Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[Itchy]

From Jonathan Cook

Let's say it again: The BIGGEST fake news comes from the establishment media. When the stakes are high, it barely bothers to hide its role as mouthpiece for Western propaganda.

This is another Iraqi WMD moment. We are being gaslit. Believe your eyes and ears, and the laws of physics, not the lies being peddled by our leaders and media about last night's missile strike on the Baptist hospital in Gaza:

1. No Palestinian group has a rocket that can hit a hospital, killing hundreds. What they have are glorified fireworks that can cause minor damage and the occasional death or two. If Hamas or Islamic Jihad could cause the kind of damage that happened last night, you would hear about it happening in Tel Aviv or Ashkelon too. You don't because they can't.

2. Israel's apologists (and there are lots of them) are sharing all sorts of videos unrelated to the hospital strike. But the video of the strike itself shows that an incredibly large and powerful weapon is used. Listen to the noise the missile makes just before the hit – that whooshing noise is caused by its phenomenal velocity as it cuts through the air. That is *not* the noise of a falling Palestinian rocket.

If you watch videos being shared of Palestinian rockets being fired, notice how slowly they travel. Almost at a snail's pace. If they fail, they drop at free fall speed, not the near-supersonic speed of the missile that hit the hospital. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the laws of physics.
 
3. Israel's apologists are trying to further muddy the waters by suggesting that either a Palestinian rocket fell, or was intercepted, and the rocket or fragments of it hit a very large ammo dump in the hospital. Let's just accept the racist premise that hundreds of families were quite happy to seek safety next to a huge stash of explosives in the middle of a relentless Israeli bombing campaign. Let's also accept the fantastical idea that a falling glorified firework or fragment of it could penetrate the hospital's strong walls and set off such an explosion. If all this was true, you would still see a series of secondary explosions as the arms were detonated by the initial explosion. You don't because there is only one explosion – from an enormous missile.

4. It's a desperate psyop, so Israel has now released a recording of two Hamas militants conveniently having a chat after the missile strike, discussing whether they or Islamic Jihad did it. This is the same Israel that did not detect months of planning by Hamas that was needed to organise its breakout 10 days ago. But Israel got lucky this time, it seems, and just happened to be listening in when Huey and Louie decided to self-incriminate.

Remember Israel has a whole unit of 'mistaravim',  Israeli Jewish undercover agents trained to pose as Palestinians and secretly operate among Palestinians. Israel produced a highly popular TV series about such people in Gaza called Fauda. You have to be beyond credulous to think that Israel couldn't, and wouldn't, rig up a call like this to fool us, just as it regularly fools Palestinians in Gaza.

Most of the people spreading these lies know they are lies, including the media, and most especially the Middle East and defence correspondents. At least a few, like the BBC's Jeremy Bowen and Jon Donnison, are trying cautiously to suggest it's unlikely a Hamas rocket could cause damage on the scale seen at the Gaza hospital. But it's not unlikely. It's impossible, and they know it. They just don't dare say it.

[Tony Baloney]

Let's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.

[SHEEDY]

As Frankie Boyle said, Israel could say a dragon blew up the hospital and people would believe them.

[johnnycool]

I thought it's was interesting that Israel are blaming Islamic jihad rather than Hamas.

On a separate issue I don't think the Arabs should have cancelled the meetings with Biden even in the circumstances.

The US aren't some neutral arbiter in all this, they're very much involved on the Israeli side.

[north_antrim_hound]

Let's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.

Was thinking that myself, the plight of the Palestinians has always resonated strongly with the Irish for obvious reasons. He should be told to f..k off next time.

[seafoid]

I thought it's was interesting that Israel are blaming Islamic jihad rather than Hamas.

On a separate issue I don't think the Arabs should have cancelled the meetings with Biden even in the circumstances.

The US aren't some neutral arbiter in all this, they're very much involved on the Israeli side.

From a geopolitical point of view American and European support for Israeli sadism is really f**king dangerous in the Global South. Trump already did a lot of damage on top of the Iraq war and the failure of US foreign policy in Libya.
The Americans have bases in places like Turkey and Iraq. What non white people see is a racist system run by privileged white people abusing brown people and full throated American and Euro support. Nobody in Morocco or Indonesia believes that Islamic Jihad bombed the hospital. Israelis can gaslight English speakers but most people  in the world are not fluent English speakers.

Our own history was full of this stuff.  It's still in the music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P40YOU8ggJk

This is a really good take on economic history in Scotland and Ireland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTEKtsmk14&t=80s


Some people may decide to take matters into their own hands.

[Hound]

Ah it'd be a bit naive to think that Biden or any previous US president gave two hoots about ordinary people in the Middle East.

Israel has strategic importance for the US in the region and that determines policy. As Biden has said more than once down through the years; if Israel didn't exist they'd have to invent one.

In saying that, he definitely doesn't like Netanyahu and he has been mentioning innocent Palestinians more than Sunak or Von Der Leyen, so if it did turn out the Israelis took out that hospital, I think his tone would change. And worth noting that while he did say it looks like the 'other team' did it that there were some who believed otherwise so they have more work to do to prove it.

[Armagh18]

From Jonathan Cook

Let's say it again: The BIGGEST fake news comes from the establishment media. When the stakes are high, it barely bothers to hide its role as mouthpiece for Western propaganda.

