loyalist uprising be. How many guns are they in possession of at this point of time. The way it could play out of course is that britian hands back the north but they supply the loyalist with the weapons they need to keep the place in turmoil just like what is happening in the middle east.


It isn't in Britain's interest to do this, they don't want NI really and having British terrorism become famous would not be especially helpful to Britain. Some shady elements might provide assistance to loyalists, but I doubt if they would nowadays get much official backing. It isn't like the Middle East, where Britain is keeping in with the US, the US would not favour stirring irredentist loyalists.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on April 24, 2018, 12:26:48 PM
What impact would a loyalist uprising be. How many guns are they in possession of at this point of time. The way it could play out of course is that britian hands back the north but they supply the loyalist with the weapons they need to keep the place in turmoil just like what is happening in the middle east.


Any loyalists paramilitary group can be bought off, any of them, It’s not Slab your talking about here.
The biggest worries would be the violence on the street fueled by unionists in office. They would provoke as much upheaval as they could before defecting to their prearranged residences in Scotland and the like.
If a UI became a reality some backlash is a given.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on April 24, 2018, 12:31:20 PM
Alliance voters might look at detail but that doesnt mean in any shape or form they want or would agree to a UI.
If some reject it you can bet your bottom dollar the frenzy whipped up would be unreal and they would take to the streets like the hardliners.

As I said before a fleg caused carnage in the north - a proposed UI would be 100 tiems worse
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 12:40:48 PM
Alliance voters might look at detail but that doesnt mean in any shape or form they want or would agree to a UI.
If some reject it you can bet your bottom dollar the frenzy whipped up would be unreal and they would take to the streets like the hardliners.

As I said before a fleg caused carnage in the north - a proposed UI would be 100 tiems worse

Opinion polls show that two thirds of Alliance  voters favoured a UI in the event of a hard Brexit, so presumably they are open to discussion on the matter.

As for carnage, what do you want, wait until the Loyalists grow up or until some nationalist group promises great carnage?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on April 24, 2018, 12:43:07 PM
Alliance voters might look at detail but that doesnt mean in any shape or form they want or would agree to a UI.
If some reject it you can bet your bottom dollar the frenzy whipped up would be unreal and they would take to the streets like the hardliners.

As I said before a fleg caused carnage in the north - a proposed UI would be 100 tiems worse

Opinion polls show that two thirds of Alliance  voters favoured a UI in the event of a hard Brexit, so presumably they are open to discussion on the matter.

As for carnage, what do you want, wait until the Loyalists grow up or until some nationalist group promises great carnage?

I dont want carnage at all. Simply pointing out the consequences of a UI
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on April 24, 2018, 12:52:04 PM
Ok the last lucid talk poll had in the event of a hard brexit a majority supporting a UI. It also showed more Alliance and Green voters backing a UI over UK. These are the voters that need persuading not DUP or even UUP voters. If the Alliance types are interested and the vast majority are pro EU then the numbers are already there. I have talked about this before castle catholics were happy to stay in the UK because they were happy with the status quo, well Brexit has completely changed the status quo so suddenly a UI doesnt seem to be any bigger a jump in the dark than Brexit. Only a super fudge on customs union and the softest of brexits is going to save the day and if that happens then the Tory party will tear itself apart so all in all its a win-win-win situation.
Next about this loyalist uprising
The PSNI have the loyalists wrapped up they know who all the players are and tolerate their criminality just for the ease
The fleg protests were a joke within a few weeks it was one man and his dog stuff, likewise Twadell and was just giving people like LAD mountains of material to take the piss. The days of the workers strikes or the anglo irish agreement protests are finished
The IRA were able to cause trouble because  they had money form America, arms from Libya and were able to easily take refuge across the border. Loyalists will have none of this. Loyalists will neither have the British army supporting them and covering them when it suited them. An uprising by a few mad men could cause initial mayhem but it would be stopped very very swiftly
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: north_antrim_hound on April 24, 2018, 12:54:34 PM
If Scotland had independence prior to a UI referendum therefore throwing the union to the annals of history then a UI might be more expectable to hard loyalists, well it would lessen resistance. But I think it’s unrealistic not to expect some violence.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AhNowRef on April 24, 2018, 01:18:58 PM
The current neanderthal biggots that lead unionism will never consider a UI.

I dont say this lightly but I firmly believe we would go back to a war before unionism would agree to a UI

Its a lot harder to murder people when you dont have swathes of the RUC, UDR, BA & MI5 behind you, supplying & directing you and helping you escape after the event...  The Loyalists wont have that....

Anyway, if there was a vote for an UI, what exactly would they be fighting for ?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 01:22:09 PM
The assumption that everyone from a Nationalist background would vote for a UI is way off the mark
This is peddled all the time. It should be qualified by saying the assupmtion that anyone would vote for a UI without knowing what it means for them and society is wrong. The challenge for nationalists and I believe that both SDLP and SF are now starting to get to grips with this, is what it would look like, how it affects peoples pockets and what will loyalist reaction be. It is a nonsense to ask people to vote otherwise.

It sounds a bit like asking people to vote for Brexit without having a fciking clue what it would mean. Imagine!
That would never happen. The British are too intelligent to even think about that.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 01:25:26 PM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.

You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war

People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.

Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.

You obviously havent read the "main nationalist party" money grows on trees economic policy
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 24, 2018, 05:52:46 PM
Firstly SF and SDLP need to say how they see the future All Ireland State.
Then  the Nationalist/Catholic demographic becomes the bigger and as the votes for the Nationalist Parties outnumber those of the Unionist parties.
As the clamour for a  "Border Poll" grows it will be time for another "New Ireland Forum" to discuss and reach some kind of concensus on the shape of a new All Ireland State.
Then have the Poll.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2018, 06:10:55 PM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.

You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war

People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.

Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.

You obviously havent read the "main nationalist party" money grows on trees economic policy

I have read it, I just don't believe it.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on April 24, 2018, 07:55:45 PM
I'm not assuming that's your position, it's when the media have headlines like Catholics to me in the majority by 2020 eg. I know lots of Catholics who would prefer to stay part of the UK than a UI, mainly those that are civil servants, work in health and education.

You will be attacked for that suggestion but I believe that there is a significant amount of Catholics that would be happy to stay with Britain. Unless the Republic and those advocating a U.I. come up with a very strong economic argument those people wont change their minds.
I would believe that the country would be better off and that the potential for a good economy is there through agriculture tourism fishing pharma and I.T. but its not worth a civil war

People working health and education would carry on in their jobs are usual.
However, the general point is that people are fully entitled to ask for a proper plan and almost as many people from a Protestant background would be looking carefully at this. One problem is that the main nationalist party in the 6 counties has little economic credibility and spend their time telling the people of the 26 counties how badly off they are.

Provided the present Brexit crisis can be sorted then there is time to have a thorough discussion on these issues.

You obviously havent read the "main nationalist party" money grows on trees economic policy

I have read it, I just don't believe it.
Of course their "magic beans" policy should get a lot of support as well
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Therealdonald on April 24, 2018, 09:59:21 PM
Firstly SF and SDLP need to say how they see the future All Ireland State.
Then  the Nationalist/Catholic demographic becomes the bigger and as the votes for the Nationalist Parties outnumber those of the Unionist parties.
As the clamour for a  "Border Poll" grows it will be time for another "New Ireland Forum" to discuss and reach some kind of concensus on the shape of a new All Ireland State.
Then have the Poll.

