Joe Brolly

[vallankumous]

Peadar would undoubtedly been treated similarly in other clubs, but that doesn't make it right. Nor does the fact that we do not like what Joe has written in his articles make them pure bollocks. There is a reason why only one side of the story is out there and that is the lack of adequate response from Kickhams. Are we seriously suggesting that any one who joins the PSNI should not be allowed to remain as part of their community? If so that is wrong in so many ways.

ū

Kickhams do not owe an explanation. This is not a Kickhams story anymore. This is a legacy issue not a club issue. To expect any more from Kickhams is deliberately missing the point for some other non Kickhams reason.

That reason is probably designed by Brolly.

[tothetop03]

How many people's  on here would be confident the Psni presence at a function or a Psni man being accepted openly as a player would NOT split your club right to its foundations??

[Therealdonald]

My own club yes it would probably split us right down the middle at committee level. On a personal level, I don't think players would have an issue with it mainly because younger demographic and grew up with less aggro from the PSNI than our parents did with the RUC. I know I can say wholeheartedly that if wouldn't be an issue player wise.

[Rossfan]

You can't complain about an unbalanced police force if people from a Community won't join it

[Owen Brannigan]

You can't complain about an unbalanced police force if people from a Community won't join it

+1

It suits SF and supporters to have PSNI unbalanced as it fits an on-going narrative about the PSNI, hence the ambiguous and barely there support for the police.  If SF really wanted to have a full community force it would be actively encouraging young Catholic people to join the PSNI, infiltrate its ranks all the way to the top.  Instead, by allowing the IRA threats to any Catholic in the force to dominate the discussion, recruitment remains one sided, the mopery can continue and the SF narrative on the police continues to be reinforced.

Remember Justin McNulty's words on BBC, "Young Irishmen and women who join the Garda are Irish police. Young Irishmen and women who join the PSNI are Irish police," he added. "They should be admired by the community for the service they provide."

[tothetop03]

My own club yes it would probably split us right down the middle at committee level. On a personal level, I don't think players would have an issue with it mainly because younger demographic and grew up with less aggro from the PSNI than our parents did with the RUC. I know I can say wholeheartedly that if wouldn't be an issue player wise.

My club is the same, we have 3 playing members executed by the security forces, who now are described as legacy cases waiting on inquests where the Ruc firstly and now the Psni will not release the files for the inquests... So not as simple in most clubs as opening the arms up to the PSNI...

[Milltown Row2]

The issue of nationalists in the north and our relationships with policing are too complex and historical to be left in the hands of someone like Joe Brolly.

The first thing to remember is that I'm sure many members of that club had loved ones murdered as a direct result of RUC Collusion with loyalist paramilitary gangs.  That sort of thing leaves a deep seated resentment that is very difficult to move.

Second; it is unfair to throw everything at just one club and think that they are to blame for what happened to  Peadar.  There are very few clubs in the north who would have been entirely comfortable with having a PSNI member in their ranks back then.

Third - The history between the GAA and the police in the north was once so bad that the Ulster Council decided to do its business entirely through Irish, just in case they might be listening in.

Fourth - The fact that every week (this week it's Loughinisland), there is a shocking example of RUC Special Branch collusion just makes it even harder for nationalists to stomach policing in this jurisdiction, although the current PSNI are very professional and are doing their best.

There are two totally separate issues at play here and I think the Kickham's ire is justifiably pointed at this element of the narrative.  It is very hard to stop individuals within a team from deciding to marginalise a player who decided to join the PSNI.  However, trying to kill him is a totally different situation and there is no way that any of these lads in his club would have gone that far.  Joe Brolly needs to clarify that he is not accusing members of the Kickham's club for setting him up because I'm sure this is causing terrible tension within the club.

Just leave the club alone.  Clubs want to be allowed to undertake their core business, training, coaching etc.  They don't want to have to be left to solve all the ills of society.  The GAA is expected to solve drug taking, gambling, drinking, mental health, fast driving, old people's isolation, diet, dental health and now we have to solve the troubles.

I'd say there's a totally different committee now in that club. Just let them get on with their job.

Your first post, can you clarify it? As it seems to me that anybody that was killed on catholic side was arranged by the police? ... now collusion was rife but to say Creggan had members killed (I'm not sure they had any btw) and if they did it was on the police say so is a bit much ...

