Bolt from the blue and Israel looking unprepared for a change, no doubt retribution will be swift & brutal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895
And on and on the spiral goes.
Maybe if they tried making peace and put an end to stealing land.....
Not much talk in the media about the killing, maiming, stealing , destruction that the israeli army and settlers do ...every fckin day
Quote from: Dire Ear on October 07, 2023, 11:55:53 AMNot much talk in the media about the killing, maiming, stealing , destruction that the israeli army and settlers do ...every fckin day
We all know why... Anyway rip to the innocents who'll no doubt die on both sides.
Setting aside the current and tragic conflict the jews always came across as a group who would double down big time on playing the victim card. For example if a politician / public figure said something out of turn / in appropriate which could be deemed racist, homophobic or anti-semetic it seems to be when it is the latter the representatives of this group are all over the media jumping up and down about being so hard done by and how they are such a persecuted group in society. Last time I checked no cops in the states have ever shot a jew in controversial circumstances, African Americans not so fortunate in this regard.
It's going to be a hard sell for Hamas to convince the world they're honourable freedom fighters instead of stone age savages
https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1710564615099129968
Gerry Carrol has created a bit of hole for himself the cretin because this exactly the stuff that will now be thrown back at him
A massive failure of Israeli intelligence. Total clusterfuck
It's a proxy war between Israel and Iran now.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67037895
It is hard to describe just how unprecedented today's developments are.
Not only is this likely to be the worst intelligence failure since the 1973 Yom Kippur war (and the timing is no accident – it's 50 years almost to the day), but rarely, if ever, has Israel lost control of its own towns.
The scenes from Sderot and other communities around the Gaza Strip, with Palestinian gunmen apparently roaming the streets at will, kidnapping and killing civilians, will send the deepest shockwaves throughout Israel.
That, of course, is the point. Hamas has tried numerous tactics in the past, from suicide bombs to tunnels into Israel and even "incendiary kites".
But the Gaza-based militants have never tried anything remotely this audacious before. By their standards, this was an astonishingly sophisticated - and, yes, brutal - act of hybrid warfare, using hundreds of rockets as the prelude to a mass breakout at multiple points along the normally impregnable fence.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hezbollah says Gaza attacks are a 'decisive response' to Israeli 'aggression against holy sites'
Hezbollah announced on Saturday that "the military action that began this morning on behalf of the factions in Gaza is a decisive response to the crimes of the [Israeli] occupation and aggression against holy sites."
According to the militant group's statement, these attacks carry "a clear message to the Arab and Islamic world, and especially to those who strive for a normalization agreement." The announcement also stated that "the organization's leadership is in continuous contact with the leadership of the Palestinian resistance forces inside and outside the Palestinian territories," and that "the parties are constantly assessing the situation.
Quote from: Premier Emperor on October 07, 2023, 01:46:07 PMIt's going to be a hard sell for Hamas to convince the world they're honourable freedom fighters instead of stone age savages
https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1710564615099129968
Israel uses prisoners and corpses as bargaining chips. Hamas are doing the same thing
Israel also has a bank of Palestinian body parts used for plastic surgery in the Israeli army .
Who are the savages?
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2023, 02:24:50 PMQuote from: Premier Emperor on October 07, 2023, 01:46:07 PMIt's going to be a hard sell for Hamas to convince the world they're honourable freedom fighters instead of stone age savages
https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1710564615099129968
Israel uses prisoners and corpses as bargaining chips. Hamas are doing the same thing
Israel also has a bank of Palestinian body parts used for plastic surgery in the Israeli army .
Who are the savages?
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them.
Chemi Shalev@ChemiShalev
3h
Worst day in the history of the State of Israel - bar none
Hateful Apartheid bastards propped up by hypocritical West that whines on about Russia while ignoring this shower of murdering scum and the Nazis of Ukraine.
Quote from: red hander on October 07, 2023, 03:06:45 PMHateful Apartheid bastards propped up by hypocritical West that whines on about Russia while ignoring this shower of murdering scum and the Nazis of Ukraine.
It is not the Ukrainians doing a land grab on the Russians.
The Russian fascist state would be a better comparison with Israel's fascist state.
Quote from: red hander on October 07, 2023, 03:06:45 PMHateful Apartheid bastards propped up by hypocritical West that whines on about Russia while ignoring this shower of murdering scum and the Nazis of Ukraine.
100%
Tal Schneider טל שניידר تال شنايدر
@talschneider
·
33m
Israeli Health Authorities update:
100 killed in huge Hamas assault, 900 injured; many hostages said taken to Gaza;
PM: Israel at war
Fighting is still on in several southern villages whose residents were taken hostages. At least 50 ppl are still hostage in Kibbutz Beeri
Quote from: red hander on October 07, 2023, 03:06:45 PMHateful Apartheid bastards propped up by hypocritical West that whines on about Russia while ignoring this shower of murdering scum and the Nazis of Ukraine.
You got the comparison the wrong way round there.
Quote from: Itchy on October 07, 2023, 02:54:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 07, 2023, 02:24:50 PMQuote from: Premier Emperor on October 07, 2023, 01:46:07 PMIt's going to be a hard sell for Hamas to convince the world they're honourable freedom fighters instead of stone age savages
https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1710564615099129968
Israel uses prisoners and corpses as bargaining chips. Hamas are doing the same thing
Israel also has a bank of Palestinian body parts used for plastic surgery in the Israeli army .
Who are the savages?
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them.
Itchy is ok with women being kidnapped, killed, stripped and paraded on the back of a pick up but draws the line at people criticising women pundits.
Tal Schneider טל שניידר تال شنايدر
@talschneider
·
2m
Israeli Health Authorities update: 150 killed in huge Hamas assault, 1100 injured, about 200 are severely hurt; dozens of hostages taken to Gaza, including women, men, elderly, and young kids.
Quote from: Deerstalker on October 07, 2023, 04:26:43 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 07, 2023, 02:54:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 07, 2023, 02:24:50 PMQuote from: Premier Emperor on October 07, 2023, 01:46:07 PMIt's going to be a hard sell for Hamas to convince the world they're honourable freedom fighters instead of stone age savages
https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1710564615099129968
Israel uses prisoners and corpses as bargaining chips. Hamas are doing the same thing
Israel also has a bank of Palestinian body parts used for plastic surgery in the Israeli army .
Who are the savages?
Israel are the savages, they learned well from the Nazis. Good luck to Hamas but the response will be brutal, indiscriminate and sponsored by the best weapons the west can buy for them.
Itchy is ok with women being kidnapped, killed, stripped and paraded on the back of a pick up but draws the line at people criticising women pundits.
Oh dear, moron alert.
Tal Schneider טל שניידר تال شنايدر
@talschneider
·
25m
Israeli Health Authorities update: 200 killed in huge Hamas assault, 1100 injured, about 200 are severely hurt; dozens of hostages taken to Gaza, including women, men, elderly, and young kids.
Quote from: LC on October 07, 2023, 12:56:46 PMSetting aside the current and tragic conflict the jews always came across as a group who would double down big time on playing the victim card. For example if a politician / public figure said something out of turn / in appropriate which could be deemed racist, homophobic or anti-semetic it seems to be when it is the latter the representatives of this group are all over the media jumping up and down about being so hard done by and how they are such a persecuted group in society. Last time I checked no cops in the states have ever shot a jew in controversial circumstances, African Americans not so fortunate in this regard.
Everyone just ok with this, yeah? f**k me like.
Jewish people in "more attuned to persecution of Jews" shocker. Gerry Adams is some f**king sc**bag like. You always hear him banging on about the poor Fenians and poor Irish, but Christ he doesn't give too much of a f**k about the Rohingya, does he?!
Are people really this f**king dumb? Or do they expect others to be?
I've always been very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause
But some deeply disturbing troubling videos on twitter
Makes you wonder...
People, as humans, will only take so much before they decide enough is enough.
Surprising thing is that Israel didn't know this was coming. There will be huge questions over their security services and intelligent services.
Israelis are paranoid . They are still processing the trauma from WW2. Think how long the trauma from the Famine lasted in Ireland.
Quote from: God14 on October 07, 2023, 07:26:42 PMI've always been very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause
But some deeply disturbing troubling videos on twitter
Makes you wonder...
A desperate people resorting to desperate measures, their suffering completely ignored by West. Do you know how many Palestinian children have been murdered by the IDF this year alone, not one of them reported by the western media.
Quote from: God14 on October 07, 2023, 07:26:42 PMI've always been very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause
But some deeply disturbing troubling videos on twitter
Makes you wonder...
Would it be fair for Northern catholics to be judged on the basis of what the INLA did ?
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2023, 07:18:19 PMQuote from: LC on October 07, 2023, 12:56:46 PMSetting aside the current and tragic conflict the jews always came across as a group who would double down big time on playing the victim card. For example if a politician / public figure said something out of turn / in appropriate which could be deemed racist, homophobic or anti-semetic it seems to be when it is the latter the representatives of this group are all over the media jumping up and down about being so hard done by and how they are such a persecuted group in society. Last time I checked no cops in the states have ever shot a jew in controversial circumstances, African Americans not so fortunate in this regard.
Everyone just ok with this, yeah? f**k me like.
Jewish people in "more attuned to persecution of Jews" shocker. Gerry Adams is some f**king sc**bag like. You always hear him banging on about the poor Fenians and poor Irish, but Christ he doesn't give too much of a f**k about the Rohingya, does he?!
Are people really this f**king dumb? Or do they expect others to be?
I don't agree with any generalisation of "the Jews" as it's a religion made of all sort of people from all over. Now the Israelis on the other hand are a brutal, racist, murderous regime and they are reaping what they sowed today. I don't know what the hell you are on about regarding Gerry Adams mind you
Quote from: Itchy on October 07, 2023, 08:57:57 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 07, 2023, 07:18:19 PMQuote from: LC on October 07, 2023, 12:56:46 PMSetting aside the current and tragic conflict the jews always came across as a group who would double down big time on playing the victim card. For example if a politician / public figure said something out of turn / in appropriate which could be deemed racist, homophobic or anti-semetic it seems to be when it is the latter the representatives of this group are all over the media jumping up and down about being so hard done by and how they are such a persecuted group in society. Last time I checked no cops in the states have ever shot a jew in controversial circumstances, African Americans not so fortunate in this regard.
Everyone just ok with this, yeah? f**k me like.
Jewish people in "more attuned to persecution of Jews" shocker. Gerry Adams is some f**king sc**bag like. You always hear him banging on about the poor Fenians and poor Irish, but Christ he doesn't give too much of a f**k about the Rohingya, does he?!
Are people really this f**king dumb? Or do they expect others to be?
I don't agree with any generalisation of "the Jews" as it's a religion made of all sort of people from all over. Now the Israelis on the other hand are a brutal, racist, murderous regime and they are reaping what they sowed today. I don't know what the hell you are on about regarding Gerry Adams mind you
Obviously on the drink. But hard to say judging by some of his 'sober' contributions.
Quote from: Itchy on October 07, 2023, 08:57:57 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 07, 2023, 07:18:19 PMQuote from: LC on October 07, 2023, 12:56:46 PMSetting aside the current and tragic conflict the jews always came across as a group who would double down big time on playing the victim card. For example if a politician / public figure said something out of turn / in appropriate which could be deemed racist, homophobic or anti-semetic it seems to be when it is the latter the representatives of this group are all over the media jumping up and down about being so hard done by and how they are such a persecuted group in society. Last time I checked no cops in the states have ever shot a jew in controversial circumstances, African Americans not so fortunate in this regard.
Everyone just ok with this, yeah? f**k me like.
Jewish people in "more attuned to persecution of Jews" shocker. Gerry Adams is some f**king sc**bag like. You always hear him banging on about the poor Fenians and poor Irish, but Christ he doesn't give too much of a f**k about the Rohingya, does he?!
Are people really this f**king dumb? Or do they expect others to be?
I don't agree with any generalisation of "the Jews" as it's a religion made of all sort of people from all over. Now the Israelis on the other hand are a brutal, racist, murderous regime and they are reaping what they sowed today. I don't know what the hell you are on about regarding Gerry Adams mind you
It's a hyperbolic comparison for satirical effect of the faux outrage that Jewish people are more aware of and concerned about issues that affect primarily Jewish people.
Quote from: gallsman on October 07, 2023, 09:23:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 07, 2023, 08:57:57 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 07, 2023, 07:18:19 PMQuote from: LC on October 07, 2023, 12:56:46 PMSetting aside the current and tragic conflict the jews always came across as a group who would double down big time on playing the victim card. For example if a politician / public figure said something out of turn / in appropriate which could be deemed racist, homophobic or anti-semetic it seems to be when it is the latter the representatives of this group are all over the media jumping up and down about being so hard done by and how they are such a persecuted group in society. Last time I checked no cops in the states have ever shot a jew in controversial circumstances, African Americans not so fortunate in this regard.
Everyone just ok with this, yeah? f**k me like.
Jewish people in "more attuned to persecution of Jews" shocker. Gerry Adams is some f**king sc**bag like. You always hear him banging on about the poor Fenians and poor Irish, but Christ he doesn't give too much of a f**k about the Rohingya, does he?!
Are people really this f**king dumb? Or do they expect others to be?
I don't agree with any generalisation of "the Jews" as it's a religion made of all sort of people from all over. Now the Israelis on the other hand are a brutal, racist, murderous regime and they are reaping what they sowed today. I don't know what the hell you are on about regarding Gerry Adams mind you
It's a hyperbolic comparison for satirical effect of the faux outrage that Jewish people are more aware of and concerned about issues that affect primarily Jewish people.
All minorities are
Hyperbole. Satire. ;D
Quote from: red hander on October 07, 2023, 09:54:25 PMHyperbole. Satire. ;D
Sorry, forgot to include the dictionary.com link for you.
https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1710614038042812629
Lord John Kilclooney @KilclooneyJohn
I can understand the criticism of Hamas by both Sunak and the Labour Leader. However were they also critical of the Israeli illegal settlements within Palestine? Fair is fair!!
Quote from: dec on October 07, 2023, 10:53:43 PMhttps://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1710614038042812629
Lord John Kilclooney @KilclooneyJohn
I can understand the criticism of Hamas by both Sunak and the Labour Leader. However were they also critical of the Israeli illegal settlements within Palestine? Fair is fair!!
Me and John Taylor agree on something.. 😮
Ms van der Leyen disappointingly spouting the Israeli line today.
is there some rumours russia are behind this.
The Saudis (that bastion of human rights, which beheads its internal opponents, no matter how benign their criticism, and murders journalists who call them out, yet are given a byeball by the West) were about to do a peace deal with Apartheid Israel. That's behind this. Oh,apart from years of oppression and murder by the Israelis without sanction.
Quote from: Eire90 on October 07, 2023, 11:32:29 PMis there some rumours russia are behind this.
It's Iran.
https://twitter.com/talschneider/status/1710864693558936045
Horrific
We don't have official number of people abducted yet, but we are talking about dozens, more than dozens. Hundreds of people still missing. Families going frantic
There are thousands of Palestinian kids in Israeli prisons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8szNPgrEs
Her name was Shani Louk.
I cannot share the photos or videos. The young lady seen bloody and disheveled, who was forced into a truck by Hamas, was tortured and murdered, with her legs and arms broken, and her naked body was paraded through the streets while men cheered and spit on her.
Shani was a 30-year-old Jewish artist from Germany visiting Israel for a music festival.
The evil committed against her, and against many other women and girls in Israel this weekend, is unfathomable.
Let us remember her as she was: a beautiful, artistic, free-spirit who loved travel, culture, and music.
Let us never forget the evil of Hamas.
Rest in peace, Shani Louk.
I am so terribly sorry.
Quote from: dec on October 07, 2023, 10:53:43 PMhttps://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1710614038042812629
Lord John Kilclooney @KilclooneyJohn
I can understand the criticism of Hamas by both Sunak and the Labour Leader. However were they also critical of the Israeli illegal settlements within Palestine? Fair is fair!!
This and telling some English lord he has no right over land in Ireland, what is happening with kilclooney this week? :o
Quote from: Brendan on October 08, 2023, 08:58:10 AMQuote from: dec on October 07, 2023, 10:53:43 PMhttps://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1710614038042812629
Lord John Kilclooney @KilclooneyJohn
I can understand the criticism of Hamas by both Sunak and the Labour Leader. However were they also critical of the Israeli illegal settlements within Palestine? Fair is fair!!
This and telling some English lord he has no right over land in Ireland, what is happening with kilclooney this week? :o
I read both his tweets over and over to see if I was missing the usual bigoted angle. Maybe he thinks its satire
Quote from: marty34 on October 07, 2023, 07:37:44 PMPeople, as humans, will only take so much before they decide enough is enough.
Surprising thing is that Israel didn't know this was coming. There will be huge questions over their security services and intelligent services.
I don't believe for a second that the most sophisticated intelligence setup in the world did not know this was coming. Such was the scale of the attack (7000+ rockets fired?), they had to have known. So why let it happen? Israel now have the excuse and widespread backing to wipe any semblance of Palestine off the map ... and they will.
We're always accustomed to supporting the underdog, the oppressed, the Palestinians ... the barbaric scenes being committed on behalf of the Palestinian people does nothing to help their cause. As always, it's the innocent on both sides who will pay the price.
Quote from: balladmaker on October 08, 2023, 09:28:05 AMQuote from: marty34 on October 07, 2023, 07:37:44 PMPeople, as humans, will only take so much before they decide enough is enough.
Surprising thing is that Israel didn't know this was coming. There will be huge questions over their security services and intelligent services.
I don't believe for a second that the most sophisticated intelligence setup in the world did not know this was coming. Such was the scale of the attack (7000+ rockets fired?), they had to have known. So why let it happen? Israel now have the excuse and widespread backing to wipe any semblance of Palestine off the map ... and they will.
We're always accustomed to supporting the underdog, the oppressed, the Palestinians ... the barbaric scenes being committed on behalf of the Palestinian people does nothing to help their cause. As always, it's the innocent on both sides who will pay the price.
It's like this I suppose, you keep a bear in a cage, beat it, starve it, torture it. Then it gets out. This is what happens. Israel and their western friends have created the monster that attacks it.
Have Hamas went too far? Will SF be under pressure to disassociate themselves from it? Kidnapping children is not a good look.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 08, 2023, 10:01:29 AMHave Hamas went too far? Will SF be under pressure to disassociate themselves from it? Kidnapping children is not a good look.
Unless you're Israel
Quote from: balladmaker on October 08, 2023, 09:28:05 AMQuote from: marty34 on October 07, 2023, 07:37:44 PMPeople, as humans, will only take so much before they decide enough is enough.
Surprising thing is that Israel didn't know this was coming. There will be huge questions over their security services and intelligent services.
I don't believe for a second that the most sophisticated intelligence setup in the world did not know this was coming. Such was the scale of the attack (7000+ rockets fired?), they had to have known. So why let it happen? Israel now have the excuse and widespread backing to wipe any semblance of Palestine off the map ... and they will.
We're always accustomed to supporting the underdog, the oppressed, the Palestinians ... the barbaric scenes being committed on behalf of the Palestinian people does nothing to help their cause. As always, it's the innocent on both sides who will pay the price.
Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethic cleaning and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israeli actions and their pathetic response to yesterday's heroic resistance by Palestinans.
this is Israel
https://twitter.com/One_Dawah/status/1710765784765485446?t=IASChZq_3pFfpYhaUz93Ig&s=19
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 10:19:19 AMQuote from: balladmaker on October 08, 2023, 09:28:05 AMQuote from: marty34 on October 07, 2023, 07:37:44 PMPeople, as humans, will only take so much before they decide enough is enough.
Surprising thing is that Israel didn't know this was coming. There will be huge questions over their security services and intelligent services.
I don't believe for a second that the most sophisticated intelligence setup in the world did not know this was coming. Such was the scale of the attack (7000+ rockets fired?), they had to have known. So why let it happen? Israel now have the excuse and widespread backing to wipe any semblance of Palestine off the map ... and they will.
We're always accustomed to supporting the underdog, the oppressed, the Palestinians ... the barbaric scenes being committed on behalf of the Palestinian people does nothing to help their cause. As always, it's the innocent on both sides who will pay the price.
Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethic cleaning and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israeli actions and their pathetic response to yesterday's heroic resistance by Palestinans.
this is Israel
https://twitter.com/One_Dawah/status/1710765784765485446?t=IASChZq_3pFfpYhaUz93Ig&s=19
The people in Gaza are desperate but there was nothing heroic about it. It was medieval and only turned more people against them.
It was most certainly heroic, the occupied rising up against their occupier, an occupier armed to the teeth and who cages 2m people in Gaza.. a blow to apartheid Israel and great victory for Palestinans.
Who are they turning against them, the people who turned a blind eye and stayed silent to apartheid crimes for 75 years...
Dragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
A line was crossed. Netanyahu who has a similar outlook on Democracy as Trump will use it for all it is worth domestically & internationally. Iran who have their tentacles in many proxy wars are going to get a big touch here as well in the coming weeks/ months, possibly enough to escalate this situation into a full on regional war.
See something on Twitter there about an Egyptian police officer opening fire on Israeli tourists in Alexandria. That can't be good for calming this situation (assuming it's legit).
Quote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Israel has thousands of Palestiniqn kids in its prisons. These are used as pawns to extract concessions from the Palestinians. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Looking at the kidnapppings without understanding the context leads to the wrong conclusions.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me
Quote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
total bullshit, Israel bares fully responsible for everything that happens. Motorbikes and pickups probably better then the MSF ambulance targeted and destroyed by Israel yesterday, Gaza is not provided the funds from the west to have the best transport available... There are numerous clips online of the settlers being treated very humanely. these settlers who occupy the raised villages of ethically cleanse in the nakba and since serve in the IDF and actively participate in Israeli apartheid regime.
if you only support their struggle when Palestinans are being subservient and being murdered then I doubt they'd think they need your support. No conflict , none is without acts that in the normal course of conflict are unsavoury.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 10:35:14 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 10:19:19 AMQuote from: balladmaker on October 08, 2023, 09:28:05 AMQuote from: marty34 on October 07, 2023, 07:37:44 PMPeople, as humans, will only take so much before they decide enough is enough.
Surprising thing is that Israel didn't know this was coming. There will be huge questions over their security services and intelligent services.
I don't believe for a second that the most sophisticated intelligence setup in the world did not know this was coming. Such was the scale of the attack (7000+ rockets fired?), they had to have known. So why let it happen? Israel now have the excuse and widespread backing to wipe any semblance of Palestine off the map ... and they will.
We're always accustomed to supporting the underdog, the oppressed, the Palestinians ... the barbaric scenes being committed on behalf of the Palestinian people does nothing to help their cause. As always, it's the innocent on both sides who will pay the price.
Barbaric is 75 years of occupation, ethic cleaning and apartheid. Barbaric is the silence of western leaders to Israeli actions and their pathetic response to yesterday's heroic resistance by Palestinans.
this is Israel
https://twitter.com/One_Dawah/status/1710765784765485446?t=IASChZq_3pFfpYhaUz93Ig&s=19
The people in Gaza are desperate but there was nothing heroic about it. It was medieval and only turned more people against them.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Israel is medieval
Judaism is in such a hole
Skin bank
https://twitter.com/Anna_AnninaEl/status/1702765230089032016
Female soldiers testimony
https://mobile.twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1634650035706302464
Shooting for sport
https://mobile.twitter.com/OnlinePalEng/status/1629521558518771712
May your village be burned. Beitar
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JS_ALvW40yI
Shooting children
https://twitter.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1676576618188353539
Israelis need to understand what it feels like to be powerless. There is no security for them until the occupation ends.
Was Kingsmill heroic? Mountbatten?
Moronic stuff."What's good for the goose is good for the gander". What f**king age are you, you absolute child. Once you adopt that attitude, any sense of a moral high ground is immediately conceded.
Red Hand, just so you know, that's a "rhetorical" question, doesn't need an answer. Just to be clear in case you confuse a narrative technique for pretentiousness again.
Quote from: Deerstalker on October 08, 2023, 11:58:22 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me
Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 12:38:16 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 08, 2023, 11:58:22 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me
Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.
Find many people here disputing that, do you?
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:26:57 PMWas Kingsmill heroic? Mountbatten?
Moronic stuff."What's good for the goose is good for the gander". What f**king age are you, you absolute child. Once you adopt that attitude, any sense of a moral high ground is immediately conceded.
Red Hand, just so you know, that's a "rhetorical" question, doesn't need an answer. Just to be clear in case you confuse a narrative technique for pretentiousness again.
The occupation will only stop when the cost to Israelis is too high. That is what ended the war in the North.
In the North during the war the rules were established early on. It's the same in any war.
Israel sets the rules. Women and children are targeted, kidnapped and killed according to need.
Palestinians are not going to invite them in for tea.
There was a lady on CNN moaning that the Palestinians don't follow international law. Neither does Israel.
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:47:38 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 12:38:16 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 08, 2023, 11:58:22 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me
Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.
Find many people here disputing that, do you?
no they justed accepted 75 years of it, and trot out moral high ground arguments... conflicts/wars are a failure of the international communities (generally) and in this case its unwillingness to address israel and Israelis apartheid and murdering regimes. Israel bares all responsible for the reactions of the palestinans to resist and free themselves from their occupiers.
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:47:38 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 12:38:16 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 08, 2023, 11:58:22 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me
Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.
Find many people here disputing that, do you?
Yeh there's a lot of "that's terrible" people who think it's wrong for the oppressed to resist. But the "that's terrible" brigade do f**k all and are mostly useless gombeens in my opinion.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 12:52:46 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:47:38 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 12:38:16 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 08, 2023, 11:58:22 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me
Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.
Find many people here disputing that, do you?
no they justed accepted 75 years of it, and trot out moral high ground arguments... conflicts/wars are a failure of the international communities (generally) and in this case its unwillingness to address israel and Israelis apartheid and murdering regimes. Israel bares all responsible for the reactions of the palestinans to resist and free themselves from their occupiers.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-08/ty-article/.premium/a-failure-of-all-systems-with-political-shock-waves-like-73/0000018b-0c06-dae3-a1cb-bd0f3be90000
The failure of Israel's intelligence and poor preparedness weren't the only problems – it seems that Israel's operational defensive conception in Gaza has shattered
The closest Irish comparison might be 1798
You think anyone on the board is 75 years old? Or have you just lost the run of yourself and are ranting in general and are incapable of following the structure of the ongoing debate.
When you argue that "Israel bares (sic) all responsibility", have you considered what exactly you're referring to? The government? The entire state? Individual citizens. Do murdered/kidnapped women and children bear responsibility for it simply by being Israeli? An inability to condemn atrocity, regardless of origin doesn't weaken an argument. It doesn't mean you're comparing one side with the other, or "both sides-ing" things. Hence my Kingsmill example. It was wrong. It shouldn't have happened. There was no justification for it whatsoever.
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 12:59:05 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:47:38 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 12:38:16 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 08, 2023, 11:58:22 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me
Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.
Find many people here disputing that, do you?
Yeh there's a lot of "that's terrible" people who think it's wrong for the oppressed to resist. But the "that's terrible" brigade do f**k all and are mostly useless gombeens in my opinion.
Out leading the intifada yourself, are you?
Sure you don't need to worry about the Palestinians in the long run. Gerry Carroll and a few similar, to use your word, gombeens can fire up a few supportive tweets and fix the whole thing.
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 01:07:05 PMYou think anyone on the board is 75 years old? Or have you just lost the run of yourself and are ranting in general and are incapable of following the structure of the ongoing debate.
When you argue that "Israel bares (sic) all responsibility", have you considered what exactly you're referring to? The government? The entire state? Individual citizens. Do murdered/kidnapped women and children bear responsibility for it simply by being Israeli? An inability to condemn atrocity, regardless of origin doesn't weaken an argument. It doesn't mean you're comparing one side with the other, or "both sides-ing" things. Hence my Kingsmill example. It was wrong. It shouldn't have happened. There was no justification for it whatsoever.
you don't have to be 75 years old to condemn 75 years of ethic cleanings you condescending dope.. maybe you need some help with comprehension.
I am not going to get bogged down in what Israeli actually means to me (but its not a throw away comment) its a distraction to avoid dealing with what Israel and its supporters do.
there is an inability to see where atrocities originate from some.
as I said in all conflicts there are unsavory outcomes, awful inhumane outcomes this is the unfortunate reality but I won't condemn an occupied people resisting their occupier ( that does not mean I support all individual actions). no conflict is without these events.
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 01:07:05 PMYou think anyone on the board is 75 years old? Or have you just lost the run of yourself and are ranting in general and are incapable of following the structure of the ongoing debate.
When you argue that "Israel bares (sic) all responsibility", have you considered what exactly you're referring to? The government? The entire state? Individual citizens. Do murdered/kidnapped women and children bear responsibility for it simply by being Israeli? An inability to condemn atrocity, regardless of origin doesn't weaken an argument. It doesn't mean you're comparing one side with the other, or "both sides-ing" things. Hence my Kingsmill example. It was wrong. It shouldn't have happened. There was no justification for it whatsoever.
You can't compare something in the EU to the Middle East. Jesus Christ
The Palestinians are treated as Untermenschen by Israel. Israel has weaknesses which were exposed yesterday.
Israel is not going to stop the occupation voluntarily any more than RUC officers with their juicy overtime were going to stop the war in the North.
Hegemony is always challenged. That is the way of the world.
Think you broke your record for the time it took you to contradict yourself in that post. Congrats.
Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian
@manniefabian
·
1h
Channel 13 news puts the death toll in Israel from the Hamas attack at 600
That never happened in the North, no matter how bad things got .
And as for your "you can't compare" nonsense, of course you can. Murder of innocents is murder of innocents wherever you are.
The fact you, ironically given your use of "untermenschen", have proved time and time again don't value an Israeli life should tell anyone who is somehow yet to figure it out just what a despicable cretin you are. And a boring bastard to boot. Maybe you can discuss Scarlett Johansson's menstrual activities again?
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:26:57 PMWas Kingsmill heroic? Mountbatten?
Moronic stuff."What's good for the goose is good for the gander". What f**king age are you, you absolute child. Once you adopt that attitude, any sense of a moral high ground is immediately conceded.
Red Hand, just so you know, that's a "rhetorical" question, doesn't need an answer. Just to be clear in case you confuse a narrative technique for pretentiousness again.
Dunno why you're bringing a notorious royal paedo who got his kicks out of dressing little boys up as little girls and raping them into it. And it's not Red Hand (sic).
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 01:44:38 PMAnd as for your "you can't compare" nonsense, of course you can. Murder of innocents is murder of innocents wherever you are.
The fact you, ironically given your use of "untermenschen", have proved time and time again don't value an Israeli life should tell anyone who is somehow yet to figure it out just what a despicable cretin you are. And a boring bastard to boot. Maybe you can discuss Scarlett Johansson's menstrual activities again?
You can't compare the scale of the loss of life or the systematic cruelty.
If Israel had been running the North you would have been born in an internment centre and you wouldn't have any hospitals and food would be severely restricted.
You know SFA about the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Murder of innocents is abhorrent but Israel bombs the shit out of Gaza every 2 years and murders Palestinian civilians indiscriminately in the process. It's called mowing the lawn in Hebrew. Is that acceptable?
There is no point in talking to Palestinians about murdering civilians when the the death toll ratio is 20:1
Hamas want Palestinians to be able to live in dignity. Israel does not want that. That is how apartheid works. It was like that in Ireland for centuries.
Israel will eventually be forced to come to its senses but until it does a lot of people will die pointlessly.
actually murder of innocence in Palestine by Israel is tolerated and accepted by Israelis and the int community time and time again so the reaction is very different. Its not even referred to as murder, palestinians just magically die, no context.
the outcome of occupying and oppressing people is always going to be a violent outburst, if the int community and Israel wanted a different outcome it had 75 years to correct the injustice of the nakba.
https://bdsmovement.net/news/on-violence-clashes-between-palestinians-and-apartheid-israel
Most mainstream media outlets are parroting apartheid Israel's propaganda morally equating the violence of the nuclear-powered oppressor with the resistance of the oppressed. In a typically colonial inversion of the truth, they whitewash the violence of apartheid Israel as "violent clashes" between the "two sides."
Here are 3 key points to remember in your reporting or when refuting this myth:
As Brazilian educator and philosopher Paulo Freire says,
"With the establishment of a relationship of oppression, violence has already begun. Never in history has violence been initiated by the oppressed. How could they be the initiators, if they themselves are the result of violence? ... There would be no oppressed had there been no prior situation of violence to establish their subjugation. Violence is initiated by those who oppress, who exploit, who fail to recognize others as persons—not by those who are oppressed, exploited, and unrecognized."
Since oppression is the root cause of violence, to end all violence -- that of the oppressor and that of the oppressed -- we must act to end oppression. Exposing and ending complicity in Israel's regime of apartheid, settler-colonialism and military occupation are the most ethical and strategic forms of intervention to end oppression and violence.
Those, like the U.S. administration and the EU, who are not just silent in the face of Israeli apartheid oppression, but are deeply implicated in enabling it through trade, military-security cooperation, and shielding it from accountability, have no moral standing to lecture the oppressed Palestinians on our resistance to oppression. They are partners in crime, pure and simple.
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 01:09:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 12:59:05 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:47:38 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 12:38:16 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 08, 2023, 11:58:22 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:16:58 AMDragging unarmed women and children away on the back of motorbikes and pickups is heroic? Two wrongs never make a right. Israel's treatment of civilians has been horrendous but there's absolutely no way yesterday was the right response, on so many levels.
Yeah shooting dead Israeli pensioners at a bus stop isn't heroic, but that's just me
Neither is shooting dead a father and son cowering for shelter at a street corner. Neither is driving over foreign journalists. Neither is knocking people's houses down on top of them. But that's just me.
Find many people here disputing that, do you?
Yeh there's a lot of "that's terrible" people who think it's wrong for the oppressed to resist. But the "that's terrible" brigade do f**k all and are mostly useless gombeens in my opinion.
Out leading the intifada yourself, are you?
Sure you don't need to worry about the Palestinians in the long run. Gerry Carroll and a few similar, to use your word, gombeens can fire up a few supportive tweets and fix the whole thing.
And what do heroes like you do, go around condemning making sure to be even handed in your condemning. Then lecture others on same. Is that it?
I'm not the one complaining about brigades of people doing f**k all. If you don't fancy sending a few tweets like Gerry, I guess you could just copy and paste a load of them like seafood. Maybe shout "¡no pasarán!" a few times.
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 02:50:24 PMI'm not the one complaining about brigades of people doing f**k all. If you don't fancy sending a few tweets like Gerry, I guess you could just copy and paste a load of them like seafood. Maybe shout "¡no pasarán!" a few times.
So that's nothing then. Thanks for clarifying
On a lighter note
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/robbie-keane-forced-to-shelter-in-panic-room-and-flee-israel-after-hamas-attack-reports/a2120842804.html
I hear it was always his dream as a child in Tallaght to have a panic room
Some of you lads need catch a grip with some of the comments here, both sides, just like in the North there no justification for killing women and children both ways, half u lads trying to justify this action, the counteraction, the long term background, It's as bad as the tit for tat that happened here in the 70's-90's be it alot lower scale compared to this cluster f**k.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 08, 2023, 04:56:50 PMSome of you lads need catch a grip with some of the comments here, both sides, just like in the North there no justification for killing women and children both ways, half u lads trying to jusifty this action, the counteraction, the long term background, It's as bad as the tit for tat that happened here in the 70's-90's be it alot lower scale compared to this cluster f**k.
Tell us what should Palestinians do then. I'm all ears.
attack soldiers and police and politicians you dont attack civilians
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 05:00:02 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 08, 2023, 04:56:50 PMSome of you lads need catch a grip with some of the comments here, both sides, just like in the North there no justification for killing women and children both ways, half u lads trying to jusifty this action, the counteraction, the long term background, It's as bad as the tit for tat that happened here in the 70's-90's be it alot lower scale compared to this cluster f**k.
Tell us what should Palestinians do then. I'm all ears.
Sure, they could just all apply for asylum in Ireland. Would be a great bit of cultural enrichment for us. Or, they just welcome the Israelis with open arms, accept their lands being over-run, and learn to live with it. Who do they think they are, wanting their own land to themselves to live by their own values? Humpf.
if sinn fein get in would they let all palestenians into ireland
Between 2008 and 2020 according to the UN,
Israel killed 5590 Palestinian men, women and children
Palestinians killed 250 Israelis
Israel thought it could guarantee security for its people and build a risk free occupation
Yesterday 600 Israelis were killed in one day. Israeli deterrence is over.
Quote from: Eire90 on October 08, 2023, 05:36:00 PMif sinn fein get in would they let all palestenians into ireland
Yup. The great "Brits out, everyone else in" cod.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 10:46:03 AMIt was most certainly heroic, the occupied rising up against their occupier, an occupier armed to the teeth and who cages 2m people in Gaza.. a blow to apartheid Israel and great victory for Palestinans.
Who are they turning against them, the people who turned a blind eye and stayed silent to apartheid crimes for 75 years...
Well said
Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian
@manniefabian
·
6m
Death toll from Hamas's terrorist attack on Israel rises to 700 per Channel 12 news. More than 2,000 wounded.
Imagine all the funerals . Imagine all the people who thought they were safe.
a prominent irish YouTuber has said did sinn fein know about the attack before it happen should mossad now go after sinn fein.
I see the racists have arrived
Quote from: Itchy on October 08, 2023, 06:10:34 PMI see the racists have arrived
Ha ha! Oh, yes - what a riposte!
america sending in naval ships and missiles
Quote from: Eire90 on October 08, 2023, 06:32:14 PMamerica sending in naval ships and missiles
Good man, you can sit in front of your tv now and watch Fox news and pull the wire of yourself. Have a party and invite Burdizzo over to join in.
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:26:57 PMWas Kingsmill heroic? Mountbatten?
Moronic stuff."What's good for the goose is good for the gander". What f**king age are you, you absolute child. Once you adopt that attitude, any sense of a moral high ground is immediately conceded.
Red Hand, just so you know, that's a "rhetorical" question, doesn't need an answer. Just to be clear in case you confuse a narrative technique for pretentiousness again.
You don't understand power either. It's not about the moral high ground. It's about understanding what is going on.
Israeli deterrence is fucked.
There is no security under apartheid.
It is possible to fully support the plight of the Palestine people, and condemn the atrocities on all sides. That's an opinion.
Standing with a machine gun abducting old women and young children by any measure is not heroic, it just isn't. That's a fact.
There is absolutely a difference between oppressor and the oppressed. The Palestinians have been brutalised and driven to desperation. The Israeli have chosen to brutalise. But f**king wise up suggesting it's heroic to abduct or murder unarmed civilians. Palestinians have been heroic in so many ways, but not that one.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 08:57:27 PMIt is possible to fully support the plight of the Palestine people, and condemn the atrocities on all sides. That's an opinion.
Standing with a machine gun abducting old women and young children by any measure is not heroic, it just isn't. That's a fact.
There is absolutely a difference between oppressor and the oppressed. The Palestinians have been brutalised and driven to desperation. The Israeli have chosen to brutalise. But f**king wise up suggesting it's heroic to abduct or murder unarmed civilians. Palestinians have been heroic in so many ways, but not that one.
It's also possible to call the Palestinian resistence heroic and understand the horrible realities of conflict/war and understand who bares the responsibility for it.
There should be no requirement for Palestinians to rise up against their oppressor, no requirement for them to take from the Israeli play book of abducting or murdering civilians but Israeli has created this reality.
and if you feel the need to question someone, try ursela von der leyen on twitter who repeats the genocidal call of 'Israel has the right to defend itself' and 'stands with Israel'. i repeat the Palestinian resistence is heroic and I stand with Palestine. Dammi falastini 🇵🇸
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:26:57 PMWas Kingsmill heroic? Mountbatten?
Moronic stuff."What's good for the goose is good for the gander". What f**king age are you, you absolute child. Once you adopt that attitude, any sense of a moral high ground is immediately conceded.
Red Hand, just so you know, that's a "rhetorical" question, doesn't need an answer. Just to be clear in case you confuse a narrative technique for pretentiousness again.
I dont know if you are on about me but I have no idea what you are talking about, think you have mistaken me for someone else? I havent went near this all day and certainly didnt say anything like that.
Quote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:26:57 PMWas Kingsmill heroic? Mountbatten?
Moronic stuff."What's good for the goose is good for the gander". What f**king age are you, you absolute child. Once you adopt that attitude, any sense of a moral high ground is immediately conceded.
Red Hand, just so you know, that's a "rhetorical" question, doesn't need an answer. Just to be clear in case you confuse a narrative technique for pretentiousness again.
Kingsmill was awful, but again if you've any understanding of what was happening you'll know why it happened and why it had to be done. Doubt you'll find too many pitying the pedo Mountbatten...
Quote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 08:57:27 PMIt is possible to fully support the plight of the Palestine people, and condemn the atrocities on all sides. That's an opinion.
Standing with a machine gun abducting old women and young children by any measure is not heroic, it just isn't. That's a fact.
There is absolutely a difference between oppressor and the oppressed. The Palestinians have been brutalised and driven to desperation. The Israeli have chosen to brutalise. But f**king wise up suggesting it's heroic to abduct or murder unarmed civilians. Palestinians have been heroic in so many ways, but not that one.
Absolutely.
Palestine is a profoundly depressing situation. You have all sorts in the US and places like Iran stirring trouble and the Palestinians come under the hammer. Yes, the Isrealis are bullying the Palestinians, but this comes against a background of Europeans trying to exterminate them and however well they try to get on with Palestinians the likes of Iran will still try and kill everyone in Israel.
Netanyahu doesn't even care about the people of Israel and the Iranians are suppressing their own people, so it doesn't seem as if they will care much for the Palestinians.
It is hopeless.
The years of brutalisation and oppression provide context but they do not provide justification for the murder of women and children.
Bloody Sunday does not justify Omagh.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 08, 2023, 09:53:37 PMand the Iranians are suppressing their own people, so it doesn't seem as if they will care much for the Palestinians.
It is hopeless.
That is actually true. The rest of the Arab world doesn't truly care for the Palestinians. They may pretend to once in a while for the sake of appearances, but in reality - they just don't.
Robbie Keane and Rory Delap have fled to Greece
Quote from: LeoMc on October 08, 2023, 10:00:26 PMThe years of brutalisation and oppression provide context but they do not provide justification for the murder of women and children.
Bloody Sunday does not justify Omagh.
no one is providing a justication for the the murder of children and non combatants. It is not only context, Israel has created this reality and bares the responsibility for it but the int. community is complicit.
I shared a link earlier to an Israeli speaking about the ethic cleansing of the native arab population of Palestine, Iran is nothing but a supplier of weapons, logistics etc. it should not be the Arab worlds responsibility to support justice for Palestine.
Palestinians are fighting for a just cause, their liberation from decades of this relentless savagery from the occupier. They gave peace every chance and were only rewarded by more land theft and murder and imprisonment.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 10:23:58 PMit should not be the Arab worlds responsibility to support justice for Palestine.
Well, who's responsibility is it then?
Quote from: burdizzo on October 08, 2023, 10:29:44 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 10:23:58 PMit should not be the Arab worlds responsibility to support justice for Palestine.
Well, who's responsibility is it then?
that should have read 'not only' but it should be those who created the issue, the int community, the fulfil of the UN resolutions, and 'rules based order' of it actually meant anything.
I'm sure Hamas don't care about PR but they've lost huge amounts of good will towards the Palestinian people. The planners will be sitting hunkered down in tunnels and bunkers whilst innocent men, women and children are bombed to bits by the Israelis. Disastrous.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 09:22:10 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 08:57:27 PMIt is possible to fully support the plight of the Palestine people, and condemn the atrocities on all sides. That's an opinion.
Standing with a machine gun abducting old women and young children by any measure is not heroic, it just isn't. That's a fact.
There is absolutely a difference between oppressor and the oppressed. The Palestinians have been brutalised and driven to desperation. The Israeli have chosen to brutalise. But f**king wise up suggesting it's heroic to abduct or murder unarmed civilians. Palestinians have been heroic in so many ways, but not that one.
It's also possible to call the Palestinian resistence heroic and understand the horrible realities of conflict/war and understand who bares the responsibility for it.
There should be no requirement for Palestinians to rise up against their oppressor, no requirement for them to take from the Israeli play book of abducting or murdering civilians but Israeli has created this reality.
and if you feel the need to question someone, try ursela von der leyen on twitter who repeats the genocidal call of 'Israel has the right to defend itself' and 'stands with Israel'. i repeat the Palestinian resistence is heroic and I stand with Palestine. Dammi falastini 🇵🇸
There was nothing heroic about murdering over 250 young people at a music festival, or raping and murdering a young woman and parading her body on the back of a pickup truck.
Barbaric is the nearest word I can think of.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:47:52 PMI'm sure Hamas don't care about PR but they've lost huge amounts of good will towards the Palestinian people. The planners will be sitting hunkered down in tunnels and bunkers whilst innocent men, women and children are bombed to bits by the Israelis. Disastrous.
Has this not been happening this past 10 years anyway?
Look how many Palestinians are killed yearly vs how many Israelis. No point crying about whats happened the last few days if you've been turning a blind eye for years.
Quote from: marty34 on October 08, 2023, 10:53:44 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:47:52 PMI'm sure Hamas don't care about PR but they've lost huge amounts of good will towards the Palestinian people. The planners will be sitting hunkered down in tunnels and bunkers whilst innocent men, women and children are bombed to bits by the Israelis. Disastrous.
Has this not been happening this past 10 years anyway?
Yes but this will be on another level. If they had launched the missile attack it would have been considered quite a coup for Hamas. Indiscriminate murder of innocent civilians, kidnap and rape and parading their twisted bodies typically doesn't garner much sympathy.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:56:36 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 08, 2023, 10:53:44 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:47:52 PMI'm sure Hamas don't care about PR but they've lost huge amounts of good will towards the Palestinian people. The planners will be sitting hunkered down in tunnels and bunkers whilst innocent men, women and children are bombed to bits by the Israelis. Disastrous.
Has this not been happening this past 10 years anyway?
Yes but this will be on another level. If they had launched the missile attack it would have been considered quite a coup for Hamas. Indiscriminate murder of innocent civilians, kidnap and rape and parading their twisted bodies typically doesn't garner much sympathy.
kidnap? Israel does it daily, rape (is the evidence the shott clip on twitter) Israel does, parading bodies, Israel attacked the funeral of a journalist is it murdered and it continues it barbaric actions.. Israeli actions over 75 years had led to this weekend, it has not occurred in isolation, it is not context, it is the reaction to 75 years of oppression, occupation and murder of Palestinians.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 11:08:07 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:56:36 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 08, 2023, 10:53:44 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:47:52 PMI'm sure Hamas don't care about PR but they've lost huge amounts of good will towards the Palestinian people. The planners will be sitting hunkered down in tunnels and bunkers whilst innocent men, women and children are bombed to bits by the Israelis. Disastrous.
Has this not been happening this past 10 years anyway?
Yes but this will be on another level. If they had launched the missile attack it would have been considered quite a coup for Hamas. Indiscriminate murder of innocent civilians, kidnap and rape and parading their twisted bodies typically doesn't garner much sympathy.
kidnap? Israel does it daily, rape (is the evidence the shott clip on twitter) Israel does, parading bodies, Israel attacked the funeral of a journalist is it murdered and it continues it barbaric actions.. Israeli actions over 75 years had led to this weekend, it has not occurred in isolation, it is not context, it is the reaction to 75 years of oppression, occupation and murder of Palestinians.
We all know all that and it's horrific. I'm trying to see your point but it just seems to be - they did it so they had it coming. If you're being equivocal about the murder of civilians then no point in debating it.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:56:36 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 08, 2023, 10:53:44 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:47:52 PMI'm sure Hamas don't care about PR but they've lost huge amounts of good will towards the Palestinian people. The planners will be sitting hunkered down in tunnels and bunkers whilst innocent men, women and children are bombed to bits by the Israelis. Disastrous.
Has this not been happening this past 10 years anyway?
Yes but this will be on another level. If they had launched the missile attack it would have been considered quite a coup for Hamas. Indiscriminate murder of innocent civilians, kidnap and rape and parading their twisted bodies typically doesn't garner much sympathy.
Likewise they could have attacked the military bases, captured a couple of tanks and a few officers and got a lot of publicity favourable to the Palestinian cause, but indiscriminate murder of innocent civilians is just an blatant attempt to make things worse.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 08, 2023, 11:33:24 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 11:08:07 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:56:36 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 08, 2023, 10:53:44 PMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 08, 2023, 10:47:52 PMI'm sure Hamas don't care about PR but they've lost huge amounts of good will towards the Palestinian people. The planners will be sitting hunkered down in tunnels and bunkers whilst innocent men, women and children are bombed to bits by the Israelis. Disastrous.
Has this not been happening this past 10 years anyway?
Yes but this will be on another level. If they had launched the missile attack it would have been considered quite a coup for Hamas. Indiscriminate murder of innocent civilians, kidnap and rape and parading their twisted bodies typically doesn't garner much sympathy.
kidnap? Israel does it daily, rape (is the evidence the shott clip on twitter) Israel does, parading bodies, Israel attacked the funeral of a journalist is it murdered and it continues it barbaric actions.. Israeli actions over 75 years had led to this weekend, it has not occurred in isolation, it is not context, it is the reaction to 75 years of oppression, occupation and murder of Palestinians.
We all know all that and it's horrific. I'm trying to see your point but it just seems to be - they did it so they had it coming. If you're being equivocal about the murder of civilians then no point in debating it.
That's not my point at all. My point is that Israel has created the environment in which this weekend events have unfolded. that's simplistic but i don't feel like repeating myself again.
While I am not making a direct comparison here, dresden bombing in ww2 etc. and every conflict/war is ugly (again simplistic) there are horrible inhumane actions where innocent lives are lost. Israel prevents peace, it has kidnapped 2 million Palestines etc. its 'mows the lawn', it is responsible.
Iranians aren't Arabs, they're culturally different. Like the Saudis they're shit stirrers, Israel has so much western support in part to keep these pair in check in the region.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 08, 2023, 09:45:01 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 12:26:57 PMWas Kingsmill heroic? Mountbatten?
Moronic stuff."What's good for the goose is good for the gander". What f**king age are you, you absolute child. Once you adopt that attitude, any sense of a moral high ground is immediately conceded.
Red Hand, just so you know, that's a "rhetorical" question, doesn't need an answer. Just to be clear in case you confuse a narrative technique for pretentiousness again.
Kingsmill was awful, but again if you've any understanding of what was happening you'll know why it happened and why it had to be done. Doubt you'll find too many pitying the pedo Mountbatten...
Kingsmill most certainly did not "have to be done" ffs. Catch yourself on.
What about the boat boy?
mountbatten was part of aristocratic establishment so you could say he was a legitimate target.
That previous comment on Kingsmill a f**king disgrace,
Quote from: bennydorano on October 08, 2023, 11:53:43 PMIranians aren't Arabs, they're culturally different. Like the Saudis they're shit stirrers, Israel has so much western support in part to keep these pair in check in the region.
Israel lobbied heavily for the war in Iraq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_PDpwL8kuY&t=328s
The winner of the war was Iran.
History is a record of "effects" the vast majority of which nobody intended to produce."
― Joseph Alois Schumpeter
https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1711103806002377167?t=gf6fn4JPi5hSKwZ8WRnpRQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1710623936851984689?t=N82YMg4KGfDbbpLKwRDAXw&s=19
https://twitter.com/OnlinePalEng/status/1710953936486568404?t=880BTnn7s_Abd7Newz9K7Q&s=19
https://twitter.com/Razaazaidi/status/1711222498006536439?t=UzmaHQSV8_rEKZQF3WPyUQ&s=19
Palestinians
Quote from: gallsman on October 09, 2023, 08:29:07 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 08, 2023, 02:50:24 PMMaybe shout "¡no pasarán!" a few times.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 09:22:10 PMDammi falastini
Close enough.
Another useful contribution. Can I ask what you expect me to do? should I try and make witty retorts like you!!
Anyone trying to justify this needs to take a good look at themselves
Take each atrocity be it from the Israeli's or Hamas and deal with that, the "ah but" argument is not going to work.
Israel needs to be accountable for their actions over the last 75 years or more, no one is saying what they have done over that period is fine, but butchering kids at a music festival and kidnapping 100 more will never make Hamas legit, political suicide. it beggars belief that in their head they thought that this would work out. I really fear for the 2.5 million people living in Gaza
There will be a door by door street by street take down once the troops go in, and it won't be nice and they actually won't give a stuff what anyone says when they take their revenge.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 09:30:43 AMAnyone trying to justify this needs to take a good look at themselves
Take each atrocity be it from the Israeli's or Hamas and deal with that, the "ah but" argument is not going to work.
Israel needs to be accountable for their actions over the last 75 years or more, no one is saying what they have done over that period is fine, but butchering kids at a music festival and kidnapping 100 more will never make Hamas legit, political suicide. it beggars belief that in their head they thought that this would work out. I really fear for the 2.5 million people living in Gaza
There will be a door by door street by street take down once the troops go in, and it won't be nice and they actually won't give a stuff what anyone says when they take their revenge.
I'd be interested in what real options are open to Hamas.
1- There is zero interest from Israel and her allies in any negotiation and settlement.
2- Isreal's plan is to obliterate Palestine, get rid of their people and steal their land.
3- Israel has one of the best armed armies in the world with the best of the best technology. Palestine has relative sticks and stones
4- The "international community" don't give a f**k
So bearing the above in mind, it seems like peaceful protest, writing strongly worded letters and even pinpoint targeting of Israeli army targets are pretty much nonsense ideas.
What should they do?
Here's what they shouldn't do.. murdering young people women and kids at a music festival.. Kidnapping and parading them around the streets of Gaza
I agree with all of your post btw, but the people of Palestine deserve something better than what Hamas is trying to achieve
Quote from: Itchy on October 09, 2023, 09:43:15 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 09:30:43 AMAnyone trying to justify this needs to take a good look at themselves
Take each atrocity be it from the Israeli's or Hamas and deal with that, the "ah but" argument is not going to work.
Israel needs to be accountable for their actions over the last 75 years or more, no one is saying what they have done over that period is fine, but butchering kids at a music festival and kidnapping 100 more will never make Hamas legit, political suicide. it beggars belief that in their head they thought that this would work out. I really fear for the 2.5 million people living in Gaza
There will be a door by door street by street take down once the troops go in, and it won't be nice and they actually won't give a stuff what anyone says when they take their revenge.
I'd be interested in what real options are open to Hamas.
1- There is zero interest from Israel and her allies in any negotiation and settlement.
2- Isreal's plan is to obliterate Palestine, get rid of their people and steal their land.
3- Israel has one of the best armed armies in the world with the best of the best technology. Palestine has relative sticks and stones
4- The "international community" don't give a f**k
So bearing the above in mind, it seems like peaceful protest, writing strongly worded letters and even pinpoint targeting of Israeli army targets are pretty much nonsense ideas.
What should they do?
This is what I keep coming back to. And nobody will answer this.
You're a Palestinian father and a 35T digger with truck loads of soldiers armed to the teeth for protection is rolling up to your house to demolish it, leave you and your family homeless (minimum) and give it to someone else.
And nobody gives a fcuk, because you've watched it happen to all around you for years.
And someone like MR2 is typing bullshit on his laptop from his climate controlled living room telling you you should be calm and act rationally.
WTF...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 09:30:43 AMAnyone trying to justify this needs to take a good look at themselves
Take each atrocity be it from the Israeli's or Hamas and deal with that, the "ah but" argument is not going to work.
Israel needs to be accountable for their actions over the last 75 years or more, no one is saying what they have done over that period is fine, but butchering kids at a music festival and kidnapping 100 more will never make Hamas legit, political suicide. it beggars belief that in their head they thought that this would work out. I really fear for the 2.5 million people living in Gaza
There will be a door by door street by street take down once the troops go in, and it won't be nice and they actually won't give a stuff what anyone says when they take their revenge.
that is a complete cop out. And once again no is one is offering a justification. I am certainly not going 'ah but'. no one has the time to list of all the crimes of occupation and its indirect and direct consequences.
it beggar's belief that you are trying to create a narrative, like others on here that resistent to an occupation is political suicide... not a mention of the muliple military targets hit during the resistence, for over 75 years the Palestinians have suffered there is 2m captured/kidnapped in Gaza and on here referring 100 people and it will turn people against Palestine. the narrative is set by Israel and the west and posters on here are parroting it.
already complete families have been murdered in Gaza but I've not seen one reference to it here only banal generalities about revenge etc.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 09:48:45 AMHere's what they shouldn't do.. murdering young people women and kids at a music festival.. Kidnapping and parading them around the streets of Gaza
I agree with all of your post btw, but the people of Palestine deserve something better than what Hamas is trying to achieve
they voted for Hamas before the west decided they voted the wrong way.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 09:48:45 AMHere's what they shouldn't do.. murdering young people women and kids at a music festival.. Kidnapping and parading them around the streets of Gaza
I agree with all of your post btw, but the people of Palestine deserve something better than what Hamas is trying to achieve
I agree with this but the Western world isn't interested in Palestine, they actively turn a blind eye to the IDF's terrorist war crimes day and daily, it's only when the likes of Hamas fight back and yes it's barbaric, the very same barbaric attacks that are carried out on them, but we in the West have a jaundiced eye on this.
The State of Israel is a law unto itself, ably enabled by the Religious wing nuts in the US, British arrogance and German guilt.
We're only hearing about this because there's loads of Jews in the USA, UK that are wealthy and they vote. Other than that, this is just another centuries old war in a country thousands of miles away.
Quote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 10:01:39 AMWe're only hearing about this because there's loads of Jews in the USA, UK that are wealthy and they vote. Other than that, this is just another centuries old war in a country thousands of miles away.
it is not centuries old. You clearly haven't a clue, antisemitism tropes reaffirm that.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 09:48:45 AMHere's what they shouldn't do.. murdering young people women and kids at a music festival.. Kidnapping and parading them around the streets of Gaza
I agree with all of your post btw, but the people of Palestine deserve something better than what Hamas is trying to achieve
I know but its also easy to say what they shouldnt do. I'd love to know what they
should do
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 10:04:54 AMQuote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 10:01:39 AMWe're only hearing about this because there's loads of Jews in the USA, UK that are wealthy and they vote. Other than that, this is just another centuries old war in a country thousands of miles away.
it is not centuries old. You clearly haven't a clue, antisemitism tropes reaffirm that.
Muslims, Christians, and all sorts have been fighting over that piece of land for millennia.
Quote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 09:50:51 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 09, 2023, 09:43:15 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 09:30:43 AMAnyone trying to justify this needs to take a good look at themselves
Take each atrocity be it from the Israeli's or Hamas and deal with that, the "ah but" argument is not going to work.
Israel needs to be accountable for their actions over the last 75 years or more, no one is saying what they have done over that period is fine, but butchering kids at a music festival and kidnapping 100 more will never make Hamas legit, political suicide. it beggars belief that in their head they thought that this would work out. I really fear for the 2.5 million people living in Gaza
There will be a door by door street by street take down once the troops go in, and it won't be nice and they actually won't give a stuff what anyone says when they take their revenge.
I'd be interested in what real options are open to Hamas.
1- There is zero interest from Israel and her allies in any negotiation and settlement.
2- Isreal's plan is to obliterate Palestine, get rid of their people and steal their land.
3- Israel has one of the best armed armies in the world with the best of the best technology. Palestine has relative sticks and stones
4- The "international community" don't give a f**k
So bearing the above in mind, it seems like peaceful protest, writing strongly worded letters and even pinpoint targeting of Israeli army targets are pretty much nonsense ideas.
What should they do?
This is what I keep coming back to. And nobody will answer this.
You're a Palestinian father and a 35T digger with truck loads of soldiers armed to the teeth for protection is rolling up to your house to demolish it, leave you and your family homeless (minimum) and give it to someone else.
And nobody gives a fcuk, because you've watched it happen to all around you for years.
And someone like MR2 is typing bullshit on his laptop from his climate controlled living room telling you you should be calm and act rationally.
WTF...
So put up were I said stay calm and act rationally? You can't wait to take the personal attack at me, but sure fill your boots
So what should they do?
I don't know. But I'm not the one on here pontificating about what they shouldn't do. Maybe you want to have a go at answering the question?
But I'll tell you this truth. If you treat a group of people like subhuman savages, then you shouldn't be wringing hands and acting surprised when they behave in exactly that way.
Quote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 10:38:56 AMI don't know. But I'm not the one on here pontificating about what they shouldn't do. Maybe you want to have a go at answering the question?
But I'll tell you this truth. If you treat a group of people like subhuman savages, then you shouldn't be wringing hands and acting surprised when they behave in exactly that way.
At no point have I said the Israeli's are better than Hamas and justify the constant attacks, land grabbing, and demolishing homes and everything else..
The thread title is what I'm talking about..
I could talk at length on Israel's atrocities
What should they do? Christ, who knows? There has been better people than the collective on here who have tried and got absolutely nowhere
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 10:57:14 AMQuote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 10:38:56 AMI don't know. But I'm not the one on here pontificating about what they shouldn't do. Maybe you want to have a go at answering the question?
But I'll tell you this truth. If you treat a group of people like subhuman savages, then you shouldn't be wringing hands and acting surprised when they behave in exactly that way.
At no point have I said the Israeli's are better than Hamas and justify the constant attacks, land grabbing, and demolishing homes and everything else..
The thread title is what I'm talking about..
I could talk at length on Israel's atrocities
What should they do? Christ, who knows? There has been better people than the collective on here who have tried and got absolutely nowhere
Meanwhile a list of atrocities continues to be perpetrated against these people on a continuous basis
And you've no idea what they should do, but you're happy to sit back from the comfort of your own home and your only contribution is to tell them where they went wrong
Can you see why that sticks in the craw a bit?
And it's nothing to do with some perceived 'personal vendetta'
PS
The thread title is a great example of propaganda in action
In Ukraine the same thing would be described (accurately) as a counteroffensive...
Quote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 11:15:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 10:57:14 AMQuote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 10:38:56 AMI don't know. But I'm not the one on here pontificating about what they shouldn't do. Maybe you want to have a go at answering the question?
But I'll tell you this truth. If you treat a group of people like subhuman savages, then you shouldn't be wringing hands and acting surprised when they behave in exactly that way.
At no point have I said the Israeli's are better than Hamas and justify the constant attacks, land grabbing, and demolishing homes and everything else..
The thread title is what I'm talking about..
I could talk at length on Israel's atrocities
What should they do? Christ, who knows? There has been better people than the collective on here who have tried and got absolutely nowhere
Meanwhile a list of atrocities continues to be perpetrated against these people on a continuous basis
And you've no idea what they should do, but you're happy to sit back from the comfort of your own home and your only contribution is to tell them where they went wrong
Can you see why that sticks in the craw a bit?
And it's nothing to do with some perceived 'personal vendetta'
PS
The thread title is a great example of propaganda in action
In Ukraine the same thing would be described (accurately) as a counteroffensive...
Fully agree with the last line there. The hypocrisy when it comes to the two situations is shocking
The Israelis are cutting off the water in Gaza. Sounds like something Hitler would have done....
Edited as what I had been trying to achieve with my post has turned me into an anti semite apparently.
The thread title (mine), could not be more factually correct if i'd spent hours thinking of one. Propaganda?
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/1009/1409723-gaza-israel/
Pure animals, how they get away with these war crimes. The US backing them by sending a war ship. The hypocrisy of global politics is truly shocking. Some of the images of death / destruction on both sides, utterly horrifying. War is extremely ugly & the world looks pretty unstable at the moment.
Quote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 12:21:43 PMThe Jews are cutting off the water in Gaza. Sounds like something Hitler would have done....
One of the great ironies of the world, the descendants of people so horrifically wronged by the Nazis use the same Nazi tactics on the most vulnerable people in their region, the Palestinians.
Quote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 12:21:43 PMThe Jews are cutting off the water in Gaza. Sounds like something Hitler would have done....
I find posts using terminology like that disturbing. Israelis is the terminology.
Quote from: bennydorano on October 09, 2023, 12:39:09 PMThe thread title (mine), could not be more factually correct if i'd spent hours thinking of one. Propaganda?
It's factually correct for sure.
But in the same way that it's factually correct to say 'Israel has a right to defend itself'.
edited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Yes indeed, cheerio.
Quote from: bennydorano on October 09, 2023, 12:49:48 PMQuote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 12:21:43 PMThe Jews are cutting off the water in Gaza. Sounds like something Hitler would have done....
I find posts using terminology like that disturbing. Israelis is the terminology.
I deliberately used it. I wanted to draw the comparisons of how Germany treated Jews to how Israel is treating Arabs.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 12:55:28 PMedited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Explain.
Quote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 12:55:28 PMedited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Explain.
Read back through the posts, you used anti semitic tropes in a previous post and were called out on it. Jews are not collectively responsible for Israel, holding Jews responsible for Israeli crimes is anti semitic. There are Jews who support Israel and Jews who don't.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:17:39 PMQuote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 12:55:28 PMedited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Explain.
Read back through the posts, you used anti semitic tropes in a previous post and were called out on it. Jews are not collectively responsible for Israel, holding Jews responsible for Israeli crimes is anti semitic. There are Jews who support Israel and Jews who don't.
That's not true.
We're only hearing about this because there's loads of Jews in the USA, UK that are wealthy and they vote.
wealthy jews control the media/governments/banks etc. is an anti semitic trope.
more ambulances have been targeted by Israel. incriminate bombing of densely populated Gaza continues, silence from the EU/int community, not even the courtesy call for restraint.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:17:39 PMQuote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 12:55:28 PMedited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Explain.
Read back through the posts, you used anti semitic tropes in a previous post and were called out on it. Jews are not collectively responsible for Israel, holding Jews responsible for Israeli crimes is anti semitic. There are Jews who support Israel and Jews who don't.
I dunno, why would you care so much? Padraig Pearse wouldn't have?! Israel is a Jewish state, so it's fair - albeit deliberately provocative - to say "the Jews" did this, that, or the other. It is strange, however, as someone here implied: the ones in Israel appear to be far more together and into their sense of themselves, as opposed to the ones outside Israel who are far more the 'anti-fa' types. In fact, I know one of them personally - on one hand he has anti-fa t-shirts and attitudes, and on the other hand he goes around in faux bullet-ridden t-shirts w/ the slogan "Mossad - it was no accident!"! And he hates Palestinians!
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:34:07 PMWe're only hearing about this because there's loads of Jews in the USA, UK that are wealthy and they vote.
wealthy jews control the media/governments/banks etc. is an anti semitic trope.
That's what you took from that?
There are lots of wars taking place at the moment, each with unfathomable massacres on a daily basis. Even when Israel launches attacks on Palestine we don't hear about them.
Israel has a huge diaspora in Europe and the US and that is why this is news, not because they set the agenda.
I have seen much coverage of the Syrian conflict, or Myanmar. Not many of those people living in the UK or US I suppose.
People need to look beyond what BBC and ITV are showing us.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 09, 2023, 01:42:28 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:17:39 PMQuote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 12:55:28 PMedited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Explain.
Read back through the posts, you used anti semitic tropes in a previous post and were called out on it. Jews are not collectively responsible for Israel, holding Jews responsible for Israeli crimes is anti semitic. There are Jews who support Israel and Jews who don't.
I dunno, why would you care so much? Padraig Pearse wouldn't have?! Israel is a Jewish state, so it's fair - albeit deliberately provocative - to say "the Jews" did this, that, or the other. It is strange, however, as someone here implied: the ones in Israel appear to be far more together and into their sense of themselves, as opposed to the ones outside Israel who are far more the 'anti-fa' types. In fact, I know one of them personally - on one hand he has anti-fa t-shirts and attitudes, and on the other hand he goes around in faux bullet-ridden t-shirts w/ the slogan "Mossad - it was no accident!"! And he hates Palestinians!
.
I suppose anti semitic tropes and similar comments haven't ever led to anything too bad!!! racism is racism and should be called out. Anti semitism accusations are/can also be used to distract from legitimate criticism of Israel
I've no idea what the second half of you post is about, and don't care
Quote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:43:37 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:34:07 PMWe're only hearing about this because there's loads of Jews in the USA, UK that are wealthy and they vote.
wealthy jews control the media/governments/banks etc. is an anti semitic trope.
That's what you took from that?
There are lots of wars taking place at the moment, each with unfathomable massacres on a daily basis. Even when Israel launches attacks on Palestine we don't hear about them.
Israel has a huge diaspora in Europe and the US and that is why this is news, not because they set the agenda.
I have seen much coverage of the Syrian conflict, or Myanmar. Not many of those people living in the UK or US I suppose.
People need to look beyond what BBC and ITV are showing us.
Quote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:43:37 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:34:07 PMWe're only hearing about this because there's loads of Jews in the USA, UK that are wealthy and they vote.
wealthy jews control the media/governments/banks etc. is an anti semitic trope.
That's what you took from that?
There are lots of wars taking place at the moment, each with unfathomable massacres on a daily basis. Even when Israel launches attacks on Palestine we don't hear about them.
Israel has a huge diaspora in Europe and the US and that is why this is news, not because they set the agenda.
I have seen much coverage of the Syrian conflict, or Myanmar. Not many of those people living in the UK or US I suppose.
People need to look beyond what BBC and ITV are showing us.
it's what you said. You could have said people who support Israel, or the Israeli lobby is very powerful.
"We are Fighting with Human Animals and we will act accordingly"
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:50:48 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 09, 2023, 01:42:28 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:17:39 PMQuote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 12:55:28 PMedited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Explain.
Read back through the posts, you used anti semitic tropes in a previous post and were called out on it. Jews are not collectively responsible for Israel, holding Jews responsible for Israeli crimes is anti semitic. There are Jews who support Israel and Jews who don't.
I dunno, why would you care so much? Padraig Pearse wouldn't have?! Israel is a Jewish state, so it's fair - albeit deliberately provocative - to say "the Jews" did this, that, or the other. It is strange, however, as someone here implied: the ones in Israel appear to be far more together and into their sense of themselves, as opposed to the ones outside Israel who are far more the 'anti-fa' types. In fact, I know one of them personally - on one hand he has anti-fa t-shirts and attitudes, and on the other hand he goes around in faux bullet-ridden t-shirts w/ the slogan "Mossad - it was no accident!"! And he hates Palestinians!
.
I suppose anti semitic tropes and similar comments haven't ever led to anything too bad!!! racism is racism and should be called out. Anti semitism accusations are/can also be used to distract from legitimate criticism of Israel
I've no idea what the second half of you post is about, and don't care
My goodness. Let's be more plain - Jews in Europe and US promote cultural diffusion and the breakdown of traditional societal models, whereas in Israel itself, the complete reverse is the case. And one I know sees no contradiction in this!
Quote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 09:50:51 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 09, 2023, 09:43:15 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 09:30:43 AMAnyone trying to justify this needs to take a good look at themselves
Take each atrocity be it from the Israeli's or Hamas and deal with that, the "ah but" argument is not going to work.
Israel needs to be accountable for their actions over the last 75 years or more, no one is saying what they have done over that period is fine, but butchering kids at a music festival and kidnapping 100 more will never make Hamas legit, political suicide. it beggars belief that in their head they thought that this would work out. I really fear for the 2.5 million people living in Gaza
There will be a door by door street by street take down once the troops go in, and it won't be nice and they actually won't give a stuff what anyone says when they take their revenge.
I'd be interested in what real options are open to Hamas.
1- There is zero interest from Israel and her allies in any negotiation and settlement.
2- Isreal's plan is to obliterate Palestine, get rid of their people and steal their land.
3- Israel has one of the best armed armies in the world with the best of the best technology. Palestine has relative sticks and stones
4- The "international community" don't give a f**k
So bearing the above in mind, it seems like peaceful protest, writing strongly worded letters and even pinpoint targeting of Israeli army targets are pretty much nonsense ideas.
What should they do?
This is what I keep coming back to. And nobody will answer this.
You're a Palestinian father and a 35T digger with truck loads of soldiers armed to the teeth for protection is rolling up to your house to demolish it, leave you and your family homeless (minimum) and give it to someone else.
And nobody gives a fcuk, because you've watched it happen to all around you for years.
And someone like MR2 is typing bullshit on his laptop from his climate controlled living room telling you you should be calm and act rationally.
WTF...
Someone in Gaza is probably thinking about what Antrim hurling should do.
Hamas went and got help from the Iranians. That wasn't a bad idea. At the end of the day nobody actually cares about dead Israelis. The news will move on. How many people remember the Titan submersible? That was 3 months ago.
the news moves on, that doesn't mean people don't care.
burdizzo, still no clue what you are on about and still don't care.
Can I asked what sources posters are using to keep informed of the current 'escalation' and is it the same sources they already/previously used?
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2023, 02:05:49 PMQuote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 09:50:51 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 09, 2023, 09:43:15 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 09:30:43 AMAnyone trying to justify this needs to take a good look at themselves
Take each atrocity be it from the Israeli's or Hamas and deal with that, the "ah but" argument is not going to work.
Israel needs to be accountable for their actions over the last 75 years or more, no one is saying what they have done over that period is fine, but butchering kids at a music festival and kidnapping 100 more will never make Hamas legit, political suicide. it beggars belief that in their head they thought that this would work out. I really fear for the 2.5 million people living in Gaza
There will be a door by door street by street take down once the troops go in, and it won't be nice and they actually won't give a stuff what anyone says when they take their revenge.
I'd be interested in what real options are open to Hamas.
1- There is zero interest from Israel and her allies in any negotiation and settlement.
2- Isreal's plan is to obliterate Palestine, get rid of their people and steal their land.
3- Israel has one of the best armed armies in the world with the best of the best technology. Palestine has relative sticks and stones
4- The "international community" don't give a f**k
So bearing the above in mind, it seems like peaceful protest, writing strongly worded letters and even pinpoint targeting of Israeli army targets are pretty much nonsense ideas.
What should they do?
This is what I keep coming back to. And nobody will answer this.
You're a Palestinian father and a 35T digger with truck loads of soldiers armed to the teeth for protection is rolling up to your house to demolish it, leave you and your family homeless (minimum) and give it to someone else.
And nobody gives a fcuk, because you've watched it happen to all around you for years.
And someone like MR2 is typing bullshit on his laptop from his climate controlled living room telling you you should be calm and act rationally.
WTF...
Someone in Gaza is probably thinking about what Antrim hurling should do.
Hamas went and got help from the Iranians. That wasn't a bad idea. At the end of the day nobody actually cares about dead Israelis. The news will move on. How many people remember the Titan submersible? That was 3 months ago.
To be fair I didn't care about the Titan submersible at the time, never mind 3 months on.
Reports on Twitter of IDF now attacking Lebanon.
Quote from: general_lee on October 09, 2023, 03:23:52 PMReports on Twitter of IDF now attacking Lebanon.
Defo seen last nights news that they had already attacked the Lebanon, though that was the BBC not twitter
The reporting true to form is referring to Israeli indiscriminate bombing as 'retalition' and people dying in Gaza and being killed in Israel.
Ursela van der leyen/EU still standing with Israel.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 03:53:51 PMThe reporting true to form is referring to Israeli indiscriminate bombing as 'retalition' and people dying in Gaza and being killed in Israel.
Ursela van der leyen/EU still standing with Israel.
UvdL is German. The most rabid Israel supporters in the EU are the Germans and the Dutch.
The Zionists have them by the balls. 75% of Dutch Jews were murdered during WW2 with a little help from the locals. The figure is much higher than for France or Belgium.
Anne Frank is a sanitised version of what happened
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/apeldoornsebos.html
And Germany ran the Holocaust. So you will never get either condemning Israel.
The problem with this is that Israel never adjusts its behaviour because it never listens to anyone and there is never any accountability.It just lashes out in rage . A lot of Israelis believe that the Messiah made Israel possible and that the country is on a mission from God. Some day a bigger, more powerful enemy who doesn't give a f**k about human rights either will roll up and that will be the end of Israel.
https://nationalinterest.org/commentary/brzezinski-the-syria-crisis-8636
But in the long run, a hostile region like that cannot be policed, even by a nuclear-armed Israel. It will simply do to Israel what some of the wars have done to us on a smaller scale. Attrite it, tire it, fatigue it, demoralize it, cause emigration of the best and the first, and then some sort of cataclysm at the end which cannot be predicted at this stage because we don't know who will have what by when. And after all, Iran is next door. It might have some nuclear capability. Suppose the Israelis knock it off. What about Pakistan and others? The notion that one can control a region from a very strong and motivated country, but of only six million people, is simply a wild dream.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:17:39 PMQuote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 12:55:28 PMedited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Explain.
Read back through the posts, you used anti semitic tropes in a previous post and were called out on it. Jews are not collectively responsible for Israel, holding Jews responsible for Israeli crimes is anti semitic. There are Jews who support Israel and Jews who don't.
There are also a lot of Jews and Jewish groups who find how Israel is treating Palestine to be reprehensible
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 09, 2023, 04:40:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:17:39 PMQuote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 12:55:28 PMedited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Explain.
Read back through the posts, you used anti semitic tropes in a previous post and were called out on it. Jews are not collectively responsible for Israel, holding Jews responsible for Israeli crimes is anti semitic. There are Jews who support Israel and Jews who don't.
There are also a lot of Jews and Jewish groups who find how Israel is treating Palestine to be reprehensible
Ok fair enough. But Israel is literally a Jewish state for Jewish people. Referring to them as Jews is not anti-semitic.
I dislike Israel like many, but I don't know how you compare cutting the f**k out of a ton of people at a music festival compares to a, Ukraine counter offensive. For one it's mainly 2 armies facing off against each other, both heavily armed.
I honestly wonder how did this happen so easily.
Is this a ploy to try and justify to the world wiping out palestine or giving it a good go anyway?
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 09, 2023, 04:40:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:17:39 PMQuote from: trailer on October 09, 2023, 01:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 12:55:28 PMedited
this below post is in reference to trailers post. not frankos
it's not the first post like that, so ignorance is not an excuse.
Explain.
Read back through the posts, you used anti semitic tropes in a previous post and were called out on it. Jews are not collectively responsible for Israel, holding Jews responsible for Israeli crimes is anti semitic. There are Jews who support Israel and Jews who don't.
There are also a lot of Jews and Jewish groups who find how Israel is treating Palestine to be reprehensible
There are also Jews who got rid of Corbyn and replaced him with Starmer so Israel wouldn't get any awkward questions. A lot of murky stuff gets covered up by calling people anti semites. I think it's really dangerous because Judaism is a minority and history shows that people scapegoat Jews in certain scenarios. It's a huge mess.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:56:56 PM"We are Fighting with Human Animals and we will act accordingly"
Real Nazi stuff from IDF. Cutting off water, gas and electric to Gaza is a war crime, plain and simple. They have behaved like the Waffen SS for years when it comes to the Palestinians, how ironic.
Israeli Army Radio, a Station ran by the Israeli Defense Force, has stated On-Air that they will continue Airstrikes on Hamas Positions in the Gaza Strip even at the Risk of Harming the Hostages.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 09, 2023, 04:53:57 PMI dislike Israel like many, but I don't know how you compare cutting the f**k out of a ton of people at a music festival compares to a, Ukraine counter offensive. For one it's mainly 2 armies facing off against each other, both heavily armed.
The level of barbarity is sickening, no doubt. But take a second and think of the sheer depravity of the situation these people face (and have faced for decades). As I said before - if you treat people like subhuman savages, that's how they're going to behave eventually. And that's the only way to describe what you've mentioned above
Today we have an Israeli minister describing them as 'human animals'
And the Israeli government cutting off electricity, water, fuel, food and medicial supplies indiscriminately
All the while bombing civilian areas
There is no high ground in this - only a series of events which continually lower the bar
But there is no doubt as to the root cause of it all - and that's what's going to need addressed if they want to bring it to some sort of end
1000 people are dead in just one day. That's almost a 1/3 of the people killed in troubles over 25 or so years.
Nobody is coming out of this on the high ground.
Al-Qassam spokesman: "Every targeting of our people without warning will be met with the execution of a civilian hostage.
between the Israeli radio announcement earlier and this now.
Quote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 05:17:04 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 09, 2023, 04:53:57 PMI dislike Israel like many, but I don't know how you compare cutting the f**k out of a ton of people at a music festival compares to a, Ukraine counter offensive. For one it's mainly 2 armies facing off against each other, both heavily armed.
The level of barbarity is sickening, no doubt. But take a second and think of the sheer depravity of the situation these people face (and have faced for decades). As I said before - if you treat people like subhuman savages, that's how they're going to behave eventually. And that's the only way to describe what you've mentioned above
Today we have an Israeli minister describing them as 'human animals'
And the Israeli government cutting off electricity, water, fuel, food and medicial supplies indiscriminately
All the while bombing civilian areas
There is no high ground in this - only a series of events which continually lower the bar
But there is no doubt as to the root cause of it all - and that's what's going to need addressed if they want to bring it to some sort of end
Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian
@manniefabian
·
10m
Hamas spokesman Abu Obeida says the group will execute Israeli hostages for every Israeli bombing without warning, and publish footage.
Quote from: seafoid on October 09, 2023, 06:12:27 PMQuote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 05:17:04 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 09, 2023, 04:53:57 PMI dislike Israel like many, but I don't know how you compare cutting the f**k out of a ton of people at a music festival compares to a, Ukraine counter offensive. For one it's mainly 2 armies facing off against each other, both heavily armed.
The level of barbarity is sickening, no doubt. But take a second and think of the sheer depravity of the situation these people face (and have faced for decades). As I said before - if you treat people like subhuman savages, that's how they're going to behave eventually. And that's the only way to describe what you've mentioned above
Today we have an Israeli minister describing them as 'human animals'
And the Israeli government cutting off electricity, water, fuel, food and medicial supplies indiscriminately
All the while bombing civilian areas
There is no high ground in this - only a series of events which continually lower the bar
But there is no doubt as to the root cause of it all - and that's what's going to need addressed if they want to bring it to some sort of end
Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian
@manniefabian
·
10m
Hamas spokesman Abu Obeida says the group will execute Israeli hostages for every Israeli bombing without warning, and publish footage.
The Israelis have such a blood lust I don't think they care.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 09, 2023, 04:59:13 PMI honestly wonder how did this happen so easily.
Is this a ploy to try and justify to the world wiping out palestine or giving it a good go anyway?
It's like you read my mind
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 09, 2023, 06:27:58 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 09, 2023, 04:59:13 PMI honestly wonder how did this happen so easily.
Is this a ploy to try and justify to the world wiping out palestine or giving it a good go anyway?
It's like you read my mind
It definitely has that feeling.
The Israelis elected an annexation Govt to annex the West Bank and sideline the Palestinians. The Qataris were negotiating a deal to rebuild Gaza in return for a long term ceasefire and Israel and Saudi were going in for some heavy petting. This was the context in which Hamas went for the jugular.
Their neutralisation of the observation/submachine towers around Gaza was very professional
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1710622410628624891
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1711330417507197141
Re hostages : Israelis really don't like anyone Israeli dying because of the occupation . They will try to get people back. It may override their bloodlust.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/martin-indyk-why-hamas-attacked-and-why-israel-was-taken-surprise
will they execute foreign hostages aswell
Looks like Madagascar was the place for them, after all!!
https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1711404813856932040
Lord John Kilclooney @KilclooneyJohn
Israel is now involved in indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Gaza. This is a War Crime which both the U.K. and EU are supporting!
There a no. Of Hamas fighters there in TV clips, obviously of a African background.
Are Russia involved in this behind the scenes
Wondering that myself. This thing is going to spiral. More to this I would think than a random well planned attack.
Seen the scenes from the music festival that was attacked on the news this evening, brutal stuff.
What did Hamas think they were actually going to achieve by doing what they did on Saturday?
Israel will bomb them to kingdom come plus I see they have now cut the water off and no one in the West will say boo to them.
David Aaronovitch substack, probably my favourite journo.
https://open.substack.com/pub/davidaaronovitch/p/awake-in-the-night?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
A great read and his final thoughts remind me shitehawks like burrdizzo shouldn't be entertained.
"One more thing. Vile moments like this may bring out the worst in good people but they certainly empower bad ones. Disinformation on Musk's X is rife and the New Right does its best to associate Hamas with migration to bolster its attack on diversity. Some fall into the essentialist trap of "Muslims are this" or "Zionists" are that. Look before you retweet. It isn't much, but it's all you have."
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 09, 2023, 11:38:01 AMQuote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 11:15:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 10:57:14 AMQuote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 10:38:56 AMI don't know. But I'm not the one on here pontificating about what they shouldn't do. Maybe you want to have a go at answering the question?
