Joe Brolly

[Kickham csc]

Joe sets out his challenges to GAA members and Creggan GAC:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/columnists/joe-brolly/joe-brolly-all-of-us-in-the-gaa-in-the-six-counties-have-been-part-of-a-culture-of-silence-of-cowardice-36290151.html

Joe nails it again. Kickham CC has stated that we don't know the facts and Brolly's article is one sided. Of course it is because its Peadar Hefforn's view from where he is now. He admits to some bitterness. But how can you have all the facts if the club doesn't speak openly from its perspective. Their statement as Brolly says is self serving and does not address the issues that the article raised.

I agree, disappointed with the statement, sounds like it was written by a Sinn Fein PR guru to make the issue go away, instead of accurately stating what happened, and reah out to Peadar.

I understand Joe's  "Rotten to the Core" comment didn't go down well, and the tentative bridges between Peadar and the community have been weakened further which might have influenced the statement

[redhandefender]

I think Brollys article is a disgrace. What the hell is he getting at with the article above? Trying even up attacking both sides of the community? His article just highlights the divides which have always existed and I am sire were prevalent in Kickhams area.

This was new and unchartered waters and nobody really knew how to react. We find it difficult to get out club to do anything in unison and we are much smaller than them. We also have people in the club who haven't moved on and have deep seeded republican beliefs, but what do you start throwing them out? we wouldn't have a club left. I've proposed coaching in local protestant schools etc but even still you get funny looks.

We also have a player who left his own club due to a few words about joining the cops and joined us. There was never any issue but we are a majority nationalist area so there was never much bother from loyalists etc on our club.

They were different times and there was no right answer. Very harsh to blacken the whole club nation wide when the characters involved probably aren't even about the club anymore.

[JohnDenver]

Brolly was giving out on twitter in the last week or two about "Compulsory Temporary Moral Outrage (CTMO)" with regards the Tom Humphries case. 

Now he's creating it with this issue until the next big talking point comes along.

[Seany]

The issue of nationalists in the north and our relationships with policing are too complex and historical to be left in the hands of someone like Joe Brolly.

The first thing to remember is that I'm sure many members of that club had loved ones murdered as a direct result of RUC Collusion with loyalist paramilitary gangs.  That sort of thing leaves a deep seated resentment that is very difficult to move.

Second; it is unfair to throw everything at just one club and think that they are to blame for what happened to  Peadar.  There are very few clubs in the north who would have been entirely comfortable with having a PSNI member in their ranks back then.

Third - The history between the GAA and the police in the north was once so bad that the Ulster Council decided to do its business entirely through Irish, just in case they might be listening in.

Fourth - The fact that every week (this week it's Loughinisland), there is a shocking example of RUC Special Branch collusion just makes it even harder for nationalists to stomach policing in this jurisdiction, although the current PSNI are very professional and are doing their best.

There are two totally separate issues at play here and I think the Kickham's ire is justifiably pointed at this element of the narrative.  It is very hard to stop individuals within a team from deciding to marginalise a player who decided to join the PSNI.  However, trying to kill him is a totally different situation and there is no way that any of these lads in his club would have gone that far.  Joe Brolly needs to clarify that he is not accusing members of the Kickham's club for setting him up because I'm sure this is causing terrible tension within the club.

Just leave the club alone.  Clubs want to be allowed to undertake their core business, training, coaching etc.  They don't want to have to be left to solve all the ills of society.  The GAA is expected to solve drug taking, gambling, drinking, mental health, fast driving, old people's isolation, diet, dental health and now we have to solve the troubles.

I'd say there's a totally different committee now in that club. Just let them get on with their job. 

[vallankumous]

The most astonishing thing for me is the amount of high profile journalists coming out and stating that this is outstanding journalism.

This point can not be over stated.

[vallankumous]

I think Brolly has burnt any bridges he had with clubs in the north. He has lost control of this.

[longballin]

The most astonishing thing for me is the amount of high profile journalists coming out and stating that this is outstanding journalism.

This point can not be over stated.

as I asked before without response... such as which journalist?

[vallankumous]

A Mark Carruthers

Not only journalists but also many influential people in sport and politics.

[sid waddell]

Brolly was giving out on twitter in the last week or two about "Compulsory Temporary Moral Outrage (CTMO)" with regards the Tom Humphries case. 