Don't agree. For us in the North, it doesn't matter what the new state looks like, it'll be an All Ireland one which was what was campaigned for and is now being voted for.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on April 24, 2018, 10:22:01 PM
Firstly SF and SDLP need to say how they see the future All Ireland State.
Then  the Nationalist/Catholic demographic becomes the bigger and as the votes for the Nationalist Parties outnumber those of the Unionist parties.
As the clamour for a  "Border Poll" grows it will be time for another "New Ireland Forum" to discuss and reach some kind of concensus on the shape of a new All Ireland State.
Then have the Poll.

The vision for a New Ireland has to come from the sitting government in the Dail.
Anything else would be just fluff
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orior on April 26, 2018, 05:02:54 PM
Will Snarlene be tweeting her congratulations?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-43910560 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-43910560)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Aristo 60 on April 26, 2018, 05:08:36 PM
Who's the daddy?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 26, 2018, 06:16:55 PM
Who's the daddy?

And in Tom Daley's case... Who's the mummy?

What a fcuked up world we inhabit.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on April 26, 2018, 06:42:56 PM
Who's the daddy?

And in Tom Daley's case... Who's the mummy?

What a fcuked up world we inhabit.
You're right, why couldnt things just stay the way they are?  Everyone would be better for it.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Therealdonald on April 26, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
See Arlene on the warpath again, you couldnt write this stuff
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on April 26, 2018, 08:11:54 PM
Breakdown of trust....

Sure how could you ever trust that woman so a bit of pot kettle black.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Denn Forever on April 27, 2018, 11:34:21 AM
Trump is coming to England on 13th July.  As the DUP are a  component of the British government, Arlene could invite him to a12th demonstration (Trump's mammy's could have been planters).  Then it wwould be a quick spin to Knock airport where he could get Airforce One over to Britain.  Wouldn't need to stop at the Bascilica.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: macdanger2 on April 27, 2018, 06:05:44 PM
Unionist elected to Seanad Éireann with the support of FG and SF, what are the odds
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on April 27, 2018, 06:30:32 PM
Just saw that on the News there now.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on April 27, 2018, 07:26:59 PM
From Markethill no less.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on April 27, 2018, 07:28:56 PM
From Markethill no less.

Not the first one, Seamas Mallon was in the Seanad a while.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on April 27, 2018, 07:34:50 PM
From Markethill no less.

Not the first one, Seamas Mallon was in the Seanad a while.

And they don't make them like him anymore
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on April 27, 2018, 07:39:09 PM
Jaysus, next we'll see Arlene serving communion at the Pope's mass in Knock.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on April 27, 2018, 07:41:44 PM
Jaysus, next we'll see Arlene serving communion at the Pope's mass in Knock.

Think she's double booked .....throwing ball in in Ulster final at Clones😜
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 07:22:20 AM
"Typical Indian"......How John Taylor described Leo Varadkar....claims it's not racist.
So many people live in a parallel universe
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on May 01, 2018, 07:35:22 AM
He's not racist though. He helps indians out ::)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: omaghjoe on May 01, 2018, 07:52:37 AM
 :D :D :D

You couldn't make it up.

What did Leo do in particular? set up a crease on the hard shoulder of the A1?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 01, 2018, 08:20:21 AM
From Markethill no less.

Not the first one, Seamas Mallon was in the Seanad a while.

And they don't make them like him anymore
Thank God
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 08:31:08 AM
From Markethill no less.

Not the first one, Seamas Mallon was in the Seanad a while.

And they don't make them like him anymore
Thank God

The current state of politics in NI clearly shows how people like Seamus and John Hume are very badly missed.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on May 01, 2018, 08:38:51 AM
It came from two things - him previously having gotten away with hateful speech, and the horrible attitude of the unionism towards Varadkar, including them giving out about him not telling them about his visit, when he had correctly followed protocol.

Stalford and Swann getting congratulated on twitter for 'calling it out' - when they and their parties have at least some responsibility for it. Scumbags.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on May 01, 2018, 08:39:16 AM
From Markethill no less.

Not the first one, Seamas Mallon was in the Seanad a while.

And they don't make them like him anymore
Thank God

The current state of politics in NI clearly shows how people like Seamus and John Hume are very badly missed.
John Hume yes Seamus Mallon no.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 08:40:40 AM
What did Seamus do?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orior on May 01, 2018, 08:51:25 AM
Wee Jeffrey says Varadkar did not follow British protocol, but Leo says he did. Is wee Jeffrey going to apologise?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 08:52:15 AM
Wee Jeffrey says Varadkar did not follow British protocol, but Leo says he did. Is wee Jeffrey going to apologise?

They never apologise
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on May 01, 2018, 09:22:40 AM
What did Seamus do?

He called SF out on their hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 01, 2018, 09:32:23 AM
What did Seamus do?

He called SF out on their hypocrisy.

He was never afraid to call a spade a spade.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Snapchap on May 01, 2018, 11:12:28 AM
What did Seamus do?

He called SF out on their hypocrisy.

He was never afraid to call a spade a spade.

That's the sort of nonsense line you'd have heard from Trump supporters during the presidential election - "he calls a spade a spade". Lots of people call a spade a spade, but what they say can still be nasty and bitter.

Seamus Mallon was as nasty and bitter as they come. It was he (along with Joe Hendron and others in the SDLP) who orchestrated a vindictive, backstabbing campaign against John Hume and generally made life misery for Hume when he began talking to SF. He's a man who described the population of West Belfast as "savages" (something he has never apologised for). It was he who described the killers of 12 year old Majella O'Hare as "the crucifiers of Ireland", only to later discover that it was the British Army who killed her and not the IRA as he had been proclaiming to the world. He is a man who has stated that he regrets not siding with David Trimble in trying to "exclude" SF from government in the lead up to decommissioning. It was interesting to see his attitude in the recent documentary on Gerry Adams by Vincent Browne. Every last participant in the documentary, summing up Adams at the end (including his staunchest critics), gave him credit for his work for peace and/or his leadership skills. Except for one: Seamus Mallon, who used it as an opportunity to expose his sheer bitterness. The man never got over democracy. Sinn Féin steamrolled the SDLP and he has never gotten over it and that is his big problem.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2018, 12:11:02 PM
:D :D :D

You couldn't make it up.

What did Leo do in particular? set up a crease on the hard shoulder of the A1?

Probably promoting that curried yoghurt.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on May 02, 2018, 10:27:23 AM
What did Seamus do?
Whinger, still is and fought against Hume at every step. The current state of the SDLP is a result of the personal fiefdoms Mallon, Rodgers and other key figures constructed, ultimately allowing the Shinners to rout them.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on May 02, 2018, 03:12:04 PM
What did Seamus do?
Whinger, still is and fought against Hume at every step. The current state of the SDLP is a result of the personal fiefdoms Mallon, Rodgers and other key figures constructed, ultimately allowing the Shinners to rout them.