But I'll tell you this truth. If you treat a group of people like subhuman savages, then you shouldn't be wringing hands and acting surprised when they behave in exactly that way.
At no point have I said the Israeli's are better than Hamas and justify the constant attacks, land grabbing, and demolishing homes and everything else..
The thread title is what I'm talking about..
I could talk at length on Israel's atrocities
What should they do? Christ, who knows? There has been better people than the collective on here who have tried and got absolutely nowhere
Meanwhile a list of atrocities continues to be perpetrated against these people on a continuous basis
And you've no idea what they should do, but you're happy to sit back from the comfort of your own home and your only contribution is to tell them where they went wrong
Can you see why that sticks in the craw a bit?
And it's nothing to do with some perceived 'personal vendetta'
PS
The thread title is a great example of propaganda in action
In Ukraine the same thing would be described (accurately) as a counteroffensive...
Fully agree with the last line there. The hypocrisy when it comes to the two situations is shocking
It is madness. Israel should be totally boycotted and shunned like Russia has been over Ukraine.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 09, 2023, 01:34:07 PMWe're only hearing about this because there's loads of Jews in the USA, UK that are wealthy and they vote.
wealthy jews control the media/governments/banks etc. is an anti semitic trope.
Is it antisemitic if it is true though? Agreed that I wouldn't blame all Jews for those bastards in Israel. (I wouldn't even blame all Israelis)
Quote from: LC on October 09, 2023, 08:39:39 PMSeen the scenes from the music festival that was attacked on the news this evening, brutal stuff.
What did Hamas think they were actually going to achieve by doing what they did on Saturday?
Israel will bomb them to kingdom come plus I see they have now cut the water off and no one in the West will say boo to them.
That is f**king disgusting.
trump and his fans are blaming obama and biden
if hamas knew the scale of the attack then you would think they would have knowing isreals reponse will be which means maybe they got promises from iran and hezbollah they would intervene
Quote from: Eire90 on October 09, 2023, 09:53:54 PMif hamas knew the scale of the attack then you would think they would have knowing isreals reponse will be which means maybe they got promises from iran and hezbollah they would intervene
Palestinians should die quietly in their ghetto and not resist their occupier. Israel has 'mowed the lawn' many times before, this is not retalition, this is typical of what Palestinians suffer periodically, fully supported by the EU/US.
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1711499431491535091?t=5OWE6VGhgOQz3EiTK5SbMQ&s=19
EU/UK/US sickening tolerance for murder/massacres within the 25 x 5 mile cage with 2 million Palestinians,
1 million under 18 years old.. move a little outside that area and a completely different story.
and you wonder why resistance rise up against their occupier.
how many more Palestinians must be slaughter before they call for 'restraint'
The EU is very disappointingly one sided on this issue.
The rush by some (right wing?) Commissioner to say they were cutting off humanitarian aid was appalling.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2023, 11:01:01 PMThe EU is very disappointingly one sided on this issue.
The rush by some (right wing?) Commissioner to say they were cutting off humanitarian aid was appalling.
Shower of bastards.
Padraig, no matter what you say, which is correct, excuses shooting up a music festival. Was the Omagh bomb a correct course of action to get back at a British state.?The,Israel state carry out these actions like the British state did, should we shoot any englander that comes along, with the Slogan, For Ireland!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 09, 2023, 11:05:53 PMPadraig, no matter what you say, which is correct, excuses shooting up a music festival. Was the Omagh bomb a correct course of action to get back at a British state.?The,Israel state carry out these actions like the British state did, should we shoot any englander that comes along, with the Slogan, For Ireland!
Why are you on about the music festival? This didnt start with a music festival. Why are you not on about the countless atrocities committed by Israel that led to this moment. That is the cause, that should be the focus. Nobody is looking to excuse anything.
less than 10 years ago, summer 2014 Israel was slaughtering on average 11 children a day.
irish academic twitter account https://twitter.com/SeanMac_R/status/1711497006856737243?t=StKV8i9Kj8MgTyE3XuvH2Q&s=19
Nelson Mandela https://twitter.com/PAFA_ngo/status/1711493703351611708?t=VfNtHYK7WBhpezWGgdZ7jA&s=19
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0K2GQ43Kr4igu31nwJLYdnYTuNFqL1KDfugk9jgJUd72VwTpV6iokM8hTX4MhKXwfl&id=100064544237612
Shows just who and what that bastard is too.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 09, 2023, 11:55:56 PMhttps://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0K2GQ43Kr4igu31nwJLYdnYTuNFqL1KDfugk9jgJUd72VwTpV6iokM8hTX4MhKXwfl&id=100064544237612
Shows just who and what that bastard is too.
The mask is slipping...
The Dup do realise the, Israelians, though in its infancy killed more British soldiers than the IRA, never understood the love in.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 10, 2023, 12:34:14 AMThe Dup do realise the, Israelians, though in its infancy killed more British soldiers than the IRA, never understood the love in.
Because our side supports Palestine they have to do the opposite...
This is no "bolt from the blue." Western media coverage always starts with the Hamas actions, never the ongoing occupation and the events that led up to it.
The music festival massacre and hostage-taking is horrifying, and will do nothing to build international support for the Palestinian cause. The sophistication of this operation leads me to wonder how much backing from Iran had to do with it. There's no way this could have been carried out purely with the resources available within Gaza. I also wonder how much American-style conservative thinking, and the fact-averse nature of it, led to the intelligence failure.
Tonight the Israeli authorities were openly stating they'll be cutting off water and electricity to Gaza. A war crime. If past form is anything to go by, they'll get away with it again. Israel's entire schtick is that it's some sort of respectable western democracy, but its hands are no cleaner than Hamas.
The innocents have paid and will pay a heavy price for this.
How did Israel with their state of the art military not see this coming? Or did they need an excuse to justify totally wiping out the Palestinians?
https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2023/10/09/hamas-gave-israel-the-impression-that-it-was-not-ready-for-a-fight/
A commando unit attacked the Israeli army's southern Gaza headquarters and jammed its communications, preventing personnel from calling commanders or each other, the source said.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2023, 11:01:01 PMThe EU is very disappointingly one sided on this issue.
The rush by some (right wing?) Commissioner to say they were cutting off humanitarian aid was appalling.
Stupid
Cutting off aid will just radicalise people
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 05:47:10 AMHow did Israel with their state of the art military not see this coming? Or did they need an excuse to justify totally wiping out the Palestinians?
This
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 05:02:40 AMThis is no "bolt from the blue." Western media coverage always starts with the Hamas actions, never the ongoing occupation and the events that led up to it.
The music festival massacre and hostage-taking is horrifying, and will do nothing to build international support for the Palestinian cause. The sophistication of this operation leads me to wonder how much backing from Iran had to do with it. There's no way this could have been carried out purely with the resources available within Gaza. I also wonder how much American-style conservative thinking, and the fact-averse nature of it, led to the intelligence failure.
Tonight the Israeli authorities were openly stating they'll be cutting off water and electricity to Gaza. A war crime. If past form is anything to go by, they'll get away with it again. Israel's entire schtick is that it's some sort of respectable western democracy, but its hands are no cleaner than Hamas.
The innocents have paid and will pay a heavy price for this.
The West isn't going to help the Palestinians. There won't be a combined Liverpool and Maun Utd thread Brigade flying out any day soon,. The EU is hopelessly compromised because of the Holocaust and the EU has to have consensus to do anything. Everyone in DC is afraid of the Jewish lobby. The British Labour party has been captured. People in the West are more likely to buy Israel's colonial narrative that the Palestinians are backward savages. And this is not our fight.
The people who can drive change are the people of the Middle East. They are very familiar with Israel's cruelty because they see it all the time and they speak the same language as the people in Gaza. They know that the killing didn't start on Saturday. And they don't see the Palestinians as backward savages. Why would they? The Palestinians are their people.
Israel is very like Prussia, the former warmongering German state on the Baltic . Its last outing in the Champions League was WW2. The Soviets destroyed East Prussia in 1945. The population was deported and the territory was split between Russia and Poland. Warmongers die sooner.
Israel has invaded Lebanon 7 times and murdered many thousands of Lebanese civilians. It has bombed Syria and Iraq countless times. It has bombed the shit out of Gaza 5 times in the last 15 years. Everyone in the Middle East from Morocco to the Afghan border knows this. Most people in the region hate the Israeli cruelty machine. Israel is also an easy enemy for venal regimes to point at . Most Arabs and Iranians don't speak English so they don't get all the Israeli propaganda.
Unless Israel changes radically, the bill will be presented at some point. And no quarter will be given. That is how it rolls.
Trouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:02:15 AMTrouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
Shooting kids for sport is also despicable. It is hard to understand a situation if you don't take everything into account. The framing of Palestinians as backward savages is Israeli and colonial. It's what the powerful always said about northern nationalists. It's designed to deflect attention from genuine grievances.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:02:15 AMTrouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
There will be some amount of dead bodies by the time this is all over.
I don't think it's ever really over though.
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 08:21:02 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:02:15 AMTrouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
Shooting kids for sport is also despicable. It is hard to understand a situation if you don't take everything into account. The framing of Palestinians as backward savages is Israeli and colonial. It's what the powerful always said about northern nationalists. It's designed to deflect attention from genuine grievances.
Northern Ireland had some dark days, and there were despicable acts - not confined to the republicans, let me tell you. However, conflating Irish nationalism with the Palestinian cause is self-defeating and degrading. Why liken yourself to the losers of history?! Palestinians, as I said before, are not actually liked that much across the Arab world. Sure, they're trotted out from time to time as a grievance, but no one really cares. It was like Saddam, he tried to rally the Arab world around him by invoking the Palestinians, but there was a deafening silence. I know he was desperate, and there were other factors (as there always are), but maybe there's a reason they're not liked?
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:02:15 AMTrouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
The sooner right wing nutjobs learn to distinguish the difference between Hamas and Palestinian civilians, the better.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:36:57 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 08:21:02 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:02:15 AMTrouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
Shooting kids for sport is also despicable. It is hard to understand a situation if you don't take everything into account. The framing of Palestinians as backward savages is Israeli and colonial. It's what the powerful always said about northern nationalists. It's designed to deflect attention from genuine grievances.
Northern Ireland had some dark days, and there were despicable acts - not confined to the republicans, let me tell you. However, conflating Irish nationalism with the Palestinian cause is self-defeating and degrading. Why liken yourself to the losers of history?! Palestinians, as I said before, are not actually liked that much across the Arab world. Sure, they're trotted out from time to time as a grievance, but no one really cares. It was like Saddam, he tried to rally the Arab world around him by invoking the Palestinians, but there was a deafening silence. I know he was desperate, and there were other factors (as there always are), but maybe there's a reason they're not liked?
So you basically see them as sub human. Says it all about you!
I'm on the centre right end of the spectrum, but I can tell right from wrong. All you need to do is look at goggle maps, the Palestinian people hemmed into an open jail in 2 small parcels of land, while Israelis have ample space to move freely. The Israelis regularly guilty of war crimes.
If people want to see the real face of the far right, look no further than Netanyahu & his cronies. Disgusting but not surprising he is supported by Von der Leyen & Biden. Look around us in europe, we have savages to the south & east.
Von der Leyen is our leader, the Germans, French & Dutch our overlords, the yanks our source of income via multinationals, we are somewhat complicit in this gross terrorism.
For balance Hamas are a bad shower too, shooting & capturing civilians is an act of gross barbarity, yer one captured on video, screaming for her life, is now dead. Thats painfully bad for optics & losses sympathy, even if the state of Israel are the real aggressors here.
One could argue that Israelis voted in this Netanyahu regime (although only marginally), I still struggle with death of innocents. The international community need to intervene, but thats not going to happen, what choice do the people of Palestine have? This is as ugly as it gets.
As Irish people we should not stand with the Israelis we need to be decent & some how support the impoverished from Palestine.
Quote from: Rudi on October 10, 2023, 08:45:10 AMI'm on the centre right end of the spectrum, but I can tell right from wrong. All you need to do is look at goggle maps, the Palestinian people hemmed into an open jail in 2 small parcels of land, while Israelis have ample space to move freely. The Israelis regularly guilty of war crimes.
If people want to see the real face of the far right, look no further than Netanyahu & his cronies. Disgusting but not surprising he is supported by Von der Leyen & Biden. Look around us in europe, we have savages to the south & east.
Von der Leyen is our leader, the Germans, French & Dutch our overlords, the yanks our source of income via multinationals, we are somewhat complicit in this gross terrorism.
For balance Hamas are a bad shower too, shooting & capturing civilians is an act of gross barbarity, yer one captured on video, screaming for her life, is now dead. Thats painfully bad for optics & losses sympathy, even if the state of Israel are the real aggressors here.
One could argue that Israelis voted in this Netanyahu regime (although only marginally), I still struggle with death of innocents. The international community need to intervene, but thats not going to happen, what choice do the people of Palestine have? This is as ugly as it gets.
As Irish people we should not stand with the Israelis we need to be decent & some how support the impoverished from Palestine.
Yup.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:36:57 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 08:21:02 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:02:15 AMTrouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
Shooting kids for sport is also despicable. It is hard to understand a situation if you don't take everything into account. The framing of Palestinians as backward savages is Israeli and colonial. It's what the powerful always said about northern nationalists. It's designed to deflect attention from genuine grievances.
Northern Ireland had some dark days, and there were despicable acts - not confined to the republicans, let me tell you. However, conflating Irish nationalism with the Palestinian cause is self-defeating and degrading. Why liken yourself to the losers of history?! Palestinians, as I said before, are not actually liked that much across the Arab world. Sure, they're trotted out from time to time as a grievance, but no one really cares. It was like Saddam, he tried to rally the Arab world around him by invoking the Palestinians, but there was a deafening silence. I know he was desperate, and there were other factors (as there always are), but maybe there's a reason they're not liked?
Burdizzo, as well as being a horrible right wing racist it appears will now lecture us on the conflict in the North, all the way from battle hardened Laois no less. As well as being an expert on skin colour and the history of the troubles he has also carried out extensive surveys where he has determined that the Palestinians are "losers" and "are not liked" by the majority of Arabs. We can only imagine this work took him decades to complete given the sheer volume of Arabs in the world. I would also like to congratulate him in putting his hatred of their skin colour aside so he could carry out this great work.
Ha ha! Good ole Itchy, with his astute observations (ahem!), meaningless moralising, and baseless conjecture! What a contributor!
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:36:57 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 08:21:02 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:02:15 AMTrouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
Shooting kids for sport is also despicable. It is hard to understand a situation if you don't take everything into account. The framing of Palestinians as backward savages is Israeli and colonial. It's what the powerful always said about northern nationalists. It's designed to deflect attention from genuine grievances.
Northern Ireland had some dark days, and there were despicable acts - not confined to the republicans, let me tell you. However, conflating Irish nationalism with the Palestinian cause is self-defeating and degrading. Why liken yourself to the losers of history?! Palestinians, as I said before, are not actually liked that much across the Arab world. Sure, they're trotted out from time to time as a grievance, but no one really cares. It was like Saddam, he tried to rally the Arab world around him by invoking the Palestinians, but there was a deafening silence. I know he was desperate, and there were other factors (as there always are), but maybe there's a reason they're not liked?
;D
He says it like it's new information
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:36:57 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 08:21:02 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:02:15 AMTrouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
Shooting kids for sport is also despicable. It is hard to understand a situation if you don't take everything into account. The framing of Palestinians as backward savages is Israeli and colonial. It's what the powerful always said about northern nationalists. It's designed to deflect attention from genuine grievances.
Northern Ireland had some dark days, and there were despicable acts - not confined to the republicans, let me tell you. However, conflating Irish nationalism with the Palestinian cause is self-defeating and degrading. Why liken yourself to the losers of history?! Palestinians, as I said before, are not actually liked that much across the Arab world. Sure, they're trotted out from time to time as a grievance, but no one really cares. It was like Saddam, he tried to rally the Arab world around him by invoking the Palestinians, but there was a deafening silence. I know he was desperate, and there were other factors (as there always are), but maybe there's a reason they're not liked?
Power is not about being liked. The Iranians don't have to like the Palestinians to work with them. It's not a reality TV show. People all over the region have great sympathy for them
Yemenis https://twitter.com/Kuffiyateam/status/1710700102967296419
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 05:47:10 AMHow did Israel with their state of the art military not see this coming? Or did they need an excuse to justify totally wiping out the Palestinians?
Netanyahu convinced Israelis that they could have a technological solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict and that Israel would be guaranteed security. So they invested in walls and fences and remote machine guns based in observation towers. Because he promised them security they could have parties close to the Gaza border. Then Hamas fooled them by pretending it wasn't interested in fighting. the first thing Hamas did was disable the observation towers.
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1710622410628624891
Quote from: Franko on October 10, 2023, 09:26:20 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:36:57 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 08:21:02 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 08:02:15 AMTrouble is, raping and parading dead victims around in the back of trucks IS the work of backward savages. Yes, these people are the same as the "people of the middle east", but they are the same people as ISIS, also. They are not "like us" (and nor do they want to be). This left-wing obsession w/ the Palestinian cause is baffling. Just victim-worshipping: "oh, they can do what they like since they've been wronged". They certainly HAVE been wronged, there's no doubt, but decapitating and hacking the hands off young lads isn't the work of a civilised people. As I said, the Jews should just have been sent to Madagascar in the '30s, and an awful lot of trouble would have been averted.
Shooting kids for sport is also despicable. It is hard to understand a situation if you don't take everything into account. The framing of Palestinians as backward savages is Israeli and colonial. It's what the powerful always said about northern nationalists. It's designed to deflect attention from genuine grievances.
Northern Ireland had some dark days, and there were despicable acts - not confined to the republicans, let me tell you. However, conflating Irish nationalism with the Palestinian cause is self-defeating and degrading. Why liken yourself to the losers of history?! Palestinians, as I said before, are not actually liked that much across the Arab world. Sure, they're trotted out from time to time as a grievance, but no one really cares. It was like Saddam, he tried to rally the Arab world around him by invoking the Palestinians, but there was a deafening silence. I know he was desperate, and there were other factors (as there always are), but maybe there's a reason they're not liked?
;D
He says it like it's new information
Its a shit hot take from the smartest guy in the Irish Freedom Party
The Palestinian people and the Israeli people have the right to live their life in freedom. However both have selected monsters to achieve that freedom and the Palestinian people will suffer the most because of the power imbalance. Cheering for either side is cheering for the death and destruction of innocents.
Thoughts and prayers will do nothing either.
Hamas kills Israelis, Hamas wins.
Israelis kill Palestinians, Hamas wins.
Finally some right wing Israelis are starting to see that Netanyahu and his blood and land thirsty policies are not in their interest but it will take extreme bravery to be the first to lay down your shield.
It's up to the Israelis to change. Netanyahu is a failure now. His occupation on the cheap is banjaxed. The left wing Israelis need to seize the moment and change direction. Because they do NOT want a Jews versus Muslims religious war.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 10, 2023, 10:27:48 AMThe Palestinian people and the Israeli people have the right to live their life in freedom. However both have selected monsters to achieve that freedom and the Palestinian people will suffer the most because of the power imbalance. Cheering for either side is cheering for the death and destruction of innocents.
Thoughts and prayers will do nothing either.
Hamas kills Israelis, Hamas wins.
Israelis kill Palestinians, Hamas wins.
Finally some right wing Israelis are starting to see that Netanyahu and his blood and land thirsty policies are not in their interest but it will take extreme bravery to be the first to lay down your shield.
Both sides are in the lose-lose quadrant. But the problem is that malign forces outside are aggravating the situation, the likes of the Iran regime do not care about the Palestinians and recent events have been designed to stir things up regardless of the number killed and maimed.
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 10:35:55 AMIt's up to the Israelis to change. Netanyahu is a failure now. His occupation on the cheap is banjaxed. The left wing Israelis need to seize the moment and change direction. Because they do NOT want a Jews versus Muslims religious war.
Getting rid of Netanyahu would certainly help.
Quote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 10:11:14 AMIts a shit hot take from the smartest guy in the Irish Freedom Party
Ha ha! Again, what you deduce, from zero evidence, turns out to be wrong. You're a funny guy, but a waste of time. X
Quote from: Rudi on October 10, 2023, 08:45:10 AMI'm on the centre right end of the spectrum, but I can tell right from wrong. All you need to do is look at goggle maps, the Palestinian people hemmed into an open jail in 2 small parcels of land, while Israelis have ample space to move freely. The Israelis regularly guilty of war crimes.
If people want to see the real face of the far right, look no further than Netanyahu & his cronies. Disgusting but not surprising he is supported by Von der Leyen & Biden. Look around us in europe, we have savages to the south & east.
Von der Leyen is our leader, the Germans, French & Dutch our overlords, the yanks our source of income via multinationals, we are somewhat complicit in this gross terrorism.
For balance Hamas are a bad shower too, shooting & capturing civilians is an act of gross barbarity, yer one captured on video, screaming for her life, is now dead. Thats painfully bad for optics & losses sympathy, even if the state of Israel are the real aggressors here.
One could argue that Israelis voted in this Netanyahu regime (although only marginally), I still struggle with death of innocents. The international community need to intervene, but thats not going to happen, what choice do the people of Palestine have? This is as ugly as it gets.
As Irish people we should not stand with the Israelis we need to be decent & some how support the impoverished from Palestine.
Absolutely correct
Hamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Quote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
ISIS?
Whilst I dont agree with the acts played out by Hamas over this attack, it's telling how swayed the media are in favour of Isreal here.
Look at how much coverage this gets, with rarely any coverage of atrocities carried out by the Isreali state against the Palestinian people.
I'm being careful how I word this when I say that the Isreali state is a terrorist state and what they are doing and have been doing to the Palestinian people is a crime against humanity and breaks international law.
The people of Palestine have little options open to them given that Isreal is supported by the US on the main.
Option 1: do nothing. Accept the reality that they are 2nd class citizens with no rights being held in an open prison, living in poverty and fear with little access to health care and education.
Option 2: Try to leave - but the Isreali state won't allow them.
Option 3: Fight back - but in the face of a vastly superior force there's no way an all out war can work and will result in many innocent deaths and ultimately a failure.
A lack of options in this way will inevitably lead to periods where the tension builds to a point that is spills over. Hamas seem to be the embodiment of that for the Palestinian people (though I don't know if all Palestinians see them as their protectors). From a military pov, a guerilla war against the Isreali state is the only option. I can see the rationale....bring the atrocities happening in Palestine to the people of Isreal. Generally innocent people. But by attacking them, they might in some way influence the opinions of the Isreali electorate. Those innocent people might take notice of what is happening in Palestine when asking the question, why are Hamas attacking us?
The IRA did it by bombing London.
The British media had to report that to the British people.
Perhaps the thinking is the same here, but I am just surmising.
It doesn't excuse the murder of innocents, but desperate people will do desperate things.
Iran may be in the background influencing the conversation too, but I still feel this is a boiling over of the way Palestinians are being forced to live.
I really don't understand why the Isreali state gets so much international support when they are in blatant breech of International law with the land grabs and disregard for human rights of the Palestinian people.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 10:42:16 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 10:11:14 AMIts a shit hot take from the smartest guy in the Irish Freedom Party
Ha ha! Again, what you deduce, from zero evidence, turns out to be wrong. You're a funny guy, but a waste of time. X
You're not the smartest guy? Jesus the bar was very low so I just made that assumption. Apologies.
Quote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Quote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
US Army maybe?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2023, 11:04:38 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
ISIS?
ISIS is banjaxed.
They want to bring Iraqi militia and Hezbollah into a wider conflagration.
The Iraqis are ready.
It would be a religious war of Muslims versus Jews.
Israel does not want Hezbollah rocketing Tel Aviv so it can't crush Gaza.
The strategic calculations are very complicated. Hamas are much better than they used to be. Much more organised and much more technically accomplished. Israel has to be very careful.
Israel can't hack anything longer than 2 weeks with limited deaths.
Quote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
Quote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
They've been doing it for years....
Seen stuff online about Taliban fighters looking to go over whether or not thats true i dont know
The framing of Palestinians as animals and savages is all about implying that they are not fully human and incapable of managing their own affairs. This is what the Brits did in Ireland in the 19th century and Punch magazine has loads of cartoons demonstrating it :
https://magazine.punch.co.uk/gallery-image/Ireland-Cartoons/G0000tcWkXyP4OHo/I00006SkYAlrcOgU
https://magazine.punch.co.uk/gallery-image/Ireland-Cartoons/G0000tcWkXyP4OHo/I00006SkYAlrcOgU
Quote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
ISIL and Hamas are Sunni so would be natural allies.
Hezbollah are Shia, and any support they give is not to aid the Palestinians, but to destabilise Israel and Saudi Arabia.
To Shia Iran, it is like Yemen, just another front in their proxy war with the Saudis.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgr4zj4qmzmo (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgr4zj4qmzmo)
Irish-Isreali York missing from the music festival.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 12:04:46 PMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
They've been doing it for years....
Seen stuff online about Taliban fighters looking to go over whether or not thats true i dont know
I doubt it. The Taliban are Junior C standard
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 12:20:56 PMThe framing of Palestinians as animals and savages is all about implying that they are not fully human and incapable of managing their own affairs. This is what the Brits did in Ireland in the 19th century and Punch magazine has loads of cartoons demonstrating it :
https://magazine.punch.co.uk/gallery-image/Ireland-Cartoons/G0000tcWkXyP4OHo/I00006SkYAlrcOgU
https://magazine.punch.co.uk/gallery-image/Ireland-Cartoons/G0000tcWkXyP4OHo/I00006SkYAlrcOgU
Well I would say it's about saying they aren't human so when you blow up women and kids you are actually only blowing up vermin and sure who wouldnt exterminate vermin from their home. It's straight out of the Nazi handbook.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2023, 12:38:22 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgr4zj4qmzmo (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgr4zj4qmzmo)
Irish-Isreali York missing from the music festival.
What's a 'York'?
Israel attacks on Gaza. Are they targetting strategic buildings in Gaza or just firing randomly?
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 12:43:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 12:04:46 PMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
They've been doing it for years....
Seen stuff online about Taliban fighters looking to go over whether or not thats true i dont know
I doubt it. The Taliban are Junior C standard
Junior C standard was sufficient enough to fcuk the Yanks and Brits out with their tails between their legs, don't forget.
Quote from: red hander on October 10, 2023, 01:40:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 12:43:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 12:04:46 PMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
They've been doing it for years....
Seen stuff online about Taliban fighters looking to go over whether or not thats true i dont know
I doubt it. The Taliban are Junior C standard
Junior C standard was sufficient enough to fcuk the Yanks and Brits out with their tails between their legs, don't forget.
It was a bit more complex than that
Quote from: red hander on October 10, 2023, 01:40:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 12:43:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 12:04:46 PMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
They've been doing it for years....
Seen stuff online about Taliban fighters looking to go over whether or not thats true i dont know
I doubt it. The Taliban are Junior C standard
Junior C standard was sufficient enough to fcuk the Yanks and Brits out with their tails between their legs, don't forget.
They sent the Russians home too.. Not sure that'll happen as their place at the minute needs sorting out never mind getting involved elsewhere
Quote from: red hander on October 10, 2023, 01:40:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 12:43:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 12:04:46 PMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
They've been doing it for years....
Seen stuff online about Taliban fighters looking to go over whether or not thats true i dont know
I doubt it. The Taliban are Junior C standard
Junior C standard was sufficient enough to fcuk the Yanks and Brits out with their tails between their legs, don't forget.
With a lot of outside interference . Plus Afghanistan is hopelessly divided. They wouldn't win an all Ireland semi final if they were playing Ballygunner.
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 01:52:10 PMQuote from: red hander on October 10, 2023, 01:40:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 12:43:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 12:04:46 PMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
They've been doing it for years....
Seen stuff online about Taliban fighters looking to go over whether or not thats true i dont know
I doubt it. The Taliban are Junior C standard
Junior C standard was sufficient enough to fcuk the Yanks and Brits out with their tails between their legs, don't forget.
With a lot of outside interference . Plus Afghanistan is hopelessly divided. They wouldn't win an all Ireland semi final if they were playing Ballygunner.
I've read some strange and wonderfully random stuff on here. That is definitely well up there!!
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 01:52:10 PMQuote from: red hander on October 10, 2023, 01:40:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 12:43:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 12:04:46 PMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
They've been doing it for years....
Seen stuff online about Taliban fighters looking to go over whether or not thats true i dont know
I doubt it. The Taliban are Junior C standard
Junior C standard was sufficient enough to fcuk the Yanks and Brits out with their tails between their legs, don't forget.
With a lot of outside interference . Plus Afghanistan is hopelessly divided. They wouldn't win an all Ireland semi final if they were playing Ballygunner.
;D Aye, but Ballygunner would finish the game with about eight players still alive
;D
Quote from: red hander on October 10, 2023, 02:02:02 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 01:52:10 PMQuote from: red hander on October 10, 2023, 01:40:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 12:43:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 12:04:46 PMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 12:01:31 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 11:32:58 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
Other terrorist groups other than the IDF do you mean?
Hezbollah, Other Muslim terrorists, Iran, other Muslim states. Who knows. I find it hard to believe Muslims will sit and watch other innocent Muslims being slaughtered.
The body count will be scandalous and we can only watch.
They've been doing it for years....
Seen stuff online about Taliban fighters looking to go over whether or not thats true i dont know
I doubt it. The Taliban are Junior C standard
Junior C standard was sufficient enough to fcuk the Yanks and Brits out with their tails between their legs, don't forget.
With a lot of outside interference . Plus Afghanistan is hopelessly divided. They wouldn't win an all Ireland semi final if they were playing Ballygunner.
;D Aye, but Ballygunner would finish the game with about eight players still alive
Gaza income per head is $1450 .
Israel income per head is $55,000
This is Croppies versus Yeomen or how the Landlord system worked.
The Israelis are fighting to protect their economic privileges.
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 10, 2023, 01:22:06 PMIsrael attacks on Gaza. Are they targetting strategic buildings in Gaza or just firing randomly?
Sure they are using weapons not even permitted to be used in built up area so what do you think?
If they thought there was one Hamas militant in an apartment block full of civilians they blow the whole thing up and claim it was a targeted attack.
Quote from: Itchy on October 10, 2023, 03:28:19 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 10, 2023, 01:22:06 PMIsrael attacks on Gaza. Are they targetting strategic buildings in Gaza or just firing randomly?
Sure they are using weapons not even permitted to be used in built up area so what do you think?
If they thought there was one Hamas militant in an apartment block full of civilians they blow the whole thing up and claim it was a targeted attack.
That's what they are doing and have done, a fish shop on the Shankill road springs to mind
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 11:51:48 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2023, 11:04:38 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
ISIS?
ISIS is banjaxed.
They want to bring Iraqi militia and Hezbollah into a wider conflagration.
The Iraqis are ready.
It would be a religious war of Muslims versus Jews.
Israel does not want Hezbollah rocketing Tel Aviv so it can't crush Gaza.
The strategic calculations are very complicated. Hamas are much better than they used to be. Much more organised and much more technically accomplished. Israel has to be very careful.
Israel can't hack anything longer than 2 weeks with limited deaths.
I never could understand the Egyptians in all of this, a predominantly Muslim country with a land border with Palestine but the Arab Spring shone a lot of light on their complexities.
The Muslim Brotherhood win the election, but good ole uncle Sam and the Israelis couldn't have that and help stage a military coup.. The Egyptian military is heavily funded by the US .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlHIRgfFpTc
Irish people talk about concerns for their kids growing up with anxiety due to covid lockdown. What about these Palestinian kids? In their beds & seconds later they could be melted or shrapnel from their homes right through them. The realities of war are very frightening. Dont know how the western world can support Israel, when they are bombing the bejaysus of ordinary Palestinian civilians.
They are the same western world that has fueled wars, supporting wars and generated trillions of money in providing it..
They don't care as long as its on their doorstep
Quote from: johnnycool on October 10, 2023, 03:59:41 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 11:51:48 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 10, 2023, 11:04:38 AMQuote from: trailer on October 10, 2023, 10:51:23 AMHamas is hoping for a brutal response. Bringing the IDF into the Gaza strip and from there who knows where this war will end. It quite possibly could draw other countries and terrorist groups into the war.
ISIS?
ISIS is banjaxed.
They want to bring Iraqi militia and Hezbollah into a wider conflagration.
The Iraqis are ready.
It would be a religious war of Muslims versus Jews.
Israel does not want Hezbollah rocketing Tel Aviv so it can't crush Gaza.
The strategic calculations are very complicated. Hamas are much better than they used to be. Much more organised and much more technically accomplished. Israel has to be very careful.
Israel can't hack anything longer than 2 weeks with limited deaths.
I never could understand the Egyptians in all of this, a predominantly Muslim country with a land border with Palestine but the Arab Spring shone a lot of light on their complexities.
The Muslim Brotherhood win the election, but good ole uncle Sam and the Israelis couldn't have that and help stage a military coup.. The Egyptian military is heavily funded by the US .
The US, (and others) is run by billionaire corporations . The US government is just there to facilitate these gangsters in plundering, exploiting and basically wrecking any country they chose to, for their own gains.
Democracy is a fairytale.
Kadyrov said he would send fighters but i think hes all talk.
Hamas don't want peace
They were spooked by the Israelis and Saudis making an agreement
https://time.com/6321671/why-hamas-sabotaged-peace-prospects-israel-attack/
Here comes the yank now, he'll have the totally unbiased American view.
The "Israel wants peace" myth ::)
The testimonies emerging from the weekend are horrific. Hamas beheading babies? The testimonies in the days ahead from inside Gaza will be horrific too. Disaster upon disaster for Palestinians.
There is loads of misinformation on twitter. I would be cautious accepting much of what's online until verified.
some examples -
Jamie Lee curtis picture of Israel kids being scared when they were palestinans
Video of dead Israelis were actually Hamas
numerous videos from previous conflicts events video games
accusation of rape without evidence.
I have also seen testimony from Israelis who said hamas let them go a one in which the hamas resistence fighter asked was it OK to have a banana before leaving.
picture of Israeli kids In cages when they were palestinain and weren't current as far as I could tell
it is hard to tell what is accurate and what isn't.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 06:48:45 PMThere is loads of misinformation on twitter. I would be cautious accepting much of what's online until verified.
some examples -
Jamie Lee curtis picture of Israel kids being scared when they were palestinans
Video of dead Israelis were actually Hamas
numerous videos from precious conflicts
accusation of rape without evidence.
I have also seen testimony from Israelis who said hamas let them go a one in which the hamas resistence fighter asked was it OK to have a banana.
picture of Israeli kids I cages when they were palestinain and weren't current as far as I could tell
it is hard to tell what is accurate and what isn't.
I presume the rape accusations are Israeli psy ops
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 06:55:03 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 06:48:45 PMThere is loads of misinformation on twitter. I would be cautious accepting much of what's online until verified.
some examples -
Jamie Lee curtis picture of Israel kids being scared when they were palestinans
Video of dead Israelis were actually Hamas
numerous videos from precious conflicts
accusation of rape without evidence.
I have also seen testimony from Israelis who said hamas let them go a one in which the hamas resistence fighter asked was it OK to have a banana.
picture of Israeli kids I cages when they were palestinain and weren't current as far as I could tell
it is hard to tell what is accurate and what isn't.
I presume the rape accusations are Israeli psy ops
Sure maybe it didn't happen at all. FS.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 07:00:46 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 06:55:03 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 06:48:45 PMThere is loads of misinformation on twitter. I would be cautious accepting much of what's online until verified.
some examples -
Jamie Lee curtis picture of Israel kids being scared when they were palestinans
Video of dead Israelis were actually Hamas
numerous videos from precious conflicts
accusation of rape without evidence.
I have also seen testimony from Israelis who said hamas let them go a one in which the hamas resistence fighter asked was it OK to have a banana.
picture of Israeli kids I cages when they were palestinain and weren't current as far as I could tell
it is hard to tell what is accurate and what isn't.
I presume the rape accusations are Israeli psy ops
Sure maybe it didn't happen at all. FS.
yes, maybe it didn't maybe it did. it is documented that Israelis have raped palestinains going back to the nakba, I shared a link of an Israeli soldier speaking about it, putting palestinans into cages and murdering them. Israelis have murdered babies i. muliple bombardments of Gaza, those images are online and verifiable already. there is a awful loss of life for Israel over the last few days, there has been 75+ loss of life for Palestinians.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 07:08:48 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 07:00:46 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 06:55:03 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 06:48:45 PMThere is loads of misinformation on twitter. I would be cautious accepting much of what's online until verified.
some examples -
Jamie Lee curtis picture of Israel kids being scared when they were palestinans
Video of dead Israelis were actually Hamas
numerous videos from precious conflicts
accusation of rape without evidence.
I have also seen testimony from Israelis who said hamas let them go a one in which the hamas resistence fighter asked was it OK to have a banana.
picture of Israeli kids I cages when they were palestinain and weren't current as far as I could tell
it is hard to tell what is accurate and what isn't.
I presume the rape accusations are Israeli psy ops
Sure maybe it didn't happen at all. FS.
yes, maybe it didn't maybe it did. it is documented that Israelis have raped palestinains going back to the nakba, I shared a link of an Israeli soldier speaking about it, putting palestinans into cages and murdering them. Israelis have murdered babies i. muliple bombardments of Gaza, those images are online and verifiable already. there is a awful loss of life for Israel over the last few days, there has been 75+ loss of life for Palestinians.
All terrible, and I take it you'd condemn them all, be it IDF or Hamas, as war crimes?
Whether it be IDF murdering Palestinians, or the scenes we saw at the weekend like the cold blooded murder of civilians in their cars and at bus stops.
you are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blooded and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:07:00 PMyou are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blood and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
I can assure you I'm thinking for myself and not parroting anybody. Glad you condemn it.
I wouldn't agree the responsibility for the loss of life is entirely the occupiers. No matter how many atrocities Israel is responsible for, the answer is not for Hamas to carry out atrocities. To suggest the Hamas members who murdered civilians bear no responsibility for said deaths is nonsensical.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:29:20 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:07:00 PMyou are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blood and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
I can assure you I'm thinking for myself and not parroting anybody. Glad you condemn it.
I wouldn't agree the responsibility for the loss of life is entirely the occupiers. No matter how many atrocities Israel is responsible for, the answer is not for Hamas to carry out atrocities. To suggest the Hamas members who murdered civilians bear no responsibility for said deaths is nonsensical.
you don't even know you parroting which isn't surprising even when pointed out to you.
there would be no Hamas without Israel and Israeli actions, 2.2m Palestinians wouldn't be caged and no need for resistence..
The latest Israeli Bs is that Hamas beheaded 40 babies. Zionists put the n in cuts.
https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1711730914471092404
How do you know it's bull?
There are reports that Shani Louk is alive but has a serious head injury on twitter and accompanying video by her mother.. hesitant to post this but seems a few difference sources reporting this.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:33:21 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:29:20 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:07:00 PMyou are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blood and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
I can assure you I'm thinking for myself and not parroting anybody. Glad you condemn it.
I wouldn't agree the responsibility for the loss of life is entirely the occupiers. No matter how many atrocities Israel is responsible for, the answer is not for Hamas to carry out atrocities. To suggest the Hamas members who murdered civilians bear no responsibility for said deaths is nonsensical.
you don't even know you parroting which isn't surprising even when pointed out to you.
there would be no Hamas without Israel and Israeli actions, 2.2m Palestinians wouldn't be caged and no need for resistence..
'Resistance' great, and totally justified. Killing babies and unarmed civilians (from either side) unjustifiable and far beyond any talk about whose fault it is.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:53:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:33:21 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:29:20 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:07:00 PMyou are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blood and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
I can assure you I'm thinking for myself and not parroting anybody. Glad you condemn it.
I wouldn't agree the responsibility for the loss of life is entirely the occupiers. No matter how many atrocities Israel is responsible for, the answer is not for Hamas to carry out atrocities. To suggest the Hamas members who murdered civilians bear no responsibility for said deaths is nonsensical.
you don't even know you parroting which isn't surprising even when pointed out to you.
there would be no Hamas without Israel and Israeli actions, 2.2m Palestinians wouldn't be caged and no need for resistence..
'Resistance' great, and totally justified. Killing babies and unarmed civilians (from either side) unjustifiable and far beyond any talk about whose fault it is.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:53:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:33:21 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:29:20 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:07:00 PMyou are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blood and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
I can assure you I'm thinking for myself and not parroting anybody. Glad you condemn it.
I wouldn't agree the responsibility for the loss of life is entirely the occupiers. No matter how many atrocities Israel is responsible for, the answer is not for Hamas to carry out atrocities. To suggest the Hamas members who murdered civilians bear no responsibility for said deaths is nonsensical.
you don't even know you parroting which isn't surprising even when pointed out to you.
there would be no Hamas without Israel and Israeli actions, 2.2m Palestinians wouldn't be caged and no need for resistence..
'Resistance' great, and totally justified. Killing babies and unarmed civilians (from either side) unjustifiable and far beyond any talk about whose fault it is.
so it just happens in a vacuum. you don't think we/someone should try and prevent it happening again and again or is it just better when it's only Palestinians 'dying' slowing and the world can turn a blind eye.
there is occupier and occupied there is fault
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:59:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:53:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:33:21 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:29:20 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:07:00 PMyou are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blood and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
I can assure you I'm thinking for myself and not parroting anybody. Glad you condemn it.
I wouldn't agree the responsibility for the loss of life is entirely the occupiers. No matter how many atrocities Israel is responsible for, the answer is not for Hamas to carry out atrocities. To suggest the Hamas members who murdered civilians bear no responsibility for said deaths is nonsensical.
you don't even know you parroting which isn't surprising even when pointed out to you.
there would be no Hamas without Israel and Israeli actions, 2.2m Palestinians wouldn't be caged and no need for resistence..
'Resistance' great, and totally justified. Killing babies and unarmed civilians (from either side) unjustifiable and far beyond any talk about whose fault it is.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:53:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:33:21 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:29:20 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:07:00 PMyou are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blood and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
I can assure you I'm thinking for myself and not parroting anybody. Glad you condemn it.
I wouldn't agree the responsibility for the loss of life is entirely the occupiers. No matter how many atrocities Israel is responsible for, the answer is not for Hamas to carry out atrocities. To suggest the Hamas members who murdered civilians bear no responsibility for said deaths is nonsensical.
you don't even know you parroting which isn't surprising even when pointed out to you.
there would be no Hamas without Israel and Israeli actions, 2.2m Palestinians wouldn't be caged and no need for resistence..
'Resistance' great, and totally justified. Killing babies and unarmed civilians (from either side) unjustifiable and far beyond any talk about whose fault it is.
so it just happens in a vacuum. you don't think we/someone should try and prevent it happening again and again or is it just better when it's only Palestinians 'dying' slowing and the world can turn a blind eye.
there is occupier and occupied there is fault
I think it's tragic beyond words and most of the world is turning a blind eye. And now some of the big hitters will be even more pro-Israeli. I don't know how to move it forward and that has probably got a lot harder in the last few days. But some of the things that happened were unjustifiable and so bad/bloodthirsty that context is actually irrelevant.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 09:08:02 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:59:09 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:53:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:33:21 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:29:20 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:07:00 PMyou are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blood and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
I can assure you I'm thinking for myself and not parroting anybody. Glad you condemn it.
I wouldn't agree the responsibility for the loss of life is entirely the occupiers. No matter how many atrocities Israel is responsible for, the answer is not for Hamas to carry out atrocities. To suggest the Hamas members who murdered civilians bear no responsibility for said deaths is nonsensical.
you don't even know you parroting which isn't surprising even when pointed out to you.
there would be no Hamas without Israel and Israeli actions, 2.2m Palestinians wouldn't be caged and no need for resistence..
'Resistance' great, and totally justified. Killing babies and unarmed civilians (from either side) unjustifiable and far beyond any talk about whose fault it is.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:53:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:33:21 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 10, 2023, 08:29:20 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 08:07:00 PMyou are parroting the Israeli narrative, look at the language of your posts, the Israeli crimes are abtract and murders but the Palestinians is cold blood and specific. This narrative permeates all your posts.
I dont know how many times I am required to condemn the loss of life, I'll go one further and say the loss of life of combatants and non combatants is truly terrible. war/conflict is a failure of diplomacy.
The responsibility for that loss of life is the occupiers who have carried out numerous and well documented atrocities way beyond what happened last weekend and its enablers who equally in other conflicts have done similar. Yet Hamas and the Palestinians are considered less then human
I can assure you I'm thinking for myself and not parroting anybody. Glad you condemn it.
I wouldn't agree the responsibility for the loss of life is entirely the occupiers. No matter how many atrocities Israel is responsible for, the answer is not for Hamas to carry out atrocities. To suggest the Hamas members who murdered civilians bear no responsibility for said deaths is nonsensical.
you don't even know you parroting which isn't surprising even when pointed out to you.
there would be no Hamas without Israel and Israeli actions, 2.2m Palestinians wouldn't be caged and no need for resistence..
'Resistance' great, and totally justified. Killing babies and unarmed civilians (from either side) unjustifiable and far beyond any talk about whose fault it is.
so it just happens in a vacuum. you don't think we/someone should try and prevent it happening again and again or is it just better when it's only Palestinians 'dying' slowing and the world can turn a blind eye.
there is occupier and occupied there is fault
I think it's tragic beyond words and most of the world is turning a blind eye. And now some of the big hitters will be even more pro-Israeli. I don't know how to move it forward and that has probably got a lot harder in the last few days. But some of the things that happened were unjustifiable and so bad/bloodthirsty that context is actually irrelevant.
I am out after this, wasting my time with an apologist for occupiers. unjustifiable and bloodthirsty things have been committed by the Israelis frequently for 75+ years and they are fully supported by US EU and UK..
Context is never irrelevant in political disputes.
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 09:23:39 PMContext is never irrelevant in political disputes.
That is probably true. I suppose it ultimately comes down to who you feel "more like". Personally, I can't identify w/ the ISIS-like medieval barbarity imposed on people who have a more western-like life-style. I mean, I don't love the Jews, or anything, but I'd probably see more of myself in them than in the Palestinians. Irish people who want to see themselves as victims of history (although they have also reaped the spoils of same) like to identify with the Palestinians. This baffles me. Culturally they are miles away. Obviously, the Jews are far from wonderful, either, but culturally, are just a little bit closer. In the end, you believe what you like. But, having seen what ISIS did, I can certainly believe that Hamas decapitated babies and raped young ones. I suppose Israel's decapitating is a little bit more sophisticated and less primeval...
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:20 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
What he posted is a pile of nonsense-i just went on Twitter and there's other posts from the same Twitter handle using the term "killed" for the victims in Gaza
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:20 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
What he posted is a pile of nonsense-i just went on Twitter and there's other posts from the same Twitter handle using the term "killed" for the victims in Gaza
No doubt you've the Star of David in your bio.
Quote from: general_lee on October 10, 2023, 10:04:15 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:20 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
What he posted is a pile of nonsense-i just went on Twitter and there's other posts from the same Twitter handle using the term "killed" for the victims in Gaza
No doubt you've the Star of David in your bio.
No
I'm just not a gullible idiot
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:20 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
What he posted is a pile of nonsense-i just went on Twitter and there's other posts from the same Twitter handle using the term "killed" for the victims in Gaza
what twitter handle?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 10:10:27 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:20 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
What he posted is a pile of nonsense-i just went on Twitter and there's other posts from the same Twitter handle using the term "killed" for the victims in Gaza
what twitter handle?
BBC World Service
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:21:47 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 10:10:27 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:20 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
What he posted is a pile of nonsense-i just went on Twitter and there's other posts from the same Twitter handle using the term "killed" for the victims in Gaza
what twitter handle?
BBC World Service
https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1711340677571674567?t=ectcq28RoZ05zedAY2AmJw&s=19
so the screenshot is accurate and this type of narrative happens regularly
Thought you were out of this, that didn't last long,
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8EDyNvXcAAlu-i?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 10, 2023, 10:30:50 PMThought you were out of this, that didn't last long,
just with sportacus... I dont engage with the racist burdizzo either
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 10:27:44 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:21:47 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 10:10:27 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:20 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
What he posted is a pile of nonsense-i just went on Twitter and there's other posts from the same Twitter handle using the term "killed" for the victims in Gaza
what twitter handle?
BBC World Service
https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1711340677571674567?t=ectcq28RoZ05zedAY2AmJw&s=19
so the screenshot is accurate and this type of narrative happens regularly
Depends on your definition of accurate is
He cherry picked 2 posts from BBC World Service, while deliberately ignoring posts from them that makes nonsense of his "narrative"
Quote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 11:02:56 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 10:27:44 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:21:47 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 10:10:27 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:20 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
What he posted is a pile of nonsense-i just went on Twitter and there's other posts from the same Twitter handle using the term "killed" for the victims in Gaza
what twitter handle?
BBC World Service
https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1711340677571674567?t=ectcq28RoZ05zedAY2AmJw&s=19
so the screenshot is accurate and this type of narrative happens regularly
Depends on your definition of accurate is
He cherry picked 2 posts from BBC World Service, while deliberately ignoring posts from them that makes nonsense of his "narrative"
I only see one post, it is accurate as it was posted and remains unchanged. you added the narrative that by posting 1 (or 2) sceenshots it means every post by BBC world shows western bias.
'Israel has a right to defend itself', even when murdering 260 children, 535 children in 2014.
I don't know how to post pictures
https://x.com/bbcworld/status/1711838470472114668?s=46&t=lH_6NhrWXceXekvYr1XRpg
https://x.com/bbcworld/status/1711722747380818363?s=46&t=lH_6NhrWXceXekvYr1XRpg
Here's another
And another
https://x.com/bbcworld/status/1711659817557794991?s=46&t=lH_6NhrWXceXekvYr1XRpg
And another
https://x.com/bbcworld/status/1711370385906602015?s=46&t=lH_6NhrWXceXekvYr1XRpg
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 11:22:03 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 11:02:56 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 10:27:44 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:21:47 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 10, 2023, 10:10:27 PMQuote from: whitey on October 10, 2023, 10:00:14 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 10, 2023, 09:54:20 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2023, 09:40:31 PM(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391751531_10160870438477410_3988766635074700634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=6a0516&_nc_ohc=Ugm_0xJiAxcAX8G5qjT&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&cb_e2o_trans=t&oh=00_AfB_NeNTGlE2rI9tjKC7h6r_P6VnmkZZ8Y7XLQ62BIn_wA&oe=652A87A1)
Thats disgraceful. Western media is so biased it is unreal.
What he posted is a pile of nonsense-i just went on Twitter and there's other posts from the same Twitter handle using the term "killed" for the victims in Gaza
what twitter handle?
BBC World Service
https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1711340677571674567?t=ectcq28RoZ05zedAY2AmJw&s=19
so the screenshot is accurate and this type of narrative happens regularly
Depends on your definition of accurate is
He cherry picked 2 posts from BBC World Service, while deliberately ignoring posts from them that makes nonsense of his "narrative"
I only see one post, it is accurate as it was posted and remains unchanged. you added the narrative that by posting 1 (or 2) sceenshots it means every post by BBC world shows western bias.
'Israel has a right to defend itself', even when murdering 260 children, 535 children in 2014.
So following that logic, I be accurate in saying that the BBC are showing anti Israeli bias by Tweeting
" In the village of Kfar Aza, whole families are reported to have died in an attack by Hamas"
you decided that showing one example of bias reporting withim the same post from bbc world meant all postings were bias.. nobody suggested that.. the suggestion was then that western media was so bias..
Your example is died in an attack by Hamas vs died in gaza after Israel launched.. strikes
either way I'm not doing a thesis on reporting In western media on the Palestine
suella bravermann says waving palestine flag maybe a criminal offence will those waving it in northern ireland be arrested.
Quote from: Eire90 on October 11, 2023, 12:13:58 AMsuella bravermann says waving palestine flag maybe a criminal offence will those waving it in northern ireland be arrested.
I'd say you'll see twice as many go up
Now the Israelis have started bombing the old border crossing to Egypt, after telling the Palestinians to flee to Egypt. This is nothing but a genocide by a crowd of murdering bastards.
https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1711865833121521939?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1711865833121521939%7Ctwgr%5E0011b0632c9fa39853194726d3401f9daa4a4e56%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fisrael-palestine-discussion-post-respectfully.438643%2Fpage-285
Nice bunch of lads
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 11, 2023, 12:46:17 AMhttps://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1711865833121521939?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1711865833121521939%7Ctwgr%5E0011b0632c9fa39853194726d3401f9daa4a4e56%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fisrael-palestine-discussion-post-respectfully.438643%2Fpage-285
Nice bunch of lads
Question any little detail on the holocaust., Criticise israel , and you're called anti Semitic.
So, what would you call this?
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 11, 2023, 01:01:10 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 11, 2023, 12:46:17 AMhttps://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1711865833121521939?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1711865833121521939%7Ctwgr%5E0011b0632c9fa39853194726d3401f9daa4a4e56%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fisrael-palestine-discussion-post-respectfully.438643%2Fpage-285
Nice bunch of lads
Question any little detail on the holocaust., Criticise israel , and you're called anti Semitic.
So, what would you call this?
That illustrates the problem, there are headcases in America egging on the Israelis and headcases in Iran egging on Hamas. The people actually in Palestine might settle, but these outsiders only want an abstact victory.
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 11, 2023, 01:01:10 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 11, 2023, 12:46:17 AMhttps://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1711865833121521939?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1711865833121521939%7Ctwgr%5E0011b0632c9fa39853194726d3401f9daa4a4e56%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fisrael-palestine-discussion-post-respectfully.438643%2Fpage-285
Nice bunch of lads
Question any little detail on the holocaust., Criticise israel , and you're called anti Semitic.
So, what would you call this?
Imagine you stood there saying we need to wipe Israel off the map. You'd be locked up
The Israeli death toll from Saturday is now 1200.
That is about 1/3 of total death in the Northern conflict.
#WTF
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 11, 2023, 01:01:10 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 11, 2023, 12:46:17 AMhttps://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1711865833121521939?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1711865833121521939%7Ctwgr%5E0011b0632c9fa39853194726d3401f9daa4a4e56%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fisrael-palestine-discussion-post-respectfully.438643%2Fpage-285
Nice bunch of lads
Question any little detail on the holocaust., Criticise israel , and you're called anti Semitic.
So, what would you call this?
Could not agree more re point above.
Absolutely no justification for what Hamas did however the language from senior politicians and senior military figures in the Israeli government is scary stuff. Imagine if Putin of your man in North Korea were saying things like this.
I don't think they will be content until Palestine is wiped off the face of the map ???
There could be genocide of a scale rarely seen before coming here and the world is going to sit by and watch. Horrendous.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 09:44:59 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 09:23:39 PMContext is never irrelevant in political disputes.
That is probably true. I suppose it ultimately comes down to who you feel "more like". Personally, I can't identify w/ the ISIS-like medieval barbarity imposed on people who have a more western-like life-style. I mean, I don't love the Jews, or anything, but I'd probably see more of myself in them than in the Palestinians. Irish people who want to see themselves as victims of history (although they have also reaped the spoils of same) like to identify with the Palestinians. This baffles me. Culturally they are miles away. Obviously, the Jews are far from wonderful, either, but culturally, are just a little bit closer. In the end, you believe what you like. But, having seen what ISIS did, I can certainly believe that Hamas decapitated babies and raped young ones. I suppose Israel's decapitating is a little bit more sophisticated and less primeval...
What a post. A man could write a thesis on you.
We have the perfect storm. Two sides steeped in depravity rarely seen in modern wars. Prepared to murder and kill anyone, infants, children all legitimate targets in their eyes. No side better than the other and neither side prepared to step back from the abyss.
Any decent human being is absolutely appalled by what Hamas has done and now Israel will use it as justification to obliterate Gaza. This could be our 21st century holocaust.
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 08:28:21 AMWe have the perfect storm. Two sides steeped in depravity rarely seen in modern wars. Prepared to murder and kill anyone, infants, children all legitimate targets in their eyes. No side better than the other and neither side prepared to step back from the abyss.
Any decent human being is absolutely appalled by what Hamas has done and now Israel will use it as justification to obliterate Gaza. This could be our 21st century holocaust.
I have a very bad feeling that is what is coming here :(
Quote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 08:15:53 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 10, 2023, 09:44:59 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 10, 2023, 09:23:39 PMContext is never irrelevant in political disputes.
That is probably true. I suppose it ultimately comes down to who you feel "more like". Personally, I can't identify w/ the ISIS-like medieval barbarity imposed on people who have a more western-like life-style. I mean, I don't love the Jews, or anything, but I'd probably see more of myself in them than in the Palestinians. Irish people who want to see themselves as victims of history (although they have also reaped the spoils of same) like to identify with the Palestinians. This baffles me. Culturally they are miles away. Obviously, the Jews are far from wonderful, either, but culturally, are just a little bit closer. In the end, you believe what you like. But, having seen what ISIS did, I can certainly believe that Hamas decapitated babies and raped young ones. I suppose Israel's decapitating is a little bit more sophisticated and less primeval...
What a post. A man could write a thesis on you.
Whatever - but you certainly couldn't.
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 08:28:21 AMWe have the perfect storm. Two sides steeped in depravity rarely seen in modern wars. Prepared to murder and kill anyone, infants, children all legitimate targets in their eyes. No side better than the other and neither side prepared to step back from the abyss.
Any decent human being is absolutely appalled by what Hamas has done and now Israel will use it as justification to obliterate Gaza. This could be our 21st century holocaust.
+1
Whats happening in The Middle east is happening the world over
Countries such as Afghanistan, Central African Republic, Ethiopia, Libya, Mali, Somalia, South Sudan, and Syria are all currently experiencing civil wars, resulting in significant casualties and displacement.
Drug wars in South America probably killing as many with absolutely no coverage
The worlds fucked or, has this just been the norm for a Millenia or more?
It's more apparent now with so much news being available. It was always f**ked though it does appear a little bit more now.
Imagine the internet during WW2, 1916, the ottoman empire etc etc. It would be buck mental.
Also social medias etc are being weaponised for propaganda etc so that has definitely changed things.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 11, 2023, 07:58:32 AMI don't think they will be content until Palestine is wiped off the face of the map ???
There could be genocide of a scale rarely seen before coming here and the world is going to sit by and watch. Horrendous.
It reminds me of Yugoslavia in the early 90s, only difference then was that the UN were able to go in albeit with limited impact. Here the Israelis unfortunately will be able to do whatever the f@#k they want.
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 08:28:21 AMWe have the perfect storm. Two sides steeped in depravity rarely seen in modern wars. Prepared to murder and kill anyone, infants, children all legitimate targets in their eyes. No side better than the other and neither side prepared to step back from the abyss.
Any decent human being is absolutely appalled by what Hamas has done and now Israel will use it as justification to obliterate Gaza. This could be our 21st century holocaust.
Completely wrong viewpoint and one that continues the israeli are responding to Hamas lie. Israel for 75 years has occupied Palestine. The resistence is responding.
In all wars/conflicts there are inhumane and appalling acts, every nation or group commits them be it the US, Nato, Russia, Ukraine, IRA, Britain etc. Hamas also attacked military bases and the military apparatus, they let some go Israelis and took pows/hostages, they also committed some inhumane and indiscriminate killings, something Israel has done for 75 years with impunity.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 09:30:59 AMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 08:28:21 AMWe have the perfect storm. Two sides steeped in depravity rarely seen in modern wars. Prepared to murder and kill anyone, infants, children all legitimate targets in their eyes. No side better than the other and neither side prepared to step back from the abyss.
Any decent human being is absolutely appalled by what Hamas has done and now Israel will use it as justification to obliterate Gaza. This could be our 21st century holocaust.
Completely wrong viewpoint and one that continues the israeli are responding to Hamas lie. Israel for 75 years has occupied Palestine. The resistence is responding.
In all wars/conflicts there are inhumane and appalling acts, every nation or group commits them be it the US, Nato, Russia, Ukraine, IRA, Britain etc. Hamas also attacked military bases and the military apparatus, they let some go Israelis and took pows/hostages, they also committed some inhumane and indiscriminate killings, something Israel has done for 75 years with impunity.
I can never see justification for these kinds of acts whether it is carpet bombing Gaza or raping and murdering some poor woman. Neither side in this war can claim any sort of moral high ground.
The solution will be achieved via dialogue. We know this from our experience. Violence solves nothing. Both sides must come back from the brink, but I fear the death toll will be in the tens of thousands before that happens.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 11, 2023, 08:41:41 AMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 08:28:21 AMWe have the perfect storm. Two sides steeped in depravity rarely seen in modern wars. Prepared to murder and kill anyone, infants, children all legitimate targets in their eyes. No side better than the other and neither side prepared to step back from the abyss.
Any decent human being is absolutely appalled by what Hamas has done and now Israel will use it as justification to obliterate Gaza. This could be our 21st century holocaust.
I have a very bad feeling that is what is coming here :(
Yes, it's beyond grim. The level of hate is mind blowing. Religion is some cod
Partitioning them was a bad idea in hindsight.
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 09:55:27 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 09:30:59 AMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 08:28:21 AMWe have the perfect storm. Two sides steeped in depravity rarely seen in modern wars. Prepared to murder and kill anyone, infants, children all legitimate targets in their eyes. No side better than the other and neither side prepared to step back from the abyss.
Any decent human being is absolutely appalled by what Hamas has done and now Israel will use it as justification to obliterate Gaza. This could be our 21st century holocaust.
Completely wrong viewpoint and one that continues the israeli are responding to Hamas lie. Israel for 75 years has occupied Palestine. The resistence is responding.
In all wars/conflicts there are inhumane and appalling acts, every nation or group commits them be it the US, Nato, Russia, Ukraine, IRA, Britain etc. Hamas also attacked military bases and the military apparatus, they let some go Israelis and took pows/hostages, they also committed some inhumane and indiscriminate killings, something Israel has done for 75 years with impunity.
I can never see justification for these kinds of acts whether it is carpet bombing Gaza or raping and murdering some poor woman. Neither side in this war can claim any sort of moral high ground.
The solution will be achieved via dialogue. We know this from our experience. Violence solves nothing. Both sides must come back from the brink, but I fear the death toll will be in the tens of thousands before that happens.
No one is justifying it here, not sure why that comes up so much.
The rape accusation has been removed by La times I believeas unsubstantiated, the women I assume you are referring to, latest info is she is alive but critical in a hospital in Gaza. I would treat the rape accusation as I would the fact she is alive with cautioun, there is alot of misinformation out there.
As for moral high ground, there are the occupied/caged and the occupier.
here the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
Quote from: JoG2 on October 11, 2023, 10:15:35 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 11, 2023, 08:41:41 AMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 08:28:21 AMWe have the perfect storm. Two sides steeped in depravity rarely seen in modern wars. Prepared to murder and kill anyone, infants, children all legitimate targets in their eyes. No side better than the other and neither side prepared to step back from the abyss.
Any decent human being is absolutely appalled by what Hamas has done and now Israel will use it as justification to obliterate Gaza. This could be our 21st century holocaust.
I have a very bad feeling that is what is coming here :(
Yes, it's beyond grim. The level of hate is mind blowing. Religion is some cod
Like Yugoslavia in the early 90s.
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 09:55:27 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 09:30:59 AMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 08:28:21 AMWe have the perfect storm. Two sides steeped in depravity rarely seen in modern wars. Prepared to murder and kill anyone, infants, children all legitimate targets in their eyes. No side better than the other and neither side prepared to step back from the abyss.
Any decent human being is absolutely appalled by what Hamas has done and now Israel will use it as justification to obliterate Gaza. This could be our 21st century holocaust.
Completely wrong viewpoint and one that continues the israeli are responding to Hamas lie. Israel for 75 years has occupied Palestine. The resistence is responding.
In all wars/conflicts there are inhumane and appalling acts, every nation or group commits them be it the US, Nato, Russia, Ukraine, IRA, Britain etc. Hamas also attacked military bases and the military apparatus, they let some go Israelis and took pows/hostages, they also committed some inhumane and indiscriminate killings, something Israel has done for 75 years with impunity.
I can never see justification for these kinds of acts whether it is carpet bombing Gaza or raping and murdering some poor woman. Neither side in this war can claim any sort of moral high ground.
The solution will be achieved via dialogue. We know this from our experience. Violence solves nothing. Both sides must come back from the brink, but I fear the death toll will be in the tens of thousands before that happens.
Correct, and as always it is the innocent civilians who will bear the brunt. Unfortunately there seems no short term mechanism to bring it back from the brink. The Americans have given the Israeli's a blank cheque. The Israeli government either let it happen or were asleep at the wheel. Either way, they will act now by bulldozing Gaza, and whatever is left there, particularly the youth, will be drawn to Hamas because there's no other road. A depressing downward spiral.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
Seen a good one today, cartoon of an Israeli man poking a Palestinian wasps nest and then running crying to the cameras when the wasps stung him.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
Interesting conversation here on twitter between 2 level headed people (both jews) discussing this tragedy. Well worth a listen.
The Israel Attacks: Beyond the Obvious with @efenigson
The Israel Attacks: Beyond the Obvious (https://twitter.com/BretWeinstein/status/1711891961383452848?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
100% agree with this.
Isreal is a terrorist state and perform terrorist acts daily against the Palestinian people who are held in an open Ghetto in Gaza in particular.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
Would you side with the Tailban
Quote from: theskull1 on October 11, 2023, 11:41:40 AMInteresting conversation here on twitter between 2 level headed people (both jews) discussing this tragedy. Well worth a listen.
The Israel Attacks: Beyond the Obvious with @efenigson
The Israel Attacks: Beyond the Obvious (https://twitter.com/BretWeinstein/status/1711891961383452848?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
before I listen, is she ex israeli intelligent and is she saying this couldn't happen unless Israel let it happen (conspiracy so to speak but you could choose another word to describe it) Are these level headed comments,
We, of course, still know very little about how and why this crisis happened and
If Hamas is guilty of unspeakable barbarism that justifies their destruction--and it clearly is
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 12:07:56 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
Would you side with the Tailban
what have the Taliban got to do with anything?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP4_7_6z2k&pp=ygUZaXNyYWVsIGhhbWFzIHBpZXJzIG1vcmdhbg%3D%3D
Comments from a Palestinian doctor, involved previously with peace talks. One day he believes Netanyahu & cabinet members will stand trial for war crimes. I hope he's right.
MSM particularly in the US very selective & biased in their coverage of events in Israel / Palestine. Loads of false propaganda from the state of Israel on the internet at the moment.
Von der Leyen, always despised her, showing her true nature, she been from a colonial power & all that. Speaking on behalf on Europe, "we stand with Israel" When I lived in the states I would never allow anyone to describe me as european, feel even more justified now.
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 11, 2023, 11:43:23 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
100% agree with this.
Isreal is a terrorist state and perform terrorist acts daily against the Palestinian people who are held in an open Ghetto in Gaza in particular.
100%
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
It isn't that simple though. What is your solution to all this?
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 12:37:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
It isn't that simple though. What is your solution to all this?
Simple is standing with the people who are caged and oppressed and occupied.
I never said there was a simple solution but a start would be to end indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, let humanitarian aid into Gaza, turn back on the water and power, hand control back to Palestinians, end the occupation, the blockade of Gaza, hold Israel accountable for its crime of occupation and apartheid and mass murders it had committed for 75 years, returned to 1967 borders at least, and the then deal with the issues of the right if return of refugees from the nakba and since then
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 12:46:24 PMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 12:37:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
It isn't that simple though. What is your solution to all this?
Simple is standing with the people who are caged and oppressed and occupied.
I never said there was a simple solution but a start would be to end indiscriminate bombing of Gaza, let humanitarian aid into Gaza, turn back on the water and power, hand control back to Palestinians, end the occupation, the blockade of Gaza, hold Israel accountable for its crime of occupation and apartheid and mass murders it had committed for 75 years, returned to 1967 borders at least, and the then deal with the issues of the right if return of refugees from the nakba and since then
You can't hold Israel to account and not Hamas. Everyone must take responsibility for their actions. I agreed entirely with you in regards to Gaza, aid, water, the bombing, everything, but Hamas must do likewise and stop their rocket attacks, and the indiscriminate murder of Jews.
I think both groups are utterly deplorable at this point. I wouldn't support either groups actions.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 12:07:56 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
Would you side with the Tailban
Just on the babies thing, the only source is an Israeli reporter who cited "soldiers" as he source.The IDF has refused to confirm this.
The IDF has refused to confirm this so far.
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1711774401463550026 (https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1711774401463550026)
Trailer if you cannot make coherent and accurate statements, bow out and shut up.
Jews don't all support Israel and Israel doesn't represent all Jews. the resistence is against the occupiers, Israel. The murder of Jews is a narrative used to align palestinian resistence with Nazis who carried out the Holocaust.
Hamas was financially supported and encouraged by Israel to split the Palestinians when it started in the 80s, so not only is the 75 years of massacres and occupation responsible for where we are now, Israel is again directly responsible for the creation of Hamas.
both siding the argument is only required if you support the rights of Palestinians to resist their occupier, look at the World leaders statements over the last few days, there is no both siding they are unequivocally standing with the occupier.
the caging of 2.2m civilians is not enough for 16 years with frequent slaughters, now they cut water, electric (more than normal), hospitals in Gaza are overwhelmed and now don't even have fuel.
Israel is responsible.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 01:08:39 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 12:07:56 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
Would you side with the Tailban
I still don't understand why bring Taliban into a conversation about Israel and Palestine. If you have a point to make come out and make it.
I think we all know given the support Ukraine receives that all occupations and those occupied aren't treated equally.
My point is that, you said it was simple....
So the Tailban were fighting the occupiers are you siding with the Tailban?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
The statement comes before Isreal's actions, so could not condemn them yet.
I would be a bit suspicious of Von Der Leyen, Germans committed genocide on the ancestors of many of the inhabitants of Israel and may over compensate as a result.
This is not black and white and it is no benefit whatsoever for Palestinians if people are too lazy to reflect on the realities of the situation.
And it is not a question only of being occupied, being occupied does not legitimise savagery, the La Mon atrocity here was not justified because we are occupied.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 11, 2023, 01:10:03 PMJust on the babies thing, the only source is an Israeli reporter who cited "soldiers" as he source.The IDF has refused to confirm this.
The IDF has refused to confirm this so far.
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1711774401463550026 (https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1711774401463550026)
I saw an Israeli soldier interviewed on the BBC last night who (in broken English) said "There were babies with their heads cut". What he meant exactly wasn't followed up by the BBC who (so far) haven't mentioned beheadings of babies, though they did report on one woman being beheaded.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 01:34:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
The statement comes before Isreal's actions, so could not condemn them yet.
I would be a bit suspicious of Von Der Leyen, Germans committed genocide on the ancestors of many of the inhabitants of Israel and may over compensate as a result.
This is not black and white and it is no benefit whatsoever for Palestinians if people are too lazy to reflect on the realities of the situation.
And it is not a question only of being occupied, being occupied does not legitimise savagery, the La Mon atrocity here was not justified because we are occupied.
what are you on about 260 children and 205 women murdered in Gaza since the weekend. 38 children were killed up to mid Sept by Israel. this didnt start last weekend. talk about being too lazy to reflect on realities..
Israel legitimises savagery, the US the EU and the UK do, they actively support it.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 11, 2023, 01:10:03 PMJust on the babies thing, the only source is an Israeli reporter who cited "soldiers" as he source.The IDF has refused to confirm this.
The IDF has refused to confirm this so far.
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1711774401463550026 (https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1711774401463550026)
All the right wing English papers ran with the 40 babies story and I saw it on Italian TV too but it came from the same place as the rape narrative. There is a lot of gaslighting coming from Israel. As Winston Churchill is alleged to have said about WW2, "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on". And that was before the social media echo chambers.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 11, 2023, 11:16:54 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
Seen a good one today, cartoon of an Israeli man poking a Palestinian wasps nest and then running crying to the cameras when the wasps stung him.
The next one should show the Israeli man push a grenade into the wasps nest as he has it on good authority that the wasp that stung him is inside.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 01:41:52 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 01:34:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
The statement comes before Isreal's actions, so could not condemn them yet.
I would be a bit suspicious of Von Der Leyen, Germans committed genocide on the ancestors of many of the inhabitants of Israel and may over compensate as a result.
This is not black and white and it is no benefit whatsoever for Palestinians if people are too lazy to reflect on the realities of the situation.
And it is not a question only of being occupied, being occupied does not legitimise savagery, the La Mon atrocity here was not justified because we are occupied.
what are you on about 260 children and 205 women murdered in Gaza since the weekend. 38 children were killed up to mid Sept by Israel. this didnt start last weekend. talk about being too lazy to reflect on realities..
Israel legitimises savagery, the US the EU and the UK do, they actively support it.
Whether all the stores coming out are true, there is no doubt that the Hamas attack was savagery.
I am not a great fan of the EU policy, but they are correct that action against Hamas savagery is appropriate, but that response should not itself involve savagery.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 01:54:18 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 01:41:52 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 01:34:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
The statement comes before Isreal's actions, so could not condemn them yet.
I would be a bit suspicious of Von Der Leyen, Germans committed genocide on the ancestors of many of the inhabitants of Israel and may over compensate as a result.
This is not black and white and it is no benefit whatsoever for Palestinians if people are too lazy to reflect on the realities of the situation.
And it is not a question only of being occupied, being occupied does not legitimise savagery, the La Mon atrocity here was not justified because we are occupied.
what are you on about 260 children and 205 women murdered in Gaza since the weekend. 38 children were killed up to mid Sept by Israel. this didnt start last weekend. talk about being too lazy to reflect on realities..
Israel legitimises savagery, the US the EU and the UK do, they actively support it.
Whether all the stores coming out are true, there is no doubt that the Hamas attack was savagery.
I am not a great fan of the EU policy, but they are correct that action against Hamas savagery is appropriate, but that response should not itself involve savagery.
Any comment on the Israeli savagery that has already occurred?
Previous to the Hamas attack.
Or does the window to 'reflect on the realities' only last for 5 days?
The murder of babies is abhorrent and a war crime. There does seem to have been a rush to report beheadings which may or may not have happened, and may in some publications have fed an agenda, but at the end of the day babies being murdered by whatever means, and on whichever side, is horrific and completely unjustifiable.
We can argue all day on here about where to apportion blame, but for me personally there is no cause on earth that can ever justify the above.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 01:19:41 PMTrailer if you cannot make coherent and accurate statements, bow out and shut up.
Jews don't all support Israel and Israel doesn't represent all Jews. the resistence is against the occupiers, Israel. The murder of Jews is a narrative used to align palestinian resistence with Nazis who carried out the Holocaust.
Hamas was financially supported and encouraged by Israel to split the Palestinians when it started in the 80s, so not only is the 75 years of massacres and occupation responsible for where we are now, Israel is again directly responsible for the creation of Hamas.
both siding the argument is only required if you support the rights of Palestinians to resist their occupier, look at the World leaders statements over the last few days, there is no both siding they are unequivocally standing with the occupier.
the caging of 2.2m civilians is not enough for 16 years with frequent slaughters, now they cut water, electric (more than normal), hospitals in Gaza are overwhelmed and now don't even have fuel.
Israel is responsible.
Excuse me? You are not the sole authority on this. Your view is not the truth.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 11, 2023, 02:02:30 PMThe murder of babies is abhorrent and a war crime. There does seem to have been a rush to report beheadings which may or may not have happened, and may in some publications have fed an agenda, but at the end of the day babies being murdered by whatever means, and on whichever side, is horrific and completely unjustifiable.
We can argue all day on here about where to apportion blame, but for me personally there is no cause on earth that can ever justify the above.
100%
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 01:54:18 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 01:41:52 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 01:34:23 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:36:08 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 11:09:56 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 10:33:17 AMhere the head of the EU is doing some justification for murdering Palestinians
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1712026324724773083?t=iZqIhVjGoUF5dYSXLRUpLg&s=19
It is perfectly rational to state the Israel should defend itself, while still having reservations about the manner of the actions that they take.
One characteristic of this issue is people backing either side unconditionally, when all we have is shades of grey.
total and utter bullshit... there is no reversations in the statement about the 'manner' of response, there is no comment on the 75 years of oppression, no comment on the 260 dead children on Gaza, no comment on Palestinian right to defend themselves, no mention of turning off financial support to Israel who acts like terrorists.
side with the occupier or the those occupied.. it is very simple.
The statement comes before Isreal's actions, so could not condemn them yet.
I would be a bit suspicious of Von Der Leyen, Germans committed genocide on the ancestors of many of the inhabitants of Israel and may over compensate as a result.
This is not black and white and it is no benefit whatsoever for Palestinians if people are too lazy to reflect on the realities of the situation.
And it is not a question only of being occupied, being occupied does not legitimise savagery, the La Mon atrocity here was not justified because we are occupied.
what are you on about 260 children and 205 women murdered in Gaza since the weekend. 38 children were killed up to mid Sept by Israel. this didnt start last weekend. talk about being too lazy to reflect on realities..
Israel legitimises savagery, the US the EU and the UK do, they actively support it.
Whether all the stores coming out are true, there is no doubt that the Hamas attack was savagery.
I am not a great fan of the EU policy, but they are correct that action against Hamas savagery is appropriate, but that response should not itself involve savagery.
they have not said that, there is no qualification on standing with Israel. you are peddling nonsense, you ignore or are ignorant of 75 years of oppression and savagery. There is no ask for Israeli and the UK EUU US to both side the argument.. what would you call caging 2.2m people, 1.1m under 18 in Gaza for 16 years, killing 260 children since the weekend, killing over 500 in 2014 in Operation PE and what would you call the government and people who have supported and enabled it
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 02:03:11 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 01:19:41 PMTrailer if you cannot make coherent and accurate statements, bow out and shut up.
Jews don't all support Israel and Israel doesn't represent all Jews. the resistence is against the occupiers, Israel. The murder of Jews is a narrative used to align palestinian resistence with Nazis who carried out the Holocaust.
Hamas was financially supported and encouraged by Israel to split the Palestinians when it started in the 80s, so not only is the 75 years of massacres and occupation responsible for where we are now, Israel is again directly responsible for the creation of Hamas.
both siding the argument is only required if you support the rights of Palestinians to resist their occupier, look at the World leaders statements over the last few days, there is no both siding they are unequivocally standing with the occupier.
the caging of 2.2m civilians is not enough for 16 years with frequent slaughters, now they cut water, electric (more than normal), hospitals in Gaza are overwhelmed and now don't even have fuel.
Israel is responsible.
Excuse me? You are not the sole authority on this. Your view is not the truth.
you were throwing out anti semitic tropes a few days, I am vastly more knowledgeable on this topic than you based on your posts. I never claimed my view is the true, I said your view aren't accurate.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 01:32:48 PMMy point is that, you said it was simple....
So the Tailban were fighting the occupiers are you siding with the Tailban?
If you were in Afghanistan who would you side with ? It's a bit of a stupid question in fairness.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 02:05:47 PMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 02:03:11 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 01:19:41 PMTrailer if you cannot make coherent and accurate statements, bow out and shut up.
Jews don't all support Israel and Israel doesn't represent all Jews. the resistence is against the occupiers, Israel. The murder of Jews is a narrative used to align palestinian resistence with Nazis who carried out the Holocaust.
Hamas was financially supported and encouraged by Israel to split the Palestinians when it started in the 80s, so not only is the 75 years of massacres and occupation responsible for where we are now, Israel is again directly responsible for the creation of Hamas.
both siding the argument is only required if you support the rights of Palestinians to resist their occupier, look at the World leaders statements over the last few days, there is no both siding they are unequivocally standing with the occupier.
the caging of 2.2m civilians is not enough for 16 years with frequent slaughters, now they cut water, electric (more than normal), hospitals in Gaza are overwhelmed and now don't even have fuel.
Israel is responsible.
Excuse me? You are not the sole authority on this. Your view is not the truth.
you were throwing out anti semitic tropes a few days, I am vastly more knowledgeable on this topic than you based on your posts. I never claimed my view is the true, I said your view aren't accurate.
Mentioning the word Jewish anywhere in any sentence appears to be anti semitic now.
We are grateful for your knowledge. Pity it is wasted on a Gaaboard.
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 02:03:41 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 11, 2023, 02:02:30 PMThe murder of babies is abhorrent and a war crime. There does seem to have been a rush to report beheadings which may or may not have happened, and may in some publications have fed an agenda, but at the end of the day babies being murdered by whatever means, and on whichever side, is horrific and completely unjustifiable.
We can argue all day on here about where to apportion blame, but for me personally there is no cause on earth that can ever justify the above.
100%
I haven't seen a shred of evidence I would believe yet on this "killing babies" story. If its true of course its unacceptable. But in the past, almost weekly, I have seen babies and young children murdered by Israel with photographic evidence. I know these babies were brown skined so not as important but still, surely warrants a mention in the EU chambers.
Quote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 02:09:38 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 02:05:47 PMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 02:03:11 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 01:19:41 PMTrailer if you cannot make coherent and accurate statements, bow out and shut up.
Jews don't all support Israel and Israel doesn't represent all Jews. the resistence is against the occupiers, Israel. The murder of Jews is a narrative used to align palestinian resistence with Nazis who carried out the Holocaust.
Hamas was financially supported and encouraged by Israel to split the Palestinians when it started in the 80s, so not only is the 75 years of massacres and occupation responsible for where we are now, Israel is again directly responsible for the creation of Hamas.
both siding the argument is only required if you support the rights of Palestinians to resist their occupier, look at the World leaders statements over the last few days, there is no both siding they are unequivocally standing with the occupier.
the caging of 2.2m civilians is not enough for 16 years with frequent slaughters, now they cut water, electric (more than normal), hospitals in Gaza are overwhelmed and now don't even have fuel.
Israel is responsible.
Excuse me? You are not the sole authority on this. Your view is not the truth.
you were throwing out anti semitic tropes a few days, I am vastly more knowledgeable on this topic than you based on your posts. I never claimed my view is the true, I said your view aren't accurate.
Mentioning the word Jewish anywhere in any sentence appears to be anti semitic now.
We are grateful for your knowledge. Pity it is wasted on a Gaaboard.
no, anti semitic tropes are anti semitic tropes. excuse it, if it makes you feel better.
Hopefully some find my contribution useful, as I said based on your posts im more knowledgeable than you. I didn't ask anyone for gratitude.
Quote from: seafoid on October 11, 2023, 02:06:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 01:32:48 PMMy point is that, you said it was simple....
So the Tailban were fighting the occupiers are you siding with the Tailban?
If you were in Afghanistan who would you side with ? It's a bit of a stupid question in fairness.
Quote from: seafoid on October 11, 2023, 02:06:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 01:32:48 PMMy point is that, you said it was simple....
So the Tailban were fighting the occupiers are you siding with the Tailban?
If you were in Afghanistan who would you side with ? It's a bit of a stupid question in fairness.
Says the one who throws in junior c comments as some sort of analogy to whats happening..
Antisemitism has been bandied about so often that it is virtually meaningless now.
Quote from: seafoid on October 11, 2023, 02:31:45 PMAntisemitism has been bandied about so often that it is virtually meaningless now.
it has been used as a weapon to silence criticism and critics of Israel but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen and I wouldn't agree with it being virtually meaningless.
https://www.wionews.com/world/shani-louk-abducted-from-music-fest-by-hamas-and-paraded-naked-confirmed-alive-by-mother-645181
Short, excellent clip of Daniel Levy calling out the "targeting Hamas" line.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1712048316131795411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1712048316131795411%7Ctwgr%5Ecc39d32b4e165b3b3deb7618f99a80922abfff96%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage57 (https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1712048316131795411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1712048316131795411%7Ctwgr%5Ecc39d32b4e165b3b3deb7618f99a80922abfff96%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage57)
Quote from: seafoid on October 11, 2023, 02:31:45 PMAntisemitism has been bandied about so often that it is virtually meaningless now.
Says the proven and repeated anti-Semite with a decade or more of evidence against him on this board alone. Excuse me if I don't take that comment too seriously.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 11, 2023, 02:50:15 PMShort, excellent clip of Daniel Levy calling out the "targeting Hamas" line.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1712048316131795411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1712048316131795411%7Ctwgr%5Ecc39d32b4e165b3b3deb7618f99a80922abfff96%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage57 (https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1712048316131795411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1712048316131795411%7Ctwgr%5Ecc39d32b4e165b3b3deb7618f99a80922abfff96%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage57)
Really good.
Awful from Keir Starmer.
https://x.com/LBC/status/1712047387902898301?s=20
Quote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 02:14:10 PMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 02:03:41 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 11, 2023, 02:02:30 PMThe murder of babies is abhorrent and a war crime. There does seem to have been a rush to report beheadings which may or may not have happened, and may in some publications have fed an agenda, but at the end of the day babies being murdered by whatever means, and on whichever side, is horrific and completely unjustifiable.
