Author Topic: Joe Brolly  (Read 440104 times)

Milltown Row2

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3975 on: November 07, 2017, 07:48:36 AM »
MR2, a dirty war yes. But the issue here is of the police, and the understandable reluctance of some nationalists to accept them or forget what they did in the past. I was merely pointing out that that's the reality.

But itís got to be done! Whatís the alternative here? We canít start another brand new force! Itís just got to take time...

I canít accept a large part of it.. I know that there is still covert operations going on to reduce the likes of the real IRA, old tactics of blackmailing low level republicans to be informants, that happens in every police force in all countries against criminals, thatís how the public view them now as the war is over

But if and (thatís a big if it was locals from his club) people are still gathering information to plot to kill police officers (catholic GAA men) in their own area youíd be a bit of a hypocrite to complain about underhand tactics and trust! Canít have it both ways
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

vallankumous

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3976 on: November 07, 2017, 08:05:49 AM »
You can't complain about an unbalanced police force if people from a Community won't join it

You have no concept of it.

Of course you can complain about an unbalanced police force.
Do you think young black men in the USA have no right to complain about being racially profiled by police? What sort of democracy do you want?
I'd guess most people do not but it seems when it comes to Ireland we are expected to suck it up.
When policing is wrong then it need to be said.

This is not an academic discussion for many. It's real live with real live experiences that has impacted on their view. Regardless of how black and white you or I might see it, that's not the reality for many.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 08:13:20 AM by vallankumous »

Applesisapples

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3977 on: November 07, 2017, 08:54:57 AM »
The security forces not only colluded with loyalists to murder innocent Catholics. They also intimidated, stopped and searched cars for no reason, long delays, threatening lads, man-handling them, made threats, etc. So many people have deep hatred for the RUC. And I'd say it's only lessened slightly since it's name change. If at all.

If you see anywhere where I said they didnít colluded then grand... but take off your rose tainted glasses and see it for what it was, a war a very dirty stinking war, and nobody fought Queensbury rules style... searched most days growing up, homes raided on a number of occasions, riots on a daily bases and family shot at wounded and beaten up, very lucky to not lose anyone, so I canít know how a person would feel losing a brother sister or parent... Iím sure itís tough

An eye for an eye attitude will make everyone blind, moving forward, albeit slowly is a hell of a lot better than the place I grew up in, dragging up the past is making the peace process painfully slow, people looking justice is right but an amnesty of sorts and a truth commission would heal a lot quicker

As for accepting the police, itís got to be done, at some point youíll have to call them and use them and put your trust in them!
Right on the money Milltown. You can't on the one hand expect people to forget the campaign of violence perpetrated by republicans and to accept the bone fides of the new peaceful republican movement and on the other denigrate members of your own community joining the PSNI and trying to make policing more representative. This is just wrong and any GAA club that would reject someone in those circumstances does not belong in the GAA.

redhandefender

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3978 on: November 07, 2017, 09:40:23 AM »
I think people are missing the point. Northern Ireland has changed a lot since this happened. Ok its nowhere near perfect but I think vast majority of clubs would handle it different in 2017. We are criticising a club which was faced with a new problem and there was no script!

Il Bomber Destro

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3979 on: November 07, 2017, 09:48:11 AM »
I can't see what the club were realistically expected to do?

The reaction to Heffron's choice was personal for each individual, it was in sync with what would have happened around most nationalist areas at that time. He lost friends over that choice. As far as I know there was no memo passed down from the club hierarchy telling them to freeze him out. He feels let down by his team mates but I'm sure a lot of his team mates, community and family also felt let down by one of their joining what was viewed at the time as an orange police force complicit in the murder of catholics and subverting justice for their families.

With regards men coming in with leaflets, it happened once from what I gather. It's not as if these lads sought permission from the club to do this, the fact is you could probably drive into any club ground around the country and walk into a dressing room no bother on a training ground. It's not as if clubs employ active security personnel on doors or gates.

It's understandable that Heffron feels bitterness and resentment towards the club for the way it played out. It's also understandable the way his team mates reacted toward his decision to join the PSNI. It's an unfortunate consequence of what were troubling times and one of hundreds or thousands that would have happened in  the North in a 30+ year period. The club seem to have been caught in the middle and I think they were doomed regardless of the choice they made.

The tone of Brolly's article was very dangerous, for a casual reader with no critical thought, it implicates Creggan in the attempted murder of one its own players which seems to be a million miles away from reality.

tothetop03

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3980 on: November 07, 2017, 09:50:12 AM »
I think people are missing the point. Northern Ireland has changed a lot since this happened. Ok its nowhere near perfect but I think vast majority of clubs would handle it different in 2017. We are criticising a club which was faced with a new problem and there was no script!


How many Gaa clubs had played joined Psni and kept playing for there own club.... i know one player from a Neighbouring club but he moved away.....
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 09:52:02 AM by tothetop03 »

Rossfan

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3981 on: November 07, 2017, 09:50:59 AM »
In the midst of all the criticism of the Club, Brolly, Peadar himself etc is anybody criticising the real b**tards here - the cowardly anti democratic cnuts who tried to kill the poor chap?
2017 Double Connacht Champions

redhandefender

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3982 on: November 07, 2017, 09:54:24 AM »
I think people are missing the point. Northern Ireland has changed a lot since this happened. Ok its nowhere near perfect but I think vast majority of clubs would handle it different in 2017. We are criticising a club which was faced with a new problem and there was no script!