I had occasion to engage with Seamus Mallon on various issues in the late 90s and early 2000s.  Quite an abrasive character and very difficult to deal with.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein. He was proven right as they and their 'friends' in DUP totally undermined everything the first Stormount government tried to do. Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves. 20 years on from GFA and what has been achieved? Yes we have no real violence, army off the streets, but take a look at the state of Health, Education, Economy etc.
Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Hereiam on May 02, 2018, 04:33:20 PM
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 04:44:44 PM
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????

20 years of self governance has proved that the politicians in the North couldn't run a bath😂
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: ziggysego on May 02, 2018, 06:50:19 PM
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????

20 years of self governance has proved that the politicians in the North couldn't run a bath😂

Like the south and the UK are any different, not to mention the US and plenty of other countries.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 02, 2018, 07:44:58 PM
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????

20 years of self governance has proved that the politicians in the North couldn't run a bath😂


Like the south and the UK are any different, not to mention the US and plenty of other countries.

Agree 100%, most are self serving assholes.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on May 02, 2018, 07:57:19 PM
Insane bolt are you serious...take a look at the news, education health and the economy is being run into the ground on a UK Wide basis due to tory cuts. Stormont has achieved what it was suppose to which was bring a bit of normality to this place and now we move on to the next phase which is......???????

20 years of self governance has proved that the politicians in the North couldn't run a bath😂


Like the south and the UK are any different, not to mention the US and plenty of other countries.

Agree 100%, most are self serving assholes.
The South could be run without politicians for a while- as long as the global economy is stable-ish the money comes in. NI is much weaker and weakening all the time.
The 2 bits of Ireland could be compared to say a hurler and someone with dodgy hips. NI needs extensive therapy and a good doctor. And it has the DUP.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Snapchap on May 02, 2018, 11:43:21 PM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.

Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.

Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 03, 2018, 08:50:49 AM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.

Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.

Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.

So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on May 03, 2018, 09:00:26 AM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.

Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.

Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.

So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.

Seamus was right, but if he's bitter then that's a sad reflection on him as for all the issues with power sharing, Stormont, RHI and Brexit its certainly a better place to bring up kids than the place I grew up in.

The selfless vision and courage of John Hume allowed that to happen.

The questions the SDLP should be asking of themselves is why now with relative peace are Sinn Féin still walloping them in the poles on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.

Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.

Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.

So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.

Seamus was right, but if he's bitter then that's a sad reflection on him as for all the issues with power sharing, Stormont, RHI and Brexit its certainly a better place to bring up kids than the place I grew up in.

The selfless vision and courage of John Hume allowed that to happen.

The questions the SDLP should be asking of themselves is why now with relative peace are Sinn Féin still walloping them in the poles on a regular basis.

This is the difficulty for the SDLP, few can argue that they have made a massive contribution over several years, and most of the foreward thinking changes have the fingerprints of SDLP architects all over them : fair employment law and GFA being just two of these. In many ways they have been the true leaders of conflict resolution here, and under John Hume made the ultimate political sacrifice of risking electoral loss and their very existence , in the interests of peace. Seamus Mallon on the other hand has been exposed as party political minnow defined by his palpable antagonism to SF.  John Hume was a true giant, with his humanist and altruistic values overriding party political or even patriotic concerns. His was the correct decision , but has left a party struggling for its identity, as to put it very simply , it represented non-violent republicanism during the conflict , vigorously but constitutionally fighting for rights. Now that the conflict is over,  it appears to be fighting a battle it can’t win against Sinn Féin. Most “nationalist” voters see little difference between the policies of SF and SDLP , but will usually favour SF as their history of standing up to Britain for over 100 years is more attractive to most “nationalist” voters. This is something the SDLP needs to reflect on. They have always espoused the equality and respect agenda now claimed by Sinn Féin. They do their founders and activists no favours by actually diluting the strength of this agenda, by being distracted in waging a war against SF which they can never win. Regrettably some in their ranks continue to treat SF as the “great unwashed”, citing their violent past. Though many would argue that this antagonism has more to do with classist snobbery.
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past. Most of the leaders in the republic over the past 100 years came directly or indirectly from a violent background. Perhaps it was easier , because both FF and FG had blood on their hands from previous conflict and therefore neither could really past judgement on each  other. Also , They were often too busy dealing with “real” issues like the economy etc.
I think the SDLP need to get to the stage where , instead of basking in their past political contribution and their clean hands, they should get their architects to work on building a new Ireland and focus on the equality and respect agenda which unites 85% of this island, rather than petty squabbling and antagonism towards a much stronger SF who will be willing partners in such an equality strategy.

SDLP should remember that the real enemy here, and the reason for ongoing conflict and lack of progress are the DUP. They need to be brave enough to sideline these dinosaurs, for once and for all , and see where it takes us. They can only do it along with their equality partners eg SF , Alliance etc, and it doesn’t serve the SDLP well to distract focus from the DUP by concentrating on SF.
Personally I’m fed up of living in a political backwater, led by bedgrudging or even bullying unionism. We are on the threshold of bringing this dominance to an end, and replacing it with equality and respect for all. The  SDLP have the ability and kudos within their ranks to be potential leaders in that process, but they can’t do it by trying to paint DUP and SF as the joint enemy !
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2018, 11:26:45 AM
Obvious starting place is the next Westminster Election by not splitting the Nationalist vote in the likes of North and South Belfast.
Also tacitly supporting Alliance in Constituencies where there's a small Nationalist population.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on May 03, 2018, 12:05:06 PM
Obvious starting place is the next Westminster Election by not splitting the Nationalist vote in the likes of North and South Belfast.
Also tacitly supporting Alliance in Constituencies where there's a small Nationalist population.

The SDLP are more concerned about how they are seen in the media as they regularly trot out the line of not wanting these marginals to become a sectarian head count.

Doesn't seem to bother the DUP and UUP when the need arises.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2018, 12:58:53 PM
They should concentrate on the Electorate.
How many votes have the media?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 03, 2018, 01:15:18 PM
Some serious love for Seamus here😜 I think that he didn't agree with John Hume's trust in Sinn Fein.
His motivation for undermining Hume on this was not out of any mistrust of SF, but purely out of concern for the SDLP. He feared, like McGrady, that bringing SF in from the cold would harm them electorally. Of course, he was right in his suspicions. Which is why he is still such a nasty, bitter man.

Then we had the 'chuckle brothers' who were happy to carve the cake up among themselves.

Two polar opposites in charge, and the SDLP and UUP all but gone.
The two quotes above typify what I often see as a contradiction in people's attitudes to SF & DUP powersharing. When SF and the DUP provided a FM & DFM that (to people's surprise) got on well, they were mocked as 'chuckle brothers' who were 'carving the cake among themselves'. When they have a FM & DMF that don't get along, they are mocked as being polar opposite who can't even get along.

So Seamus was right that bringing SF in would damage SDLP in elections......has he not the right to feel bitter?
Yes I was surprised that Paisley and Martin got on, and the truth is it's only now people realise how great a negotiator MMcG was.
There's no doubt that life is better without the violence, but I believe it will be at least another two generations before politics will not be about green or orange.

Seamus was right, but if he's bitter then that's a sad reflection on him as for all the issues with power sharing, Stormont, RHI and Brexit its certainly a better place to bring up kids than the place I grew up in.