We can argue all day on here about where to apportion blame, but for me personally there is no cause on earth that can ever justify the above.
100%
I haven't seen a shred of evidence I would believe yet on this "killing babies" story. If its true of course its unacceptable. But in the past, almost weekly, I have seen babies and young children murdered by Israel with photographic evidence. I know these babies were brown skined so not as important but still, surely warrants a mention in the EU chambers.
Front page of the UK Times today has a headline about babies getting their throats cut, is that good enough?
The brown skinned babies is a head scratcher, Israelis & Palestinians are both of a similar hue.
Quote from: gallsman on October 11, 2023, 03:15:14 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 11, 2023, 02:31:45 PMAntisemitism has been bandied about so often that it is virtually meaningless now.
Says the proven and repeated anti-Semite with a decade or more of evidence against him on this board alone. Excuse me if I don't take that comment too seriously.
Jews are viciously scapegoated at the end of capital cycles and we are in a capital cycle at the moment. The white majority plutocrats will target Jews just like they did last time in order to distract from themselves. The rules have not changed. There are 2 big drivers of future scapegoating. Israeli behaviour and Jewish financial power .
You don't give a flying f**k about ordinary Jews. You just stir shit.
So excuse me if I don't care about your point of view.
Disgraceful from Starmer.
We don't want to step away from international law, but cutting off food, power and water to an entire civilian group is within Israel's rights? What a tosser.
Starmer playing to the right wing there. Can't put a foot wrong with them in the next 12 months
Quote from: maddog on October 11, 2023, 03:34:03 PMStarmer playing to the right wing there. Can't put a foot wrong with them in the next 12 months
Licking Murdocks hole, that one!
Quote from: bennydorano on October 11, 2023, 03:26:33 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 02:14:10 PMQuote from: trailer on October 11, 2023, 02:03:41 PMQuote from: Sportacus on October 11, 2023, 02:02:30 PMThe murder of babies is abhorrent and a war crime. There does seem to have been a rush to report beheadings which may or may not have happened, and may in some publications have fed an agenda, but at the end of the day babies being murdered by whatever means, and on whichever side, is horrific and completely unjustifiable.
We can argue all day on here about where to apportion blame, but for me personally there is no cause on earth that can ever justify the above.
100%
I haven't seen a shred of evidence I would believe yet on this "killing babies" story. If its true of course its unacceptable. But in the past, almost weekly, I have seen babies and young children murdered by Israel with photographic evidence. I know these babies were brown skined so not as important but still, surely warrants a mention in the EU chambers.
Front page of the UK Times today has a headline about babies getting their throats cut, is that good enough?
The brown skinned babies is a head scratcher, Israelis & Palestinians are both of a similar hue.
Oh then I take it all back, a newspaper in the UK has it as a headline.
Quote from: seafoid on October 11, 2023, 03:28:32 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 11, 2023, 03:15:14 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 11, 2023, 02:31:45 PMAntisemitism has been bandied about so often that it is virtually meaningless now.
Says the proven and repeated anti-Semite with a decade or more of evidence against him on this board alone. Excuse me if I don't take that comment too seriously.
Jews are viciously scapegoated at the end of capital cycles and we are in a capital cycle at the moment. The white majority plutocrats will target Jews just like they did last time in order to distract from themselves. The rules have not changed. There are 2 big drivers of future scapegoating. Israeli behaviour and Jewish financial power .
You don't give a flying f**k about ordinary Jews. You just stir shit.
So excuse me if I don't care about your point of view.
As opposed to you spending your life on twitter and copying and pasting any half assed article or commentary you find vaguely interesting and making some comparison to Roscommon junior B hurling championship match in 1974 ;D ;D ;D
Clown.
looks like israeli border had been breached from Lebanon, unsure if its Hezbollah... alot of twitter activity but could just be all copy and paste!!
edit - rolling back has started that it was drones not Hezbollah
Quote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 04:33:27 PMOh then I take it all back, a newspaper in the UK has it as a headline.
Mainstream media? Boooooo!!!!
Lads on the gaaboard suggesting Hamas attack was essentially a false flag operation to enable Israel to get away with genocide? Yayyyyy!!!!
Quote from: gallsman on October 11, 2023, 04:36:22 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 04:33:27 PMOh then I take it all back, a newspaper in the UK has it as a headline.
Mainstream media? Boooooo!!!!
Lads on the gaaboard suggesting Hamas attack was essentially a false flag operation to enable Israel to get away with genocide? Yayyyyy!!!!
who suggested that.
there is alot of conflicting information related to the headline in the UK paper, Oren ziv I think outlines it on twitter, there could be truth to it.
Israel had normalized relations with two Muslim countries.
That didn't sit well with Iran who are Hamas main backers
They're the ones behind this
(Funny how they waited until after the $6B was unfrozen before the attack)
Who needs any type of news media when twitter feeds you whatever narrative you want..
Crazy times, was in the car lunchtime and heard this English (twat) Colonel going on one and the other guy was trying to get his points across, totally talked over him at the end, to be fair to the presenter (BBC Ulster) he had both sides on and used the same choice of words for all the killings and portrayed a very balanced view point.
Will probably lose his job in the morning
Quote from: whitey on October 11, 2023, 04:54:49 PMIsrael had normalized relations with two Muslim countries.
That didn't sit well with Iran who are Hamas main backers
They're the ones behind this
(Funny how they waited until after the $6B was unfrozen before the attack)
nothing to do with occupation. clueless...
So:
Whitey is "clueless".
Trailer can "bow out and shut up".
Armaghniac is talking "total and utter bullshit".
Burdizzo is a "racist".
Gallsman "maybe needs some help with comprehension".
And I'm "an apologist for the occupiers".
Whereas we have someone who is "vastly more knowledgeable" on this subject.
I've never seen a thread takeover and a shutting down of opinions quite like this. Trumpesque.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2023, 03:29:31 PMDisgraceful from Starmer.
Indeed.
He's falling in behind the masses to cement his place as the next prime-minister.
I hope to god tories lose the next election, but Starmer is a tory in everything but name and this was discraceful.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 11, 2023, 05:20:45 PMSo:
Whitey is "clueless".
Trailer can "bow out and shut up".
Armaghniac is talking "total and utter bullshit".
Burdizzo is a "racist".
Gallsman "maybe needs some help with comprehension".
And I'm "an apologist for the occupiers".
Whereas we have someone who is "vastly more knowledgeable" on this subject.
I've never seen a thread takeover quite like this. Trumpesque.
I'm glad I provided you with a little work to go back and copy and paste all those quotes.. but still you managed to mis quote... the knowledgeable quote was directed at trailer.
two of those posters have made racist comments, I won't apologise for calling it out. I'd don't usually engage with whitey as I seen enough of his posting on the American threads.
As for the other comments Gallsman was I think a bit reactionary to something he said so a bit harsh ( I went back to read his post, it was condensending and there was a comprehension issue, not harsh at all) armaghniac it that was my opinion of his comments, nothing against him/her... you framing and language is/was what I said it was. hope that clears it up...
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2023, 03:29:31 PMDisgraceful from Starmer.
Hate that bastard even more than the Tories. And I despise them with every fibre of my being.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 11, 2023, 09:07:11 AMIt's more apparent now with so much news being available. It was always f**ked though it does appear a little bit more now.
Imagine the internet during WW2, 1916, the ottoman empire etc etc. It would be buck mental.
Also social medias etc are being weaponised for propaganda etc so that has definitely changed things.
Lord Haw Haw was hanged. Today he'd be working for GB News.
Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian
@manniefabian
The IDF names another 20 soldiers killed during fighting with Palestinian terrorists since Saturday, mostly on the border with the Gaza Strip. The names bring the toll of slain soldiers to 189
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2023, 05:37:34 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 11, 2023, 09:07:11 AMIt's more apparent now with so much news being available. It was always f**ked though it does appear a little bit more now.
Imagine the internet during WW2, 1916, the ottoman empire etc etc. It would be buck mental.
Also social medias etc are being weaponised for propaganda etc so that has definitely changed things.
Lord Haw Haw was hanged. Today he'd be working for GB News.
He was hanged at the end. We haven't got to the end yet. One thing is for sure. Germany won't be leading the dark side this time around. The UK might
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 11, 2023, 05:31:30 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2023, 03:29:31 PMDisgraceful from Starmer.
Indeed.
He's falling in behind the masses to cement his place as the next prime-minister.
I hope to god tories lose the next election, but Starmer is a tory in everything but name and this was discraceful.
Yeah agree with that , especially the bold. That's the end goal . Feck everything and everyone else
Whatever about his views/policies, he is a boring fecker . Hardly a boy that's going to make you get off your ass and vote for him.
Jesus, the Other day they showed part of a speech of his, probably around 20-25 seconds. He was so dull and monotonous, I zoned out after a few seconds.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 05:32:13 PMAs for the other comments Gallsman was I think a bit reactionary to something he said so a bit harsh ( I went back to read his post, it was condensending and there was a comprehension issue, not harsh at all) armaghniac it that was my opinion of his comments, nothing against him/her... you framing and language is/was what I said it was. hope that clears it up...
I said that it was not black and white, this is not a case of supporting your team through thick or thin, it is complex and requires recognition of that. If you disagree with this then argue that it is black and white and less of the abuse.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 05:50:15 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 05:32:13 PMAs for the other comments Gallsman was I think a bit reactionary to something he said so a bit harsh ( I went back to read his post, it was condensending and there was a comprehension issue, not harsh at all) armaghniac it that was my opinion of his comments, nothing against him/her... you framing and language is/was what I said it was. hope that clears it up...
I said that it was not black and white, this is not a case of supporting your team through thick or thin, it is complex and requires recognition of that. If you disagree with this then argue that it is black and white and less of the abuse.
And you can clear it up with me by withdrawing your comment that I'm an apologist for the occupier.
I'll wait.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2023, 05:50:15 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 05:32:13 PMAs for the other comments Gallsman was I think a bit reactionary to something he said so a bit harsh ( I went back to read his post, it was condensending and there was a comprehension issue, not harsh at all) armaghniac it that was my opinion of his comments, nothing against him/her... you framing and language is/was what I said it was. hope that clears it up...
I said that it was not black and white, this is not a case of supporting your team through thick or thin, it is complex and requires recognition of that. If you disagree with this then argue that it is black and white and less of the abuse.
you respsoned to UVDL statement, which was similar to Stamer using the language of the oppressor and being rationale for Israel to defend itself which is basically telling Israel to do what they want, you then said while having reversations about the manner, UVDL provided no such reversations and either has have many other world leader. Keir stamer is being roundly critised for making similar comments.
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1712157736253677671?t=BhG4605ruuWbEmtTTug5hA&s=19
I always wondered, what people meant by a shinner bot on a forum, now I know, f**king know it all, who thinks he knows more than anyone else. This thread going the same way as the America politics forum.
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 11, 2023, 05:31:30 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2023, 03:29:31 PMDisgraceful from Starmer.
Indeed.
He's falling in behind the masses to cement his place as the next prime-minister.
I hope to god tories lose the next election, but Starmer is a tory in everything but name and this was discraceful.
He is working for the man. He won't touch Brexit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv7sZoQkkns
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2023, 06:39:45 PMI always wondered, what people meant by a shinner bot on a forum, now I know, f**king know it all, who thinks he knows more than anyone else. This thread going the same way as the America politics forum.
Is that directed towards me? if it is, can I not share opinions without being referred to as a bot. I said I knew more than one poster who made anti semitic remarks and couldn't even see that when pointed out.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 11, 2023, 06:39:45 PMI always wondered, what people meant by a shinner bot on a forum, now I know, f**king know it all, who thinks he knows more than anyone else. This thread going the same way as the America politics forum.
Heh! Yeah - and more than a little obsessive as well!
Reminder that personal feuds will get both/all parties banned...no exceptions.
Quote from: gallsman on October 11, 2023, 04:36:22 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 04:33:27 PMOh then I take it all back, a newspaper in the UK has it as a headline.
Mainstream media? Boooooo!!!!
Lads on the gaaboard suggesting Hamas attack was essentially a false flag operation to enable Israel to get away with genocide? Yayyyyy!!!!
Papers quoting unnamed sources from the disgraced IDF and treating it like gospel, Yayyyy!
Quote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 08:33:33 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 11, 2023, 04:36:22 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 04:33:27 PMOh then I take it all back, a newspaper in the UK has it as a headline.
Mainstream media? Boooooo!!!!
Lads on the gaaboard suggesting Hamas attack was essentially a false flag operation to enable Israel to get away with genocide? Yayyyyy!!!!
Papers quoting unnamed sources from the disgraced IDF and treating it like gospel, Yayyyy!
Major General Itai Veruv actually.
Imagine being a Brit and having to chose between Starmer or Sunak. Would you like shot in the right knee or the left knee. Near worse than picking between Biden and Trump
290 palestinian children murdered by IDF bombs in 2 days - United Nations (murder my word, the qty of dead kids supplied by UN)
Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesperson Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari said: "hundreds of tons of bombs" have been dropped on the Gaza Strip already and that "the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy."
Quote from: bennydorano on October 11, 2023, 08:53:44 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 08:33:33 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 11, 2023, 04:36:22 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 11, 2023, 04:33:27 PMOh then I take it all back, a newspaper in the UK has it as a headline.
Mainstream media? Boooooo!!!!
Lads on the gaaboard suggesting Hamas attack was essentially a false flag operation to enable Israel to get away with genocide? Yayyyyy!!!!
Papers quoting unnamed sources from the disgraced IDF and treating it like gospel, Yayyyy!
Major General Itai Veruv actually.
The cutting the throats of 40 babies story seems to have orginated from comments made by David Ben Zion to Nicole Zedeck. Itai Veruv spoke of a massacre, I see no reference to what was in the times UK article from him. (not that it's not as harrowing) Netanyahu has repeat it
As Itchy stats hundreds of murdered children in Gaza. The EU, the UK and the US not doing more to resolve the Israeli Apartheid has created the environment in which the murder civilians is almost a daily occurrence.
Reports of a settler and 2 children released, not confirmed, one source seems reliable. video now but unclear if release now or earlier. (now confirmed released saturday)
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1582630271287021570?t=r8j_oS95jxgCYZeFzwMnOQ&s=19
Ursula von der Leyen
@vonderleyen
Russia's attacks against civilian infrastructure, especially electricity, are war crimes.
Cutting off men, women, children of water, electricity and heating with winter coming - these are acts of pure terror.
And we have to call it as such.
The IDF has been asked numerous times to confirm the "40 babies beheaded" story and has been unable to do so. No independent sources have been able to corroborate it.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2023, 10:33:36 PMThe IDF has been asked numerous times to confirm the "40 babies beheaded" story and has been unable to do so. No independent sources have been able to corroborate it.
Joe Biden said he has seen video evidence of that nature.
BBC News - Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432
Strange, doesn't chime with a lot of posts on here.
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1582630271287021570
Ursula von der Leyen @vonderleyen
Russia's attacks against civilian infrastructure, especially electricity, are war crimes.
Cutting off men, women, children of water, electricity and heating with winter coming - these are acts of pure terror.
And we have to call it as such.
3:10 AM · Oct 19, 2022
Quote from: bennydorano on October 11, 2023, 10:46:47 PMBBC News - Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432
Strange, doesn't chime with a lot of posts on here.
Did you read the part of the article where they don't use that language but they have guests on that can use it, it just not their voice. There are worst media outlets for sure.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:01:49 PMQuote from: bennydorano on October 11, 2023, 10:46:47 PMBBC News - Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432
Strange, doesn't chime with a lot of posts on here.
Did you read the part of the article where they don't use that language but they have guests on that can use it, it just not their voice. There are worst media outlets for sure.
You'd prefer censorship then?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 11:08:12 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:01:49 PMQuote from: bennydorano on October 11, 2023, 10:46:47 PMBBC News - Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432
Strange, doesn't chime with a lot of posts on here.
Did you read the part of the article where they don't use that language but they have guests on that can use it, it just not their voice. There are worst media outlets for sure.
You'd prefer censorship then?
did I say that? randomly, saw this on twitter just now, illustrates it better
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_K_Cook/status/1712228693907493319?t=6Emk7Eii08DHvqsk2zzJ2Q&s=19
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 11:08:12 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:01:49 PMQuote from: bennydorano on October 11, 2023, 10:46:47 PMBBC News - Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432
Strange, doesn't chime with a lot of posts on here.
Did you read the part of the article where they don't use that language but they have guests on that can use it, it just not their voice. There are worst media outlets for sure.
You'd prefer censorship then?
It's a valid point MR,and one that everyone should be aware of. There is no doubt about it that the way BBC presents their articles is to favour the state position. Anyone from here should be able to see that easily. There is always plenty of examples relating to the past here.
I read on BBC news yesterday "hundreds killed in Gaza in air strikes after 600 killed in Israel in murderous rampage by Hamas". Now in this instance they have said killed, but you can see the framing in that. Is hundreds killed in air strikes not a murderous rampage as well?
Two Israeli flags removed from town halls in Yorkshire in recent days.
Is this happening throughout Britain or what? The election of Israel flags on government buildings I mean , not the taking down
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 11, 2023, 11:44:18 PMTwo Israeli flags removed from town halls in Yorkshire in recent days.
Is this happening throughout Britain or what? The election of Israel flags on government buildings I mean , not the taking down
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67084936
The UK government has written a letter encouraging governing bodies in sport to "appropriately" mark the attacks in Israel this week with shows of support for the victims.
This is turning in to a major gas lighting operation for the UK government.
Should be good craic at Celtic this weekend so.
Quote from: HiMucker on October 11, 2023, 11:31:58 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2023, 11:08:12 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2023, 11:01:49 PMQuote from: bennydorano on October 11, 2023, 10:46:47 PMBBC News - Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67083432
Strange, doesn't chime with a lot of posts on here.
Did you read the part of the article where they don't use that language but they have guests on that can use it, it just not their voice. There are worst media outlets for sure.
You'd prefer censorship then?
It's a valid point MR,and one that everyone should be aware of. There is no doubt about it that the way BBC presents their articles is to favour the state position. Anyone from here should be able to see that easily. There is always plenty of examples relating to the past here.
I read on BBC news yesterday "hundreds killed in Gaza in air strikes after 600 killed in Israel in murderous rampage by Hamas". Now in this instance they have said killed, but you can see the framing in that. Is hundreds killed in air strikes not a murderous rampage as well?
I dont think they see it easily or even when done within their own posts. There is a blind spot when it comes to dehumanising Palestinians.
https://twitter.com/SeanMac_R/status/1712231585238438310?t=cpkG8oCcA190kl0L48qrYQ&s=19
Starmer
https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1712032335162495397
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/ (https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/)
"We cannot confirm it officially, but you can assume it happened and believe the report,"
Reporters with i24NEWS, an Israeli TV network, were among the first to report the claim, which they attributed to soldiers who recovered the bodies of victims. The Turkish news agency Anadolu first reported on Tuesday that the IDF would not confirm the claim. The IDF later told other outlets that it would not confirm the reports because it is "disrespectful for the dead."
"Specifically about the beheaded babies report, we cannot confirm the amount and specific place and everything like that," the spokesperson added. "There have been so many horrible situations and we don't have time, and we're currently busy fighting and defending our country. We don't have the time to check every report."
New York Times reporter Sheera Frenkel wrote on BlueSky on Wednesday that reporters should approach such claims carefully, try to verify their origin and sourcing, and seek to corroborate them in other ways. "Save the IDF coming out with an official statement (and it hasn't, it's declined to confirm) or someone confirming they saw it with their own eyes," she added, "it's a rumor being widely shared."
https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1711718195025821976
• https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/10/11/michael-mcdowell-israels-right-to-self-defence-must-be-proportionate-lawful-and-humane/
Israel's right to self-defence must be proportionate, lawful and humane
Gaza, already a sump of hopelessness, deprivation and subjection, is about to become a living hell. That will have lasting historical reverberations
•
But Gaza remains what it undeniably is – a terrible place and an inhuman pressure cooker. And Israel jointly shares responsibility and blame for what it is – and what it has become – with neighbouring Arab states that unleashed wars in 1948, 1967 and 1973. Gaza is a sump of hopelessness, deprivation and political subjection to the extremists who control it.
It is contended by many that the rise of Hamas to ascendancy in Gaza was initially encouraged by Israel as occupier, in the short-sighted view that encouraging a local variant of the Muslim Brotherhood would diminish the power, standing and effectiveness of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) and the secularist, left-wing politicians who dominated the Palestine Authority. Splitting the Palestinian political entity in two was seen by some as an opportunity to divide and conquer.
If so, that strategy has dramatically backfired. It has dealt heavy blows on any two-state solution to the Israel/Palestine political conflict. That may suit the hard right in Israel in their strategy of creeping annexation of the West Bank and kettling two million Palestinians under Hamas in Gaza.
Eyewitness footage documented wide-scale destruction in Gaza's Jabalia Refugee Camp after an Israeli airstrike in the area. Video: Reuters
There is a risk that Netanyahu will now unleash such terrible destruction by air and land on Gaza that tens of thousands of innocent humans will die, hundreds of thousands will be made homeless, and millions left with no social infrastructure, water, electricity, sewage, gas or access to food or health facilities. Reduction of millions to a living hell of disease and despair.
If that is the response that Netanyahu thinks will "echo across the generations", all of Israel's western supporters will share the blame if they allow it to happen.
US president Joe Biden should wake up to what he is watching. Netanyahu's vengeance has the capacity to critically damage the West in a relatively short time frame. Biden has the lives of tens of thousands of people in his hands and he must take the responsibility if he transfers them into the cupped hands of Netanyahu.
Terrorism depends on horror in the minds of others. It thrives on outrage. It has been said that last weekend was Israel's 9/11. The 2001 terror attacks in the US begat worldwide outrage, sympathy and calls for a "war on terror" by the Bush administration. Who won that war? Is it still ongoing? Can it ever end?
If Hamas deserves to be toppled – and it does – how will reduction of Gaza to stone-age rubble address the long-term security needs of Israel? How will that play across the Islamic world? Who knows how the Saudis and the Gulf states will view the Hamas massacres, or how they will play out if Gaza is razed and many thousands of Palestinians die? Could Israeli-Arab rapprochement survive a war in Gaza that will "echo across generations"?
Europe sat on its hands on the annexation of the West Bank. Those of us in the Seanad who passed the Settlement Goods Bill as a small but important symbolic rejection of the creeping illegal annexation of the West Bank were described by the Israeli government as anti-Semitic.
Ireland must now shout out loud against total war in Gaza. The only response that will avoid further long-term catastrophe is restraint and adherence to international law. Israel's right of self-defence must be proportionate, lawful and humane. That response might echo across the generations.
Michael McDowellGaza StripIsrael
All Zionists interviewed on UK media yesterday repeated the lies about decapitated babies
Hodge beheaded babies
https://twitter.com/BigBillMoon/status/1711829195737690573
Tories and Labour gave Israel carte lanche.
Shapps human animals
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1711996654298050793
Starmer
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1712047387902898301
Thornberry
https://twitter.com/Taj_Ali1/status/1712232617934733354
Regarding the BBC, which 5 live I listen to on way to work and home, and I caught some of radio Ulster yesterday at lunchtime, they have had balanced views from people in Gaza, Israel and humanitarian workers in the area.
I didn't notice any of the terms killed/murdered being used differently from presenters
But you hear what you want to hear in life
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 07:34:03 AMRegarding the BBC, which 5 live I listen to on way to work and home, and I caught some of radio Ulster yesterday at lunchtime, they have had balanced views from people in Gaza, Israel and humanitarian workers in the area.
I didn't notice any of the terms killed/murdered being used differently from presenters
But you hear what you want to hear in life
Case closed
Rachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Seriously Rachel Riley?
Rachel Riley imo is a horrible person, that's as nicely as I can put it. she shared a lot of views/imo lies on Corbyn.
However, you cannot win/should have an argument agruing that 40 babies weren't beheaded or they were beheaded, one dead baby is one too many regardless of how that death occurred (it stomach churning even writing this).
I have said a number of times there is loads of mis information out there but it might only be degree's of mis information, it can have serious consequences but it best to wait for veritable info. were possible.
Just back on the BBC as Riley reminds me, didn't they digitally alter pictures of Jeremy Corbyn too.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 10:56:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Seriously Rachel Riley?
Yeah she's been very outspoken for years in support of Isreal and regularly spouts anti-palestine propaganda.
Too much airtime being given to these pro-isreali mouthpieces who just regurgitate the Isreali state propaganda as fact.
I've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
The people of Palestine have a bleak outlook, in no small part down to the actions of the British since the end of WW2.
The term anti-sematic is thrown out there at anyone who opposes the Israeli state and their actions. That's a despicable view, especially given how Jews suffered in holocaust. It's not anti-Jewish to be anti-Israel.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 11:00:31 AMRachel Riley imo is a horrible person, that's as nicely as I can put it. she shared a lot of views/imo lies on Corbyn.
However, you cannot win/should have an argument agruing that 40 babies weren't beheaded or they were beheaded, one dead baby is one too many regardless of how that death occurred (it stomach churning even writing this).
I have said a number of times there is loads of mis information out there but it might only be degree's of mis information, it can have serious consequences but it best to wait for veritable info. were possible.
Just back on the BBC as Riley reminds me, didn't they digitally alter pictures of Jeremy Corbyn too.
I agree 100%.
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 10:56:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Seriously Rachel Riley?
Yeah she's been very outspoken for years in support of Isreal and regularly spouts anti-palestine propaganda.
Too much airtime being given to these pro-isreali mouthpieces who just regurgitate the Isreali state propaganda as fact.
I've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
The people of Palestine have a bleak outlook, in no small part down to the actions of the British since the end of WW2.
The term anti-sematic is thrown out there at anyone who opposes the Israeli state and their actions. That's a despicable view, especially given how Jews suffered in holocaust. It's not anti-Jewish to be anti-Israel.
100%
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Shes nothing more than a c**k tease, who can count.
Wonder if Mary Lou asked her pals in Hamas about the time they tossed gay people off a roof when she met with them a few years ago
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 12:10:46 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Shes nothing more than a c**k tease, who can count.
You still would
Do the Israelis not see the irony of starving & denying 2.2 million people their basis human rights. Whats their end game, death to all Palestinians. This is a reverse holocaust. Really disgusting stuff, as the leaders of the western world look on & support.
A ceasefire immediately, peace keepers from the UN, with humanitarian aid should be the worlds number 1 priority.
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 12:23:11 PMDo the Israelis not see the irony of starving & denying 2.2 million people their basis human rights. Whats their end game, death to all Palestinians. This is a reverse holocaust. Really disgusting stuff, as the leaders of the western world look on & support.
A ceasefire immediately, peace keepers from the UN, with humanitarian aid should be the worlds number 1 priority.
Just incredible, what played out in history in the 1930s and 1940s and is taught in history books that has disgusted people for decades is once again playing out in front of our eyes.
Has Von Der Lederhosen deleted her Russian tweet from last year yet?
A vile disgusting human being. We're seeing a lot of those lately with their support for Israel.
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 10:56:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Seriously Rachel Riley?
Yeah she's been very outspoken for years in support of Isreal and regularly spouts anti-palestine propaganda.
Too much airtime being given to these pro-isreali mouthpieces who just regurgitate the Isreali state propaganda as fact.
I've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
The people of Palestine have a bleak outlook, in no small part down to the actions of the British since the end of WW2.
The term anti-sematic is thrown out there at anyone who opposes the Israeli state and their actions. That's a despicable view, especially given how Jews suffered in holocaust. It's not anti-Jewish to be anti-Israel.
My point is on Rachel. Who takes her seriously? This is the girl from Countdown? puts numbers and words up on a board? holy f**k the world is fucked if anyone even gives her the time of day never mind quoting her on current affairs.
If you are looking to be pissed off about something/anything you'll find it in twitter, cesspit
Riley is part of a network of pro Israeli gatekeepers who disseminate the latest war lies. They have a really weird predator/victim position.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 01:22:04 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 10:56:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Seriously Rachel Riley?
Yeah she's been very outspoken for years in support of Isreal and regularly spouts anti-palestine propaganda.
Too much airtime being given to these pro-isreali mouthpieces who just regurgitate the Isreali state propaganda as fact.
I've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
The people of Palestine have a bleak outlook, in no small part down to the actions of the British since the end of WW2.
The term anti-sematic is thrown out there at anyone who opposes the Israeli state and their actions. That's a despicable view, especially given how Jews suffered in holocaust. It's not anti-Jewish to be anti-Israel.
My point is on Rachel. Who takes her seriously? This is the girl from Countdown? puts numbers and words up on a board? holy f**k the world is fucked if anyone even gives her the time of day never mind quoting her on current affairs.
If you are looking to be pissed off about something/anything you'll find it in twitter, cesspit
She was one of the main cheerleaders who went after Corbyn and ultimately led to his downfall by sowing the seeds in the red top voters that he was anti-Semitic when he was pointing out the sins of the Zionist Israeli Gov.
The Jewish lobby has a stranglehold on British Politics and Media.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 12, 2023, 01:36:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 01:22:04 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 10:56:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Seriously Rachel Riley?
Yeah she's been very outspoken for years in support of Isreal and regularly spouts anti-palestine propaganda.
Too much airtime being given to these pro-isreali mouthpieces who just regurgitate the Isreali state propaganda as fact.
I've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
The people of Palestine have a bleak outlook, in no small part down to the actions of the British since the end of WW2.
The term anti-sematic is thrown out there at anyone who opposes the Israeli state and their actions. That's a despicable view, especially given how Jews suffered in holocaust. It's not anti-Jewish to be anti-Israel.
My point is on Rachel. Who takes her seriously? This is the girl from Countdown? puts numbers and words up on a board? holy f**k the world is fucked if anyone even gives her the time of day never mind quoting her on current affairs.
If you are looking to be pissed off about something/anything you'll find it in twitter, cesspit
She was one of the main cheerleaders who went after Corbyn and ultimately led to his downfall by sowing the seeds in the red top voters that he was anti-Semitic when he was pointing out the sins of the Zionist Israeli Gov.
The Jewish lobby has a stranglehold on British Politics and Media.
the Israeli/Zionist lobby. you are using anti semitic tropes.
Imo the BOD, Riley, Collier, Baddiel, Tracy oberman, Margaret hodge, Jason Ryan, David Lammy et Al. probably have a reach of over 2/3million on twitter
continually attempt to conflate Anti semitism with anti Zionists
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMI've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
Hamas has not committed the same scale of atrocity because it has not got the capacity, it is not because it is not their policy to do so. It is not analogous to Ukraine, the Ukrainians have no particular wish to invade Russia or exterminate its people and the Russians had no reason for any military action whatsoever in Ukraine.
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 12:23:11 PMDo the Israelis not see the irony of starving & denying 2.2 million people their basis human rights. Whats their end game, death to all Palestinians. This is a reverse holocaust. Really disgusting stuff, as the leaders of the western world look on & support.
A ceasefire immediately, peace keepers from the UN, with humanitarian aid should be the worlds number 1 priority.
Of course many Israelis do, as recent editorials in newspapers etc show. But there is a hard line faction in government. It is an extreme version of what you see in England, the majority in England did not support a macho Brexit but the extremists had the louder voice.
The whole thing is depressing.
At least Varadkar and now Mary Robinson on radio are quite clear about the crimes of cutting off water and she is demanding that Isreal and Hamas both be held to account before the International Criminal court
Quote from: whitey on October 12, 2023, 12:14:21 PMWonder if Mary Lou asked her pals in Hamas about the time they tossed gay people off a roof when she met with them a few years ago
Ive seen this mentioned before. I know Hamas executed one of their commanders because they charged him with having gay sex. More likely he was passing info to Israel and they didnt want that getting out? Is this what youre referring to? Ive seen articles about ISIS throwing gay people of roofs in Libya also
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 01:13:43 PMHas Von Der Lederhosen deleted her Russian tweet from last year yet?
A vile disgusting human being. We're seeing a lot of those lately with their support for Israel.
I have blocked quite a few people on twitter.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2023, 01:45:33 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMI've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
Hamas has not committed the same scale of atrocity because it has not got the capacity, it is not because it is not their policy to do so. It is not analogous to Ukraine, the Ukrainians have no particular wish to invade Russia or exterminate its people and the Russians had no reason for any military action whatsoever in Ukraine.
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 12:23:11 PMDo the Israelis not see the irony of starving & denying 2.2 million people their basis human rights. Whats their end game, death to all Palestinians. This is a reverse holocaust. Really disgusting stuff, as the leaders of the western world look on & support.
A ceasefire immediately, peace keepers from the UN, with humanitarian aid should be the worlds number 1 priority.
Of course many Israelis do, as recent editorials in newspapers etc show. But there is a hard line faction in government. It is an extreme version of what you see in England, the majority in England did not support a macho Brexit but the extremists had the louder voice.
The whole thing is depressing.
At least Varadkar and now Mary Robinson on radio are quite clear about the crimes of cutting off water and she is demanding that Isreal and Hamas both be held to account before the International Criminal court
Wow, what you just wrote is Israel is just doing this as they have a very right wing govt, what accuse are you willing to provide for the other 75 years and 16 years of a blockade on Gaza.
and to top it off you suggest Hamas are just a murderous grp who would commit more atrocities if they could when you have 75 years plus of evidence of Irsaeli atrocities including the funding and creation of Hamas if you like.
If you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 02:05:18 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2023, 01:45:33 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMI've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
Hamas has not committed the same scale of atrocity because it has not got the capacity, it is not because it is not their policy to do so. It is not analogous to Ukraine, the Ukrainians have no particular wish to invade Russia or exterminate its people and the Russians had no reason for any military action whatsoever in Ukraine.
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 12:23:11 PMDo the Israelis not see the irony of starving & denying 2.2 million people their basis human rights. Whats their end game, death to all Palestinians. This is a reverse holocaust. Really disgusting stuff, as the leaders of the western world look on & support.
A ceasefire immediately, peace keepers from the UN, with humanitarian aid should be the worlds number 1 priority.
Of course many Israelis do, as recent editorials in newspapers etc show. But there is a hard line faction in government. It is an extreme version of what you see in England, the majority in England did not support a macho Brexit but the extremists had the louder voice.
The whole thing is depressing.
At least Varadkar and now Mary Robinson on radio are quite clear about the crimes of cutting off water and she is demanding that Isreal and Hamas both be held to account before the International Criminal court
Wow, what you just wrote is Israel is just doing this as they have a very right wing govt, what accuse are you willing to provide for the other 75 years and 16 years of a blockade on Gaza.
and to top it off you suggest Hamas are just a murderous grp who would commit more atrocities if they could when you have 75 years plus of evidence of Irsaeli atrocities including the funding and creation of Hamas if you like.
If you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
Murdering those people at that festival is not the behaviour of a government army. Their leaders should be on trial for war crimes and I hope one day that they are.
I also hope the Netanyahu is equally tried.
Whataboutery is not a defence.
Quote from: trailer on October 12, 2023, 02:10:03 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 02:05:18 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2023, 01:45:33 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMI've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
Hamas has not committed the same scale of atrocity because it has not got the capacity, it is not because it is not their policy to do so. It is not analogous to Ukraine, the Ukrainians have no particular wish to invade Russia or exterminate its people and the Russians had no reason for any military action whatsoever in Ukraine.
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 12:23:11 PMDo the Israelis not see the irony of starving & denying 2.2 million people their basis human rights. Whats their end game, death to all Palestinians. This is a reverse holocaust. Really disgusting stuff, as the leaders of the western world look on & support.
A ceasefire immediately, peace keepers from the UN, with humanitarian aid should be the worlds number 1 priority.
Of course many Israelis do, as recent editorials in newspapers etc show. But there is a hard line faction in government. It is an extreme version of what you see in England, the majority in England did not support a macho Brexit but the extremists had the louder voice.
The whole thing is depressing.
At least Varadkar and now Mary Robinson on radio are quite clear about the crimes of cutting off water and she is demanding that Isreal and Hamas both be held to account before the International Criminal court
Wow, what you just wrote is Israel is just doing this as they have a very right wing govt, what accuse are you willing to provide for the other 75 years and 16 years of a blockade on Gaza.
and to top it off you suggest Hamas are just a murderous grp who would commit more atrocities if they could when you have 75 years plus of evidence of Irsaeli atrocities including the funding and creation of Hamas if you like.
If you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
Murdering those people at that festival is not the behaviour of a government army. Their leaders should be on trial for war crimes and I hope one day that they are.
I also hope the Netanyahu is equally tried.
Whataboutery is not a defence.
It has been the behaviour of govt armies around the world for centuries, it is the behaviour of Israel right now and people would argue Russia right now, the Saudis in Yemen.
In terms of brutality Israeli crimes far outweigh anything Hamas has done. Again to be clear both have committed war crimes.
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 12:23:11 PMDo the Israelis not see the irony of starving & denying 2.2 million people their basis human rights. Whats their end game, death to all Palestinians. This is a reverse holocaust. Really disgusting stuff, as the leaders of the western world look on & support.
A ceasefire immediately, peace keepers from the UN, with humanitarian aid should be the worlds number 1 priority.
Switching off the water is very hard to read any other way than an all out punishment on every Palestinian in Gaza, and completely blows the line that their operations are targeted only at Hamas. It's sickening to see world leaders give them a free pass on it.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 02:05:18 PMIf you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
Hamas may be made peaceful overtures in the past but I have the example of Hamas recent actions. They could have made a useful point by attacking military bases and tearing down the fence, but instead their main objective was killing random civilians at a rock concert.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2023, 02:55:06 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 02:05:18 PMIf you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
Hamas may be made peaceful overtures in the past but I have the example of Hamas recent actions. They could have made a useful point by attacking military bases and tearing down the fence, but instead their main objective was killing random civilians at a rock concert.
Definitely a step change in public opinion in regards to Hamas. Their recent attacks have done nothing to help the Palestinian cause.
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 01:13:43 PMHas Von Der Lederhosen deleted her Russian tweet from last year yet?
A vile disgusting human being. We're seeing a lot of those lately with their support for Israel.
It's a very interesting time to be Irish when you see what is happening in UK politics with the 2 big parties outdoing themselves to service Israel. Ireland was one of 4 countries that prevented the EU from cutting humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. History really matters in situations like now.
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 02:58:34 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 01:13:43 PMHas Von Der Lederhosen deleted her Russian tweet from last year yet?
A vile disgusting human being. We're seeing a lot of those lately with their support for Israel.
It's a very interesting time to be Irish when you see what is happening in UK politics with the 2 big parties outdoing themselves to service Israel. Ireland was one of 4 countries that prevented the EU from cutting humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. History really matters in situations like now.
If the Irish Government had acted like that during the troubles who knows where we'd be now, history really matters..
Quote from: trailer on October 12, 2023, 02:56:32 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2023, 02:55:06 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 02:05:18 PMIf you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
Hamas may be made peaceful overtures in the past but I have the example of Hamas recent actions. They could have made a useful point by attacking military bases and tearing down the fence, but instead their main objective was killing random civilians at a rock concert.
Definitely a step change in public opinion in regards to Hamas. Their recent attacks have done nothing to help the Palestinian cause.
There is absolutly no change, they were perceived as evil before they are still perceived as evil. it easier to dehumanise them, and stay silent on Israel.
Israel could murder with impunity before they still can murder with impunity.
It is yet to be seen if they have done anything for the Palestinian cause but Madrid 88 didn't work, Oslo 93 didn't work, camp david didn't work, caged in gaza didn't work, operation cast lead didn't work, the great march didn't work.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 12, 2023, 02:53:05 PMQuote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 12:23:11 PMDo the Israelis not see the irony of starving & denying 2.2 million people their basis human rights. Whats their end game, death to all Palestinians. This is a reverse holocaust. Really disgusting stuff, as the leaders of the western world look on & support.
A ceasefire immediately, peace keepers from the UN, with humanitarian aid should be the worlds number 1 priority.
Switching off the water is very hard to read any other way than an all out punishment on every Palestinian in Gaza, and completely blows the line that their operations are targeted only at Hamas. It's sickening to see world leaders give them a free pass on it.
The fact that the Israelis can control Palestinian infrastructure, such as water, power, roads really is a major red flag to begin with. This should never happen.
We decide when you eat, drink or leave. If this was a jail in the western world, it would have been outed long ago. Trouble is, Israel consider themselves to be part of the western elite. I always knew it, but us Irish are rubbing our shoulders & hands with dodgy characters from the UK, Europe & US. The hypocrisy of these states is difficult to get your head around.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 02:05:18 PMIf you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
17 years ago and there's not been an election since.
The JP in the last hour has stated it has seen evidence of the kfer Aza massacre.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2023, 03:19:33 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 02:05:18 PMIf you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
17 years ago and there's not been an election since.
Why is that?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 01:44:15 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 12, 2023, 01:36:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 01:22:04 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 10:56:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Seriously Rachel Riley?
Yeah she's been very outspoken for years in support of Isreal and regularly spouts anti-palestine propaganda.
Too much airtime being given to these pro-isreali mouthpieces who just regurgitate the Isreali state propaganda as fact.
I've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
The people of Palestine have a bleak outlook, in no small part down to the actions of the British since the end of WW2.
The term anti-sematic is thrown out there at anyone who opposes the Israeli state and their actions. That's a despicable view, especially given how Jews suffered in holocaust. It's not anti-Jewish to be anti-Israel.
My point is on Rachel. Who takes her seriously? This is the girl from Countdown? puts numbers and words up on a board? holy f**k the world is fucked if anyone even gives her the time of day never mind quoting her on current affairs.
If you are looking to be pissed off about something/anything you'll find it in twitter, cesspit
She was one of the main cheerleaders who went after Corbyn and ultimately led to his downfall by sowing the seeds in the red top voters that he was anti-Semitic when he was pointing out the sins of the Zionist Israeli Gov.
The Jewish lobby has a stranglehold on British Politics and Media.
the Israeli/Zionist lobby. you are using anti semitic tropes.
Imo the BOD, Riley, Collier, Baddiel, Tracy oberman, Margaret hodge, Jason Ryan, David Lammy et Al. probably have a reach of over 2/3million on twitter
continually attempt to conflate Anti semitism with anti Zionists
Not all Jews are Zionists, so how am I using anti semitic tropes or are you proving my point for me?
Have not read any of this thread but just listening to the Nolan Show this morning (I dont know why i was listening to the tube)
Its just really grim and depressing! Hamas had a shocker
It is also hard to not notice the bias:
1200 Israelis dead - similar number of palestenians
All phone in listeners where pro Israel
Its just sad is all im saying
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 03:20:23 PMQuote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2023, 03:19:33 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 02:05:18 PMIf you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
17 years ago and there's not been an election since.
Why is that?
You tell us. You've said you've looked into Hamas.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 12, 2023, 03:44:57 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 01:44:15 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 12, 2023, 01:36:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 01:22:04 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 10:56:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Seriously Rachel Riley?
Yeah she's been very outspoken for years in support of Isreal and regularly spouts anti-palestine propaganda.
Too much airtime being given to these pro-isreali mouthpieces who just regurgitate the Isreali state propaganda as fact.
I've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
The people of Palestine have a bleak outlook, in no small part down to the actions of the British since the end of WW2.
The term anti-sematic is thrown out there at anyone who opposes the Israeli state and their actions. That's a despicable view, especially given how Jews suffered in holocaust. It's not anti-Jewish to be anti-Israel.
My point is on Rachel. Who takes her seriously? This is the girl from Countdown? puts numbers and words up on a board? holy f**k the world is fucked if anyone even gives her the time of day never mind quoting her on current affairs.
If you are looking to be pissed off about something/anything you'll find it in twitter, cesspit
She was one of the main cheerleaders who went after Corbyn and ultimately led to his downfall by sowing the seeds in the red top voters that he was anti-Semitic when he was pointing out the sins of the Zionist Israeli Gov.
The Jewish lobby has a stranglehold on British Politics and Media.
the Israeli/Zionist lobby. you are using anti semitic tropes.
Imo the BOD, Riley, Collier, Baddiel, Tracy oberman, Margaret hodge, Jason Ryan, David Lammy et Al. probably have a reach of over 2/3million on twitter
continually attempt to conflate Anti semitism with anti Zionists
Not all Jews are Zionists, so how am I using anti semitic tropes or are you proving my point for me?
Google it.
When you say that Jews (Jewish lobby) control the govt and Media (stranglehold) its an trope. It the kind on language used in Germany in the 30s etc. to suggest the sneaky jew is pulling the string behind the scenes.
search for Rob Rinder on twitter speaking about sending Jewish kids to school in the UK not knowing they will come home. Language matters, that's his lived experience.
I do not agree with him, but I have had his experience. And while at the end he speaks of peace, his posts and retreats done not carry this same message imo.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2023, 04:02:12 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 03:20:23 PMQuote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2023, 03:19:33 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 02:05:18 PMIf you looked into Hamas a bit more and didn't blindly follow Israeli propaganda/hasbara you would know they won elections in Gaza, offered a 10 year ceasefire but US/eu decide not the right type of democracy for them. I am not trying to paint them as the good guys but in terms of evidence of atrocities, there is far more examples and evidence of Israel committing them.
17 years ago and there's not been an election since.
Why is that?
You tell us. You've said you've looked into Hamas.
I already let you know part of the reason, the EU/UK/US decided it wasn't the right kinda of democracy. I think I remember Jimmy Carter saying it was a fair election.
More recently Abbas and the PA cancelled the 2021 elections, over east Jerusalem voting and israeli permissions. you had 2008-9, 2012, 2014 massacres by the israelis whixh didnt really help and then there is massive amounts of infighting between Fatah and Hamas about how/when/what then elections are for.
And then there is the issue of voting in Israeli elections also.
Israel are full out trying to equate Hamas with ISIS, my understanding is that they are not affiliated and hate each other, I am almost certain isis previously apologised to Israel for rocket fire into Israel about 5/6 years ago.
latest report I saw had an additional 500 palestions killed today, whole families killed by Israel.
Quote from: WT4E on October 12, 2023, 03:48:54 PMHave not read any of this thread but just listening to the Nolan Show this morning (I dont know why i was listening to the tube)
Its just really grim and depressing! Hamas had a shocker
It is also hard to not notice the bias:
1200 Israelis dead - similar number of palestenians
All phone in listeners where pro Israel
Its just sad is all im saying
All these so called Cristians with out a shred of humanity.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 12, 2023, 04:38:39 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 12, 2023, 03:48:54 PMHave not read any of this thread but just listening to the Nolan Show this morning (I dont know why i was listening to the tube)
Its just really grim and depressing! Hamas had a shocker
It is also hard to not notice the bias:
1200 Israelis dead - similar number of palestenians
All phone in listeners where pro Israel
Its just sad is all im saying
All these so called Cristians with out a shred of humanity.
To be fair to Nolan, he did push that mayor or deputy major of Jerusalem on several angles, humanity etc and there was a guy in from the Irish Palestine solidarity and the North London Jewish lady who herself (and many thousands of fellow Jews she was saying) condemn what Israel is doing to Palestine.
the Israelis are now talking about direct rule over Gaza.
They have have no intention of recognising Palestinian humanity.
Quote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 02:58:34 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 01:13:43 PMHas Von Der Lederhosen deleted her Russian tweet from last year yet?
A vile disgusting human being. We're seeing a lot of those lately with their support for Israel.
It's a very interesting time to be Irish when you see what is happening in UK politics with the 2 big parties outdoing themselves to service Israel. Ireland was one of 4 countries that prevented the EU from cutting humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. History really matters in situations like now.
Do you have a source for that Seafoid? Im surpirsed we aren't getting any flack for that.
Quote from: HiMucker on October 12, 2023, 04:56:32 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 02:58:34 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2023, 01:13:43 PMHas Von Der Lederhosen deleted her Russian tweet from last year yet?
A vile disgusting human being. We're seeing a lot of those lately with their support for Israel.
It's a very interesting time to be Irish when you see what is happening in UK politics with the 2 big parties outdoing themselves to service Israel. Ireland was one of 4 countries that prevented the EU from cutting humanitarian aid to the Palestinians. History really matters in situations like now.
Do you have a source for that Seafoid? Im surpirsed we aren't getting any flack for that.
it was ourselves, the Spanish, Danes and Luxembourg. we questioned the legality of what another member state said about cutting aid, not sure which country
https://twitter.com/RoberBrandt/status/1711498248827834461?t=S2UYDmuyPpCXXJBild23xA&s=19
https://twitter.com/intifada/status/1712457359887421798?t=ofGNNBbQL9seN8ikuFebLA&s=19
https://www.reuters.com/world/germany-austria-suspend-bilateral-aid-palestinians-after-hamas-attack-2023-10-09/
It was an EU commissioner, not a member state. Was a major news story like, not that difficult to fact check.
Former PM of Israel
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1712497344376111346?t=x7-XMuKb2HJIKIpU3BmASQ&s=19
I need to find the rest of the sky new broadcast. I'd say shocking but very much an expected response.
full video.
https://news.sky.com/video/israel-hamas-war-next-step-is-to-eradicate-this-nazi-type-hamas-says-former-israeli-pm-naftali-bennet-12983273
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 05:14:40 PMFormer PM of Israel
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1712497344376111346?t=x7-XMuKb2HJIKIpU3BmASQ&s=19
I need to find the rest of the sky new broadcast. I'd say shocking but very much an expected response.
full video.
https://news.sky.com/video/israel-hamas-war-next-step-is-to-eradicate-this-nazi-type-hamas-says-former-israeli-pm-naftali-bennet-12983273
I lasted 2 mins of that interview. Self-awareness bypass
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 05:14:40 PMFormer PM of Israel
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1712497344376111346?t=x7-XMuKb2HJIKIpU3BmASQ&s=19
I need to find the rest of the sky new broadcast. I'd say shocking but very much an expected response.
full video.
https://news.sky.com/video/israel-hamas-war-next-step-is-to-eradicate-this-nazi-type-hamas-says-former-israeli-pm-naftali-bennet-12983273
Scary.
Former defence minister & former prime minister of Israel, says it all. As blinkered as you got, 0% diplomacy. Sounds like a drunk hillbilly.
The journalist took no shite from him. Should probably have cut the bollix off earlier.
This is how Corbyn was removed and replaced by a whore for Zionism
https://youtu.be/Q61Kg7T3Z4Y?si=_xpIdOJTBbB01IYj
Guy on 5 live tonight, an American general of sorts ... different to one who commented during week...
Anyways my god!! The pure drivel that came out of his mouth about wiping out Hamas and how that would be the only way to control the Middle East and create peace!!
Probably served in Vietnam or both times in Afghanistan or Korea maybe, who knows, but surely he hasn't a grip on reality?
How can he not see those actions never worked in the past? Why would they work now?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 07:45:23 PMGuy on 5 live tonight, an American general of sorts ... different to one who commented during week...
Anyways my god!! The pure drivel that came out of his mouth about wiping out Hamas and how that would be the only way to control the Middle East and create peace!!
Probably served in Vietnam or both times in Afghanistan or Korea maybe, who knows, but surely he hasn't a grip on reality?
How can he not see those actions never worked in the past? Why would they work now?
They know they cannot wipe out Hamas, or the Lions Den or PIJ or PFLP, but the status quo has allowed them to keep expanding, keep getting the handouts from the US, keep importing zionists, keep their foot on the neck of all Palestinians with no push back from the US/EU/UK.
I'm sure seeing how the leaders of the west can be just ignore the injustice of occupation in Palestine while pumping billions of arms and finances into another area under occupation probably emboldens them even further.
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2023, 11:42:39 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 10:56:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 12, 2023, 10:20:03 AMRachel Riley has all the latest Israeli fabrications to justify carpet bombing Gaza
https://twitter.com/RachelRileyRR
Seriously Rachel Riley?
Yeah she's been very outspoken for years in support of Isreal and regularly spouts anti-palestine propaganda.
Too much airtime being given to these pro-isreali mouthpieces who just regurgitate the Isreali state propaganda as fact.
I've no doubt Hamas have performed atrocities, but not at the same scale as the Isreali state has against the Palestinian people. There has been a systematic process of ethnic cleansing by Isreal for decades, landgrabbing and murdering, all in contravention to international law.
What does the world expect to happen under those circumstances? Isreal breaking the law, Palestinians suffering under their boot and yet Isreal is backed by the West. People will try to fight back themselves or they will support/elect people who will fight back on their behalf. Not all Palestinians will fully buy into the ethos of Hamas but they will still elect them as they will see them as their protectors. Hamas can only exist whilst the Palestinian people are being treated in this way by Isreal.
Hamas being declare terrorists is like calling the people of Ukraine terrorists for fighting back against a Russian agressor/occupier. I'm sure the Ukrainians have performed despicable acts, but they have the backing of the west (rightly in my opinion) as it's against the Russians. In this case the Isreali's have so much foreign clout that they have the backing of the west even though they are the agressor/occupier.
The people of Palestine have a bleak outlook, in no small part down to the actions of the British since the end of WW2.
The term anti-sematic is thrown out there at anyone who opposes the Israeli state and their actions. That's a despicable view, especially given how Jews suffered in holocaust. It's not anti-Jewish to be anti-Israel.
100%
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2023, 07:45:23 PMGuy on 5 live tonight, an American general of sorts ... different to one who commented during week...
Anyways my god!! The pure drivel that came out of his mouth about wiping out Hamas and how that would be the only way to control the Middle East and create peace!!
Probably served in Vietnam or both times in Afghanistan or Korea maybe, who knows, but surely he hasn't a grip on reality?
How can he not see those actions never worked in the past? Why would they work now?
Aye , wipe out Hamas , while obliterating Gaza at the same time . That ought to create peace , as there will be no Palestinians left
A psychotic shower of murdering b******ds.
The contrast between Israel as victim (Saturday ) and Israel as predator (today) will have been noted across the Middle East. When Israel is a victim the need for international law is paramount. But when Israel is predator and backed by US and UK aircraft carriers there is no law to protect the Palestinians.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 12, 2023, 12:42:55 PMQuote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 12:23:11 PMDo the Israelis not see the irony of starving & denying 2.2 million people their basis human rights. Whats their end game, death to all Palestinians. This is a reverse holocaust. Really disgusting stuff, as the leaders of the western world look on & support.
A ceasefire immediately, peace keepers from the UN, with humanitarian aid should be the worlds number 1 priority.
Just incredible, what played out in history in the 1930s and 1940s and is taught in history books that has disgusted people for decades is once again playing out in front of our eyes.
If any politician dared to make that comparison they'd be cancelled and labelled an anti Semitic Nazi. 100% agree with you though.
How have the Israelians got so much push in America anyway, a Jewish background be lucky to make up 2% of the population, where a Irish descent bound to be at 25%.There seems to be a disproportionate of Jewish descent in govts, Hollywood, etc how?.I didn't see the US give Ireland much heavy backing when we were getting the shit kicked out of us for years with a massive Irish voting background.Bit like Ukraine, they not really diving in head first, seem to get the impression they only got full tilt when the odds are 90% in their favour, as in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. But stand back if its the UK, China, Russia. It's abit like Russia and been the playground bully on a world stage. How Israel ever get in Eurovision for instance? Nearly as bad as letting Australia in.
The Evangelical Christians in the US love Israel. The restoration of Israel is part of the end times prophesies. Of course the way they love the Jews is
"The state of Israel existing means Jesus is coming back. All you Jews are going to hell unless you become Christians. "
HRW posted that white phosphorus ammunition was used by Israel.
https://twitter.com/hrw/status/1712571508818628993?t=3vQ6Weyd3o5lkZ1iDcJqqQ&s=19
Israelis commenting on a Liverpool Fc post, are ending their support as the statement speaks of the loss of innocent life in Israel and Gaza.
The Israeli ambassador to Ireland getting some grilling on prime time.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2023, 09:34:02 PMHow have the Israelians got so much push in America anyway, a Jewish background be lucky to make up 2% of the population, where a Irish descent bound to be at 25%.There seems to be a disproportionate of Jewish descent in govts, Hollywood, etc how?.I didn't see the US give Ireland much heavy backing when we were getting the shit kicked out of us for years with a massive Irish voting background.Bit like Ukraine, they not really diving in head first, seem to get the impression they only got full tilt when the odds are 90% in their favour, as in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. But stand back if its the UK, China, Russia. It's abit like Russia and been the playground bully on a world stage. How Israel ever get in Eurovision for instance? Nearly as bad as letting Australia in.
Money? Might be 2% of the population, but what % of the wealth?
Quote from: burdizzo on October 12, 2023, 10:14:15 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2023, 09:34:02 PMHow have the Israelians got so much push in America anyway, a Jewish background be lucky to make up 2% of the population, where a Irish descent bound to be at 25%.There seems to be a disproportionate of Jewish descent in govts, Hollywood, etc how?.I didn't see the US give Ireland much heavy backing when we were getting the shit kicked out of us for years with a massive Irish voting background.Bit like Ukraine, they not really diving in head first, seem to get the impression they only got full tilt when the odds are 90% in their favour, as in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. But stand back if its the UK, China, Russia. It's abit like Russia and been the playground bully on a world stage. How Israel ever get in Eurovision for instance? Nearly as bad as letting Australia in.
Money? Might be 2% of the population, but what % of the wealth?
Jews are a prominent minority with a strong network. In Syria another minority, the Alawis, are similar. They are both apart from the majority white/Sunni population.
Irish americans are part of the general white population.
Jews tend to get scapegoated when things go very wrong.
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 10:11:18 PMThe Israeli ambassador to Ireland getting some grilling on prime time.
Got her arse handed to her and was clearly rattled. That's because you can defend the indefensible you horrible hoor.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2023, 10:01:22 PMIsraelis commenting on a Liverpool Fc post, are ending their support as the statement speaks of the loss of innocent life in Israel and Gaza.
LOL. Sad dat. Everton posted about bill kenwright being sick and it got took over too so had to turn comments off
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2023, 10:11:18 PMThe Israeli ambassador to Ireland getting some grilling on prime time.
Shoulda been kicked out years ago
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2023, 09:34:02 PMHow have the Israelians got so much push in America anyway, a Jewish background be lucky to make up 2% of the population, where a Irish descent bound to be at 25%.There seems to be a disproportionate of Jewish descent in govts, Hollywood, etc how?.
Jews are overrepresented in certain sectors where knowledge plays a big role. There was a time when Jews weren't allowed to inherit physical property, so they adapted and learned how to pass down knowledge of how to acquire wealth, because nobody could stop them from doing that. This is where the Jewish mercantile tradition came from. It made them very successful and helped them to weather economic storms throughout the ages, but it led to them being scapegoated when they appeared to be doing well while others were struggling.
In the US political system, money buys influence. Hence the strong pro-Israeli lobby. I've often wondered why the Palestinians haven't been able to match it with a lobby of their own, but that'd require backing from a friendly Arab state, of which there aren't many.
QuoteI didn't see the US give Ireland much heavy backing when we were getting the shit kicked out of us for years with a massive Irish voting background.Bit like Ukraine, they not really diving in head first, seem to get the impression they only got full tilt when the odds are 90% in their favour, as in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. But stand back if its the UK, China, Russia. It's abit like Russia and been the playground bully on a world stage.
The Irish influence in DC is huge. For all the talk of a "special relationship" with the UK, it's the Irish that really have the influence in Washington. Thatcher may have been cosy with Reagan, but it was the yanks that got her to grudgingly sign the Anglo Irish Agreement. There's no way she'd have voluntarily given a say in NI's affairs to Garret Fitzgerald. To this day the UK will not be able to cut a bilateral trade deal with the US if the Good Friday Accords are compromised, and this has bipartisan and bicameral support in the House and Senate. Nancy Pelosi has been clear on this.
QuoteHow Israel ever get in Eurovision for instance? Nearly as bad as letting Australia in.
They're part of the European Broadcasting Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Broadcasting_Union).
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2023, 10:58:02 PMJews are overrepresented in certain sectors where knowledge plays a big role.
Interestingly, the Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average IQ score of all ethnic groups.
Ukraine reported 540 child casualties in 18 months of war.
447 Palestinian children in just one day
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2023, 10:58:02 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 12, 2023, 09:34:02 PMHow have the Israelians got so much push in America anyway, a Jewish background be lucky to make up 2% of the population, where a Irish descent bound to be at 25%.There seems to be a disproportionate of Jewish descent in govts, Hollywood, etc how?.
Jews are overrepresented in certain sectors where knowledge plays a big role. There was a time when Jews weren't allowed to inherit physical property, so they adapted and learned how to pass down knowledge of how to acquire wealth, because nobody could stop them from doing that. This is where the Jewish mercantile tradition came from. It made them very successful and helped them to weather economic storms throughout the ages, but it led to them being scapegoated when they appeared to be doing well while others were struggling.
In the US political system, money buys influence. Hence the strong pro-Israeli lobby. I've often wondered why the Palestinians haven't been able to match it with a lobby of their own, but that'd require backing from a friendly Arab state, of which there aren't many.
QuoteI didn't see the US give Ireland much heavy backing when we were getting the shit kicked out of us for years with a massive Irish voting background.Bit like Ukraine, they not really diving in head first, seem to get the impression they only got full tilt when the odds are 90% in their favour, as in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. But stand back if its the UK, China, Russia. It's abit like Russia and been the playground bully on a world stage.
The Irish influence in DC is huge. For all the talk of a "special relationship" with the UK, it's the Irish that really have the influence in Washington. Thatcher may have been cosy with Reagan, but it was the yanks that got her to grudgingly sign the Anglo Irish Agreement. There's no way she'd have voluntarily given a say in NI's affairs to Garret Fitzgerald. To this day the UK will not be able to cut a bilateral trade deal with the US if the Good Friday Accords are compromised, and this has bipartisan and bicameral support in the House and Senate. Nancy Pelosi has been clear on this.
QuoteHow Israel ever get in Eurovision for instance? Nearly as bad as letting Australia in.
They're part of the European Broadcasting Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Broadcasting_Union).
For all the supposed Irish influence, the Yanks never lifted a finger in the middle of the troubles. But they've no issue selling every conceivable weapon possible to Israel. What that tells us is the the Yanks see a strong Israel as strategically important in the middle east, probably to allow them continue to buy oil without any agro from the region. Its all about money and power in yankland.
A certain group of Jews is plugged into power systems. They make things happen.
Eg Wexner was a friend of Epstein...
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/inside-jeffrey-epsteins-decades-long-relationship-with-his-biggest-client
By 1976, The Limited operated 100 stores. Two years later, Wexner risked bankrupting the company when he borrowed $30 million to acquire the logistics company Mast Industries, which operated a dozen factories in Asia and contracted with hundreds of others around the world. The gamble proved to be Wexner's genius move, akin to McDonald's revolutionizing fast food. By controlling production and shipping, Wexner globalized the apparel business.Meister recalled a party in Aspen when Donald Trump walked up to Wexner and said, "Nice to meet you, now how did you get so f**king rich?"By 1986, Wexner ranked sixth on the Forbes 400 list of richest Americans, with a net worth estimated at $1.4 billion
https://www.thejournal.ie/israel-palestine-gaza-evacuation-order-un-6195203-Oct2023
Fair play to Leo & most Irish politicians & commentators, not following the UK, EU, USA pro Israeli/ anti Palestine narrative.
English FA getting some flak for not allowing the Israel flag to light up the wembley arch in whatever game they are playing. Fair play for them for not doing that.
I have noticed a bit of a media backtrack the last couple of days, with a more balanced opinion being shown. Maybe they have realised how this will look after the israelis kill thousands.
Quote from: markl121 on October 13, 2023, 10:18:50 AMI have noticed a bit of a media backtrack the last couple of days, with a more balanced opinion being shown. Maybe they have realised how this will look after the israelis kill thousands.
Yes, I noticed this too. Now that the Hamas attack is largely over, the focus is slowly moving to the Israeli attack which is ongoing. Sky carried a 15 min interview with Humza Yousaf's wife, who is Palestinian, and whose parents are trapped in Gaza having gone to visit a sick family member.
Quote from: markl121 on October 13, 2023, 10:18:50 AMI have noticed a bit of a media backtrack the last couple of days, with a more balanced opinion being shown. Maybe they have realised how this will look after the israelis kill thousands.
The media follows trends, its their business to go with the popular things and if views worldwide are changing they'll follow suit..
Unfortunately that won't help those in Gaza. The sound bites coming from both sides currently means that there will be a stand off, Hamas telling people to stay, Israel telling them to move south! Moving south to where?!
Proper mess
the times picture is Palestinians but the headline is Israel
https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1712762058649796744?t=VuPRRuHpRD1m9PFSVX1LkA&s=19
There is no change from those with influence, the EU/US/UK. Even when commented by the media the message is still mostly retalition, response, proportionally
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:32:26 AMQuote from: markl121 on October 13, 2023, 10:18:50 AMI have noticed a bit of a media backtrack the last couple of days, with a more balanced opinion being shown. Maybe they have realised how this will look after the israelis kill thousands.
The media follows trends, its their business to go with the popular things and if views worldwide are changing they'll follow suit..
Unfortunately that won't help those in Gaza. The sound bites coming from both sides currently means that there will be a stand off, Hamas telling people to stay, Israel telling them to move south! Moving south to where?!
Proper mess
Israel knows they've nowhere to go but will tell everyone post the genocide that they were warned...
There's not much care from Israel in getting those hostages back alive.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 13, 2023, 10:43:02 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:32:26 AMQuote from: markl121 on October 13, 2023, 10:18:50 AMI have noticed a bit of a media backtrack the last couple of days, with a more balanced opinion being shown. Maybe they have realised how this will look after the israelis kill thousands.
The media follows trends, its their business to go with the popular things and if views worldwide are changing they'll follow suit..
Unfortunately that won't help those in Gaza. The sound bites coming from both sides currently means that there will be a stand off, Hamas telling people to stay, Israel telling them to move south! Moving south to where?!
Proper mess
Israel knows they've nowhere to go but will tell everyone post the genocide that they were warned...
There's not much care from Israel in getting those hostages back alive.
Collateral damage, and I'd be worried about the next set of radicalised people that will be sent out to take revenge on countries which allowed this to happen, London New York and the rest that have joined in, will no doubt get a 'touch' in the coming years
Quote from: johnnycool on October 13, 2023, 10:43:02 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:32:26 AMQuote from: markl121 on October 13, 2023, 10:18:50 AMI have noticed a bit of a media backtrack the last couple of days, with a more balanced opinion being shown. Maybe they have realised how this will look after the israelis kill thousands.
The media follows trends, its their business to go with the popular things and if views worldwide are changing they'll follow suit..
Unfortunately that won't help those in Gaza. The sound bites coming from both sides currently means that there will be a stand off, Hamas telling people to stay, Israel telling them to move south! Moving south to where?!
Proper mess
Israel knows they've nowhere to go but will tell everyone post the genocide that they were warned...
There's not much care from Israel in getting those hostages back alive.
Regardless of the fate of the hostages Israel will use it, if they are killed then another excuse to go nuclear on Gazza, if some how they are rescued it will be because Israel went so hard line.
There is no coincidence that this has happened under the most right right wing Gov't that has ever existed in the state. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if intelligence was ignored to create this narrative which allows them to go end of days on the Palestinians like they have always wanted too.
allowing 1200 people or more, and more still when the army go in to try and wipe out Gaza would never be forgiven surely if true? Would be impossible to contain that information without it getting out in todays times surely?
they don't need a narrative, this happens periodically since the nakba in 48. And In between they continue to oppress, degrade. murder, maim, displace, uproot and dehumanise.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 13, 2023, 11:03:46 AMthey don't need a narrative, this happens periodically since the nakba in 48. And In between they continue to oppress, degrade. murder and maim.
This will be on a new level to any of those that have gone before. So they will need some cover for it to the rest of the world.
Quote from: NAG1 on October 13, 2023, 11:08:13 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 13, 2023, 11:03:46 AMthey don't need a narrative, this happens periodically since the nakba in 48. And In between they continue to oppress, degrade. murder and maim.
This will be on a new level to any of those that have gone before. So they will need some cover for it to the rest of the world.
the rest of the world doesn't care, look at their comments so far, look how they have turned a blind eye for 75 plus years. they need no cover, they have impunity.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 13, 2023, 11:03:46 AMthey don't need a narrative, this happens periodically since the nakba in 48. And In between they continue to oppress, degrade. murder, maim, displace, uproot and dehumanise.
100% - its a systematic attempt at extermination, with peaks and troughs to suit
As for Netanyahu, he's that age now this is his last shot at 'greatness' like Putin a complete megalomaniac, with a lust for blood, cut from the same cloth as Hitler
The whole thing is a stain on humanity
Quote from: NAG1 on October 13, 2023, 10:53:36 AMQuote from: johnnycool on October 13, 2023, 10:43:02 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:32:26 AMQuote from: markl121 on October 13, 2023, 10:18:50 AMI have noticed a bit of a media backtrack the last couple of days, with a more balanced opinion being shown. Maybe they have realised how this will look after the israelis kill thousands.
The media follows trends, its their business to go with the popular things and if views worldwide are changing they'll follow suit..
Unfortunately that won't help those in Gaza. The sound bites coming from both sides currently means that there will be a stand off, Hamas telling people to stay, Israel telling them to move south! Moving south to where?!
Proper mess
Israel knows they've nowhere to go but will tell everyone post the genocide that they were warned...
There's not much care from Israel in getting those hostages back alive.
Regardless of the fate of the hostages Israel will use it, if they are killed then another excuse to go nuclear on Gazza, if some how they are rescued it will be because Israel went so hard line.
There is no coincidence that this has happened under the most right right wing Gov't that has ever existed in the state. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if intelligence was ignored to create this narrative which allows them to go end of days on the Palestinians like they have always wanted too.
Without a doubt. Theres no way with the resources their military has that they didn't see this coming
Are we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
Quote from: NAG1 on October 13, 2023, 10:53:36 AMQuote from: johnnycool on October 13, 2023, 10:43:02 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:32:26 AMQuote from: markl121 on October 13, 2023, 10:18:50 AMI have noticed a bit of a media backtrack the last couple of days, with a more balanced opinion being shown. Maybe they have realised how this will look after the israelis kill thousands.
The media follows trends, its their business to go with the popular things and if views worldwide are changing they'll follow suit..
Unfortunately that won't help those in Gaza. The sound bites coming from both sides currently means that there will be a stand off, Hamas telling people to stay, Israel telling them to move south! Moving south to where?!
Proper mess
Israel knows they've nowhere to go but will tell everyone post the genocide that they were warned...
There's not much care from Israel in getting those hostages back alive.
Regardless of the fate of the hostages Israel will use it, if they are killed then another excuse to go nuclear on Gazza, if some how they are rescued it will be because Israel went so hard line.
There is no coincidence that this has happened under the most right right wing Gov't that has ever existed in the state. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if intelligence was ignored to create this narrative which allows them to go end of days on the Palestinians like they have always wanted too.
That was my thinking from the start
Don't know if it was a planned total systems failure by IDF & Mosad. How the people at the festival or settlements like Be eri, can ever forgive the Israeli government / authorities for their brutal slow reaction times is beyond me. Poor unfortunate Israeli citizens were hiding anywhere for 5 to 16 hours waiting for support, while Hamas did as they pleased.
For context the settlement of Be eri is about 105km from Jerusalem, 89 km from Hebron. What were the IDF, local police force at, that they couldn't get to the front line of the attacks much quicker.
Hard to believe a country like Israel, was on such a low alert, almost like they were hibernating.
"Israel has a right to defend itself".
They didn't do much defending of itself when Hamas invaded!!
They're "defending" usually consists of firing missiles into apartment blocks and other offensive actions.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 13, 2023, 01:05:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
So why is the 'connection' so great? Somalia has lost hundreds of thousands of people in a civil war, displaced double that in refuges ..
People probably couldn't give a stuff about them it seems
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 01:20:56 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 13, 2023, 01:05:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
So why is the 'connection' so great? Somalia has lost hundreds of thousands of people in a civil war, displaced double that in refuges ..
People probably couldn't give a stuff about them it seems
Are these genuine questions or an attempt to undermine solidarity and support for Palestinians? as these questions are usually framed to suggest supporters of palestine are anti semitic as they don't care about others.
to answer your question regardless, I have an interest in many different conflicts, this has been ongoing for 75 plus years, also very much due to Israeli massacres every few years it is the media often and as such would be the one I am more familiar with. I think the balance of power aspect and oppression make people take note
I'd have read up on kashmir, apartheid in SA, Serbia/Kosovan, I find Syria hard to understand with all the different factions. I'd have an interest in drug cartels and their impact too.
Maybe the more important question why is the occupation of Ukraine is treated so different by western powers?, that's a rhetorical question.
Nope, you are getting slightly paranoid. I haven't mentioned anti Jews or anything else, no do I hold such views, I'm pretty much a pacifist, having lived in an area which seen plenty of violence which has brought us no further forward in that time and wasted so many lives.
My question is on a discussion board in relation to how one war gets more attention than others where the losses and continued losses are not mentioned noticed or as it seems from lack of interest on here given any concern too.
I know I'm writing this from the comfort of my air conditioned comfortable room, incase that is brought up ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 01:20:56 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 13, 2023, 01:05:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
So why is the 'connection' so great? Somalia has lost hundreds of thousands of people in a civil war, displaced double that in refuges ..
People probably couldn't give a stuff about them it seems
Because it reminds us of our own savage history and because of the religious angle.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 01:55:36 PMNope, you are getting slightly paranoid. I haven't mentioned anti Jews or anything else, no do I hold such views, I'm pretty much a pacifist, having lived in an area which seen plenty of violence which has brought us no further forward in that time and wasted so many lives.
My question is on a discussion board in relation to how one war gets more attention than others where the losses and continued losses are not mentioned noticed or as it seems from lack of interest on here given any concern too.
I know I'm writing this from the comfort of my air conditioned comfortable room, incase that is brought up ;)
not at all, but I hope you can see why I asked the question and hope my answer at least gives you some insight to why people/I support Palestine. I was in my younger days, a member of the IPSM, I have attend dozens of protests over the year (often on my own - as in no one i knew, not i was the only one protesting), my best man (who has little interest in Palestine) spoke of Palestine in his speech about me at my wedding.
there used to be another poster on here from Derry I think, that did way more and was very active, maybe was involved in the flotilla etc.
Was it give her dixie? I think he went out with aid and stuff quite a few times from memory.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 13, 2023, 02:18:31 PMWas it give her dixie? I think he went out with aid and stuff quite a few times from memory.
yes it was
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 13, 2023, 11:44:44 AMQuote from: NAG1 on October 13, 2023, 10:53:36 AMQuote from: johnnycool on October 13, 2023, 10:43:02 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:32:26 AMQuote from: markl121 on October 13, 2023, 10:18:50 AMI have noticed a bit of a media backtrack the last couple of days, with a more balanced opinion being shown. Maybe they have realised how this will look after the israelis kill thousands.
The media follows trends, its their business to go with the popular things and if views worldwide are changing they'll follow suit..
Unfortunately that won't help those in Gaza. The sound bites coming from both sides currently means that there will be a stand off, Hamas telling people to stay, Israel telling them to move south! Moving south to where?!
Proper mess
Israel knows they've nowhere to go but will tell everyone post the genocide that they were warned...
There's not much care from Israel in getting those hostages back alive.
Regardless of the fate of the hostages Israel will use it, if they are killed then another excuse to go nuclear on Gazza, if some how they are rescued it will be because Israel went so hard line.
There is no coincidence that this has happened under the most right right wing Gov't that has ever existed in the state. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if intelligence was ignored to create this narrative which allows them to go end of days on the Palestinians like they have always wanted too.
Without a doubt. Theres no way with the resources their military has that they didn't see this coming
A bit conspiracy here but I believe they let it happen. Gives them the excuse, not that they care really, to try and destroy Gaza once and for all.
Quote from: seafoid on October 13, 2023, 02:12:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 01:20:56 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 13, 2023, 01:05:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
So why is the 'connection' so great? Somalia has lost hundreds of thousands of people in a civil war, displaced double that in refuges ..
People probably couldn't give a stuff about them it seems
Because it reminds us of our own savage history and because of the religious angle.
This is it in a nutshell. It's the similarity between there and here which garners the support it does. It's a different situation than say Somalia which MR mentioned.
As someone else mentioned above I do keep an eye on other wars/events round the world. Also with work I sort of have to
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 09, 2023, 09:38:53 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on October 09, 2023, 11:38:01 AMQuote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 11:15:50 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2023, 10:57:14 AMQuote from: Franko on October 09, 2023, 10:38:56 AMI don't know. But I'm not the one on here pontificating about what they shouldn't do. Maybe you want to have a go at answering the question?
But I'll tell you this truth. If you treat a group of people like subhuman savages, then you shouldn't be wringing hands and acting surprised when they behave in exactly that way.
At no point have I said the Israeli's are better than Hamas and justify the constant attacks, land grabbing, and demolishing homes and everything else..
The thread title is what I'm talking about..
I could talk at length on Israel's atrocities
What should they do? Christ, who knows? There has been better people than the collective on here who have tried and got absolutely nowhere
Meanwhile a list of atrocities continues to be perpetrated against these people on a continuous basis
And you've no idea what they should do, but you're happy to sit back from the comfort of your own home and your only contribution is to tell them where they went wrong
Can you see why that sticks in the craw a bit?
And it's nothing to do with some perceived 'personal vendetta'
PS
The thread title is a great example of propaganda in action
In Ukraine the same thing would be described (accurately) as a counteroffensive...
Fully agree with the last line there. The hypocrisy when it comes to the two situations is shocking
It is madness. Israel should be totally boycotted and shunned like Russia has been over Ukraine.
Yet when a shop does so they get abuse from Israeli supporters online. See the lush shop in Dublin for an example
Peter Beinart on the current situation. As always, a very thoughtful and honest piece.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/peter-beinart-israel-palestine-conflict.htmlhttps://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/peter-beinart-israel-palestine-conflict.html (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/peter-beinart-israel-palestine-conflict.html)
My advice would be to try to make sure that you are accessing sources of information that focus on the humanity of both sides. Try to expose yourself to things that will force you to reckon with the humanity and suffering on both sides. Don't choose. And also try to find voices, both of Palestinians and Israeli Jews, who you feel have a message of common humanity. There are people. There are actually a lot of them. And they're extraordinary. It's just that they are often really disempowered at a moment like this. But I think it's at this moment that their voices are the most important.
Israel has asked 1.1 million people to leave Gaza while it carpet bombs their homes. Egypt told them not to go to Egypt.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-uk-leaders-paving-way-ethnic-cleansing-gaza
"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said that Israel's response will "change the Middle East". Gallant said that Gaza "will never go back to what it was". A former Israeli general said that Israel "must create an unprecedented humanitarian disaster in Gaza", adding that the "ultimate tool" was damage to the water system.
This is apocalyptic talk. Israel's right to self-defence does not extend to the wiping out of entire neighbourhoods, medieval siege, random slaughter of children, or damaging water supplies. Yet western leaders are going along with all of this."
Except for a few including Ireland
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-uk-leaders-paving-way-ethnic-cleansing-gaza
In a heartrending tweet on Wednesday, Palestinian playwright Samah Sabawi noted: "I told my family in #Gaza to get out when I heard reports the US is coordinating a plan to offer safe passage for civilians out of Gaza into Egypt. My aunty said 'Do you guarantee we would be allowed to return?' I couldn't. I know ethnic cleansing when I see it. She refuses to leave. Death or eternal refugeehood. What would you choose?"
I pray that I am wrong, but I fear western leaders are now establishing the political foundation that would leave us complicit in massacres, indiscriminate bombing, and ethnic cleansing. Meanwhile, inflammatory and reckless media reporting is establishing the emotional foundation. Never has the time for statesmanship been more needed.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 13, 2023, 12:44:41 PM"Israel has a right to defend itself".
They didn't do much defending of itself when Hamas invaded!!
They're "defending" usually consists of firing missiles into apartment blocks and other offensive actions.
Thats pretty accurate.
"Destruction not accuracy" in the words of the IDF. If Hamas is a "monster", past & present Israeli governments & defence forces created it.
finkelstein on Israel's plan https://twitter.com/normfinkelstein/status/1711385526534623618
Finkelstein re Gaza https://twitter.com/Louis_Allday/status/1711305933349966150
Ethnic cleaning is the inevitable conclusion of giving political cover to sectarian conflict.
Looking on I can't help but think how lucky we were to get out of our own conflict and into the 21st century finally at peace and a path to self determination. The ethnic cleansing of Ireland over a number of centuries at times would have been equivalent to what is going on now in Palestine.
While we laugh at the loser mentality and dogshit politics, truth is Sammy, Bryson, Jeffrey and their like would love a situation equivalent to whats going on now in Palestine with taigs in the crosshair and nowhere to run. Their forefathers had a chance and only for a very delicately balanced counterinsurgency and a fuckton of good luck did we escape relatively intact.
One of the greatest days in Irish history was when Thatcher didn't die in Brighton as that would have certainly resulted in an amphibious landing within the 6 counties and incredibly harsh reprisals.
One day one of these f**king uber zealots will push the big red button and it'll be over for all of us very quickly, Netanyahu is a serious candidate to do something even more cuntish than he is now and throw a tactical nuke in the mix, he wants his name up in lights for this shit, this is the conclusion of his political lifes work and he has no issue breaking new ground late on
https://philipstephens.substack.com/p/israel-will-not-find-security-in
https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505 (https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505)
Outstanding.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 13, 2023, 02:56:42 PMPeter Beinart on the current situation. As always, a very thoughtful and honest piece.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/peter-beinart-israel-palestine-conflict.htmlhttps://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/peter-beinart-israel-palestine-conflict.html (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/peter-beinart-israel-palestine-conflict.html)
My advice would be to try to make sure that you are accessing sources of information that focus on the humanity of both sides. Try to expose yourself to things that will force you to reckon with the humanity and suffering on both sides. Don't choose. And also try to find voices, both of Palestinians and Israeli Jews, who you feel have a message of common humanity. There are people. There are actually a lot of them. And they're extraordinary. It's just that they are often really disempowered at a moment like this. But I think it's at this moment that their voices are the most important.
Good article.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 01:20:56 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 13, 2023, 01:05:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
So why is the 'connection' so great? Somalia has lost hundreds of thousands of people in a civil war, displaced double that in refuges ..
People probably couldn't give a stuff about them it seems
Israel is an offshoot of western culture. It's basically an American colony in the Middle East and is far and away the biggest recipient of American aid. People in the western world have an interest in it in a way that they don't for other conflicts that they don't feel any connection to. Do you really care if Nagorno Karabakh belongs to Armenia or Azerbaijan?
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/belfast-school-to-be-contacted-by-department-of-education-over-pro-palestine-rally/a401939145.html
The Department of Education has said it will be contacting a Belfast school for "further information" after videos and photographs were shared online of pupils holding a rally in support of Palestinians in Gaza.
Colaiste Feirste, which is the only Irish language speaking secondary school based in Belfast took to the social media website X (formerly Twitter) on Wednesday to share images of pupils holding Palestinian flags with caption 'Tacaionn maid leis an Phalaistin' which roughly translates to 'We Support Palestine'.
The photographs were accompanied by a video of an apparent pupil who gave a speech entirely in Irish where the school reiterated its support for those living in Gaza.
In a statement to this newspaper, a spokesperson for the Department of Education said: "This issue has been drawn to the attention of the Department. We will be contacting the school to obtain further information on the matter."
...
The social media posts were later deleted and are no longer available on the school's social media channel but was later replaced with a screenshot from a video of the pupil who gave the speech with a caption translated from Irish stating: "Some students organised a demonstration for the rights and justice of Palestine yesterday, showing the great humanitarian heart they have and their commitment to the people around the world."
...
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2023, 06:04:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 01:20:56 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 13, 2023, 01:05:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
So why is the 'connection' so great? Somalia has lost hundreds of thousands of people in a civil war, displaced double that in refuges ..
People probably couldn't give a stuff about them it seems
Israel is an offshoot of western culture. It's basically an American colony in the Middle East and is far and away the biggest recipient of American aid. People in the western world have an interest in it in a way that they don't for other conflicts that they don't feel any connection to. Do you really care if Nagorno Karabakh belongs to Armenia or Azerbaijan?
I see one life lost in conflict no different to another. I don't see a hierarchy in these wars, you'd struggle to not get emotional watching the stuff going on in Syria. Especially the doc on the team of rescuers, harrowing
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 07:05:50 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2023, 06:04:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 01:20:56 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 13, 2023, 01:05:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
So why is the 'connection' so great? Somalia has lost hundreds of thousands of people in a civil war, displaced double that in refuges ..
People probably couldn't give a stuff about them it seems
Israel is an offshoot of western culture. It's basically an American colony in the Middle East and is far and away the biggest recipient of American aid. People in the western world have an interest in it in a way that they don't for other conflicts that they don't feel any connection to. Do you really care if Nagorno Karabakh belongs to Armenia or Azerbaijan?
