Joe Brolly

[longballin]

While I certainly would condemn the attack on Peader Heffnan or any other police officer, I fail to see this wonderful newly reformed PSNI. For example check Page 1 of today's Irish News were PSNI indicate they are set to appeal yesterday's judgement that to order police to complete investigation into dozens of murders carried out by the Glenanne Gang. So many examples in recent years looks like same ole police... baby sitting flag protests etc.. 

[Milltown Row2]

While I certainly would condemn the attack on Peader Heffnan or any other police officer, I fail to see this wonderful newly reformed PSNI. For example check Page 1 of today's Irish News were PSNI indicate they are set to appeal yesterday's judgement that to order police to complete investigation into dozens of murders carried out by the Glenanne Gang. So many examples in recent years looks like same ole police... baby sitting flag protests etc..

Thats like turkey's voting for xmas ffs! Higher end of the PSNI and to an extent the government decide on these things, why anyone would be surprised that they are to appeal something that will bring to justice, previous or current officers is beyond me... the police force needs to go through a clear out but you cant do it over night or in 20 years!

[Applesisapples]

While I certainly would condemn the attack on Peader Heffnan or any other police officer, I fail to see this wonderful newly reformed PSNI. For example check Page 1 of today's Irish News were PSNI indicate they are set to appeal yesterday's judgement that to order police to complete investigation into dozens of murders carried out by the Glenanne Gang. So many examples in recent years looks like same ole police... baby sitting flag protests etc..

Only way to change it is from with in. Read Brian Feeney's article in the IN, explains why the PSNI is struggling to be representative. That said if you ostracise your own people for joining how do you expect them to feel towards their community? We have to get on board. I know a number of Catholic officers who have had to move, some of them continued to play GAA but not with their home club. The nationalist community needs to start excepting them and pushing for further change. In relation to legacy cases it is perhaps more to do with cost than any antipathy to the nationalist community. Civilians going a police service bring their own views and prejudices with them irrespective of their religion, the only way to balance this is by joining. The PSNI are trying to recruit from west of the Band in particular. You'd get the impression that it would suit some agendas if the PSNI was more like the RUC, and I don't mean just Unionists.

[Rawhide]

Disappointed by Brolly, I have no problem with the Hefferon side of the story, a sad story and in terms of going forward it needed to be heard,  but to have turned on Creggan like he did, was poor form. There is not a rural club in the six counties that would have been much different back in 2002. Agree that the best way to change the PSNI culture is to increase catholic recruits, so it can be improved from within, but have to confess if my lads suggested it!!!

[longballin]

While I certainly would condemn the attack on Peader Heffnan or any other police officer, I fail to see this wonderful newly reformed PSNI. For example check Page 1 of today's Irish News were PSNI indicate they are set to appeal yesterday's judgement that to order police to complete investigation into dozens of murders carried out by the Glenanne Gang. So many examples in recent years looks like same ole police... baby sitting flag protests etc..

Thats like turkey's voting for xmas ffs! Higher end of the PSNI and to an extent the government decide on these things, why anyone would be surprised that they are to appeal something that will bring to justice, previous or current officers is beyond me... the police force needs to go through a clear out but you cant do it over night or in 20 years!

so why expect new Catholic recruits to get high fives from their community? Is very difficult to get past what the police still is...

[Hereiam]

If more of our side were to join the PSNI/RUC do people really think it will change, i dont. Its the people at the top that call the shots and they will always come from the protestant community , i have no doubt the Catholics in the force would be used for unsavory jobs by their protestant superiors.

[Milltown Row2]

If more of our side were to join the PSNI/RUC do people really think it will change, i dont. Its the people at the top that call the shots and they will always come from the protestant community , i have no doubt the Catholics in the force would be used for unsavory jobs by their protestant superiors.

They will only be at the top for so long. It will change, it has to but stop looking for changes right away or even in the short term, new recruits in the past 5/10 years are still learning their trade so to speak, the dinosaurs at the top need to retire but there is no experience there id imagine to fill it....

also the Cops are run by the government..

keep calling it the RUC and it wont attract the changes people in nationalist areas want, as the ordinary Joe from the Falls wont join! as someone mentioned above, there are a lot out there that would prefer things to be boiling over as it gives them an excuse to create tensions between the police... Hopefully you won't have to call on the PSNI/RUC for any issues as you'll not trust them

[vallankumous]

If more of our side were to join the PSNI/RUC do people really think it will change, i dont. Its the people at the top that call the shots and they will always come from the protestant community , i have no doubt the Catholics in the force would be used for unsavory jobs by their protestant superiors.

They will only be at the top for so long. It will change, it has to but stop looking for changes right away or even in the short term, new recruits in the past 5/10 years are still learning their trade so to speak, the dinosaurs at the top need to retire but there is no experience there id imagine to fill it....

also the Cops are run by the government..

keep calling it the RUC and it wont attract the changes people in nationalist areas want, as the ordinary Joe from the Falls wont join! as someone mentioned above, there are a lot out there that would prefer things to be boiling over as it gives them an excuse to create tensions between the police... Hopefully you won't have to call on the PSNI/RUC for any issues as you'll not trust them

If we look at this as a policing issue we will never get there. This is a legacy issue. If you want to get there we need a Truth Commission.

