Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[PadraicHenryPearse]

total and utter bullshit. I am not a member of an political party, I wonder are you?

No one said Higgins is a great fella for using the same words.. but not like you to set a false narrative.

He doesn't  have the same power and his words and language are very different to Martin and Varadker. I know you struggle to see the importance of the language used by media/people and the impacts it has but his language/tone is not the same as the cowards. he could do more though.

firstly both of these lads are blocking occupied territories bills. and just this week FG MEPs voted for the recent EU statement critised even by Amnesty.

We should and can side with SA, the excuses keep coming and changing for why we don't side with SA, first it was SA did it so no reason for us to do it, (then others joined) then it was we are part of Europe and we are another bloc, (then German spoke out and now Slovenia joining another ICJ case) now this other crap and process etc.

I shared an article recently where Varadker even questioned if it was a genocide for f**k sake.

They are not leading on this issue in Europe, the irish people are, the Irish government are weak and cowards and hiding behind weasel words.

there are no hamas apologists on this forum only those who support their right to resistence enshrined in international law, but it does your argument some favours to label me and others as some of extremist again when we call for ceasefires and a just resolution to 75 years of occupation. Putting us on the same level as those committing a genocide shows how your opinion should be valued.

[Itchy]

How Ireland works: Micheal Martin given an opinion piece in the biggest National Paper to explain away his inaction on Gaza.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/micheal-martin-ireland-will-rigorously-examine-un-genocide-case-against-israel-before-intervening/a363669127.html

First 2 paragraphs

Day after day, we are seeing the evidence on our TV screens and social media feeds of horrific civilian deaths, including children, mass displacement and destruction, and entirely inadequate access for the UN and international organisations to provide vital humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza.

This is not acceptable. It cannot continue. The brutality of the terrorist attack by Hamas in Israel on October 7 and the continued indiscriminate rocket fire by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups into Israel cannot justify the horrifying impact on Gaza's civilians of Israel's military operation.

People are "dying" on tv screen (I assume it must be from some disease as there is no mention of them being killed, bombed or shot)

However, in the 2nd paragraph we see that Hamas are Terrorists, attacked Israel and fire rockets indiscriminately. Micheal almost grew a pair then when he says Israel cannot justify the impact. So close, he almost said Israel cannot justify targeting civilians, hospitals, schools, universities. Oh well, he is a balless goon at the end of the day.

The rest of his article is just waffle about why he hasn't intervened on the ICJ. But fair play to the Indo for giving this cretin a soapbox.

a Coward using weasel words... a hypocrite some might say 🤔

Again, anti-FF, anti-FG hypocrisy. Accuse Martin and Varadkar of using weasel words, but Michael D is great fella for using the exact same words! Pure hypocrisy. Those are the three most prominent leaders of this country and they have been totally side by side on their views.

Martin said this in that article:
Hamas actions 'cannot justify the horrifying impact on Gaza's civilians of Israel's military operation'

That's clear and unequivocal.

He also explained exactly what Ireland's position is re the ICJ South Africa v Israel case and likely future direction. It's exactly the right strategy.

You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins.

Why didn't he say the cause of death of 25k Palestinians was Israel during missiles at them, yet he mentions Hamas firing missiles indiscriminately at Israel. Which is the equivalent of throwing a stone at someone relative to the the fire power Israel have. Only a FF shill could think his words anything but weasel words.

The below link is what Michael D said. He is restricted in what he can say yet his statement is much more hard hitting than cowardly Michael Martin. You'd have to have a poor grasp of English to miss the differences.


https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/11/02/horrific-loss-of-life-in-gaza-and-israel-has-to-be-addressed-says-michael-d-higgins/

[seafoid]

EU politics is not the Liveline. Taking down Zionism is a long term project. The opposition and Paddy Cosgrave can take positions but the Government needs to take a snooker approach. Actions have to line up with the next one . It is strategic. This is is senior hurling.
 Michael D provides the parameters to remind the Europeans who we are.  The diplomats do the heavy lifting. At the moment the Germans, the Dutch , VdL and the Yanks are pro genocide.

"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion " Steve Walt

Those forces have to be built.

Even the most brilliant political strategies must ultimately be measured against their outcomes.


Varadkar is not a coward.Neither is Martin.

Ireland will not let the Palestinians down.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

we are already letting them down by not joining the ICJ cases and preventing the occupied territories bill.

we are letting them down by not leading in Europe by boycotting an apartheid state.

We are letting them down with the language we use including saying its unhelped to call Israel apartheid Israel but having no issues referring to Hamas a terrorist and not a resistence movement which is acceptable under international law.

We have taken and said much harder hitting statements about other conflicts.

We cannot wait to follow, we must lead. They are cowards in my opinion.

[Armagh18]

Couple of spot on posts there PHP. Agreed 100%

[Itchy]

EU politics is not the Liveline. Taking down Zionism is a long term project. The opposition and Paddy Cosgrave can take positions but the Government needs to take a snooker approach. Actions have to line up with the next one . It is strategic. Tjis is senior hurling.
 Michael D provides the parameters Tto remind thevEuropeans who we are.  The diplomats do the heavy lifting. At the moment the Germans, the Dutch , VdL ad the Yanks are pro genocide.