I see one life lost in conflict no different to another. I don't see a hierarchy in these wars, you'd struggle to not get emotional watching the stuff going on in Syria. Especially the doc on the team of rescuers, harrowing
Right. But how much coverage are you going to see of conflicts like Syria or Yemen? It's hard to get emotional about humanitarian disasters if they're kept hidden from you. I was glancing at some news coverage the other night and the Israeli casualties were shown up front, but the strikes on Palestinians were shown from the warplane's own camera or from a distance. This is typical of American coverage. UK outlets like Channel 4 do a somewhat better job of getting in closer to the Palestinian suffering, but it's very hard to do when the Israelis are so indiscriminate in their bombing.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2023, 07:16:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 07:05:50 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2023, 06:04:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 01:20:56 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 13, 2023, 01:05:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
So why is the 'connection' so great? Somalia has lost hundreds of thousands of people in a civil war, displaced double that in refuges ..
People probably couldn't give a stuff about them it seems
Israel is an offshoot of western culture. It's basically an American colony in the Middle East and is far and away the biggest recipient of American aid. People in the western world have an interest in it in a way that they don't for other conflicts that they don't feel any connection to. Do you really care if Nagorno Karabakh belongs to Armenia or Azerbaijan?
I see one life lost in conflict no different to another. I don't see a hierarchy in these wars, you'd struggle to not get emotional watching the stuff going on in Syria. Especially the doc on the team of rescuers, harrowing
Right. But how much coverage are you going to see of conflicts like Syria or Yemen? It's hard to get emotional about humanitarian disasters if they're kept hidden from you. I was glancing at some news coverage the other night and the Israeli casualties were shown up front, but the strikes on Palestinians were shown from the warplane's own camera or from a distance. This is typical of American coverage. UK outlets like Channel 4 do a somewhat better job of getting in closer to the Palestinian suffering, but it's very hard to do when the Israelis are so indiscriminate in their bombing.
Punch in war in Syria to google and you'll find everything on it from all sides. What these people and those in Gaza go through is no different..
Said before, people hear (and see) what they want to
But you have to go out of your way to find out what's going on in Syria. You have to go out of your way to avoid the news in Palestine. That's the difference.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2023, 07:29:10 PMBut you have to go out of your way to find out what's going on in Syria. You have to go out of your way to avoid the news in Palestine. That's the difference.
To be fair what news I get is generally on way to work and on way home...
If you are influenced by the main networks or only concerned with what's happening in one of hundreds of current wars then that's all you'll see.
Last Men in Aleppo... watch this if you haven't already
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 07:20:34 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2023, 07:16:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 07:05:50 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 13, 2023, 06:04:23 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 01:20:56 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 13, 2023, 01:05:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:46:58 AMAre we more vocal/aware about the other war campaigns in other countries as we are for the Palestine cause?
No
So why is the 'connection' so great? Somalia has lost hundreds of thousands of people in a civil war, displaced double that in refuges ..
People probably couldn't give a stuff about them it seems
Israel is an offshoot of western culture. It's basically an American colony in the Middle East and is far and away the biggest recipient of American aid. People in the western world have an interest in it in a way that they don't for other conflicts that they don't feel any connection to. Do you really care if Nagorno Karabakh belongs to Armenia or Azerbaijan?
I see one life lost in conflict no different to another. I don't see a hierarchy in these wars, you'd struggle to not get emotional watching the stuff going on in Syria. Especially the doc on the team of rescuers, harrowing
Right. But how much coverage are you going to see of conflicts like Syria or Yemen? It's hard to get emotional about humanitarian disasters if they're kept hidden from you. I was glancing at some news coverage the other night and the Israeli casualties were shown up front, but the strikes on Palestinians were shown from the warplane's own camera or from a distance. This is typical of American coverage. UK outlets like Channel 4 do a somewhat better job of getting in closer to the Palestinian suffering, but it's very hard to do when the Israelis are so indiscriminate in their bombing.
Punch in war in Syria to google and you'll find everything on it from all sides. What these people and those in Gaza go through is no different..
Said before, people hear (and see) what they want to
Every conflict is different but also every conflict should be avoided.
i find Syria is way more complex then Palestine, there are more groups, aliances etc.
Can I ask why you continually try to move move the topic off Palestine to the taliban, Syria etc.
Israel giving until 6am for Al Awda hospital to evacuate. Presumably before they bomb it. Nice people the Israelis.
Claims that the conveys evacuating are being bombed too.
Quote from: general_lee on October 13, 2023, 09:44:42 PMIsrael giving until 6am for Al Awda hospital to evacuate. Presumably before they bomb it. Nice people the Israelis.
Absolute psychopaths
The fact that the west supports their actions, makes them the same
Is it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
they absolutely did, no doubt in my mind. If there was any justice in the world both America and Israel would be boycotted for the warmongering terrorist states they are
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
[/quotQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Don't know much about the whole thing but ti was the first thing that crossed my mind
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
I don't know but what is ludicrous is that no one can criticise Israel for fear of appearing anti-Semitic. Two wrongs don't make a right and actions of Israel are as disgusting as those of Hamas. Meanwhile it's civilians and in particular children bearing the brunt of this.
Quote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 10:46:40 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
[/quot
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Don't know much about the whole thing but ti was the first thing that crossed my mind
So let's get this straight...
They allowed an unchallenged attack in Isreal
They allowed hundreds of young people to be killed at a music festival
They also allowed a district to be invaded and all residents murdered and burnt
On top of that they allowed hundreds of hostages to be taken into Gaza
To find a reason to continue what they have been doing for 75 years?
Some people on this thread need to go and take a lie down for a while
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:50:24 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 10:46:40 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
[/quot
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Don't know much about the whole thing but ti was the first thing that crossed my mind
So let's get this straight...
They allowed an unchallenged attack in Isreal
They allowed hundreds of young people to be killed at a music festival
They also allowed a district to be invaded and all residents murdered and burnt
On top of that they allowed hundreds of hostages to be taken into Gaza
To find a reason to continue what they have been doing for 75 years?
No, they allowed an attack.
What happens after that is something else.
It permits an obliteration of Gaza.
That was my first thought but I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he has been sheltered from that.
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:55:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:50:24 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 10:46:40 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
[/quot
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Don't know much about the whole thing but ti was the first thing that crossed my mind
So let's get this straight...
They allowed an unchallenged attack in Isreal
They allowed hundreds of young people to be killed at a music festival
They also allowed a district to be invaded and all residents murdered and burnt
On top of that they allowed hundreds of hostages to be taken into Gaza
To find a reason to continue what they have been doing for 75 years?
No, they allowed an attack.
What happens after that is something else.
It permits an obliteration of Gaza.
So they allowed an attack, which they thought in the grand scheme of things, those that lost loved ones would be ok with, so that they could wipe out Hamas?
Are we giving Hamas no credit in their ingenuity to carry out this attack ( albeit madness) that the intelligence of the likes of Mosad was given a bum steer?
And yes, a dirty war here has definitely proved that nothing is off the table. But sacrificing 1200 people, plus this new campaign losing as many more? Wow, for me that's a stretch.
I have no conspiracy angles just thinking if Israeli government wanted to capture Gaza or destroy the country and they sat down and thought about what would be the best way????
Next time hamas are goin to attack let them.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:09:47 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:55:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:50:24 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 10:46:40 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
[/quot
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Don't know much about the whole thing but ti was the first thing that crossed my mind
So let's get this straight...
They allowed an unchallenged attack in Isreal
They allowed hundreds of young people to be killed at a music festival
They also allowed a district to be invaded and all residents murdered and burnt
On top of that they allowed hundreds of hostages to be taken into Gaza
To find a reason to continue what they have been doing for 75 years?
No, they allowed an attack.
What happens after that is something else.
It permits an obliteration of Gaza.
So they allowed an attack, which they thought in the grand scheme of things, those that lost loved ones would be ok with, so that they could wipe out Hamas?
Are we giving Hamas no credit in their ingenuity to carry out this attack ( albeit madness) that the intelligence of the likes of Mosad was given a bum steer?
And yes, a dirty war here has definitely proved that nothing is off the table. But sacrificing 1200 people, plus this new campaign losing as many more? Wow, for me that's a stretch.
Sure didn't US sacrifice over 3000
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:55:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:50:24 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 10:46:40 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
[/quot
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Don't know much about the whole thing but ti was the first thing that crossed my mind
So let's get this straight...
They allowed an unchallenged attack in Isreal
They allowed hundreds of young people to be killed at a music festival
They also allowed a district to be invaded and all residents murdered and burnt
On top of that they allowed hundreds of hostages to be taken into Gaza
To find a reason to continue what they have been doing for 75 years?
No, they allowed an attack.
What happens after that is something else.
It permits an obliteration of Gaza.
Yep, I honestly think it's endgame
Israel won't kill all Palestinians, but they'll obliterate Gaza , so the Palestinians wont be coming back because there will be nothing to come back to
Quote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 11:12:30 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:09:47 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:55:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:50:24 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 10:46:40 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
[/quot
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Don't know much about the whole thing but ti was the first thing that crossed my mind
So let's get this straight...
They allowed an unchallenged attack in Isreal
They allowed hundreds of young people to be killed at a music festival
They also allowed a district to be invaded and all residents murdered and burnt
On top of that they allowed hundreds of hostages to be taken into Gaza
To find a reason to continue what they have been doing for 75 years?
No, they allowed an attack.
What happens after that is something else.
It permits an obliteration of Gaza.
So they allowed an attack, which they thought in the grand scheme of things, those that lost loved ones would be ok with, so that they could wipe out Hamas?
Are we giving Hamas no credit in their ingenuity to carry out this attack ( albeit madness) that the intelligence of the likes of Mosad was given a bum steer?
And yes, a dirty war here has definitely proved that nothing is off the table. But sacrificing 1200 people, plus this new campaign losing as many more? Wow, for me that's a stretch.
Sure didn't US sacrifice over 3000
f**k!! so now they blew up the twin towers to do absolutely nothing in Afghanistan?
My heads sore
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:15:37 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 11:12:30 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:09:47 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:55:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:50:24 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 10:46:40 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
[/quot
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Don't know much about the whole thing but ti was the first thing that crossed my mind
So let's get this straight...
They allowed an unchallenged attack in Isreal
They allowed hundreds of young people to be killed at a music festival
They also allowed a district to be invaded and all residents murdered and burnt
On top of that they allowed hundreds of hostages to be taken into Gaza
To find a reason to continue what they have been doing for 75 years?
No, they allowed an attack.
What happens after that is something else.
It permits an obliteration of Gaza.
So they allowed an attack, which they thought in the grand scheme of things, those that lost loved ones would be ok with, so that they could wipe out Hamas?
Are we giving Hamas no credit in their ingenuity to carry out this attack ( albeit madness) that the intelligence of the likes of Mosad was given a bum steer?
And yes, a dirty war here has definitely proved that nothing is off the table. But sacrificing 1200 people, plus this new campaign losing as many more? Wow, for me that's a stretch.
Sure didn't US sacrifice over 3000
f**k!! so now they blew up the twin towers to do absolutely nothing in Afghanistan?
My heads sore
Sure didn't they give them flying lessons.
Yeah all they wanted was to do nothing in Afghanistan or make u believe nothing was goin on
Quote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 11:19:31 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:15:37 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 11:12:30 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 11:09:47 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:55:22 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2023, 10:50:24 PMQuote from: WT4E on October 13, 2023, 10:46:40 PMQuote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
[/quot
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 10:36:00 PMIs it ludicrous to think Israel's intelligence allowed this to happen?
Don't know much about the whole thing but ti was the first thing that crossed my mind
So let's get this straight...
They allowed an unchallenged attack in Isreal
They allowed hundreds of young people to be killed at a music festival
They also allowed a district to be invaded and all residents murdered and burnt
On top of that they allowed hundreds of hostages to be taken into Gaza
To find a reason to continue what they have been doing for 75 years?
No, they allowed an attack.
What happens after that is something else.
It permits an obliteration of Gaza.
So they allowed an attack, which they thought in the grand scheme of things, those that lost loved ones would be ok with, so that they could wipe out Hamas?
Are we giving Hamas no credit in their ingenuity to carry out this attack ( albeit madness) that the intelligence of the likes of Mosad was given a bum steer?
And yes, a dirty war here has definitely proved that nothing is off the table. But sacrificing 1200 people, plus this new campaign losing as many more? Wow, for me that's a stretch.
Sure didn't US sacrifice over 3000
f**k!! so now they blew up the twin towers to do absolutely nothing in Afghanistan?
My heads sore
Sure didn't they give them flying lessons.
Yeah all they wanted was to do nothing in Afghanistan or make u believe nothing was goin on
And Elvis is still alive and they never walked on the moon!
The combined Shin Bet, The Mossad, the Israeli state (possibly the most sophisticated surveillance system on the planet) missed this.
Quote from: ONeill on October 13, 2023, 11:42:40 PMThe combined Shin Bet, The Mossad, the Israeli state (possibly the most sophisticated surveillance system on the planet) missed this.
You only have to get 'lucky' once
Again, they've always be hammering Gaza, and with the current government they really didn't need to sacrifice 1200 plus to get 'justification' to do what they need.
But if that's the case, then that'll come out, just find it hard to take.
The sabbath is generally a quieter day of the week I'd assume and perfect for any attack.
Its not that big of a stretch to think Israel let the attack happen. Certainly makes more sense than a crowd of boys on kites beat the most sophisticated defence system in the world
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2023, 12:20:48 AMIts not that big of a stretch to think Israel let the attack happen. Certainly makes more sense than a crowd of boys on kites beat the most sophisticated defence system in the world
So bombs have went off in coordinated attacks in Israel and the intelligence services allowed it to happen as well?
So every attack has been 'arranged'? Or just ones that feel a bit dodgy?
Look, could all be true, who knows, but the carnage on the way, well, It's not going to be much better
Brooklyn Jews protest Israel's actions in Gaza.
(https://twitter.com/simonerzim/status/1712959461399073101)
https://twitter.com/jvpliveNY/status/1713000861637755127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1713000861637755127%7Ctwgr%5E12d716e230cec10669e6fd4466cc1b60b747465f%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fisrael-palestine-discussion-post-respectfully-less-tweets-more-discussion.438643%2Fpage-337
It is not anti Semitic to criticise the Israeli terrorists
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2023, 12:20:48 AMIts not that big of a stretch to think Israel let the attack happen. Certainly makes more sense than a crowd of boys on kites beat the most sophisticated defence system in the world
I think it's a bit of a stretch. 1,200 killed? Way more per head of population than 9/11. Sure, nearly everyone, they're saying, knew someone or had relations caught up in it - so chances are that would also extend to the ones that supposedly "let it happen", no? More likely is that Hamas played docile for a few months, and the Israeli intelligence services focussed on the north where Hezbollah were flexing. Big mistake.
Israel wants to flatten Gaza. Great chance to do it now and the world won't say boo to them. Actually giving them the green light.
Probably create a buffer zone.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 14, 2023, 03:48:43 AM
Brooklyn Jews protest Israel's actions in Gaza.
(https://twitter.com/simonerzim/status/1712959461399073101)
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2023, 06:42:27 AMhttps://twitter.com/jvpliveNY/status/1713000861637755127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1713000861637755127%7Ctwgr%5E12d716e230cec10669e6fd4466cc1b60b747465f%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fisrael-palestine-discussion-post-respectfully-less-tweets-more-discussion.438643%2Fpage-337
It is not anti Semitic to criticise the Israeli terrorists
Yeah , those Jews will no doubt be arrested for being anti-Semitic
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67102528
So come out supporting Israel blowing the shite out of Palestinians is ok?
But come out in support of Palestinians not being blown to pieces is anti-Semitic?
Where does that article say supporting Palestinians is anti Semitic?
Holding all Jews accountable for the actions of the Israeli state, such as intimidating people outside a synagogue or trashing a kosher restaurant (in the UK!) are most certainly anti Semitic. Maybe you disagree? Perhaps they're all just coincidental and would have happened regardless of the events of the last week?
Quote from: gallsman on October 14, 2023, 10:05:47 AMWhere does that article say supporting Palestinians is anti Semitic?
Holding all Jews accountable for the actions of the Israeli state, such as intimidating people outside a synagogue or trashing a kosher restaurant (in the UK!) are most certainly anti Semitic. Maybe you disagree? Perhaps they're all just coincidental and would have happened regardless of the events of the last week?
Anyone doing that simply because someone is Jewish isn't too bright. Especially given theres a fair whack of Jews that hate what the Israeli scum are doung
You'd be making a grave error looking to the Brits for moral guidance.
Quote from: gallsman on October 14, 2023, 10:05:47 AMWhere does that article say supporting Palestinians is anti Semitic?
Holding all Jews accountable for the actions of the Israeli state, such as intimidating people outside a synagogue or trashing a kosher restaurant (in the UK!) are most certainly anti Semitic. Maybe you disagree? Perhaps they're all just coincidental and would have happened regardless of the events of the last week?
Yes that is anti Semitic. Who said it wasn't. But as you know, anyone who publically criticised Israel (example Jeremy Corbyn) was blackened with the anti Semitic slur.
By who? By the BBC? Was there a global proclamation?
Why should I or anyone else give a f**k about what Rachel Riley thinks?
Quote from: gallsman on October 14, 2023, 10:12:50 AMBy who? By the BBC? Was there a global proclamation?
Why should I or anyone else give a f**k about what Rachel Riley thinks?
Corbyn was pretty much railroaded by all of the UK media and made unelectable. Surprise surprise they love Starmer the Tory.
Quote from: gallsman on October 14, 2023, 10:05:47 AMWhere does that article say supporting Palestinians is anti Semitic?
Holding all Jews accountable for the actions of the Israeli state, such as intimidating people outside a synagogue or trashing a kosher restaurant (in the UK!) are most certainly anti Semitic. Maybe you disagree? Perhaps they're all just coincidental and would have happened regardless of the events of the last week?
Define intimidation though? To some, walking past a few teenagers is intimidatory. A catholic walking past a few rangers fans?
We all know the British stance on this. Supporting Israel. Police will be told to crack down on any gathered support for Palestine, even peaceful ones.
And talk of protecting Jewish communities in Britain, while Israel blows Palestinians to pieces in Gaza... well, says it all really
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 14, 2023, 10:40:53 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 14, 2023, 10:05:47 AMWhere does that article say supporting Palestinians is anti Semitic?
Holding all Jews accountable for the actions of the Israeli state, such as intimidating people outside a synagogue or trashing a kosher restaurant (in the UK!) are most certainly anti Semitic. Maybe you disagree? Perhaps they're all just coincidental and would have happened regardless of the events of the last week?
Define intimidation though? To some, walking past a few teenagers is intimidatory. A catholic walking past a few rangers fans?
We all know the British stance on this. Supporting Israel. Police will be told to crack down on any gathered support for Palestine, even peaceful ones.
And talk of protecting Jewish communities in Britain, while Israel blows Palestinians to pieces in Gaza... well, says it all really
There have been several pro Palestine demonstrations in London this week that were allowed to proceed unfettered
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2023, 10:07:36 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 14, 2023, 10:05:47 AMWhere does that article say supporting Palestinians is anti Semitic?
Holding all Jews accountable for the actions of the Israeli state, such as intimidating people outside a synagogue or trashing a kosher restaurant (in the UK!) are most certainly anti Semitic. Maybe you disagree? Perhaps they're all just coincidental and would have happened regardless of the events of the last week?
Anyone doing that simply because someone is Jewish isn't too bright. Especially given theres a fair whack of Jews that hate what the Israeli scum are doung
It's really complicated. There are ordinary Jews who have nothing to do with Israel and there are predator Jews who are calling the shots . Here is an article from Israel that says the Palestinians are anti semitic (even though they also are semitic)
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/the-inconvenient-context-palestinians-massacred-jews-for-being-jews/0000018b-2890-dff1-a5eb-fefd6e7d0000
has anyone watched or read the statements from Hamas or PA. There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians, when contrasted with thr Israeli comments which are clearly genocidal with no care for civilians.
yet we are to believe its the Palestinians who are savages and the Israeli who uphold democracy.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 12:56:37 PMhas anyone watched or read the statements from Hamas or PA. There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians, when contrasted with thr Israeli comments which are clearly genocidal with no care for civilians.
yet we are to believe its the Palestinians who are savages and the Israeli who uphold democracy.
Aye actions speak louder
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 14, 2023, 12:58:52 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 12:56:37 PMhas anyone watched or read the statements from Hamas or PA. There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians, when contrasted with thr Israeli comments which are clearly genocidal with no care for civilians.
yet we are to believe its the Palestinians who are savages and the Israeli who uphold democracy.
Aye actions speak louder
I expected this response from israeli apologists, 75 years of occupation, oppression, murdering, maiming ethic cleansing of palestinans civilians to back up their genocidal language.
Gabor Mate on Israel and Zionism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_GDDa4bmI
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 01:05:05 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 14, 2023, 12:58:52 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 12:56:37 PMhas anyone watched or read the statements from Hamas or PA. There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians, when contrasted with thr Israeli comments which are clearly genocidal with no care for civilians.
yet we are to believe its the Palestinians who are savages and the Israeli who uphold democracy.
Aye actions speak louder
I expected this response from israeli apologists, 75 years of occupation, oppression, murdering, maiming ethic cleansing of palestinans civilians to back up their genocidal language.
ZZzzzzzzz.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2023, 01:56:02 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 01:05:05 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 14, 2023, 12:58:52 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 12:56:37 PMhas anyone watched or read the statements from Hamas or PA. There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians, when contrasted with thr Israeli comments which are clearly genocidal with no care for civilians.
yet we are to believe its the Palestinians who are savages and the Israeli who uphold democracy.
Aye actions speak louder
I expected this response from israeli apologists, 75 years of occupation, oppression, murdering, maiming ethic cleansing of palestinans civilians to back up their genocidal language.
ZZzzzzzzz.
nothing less expected from a racist.
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 14, 2023, 10:44:25 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 14, 2023, 10:40:53 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 14, 2023, 10:05:47 AMWhere does that article say supporting Palestinians is anti Semitic?
Holding all Jews accountable for the actions of the Israeli state, such as intimidating people outside a synagogue or trashing a kosher restaurant (in the UK!) are most certainly anti Semitic. Maybe you disagree? Perhaps they're all just coincidental and would have happened regardless of the events of the last week?
Define intimidation though? To some, walking past a few teenagers is intimidatory. A catholic walking past a few rangers fans?
We all know the British stance on this. Supporting Israel. Police will be told to crack down on any gathered support for Palestine, even peaceful ones.
And talk of protecting Jewish communities in Britain, while Israel blows Palestinians to pieces in Gaza... well, says it all really
There have been several pro Palestine demonstrations in London this week that were allowed to proceed unfettered
Not like the Home Secretary is exploring having the displaying of the Palestine flag criminalised or anything.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 01:05:05 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 14, 2023, 12:58:52 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 12:56:37 PMhas anyone watched or read the statements from Hamas or PA. There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians, when contrasted with thr Israeli comments which are clearly genocidal with no care for civilians.
yet we are to believe its the Palestinians who are savages and the Israeli who uphold democracy.
Aye actions speak louder
I expected this response from israeli apologists, 75 years of occupation, oppression, murdering, maiming ethic cleansing of palestinans civilians to back up their genocidal language.
What the absolute f**k are you on about? "There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians" from Hamas? They hit all those ones last weekend by accident or something?
Quote from: gallsman on October 14, 2023, 02:10:03 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 01:05:05 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 14, 2023, 12:58:52 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 12:56:37 PMhas anyone watched or read the statements from Hamas or PA. There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians, when contrasted with thr Israeli comments which are clearly genocidal with no care for civilians.
yet we are to believe its the Palestinians who are savages and the Israeli who uphold democracy.
Aye actions speak louder
I expected this response from israeli apologists, 75 years of occupation, oppression, murdering, maiming ethic cleansing of palestinans civilians to back up their genocidal language.
What the absolute f**k are you on about? "There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians" from Hamas? They hit all those ones last weekend by accident or something?
did I say civilians weren't killed last weekend? I am talking about what they are saying.. civilians are killed on both sides and a hell of a lot f**king more Palestinians than Israelis, palestinians don't have a siege on 2.2 m people. the Israeli are calling for out an out genocide, yet people still defend them, hamas and the PA have not in their statements.
What the f**k does it matter what they are saying? Do you want them to get kudos for not calling for murdering civilians *right now* when that's precisely what they were doing not one week ago? What exactly do you think their statements in the last week actually mean in light of their actions?
And when this absurdity is pointed out to you, you start rambling on about "Israeli apologists". At least try and get your shit together man, you're all over the f**king shop.
it matters what is said, history tells us that. dehumanising and calling for genocide matters.. what are you f**king on about!!!
where did I look for kudos! I am contrasting what they are actually saying and what's portrayed in the here/media and western governments.
where is the condemnation of Israelis murder of civilians, we stand with Israel, we enable and are are apologists for their muliple crimes.
there is no justification for civillians death unless they are Palestinians
Sure just ignore what they actually do, focus on what they say. Well done those guys! Murdering civilians doesn't matter as long as your don't put out a statement calling for the murder of civilians.
Great f**king job altogether.
Quote from: gallsman on October 14, 2023, 02:41:56 PMSure just ignore what they actually do, focus on what they say. Well done those guys! Murdering civilians doesn't matter as long as your don't put out a statement calling for the murder of civilians.
Great f**king job altogether.
no one said that, I called you out on comprehension before.
nobody said ignore what is actually happening.
Israel has made 300,000 people homeless
Is the Ukraine war over? I havent heard on the news since this conflict reignited.
Quote from: downtothecore on October 14, 2023, 03:37:56 PMIs the Ukraine war over? I havent heard on the news since this conflict reignited.
No, but most days it is a case of gaining metres of ground, so not very dramatic.
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2023, 02:55:01 PMIsrael has made 300,000 people homeless
Straight out of the Nazi handbook, like everything else they've been doing for years.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 01:05:05 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on October 14, 2023, 12:58:52 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2023, 12:56:37 PMhas anyone watched or read the statements from Hamas or PA. There are no calls for genocide or the targeting of civilians, when contrasted with thr Israeli comments which are clearly genocidal with no care for civilians.
yet we are to believe its the Palestinians who are savages and the Israeli who uphold democracy.
Aye actions speak louder
I expected this response from israeli apologists, 75 years of occupation, oppression, murdering, maiming ethic cleansing of palestinans civilians to back up their genocidal language.
Exactly. f**k them
Hopefully the last time we'll welcome an Irish-American President like Biden to this country. Pure evil as they stand for and fund this.
Quote from: weareros on October 14, 2023, 05:25:53 PMHopefully the last time we'll welcome an Irish-American President like Biden to this country. Pure evil as they stand for and fund this.
He can f**k right off, he has more in common with his English ancestors than his Irish ones. I see Brolly calling out all sorts of politicians on the conflict but the eternal hypocrite he is not a mention of his cousin in law, Israel's No 1 fan and No 1 funder.
The only good thing that can come of this is that maybe the world can see Israel for what they are :( declaring an amnesty to get civilians out the blowing up the civilians and saying oh we will investigate it. They are a low bunch :(
Quote from: weareros on October 14, 2023, 05:25:53 PMHopefully the last time we'll welcome an Irish-American President like Biden to this country. Pure evil as they stand for and fund this.
Yeah and stop the bastards using Shannon while we're at it.
WTF is a cousin in law ?
I wouldn't know half my cousins and the whatever da f**k is cousin in law!
You know what a father in law is, right? Start from there.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 14, 2023, 07:07:38 PMYou know what a father in law is, right? Start from there.
So it's an actual term people use? Christ
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2023, 07:13:23 PMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 14, 2023, 07:07:38 PMYou know what a father in law is, right? Start from there.
So it's an actual term people use? Christ
It's quicker than writing Joe Brollys wife Laurita Blewitt who is a distant cousin of Joe Biden and gets to schmooze with him with Derry Joe.
Quote from: weareros on October 14, 2023, 05:25:53 PMHopefully the last time we'll welcome an Irish-American President like Biden to this country. Pure evil as they stand for and fund this.
Why, did you think he was a great fella before this happened ?
He's not Donald trump was his main strength tbh. Definitely has many flaws and things like this highlight them.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2023, 07:55:36 PMHe's not Donald trump was his main strength tbh. Definitely has many flaws and things like this highlight them.
All yank presidents are the same in fairness when it comes to Israel
Yep its always 110% backing for the Israeli rogue State plus loads of the latest weaponry and billions of $....
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2023, 07:55:36 PMHe's not Donald trump was his main strength tbh. Definitely has many flaws and things like this highlight them.
I'd much rather the Donald than Mr alzeimhers
It's ok to seriously dislike both Trump and Biden isn't it?
It doesn't seem to be in today's world where everything is so polarised ???
All those people out protesting in Dublin today, it's funny because if 10,000 Palestinian refugees landed on our doorstep the same people would be out protesting against them being here.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2023, 08:46:36 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2023, 07:55:36 PMHe's not Donald trump was his main strength tbh. Definitely has many flaws and things like this highlight them.
I'd much rather the Donald than Mr alzeimhers
Why?
Was it moving the embassy to Jerusalem and the extremely cosy relationship the GOP have with Netanyahu and the Israeli lunatic, land-stealing right?
You know they named one of the stolen West Bank hills after Trump?
Quote from: clarshack on October 14, 2023, 08:48:21 PMIt's ok to seriously dislike both Trump and Biden isn't it?
2 usless bastards. At least Trump makes sense the odd time
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 14, 2023, 08:55:30 PMQuote from: clarshack on October 14, 2023, 08:48:21 PMIt's ok to seriously dislike both Trump and Biden isn't it?
2 usless bastards. At least Trump makes sense the odd time
When?
Quote from: jcpen on October 14, 2023, 08:51:13 PMAll those people out protesting in Dublin today, it's funny because if 10,000 Palestinian refugees landed on our doorstep the same people would be out protesting against them being here.
As they should. Mind you, I don't think it actually would be "the same people".
Quote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2023, 10:25:09 PMQuote from: jcpen on October 14, 2023, 08:51:13 PMAll those people out protesting in Dublin today, it's funny because if 10,000 Palestinian refugees landed on our doorstep the same people would be out protesting against them being here.
As they should. Mind you, I don't think it actually would be "the same people".
Your right, jcpen doesn't realise the far right racists like yourself would of course be pro Israel. While the left who support Palestine would be much more sympathetic to refugees. I would personally like to see the Israel's ambassador expelled and their embassy used to house Palestinians.
Quote from: Itchy on October 14, 2023, 10:34:22 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2023, 10:25:09 PMQuote from: jcpen on October 14, 2023, 08:51:13 PMAll those people out protesting in Dublin today, it's funny because if 10,000 Palestinian refugees landed on our doorstep the same people would be out protesting against them being here.
As they should. Mind you, I don't think it actually would be "the same people".
Your right, jcpen doesn't realise the far right racists like yourself would of course be pro Israel. While the left who support Palestine would be much more sympathetic to refugees. I would personally like to see the Israel's ambassador expelled and their embassy used to house Palestinians.
No, not pro-Israel at all. Really expect a "far-right racist" (!) to be cheerleading for Jews?!! But still, not pro- having a lot of radicalised Muslims here, either. Pretty normal, if you ask me.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2023, 10:37:33 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 14, 2023, 10:34:22 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2023, 10:25:09 PMQuote from: jcpen on October 14, 2023, 08:51:13 PMAll those people out protesting in Dublin today, it's funny because if 10,000 Palestinian refugees landed on our doorstep the same people would be out protesting against them being here.
As they should. Mind you, I don't think it actually would be "the same people".
No, not pro-Israel, just not pro-having a lot of radicalised Muslims here. Pretty normal, if you ask me.
Your right, jcpen doesn't realise the far right racists like yourself would of course be pro Israel. While the left who support Palestine would be much more sympathetic to refugees. I would personally like to see the Israel's ambassador expelled and their embassy used to house Palestinians.
I notice you deny being pro Israel but not being a far right racist. 😂
Quote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2023, 10:37:33 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 14, 2023, 10:34:22 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 14, 2023, 10:25:09 PMQuote from: jcpen on October 14, 2023, 08:51:13 PMAll those people out protesting in Dublin today, it's funny because if 10,000 Palestinian refugees landed on our doorstep the same people would be out protesting against them being here.
As they should. Mind you, I don't think it actually would be "the same people".
No, not pro-Israel, just not pro-having a lot of radicalised Muslims here. Pretty normal, if you ask me.
Your right, jcpen doesn't realise the far right racists like yourself would of course be pro Israel. While the left who support Palestine would be much more sympathetic to refugees. I would personally like to see the Israel's ambassador expelled and their embassy used to house Palestinians.
I notice you deny being pro Israel but not being a far right racist. 😂
[/quote]
Ja, und...? For you, anything you don't like is "right-wing", so it's meaningless. Anyway - if I had actually said something "racist" I'm sure I'd have been banned by the Mod.
I believe the Cork racists had a "rally" or "day of action" today.
Around 50 people at most took part.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2023, 11:16:21 PMI believe the Cork racists had a "rally" or "day of action" today.
Around 50 people at most took part.
Were they down at the library again looking for "pedos"? All this time at the library and not one of the f**kers ever read a book.
Funny incident earlier in the week- the cnuts went into a Library in either Athlone or Galway, picked up the book they keep moaning about, accosted a librarian saying this book is full of sex toys.
Librarian said "Did they fall out when you opened it?"
Aside from everything I just can't get my head around the settlers who have moved from relatively safe countries to relocate to a war zone. When we think about religious fanatacism it's often connected with Islam in western media, but feck me the settlers are lunatics too and the current right-wingers are a level above. An ancient book said that this is your land...I know we live and work in the UK and the kids love school and their mates but let's up sticks and go! Taking a step back from politics and I just can't fathom it.
As an aside what is the red line for the USA when it comes to Israel getting any criticism?
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on October 15, 2023, 12:48:06 PMAside from everything I just can't get my head around the settlers who have moved from relatively safe countries to relocate to a war zone. When we think about religious fanatacism it's often connected with Islam in western media, but feck me the settlers are lunatics too and the current right-wingers are a level above. An ancient book said that this is your land...I know we live and work in the UK and the kids love school and their mates but let's up sticks and go! Taking a step back from politics and I just can't fathom it.
As an aside what is the red line for the USA when it comes to Israel getting any criticism?
A UK woman who moved to Israel thinking it was like the UK
https://twitter.com/talschneider/status/1710864693558936045
"You don't kidnap kids like that. How cruel they are "
From the Times of Israel, no less.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ (https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
The British Labour party, knowing the right wing press in London are ready to pounce, are tying themselves in knots.
Other Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
Starmer is a disaster. Basically elections are coming and if he says anything even slightly controversial on "culture war" or now the Israel Palestine situation then he knows he'll be finished by them.
Tbh it's a disaster because the tories have to go. They are bad people who are robbing people blind. The more Starmer says the more you wonder could they get back in.
Quote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
They don't give the slightest f**k. Never have and never will.
Gates closed the Egyptian side, would say alot about their backing of Palestine state long term. Possible beneficial to them if Gaza was over run.
Quote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
Egypt is run by it's Army and who funds them?
Read up on how the Islamic Brotherhood won the Arab Spring elections in Egypt only for the Army to stage a coup.
Follow the money.
Really disappointed but not surprised to see BBC NI GMU give free rein to an Israeli Colonel this morning to describe events in the most emotional terms with little or no challenge from Tara Mills. They did try balance with a Palestinian living in Belfast, Joel Taggart to be fair was better at challenging his evasion whilst allowing him to make his points about Israeli war crimes. Hamas have a lot to answer for but so do the IDF.
Didn't hear that particular interview but to be fair to the BBC I think their coverage has been quite good. Victoria Derbyshire sitting in for Kuenssberg yesterday completely filleted that charlatan David Lammy. He basically admitted he wouldn't criticise Israel as he wanted to be the next Foreign Minister in the UK.
One thing this crisis has shown is that Twitter is not a place to go to for news, discussion or any sort of nuance!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 16, 2023, 11:08:45 AMGates closed the Egyptian side, would say alot about their backing of Palestine state long term. Possible beneficial to them of Gaza was over run.
Gaza was established by the Egyptian army in 1948 as a safe zone for all of the Palestinian farmers of what is now Southern Israel who were ethnically cleansed by the Zionists and became refugees. The Gaza Strip was not on the Egyptian side of the border for strategic reasons. The Egyptians did not want any hassle like bombs launched from Egypt into Israel. Egypt managed Gaza from 1948 until 1967 when Israel for some really f**king stupid reason decided to occupy it and take all the refugees onto its balance sheet.
The gates are closed because Egypt does not trust Israel . The fear is that Israel will attempt to clear Gaza of people if they seek shelter in Egypt. Egypt has enough problems already with poverty .Nobody is going to absorb 2 m Gazans to suit Israel.
will there end up be some tent city in the south of gaza
some lunatic in america stab a 6 year old Palestinian boy dead and attack his mom
Quote from: gallsman on October 16, 2023, 10:33:07 AMQuote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
They don't give the slightest f**k. Never have and never will.
Care to tell us why? Its hardly to do with the proxy US friendly governments in many of them?
They're trouble?
Prime Ministers questions on sky. Sammy Wilson decides that the most important thing to talk about is the a pro Palestine demonstration at Coláiste Feirste in Belfast
Quote from: dec on October 16, 2023, 04:28:51 PMPrime Ministers questions on sky. Sammy Wilson decides that the most important thing to talk about is the a pro Palestine demonstration at Coláiste Feirste in Belfast
Sammy made absolutely no distinction between Hamas and Palestinians, and got a round of "Here here's" for his speech fronts. Terrible stuff in Parliament.
Quote from: Eire90 on October 16, 2023, 12:20:12 PMsome lunatic in america stab a 6 year old Palestinian boy dead and attack his mom
Stabbed the poor child 26 times.
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1713823799752200234
Quote from: johnnycool on October 16, 2023, 11:19:03 AMQuote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
Egypt is run by it's Army and who funds them?
Read up on how the Islamic Brotherhood won the Arab Spring elections in Egypt only for the Army to stage a coup.
Follow the money.
Same c***ts that are backing Zelensky in Ukraine and the Israelis?
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 16, 2023, 07:35:29 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 16, 2023, 11:19:03 AMQuote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
Egypt is run by it's Army and who funds them?
Read up on how the Islamic Brotherhood won the Arab Spring elections in Egypt only for the Army to stage a coup.
Follow the money.
Same c***ts that are backing Zelensky in Ukraine and the Israelis?
War is a lucrative business for some, ably financed by the US tax payer as "aid"
BBC - Earlier we reported on some of the pro-Palestinian demonstrations at the weekend.We spoke about "several demonstrations across Britain during which people voiced their backing for Hamas".
We accept this was poorly phrased and was a misleading description of the demonstrations
poorly phrased!!
Israeli historian and genocide scholar Raz Segal says Israeli leaders' dehumanizing language about Palestinians in Gaza and the IDF's conduct are cause for alarm. "We're seeing the combination of genocidal acts with special intent. This is indeed a textbook case of genocide."
https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1713884367838130234?t=vIMGAMbLNA2fo8TBElTfgg&s=19
Some lads need to take a serious look at themselves.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 16, 2023, 08:01:51 PMBBC - Earlier we reported on some of the pro-Palestinian demonstrations at the weekend.We spoke about "several demonstrations across Britain during which people voiced their backing for Hamas".
We accept this was poorly phrased and was a misleading description of the demonstrations
poorly phrased!!
Too late. They knew what they were at and the damage has been done
David Lammy is some nasty piece of work.
then there is the human rights lawyer Arsen Ostrovsty
https://twitter.com/CJPME/status/1713913109218291854?t=QTL-5a_c0DFvYE2Ko5kJpA&s=19
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1713784638445965312?t=peFjERff09CJ08ad6MshnA&s=19
an extension of the Hannibal protocol.
Wow!! This thread is getting into popcorn territory
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 08:46:21 PMWow!! This thread is getting into popcorn territory
yes, the subject matter is popcorn worthy!!!
Do you post about anything else?!
Quote from: burdizzo on October 16, 2023, 08:52:32 PMDo you post about anything else?!
you can click on PHP, show posts and can see what I post about over my almost 17 years on the forum.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 16, 2023, 08:59:28 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 16, 2023, 08:52:32 PMDo you post about anything else?!
you can click on PHP, show posts and can see what I post about over my almost 17 years on the forum.
Cheers. Seems like this is the only thing you've posted on since Feb.!
Quote from: burdizzo on October 16, 2023, 09:15:35 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 16, 2023, 08:59:28 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 16, 2023, 08:52:32 PMDo you post about anything else?!
you can click on PHP, show posts and can see what I post about over my almost 17 years on the forum.
Cheers. Seems like this is the only thing you've posted on since Feb.!
Well 17 years and 1000 posts, probably let's you know I'm not on here a lot of the time, I have an interest in this topic.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 16, 2023, 08:49:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 08:46:21 PMWow!! This thread is getting into popcorn territory
yes, the subject matter is popcorn worthy!!!
When someone posts something like about it's genuinely taking the piss!
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 16, 2023, 08:49:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 08:46:21 PMWow!! This thread is getting into popcorn territory
yes, the subject matter is popcorn worthy!!!
When someone is saying the Jews killed Jesus then following it up with a host of nonsense then yes I feel it's a popcorn moment
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 16, 2023, 07:35:29 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 16, 2023, 11:19:03 AMQuote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
Egypt is run by it's Army and who funds them?
Read up on how the Islamic Brotherhood won the Arab Spring elections in Egypt only for the Army to stage a coup.
Follow the money.
Same c***ts that are backing Zelensky in Ukraine and the Israelis?
Should Zelensky not be backed?
Just let the Russians take what land they want.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 16, 2023, 10:49:04 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 16, 2023, 07:35:29 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 16, 2023, 11:19:03 AMQuote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
Egypt is run by it's Army and who funds them?
Read up on how the Islamic Brotherhood won the Arab Spring elections in Egypt only for the Army to stage a coup.
Follow the money.
Same c***ts that are backing Zelensky in Ukraine and the Israelis?
Should Zelensky not be backed?
Just let the Russians take what land they want.
Not so sure he should be. In fact, he's not merely been backed, more goaded on from the beginning. Now it seems pretty clear the whole thing has backfired, at enormous cost to Ukraine: hundreds of thousands dead, maybe as many as 10 million refugees, a lot of territory lost (and a good chance of more to be lost, too) and, no doubt, enormous debts into the distant future. They should have let him sign the peace deal early on.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 09:59:21 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 16, 2023, 08:49:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 08:46:21 PMWow!! This thread is getting into popcorn territory
yes, the subject matter is popcorn worthy!!!
When someone posts something like about it's genuinely taking the piss! Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 16, 2023, 08:49:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2023, 08:46:21 PMWow!! This thread is getting into popcorn territory
yes, the subject matter is popcorn worthy!!!
When someone is saying the Jews killed Jesus then following it up with a host of nonsense then yes I feel it's a popcorn moment
Seems like I missed a bunch of now deleted posts. Must check in more frequently.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 16, 2023, 11:19:08 PMQuote from: LeoMc on October 16, 2023, 10:49:04 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 16, 2023, 07:35:29 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 16, 2023, 11:19:03 AMQuote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
Egypt is run by it's Army and who funds them?
Read up on how the Islamic Brotherhood won the Arab Spring elections in Egypt only for the Army to stage a coup.
Follow the money.
Same c***ts that are backing Zelensky in Ukraine and the Israelis?
Should Zelensky not be backed?
Just let the Russians take what land they want.
Not so sure he should be. In fact, he's not merely been backed, more goaded on from the beginning. Now it seems pretty clear the whole thing has backfired, at enormous cost to Ukraine: hundreds of thousands dead, maybe as many as 10 million refugees, a lot of territory lost (and a good chance of more to be lost, too) and, no doubt, enormous debts into the distant future. They should have let him sign the peace deal early on.
Just sign away 4m of his own people.
Then when Vladimir comes back for more, just sign again. Give him Estonia when he comes for it or Georgia?
Quote from: LeoMc on October 16, 2023, 10:49:04 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 16, 2023, 07:35:29 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 16, 2023, 11:19:03 AMQuote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
Egypt is run by it's Army and who funds them?
Read up on how the Islamic Brotherhood won the Arab Spring elections in Egypt only for the Army to stage a coup.
Follow the money.
Same c***ts that are backing Zelensky in Ukraine and the Israelis?
Should Zelensky not be backed?
Just let the Russians take what land they want.
Apparently so.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 16, 2023, 11:19:08 PMQuote from: LeoMc on October 16, 2023, 10:49:04 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 16, 2023, 07:35:29 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 16, 2023, 11:19:03 AMQuote from: trailer on October 16, 2023, 10:19:26 AMOther Arab nations ought to be helping Gaza citizens especially Egypt. The fact that they aren't says it all.
Egypt is run by it's Army and who funds them?
Read up on how the Islamic Brotherhood won the Arab Spring elections in Egypt only for the Army to stage a coup.
Follow the money.
Same c***ts that are backing Zelensky in Ukraine and the Israelis?
Should Zelensky not be backed?
Just let the Russians take what land they want.
Not so sure he should be. In fact, he's not merely been backed, more goaded on from the beginning. Now it seems pretty clear the whole thing has backfired, at enormous cost to Ukraine: hundreds of thousands dead, maybe as many as 10 million refugees, a lot of territory lost (and a good chance of more to be lost, too) and, no doubt, enormous debts into the distant future. They should have let him sign the peace deal early on.
How did the last peace deal work out, and the one before that?
Ukraine should be backed. And so should Palestine. Each is being marauded by a hostile dominant power. The different responses tell you it's not about right and wrong, but about what suits the interests of the west.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 16, 2023, 08:11:01 PMIsraeli historian and genocide scholar Raz Segal says Israeli leaders' dehumanizing language about Palestinians in Gaza and the IDF's conduct are cause for alarm. "We're seeing the combination of genocidal acts with special intent. This is indeed a textbook case of genocide."
https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1713884367838130234?t=vIMGAMbLNA2fo8TBElTfgg&s=19
Was it worth defeating the Nazis https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1714011361716433264
Finkelstein https://twitter.com/anniefofani/status/1714149285779185733
https://twitter.com/ShahidkBolsen/status/1713561297609265414
This is a struggle between the children of light and the children of darkness, between humanity and the law of the jungle. PM of Israel
We stand with genocidal aparthied Israel, Photo ops for Biden and Ursela.
a few sources include ministry of Health Gaza on twitter reporting Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital has been targeted by Israel and estimates between 300-500 dead and injured.
reported in the journal now.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2023, 06:46:33 PMa few sources include ministry of Health Gaza on twitter reporting Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital has been targeted by Israel and estimates between 300-500 dead and injured.
reported in the journal now.
Evil bastards.
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1714348558877352297?t=9TKTpeXvxwsL-fp4SXcuqw&s=19
She has no shame or humanity, hours after Israel targeted a Hospital
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 17, 2023, 06:53:57 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2023, 06:46:33 PMa few sources include ministry of Health Gaza on twitter reporting Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital has been targeted by Israel and estimates between 300-500 dead and injured.
reported in the journal now.
Evil bastards.
Horrific.
We'll remember the state of Israel the same as we remember the Nazis. I have no doubt Israel plan to wipe the Palestinians off the face of the earth.
Quote from: trailer on October 17, 2023, 08:50:54 PMWe'll remember the state of Israel the same as we remember the Nazis. I have no doubt Israel plan to wipe the Palestinians off the face of the earth.
Big push now from Israel in the disinformation front now saying it was a barrage of misfiring Hamas rockets to Hamas had explosives stored in the hospital, completely forgetting that they issued a warning to evacuate the hospital earlier in the day...
Neytanyahu should be in front of the Haig
You have to wonder if they'll be remembered like that trailer. For some unfathomable reason they are still the good guys. The question is how far can they push that and I imagine it's a question they're prepared to ask.
I doubt they will be stopping any time soon unless something drastic changes and given what they have been at so far it is going to take something off the charts barbaric and inhumane to do that but the last week has shown that probably isn't a problem for them :-\
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2023, 07:49:39 PMhttps://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1714348558877352297?t=9TKTpeXvxwsL-fp4SXcuqw&s=19
She has no shame or humanity, hours after Israel targeted a Hospital
I find it beyond belief that Von der Leyen is standing so firmly behind Israel, they must have something on her.
It's not that anyone needed convincing, but surely the bombing of a hospital with so much loss of life tells the world what was always known about Israel. Unjustified, unjustifiable ... no words for it. How can Biden continue with his trip and stand with Israel is also incredulous!
Israel claim that Hamas rockets fired near the hospital misfired.
International experts need to go in and sort out these stories.
Here is the Jerusalem Post report on the hospital bomb
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-768879
The IDF confirmed last Tuesday night that Islamic Jihad's failed rocket had destroyed a Gaza hospital, leading to a still unclear number of deaths.
The IDF said that it had multiple intelligence sources that had confirmed that Islamic Jihad, and not Israel, were responsible, despite accusations by Hamas and some other countries.
Only a couple of hours before, the door seemed to be left open by the IDF spokesman's office, which said it needed to study the issue. But already some time into the controversy videos and hints emerged matching a failed rocket launch to the timing of the hospital being hit.
It was also possible that the rocket hit a nearby ammunition depot which then destroyed the hospital.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 17, 2023, 07:55:08 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 17, 2023, 06:53:57 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2023, 06:46:33 PMa few sources include ministry of Health Gaza on twitter reporting Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital has been targeted by Israel and estimates between 300-500 dead and injured.
reported in the journal now.
Evil bastards.
Horrific.
Sky saying it could be up to 800 now. Both sides blaming the other for the missile.
Israel digital spokesperson tweeted the Israeli Air Force hit a Hamas base in the hospital, then deleted the tweet.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2023, 09:36:05 PMIsrael digital spokesperson tweeted the Israeli Air Force hit a Hamas base in the hospital, then deleted the tweet.
Oopsies
Quote from: johnnycool on October 17, 2023, 09:13:41 PMQuote from: trailer on October 17, 2023, 08:50:54 PMWe'll remember the state of Israel the same as we remember the Nazis. I have no doubt Israel plan to wipe the Palestinians off the face of the earth.
Big push now from Israel in the disinformation front now saying it was a barrage of misfiring Hamas rockets to Hamas had explosives stored in the hospital, completely forgetting that they issued a warning to evacuate the hospital earlier in the day...
Neytanyahu should be in front of the Haig
It's more likely he'll get the Nobel peace prize.
Bombing a hospital full of casualties put in there by them. Israel is a terrorist state following Nazi tactics. Absolute scum
Quote from: dec on October 17, 2023, 09:25:59 PMHere is the Jerusalem Post report on the hospital bomb
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-768879
The IDF confirmed last Tuesday night that Islamic Jihad's failed rocket had destroyed a Gaza hospital, leading to a still unclear number of deaths.
The IDF said that it had multiple intelligence sources that had confirmed that Islamic Jihad, and not Israel, were responsible, despite accusations by Hamas and some other countries.
Only a couple of hours before, the door seemed to be left open by the IDF spokesman's office, which said it needed to study the issue. But already some time into the controversy videos and hints emerged matching a failed rocket launch to the timing of the hospital being hit.
It was also possible that the rocket hit a nearby ammunition depot which then destroyed the hospital.
You cannot believe anything these people say.
I wouldn't trust those Zionist c***ts as far as I could throw them
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19 (https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19)
I have no idea if this video is of Gaza or is from today, but if its accurate, then looks like a rocket fired from Palestine that failed
The scenes are horrendous, and once they go in, it will be far worse
This will create a Middle East cluster f**k..
Could possibly increase likely attacks in major cities in the world
Can't see any chances of a ceasefire even in the long term
We could be looking at the annihilation of the Palestinian people. History will not look kindly on the enablers of this.
Not a peep from Bryson on Twitter.
Israel's grip on the narrative is as strong as ever. Even I'm afraid to post anything in support of Palestine at the minute.
QuoteMainz suspend Anwar El Ghazi for 'unacceptable' post on Israel-Hamas war (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/17/mainz-suspend-anwar-el-ghazi-for-unacceptable-post-on-israel-hamas-war)
The former Aston Villa winger Anwar El Ghazi has been suspended by Mainz over a social media post relating to the conflict in Israel and Gaza.
The 28-year-old Dutchman, who joined Mainz last month, has since deleted the pro-Palestinian post, the content of which was deemed "unacceptable" by his club.
I'm having a hard time finding the original post. None of the media outlets that I've looked at so far have reported what he actually said.
Quote from: Tubberman on October 17, 2023, 10:31:05 PMhttps://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19 (https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19)
I have no idea if this video is of Gaza or is from today, but if its accurate, then looks like a rocket fired from Palestine that failed
When I heard of this blast I certainly thought such a thing was possible, on the basis that the Israelis would not do this the day before Biden visits, as it would not suit the propoganda. But no Hamas rocket has even killed anywhere near 500 people, so I await some further information.
Paddy Cosgrave of Web Summit fame had this to say on Twitter:
Quote"I'm shocked at the rhetoric and actions of so many Western leaders & governments, with the exception in particular of Ireland's government, who for once are doing the right thing,
War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies, and should be called out for what they are."
Multiple tech firms pulled out of the conference, some saying they'll never do business with him again. He's been forced into retracting the comments and apologising.
From Canada (I don't know what these acronyms mean):
QuoteHamilton Centre NDP MPP Sarah Jama is apologizing after making a statement about the conflict between Hamas and Israel in which she voiced her support for the people of Gaza.
Her apology comes after Ontario Premier Doug Ford called for Jama's resignation and Ontario NDP leader Marit Stiles called for her to retract the remarks.
Her remarks:
"The news coming out of Israel and Palestine is deeply concerning" and called for an immediate ceasefire, as well as an "end to all occupation of Palestinian land."
Her original statement focused largely on the Palestinian territories, saying "violence and retaliation rooted in settler colonialism have taken the lives of far too many innocent people."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/sarah-jama-gaza-statement-1.6992654
If any of you think that bomb in hospital was an Hamas rocket then there is no hope for you.
Some restaurant owner had this to say:
Quote"The More Utterly Repugnant The Facts, The Greater The Responsibility Becomes To Listen To The Other Side."
He was immediately set upon with boycott threats from pro-Israeli groups, and forced to apologise and delete his comments.
Quote from: Tubberman on October 17, 2023, 10:31:05 PMhttps://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19 (https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19)
I have no idea if this video is of Gaza or is from today, but if its accurate, then looks like a rocket fired from Palestine that failed
Hey everyone
Here's a video
I've added some text
Being in possession of neither data nor expertise, I actually haven't a f**king scooby doo whether it shows what I say it shows
But I'll say it anyway
Seems like the "40 beheaded babies" story was BS all along. Shame the retractions won't get as much prominence as the initial story. The myth is now out there for all time.
CNN journalist apologises for repeating claim Hamas beheaded babies (https://www.newarab.com/news/cnn-journalist-apologises-claiming-hamas-beheaded-babies)
Samira Nasr, editor of Harper's Bazaar, had this to say:
QuoteCutting off water and electricity to 2.2 million civilians ... This is the most inhuman thing I've seen in my life
She's now fighting for her job and apologising left right and centre.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 17, 2023, 10:45:42 PMQuote from: Tubberman on October 17, 2023, 10:31:05 PMhttps://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19 (https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19)
I have no idea if this video is of Gaza or is from today, but if its accurate, then looks like a rocket fired from Palestine that failed
When I heard of this blast I certainly thought such a thing was possible, on the basis that the Israelis would not do this the day before Biden visits, as it would not suit the propoganda. But no Hamas rocket has even killed anywhere near 500 people, so I await some further information.
I wouldn't rule anything out, rockets are firing from all sides but Israels media posting are all over the place, quite a few edits and deletions and changing narrative, they asked for an evacuation of the hosipital, we hit Hamas at the hospital, it was Hamas, it was PIJ.
As you state any rocket I have ever seen that landed in Israel has not come near causing that much damage. Israel has long history of burying the truth too.
U.S. Rep. Pramila Jayapal, a Washington Democrat and the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, has had to apologise for saying that Israel is a racist state.
https://twitter.com/hebh_jamal/status/1714379447296532606?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1714379447296532606%7Ctwgr%5E6443d3d14169ad60916fbe08d3a3095b10ece99e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage73 (https://twitter.com/hebh_jamal/status/1714379447296532606?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1714379447296532606%7Ctwgr%5E6443d3d14169ad60916fbe08d3a3095b10ece99e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage73)
Apparently the time stamp on the video (supposedly showing the hospital was hit by Hamas rockets misfiring) doesn't fit with the time of explosion.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 17, 2023, 10:45:42 PMBut no Hamas rocket has even killed anywhere near 500 people, so I await some further information.
Has a Hamas rocket ever hit a target with hundreds of people crowded into a small area?
I think the death toll has more to do with the target than the size of the rocket.
protests outside isreali consulate in istanbul
Just out of interest, are there any everyday products grown/manufactured in Israel, that I need to avoid?
The world needs to shun and boycott anything that comes from there.
It won't stop the warmongering bastids , but ordinary people need to do something
Quote from: dec on October 17, 2023, 11:24:03 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 17, 2023, 10:45:42 PMBut no Hamas rocket has even killed anywhere near 500 people, so I await some further information.
Has a Hamas rocket ever hit a target with hundreds of people crowded into a small area?
I think the death toll has more to do with the target than the size of the rocklet.
I doubt any of us one here is an expert. Rocket fire from Hamas etc. that I have seen don't have huge explosions like the hospital explosion on impact. their spokesperson saying they targeted hamas in the hospital and the deleting it says a lot but maybe not it all..
BDS is a good place to get a list to boycott,
https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2023, 09:36:05 PMIsrael digital spokesperson tweeted the Israeli Air Force hit a Hamas base in the hospital, then deleted the tweet.
f**k the western media. Those bastards in Israel are 100x worse than Putin and Russia.
https://twitter.com/KeithWoodsYT/status/1714395174527254844
@KeithWoodsYT
🇮🇱🇵🇸 MORE PROOF ISRAEL BLEW UP THE HOSPITAL
The bomb used on the hospital in Gaza appears to be a so-called "joint direct attack munition" or JDAM, which the US has faced criticism for supplying to Israel.
Regev gaslighting https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1714375618983236061
@EmmanuelMacron
Nothing can justify striking a hospital. Nothing can justify targeting civilians. France condemns the attack on the Al-Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza, which made so many Palestinian victims. Our thoughts are with them. All the light must be shed on the circumstances
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 17, 2023, 10:44:45 PMIsrael's grip on the narrative is as strong as ever. Even I'm afraid to post anything in support of Palestine at the minute.
QuoteMainz suspend Anwar El Ghazi for 'unacceptable' post on Israel-Hamas war (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/17/mainz-suspend-anwar-el-ghazi-for-unacceptable-post-on-israel-hamas-war)
The former Aston Villa winger Anwar El Ghazi has been suspended by Mainz over a social media post relating to the conflict in Israel and Gaza.
The 28-year-old Dutchman, who joined Mainz last month, has since deleted the pro-Palestinian post, the content of which was deemed "unacceptable" by his club.
I'm having a hard time finding the original post. None of the media outlets that I've looked at so far have reported what he actually said.
He'd be as well sticking to his guns and looking for a new club. Be great if a Saudi club came in and gave him a clean fortune! Germans and their Holocaust shame.
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 17, 2023, 11:30:28 PMJust out of interest, are there any everyday products grown/manufactured in Israel, that I need to avoid?
The world needs to shun and boycott anything that comes from there.
It won't stop the warmongering bastids , but ordinary people need to do something
I know there was a campaign here years ago to boycott Israeli grown dates. Suppose they don't need to export much with Uncle Sam paying the bills.
Quote from: seafoid on October 18, 2023, 02:01:08 AMhttps://twitter.com/KeithWoodsYT/status/1714395174527254844
@KeithWoodsYT
🇮🇱🇵🇸 MORE PROOF ISRAEL BLEW UP THE HOSPITAL
The bomb used on the hospital in Gaza appears to be a so-called "joint direct attack munition" or JDAM, which the US has faced criticism for supplying to Israel.
Regev gaslighting https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1714375618983236061
@EmmanuelMacron
Nothing can justify striking a hospital. Nothing can justify targeting civilians. France condemns the attack on the Al-Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza, which made so many Palestinian victims. Our thoughts are with them. All the light must be shed on the circumstances
Shouldn't Macron be cancelled now??
Quote from: Itchy on October 17, 2023, 10:55:30 PMIf any of you think that bomb in hospital was an Hamas rocket then there is no hope for you.
And I have a bridge to sell you.
Unless the Israelis blow it up first.
If Hamas or the Islamic front can manufacture missiles for water pipes that have this sort of power then Israel would have ceased to exist long before now!
JDAM (https://twitter.com/i/status/1714378434623795248)
Israel has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
It's really at this point no matter who or how this has happened, the casualties from here on in will mainly be innocents, if Biden has any clout then he needs to use if to stop this carnage
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
Yeah right.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 18, 2023, 02:05:32 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 17, 2023, 11:30:28 PMJust out of interest, are there any everyday products grown/manufactured in Israel, that I need to avoid?
The world needs to shun and boycott anything that comes from there.
It won't stop the warmongering bastids , but ordinary people need to do something
I know there was a campaign here years ago to boycott Israeli grown dates. Suppose they don't need to export much with Uncle Sam paying the bills.
https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott
I'm mindful of what I say because there's so many different sides to this but I was listening to the radio on the way to work this morning and there was an Israeli major on. If his attitude is what is being 'allowed' on the main stream media outlets christ knows what's going on in the background. Honestly believe that Biden needs to push hard here for a humanitarian cease fire at a minimum as this is going to spiral completely out of control.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 17, 2023, 10:46:49 PMPaddy Cosgrave of Web Summit fame had this to say on Twitter:
Quote"I'm shocked at the rhetoric and actions of so many Western leaders & governments, with the exception in particular of Ireland's government, who for once are doing the right thing,
War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies, and should be called out for what they are."
Multiple tech firms pulled out of the conference, some saying they'll never do business with him again. He's been forced into retracting the comments and apologising.
Paddy was very outspoken on lots of things especially political. It was only a matter of time until he pissed a lot of people off. When you are in business you need to thread a fine line with politics because people will have different opinions and this conflict is hugely divisive. He's finding that out the hard way.
Quote from: Tubberman on October 17, 2023, 10:31:05 PMhttps://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19 (https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1714377828131553446?t=fdQy_2ctTLWjwAkCdYdTHw&s=19)
I have no idea if this video is of Gaza or is from today, but if its accurate, then looks like a rocket fired from Palestine that failed
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
Yeah and no sooner had the last shots been fired in Derry on Bloody Sunday than the British Army began saturating the airways with their lies. It's the same old story.
When was the last time a Palestinian rocket hitting Israel killed more than 5 people, let alone 500 people?
Between 2004-2014, a timeframe which inclues the 2014 war which resulted in a massive escalation in the level of rocket fire, Hammas is estimated to have fired at least 20,000 rockets towards Israel. The death toll from these rockets stood at 27 Israeli civilians, 5 foreign nationals, 5 IDF soldiers, and approximately 11 Palestinians.
So it took Hamas 10 years and over 20,000 rockets to kill 48 people, and now we're expected to believe that they just killed at least 500 with one stray rocket?
Anyone re-spewing Israeli lies and black propaganda needs to cop the f**K on to themselves!!
RTE are doing a he said she said on the Hospital bombing. The Israeli BS comes first.
Biden says the Palestinians did it. Macron says it has to be investigated. France has millions of Muslims.
Israel will insist on a Jewish investigator who will exonerate Israel.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 18, 2023, 08:18:01 AMIf Hamas or the Islamic front can manufacture missiles for water pipes that have this sort of power then Israel would have ceased to exist long before now!
JDAM (https://twitter.com/i/status/1714378434623795248)
Sugar can create nuclear fission
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 17, 2023, 10:59:44 PMSeems like the "40 beheaded babies" story was BS all along. Shame the retractions won't get as much prominence as the initial story. The myth is now out there for all time.
CNN journalist apologises for repeating claim Hamas beheaded babies (https://www.newarab.com/news/cnn-journalist-apologises-claiming-hamas-beheaded-babies)
the story about mass rapes was also BS.
Israel is dehumanising the Palestinians ahead of mass murder
Quote from: seafoid on October 18, 2023, 10:05:06 AMRTE are doing a he said she said on the Hospital bombing. The Israeli BS comes first.
Biden says the Palestinians did it. Macron says it has to be investigated. France has millions of Muslims.
Israel will insist on a Jewish investigator who will exonerate Israel.
I went to the Fox news website to see their take on who dunnit. It was predictable.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2023, 10:16:55 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 18, 2023, 10:05:06 AMRTE are doing a he said she said on the Hospital bombing. The Israeli BS comes first.
Biden says the Palestinians did it. Macron says it has to be investigated. France has millions of Muslims.
Israel will insist on a Jewish investigator who will exonerate Israel.
I went to the Fox news website to see their take on who dunnit. It was predictable.
Why bother?
Again it really doesn't matter at this point, the loss of life now and what will happen should they go in will be tenfold to what happened at the hospital.
The IDF will say different till they are blue in the face, the attitude of one caller from Israel on 5 live this morning was very disturbing, was really like thinly veiled threats to the media and particularly the BBC for how they were 'allowing' 'Hamas' people (it wasn't) to speak, Rick was a bit taken aback from it in fairness.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2023, 08:39:59 AMIt's really at this point no matter who or how this has happened, the casualties from here on in will mainly be innocents, if Biden has any clout then he needs to use if to stop this carnage
Sadly it's always the innocents that suffer in war.
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
It doesnt
The attack by Hamas on innocent Israelis was abhorrent.
What the Israeli state are doing now is aligned to the actions of the Nazi party in WW2. It's genocide, the murder of innocent civilians, the dehumanising of a race of people, the propaganda and lies. This is shooting fish in a barrel. Using the Hamas attack as whattaboutery does not justify the actions of the Israeli state now, or over the last 50 years.
And the West is enabling it. The only reason I see for this is fear of being called out as being anti-Semitic.
It's an utterly disgraceful situation and those poor people of Palestine are suffering and will continue to do so while the US supplies Israel with weapons and the EU and UK back them.
If I was an innocent Palestinian, stuck in that situation with no way out, my instinct would be to fight back. Join Hamas or other forces which will fight back against the aggressor. This type of naked aggression against innocent people will be the best recruitment drive for Hamas and others in memory, it will solve nothing but perhaps temporarily sate the Israeli want for revenge.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 18, 2023, 10:16:55 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 18, 2023, 10:05:06 AMRTE are doing a he said she said on the Hospital bombing. The Israeli BS comes first.
Biden says the Palestinians did it. Macron says it has to be investigated. France has millions of Muslims.
Israel will insist on a Jewish investigator who will exonerate Israel.
I went to the Fox news website to see their take on who dunnit. It was predictable.
Murdoch is Jewish. He's not going to side with anyone else in this conflict no matter the truth.
I see the plastic paddy w**ker Joe Biden towing the line with Israel. f**k him and f**k America
Quote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 10:58:29 AMI see the plastic paddy w**ker Joe Biden towing the line with Israel. f**k him and f**k America
Embarrassing to see him crawling up the War Criminal's behind
Quote from: armaghniac on October 17, 2023, 09:23:44 PMIsrael claim that Hamas rockets fired near the hospital misfired.
International experts need to go in and sort out these stories.
Israel originally claimed the strike as having hit a Hamas Cell, then deleted the tweet when the civilian casualties came to light.
Quote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 10:58:29 AMI see the plastic paddy w**ker Joe Biden towing the line with Israel. f**k him and f**k America
In fairness sleepy Joe hasn't a clue where he is.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 18, 2023, 11:12:51 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 17, 2023, 09:23:44 PMIsrael claim that Hamas rockets fired near the hospital misfired.
International experts need to go in and sort out these stories.
Israel originally claimed the strike as having hit a Hamas Cell, then deleted the tweet when the civilian casualties came to light.
Sure they originally warned people to evacuate the hospital yesterday.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 18, 2023, 11:12:51 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 17, 2023, 09:23:44 PMIsrael claim that Hamas rockets fired near the hospital misfired.
International experts need to go in and sort out these stories.
Israel originally claimed the strike as having hit a Hamas Cell, then deleted the tweet when the civilian casualties came to light.
But surely they knew it was a hospital, and whether there was a Hams cell in there or not that civilian casualties would happen!
Was there a screen capture of the tweet with a time stamp on it?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 18, 2023, 09:30:42 AMI'm mindful of what I say because there's so many different sides to this but I was listening to the radio on the way to work this morning and there was an Israeli major on. If his attitude is what is being 'allowed' on the main stream media outlets christ knows what's going on in the background. Honestly believe that Biden needs to push hard here for a humanitarian cease fire at a minimum as this is going to spiral completely out of control.
When he came on I switched to the Black Crowes, I can't listen to these Israeli Nazi's, same last night on Newsnight. Hamas are the UDA of Palestine but the collective killing of innocent people is horrific.
some are saying the invasion has been delayed because they think hezbollah going to launch a major assualt once they are in gaza
Quote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 10:31:13 AMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
It doesnt
So you just automatically believe the Hamas explanation?
As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
I don't know whether it's Hamas or Israel that is bald faced lying about the hospital massacre. The key factor seems to be whether the hospital is standing or not. Israel says any structural damage is minor, whereas if it was their missiles it would be destroyed. They say the car park took the brunt, yet there is no crater. Therefore they say it was Palestinian rockets and that the accelerant/fuel caused as much damage as the rockets themselves as they had been launched close by. And then there was multiple small explosions as vehicles went up and fires started, that did reach the hospital. Most people who died were taking shelter in the car park rather than in the hospital. They say they welcome independent media to visit the site but Hamas are trying to seal it off to prevent this.
Unlike Netanyahu, who seemed to be implying Hamas deliberately targeted the hospital to gain sympathy etc, the IDF spokesman was clear this was a misfiring Palestinian rocket aimed at Israel.
I don't know what happened to the hospital but I'm prepared to listen to both sides with an open mind. Apart from mowing down the initial Hamas killers, I've been very much against the Israeli response, but blaming them for an atrocity before there's anything close to proof will only backfire
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4idQbwsvtUo
Why does morgan keep bringing on guest that can rip him to shreds.
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 10:31:13 AMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
It doesnt
So you just automatically believe the Hamas explanation?
As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
I don't know whether it's Hamas or Israel that is bald faced lying about the hospital massacre. The key factor seems to be whether the hospital is standing or not. Israel says any structural damage is minor, whereas if it was their missiles it would be destroyed. They say the car park took the brunt, yet there is no crater. Therefore they say it was Palestinian rockets and that the accelerant/fuel caused as much damage as the rockets themselves as they had been launched close by. And then there was multiple small explosions as vehicles went up and fires started, that did reach the hospital. Most people who died were taking shelter in the car park rather than in the hospital. They say they welcome independent media to visit the site but Hamas are trying to seal it off to prevent this.
Unlike Netanyahu, who seemed to be implying Hamas deliberately targeted the hospital to gain sympathy etc, the IDF spokesman was clear this was a misfiring Palestinian rocket aimed at Israel.
I don't know what happened to the hospital but I'm prepared to listen to both sides with an open mind. Apart from mowing down the initial Hamas killers, I've been very much against the Israeli response, but blaming them for an atrocity before there's anything close to proof will only backfire
Did members of the Israeli ministry tweet that a hospital had been hit by their rockets and then delete the tweet?
Quote from: Taylor on October 18, 2023, 12:11:54 PMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 10:31:13 AMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
It doesnt
So you just automatically believe the Hamas explanation?
As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
I don't know whether it's Hamas or Israel that is bald faced lying about the hospital massacre. The key factor seems to be whether the hospital is standing or not. Israel says any structural damage is minor, whereas if it was their missiles it would be destroyed. They say the car park took the brunt, yet there is no crater. Therefore they say it was Palestinian rockets and that the accelerant/fuel caused as much damage as the rockets themselves as they had been launched close by. And then there was multiple small explosions as vehicles went up and fires started, that did reach the hospital. Most people who died were taking shelter in the car park rather than in the hospital. They say they welcome independent media to visit the site but Hamas are trying to seal it off to prevent this.
Unlike Netanyahu, who seemed to be implying Hamas deliberately targeted the hospital to gain sympathy etc, the IDF spokesman was clear this was a misfiring Palestinian rocket aimed at Israel.
I don't know what happened to the hospital but I'm prepared to listen to both sides with an open mind. Apart from mowing down the initial Hamas killers, I've been very much against the Israeli response, but blaming them for an atrocity before there's anything close to proof will only backfire
Did members of the Israeli ministry tweet that a hospital had been hit by their rockets and then delete the tweet?
They issued a warning to evacuate it apparently.
I thought it's was interesting that Israel are blaming Islamic jihad rather than Hamas.
On a separate issue I don't think the Arabs should have cancelled the meetings with Biden even in the circumstances.
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 10:31:13 AMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
It doesnt
So you just automatically believe the Hamas explanation?
As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
I don't know whether it's Hamas or Israel that is bald faced lying about the hospital massacre. The key factor seems to be whether the hospital is standing or not. Israel says any structural damage is minor, whereas if it was their missiles it would be destroyed. They say the car park took the brunt, yet there is no crater. Therefore they say it was Palestinian rockets and that the accelerant/fuel caused as much damage as the rockets themselves as they had been launched close by. And then there was multiple small explosions as vehicles went up and fires started, that did reach the hospital. Most people who died were taking shelter in the car park rather than in the hospital. They say they welcome independent media to visit the site but Hamas are trying to seal it off to prevent this.
Unlike Netanyahu, who seemed to be implying Hamas deliberately targeted the hospital to gain sympathy etc, the IDF spokesman was clear this was a misfiring Palestinian rocket aimed at Israel.
I don't know what happened to the hospital but I'm prepared to listen to both sides with an open mind. Apart from mowing down the initial Hamas killers, I've been very much against the Israeli response, but blaming them for an atrocity before there's anything close to proof will only backfire
Because Hound, on two separate tweets immediately after the blast Israeli forces admitted hitting the hospital and even boasted about it. One said that "we heard there are no medical supplies in the hospital so we decided to put them out of their misery" (this one was on their arabic channel). Plenty of screen grabs taken online. Then they deleted those messages and put up a video supposedly showing a Hamas rocket doing the damage but a journalist pointed out the time stamp was 40 mins after the event. So that was deleted too. Now we just have words from them saying their intelligence says it was a islamic jihad group. Its complete lies and I repeat, if you believe anything Israel says you are an idiot.
Quote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 12:28:35 PMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 10:31:13 AMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
It doesnt
So you just automatically believe the Hamas explanation?
As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
I don't know whether it's Hamas or Israel that is bald faced lying about the hospital massacre. The key factor seems to be whether the hospital is standing or not. Israel says any structural damage is minor, whereas if it was their missiles it would be destroyed. They say the car park took the brunt, yet there is no crater. Therefore they say it was Palestinian rockets and that the accelerant/fuel caused as much damage as the rockets themselves as they had been launched close by. And then there was multiple small explosions as vehicles went up and fires started, that did reach the hospital. Most people who died were taking shelter in the car park rather than in the hospital. They say they welcome independent media to visit the site but Hamas are trying to seal it off to prevent this.
Unlike Netanyahu, who seemed to be implying Hamas deliberately targeted the hospital to gain sympathy etc, the IDF spokesman was clear this was a misfiring Palestinian rocket aimed at Israel.
I don't know what happened to the hospital but I'm prepared to listen to both sides with an open mind. Apart from mowing down the initial Hamas killers, I've been very much against the Israeli response, but blaming them for an atrocity before there's anything close to proof will only backfire
Because Hound, on two separate tweets immediately after the blast Israeli forces admitted hitting the hospital and even boasted about it. One said that "we heard there are no medical supplies in the hospital so we decided to put them out of their misery" (this one was on their arabic channel). Plenty of screen grabs taken online. Then they deleted those messages and put up a video supposedly showing a Hamas rocket doing the damage but a journalist pointed out the time stamp was 40 mins after the event. So that was deleted too. Now we just have words from them saying their intelligence says it was a islamic jihad group. Its complete lies and I repeat, if you believe anything Israel says you are an idiot.
Your last line is hilarious given the rest of your response is 100% social media unsubstantiated nonsense.
As I said above, I'm not on the side of the Israelis and am sickened by the collective punishment attacks they are undertaking, but we'll wait and see whether the Israeli explanation re the hospital holds water, and I think the truth will come out this time. But feel free to believe everything Hamas says!
Why not debate the points actually raised in an official public forum in relation to the hospital massacre rather than pointing to social media nonsense? I'm very interested to hear other points of view, but I certainly don't believe what I read on social media, deleted tweets, unofficial accounts, etc, etc.
Quote from: dec on October 18, 2023, 12:18:12 PMI thought it's was interesting that Israel are blaming Islamic jihad rather than Hamas.
On a separate issue I don't think the Arabs should have cancelled the meetings with Biden even in the circumstances.
Not only that but also that it was an accident. I think they are using this as an opportunity to tell a truth that holds up, which they can use to their advantage later. But we'll see.
Another thing the IDF spokesman said that was interesting was he didn't blame Egypt, Jordan, UAE at all for jumping to the conclusion that Israel did it but now that their new evidence will show them the truth.
Al Jazeera are still going all-in that Israel deliberately bombed the hospital.
One of their reporters earlier speculated that one of the reasons the Arabs won't speak to Biden as initially planned is that Biden is not ready to call for a ceasefire yet.
Hospital explosion and Hamas rocket context...
https://twitter.com/AllezLesBoulez/status/1714378224099053600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1714378224099053600%7Ctwgr%5E0d31a1f3baa970f5804663ec9c7875afae268d77%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage73 (https://twitter.com/AllezLesBoulez/status/1714378224099053600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1714378224099053600%7Ctwgr%5E0d31a1f3baa970f5804663ec9c7875afae268d77%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage73)
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 10:31:13 AMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
It doesnt
So you just automatically believe the Hamas explanation?
As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
I don't know whether it's Hamas or Israel that is bald faced lying about the hospital massacre. The key factor seems to be whether the hospital is standing or not. Israel says any structural damage is minor, whereas if it was their missiles it would be destroyed. They say the car park took the brunt, yet there is no crater. Therefore they say it was Palestinian rockets and that the accelerant/fuel caused as much damage as the rockets themselves as they had been launched close by. And then there was multiple small explosions as vehicles went up and fires started, that did reach the hospital. Most people who died were taking shelter in the car park rather than in the hospital. They say they welcome independent media to visit the site but Hamas are trying to seal it off to prevent this.
Unlike Netanyahu, who seemed to be implying Hamas deliberately targeted the hospital to gain sympathy etc, the IDF spokesman was clear this was a misfiring Palestinian rocket aimed at Israel.
I don't know what happened to the hospital but I'm prepared to listen to both sides with an open mind. Apart from mowing down the initial Hamas killers, I've been very much against the Israeli response, but blaming them for an atrocity before there's anything close to proof will only backfire
I dont now what to believe in this instant. Usually I dont believeanything Israel say bit as you point out theyre being very open/ Both are plausible I think
Israel: Yeah, we bombed Northern Gaza to rubble, back to the stone age. And we bombed parts of Southern Gaza (yeah, the part we told everyone to go to). But the hospital? Nah, that was someone else.
People will believe whatever version of events that fuels their narrative
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 01:28:02 PMPeople will believe whatever version of events that fuels their narrative
Idiots will
In the absence of definitive proof, anyone with a brain will look at the available evidence and history and make a decision on where the truth lies
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 12:50:02 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 12:28:35 PMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 10:31:13 AMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 08:28:21 AMIsrael has just released what 'looks to be' compelling evidence that the hospital explosion was caused by misfiring Islamic jihad rockets from a nearby cemetery and not by Israel. We'll see if it stands up.
Like everything in this conflict, it's horrific
It doesnt
So you just automatically believe the Hamas explanation?
As the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
I don't know whether it's Hamas or Israel that is bald faced lying about the hospital massacre. The key factor seems to be whether the hospital is standing or not. Israel says any structural damage is minor, whereas if it was their missiles it would be destroyed. They say the car park took the brunt, yet there is no crater. Therefore they say it was Palestinian rockets and that the accelerant/fuel caused as much damage as the rockets themselves as they had been launched close by. And then there was multiple small explosions as vehicles went up and fires started, that did reach the hospital. Most people who died were taking shelter in the car park rather than in the hospital. They say they welcome independent media to visit the site but Hamas are trying to seal it off to prevent this.
Unlike Netanyahu, who seemed to be implying Hamas deliberately targeted the hospital to gain sympathy etc, the IDF spokesman was clear this was a misfiring Palestinian rocket aimed at Israel.
I don't know what happened to the hospital but I'm prepared to listen to both sides with an open mind. Apart from mowing down the initial Hamas killers, I've been very much against the Israeli response, but blaming them for an atrocity before there's anything close to proof will only backfire
Because Hound, on two separate tweets immediately after the blast Israeli forces admitted hitting the hospital and even boasted about it. One said that "we heard there are no medical supplies in the hospital so we decided to put them out of their misery" (this one was on their arabic channel). Plenty of screen grabs taken online. Then they deleted those messages and put up a video supposedly showing a Hamas rocket doing the damage but a journalist pointed out the time stamp was 40 mins after the event. So that was deleted too. Now we just have words from them saying their intelligence says it was a islamic jihad group. Its complete lies and I repeat, if you believe anything Israel says you are an idiot.
Your last line is hilarious given the rest of your response is 100% social media unsubstantiated nonsense.
As I said above, I'm not on the side of the Israelis and am sickened by the collective punishment attacks they are undertaking, but we'll wait and see whether the Israeli explanation re the hospital holds water, and I think the truth will come out this time. But feel free to believe everything Hamas says!
Why not debate the points actually raised in an official public forum in relation to the hospital massacre rather than pointing to social media nonsense? I'm very interested to hear other points of view, but I certainly don't believe what I read on social media, deleted tweets, unofficial accounts, etc, etc.
It is social media from Israels defense forces that was posted as the strike happened. Its there for you to see if you have the brains to work a phone or laptop.
Doctors Without Borders have made the following statement.
"Doctors in Gaza are now carrying out operations without anaesthetics."
https://twitter.com/EmergMedDr/status/1714604300033224753?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1714604300033224753%7Ctwgr%5E403016bec96fea989032cd7fbac8f20b12ed1688%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage75 (https://twitter.com/EmergMedDr/status/1714604300033224753?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1714604300033224753%7Ctwgr%5E403016bec96fea989032cd7fbac8f20b12ed1688%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.onetouchfootball.com%2Fforum%2Fone-touch-football%2Fworld%2F2124229-israel%2Fpage75)
From Jonathan Cook
Let's say it again: The BIGGEST fake news comes from the establishment media. When the stakes are high, it barely bothers to hide its role as mouthpiece for Western propaganda.
This is another Iraqi WMD moment. We are being gaslit. Believe your eyes and ears, and the laws of physics, not the lies being peddled by our leaders and media about last night's missile strike on the Baptist hospital in Gaza:
1. No Palestinian group has a rocket that can hit a hospital, killing hundreds. What they have are glorified fireworks that can cause minor damage and the occasional death or two. If Hamas or Islamic Jihad could cause the kind of damage that happened last night, you would hear about it happening in Tel Aviv or Ashkelon too. You don't because they can't.
2. Israel's apologists (and there are lots of them) are sharing all sorts of videos unrelated to the hospital strike. But the video of the strike itself shows that an incredibly large and powerful weapon is used. Listen to the noise the missile makes just before the hit – that whooshing noise is caused by its phenomenal velocity as it cuts through the air. That is *not* the noise of a falling Palestinian rocket.
If you watch videos being shared of Palestinian rockets being fired, notice how slowly they travel. Almost at a snail's pace. If they fail, they drop at free fall speed, not the near-supersonic speed of the missile that hit the hospital. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the laws of physics.
3. Israel's apologists are trying to further muddy the waters by suggesting that either a Palestinian rocket fell, or was intercepted, and the rocket or fragments of it hit a very large ammo dump in the hospital. Let's just accept the racist premise that hundreds of families were quite happy to seek safety next to a huge stash of explosives in the middle of a relentless Israeli bombing campaign. Let's also accept the fantastical idea that a falling glorified firework or fragment of it could penetrate the hospital's strong walls and set off such an explosion. If all this was true, you would still see a series of secondary explosions as the arms were detonated by the initial explosion. You don't because there is only one explosion – from an enormous missile.