How many Gaa clubs had played joined Psni and kept playing for there own club.... i know one player from a Neighbouring club but he moved away.....

There is no way of knowing that and more importantly how can you say they were ousted by there own clubs. I know one who done it for security reasons.

Walter Cronc

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3983 on: November 07, 2017, 09:57:05 AM »
Might have been discussed but should Kickhams not have stopped the leaflets being handed out? Easier said than done obviously.

Kickham csc

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3984 on: November 07, 2017, 10:03:09 AM »
In the midst of all the criticism of the Club, Brolly, Peadar himself etc is anybody criticising the real b**tards here - the cowardly anti democratic cnuts who tried to kill the poor chap?

Spot on. It really is a f%$ded up world where the people who actually did the deed, can sit back and watch everybody else tear strips out of each other

tothetop03

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3985 on: November 07, 2017, 10:03:20 AM »
I think Joe has over stepped his mark here and is misinterpreted the thinking of most clubs on this subject.... 

screenexile

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3986 on: November 07, 2017, 10:04:21 AM »
The security forces not only colluded with loyalists to murder innocent Catholics. They also intimidated, stopped and searched cars for no reason, long delays, threatening lads, man-handling them, made threats, etc. So many people have deep hatred for the RUC. And I'd say it's only lessened slightly since it's name change. If at all.

If you see anywhere where I said they didnít colluded then grand... but take off your rose tainted glasses and see it for what it was, a war a very dirty stinking war, and nobody fought Queensbury rules style... searched most days growing up, homes raided on a number of occasions, riots on a daily bases and family shot at wounded and beaten up, very lucky to not lose anyone, so I canít know how a person would feel losing a brother sister or parent... Iím sure itís tough

An eye for an eye attitude will make everyone blind, moving forward, albeit slowly is a hell of a lot better than the place I grew up in, dragging up the past is making the peace process painfully slow, people looking justice is right but an amnesty of sorts and a truth commission would heal a lot quicker

As for accepting the police, itís got to be done, at some point youíll have to call them and use them and put your trust in them!
Right on the money Milltown. You can't on the one hand expect people to forget the campaign of violence perpetrated by republicans and to accept the bone fides of the new peaceful republican movement and on the other denigrate members of your own community joining the PSNI and trying to make policing more representative. This is just wrong and any GAA club that would reject someone in those circumstances does not belong in the GAA.

I agree with most of what you're saying aia but I think the last bit is wrong.

Yes Creggan did not handle the situation correctly at the time and the way Peadar was treated in not being picked for the team or even acknowledged in training games is despicable, the club should have backed him.

Having said that it was a challenging time for Nationalist communities to get their head around a "new" police force and while they should have shown the leadership and foresight to back him it wasn't just quite as simple as that. If they issue an apology and reach out to Peadar for what happened and why it happened I think it would ease the situation.

They probably won't though.

tothetop03

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3987 on: November 07, 2017, 10:07:47 AM »
I think people are missing the point. Northern Ireland has changed a lot since this happened. Ok its nowhere near perfect but I think vast majority of clubs would handle it different in 2017. We are criticising a club which was faced with a new problem and there was no script!


How many Gaa clubs had played joined Psni and kept playing for there own club.... i know one player from a Neighbouring club but he moved away.....

There is no way of knowing that and more importantly how can you say they were ousted by there own clubs. I know one who done it for security reasons.

The one i know was not ousted he left the area due too as you say security reasons..... also i know two neighbouring clubs got themselves into a mess by inviting the Psni to their clubs and had to backtrack when they realised what potential harm it may do by the reaction of their membership and in one case their players!!

Kickham csc

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3988 on: November 07, 2017, 10:08:31 AM »
Might have been discussed but should Kickhams not have stopped the leaflets being handed out? Easier said than done obviously.

It was a one off event, happened after a training session.

Half the lads were in the shower, a number didn't realise what was happened until after a minute of so, and it was over within minutes.

No leaflets were handed out before or after that incident

Also, we were probably like any other club, we trained Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sunday mornings, same time for about 30 years. So somebody in the team or the club might have invited the lads in, but can say for sure as it wouldn't been hard for outsiders to figure out our schedule

Walter Cronc

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3989 on: November 07, 2017, 10:12:45 AM »
Might have been discussed but should Kickhams not have stopped the leaflets being handed out? Easier said than done obviously.

It was a one off event, happened after a training session.

Half the lads were in the shower, a number didn't realise what was happened until after a minute of so, and it was over within minutes.

No leaflets were handed out before or after that incident

Also, we were probably like any other club, we trained Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sunday mornings, same time for about 30 years. So somebody in the team or the club might have invited the lads in, but can say for sure as it wouldn't been hard for outsiders to figure out our schedule

Cheers Kickham!