Loyalist gangs murdered at will, to say they did have police collusion with most of their murders would be strange considering the amount of loyalists that were locked up for murder, I get the rouge peelers, I get the agents the police had on both sides that allowed murderers away with it to keep the handlers with info but spare me the bullshit please

[BennyCake]

The security forces not only colluded with loyalists to murder innocent Catholics. They also intimidated, stopped and searched cars for no reason, long delays, threatening lads, man-handling them, made threats, etc. So many people have deep hatred for the RUC. And I'd say it's only lessened slightly since it's name change. If at all.

[Milltown Row2]

The security forces not only colluded with loyalists to murder innocent Catholics. They also intimidated, stopped and searched cars for no reason, long delays, threatening lads, man-handling them, made threats, etc. So many people have deep hatred for the RUC. And I'd say it's only lessened slightly since it's name change. If at all.

If you see anywhere where I said they didn't colluded then grand... but take off your rose tainted glasses and see it for what it was, a war a very dirty stinking war, and nobody fought Queensbury rules style... searched most days growing up, homes raided on a number of occasions, riots on a daily bases and family shot at wounded and beaten up, very lucky to not lose anyone, so I can't know how a person would feel losing a brother sister or parent... I'm sure it's tough

An eye for an eye attitude will make everyone blind, moving forward, albeit slowly is a hell of a lot better than the place I grew up in, dragging up the past is making the peace process painfully slow, people looking justice is right but an amnesty of sorts and a truth commission would heal a lot quicker

As for accepting the police, it's got to be done, at some point you'll have to call them and use them and put your trust in them!

[Rossfan]

/quote]

And ithe will be easier if 44% of them are from the Catholic/Nationalist Community.
But if they're discouraged from joining.....

[BennyCake]

MR2, a dirty war yes. But the issue here is of the police, and the understandable reluctance of some nationalists to accept them or forget what they did in the past. I was merely pointing out that that's the reality.

[Milltown Row2]

MR2, a dirty war yes. But the issue here is of the police, and the understandable reluctance of some nationalists to accept them or forget what they did in the past. I was merely pointing out that that's the reality.

But it's got to be done! What's the alternative here? We can't start another brand new force! It's just got to take time...

I can't accept a large part of it.. I know that there is still covert operations going on to reduce the likes of the real IRA, old tactics of blackmailing low level republicans to be informants, that happens in every police force in all countries against criminals, that's how the public view them now as the war is over

But if and (that's a big if it was locals from his club) people are still gathering information to plot to kill police officers (catholic GAA men) in their own area you'd be a bit of a hypocrite to complain about underhand tactics and trust! Can't have it both ways

[vallankumous]

You can't complain about an unbalanced police force if people from a Community won't join it

You have no concept of it.

Of course you can complain about an unbalanced police force.
Do you think young black men in the USA have no right to complain about being racially profiled by police? What sort of democracy do you want?
I'd guess most people do not but it seems when it comes to Ireland we are expected to suck it up.
When policing is wrong then it need to be said.

This is not an academic discussion for many. It's real live with real live experiences that has impacted on their view. Regardless of how black and white you or I might see it, that's not the reality for many.

[Applesisapples]

The security forces not only colluded with loyalists to murder innocent Catholics. They also intimidated, stopped and searched cars for no reason, long delays, threatening lads, man-handling them, made threats, etc. So many people have deep hatred for the RUC. And I'd say it's only lessened slightly since it's name change. If at all.

If you see anywhere where I said they didn't colluded then grand... but take off your rose tainted glasses and see it for what it was, a war a very dirty stinking war, and nobody fought Queensbury rules style... searched most days growing up, homes raided on a number of occasions, riots on a daily bases and family shot at wounded and beaten up, very lucky to not lose anyone, so I can't know how a person would feel losing a brother sister or parent... I'm sure it's tough

An eye for an eye attitude will make everyone blind, moving forward, albeit slowly is a hell of a lot better than the place I grew up in, dragging up the past is making the peace process painfully slow, people looking justice is right but an amnesty of sorts and a truth commission would heal a lot quicker

As for accepting the police, it's got to be done, at some point you'll have to call them and use them and put your trust in them!

Right on the money Milltown. You can't on the one hand expect people to forget the campaign of violence perpetrated by republicans and to accept the bone fides of the new peaceful republican movement and on the other denigrate members of your own community joining the PSNI and trying to make policing more representative. This is just wrong and any GAA club that would reject someone in those circumstances does not belong in the GAA.

[redhandefender]

I think people are missing the point. Northern Ireland has changed a lot since this happened. Ok its nowhere near perfect but I think vast majority of clubs would handle it different in 2017. We are criticising a club which was faced with a new problem and there was no script!