4. It's a desperate psyop, so Israel has now released a recording of two Hamas militants conveniently having a chat after the missile strike, discussing whether they or Islamic Jihad did it. This is the same Israel that did not detect months of planning by Hamas that was needed to organise its breakout 10 days ago. But Israel got lucky this time, it seems, and just happened to be listening in when Huey and Louie decided to self-incriminate.
Remember Israel has a whole unit of 'mistaravim', Israeli Jewish undercover agents trained to pose as Palestinians and secretly operate among Palestinians. Israel produced a highly popular TV series about such people in Gaza called Fauda. You have to be beyond credulous to think that Israel couldn't, and wouldn't, rig up a call like this to fool us, just as it regularly fools Palestinians in Gaza.
Most of the people spreading these lies know they are lies, including the media, and most especially the Middle East and defence correspondents. At least a few, like the BBC's Jeremy Bowen and Jon Donnison, are trying cautiously to suggest it's unlikely a Hamas rocket could cause damage on the scale seen at the Gaza hospital. But it's not unlikely. It's impossible, and they know it. They just don't dare say it.
Let's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
As Frankie Boyle said, Israel could say a dragon blew up the hospital and people would believe them.
Quote from: dec on October 18, 2023, 12:18:12 PMI thought it's was interesting that Israel are blaming Islamic jihad rather than Hamas.
On a separate issue I don't think the Arabs should have cancelled the meetings with Biden even in the circumstances.
The US aren't some neutral arbiter in all this, they're very much involved on the Israeli side.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Was thinking that myself, the plight of the Palestinians has always resonated strongly with the Irish for obvious reasons. He should be told to f..k off next time.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 18, 2023, 02:31:52 PMQuote from: dec on October 18, 2023, 12:18:12 PMI thought it's was interesting that Israel are blaming Islamic jihad rather than Hamas.
On a separate issue I don't think the Arabs should have cancelled the meetings with Biden even in the circumstances.
The US aren't some neutral arbiter in all this, they're very much involved on the Israeli side.
From a geopolitical point of view American and European support for Israeli sadism is really f**king dangerous in the Global South. Trump already did a lot of damage on top of the Iraq war and the failure of US foreign policy in Libya.
The Americans have bases in places like Turkey and Iraq. What non white people see is a racist system run by privileged white people abusing brown people and full throated American and Euro support. Nobody in Morocco or Indonesia believes that Islamic Jihad bombed the hospital. Israelis can gaslight English speakers but most people in the world are not fluent English speakers.
Our own history was full of this stuff. It's still in the music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P40YOU8ggJk
This is a really good take on economic history in Scotland and Ireland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTEKtsmk14&t=80s
Some people may decide to take matters into their own hands.
Ah it'd be a bit naive to think that Biden or any previous US president gave two hoots about ordinary people in the Middle East.
Israel has strategic importance for the US in the region and that determines policy. As Biden has said more than once down through the years; if Israel didn't exist they'd have to invent one.
In saying that, he definitely doesn't like Netanyahu and he has been mentioning innocent Palestinians more than Sunak or Von Der Leyen, so if it did turn out the Israelis took out that hospital, I think his tone would change. And worth noting that while he did say it looks like the 'other team' did it that there were some who believed otherwise so they have more work to do to prove it.
Quote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 01:58:20 PMFrom Jonathan Cook
Let's say it again: The BIGGEST fake news comes from the establishment media. When the stakes are high, it barely bothers to hide its role as mouthpiece for Western propaganda.
This is another Iraqi WMD moment. We are being gaslit. Believe your eyes and ears, and the laws of physics, not the lies being peddled by our leaders and media about last night's missile strike on the Baptist hospital in Gaza:
1. No Palestinian group has a rocket that can hit a hospital, killing hundreds. What they have are glorified fireworks that can cause minor damage and the occasional death or two. If Hamas or Islamic Jihad could cause the kind of damage that happened last night, you would hear about it happening in Tel Aviv or Ashkelon too. You don't because they can't.
2. Israel's apologists (and there are lots of them) are sharing all sorts of videos unrelated to the hospital strike. But the video of the strike itself shows that an incredibly large and powerful weapon is used. Listen to the noise the missile makes just before the hit – that whooshing noise is caused by its phenomenal velocity as it cuts through the air. That is *not* the noise of a falling Palestinian rocket.
If you watch videos being shared of Palestinian rockets being fired, notice how slowly they travel. Almost at a snail's pace. If they fail, they drop at free fall speed, not the near-supersonic speed of the missile that hit the hospital. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the laws of physics.
3. Israel's apologists are trying to further muddy the waters by suggesting that either a Palestinian rocket fell, or was intercepted, and the rocket or fragments of it hit a very large ammo dump in the hospital. Let's just accept the racist premise that hundreds of families were quite happy to seek safety next to a huge stash of explosives in the middle of a relentless Israeli bombing campaign. Let's also accept the fantastical idea that a falling glorified firework or fragment of it could penetrate the hospital's strong walls and set off such an explosion. If all this was true, you would still see a series of secondary explosions as the arms were detonated by the initial explosion. You don't because there is only one explosion – from an enormous missile.
4. It's a desperate psyop, so Israel has now released a recording of two Hamas militants conveniently having a chat after the missile strike, discussing whether they or Islamic Jihad did it. This is the same Israel that did not detect months of planning by Hamas that was needed to organise its breakout 10 days ago. But Israel got lucky this time, it seems, and just happened to be listening in when Huey and Louie decided to self-incriminate.
Remember Israel has a whole unit of 'mistaravim', Israeli Jewish undercover agents trained to pose as Palestinians and secretly operate among Palestinians. Israel produced a highly popular TV series about such people in Gaza called Fauda. You have to be beyond credulous to think that Israel couldn't, and wouldn't, rig up a call like this to fool us, just as it regularly fools Palestinians in Gaza.
Most of the people spreading these lies know they are lies, including the media, and most especially the Middle East and defence correspondents. At least a few, like the BBC's Jeremy Bowen and Jon Donnison, are trying cautiously to suggest it's unlikely a Hamas rocket could cause damage on the scale seen at the Gaza hospital. But it's not unlikely. It's impossible, and they know it. They just don't dare say it.
100%
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMAs the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".
"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 18, 2023, 03:26:46 PMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMAs the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".
"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.
Ah I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄
I find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.
The rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.
I honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 03:46:16 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 18, 2023, 03:26:46 PMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMAs the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".
"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.
Ah I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄
I find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.
The rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.
I honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.
Biden is US president and you dont think he would cover it up?
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 03:46:16 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 18, 2023, 03:26:46 PMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMAs the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".
"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.
Ah I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄
I find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.
The rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.
I honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.
You must be joking
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 03:46:16 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 18, 2023, 03:26:46 PMQuote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 11:40:53 AMAs the Sky News reporter said immediately after the IDF press conference, what the Israelis say is going on in Gaza is usually very different to the reality of what's actually happening. However, in this press conference they were anxious to be open and transparent. They usually only accept questions from selected press, this time everyone who wanted to ask a question seemed to be allowed. They seem very confident they are on the right side of this incident.
Yeah just like General Mike Jackson was "anxious to be open and transparent" when, before the bodies of the Bloody Sunday victims were even cold, he put out the 'open and transparent' claim that they were all "nail bombers" and "pistol firers" and were "carrying rifles".
"Anxious to be open and transparent"? Wise the f**king head.
Ah I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄
I find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.
The rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.
I honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.
Hound - Biden and US intelligence already know the truth. Everyone does. Looking at it from a selfish perspective from Bidens perspective he is looking to keep his sponsors at home happy, he wants to prevent anything that would escalate into a regional issue. He thinks the best way to do this is to toe the line with Israel and leave his morals aside. Thats how the yanks roll.
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 03:46:16 PMAh I forgot this was the exact same as Bloody Sunday!!! 🙄🙄
Did I say it was?? I assumed you were at least intelligent enough to understand the wider point which is that when an oppressive regime commites a war crime/atrocity, the first thing they will do is lie about it.
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 03:46:16 PMI find it odd that people are so quick to rule out that Palestinian rockets can misfire and go to the wrong place. Especially when in the next breath they say they are the same as fireworks and don't kill anyone - bar the odd one or two. A lot of disingenuous comments.
Firstly, I find it odd that you can listen to an Israeli press confrence and be "so quick" to pronounce that they are being "open and transparent" about what really happened.
Secondly, I've never said Palestinian rockets don't misfire. Of course they do. Any rocket can misfire. The point I made is that the organisation the Israelis are trring to pin his on has never once proven that it has the rocket technology to cause anything even remotely close to this level of devestation. If they did, wouldn't they have used it at some point in the last few decades? Or is it just a crazy coincidence that the very first one they fired not only hit their own hospital but hit it a few hours after the Israelis ordered the hospital to be evacuated?
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 03:46:16 PMThe rationale for rockets and their fuel load doing so much damage in this case is because there were hundreds of people sheltering, in presumably awful conditions, in the hospital car park. Shrapnel and fire caused the deaths. The hospital itself had limited damage it seems, other than fire spreading to it and shrapnel doing some damage to the lower floors. No structural damage to the hospital (still standing I believe, very much unlike whole streets that were destroyed by the Israeli missiles) and no crater in the car park.
It's been pointed out elsewhere that the IDF routinely use GBU-32 guided bombs which detonate above the ground before a strike and don't cause impact craters. I'm not saying that this is what happened. I'm saying that to listen to an Israeli Press Conference, knowing Israel's track record, and instantly accept that they were being "open and transparent" is sheer stupidity.
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2023, 03:46:16 PMI honestly don't think Biden would cover it up if US Intelligence told him that it turned out it was the Israelis, but either way I think the truth will emerge in the coming days.
Why wouldn't he? The Israelis have been denying 2.2m people of food, water and fuel for close to a fortnight - a textbook definition of a war crime according to international law, and he's still standing by their side. This is a man who in 1986 said that "if there were not an Israel, we'd have to invent one" in order to protect US interests in the region. Given that the US has permitted/enabled/funded Israeli aparthied for many years, do you really think they'd change tact over another few hundred palestinians getting blown up in a hospital? They've watched Isreal all week while it blew up UN schools sheltering civilians and not said a word ffs.
The point is that the devastation is relatively modest and there weren't actually anything like 500 fatalities, that seems to have been fake news to try and imply a level of devastation that a rocket could not produce.
So perhaps dozens of people were killed and probably the airstrikes since last night have killed at least as many.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:19:47 PMThe point is that the devastation is relatively modest and there weren't actually anything like 500 fatalities, that seems to have been fake news to try and imply a level of devastation that a rocket could not produce.
So perhaps dozens of people were killed and probably the airstrikes since last night have killed at least as many.
Is this sarcasm?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2023, 04:54:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:19:47 PMThe point is that the devastation is relatively modest and there weren't actually anything like 500 fatalities, that seems to have been fake news to try and imply a level of devastation that a rocket could not produce.
So perhaps dozens of people were killed and probably the airstrikes since last night have killed at least as many.
Is this sarcasm?
No. This hospital thing does not seem to have been the Israelis, but they are bombing away today so all of this discussion about the rocket hitting the hospital car park is actually a distraction at this stage.
The biggest outliers in the various claims are the levels of damage v the level of casualties.
An Israeli missile would likely have caused more damage.
A Hamas misfire would not have caused that level of casualties.
The Palestinian people are hostages to both a genocidal Israeli regime and a nihilistic Hamas regime while Egypt and Jordan play politics.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:58:28 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2023, 04:54:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:19:47 PMThe point is that the devastation is relatively modest and there weren't actually anything like 500 fatalities, that seems to have been fake news to try and imply a level of devastation that a rocket could not produce.
So perhaps dozens of people were killed and probably the airstrikes since last night have killed at least as many.
Is this sarcasm?
No. This hospital thing does not seem to have been the Israelis, but they are bombing away today so all of this discussion about the rocket hitting the hospital car park is actually a distraction at this stage.
Sweet. Jesus.
I give up.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:58:28 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2023, 04:54:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:19:47 PMThe point is that the devastation is relatively modest and there weren't actually anything like 500 fatalities, that seems to have been fake news to try and imply a level of devastation that a rocket could not produce.
So perhaps dozens of people were killed and probably the airstrikes since last night have killed at least as many.
Is this sarcasm?
No. This hospital thing does not seem to have been the Israelis, but they are bombing away today so all of this discussion about the rocket hitting the hospital car park is actually a distraction at this stage.
Looking back the conflict and what Israel has done historically , why can I ask do you seem to be siding with them as the oppressor, or if not siding, going with their side of events?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
It was sickening to see so many Irish people kissing the bastid's arse last time he was here.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:58:28 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2023, 04:54:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:19:47 PMThe point is that the devastation is relatively modest and there weren't actually anything like 500 fatalities, that seems to have been fake news to try and imply a level of devastation that a rocket could not produce.
So perhaps dozens of people were killed and probably the airstrikes since last night have killed at least as many.
Is this sarcasm?
No. This hospital thing does not seem to have been the Israelis, but they are bombing away today so all of this discussion about the rocket hitting the hospital car park is actually a distraction at this stage.
A distraction? How many people did Brits kill on Bloody Sunday. Only the 13. But of distraction too was it?
How and why Israel's disinformation campaign is enabling its massacre in Gaza
Israel is carrying out a large-scale disinformation campaign to build political support for its attack on Gaza, as well as recover from its comprehensive intelligence and military failures on October 7.
BY ABDALJAWAD OMAR OCTOBER 13, 2023 0
Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
SCREENSHOT FROM A CNN BROADCAST ON OCT 11, 2023. (SCREENSHOT VIA TWITTER/X @CNN)
In the hours immediately following the surprise attack on the southern borders with Gaza by Palestinian fighters, Israel began carrying out a large-scale disinformation campaign that has had a strategic impact on the ongoing conflict in the Gaza Strip.
This disinformation campaign is especially surprising considering the exaggerations of events that transpired on the Gaza border. The central question from an Israeli standpoint: why exaggerate the depiction of the events within the border, when the actual events were already brutal enough? Claims made by Israel, later echoed by U.S. President Biden, about beheaded babies, rape, the burning of Israeli civilians, and other such incidents made global headlines, which continued to spread without any substantiation.
This deliberate attempt at exaggeration and dramatization of events will throw a large question on what actually transpired in the Gaza envelope. Already, Palestinian groups have issued several statements regarding the dehumanization campaign. Saleh Aruri, a member of Hamas's political bureau, issued a statement on Aljazeera that included several important claims about the conduct of warfare in the Gaza Envelope.
Signup for the Daily Headlines newsletter. You'll get new stories delivered directly to your inbox every morning at 8am EST.
Subscribe
Firstly, Aruri refuted any allegations concerning beheaded infants. Secondly, he stressed that Palestinian fighters had been given explicit instructions regarding the handling of any captured Israeli settlements, noting that in several areas, Israeli civilians opted to defend by firing at the fighters. Perhaps more crucially, he asserted that Israel chose not to engage in negotiations with any groups within its borders, leading to substantial collateral damage in numerous hostage situations. The Palestinian military strategy aimed to delay Israel's retaking of the area around the strip. In contrast, Israel was intent on swiftly reclaiming the territory, seemingly without regard for the safety of its own citizens.
Yet the Israeli disinformation campaign had multiple objectives, the gravest being the provision of political leverage for Israel to execute airstrikes and a possible ground invasion without facing repercussions.
However, it's crucial to understand that the core of Israel's distress stems from two pivotal setbacks experienced on Saturday. First, there was a comprehensive failure in its surveillance, detection, and defensive mechanisms. This oversight was intensified by the ineptitude of its intelligence services to anticipate and thwart the offensive initiated by Palestinian fighters in Gaza. Such a shortcoming not only tarnishes its global intelligence reputation but also strains its societal ties.
The second blow was the unforeseen dissolution and downfall of its southern division — a development that caught even the Palestinian groups in Gaza off-guard. Members of Israel's southern division were either captured, perished, or opted for retreat. Only a few fought, and it took Israel more than four days to regain control of the "Gaza Envelope," a wide area surrounding Gaza that was infiltrated by a meager force of 1,200 fighters.
This holds monumental significance. As a state rooted in colonialism, Israel's prestige and survival hinges on the prowess and integrity of its defense systems and armed forces. The swift collapse of its military divisions, coupled with the rapid fragmentation of its southern command, represents a profound psychological blow. This crisis has driven its right-wing administration to solicit international military backing — a move that will inevitably reshape its political landscape and influence the future trajectories of several of its leaders once the conflict ceases.
Yet, at the heart of these unfolding events lies a disconcerting decline in Israel's strategic foresight. Its frenzied reactions not only underscore the psychological trauma experienced on Saturday but also project a macabre display of its capabilities — intending to depict the Israeli military as a streamlined apparatus for killing and destruction. However, the current narratives lack a clear strategic vision, making its vow to annihilate Hamas a contentious stance that poses intricate ramifications for the broader regional dynamics.
Another component is vital for its disinformation campaign, aiming to rekindle unity and determination within its society during times when such sentiments are waning. Concurrently, Israeli society is plagued by internal political discord, marked by profound mistrust dividing various ethnic and political factions. Even more crucially, this unfolds against a backdrop where Israel, devoid of any tangible political solution to a prolonged conflict, and while besieging Gaza, presumed it could operate without facing repercussions. The rift between its populace and the military and political elite demands the crafting of a narrative resonant with both Jewish and Israeli sensitivities.
Moreover, a ground maneuver in the Gaza Strip would necessitate significant sacrifice on the part of Israel's military. Its wager that a ground offensive would end Palestinian resistance could also backfire and lead to an even worse political and strategic condition.
Moreover, the unwavering support from the U.S. and its attempts at deterrence may prove futile in dissuading other factions from joining the conflict. Entities like Hezbollah have predicated their existence on championing the Palestinian cause. Their silence or inaction now would undermine their core principles. Strategically, neither Hezbollah nor Iran can afford to watch one of its paramount bastions in Gaza crumble without intervening. This would expose it to intensified efforts by Israel or its allies in potential future confrontations.
Israel's present combat approach echoes archaic military philosophies, where airpower was perceived as a tool to coerce civilian masses into rebelling against their rulers. Thinkers like Giulio Douhet posited that focused assaults on civilians could instigate political shifts. Israel now is weaponizing madness as a psychological and military response, and the world needs to rein it in.
Quotes on zionism from Rabbi Elmer Berger and others
Berger, 1942:
The "Jewish problem" is not realy Jewish at all, though the Zionist is well on his way to making it so by seeking this thoroughgoing exclusiveness of Jewish life. The destiny of the Jew still lies with the destiny of the liberal world. Because fundamentally, Zionism has no faith with that world, I am a non-Zionist.
Berger, 1943:
I oppose Zionism because I deny that Jews are a nation. We were a nation for perhaps two hundred years in a history of four thousand years. Before that we were a group of warring Semitic tribes whse only tenuous bond of unity was a national deity—a religious unity... Certainly since the Dispersion we have not been a nation. We have belonged to every nation of the world. We have mixed our blood with all peoples. Jewish nationalism is a fabrication woven from the thinnest kind of threads and strengthened only in those eras of human history in which reaction has been dominant and anti-Semites in full cry.
Rabbi Morris Lazaron, 1952:
Let us pray that some generous proposal will be made by the state of Israel to the Arab and Muslim peoples to help solve their refugee problem...
Rabbi Irving Reichert of the American Council for Judaism in a 1936 sermon in San Francisco:
If my reading of Jewish history is correct, Israel took upon itself the yoke of the Law not in Palestine, but in the wilderness at Mount Sinai... There is too dangerous a parallel between the insistence sof some Zionist spokesmen upon nationality and race and blood, and similar pronouncements by Fasicst leaders in European dictatorships. Some types of propaganda may prove too tragically successful for our comfort.. If we succeed in teaching America that Zionism is the only instrument of our political salvation, we may live to regret it...
Norman Thomas, the American socialist leader, in 1952, on the new Israeli Law of Return:
Even more dangerous will be the consequences of this new law in fanning the flames of Arab chauvinism and Muslim fanaticism.
Berger, 1955:
The Old Testament Prophets wrote the most significant pages in the development of Judaism. They first conceived and articulated a religion dependent upon inner, moral strength, rather than upon land, nation or ritual. In Prophetic Judaism, as well as in the noblest conceptions of theAmerican dream, God is conceived as 'indwelling' within man.
Ross's commentary: "It should be noted thought htat while it has gained vogue in recent generations as a position of quasi-agnosticism, the concept of the 'indwelling God' has an ancient pedigree in Judaism, originating at the shekhina of kabbalah."
Berger on visiting Israel and Arab neighbors in 1955:
"I am more than ever convinced of the absolute necessity for Jews outside of Israel to divorce themselves completely from a situation of moral degradation apparent in the Arab refugee problem."
Frank Chodorov of ACJ in the 50s.
Israel is only part Israel, the rest being world-wide Zionism, and it is not certain which part wags which. Until this uncertainty is resolved, peace in the Middle East will be precarious, and American foreign policy will be in a similar state of turmoil.
Hannah Arendt in the early 1960s, writing to Berger. This quote should be hung around her reputation like a cowbell:
I am not really an anti-Zionist, and when Ben-Gurion passes from the scene Zionism will revert to the kind of broad, liberal movement it was as I first knew it in Germany.
Berger, followed by Ross:
"We could afford to lose, as we did, the battle against Jewish nationalism in far off Palestine... But we cannot afford to lose the battle against Jewish nationalism in America." But this had always been the more hopeless battle. One way or another, the great majority of American Jews at the midpoint of the twentieth century were emphatically determined not be be 'Americans of Jewish faith," the identity that had meant so much to those who formed the Council [ACJ]. Zionism would give the most compelling answer to the anxieties of that generation, as it was inevitably becoming more Americanized.
Lessing Rosenwald of the ACJ on opposing Zionists:
We had to oppose them as undemocratic in conception and in operation, as archaic, attuned to medieval times rather than to the aspirations of the 20th century.
Ross comparing Theodor Herzl to Marcus Garvey
Garvey packed Madison Square Garden in 1921 to proclaim himself "Provisional President of Africa" in a stunning echo of Herzl's declaration to have founded the Jewish State at Basel in 1897. Like Herzl, Garvey had a conspicuous taste for pompous dress and manner... The Garveyites, in turn, were no less fanatical than the Zionists against their adversaries, disparaging them in racially charged terms as 'mulattoes' and 'octoroons.'"
And on the goal of Jews in the civil rights movement: "the complete integration into U.S. society of African Americans, a goal that, at least in theory, they had rejected for themselves."
Berger in 1969 on the urgency of discussing the lobby.
If Zionism is not 'ventilated," Mr [Abba] Eban will become again Assistant Secretary of State for the Near East.
Jack Ross on recent history:
If anything, the peace process was only interpreted as a license for American Judaism to become more closely and intensely identified with Zionism than ever before... [The new prevalence of Holocaust awareness was a factor.] Another was the dramatic increase of Israeli influences on the religious practices of American Jews, whether directly from Israelis themselves or through the intensely Zionist-oriented Jewish summer camps, which defined the exposure of whole generations to Judaism....
Ross on Berger's understanding of Jewish history:
The Old Testament reflected little more than a long saga of tribal warfare though the Iron and Bronze Ages ...and that fundamentally the Jewish religion is not the tribal religion of this history but the faith of the prophets who proclaimed the possibility of a more just and righteous way of life.
Quote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 06:54:41 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:58:28 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2023, 04:54:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:19:47 PMThe point is that the devastation is relatively modest and there weren't actually anything like 500 fatalities, that seems to have been fake news to try and imply a level of devastation that a rocket could not produce.
So perhaps dozens of people were killed and probably the airstrikes since last night have killed at least as many.
Is this sarcasm?
No. This hospital thing does not seem to have been the Israelis, but they are bombing away today so all of this discussion about the rocket hitting the hospital car park is actually a distraction at this stage.
A distraction? How many people did Brits kill on Bloody Sunday. Only the 13. But of distraction too was it?
No, not the same thing at all, that was murder. What this shows is that Islamic Jihad's rockets are shite, so it is irresponsible firing them over built up areas, but we already knew that. Islamic Jihad are not going to respond to international pressure.
The only facts that we have are the Israel are known to significantly bend the truth, Palestinian rockets do have the ability to misfire and that we will never have a proper independent review of how this was caused as too many big nations have too much skin in the game to admit that their side was at fault
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 08:22:49 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 18, 2023, 06:54:41 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:58:28 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 18, 2023, 04:54:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 04:19:47 PMThe point is that the devastation is relatively modest and there weren't actually anything like 500 fatalities, that seems to have been fake news to try and imply a level of devastation that a rocket could not produce.
So perhaps dozens of people were killed and probably the airstrikes since last night have killed at least as many.
Is this sarcasm?
No. This hospital thing does not seem to have been the Israelis, but they are bombing away today so all of this discussion about the rocket hitting the hospital car park is actually a distraction at this stage.
A distraction? How many people did Brits kill on Bloody Sunday. Only the 13. But of distraction too was it?
No, not the same thing at all, that was murder. What this shows is that Islamic Jihad's rockets are shite, so it is irresponsible firing them over built up areas, but we already knew that. Islamic Jihad are not going to respond to international pressure.
Israel bombed hosiptals in 2014, bomb hospitals now, said they would bomb hospitals, warned they would bomb this particular hospital, IDF digital spokesperson tweeted they did it, then deleted it.
IDF tweeted that it was Hamas and included video with wrong time stamp, deleted videos amd then blamed rocket fire from hospital, then changed to beside it, then it was PIJ, its been shrapnel, its been rocket, its been a detonation at the launch sites all from Israeli sources.
We have the beach bombimg of 3 kids in gaza in 2014, deny deny deny, it was PIJ, the murder of Shireen Abu akleh, againn deny deny deny.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2023, 08:44:04 PMIsrael bombed hosiptals in 2014, bomb hospitals now, said they would bomb hospitals, warned they would bomb this particular hospital, IDF digital spokesperson tweeted they did it, then deleted it.
IDF tweeted that it was Hamas and included video with wrong time stamp, deleted videos amd then blamed rocket fire from hospital, then changed to beside it, then it was PIJ, its been shrapnel, its been rocket, its been a detonation at the launch sites all from Israeli sources.
We have the beach bombimg of 3 kids in gaza in 2014, deny deny deny, it was PIJ, the murder of Shireen Abu akleh, againn deny deny deny.
I have no doubt that Isreal will kill innocent people, I just don't think they would do it in the numbers suggested the day before Biden came, and the evidence does not support that they did.
Who bombed the hospital in Gaza? Israel's evidence analysed
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1dd52778-6dbf-11ee-b0f3-053d83492f27?shareToken=58bcfbc3db2a48651bf26351833c686d
It wouldn't matter what evidence was produced (and it's looking likely now our experts here who believed the Hamas line after an hour were wrong) about the hospital the fact that there are Irish men on here who align themselves with bloodthirsty maniac terrorists is one of the most bizarre moments I have seen on this board. Some of you are like bots on social media
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 18, 2023, 09:02:37 PMIt wouldn't matter what evidence was produced (and it's looking likely now our experts here who believed the Hamas line after an hour were wrong) about the hospital the fact that there are Irish men on here who align themselves with bloodthirsty maniac terrorists is one of the most bizarre moments I have seen on this board. Some of you are like bots on social media
Who has aligned themselves with Israel?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 08:52:24 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2023, 08:44:04 PMIsrael bombed hosiptals in 2014, bomb hospitals now, said they would bomb hospitals, warned they would bomb this particular hospital, IDF digital spokesperson tweeted they did it, then deleted it.
IDF tweeted that it was Hamas and included video with wrong time stamp, deleted videos amd then blamed rocket fire from hospital, then changed to beside it, then it was PIJ, its been shrapnel, its been rocket, its been a detonation at the launch sites all from Israeli sources.
We have the beach bombimg of 3 kids in gaza in 2014, deny deny deny, it was PIJ, the murder of Shireen Abu akleh, againn deny deny deny.
I have no doubt that Isreal will kill innocent people, I just don't think they would do it in the numbers suggested the day before Biden came, and the evidence does not support that they did.
Could you please outline the evidence you cite here, including its source?
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 18, 2023, 09:11:35 PMQuote from: Kidder81 on October 18, 2023, 09:02:37 PMIt wouldn't matter what evidence was produced (and it's looking likely now our experts here who believed the Hamas line after an hour were wrong) about the hospital the fact that there are Irish men on here who align themselves with bloodthirsty maniac terrorists is one of the most bizarre moments I have seen on this board. Some of you are like bots on social media
Who has aligned themselves with Israel?
its not a Hamas line either, its the palestinian line. Israel is known to deny deny deny and western media is know to parrot parrot parrot. there has been further stikes near another hospital tonight which look and sound similar to yesterday but im no expert.
i still think balance of probabitly its israel, i seen on a reuters article according to israel 450 rockets have misfired or landed on Gaza, none of these have cause as much damage as yesterday and none that land in israel over 20 years have caused that much loss of life or damage.
Report in La Monde detailing the two previous Israeli attacks on the same hospital in the last week and how the IDF contacted the hospital director to warn that these two attacks should be taken as a warning to evacuate:
https://twitter.com/KenRoth/status/1714670679776481393?t=36SvH_qijxOZh9O2SjMd0Q&s=19 (//http://)
(https://afedj.org/content/uploads/2023/10/ahli-rocket-damage-1024x500.jpg)
So when Israel says it definitely didn't and most definitely wouldn't dream of attacking a hospital, just remember that they already attacked the same hospital twice earlier in the week.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 08:52:24 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2023, 08:44:04 PMIsrael bombed hosiptals in 2014, bomb hospitals now, said they would bomb hospitals, warned they would bomb this particular hospital, IDF digital spokesperson tweeted they did it, then deleted it.
IDF tweeted that it was Hamas and included video with wrong time stamp, deleted videos amd then blamed rocket fire from hospital, then changed to beside it, then it was PIJ, its been shrapnel, its been rocket, its been a detonation at the launch sites all from Israeli sources.
We have the beach bombimg of 3 kids in gaza in 2014, deny deny deny, it was PIJ, the murder of Shireen Abu akleh, againn deny deny deny.
I have no doubt that Isreal will kill innocent people, I just don't think they would do it in the numbers suggested the day before Biden came, and the evidence does not support that they did.
They would and they may not have meant to do it (very unlikely) but they did it. You'd have to be brain dead to look at the evidence and think otherwise
A fighter plane payload would have be some size to kill 500 people, see pictures there, what I don't see is a crater that come with a bomb of such size. Can't see how a misfiring rockets would do the same damage either. I wait to more information comes out!
The fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
Quote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
Think I'd go with Occam's Razor on this atrocity - the obvious explanation is usually the correct one. If a military is aerial bombing a small highly populated area, they are the ones responsible for the atrocity. The truth is always the first casualty in warfare. People should know not to believe official lines. Part of winning is lying and the press will be used to maximum effect. Remember: There were no weapons of mass destruction. Hundreds of thousands of civilians lost their life on that lie. Just a statistic to many, and casually later described as a "mistake".
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 10:15:28 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
I don't believe the Israeli government, a government that have lied time and time again to cover up their crimes.
As for the baby murderers remark I think the Israelis are outdoing themselves on that one
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 10:15:28 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
And you believe that actually happened?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 18, 2023, 10:04:19 PMA fighter plane payload would have be some size to kill 500 people, see pictures there, what I don't see is a crater that come with a bomb of such size. Can't see how a misfiring rockets would do the same damage either. I wait to more information comes out!
I suspect such information will show that in fact the number of fatalities was much less than 500.
Quote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:59:30 PMAs for the baby murderers remark I think the Israelis are outdoing themselves on that one
With large numbers of Hamas fighters roaming around, likely coked out of their heads, there may well have a been a baby tortured or several women raped. With military operations that is par for the course. But Isreali propaganda multiplied this several times over.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 18, 2023, 11:18:31 PMQuote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 10:15:28 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
And you believe that actually happened?
Don't know if they cut people's heads off - although Islamic militants do have form in this regard - but they certainly murdered children (not sure about babies, specifically, but sure - why not?) in cold blood. I don't know, but shooting eight-year olds to death in pretty abhorrent. And, yeah, I know so is indiscriminate bombing in Gaza, but one thing follows another, and, y'know - what the hell did anyone expect?
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 18, 2023, 11:18:31 PMQuote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 10:15:28 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
And you believe that actually happened?
I saw a video of an adult getting their head hacked off with something that looked like a cross between an axe and a hoe
Quote from: burdizzo on October 18, 2023, 11:28:58 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 18, 2023, 11:18:31 PMQuote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 10:15:28 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
And you believe that actually happened?
Don't know if they cut people's heads off - although Islamic militants do have form in this regard - but they certainly murdered children (not sure about babies, specifically, but sure - why not?) in cold blood. I don't know, but shooting eight-year olds to death in pretty abhorrent. And, yeah, I know so is indiscriminate bombing in Gaza, but one thing follows another, and, y'know - what the hell did anyone expect?
See this is exactly the argument Hamas would present for the 'first' attack.
Plenty of commentators mentioning the inevitability of a harsh Israeli response to the barbaric attack, but it seems that there's no such inevitability about a Palestinian response to being held in an open air jail for decades?
Go figure
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 11:25:52 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 18, 2023, 10:04:19 PMA fighter plane payload would have be some size to kill 500 people, see pictures there, what I don't see is a crater that come with a bomb of such size. Can't see how a misfiring rockets would do the same damage either. I wait to more information comes out!
I suspect such information will show that in fact the number of fatalities was much less than 500. Quote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:59:30 PMAs for the baby murderers remark I think the Israelis are outdoing themselves on that one
With large numbers of Hamas fighters roaming around, likely coked out of their heads, there may well have a been a baby tortured or several women raped. With military operations that is par for the course. But Isreali propaganda multiplied this several times over.
well i suppose it just easier to make stuff up now.
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 11:33:09 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 18, 2023, 11:18:31 PMQuote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 10:15:28 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
And you believe that actually happened?
I saw a video of an adult getting their head hacked off with something that looked like a cross between an axe and a hoe
Good for you
I saw a video of an Israeli soldier shooting an unarmed man and his son one time
So where does this leave us when trying to figure out who bombed the hospital?
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 11:33:09 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 18, 2023, 11:18:31 PMQuote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 10:15:28 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
And you believe that actually happened?
I saw a video of an adult getting their head hacked off with something that looked like a cross between an axe and a hoe
think that was israelis, i think i saw similar. HRW (i think) also had video evidence of four palestinians kneeling unarmed surrendering that were murdered and guns planted beside them.(not there at time of shooting). There was also been a few hostages saying they were looked after by Hamas and one ( Yasmin Porat) said she saw israeli forces fired tank rounds into the settlements and killed Israelis in the crossfire, unsurprising given the hannibal protocol.
There are some really awful videos and pictures of hundreds of the over 1000 children murdered in Gaza. Hard to imagine 15/16 years having lived entirely in the Gaza prision and been through 4 slaughters by israeli bombs.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 11:25:52 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 18, 2023, 10:04:19 PMA fighter plane payload would have be some size to kill 500 people, see pictures there, what I don't see is a crater that come with a bomb of such size. Can't see how a misfiring rockets would do the same damage either. I wait to more information comes out!
I suspect such information will show that in fact the number of fatalities was much less than 500.
Quote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:59:30 PMAs for the baby murderers remark I think the Israelis are outdoing themselves on that one
With large numbers of Hamas fighters roaming around, likely coked out of their heads, there may well have a been a baby tortured or several women raped. With military operations that is par for the course. But Isreali propaganda multiplied this several times over.
Religion really is a f**king disease
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 18, 2023, 09:11:35 PMQuote from: Kidder81 on October 18, 2023, 09:02:37 PMIt wouldn't matter what evidence was produced (and it's looking likely now our experts here who believed the Hamas line after an hour were wrong) about the hospital the fact that there are Irish men on here who align themselves with bloodthirsty maniac terrorists is one of the most bizarre moments I have seen on this board. Some of you are like bots on social media
Who has aligned themselves with Israel?
Beat me to it, Tonto
Quote from: Snapchap on October 18, 2023, 09:20:17 PMReport in La Monde detailing the two previous Israeli attacks on the same hospital in the last week and how the IDF contacted the hospital director to warn that these two attacks should be taken as a warning to evacuate:
https://twitter.com/KenRoth/status/1714670679776481393?t=36SvH_qijxOZh9O2SjMd0Q&s=19 (//http://)
(https://afedj.org/content/uploads/2023/10/ahli-rocket-damage-1024x500.jpg)
So when Israel says it definitely didn't and most definitely wouldn't dream of attacking a hospital, just remember that they already attacked the sa
me hospital twice earlier in the week.
Israel told 25 hospitals to evacuate
Aimee Shalan https://twitter.com/implausibleblog/status/1714572469867028972
Channel 4 not blindly buying the Israeli story on the hospital:
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1714779839826141381?t=4EhquuN5XtPUmfUatI3djQ&s=19
Quote from: Franko on October 18, 2023, 11:57:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 11:25:52 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 18, 2023, 10:04:19 PMA fighter plane payload would have be some size to kill 500 people, see pictures there, what I don't see is a crater that come with a bomb of such size. Can't see how a misfiring rockets would do the same damage either. I wait to more information comes out!
I suspect such information will show that in fact the number of fatalities was much less than 500.
Quote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:59:30 PMAs for the baby murderers remark I think the Israelis are outdoing themselves on that one
With large numbers of Hamas fighters roaming around, likely coked out of their heads, there may well have a been a baby tortured or several women raped. With military operations that is par for the course. But Isreali propaganda multiplied this several times over.
Religion really is a f**king disease
religion can be a great thing but not when it is misused
Quote from: Snapchap on October 19, 2023, 06:27:26 AMChannel 4 not blindly buying the Israeli story on the hospital:
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1714779839826141381?t=4EhquuN5XtPUmfUatI3djQ&s=19
They made a point that Hamas have the actual warhead, just produce that and see them squirm
I wouldn't trust either side as far as I could throw them. Unless there's an independent investigation we'll never be sure of the truth about the hospital.
How would you get someone independent?!
Quote from: Sportacus on October 19, 2023, 08:17:16 AMI wouldn't trust either side as far as I could throw them. Unless there's an independent investigation we'll never be sure of the truth about the hospital.
Of course it cannot be proven, but we can consider the most likely scenario. It was ether the single most powerful palestinian rocket that has ever been made and which by sheer bad luck, misfired. Or...just maybe... it was the same group (the IDF) which bombed it twice beforehand earlier the same week and which told the hospital director that they wee going to bomb it again and that they'd better evacuate.
Israel: "We're gonna bomb another hospital"
Israel:
*bombs hospital* *bombs hospital a second time*Israel:
*calls hospital director* "we're gonna do it again. better get out while you can."
Israel:
*bombs hospital a third time*Israel: "It wasn't us, it was the Palestinians."
Western media: "I guess it was the Palestinians"
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2023, 07:39:04 AMQuote from: Snapchap on October 19, 2023, 06:27:26 AMChannel 4 not blindly buying the Israeli story on the hospital:
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1714779839826141381?t=4EhquuN5XtPUmfUatI3djQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1714779839826141381?t=4EhquuN5XtPUmfUatI3djQ&s=19)
They made a point that Hamas have the actual warhead, just produce that and see them squirm
I thought they made the point that Hamas claimed to have the actual warhead. But then why not release it immediately? The longer the gap the easier it would be to claim it's a warhead from somewhere else.
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2023, 09:26:19 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2023, 07:39:04 AMQuote from: Snapchap on October 19, 2023, 06:27:26 AMChannel 4 not blindly buying the Israeli story on the hospital:
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1714779839826141381?t=4EhquuN5XtPUmfUatI3djQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1714779839826141381?t=4EhquuN5XtPUmfUatI3djQ&s=19)
They made a point that Hamas have the actual warhead, just produce that and see them squirm
I thought they made the point that Hamas claimed to have the actual warhead. But then why not release it immediately? The longer the gap the easier it would be to claim it's a warhead from somewhere else.
If they produced a warhead 15 minutes after the blast, Israel would still be calling it a warhead from somewhere else. And you'd no doubt still be taking them for their word and proclaiming them as being "open and transparent".
Quote from: Snapchap on October 19, 2023, 09:18:52 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 19, 2023, 08:17:16 AMI wouldn't trust either side as far as I could throw them. Unless there's an independent investigation we'll never be sure of the truth about the hospital.
Of course it cannot be proven, but we can consider the most likely scenario. It was ether the single most powerful palestinian rocket that has ever been made and which by sheer bad luck, misfired. Or...just maybe... it was the same group (the IDF) which bombed it twice beforehand earlier the same week and which told the hospital director that they wee going to bomb it again and that they'd better evacuate.
Israel: "We're gonna bomb another hospital"
Israel: *bombs hospital*
*bombs hospital a second time*
Israel: *calls hospital director* "we're gonna do it again. better get out while you can."
Israel: *bombs hospital a third time*
Israel: "It wasn't us, it was the Palestinians."
Western media: "I guess it was the Palestinians"
The images of the crater would (if that was the crater) suggest that it wasn't that big of a rocket? The fact that there was so many in that courtyard which has compounded things and increased the death toll.. Targeting hospitals and schools earlier is just horrendous
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2023, 09:41:55 AMQuote from: Snapchap on October 19, 2023, 09:18:52 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 19, 2023, 08:17:16 AMI wouldn't trust either side as far as I could throw them. Unless there's an independent investigation we'll never be sure of the truth about the hospital.
Of course it cannot be proven, but we can consider the most likely scenario. It was ether the single most powerful palestinian rocket that has ever been made and which by sheer bad luck, misfired. Or...just maybe... it was the same group (the IDF) which bombed it twice beforehand earlier the same week and which told the hospital director that they wee going to bomb it again and that they'd better evacuate.
Israel: "We're gonna bomb another hospital"
Israel: *bombs hospital*
*bombs hospital a second time*
Israel: *calls hospital director* "we're gonna do it again. better get out while you can."
Israel: *bombs hospital a third time*
Israel: "It wasn't us, it was the Palestinians."
Western media: "I guess it was the Palestinians"
The images of the crater would (if that was the crater) suggest that it wasn't that big of a rocket? The fact that there was so many in that courtyard which has compounded things and increased the death toll.. Targeting hospitals and schools earlier is just horrendous
Or it was one of the numerous types of bombs which are used by the IDF that explode before impact? And shall we ignore the fact the attack on the hospital imminently followed an Israeli warning that they were going to carry out such an attack? And take the fact that they bombed it twice earlier in the week as just a coincidence?
As someone said previously here, it's a case of Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is generally the right one. This Palestinian building was most probably bombed by the same organisation that has dropped over ten thousand bombs on Palestinians buildings in the last 12 days, and which announced it's intention to bomb the hospital just before it was bombed.
It honestly staggers me that anyone who knows anything about our own recent history could look at Israel, a state that
routinely commits war crimes and has routinely been caught trying to cover them up/lying about them, could take their denials about this weeks events at face value. If an IDF spokesperson tells you it's October, the first thing you should do is go and check your calender.
Quote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 10:15:28 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
Are these the beheaded babies that Joe Biden saw and then that he didnt see. The same ones Israel said happened but then couldnt confirm they happened.
I would believe anyone ahead of lying Israels and lying America. Both have lied and lied and lied for decades about a whole manner of things, from 9/11 to Iraq to Gaza. Only the most stupid people could take anything they say at face value.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 19, 2023, 08:17:16 AMI wouldn't trust either side as far as I could throw them. Unless there's an independent investigation we'll never be sure of the truth about the hospital.
Do you believe the experts that CH4 news used that declared the audio submitted by Israel was a forgery? Or does CH4 have some bias towards Hamas in your eyes? Assuming you accept this evidence and that means Israel is capable of a bare faced lie, would it then not be reasonable to question everything else they say too. I means its not like this is the first time is it? Or maybe you believe Israel has be honest on all occassions, such as when they killed the american journalist and claimed it was Palestinian or the time they bombed the kids on the beach and claimed they didnt - in both cases they were found to be lying.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2023, 11:46:51 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 11:25:52 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 18, 2023, 10:04:19 PMA fighter plane payload would have be some size to kill 500 people, see pictures there, what I don't see is a crater that come with a bomb of such size. Can't see how a misfiring rockets would do the same damage either. I wait to more information comes out!
I suspect such information will show that in fact the number of fatalities was much less than 500. Quote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:59:30 PMAs for the baby murderers remark I think the Israelis are outdoing themselves on that one
With large numbers of Hamas fighters roaming around, likely coked out of their heads, there may well have a been a baby tortured or several women raped. With military operations that is par for the course. But Isreali propaganda multiplied this several times over.
well i suppose it just easier to make stuff up now.
likely coked out of their heads. Wow
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 19, 2023, 10:18:16 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2023, 11:46:51 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2023, 11:25:52 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on October 18, 2023, 10:04:19 PMA fighter plane payload would have be some size to kill 500 people, see pictures there, what I don't see is a crater that come with a bomb of such size. Can't see how a misfiring rockets would do the same damage either. I wait to more information comes out!
I suspect such information will show that in fact the number of fatalities was much less than 500. Quote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:59:30 PMAs for the baby murderers remark I think the Israelis are outdoing themselves on that one
With large numbers of Hamas fighters roaming around, likely coked out of their heads, there may well have a been a baby tortured or several women raped. With military operations that is par for the course. But Isreali propaganda multiplied this several times over.
well i suppose it just easier to make stuff up now.
likely coked out of their heads. Wow
Yeh Tonto, did you not know there is a big Coke scene in Gaza. Israel lets the coke in but stops the water and electricity. Then those bastards in Hamas dont share the coke and take it all for themselves and the poor kids of Gaza go without. I got this on Fox news when they were interviewing a guy from news-site www.ihatepalestinianbabies.com
At worst, I could maybe understand someone having some doubts and thinking that they might hold fire making a comment until more information is out there. Misfires can happen and all that. But given that They threatened to bomb said hospital, Had hit it twice earlier in the week, had messed up media accounts, that showed they definitely lied at some point, then tried to present a recording that has been bebunked by C4, Who by far are the most trustworthy news in the UK imo (Maybe not a high bar to be fair) and others. Then I don't know how you would ever think the most likely cause was a misfire. It would take pretty significant evidence by independent experts for me to believe that it was a misfire given the above information. I'm not saying it's not possible, but on the basis of what's out there you would have to be of the opinion that it was IDF. That's before looking at the fact the rocket seemed to be more powerful than anything Hamas has done previously. And the fact that the IDF are bombing the sh!te out of the area.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 10:26:12 AMAt worst, I could maybe understand someone having some doubts and thinking that they might hold fire making a comment until more information is out there. Misfires can happen and all that. But given that They threatened to bomb said hospital, Had hit it twice earlier in the week, had messed up media accounts, that showed they definitely lied at some point, then tried to present a recording that has been bebunked by C4, Who by far are the most trustworthy news in the UK imo (Maybe not a high bar to be fair) and others. Then I don't know how you would ever think the most likely cause was a misfire. It would take pretty significant evidence by independent experts for me to believe that it was a misfire given the above information. I'm not saying it's not possible, but on the basis of what's out there you would have to be of the opinion that it was IDF. That's before looking at the fact the rocket seemed to be more powerful than anything Hamas has done previously. And the fact that the IDF are bombing the sh!te out of the area.
Way too much sense in that post, you are clearly an Anti-Semite
just seen that the wee autistic Israeli girl that was taken hostage along with her Grandmother have been found dead. it's barbaric to kill innocents like this.
Terrible. Was she killed by the Palestinians or rockets from Israel?
Quote from: Snapchap on October 19, 2023, 09:59:43 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2023, 09:41:55 AMQuote from: Snapchap on October 19, 2023, 09:18:52 AMQuote from: Sportacus on October 19, 2023, 08:17:16 AMI wouldn't trust either side as far as I could throw them. Unless there's an independent investigation we'll never be sure of the truth about the hospital.
Of course it cannot be proven, but we can consider the most likely scenario. It was ether the single most powerful palestinian rocket that has ever been made and which by sheer bad luck, misfired. Or...just maybe... it was the same group (the IDF) which bombed it twice beforehand earlier the same week and which told the hospital director that they wee going to bomb it again and that they'd better evacuate.
Israel: "We're gonna bomb another hospital"
Israel: *bombs hospital*
*bombs hospital a second time*
Israel: *calls hospital director* "we're gonna do it again. better get out while you can."
Israel: *bombs hospital a third time*
Israel: "It wasn't us, it was the Palestinians."
Western media: "I guess it was the Palestinians"
The images of the crater would (if that was the crater) suggest that it wasn't that big of a rocket? The fact that there was so many in that courtyard which has compounded things and increased the death toll.. Targeting hospitals and schools earlier is just horrendous
Or it was one of the numerous types of bombs which are used by the IDF that explode before impact? And shall we ignore the fact the attack on the hospital imminently followed an Israeli warning that they were going to carry out such an attack? And take the fact that they bombed it twice earlier in the week as just a coincidence?
As someone said previously here, it's a case of Occam's razor. The simplest explanation is generally the right one. This Palestinian building was most probably bombed by the same organisation that has dropped over ten thousand bombs on Palestinians buildings in the last 12 days, and which announced it's intention to bomb the hospital just before it was bombed.
It honestly staggers me that anyone who knows anything about our own recent history could look at Israel, a state that routinely commits war crimes and has routinely been caught trying to cover them up/lying about them, could take their denials about this weeks events at face value. If an IDF spokesperson tells you it's October, the first thing you should do is go and check your calender.
Not sure on the rest of your post tbf, I'm just discussing the crater and the amount of people in the courtyard, I've no knowledge of rockets or bombs. But believing the Israel's statements would be foolish in the extreme, a blind man on a galloping horse can see though, that there will be disinformation on both sides during a war..
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2023, 10:33:23 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 10:26:12 AMAt worst, I could maybe understand someone having some doubts and thinking that they might hold fire making a comment until more information is out there. Misfires can happen and all that. But given that They threatened to bomb said hospital, Had hit it twice earlier in the week, had messed up media accounts, that showed they definitely lied at some point, then tried to present a recording that has been bebunked by C4, Who by far are the most trustworthy news in the UK imo (Maybe not a high bar to be fair) and others. Then I don't know how you would ever think the most likely cause was a misfire. It would take pretty significant evidence by independent experts for me to believe that it was a misfire given the above information. I'm not saying it's not possible, but on the basis of what's out there you would have to be of the opinion that it was IDF. That's before looking at the fact the rocket seemed to be more powerful than anything Hamas has done previously. And the fact that the IDF are bombing the sh!te out of the area.
Way too much sense in that post, you are clearly an Anti-Semite
Almost missed that one.
Quote from: An Watcher on October 19, 2023, 10:54:34 AMTerrible. Was she killed by the Palestinians or rockets from Israel?
a lot of misinformaiton out there (not that it has changed the terrible outcome), it appears she was not taken hostage but was killed in the Hamas attack on the 7th. Other reports suggest she was found on palestinian terrority, which suggests she was takem hostage but seems less likely.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 10:26:12 AMAt worst, I could maybe understand someone having some doubts and thinking that they might hold fire making a comment until more information is out there. Misfires can happen and all that. But given that They threatened to bomb said hospital, Had hit it twice earlier in the week, had messed up media accounts, that showed they definitely lied at some point, then tried to present a recording that has been bebunked by C4, Who by far are the most trustworthy news in the UK imo (Maybe not a high bar to be fair) and others. Then I don't know how you would ever think the most likely cause was a misfire. It would take pretty significant evidence by independent experts for me to believe that it was a misfire given the above information. I'm not saying it's not possible, but on the basis of what's out there you would have to be of the opinion that it was IDF. That's before looking at the fact the rocket seemed to be more powerful than anything Hamas has done previously. And the fact that the IDF are bombing the sh!te out of the area.
You have to treat the utterances of both sides with a lot of scepticism. Hamas were the first ones to come out saying the Israelis did it when at that stage they couldn't possibly know either way, and again not that you could believe them anyway.
The alleged Hamas recordings were clearly the weakest part of the Israeli evidence. The 'debunking' was by two Arab journalists. I take both the recording and the 'debunking' with equal pinches of salt.
While we know Israel have history of hitting both schools and hospitals, there seems to be no clear evidence to say Israel threatened to blow up this hospital. The head of the hospital said there was no warning. Would he lie? There were 3,000 people at or near the hospital.
The full C4 video is here by the way. The previous one shared above was clipped to take out the bit where they say it can't have been a standard Israel missile given the lack of damage and sceptism about the numbers that Hamas said have died. But it doesn't rule out either a misfiring Palestinian rocket nor a different type of Israeli weapon.
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
Sky said that the minor explosion caught on the Al Jazeera camera above the hospital immediately prior to the main explosion at ground level strongly suggests a misfire, but could have been a Palestinian or Israeli misfire.
Al Jazeera's coverage (Sky 511) is very good. It must be 20 years since I looked at it and there has been a complete sea change. Their presenters are a tad biased, as are their scroll machine writers (not unexpectedly and not unforgivable) but most of their guests are excellent.
I don't know who bombed the hospital and my inclination is the evidence points away from the Israelis, but either way there is far too much being overshadowed by the hospital, Israelis are killing people continuously in most part of Gaza and the West Bank.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Biden has lost all credibility with me, I hope Trump hands him his ass in the next election.
The hospital before https://twitter.com/Bazingaaaa_a/status/1714371598256349206
Dr Abu Sitta https://twitter.com/mohammedakunjee/status/1714592340269023329
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2023, 11:04:09 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 10:26:12 AMAt worst, I could maybe understand someone having some doubts and thinking that they might hold fire making a comment until more information is out there. Misfires can happen and all that. But given that They threatened to bomb said hospital, Had hit it twice earlier in the week, had messed up media accounts, that showed they definitely lied at some point, then tried to present a recording that has been bebunked by C4, Who by far are the most trustworthy news in the UK imo (Maybe not a high bar to be fair) and others. Then I don't know how you would ever think the most likely cause was a misfire. It would take pretty significant evidence by independent experts for me to believe that it was a misfire given the above information. I'm not saying it's not possible, but on the basis of what's out there you would have to be of the opinion that it was IDF. That's before looking at the fact the rocket seemed to be more powerful than anything Hamas has done previously. And the fact that the IDF are bombing the sh!te out of the area.
You have to treat the utterances of both sides with a lot of scepticism. Hamas were the first ones to come out saying the Israelis did it when at that stage they couldn't possibly know either way, and again not that you could believe them anyway.
The alleged Hamas recordings were clearly the weakest part of the Israeli evidence. The 'debunking' was by two Arab journalists. I take both the recording and the 'debunking' with equal pinches of salt.
While we know Israel have history of hitting both schools and hospitals, there seems to be no clear evidence to say Israel threatened to blow up this hospital. The head of the hospital said there was no warning. Would he lie? There were 3,000 people at or near the hospital.
The full C4 video is here by the way. The previous one shared above was clipped to take out the bit where they say it can't have been a standard Israel missile given the lack of damage and sceptism about the numbers that Hamas said have died. But it doesn't rule out either a misfiring Palestinian rocket nor a different type of Israeli weapon.
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
Sky said that the minor explosion caught on the Al Jazeera camera above the hospital immediately prior to the main explosion at ground level strongly suggests a misfire, but could have been a Palestinian or Israeli misfire.
Al Jazeera's coverage (Sky 511) is very good. It must be 20 years since I looked at it and there has been a complete sea change. Their presenters are a tad biased, as are their scroll machine writers (not unexpectedly and not unforgivable) but most of their guests are excellent.
I don't know who bombed the hospital and my inclination is the evidence points away from the Israelis, but either way there is far too much being overshadowed by the hospital, Israelis are killing people continuously in most part of Gaza and the West Bank.
Yeah I watched the full C4 report at the time. Thought it very balanced but for me still pointed the finger much more in IDF's direction.
Here's a good post from Al Jazeera https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion
That also outlines the "muddled" versions of IDF in the aftermath. Not just the deleted tweet but also another post with video evidence before a New York Times journalist pointed out the time stamp was wrong. The video was then removed.
The only thing pointing towards a misfire seems to be the impact crater and that can possibly be explained by an air bomb.
But for me the weight of probability has to point in IDF's favour. And in my opinion they did it and then tried to control the narrative and completely messed that up.
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2023, 11:04:09 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 10:26:12 AMAt worst, I could maybe understand someone having some doubts and thinking that they might hold fire making a comment until more information is out there. Misfires can happen and all that. But given that They threatened to bomb said hospital, Had hit it twice earlier in the week, had messed up media accounts, that showed they definitely lied at some point, then tried to present a recording that has been bebunked by C4, Who by far are the most trustworthy news in the UK imo (Maybe not a high bar to be fair) and others. Then I don't know how you would ever think the most likely cause was a misfire. It would take pretty significant evidence by independent experts for me to believe that it was a misfire given the above information. I'm not saying it's not possible, but on the basis of what's out there you would have to be of the opinion that it was IDF. That's before looking at the fact the rocket seemed to be more powerful than anything Hamas has done previously. And the fact that the IDF are bombing the sh!te out of the area.
You have to treat the utterances of both sides with a lot of scepticism. Hamas were the first ones to come out saying the Israelis did it when at that stage they couldn't possibly know either way, and again not that you could believe them anyway.
The alleged Hamas recordings were clearly the weakest part of the Israeli evidence. The 'debunking' was by two Arab journalists. I take both the recording and the 'debunking' with equal pinches of salt.
While we know Israel have history of hitting both schools and hospitals, there seems to be no clear evidence to say Israel threatened to blow up this hospital. The head of the hospital said there was no warning. Would he lie? There were 3,000 people at or near the hospital.
The full C4 video is here by the way. The previous one shared above was clipped to take out the bit where they say it can't have been a standard Israel missile given the lack of damage and sceptism about the numbers that Hamas said have died. But it doesn't rule out either a misfiring Palestinian rocket nor a different type of Israeli weapon.
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
Sky said that the minor explosion caught on the Al Jazeera camera above the hospital immediately prior to the main explosion at ground level strongly suggests a misfire, but could have been a Palestinian or Israeli misfire.
Al Jazeera's coverage (Sky 511) is very good. It must be 20 years since I looked at it and there has been a complete sea change. Their presenters are a tad biased, as are their scroll machine writers (not unexpectedly and not unforgivable) but most of their guests are excellent.
I don't know who bombed the hospital and my inclination is the evidence points away from the Israelis, but either way there is far too much being overshadowed by the hospital, Israelis are killing people continuously in most part of Gaza and the West Bank.
Still points away from Israel...! You've the heals well dug in. Operation Misinformation isn't misfiring
Benji wearing no suit to met Richie tells u all you need to know.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 11:47:06 AMQuote from: Hound on October 19, 2023, 11:04:09 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 10:26:12 AMAt worst, I could maybe understand someone having some doubts and thinking that they might hold fire making a comment until more information is out there. Misfires can happen and all that. But given that They threatened to bomb said hospital, Had hit it twice earlier in the week, had messed up media accounts, that showed they definitely lied at some point, then tried to present a recording that has been bebunked by C4, Who by far are the most trustworthy news in the UK imo (Maybe not a high bar to be fair) and others. Then I don't know how you would ever think the most likely cause was a misfire. It would take pretty significant evidence by independent experts for me to believe that it was a misfire given the above information. I'm not saying it's not possible, but on the basis of what's out there you would have to be of the opinion that it was IDF. That's before looking at the fact the rocket seemed to be more powerful than anything Hamas has done previously. And the fact that the IDF are bombing the sh!te out of the area.
You have to treat the utterances of both sides with a lot of scepticism. Hamas were the first ones to come out saying the Israelis did it when at that stage they couldn't possibly know either way, and again not that you could believe them anyway.
The alleged Hamas recordings were clearly the weakest part of the Israeli evidence. The 'debunking' was by two Arab journalists. I take both the recording and the 'debunking' with equal pinches of salt.
While we know Israel have history of hitting both schools and hospitals, there seems to be no clear evidence to say Israel threatened to blow up this hospital. The head of the hospital said there was no warning. Would he lie? There were 3,000 people at or near the hospital.
The full C4 video is here by the way. The previous one shared above was clipped to take out the bit where they say it can't have been a standard Israel missile given the lack of damage and sceptism about the numbers that Hamas said have died. But it doesn't rule out either a misfiring Palestinian rocket nor a different type of Israeli weapon.
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
Sky said that the minor explosion caught on the Al Jazeera camera above the hospital immediately prior to the main explosion at ground level strongly suggests a misfire, but could have been a Palestinian or Israeli misfire.
Al Jazeera's coverage (Sky 511) is very good. It must be 20 years since I looked at it and there has been a complete sea change. Their presenters are a tad biased, as are their scroll machine writers (not unexpectedly and not unforgivable) but most of their guests are excellent.
I don't know who bombed the hospital and my inclination is the evidence points away from the Israelis, but either way there is far too much being overshadowed by the hospital, Israelis are killing people continuously in most part of Gaza and the West Bank.
Yeah I watched the full C4 report at the time. Thought it very balanced but for me still pointed the finger much more in IDF's direction.
Here's a good post from Al Jazeera https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion
That also outlines the "muddled" versions of IDF in the aftermath. Not just the deleted tweet but also another post with video evidence before a New York Times journalist pointed out the time stamp was wrong. The video was then removed.
The only thing pointing towards a misfire seems to be the impact crater and that can possibly be explained by an air bomb.
But for me the weight of probability has to point in IDF's favour. And in my opinion they did it and then tried to control the narrative and completely messed that up.
initially I was unsure and thought both arguments were plausible. Since then any evidence I have seen points towards the Israelis being culpable, admittedly I am bias. As Hound - I think- said this is overshadowing the continued bombing of Gaza and the killing of Palestinians by Israel. The confusion and continued discussion certainly suits them
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 11:25:38 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Biden has lost all credibility with me, I hope Trump hands him his ass in the next election.
If you are making this pronouncement based on Biden trying/having to walk the line on Hamas/Gaza/Israel, you don't have a clue.
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 12:36:37 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 11:25:38 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Biden has lost all credibility with me, I hope Trump hands him his ass in the next election.
If you are making this pronouncement based on Biden trying/having to walk the line on Hamas/Gaza/Israel, you don't have a clue.
He's meant to be the leader of the free world and the most powerful man on earth. He shouldn't have to walk the line on anything.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 12:44:47 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 12:36:37 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 11:25:38 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Biden has lost all credibility with me, I hope Trump hands him his ass in the next election.
If you are making this pronouncement based on Biden trying/having to walk the line on Hamas/Gaza/Israel, you don't have a clue.
He's meant to be the leader of the free world and the most powerful man on earth. He shouldn't have to walk the line on anything.
In the real world, he does.
But that's not the point. My point is that if you think the US position would be more palatable, in your perception, under Trump, you're insane.
Even as we speak, GOP presidential candidates are trying to scaremonger about Biden pledging the 100 million for aid to the Palestinians in Gaza. Netanyahu snubbed Biden and Obama at the end of Obama's term because he felt they weren't being supine enough for them. Got to address the House under the GOP instead, which I'm sure greased the wheels for the move of the embassy to Jerusalem once Trump got in. The GOP evangelical base are rabidly pro-Israel, not for any Jew-loving reason, but due to biblical prophecies and for some a healthy dose of Islamophobia.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 12:44:47 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 12:36:37 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 11:25:38 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Biden has lost all credibility with me, I hope Trump hands him his ass in the next election.
If you are making this pronouncement based on Biden trying/having to walk the line on Hamas/Gaza/Israel, you don't have a clue.
He's meant to be the leader of the free world and the most powerful man on earth. He shouldn't have to walk the line on anything.
It is approaching a tipping point, Chinese soft power is tipping the balance away from the US.
The more sway that MAGA/America First have inside the US, turning the US away from that leadership role, the faster that will tilt. The Chinese leadership don't have to worry about elections every 2 years.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 19, 2023, 12:06:02 PMQuote from: Hound on October 19, 2023, 11:04:09 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 10:26:12 AMAt worst, I could maybe understand someone having some doubts and thinking that they might hold fire making a comment until more information is out there. Misfires can happen and all that. But given that They threatened to bomb said hospital, Had hit it twice earlier in the week, had messed up media accounts, that showed they definitely lied at some point, then tried to present a recording that has been bebunked by C4, Who by far are the most trustworthy news in the UK imo (Maybe not a high bar to be fair) and others. Then I don't know how you would ever think the most likely cause was a misfire. It would take pretty significant evidence by independent experts for me to believe that it was a misfire given the above information. I'm not saying it's not possible, but on the basis of what's out there you would have to be of the opinion that it was IDF. That's before looking at the fact the rocket seemed to be more powerful than anything Hamas has done previously. And the fact that the IDF are bombing the sh!te out of the area.
You have to treat the utterances of both sides with a lot of scepticism. Hamas were the first ones to come out saying the Israelis did it when at that stage they couldn't possibly know either way, and again not that you could believe them anyway.
The alleged Hamas recordings were clearly the weakest part of the Israeli evidence. The 'debunking' was by two Arab journalists. I take both the recording and the 'debunking' with equal pinches of salt.
While we know Israel have history of hitting both schools and hospitals, there seems to be no clear evidence to say Israel threatened to blow up this hospital. The head of the hospital said there was no warning. Would he lie? There were 3,000 people at or near the hospital.
The full C4 video is here by the way. The previous one shared above was clipped to take out the bit where they say it can't have been a standard Israel missile given the lack of damage and sceptism about the numbers that Hamas said have died. But it doesn't rule out either a misfiring Palestinian rocket nor a different type of Israeli weapon.
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
Sky said that the minor explosion caught on the Al Jazeera camera above the hospital immediately prior to the main explosion at ground level strongly suggests a misfire, but could have been a Palestinian or Israeli misfire.
Al Jazeera's coverage (Sky 511) is very good. It must be 20 years since I looked at it and there has been a complete sea change. Their presenters are a tad biased, as are their scroll machine writers (not unexpectedly and not unforgivable) but most of their guests are excellent.
I don't know who bombed the hospital and my inclination is the evidence points away from the Israelis, but either way there is far too much being overshadowed by the hospital, Israelis are killing people continuously in most part of Gaza and the West Bank.
Still points away from Israel...! You've the heals well dug in. Operation Misinformation isn't misfiring
Everyone seems to have the heels well dug in.
I think you need to see the crater from the attack, to determine the weapon used.
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 12:54:46 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 12:44:47 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 12:36:37 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 11:25:38 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Biden has lost all credibility with me, I hope Trump hands him his ass in the next election.
If you are making this pronouncement based on Biden trying/having to walk the line on Hamas/Gaza/Israel, you don't have a clue.
He's meant to be the leader of the free world and the most powerful man on earth. He shouldn't have to walk the line on anything.
In the real world, he does.
But that's not the point. My point is that if you think the US position would be more palatable, in your perception, under Trump, you're insane.
Even as we speak, GOP presidential candidates are trying to scaremonger about Biden pledging the 100 million for aid to the Palestinians in Gaza. Netanyahu snubbed Biden and Obama at the end of Obama's term because he felt they weren't being supine enough for them. Got to address the House under the GOP instead, which I'm sure greased the wheels for the move of the embassy to Jerusalem once Trump got in. The GOP evangelical base are rabidly pro-Israel, not for any Jew-loving reason, but due to biblical prophecies and for some a healthy dose of Islamophobia.
He should be able/willing to call out a shower of murdering bastards without being called an anti-Semite or whatever else. Can't stand him or Trump tbh. Or any American politician really
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 01:54:45 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 12:54:46 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 12:44:47 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 12:36:37 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 11:25:38 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Biden has lost all credibility with me, I hope Trump hands him his ass in the next election.
If you are making this pronouncement based on Biden trying/having to walk the line on Hamas/Gaza/Israel, you don't have a clue.
He's meant to be the leader of the free world and the most powerful man on earth. He shouldn't have to walk the line on anything.
In the real world, he does.
But that's not the point. My point is that if you think the US position would be more palatable, in your perception, under Trump, you're insane.
Even as we speak, GOP presidential candidates are trying to scaremonger about Biden pledging the 100 million for aid to the Palestinians in Gaza. Netanyahu snubbed Biden and Obama at the end of Obama's term because he felt they weren't being supine enough for them. Got to address the House under the GOP instead, which I'm sure greased the wheels for the move of the embassy to Jerusalem once Trump got in. The GOP evangelical base are rabidly pro-Israel, not for any Jew-loving reason, but due to biblical prophecies and for some a healthy dose of Islamophobia.
He should be able/willing to call out a shower of murdering bastards without being called an anti-Semite or whatever else. Can't stand him or Trump tbh. Or any American politician really
US politics has never been about honesty, it's about keeping the donors onside. Period.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 12:44:47 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 12:36:37 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 11:25:38 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Biden has lost all credibility with me, I hope Trump hands him his ass in the next election.
If you are making this pronouncement based on Biden trying/having to walk the line on Hamas/Gaza/Israel, you don't have a clue.
He's meant to be the leader of the free world and the most powerful man on earth. He shouldn't have to walk the line on anything.
He's not walking any line he is parroting Israeli bullshit.
US Politics: As South Park once parodied, you can vote for a giant Douche or a Turd Sandwich. But if you don't vote for one of them you should die. All the money invested to convince people to vote for w**ker 1 or w**ker 2 - sick.
Lads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 02:19:35 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 12:44:47 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 12:36:37 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 11:25:38 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on October 18, 2023, 02:03:33 PMLet's not go crawling up Biden's hole if he survives long enough to return to the oul sod.
Biden has lost all credibility with me, I hope Trump hands him his ass in the next election.
If you are making this pronouncement based on Biden trying/having to walk the line on Hamas/Gaza/Israel, you don't have a clue.
He's meant to be the leader of the free world and the most powerful man on earth. He shouldn't have to walk the line on anything.
He's not walking any line he is parroting Israeli bullshit.
Yet if Trump was there, it's probable that he would be diverting funds from Ukraine to give even more to the Israelis so they could go harder and faster in Gaza.
Certainly worth arguing you don't like the Biden response, but thinking that the response would be any more pro-Palestine under Trump is mind boggling.
Any lad think Trump be ever different here than Biden, needs his head see too!
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 11:47:06 AMYeah I watched the full C4 report at the time. Thought it very balanced but for me still pointed the finger much more in IDF's direction.
Here's a good post from Al Jazeera https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion
That also outlines the "muddled" versions of IDF in the aftermath. Not just the deleted tweet but also another post with video evidence before a New York Times journalist pointed out the time stamp was wrong. The video was then removed.
The only thing pointing towards a misfire seems to be the impact crater and that can possibly be explained by an air bomb.
But for me the weight of probability has to point in IDF's favour. And in my opinion they did it and then tried to control the narrative and completely messed that up.
Cheers.
The deleted tweet holds little water for me. They admitted they facked up and explained they trusted a source they shouldn't have trusted. It's something that was easily debunked and they deleted it. That shouldn't impact our view of actual evidence. It's irrelevant other than to highlight we can't trust everything they say, just like we can't trust everything Hamas say.
Alistair Bunkel from Sky News (who is very good) said that Sunak was less committed than Biden in his response to the Israeli explanation. Which he said was interesting. But I didn't see exactly what Sunak said. And we must remember Biden wasn't unequivocal in his support for the Israeli explanation, said it needed to be confirmed.
Sunak was hard to listen in PMQ yesterday. Anytime anyone said anything about the innocent Palestinians he was jumping up saying that Israel have a right to go after Hamas and Hamas are using the people as human shields. So implying the collateral damage of the innocents was not the Israelis fault.
He's off to see the Saudi crown prince now. A right shower
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
Yes, I paraphrase. America is a sick shithole and it always will be.
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2023, 03:59:23 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 11:47:06 AMYeah I watched the full C4 report at the time. Thought it very balanced but for me still pointed the finger much more in IDF's direction.
Here's a good post from Al Jazeera https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion
That also outlines the "muddled" versions of IDF in the aftermath. Not just the deleted tweet but also another post with video evidence before a New York Times journalist pointed out the time stamp was wrong. The video was then removed.
The only thing pointing towards a misfire seems to be the impact crater and that can possibly be explained by an air bomb.
But for me the weight of probability has to point in IDF's favour. And in my opinion they did it and then tried to control the narrative and completely messed that up.
Cheers.
The deleted tweet holds little water for me. They admitted they facked up and explained they trusted a source they shouldn't have trusted. It's something that was easily debunked and they deleted it. That shouldn't impact our view of actual evidence. It's irrelevant other than to highlight we can't trust everything they say, just like we can't trust everything Hamas say.
Alistair Bunkel from Sky News (who is very good) said that Sunak was less committed than Biden in his response to the Israeli explanation. Which he said was interesting. But I didn't see exactly what Sunak said. And we must remember Biden wasn't unequivocal in his support for the Israeli explanation, said it needed to be confirmed.
Sunak was hard to listen in PMQ yesterday. Anytime anyone said anything about the innocent Palestinians he was jumping up saying that Israel have a right to go after Hamas and Hamas are using the people as human shields. So implying the collateral damage of the innocents was not the Israelis fault.
He's off to see the Saudi crown prince now. A right shower
Which deleted tweet? The one where the celebrated hitting the hospital or the one with the fake video?
And Hound, could you tell me what you think about Channel 4 declaring the Audio released by Israel to be "fake". Does that hold any water for you?
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2023, 11:04:09 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 19, 2023, 10:26:12 AMAt worst, I could maybe understand someone having some doubts and thinking that they might hold fire making a comment until more information is out there. Misfires can happen and all that. But given that They threatened to bomb said hospital, Had hit it twice earlier in the week, had messed up media accounts, that showed they definitely lied at some point, then tried to present a recording that has been bebunked by C4, Who by far are the most trustworthy news in the UK imo (Maybe not a high bar to be fair) and others. Then I don't know how you would ever think the most likely cause was a misfire. It would take pretty significant evidence by independent experts for me to believe that it was a misfire given the above information. I'm not saying it's not possible, but on the basis of what's out there you would have to be of the opinion that it was IDF. That's before looking at the fact the rocket seemed to be more powerful than anything Hamas has done previously. And the fact that the IDF are bombing the sh!te out of the area.
You have to treat the utterances of both sides with a lot of scepticism. Hamas were the first ones to come out saying the Israelis did it when at that stage they couldn't possibly know either way, and again not that you could believe them anyway.
The alleged Hamas recordings were clearly the weakest part of the Israeli evidence. The 'debunking' was by two Arab journalists. I take both the recording and the 'debunking' with equal pinches of salt.
While we know Israel have history of hitting both schools and hospitals, there seems to be no clear evidence to say Israel threatened to blow up this hospital. The head of the hospital said there was no warning. Would he lie? There were 3,000 people at or near the hospital.
The full C4 video is here by the way. The previous one shared above was clipped to take out the bit where they say it can't have been a standard Israel missile given the lack of damage and sceptism about the numbers that Hamas said have died. But it doesn't rule out either a misfiring Palestinian rocket nor a different type of Israeli weapon.
https://www.channel4.com/news/who-was-behind-the-gaza-hospital-blast-visual-investigation
Sky said that the minor explosion caught on the Al Jazeera camera above the hospital immediately prior to the main explosion at ground level strongly suggests a misfire, but could have been a Palestinian or Israeli misfire.
Al Jazeera's coverage (Sky 511) is very good. It must be 20 years since I looked at it and there has been a complete sea change. Their presenters are a tad biased, as are their scroll machine writers (not unexpectedly and not unforgivable) but most of their guests are excellent.
I don't know who bombed the hospital and my inclination is the evidence points away from the Israelis, but either way there is far too much being overshadowed by the hospital, Israelis are killing people continuously in most part of Gaza and the West Bank.
Interesting that you refer to Al Jazeera in a positive fashion here.
They've just published a digital investigation on their twitter feed today which found
"no grounds for the Israeli army's claim that the strike on the al-Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza was caused by a failed rocket launch"Of course all this is largely irrelevant now
The Israelis and their parrots across the world have managed to throw enough smoke and created enough confusion that they've managed to swerve this one by convincing enough useful idiots that it wasn't them
Donald Trump has one lasting legacy. You can lie and lie and lie, no matter how ridiculous, how far fetched or how impossible the lie is you can get enough corrupted hacks to repeat it and enough morons to believe it. Maybe Israel were the ones who educated Donald and probably the Nazis were the ones to educate Israel.
Anyone who believes an islamic jihad miss-fire caused this massacre can only be described as either a moron or a liar.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
AIPAC is very similar to Tammany Hall and will meet its Aughrim sooner rather than later, as Tammany did. Everyone hated Tammany. Everyone hates AIPAC.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 19, 2023, 03:46:09 PMAny lad think Trump be ever different here than Biden, needs his head see too!
He'd be more coherent and Trump is completely incoherent at best!!!
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
Do you think Putin is any worse than Netanyahu or Biden??
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
This is very true. And same in UK. Starmer has to toe the line. You don't get elected without having the Jewish vote and the Jewish press on your side. Call it a bullshit Antisemitic trope or whatever but it is the truth.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/23/us-states-use-anti-boycott-laws-punish-responsible-businesses
I was reading about the anti boycott laws in American states. It's wild. If you want to speak out and refuse to do business with Israel? Well you're banned
Quote from: trailer on October 19, 2023, 04:59:36 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
This is very true. And same in UK. Starmer has to toe the line. You don't get elected without having the Jewish vote and the Jewish press on your side. Call it a bullshit Antisemitic trope or whatever but it is the truth.
I don't think it's that simple.
Is The NY Times "Jewish press"?
They're getting criticized for reporting "Palestinian sources" blaming Israel for the hospital bombing. They feature plenty of articles criticizing Israel, especially Netanyahu and the settlement policy.
The Jewish vote? Most of that goes to the Dems, who are less well disposed towards "Israel right or wrong " than the GOP.
Only 95% ?
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2023, 10:03:41 AMQuote from: whitey on October 18, 2023, 10:15:28 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 18, 2023, 10:05:40 PMThe fact there's people on here who believe the lies of the IDF and the Israeli government is staggering.
People actually believe Islamic jihad and Hamas have bypassed Israel's siege and got their hands on hi tec weapons and then only decided to use them last night. Then the first time they use the weapon it mis fires and lands on a hospital.
Which then just happens to be the same hospital Israel bombed days earlier and had warned everyone inside to evacuate in 3 seperate warnings over the previous days.
Really?
And you believe maniacs who cut people heads off and murdered babies less than a two weeks ago
Are these the beheaded babies that Joe Biden saw and then that he didnt see. The same ones Israel said happened but then couldnt confirm they happened.
I would believe anyone ahead of lying Israels and lying America. Both have lied and lied and lied for decades about a whole manner of things, from 9/11 to Iraq to Gaza. Only the most stupid people could take anything they say at face value.
I can't believe that there's people on here who believe everything Israel and America says.
The biggest liars in the world.
And a few sneaky regarders on here for Israel and their campaign of genocide, which has went on for years.
Well today they're just going full on denial that the hospital attack happened at all. Because the building wasn't totally demolished, it's still standing, therefore there's no rubble, no bodies, just a bit of flying glass and minor injuries. Those burned out vehicles in the car park? There's no bodies in them. Didn't happen. Nothing to see here. Move along.
(https://images.english.elpais.com/resizer/7BGsE-w45Owrz25iJlXxSL4470A=/1200x0/filters:focal(238x71:248x81)/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/prisa/EDPDN4AAKFPZ5DXIKK5G7XXTEQ.jpg)
Quote from: trailer on October 19, 2023, 04:59:36 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
This is very true. And same in UK. Starmer has to toe the line. You don't get elected without having the Jewish vote and the Jewish press on your side. Call it a bullshit Antisemitic trope or whatever but it is the truth.
Sure look at the assassination job they did on Corbyn.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2023, 05:49:27 PMOnly 95% ?
Poll of voters from earlier this year
https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx)
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 06:26:12 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2023, 05:49:27 PMOnly 95% ?
Poll of voters from earlier this year
https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx)
Good source.
Republicans admire strength, Democrats favour weakness!
UK Labour was captured by the Zionists in 2020 and Starmer is a whore for Zionism but there are interesting tensions developing now with ordinary Brits horrified by the savagery of the Israeli response.
Ireland was never fertile ground for Zionism. It's really interesting, the difference.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2023, 06:47:41 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 06:26:12 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2023, 05:49:27 PMOnly 95% ?
Poll of voters from earlier this year
https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx)
Good source.
Republicans admire strength, Democrats favour weakness!
Nah, Dems have sympathy for the less fortunate, Republicans contempt.
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2023, 06:50:55 PMUK Labour was captured by the Zionists in 2020 and Starmer is a whore for Zionism but there are interesting tensions developing now with ordinary Brits horrified by the savagery of the Israeli response.
Ireland was never fertile ground for Zionism. It's really interesting, the difference.
Apart from The Hill of Tara which they dug up in early 1900s searching for Noah's Ark.
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 07:27:08 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2023, 06:47:41 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 06:26:12 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2023, 05:49:27 PMOnly 95% ?
Poll of voters from earlier this year
https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx)
Good source.
Republicans admire strength, Democrats favour weakness!
Nah, Dems have sympathy for the less fortunate, Republicans contempt.
Heh. Democrats ARE the less fortunate?
Quote from: marty34 on October 19, 2023, 06:01:10 PMI can't believe that there's people on here who believe everything Israel and America says.
I can't believe that anyone thinks that Hamas are any more reliable. You have to look at the evidence.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2023, 07:46:55 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 19, 2023, 06:01:10 PMI can't believe that there's people on here who believe everything Israel and America says.
I can't believe that anyone thinks that Hamas are any more reliable. You have to look at the evidence.
It's insane. Few on here will be deleting posts here I would think in a few months
Quote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2023, 07:44:30 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 07:27:08 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 19, 2023, 06:47:41 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 06:26:12 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2023, 05:49:27 PMOnly 95% ?
Poll of voters from earlier this year
https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx (https://news.gallup.com/poll/472070/democrats-sympathies-middle-east-shift-palestinians.aspx)
Good source.
Republicans admire strength, Democrats favour weakness!
Nah, Dems have sympathy for the less fortunate, Republicans contempt.
Heh. Democrats ARE the less fortunate?
Some are, some aren't.
But let's not derail this thread.
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 19, 2023, 08:02:35 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2023, 07:46:55 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 19, 2023, 06:01:10 PMI can't believe that there's people on here who believe everything Israel and America says.
I can't believe that anyone thinks that Hamas are any more reliable. You have to look at the evidence.
It's insane. Few on here will be deleting posts here I would think in a few months
Israel already been proven to be lying so if posts are to be deleted it'll be pro Israel ones
Quote from: weareros on October 19, 2023, 07:43:40 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 19, 2023, 06:50:55 PMUK Labour was captured by the Zionists in 2020 and Starmer is a whore for Zionism but there are interesting tensions developing now with ordinary Brits horrified by the savagery of the Israeli response.
Ireland was never fertile ground for Zionism. It's really interesting, the difference.
Apart from The Hill of Tara which they dug up in early 1900s searching for Noah's Ark.
Right enough?
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-us-middle-east-policy-wheels-coming-off-cart
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2023, 07:46:55 PMQuote from: marty34 on October 19, 2023, 06:01:10 PMI can't believe that there's people on here who believe everything Israel and America says.
I can't believe that anyone thinks that Hamas are any more reliable. You have to look at the evidence.
I'll ask for a second time - what evidence are you looking at?
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2023, 11:08:45 PMI'll ask for a second time - what evidence are you looking at?
This was not as big an explosion as first alleged. I first believed that it was not rocket because it was too big, but it seems not to have been quite as big as first stated. Hamas overstated it and I wonder why.
Could they be copying the Israeli tactic of making stuff up, like the "40 beheaded babies" and "mass rape" nonsense?
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 19, 2023, 06:24:28 PMQuote from: trailer on October 19, 2023, 04:59:36 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
This is very true. And same in UK. Starmer has to toe the line. You don't get elected without having the Jewish vote and the Jewish press on your side. Call it a bullshit Antisemitic trope or whatever but it is the truth.
Sure look at the assassination job they did on Corbyn.
It's the whole of the moon. Too high, too far, too soon. At the end of the day it's just a minority leading the majority around by the nose. Zionism never did anything for working class people either in the US or the UK. That is its Achilles Heel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJGGSaGqtw
US Navy Destroyer shoots down three missiles fired by Yemeni forces
The Pentagon said it was uncertain where the missiles were headed but could 'potentially' have been aimed at 'targets in Israel'
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-us-middle-east-policy-wheels-coming-off-cart
Could it also be that the "US-based Middle East system", the foundation of which is blind support for Israel, is broken? The resignation letter of Josh Paul, a senior official at the US State Department, who quit over his administration's stance on the Gaza War makes for interesting reading.
Paul called the Hamas attack the "monstrosity of monstrosities" but continued: "This Administration's response - and much of Congress' as well - is an impulsive reaction built on confirmation bias, political convenience, intellectual bankruptcy, and bureaucratic inertia.