The selfless vision and courage of John Hume allowed that to happen.

The questions the SDLP should be asking of themselves is why now with relative peace are Sinn Féin still walloping them in the poles on a regular basis.

This is the difficulty for the SDLP, few can argue that they have made a massive contribution over several years, and most of the foreward thinking changes have the fingerprints of SDLP architects all over them : fair employment law and GFA being just two of these. In many ways they have been the true leaders of conflict resolution here, and under John Hume made the ultimate political sacrifice of risking electoral loss and their very existence , in the interests of peace. Seamus Mallon on the other hand has been exposed as party political minnow defined by his palpable antagonism to SF.  John Hume was a true giant, with his humanist and altruistic values overriding party political or even patriotic concerns. His was the correct decision , but has left a party struggling for its identity, as to put it very simply , it represented non-violent republicanism during the conflict , vigorously but constitutionally fighting for rights. Now that the conflict is over,  it appears to be fighting a battle it can’t win against Sinn Féin. Most “nationalist” voters see little difference between the policies of SF and SDLP , but will usually favour SF as their history of standing up to Britain for over 100 years is more attractive to most “nationalist” voters. This is something the SDLP needs to reflect on. They have always espoused the equality and respect agenda now claimed by Sinn Féin. They do their founders and activists no favours by actually diluting the strength of this agenda, by being distracted in waging a war against SF which they can never win. Regrettably some in their ranks continue to treat SF as the “great unwashed”, citing their violent past. Though many would argue that this antagonism has more to do with classist snobbery.
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past. Most of the leaders in the republic over the past 100 years came directly or indirectly from a violent background. Perhaps it was easier , because both FF and FG had blood on their hands from previous conflict and therefore neither could really past judgement on each  other. Also , They were often too busy dealing with “real” issues like the economy etc.
I think the SDLP need to get to the stage where , instead of basking in their past political contribution and their clean hands, they should get their architects to work on building a new Ireland and focus on the equality and respect agenda which unites 85% of this island, rather than petty squabbling and antagonism towards a much stronger SF who will be willing partners in such an equality strategy.

SDLP should remember that the real enemy here, and the reason for ongoing conflict and lack of progress are the DUP. They need to be brave enough to sideline these dinosaurs, for once and for all , and see where it takes us. They can only do it along with their equality partners eg SF , Alliance etc, and it doesn’t serve the SDLP well to distract focus from the DUP by concentrating on SF.
Personally I’m fed up of living in a political backwater, led by bedgrudging or even bullying unionism. We are on the threshold of bringing this dominance to an end, and replacing it with equality and respect for all. The  SDLP have the ability and kudos within their ranks to be potential leaders in that process, but they can’t do it by trying to paint DUP and SF as the joint enemy !

Can't disagree with any of that.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on May 03, 2018, 01:27:28 PM
People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.

One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Brick Tamlin on May 03, 2018, 01:45:16 PM
explain how they rig elections. im intrigued
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on May 03, 2018, 01:48:50 PM
explain how they rig elections. im intrigued

Widespread voter fraud using proxy votes.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on May 03, 2018, 01:55:38 PM
Go on
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on May 03, 2018, 02:10:36 PM
People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.

One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.

I agree with that. They know the DUP are against it, and because it "seems" like every Tom Dick and Harry are for it, they push the same sex marriage thing to make the DUP look bad.

One side can't be seen to be agreeing with the other. They are deceiving voters, and are only in it for their own gain. Both sides. Hence, why I tear up my voting card when it arrives.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 02:38:43 PM
People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.

One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.

I agree with that. They know the DUP are against it, and because it "seems" like every Tom Dick and Harry are for it, they push the same sex marriage thing to make the DUP look bad.

One side can't be seen to be agreeing with the other. They are deceiving voters, and are only in it for their own gain. Both sides. Hence, why I tear up my voting card when it arrives.

If that makes you feel better then well and good, but it is a symbolic gesture as you don't actually need a polling card to cast your vote. ;)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on May 03, 2018, 02:43:19 PM
People need to see SF for what they really are. All the issues that SF say they are in favour of are merely hijacked for political gain. They have no interest in marriage equality for example, demonstrated by how quickly they were willing to drop it to get back into Gov in Stormont.
The tactics they employ in 'rigging' elections in the North wouldn't be out of place in Russia or Zimbabwe.

One day people will wake up, but by then it might be too late.

I agree with that. They know the DUP are against it, and because it "seems" like every Tom Dick and Harry are for it, they push the same sex marriage thing to make the DUP look bad.

One side can't be seen to be agreeing with the other. They are deceiving voters, and are only in it for their own gain. Both sides. Hence, why I tear up my voting card when it arrives.

If that makes you feel better then well and good, but it is a symbolic gesture as you don't actually need a polling card to cast your vote. ;)

Fair enough, didn't know that. And it does make me feel better ;)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 02:55:26 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on May 03, 2018, 03:03:59 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.

There's a lot of people who vote SF in the North who don't care one iota about a UI. They merely vote SF to keep the other lot in check. In this instance they voting against the DUP and not for SF.
People equate what is happening in the North as normal politics. This is as far removed from everyday politics as you can get. Reading too much into vote shares is pointless.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on May 03, 2018, 03:12:43 PM
Its fairly clear you haven't the first notion what you are talking about, but I suppose you're in the right place, so plough ahead.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on May 03, 2018, 03:15:32 PM
Because my opinion differs from yours?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: GJL on May 03, 2018, 03:18:08 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.

There's a lot of people who vote SF in the North who don't care one iota about a UI. They merely vote SF to keep the other lot in check. In this instance they voting against the DUP and not for SF.
People equate what is happening in the North as normal politics. This is as far removed from everyday politics as you can get. Reading too much into vote shares is pointless.

Complete and utter nonsense.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on May 03, 2018, 03:19:02 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.

There's a lot of people who vote SF in the North who don't care one iota about a UI. They merely vote SF to keep the other lot in check. In this instance they voting against the DUP and not for SF.
People equate what is happening in the North as normal politics. This is as far removed from everyday politics as you can get. Reading too much into vote shares is pointless.

Has there ever been a more clueless comment.

Define normal politics. Like the everyday politics of the rust belt, Trump, Brexit, North Korea, Syria, Israel, Cambridge Analytica, the huge gains made by the Scottish Conservatives?

SF will bring home the bacon, a UI is coming and there will be serious bed wetting by west brits, quislings and some Unionists when it does.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on May 03, 2018, 03:21:30 PM
Shinnerbots. Assemble!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: tiempo on May 03, 2018, 03:24:43 PM
Bed wetters of the world unite!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on May 03, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.

Good analysis.  The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum.  They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists.  They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly.  A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF.  Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on May 03, 2018, 04:33:55 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.

Good analysis.  The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum.  They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists.  They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly.  A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF.  Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.
You could also add that in analysing nationalist voting intentions to a UI it is not a yes no question. The type of UI needs to be established and any process towards it will take time and financial support from the EU/Britain/ROI. Things like the health service, public jobs etc will take some time to change and people will not want to be worse of, but it is achieveable.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on May 03, 2018, 04:37:15 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.

Good analysis.  The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum.  They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists.  They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly.  A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF.  Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.

