Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[PadraicHenryPearse]

A senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.

They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. .

So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?

that is not what he posted. There are multiple sources that Israeli killed their own at the kibbutzs. these sources are Israeli sources. We dont know how many. About 50 hostages have been killed in the indiscriminate bombing by Israel, they have the Hannibal directive.

He said Hamas didn't kill 1400. Full stop!

They probably killed more or less, who knows. But being led to believe that another 50 hostages are dead, again who knows how they died, bombs, murdered, I do know they'd still be alive if they'd been left alone.

Did Hamas stay in the Kibbutz with the hostages? Or did they taken them to Gaza?

Then says Israel murdered its own people, as they rather kill them than take them alive.. Stay with me

Then mentioned the music festival, saying, We don't know about the festival either!

If you are struggling to understand what he's implying here then go back to school

why not read what he wrote instead of trying to imply something.

Israeli sources have been clear they fired tanks shells into the kibbutz, fired on their own army bases, killed their own in crossfire. They killed their own previously and even have the hannibal directive...who knows how more they killed.

[Rudi]

A senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.

They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.

So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?

that is not what he posted. There are multiple sources that Israeli killed their own at the kibbutzs. these sources are Israeli sources. We dont know how many. About 50 hostages have been killed in the indiscriminate bombing by Israel, they have the Hannibal directive.

Its totally acceptable for some on this board to completely misrepresent, what another poster states.

[seafoid]

A senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.

They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.

So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?

It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?

I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!

Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies

Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel? 

Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people. 

[bennydorano]

Seafoid, take a break.

[Milltown Row2]

A senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.

They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.

So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?

It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?

I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!

Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies

Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel? 

Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people. 

Yes I can back up that you are full of crap, and have been steadily getting worse for a while now.

I know as much as you do about Israel Palestine and the Middle East.

Also I do know if you haven't an open mind you've a closed one. So, regardless of anyone's points you are closed to them.

But make no mistake, Israel is at fault for years of atrocities land grabbing and persecution. That doesn't mean you can make stuff up

[SHEEDY]

A senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.

They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.

So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?

It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?

I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!

Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies

Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel? 

Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people. 

Yes I can back up that you are full of crap, and have been steadily getting worse for a while now.

I know as much as you do about Israel Palestine and the Middle East.

Also I do know if you haven't an open mind you've a closed one. So, regardless of anyone's points you are closed to them.

But make no mistake, Israel is at fault for years of atrocities land grabbing and persecution. That doesn't mean you can make stuff up

Israel killing some of their own people at the kibbutz has already been widely reported, it's hardly making stuff up.

[imtommygunn]

It's just not stopping. When is anyone going to step in and put an end to this madness 

[marty34]

Israel wants to wipe Gaza out.

They are using the recent attack as an excuse, while the rest of world watches on without care, to destroy Gaza.

As the UN lad say, it can't be taken in isolation. Palestine and it's people have suffered something shocking this past 50 years.

 

[Milltown Row2]

A senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.

They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.

So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?

It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?

I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!

Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies

Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel? 

Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people. 

Yes I can back up that you are full of crap, and have been steadily getting worse for a while now.

I know as much as you do about Israel Palestine and the Middle East.

Also I do know if you haven't an open mind you've a closed one. So, regardless of anyone's points you are closed to them.

But make no mistake, Israel is at fault for years of atrocities land grabbing and persecution. That doesn't mean you can make stuff up

Israel killing some of their own people at the kibbutz has already been widely reported, it's hardly making stuff up.

He said Hamas only killed 800... so the Israelis killed a further 600 people?

[Tony Baloney]

It's just not stopping. When is anyone going to step in and put an end to this madness 

Biden is a moron and a coward. Look at the balls he made of Afghanistan and had no compunction in leaving them to it. Trump had a part to play but sleepy Joe let it happen. They keep saying Israel has a right to defend itself as if killing 10,000 people (minimum) is defending yourself. Israel are Israel and this is expected behaviour- I blame Biden for most of this.

[burdizzo]

Israel wants to wipe Gaza out.

 

Hamas - and pretty much the entire middle east - want to wipe Israel out. I suppose America is Israel's only guarantor, and the only reason Israel can exist at all. The Jews in America (and Europe) have a lot of money and influence. Sadly.
I don't begrudge the Jews their ethno-state. Why, though, do they begrudge it to anyone else?!

[ONeill]

The power of religion. Or the danger of religion. Goes beyond money.

[armaghniac]

The power of religion. Or the danger of religion. Goes beyond money.

religion is not the main point, just as in the 6 counties.

Can these people be accused of being anti Semites
https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1718030480459620604

[Franko]

Watching the limited scenes from Gaza tonight is genuinely heartbreaking

They are basically carpet bombing the place

It looks like an artist's illustration of hell

To think there were stupid bastards arguing a few days ago that the Israelis didn't bomb the hospital

The hospital is nothing to tonight's barrage

Surely at some point in the next few hours some of the main western leaders HAS to shout stop

[seafoid]

A senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.

They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.

So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?

It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?

I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!

Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies

Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel? 

Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people. 