This is another Iraqi WMD moment. We are being gaslit. Believe your eyes and ears, and the laws of physics, not the lies being peddled by our leaders and media about last night's missile strike on the Baptist hospital in Gaza:

1. No Palestinian group has a rocket that can hit a hospital, killing hundreds. What they have are glorified fireworks that can cause minor damage and the occasional death or two. If Hamas or Islamic Jihad could cause the kind of damage that happened last night, you would hear about it happening in Tel Aviv or Ashkelon too. You don't because they can't.

2. Israel's apologists (and there are lots of them) are sharing all sorts of videos unrelated to the hospital strike. But the video of the strike itself shows that an incredibly large and powerful weapon is used. Listen to the noise the missile makes just before the hit – that whooshing noise is caused by its phenomenal velocity as it cuts through the air. That is *not* the noise of a falling Palestinian rocket.

If you watch videos being shared of Palestinian rockets being fired, notice how slowly they travel. Almost at a snail's pace. If they fail, they drop at free fall speed, not the near-supersonic speed of the missile that hit the hospital. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the laws of physics.
 
3. Israel's apologists are trying to further muddy the waters by suggesting that either a Palestinian rocket fell, or was intercepted, and the rocket or fragments of it hit a very large ammo dump in the hospital. Let's just accept the racist premise that hundreds of families were quite happy to seek safety next to a huge stash of explosives in the middle of a relentless Israeli bombing campaign. Let's also accept the fantastical idea that a falling glorified firework or fragment of it could penetrate the hospital's strong walls and set off such an explosion. If all this was true, you would still see a series of secondary explosions as the arms were detonated by the initial explosion. You don't because there is only one explosion – from an enormous missile.

4. It's a desperate psyop, so Israel has now released a recording of two Hamas militants conveniently having a chat after the missile strike, discussing whether they or Islamic Jihad did it. This is the same Israel that did not detect months of planning by Hamas that was needed to organise its breakout 10 days ago. But Israel got lucky this time, it seems, and just happened to be listening in when Huey and Louie decided to self-incriminate.

Remember Israel has a whole unit of 'mistaravim',  Israeli Jewish undercover agents trained to pose as Palestinians and secretly operate among Palestinians. Israel produced a highly popular TV series about such people in Gaza called Fauda. You have to be beyond credulous to think that Israel couldn't, and wouldn't, rig up a call like this to fool us, just as it regularly fools Palestinians in Gaza.

Most of the people spreading these lies know they are lies, including the media, and most especially the Middle East and defence correspondents. At least a few, like the BBC's Jeremy Bowen and Jon Donnison, are trying cautiously to suggest it's unlikely a Hamas rocket could cause damage on the scale seen at the Gaza hospital. But it's not unlikely. It's impossible, and they know it. They just don't dare say it.

100%

[Snapchap]

As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.

Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".

"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.

[Hound]

As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.

Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".

"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.

Ah I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄

I find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.

The rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.

I honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.

[tonto1888]

As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.

Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".

"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.

Ah I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄

I find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.

The rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.

I honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.

Biden is US president and you dont think he would cover it up?

[Armagh18]

As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.

Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".

"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.

Ah I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄

I find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.

The rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.

I honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.

You must be joking

[Itchy]

As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.

Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".

"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.

Ah I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄

I find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.

The rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.

I honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.

Hound - Biden and US intelligence already know the truth. Everyone does. Looking at it from a selfish perspective from Bidens perspective he is looking to keep his sponsors at home happy, he wants to prevent anything that would escalate into a regional issue. He thinks the best way to do this is to toe the line with Israel and leave his morals aside. Thats how the yanks roll.

[Snapchap]

Ah I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄

Did I say it was?? I assumed you were at least intelligent enough to understand the wider point which is that when an oppressive regime commites a war crime/atrocity, the first thing they will do is lie about it.

I find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.

Firstly, I find it odd that you can listen to an Israeli press confrence and be "so quick" to pronounce that they are being "open and transparent" about what really happened.
Secondly, I've never said Palestinian rockets don't misfire. Of course they do. Any rocket can misfire. The point I made is that the organisation the Israelis are trring to pin his on has never once proven that it has the rocket technology to cause anything even remotely close to this level of devestation. If they did, wouldn't they have used it at some point in the last few decades? Or is it just a crazy coincidence that the very first one they fired not only hit their own hospital but hit it a few hours after the Israelis ordered the hospital to be evacuated?

The rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.

It's been pointed out elsewhere that the IDF routinely use GBU-32 guided bombs which detonate above the ground before a strike and don't cause impact craters. I'm not saying that this is what happened. I'm saying that to listen to an Israeli Press Conference, knowing Israel's track record, and instantly accept that they were being "open and transparent" is sheer stupidity.

I honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.

Why wouldn't he? The Israelis have been denying 2.2m people of food, water and fuel for close to a fortnight - a textbook definition of a war crime according to international law, and he's still standing by their side. This is a man who in 1986 said that "if there were not an Israel, we'd have to invent one" in order to protect US interests in the region. Given that the US has permitted/enabled/funded Israeli aparthied for many years, do you really think they'd change tact over another few hundred palestinians getting blown up in a hospital? They've watched Isreal all week while it blew up UN schools sheltering civilians and not said a word ffs.

[armaghniac]

The point is that the devastation is relatively modest and there weren't actually anything like 500 fatalities, that seems to have been fake news to try and imply a level of devastation that a rocket could not produce.

So perhaps dozens of people were killed and probably the airstrikes since last night have killed at least as many.