Author Topic: Joe Brolly  (Read 440095 times)

TabClear

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3960 on: November 06, 2017, 04:03:15 PM »
Brolly was giving out on twitter in the last week or two about "Compulsory Temporary Moral Outrage (CTMO)" with regards the Tom Humphries case. 

Now he's creating it with this issue until the next big talking point comes along.
I tweeted this to him this morning. He hasn't replied. There are a load of other tweets he made last week about the Humphries case that he is now arguing directly against.

Joe is engaging in some rather blatant hypocrisy here. Last week he was, correctly, railing against the vilification of character witnesses and defending the ďrule of lawĒ against knee jerk calls to implement summary ďjusticeĒ based on emotion and outrage. He called for discussion of serious criminal cases to always be measured.

Then, a few days later, he had an article published which went against all that, and which tried and convicted people of blowing up Peadar Heffron based on no evidence and purely on emotive outrage. He vilified an entire club and an entire area in the process.

He repeated this yesterday.

Peadar Heffron undoubtedly has a story to tell that is worth hearing, but we are only hearing one side of the story in the media, a story in which key parts are disputed, and, most seriously, are invited to try and convict people based purely on conjecture.

And is anyone surprised? Joe's "opinions" are intended to maximize value to Joe and are subject to change if it benefits Joe.

Applesisapples

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3961 on: November 06, 2017, 04:18:21 PM »
Peadar would undoubtedly been treated similarly in other clubs, but that doesn't make it right. Nor does the fact that we do not like what Joe has written in his articles make them pure bollocks. There is a reason why only one side of the story is out there and that is the lack of adequate response from Kickhams. Are we seriously suggesting that any one who joins the PSNI should not be allowed to remain as part of their community? If so that is wrong in so many ways.

haranguerer

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3962 on: November 06, 2017, 04:34:47 PM »
Not other clubs Apples, thats the point - any other community. Kickhams aren't to blame, the GAA aren't to blame. They are community organisations so inevitably reflect their communities. If we are looking at how Peadar was treated then we need to blame the whole nationalist community, not one organisation or one club. And when we look at it on that scale, then it might be easier to realise that perhaps there were valid reasons for the nationalist community to be suspicious of the police.

Of course it would have been great if nationalists had accepted the PSNI overnight. But does anyone actually think that was a reasonable expectation?? The GAA and Kickhams are being vilified for being representative of their communities - thats not fair.

longballin

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3963 on: November 06, 2017, 04:57:11 PM »
The most astonishing thing for me is the amount of high profile journalists coming out and stating that this is outstanding journalism.

This point can not be over stated.

as I asked before without response... such as which journalist?

https://twitter.com/yvetteshapiro/status/927458084192161792

https://twitter.com/MarkCarruthers7/status/924751522633867264

Ok fair enough... didnt see that before.

vallankumous

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3964 on: November 06, 2017, 05:02:15 PM »
Peadar would undoubtedly been treated similarly in other clubs, but that doesn't make it right. Nor does the fact that we do not like what Joe has written in his articles make them pure bollocks. There is a reason why only one side of the story is out there and that is the lack of adequate response from Kickhams. Are we seriously suggesting that any one who joins the PSNI should not be allowed to remain as part of their community? If so that is wrong in so many ways.
ū

Kickhams do not owe an explanation. This is not a Kickhams story anymore. This is a legacy issue not a club issue. To expect any more from Kickhams is deliberately missing the point for some other non Kickhams reason.

That reason is probably designed by Brolly.

tothetop03

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3965 on: November 06, 2017, 06:26:25 PM »
How many people's  on here would be confident the Psni presence at a function or a Psni man being accepted openly as a player would NOT split your club right to its foundations??

Therealdonald

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3966 on: November 06, 2017, 07:24:01 PM »
My own club yes it would probably split us right down the middle at committee level. On a personal level, I don't think players would have an issue with it mainly because younger demographic and grew up with less aggro from the PSNI than our parents did with the RUC. I know I can say wholeheartedly that if wouldn't be an issue player wise.

Rossfan

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3967 on: November 06, 2017, 07:45:45 PM »
You can't complain about an unbalanced police force if people from a Community won't join it
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Owen Brannigan

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3968 on: November 06, 2017, 08:02:38 PM »
You can't complain about an unbalanced police force if people from a Community won't join it

+1

It suits SF and supporters to have PSNI unbalanced as it fits an on-going narrative about the PSNI, hence the ambiguous and barely there support for the police.  If SF really wanted to have a full community force it would be actively encouraging young Catholic people to join the PSNI, infiltrate its ranks all the way to the top.  Instead, by allowing the IRA threats to any Catholic in the force to dominate the discussion, recruitment remains one sided, the mopery can continue and the SF narrative on the police continues to be reinforced.