I'd say that was always the case but with Sinn Féin being toxic to most the SDLP was the only other option. Once Sinn Féin came in from the cold the SDLP didn't realign their policies accordingly and that maybe was because they misjudged their electorate and also their unionists bed fellows in that a "shared" entity that was NI was workable.

How wrong were they!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 06:16:53 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.

Good analysis.  The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum.  They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists.  They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly.  A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF.  Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.

I'd say that was always the case but with Sinn Féin being toxic to most the SDLP was the only other option. Once Sinn Féin came in from the cold the SDLP didn't realign their policies accordingly and that maybe was because they misjudged their electorate and also their unionists bed fellows in that a "shared" entity that was NI was workable.

How wrong were they!

Not sure that many in Sdlp didn’t want a UI. I have known several SDLP voters and politicians , who were as passionate about a UI as SF, just that the violence didn’t sit well with them , sometimes  due to guidance from the Catholic Church .
Most were prepared to work in making this state as fair and successful as possible, in the knowledge that a UI was inevitable in the long term. A valid viewpoint as they wanted to ensure health education jobs and equality were not neglected as we wait on a UI
This state in its present form seems to be ungovernable, a spirit of generosity from unionism could still secure a strong future for British identity on this Island, but the DUP need to be put to the pin of their collars, as there’s only one way to stand up to a bully. Their self obsessed shorttermism needs to be countered at every turn, and only an United equality agenda can do that . SDLP have an opportunity to lead that in terms of ethos if not numbers, but they are doing a disservice to that cause by tarring SF with the same brush as DUP. SF for their part need to put more meat on the bones of how they see a new ireland. Focussing on partnership with equality colleagues, and avoiding winding up middle of the road unionism is the key, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2018, 07:14:30 PM
Good analysis.  The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum.  They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists.  They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly.  A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF.  Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.

There's a lot of truth in that. I have nothing but respect for John Hume but I think he spent so much time in Strasbourg that he ended up losing touch with what was going on on the ground. That "post-nationalist" stuff was baffling to me at the time and it's baffling to me now. The nationalist aspiration and "this is our land" mentality is as strong as ever, and rightly so in my opinion.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 03, 2018, 11:38:18 PM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.

There's a lot of people who vote SF in the North who don't care one iota about a UI. They merely vote SF to keep the other lot in check. In this instance they voting against the DUP and not for SF.
People equate what is happening in the North as normal politics. This is as far removed from everyday politics as you can get. Reading too much into vote shares is pointless.

Has there ever been a more clueless comment.

Define normal politics. Like the everyday politics of the rust belt, Trump, Brexit, North Korea, Syria, Israel, Cambridge Analytica, the huge gains made by the Scottish Conservatives?

SF will bring home the bacon, a UI is coming and there will be serious bed wetting by west brits, quislings and some Unionists when it does.

When?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 06:40:22 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.

I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.

Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: omaghjoe on May 04, 2018, 06:57:27 AM
Good analysis.  The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum.  They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists.  They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly.  A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF.  Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.

There's a lot of truth in that. I have nothing but respect for John Hume but I think he spent so much time in Strasbourg that he ended up losing touch with what was going on on the ground. That "post-nationalist" stuff was baffling to me at the time and it's baffling to me now. The nationalist aspiration and "this is our land" mentality is as strong as ever, and rightly so in my opinion.

What I took/take from it was that it was more of a political ideology where the concept of sovereign nationalism on a European or global would begin to wane as apolitical system
.
Only a century or three premature perhaps and way over the heads of the ordinary man in the street myself included who as a young buck starting to vote around that time was confused as to why they called themselves nationalist but never talked about a UI,wasnt even in their manifesto! Which in my naivety was my main priority in voting at the time.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 04, 2018, 09:15:03 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.

I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.

Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.

In 1998 at the assembly elections SF were the 4th.....yes 4th largest party, behind SDLP, UUP, DUP. John  Hume topped the polls followed by Trimble, Paisley and then Adams. It would seem that anyone who opposes SF (especially those who are Nationalists) are according to you 'vindictive and bitter'.
Many people from all sides lost loved ones, so they have every right to feel bitter.
Now answer this.....is Gerry Adams a hypocrite? After all he wasn't in the IRA, he was a founder member of the Civil Rights Movement, and he protected his paedopile brother. If that's not hypocrisy then I give up.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on May 04, 2018, 09:19:42 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.

I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.

Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.

In 1998 at the assembly elections SF were the 4th.....yes 4th largest party, behind SDLP, UUP, DUP. John  Hume topped the polls followed by Trimble, Paisley and then Adams. It would seem that anyone who opposes SF (especially those who are Nationalists) are according to you 'vindictive and bitter'.
Many people from all sides lost loved ones, so they have every right to feel bitter.
Now answer this.....is Gerry Adams a hypocrite? After all he wasn't in the IRA, he was a founder member of the Civil Rights Movement, and he protected his paedopile brother. If that's not hypocrisy then I give up.
I fear that it is not only the Shinners who are bitter and twisted ;).
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 09:27:29 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.

I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.

Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.

In 1998 at the assembly elections SF were the 4th.....yes 4th largest party, behind SDLP, UUP, DUP. John  Hume topped the polls followed by Trimble, Paisley and then Adams. It would seem that anyone who opposes SF (especially those who are Nationalists) are according to you 'vindictive and bitter'.
Many people from all sides lost loved ones, so they have every right to feel bitter.
Now answer this.....is Gerry Adams a hypocrite? After all he wasn't in the IRA, he was a founder member of the Civil Rights Movement, and he protected his paedopile brother. If that's not hypocrisy then I give up.

In my post anumber of pages back about the Gerry Adams documentary, I specifically noted that of all the opponents of Adams to contribute to the documentary, Mallon was the ONLY one to come across as bitter and twisted. If you are going to make a personal attack on me, at least ground it in fact.

As for the rest of your post, I'm at an absolute loss as to what point you're trying to make.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on May 04, 2018, 09:41:30 AM
The problem for the SDLP is basically that the majority of the nationalist community are republican at heart, those that vote anyway. The SDLP missed a trick as they turned light green and hung their hat on making NI work. At its inner most core the nationalist community is not interested in Westminster or in Stormont and that is why the Shinners get the vote. Add into that a growing younger generation of nationalist that refuse to tone down its identity or doff the cap to superior unionist culture. Had the SDLP really felt the heart beat of their community they would have understood this. The SDLP are still wed to the old unionist adage of SF/IRA and nationalists by and large don't accept this as a black and white situation.

Good analysis.  The SDLP fatally misread the result of the GFA Referendum.  They thought that a resounding "Yes" from nationalists (North & South) meant that support for a UI was on the wane amongst nationalists.  They started to talk about "post-nationalism" and occupying the "middle ground" in partnership with the UUP and started to become "green-lite" very quickly.  A lot of their supporters scratched their heads and concluded that the SDLP had no interest in working towards a UI and thus voted SF.  Also they didn't cotton on that Unionist support for the agreement was lukewarm at best and that Trimble & Co only accepted it as the least worst option and had little interest in making it work.