"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion " Steve Walt

Those forces have to be built.

Even the most brilliant political strategies must ultimately be measured against their outcomes.


Varadkar is not a coward.Neither is Martin.

Ireland will not let the Palestinians down.

Wrong I'm afraid. Those two are only interested in their next job - in Europe.

[ThomasMullan]

EU politics is not the Liveline. Taking down Zionism is a long term project. The opposition and Paddy Cosgrave can take positions but the Government needs to take a snooker approach. Actions have to line up with the next one . It is strategic. Tjis is senior hurling.
 Michael D provides the parameters Tto remind thevEuropeans who we are.  The diplomats do the heavy lifting. At the moment the Germans, the Dutch , VdL ad the Yanks are pro genocide.

"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion " Steve Walt

Those forces have to be built.

Even the most brilliant political strategies must ultimately be measured against their outcomes.


Varadkar is not a coward.Neither is Martin.

Ireland will not let the Palestinians down.

Balanced sensible comments. Nuance and the reality of what the government is up against and the political environment in which they operate is lost on some of the posters here.

[ThomasMullan]

"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "

The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.

[Armagh18]

"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "

The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.

that's about it.

If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)

[thebigfella]

"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "

The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.

that's about it.

If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)

What is Michelle's and Rishi's stance?

[PadraicHenryPearse]

we are already letting them down by not joining the ICJ cases and preventing the occupied territories bill.

we are letting them down by not leading in Europe by boycotting an apartheid state.

We are letting them down with the language we use including saying its unhelped to call Israel apartheid Israel but having no issues referring to Hamas a terrorist and not a resistence movement which is acceptable under international law.

We have taken and said much harder hitting statements about other conflicts.

We cannot wait to follow, we must lead. They are cowards in my opinion.

EU politics is not the Liveline. Taking down Zionism is a long term project. The opposition and Paddy Cosgrave can take positions but the Government needs to take a snooker approach. Actions have to line up with the next one . It is strategic. Tjis is senior hurling.
 Michael D provides the parameters Tto remind thevEuropeans who we are.  The diplomats do the heavy lifting. At the moment the Germans, the Dutch , VdL ad the Yanks are pro genocide.

"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion " Steve Walt

Those forces have to be built.

Even the most brilliant political strategies must ultimately be measured against their outcomes.


Varadkar is not a coward.Neither is Martin.

Ireland will not let the Palestinians down.

This is optimistic at best and more fanciful and naive imo.

Israeli position publicly is moving further away from any chance of a Palestinian state, at the same time EU/US/UK is also moving the wrong way too, they are sitting by arming Israel while they commit a genocide.

The US recently voted almost unanimously to say anti zionism is anti semitic, for example. How will this shower even get out of the way so there is a chance at some sort of peace.

Playing politics while a genocide is unfolding in my opinion is cowardly, not even referring to it as genocide is cowardly and it was not like Varadker would be the first to call it what it is.

Similarly, Martin got his photoshoot over in Irsrael and despite numerous human rights groups, including the largest in Israel calling it an Apartheid state, he wouldn't use the term as its unhelpful.

Public opinion is ignored worldwide, so any change there unfortunately is unlikely to make much difference.

[Snapchap]

...but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins.

I know I asked you this before when you last showered praise on Micheal Martin for his response, but didnt get an answer so I'll ask again. Is that the same Micheal Martin who had the Israeli Ambassador as a guest of the FF Ard Fheis? And who took part in a PR photoshoot for the Israelis, standing like an obedient little f**king puppet in an IDF bullet proof vest pointing at a tiny hole in a ceiling, while Gaza was being flattened?

[ThomasMullan]

"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "

The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.

that's about it.

If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)

I've said all I have to say about Clare Daly.

Actually I was being sarcastic above and I agree with you. Israel is evil, or rather their government, a large section of their population and their Zionist enablers abroad are evil.

What you also won't find me doing is parroting Israeli propaganda on here, dressing it up as context, oversimplification or nuance, like we see from other posters in response to brutal military invasion, complete destruction of cities and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians. 

[Armagh18]

"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "

The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.

that's about it.

If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)

I've said all I have to say about Clare Daly.

Actually I was being sarcastic above and I agree with you. Israel is evil, or rather their government, a large section of their population and their Zionist enablers abroad are evil.

What you also won't find me doing is parroting Israeli propaganda on here, dressing it up as context, oversimplification or nuance, like we see from other posters in response to brutal military invasion, complete destruction of cities and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians. Is there anyone one here doing that? Be a small minority if so

[ThomasMullan]

"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "

The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.

that's about it.

If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)

I've said all I have to say about Clare Daly.

Actually I was being sarcastic above and I agree with you. Israel is evil, or rather their government, a large section of their population and their Zionist enablers abroad are evil.

What you also won't find me doing is parroting Israeli propaganda on here, dressing it up as context, oversimplification or nuance, like we see from other posters in response to brutal military invasion, complete destruction of cities and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians. Is there anyone one here doing that? Be a small minority if so

Not about Israel,  no.