Remember Justin McNulty's words on BBC, "Young Irishmen and women who join the Garda are Irish police. Young Irishmen and women who join the PSNI are Irish police," he added. "They should be admired by the community for the service they provide."

tothetop03

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3969 on: November 06, 2017, 08:04:33 PM »
My own club yes it would probably split us right down the middle at committee level. On a personal level, I don't think players would have an issue with it mainly because younger demographic and grew up with less aggro from the PSNI than our parents did with the RUC. I know I can say wholeheartedly that if wouldn't be an issue player wise.

My club is the same, we have 3 playing members executed by the security forces, who now are described as legacy cases waiting on inquests where the Ruc firstly and now the Psni will not release the files for the inquests... So not as simple in most clubs as opening the arms up to the PSNI...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 08:06:29 PM by tothetop03 »

Milltown Row2

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3970 on: November 06, 2017, 09:00:20 PM »
The issue of nationalists in the north and our relationships with policing are too complex and historical to be left in the hands of someone like Joe Brolly.

The first thing to remember is that I'm sure many members of that club had loved ones murdered as a direct result of RUC Collusion with loyalist paramilitary gangs.  That sort of thing leaves a deep seated resentment that is very difficult to move.

Second; it is unfair to throw everything at just one club and think that they are to blame for what happened to  Peadar.  There are very few clubs in the north who would have been entirely comfortable with having a PSNI member in their ranks back then.

Third - The history between the GAA and the police in the north was once so bad that the Ulster Council decided to do its business entirely through Irish, just in case they might be listening in.

Fourth - The fact that every week (this week it's Loughinisland), there is a shocking example of RUC Special Branch collusion just makes it even harder for nationalists to stomach policing in this jurisdiction, although the current PSNI are very professional and are doing their best.

There are two totally separate issues at play here and I think the Kickham's ire is justifiably pointed at this element of the narrative.  It is very hard to stop individuals within a team from deciding to marginalise a player who decided to join the PSNI.  However, trying to kill him is a totally different situation and there is no way that any of these lads in his club would have gone that far.  Joe Brolly needs to clarify that he is not accusing members of the Kickham's club for setting him up because I'm sure this is causing terrible tension within the club.

Just leave the club alone.  Clubs want to be allowed to undertake their core business, training, coaching etc.  They don't want to have to be left to solve all the ills of society.  The GAA is expected to solve drug taking, gambling, drinking, mental health, fast driving, old people's isolation, diet, dental health and now we have to solve the troubles.

I'd say there's a totally different committee now in that club. Just let them get on with their job.

Your first post, can you clarify it? As it seems to me that anybody that was killed on catholic side was arranged by the police? ... now collusion was rife but to say Creggan had members killed (Iím not sure they had any btw) and if they did it was on the police say so is a bit much ...

Loyalist gangs murdered at will, to say they did have police collusion with most of their murders would be strange considering the amount of loyalists that were locked up for murder, I get the rouge peelers, I get the agents the police had on both sides that allowed murderers away with it to keep the handlers with info but spare me the bullshit please
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

BennyCake

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3971 on: November 06, 2017, 11:19:17 PM »
The security forces not only colluded with loyalists to murder innocent Catholics. They also intimidated, stopped and searched cars for no reason, long delays, threatening lads, man-handling them, made threats, etc. So many people have deep hatred for the RUC. And I'd say it's only lessened slightly since it's name change. If at all.

Milltown Row2

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3972 on: November 06, 2017, 11:33:14 PM »
The security forces not only colluded with loyalists to murder innocent Catholics. They also intimidated, stopped and searched cars for no reason, long delays, threatening lads, man-handling them, made threats, etc. So many people have deep hatred for the RUC. And I'd say it's only lessened slightly since it's name change. If at all.

If you see anywhere where I said they didnít colluded then grand... but take off your rose tainted glasses and see it for what it was, a war a very dirty stinking war, and nobody fought Queensbury rules style... searched most days growing up, homes raided on a number of occasions, riots on a daily bases and family shot at wounded and beaten up, very lucky to not lose anyone, so I canít know how a person would feel losing a brother sister or parent... Iím sure itís tough

An eye for an eye attitude will make everyone blind, moving forward, albeit slowly is a hell of a lot better than the place I grew up in, dragging up the past is making the peace process painfully slow, people looking justice is right but an amnesty of sorts and a truth commission would heal a lot quicker

As for accepting the police, itís got to be done, at some point youíll have to call them and use them and put your trust in them!
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Rossfan

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3973 on: November 06, 2017, 11:45:03 PM »
Quote from: Milltown Row2

As for accepting the police, itís got to be done, at some point youíll have to call them and use them and put your trust in them!
[/quote

And ithe will be easier if 44% of them are from the Catholic/Nationalist Community.
But if they're discouraged from joining.....
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BennyCake

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Re: Joe Brolly
« Reply #3974 on: November 07, 2017, 12:04:17 AM »
MR2, a dirty war yes. But the issue here is of the police, and the understandable reluctance of some nationalists to accept them or forget what they did in the past. I was merely pointing out that that's the reality.