Decades of the same approach have shown that security for peace leads to neither security nor peace, The fact is that blind support for one side is destructive in the long term to the interests of the people on both sides."
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207037984/josh-paul-resign-state-department-military-assistance-israel-gaza
Quote from: markl121 on October 19, 2023, 05:12:45 PMhttps://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/23/us-states-use-anti-boycott-laws-punish-responsible-businesses
I was reading about the anti boycott laws in American states. It's wild. If you want to speak out and refuse to do business with Israel? Well you're banned
The land of the free, except when you speak out about Israeli atrocities as a few journalists are finding out.
Sounds more like North Korea
Josh Paul - often the first brick in the wall is the hardest to remove.
Great post Seafoid.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2023, 09:05:18 AMSounds more like North Korea
It does, doesnt it. I wonder is that what these people - Trump, Biden, Von Leydon have in mind for us all. To be dumb serfs and consume whatever shite we send your way, step out of line and we will sort you out. Its a mad conspiracy theory but when you look at the unbelievable lies and responses to this recent conflict you really have to ask yourself.
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
How's it going for the US at the minute? Putin doing what he wants, North Korea laughing at them, China won't be long out of Taiwan and the Middle East on fire. Whilst America stands with its dick in its hands (limp at that). Meanwhile the UK is running around trying to appear a global power but looking more foolish by the day. Couldn't be worse.
Quote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
Oh and had the US stopped supplying Israel with arms and cover years ago they would have been forced to accept the two state solution.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2023, 12:57:16 AMCould they be copying the Israeli tactic of making stuff up, like the "40 beheaded babies" and "mass rape" nonsense?
Lies are not a new thing, I expect that the Eygptians denied that their army was engulfed by the Red Sea while following the departing Moses and the Israelites in 1446 BC.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 20, 2023, 10:28:03 AMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
How's it going for the US at the minute? Putin doing what he wants, North Korea laughing at them, China won't be long out of Taiwan and the Middle East on fire. Whilst America stands with its dick in its hands (limp at that). Meanwhile the UK is running around trying to appear a global power but looking more foolish by the day. Couldn't be worse.
Good enough for them. Americans would be safer worrying about the hundreds of thousands of homeless and the millions more one pay cheque away from homelessness, as well as the mortgage required for a basic hospital stay. America have no business in the Middle East other than to serve the greed of the super rich
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 20, 2023, 10:29:30 AMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
Oh and had the US stopped supplying Israel with arms and cover years ago they would have been forced to accept the two state solution.
Maybe.
Or... the neighbouring countries might have invaded yet again and this time not get their arses handed to them and who knows what the outcome would have been.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 20, 2023, 10:28:03 AMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
How's it going for the US at the minute? Putin doing what he wants, North Korea laughing at them, China won't be long out of Taiwan and the Middle East on fire. Whilst America stands with its dick in its hands (limp at that). Meanwhile the UK is running around trying to appear a global power but looking more foolish by the day. Couldn't be worse.
You think Putin is enjoying the mess he's gotten himself into right now? You don't think he's hoping like f**k that Trump gets back in so that Trump and his minions in Congress will finally end the aid to Ukraine and he'll be able to finish the job?
Maybe China will annex Taiwan. Would that make you happy? Or are you saying that its the US's fault that they're rattling their sabre on that front?
Madagascar looking like a great option in hindsight
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 10:38:06 AMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 20, 2023, 10:28:03 AMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
How's it going for the US at the minute? Putin doing what he wants, North Korea laughing at them, China won't be long out of Taiwan and the Middle East on fire. Whilst America stands with its dick in its hands (limp at that). Meanwhile the UK is running around trying to appear a global power but looking more foolish by the day. Couldn't be worse.
Good enough for them. Americans would be safer worrying about the hundreds of thousands of homeless and the millions more one pay cheque away from homelessness, as well as the mortgage required for a basic hospital stay. America have no business in the Middle East other than to serve the greed of the super rich
Who is a genuine threat anyway to the USA. They have no enemies within an asses roar of them. So with that in mind, why have they bases all around the world, propped up dictator states and armed rogue apartheid states like Israel. I mean I know the answer but a gold star to anyone who gets it right.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 11:04:55 AMMadagascar looking like a great option in hindsight
Aye, but wouldn't they have treated the native Madagascar folk like they have the Palestinians?
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 11:15:02 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 11:04:55 AMMadagascar looking like a great option in hindsight
Aye, but wouldn't they have treated the native Madagascar folk like they have the Palestinians?
Madagascar a brave bit bigger than Israel/Gaza
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 11:18:24 AMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 11:15:02 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 11:04:55 AMMadagascar looking like a great option in hindsight
Aye, but wouldn't they have treated the native Madagascar folk like they have the Palestinians?
Madagascar a brave bit bigger than Israel/Gaza
Well, there would be more land for them to steal off the Madagacar people then.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 11:08:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 10:38:06 AMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 20, 2023, 10:28:03 AMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
How's it going for the US at the minute? Putin doing what he wants, North Korea laughing at them, China won't be long out of Taiwan and the Middle East on fire. Whilst America stands with its dick in its hands (limp at that). Meanwhile the UK is running around trying to appear a global power but looking more foolish by the day. Couldn't be worse.
Good enough for them. Americans would be safer worrying about the hundreds of thousands of homeless and the millions more one pay cheque away from homelessness, as well as the mortgage required for a basic hospital stay. America have no business in the Middle East other than to serve the greed of the super rich
Who is a genuine threat anyway to the USA. They have no enemies within an asses roar of them. So with that in mind, why have they bases all around the world, propped up dictator states and armed rogue apartheid states like Israel. I mean I know the answer but a gold star to anyone who gets it right.
There are plenty in the US, on both left and right, pushing for reduced defense spending and disengagement, respectively. And if Trump gets back in, withdrawal from NATO will definitely be on the table. Are the Japanese ready and willing to take on sole responsibility for defending themselves? Are Europeans?
Quote from: J70 on October 20, 2023, 10:54:43 AMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 20, 2023, 10:28:03 AMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
How's it going for the US at the minute? Putin doing what he wants, North Korea laughing at them, China won't be long out of Taiwan and the Middle East on fire. Whilst America stands with its dick in its hands (limp at that). Meanwhile the UK is running around trying to appear a global power but looking more foolish by the day. Couldn't be worse.
You think Putin is enjoying the mess he's gotten himself into right now? You don't think he's hoping like f**k that Trump gets back in so that Trump and his minions in Congress will finally end the aid to Ukraine and he'll be able to finish the job?
Maybe China will annex Taiwan. Would that make you happy? Or are you saying that its the US's fault that they're rattling their sabre on that front?
I wouldn't want to see any of this, the mess in Israel and the Middle East in general is a result of Britain's foreign policy decisions as they began to withdraw from the Empire. The US stepped Ito the breach and have managed to make matters worse. They are now in the position that they are totally impotent in the face of China, Iran etc... and a lot of that is of their own making.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2023, 10:31:18 AMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2023, 12:57:16 AMCould they be copying the Israeli tactic of making stuff up, like the "40 beheaded babies" and "mass rape" nonsense?
Lies are not a new thing, I expect that the Eygptians denied that their army was engulfed by the Red Sea while following the departing Moses and the Israelites in 1446 BC.
And they'd be right.
Hard to beat a good yarn
Quote from: J70 on October 20, 2023, 11:33:30 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 11:08:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 10:38:06 AMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 20, 2023, 10:28:03 AMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
How's it going for the US at the minute? Putin doing what he wants, North Korea laughing at them, China won't be long out of Taiwan and the Middle East on fire. Whilst America stands with its dick in its hands (limp at that). Meanwhile the UK is running around trying to appear a global power but looking more foolish by the day. Couldn't be worse.
Good enough for them. Americans would be safer worrying about the hundreds of thousands of homeless and the millions more one pay cheque away from homelessness, as well as the mortgage required for a basic hospital stay. America have no business in the Middle East other than to serve the greed of the super rich
Who is a genuine threat anyway to the USA. They have no enemies within an asses roar of them. So with that in mind, why have they bases all around the world, propped up dictator states and armed rogue apartheid states like Israel. I mean I know the answer but a gold star to anyone who gets it right.
There are plenty in the US, on both left and right, pushing for reduced defense spending and disengagement, respectively. And if Trump gets back in, withdrawal from NATO will definitely be on the table. Are the Japanese ready and willing to take on sole responsibility for defending themselves? Are Europeans?
Who are Europeans defending themselves from. The only "enemy" we have is Russia who the yanks and NATO created by pushing into their face with military bases and missile bases. This big bad enemy bogeyman is all about selling weapons.
Quote from: J70 on October 20, 2023, 11:33:30 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 11:08:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 10:38:06 AMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 20, 2023, 10:28:03 AMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
How's it going for the US at the minute? Putin doing what he wants, North Korea laughing at them, China won't be long out of Taiwan and the Middle East on fire. Whilst America stands with its dick in its hands (limp at that). Meanwhile the UK is running around trying to appear a global power but looking more foolish by the day. Couldn't be worse.
Good enough for them. Americans would be safer worrying about the hundreds of thousands of homeless and the millions more one pay cheque away from homelessness, as well as the mortgage required for a basic hospital stay. America have no business in the Middle East other than to serve the greed of the super rich
Who is a genuine threat anyway to the USA. They have no enemies within an asses roar of them. So with that in mind, why have they bases all around the world, propped up dictator states and armed rogue apartheid states like Israel. I mean I know the answer but a gold star to anyone who gets it right.
There are plenty in the US, on both left and right, pushing for reduced defense spending and disengagement, respectively. And if Trump gets back in, withdrawal from NATO will definitely be on the table. Are the Japanese ready and willing to take on sole responsibility for defending themselves? Are Europeans?
"Defending" I'd rather not be allied with that terrorist state the US thanks very much
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 11:55:39 AMQuote from: J70 on October 20, 2023, 11:33:30 AMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 11:08:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 10:38:06 AMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 20, 2023, 10:28:03 AMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 04:48:55 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on October 19, 2023, 04:15:53 PMQuote from: J70 on October 19, 2023, 02:40:56 PMLads, whine all you like about Biden and your preference for Trump. The default US position is pro-Israel - anyone who wishes to get anywhere near leadership in the country has to toe that line. Within that framework, it is only the Democratic Party which pushes back in any way against the land theft and the treatment of the Palestinians. Ironically, the majority of Jewish Americans are Democrats. It's the hardline Orthodox and Hasidic communities, with whom a lot of you lads would fine common cause on vaccines and other issues, who vote Republican, in no small part due to their views on settlements and so on.
I have no issues with vaccines, Trump is a douche of giant proportions, but you know what he is. Biden pretends to be something different, but when it comes to it unconditional support for Israel, US could've solved that problem years ago. Only reason I'd want to see Trump in is that he'd turn US foreign policy into a shit show.
That would be wonderful for the world, wouldn't it. Putin could really run amok with the US pulling out of NATO and missiles raining down on Iran.
How could the US have solved the Israel-Palestine problem?
How's it going for the US at the minute? Putin doing what he wants, North Korea laughing at them, China won't be long out of Taiwan and the Middle East on fire. Whilst America stands with its dick in its hands (limp at that). Meanwhile the UK is running around trying to appear a global power but looking more foolish by the day. Couldn't be worse.
Good enough for them. Americans would be safer worrying about the hundreds of thousands of homeless and the millions more one pay cheque away from homelessness, as well as the mortgage required for a basic hospital stay. America have no business in the Middle East other than to serve the greed of the super rich
Who is a genuine threat anyway to the USA. They have no enemies within an asses roar of them. So with that in mind, why have they bases all around the world, propped up dictator states and armed rogue apartheid states like Israel. I mean I know the answer but a gold star to anyone who gets it right.
There are plenty in the US, on both left and right, pushing for reduced defense spending and disengagement, respectively. And if Trump gets back in, withdrawal from NATO will definitely be on the table. Are the Japanese ready and willing to take on sole responsibility for defending themselves? Are Europeans?
Who are Europeans defending themselves from. The only "enemy" we have is Russia who the yanks and NATO created by pushing into their face with military bases and missile bases. This big bad enemy bogeyman is all about selling weapons.
Russia has no agency, nor do the likes of Ukraine who were pushing for NATO membership and European integration?
It's all about the yanks and arm sales?
Quote from: J70 on October 20, 2023, 12:44:37 PMRussia has no agency, nor do the likes of Ukraine who were pushing for NATO membership and European integration?
I spoke about lies above. One of the most pernicious lies is that somehow Ukraine's actions are directed by the US, the EU or someone else. Ukraine does not want to ruled by Russia, why the f*ck should it, and it wants to join the EU and NATO to ensure that it is not ruled by Russia.
An analogy is Brexit, if you read the Telegraph, Daily Mail etc you would believe that Varadkar was being directed by the EU to cause problems in the 6 counties. Of course, the reality is that the Irish people do not want a trade border on this island and they told Varadkar to go to the EU and ensure that they did not have one.
If someone is to make an argument then transparent bollix does not help.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2023, 01:37:19 PMQuote from: J70 on October 20, 2023, 12:44:37 PMRussia has no agency, nor do the likes of Ukraine who were pushing for NATO membership and European integration?
I spoke about lies above. One of the most pernicious lies is that somehow Ukraine's actions are directed by the US, the EU or someone else. Ukraine does not want to ruled by Russia, why the f*ck should it, and it wants to join the EU and NATO to ensure that it is not ruled by Russia.
An analogy is Brexit, if you read the Telegraph, Daily Mail etc you would believe that Varadkar was being directed by the EU to cause problems in the 6 counties. Of course, the reality is that the Irish people do not want a trade border on this island and they told Varadkar to go to the EU and ensure that they did not have one.
If someone is to make an argument then transparent bollix does not help.
Ukraine hasn't been ruled by Russia for a long time but something changed in the last few yrs. Go have a look at a map of NATO and US bases around the world and you might get a clue. Have a look at the bases around China too. If you think the USA are the good guys these days you need to get your head checked out.
The 3rd oldest Christian church in the world bombed last night. It was sheltering civilians and reports believe something like 100 dead. These were Christian Palestinians mostly which I imagine in US eyes are worth 3 Muslims each. I suppose its difficult to see churches, they don't really stand out in the skyline do they. Its a measure of the depravity going on that this is just getting a shoulder shrug from the media today. Maybe Hamas were inside getting their confessions taken, hadnt thought of that.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:45:14 PMThe 3rd oldest Christian church in the world bombed last night. It was sheltering civilians and reports believe something like 100 dead. These were Christian Palestinians mostly which I imagine in US eyes are worth 3 Muslims each. I suppose its difficult to see churches, they don't really stand out in the skyline do they. Its a measure of the depravity going on that this is just getting a shoulder shrug from the media today. Maybe Hamas were inside getting their confessions taken, hadnt thought of that.
The media seem to shrug their shoulders at most deaths in conflict, tomorrow or the next day when the IDF go in there will be bloodshed for months. Gaza is at least getting media attention.
55 Civilians, Including 12 Children, 10 Women, and Two Individuals Who Died due to Torture Documented Killed in Syria in September 2023
Killings are Still a Daily Occurrence in Syria, With the Country Still One of the World's Worst in Terms of Bloodshed
Other countries going through similar atrocities, but some are at least getting some spotlight
https://snhr.org/blog/category/report/monthly-reports/victims-death-toll/
I've got to the point in life where you can only look after your own shit, piling the misery of other nations conflicts onto yourself will do you no good
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:42:12 PMUkraine hasn't been ruled by Russia for a long time but something changed in the last few yrs. Go have a look at a map of NATO and US bases around the world and you might get a clue. Have a look at the bases around China too. If you think the USA are the good guys these days you need to get your head checked out.
Of course something changed in the last few years, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014!
Why do you want Ukraine to be ruled by Russia, all your comments suggest this?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2023, 01:37:19 PMQuote from: J70 on October 20, 2023, 12:44:37 PMRussia has no agency, nor do the likes of Ukraine who were pushing for NATO membership and European integration?
I spoke about lies above. One of the most pernicious lies is that somehow Ukraine's actions are directed by the US, the EU or someone else. Ukraine does not want to ruled by Russia, why the f*ck should it, and it wants to join the EU and NATO to ensure that it is not ruled by Russia.
An analogy is Brexit, if you read the Telegraph, Daily Mail etc you would believe that Varadkar was being directed by the EU to cause problems in the 6 counties. Of course, the reality is that the Irish people do not want a trade border on this island and they told Varadkar to go to the EU and ensure that they did not have one.
If someone is to make an argument then transparent bollix does not help.
The real analogy is the Cuban Missiles crisis.
What happened there?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2023, 01:56:55 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:42:12 PMUkraine hasn't been ruled by Russia for a long time but something changed in the last few yrs. Go have a look at a map of NATO and US bases around the world and you might get a clue. Have a look at the bases around China too. If you think the USA are the good guys these days you need to get your head checked out.
Of course something changed in the last few years, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014!
Why do you want Ukraine to be ruled by Russia, all your comments suggest this?
No my comments do not suggest that unless you are thick (which is probably what happened here). As someone said its the Cuban missile crisis scenario in reverse. Keep poking the bear and you'll get a reaction. Keep caging people into Gaza treating them as subhuman beasts and don't be shocked when they act like that and attack you.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 20, 2023, 02:03:45 PMThe real analogy is the Cuban Missiles crisis.
What happened there?
In the Cuban missile crisis the Russians already had a naval base in Cuba, but the US objected to the deployment of nuclear weapons.
In Ukraine, in 2014 they were leasing a naval base to Russia, not the US, and even to the present day there are no NATO forces in Ukraine. It is a lazy comparison at best.
After the breakup of the USSR Ukraine agreed to decommission its nuclear weapons and had a treaty with Russia. What happened there?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2023, 02:47:26 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 20, 2023, 02:03:45 PMThe real analogy is the Cuban Missiles crisis.
What happened there?
In the Cuban missile crisis the Russians already had a naval base in Cuba, but the US objected to the deployment of nuclear weapons.
In Ukraine, in 2014 they were leasing a naval base to Russia, not the US, and even to the present day there are no NATO forces in Ukraine. It is a lazy comparison at best.
After the breakup of the USSR Ukraine agreed to decommission its nuclear weapons and had a treaty with Russia. What happened there?
Eh America decommissioned all it Nuclear weapons and so did its buddy Israel, am I right. Do I get a gold star?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 01:56:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:45:14 PMThe 3rd oldest Christian church in the world bombed last night. It was sheltering civilians and reports believe something like 100 dead. These were Christian Palestinians mostly which I imagine in US eyes are worth 3 Muslims each. I suppose its difficult to see churches, they don't really stand out in the skyline do they. Its a measure of the depravity going on that this is just getting a shoulder shrug from the media today. Maybe Hamas were inside getting their confessions taken, hadnt thought of that.
The media seem to shrug their shoulders at most deaths in conflict, tomorrow or the next day when the IDF go in there will be bloodshed for months. Gaza is at least getting media attention.
55 Civilians, Including 12 Children, 10 Women, and Two Individuals Who Died due to Torture Documented Killed in Syria in September 2023
Killings are Still a Daily Occurrence in Syria, With the Country Still One of the World's Worst in Terms of Bloodshed
Other countries going through similar atrocities, but some are at least getting some spotlight
https://snhr.org/blog/category/report/monthly-reports/victims-death-toll/
I've got to the point in life where you can only look after your own shit, piling the misery of other nations conflicts onto yourself will do you no good
What are you on about, wasn't Syria saved (maybe even defended?) by America and the people freed to live happily ever after.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:42:12 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2023, 01:37:19 PMQuote from: J70 on October 20, 2023, 12:44:37 PMRussia has no agency, nor do the likes of Ukraine who were pushing for NATO membership and European integration?
I spoke about lies above. One of the most pernicious lies is that somehow Ukraine's actions are directed by the US, the EU or someone else. Ukraine does not want to ruled by Russia, why the f*ck should it, and it wants to join the EU and NATO to ensure that it is not ruled by Russia.
An analogy is Brexit, if you read the Telegraph, Daily Mail etc you would believe that Varadkar was being directed by the EU to cause problems in the 6 counties. Of course, the reality is that the Irish people do not want a trade border on this island and they told Varadkar to go to the EU and ensure that they did not have one.
If someone is to make an argument then transparent bollix does not help.
Ukraine hasn't been ruled by Russia for a long time but something changed in the last few yrs. Go have a look at a map of NATO and US bases around the world and you might get a clue. Have a look at the bases around China too. If you think the USA are the good guys these days you need to get your head checked out.
Who is saying the US are the good guys?
You'd swear listening to you lads that they're the only bad guys, and that all the problems of the world begin and end with them!
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:01:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 01:56:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:45:14 PMThe 3rd oldest Christian church in the world bombed last night. It was sheltering civilians and reports believe something like 100 dead. These were Christian Palestinians mostly which I imagine in US eyes are worth 3 Muslims each. I suppose its difficult to see churches, they don't really stand out in the skyline do they. Its a measure of the depravity going on that this is just getting a shoulder shrug from the media today. Maybe Hamas were inside getting their confessions taken, hadnt thought of that.
The media seem to shrug their shoulders at most deaths in conflict, tomorrow or the next day when the IDF go in there will be bloodshed for months. Gaza is at least getting media attention.
55 Civilians, Including 12 Children, 10 Women, and Two Individuals Who Died due to Torture Documented Killed in Syria in September 2023
Killings are Still a Daily Occurrence in Syria, With the Country Still One of the World's Worst in Terms of Bloodshed
Other countries going through similar atrocities, but some are at least getting some spotlight
https://snhr.org/blog/category/report/monthly-reports/victims-death-toll/
I've got to the point in life where you can only look after your own shit, piling the misery of other nations conflicts onto yourself will do you no good
What are you on about, wasn't Syria saved (maybe even defended?) by America and the people freed to live happily ever after.
So you are agreeing that the US is every bit as bad as Putin, Netanyahu etc
If that's the case we are in agreement. Historically we have help the yanks up to be better than that but the more we see the more we know it isn't.
We cant say all the problems of the world begin and end with them but I would say they are more responsible than any other country bar the Brits who started most of it.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:01:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 01:56:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:45:14 PMThe 3rd oldest Christian church in the world bombed last night. It was sheltering civilians and reports believe something like 100 dead. These were Christian Palestinians mostly which I imagine in US eyes are worth 3 Muslims each. I suppose its difficult to see churches, they don't really stand out in the skyline do they. Its a measure of the depravity going on that this is just getting a shoulder shrug from the media today. Maybe Hamas were inside getting their confessions taken, hadnt thought of that.
The media seem to shrug their shoulders at most deaths in conflict, tomorrow or the next day when the IDF go in there will be bloodshed for months. Gaza is at least getting media attention.
55 Civilians, Including 12 Children, 10 Women, and Two Individuals Who Died due to Torture Documented Killed in Syria in September 2023
Killings are Still a Daily Occurrence in Syria, With the Country Still One of the World's Worst in Terms of Bloodshed
Other countries going through similar atrocities, but some are at least getting some spotlight
https://snhr.org/blog/category/report/monthly-reports/victims-death-toll/
I've got to the point in life where you can only look after your own shit, piling the misery of other nations conflicts onto yourself will do you no good
What are you on about, wasn't Syria saved (maybe even defended?) by America and the people freed to live happily ever after.
Aye, sure that's it in a nutshell ::)
Talking about media snubs and you bring in America
You'll be telling me America started WW2 next
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 03:24:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:01:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 01:56:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:45:14 PMThe 3rd oldest Christian church in the world bombed last night. It was sheltering civilians and reports believe something like 100 dead. These were Christian Palestinians mostly which I imagine in US eyes are worth 3 Muslims each. I suppose its difficult to see churches, they don't really stand out in the skyline do they. Its a measure of the depravity going on that this is just getting a shoulder shrug from the media today. Maybe Hamas were inside getting their confessions taken, hadnt thought of that.
The media seem to shrug their shoulders at most deaths in conflict, tomorrow or the next day when the IDF go in there will be bloodshed for months. Gaza is at least getting media attention.
55 Civilians, Including 12 Children, 10 Women, and Two Individuals Who Died due to Torture Documented Killed in Syria in September 2023
Killings are Still a Daily Occurrence in Syria, With the Country Still One of the World's Worst in Terms of Bloodshed
Other countries going through similar atrocities, but some are at least getting some spotlight
https://snhr.org/blog/category/report/monthly-reports/victims-death-toll/
I've got to the point in life where you can only look after your own shit, piling the misery of other nations conflicts onto yourself will do you no good
What are you on about, wasn't Syria saved (maybe even defended?) by America and the people freed to live happily ever after.
Aye, sure that's it in a nutshell ::)
Talking about media snubs and you bring in America
You'll be telling me America started WW2 next
Well not directly but no I wouldn't lay the most blame at the feet of America for WW2 and indeed without them we would be possibly speaking German and there wouldn't be a Jew alive today. However, that version of America is long gone. The one we have now destroyed Syria and Iraq, funds murders in Palestine and defends the murderers.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:13:42 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:01:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 01:56:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:45:14 PMThe 3rd oldest Christian church in the world bombed last night. It was sheltering civilians and reports believe something like 100 dead. These were Christian Palestinians mostly which I imagine in US eyes are worth 3 Muslims each. I suppose its difficult to see churches, they don't really stand out in the skyline do they. Its a measure of the depravity going on that this is just getting a shoulder shrug from the media today. Maybe Hamas were inside getting their confessions taken, hadnt thought of that.
The media seem to shrug their shoulders at most deaths in conflict, tomorrow or the next day when the IDF go in there will be bloodshed for months. Gaza is at least getting media attention.
55 Civilians, Including 12 Children, 10 Women, and Two Individuals Who Died due to Torture Documented Killed in Syria in September 2023
Killings are Still a Daily Occurrence in Syria, With the Country Still One of the World's Worst in Terms of Bloodshed
Other countries going through similar atrocities, but some are at least getting some spotlight
https://snhr.org/blog/category/report/monthly-reports/victims-death-toll/
I've got to the point in life where you can only look after your own shit, piling the misery of other nations conflicts onto yourself will do you no good
What are you on about, wasn't Syria saved (maybe even defended?) by America and the people freed to live happily ever after.
So you are agreeing that the US is every bit as bad as Putin, Netanyahu etc
If that's the case we are in agreement. Historically we have help the yanks up to be better than that but the more we see the more we know it isn't.
We cant say all the problems of the world begin and end with them but I would say they are more responsible than any other country bar the Brits who started most of it.
Main reason was the Arab spring uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt, the Americans only getting involved because ISIS was being allowed to train its fighters there and Russia's entry was to stop western influences.
The place is a cluster f**k and not because of the Americans
The Middle East has always been, through history, a cluster f**k sitting on a timebomb ready to explode and at the minute who knows how this will escalate and spread to major cities around the world.
You probably cheered at 9/11 also, considering they deserved it
Why people are getting more carried away at what's happening in Palestine, when there are more atrocities elsewhere is a strange one but I don't see too many Syria flags or Somalian flegs uppa Falls
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 02:51:46 PMEh America decommissioned all it Nuclear weapons and so did its buddy Israel, am I right. Do I get a gold star?
No, you are just taking the urine instead of presenting an argument.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 03:37:37 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:13:42 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:01:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 01:56:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:45:14 PMThe 3rd oldest Christian church in the world bombed last night. It was sheltering civilians and reports believe something like 100 dead. These were Christian Palestinians mostly which I imagine in US eyes are worth 3 Muslims each. I suppose its difficult to see churches, they don't really stand out in the skyline do they. Its a measure of the depravity going on that this is just getting a shoulder shrug from the media today. Maybe Hamas were inside getting their confessions taken, hadnt thought of that.
The media seem to shrug their shoulders at most deaths in conflict, tomorrow or the next day when the IDF go in there will be bloodshed for months. Gaza is at least getting media attention.
55 Civilians, Including 12 Children, 10 Women, and Two Individuals Who Died due to Torture Documented Killed in Syria in September 2023
Killings are Still a Daily Occurrence in Syria, With the Country Still One of the World's Worst in Terms of Bloodshed
Other countries going through similar atrocities, but some are at least getting some spotlight
https://snhr.org/blog/category/report/monthly-reports/victims-death-toll/
I've got to the point in life where you can only look after your own shit, piling the misery of other nations conflicts onto yourself will do you no good
What are you on about, wasn't Syria saved (maybe even defended?) by America and the people freed to live happily ever after.
So you are agreeing that the US is every bit as bad as Putin, Netanyahu etc
If that's the case we are in agreement. Historically we have help the yanks up to be better than that but the more we see the more we know it isn't.
We cant say all the problems of the world begin and end with them but I would say they are more responsible than any other country bar the Brits who started most of it.
Main reason was the Arab spring uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt, the Americans only getting involved because ISIS was being allowed to train its fighters there and Russia's entry was to stop western influences.
The place is a cluster f**k and not because of the Americans
The Middle East has always been, through history, a cluster f**k sitting on a timebomb ready to explode and at the minute who knows how this will escalate and spread to major cities around the world.
You probably cheered at 9/11 also, considering they deserved it
Why people are getting more carried away at what's happening in Palestine, when there are more atrocities elsewhere is a strange one but I don't see too many Syria flags or Somalian flegs uppa Falls
No I didn't cheer at 9/11 and only a sick p***k would even suggest such a thing.
And by the way, the americans got involved in the Arab Spring risings to over throw the peoples choice and to replace it with a puppet they would control or is that me just being anti American again. Those dumb Arabs have no idea how to use democracy so we will do it for them. Ah the land of free that started with their own genocide.
The thing I keep coming back to time and time again in this is the 'failure' of Israeli intelligence.
We are some how supposed to believe that they can tell that Hamas are hiding in these bunkers and basements in densely populated areas, but yet they had no idea the initial attack was coming.
Quote from: NAG1 on October 20, 2023, 04:00:11 PMThe thing I keep coming back to time and time again in this is the 'failure' of Israeli intelligence.
We are some how supposed to believe that they can tell that Hamas are hiding in these bunkers and basements in densely populated areas, but yet they had no idea the initial attack was coming.
Maybe the Americans hid that information....
Look said before, you only need to get lucky once, if the Israeli government allowed that to happen, that will come out, as 1,400 people lost their lives, over 200 hostages being held in Gaza, with, lets face it, zero chance of survival when the army goes in, if it became public knowledge that they knew this was happening I doubt very much the ordinary Israeli would accept that for 'flattening' Gaza as an end goal.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:52:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 03:37:37 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:13:42 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:01:49 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 01:56:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:45:14 PMThe 3rd oldest Christian church in the world bombed last night. It was sheltering civilians and reports believe something like 100 dead. These were Christian Palestinians mostly which I imagine in US eyes are worth 3 Muslims each. I suppose its difficult to see churches, they don't really stand out in the skyline do they. Its a measure of the depravity going on that this is just getting a shoulder shrug from the media today. Maybe Hamas were inside getting their confessions taken, hadnt thought of that.
The media seem to shrug their shoulders at most deaths in conflict, tomorrow or the next day when the IDF go in there will be bloodshed for months. Gaza is at least getting media attention.
55 Civilians, Including 12 Children, 10 Women, and Two Individuals Who Died due to Torture Documented Killed in Syria in September 2023
Killings are Still a Daily Occurrence in Syria, With the Country Still One of the World's Worst in Terms of Bloodshed
Other countries going through similar atrocities, but some are at least getting some spotlight
https://snhr.org/blog/category/report/monthly-reports/victims-death-toll/
I've got to the point in life where you can only look after your own shit, piling the misery of other nations conflicts onto yourself will do you no good
What are you on about, wasn't Syria saved (maybe even defended?) by America and the people freed to live happily ever after.
So you are agreeing that the US is every bit as bad as Putin, Netanyahu etc
If that's the case we are in agreement. Historically we have help the yanks up to be better than that but the more we see the more we know it isn't.
We cant say all the problems of the world begin and end with them but I would say they are more responsible than any other country bar the Brits who started most of it.
Main reason was the Arab spring uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt, the Americans only getting involved because ISIS was being allowed to train its fighters there and Russia's entry was to stop western influences.
The place is a cluster f**k and not because of the Americans
The Middle East has always been, through history, a cluster f**k sitting on a timebomb ready to explode and at the minute who knows how this will escalate and spread to major cities around the world.
You probably cheered at 9/11 also, considering they deserved it
Why people are getting more carried away at what's happening in Palestine, when there are more atrocities elsewhere is a strange one but I don't see too many Syria flags or Somalian flegs uppa Falls
No I didn't cheer at 9/11 and only a sick p***k would even suggest such a thing.
And by the way, the americans got involved in the Arab Spring risings to over throw the peoples choice and to replace it with a puppet they would control or is that me just being anti American again. Those dumb Arabs have no idea how to use democracy so we will do it for them. Ah the land of free that started with their own genocide.
Are we talking about the Republic here?
I'd say there isnt too many countries that didn't start with trying to wipe out themons
As for no USA involvement in other Arab countries, you feel the Saudis are doing a great job?
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:52:52 PMAnd by the way, the americans got involved in the Arab Spring risings to over throw the peoples choice and to replace it with a puppet they would control or is that me just being anti American again. Those dumb Arabs have no idea how to use democracy so we will do it for them. Ah the land of free that started with their own genocide.
This is either a misfired attempt at sarcasm or is spectacularly stupid. The Arab Spring uprisings were sparked by rising food prices. They were against corrupt, unelected regimes and they were a demand for democracy.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2023, 04:37:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:52:52 PMAnd by the way, the americans got involved in the Arab Spring risings to over throw the peoples choice and to replace it with a puppet they would control or is that me just being anti American again. Those dumb Arabs have no idea how to use democracy so we will do it for them. Ah the land of free that started with their own genocide.
This is either a misfired attempt at sarcasm or is spectacularly stupid. The Arab Spring uprisings were sparked by rising food prices. They were against corrupt, unelected regimes and they were a demand for democracy.
They may have been sparked by rising food prices, but they were certainly fanned by American involvement.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 01:42:12 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2023, 01:37:19 PMQuote from: J70 on October 20, 2023, 12:44:37 PMRussia has no agency, nor do the likes of Ukraine who were pushing for NATO membership and European integration?
I spoke about lies above. One of the most pernicious lies is that somehow Ukraine's actions are directed by the US, the EU or someone else. Ukraine does not want to ruled by Russia, why the f*ck should it, and it wants to join the EU and NATO to ensure that it is not ruled by Russia.
An analogy is Brexit, if you read the Telegraph, Daily Mail etc you would believe that Varadkar was being directed by the EU to cause problems in the 6 counties. Of course, the reality is that the Irish people do not want a trade border on this island and they told Varadkar to go to the EU and ensure that they did not have one.
If someone is to make an argument then transparent bollix does not help.
Ukraine hasn't been ruled by Russia for a long time but something changed in the last few yrs. Go have a look at a map of NATO and US bases around the world and you might get a clue. Have a look at the bases around China too. If you think the USA are the good guys these days you need to get your head checked out.
They never were the good guys were they? Maybe up to WW2 but since then they've consistently stuck their noses in and started or made worse every single conflict since.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 20, 2023, 05:05:43 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2023, 04:37:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:52:52 PMAnd by the way, the americans got involved in the Arab Spring risings to over throw the peoples choice and to replace it with a puppet they would control or is that me just being anti American again. Those dumb Arabs have no idea how to use democracy so we will do it for them. Ah the land of free that started with their own genocide.
This is either a misfired attempt at sarcasm or is spectacularly stupid. The Arab Spring uprisings were sparked by rising food prices. They were against corrupt, unelected regimes and they were a demand for democracy.
They may have been sparked by rising food prices, but they were certainly fanned by American involvement.
My own personal lasting memory of it all is David Cameron cheerleading continually for it, it was all rhetoric with no actual substance behind it.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2023, 04:37:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:52:52 PMAnd by the way, the americans got involved in the Arab Spring risings to over throw the peoples choice and to replace it with a puppet they would control or is that me just being anti American again. Those dumb Arabs have no idea how to use democracy so we will do it for them. Ah the land of free that started with their own genocide.
This is either a misfired attempt at sarcasm or is spectacularly stupid. The Arab Spring uprisings were sparked by rising food prices. They were against corrupt, unelected regimes and they were a demand for democracy.
No lad, you just read it wrong. The yanks got involved to throw out the new popular leaders to be replaced with their stooges. The welfare of the people there if zero interest. Did same in numerous countries in South and Latin America
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 20, 2023, 05:30:59 PMThey never were the good guys were they? Maybe up to WW2 but since then they've consistently stuck their noses in and started or made worse every single conflict since.
They are on the right side in Ukraine.
An Israeli politician issued a series of furious threats against Russia during an appearance on a Russian state-controlled TV network Thursday, vowing to retaliate against Moscow's actions during the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. Amir Weitmann, the founder and chairman of the libertarian caucus in Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party, said "Russia will pay the price" after Israel defeats Hamas. "Russia will pay the price?" British RT host Rory Suchet asked incredulously. "Russia is supporting the enemies of Israel," Weitmann raged. "Russia is supporting Nazi people who want to commit genocide on us." He went on to add: "We're not forgetting what you are doing. We're not forgetting. We will come. We will make sure that Ukraine wins. We will make sure that you pay the price for what you have done." In a televised address Thursday night, President Joe Biden linked Hamas and Russia, saying they "both want to annihilate a neighboring democracy."
2 US hostages released I believe.
Ursela von der leyen still warmonging at every opportunity
another hospital getting warnings of being targeted.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 05:58:17 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2023, 04:37:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:52:52 PMAnd by the way, the americans got involved in the Arab Spring risings to over throw the peoples choice and to replace it with a puppet they would control or is that me just being anti American again. Those dumb Arabs have no idea how to use democracy so we will do it for them. Ah the land of free that started with their own genocide.
This is either a misfired attempt at sarcasm or is spectacularly stupid. The Arab Spring uprisings were sparked by rising food prices. They were against corrupt, unelected regimes and they were a demand for democracy.
No lad, you just read it wrong. The yanks got involved to throw out the new popular leaders to be replaced with their stooges. The welfare of the people there if zero interest. Did same in numerous countries in South and Latin America
Correct
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 07:05:32 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 05:58:17 PMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on October 20, 2023, 04:37:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 03:52:52 PMAnd by the way, the americans got involved in the Arab Spring risings to over throw the peoples choice and to replace it with a puppet they would control or is that me just being anti American again. Those dumb Arabs have no idea how to use democracy so we will do it for them. Ah the land of free that started with their own genocide.
This is either a misfired attempt at sarcasm or is spectacularly stupid. The Arab Spring uprisings were sparked by rising food prices. They were against corrupt, unelected regimes and they were a demand for democracy.
No lad, you just read it wrong. The yanks got involved to throw out the new popular leaders to be replaced with their stooges. The welfare of the people there if zero interest. Did same in numerous countries in South and Latin America
Correct
The problem in that area has been going on before Columbus found America, so you're both incorrect
Channel 4 news tonight with a report from independent experts claiming the rocket fired at the hospital came from the direction of Israel and not from the western direction which Israel claimed. The trajectory and sound boom it created came from the opposite direction that Israel said.
They also claim the recording of 2 Hamas fighters discussing the attack was a digitally altered copy and couldn't be used as any sort of credible evidence.
Another hospital warned to evacuate tonight as Israel continues its targeting of supposedly safe spaces.
https://x.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414?s=20
https://x.com/alextomo/status/1715425966091063593?s=20
A few links on twitter of the post above
Are Israel firing ground rockets too, though it was just airstrikes?
The Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
Quote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 10:14:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
But all so predictable.
Hamas deliberately killed defenceless Israeli children.
Israel aren't deliberately picking out individual children like Hamas, but they don't care who or how many they kill, and know damn well that scores, if not hundreds, of innocent children will be amongst their victims.
Everybody knew, especially Hamas, that Israel would respond by killing a multiple of innocents that Hamas killed, and everyone knew they'd get away with it. And they're not even near finished. Sickening.
Quote from: NAG1 on October 20, 2023, 04:00:11 PMThe thing I keep coming back to time and time again in this is the 'failure' of Israeli intelligence.
We are some how supposed to believe that they can tell that Hamas are hiding in these bunkers and basements in densely populated areas, but yet they had no idea the initial attack was coming.
It took the IDF seven hours to respond to the Hamas attack, something doesn't smell right about that.
Neytanyahu is now Mr popular in Israel now but prior to the attack was facing a rebellion for his stance on the Israeli judiciary.
Quote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:30:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 10:14:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
But all so predictable.
Hamas deliberately killed defenceless Israeli children.
Israel aren't deliberately picking out individual children like Hamas, but they don't care who or how many they kill, and know damn well that scores, if not hundreds, of innocent children will be amongst their victims.
Everybody knew, especially Hamas, that Israel would respond by killing a multiple of innocents that Hamas killed, and everyone knew they'd get away with it. And they're not even near finished. Sickening.
I'd have issues with that post hound You blamed Hamas for their attack. But then indirectly blamed hamas for Israel's response. Or at least that's how it reads. The Hamas attack was not the start as abhorrent as it was. Both have deliberately killed children, to say less is giving justification that Israel is only acting in defence. They have, just as intentionally as Hamas, killed children.
Quote from: SHEEDY on October 20, 2023, 08:07:03 PMChannel 4 news tonight with a report from independent experts claiming the rocket fired at the hospital came from the direction of Israel and not from the western direction which Israel claimed. The trajectory and sound boom it created came from the opposite direction that Israel said.
They also claim the recording of 2 Hamas fighters discussing the attack was a digitally altered copy and couldn't be used as any sort of credible evidence.
Another hospital warned to evacuate tonight as Israel continues its targeting of supposedly safe spaces.
Their lies falling apart now. I'm sure Hound will be on soon to acknowledge this and maybe he might answer the 2 questions I put to him.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 20, 2023, 10:39:06 PMQuote from: NAG1 on October 20, 2023, 04:00:11 PMThe thing I keep coming back to time and time again in this is the 'failure' of Israeli intelligence.
We are some how supposed to believe that they can tell that Hamas are hiding in these bunkers and basements in densely populated areas, but yet they had no idea the initial attack was coming.
It took the IDF seven hours to respond to the Hamas attack, something doesn't smell right about that.
Neytanyahu is now Mr popular in Israel now but prior to the attack was facing a rebellion for his stance on the Israeli judiciary.
No big deal for Israel to respond that quickly, so I don't buy the conspiracy theory, but no doubt Netanyahu is absolutely delighted with how this is playing out- Hamas have played right into his hands.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 10:44:26 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 20, 2023, 08:07:03 PMChannel 4 news tonight with a report from independent experts claiming the rocket fired at the hospital came from the direction of Israel and not from the western direction which Israel claimed. The trajectory and sound boom it created came from the opposite direction that Israel said.
They also claim the recording of 2 Hamas fighters discussing the attack was a digitally altered copy and couldn't be used as any sort of credible evidence.
Another hospital warned to evacuate tonight as Israel continues its targeting of supposedly safe spaces.
Their lies falling apart now. I'm sure Hound will be on soon to acknowledge this and maybe he might answer the 2 questions I put to him.
I'd already answered those questions in a discussion with another poster.
I don't think Joe Brolly will be getting a visit to the Whitehouse again as he's belatedly being giving it to Joe Biden on twitter. Fair play to him.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2023, 10:43:05 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:30:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 10:14:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
But all so predictable.
Hamas deliberately killed defenceless Israeli children.
Israel aren't deliberately picking out individual children like Hamas, but they don't care who or how many they kill, and know damn well that scores, if not hundreds, of innocent children will be amongst their victims.
Everybody knew, especially Hamas, that Israel would respond by killing a multiple of innocents that Hamas killed, and everyone knew they'd get away with it. And they're not even near finished. Sickening.
I'd have issues with that post hound You blamed Hamas for their attack. But then indirectly blamed hamas for Israel's response. Or at least that's how it reads. The Hamas attack was not the start as abhorrent as it was. Both have deliberately killed children, to say less is giving justification that Israel is only acting in defence. They have, just as intentionally as Hamas, killed children.
I described the Israeli response as sickening. Abhorrent. Unforgivable. But also a completely predictable response to the Hamas massacre on October 7. Whatever Hamas were trying to achieve, they knew one of the results would be the deaths of at least hundreds, and probably thousands of innocent Palestinians.
I said before, the only deaths I do not condemn in this awful situation are when Israel soldiers mowed down armed Hamas killers on October 7. Everything else is unjustified but Hamas knew that would be the response.
Quote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:58:15 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2023, 10:43:05 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:30:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 10:14:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
But all so predictable.
Hamas deliberately killed defenceless Israeli children.
Israel aren't deliberately picking out individual children like Hamas, but they don't care who or how many they kill, and know damn well that scores, if not hundreds, of innocent children will be amongst their victims.
Everybody knew, especially Hamas, that Israel would respond by killing a multiple of innocents that Hamas killed, and everyone knew they'd get away with it. And they're not even near finished. Sickening.
I'd have issues with that post hound You blamed Hamas for their attack. But then indirectly blamed hamas for Israel's response. Or at least that's how it reads. The Hamas attack was not the start as abhorrent as it was. Both have deliberately killed children, to say less is giving justification that Israel is only acting in defence. They have, just as intentionally as Hamas, killed children.
I described the Israeli response as sickening. Abhorrent. Unforgivable. But also a completely predictable response to the Hamas massacre on October 7. Whatever Hamas were trying to achieve, they knew one of the results would be the deaths of at least hundreds, and probably thousands of innocent Palestinians.
I said before, the only deaths I do not condemn in this awful situation are when Israel soldiers mowed down armed Hamas killers on October 7. Everything else is unjustified but Hamas knew that would be the response.
Do you accept yet in all likelihood Israel bombed that hospital??
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 10:58:10 PMI don't think Joe Brolly will be getting a visit to the Whitehouse again as he's belatedly being giving it to Joe Biden on twitter. Fair play to him.
Ah but ah but what about his third cousin removed in law?
The hospital has been a good (deliberate) distraction for the idiot supporters, like Itchy, of child killers & rapists Hamas
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 10:58:10 PMI don't think Joe Brolly will be getting a visit to the Whitehouse again as he's belatedly being giving it to Joe Biden on twitter. Fair play to him.
You think Joe Biden manages or sees his Twitter account ?
:-\
Quote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:58:15 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2023, 10:43:05 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:30:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 10:14:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
But all so predictable.
Hamas deliberately killed defenceless Israeli children.
Israel aren't deliberately picking out individual children like Hamas, but they don't care who or how many they kill, and know damn well that scores, if not hundreds, of innocent children will be amongst their victims.
Everybody knew, especially Hamas, that Israel would respond by killing a multiple of innocents that Hamas killed, and everyone knew they'd get away with it. And they're not even near finished. Sickening.
I'd have issues with that post hound You blamed Hamas for their attack. But then indirectly blamed hamas for Israel's response. Or at least that's how it reads. The Hamas attack was not the start as abhorrent as it was. Both have deliberately killed children, to say less is giving justification that Israel is only acting in defence. They have, just as intentionally as Hamas, killed children.
I described the Israeli response as sickening. Abhorrent. Unforgivable. But also a completely predictable response to the Hamas massacre on October 7. Whatever Hamas were trying to achieve, they knew one of the results would be the deaths of at least hundreds, and probably thousands of innocent Palestinians.
I said before, the only deaths I do not condemn in this awful situation are when Israel soldiers mowed down armed Hamas killers on October 7. Everything else is unjustified but Hamas knew that would be the response.
Just as Israel knew their actions and the conditions they were forcing on Palestine prior to this was going to drive a reaction from Hamas. An action that Israel have now used to act unchecked against all Palestinians not just Hamas. The narrative can not be allowed that the terrible acts of Oct 7th caused what has happened over the last week. It goes much beyond that.
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 20, 2023, 11:09:16 PMThe hospital has been a good (deliberate) distraction for the idiot supporters, like Itchy, of child killers & rapists Hamas
Here come the far right rascists
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 11:01:54 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:58:15 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2023, 10:43:05 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:30:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 10:14:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
But all so predictable.
Hamas deliberately killed defenceless Israeli children.
Israel aren't deliberately picking out individual children like Hamas, but they don't care who or how many they kill, and know damn well that scores, if not hundreds, of innocent children will be amongst their victims.
Everybody knew, especially Hamas, that Israel would respond by killing a multiple of innocents that Hamas killed, and everyone knew they'd get away with it. And they're not even near finished. Sickening.
I'd have issues with that post hound You blamed Hamas for their attack. But then indirectly blamed hamas for Israel's response. Or at least that's how it reads. The Hamas attack was not the start as abhorrent as it was. Both have deliberately killed children, to say less is giving justification that Israel is only acting in defence. They have, just as intentionally as Hamas, killed children.
I described the Israeli response as sickening. Abhorrent. Unforgivable. But also a completely predictable response to the Hamas massacre on October 7. Whatever Hamas were trying to achieve, they knew one of the results would be the deaths of at least hundreds, and probably thousands of innocent Palestinians.
I said before, the only deaths I do not condemn in this awful situation are when Israel soldiers mowed down armed Hamas killers on October 7. Everything else is unjustified but Hamas knew that would be the response.
Do you accept yet in all likelihood Israel bombed that hospital??
I totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
If I had to lean one way or the other I would lean towards it not being an Israeli strike. More likely a rocket and its fuel load exploding, taking out all the cars in the car park, with fire and shrapnel, killing people sheltering and little structural damage to the hospital and nearby buildings. But totally agree with C4 that this position is not substantiated yet.
I 100% agree with C4 that this was clearly not a normal Israeli missile, because there was insufficient damage. But while Israel have been using missiles for the vast bulk of their attacks, they do have more in their arsenal and they do have weaponry that could potentially have done this. But equally a misfiring Palestinian rocket and its fuel load could have done it. In particular the Al Jazeera video of the flash above the hospital could well be a misfiring rocket.
I give no weight to the voice recordings or any tweets. Neither relevant to the actual evidence. The C4 footage of the head of the hospital saying there was no warning of the attack means I do not believe the comments that some say Israel said they were going to bomb this hospital. I've seen stuff arguing both ways re the trajectory of the weapon, but nobody has anything convincing on this yet imo.
The death toll is another bit of a mystery. C4 casts doubt on the 400-500 mentioned by Hamas, and Hamas are known to exaggerate in similar circumstances. But we do know there were approx 3,000 sheltering in or around the hospital so maybe there were a huge amount in the car park and ground level of the hospital where the fires and flying shrapnel could have killed so many.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2023, 11:13:30 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:58:15 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2023, 10:43:05 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:30:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 10:14:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
But all so predictable.
Hamas deliberately killed defenceless Israeli children.
Israel aren't deliberately picking out individual children like Hamas, but they don't care who or how many they kill, and know damn well that scores, if not hundreds, of innocent children will be amongst their victims.
Everybody knew, especially Hamas, that Israel would respond by killing a multiple of innocents that Hamas killed, and everyone knew they'd get away with it. And they're not even near finished. Sickening.
I'd have issues with that post hound You blamed Hamas for their attack. But then indirectly blamed hamas for Israel's response. Or at least that's how it reads. The Hamas attack was not the start as abhorrent as it was. Both have deliberately killed children, to say less is giving justification that Israel is only acting in defence. They have, just as intentionally as Hamas, killed children.
I described the Israeli response as sickening. Abhorrent. Unforgivable. But also a completely predictable response to the Hamas massacre on October 7. Whatever Hamas were trying to achieve, they knew one of the results would be the deaths of at least hundreds, and probably thousands of innocent Palestinians.
I said before, the only deaths I do not condemn in this awful situation are when Israel soldiers mowed down armed Hamas killers on October 7. Everything else is unjustified but Hamas knew that would be the response.
Just as Israel knew their actions and the conditions they were forcing on Palestine prior to this was going to drive a reaction from Hamas. An action that Israel have now used to act unchecked against all Palestinians not just Hamas. The narrative can not be allowed that the terrible acts of Oct 7th caused what has happened over the last week. It goes much beyond that.
Now, now. Let's not go around claiming that the Middle-East conflict goes back any further than Oct 7th, when an armed Palestinian group attacked peace loving Israel, out of the blue, for absolutely no reason at all that I can think of.
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 11:21:39 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2023, 11:09:01 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 20, 2023, 10:58:10 PMI don't think Joe Brolly will be getting a visit to the Whitehouse again as he's belatedly being giving it to Joe Biden on twitter. Fair play to him.
Ah but ah but what about his third cousin removed in law?
Could you rewrite that in English or any other common language.
Do you want it in Kings English or Irish?
You're the Wally that brought his cousin in law ;D into this and berated him for it..
Quote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
Quote from: johnnycool on October 20, 2023, 10:39:06 PMQuote from: NAG1 on October 20, 2023, 04:00:11 PMThe thing I keep coming back to time and time again in this is the 'failure' of Israeli intelligence.
We are some how supposed to believe that they can tell that Hamas are hiding in these bunkers and basements in densely populated areas, but yet they had no idea the initial attack was coming.
It took the IDF seven hours to respond to the Hamas attack, something doesn't smell right about that.
Neytanyahu is now Mr popular in Israel now but prior to the attack was facing a rebellion for his stance on the Israeli judiciary.
Nothing like a war to rescue a political career, eh?
Sure didn't the Falklands war bring the old Bastid Thatcher back from the brink?
Quote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:58:15 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2023, 10:43:05 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:30:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 10:14:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
But all so predictable.
Hamas deliberately killed defenceless Israeli children.
Israel aren't deliberately picking out individual children like Hamas, but they don't care who or how many they kill, and know damn well that scores, if not hundreds, of innocent children will be amongst their victims.
Everybody knew, especially Hamas, that Israel would respond by killing a multiple of innocents that Hamas killed, and everyone knew they'd get away with it. And they're not even near finished. Sickening.
I'd have issues with that post hound You blamed Hamas for their attack. But then indirectly blamed hamas for Israel's response. Or at least that's how it reads. The Hamas attack was not the start as abhorrent as it was. Both have deliberately killed children, to say less is giving justification that Israel is only acting in defence. They have, just as intentionally as Hamas, killed children.
I described the Israeli response as sickening. Abhorrent. Unforgivable. But also a completely predictable response to the Hamas massacre on October 7. Whatever Hamas were trying to achieve, they knew one of the results would be the deaths of at least hundreds, and probably thousands of innocent Palestinians.
I said before, the only deaths I do not condemn in this awful situation are when Israel soldiers mowed down armed Hamas killers on October 7. Everything else is unjustified but Hamas knew that would be the response.
This conflict only started last week. Didn't know that - news to me.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2023, 11:13:30 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:58:15 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2023, 10:43:05 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 10:30:52 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 20, 2023, 10:14:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 20, 2023, 08:49:37 PMThe Butcher's Apron here with the Butcher's Apron Og
https://twitter.com/RaggedTP/status/1715163990827893147
There are no words strong enough to describe these warmongering hoors.
But all so predictable.
Hamas deliberately killed defenceless Israeli children.
Israel aren't deliberately picking out individual children like Hamas, but they don't care who or how many they kill, and know damn well that scores, if not hundreds, of innocent children will be amongst their victims.
Everybody knew, especially Hamas, that Israel would respond by killing a multiple of innocents that Hamas killed, and everyone knew they'd get away with it. And they're not even near finished. Sickening.
I'd have issues with that post hound You blamed Hamas for their attack. But then indirectly blamed hamas for Israel's response. Or at least that's how it reads. The Hamas attack was not the start as abhorrent as it was. Both have deliberately killed children, to say less is giving justification that Israel is only acting in defence. They have, just as intentionally as Hamas, killed children.
I described the Israeli response as sickening. Abhorrent. Unforgivable. But also a completely predictable response to the Hamas massacre on October 7. Whatever Hamas were trying to achieve, they knew one of the results would be the deaths of at least hundreds, and probably thousands of innocent Palestinians.
I said before, the only deaths I do not condemn in this awful situation are when Israel soldiers mowed down armed Hamas killers on October 7. Everything else is unjustified but Hamas knew that would be the response.
Just as Israel knew their actions and the conditions they were forcing on Palestine prior to this was going to drive a reaction from Hamas. An action that Israel have now used to act unchecked against all Palestinians not just Hamas. The narrative can not be allowed that the terrible acts of Oct 7th caused what has happened over the last week. It goes much beyond that.
This cannot be stated enough
Quote from: johnnycool on October 20, 2023, 10:39:06 PMQuote from: NAG1 on October 20, 2023, 04:00:11 PMThe thing I keep coming back to time and time again in this is the 'failure' of Israeli intelligence.
We are some how supposed to believe that they can tell that Hamas are hiding in these bunkers and basements in densely populated areas, but yet they had no idea the initial attack was coming.
It took the IDF seven hours to respond to the Hamas attack, something doesn't smell right about that.
Neytanyahu is now Mr popular in Israel now but prior to the attack was facing a rebellion for his stance on the Israeli judiciary.
Is he now popular?
If he is, it'll be temporary as sooner or later there will be a reckoning on how he, Mr. Security/f**k the Palestinians/More "Settlements", allowed this to happen under his nose.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 20, 2023, 10:39:06 PMQuote from: NAG1 on October 20, 2023, 04:00:11 PMThe thing I keep coming back to time and time again in this is the 'failure' of Israeli intelligence.
We are some how supposed to believe that they can tell that Hamas are hiding in these bunkers and basements in densely populated areas, but yet they had no idea the initial attack was coming.
It took the IDF seven hours to respond to the Hamas attack, something doesn't smell right about that.
Neytanyahu is now Mr popular in Israel now but prior to the attack was facing a rebellion for his stance on the Israeli judiciary.
Netanyahu told Israelis that there was a technical solution to the Palestinian problem.
Mossad etc are overrated. The Israeli army is a colonial police force. The vast majority of soldiers are under 21 next year . They were very complacent.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-us-middle-east-policy-wheels-coming-off-cart
"If Israel goes into Gaza now, it will blow up the Abraham Accords, further destabilize two of America's most important allies (Egypt and Jordan), and make normalization with Saudi Arabia impossible - huge strategic setbacks. It will also enable Hamas to really fire up the West Bank and get a shepherd's war going there between Jewish settlers and Palestinians. Altogether, it will play directly into Iran's strategy of sucking Israel into imperial overstretch and in that way weakening the Jewish democracy from within."
There is an argument circulating in Washington that the nature, speed, and extent of the Hamas attack changed the US-based Middle East system. James Jeffrey, a former US ambassador in the region, told Middle East Eye: "Hamas' ability to overcome an entire Israeli military defence line puts this war at the level of Yom Kippur (the 1973 Middle East war). No recent war has threatened the US-based Middle East system so much as this, and that is how the administration views it."
Quote from: seafoid on October 21, 2023, 12:34:24 PMNetanyahu told Israelis that there was a technical solution to the Palestinian problem.
Mossad etc are overrated. The Israeli army is a colonial police force. The vast majority of soldiers are under 21 next year . They were very complacent.
Apparently, several hundred troops in the vicinity of Gaza had been recently moved to the West Bank where the settlers were stirring up trouble. No doubt the person who made that decision will be blamed, but of course it is Netanyahu who created the problem.
Quote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
Channel 4 say the audio was doctored and this idiot thinks on balance it's a hamas rocket. An idiot is the only word I can think of. Hound and Miltown haven't one brain between the 2 of them.
Quote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 02:18:03 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
Channel 4 say the audio was doctored and this idiot thinks on balance it's a hamas rocket. An idiot is the only word I can think of. Hound and Miltown haven't one brain between the 2 of them.
Aye! Not one brain.. so post up where I said it wasn't a rocket from Israel.. Wally
Israel Defense minister: Hezbollah has 'decided to join the fighting' and will pay a price for it.
Anyonr on twitter, try follow this account...
https://x.com/Pal_ActionUS?t=vRzux_GyufCaM5mwsf8g0w&s=08
Then leave it and go back to it. Have you been automatically unfollowed? That's what's happening me.
100,000 march in support for Palestine in London. 1000s in Dublin, Paris and many other places. Politicians may be morally bankrupt but the people aren't.
Quote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 02:41:39 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2023, 02:32:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 02:18:03 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
Channel 4 say the audio was doctored and this idiot thinks on balance it's a hamas rocket. An idiot is the only word I can think of. Hound and Miltown haven't one brain between the 2 of them.
Aye! Not one brain.. so post up where I said it wasn't a rocket from Israel.. Wally
I never said you did. I'm just saying you've less than half a brain, same as Hound.
[/quoteQuote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 02:41:39 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2023, 02:32:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 02:18:03 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
Channel 4 say the audio was doctored and this idiot thinks on balance it's a hamas rocket. An idiot is the only word I can think of. Hound and Miltown haven't one brain between the 2 of them.
Aye! Not one brain.. so post up where I said it wasn't a rocket from Israel.. Wally
I never said you did. I'm just saying you've less than half a brain, same as Hound.
So when I agree with you I've half a brain? Hmmm, seriously? Me?
Bit early for drinking, suppose it's 5 o'clock somewhere
The UK Labour party was captured by Zionists to deflect criticism of Israel in 2020
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/29/labour-accused-of-harassment-and-discrimination-in-antisemitism-inquiry
In a joint statement, three Jewish organisations — the Board of Deputies of British Jews, the Jewish Leadership Council and the Community Security Trust — called the report a "damning verdict on what Labour did to Jews under Jeremy Corbyn and his allies".
This is why Starmer is so pro Israel even though UK Labour voters are not
So Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websumit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Quote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Yep, I can only assume all these companies are for blowing up civilians
Quote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Always seemed a decent skin Paddy
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 21, 2023, 06:07:33 PMQuote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Always seemed a decent skin Paddy
The shocking thing is if you read what he said and subsequently apologised for. You either support Israel's murderous rampage or your toast.
Quote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 06:30:19 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 21, 2023, 06:07:33 PMQuote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Always seemed a decent skin Paddy
The shocking thing is if you read what he said and subsequently apologised for. You either support Israel's murderous rampage or your toast.
He only has himself to blame
His initial "apology" wasn't an apology and he actually doubled down in his initial comments
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2023, 08:38:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 06:30:19 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 21, 2023, 06:07:33 PMQuote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Always seemed a decent skin Paddy
The shocking thing is if you read what he said and subsequently apologised for. You either support Israel's murderous rampage or your toast.
He only has himself to blame
His initial "apology" wasn't an apology and he actually doubled down in his initial comments
Ah good old Whitey, you're not a great man to answer a question but could you please post the offensive post Paddy Cosgrave but on twitter that caused him to be "cancelled" and tell us what was offensive
Here is Netanyahu 30 yrs ago explaining when it I suppose ok to make a mistake and bomb a hospital
https://twitter.com/IveaghGael/status/1715497481037807867?t=uo0bAx75L-VKAIFiNKi1dw&s=19
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2023, 08:38:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 06:30:19 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 21, 2023, 06:07:33 PMQuote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Always seemed a decent skin Paddy
The shocking thing is if you read what he said and subsequently apologised for. You either support Israel's murderous rampage or your toast.
He only has himself to blame
His initial "apology" wasn't an apology and he actually doubled down in his initial comments
only himself to blame for calling out war crimes?
Once hostages don't come back / found, or found in bombed out areas, Net's time will come to pass!
Quote from: SHEEDY on October 21, 2023, 10:36:16 PMQuote from: whitey on October 21, 2023, 08:38:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 06:30:19 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 21, 2023, 06:07:33 PMQuote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Always seemed a decent skin Paddy
The shocking thing is if you read what he said and subsequently apologised for. You either support Israel's murderous rampage or your toast.
He only has himself to blame
His initial "apology" wasn't an apology and he actually doubled down in his initial comments
only himself to blame for calling out war crimes?
I don't know
What do you think he "apologized" for?
Quote from: whitey on October 21, 2023, 08:38:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 06:30:19 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 21, 2023, 06:07:33 PMQuote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Always seemed a decent skin Paddy
The shocking thing is if you read what he said and subsequently apologised for. You either support Israel's murderous rampage or your toast.
He only has himself to blame
His initial "apology" wasn't an apology and he actually doubled down in his initial comments
You for real? So to call out a war crime is wrong? wise up FFS, you should try growing a backbone.
Quote from: balladmaker on October 22, 2023, 02:36:58 AMQuote from: whitey on October 21, 2023, 08:38:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 06:30:19 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 21, 2023, 06:07:33 PMQuote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Always seemed a decent skin Paddy
The shocking thing is if you read what he said and subsequently apologised for. You either support Israel's murderous rampage or your toast.
He only has himself to blame
His initial "apology" wasn't an apology and he actually doubled down in his initial comments
You for real? So to call out a war crime is wrong? wise up FFS, you should try growing a backbone.
Well that's not why he was cancelled.....it was a combination of misteps
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/21/1207795093/ceo-of-web-summit-tech-conference-resigns-over-israel-comments
"Last week, he wrote on X that he was shocked at the rhetoric of so many Western leaders and governments in response to Israel's bombardment of Gaza following the Hamas terrorist attack that killed more than 1,300 people.
"War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies, and should be called out for what they are," Cosgrave wrote, referring to Israel's wave of attacks on Gaza after the violence committed by Hamas."
As a boycott movement gained momentum, Cosgrave attempted to walk back his comments with a post on X: "We are devastated to see the terrible killings and the level of innocent civilian casualties in Israel and Gaza. We condemn the attacks by Hamas and extend our deepest sympathies to everyone who has lost loved ones. We hope for peaceful reconciliation."
But he then doubled down on his previous remark, saying: "To repeat: War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies & should be called out for what they are."
As more backed out of the event, Cosgrave issued an apology in hopes of containing the fallout. He wrote that: "I understand that what I said, the timing of what I said, and the way it has been presented has caused profound hurt to many."
And to add insult to injury, the day after the attack he shared a CNN interview with a Hamas apologist who blamed Israel for the attack.
1400 people murdered in cold blood by terrorists.....hundreds more kidnapped including elderly people and babies.
And this is what he decided to share-LOL
WTF did he think was going to happen?
Should have stuck to his guns. He was 100% right
Quote from: whitey on October 22, 2023, 02:51:15 AMQuote from: balladmaker on October 22, 2023, 02:36:58 AMQuote from: whitey on October 21, 2023, 08:38:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 21, 2023, 06:30:19 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 21, 2023, 06:07:33 PMQuote from: balladmaker on October 21, 2023, 05:50:12 PMSo Paddy Cosgrave has resigned as CEO of Websubmit following multiple multi-nationals pulling out of the his event in Lisbon ... just because Paddy had the cheek to criticise western support for Israeli war crimes ...
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1021/1412190-web-summit-cosgrave/
Always seemed a decent skin Paddy
The shocking thing is if you read what he said and subsequently apologised for. You either support Israel's murderous rampage or your toast.
He only has himself to blame
His initial "apology" wasn't an apology and he actually doubled down in his initial comments
You for real? So to call out a war crime is wrong? wise up FFS, you should try growing a backbone.
Well that's not why he was cancelled.....it was a combination of misteps
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/21/1207795093/ceo-of-web-summit-tech-conference-resigns-over-israel-comments
"Last week, he wrote on X that he was shocked at the rhetoric of so many Western leaders and governments in response to Israel's bombardment of Gaza following the Hamas terrorist attack that killed more than 1,300 people.
"War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies, and should be called out for what they are," Cosgrave wrote, referring to Israel's wave of attacks on Gaza after the violence committed by Hamas."
As a boycott movement gained momentum, Cosgrave attempted to walk back his comments with a post on X: "We are devastated to see the terrible killings and the level of innocent civilian casualties in Israel and Gaza. We condemn the attacks by Hamas and extend our deepest sympathies to everyone who has lost loved ones. We hope for peaceful reconciliation."
But he then doubled down on his previous remark, saying: "To repeat: War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies & should be called out for what they are."
As more backed out of the event, Cosgrave issued an apology in hopes of containing the fallout. He wrote that: "I understand that what I said, the timing of what I said, and the way it has been presented has caused profound hurt to many."
And to add insult to injury, the day after the attack he shared a CNN interview with a Hamas apologist who blamed Israel for the attack.
1400 people murdered in cold blood by terrorists.....hundreds more kidnapped including elderly people and babies.
And this is what he decided to share-LOL
WTF did he think was going to happen?
That was a long winded way of not answering the question, whitey.
Try again. What part of the following quote is wrong or offensive?
"War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies & should be called out for what they are."Are you saying war crimes are not war crimes when committed by "allies"? Or as you suggesting that war crimes committed by allies should actually NOT be called out? Which is it?
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 05:10:24 AMShould have stuck to his guns. He was 100% right
Of course he was but he should have been more aware of what he was doing. Cosgrave is Irish but he is plugged into international business circles. When it comes to Israel/Palestine those 2 parts of him do not agree. It's fine to ring Joe Duffy and say allies don't carpet bomb civilians Joe but it's not ok to broadcast it to the titans of US tech. Everyone is afraid of the Jewish lobby so everyone agrees with Israel.
There was a very funny article from the Onion about this.
https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505
Google's board may well think that Israel is f**king nuts but they aren't going to make a song and dance about it because it has nothing to do with their business.
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2023, 08:08:53 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 05:10:24 AMShould have stuck to his guns. He was 100% right
Of course he was but he should have been more aware of what he was doing. Cosgrave is Irish but he is plugged into international business circles. When it comes to Israel/Palestine those 2 parts of him do not agree. It's fine to ring Joe Duffy and say allies don't carpet bomb civilians Joe but it's not ok to broadcast it to the titans of US tech. Everyone is afraid of the Jewish lobby so everyone agrees with Israel.
There was a very funny article from the Onion about this.
https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505
Google's board may well think that Israel is f**king nuts but they aren't going to make a song and dance about it because it has nothing to do with their business.
Thats why people need to have the balls to speak out and stick to their guns
I'm sure whitey will tell us what part of this he doesn't agree with ...
"War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies, and should be called out for what they are,"
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 08:13:36 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 22, 2023, 08:08:53 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 05:10:24 AMShould have stuck to his guns. He was 100% right
Of course he was but he should have been more aware of what he was doing. Cosgrave is Irish but he is plugged into international business circles. When it comes to Israel/Palestine those 2 parts of him do not agree. It's fine to ring Joe Duffy and say allies don't carpet bomb civilians Joe but it's not ok to broadcast it to the titans of US tech. Everyone is afraid of the Jewish lobby so everyone agrees with Israel.
There was a very funny article from the Onion about this.
https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505
Google's board may well think that Israel is f**king nuts but they aren't going to make a song and dance about it because it has nothing to do with their business.
Thats why people need to have the balls to speak out and stick to their guns
You sit behind a computer and spout stuff that will have no affect on your livelihood, so it's easy for you as it has no consequences.
If you worked for a company that has Israel backers and you didn't hid behind Armagh18, would you risk posting stuff?
It's ok in private to express your views, to verbally say it but bring a CEO and doing it on Twitter! Well that's going to have consequences
I suppose he can afford to lose his job and stick to his principles and fair play, but it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do, as he's found out
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2023, 09:32:01 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 08:13:36 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 22, 2023, 08:08:53 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 05:10:24 AMShould have stuck to his guns. He was 100% right
Of course he was but he should have been more aware of what he was doing. Cosgrave is Irish but he is plugged into international business circles. When it comes to Israel/Palestine those 2 parts of him do not agree. It's fine to ring Joe Duffy and say allies don't carpet bomb civilians Joe but it's not ok to broadcast it to the titans of US tech. Everyone is afraid of the Jewish lobby so everyone agrees with Israel.
There was a very funny article from the Onion about this.
https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505
Google's board may well think that Israel is f**king nuts but they aren't going to make a song and dance about it because it has nothing to do with their business.
Thats why people need to have the balls to speak out and stick to their guns
You sit behind a computer and spout stuff that will have no affect on your livelihood, so it's easy for you as it has no consequences.
If you worked for a company that has Israel backers and you didn't hid behind Armagh18, would you risk posting stuff?
It's ok in private to express your views, to verbally say it but bring a CEO and doing it on Twitter! Well that's going to have consequences
I suppose he can afford to lose his job and stick to his principles and fair play, but it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do, as he's found out
I agree. People don't realise how powerful social media amplification is. He could have supported the Palestinians in other ways and kept his job.
He apologised when he had nothing to apologise for. He should have called out these companies for the supporters of war crimes they are and the absolute lunacy of being punished financially for calling out war crimes and breaches of int. Law.
Corybn did the same, he didn't call out the attacks on him for what they were, lies. He took too soft an approach and ultimately left the lies fill the vacuum left by his silence.
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2023, 09:43:40 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2023, 09:32:01 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 08:13:36 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 22, 2023, 08:08:53 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 05:10:24 AMShould have stuck to his guns. He was 100% right
Of course he was but he should have been more aware of what he was doing. Cosgrave is Irish but he is plugged into international business circles. When it comes to Israel/Palestine those 2 parts of him do not agree. It's fine to ring Joe Duffy and say allies don't carpet bomb civilians Joe but it's not ok to broadcast it to the titans of US tech. Everyone is afraid of the Jewish lobby so everyone agrees with Israel.
There was a very funny article from the Onion about this.
https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505
Google's board may well think that Israel is f**king nuts but they aren't going to make a song and dance about it because it has nothing to do with their business.
Thats why people need to have the balls to speak out and stick to their guns
You sit behind a computer and spout stuff that will have no affect on your livelihood, so it's easy for you as it has no consequences.
If you worked for a company that has Israel backers and you didn't hid behind Armagh18, would you risk posting stuff?
It's ok in private to express your views, to verbally say it but bring a CEO and doing it on Twitter! Well that's going to have consequences
I suppose he can afford to lose his job and stick to his principles and fair play, but it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do, as he's found out
I agree. People don't realise how powerful social media amplification is. He could have supported the Palestinians in other ways and kept his job.
Yes. This
IIRC his first condemnation was not of the attack itself, but of the reaction by world leaders to the attack.
An attack where (hundreds of?) children and babies were murdered and some had their throats slit......and this was his first reaction?????
WTF was he thinking!!!!!
Then he retweeted an interview of an Hamas apologist blaming Israel for the attack
And when called out (and rightly so) his response was to accuse Israel of war crimes.
And do so again-in his attempted "apology"
How exactly did he think his clients would react
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 22, 2023, 10:54:38 AMHe apologised when he had nothing to apologise for. He should have called out these companies for the supporters of war crimes they are and the absolute lunacy of being punished financially for calling out war crimes and breaches of int. Law.
Corybn did the same, he didn't call out the attacks on him for what they were, lies. He took too soft an approach and ultimately left the lies fill the vacuum left by his silence.
We are not talking about whether or not the earth is flat. When US companies or politics are involved, there is hardly a more controversial or sensitive issue you could start spouting off on than Israel and the Palestinians. You cannot win, no matter what position you take, but especially if you criticize Israel days after what Hamas did. If you are going to stick your neck out, you better be prepared for the consequences. It's much easier for a corporation just to cut ties than to risk the bad publicity. At the end of the day, they care about the bottom line and shareholders and their own respective jobs.
MR2 made a great point that it's easy to argue and pontificate under our pseudonyms here on the board or in safe private spaces. I wouldn't open my mouth about any of this at my work place in NYC, or even somewhere like Facebook. Part of that is because there are no easy answers and I'm far from an expert, but also because the person I'm talking to or who sees my blathering might be a diehard lover of Israel and why invite the discord?
I've a guy who reports to me who is a major MAGA supporter who worships Trump. He used to try to get conversations going but I told him I wasn't going to engage as I don't want politics causing problems in a work relationship. If you're going to work successfully with someone, there has to be mutual respect; why risk that just to try to "win" an argument you cannot win?
Paddy Cosgrave is the biggest grifter you will ever meet plus an absolute knob jockey too. The irony is he basically had to resign and fcuked Web Summit for one of the least false things he has probably ever said.
He is absolutely despised in the tech industry and I wouldn't be shedding any tears for him. Used web summit resources for his personal vendettas with history of not paying people. Unfortunately the people who work for Web Summit will bear the the brunt of this if this it all collapses but he'll continue to grift with the other tech bros.
The Web Summit was no big loss to Ireland despite what you are told and Government were right to tell him to fcuk off. It's a joke of a conference anyway at this point.
Quote from: Itchy on October 22, 2023, 11:42:39 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2023, 09:32:01 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 08:13:36 AMQuote from: seafoid on October 22, 2023, 08:08:53 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 22, 2023, 05:10:24 AMShould have stuck to his guns. He was 100% right
Of course he was but he should have been more aware of what he was doing. Cosgrave is Irish but he is plugged into international business circles. When it comes to Israel/Palestine those 2 parts of him do not agree. It's fine to ring Joe Duffy and say allies don't carpet bomb civilians Joe but it's not ok to broadcast it to the titans of US tech. Everyone is afraid of the Jewish lobby so everyone agrees with Israel.
There was a very funny article from the Onion about this.
https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505
Google's board may well think that Israel is f**king nuts but they aren't going to make a song and dance about it because it has nothing to do with their business.
Thats why people need to have the balls to speak out and stick to their guns
You sit behind a computer and spout stuff that will have no affect on your livelihood, so it's easy for you as it has no consequences.
If you worked for a company that has Israel backers and you didn't hid behind Armagh18, would you risk posting stuff?
It's ok in private to express your views, to verbally say it but bring a CEO and doing it on Twitter! Well that's going to have consequences
I suppose he can afford to lose his job and stick to his principles and fair play, but it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do, as he's found out
Evil prospers when good people say nothing Miltown. I guess we know how far your principles will go anyway.
I'm still waiting for our resident yank racist Whitey to tell me what was in Cosgraves twitter post that he disagrees with.
Wouldn't take a brain surgeon to work out who I am here.. whereas you're completely anonymous and talk the talk but until I know differently you could be full of shite and buckle when actually pulled in the real world. Until then I'll take your personal insults with a pinch of salt
Quote from: J70 on October 22, 2023, 11:31:03 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 22, 2023, 10:54:38 AMHe apologised when he had nothing to apologise for. He should have called out these companies for the supporters of war crimes they are and the absolute lunacy of being punished financially for calling out war crimes and breaches of int. Law.
Corybn did the same, he didn't call out the attacks on him for what they were, lies. He took too soft an approach and ultimately left the lies fill the vacuum left by his silence.
MR2 made a great point that it's easy to argue and pontificate under our pseudonyms here on the board or in safe private spaces. I wouldn't open my mouth about any of this at my work place in NYC, or even somewhere like Facebook. Part of that is because there are no easy answers and I'm far from an expert, but also because the person I'm talking to or who sees my blathering might be a diehard lover of Israel and why invite the discord?
Points taken. But there are ways to bring this stuff up on Facebook (etc) without sticking your neck out too much. You can post up links by moderate Israeli Jews who are opposed to the Israeli military (e.g. Peter Beinart or Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg). There are also videos of family members of hostages or those murdered by Hamas calling for peace. I think one can reasonably put those up as a counterbalance to the blind support for Israel in some parts of the media without having to engage in a flame war.
Those of us Stateside should also write to our representatives/congresspeople to ask the US Government to urge restraint.
I'm under no illusions about the likelihood of any of these actions being efficacious in terms of altering the present course of events. But I do think in some sense it is important to register opposition.
Netanyahu in 2019:
"Those who want to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state should support the strengthening of Hamas, and the transfer of money to Hamas," Netanyahu said in March 2019. "This is part of our strategy, to differentiate between the Palestinians in Gaza and the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria [i.e., the West Bank]." Whoops.
https://newrepublic.com/article/176181/hamas-attacks-war-crimes-netanyahu (https://newrepublic.com/article/176181/hamas-attacks-war-crimes-netanyahu)
Israeli PM's office has confirmed that Israel declined to accept two Israeli hostages from Hamas, stating that they will not address what is considered to be "mendacious propaganda" by the group.
And then today they accidentally bombed a piece of Egypt. I don't think they have blamed Hamas yet, this one was just a "mistake"
Poor old Whitey never did get round to explaining what was wrong with Cosgraves twitter post. As Cowardly as an Israeli you might say
Quote from: Itchy on October 22, 2023, 08:21:42 PMPoor old Whitey never did get round to explaining what was wrong with Cosgraves twitter post. As Cowardly as an Israeli you might say
Brown people=bad is about the height of his reasoning
I don't think from the reports I've read that they have blamed anyone but themselves?
Maybe you could post something that says different?
Cosgraves saying all the right things but has now realised the folly of his actions and can't actually from this point forward, make a difference in ensuring (within his job role at the time) of restricting job opportunities in Israel, probably increased businesses in those areas now..
Like I said earlier he's probably sorted in life so can say what he wants
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1022/1412204-israel-analysis/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1022/1412204-israel-analysis/)
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2023, 08:57:21 PMhttps://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1022/1412204-israel-analysis/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1022/1412204-israel-analysis/)
This article does have one point, if Hamas will send out people to go around houses killing people then it quite capable of lying. However, other evidence cannot be ignored.
Quote from: Itchy on October 22, 2023, 09:48:03 PMWhat I said
And then today they accidentally bombed a piece of Egypt. I don't think they have blamed Hamas yet, this one was just a "mistake"
What Miltown replies
I don't think from the reports I've read that they have blamed anyone but themselves?
Maybe you could post something that says different?
Am I missing something?
You were implying that the reports from Israel would change by blaming hamas at some point, and that wasn't the case!
When you start to look for made up stuff you will look silly.
Seems very easy for you, so carry on.
But keep remembering, I'm on the Palestinians side, but I'll pull you on makey up stuff
Quote from: Itchy on October 22, 2023, 10:03:47 PMI didn't imply anything. I know you were a poor effort of a teacher but do you not have a basic grasp of the English yet. I did however imply it wasn't a mistake.
You've no idea of my teaching skills by the way.
But your comprehension skills well not inspire the next generation
Quote from: Itchy on October 22, 2023, 10:25:41 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on October 22, 2023, 10:16:59 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 22, 2023, 10:03:47 PMI didn't imply anything. I know you were a poor effort of a teacher but do you not have a basic grasp of the English yet. I did however imply it wasn't a mistake.
I thought I was on your side there but fcukin hell!
Apologies, I meant I didnt imply what Mr Miltown said I did.
Just go to bed
You say a lot of things..
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/11/beheaded-israeli-babies-settler-wipe-out-palestinian/ (https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/11/beheaded-israeli-babies-settler-wipe-out-palestinian/)
"Source of dubious 'beheaded babies' claim is Israeli settler leader who incited riots to 'wipe out' Palestinian village"
https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2023/1022/1412317-israel-ambassador-ireland/
Israeli Ambassador claims President is 'misinformed'
Updated / Sunday, 22 Oct 2023 19:39
Israeli Ambassador Dana Erlich, who last month presented her credentials to President Michael D Higgins, said she is 'concerned about spreading misinformation'
Israeli Ambassador Dana Erlich, who last month presented her credentials to President Michael D Higgins, said she is 'concerned about spreading misinformation'
By Fergal O'Brien
The Israeli Ambassador to Ireland has accused President Michael D Higgins of making misinformed comments after he accused Israel of breaking international law.
During a visit to Rome earlier this week, President Higgins addressed the conflict between Israel and Hamas on a number of occasions when speaking to reporters.
He said it was important to retain and insist on the veracity and cogency of international law.
Mr Higgins said: "To announce in advance that you will break international law and to do so on an innocent population, it reduces all the code that was there from second world war on protection of civilians and it reduces it to tatters."
In an interview with the Sunday Independent, Israel's Ambassador to Ireland claimed the President was misinformed in his remarks.
Dana Erlich, who last month presented her credentials to President Higgins, said she is "concerned about spreading misinformation".
"Israel is abiding by international law," she said.
A spokesperson for Michael D Higgins said the President's comments "related to the breach of international law that attacking civilians as collective punishment represents".
"The President has condemned all of the outrages and killings that have taken place and said that in responding to all of this it is important that international law is observed," the spokesperson said.
In a statement, the spokesperson said the President has "expressed his revulsion at the killing of civilians by Hamas, called for the immediate release of all hostages taken and has been clear that we must be absolutely unequivocal about anti-Semitic expression."
In the newspaper interview, the Israeli Ambassador also questioned Ireland's neutrality.
Ms Erlich said "there is a strong feeling in Israel that there is an unconscious bias against Israel in Ireland."
A pro-Israel rally took place outside the Israeli embassy in Dublin following the attack on Israel by Hamas on 7 October
'Standing up for all'
The Minister for the Environment and Green Party leader Eamon Ryan rejected the claim that Ireland is not neutral, saying Ireland is standing up for all innocent people affected by the conflict.
Speaking on RTÉ's The Week in Politics, Mr Ryan said it is simply not true to say because Ireland has sympathy for Israeli victims means we cannot also have sympathy for Palestinian victims.
Mr Ryan said Ireland "absolutely condemns Hamas" and has full sympathy for the "the history of Israelis".
However, he added that "that doesn't mean you don't also stand up for the Palestinian people".
