Russian passenger plane crashes over Egypt

[muppet]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-and-egypt-brush-off-british-suggestion-that-bomb-caused-plane-to-crash/2015/11/05/948df81c-834a-11e5-8bd2-680fff868306_story.html

BREAKING: President Obama said in an interview with Seattle-based KIRO Radio that "I think there is a possibility that there was a bomb on board and we're taking that very seriously."

LONDON — Russia and Egypt dismissed as "speculation" British suggestions Thursday that a bomb caused a Russian jetliner to crash in the Sinai Peninsula, while Britain drafted plans to bring home thousands of tourists amid concerns over airport security in the Egyptian resort city of Sharm el-Sheikh.

Obama is still only calling it a possibility.

Cameron is looking increasingly daft at the moment. I am guessing that his security advisor is louder than his other advisors. I would hate to be going near British airports in the next few days, they are bad enough as they are.

Pprune is talking about info suggesting that the event, and the CVR/FDR stopping, all happened 'at the same time'. So whatever it was happened instantly. By contrast, Lockerbie was a bomb and there was 'a 180-millisecond hissing noise could be heard as the explosion destroyed the aircraft's communications centre', which is why I put parentheses around 'at the same time'.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103#Explosion_and_Collision_timeline)

There is no source for any of this info so it should be take with a pinch of salt.

Also there is a terrible story about a baby girl found 20/25 miles from the main crash site.

For what it is worth, the current pprune theory is a massive failure of the Horizontal Stabiliser (the small wing at the back left and right of the tail), such that it pulled away the rear of the aircraft. I can't recall ever hearing of anything like that.

[Milltown Row2]

Are you a aircraft engineer by any chance?

[muppet]

Are you a aircraft engineer by any chance?

No, but there is a former engineer that posts here.

[Milltown Row2]

Are you a aircraft engineer by any chance?

No, but there is a former engineer that posts here.

Worked in Bombardier myself and delivered level 3 in aeronautical engineering fitting, wouldn't say it was a mechanical fault but the investigation would settle any reasons as to why it crashed... To use other sources at the minute would be daft, in my little knowledge of it

[muppet]

The Brits really going for it now:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34742273

UK investigators looking at what caused a Russian airliner to crash in Egypt believe a bomb was put in the hold prior to take-off, the BBC has learned.


I feel fairly certain that if the cause was a bomb, the investigators would have evidence by now. If it was in the hold, examining the baggage from the different holds could clearly indicate which bags were close to the explosion. All bags are bar-coded, so even if bags beside the bomb were completely destroyed, if all missing bags were in the same location, that would be a serious clue. There should be also be evidence in the wreckage. Aside from the traces of explosives and blast damage (I'll have to leave that to someone else) there should be clear damage on the wreckage showing where the hole was created.

It is possible that the Brits intelligence is correct, and that the team of investigators are either unless (bloody foreigners) or that they are showing remarkable circumspection and saying nothing yet (remember the French investigators leaked everything in the Germanwings crash as soon as they found it). But remember the Brits history with bomb investigation? Birmingham 6 anyone?

If it was a bomb, airports anywhere near a 'security threat' will become a nightmare. The British airports will go from awful to insufferable.

If it wasn't a bomb, then Cameron will have made an idiot of himself on the world stage.

Hindsight will eventually make at least half of the above post look foolish, but I am praying it wasn't a bomb.

[NAG1]

I would say that there is very little chance of the British government coming out and more or less saying that it was a bomb without some decent evidence to back this up.

The fact is they know the Russians will say nothing and the Egyptians will say even less, so they probably feel within their rights to go so public so early with this.

[muppet]

I would say that there is very little chance of the British government coming out and more or less saying that it was a bomb without some decent evidence to back this up.

The fact is they know the Russians will say nothing and the Egyptians will say even less, so they probably feel within their rights to go so public so early with this.

The Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) are also investigating as is Airbus.

The Brits are not involved officially, although there may be some Brits involved with Airbus or the IAA.

[AZOffaly]

I would say that there is very little chance of the British government coming out and more or less saying that it was a bomb without some decent evidence to back this up.

The fact is they know the Russians will say nothing and the Egyptians will say even less, so they probably feel within their rights to go so public so early with this.

The Brits were happy enough to shout about WMD when it didn't exist.

[muppet]

The Brits claim they heard 'chatter' before and after the crash.

If they knew before, well you can make up your own minds on that...........

[NAG1]

I would say that there is very little chance of the British government coming out and more or less saying that it was a bomb without some decent evidence to back this up.

The fact is they know the Russians will say nothing and the Egyptians will say even less, so they probably feel within their rights to go so public so early with this.

The Brits were happy enough to shout about WMD when it didn't exist.

Where is the end game then for this AZ for them to claim it to be a bomb?

well all know the WMD end game, just hard to figure in this situation?

[AZOffaly]

Possibly trying to force some sort of push against ISIS, on a multilateral basis.

[LeoMc]

I would say that there is very little chance of the British government coming out and more or less saying that it was a bomb without some decent evidence to back this up.

The fact is they know the Russians will say nothing and the Egyptians will say even less, so they probably feel within their rights to go so public so early with this.

The Brits were happy enough to shout about WMD when it didn't exist.

Where is the end game then for this AZ for them to claim it to be a bomb?

well all know the WMD end game, just hard to figure in this situation?

If I was a conspiracy theorist there would be some obvious 'benefits' for the UK & US.
1. Get the Russians on board in the fight againt ISIS, so they will focus on them rather than the FSA. They have already said keeping Assad is not a deal breaker.
2. Get the Egyptians on board to drive ISIS out of the Sinai and secure Israel & Palestines southern borders.

[seafoid]

I would say that there is very little chance of the British government coming out and more or less saying that it was a bomb without some decent evidence to back this up.

The fact is they know the Russians will say nothing and the Egyptians will say even less, so they probably feel within their rights to go so public so early with this.

The Brits were happy enough to shout about WMD when it didn't exist.

Where is the end game then for this AZ for them to claim it to be a bomb?

well all know the WMD end game, just hard to figure in this situation?

If I was a conspiracy theorist there would be some obvious 'benefits' for the UK & US.
1. Get the Russians on board in the fight againt ISIS, so they will focus on them rather than the FSA. They have already said keeping Assad is not a deal breaker.
2. Get the Egyptians on board to drive ISIS out of the Sinai and secure Israel & Palestines southern borders.

Gaza will end up with ISIS the way Israel's treatment of the strip is going.
 

[seafoid]

Possibly trying to force some sort of push against ISIS, on a multilateral basis.

The West is really lost trying to fight ISIS. Saudi is on the ball with infrastructure and money and it's also a key oil supplier so there's a huge conflict there.

[seafoid]

The flight cancellations will be a disaster for the egyptian economy. Sharm is a big source of foreign currency and to get there from Cairo you have to pass through 5 checkpoints- it's an artificial holiday oasis a  long way from the real Egypt. Loads of cash implications for a poor country.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/06/tourists-return-from-egypt-amid-reports-bomb-in-hold-downed-russian-airliner-live-updates