Your suggestion that some people would prefer things to boil over is a red herring. A minority not worth counting might prefer this. The rest of us want peace and justice and a fair reading of history with fair policing in the future.
I've seen it suggested here a few times without basis. Same trick Brolly used to attack Kickhams. 
There is nobody who does not want a police service they can have a relationship with. Again, the reasons why that is not the case across the board has nothing to do with Nationalists not joining. It's decades of built division. You are right, this will take time. Without a Truth Commission it will take a long time. There will never be a truth Commission and so it will take a long time.
If someone has already arrived at forgiveness or just have apathy then good for you. That does not give the right to judge those that are not there.

I'm fully convinced that no Nationalist wants to join the police force to better their community. I don't believe this is a motive for young people even though they might argue it and be told it after joining. the main motive for people joining the PSNI (on both sides) is because they want to be a police man or police woman.

[haranguerer]

Peadar Heffron wanted to join to bring about a UI 

[Milltown Row2]

And if its the case that they want to be a policeman or woman, (transgender, gay or whatever) what odds? As for the sweeping statement of you know they arent doing it for a better policing is wrong also, as you dont know this to be the case

The job will attract most people of that type, a steady job, good pension and retire early in life!

I've already mentioned a truth commission will that help everyone? i doubt it will, but stand to be corrected

No one is asking anyone to accept the police as it is, was, or how it will pan out, certainly not me, as I've said I havent lost anyone at the hands of the then RUC or the PNSI so i cant compare how someone who has is feeling.. have seen a lot of other stuff and my dad I'm sure would recount other stories from the late 50's early and late 60's but I would consider myself very fortunate on that score

If we continue to look to the past we wont get anywhere, putting up barriers everytime hasnt moved us on a lot also, the collapse of the local government seems to suit peoples agendas.. keep the fires burning

[vallankumous]

And if its the case that they want to be a policeman or woman, (transgender, gay or whatever) what odds? As for the sweeping statement of you know they arent doing it for a better policing is wrong also, as you dont know this to be the case

I said, I'm convinced and i believe it's the case. I made the point that it is me as an individual that thinks this not that it is some common fact.

In that I was referring to the idea in the original article that Peadar was motivated by civic duty which has been widely referred to in the wider media. I do not believe this is the case in anyone joining the PSNI.

[longballin]

And if its the case that they want to be a policeman or woman, (transgender, gay or whatever) what odds? As for the sweeping statement of you know they arent doing it for a better policing is wrong also, as you dont know this to be the case

The job will attract most people of that type, a steady job, good pension and retire early in life!

I've already mentioned a truth commission will that help everyone? i doubt it will, but stand to be corrected

No one is asking anyone to accept the police as it is, was, or how it will pan out, certainly not me, as I've said I havent lost anyone at the hands of the then RUC or the PNSI so i cant compare how someone who has is feeling.. have seen a lot of other stuff and my dad I'm sure would recount other stories from the late 50's early and late 60's but I would consider myself very fortunate on that score

If we continue to look to the past we wont get anywhere, putting up barriers everytime hasnt moved us on a lot also, the collapse of the local government seems to suit peoples agendas.. keep the fires burning

The present police force is less than impressive... so much of the old guard and mindset still there

[vallankumous]

If we continue to look to the past we wont get anywhere, putting up barriers everytime hasnt moved us on a lot also, the collapse of the local government seems to suit peoples agendas.. keep the fires burning

Brolly's story was about the pass. This is what we are discussing. Brolly seemed to forget that at the time it was in the present.

[Kickham csc]

If we continue to look to the past we wont get anywhere, putting up barriers everytime hasnt moved us on a lot also, the collapse of the local government seems to suit peoples agendas.. keep the fires burning

Brolly's story was about the pass. This is what we are discussing. Brolly seemed to forget that at the time it was in the present.

Yea, this story was a wasted opportunity.

I truly believe that if approached correctly, the club would have commenced reaching out to Peadar, and in a slowly, carefully planned process begin the reintroduction of Peadar to the Creggan community.  I work as a business change manager for a global/ multi national company. We have a 12 step change process,  and one of the early steps is anger / target audience not being ready for the change.

We never got past this phase of the PSNI change with Peadar, we never got to the acceptance and normalisation phase, so we needed to restart the journey where we left off.

How Joe approached this was to rewind 15 years to the start and stir up old emotions and create a bagful of new ones. This sledge hammer approach to change only fuels resentment and continued resistance to change and only hurts Peadar and the community more.

This had the potential to be a great story that could have showed how as time moveds on, old biases can transition into new positive outlooks on issues.

Now, we have Peadar understandably bitter and angry, and the Creggan community understandably suspicious that they are in a media campaign by Brolly to boost Brolly's profile. The community believe that Brolly has no genuine interest in a reconciliation between Peadar and Creggan, and any subsequent move will be exploited by Brolly to his gain

[Applesisapples]

Disappointed by Brolly, I have no problem with the Hefferon side of the story, a sad story and in terms of going forward it needed to be heard,  but to have turned on Creggan like he did, was poor form. There is not a rural club in the six counties that would have been much different back in 2002. Agree that the best way to change the PSNI culture is to increase catholic recruits, so it can be improved from within, but have to confess if my lads suggested it!!!

Joe Brolly did not turn on Creggan, they compounded the mistakes of the past by an inadequate and belated response.