Now he's creating it with this issue until the next big talking point comes along.

I tweeted this to him this morning. He hasn't replied. There are a load of other tweets he made last week about the Humphries case that he is now arguing directly against.

Joe is engaging in some rather blatant hypocrisy here. Last week he was, correctly, railing against the vilification of character witnesses and defending the "rule of law" against knee jerk calls to implement summary "justice" based on emotion and outrage. He called for discussion of serious criminal cases to always be measured.

Then, a few days later, he had an article published which went against all that, and which tried and convicted people of blowing up Peadar Heffron based on no evidence and purely on emotive outrage. He vilified an entire club and an entire area in the process.

He repeated this yesterday.

Peadar Heffron undoubtedly has a story to tell that is worth hearing, but we are only hearing one side of the story in the media, a story in which key parts are disputed, and, most seriously, are invited to try and convict people based purely on conjecture.

[AQMP]

The most astonishing thing for me is the amount of high profile journalists coming out and stating that this is outstanding journalism.

This point can not be over stated.

as I asked before without response... such as which journalist?

https://twitter.com/yvetteshapiro/status/927458084192161792

https://twitter.com/MarkCarruthers7/status/924751522633867264

[haranguerer]

Shapiro says 'the more uncomfortable the read, the better the journalism'. What a bollocks.

When the article first came out, I did think there was merit in it, albeit as usual Joe over-egged the pudding. Given the subsequent further articles, when he might have provided balance but chose not to, I've lost most of the time i had for any of it. Peadar would have been treated that way in almost every nationalist community in the north, the gaa club hasn't anything to do with it. There were very good reasons why this was the case. Looking back now and putting a different complexion on history does a great disservice, provides a stick for the gaa many are only too willing to yield, and sets back the gaa's journey to acceptance across the board in the north, decades.

[TabClear]

Brolly was giving out on twitter in the last week or two about "Compulsory Temporary Moral Outrage (CTMO)" with regards the Tom Humphries case. 

Now he's creating it with this issue until the next big talking point comes along.

I tweeted this to him this morning. He hasn't replied. There are a load of other tweets he made last week about the Humphries case that he is now arguing directly against.

Joe is engaging in some rather blatant hypocrisy here. Last week he was, correctly, railing against the vilification of character witnesses and defending the "rule of law" against knee jerk calls to implement summary "justice" based on emotion and outrage. He called for discussion of serious criminal cases to always be measured.

Then, a few days later, he had an article published which went against all that, and which tried and convicted people of blowing up Peadar Heffron based on no evidence and purely on emotive outrage. He vilified an entire club and an entire area in the process.

He repeated this yesterday.

Peadar Heffron undoubtedly has a story to tell that is worth hearing, but we are only hearing one side of the story in the media, a story in which key parts are disputed, and, most seriously, are invited to try and convict people based purely on conjecture.

And is anyone surprised? Joe's "opinions" are intended to maximize value to Joe and are subject to change if it benefits Joe.

[Applesisapples]

Peadar would undoubtedly been treated similarly in other clubs, but that doesn't make it right. Nor does the fact that we do not like what Joe has written in his articles make them pure bollocks. There is a reason why only one side of the story is out there and that is the lack of adequate response from Kickhams. Are we seriously suggesting that any one who joins the PSNI should not be allowed to remain as part of their community? If so that is wrong in so many ways.

[haranguerer]

Not other clubs Apples, thats the point - any other community. Kickhams aren't to blame, the GAA aren't to blame. They are community organisations so inevitably reflect their communities. If we are looking at how Peadar was treated then we need to blame the whole nationalist community, not one organisation or one club. And when we look at it on that scale, then it might be easier to realise that perhaps there were valid reasons for the nationalist community to be suspicious of the police.

Of course it would have been great if nationalists had accepted the PSNI overnight. But does anyone actually think that was a reasonable expectation?? The GAA and Kickhams are being vilified for being representative of their communities - thats not fair.

[longballin]

The most astonishing thing for me is the amount of high profile journalists coming out and stating that this is outstanding journalism.

This point can not be over stated.

as I asked before without response... such as which journalist?

https://twitter.com/yvetteshapiro/status/927458084192161792

https://twitter.com/MarkCarruthers7/status/924751522633867264

Ok fair enough... didnt see that before.