Yes I can back up that you are full of crap, and have been steadily getting worse for a while now.

I know as much as you do about Israel Palestine and the Middle East.

Also I do know if you haven't an open mind you've a closed one. So, regardless of anyone's points you are closed to them.

But make no mistake, Israel is at fault for years of atrocities land grabbing and persecution. That doesn't mean you can make stuff up

Israel killing some of their own people at the kibbutz has already been widely reported, it's hardly making stuff up.

He said Hamas only killed 800... so the Israelis killed a further 600 people?

I did not say that Hamas only killed 800 people. That is a fabrication. It sounds like a porkie pie. I said that Hamas did not kill 1400 people. It's upthread. There is a big difference. There is no breakdown of the death toll between the Kibbutz and the rest.   We do not know how many Israelis were killed by their own soldiers because it's a highly sensitive topic during a war but we do know that it happened. Perhaps it wasn't on UTV live. I'll see if I can have a word with Pamela Ballantyne.

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/

Israel's military received orders to shell Israeli homes and even their own bases as they were overwhelmed by Hamas militants on October 7. How many Israeli citizens said to have been "burned alive" were actually killed by friendly fire?
Several new testimonies by Israeli witnesses to the October 7 Hamas surprise attack on southern Israel adds to growing evidence that the Israeli military killed its own citizens as they fought to neutralize Palestinian gunmen.

Tuval Escapa, a member of the security team for Kibbutz Be'eri, set up a hotline to coordinate between kibbutz residents and the Israeli army. He told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that as desperation began to set in, "the commanders in the field made difficult decisions – including shelling houses on their occupants in order to eliminate the terrorists along with the hostages."

A separate report published in Haaretz noted that the Israeli military was "compelled to request an aerial strike" against its own facility inside the Erez Crossing to Gaza "in order to repulse the terrorists" who had seized control. That base was filled with Israeli Civil Administration officers and soldiers at the time.

These reports indicate that orders came down from the military's high command to attack homes and and other areas inside Israel, even at the cost of many Israeli lives.

An Israeli woman named Yasmin Porat confirmed in an interview with Israel Radio that the military "undoubtedly" killed numerous Israeli noncombatants during gun battles with Hamas militants on October 7. "They eliminated everyone, including the hostages," she stated, referring to Israeli special forces.

As David Sheen and Ali Abunimah reported in Electronic Intifada, Porat described "very, very heavy crossfire" and Israeli tank shelling, which led to many casualties among Israelis.

While being held by the Hamas gunmen, Porat recalled, "They did not abuse us. We were treated very humanely... No one treated us violently."

She added, "The objective was to kidnap us to Gaza, not to murder us."

According to Haaretz, the army was only able to restore control over Be'eri after admittedly "shelling" the homes of Israelis who had been taken captive. "The price was terrible: at least 112 Be'eri residents were killed," the paper chronicled. "Others were kidnapped. Yesterday, 11 days after the massacre, the bodies of a mother and her son were discovered in one of the destroyed houses. It is believed that more bodies are still lying in the rubble."

Much of the shelling in Be'eri was carried out by Israeli tank crews. As a reporter for the Israeli Foreign Ministry-sponsored outlet i24 noted during a visit to Be'eri, "small and quaint homes [were] bombarded or destroyed," and "well-maintained lawns [were] ripped up by the tracks of an armored vehicle, perhaps a tank."

Apache attack helicopters also figured heavily in the Israeli military's response on October 7. Pilots have told Israeli media they scrambled to the battlefield without any intelligence, unable to differentiate between Hamas fighters and Israeli noncombatants, and yet determined to "empty the belly" of their war machines. "I find myself in a dilemma as to what to shoot at, because there are so many of them," one Apache pilot commented.

Video filmed by uniformed Hamas gunmen makes it clear they intentionally shot many Israelis with Kalashnikov rifles on October 7. However, the Israeli government has not been content to rely on verified video evidence. Instead, it continues to push discredited claims of "beheaded babies" while distributing photographs of "bodies burned beyond recognition" to insist that militants sadistically immolated their captives, and even raped some before torching them alive.

The objective behind Tel Aviv's atrocity exhibition is clear: to paint Hamas as "worse than ISIS" while cultivating support for the Israeli army's ongoing bombardment of the Gaza Strip, which has left over 7000 dead, including at least 2500 children at the time of publication. While hundreds of wounded children in Gaza have been treated for what a surgeon described as "fourth degree burns" caused by novel weapons, the Western media's focus remains trained on Israeli citizens supposedly "burned alive" on October 7.

Yet the mounting evidence of friendly fire orders handed down by Israeli army commanders strongly suggests that at least some of the most jarring images of charred Israeli corpses, Israeli homes reduced to rubble and burned out hulks of vehicles presented to Western media were, in fact, the handiwork of tank crews and helicopter pilots blanketing Israeli territory with shells, cannon fire and Hellfire missiles.

Indeed, it appears that on October 7, Israel's military resorted to the same tactics it has employed against civilians in Gaza, driving up the death toll of its own citizens with the indiscriminate use of heavy weapons.