Mr Ryan said "the bombing of civilians in Gaza is not going to achieve anything other than strife" in the region, and that Ireland is sympathetic to anyone caught up in the conflict.
Labour Party leader Ivan Bacik said the Israeli Ambassador's position "is now under question" after what she described as "outrageous" criticism of President Higgins' Gaza comments.
On The Week in Politics, Ms Bacik defended Mr Higgins and said "he did have a right" to raise the issue.
"The President has said nothing more than what [Government] has been saying," she said.
Ms Bacik continued that in her view the Israeli ambassador "has overstepped the line, I think it [the Israeli ambassador's comment] was outrageous".
"She accused him of breaking the law, of saying something that was untrue, and I think her position is now under question," the Labour leader added.
The Israeli ambassador is a mirror image of itchy. Unless you are 100% with them, then you are not neutral, there is no room for looking at any other side.
I see itchy totally lost himself last night, not for the first time. He's deleted all of his posts thankfully to mitigate his embarrassment. Hope all is okay.
I deleted my posts directed at Milltown and I have sent him a PM to apologise for my comments towards him.
Paddy finding out that you can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds. Will this nerd get-together still go ahead?
Israel says Gaza operation may take months but 1.5 m Gazans are displaced , Israel will not feed them even though under the Geneva Conventions as the occupier it is required to do so and public opinion is turning against Israel
Turkish aid https://twitter.com/trtworld/status/1716153796517068911
Montreal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E3RISVxrR8
Spain Soc BDS https://twitter.com/ChrisHu34451470/status/1714843415039606787
Egyptian woman https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1715345403875340542
Palestinian flag UK https://twitter.com/mikecmorgan/status/1715708735643877534
Egypt https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1715401519082660206
Yemen https://twitter.com/Kuffiyateam/status/1710700102967296419
Quote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 09:32:49 AMThe Israeli ambassador is a mirror image of itchy. Unless you are 100% with them, then you are not neutral, there is no room for looking at any other side.
I see itchy totally lost himself last night, not for the first time. He's deleted all of his posts thankfully to mitigate his embarrassment. Hope all is okay.
The Israeli ambassador is an ideologue who is trying to foist an alternative reality on the people of Ireland
Itchy is a Cavan fan who is concerned about the loss of life in Gaza.
You cannot compare the 2
There is no equivalence in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Israel is a predator/victim. This is something psychiatric
Quote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 10:45:19 AMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 09:32:49 AMThe Israeli ambassador is a mirror image of itchy. Unless you are 100% with them, then you are not neutral, there is no room for looking at any other side.
I see itchy totally lost himself last night, not for the first time. He's deleted all of his posts thankfully to mitigate his embarrassment. Hope all is okay.
The Israeli ambassador is an ideologue who is trying to foist an alternative reality on the people of Ireland
Itchy is a Cavan fan who is concerned about the loss of life in Gaza.
You cannot compare the 2
There is no equivalence in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Israel is a predator/victim. This is something psychiatric
Wrongs committed on both sides need to be condemned, as the Irish government and president have been doing.
Quote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 09:32:49 AMThe Israeli ambassador is a mirror image of itchy. Unless you are 100% with them, then you are not neutral, there is no room for looking at any other side.
I see itchy totally lost himself last night, not for the first time. He's deleted all of his posts thankfully to mitigate his embarrassment. Hope all is okay.
So if he's done that is there any need for you to rub it in?
Quote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 12:07:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 10:45:19 AMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 09:32:49 AMThe Israeli ambassador is a mirror image of itchy. Unless you are 100% with them, then you are not neutral, there is no room for looking at any other side.
I see itchy totally lost himself last night, not for the first time. He's deleted all of his posts thankfully to mitigate his embarrassment. Hope all is okay.
The Israeli ambassador is an ideologue who is trying to foist an alternative reality on the people of Ireland
Itchy is a Cavan fan who is concerned about the loss of life in Gaza.
You cannot compare the 2
There is no equivalence in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Israel is a predator/victim. This is something psychiatric
Wrongs committed on both sides need to be condemned, as the Irish government and president have been doing.
Israel has displaced 1.5 m people , killed over 100 children and bombed hospitals. It is also running a total siege. There is no equivalence to what Hamas did.
Nearly 5k killed in last few weeks according to BBC
Exactly Dougal, Sometimes we go down a rabbit hole and get lost in emotions and say things we probably shouldn't say or we'd defo not say to someone face to face, that's the forum way, it is great btw, but a small reflection of how people think on this wee island.
We are starting to become more left or more right... We are certainly less center and that will cause more friction and annoyance.
Look after your own and families welfare first, we have no control on what goes on in those conflicts around the world and jabbering on here about won't change that.
I'm thick skinned Itchy, years of refereeing will do that so no need to appolgise to me in fairness, I love a wee argument to get through the day ;D
Absolutely MR. Hope all is good with you
Quote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
So, Hound? Given that Channel 4 have referenced expert opinion which suggests that the evidence relayed by the Israelis in their press conference about the hospital attack was misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated, do you stand by your belief that they were being "open and transparent" in said press conference?
Israel lied about mass rape, Shani Louk, beheaded babies, disembowelled women abused corpses and the hospital bombing
40 babies beheaded https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1711718195025821976
Do not share videos https://twitter.com/HananyaNaftali/status/1711848780964720936
Pregnant woman disembowelled https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1711760097607647514
ISr autopsies https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1713872752040362407
Regev hospital https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1714375618983236061
Rape, babies fake https://twitter.com/BTriagain/status/1711830333656535480
Shani Louk https://twitter.com/MadridPanther/status/1711868247383953428
Israel needs months but its PR campaign is going tits up. Prominent UK Zionists like Dan Hodges want to the UK Govt to ban public marches. It's hard to see how UK media stars can sell zionist propaganda to Brits going forward Even Yanks are joining the dots
Hospital evidence https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715437877604049094
2 weeks UK media https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1715987601738620982
Madely WW2 analogy https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1713803445256204421
Was it worth defeating the Nazis https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1714011361716433264
**C4 explanation https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1714779839826141381
**KGM Isr Amb https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715052724952179075
Quote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 03:30:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
So, Hound? Given that Channel 4 have referenced expert opinion which suggests that the evidence relayed by the Israelis in their press conference about the hospital attack was misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated, do you stand by your belief that they were being "open and transparent" in said press conference?
Christ almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent - they were providing information that could be rebutted or not, they took questions from both, what they would see as, friendly and unfriendly journalists. This was different than previous press conferences when they would only take questions (probably pre-approved) from select journalists.
Is it just the recordings that two 'independent Arab experts' have questioned that you are saying was fabricated, or is there more? Those recordings always were very flimsy in terms of so called 'evidence' and hold no water either way. The site itself is key. From what I have seen, C4 have not said the evidence points to Israel doing it, they said they have not reached a conclusion. But if there is new stuff please share.
Here is the CNN analysis. Very thorough and still not completely conclusive. Lots of independent experts and not all yanks. I think if Israel did it, Hamas would have been able to produce evidence from the site, but still can't point either way for sure.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html
I see the UK (who had been silent on it so far) have now said the evidence they have looked at points to the weapon that hit the hospital coming from Gaza and not from Israel. Wording used is 'likely' so still not absolute.
But it's important to remember that if this was an errant Palestinian rocket, and not Israel, it doesn't lessen what Israel has actually done by one iota. But people dismissing all possibilities that this could have been a Palestinian rocket (and calling people idiots because they believe Israel might not have done this particular incident) are being ridiculous.
Quote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 03:30:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
So, Hound? Given that Channel 4 have referenced expert opinion which suggests that the evidence relayed by the Israelis in their press conference about the hospital attack was misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated, do you stand by your belief that they were being "open and transparent" in said press conference?
Christ almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent - they were providing information that could be rebutted or not, they took questions from both, what they would see as, friendly and unfriendly journalists. This was different than previous press conferences when they would only take questions (probably pre-approved) from select journalists.
Is it just the recordings that two 'independent Arab experts' have questioned that you are saying was fabricated, or is there more? Those recordings always were very flimsy in terms of so called 'evidence' and hold no water either way. The site itself is key. From what I have seen, C4 have not said the evidence points to Israel doing it, they said they have not reached a conclusion. But if there is new stuff please share.
Here is the CNN analysis. Very thorough and still not completely conclusive. Lots of independent experts and not all yanks. I think if Israel did it, Hamas would have been able to produce evidence from the site, but still can't point either way for sure.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html
I see the UK (who had been silent on it so far) have now said the evidence they have looked at points to the weapon that hit the hospital coming from Gaza and not from Israel. Wording used is 'likely' so still not absolute.
CNN took the Israeli line . So did Biden
The Israeli ambassador tried to convince Krishnan Guru Murthy that Israel didn't bomb the hospital.She justified her position citing Biden.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715052724952179075
I agree with Krishnan Guru Murthy. You can't say with certainty that Israel didn't do it, and you can't say with certainty that Israel did do it. I definitely would not agree with that woman saying the recording proves anything at all.
There's a great question and answers segment on 5 live now..
Questions from the general public regarding the history and reasons behind the current war.
Quote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMChrist almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent
Incorrect. You didn't say they were trying to "be seen" to be open and transparent in their press conference. You said they were anxious to "BE open and transparent". Two very, very different things.
And I'm not talking about a voice recording as a piece of evidence in its own right. I'm talking about the expert opinion that it is suggesting this specific voice recording was fabricated (two voices recorded separately and edited together with additional sound effects added to the track).
So I'd have thought that it is beyond question, that there is at the very least a reasonable doubt as to whether the evidence presented by the Israelis in their press conference was real and not falsified/fabricated.
So my question (again) is not whether you think the Israelis were trying to "seem" open and transparent (because of course they were trying to SEEM that way ffs), or whether you still stand by your initial claim that they were "anxious to BE open and transparent".
Quote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMI see the UK (who had been silent on it so far) have now said the evidence they have looked at points to the weapon that hit the hospital coming from Gaza and not from Israel.
Oh well there we have it then. I mean if the Brits said so, it
must be true. I think I can speak for every six county nationalist when I ask you if you typed that bit with a straight face?
Quote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 06:29:01 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMChrist almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent
Incorrect. You didn't say they were trying to "be seen" to be open and transparent in their press conference. You said they were anxious to "BE open and transparent". Two very, very different things.
And I'm not talking about a voice recording as a piece of evidence in its own right. I'm talking about the expert opinion that it is suggesting this specific voice recording was fabricated (two voices recorded separately and edited together with additional sound effects added to the track).
So I'd have thought that it is beyond question, that there is at the very least a reasonable doubt as to whether the evidence presented by the Israelis in their press conference was real and not falsified/fabricated.
So my question (again) is not whether you think the Israelis were trying to "seem" open and transparent (because of course they were trying to SEEM that way ffs), or whether you still stand by your initial claim that they were "anxious to BE open and transparent".
Snap, do you feel confident that it was an Israeli missile strike? Similar to the ones that have been happening daily?
The question of whether babies were beheaded is a bit like arguing over whether the hospital was bombed or its car park. It is absolutely important to have correct facts but it also doesn't change the death toll.
As for the hospital evidence seems contradictory, perhaps it was some sort of black ops thing by one side to blame the other?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2023, 06:30:53 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 06:29:01 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMChrist almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent
Incorrect. You didn't say they were trying to "be seen" to be open and transparent in their press conference. You said they were anxious to "BE open and transparent". Two very, very different things.
And I'm not talking about a voice recording as a piece of evidence in its own right. I'm talking about the expert opinion that it is suggesting this specific voice recording was fabricated (two voices recorded separately and edited together with additional sound effects added to the track).
So I'd have thought that it is beyond question, that there is at the very least a reasonable doubt as to whether the evidence presented by the Israelis in their press conference was real and not falsified/fabricated.
So my question (again) is not whether you think the Israelis were trying to "seem" open and transparent (because of course they were trying to SEEM that way ffs), or whether you still stand by your initial claim that they were "anxious to BE open and transparent".
Snap, do you feel confident that it was an Israeli missile strike? Similar to the ones that have been happening daily?
Of course the Israelis bombed the Hospital. Israeli spokesman Hanana Naftali confirmed that the hospital was targeted on Twitter before the spin developed and he deleted his tweet. Israel previously bombed hospitals in Beirut and Gaza.
Israeli army open and transparent is a joke.
Quote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 06:39:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2023, 06:30:53 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 06:29:01 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMChrist almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent
Incorrect. You didn't say they were trying to "be seen" to be open and transparent in their press conference. You said they were anxious to "BE open and transparent". Two very, very different things.
And I'm not talking about a voice recording as a piece of evidence in its own right. I'm talking about the expert opinion that it is suggesting this specific voice recording was fabricated (two voices recorded separately and edited together with additional sound effects added to the track).
So I'd have thought that it is beyond question, that there is at the very least a reasonable doubt as to whether the evidence presented by the Israelis in their press conference was real and not falsified/fabricated.
So my question (again) is not whether you think the Israelis were trying to "seem" open and transparent (because of course they were trying to SEEM that way ffs), or whether you still stand by your initial claim that they were "anxious to BE open and transparent".
Snap, do you feel confident that it was an Israeli missile strike? Similar to the ones that have been happening daily?
Of course the Israelis bombed the Hospital. Israeli spokesman Hanana Naftali confirmed that the hospital was targeted on Twitter before the spin developed and he deleted his tweet. Israel previously bombed hospitals in Beirut and Gaza.
Israeli army open and transparent is a joke.
I've asked someone else the question, but previously blowing up churches, schools hospitals and buildings is not what we are talking about, I've seen multiple 'experts' on multiple news stations claiming xy and z..
At this point it doesn't really matter, as everybody knows the Israeli government has lied so many times in the past, it sorta falls on deaf ears.
I'm not on the ground and have as much expertise on the situation as you and your google button.
Nearly 5000 deaths or more and more than double that soon enough, how many deaths will be enough for the Israeli government?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2023, 06:30:53 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 06:29:01 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMChrist almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent
Incorrect. You didn't say they were trying to "be seen" to be open and transparent in their press conference. You said they were anxious to "BE open and transparent". Two very, very different things.
And I'm not talking about a voice recording as a piece of evidence in its own right. I'm talking about the expert opinion that it is suggesting this specific voice recording was fabricated (two voices recorded separately and edited together with additional sound effects added to the track).
So I'd have thought that it is beyond question, that there is at the very least a reasonable doubt as to whether the evidence presented by the Israelis in their press conference was real and not falsified/fabricated.
So my question (again) is not whether you think the Israelis were trying to "seem" open and transparent (because of course they were trying to SEEM that way ffs), or whether you still stand by your initial claim that they were "anxious to BE open and transparent".
Snap, do you feel confident that it was an Israeli missile strike? Similar to the ones that have been happening daily?
Can I prove Israel bombed it? Of course not. Am I confident that they
did bomb it? Absolutely. I mean, they did already bomb it twice earlier that same week and they also stated their intention to carry out this third attack.
Mind you, Israel said they didn't actually do this third bombing, and, Hound now says the Brits have stated that they don't believe Israel didn't bomb it, and as we all know, the Brits have never lied about anything, especially not about state murder of civilians. Never ever ever. So it's a real toughie alright.
Don't fall into the trap of they did it before and they'll do it again, I'm no way disputing that they carried out previous attacks.
Just this attack I'm looking at.
They more than likely did but with all the conflicting evidence it's not definitive for me, or a lay person like yourself.
Israel should have been able to show the timing of rockets fired at that time, the Americans should have that info as well, via their own satellite capabilities. But it's telling they haven't been able to, or at this stage would anyone believe them!
We should be well aware of that growing up here, were we've never got the truth on so many deaths.
Like I said earlier it's disgusting knowing what's going to happen next
2 more hostages released both in their 80's. they are the two hostages the Israelis refused to take yesterday.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 23, 2023, 07:51:55 PM2 more hostages released both in their 80's. they are the two hostages the Israelis refused to take yesterday.
Who took them?
who took them hostage or who took them as Israel refused to take them earlier? its not hard to use Google or twitter to find out either!!!
Hamas released them to the Red Cross(I believe) and then into Eygpt and then Israel. It is not the same two Israel refused yesterday. Its only 1 of the 2.
I can only guess that Israel was bombing so much yesterday and didn't want to stop so refused the release.
Where is the Israel Hamas war headed? Could it lead to WWIII? (https://x.com/i/spaces/1vOGwjnqylmKB)
Good discussion on Twitter at the minute
I'm not sure of the context of your post, are you saying that it's a good thing?
Quote from: theskull1 on October 23, 2023, 09:38:48 PMWhere is the Israel Hamas war headed? Could it lead to WWIII? (https://x.com/i/spaces/1vOGwjnqylmKB)
Good discussion on Twitter at the minute
I would have a bad feeling this thing is going to spiral soon enough and it could end up very bad. Russia visiting Iran and various other things going on.
The world not in a healthy state :(
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2023, 07:31:40 PMDon't fall into the trap of they did it before and they'll do it again, I'm no way disputing that they carried out previous attacks.
Just this attack I'm looking at.
They more than likely did but with all the conflicting evidence it's not definitive for me, or a lay person like yourself.
Israel should have been able to show the timing of rockets fired at that time, the Americans should have that info as well, via their own satellite capabilities. But it's telling they haven't been able to, or at this stage would anyone believe them!
We should be well aware of that growing up here, were we've never got the truth on so many deaths.
Like I said earlier it's disgusting knowing what's going to happen next
It's not definitive in that we don't have the evidence, but as far as I'm concerned, it's the experience of living here which has taught me that nobody should take a state like Israel at their word. And their record of being caught out lying about war crimes and murders demonstrates that I'm right to not take them at their word.
As I said earlier, just because I can't definitely prove it was an Israeli attack, doesn't mean I'm not absolutely confident that it
was an Israeli attack, and not just because of their denials, but because of a multitude of other reasons which, as I've previously outlined, make it a textbook Occam's razor scenario, where the most simple explanation is generally the right one: The hospital was most likely bombed by the group that bombed it twice previously the same week, that said they were going to bomb it again, that has bombed a succession of other hospitals and civilian buildings in the last fortnight, that has dropped over 6000 bombs on buildings in the region in the last fortnight and which produced evidence to support their denials of responsibility which experts have suggested may have been fabricated/falsified.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 23, 2023, 09:52:58 PMQuote from: theskull1 on October 23, 2023, 09:38:48 PMWhere is the Israel Hamas war headed? Could it lead to WWIII? (https://x.com/i/spaces/1vOGwjnqylmKB)
Good discussion on Twitter at the minute
I would have a bad feeling this thing is going to spiral soon enough and it could end up very bad. Russia visiting Iran and various other things going on.
The world not in a healthy state :(
That's for sure. Look at what Iran do to their own women/girls when they don't conform, there's no telling what they could do. And no doubt not only did Iran fund the Hamas atrocities of October 7, but probably also helped with the planning. And was it a coincidence that it happened when it seemed Saudi and Israel were very close to an agreement?
The Dutch PM over in Israel today, the latest in the line for shaking hands with Big Benjamin. Hamas have played so much into his hands, he just can't believe his luck, smiling like the cat that got the cream.
Quote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 10:25:37 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 23, 2023, 09:52:58 PMQuote from: theskull1 on October 23, 2023, 09:38:48 PMWhere is the Israel Hamas war headed? Could it lead to WWIII? (https://x.com/i/spaces/1vOGwjnqylmKB)
Good discussion on Twitter at the minute
I would have a bad feeling this thing is going to spiral soon enough and it could end up very bad. Russia visiting Iran and various other things going on.
The world not in a healthy state :(
That's for sure. Look at what Iran do to their own women/girls when they don't conform, there's no telling what they could do. And no doubt not only did Iran fund the Hamas atrocities of October 7, but probably also helped with the planning. And was it a coincidence that it happened when it seemed Saudi and Israel were very close to an agreement?
The Dutch PM over in Israel today, the latest in the line for shaking hands with Big Benjamin. Hamas have played so much into his hands, he just can't believe his luck, smiling like the cat that got the cream.
One more spineless bastard to add to the list.
Quote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 06:07:41 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 03:30:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
So, Hound? Given that Channel 4 have referenced expert opinion which suggests that the evidence relayed by the Israelis in their press conference about the hospital attack was misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated, do you stand by your belief that they were being "open and transparent" in said press conference?
Christ almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent - they were providing information that could be rebutted or not, they took questions from both, what they would see as, friendly and unfriendly journalists. This was different than previous press conferences when they would only take questions (probably pre-approved) from select journalists.
Is it just the recordings that two 'independent Arab experts' have questioned that you are saying was fabricated, or is there more? Those recordings always were very flimsy in terms of so called 'evidence' and hold no water either way. The site itself is key. From what I have seen, C4 have not said the evidence points to Israel doing it, they said they have not reached a conclusion. But if there is new stuff please share.
Here is the CNN analysis. Very thorough and still not completely conclusive. Lots of independent experts and not all yanks. I think if Israel did it, Hamas would have been able to produce evidence from the site, but still can't point either way for sure.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html
I see the UK (who had been silent on it so far) have now said the evidence they have looked at points to the weapon that hit the hospital coming from Gaza and not from Israel. Wording used is 'likely' so still not absolute.
CNN took the Israeli line . So did Biden
The Israeli ambassador tried to convince Krishnan Guru Murthy that Israel didn't bomb the hospital.She justified her position citing Biden.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715052724952179075
Quote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 06:07:41 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 03:30:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
So, Hound? Given that Channel 4 have referenced expert opinion which suggests that the evidence relayed by the Israelis in their press conference about the hospital attack was misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated, do you stand by your belief that they were being "open and transparent" in said press conference?
Christ almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent - they were providing information that could be rebutted or not, they took questions from both, what they would see as, friendly and unfriendly journalists. This was different than previous press conferences when they would only take questions (probably pre-approved) from select journalists.
Is it just the recordings that two 'independent Arab experts' have questioned that you are saying was fabricated, or is there more? Those recordings always were very flimsy in terms of so called 'evidence' and hold no water either way. The site itself is key. From what I have seen, C4 have not said the evidence points to Israel doing it, they said they have not reached a conclusion. But if there is new stuff please share.
Here is the CNN analysis. Very thorough and still not completely conclusive. Lots of independent experts and not all yanks. I think if Israel did it, Hamas would have been able to produce evidence from the site, but still can't point either way for sure.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html
I see the UK (who had been silent on it so far) have now said the evidence they have looked at points to the weapon that hit the hospital coming from Gaza and not from Israel. Wording used is 'likely' so still not absolute.
CNN took the Israeli line . So did Biden
The Israeli ambassador tried to convince Krishnan Guru Murthy that Israel didn't bomb the hospital.She justified her position citing Biden.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715052724952179075
She argues about hamas killing their own. There is strong evidence to suggest that Israel killed a significant number of their own eople in the 7th Oct attacks. A tactic they have employed before.
They decided to shell buildings in kibbutzs where hamas where hiding out knowing they would kill plenty of their own citizens.
Terrible altogether.
Have deleted everything BBC I can at this stage.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2023, 06:30:53 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 06:29:01 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMChrist almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent
Incorrect. You didn't say they were trying to "be seen" to be open and transparent in their press conference. You said they were anxious to "BE open and transparent". Two very, very different things.
And I'm not talking about a voice recording as a piece of evidence in its own right. I'm talking about the expert opinion that it is suggesting this specific voice recording was fabricated (two voices recorded separately and edited together with additional sound effects added to the track).
So I'd have thought that it is beyond question, that there is at the very least a reasonable doubt as to whether the evidence presented by the Israelis in their press conference was real and not falsified/fabricated.
So my question (again) is not whether you think the Israelis were trying to "seem" open and transparent (because of course they were trying to SEEM that way ffs), or whether you still stand by your initial claim that they were "anxious to BE open and transparent".
Snap, do you feel confident that it was an Israeli missile strike? Similar to the ones that have been happening daily?
Did you read the CNN link MR? What was your take on that?
Quote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 10:25:37 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 23, 2023, 09:52:58 PMQuote from: theskull1 on October 23, 2023, 09:38:48 PMWhere is the Israel Hamas war headed? Could it lead to WWIII? (https://x.com/i/spaces/1vOGwjnqylmKB)
Good discussion on Twitter at the minute
I would have a bad feeling this thing is going to spiral soon enough and it could end up very bad. Russia visiting Iran and various other things going on.
The world not in a healthy state :(
That's for sure. Look at what Iran do to their own women/girls when they don't conform, there's no telling what they could do. And no doubt not only did Iran fund the Hamas atrocities of October 7, but probably also helped with the planning. And was it a coincidence that it happened when it seemed Saudi and Israel were very close to an agreement?
The Dutch PM over in Israel today, the latest in the line for shaking hands with Big Benjamin. Hamas have played so much into his hands, he just can't believe his luck, smiling like the cat that got the cream.
Ireland hardly has a strong history of looking after our own women and babies.
given the 'west' created Israel and supports Israel its not like the Palestinian resistence can get their weapons and funding from them, they are too busy funding Ukraine to stop that occupation.
80% of Israelis in a recent poll blamed Benjamin for what happened, strong rumours of a split/resignations in his Govt.
as a previous posters commented, there is growing evidence of Israelis bombing the kibbutz's taking no care for Israelis who were captive. This shouldn't be much of a surprise given their history of this, and comments made on the 7th.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2023, 06:48:15 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 06:39:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2023, 06:30:53 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 06:29:01 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMChrist almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent
Incorrect. You didn't say they were trying to "be seen" to be open and transparent in their press conference. You said they were anxious to "BE open and transparent". Two very, very different things.
And I'm not talking about a voice recording as a piece of evidence in its own right. I'm talking about the expert opinion that it is suggesting this specific voice recording was fabricated (two voices recorded separately and edited together with additional sound effects added to the track).
So I'd have thought that it is beyond question, that there is at the very least a reasonable doubt as to whether the evidence presented by the Israelis in their press conference was real and not falsified/fabricated.
So my question (again) is not whether you think the Israelis were trying to "seem" open and transparent (because of course they were trying to SEEM that way ffs), or whether you still stand by your initial claim that they were "anxious to BE open and transparent".
Snap, do you feel confident that it was an Israeli missile strike? Similar to the ones that have been happening daily?
Of course the Israelis bombed the Hospital. Israeli spokesman Hanana Naftali confirmed that the hospital was targeted on Twitter before the spin developed and he deleted his tweet. Israel previously bombed hospitals in Beirut and Gaza.
Israeli army open and transparent is a joke.
I've asked someone else the question, but previously blowing up churches, schools hospitals and buildings is not what we are talking about, I've seen multiple 'experts' on multiple news stations claiming xy and z..
At this point it doesn't really matter, as everybody knows the Israeli government has lied so many times in the past, it sorta falls on deaf ears.
I'm not on the ground and have as much expertise on the situation as you and your google button.
Nearly 5000 deaths or more and more than double that soon enough, how many deaths will be enough for the Israeli government?
Is it cos your Prime Minister said so on BBC "Northern Ireland"?
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1716473178845745544
Quote from: WT4E on October 23, 2023, 10:32:33 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 06:07:41 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 03:30:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
So, Hound? Given that Channel 4 have referenced expert opinion which suggests that the evidence relayed by the Israelis in their press conference about the hospital attack was misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated, do you stand by your belief that they were being "open and transparent" in said press conference?
Christ almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent - they were providing information that could be rebutted or not, they took questions from both, what they would see as, friendly and unfriendly journalists. This was different than previous press conferences when they would only take questions (probably pre-approved) from select journalists.
Is it just the recordings that two 'independent Arab experts' have questioned that you are saying was fabricated, or is there more? Those recordings always were very flimsy in terms of so called 'evidence' and hold no water either way. The site itself is key. From what I have seen, C4 have not said the evidence points to Israel doing it, they said they have not reached a conclusion. But if there is new stuff please share.
Here is the CNN analysis. Very thorough and still not completely conclusive. Lots of independent experts and not all yanks. I think if Israel did it, Hamas would have been able to produce evidence from the site, but still can't point either way for sure.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html
I see the UK (who had been silent on it so far) have now said the evidence they have looked at points to the weapon that hit the hospital coming from Gaza and not from Israel. Wording used is 'likely' so still not absolute.
CNN took the Israeli line . So did Biden
The Israeli ambassador tried to convince Krishnan Guru Murthy that Israel didn't bomb the hospital.She justified her position citing Biden.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715052724952179075
Quote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 06:07:41 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 03:30:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
So, Hound? Given that Channel 4 have referenced expert opinion which suggests that the evidence relayed by the Israelis in their press conference about the hospital attack was misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated, do you stand by your belief that they were being "open and transparent" in said press conference?
Christ almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent - they were providing information that could be rebutted or not, they took questions from both, what they would see as, friendly and unfriendly journalists. This was different than previous press conferences when they would only take questions (probably pre-approved) from select journalists.
Is it just the recordings that two 'independent Arab experts' have questioned that you are saying was fabricated, or is there more? Those recordings always were very flimsy in terms of so called 'evidence' and hold no water either way. The site itself is key. From what I have seen, C4 have not said the evidence points to Israel doing it, they said they have not reached a conclusion. But if there is new stuff please share.
Here is the CNN analysis. Very thorough and still not completely conclusive. Lots of independent experts and not all yanks. I think if Israel did it, Hamas would have been able to produce evidence from the site, but still can't point either way for sure.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html
I see the UK (who had been silent on it so far) have now said the evidence they have looked at points to the weapon that hit the hospital coming from Gaza and not from Israel. Wording used is 'likely' so still not absolute.
CNN took the Israeli line . So did Biden
The Israeli ambassador tried to convince Krishnan Guru Murthy that Israel didn't bomb the hospital.She justified her position citing Biden.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715052724952179075
She argues about hamas killing their own. There is strong evidence to suggest that Israel killed a significant number of their own eople in the 7th Oct attacks. A tactic they have employed before.
They decided to shell buildings in kibbutzs where hamas where hiding out knowing they would kill plenty of their own citizens.
Terrible altogether.
Have deleted everything BBC I can at this stage.
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/
This is an important contribution from Obama, which reflects thinking in political circles in the US.
There is no going back to Netanyahu's occupation. The Yanks are not going to sacrifice Middle East stability for the sake of AIPAC
https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1716524464643375138
Quote from: seafoid on October 24, 2023, 05:35:53 AMQuote from: WT4E on October 23, 2023, 10:32:33 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 06:07:41 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 03:30:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
So, Hound? Given that Channel 4 have referenced expert opinion which suggests that the evidence relayed by the Israelis in their press conference about the hospital attack was misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated, do you stand by your belief that they were being "open and transparent" in said press conference?
Christ almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent - they were providing information that could be rebutted or not, they took questions from both, what they would see as, friendly and unfriendly journalists. This was different than previous press conferences when they would only take questions (probably pre-approved) from select journalists.
Is it just the recordings that two 'independent Arab experts' have questioned that you are saying was fabricated, or is there more? Those recordings always were very flimsy in terms of so called 'evidence' and hold no water either way. The site itself is key. From what I have seen, C4 have not said the evidence points to Israel doing it, they said they have not reached a conclusion. But if there is new stuff please share.
Here is the CNN analysis. Very thorough and still not completely conclusive. Lots of independent experts and not all yanks. I think if Israel did it, Hamas would have been able to produce evidence from the site, but still can't point either way for sure.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html
I see the UK (who had been silent on it so far) have now said the evidence they have looked at points to the weapon that hit the hospital coming from Gaza and not from Israel. Wording used is 'likely' so still not absolute.
CNN took the Israeli line . So did Biden
The Israeli ambassador tried to convince Krishnan Guru Murthy that Israel didn't bomb the hospital.She justified her position citing Biden.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715052724952179075
Quote from: seafoid on October 23, 2023, 06:07:41 PMQuote from: Hound on October 23, 2023, 05:26:21 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 23, 2023, 03:30:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on October 20, 2023, 11:50:33 PMQuote from: Hound on October 20, 2023, 11:36:43 PMI totally agree with C4 that there's not enough evidence to decide either way. (Unlike you, who made up your mind immediately with no evidence and ignore all the evidence on one side and jump on the evidence on the other side).
What's the difference? You made up your mind based on one Israeli press conference.
Do you agree with Channel 4 that the version of events/evidence presented by Israel during that press conference looks likely to have been misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated? Do you still believe that they were being "open and transparent" about the attack in the press conference, which is what you immediately claimed after you watched it?
So, Hound? Given that Channel 4 have referenced expert opinion which suggests that the evidence relayed by the Israelis in their press conference about the hospital attack was misleading and potentially falsified/fabricated, do you stand by your belief that they were being "open and transparent" in said press conference?
Christ almighty, talk about getting hung up on one point.
As I said before, at that press conference the IDF were doing their best to be seen as open and transparent - they were providing information that could be rebutted or not, they took questions from both, what they would see as, friendly and unfriendly journalists. This was different than previous press conferences when they would only take questions (probably pre-approved) from select journalists.
Is it just the recordings that two 'independent Arab experts' have questioned that you are saying was fabricated, or is there more? Those recordings always were very flimsy in terms of so called 'evidence' and hold no water either way. The site itself is key. From what I have seen, C4 have not said the evidence points to Israel doing it, they said they have not reached a conclusion. But if there is new stuff please share.
Here is the CNN analysis. Very thorough and still not completely conclusive. Lots of independent experts and not all yanks. I think if Israel did it, Hamas would have been able to produce evidence from the site, but still can't point either way for sure.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html
I see the UK (who had been silent on it so far) have now said the evidence they have looked at points to the weapon that hit the hospital coming from Gaza and not from Israel. Wording used is 'likely' so still not absolute.
CNN took the Israeli line . So did Biden
The Israeli ambassador tried to convince Krishnan Guru Murthy that Israel didn't bomb the hospital.She justified her position citing Biden.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1715052724952179075
She argues about hamas killing their own. There is strong evidence to suggest that Israel killed a significant number of their own eople in the 7th Oct attacks. A tactic they have employed before.
They decided to shell buildings in kibbutzs where hamas where hiding out knowing they would kill plenty of their own citizens.
Terrible altogether.
Have deleted everything BBC I can at this stage.
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/
Like Hamas, Israel are not above creating a few martyrs.
The Palestinian and Israeli people are caught in a struggle between a nihilistic death cult and an ethnic-fascist machine that wants to oblige them.
One of the big differences between the North and the rest of the island rears its ugly head in times of war. The UK is currently run in the interest of MI5 and maintaining the global power system. The UK media reflects that.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1715987601738620982
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1713803445256204421
RTE is Irish and reflects Irish culture which always stands up for modern day Croppies because that is who we were. The GAA emerged out of that history. Every parish is equal. It's the opposite of British war culture.
https://twitter.com/speirin/status/1712970747457507810
https://twitter.com/umyaznemo/status/1712911970041577885
Dies Netanyahu and his gang of thugs realise that they have created maybe 50,000 new guerrillas to fight them in the future by their indiscriminate bombing and killing of Civilians including 2,000 children
Arrogant use of brute force seldom pays off.
from Rte correspondant - At least 5,791 Palestinians have been killed in Israeli strikes on Gaza since Oct 7, according to its health ministry, including 2,360 children. It added 704 Palestinians had been killed in the previous 24 hours alone.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2023, 03:19:25 PMDies Netanyahu and his gang of thugs realise that they have created maybe 50,000 new guerrillas to fight them in the future by their indiscriminate bombing and killing of Civilians including 2,000 children
Arrogant use of brute force seldom pays off.
Dunno. Look at Hiroshima. Look at Nagasaki. Even Dresden. If anything, the Israelis aren't going hard enough. I remember our old history teacher saying there's no use in being half-assed about using force: either don't use it at all, or use it so brutally that the population will be cowed into submission. Thus, if there's a sniper in a block of flats, destroy the whole block of flats. Make the populace see there's no profit in harbouring insurgents. He was talking about putting down unrest in the Eastern Bloc countries (and he was a communist), but the same could apply here. Mind you, the Israelis are possibly getting there in the brutality stakes.
I see the New York Times has become the latest media outlet to question the evidence Israel has presented on the hospital attack following an analysis of the video Israel used as evidence.
To quote their artcile:
"The Times concluded that the missile in the video was never near the hospital. It was launched from Israel, not Gaza, and appears to have exploded above the Israeli-Gaza border, at least two miles away from the hospital."
Their investigation also suggests that the hospital attack took place at a time when:
"footage suggests that Israeli bombardment was taking place and that two explosions near the hospital can be seen within two minutes of it being struck."
Hound, I know I've asked you this a few times to no avail, but I may as well try again: do you stand by your claim that Israel was "anxious to BE open and transparent" about the hospital attack during their press conference?
The UN Secretary General has grown a big, bold set of balls and come out and said out loud what we all know and think.
Will he last today in his job?
If he's forced to resign then you might as well bin the UN as an entity, they're only the play things for the US and it's allies.
Terrorist state. Shame on anyone supporting those scum
Snapchap, I'm not sure if you're blind or a just lying if you are saying I have not responded to that question. But I'm certainly not going to answer the same question again and again and again!
I would be interested in reading that full NY Times article. Their headline suggests that there's still not enough evidence to determine either way but I can't read the full article.
Did you read the CNN article?
Quote from: johnnycool on October 25, 2023, 08:04:00 AMThe UN Secretary General has grown a big, bold set of balls and come out and said out loud what we all know and think.
Will he last today in his job?
If he's forced to resign then you might as well bin the UN as an entity, they're only the play things for the US and it's allies.
They'd two guys on Sky News talking about it this morning, both interviewed by Kay Burley.
First was a UK minister who, without calling for resignations, supported the Israeli position
The second was a former consul in Jerusalem (a Brit) and he was excellent in full support of the UN position while condemning Hamas.
Kay Burley has quite the reputation, but she didn't ask the minister any decent questions.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 25, 2023, 08:04:00 AMThe UN Secretary General has grown a big, bold set of balls and come out and said out loud what we all know and think.
Will he last today in his job?
If he's forced to resign then you might as well bin the UN as an entity, they're only the play things for the US and it's allies.
Will be very interesting to see how this plays out, could the tide be slowly turning??
There's a passage in the news article referring to world leaders meeting yesterday debating whether a cease fire to allow humanitarian help would be a good idea... Jesus wept
Quote from: Hound on October 25, 2023, 08:10:15 AMSnapchap, I'm not sure if you're blind or a just lying if you are saying I have not responded to that question. But I'm certainly not going to answer the same question again and again and again!
I would be interested in reading that full NY Times article. Their headline suggests that there's still not enough evidence to determine either way but I can't read the full article.
Did you read the CNN article?
You didn't answer the specific point. You claimed you said Israel were anxious to "seem" open and transparent and that you stood by that. What you actually claimed is that they were anxious to "BE" open and transparent.
We now have multiple sources which have cast doubt on the veracity of the evidence they used in the press conference. So it's a fairly simple question: do you still believe Israel were being open and transparent in that press conference?
As for the article, it's on their site. It doesn't make any claims as to who carried out the attack. The central subject of the piece is that Israels video evidence (used in the press conference where you claimed they were being open and transparent) does, in their eyes, not show what Israel tried to claim it showed.
Snap, your are a dog with a bone, I've yet to see definitive evidence, neither have you, so that's cleared up that.
There is absolutely no questioning that the IDF have lied about most of their actions
So lets move on and if the Hound hasn't satisfied your needs, then let it go
2360 Palestinian kids murdered in less than a fortnight
https://www.msn.com/de-ch/nachrichten/international/unicef-2360-kinder-im-gazastreifen-bei-israels-angriffen-get%C3%B6tet/
MR. Here are some videos of Israel's recent work
https://twitter.com/normfinkelstein/status/1712812455439548895
White phosphorous burns at 800 degrees celsius and sticks to skin
https://twitter.com/umyaznemo/status/1712871699689914417
If you were in Béal Feirste in the 70s and someone was found with their throat cut but there was no evidence of who did it would you have said it couldn't be the Shankhill Butchersafter 3 such murders linked to them? Just wondering
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 25, 2023, 09:11:34 AMSnap, your are a dog with a bone, I've yet to see definitive evidence, neither have you, so that's cleared up that.
There is absolutely no questioning that the IDF have lied about most of their actions
So lets move on and if the Hound hasn't satisfied your needs, then let it go
MR2, you're missing the point. You're saying there's "absolutely no questioning that the IDF have lied"...Well that's what I'd have thought too. Yet hound said the opposite. He said they were "being open and transparent" about the hospital attack. I'm simply trying to get a straight answer as to whether he still stands over that opinion in light of a sucession of experts claiming their evidence was misleading and/or totally fabricated.
So far all he has managed is to do is:
- Keep restating that nobody can provide definitive evidence for who did it (which is just a statement of the blindingly obvious and not what my point related to in the slightest). Indidentally, your post above begins with that same argument for some reason. Surely you aren't silly enough to miss my central point that badly? The entire debate was about whether Israel was being honest with people in it's response - not about whether definitive evidence exists.
- State that he stands over the idea that Isreal were trying to "seem" like they were being open and transparent (yet that is not what his initial claim was - he said they were trying to "be" open and transparent; not that they were trying to "seem" open and transparent)
It's a discussion forum. With respect, you're not a mod. I'm allowed to press a point with someone when they're desperately trying to avoid answering a very straight question.
Quote from: seafoid on October 25, 2023, 09:24:00 AM2360 Palestinian kids murdered in less than a fortnight
https://www.msn.com/de-ch/nachrichten/international/unicef-2360-kinder-im-gazastreifen-bei-israels-angriffen-get%C3%B6tet/
MR. Here are some videos of Israel's recent work
https://twitter.com/normfinkelstein/status/1712812455439548895
White phosphorous burns at 800 degrees celsius and sticks to skin
https://twitter.com/umyaznemo/status/1712871699689914417
If you were in Béal Feirste in the 70s and someone was found with their throat cut but there was no evidence of who did it would you have said it couldn't be the Shankhill Butchersafter 3 such murders linked to them? Just wondering
You are barking up the wrong tree here Seafoid, I wouldn't trust the Israeli government or officials as for as I could throw them.
As for throats being cut by the Shankill butchers, my sons great grandfather was one such victim, so not liking your post on that. But hey ho I wouldn't be bringing up atrocities in the north and disinformation, it wasn't called the 'Dirty War' for nothing and plenty of deaths in the 70's that were horrific that happened on both sides. Could list them if you want..
You are or were well insulated from the going on's up here, getting battered by the Atlantic wind would be the height of it for you
Quote from: burdizzo on October 24, 2023, 06:58:30 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2023, 03:19:25 PMDies Netanyahu and his gang of thugs realise that they have created maybe 50,000 new guerrillas to fight them in the future by their indiscriminate bombing and killing of Civilians including 2,000 children
Arrogant use of brute force seldom pays off.
Dunno. Look at Hiroshima. Look at Nagasaki. Even Dresden. If anything, the Israelis aren't going hard enough. I remember our old history teacher saying there's no use in being half-assed about using force: either don't use it at all, or use it so brutally that the population will be cowed into submission. Thus, if there's a sniper in a block of flats, destroy the whole block of flats. Make the populace see there's no profit in harbouring insurgents. He was talking about putting down unrest in the Eastern Bloc countries (and he was a communist), but the same could apply here. Mind you, the Israelis are possibly getting there in the brutality stakes.
Hiroshima is not a valid comparison. That was during a world war. Gaza versus Israel is more like the Croppies versus the english in 1798 or 1916 at the GPO.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 24, 2023, 06:58:30 PMQuote from: Rossfan on October 24, 2023, 03:19:25 PMDies Netanyahu and his gang of thugs realise that they have created maybe 50,000 new guerrillas to fight them in the future by their indiscriminate bombing and killing of Civilians including 2,000 children
Arrogant use of brute force seldom pays off.
Dunno. Look at Hiroshima. Look at Nagasaki. Even Dresden. If anything, the Israelis aren't going hard enough. I remember our old history teacher saying there's no use in being half-assed about using force: either don't use it at all, or use it so brutally that the population will be cowed into submission. Thus, if there's a sniper in a block of flats, destroy the whole block of flats. Make the populace see there's no profit in harbouring insurgents. He was talking about putting down unrest in the Eastern Bloc countries (and he was a communist), but the same could apply here. Mind you, the Israelis are possibly getting there in the brutality stakes.
Was your old History teacher educated in Sandhurst?
Quote from: johnnycool on October 25, 2023, 08:04:00 AMThe UN Secretary General has grown a big, bold set of balls and come out and said out loud what we all know and think.
Will he last today in his job?
If he's forced to resign then you might as well bin the UN as an entity, they're only the play things for the US and it's allies.
I don't see anything controversial in his statement. He is rightly condemning both the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response.
Unlike many, he is not justifying either.
The grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the horrific attacks by Hamas.
Those horrendous attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.
We're the Palestinians ever offered their own state by the Israelis?
Quote from: whitey on October 25, 2023, 01:13:57 PMWe're the Palestinians ever offered their own state by the Israelis?
The 1947 UN Partition plan for Palestine proposed an Arab State and a Jewish state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg)
There were several, ever decreasing offers over the years. All were rejected by the Palestinians.
Depending on your point of view
A. It is like Russia offering Ukraine some of the Donbass to end the war.
B. It is like Unionists turning down Sunningdale and the Anglo-Irish agreement. They keep ending up with less than previously offered.
Quote from: dec on October 25, 2023, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: whitey on October 25, 2023, 01:13:57 PMWe're the Palestinians ever offered their own state by the Israelis?
The 1947 UN Partition plan for Palestine proposed an Arab State and a Jewish state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg)
The UN Partition Plan took half of Palestine to give to the Zionists.
there was a civil war in Ireland over letting the Brits keep 6 counties. Imagine the uproar if the UN handed over 16.
If the Brits were to "offer" the Americans a country that meant ceding half of their territory to immigrants, I'm quite sure they would reject it.
Quote from: seafoid on October 25, 2023, 04:51:09 PMthere was a civil war in Ireland over letting the Brits keep 6 counties. Imagine the uproar if the UN handed over 16.
Eh? When was this?!!
Quote from: LeoMc on October 25, 2023, 12:05:33 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 25, 2023, 08:04:00 AMThe UN Secretary General has grown a big, bold set of balls and come out and said out loud what we all know and think.
Will he last today in his job?
If he's forced to resign then you might as well bin the UN as an entity, they're only the play things for the US and it's allies.
I don't see anything controversial in his statement. He is rightly condemning both the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response.
Unlike many, he is not justifying either.
The grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the horrific attacks by Hamas.
Those horrendous attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.
He's 100% right. The MSM coverage of this is that it only started a few weeks ago.
Context is that this has all come from Israel's brutal occuptation over 50 years - land grabbing, murder and state terrorism etc.
The events of the past few weeks can't be looked at in isolation.
The people are well ahead of the politicians on this. Not for the first time.
Quote from: marty34 on October 25, 2023, 08:06:14 PMQuote from: LeoMc on October 25, 2023, 12:05:33 PMQuote from: johnnycool on October 25, 2023, 08:04:00 AMThe UN Secretary General has grown a big, bold set of balls and come out and said out loud what we all know and think.
Will he last today in his job?
If he's forced to resign then you might as well bin the UN as an entity, they're only the play things for the US and it's allies.
I don't see anything controversial in his statement. He is rightly condemning both the Hamas attacks and the Israeli response.
Unlike many, he is not justifying either.
The grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the horrific attacks by Hamas.
Those horrendous attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.
He's 100% right. The MSM coverage of this is that it only started a few weeks ago.
Context is that this has all come from Israel's brutal occuptation over 50 years - land grabbing, murder and state terrorism etc.
The events of the past few weeks can't be looked at in isolation.
The people are well ahead of the politicians on this. Not for the first time.
Yes, but as far as I recall , 1 million people protested in London against the Iraq invasion . And hundreds of thousands did so in other cities as well. The Brits (and others) still invaded Iraq.
Quote from: seafoid on October 25, 2023, 04:51:09 PMQuote from: dec on October 25, 2023, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: whitey on October 25, 2023, 01:13:57 PMWe're the Palestinians ever offered their own state by the Israelis?
The 1947 UN Partition plan for Palestine proposed an Arab State and a Jewish state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg)
The UN Partition Plan took half of Palestine to give to the Zionists.
there was a civil war in Ireland over letting the Brits keep 6 counties. Imagine the uproar if the UN handed over 16.
If they'd tried to accommodate an Israeli state after WW1 when the UK & France were redrawing country boundaries all over the Middle East it might have had a better chance, but the political will wasn't there, it took the Holocaust to create the political will.
Quote from: bennydorano on October 25, 2023, 09:12:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 25, 2023, 04:51:09 PMQuote from: dec on October 25, 2023, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: whitey on October 25, 2023, 01:13:57 PMWe're the Palestinians ever offered their own state by the Israelis?
The 1947 UN Partition plan for Palestine proposed an Arab State and a Jewish state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg)
The UN Partition Plan took half of Palestine to give to the Zionists.
there was a civil war in Ireland over letting the Brits keep 6 counties. Imagine the uproar if the UN handed over 16.
If they'd tried to accommodate an Israeli state after WW1 when the UK & France were redrawing country boundaries all over the Middle East it might have had a better chance, but the political will wasn't there, it took the Holocaust to create the political will.
I can't help thinking the new Jewish state of israel was left alone and given a free reign because of the halocaust .
In a similar way, the unionist government was given free reign to do what it liked to Catholics after partition
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 25, 2023, 10:19:08 PMQuote from: bennydorano on October 25, 2023, 09:12:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 25, 2023, 04:51:09 PMQuote from: dec on October 25, 2023, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: whitey on October 25, 2023, 01:13:57 PMWe're the Palestinians ever offered their own state by the Israelis?
The 1947 UN Partition plan for Palestine proposed an Arab State and a Jewish state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg)
The UN Partition Plan took half of Palestine to give to the Zionists.
there was a civil war in Ireland over letting the Brits keep 6 counties. Imagine the uproar if the UN handed over 16.
If they'd tried to accommodate an Israeli state after WW1 when the UK & France were redrawing country boundaries all over the Middle East it might have had a better chance, but the political will wasn't there, it took the Holocaust to create the political will.
I can't help thinking the new Jewish state of israel was left alone and given a free reign because of the halocaust .
In a similar way, the unionist government was given free reign to do what it liked to Catholics after partition
Pretty much. Now look at Germany going out of their way to lick the Israelis boots.
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 25, 2023, 10:19:08 PMQuote from: bennydorano on October 25, 2023, 09:12:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 25, 2023, 04:51:09 PMQuote from: dec on October 25, 2023, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: whitey on October 25, 2023, 01:13:57 PMWe're the Palestinians ever offered their own state by the Israelis?
The 1947 UN Partition plan for Palestine proposed an Arab State and a Jewish state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg)
The UN Partition Plan took half of Palestine to give to the Zionists.
there was a civil war in Ireland over letting the Brits keep 6 counties. Imagine the uproar if the UN handed over 16.
If they'd tried to accommodate an Israeli state after WW1 when the UK & France were redrawing country boundaries all over the Middle East it might have had a better chance, but the political will wasn't there, it took the Holocaust to create the political will.
I can't help thinking the new Jewish state of israel was left alone and given a free reign because of the halocaust .
In a similar way, the unionist government was given free reign to do what it liked to Catholics after partition
From the perspective of 2023 it looks like the Arabs turned down a very good deal, the Arab state proposed is much larger than anything they are likely to get now.
But from the perspective of 1947 the Arabs made up about 2/3 of the population and got about 1/3 of the land.
Just saw a post saying that Isreal targeted the home of the lead Al-Jazeera reporter in Gaza killing his wife, son and daughter.
He reported on an explosion not knowing it was his family too :(
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 26, 2023, 10:48:53 AMHe reported on an explosion not knowing it was his family too :(
Jesus Christ. Poor man.
Caught a bit of that on Al Jazeera yesterday and think they said that the journalists were being asked to leave buildings where people were sheltering as they knew the Israelis were targetting Al Jazeera journalists and therefore putting others at risk.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 26, 2023, 11:19:10 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 26, 2023, 10:48:53 AMHe reported on an explosion not knowing it was his family too :(
Jesus Christ. Poor man.
They targeted the 'safe zones' that people had moved too according to the Guardian... Pure evil
Been doing that since day one and then looking for the likes of the head of the UN to quit if there's any scrutiny :(
Quote from: dec on October 25, 2023, 10:33:37 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on October 25, 2023, 10:19:08 PMQuote from: bennydorano on October 25, 2023, 09:12:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 25, 2023, 04:51:09 PMQuote from: dec on October 25, 2023, 01:28:43 PMQuote from: whitey on October 25, 2023, 01:13:57 PMWe're the Palestinians ever offered their own state by the Israelis?
The 1947 UN Partition plan for Palestine proposed an Arab State and a Jewish state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg)
The UN Partition Plan took half of Palestine to give to the Zionists.
there was a civil war in Ireland over letting the Brits keep 6 counties. Imagine the uproar if the UN handed over 16.
If they'd tried to accommodate an Israeli state after WW1 when the UK & France were redrawing country boundaries all over the Middle East it might have had a better chance, but the political will wasn't there, it took the Holocaust to create the political will.
I can't help thinking the new Jewish state of israel was left alone and given a free reign because of the halocaust .
In a similar way, the unionist government was given free reign to do what it liked to Catholics after partition
From the perspective of 2023 it looks like the Arabs turned down a very good deal, the Arab state proposed is much larger than anything they are likely to get now.
But from the perspective of 1947 the Arabs made up about 2/3 of the population and got about 1/3 of the land.
Yep. Was it not the following day after the British pulled out that the surrounding Arab nations invaded? 3/4 million Palestinians were then displaced in the war and neither or their descendants have ever returned to their lands or homes and many of them are still in refugee facilities. Like you, I get their opposition at the time, but that was the high point for what was going to be available to them. With this folk memory, would any Gazan Palestinian who still wants to live out their life there dare to leave?
will the flag wavers be boycotting mcdonalds
Quote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 12:25:19 PMwill the flag wavers be boycotting mcdonalds
Are they using Israeli spuds?
Quote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 12:25:19 PMwill the flag wavers be boycotting mcdonalds
Any excuse to avoid that dump lol. What have they done?
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 26, 2023, 01:30:19 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 12:25:19 PMwill the flag wavers be boycotting mcdonalds
Any excuse to avoid that dump lol. What have they done?
Giving free food to the Israeli Army.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 26, 2023, 01:43:54 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on October 26, 2023, 01:30:19 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 12:25:19 PMwill the flag wavers be boycotting mcdonalds
Any excuse to avoid that dump lol. What have they done?
Giving free food to the Israeli Army.
That shite will kill them quicker than Hamas!
You could not make this up
Israel collecting digital evidence for war crimes case against Hamas
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2023-10-26/ty-article/.premium/israel-collecting-digital-evidence-for-war-crimes-case-against-hamas
Quote from: J70 on October 26, 2023, 12:22:37 PMYep. Was it not the following day after the British pulled out that the surrounding Arab nations invaded? 3/4 million Palestinians were then displaced in the war and neither or their descendants have ever returned to their lands or homes and many of them are still in refugee facilities. Like you, I get their opposition at the time, but that was the high point for what was going to be available to them. With this folk memory, would any Gazan Palestinian who still wants to live out their life there dare to leave?
How many Germans fled from their lands after the second world war? I know they lost and all, but you don't hear them going on about it. Why is their cause so different to the Palestinians'?
Quote from: burdizzo on October 26, 2023, 05:16:57 PMQuote from: J70 on October 26, 2023, 12:22:37 PMYep. Was it not the following day after the British pulled out that the surrounding Arab nations invaded? 3/4 million Palestinians were then displaced in the war and neither or their descendants have ever returned to their lands or homes and many of them are still in refugee facilities. Like you, I get their opposition at the time, but that was the high point for what was going to be available to them. With this folk memory, would any Gazan Palestinian who still wants to live out their life there dare to leave?
How many Germans fled from their lands after the second world war? I know they lost and all, but you don't hear them going on about it. Why is their cause so different to the Palestinians'?
Apart from the circumstances in which they fled or were expelled from the territories that the Nazis had just ravaged and committed the worst war crimes in history?
Quote from: burdizzo on October 26, 2023, 05:16:57 PMQuote from: J70 on October 26, 2023, 12:22:37 PMYep. Was it not the following day after the British pulled out that the surrounding Arab nations invaded? 3/4 million Palestinians were then displaced in the war and neither or their descendants have ever returned to their lands or homes and many of them are still in refugee facilities. Like you, I get their opposition at the time, but that was the high point for what was going to be available to them. With this folk memory, would any Gazan Palestinian who still wants to live out their life there dare to leave?
How many Germans fled from their lands after the second world war? I know they lost and all, but you don't hear them going on about it. Why is their cause so different to the Palestinians'?
Germany had caused 3 wars by 1939 and was a warmongering state. The previous equivalent was Napoleon. In both cases an alliance of powers put smacht on them.
Israel is a settler colonial outpost which dispossessed Palestinians. If the German experience was universal why are there still GAA fans in the 6 counties ? It's because losing ownership does not mean exile.
Quote from: seafoid on October 26, 2023, 06:03:25 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 26, 2023, 05:16:57 PMQuote from: J70 on October 26, 2023, 12:22:37 PMYep. Was it not the following day after the British pulled out that the surrounding Arab nations invaded? 3/4 million Palestinians were then displaced in the war and neither or their descendants have ever returned to their lands or homes and many of them are still in refugee facilities. Like you, I get their opposition at the time, but that was the high point for what was going to be available to them. With this folk memory, would any Gazan Palestinian who still wants to live out their life there dare to leave?
How many Germans fled from their lands after the second world war? I know they lost and all, but you don't hear them going on about it. Why is their cause so different to the Palestinians'?
Germany had caused 3 wars by 1939 and was a warmongering state. The previous equivalent was Napoleon. In both cases an alliance of powers put smacht on them.
Israel is a settler colonial outpost which dispossessed Palestinians. If the German experience was universal why are there still GAA fans in the 6 counties ? It's because losing ownership does not mean exile.
Presumably burdizzo would rid the six counties of GAA fans.
As for Germans, perhaps they should have made East Prussia the homeland for European Jews?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2023, 06:53:06 PMPresumably burdizzo would rid the six counties of GAA fans.
As for Germans, perhaps they should have made East Prussia the homeland for European Jews?
Why would I do that?? Being a GAA fan myself?
No, Madagascar was the plan, and they should have stuck with it. They couldn't expand further than the bounds of the island or cause trouble. Mind you, they'd probably still cause trouble...
Quote from: burdizzo on October 26, 2023, 07:00:03 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2023, 06:53:06 PMPresumably burdizzo would rid the six counties of GAA fans.
As for Germans, perhaps they should have made East Prussia the homeland for European Jews?
Why would I do that?? Being a GAA fan myself?
No, Madagascar was the plan, and they should have stuck with it. They couldn't expand further than the bounds of the island or cause trouble. Mind you, they'd probably still cause trouble...
In 1950, the population of Madagascar was over 4 million. There's now 28 million. Over 80% are Christian.
They'd have treated local Madagascar folk like the Palestinians . Or probably worse
Quote from: burdizzo on October 26, 2023, 07:00:03 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2023, 06:53:06 PMPresumably burdizzo would rid the six counties of GAA fans.
As for Germans, perhaps they should have made East Prussia the homeland for European Jews?
Why would I do that?? Being a GAA fan myself?
No, Madagascar was the plan, and they should have stuck with it. They couldn't expand further than the bounds of the island or cause trouble. Mind you, they'd probably still cause trouble...
Are there no people in Madagascar?
I think Austin Powers has answered that. It was comparatively sparsely populated in the 1940s, and obviously a bit bigger.
A senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 26, 2023, 05:16:57 PMQuote from: J70 on October 26, 2023, 12:22:37 PMYep. Was it not the following day after the British pulled out that the surrounding Arab nations invaded? 3/4 million Palestinians were then displaced in the war and neither or their descendants have ever returned to their lands or homes and many of them are still in refugee facilities. Like you, I get their opposition at the time, but that was the high point for what was going to be available to them. With this folk memory, would any Gazan Palestinian who still wants to live out their life there dare to leave?
How many Germans fled from their lands after the second world war? I know they lost and all, but you don't hear them going on about it. Why is their cause so different to the Palestinians'?
Jesus.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 26, 2023, 07:00:03 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 26, 2023, 06:53:06 PMPresumably burdizzo would rid the six counties of GAA fans.
As for Germans, perhaps they should have made East Prussia the homeland for European Jews?
Outer Mongolia or deepest Siberia...
Why would I do that?? Being a GAA fan myself?
No, Madagascar was the plan, and they should have stuck with it. They couldn't expand further than the bounds of the island or cause trouble. Mind you, they'd probably still cause trouble...
This is very ambitious. Aligning the Kop with the Sun
https://twitter.com/hpx_12/status/1717647794905747764
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 07:48:12 AMThis is very ambitious. Aligning the Kop cops with the Sun
https://twitter.com/hpx_12/status/1717647794905747764
Quote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
There's being biased towards the Palestinians
and then there's being batshit crazy
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
that is not what he posted. There are multiple sources that Israeli killed their own at the kibbutzs. these sources are Israeli sources. We dont know how many. About 50 hostages have been killed in the indiscriminate bombing by Israel, they have the Hannibal directive.
Internet and mobile cut off in Gaza, Gaza cut off... more massacres incoming as US,UK and EU waffle on about pauses!!
continuing heavy bombardment already
"Free" World leaders have Blood of thousands of children on their hands as they let their delinquent rogue State murder with impunity and support them 100%.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 27, 2023, 05:08:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. .
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
that is not what he posted. There are multiple sources that Israeli killed their own at the kibbutzs. these sources are Israeli sources. We dont know how many. About 50 hostages have been killed in the indiscriminate bombing by Israel, they have the Hannibal directive.
He said Hamas didn't kill 1400. Full stop!
They probably killed more or less, who knows. But being led to believe that another 50 hostages are dead, again who knows how they died, bombs, murdered, I do know they'd still be alive if they'd been left alone.
Did Hamas stay in the Kibbutz with the hostages? Or did they taken them to Gaza?
Then says Israel murdered its own people, as they rather kill them than take them alive.. Stay with me
Then mentioned the music festival, saying, We don't know about the festival either!
If you are struggling to understand what he's implying here then go back to school
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2023, 06:01:19 PM"Free" World leaders have Blood of thousands of children on their hands as they let their delinquent rogue State murder with impunity and support them 100%.
The same world leaders have millions of deaths on their hands over many years, for no reasons. Weapons of Mass destruction!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 06:15:13 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?
I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!
Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 06:10:33 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 27, 2023, 05:08:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. .
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
that is not what he posted. There are multiple sources that Israeli killed their own at the kibbutzs. these sources are Israeli sources. We dont know how many. About 50 hostages have been killed in the indiscriminate bombing by Israel, they have the Hannibal directive.
He said Hamas didn't kill 1400. Full stop!
They probably killed more or less, who knows. But being led to believe that another 50 hostages are dead, again who knows how they died, bombs, murdered, I do know they'd still be alive if they'd been left alone.
Did Hamas stay in the Kibbutz with the hostages? Or did they taken them to Gaza?
Then says Israel murdered its own people, as they rather kill them than take them alive.. Stay with me
Then mentioned the music festival, saying, We don't know about the festival either!
If you are struggling to understand what he's implying here then go back to school
why not read what he wrote instead of trying to imply something.
Israeli sources have been clear they fired tanks shells into the kibbutz, fired on their own army bases, killed their own in crossfire. They killed their own previously and even have the hannibal directive...who knows how more they killed.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 27, 2023, 05:08:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
that is not what he posted. There are multiple sources that Israeli killed their own at the kibbutzs. these sources are Israeli sources. We dont know how many. About 50 hostages have been killed in the indiscriminate bombing by Israel, they have the Hannibal directive.
Its totally acceptable for some on this board to completely misrepresent, what another poster states.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 06:19:05 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 06:15:13 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?
I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!
Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies
Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel?
Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people.
Seafoid, take a break.
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 07:35:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 06:19:05 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 06:15:13 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?
I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!
Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies
Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel?
Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people.
Yes I can back up that you are full of crap, and have been steadily getting worse for a while now.
I know as much as you do about Israel Palestine and the Middle East.
Also I do know if you haven't an open mind you've a closed one. So, regardless of anyone's points you are closed to them.
But make no mistake, Israel is at fault for years of atrocities land grabbing and persecution. That doesn't mean you can make stuff up
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 07:52:24 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 07:35:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 06:19:05 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 06:15:13 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?
I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!
Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies
Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel?
Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people.
Yes I can back up that you are full of crap, and have been steadily getting worse for a while now.
I know as much as you do about Israel Palestine and the Middle East.
Also I do know if you haven't an open mind you've a closed one. So, regardless of anyone's points you are closed to them.
But make no mistake, Israel is at fault for years of atrocities land grabbing and persecution. That doesn't mean you can make stuff up
Israel killing some of their own people at the kibbutz has already been widely reported, it's hardly making stuff up.
It's just not stopping. When is anyone going to step in and put an end to this madness :(
Israel wants to wipe Gaza out.
They are using the recent attack as an excuse, while the rest of world watches on without care, to destroy Gaza.
As the UN lad say, it can't be taken in isolation. Palestine and it's people have suffered something shocking this past 50 years.
Quote from: SHEEDY on October 27, 2023, 09:40:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 07:52:24 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 07:35:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 06:19:05 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 06:15:13 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?
I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!
Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies
Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel?
Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people.
Yes I can back up that you are full of crap, and have been steadily getting worse for a while now.
I know as much as you do about Israel Palestine and the Middle East.
Also I do know if you haven't an open mind you've a closed one. So, regardless of anyone's points you are closed to them.
But make no mistake, Israel is at fault for years of atrocities land grabbing and persecution. That doesn't mean you can make stuff up
Israel killing some of their own people at the kibbutz has already been widely reported, it's hardly making stuff up.
He said Hamas
only killed 800... so the Israelis killed a further 600 people?
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2023, 09:50:35 PMIt's just not stopping. When is anyone going to step in and put an end to this madness :(
Biden is a moron and a coward. Look at the balls he made of Afghanistan and had no compunction in leaving them to it. Trump had a part to play but sleepy Joe let it happen. They keep saying Israel has a right to defend itself as if killing 10,000 people (minimum) is defending yourself. Israel are Israel and this is expected behaviour- I blame Biden for most of this.
Quote from: marty34 on October 27, 2023, 10:23:48 PMIsrael wants to wipe Gaza out.
Hamas - and pretty much the entire middle east - want to wipe Israel out. I suppose America is Israel's only guarantor, and the only reason Israel can exist at all. The Jews in America (and Europe) have a lot of money and influence. Sadly.
I don't begrudge the Jews their ethno-state. Why, though, do they begrudge it to anyone else?!
The power of religion. Or the danger of religion. Goes beyond money.
Quote from: ONeill on October 27, 2023, 10:55:30 PMThe power of religion. Or the danger of religion. Goes beyond money.
religion is not the main point, just as in the 6 counties.
Can these people be accused of being anti Semites
https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1718030480459620604
Watching the limited scenes from Gaza tonight is genuinely heartbreaking
They are basically carpet bombing the place
It looks like an artist's illustration of hell
To think there were stupid bastards arguing a few days ago that the Israelis didn't bomb the hospital
The hospital is nothing to tonight's barrage
Surely at some point in the next few hours some of the main western leaders HAS to shout stop
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 10:26:17 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on October 27, 2023, 09:40:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 07:52:24 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 07:35:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 06:19:05 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 06:15:13 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2023, 03:43:11 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 27, 2023, 02:39:25 PMQuote from: Eire90 on October 26, 2023, 08:50:59 PMA senior Hamas delegation has travelled to Moscow to meet Russian foreign ministry officials in the organisation's first high-profile international visit since it launched a raid in southern Israel on 7 October, killing an estimated 1,400 people and taking another 220 hostage.
They didn't kill 1400 people. The Israeli army blew up houses in kibbutz Be'eri where Hamas were holding hostages because they didn't want them to go to Gaza. Israel is seriously fucked up that it would murder its own people rather than have them taken alive. We don't know about the festival either.
So let me get this straight, Hamas just wanted hostages, didn't kill anyone and it was the Israeli's that killed those at the kibbutz and at the music festival?
It certainly was at the kibbutz . There is a thing called the Hannibal doctrine. Why don't you look into it ?
I'm surprised you have shoehorned in a junior c hurling into the post with a link to some shite!
Seafoid your posts are pointless at this stage as you've a serious amount of anger in them and plenty of discrepancies and conspiracies
Can you back that statement up? Do you know anything at all about Israel?
Were you following the Israeli death toll? I was. It started off at 100 and went up consistently in units of 100. Then it plateaued at 800 for a few days. Suddenly it was 1400. The difference was the kibbutz and maybe something else. Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz. Hamas did not kill 1400 people.
Yes I can back up that you are full of crap, and have been steadily getting worse for a while now.
I know as much as you do about Israel Palestine and the Middle East.
Also I do know if you haven't an open mind you've a closed one. So, regardless of anyone's points you are closed to them.
But make no mistake, Israel is at fault for years of atrocities land grabbing and persecution. That doesn't mean you can make stuff up
Israel killing some of their own people at the kibbutz has already been widely reported, it's hardly making stuff up.
He said Hamas only killed 800... so the Israelis killed a further 600 people?
I did not say that Hamas
only killed 800 people. That is a fabrication. It sounds like a porkie pie. I said that Hamas did not kill 1400 people. It's upthread. There is a big difference. There is no breakdown of the death toll between the Kibbutz and the rest. We do not know how many Israelis were killed by their own soldiers because it's a highly sensitive topic during a war but we do know that it happened. Perhaps it wasn't on UTV live. I'll see if I can have a word with Pamela Ballantyne.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
Israel's military received orders to shell Israeli homes and even their own bases as they were overwhelmed by Hamas militants on October 7. How many Israeli citizens said to have been "burned alive" were actually killed by friendly fire?
Several new testimonies by Israeli witnesses to the October 7 Hamas surprise attack on southern Israel adds to growing evidence that the Israeli military killed its own citizens as they fought to neutralize Palestinian gunmen.
Tuval Escapa, a member of the security team for Kibbutz Be'eri, set up a hotline to coordinate between kibbutz residents and the Israeli army. He told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that as desperation began to set in, "the commanders in the field made difficult decisions – including shelling houses on their occupants in order to eliminate the terrorists along with the hostages."
A separate report published in Haaretz noted that the Israeli military was "compelled to request an aerial strike" against its own facility inside the Erez Crossing to Gaza "in order to repulse the terrorists" who had seized control. That base was filled with Israeli Civil Administration officers and soldiers at the time.
These reports indicate that orders came down from the military's high command to attack homes and and other areas inside Israel, even at the cost of many Israeli lives.
An Israeli woman named Yasmin Porat confirmed in an interview with Israel Radio that the military "undoubtedly" killed numerous Israeli noncombatants during gun battles with Hamas militants on October 7. "They eliminated everyone, including the hostages," she stated, referring to Israeli special forces.
As David Sheen and Ali Abunimah reported in Electronic Intifada, Porat described "very, very heavy crossfire" and Israeli tank shelling, which led to many casualties among Israelis.
While being held by the Hamas gunmen, Porat recalled, "They did not abuse us. We were treated very humanely... No one treated us violently."
She added, "The objective was to kidnap us to Gaza, not to murder us."
According to Haaretz, the army was only able to restore control over Be'eri after admittedly "shelling" the homes of Israelis who had been taken captive. "The price was terrible: at least 112 Be'eri residents were killed," the paper chronicled. "Others were kidnapped. Yesterday, 11 days after the massacre, the bodies of a mother and her son were discovered in one of the destroyed houses. It is believed that more bodies are still lying in the rubble."
Much of the shelling in Be'eri was carried out by Israeli tank crews. As a reporter for the Israeli Foreign Ministry-sponsored outlet i24 noted during a visit to Be'eri, "small and quaint homes [were] bombarded or destroyed," and "well-maintained lawns [were] ripped up by the tracks of an armored vehicle, perhaps a tank."
Apache attack helicopters also figured heavily in the Israeli military's response on October 7. Pilots have told Israeli media they scrambled to the battlefield without any intelligence, unable to differentiate between Hamas fighters and Israeli noncombatants, and yet determined to "empty the belly" of their war machines. "I find myself in a dilemma as to what to shoot at, because there are so many of them," one Apache pilot commented.
Video filmed by uniformed Hamas gunmen makes it clear they intentionally shot many Israelis with Kalashnikov rifles on October 7. However, the Israeli government has not been content to rely on verified video evidence. Instead, it continues to push discredited claims of "beheaded babies" while distributing photographs of "bodies burned beyond recognition" to insist that militants sadistically immolated their captives, and even raped some before torching them alive.
The objective behind Tel Aviv's atrocity exhibition is clear: to paint Hamas as "worse than ISIS" while cultivating support for the Israeli army's ongoing bombardment of the Gaza Strip, which has left over 7000 dead, including at least 2500 children at the time of publication. While hundreds of wounded children in Gaza have been treated for what a surgeon described as "fourth degree burns" caused by novel weapons, the Western media's focus remains trained on Israeli citizens supposedly "burned alive" on October 7.
Yet the mounting evidence of friendly fire orders handed down by Israeli army commanders strongly suggests that at least some of the most jarring images of charred Israeli corpses, Israeli homes reduced to rubble and burned out hulks of vehicles presented to Western media were, in fact, the handiwork of tank crews and helicopter pilots blanketing Israeli territory with shells, cannon fire and Hellfire missiles.
Indeed, it appears that on October 7, Israel's military resorted to the same tactics it has employed against civilians in Gaza, driving up the death toll of its own citizens with the indiscriminate use of heavy weapons.
Quote from: Franko on October 28, 2023, 12:26:48 AMWatching the limited scenes from Gaza tonight is genuinely heartbreaking
They are basically carpet bombing the place
It looks like an artist's illustration of hell
To think there were stupid bastards arguing a few days ago that the Israelis didn't bomb the hospital
The hospital is nothing to tonight's barrage
Surely at some point in the next few hours some of the main western leaders HAS to shout stop
:( exactly what I am seeing too. It is absolutely brutal and how anyone can try and defend this is beyond me. There has to be intervention- has to be.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
"In an interview with Israel's Mako news outlet, one Apache pilot reflected on the tortuous dilemma of whether to shoot at people and cars returning to Gaza. He knew that many of those vehicles may have contained Israeli captives. But he chose to open fire anyway. "I choose targets like that," the pilot reflected, "where I tell myself that the chance that I am shooting here on hostages as well is low." However, he admitted that his judgment "was not 100%."
"I understand that we have to shoot here and quickly," the commander of the Apache unit, Lt. Col. E., told Mako in a separate report. "Shooting at people in our territory – this is something I never thought I would do."
Lt. Col. A., a reserve pilot in the same unit, described a fog of confusion: "I find myself in a dilemma as to what to shoot at, because there are so many of them."
A report on the Apache squadrons by the Israeli outlet Yedioth Aharanoth noted that "the pilots realized that there was tremendous difficulty in distinguishing within the occupied outposts and settlements who was a terrorist and who was a soldier or civilian... The rate of fire against the thousands of terrorists was tremendous at first, and only at a certain point did the pilots begin to slow down the attacks and carefully select the targets."Israeli security forces also opened fire on fleeing Israelis whom they mistook for Hamas gunmen. A resident of Ashkelon named Danielle Rachiel described nearly being killed after escaping from the Nova music festival when it was attacked by militants from Gaza. "As we reached the roundabout [at a kibbutz], we saw Israeli security forces!" Rachiel recalled. "We held our heads down [because] we automatically knew they'd be suspicious of us, in a small beat-up car... from the same direction the terrorists were coming from. Our forces began shooting at us!"
Basically Israeli blames Hamas for 1400 dead Israelis but the music festival and the kibbutz , both in Israel, were attaccked from the air by Israel.
Israel makes the INLA and the Shankill Butchers look like the Artane Boys Band.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2023, 12:17:03 AMQuote from: ONeill on October 27, 2023, 10:55:30 PMThe power of religion. Or the danger of religion. Goes beyond money.
religion is not the main point, just as in the 6 counties.
Can these people be accused of being anti Semites
https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1718030480459620604
Religion is a big marker of identity and ethnicity. I reckon, just as in the Six Counties, there'd have been nothing if everyone was the same (sect of the same) religion.
It's all very well for them ones to wring their hands in the safety of NYC. It's meaningless. They're not threatened by the terror of Hamas.
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 08:26:16 AMhttps://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
"In an interview with Israel's Mako news outlet, one Apache pilot reflected on the tortuous dilemma of whether to shoot at people and cars returning to Gaza. He knew that many of those vehicles may have contained Israeli captives. But he chose to open fire anyway. "I choose targets like that," the pilot reflected, "where I tell myself that the chance that I am shooting here on hostages as well is low." However, he admitted that his judgment "was not 100%."
"I understand that we have to shoot here and quickly," the commander of the Apache unit, Lt. Col. E., told Mako in a separate report. "Shooting at people in our territory – this is something I never thought I would do."
Lt. Col. A., a reserve pilot in the same unit, described a fog of confusion: "I find myself in a dilemma as to what to shoot at, because there are so many of them."
A report on the Apache squadrons by the Israeli outlet Yedioth Aharanoth noted that "the pilots realized that there was tremendous difficulty in distinguishing within the occupied outposts and settlements who was a terrorist and who was a soldier or civilian... The rate of fire against the thousands of terrorists was tremendous at first, and only at a certain point did the pilots begin to slow down the attacks and carefully select the targets."Israeli security forces also opened fire on fleeing Israelis whom they mistook for Hamas gunmen. A resident of Ashkelon named Danielle Rachiel described nearly being killed after escaping from the Nova music festival when it was attacked by militants from Gaza. "As we reached the roundabout [at a kibbutz], we saw Israeli security forces!" Rachiel recalled. "We held our heads down [because] we automatically knew they'd be suspicious of us, in a small beat-up car... from the same direction the terrorists were coming from. Our forces began shooting at us!"
Basically Israeli blames Hamas for 1400 dead Israelis but the music festival and the kibbutz , both in Israel, were attaccked from the air by Israel.
Israel makes the INLA and the Shankill Butchers look like the Artane Boys Band.
Could not agree more.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 27, 2023, 10:28:42 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2023, 09:50:35 PMIt's just not stopping. When is anyone going to step in and put an end to this madness :(
Biden is a moron and a coward. Look at the balls he made of Afghanistan and had no compunction in leaving them to it. Trump had a part to play but sleepy Joe let it happen. They keep saying Israel has a right to defend itself as if killing 10,000 people (minimum) is defending yourself. Israel are Israel and this is expected behaviour- I blame Biden for most of this.
It's a succession of British and American leaders going back years and years. Realistically unless Russia, China or some middle eastern state steps in then in 50 years there'll be no more Palestine. Its like an extended holocaust.
Seafoid you stopped at 800 and then implied 600 were killed by friendly fire..
No one is disputing friendly fire, it happens and has happened on both sides, but figures of 600?
That's a stretch, no?
Quote from: burdizzo on October 28, 2023, 08:27:51 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2023, 12:17:03 AMQuote from: ONeill on October 27, 2023, 10:55:30 PMThe power of religion. Or the danger of religion. Goes beyond money.
religion is not the main point, just as in the 6 counties.
Can these people be accused of being anti Semites
https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1718030480459620604
Religion is a big marker of identity and ethnicity. I reckon, just as in the Six Counties, there'd have been nothing if everyone was the same (sect of the same) religion.
It's all very well for them ones to wring their hands in the safety of NYC. It's meaningless. They're not threatened by the terror of Hamas.
Hamas don't bomb hospitals. They don't blow up Israeli apartment blocks. They don't burn people alive with white phosphorous. Israelis live meaningful lives. Palestinians do not. Croppies never did.
The Grayzone ffs! Are f**king serious?!
Gript. The Grayzone. What next for the luminaries of this board to show how much they're not hoodwinked by the corrupt, bought and paid for by (insert figure opposed to your politics here) mainstream media. f**king Infowars?!
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2023, 12:17:03 AMQuote from: ONeill on October 27, 2023, 10:55:30 PMThe power of religion. Or the danger of religion. Goes beyond money.
religion is not the main point, just as in the 6 counties.
Can these people be accused of being anti Semites
https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1718030480459620604
2 similarities with the North are
1. Settler colonialism. Ulster plantation started in 1607. Zionist plantation started 1881. The natives were forced off the good land and onto the bad land and the mountains. The North is about 2 cultures. 2 worlds colliding. So is Israel. Hegemony is never over. It is always disputed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfe_KYM3l94
2. The British empire.You can throw in Sri Lanka, Cyprus and Kashmir.
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 09:56:01 AMQuote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2023, 12:17:03 AMQuote from: ONeill on October 27, 2023, 10:55:30 PMThe power of religion. Or the danger of religion. Goes beyond money.
religion is not the main point, just as in the 6 counties.
Can these people be accused of being anti Semites
https://twitter.com/jvplive/status/1718030480459620604
2 similarities with the North are
1. Settler colonialism. Ulster plantation started in 1607. Zionist plantation started 1881. The natives were forced off the good land and onto the bad land and the mountains. The North is about 2 cultures. 2 worlds colliding. So is Israel. Hegemony is never over. It is always disputed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfe_KYM3l94
2. The British empire.You can throw in Sri Lanka, Cyprus and Kashmir.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 09:22:12 AMSeafoid you stopped at 800 and then implied 600 were killed by friendly fire..
No one is disputing friendly fire, it happens and has happened on both sides, but figures of 600?
That's a stretch, no?
I said they did not kill 1400 and we don't know about the last 600.
It is all under military censorship now anyway. It's wrong to say that they killed 1400 people.
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 09:43:47 AMThe Grayzone ffs! Are f**king serious?!
Gript. The Grayzone. What next for the luminaries of this board to show how much they're not hoodwinked by the corrupt, bought and paid for by (insert figure opposed to your politics here) mainstream media. f**king Infowars?!
So you ignore it because its the grayzone, you ignore the actual Israelis and what they actually said (not their govt)... there is quotes, there are interviews. but it's the grayzone and we are all idiots..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 09:22:12 AMSeafoid you stopped at 800 and then implied 600 were killed by friendly fire..
No one is disputing friendly fire, it happens and has happened on both sides, but figures of 600?
That's a stretch, no?
it is not friendly fire when it is a deliberate act.
The thing about the Israelis killed by their own side .Even if it was only 100 at the Kibbutz and the numbers were revised to 1300 killed by Hamas and 100 Israelis murdered by their own army for ideological reasons and this was all over UTV and BBC NI and Belfast Live and MUTV and The Sunday World and Sunday Life even loyalists and law and order types like Hound and Burdizzo would question their kneejerk support for Israel. This is why it is important and this why the data is not available.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 10:17:03 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 09:22:12 AMSeafoid you stopped at 800 and then implied 600 were killed by friendly fire..
No one is disputing friendly fire, it happens and has happened on both sides, but figures of 600?
That's a stretch, no?
it is not friendly fire when it is a deliberate act.
Israel presented the kibbutz dead as burnt alive by Hamas when Israel killed them with missiles and tank attacks.
That is not friendly fire. That is seriously fucked up. And if it gets out to the regular media it is very, very bad for Israel. I don't know of any OECD country that would do that. Even Johnny Adair would never have done that.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 28, 2023, 08:13:58 AMQuote from: Franko on October 28, 2023, 12:26:48 AMWatching the limited scenes from Gaza tonight is genuinely heartbreaking
They are basically carpet bombing the place
It looks like an artist's illustration of hell
To think there were stupid bastards arguing a few days ago that the Israelis didn't bomb the hospital
The hospital is nothing to tonight's barrage
Surely at some point in the next few hours some of the main western leaders HAS to shout stop
:( exactly what I am seeing too. It is absolutely brutal and how anyone can try and defend this is beyond me. There has to be intervention- has to be.
You'd think Tommy... This is now surreal viewing. Germany saying no to the 'Humanitarian pause' as the word pause sounded too permanent!
Beyond words
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 10:00:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 09:22:12 AMSeafoid you stopped at 800 and then implied 600 were killed by friendly fire..
No one is disputing friendly fire, it happens and has happened on both sides, but figures of 600?
That's a stretch, no?
I said they did not kill 1400 and we don't know about the last 600.
It is all under military censorship now anyway. It's wrong to say that they killed 1400 people.
It's also wrong to assume that the Israelis killed 600 of their own..
This war, wouldn't call it a war now, it's madness but Israel won't care
The area is fucked, watched a documentary recently on Netflix, Of fathers and sons, just be thankful you live were you live and your kids can grow up in a safe environment
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 12:11:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 10:00:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 09:22:12 AMSeafoid you stopped at 800 and then implied 600 were killed by friendly fire..