I'd say that was always the case but with Sinn Féin being toxic to most the SDLP was the only other option. Once Sinn Féin came in from the cold the SDLP didn't realign their policies accordingly and that maybe was because they misjudged their electorate and also their unionists bed fellows in that a "shared" entity that was NI was workable.

How wrong were they!

Not sure that many in Sdlp didn’t want a UI. I have known several SDLP voters and politicians , who were as passionate about a UI as SF, just that the violence didn’t sit well with them , sometimes  due to guidance from the Catholic Church .
Most were prepared to work in making this state as fair and successful as possible, in the knowledge that a UI was inevitable in the long term. A valid viewpoint as they wanted to ensure health education jobs and equality were not neglected as we wait on a UI
This state in its present form seems to be ungovernable, a spirit of generosity from unionism could still secure a strong future for British identity on this Island, but the DUP need to be put to the pin of their collars, as there’s only one way to stand up to a bully. Their self obsessed shorttermism needs to be countered at every turn, and only an United equality agenda can do that . SDLP have an opportunity to lead that in terms of ethos if not numbers, but they are doing a disservice to that cause by tarring SF with the same brush as DUP. SF for their part need to put more meat on the bones of how they see a new ireland. Focussing on partnership with equality colleagues, and avoiding winding up middle of the road unionism is the key, in my opinion.

If they did then the party leaders hid those aims well for many's a year.

The SDLP were correct that getting equality in Education, Jobs, health are indeed day to day more important, but at the same time the nationalist electorate were beginning to make it clear that a UI needed to be on the table, the SDLP seemed to be more interested in keeping the middle ground and aspirations for a UI have only come to the fore in the last 10 years or so when the damage is done.
They were also banking on Unionism meeting them in that middle ground and that didn't happen.

They needed new blood with something to offer and that's a bit lacking at the minute.

In saying that the new offerings from Sinn Féin don't really instill much confidence either.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on May 04, 2018, 09:50:49 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.

I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.

Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.

The Southern establishment really do fear a resurgent Sinn Féin having a big say in the Dáil and will do almost anything to get in the way of that.

The hypocrisy from FF and FG is laughable but doesn't get called out in the media who're their lackies anyway.
By and large the Southern media fed the 26 counties population a very one sided view of the troubles.

Tubridy getting handed his arse back to him by Gerry Adams was a case in point;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIlTtudovPM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIlTtudovPM)

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on May 04, 2018, 10:00:42 AM
I suspect those days are over and climb downs are imminent (if disguised) - SF will be needed in the south in the near future. New leadership now means they can perhaps do it saving as much face as possible from their previous ludicrous positions.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 04, 2018, 10:21:13 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.

I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.

Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.

In 1998 at the assembly elections SF were the 4th.....yes 4th largest party, behind SDLP, UUP, DUP. John  Hume topped the polls followed by Trimble, Paisley and then Adams. It would seem that anyone who opposes SF (especially those who are Nationalists) are according to you 'vindictive and bitter'.
Many people from all sides lost loved ones, so they have every right to feel bitter.
Now answer this.....is Gerry Adams a hypocrite? After all he wasn't in the IRA, he was a founder member of the Civil Rights Movement, and he protected his paedopile brother. If that's not hypocrisy then I give up.

In my post anumber of pages back about the Gerry Adams documentary, I specifically noted that of all the opponents of Adams to contribute to the documentary, Mallon was the ONLY one to come across as bitter and twisted. If you are going to make a personal attack on me, at least ground it in fact.

As for the rest of your post, I'm at an absolute loss as to what point you're trying to make.

Personal attack? Where? Nice deflection, now is Gerry a hypocrite or not? Simple yes or no.


Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on May 04, 2018, 11:12:24 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-leftists-are-well-and-truly-triggered-councillor-responds-to-criticism-of-racist-famine-tweet-36872946.html
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: AQMP on May 04, 2018, 11:17:28 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-leftists-are-well-and-truly-triggered-councillor-responds-to-criticism-of-racist-famine-tweet-36872946.html

Bunting is a head case.  She was thrown out of the TUV, even Jim Allister couldn't have her!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: GJL on May 04, 2018, 12:17:33 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-leftists-are-well-and-truly-triggered-councillor-responds-to-criticism-of-racist-famine-tweet-36872946.html

Bunting is a head case.  She was thrown out of the TUV, even Jim Allister couldn't have her!

yet she gets enough votes to sit on a council!  :-\ :o
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 04, 2018, 02:04:46 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-leftists-are-well-and-truly-triggered-councillor-responds-to-criticism-of-racist-famine-tweet-36872946.html

Her Queen's English is good 😜
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on May 04, 2018, 03:33:24 PM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.

I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.

Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.

You’re emphasising the point I’m trying to make. The attitude from the southern establishment (Ff/Fg) and media towards SF is hypocritical. Especially  since their attitude to each other since the foundation of the state has been as political rivals, and despite their origins from the civil war, they proved they could put those differences behind them . In the more recent conflict , SDLP and more so the southern establishment and media , continue to treat SF as pariahs , presumably because they feel it is party politically advantageous for them to denigrate SF.
As a result of this pArty political approach , they dilute the equality agenda which 85% of this Island would buy in to , and let the DUP dinosaurs off the hook time and again, they should hang their heads in shame!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 06, 2018, 09:03:09 AM
Teflon Arlene on this morning Andrew Marr show....should be good😩
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 06, 2018, 09:26:29 AM
Minus the crown brooch too..
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 04:46:11 PM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.

I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.

Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.

You’re emphasising the point I’m trying to make. The attitude from the southern establishment (Ff/Fg) and media towards SF is hypocritical. Especially  since their attitude to each other since the foundation of the state has been as political rivals, and despite their origins from the civil war, they proved they could put those differences behind them . In the more recent conflict , SDLP and more so the southern establishment and media , continue to treat SF as pariahs , presumably because they feel it is party politically advantageous for them to denigrate SF.
As a result of this pArty political approach , they dilute the equality agenda which 85% of this Island would buy in to , and let the DUP dinosaurs off the hook time and again, they should hang their heads in shame!

All political parties North and South are the same. They will take whatever action is necessary to suit their agenda and don't try and tell us Sinn Fein is better or worse than the rest. At local level in the Republic all parties cooperate and support each other in the council chamber andSinn Fein are as good at this as anyone else.
Sinn Fein refused to cooperate in the formation of a Government at the last election saying that they would not enter Government as a junior party. Now they see that FF and FG could freeze them out  by having the Confidence and Supply arrangement with whichever of the two that has the highest number of seats calling the shots (no pun intended).
In any case SFs high tax, magic beans economic policy and make believe socialism will be shown up again at the next election by the big parties and the hard left P.B.P.

Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Orior on May 06, 2018, 07:31:24 PM
Avondhu star, who is best to bring me unification of our island?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on May 06, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
The Irish people?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 08:25:07 PM
Avondhu star, who is best to bring me unification of our island?

Unify the people first
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:03:23 PM
The Irish people?

Nope, the British people.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 09:40:07 PM
The Irish people?

Nope, the British people.

They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:47:58 PM
The Irish people?

Nope, the British people.

They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act

Exactly.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 10:24:33 PM
The Irish people?

Nope, the British people.

They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act

Exactly.

It's up to the Irish nationalist sector to make the economic political cultural case for unity.
Human nature being what it is economics will be the deciding factor ( just think of the Scottish result)
Matt Carty of S.F. is one of the few that has been making some sounds on unification. There is no doubt but that Brexit could have a big part to play yet.
However there is no sign that the extremes on each side are prepared to compromise on flags, parades. Irish language etc
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2018, 10:30:27 AM
This could also be in the Darwin award or WTF threads

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/arlene-fosters-red-line-on-europe-biggest-issue-is-northern-ireland-staying-in-the-uk-not-whether-we-should-leave-customs-union-36879329.html
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on May 07, 2018, 10:40:00 AM
The Irish people?

Nope, the British people.

They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act

Exactly.

It's up to the Irish nationalist sector to make the economic political cultural case for unity.
Human nature being what it is economics will be the deciding factor ( just think of the Scottish result)
Matt Carty of S.F. is one of the few that has been making some sounds on unification. There is no doubt but that Brexit could have a big part to play yet.
However there is no sign that the extremes on each side are prepared to compromise on flags, parades. Irish language etc

Did you expect them to compromise?!

The British people couldn't give a flying fcuk about the North. That was more evident with the DUP deal with the Nazi party. A push in britain for a referendum on the North would do more for a UI than anything. A border poll here would mean very little compared to a border poll in Britain. Unionists here need to hear that this union they hang onto with every ounce of strength doesn't want them, couldn't give a shite about theym, and doesn't consider them british. That's the first step towards any sort of a UI.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 07, 2018, 12:18:18 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-44009431/lord-kilclooney-deletes-typical-indian-tweet-but-does-not-apologise

The people in England don't give a flying fcuk about N.I. .....it may as well be on mars......can you blame them with arrogance like above.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on May 07, 2018, 03:21:06 PM
She's not the leader of the 6 Cos, just nominal leader of the DUP,  a 17th Century political party.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on May 07, 2018, 04:41:28 PM
The Irish people?

Nope, the British people.

They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act

Exactly.

It's up to the Irish nationalist sector to make the economic political cultural case for unity.
Human nature being what it is economics will be the deciding factor ( just think of the Scottish result)
Matt Carty of S.F. is one of the few that has been making some sounds on unification. There is no doubt but that Brexit could have a big part to play yet.
However there is no sign that the extremes on each side are prepared to compromise on flags, parades. Irish language etc

Did you expect them to compromise?!

The British people couldn't give a flying fcuk about the North. That was more evident with the DUP deal with the Nazi party. A push in britain for a referendum on the North would do more for a UI than anything. A border poll here would mean very little compared to a border poll in Britain. Unionists here need to hear that this union they hang onto with every ounce of strength doesn't want them, couldn't give a shite about theym, and doesn't consider them british. That's the first step towards any sort of a UI.

Well seeing the I.R.A. were hopping into bed with the real Nazi party while Belfast was being bombed by the Luftwaffe maybe you shouldn't criticise the democratically elected D.U.P. for supporting the democratically elected Conservatives
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 04:48:33 PM
Were the Nazi's not democratically elected in Germany???
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: blewuporstuffed on May 07, 2018, 05:04:07 PM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!

I thought the interview with Andrew Mar on Sunday was pathetic, he let her have a completely free run and let he spot some blatant lies and half truths.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on May 07, 2018, 05:08:57 PM
Were the Nazi's not democratically elected in Germany???
Correct. But then they went about making sure they wouldnt have to worry about democracy after that.  The D.U.P. and the Tories will stand down if they dont have a majority the next time
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on May 07, 2018, 05:15:04 PM
The Irish people?

Nope, the British people.

They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act

Exactly.

It's up to the Irish nationalist sector to make the economic political cultural case for unity.
Human nature being what it is economics will be the deciding factor ( just think of the Scottish result)
Matt Carty of S.F. is one of the few that has been making some sounds on unification. There is no doubt but that Brexit could have a big part to play yet.
However there is no sign that the extremes on each side are prepared to compromise on flags, parades. Irish language etc

Did you expect them to compromise?!

The British people couldn't give a flying fcuk about the North. That was more evident with the DUP deal with the Nazi party. A push in britain for a referendum on the North would do more for a UI than anything. A border poll here would mean very little compared to a border poll in Britain. Unionists here need to hear that this union they hang onto with every ounce of strength doesn't want them, couldn't give a shite about theym, and doesn't consider them british. That's the first step towards any sort of a UI.

Well seeing the I.R.A. were hopping into bed with the real Nazi party while Belfast was being bombed by the Luftwaffe maybe you shouldn't criticise the democratically elected D.U.P. for supporting the democratically elected Conservatives

I didn't criticise the DUP. But I will now.

The DUP would support any government action. Should the British government decide to nuke any country, impose any amount of cuts/tax etc, they'd back them to the hilt. Anything else, and it just wouldn't be the British thing to do, and they are so british, don't you know.

At the same time, the Tories were screwed and their only choice was to hop into bed with the DUP. The DUP ego swelled up, they felt even more important and even more british (if that's even possible). In reality, they were used by the Tories.

But that's politics, it's a disgusting cesspit of horseshite.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:28:35 PM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus?  I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:53:38 PM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus?  I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.

They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
Are you for real?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on May 07, 2018, 06:32:23 PM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus?  I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.

They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.

Would that be the Mary Lou approach or just the antics from a half pissed barstool so called republican
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: 6th sam on May 07, 2018, 06:49:05 PM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus?  I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.

They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
You should reflect on that statement. Regardless of Arlene’s anti-Irish viewpoint, you can’t defend the indefensible , putting children in jeopardy as happened in that attack is absolutely appalling regardless of any other factors 
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 07:33:37 PM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus?  I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.

They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
You should reflect on that statement. Regardless of Arlene’s anti-Irish viewpoint, you can’t defend the indefensible , putting children in jeopardy as happened in that attack is absolutely appalling regardless of any other factors

Removed it. My point was lost in the post.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 07:53:17 PM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus?  I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.

They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
You should reflect on that statement. Regardless of Arlene’s anti-Irish viewpoint, you can’t defend the indefensible , putting children in jeopardy as happened in that attack is absolutely appalling regardless of any other factors

Removed it. My point was lost in the post.
Your point was clear as day.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2018, 08:04:14 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on May 07, 2018, 08:40:57 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
That's what they have in common with S.F.
The magic beans economic policies
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 07, 2018, 09:02:10 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
That's what they have in common with S.F.
The magic beans economic policies

We the electorate are to blame....no one else. A simple cry of no surrender or tiocfaidh ar la usually gets them heading to the ballot boxes.
Acceptance of each other's traditions has to happen if there is going to be any progress......I keep going back to 'you can't eat a flag'.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: BennyCake on May 07, 2018, 09:02:38 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?

Maybe they're going to try the "eat the fleg" approach.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: HiMucker on May 07, 2018, 09:15:32 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?

Maybe they're going to try the "eat the fleg" approach.
Well they have certainly been trying to ram it down peoples throats!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Insane Bolt on May 07, 2018, 10:05:28 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?

Maybe they're going to try the "eat the fleg" approach.
Well they have certainly been trying to ram it down peoples throats!

Contentious marches are few and far between now, compared to days gone by. The vast majority of people are too busy getting on with life, yet the minority hog the headlines......I think if they weren't given the oxygen of media attention they would die out. Here's hoping👍
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 07, 2018, 10:08:10 PM
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
This is all part of the general Unionist insanity. They can't see beyond the end of their noses. If Corbyn is next PM they're screwed, if they had sense they'd be trying to build a relationship with him, but no they can't see that far ahead. Eventually Catholics will be in the majority n NI and a border poll will be inevitable. They should be working to make NI a comfortable place for the many 'middle of the road' Catholics who may not be dyed in the wool nationalists but no, they refuse an Irish language act,support GSTQ at football matches etc and therefore antagonise these people making a United Ireland more inevitable.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on May 08, 2018, 12:09:25 AM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus?  I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.

I appreciate it may not be easy for some people to move on but alot who had it alot worse than arlene have decided its the best for everyone if they can make pesve eith what wemt on.

I just think that its fooked up that she as someone in a position of leadership is so bitter that she pollutes the population and uses every opportunity to tell anyone who'll listen that she suffered at the hands of the provos.

But then again maybe im on my own on that one!
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: imtommygunn on May 08, 2018, 07:31:13 AM
I wondered that myself but i think she is just one of those kind of people who would be bitter if she had nothing to be bitter about.

They never mention douglas herd, of the tories, met the ira before corbyn.

Michaelg what is your view of foster?
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on May 08, 2018, 08:41:30 AM
Quote
"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.

There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
Is she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus?  I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.
There are many of us with very up close and personal experience of the troubles and it is not easy to let that go. However Foster takes every opportunity to remind us.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2018, 09:30:53 AM
A lot of criticism for the DUP. However some posters need to remember that they have the largest vote share of any party in NI. So while you may not agree with what they have to say around 30% of the electorate do.

As someone said earlier, unite the people, then we can unite the country. 50%+1 is unrealistic in the near to medium term. We'd want to be convincing people of the benefits of UI.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on May 08, 2018, 09:38:09 AM
A lot of criticism for the DUP. However some posters need to remember that they have the largest vote share of any party in NI. So while you may not agree with what they have to say around 30% of the electorate do.

As someone said earlier, unite the people, then we can unite the country. 50%+1 is unrealistic in the near to medium term. We'd want to be convincing people of the benefits of UI.
In my view 50+1 at any time is not sustainable. I would be a nationalist and would prefer a UI. However as things stand I would not vote yes in a referendum unless I was convinced that there was no threat of violence, that at my age healthcare is guaranteed, that my income will be comeasurate with what I earn now in relation to any future cost of living, ie I'd be no worse off. that is SF's challenge in the first instance before they convince soft unionists.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 10:07:44 AM
You left out the bit where the Sun is guaranteed to shine all day and rain will only fall at night.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 10:17:54 AM
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.

Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on May 08, 2018, 10:49:07 AM
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.

Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
But it is not only unionists you have to convince.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 10:52:17 AM
That which will convince unionists, in practical terms, will certainly convince 'nationalists'
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Taylor on May 08, 2018, 11:16:08 AM
A lot of criticism for the DUP. However some posters need to remember that they have the largest vote share of any party in NI. So while you may not agree with what they have to say around 30% of the electorate do.

As someone said earlier, unite the people, then we can unite the country. 50%+1 is unrealistic in the near to medium term. We'd want to be convincing people of the benefits of UI.
In my view 50+1 at any time is not sustainable. I would be a nationalist and would prefer a UI. However as things stand I would not vote yes in a referendum unless I was convinced that there was no threat of violence, that at my age healthcare is guaranteed, that my income will be comeasurate with what I earn now in relation to any future cost of living, ie I'd be no worse off. that is SF's challenge in the first instance before they convince soft unionists.

And with a UI as it currently stands there would be no chance of any of that being guaranteed.........and not for the forseeable future. In fact I dont even think in our lifetime unfortunately
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 11:35:27 AM
There isn't a " UI as it currentry stands".
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Avondhu star on May 08, 2018, 01:17:15 PM
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.

Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
But it is not only unionists you have to convince.

That's incorrect. There are plenty on the nationalist side who will forget their nationalism if they are hit in the pocket
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Applesisapples on May 08, 2018, 02:04:59 PM
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.

Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
But it is not only unionists you have to convince.

That's incorrect. There are plenty on the nationalist side who will forget their nationalism if they are hit in the picket
Not forget their identity but would need to be reassured that unity will not impoverish them to any extent.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: Rossfan on May 08, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
It's us in the 26 need to be guaranteed we won't be impoverished by subsidising the 6 Cos basket case.
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: johnnycool on May 08, 2018, 02:49:41 PM
It's all of the above.

Brexit brings with it many unknowns and Arlene has in her gift (or maybe wee Nige is the brains of the outfit) to make the wee 6 a gateway between both markets post March 2019.
If she does that and NI becomes economically interesting for global firms to have a foot in both camps then the United Ireland debate will be off the table, the small n nationalists won't be interested.

A hard brexit possibly could spell economic disaster for NI as it's already a basket case within the UK with a good bit of investment coming from the EU. With that cut off then Westminster governments may spend their time fire fighting in the more lucrative home counties to appease their voting base marginalising NI even further.
Then small n nationalists and small u unionists may have their heads turned towards Dublin as somewhere else to put bread on their tables.


Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: WT4E on May 08, 2018, 02:53:14 PM
It's all of the above.

Brexit brings with it many unknowns and Arlene has in her gift (or maybe wee Nige is the brains of the outfit) to make the wee 6 a gateway between both markets post March 2019.
If she does that and NI becomes economically interesting for global firms to have a foot in both camps then the United Ireland debate will be off the table, the small n nationalists won't be interested.

A hard brexit possibly could spell economic disaster for NI as it's already a basket case within the UK with a good bit of investment coming from the EU. With that cut off then Westminster governments may spend their time fire fighting in the more lucrative home counties to appease their voting base marginalising NI even further.
Then small n nationalists and small u unionists may have their heads turned towards Dublin as somewhere else to put bread on their tables.

Very true - Thats why I believe that Arlene is now up there with Wolfe Tone, Pearse, McGuinness as one of the major driving forces behind getting rid of the British - Long may she reign (or not reign as is the case)
Title: Re: Arlene's bigotry shines through
Post by: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 03:02:13 PM
'How much it will cost' is a popular refrain, but its short-sighted and misses the point. Over the longer term, a single entity Ireland will be a greater economic unit than that of the current two parts, and everyone will reap the benefits of that. It seems particularly strange that those in the North, currently an economic basket case (and path to which can be directly apportioned to partition), would query whether it will be economically worth it - it would appear to be caution of a dangerous level to settle for what you have when the evidence points clearly to how much better you and your descendants could be doing.

Of course most people will just worry about the short term, and if they're told they'll be £100 worse off next year they won't go for it, but even that won't be the case. The economic benefits will become clearer as the situation develops; it will be in the interests of pretty much all those involved for it to happen, so the UK, Ireland, EU, US, will all pump money in to ensure there is the right vote - in other words a unification dividend will sort out the short term grumblers, and the greater economic power of a single Irish unit will deliver in the longer term 
Title: Re: Arlene's