No one is disputing friendly fire, it happens and has happened on both sides, but figures of 600?
That's a stretch, no?
I said they did not kill 1400 and we don't know about the last 600.
It is all under military censorship now anyway. It's wrong to say that they killed 1400 people.
It's also wrong to assume that the Israelis killed 600 of their own..
This war, wouldn't call it a war now, it's madness but Israel won't care
The area is fucked, watched a documentary recently on Netflix, Of fathers and sons, just be thankful you live were you live and your kids can grow up in a safe environment
Indeed, but you'd like to think if you were being oppressed in the way the Palestinian people have that the world's super powers would help, and not only endorse the oppressor but fund the bastards to the hilt.
Some of the stuff posted on this thread is embarrassing. I doubt any person posting it could stand in a room of people with slightly differing moderate views and justify any of it - without being laughed out of the room.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2023, 01:21:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 12:11:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 10:00:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 09:22:12 AMSeafoid you stopped at 800 and then implied 600 were killed by friendly fire..
No one is disputing friendly fire, it happens and has happened on both sides, but figures of 600?
That's a stretch, no?
I said they did not kill 1400 and we don't know about the last 600.
It is all under military censorship now anyway. It's wrong to say that they killed 1400 people.
It's also wrong to assume that the Israelis killed 600 of their own..
This war, wouldn't call it a war now, it's madness but Israel won't care
The area is fucked, watched a documentary recently on Netflix, Of fathers and sons, just be thankful you live were you live and your kids can grow up in a safe environment
Indeed, but you'd like to think if you were being oppressed in the way the Palestinian people have that the world's super powers would help, and not only endorse the oppressor but fund the bastards to the hilt.
Britain America and the south turned a blind eye to here for many years, nothing surprises me.
Of course the scale of destruction murder and atrocities are poles apart, but governments suit themselves and whatever policies that influence their voters.
Hopefully the rallies all over the uk and even here in Belfast again will sway those in power to at least review their stance
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 01:42:31 PMQuote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2023, 01:21:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 12:11:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 10:00:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 09:22:12 AMSeafoid you stopped at 800 and then implied 600 were killed by friendly fire..
No one is disputing friendly fire, it happens and has happened on both sides, but figures of 600?
That's a stretch, no?
I said they did not kill 1400 and we don't know about the last 600.
It is all under military censorship now anyway. It's wrong to say that they killed 1400 people.
It's also wrong to assume that the Israelis killed 600 of their own..
This war, wouldn't call it a war now, it's madness but Israel won't care
The area is fucked, watched a documentary recently on Netflix, Of fathers and sons, just be thankful you live were you live and your kids can grow up in a safe environment
Indeed, but you'd like to think if you were being oppressed in the way the Palestinian people have that the world's super powers would help, and not only endorse the oppressor but fund the bastards to the hilt.
Britain America and the south turned a blind eye to here for many years, nothing surprises me.
Of course the scale of destruction murder and atrocities are poles apart, but governments suit themselves and whatever policies that influence their voters.
Hopefully the rallies all over the uk and even here in Belfast again will sway those in power to at least review their stance
Only the lobbyists who are lining their pockets will have any sway on these murderous hoors.
Democracy is only a smoke screen in the UK and the US.
Corbyn was proof of that.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 10:02:42 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 09:43:47 AMThe Grayzone ffs! Are f**king serious?!
Gript. The Grayzone. What next for the luminaries of this board to show how much they're not hoodwinked by the corrupt, bought and paid for by (insert figure opposed to your politics here) mainstream media. f**king Infowars?!
So you ignore it because its the grayzone, you ignore the actual Israelis and what they actually said (not their govt)... there is quotes, there are interviews. but it's the grayzone and we are all idiots..
Yes, there are quotes from colonels E and A. Forgive me for not taking them at face value. Have a word with yourself ffs.
Quote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2023, 01:21:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 12:11:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 10:00:47 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 09:22:12 AMSeafoid you stopped at 800 and then implied 600 were killed by friendly fire..
No one is disputing friendly fire, it happens and has happened on both sides, but figures of 600?
That's a stretch, no?
I said they did not kill 1400 and we don't know about the last 600.
It is all under military censorship now anyway. It's wrong to say that they killed 1400 people.
It's also wrong to assume that the Israelis killed 600 of their own..
This war, wouldn't call it a war now, it's madness but Israel won't care
The area is fucked, watched a documentary recently on Netflix, Of fathers and sons, just be thankful you live were you live and your kids can grow up in a safe environment
Indeed, but you'd like to think if you were being oppressed in the way the Palestinian people have that the world's super powers would help, and not only endorse the oppressor but fund the bastards to the hilt.
The Stop the war coalition in 2003 was very strong but nothing stopped the war. Only some sort of revulsion that turns public opinion and blindsides media and politicians can drive a ceasefire. Ireland is a real outlier. The UK, Germany, The US, Italy , France are all fully behind Israel. History really matters at times like now. Even in the North, Unionists are more likely to support Israel while Nationalists are more likely to support Palestinians.
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 02:35:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 10:02:42 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 09:43:47 AMThe Grayzone ffs! Are f**king serious?!
Gript. The Grayzone. What next for the luminaries of this board to show how much they're not hoodwinked by the corrupt, bought and paid for by (insert figure opposed to your politics here) mainstream media. f**king Infowars?!
So you ignore it because its the grayzone, you ignore the actual Israelis and what they actually said (not their govt)... there is quotes, there are interviews. but it's the grayzone and we are all idiots..
Yes, there are quotes from colonels E and A. Forgive me for not taking them at face value. Have a word with yourself ffs.
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 02:35:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 10:02:42 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 09:43:47 AMThe Grayzone ffs! Are f**king serious?!
Gript. The Grayzone. What next for the luminaries of this board to show how much they're not hoodwinked by the corrupt, bought and paid for by (insert figure opposed to your politics here) mainstream media. f**king Infowars?!
So you ignore it because its the grayzone, you ignore the actual Israelis and what they actually said (not their govt)... there is quotes, there are interviews. but it's the grayzone and we are all idiots..
Yes, there are quotes from colonels E and A. Forgive me for not taking them at face value. Have a word with yourself ffs.
Yasmin Porat -Kibbutz Be'eri resident - look what she said.
Commander of the Gaza Division, Brig. Gen. Avi Rosenfeld quoted in haaretz.
there are other reports In. Haaretz and other Israeli media the that refer to tank shelling etc. from different Israeli sources. why would Israeli media using Israeli sources lie about bombing and killing their own people.
I am not the one defending Israel as its commits a genocide so I am not the one that needing a word.
Did people think joe biden was some friend of the far left just because he was trumps opponent in 2020
No. Literally nobody thought that.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 02:35:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 10:02:42 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 09:43:47 AMThe Grayzone ffs! Are f**king serious?!
Gript. The Grayzone. What next for the luminaries of this board to show how much they're not hoodwinked by the corrupt, bought and paid for by (insert figure opposed to your politics here) mainstream media. f**king Infowars?!
So you ignore it because its the grayzone, you ignore the actual Israelis and what they actually said (not their govt)... there is quotes, there are interviews. but it's the grayzone and we are all idiots..
Yes, there are quotes from colonels E and A. Forgive me for not taking them at face value. Have a word with yourself ffs.
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 02:35:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 10:02:42 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 09:43:47 AMThe Grayzone ffs! Are f**king serious?!
Gript. The Grayzone. What next for the luminaries of this board to show how much they're not hoodwinked by the corrupt, bought and paid for by (insert figure opposed to your politics here) mainstream media. f**king Infowars?!
So you ignore it because its the grayzone, you ignore the actual Israelis and what they actually said (not their govt)... there is quotes, there are interviews. but it's the grayzone and we are all idiots..
Yes, there are quotes from colonels E and A. Forgive me for not taking them at face value. Have a word with yourself ffs.
Yasmin Porat -Kibbutz Be'eri resident - look what she said.
Commander of the Gaza Division, Brig. Gen. Avi Rosenfeld quoted in haaretz.
there are other reports In. Haaretz and other Israeli media the that refer to tank shelling etc. from different Israeli sources. why would Israeli media using Israeli sources lie about bombing and killing their own people.
I am not the one defending Israel as its commits a genocide so I am not the one that needing a word.
Go on, tell me what Yasmin Porat said. You know there's an actual interview with her? It's longer than a tiktok video, though not by much, so I doubt whether you'll be able to pay attention to actually take on board what she says.
Same for Rosenfeld, why don't you feel free to post the slightest thing you think corroborates what you and your mate Goebbels up above are trying to argue here.
As for "defending Israel as it commits a genocide" a) nowhere have I done anything of the sort but b) I'm not fully sure you can actually read so I should probably cut you some slack.
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 03:49:11 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 03:19:43 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 02:35:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 10:02:42 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 09:43:47 AMThe Grayzone ffs! Are f**king serious?!
Gript. The Grayzone. What next for the luminaries of this board to show how much they're not hoodwinked by the corrupt, bought and paid for by (insert figure opposed to your politics here) mainstream media. f**king Infowars?!
So you ignore it because its the grayzone, you ignore the actual Israelis and what they actually said (not their govt)... there is quotes, there are interviews. but it's the grayzone and we are all idiots..
Yes, there are quotes from colonels E and A. Forgive me for not taking them at face value. Have a word with yourself ffs.
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 02:35:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 10:02:42 AMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 09:43:47 AMThe Grayzone ffs! Are f**king serious?!
Gript. The Grayzone. What next for the luminaries of this board to show how much they're not hoodwinked by the corrupt, bought and paid for by (insert figure opposed to your politics here) mainstream media. f**king Infowars?!
So you ignore it because its the grayzone, you ignore the actual Israelis and what they actually said (not their govt)... there is quotes, there are interviews. but it's the grayzone and we are all idiots..
Yes, there are quotes from colonels E and A. Forgive me for not taking them at face value. Have a word with yourself ffs.
Yasmin Porat -Kibbutz Be'eri resident - look what she said.
Commander of the Gaza Division, Brig. Gen. Avi Rosenfeld quoted in haaretz.
there are other reports In. Haaretz and other Israeli media the that refer to tank shelling etc. from different Israeli sources. why would Israeli media using Israeli sources lie about bombing and killing their own people.
I am not the one defending Israel as its commits a genocide so I am not the one that needing a word.
Go on, tell me what Yasmin Porat said. You know there's an actual interview with her? It's longer than a tiktok video, though not by much, so I doubt whether you'll be able to pay attention to actually take on board what she says.
Same for Rosenfeld, why don't you feel free to post the slightest thing you think corroborates what you and your mate Goebbels up above are trying to argue here.
As for "defending Israel as it commits a genocide" a) nowhere have I done anything of the sort but b) I'm not fully sure you can actually read so I should probably cut you some slack.
your silence and attempted distraction is support you ignoramus. Your have more in common with goebbels than you think..
as you said there is an interview, listen to it, these are Israeli sources reporting to Israeli media and you are off on some conspiracy shite about mainstream media.. and it's lies... despite there being a history of Israel killing their own, the hannibal directive.
sure why not throw out a few insults when your arguments are useless.
Lmao, the absolute state of that. My "silence"?! What the f**k are you talking about?
Do you not understand that you lose all credibility and undermine your own position when spouting utter garbage? You think posting/supporting baseless innuendo (at best) such as "we don't really know about the music festival" helps the Palestinian cause?!
You've already acknowledged that you can do the square root of f**k all other than say "dammi falastini" to whoever will listen, so where on earth do you get your sense of moral superiority from?!
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 04:07:33 PMLmao, the absolute state of that. My "silence"?! What the f**k are you talking about?
Do you not understand that you lose all credibility and undermine your own position when spouting utter garbage? You think posting/supporting baseless innuendo (at best) such as "we don't really know about the music festival" helps the Palestinian cause?!
You've already acknowledged that you can do the square root of f**k all other than say "dammi falastini" to whoever will listen, so where on earth do you get your sense of moral superiority from?!
i have looked back at your posts on this thread and not once have you called out Israeli genocide. all you have done is take pops at posters who are calling out the genocide. At a bare minimum you'd expect a person with any level of decency to comment on the ongoing genocide and indiscriminate murder of over 7000 people. you have not, you are silent.
insulting anyone that shares on opinion or cares about the people who are being murdered.
are you the gobshite who said words don't matter!!! when dehumanising is key to genocide and history has proved that time and Time again and you have the gall to call my claims baseless and tell me I cannot read.
I am fully aware of the limitations of what I can do to stop a genocide in the middle east, that doesn't mean I will stay silent. (and this website isn't the only place I discuss this)
to be honest those who call out genocide and apartheid are morally superior to those who see it, ignore it, support it or partake in it.
I also never said we don't really know what happened at the music festival.
Oh no, I haven't called out Israeli genocide on the thread on the GAAboard! Congrats to everyone who did, you've successfully met the standards of PHP, the self appointed moral arbiter of what is and isn't an acceptable stance on the middle East on behalf of the Palestinian people!
Or maybe, just maybe, I deliberately stayed out of this thread for a good while given how unbearably toxic it had become? Possible do you think?
At no point have I taken pops at posters in relation to comments about genocide or war crimes. I fully agree that Israel is committing war crimes, has done so since 1948 and is on the verge of committing genocide. Nowhere have I ever said otherwise or disputed this, regardless of whatever bullshit your decide to make up about "defending Israel". For some reason I don't believe I need your f**king endorsement
The difference is I happen to think all genocide and mass murder is a
bad thing whereas the likes of your mate here would gladly see 10m Israelis wiped off the face of the earth, albeit he might make an allowance for the ones who aren't Jews. What I have done is criticise conspiracy theorist nonsense. I'll ask again for you to post a single first hand source from a reputable media organisation where Yasmin Porat or Avi Rosenfeld say ANYTHING that corroborates your or Seafoid's bullshit.
When and where did I say words don't matter? Of course words matter. What doesn't matter is empty f**king slogans on an anonymous online forum.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 04:18:18 PMto be honest those who call out genocide and apartheid are morally superior to those who see it, ignore it, support it or partake in it.
Out of curiosity, how many online forums does one have to post their opposition to Israeli war crimes in before they can satisfy themselves that you'll judge them as falling on the right side of history?
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 04:07:33 PMLmao, the absolute state of that. My "silence"?! What the f**k are you talking about?
Do you not understand that you lose all credibility and undermine your own position when spouting utter garbage? You think posting/supporting baseless innuendo (at best) such as "we don't really know about the music festival" helps the Palestinian cause?!
You've already acknowledged that you can do the square root of f**k all other than say "dammi falastini" to whoever will listen, so where on earth do you get your sense of moral superiority from?!
Who appointed you as censor? We do not know the breakdown of the deaths matched against Israeli army and airforce activity. There is nothing wrong with Grayzone. We do know that Israelis were blown up by the IDF.
Israel is a disgrace.
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 04:55:34 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 04:07:33 PMLmao, the absolute state of that. My "silence"?! What the f**k are you talking about?
Do you not understand that you lose all credibility and undermine your own position when spouting utter garbage? You think posting/supporting baseless innuendo (at best) such as "we don't really know about the music festival" helps the Palestinian cause?!
You've already acknowledged that you can do the square root of f**k all other than say "dammi falastini" to whoever will listen, so where on earth do you get your sense of moral superiority from?!
Who appointed you as censor? We do not know the breakdown of the deaths matched against Israeli army and airforce activity. There is nothing wrong with Grayzone. We do know that Israelis were blown up by the IDF.
Israel is a disgrace.
If we don't know about this why do you persist with your 600 theory?
Here's what I do know, there will be 10's of thousands of deaths by the finish...
I really hope this was worth it in the end..
yes, a thread dedicated to Israel Palestine and you hadn't until the last post called it out.
I never said I am the moral arbiter. you made numerous posts on the thread without doing so, so I am not sure how that is staying out of it, but you were silent.
I not going to waste my time again looking at your posts but you continually took pops at posts, proof in point the last few.
you want me to proof something and you were provided names, articles, newspaper and media outlets to check but you want more and just call it conspiracy!!!
I have never claimed i want to wipe out Israel and infact answered another poster on what I think should be done and it did not involve there being no Israel. I am not seafoid, I am not his mate, stop conflating us and stop derailing this thread.
you posted words don't matter to me a few days ago.
your last post shows how petty you really are, you either stand against genocide and apartheid or you are complicit, it's not about how many post you have or forums you post on or marches you attend but if you do for example post on a thread on a forum with 78 pages on a conflict about genocide and apartheid and fail to call it out, that says alot.
It says absolutely nothing other than the fact I don't feel any requirement to need the validation and vindication of anonymous twats on the internet.
If derive something from it, then good for you. I mean, it's pathetic and makes you a complete bellend, but good for you nonetheless.
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 05:11:13 PMIt says absolutely nothing other than the fact I don't feel any requirement to need the validation and vindication of anonymous twats on the internet.
If derive something from it, then good for you. I mean, it's pathetic and makes you a complete bellend, but good for you nonetheless.
more insults, your contributions show anyone reading them the type of person you are, talk.about moral superiority!!!
we are all just gobshites for sharing opinions, discussing and disagreeing on varies topics online. it's all about the validation and vindication!!!
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 05:05:43 PMyou want me to proof something and you were provided names, articles, newspaper and media outlets to check but you want more and just call it conspiracy!!!
Yes, you and seafood posted names, articles, newspaper and media outlets congratulations.
My challenge was that the teeny tiny issue was that none of them actually corroborated the argument you were trying to make.
You're correct in relation to not being seafoid, so I apologise for conflating the two of you and your remarkably similar positions. Then again, by your logic, you failed to deny or challenge his nonsense, so I can only assume you support it. That's how it works, yes?
Sure this thread and others has people losing the run of themselves calling people bellends racists Nazis and stupid bastards.
While sitting on their sofa
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2023, 05:27:14 PMSure this thread and others has people losing the run of themselves calling people bellends racists Nazis and stupid bastards.
While sitting on their sofa
Sofa warriors unite.
I don't think this thread is overly toxic tbh. I don't think there's anyone on here who doesn't want an immediate cease fire and who's watching in disbelief at a: what's happening and b: the endorsement of qcontinued and sustained attempt to wipe a nation out.
* Sitting in the car outside the supermarket atm.
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 05:25:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 05:05:43 PMyou want me to proof something and you were provided names, articles, newspaper and media outlets to check but you want more and just call it conspiracy!!!
Yes, you and seafood posted names, articles, newspaper and media outlets congratulations.
My challenge was that the teeny tiny issue was that none of them actually corroborated the argument you were trying to make.
You're correct in relation to not being seafoid, so I apologise for conflating the two of you and your remarkably similar positions. Then again, by your logic, you failed to deny or challenge his nonsense, so I can only assume you support it. That's how it works, yes?
each one of them corroborates the argument that the IOF/IDF likely killed their own, given they were bombing them and shooting at them. They have done it before too and they have an actual directive about it.
just for balance, I have seen numerous videos of Hamas treating hostages very well, including Israelis saying they were treated well, It doesn't mean they treat or treated them all well..
I have challenged numerous people, I tend to try and ignore some posters, seafoid is one (i dont like his style of posting), burdizzo is another. I have called out numerous anti semitic posts too but not all, there are 78 pages.
Quote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 05:25:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 05:05:43 PMyou want me to proof something and you were provided names, articles, newspaper and media outlets to check but you want more and just call it conspiracy!!!
Yes, you and seafood posted names, articles, newspaper and media outlets congratulations.
My challenge was that the teeny tiny issue was that none of them actually corroborated the argument you were trying to make.
You're correct in relation to not being seafoid, so I apologise for conflating the two of you and your remarkably similar positions. Then again, by your logic, you failed to deny or challenge his nonsense, so I can only assume you support it. That's how it works, yes?
Who cares if you don't agree? Who said everyone had to agree anyway?
The pictures from the kibbutz show that the damage was not inflicted by rifles. It's also notable that Israel hasn't given a breakdown of deaths. But If you don't agree I couldn't care less.
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 05:42:17 PMQuote from: gallsman on October 28, 2023, 05:25:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2023, 05:05:43 PMyou want me to proof something and you were provided names, articles, newspaper and media outlets to check but you want more and just call it conspiracy!!!
Yes, you and seafood posted names, articles, newspaper and media outlets congratulations.
My challenge was that the teeny tiny issue was that none of them actually corroborated the argument you were trying to make.
You're correct in relation to not being seafoid, so I apologise for conflating the two of you and your remarkably similar positions. Then again, by your logic, you failed to deny or challenge his nonsense, so I can only assume you support it. That's how it works, yes?
Who cares if you don't agree? Who said everyone had to agree anyway?
The pictures from the kibbutz show that the damage was not inflicted by rifles. It's also notable that Israel hasn't given a breakdown of deaths. But If you don't agree I couldn't care less.
But you do care and respond accordingly ;)
The Israelis attacked the kibbutz and people fleeing from the festival. 112 people were killed at the Kibbutz.
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1718308008713650412
Ah come on Seafoid, there is enough body cam footage from Hamas fighters wandering about the Kibbutz shooting people on site, setting fire to homes with people in safe rooms. You need to go and have a lie down
Quote from: Deerstalker on October 28, 2023, 09:46:22 PMAh come on Seafoid, there is enough body cam footage from Hamas fighters wandering about the Kibbutz shooting people on site, setting fire to homes with people in safe rooms. You need to go and have a lie down
Setting fire to concrete walls ? with bullets? Catch yourself on
About time the Admins done their job here before this thread goes the same way as the American politics thread, imagine arguing over how much people killed doesn't matter if its 800/1400 one way 7/8000 the other, alot of people are dead, and it's like, it's alright, they only killed 800, not 1400, need have a hard look at u yourself.
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 09:49:51 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 28, 2023, 09:46:22 PMAh come on Seafoid, there is enough body cam footage from Hamas fighters wandering about the Kibbutz shooting people on site, setting fire to homes with people in safe rooms. You need to go and have a lie down
Setting fire to concrete walls ? with bullets? Catch yourself on
As I said you probably need a time out from the internet for a while
@shayan86 worth a follow on Twitter, a bbc verify reporter who is documenting the fake images & AI images that are being shared with millions of views on Twitter
Gerry Adams shared one of them yesterday :-\
Misinformation on this is huge. The Russia Ukraine thing is the same.
Quote from: Deerstalker on October 28, 2023, 09:58:11 PM@shayan86 worth a follow on Twitter, a bbc verify reporter who is documenting the fake images & AI images that are being shared with millions of views on Twitter
Gerry Adams shared one of them yesterday :-\
Anything about fake GAAboard profiles? Incredible knowledge for 23 posts
Ah lads, could ye not have been looking at the rugby?!
Quote from: Deerstalker on October 28, 2023, 09:58:11 PM@shayan86 worth a follow on Twitter, a bbc verify reporter who is documenting the fake images & AI images that are being shared with millions of views on Twitter
Gerry Adams shared one of them yesterday :-\
BBC reporters are definitely not impartial in this
Quote from: Deerstalker on October 28, 2023, 09:51:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 09:49:51 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 28, 2023, 09:46:22 PMAh come on Seafoid, there is enough body cam footage from Hamas fighters wandering about the Kibbutz shooting people on site, setting fire to homes with people in safe rooms. You need to go and have a lie down
Setting fire to concrete walls ? with bullets? Catch yourself on
keep watching bbc
Quote from: Deerstalker on October 28, 2023, 09:51:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 09:49:51 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 28, 2023, 09:46:22 PMAh come on Seafoid, there is enough body cam footage from Hamas fighters wandering about the Kibbutz shooting people on site, setting fire to homes with people in safe rooms. You need to go and have a lie down
Setting fire to concrete walls ? with bullets? Catch yourself on
As I said you probably need a time out from the internet for a while
As I said you probably need a time out from the internet for a while
you keep getting your news from BBC, the fact Israeli's killed some of their own people is widely reported. How many, no one will ever know but think you need to expand where you get your information.
Quote from: seafoid on October 28, 2023, 10:13:35 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 28, 2023, 09:58:11 PM@shayan86 worth a follow on Twitter, a bbc verify reporter who is documenting the fake images & AI images that are being shared with millions of views on Twitter
Gerry Adams shared one of them yesterday :-\
Anything about fake GAAboard profiles? Incredible knowledge for 23 posts
What are you talking about ? You seem unhinged
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 28, 2023, 09:50:44 PMAbout time the Admins done their job here before this thread goes the same way as the American politics thread, imagine arguing over how much people killed doesn't matter if its 800/1400 one way 7/8000 the other, alot of people are dead, and it's like, it's alright, they only killed 800, not 1400, need have a hard look at u yourself.
Best to lock this thread till Monday morning.
Posts on the topic elsewhere will get the poster a 5 day ban.
https://twitter.com/numarqs/status/1718720754731319596?t=1nBkxTNdr7pb7hd9OhF19g&s=19
Watching it over the weekend would remind you of the images of the Dresden bombings during WW2
What is the long term strategy here?
Wipe out the Hamas infrastructure, its leaders and take away any stockpiles they have?
Stay for 3 years or more
Detain, kill any male over the age of 16
Cut Gaza in half or squeeze the civilians out of Gaza altogether
The Middle East is a tinder box at the minute
Lebanon will be the next target along with the Westbank
It's my opinion that this is nothing more than a land grab. Whether the 7th Oct attacks were allowed to happen or whether, from an Israeli perspective, they were an event that now gives them the excuse to do what ever they want. The images coming out are disgraceful yet I watch BBC News yesterday and it was a false equivalence all the way between Israeli hostages and Palestinian dead. In fact Palestinian dead were spoken about as if they were dead cattle, the Israeli hostages presented as real people with friends and family interviewed. The world is fucked, I hope we get smashed by an asteroid, it's all we deserve.
A contributing factor to the imbalance is perhaps that Hamas wore body cameras, carried out their atrocities, and then shared to the world - why, I don't know?
The atrocities in Gaza are less documented because it's sealed off.
In this age of 'content' influencing public opinion, the Palestinians have been screwed by both Hamas and Israel.
Quote from: Itchy on October 30, 2023, 08:33:20 AMhttps://twitter.com/numarqs/status/1718720754731319596?t=1nBkxTNdr7pb7hd9OhF19g&s=19
This confirms what I had been thinking the Israeli approach is - if the translation is accurate.
Disgraceful, shameful and evil.
Quote from: Sportacus on October 30, 2023, 01:02:22 PMA contributing factor to the imbalance is perhaps that Hamas wore body cameras, carried out their atrocities, and then shared to the world - why, I don't know?
The atrocities in Gaza are less documented because it's sealed off.
In this age of 'content' influencing public opinion, the Palestinians have been screwed by both Hamas and Israel.
the media chose what you see, If you want to see the atrocities in Gaza I can share them with you.. the one of the palestinian body dragged behind an IDF vehicle yesterday is one example, joe brolly re tweeted it. there is 75 plus years worth of it and thousands of recent examples on twitter. the people screwing the Palestinians are the israelis and their enables UK/US/EU.
The hamas bodycam footage shared from Hamas doesn't show atrocities, the bodycam footage shared by the Israelis shows them shooting indiscriminately at houses, cars, porta pottys, walking around kibbutz etc. (all of which contain civilians for the avoidance of doubt)
The bodycams were likely to capture them attacking the Gaza Division military complexs and most of the hamas released footage related to that rather that what happened in the Kibbutz and festival.
https://twitter.com/Trickyjabs/status/1718887609211011208?t=Nx5R1GSTh1M7TfMuMg9EGQ&s=19
New hostage video released, don't have full translation but the 1 hostage is blaming Bibi for not getting them out amd the conditions are bad.
https://twitter.com/moneimpress/status/1718983504124334560?t=XvdbSYVwZnHziUdLFZrF_w&s=19
Aside from everything that is going on or what happened and who did what.
Is this the final solution to the Israeli problem (used these words on purpose)
What will Hamas gain from this? Will it set them back another 20 years or will EU/UK/USA through the UN actually take over the running of Gaza and allow it to become a state of its own?
Would Hamas take western help?
We'll be at 20,000 deaths minimum before this finish, any male over the age of 16 that stays in the north of the strip will be detained or killed
In 2000 the population of Gaza was 1 million. Today it is 2 million.
The people are totally dependent on humanitarian aid. 500 trucks per day. Europe pays for this.
Israel destroyed the economy. Israel doesn't pay for anything.
The population adds 34,000 people per year.
Murdering 20,000 won't achieve anything. The Palestinians will not leave their homeland.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2023, 01:38:31 PMAside from everything that is going on or what happened and who did what.
Is this the final solution to the Israeli problem (used these words on purpose)
What will Hamas gain from this? Will it set them back another 20 years or will EU/UK/USA through the UN actually take over the running of Gaza and allow it to become a state of its own?
Would Hamas take western help?
We'll be at 20,000 deaths minimum before this finish, any male over the age of 16 that stays in the north of the strip will be detained or killed
there is no set back as there was no support from UK/US/EU. The 2 state solution is almost dead due to the actions of Israel creating facts on the ground while UK/US/EU enable them. Israel will never accept one state as they will never accept Palestinians as equals. Every elections leads to another escalation and massacre of Palestinians.
Arab states in the 80s recognised Israel, Hamas changed their charter in 2017, they offered a 15 year ceasefire when elected (if I remember correctly).
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-offers-long-term-ceasefire-in-exchange-for-end-of-blockade/
Netanyahu told Israelis that there was a technical solution to the Palestinian question. A series of observation towers with hands free submachine guns and cameras to relay all occupation data to the army centre at the Erez Crossing for full control. The political side was covered by the Abraham accords with the big prize of a diplomatic relationship with Saudi at the end. Netanyahu though that the Palestinians were finished.
The first sign that something was wrong was at the World Cup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhbVB7Sv0FM
on 7 October Hamas took out the observation towers,
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1711330417507197141
the Army centre at Erez and broke through Israel's first line of defence
the commander at Erez asked the Israeli air force to bomb his building.
Now the Muslim world is united against US regional power and Western hegemony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2wZXWbieuM
Other than that everything is fine.
Quote from: seafoid on October 30, 2023, 02:27:17 PMNetanyahu told Israelis that there was a technical solution to the Palestinian question. A series of observation towers with hands free submachine guns and cameras to relay all occupation data to the army centre at the Erez Crossing for full control. The political side was covered by the Abraham accords with the big prize of a diplomatic relationship with Saudi at the end. Netanyahu though that the Palestinians were finished.
The first sign that something was wrong was at the World Cup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhbVB7Sv0FM
on 7 October Hamas took out the observation towers,
https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1711330417507197141
the Army centre at Erez and broke through Israel's first line of defence
the commander at Erez asked the Israeli air force to bomb his building.
Now the Muslim world is united against US regional power and Western hegemony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2wZXWbieuM
Other than that everything is fine.
In contrast, the Muslim world is silent about the Uyghur genocide in China
I'm not sure about the reliability of this, but it seems plausible
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1719000849299407012
Quote from: armaghniac on October 30, 2023, 04:36:20 PMI'm not sure about the reliability of this, but it seems plausible
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1719000849299407012
That was covered in a Middle East Eye article.
The Egyptians were offered $20bn but Blinken had to pull the plan when it leaked out and the Arab street heard about it.
In fairness to the Brits they never proposed moving the taig quotient in Armagh and Tyrone to Scotland
Quote from: seafoid on October 30, 2023, 04:46:11 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 30, 2023, 04:36:20 PMI'm not sure about the reliability of this, but it seems plausible
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1719000849299407012
That was covered in a Middle East Eye article.
The Egyptians were offered $20bn but Blinken had to pull the plan when it leaked out and the Arab street heard about it.
In fairness to the Brits they never proposed moving the taig quotient in Armagh and Tyrone to Scotland
The Taigs left in Armagh and Tyrone were those on boggy mountains after they had moved the rest to Mayo and Galway.
Perhaps they should move the American Settlers from the West Bank to Gaza and move the people of Gaza to the West Bank?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 30, 2023, 05:11:00 PMQuote from: seafoid on October 30, 2023, 04:46:11 PMQuote from: armaghniac on October 30, 2023, 04:36:20 PMI'm not sure about the reliability of this, but it seems plausible
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1719000849299407012
That was covered in a Middle East Eye article.
The Egyptians were offered $20bn but Blinken had to pull the plan when it leaked out and the Arab street heard about it.
In fairness to the Brits they never proposed moving the taig quotient in Armagh and Tyrone to Scotland
The Taigs left in Armagh and Tyrone were those on boggy mountains after they had moved the rest to Mayo and Galway.
Perhaps they should move the American Settlers from the West Bank to Gaza and move the people of Gaza to the West Bank?
Swap a potentially rich Mediterranean city state for a barren hilly desert!
They should move the settlers from the West Bank back to their own side of the border.
This is the plan
https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/israeli-leader-its-time-to-turn-gaza-into-dresden-gas-the-palestinians-now/
It's genocide and ethnic cleansing. Nazi style.
Quote from: Itchy on October 30, 2023, 06:51:33 PMThis is the plan
https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/israeli-leader-its-time-to-turn-gaza-into-dresden-gas-the-palestinians-now/
It's genocide and ethnic cleansing. Nazi style.
supported by
https://twitter.com/m7mdkurd/status/1718982214166204787?t=dBXyfgzX8xyNh6WneLnNzg&s=19
Keir Starmer, Lammy, Hodge endorses war crimes live on camera, no issue.
Andy McDonald (Lab) endorses Israelis and Palestinians living together peacefully and he is suspended.
Torys also removed someone for calling for a ceasefire.
It is shocking what we are seeing going on here. Obvious genocide and ethnic cleansing being carried out in full view of the world with almost complete silence from the western leaders and media. It's genuinely shocking.
Original Likud party platform
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party
"between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. "
Quote from: Itchy on October 30, 2023, 09:05:43 PMIt is shocking what we are seeing going on here. Obvious genocide and ethnic cleansing being carried out in full view of the world with almost complete silence from the western leaders and media. It's genuinely shocking.
It's not. Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to Israel , and their crony arselickers from the West
The longer this goes on , the more I'm convinced this seemingly total obliteration of Gaza and the Palestinians was on the cards long before 7 October
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 30, 2023, 09:31:07 PMQuote from: Itchy on October 30, 2023, 09:05:43 PMIt is shocking what we are seeing going on here. Obvious genocide and ethnic cleansing being carried out in full view of the world with almost complete silence from the western leaders and media. It's genuinely shocking.
It's not. Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to Israel , and their crony arselickers from the West
The longer this goes on , the more I'm convinced this seemingly total obliteration of Gaza and the Palestinians was on the cards long before 7 October
I'm cynical too but I never thought something of this magnitude could happen in the face of huge public backlash. Our leaders couldnt care less what the people think.
Absolutely shameful.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 30, 2023, 08:45:06 PMKeir Starmer, Lammy, Hodge endorses war crimes live on camera, no issue.
Andy McDonald (Lab) endorses Israelis and Palestinians living together peacefully and he is suspended.
Torys also removed someone for calling for a ceasefire.
Also Braverman calling the march in London on Saturday a hate march
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YSuJUmdXHU
This is what he Cromwell invasion of Ireland was like. The psy ops, the lies and the gore.
The insanity
https://twitter.com/mish_aderr/status/1719186164954149160/photo/1
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 30, 2023, 08:45:06 PMKeir Starmer, Lammy, Hodge endorses war crimes live on camera, no issue.
Andy McDonald (Lab) endorses Israelis and Palestinians living together peacefully and he is suspended.
Torys also removed someone for calling for a ceasefire.
This is an example of Israeli and Jewish influence. We even seen it with Web Summit as well. Calling for anything other that Israel to defeat Hamas and wipe Palestinians off the face of the earth is hit with a huge backlash.
Quote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 09:08:03 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 30, 2023, 08:45:06 PMKeir Starmer, Lammy, Hodge endorses war crimes live on camera, no issue.
Andy McDonald (Lab) endorses Israelis and Palestinians living together peacefully and he is suspended.
Torys also removed someone for calling for a ceasefire.
This is an example of Israeli and Jewish influence. We even seen it with Web Summit as well. Calling for anything other that Israel to defeat Hamas and wipe Palestinians off the face of the earth is hit with a huge backlash.
It's the abuse of power by certain Jewish people. There is no accountability and it's really dangerous because ordinary Jews get blamed for it . That it what actually happened last time. 6 million people were murdered.
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/apeldoornsebos.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqVRcFQagtI
https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/israeli-leader-its-time-to-turn-gaza-into-dresden-gas-the-palestinians-now/
Jabalia (Jabalya) refugee camp scenes are frightening...
along with the multiple videos circulating of the Palestinian men in the West Bank who were stripped and/or beaten and recorded by the IOF/IDF.. nothing that hasn't happen before I might add.
Could Iran fire a nuke here?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 31, 2023, 03:16:44 PMCould Iran fire a nuke here?
they would have to get a nuke first. Israel could fire a nuke
Frig I thought they had them. Perhaps China can resolve this as don't see the west stepping in
Yeah, it could develop with Iran getting involved.
Israel have US and EU etc. by the b@lls and not letting go.
Israel wants to push Gaza into the sea and this is the chance they've waited for.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 31, 2023, 03:23:03 PMFrig I thought they had them. Perhaps China can resolve this as don't see the west stepping in
The West very weak here.
So today they've bombed a refugee camp
It's just one absolute disgrace after another
What will it take for the rest of the world (including the useful idiots who swallowed the propaganda about the hospital strike being an own goal) to call this what it is and shout stop?
At least Ireland comes out of this with a modicum of humanity and fair play to Michael D for ignoring protocol and calling a spade a f**king spade
The BEST case for Biden / Sunak / Von der Leyen etc etc is that history remembers them in the same vein as Neville Chamberlain
Quote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 03:44:49 PMQuote from: Walter Cronc on October 31, 2023, 03:23:03 PMFrig I thought they had them. Perhaps China can resolve this as don't see the west stepping in
The West very weak here.
It is very hard to see that changing too. When or how does this end :( Not good at all. They've done their worst so far today but it's hard to imagine that's the end of it.
Someone, someone, has to step in... surely??
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:46:53 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 03:44:49 PMQuote from: Walter Cronc on October 31, 2023, 03:23:03 PMFrig I thought they had them. Perhaps China can resolve this as don't see the west stepping in
The West very weak here.
It is very hard to see that changing too. When or how does this end :( Not good at all. They've done their worst so far today but it's hard to imagine that's the end of it.
Someone, someone, has to step in... surely??
Israel and the Jewish community have been clever to occupy key positions across the west giving them power that they otherwise wouldn't have. Commentators, press and of course political parties. They are only 0.5% of the population in England and Wales. 2.4% in USA.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:46:53 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 03:44:49 PMQuote from: Walter Cronc on October 31, 2023, 03:23:03 PMFrig I thought they had them. Perhaps China can resolve this as don't see the west stepping in
The West very weak here.
It is very hard to see that changing too. When or how does this end :( Not good at all. They've done their worst so far today but it's hard to imagine that's the end of it.
Someone, someone, has to step in... surely??
That's the question I'd most love to know the answer to.
Yeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
This is really insightful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrazXS2f34Y
Quote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
A wider war is in nobody's interest . Iran has long range rockets that can reach Israeli cities
Quote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Interesting views from a Jewish holocaust survivor, in an interview with 'he who must not be named' , from two years ago.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WdPdslOTwJU
Quote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
Hamas are fighting for Palestinian freedom . They are not the monster of Israeli PR.
If the occupation ended there would be no need for resistance.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 04:32:05 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
Sorry but murdering innocent people at a music festival and capturing innocent people as hostages is the work of psychopaths. Want to be considered a proper government then act like one. Same goes for Israel. Personally I would like to see the leaders of both in The Hague.
Quote from: seafoid on October 31, 2023, 04:35:38 PMHamas are fighting for Palestinian freedom . They are not the monster of Israeli PR.
If the occupation ended there would be no need for resistance.
Try telling that to the guy who had his head hacked off with the hoe
Hamas are Islamic fundamentalists. They have eradicated the secularism that was developing in Gaza under the PLO. No sane Irish person would ever want to live under them and I cannot fathom why we'd ever wish them on the poor people of Palestine, especially the women, and call it freedom. We had our own group of fundamentalist Catholic men that thought it was okay to lock women up in Magdalene launderies, deny women contraception, divorce, write into a constitution that their place was in the home. If you think that was bad, wait until you hear about these evil fucked up men called Hamas.
Quote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:51:57 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 04:32:05 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
Sorry but murdering innocent people at a music festival and capturing innocent people as hostages is the work of psychopaths. Want to be considered a proper government then act like one. Same goes for Israel. Personally I would like to see the leaders of both in The Hague.
very few would be considered proper government by your logic..Israel,USA, Saudis, Russia, Ukraine, UK the list goes on.
As I've said conflicts are the results of failure of international community, we are seeing now the international community are willing to enable genocide
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 05:11:09 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:51:57 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 04:32:05 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
Sorry but murdering innocent people at a music festival and capturing innocent people as hostages is the work of psychopaths. Want to be considered a proper government then act like one. Same goes for Israel. Personally I would like to see the leaders of both in The Hague.
very few would be considered proper government by your logic..Israel,USA, Saudis, Russia, Ukraine, UK the list goes on.
As I've said conflicts are the results of failure of international community, we are seeing now the international community are willing to enable genocide
Hamas should respect international law. Yes or No?
Quote from: weareros on October 31, 2023, 05:06:35 PMHamas are Islamic fundamentalists. They have eradicated the secularism that was developing in Gaza under the PLO. No sane Irish person would ever want to live under them and I cannot fathom why we'd ever wish them on the poor people of Palestine, especially the women, and call it freedom. We had our own group of fundamentalist Catholic men that thought it was okay to lock women up in Magdalene launderies, deny women contraception, divorce, write into a constitution that their place was in the home. If you think that was bad, wait until you hear about these evil fucked up men called Hamas.
The people voted for them in 2006. The PLO are corrupt and a shambles.. Hamas are modernising, but far from perfect.
Where would living under occupation for 75 years plus and caged for 16 years by genocidal Israelis rank
Quote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 05:14:26 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 05:11:09 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:51:57 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 04:32:05 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
Sorry but murdering innocent people at a music festival and capturing innocent people as hostages is the work of psychopaths. Want to be considered a proper government then act like one. Same goes for Israel. Personally I would like to see the leaders of both in The Hague.
very few would be considered proper government by your logic..Israel,USA, Saudis, Russia, Ukraine, UK the list goes on.
As I've said conflicts are the results of failure of international community, we are seeing now the international community are willing to enable genocide
Hamas should respect international law. Yes or No?
See the 'to be clear' section in my original response.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 05:22:30 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 05:14:26 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 05:11:09 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:51:57 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 04:32:05 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
Sorry but murdering innocent people at a music festival and capturing innocent people as hostages is the work of psychopaths. Want to be considered a proper government then act like one. Same goes for Israel. Personally I would like to see the leaders of both in The Hague.
very few would be considered proper government by your logic..Israel,USA, Saudis, Russia, Ukraine, UK the list goes on.
As I've said conflicts are the results of failure of international community, we are seeing now the international community are willing to enable genocide
Hamas should respect international law. Yes or No?
See the 'to be clear' section in my original response.
It's not even in the top 100 of things that need to be said right now but yet it seems to be the first things a lot of people have to say. "What about Hamas.."
I can tell you if I were living in Gaza I would've joined Hamas, no question about it.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 04:32:05 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
This is terrible shit, altogether. Hamas wilfully started this latest round of slaughter. They knew what would happen to their own people, and they still went ahead and 'prodded the tiger', as they say. It was no way an act of 'resistance', it was deliberately goading Israel. "Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation..."? Puh. Israel wouldn't have killed 8,000 if Hamas hadn't moved. NOTHING in geopolitics happens for no reason. And, yes, Hamas are a bag of Muslim psychos.
Hamas 'represent' Gaza the same way the Conservatives 'represent' the UK.
Israel are currently doing what Hamas hoped they would, in the hope that the situation would escalate to a regional clusterfuck forcing the issue. As the rest of the middle east are more interested in tourism / petro dollars I don't think it will escalate, so Hamas will achieve nothing except maybe seeing Gaza being wiped from existence.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 05:45:25 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 04:32:05 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
This is terrible shit, altogether. Hamas wilfully started this latest round of slaughter. They knew what would happen to their own people, and they still went ahead and 'prodded the tiger', as they say. It was no way an act of 'resistance', it was deliberately goading Israel. "Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation..."? Puh. Israel wouldn't have killed 8,000 if Hamas hadn't moved. NOTHING in geopolitics happens for no reason. And, yes, Hamas are a bag of Muslim psychos.
Only if you accept the US media line that always starts the coverage with Hamas's retaliation against some Israeli actions that conveniently never get any airtime.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 05:45:25 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 04:32:05 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
This is terrible shit, altogether. Hamas wilfully started this latest round of slaughter. They knew what would happen to their own people, and they still went ahead and 'prodded the tiger', as they say. It was no way an act of 'resistance', it was deliberately goading Israel. "Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation..."? Puh. Israel wouldn't have killed 8,000 if Hamas hadn't moved. NOTHING in geopolitics happens for no reason. And, yes, Hamas are a bag of Muslim psychos.
Ahh, the old 'they started it a few weeks ago' line.
Forgot about the the occupation of Palestine's land etc., never mind the open air prison...and the murder of Palestinian children day after day, for years and years.
Quote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 05:45:25 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 04:32:05 PMQuote from: trailer on October 31, 2023, 04:06:46 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on October 31, 2023, 03:59:27 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2023, 03:56:57 PMYeah this is a precarious enough situation as Irans, Russias etc etc could very well get involved here and if that happens it has the potential to get very very messy. It would appear the "west" will side with Israel no matter what :(
Do you think they should side with Iran ?
They should side with innocent men, women and children and bring pressure on Israel and Hamas to f**king stop attacking each other. Hamas are a bundle of Muslim psychopaths as well.
The West created this mess so they should sort it out. If that means committing troops then so be it.
Hamas are not a bundle of Muslim psychopaths, they are part of the resistance to the occupation of Palestine. They have the right to resist and right to self determination
under international law. ( to be clear they don't have the right to breach int law) They won elections in 2006, updated charter and recognoised israel in 2017 and they have offered numerous ceasefires which I shared a timesofisrael link to recently. Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation and oppression of Israel and its enablers.
This is terrible shit, altogether. Hamas wilfully started this latest round of slaughter. They knew what would happen to their own people, and they still went ahead and 'prodded the tiger', as they say. It was no way an act of 'resistance', it was deliberately goading Israel. "Hamas wouldn't exist but for the occupation..."? Puh. Israel wouldn't have killed 8,000 if Hamas hadn't moved. NOTHING in geopolitics happens for no reason. And, yes, Hamas are a bag of Muslim psychos.
Why are Israel bombing the west bank
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466
The IDF / Israeli Government are an absolute shower, no shame, no morals and do not seem to give a f@ck.
Quote from: bennydorano on October 31, 2023, 06:02:57 PMHamas 'represent' Gaza the same way the Conservatives 'represent' the UK.
Israel are currently doing what Hamas hoped they would, in the hope that the situation would escalate to a regional clusterfuck forcing the issue. As the rest of the middle east are more interested in tourism / petro dollars I don't think it will escalate, so Hamas will achieve nothing except maybe seeing Gaza being wiped from existence.
Israel's collective punishment of the civilians of Gaza and sadism such as bombing the Strip's hospitals has united the Middle East, the Sunni AND the Shia, against Israel.
the American right is splitting over this issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQGKzOHD_Ns
because the US cannot afford a regional war with inflation at 5% already. Any Yank involvement would involve unquantifiable risk. they wouldn't even be able to guarantee Israel's safety. That is the reality 20 years after the US invaded Iraq at Israel's behest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrazXS2f34Y
Israel should stop while it is ahead.
The people voted for Hamas in 2006.
50% of the population of Gaza are under 18.
What % of the current population voted for Hamas, and how many would do it today.
Most international calls for a ceasefire emphasise that the Hamas are not representative of the people of Gaza, that the people are not complicit in the war crimes.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 31, 2023, 08:50:53 PMThe people voted for Hamas in 2006.
50% of the population of Gaza are under 18.
What % of the current population voted for Hamas, and how many would do it today.
Most international calls for a ceasefire emphasise that the Hamas are not representative of the people of Gaza, that the people are not complicit in the war crimes.
is there a ceasefire? it doesn't matter if palestinians support Hamas or not..
Israel which has occupied, oppressed and massacred Palestinians for 75 years plus has been given carte blanche to continue to do as it pleases. is anyone concerned with who they voted in or supported over those 75 plus years.
The hypocrisy of the Uk/Eu/UK is evident to those who couldn't see it before yet it makes no difference. Genocide is now actively supported by Uk/Eu/UK, I am not sure how many more innocent civilians have to die to satisfy the Zionist bloodlust, its possible that those who aren't pushed into the Egyptian desert (after Egyptians are bought off) will be massacred as ethic cleansing is now acceptable to Uk/Eu/UK too.
The Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
looks like boris johnson wanted to genocide old people in uk
Quote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
hence why the Egyptians are been offered billions to take the palestinans.
The Palestinians don't want another nakba and to be ethically cleanse from their homeland again. They don't want to be in Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon, the refugees there are already denied their right of return.
Israel doesn't adhere to International law or UN resolutions and the Uk/Eu/UK enables the israelis. Lip service to the two state solution is all but ended. A Palestine state on the borders of 1967 with a bi lateral negotiated settlement on the right of return and other outstanding issues is the only chance of peace. That should be forced upon the Israelis via sanctions (for what they are worth) and boycott.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 09:58:27 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
hence why the Egyptians are been offered billions to take the palestinans.
The Palestinians don't want another nakba and to be ethically cleanse from their homeland again. They don't want to be in Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon, the refugees there are already denied their right of return.
Israel doesn't adhere to International law or UN resolutions and the Uk/Eu/UK enables the israelis. Lip service to the two state solution is all but ended. A Palestine state on the borders of 1967 with a bi lateral negotiated settlement on the right of return and other outstanding issues is the only chance of peace. That should be forced upon the Israelis via sanctions (for what they are worth) and boycott.
Isreal is an alliance of the west in the Middle East, there's no way the western leaders will allow that to change...
The fundamentalist Muslims (wherever they are) what nothing to do with the west, and would wipe out Christianity/Jews given half the chance. The Zionist want to wipe out Palestine and the west see it as the lesser of two evils
The Middle East was always going to be the next world war.
Can't see this ending up any other way in the long term as being the beginning of a new world war of sorts
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 10:12:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 09:58:27 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
hence why the Egyptians are been offered billions to take the palestinans.
The Palestinians don't want another nakba and to be ethically cleanse from their homeland again. They don't want to be in Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon, the refugees there are already denied their right of return.
Israel doesn't adhere to International law or UN resolutions and the Uk/Eu/UK enables the israelis. Lip service to the two state solution is all but ended. A Palestine state on the borders of 1967 with a bi lateral negotiated settlement on the right of return and other outstanding issues is the only chance of peace. That should be forced upon the Israelis via sanctions (for what they are worth) and boycott.
Isreal is an alliance of the west in the Middle East, there's no way the western leaders will allow that to change...
The fundamentalist Muslims (wherever they are) what nothing to do with the west, and would wipe out Christianity/Jews given half the chance. The Zionist want to wipe out Palestine and the west see it as the lesser of two evils
The Middle East was always going to be the next world war.
Can't see this ending up any other way in the long term as being the beginning of a new world war of sorts
the Muslims and Christians live side by side in occupied Palestine peacefully. The Zionists including children spit (literally) on the Palestinan christians.
so what you said is bullshit, ISIS and their ilk are despised in Gaza/Palestine. I havent read too much into it but Israel have some interesting alliances with ISIS. Hamas amended their charter and recogonsed Israel In 17.
the ARAB league in 88 recognoised Israel, there has/had been normalised relations with most Middle Eastern countries, there is no chance of Israel being wiped out, its bullshit Israeli hasbara, a distraction for fools.
However, day by day, week by week, etc. The israelis are actually wiping out the Palestinians, actually ethically cleansing and actually committing genocide.... but but Muslim fundamentalists!!!
Not sure if you can read, but I wrote the fundamentalist Muslims want to wipe out Christianity and the jews and the zionist want to wipe out Palestine like they have done for 75 years.
Not sure why you have tried to change what I said
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 10:12:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 09:58:27 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
hence why the Egyptians are been offered billions to take the palestinans.
The Palestinians don't want another nakba and to be ethically cleanse from their homeland again. They don't want to be in Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon, the refugees there are already denied their right of return.
Israel doesn't adhere to International law or UN resolutions and the Uk/Eu/UK enables the israelis. Lip service to the two state solution is all but ended. A Palestine state on the borders of 1967 with a bi lateral negotiated settlement on the right of return and other outstanding issues is the only chance of peace. That should be forced upon the Israelis via sanctions (for what they are worth) and boycott.
Isreal is an alliance of the west in the Middle East, there's no way the western leaders will allow that to change...
The fundamentalist Muslims (wherever they are) what nothing to do with the west, and would wipe out Christianity/Jews given half the chance. The Zionist want to wipe out Palestine and the west see it as the lesser of two evils
The Middle East was always going to be the next world war.
Can't see this ending up any other way in the long term as being the beginning of a new world war of sorts
In the context of Palestine, this is abject nonsense, regurgitated from some English tabloid.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 10:54:41 PMNot sure if you can read, but I wrote the fundamentalist Muslims want to wipe out Christianity and the jews and the zionist want to wipe out Palestine like they have done for 75 years.
Not sure why you have tried to change what I said
I've no idea what fundamentalist Muslims have to do with the conversation then about israel/palestine. i assumed it was following on from earlier comments where Hamas were referred to as fundamentalist psychopaths.
apologises, but I think its easy to see why someone would be confused by those comments, I see another poster took my interpretation also.
Quote from: Franko on October 31, 2023, 10:56:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 10:12:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 09:58:27 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
hence why the Egyptians are been offered billions to take the palestinans.
The Palestinians don't want another nakba and to be ethically cleanse from their homeland again. They don't want to be in Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon, the refugees there are already denied their right of return.
Israel doesn't adhere to International law or UN resolutions and the Uk/Eu/UK enables the israelis. Lip service to the two state solution is all but ended. A Palestine state on the borders of 1967 with a bi lateral negotiated settlement on the right of return and other outstanding issues is the only chance of peace. That should be forced upon the Israelis via sanctions (for what they are worth) and boycott.
Isreal is an alliance of the west in the Middle East, there's no way the western leaders will allow that to change...
The fundamentalist Muslims (wherever they are) what nothing to do with the west, and would wipe out Christianity/Jews given half the chance. The Zionist want to wipe out Palestine and the west see it as the lesser of two evils
The Middle East was always going to be the next world war.
Can't see this ending up any other way in the long term as being the beginning of a new world war of sorts
In the context of Palestine, this is abject nonsense, regurgitated from some English tabloid.
Haven't bought a 'tabloid' in over 30 years but sure knock yourself out!
Have watched plenty of doc's over the years by people that live there, in the middle east, to make my own judgement, watched one recently, Of fathers and sons and there was another one based on the last war in 2014 in Gaza, horrific stuff.
The bit you highlighted is linked to how/who the likes of Hamas get their weapons, they are getting them from states that harbour the likes of ISIS and other similar groupings plus Iran, who are fundamentalists and would happily wipe out the west.
Israel of course get their weapons from the US and other EU states and would happily wipe out Muslims in the West Bank Lebanon and Gaza
I personally feel murdering people will only create more murders, I've yet to be convinced that it actually gets results.
If the UN isn't given some control over whats happening, then things will get, globally, a hell of a lot worse
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 11:31:12 PMQuote from: Franko on October 31, 2023, 10:56:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 10:12:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 09:58:27 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
hence why the Egyptians are been offered billions to take the palestinans.
The Palestinians don't want another nakba and to be ethically cleanse from their homeland again. They don't want to be in Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon, the refugees there are already denied their right of return.
Israel doesn't adhere to International law or UN resolutions and the Uk/Eu/UK enables the israelis. Lip service to the two state solution is all but ended. A Palestine state on the borders of 1967 with a bi lateral negotiated settlement on the right of return and other outstanding issues is the only chance of peace. That should be forced upon the Israelis via sanctions (for what they are worth) and boycott.
Isreal is an alliance of the west in the Middle East, there's no way the western leaders will allow that to change...
The fundamentalist Muslims (wherever they are) what nothing to do with the west, and would wipe out Christianity/Jews given half the chance. The Zionist want to wipe out Palestine and the west see it as the lesser of two evils
The Middle East was always going to be the next world war.
Can't see this ending up any other way in the long term as being the beginning of a new world war of sorts
In the context of Palestine, this is abject nonsense, regurgitated from some English tabloid.
Haven't bought a 'tabloid' in over 30 years but sure knock yourself out!
Have watched plenty of doc's over the years by people that live there, in the middle east, to make my own judgement, watched one recently, Of fathers and sons and there was another one based on the last war in 2014 in Gaza, horrific stuff.
The bit you highlighted is linked to how/who the likes of Hamas get their weapons, they are getting them from states that harbour the likes of ISIS and other similar groupings plus Iran, who are fundamentalists and would happily wipe out the west.
Israel of course get their weapons from the US and other EU states and would happily wipe out Muslims in the West Bank Lebanon and Gaza
I personally feel murdering people will only create more murders, I've yet to be convinced that it actually gets results.
If the UN isn't given some control over whats happening, then things will get, globally, a hell of a lot worse
Ah right sorry I didn't know you were just talking about where they get the guns n stuff ::)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 11:31:12 PMQuote from: Franko on October 31, 2023, 10:56:37 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2023, 10:12:09 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 09:58:27 PMQuote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
hence why the Egyptians are been offered billions to take the palestinans.
The Palestinians don't want another nakba and to be ethically cleanse from their homeland again. They don't want to be in Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon, the refugees there are already denied their right of return.
Israel doesn't adhere to International law or UN resolutions and the Uk/Eu/UK enables the israelis. Lip service to the two state solution is all but ended. A Palestine state on the borders of 1967 with a bi lateral negotiated settlement on the right of return and other outstanding issues is the only chance of peace. That should be forced upon the Israelis via sanctions (for what they are worth) and boycott.
Isreal is an alliance of the west in the Middle East, there's no way the western leaders will allow that to change...
The fundamentalist Muslims (wherever they are) what nothing to do with the west, and would wipe out Christianity/Jews given half the chance. The Zionist want to wipe out Palestine and the west see it as the lesser of two evils
The Middle East was always going to be the next world war.
Can't see this ending up any other way in the long term as being the beginning of a new world war of sorts
In the context of Palestine, this is abject nonsense, regurgitated from some English tabloid.
Haven't bought a 'tabloid' in over 30 years but sure knock yourself out!
Have watched plenty of doc's over the years by people that live there, in the middle east, to make my own judgement, watched one recently, Of fathers and sons and there was another one based on the last war in 2014 in Gaza, horrific stuff.
The bit you highlighted is linked to how/who the likes of Hamas get their weapons, they are getting them from states that harbour the likes of ISIS and other similar groupings plus Iran, who are fundamentalists and would happily wipe out the west.
Israel of course get their weapons from the US and other EU states and would happily wipe out Muslims in the West Bank Lebanon and Gaza
I personally feel murdering people will only create more murders, I've yet to be convinced that it actually gets results.
If the UN isn't given some control over whats happening, then things will get, globally, a hell of a lot worse
I dont understand your point or the point you are trying to make, are you just stating that groups/countries get weapons from other groups/countries and they all do it for their own selfish purpose be they Muslim, Christian or Zionist fundamentalists or whatever suits their agenda.
I think it's a red herring in a struggle for self determination for the palestinians against their occupier.
Would you not question the reasons as to the likes of the US and Iran Syria supply the weapons and stoke or support these wars? Its not to save lives in that region
Palestine has every right to defend itself, no problem with that, and you can only poke the bear so many times before it bites back, but the latest events have only lead to serious developments where the innocents are the losers here
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 12:25:23 AMWould you not question the reasons as to the likes of the US and Iran Syria supply the weapons and stoke or support these wars? Its not to save lives in that region
Palestine has every right to defend itself, no problem with that, and you can only poke the bear so many times before it bites back, but the latest events have only lead to serious developments where the innocents are the losers here
In other news
The sun is yellow
Quote from: Franko on November 01, 2023, 12:55:32 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 12:25:23 AMWould you not question the reasons as to the likes of the US and Iran Syria supply the weapons and stoke or support these wars? Its not to save lives in that region
Palestine has every right to defend itself, no problem with that, and you can only poke the bear so many times before it bites back, but the latest events have only lead to serious developments where the innocents are the losers here
In other news
The sun is yellow
Well that's a better response than trying to shoehorn in the hospital attack to every post
Quote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
If Israel attempts to ethnically cleanse the Palestinans AGAIN the whole Middle East will attack it simultaneously. What is happening right now is genocide run by Israeli Jews. Imagine if Ireland imposed a famine on England. That is how fucked up Israel is .
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 08:29:12 AMQuote from: Franko on November 01, 2023, 12:55:32 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 12:25:23 AMWould you not question the reasons as to the likes of the US and Iran Syria supply the weapons and stoke or support these wars? Its not to save lives in that region
Palestine has every right to defend itself, no problem with that, and you can only poke the bear so many times before it bites back, but the latest events have only lead to serious developments where the innocents are the losers here
In other news
The sun is yellow
Well that's a better response than trying to shoehorn in the hospital attack to every post
Israel doesn't bomb hospitals. It's all Islamic jihad.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 12:25:23 AMWould you not question the reasons as to the likes of the US and Iran Syria supply the weapons and stoke or support these wars? Its not to save lives in that region
Palestine has every right to defend itself, no problem with that, and you can only poke the bear so many times before it bites back, but the latest events have only lead to serious developments where the innocents are the losers here
why they supply the weapons is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme unless you are trying to link isis to Hamas because we all know once the west labels something 'evil' they can justify anything including genocide and ethic cleansing now, no red lines it appears.
innocent lives were being lost daily in Palestine, both in Gaza and the West Bank, nobody in the west cared or did anything, even most of the lip service had stopped. if it wasn't obvious how little they cared before the latest round of massacres it is surely clear to you know.
Please show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?
I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.
When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East
There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.
The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.
All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.
And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.
It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it
Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 08:36:35 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
If Israel attempts to ethnically cleanse the Palestinans AGAIN the whole Middle East will attack it simultaneously. What is happening right now is genocide run by Israeli Jews. Imagine if Ireland imposed a famine on England. That is how fucked up Israel is .
Is that not what Israel is doing without a chirp from the "whole Middle East"?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 09:43:39 AMPlease show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?
I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.
When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East
There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.
The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.
All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.
And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.
It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it
Can you provide any links to east african non gaza combatants? from articles I have read there is support for armed resistance. the Palestinians don't care about 'the more at play' they have tried for 75 years for self determination and they have been denied it, armed resistance is a natural reaction...
your focus seems fixed on what palestinans should/shouldn't do, when its apparent nothing they do apart from potentially armed resistance will work as the west refuses to hold Israel to account.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 09:43:39 AMPlease show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?
I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.
When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East
There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.
The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.
All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.
And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.
It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it
You have to understand the situation before 7 Oct. Israelis were convinced that the Palestinians were a defeated people, that there was a technological solution to keep Israel secure and that the Arabs could be bought to abandon the Palestinians vis the Abraham Accords. Even Saudi was tlking about normalising with Israel.
Now Arabs are united in outrage against Israel's genocide in Gaza. The Americans are not in a position to take out Iran. It's not 2003 any longer. So things have already improved for the Palestinians. Israel will have to climb down soon and the G7 will pay for the rebuild with a bit more for Casement Park.
Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 10:31:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 09:43:39 AMPlease show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?
I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.
When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East
There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.
The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.
All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.
And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.
It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it
You have to understand the situation before 7 Oct. Israelis were convinced that the Palestinians were a defeated people, that there was a technological solution to keep Israel secure and that the Arabs could be bought to abandon the Palestinians vis the Abraham Accords. Even Saudi was tlking about normalising with Israel.
Now Arabs are united in outrage against Israel's genocide in Gaza. The Americans are not in a position to take out Iran. It's not 2003 any longer. So things have already improved for the Palestinians. Israel will have to climb down soon and the G7 will pay for the rebuild with a bit more for Casement Park.
Things have improved for the Palestinians? Seriously?
Were the 10,000 dead worth this "improvement"?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 09:24:40 PMQuote from: LeoMc on October 31, 2023, 08:50:53 PMThe people voted for Hamas in 2006.
50% of the population of Gaza are under 18.
What % of the current population voted for Hamas, and how many would do it today.
Most international calls for a ceasefire emphasise that the Hamas are not representative of the people of Gaza, that the people are not complicit in the war crimes.
is there a ceasefire? it doesn't matter if palestinians support Hamas or not..
Israel which has occupied, oppressed and massacred Palestinians for 75 years plus has been given carte blanche to continue to do as it pleases. is anyone concerned with who they voted in or supported over those 75 plus years.
The hypocrisy of the Uk/Eu/UK is evident to those who couldn't see it before yet it makes no difference. Genocide is now actively supported by Uk/Eu/UK, I am not sure how many more innocent civilians have to die to satisfy the Zionist bloodlust, its possible that those who aren't pushed into the Egyptian desert (after Egyptians are bought off) will be massacred as ethic cleansing is now acceptable to Uk/Eu/UK too.
It does matter when the Israelis are assuming guilt by association and muddying the water gives them a fig leaf while they implement collective punishment in their blood lust.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 01, 2023, 10:04:11 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 08:36:35 AMQuote from: burdizzo on October 31, 2023, 09:37:04 PMThe Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.
If Israel attempts to ethnically cleanse the Palestinans AGAIN the whole Middle East will attack it simultaneously. What is happening right now is genocide run by Israeli Jews. Imagine if Ireland imposed a famine on England. That is how fucked up Israel is .
Is that not what Israel is doing without a chirp from the "whole Middle East"?
People are waiting . It's like the run up to WW1. 2 alliances, totally polarised and it just needs a trigger like the US declaring war on Iran.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 01, 2023, 11:54:43 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 31, 2023, 09:24:40 PMQuote from: LeoMc on October 31, 2023, 08:50:53 PMThe people voted for Hamas in 2006.
50% of the population of Gaza are under 18.
What % of the current population voted for Hamas, and how many would do it today.
Most international calls for a ceasefire emphasise that the Hamas are not representative of the people of Gaza, that the people are not complicit in the war crimes.
is there a ceasefire? it doesn't matter if palestinians support Hamas or not..
Israel which has occupied, oppressed and massacred Palestinians for 75 years plus has been given carte blanche to continue to do as it pleases. is anyone concerned with who they voted in or supported over those 75 plus years.
The hypocrisy of the Uk/Eu/UK is evident to those who couldn't see it before yet it makes no difference. Genocide is now actively supported by Uk/Eu/UK, I am not sure how many more innocent civilians have to die to satisfy the Zionist bloodlust, its possible that those who aren't pushed into the Egyptian desert (after Egyptians are bought off) will be massacred as ethic cleansing is now acceptable to Uk/Eu/UK too.
It does matter when the Israelis are assuming guilt by association and muddying the water gives them a fig leaf while they implement collective punishment in their blood lust.
they collectively punish anyway.. the scale and time period are just sped up for a while.. Look at the west bank which is not under Hamas.. no different.. look at the deaths and injuries figures for years/decades. Look at the apartheid in Israel.
slowing dying in caged Gaza or suffocating in shrinking west Bank and waiting for the west or Arabs to do something has resulted in nothing positive for Palestinans, just the noose getting tigher.
The idea that any other middle Eastern country is coming to the aid of the Palestinians or that there is anything resembling, or that could resemble, a middle Eastern "alliance" is completely and utterly delusional.
This incessant need to push the idea of some sort of pan Arab or pan Islamic mentality is bizarre and devoid of any reason.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 08:29:12 AMQuote from: Franko on November 01, 2023, 12:55:32 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 12:25:23 AMWould you not question the reasons as to the likes of the US and Iran Syria supply the weapons and stoke or support these wars? Its not to save lives in that region
Palestine has every right to defend itself, no problem with that, and you can only poke the bear so many times before it bites back, but the latest events have only lead to serious developments where the innocents are the losers here
In other news
The sun is yellow
Well that's a better response than trying to shoehorn in the hospital attack to every post
You fail to see the relevance which is unsurprising
If the gullible idiots refuse to swallow the hospital propaganda, then the tide of international revulsion rises much more quickly
As it is, they get away with it and continue to perpetrate atrocity after atrocity, until, at some point they do something so absolutely shocking, that Biden/Von der Leyen/Sunak etc etc can't ignore it any longer and tell them to stop
Lets face it - Israel is a small country, not dissimilar to Ireland in population and much smaller in area, with minimal natural resources
They have no inherent strength
They depend entirely on US weapons and money and tacit Western approval for each and every action they take here
Remove either of these things and they're fcuked
Israel's position (in the Middle East) is the sole reason to its importance to the west. It's unwavering defiance to Iran and other Arab states gives them, it seems, carte blanche, it will only take international condemnation of Israel's atrocities from the governments, but for whatever reason or what they provide the west with, it keeps allowing them to continue unabated.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 01:38:26 PMIsrael's position (in the Middle East) is the sole reason to its importance to the west. It's unwavering defiance to Iran and other Arab states gives them, it seems, carte blanche, it will only take international condemnation of Israel's atrocities from the governments, but for whatever reason or what they provide the west with, it keeps allowing them to continue unabated.
That's a simplification, and simplifications curse this debate. The West allowed 6 million Jews die without doing much about it in some cases and actively doing it in others and that also informs attitudes to Israel.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 01, 2023, 11:40:33 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 01, 2023, 10:31:30 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 09:43:39 AMPlease show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?
I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.
When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East
There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.
The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.
All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.
And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.
It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it
You have to understand the situation before 7 Oct. Israelis were convinced that the Palestinians were a defeated people, that there was a technological solution to keep Israel secure and that the Arabs could be bought to abandon the Palestinians vis the Abraham Accords. Even Saudi was tlking about normalising with Israel.
Now Arabs are united in outrage against Israel's genocide in Gaza. The Americans are not in a position to take out Iran. It's not 2003 any longer. So things have already improved for the Palestinians. Israel will have to climb down soon and the G7 will pay for the rebuild with a bit more for Casement Park.
Things have improved for the Palestinians? Seriously?
Were the 10,000 dead worth this "improvement"?
The Palestinians didn't kill them. Israel pre Oct 7 said no Palestinian state. Obama mentioned a Palestinian State as the answer last week. so if it gets them a state yes it is positive.
https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1716524464643375138
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2023, 02:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 01:38:26 PMIsrael's position (in the Middle East) is the sole reason to its importance to the west. It's unwavering defiance to Iran and other Arab states gives them, it seems, carte blanche, it will only take international condemnation of Israel's atrocities from the governments, but for whatever reason or what they provide the west with, it keeps allowing them to continue unabated.
That's a simplification, and simplifications curse this debate. The West allowed 6 million Jews die without doing much about it in some cases and actively doing it in others and that also informs attitudes to Israel.
Whether the west allowed it to happen during the holocaust is debatable, ordinary men, I think, is the doc on Netflix that will certainly give you perspective on how, ordinary men can do unimaginable things to fellow men.
This is happening now in 'reverse' and happened for all to see during the Balkan war. The west will step in when it suits them, maybe when there is something in it for them, halting the Russians in Ukraine seems to be ok and just, preventing ten of thousands of deaths in Palestine not so much..
Africa is a complete mess, but gets no coverage unless millions die of hunger, but never covering or sorting out the reasons to why they are dying
As Itchy said, a meteorite would sort the whole place out!
Israel's geopolitical purpose is to put smacht on the Middle East so that oil continues to flow. Israel was used as a bulwark against Arab nationalism in Egypt, Syria and Iraq in the 1960s. Egypt was brought onside when Israel handed back the Sinai in 1979. Israel was an ally of the shah in Iran until the revolution. Israel is an ally of Azerbaijan now.
Israel was feared up until a few years ago when the balance of military power changed after the Iraq and Syria wars.
Now Israel is running apartheid with genocide featuring this week. The locals are not happy. Israel has a lot of enemies and takes a lot of risks. The biggest danger would be the US abandoning it. The europeans abandoned the Crusaders in the Middle ages.
https://nationalinterest.org/commentary/brzezinski-the-syria-crisis-8636
But in the long run, a hostile region like that cannot be policed, even by a nuclear-armed Israel. It will simply do to Israel what some of the wars have done to us on a smaller scale. Attrite it, tire it, fatigue it, demoralize it, cause emigration of the best and the first, and then some sort of cataclysm at the end which cannot be predicted at this stage because we don't know who will have what by when. And after all, Iran is next door. It might have some nuclear capability. Suppose the Israelis knock it off. What about Pakistan and others? The notion that one can control a region from a very strong and motivated country, but of only six million people, is simply a wild dream.
Glad to see Joe Brolly giving both barrels to Genocide Joe on twitter and media picking it up. I'd love to see the Blewit family do the same. It would hurt the old bastard I think. He serves everything he gets for sanctioning these massacres.
He certainly does.
He could also have stopped Netanyahu and his extremist Government from their disgraceful treatment of Palestinians last few years but chose to ignore it.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 03:35:47 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2023, 02:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 01:38:26 PMIsrael's position (in the Middle East) is the sole reason to its importance to the west. It's unwavering defiance to Iran and other Arab states gives them, it seems, carte blanche, it will only take international condemnation of Israel's atrocities from the governments, but for whatever reason or what they provide the west with, it keeps allowing them to continue unabated.
That's a simplification, and simplifications curse this debate. The West allowed 6 million Jews die without doing much about it in some cases and actively doing it in others and that also informs attitudes to Israel.
Whether the west allowed it to happen during the holocaust is debatable, ordinary men, I think, is the doc on Netflix that will certainly give you perspective on how, ordinary men can do unimaginable things to fellow men.
This is happening now in 'reverse' and happened for all to see during the Balkan war. The west will step in when it suits them, maybe when there is something in it for them, halting the Russians in Ukraine seems to be ok and just, preventing ten of thousands of deaths in Palestine not so much..
Africa is a complete mess, but gets no coverage unless millions die of hunger, but never covering or sorting out the reasons to why they are dying
As Itchy said, a meteorite would sort the whole place out!
I hope you're not lumping me in with Hitler, Pol Pot , Netanyahu and the likes.
This phrase "Mans inhumanity to man " is insulting to millions upon millions of people who go through life harming nobody.
Wars are started by a small number of psychopaths, who care not a jot for other human beings. Most ordinary folk have their flaws , but most are not of the ilk of those headcases listed above
Quote from: AustinPowers on November 01, 2023, 07:01:53 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 03:35:47 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2023, 02:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2023, 01:38:26 PMIsrael's position (in the Middle East) is the sole reason to its importance to the west. It's unwavering defiance to Iran and other Arab states gives them, it seems, carte blanche, it will only take international condemnation of Israel's atrocities from the governments, but for whatever reason or what they provide the west with, it keeps allowing them to continue unabated.
That's a simplification, and simplifications curse this debate. The West allowed 6 million Jews die without doing much about it in some cases and actively doing it in others and that also informs attitudes to Israel.
Whether the west allowed it to happen during the holocaust is debatable, ordinary men, I think, is the doc on Netflix that will certainly give you perspective on how, ordinary men can do unimaginable things to fellow men.
This is happening now in 'reverse' and happened for all to see during the Balkan war. The west will step in when it suits them, maybe when there is something in it for them, halting the Russians in Ukraine seems to be ok and just, preventing ten of thousands of deaths in Palestine not so much..
Africa is a complete mess, but gets no coverage unless millions die of hunger, but never covering or sorting out the reasons to why they are dying
As Itchy said, a meteorite would sort the whole place out!
I hope you're not lumping me in with Hitler, Pol Pot , Netanyahu and the likes.
This phrase "Mans inhumanity to man " is insulting to millions upon millions of people who go through life harming nobody.
Wars are started by a small number of psychopaths, who care not a jot for other human beings. Most ordinary folk have their flaws , but most are not of the ilk of those headcases listed above
During economic disasters throughout history people will always look for reasons why, how do others flourish while we do not..
Sell people a story, create a boggey man and it's not difficult to get enough people to believe it..
Before long there are atrocities being carried out. All in the name of war or freedom or oppression or whatever, but whatever side of the fence you sit, you'll buy it.
Currently you have Afghanistan, Central African Republic, Ethiopia, Libya, Mali, Somalia, South Sudan, Syria and Palestine all in conflict.
The people fuelling these wars let on to be the peace brokers...
Ordinary people here, teachers, students, fathers, mothers carried out heinous stuff. Was it one person that dragged them into doing those things?
How did the west allow it to happen, Britain was getting their ass handed to them in WW2 until the USA entered the fray, "France was gone, half the Eastern countries were over run. How excately were they to do anything when they didn't get a foothold in Europe to Mid/late 1944?.It seems they were aware something was happening but how were they to do something in Poland other side of, Germany?. They did bomb the town beside 1 Death camp, and inmates wondered years later why they didn't try to bomb the camps.
What is forgot, is the Majority of Nazis saw no Justice, less than a hundred were hanged, this side of the Berlin wall. America the main party involved, in letting the majority of them off, so they could get Germany to roll in behind them, with the cold war heating up, in the 50's.Never saw Israel hold the USA to account for that. No Arab was ever involved in what happened to the Jewish population of Eastern Europe,Holland, France or German Jews during WW2. They sorta forget that these days.
Why did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
Quote from: ONeill on November 01, 2023, 11:01:54 PMWhy did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
Shinners not coming out of this well
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 01, 2023, 07:53:08 PMWhat is forgot, is the Majority of Nazis saw no Justice, less than a hundred were hanged, this side of the wall. America the main party involved in letting the majority of them off, so they could get Germany in behind them, during the cold wall heating up in the 50's.Never saw Israel hold the USA to account for that. No Arab was ever involved in what happened to the Jewish population of Eastern Europe,Holland, France or German Jews during WW2. They sorta forget that these days.
The Germans paid reparations to Holocaust survivors in Israel but the money was diverted to pay for infrastructure such as railways. Holocaust survivors were routinely humiliated in Israel in the 50s and 60s.
German politicians like Ursula plamas Israel so they won't be reminded of what the Nazis did. It's the same with dutch politicians . 75% of Dutch were murdered in the Holocaust. . Zionists are predators who portray themselves as victims.
They have redefined anti semitism as any opposition to Israel. And they now they are running a campaign of genocide.
Quote from: ONeill on November 01, 2023, 11:01:54 PMWhy did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
Expelling ambassadors is a show-off concept, not a serious one. The Russia, Iranian, Chinese etc ambassadors are still there and you need someone to give out it.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2023, 03:52:51 PMQuote from: ONeill on November 01, 2023, 11:01:54 PMWhy did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
Expelling ambassadors is a show-off concept, not a serious one. The Russia, Iranian, Chinese etc ambassadors are still there and you need someone to give out it.
Except the last time this happened they were leading the calls for it. What's changed? Genocide Joe cuddling up to Mary Lou is what happened.
They've lost my No1 vote as a result
Quote from: Itchy on November 02, 2023, 05:07:08 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2023, 03:52:51 PMQuote from: ONeill on November 01, 2023, 11:01:54 PMWhy did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
Expelling ambassadors is a show-off concept, not a serious one. The Russia, Iranian, Chinese etc ambassadors are still there and you need someone to give out it.
Except the last time this happened they were leading the calls for it. What's changed? Genocide Joe cuddling up to Mary Lou is what happened.
They've lost my No1 vote as a result
Would like to hear their reasons why.
Quote from: seafoid on November 02, 2023, 08:43:50 AM75% of Dutch were murdered in the Holocaust.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Netherlands
1930 7,825,000 +1.48%
1940 8,834,000 +1.22%
1950 10,026,773 +1.27%
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2023, 05:41:38 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 02, 2023, 05:07:08 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2023, 03:52:51 PMQuote from: ONeill on November 01, 2023, 11:01:54 PMWhy did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
Expelling ambassadors is a show-off concept, not a serious one. The Russia, Iranian, Chinese etc ambassadors are still there and you need someone to give out it.
Except the last time this happened they were leading the calls for it. What's changed? Genocide Joe cuddling up to Mary Lou is what happened.
They've lost my No1 vote as a result
Would like to hear their reasons why.
Because they want to be serious party and not just a shouty one.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2023, 06:23:48 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2023, 05:41:38 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 02, 2023, 05:07:08 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2023, 03:52:51 PMQuote from: ONeill on November 01, 2023, 11:01:54 PMWhy did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
Expelling ambassadors is a show-off concept, not a serious one. The Russia, Iranian, Chinese etc ambassadors are still there and you need someone to give out it.
Except the last time this happened they were leading the calls for it. What's changed? Genocide Joe cuddling up to Mary Lou is what happened.
They've lost my No1 vote as a result
Would like to hear their reasons why.
Because they want to be serious party and not just a shouty one.
To recap, they a: don't want to be show offs and b: don't want to be shouty... Got it
They are worried that Uncle Joe will turn off the money tap
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2023, 06:23:48 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2023, 05:41:38 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 02, 2023, 05:07:08 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2023, 03:52:51 PMQuote from: ONeill on November 01, 2023, 11:01:54 PMWhy did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
Expelling ambassadors is a show-off concept, not a serious one. The Russia, Iranian, Chinese etc ambassadors are still there and you need someone to give out it.
Except the last time this happened they were leading the calls for it. What's changed? Genocide Joe cuddling up to Mary Lou is what happened.
They've lost my No1 vote as a result
Would like to hear their reasons why.
Because they want to be serious party and not just a shouty one.
In 2021 the put a motion forward in the Dail to expel the Ambassador. What's changed I wonder. Not acceptable to me.
Irish-America for the most part is very pro-Israel and Jewish politicians in Democratic Party in USA have been very pro Ireland and very supportive of the Good Friday Agreement, and less friendly to DUP (not helped when Donaldson told Chuck Schumer to read a history book). Sinn Fein has close ties with Irish-America and raises lots of money there. They have even managed to have close ties with Republican/Right Wing Irish-American politicians. People like Peter King. Sure even Trump ended up at a Sinn Fein fundraiser once. In many ways it's remarkable how they do it. But abstaining is an example. They will not alienate that base. Will any of them boycott Biden on Saint Paddy's Day. That would be a No.
Shinners office in Dungiven painted over calling pointing out the Palestine hypocracy
Quote from: weareros on November 02, 2023, 09:31:59 PMIrish-America for the most part is very pro-Israel and Jewish politicians in Democratic Party in USA have been very pro Ireland and very supportive of the Good Friday Agreement, and less friendly to DUP (not helped when Donaldson told Chuck Schumer to read a history book). Sinn Fein has close ties with Irish-America and raises lots of money there. They have even managed to have close ties with Republican/Right Wing Irish-American politicians. People like Peter King. Sure even Trump ended up at a Sinn Fein fundraiser once. In many ways it's remarkable how they do it. But abstaining is an example. They will not alienate that base. Will any of them boycott Biden on Saint Paddy's Day. That would be a No.
Did that much happen in last 2 years
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2023, 06:23:48 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2023, 05:41:38 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 02, 2023, 05:07:08 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2023, 03:52:51 PMQuote from: ONeill on November 01, 2023, 11:01:54 PMWhy did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
Expelling ambassadors is a show-off concept, not a serious one. The Russia, Iranian, Chinese etc ambassadors are still there and you need someone to give out it.
Except the last time this happened they were leading the calls for it. What's changed? Genocide Joe cuddling up to Mary Lou is what happened.
They've lost my No1 vote as a result
Would like to hear their reasons why.
Because they want to be serious party and not just a shouty one.
At a time like this any serious party SHOULD be 'shouty'.
Quote from: Itchy on November 02, 2023, 10:27:40 PMQuote from: weareros on November 02, 2023, 09:31:59 PMIrish-America for the most part is very pro-Israel and Jewish politicians in Democratic Party in USA have been very pro Ireland and very supportive of the Good Friday Agreement, and less friendly to DUP (not helped when Donaldson told Chuck Schumer to read a history book). Sinn Fein has close ties with Irish-America and raises lots of money there. They have even managed to have close ties with Republican/Right Wing Irish-American politicians. People like Peter King. Sure even Trump ended up at a Sinn Fein fundraiser once. In many ways it's remarkable how they do it. But abstaining is an example. They will not alienate that base. Will any of them boycott Biden on Saint Paddy's Day. That would be a No.
Did that much happen in last 2 years
The Schumer Donaldson was this year.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/dup-leader-tells-chuck-schumer-to-read-a-history-book-as-brexit-jostling-continues-in-washington-12835041
Quote from: ONeill on November 01, 2023, 11:01:54 PMWhy did Sinn Fein abstain from the motion to expel the Israeli ambassador?
It's like Meloni in Italy and the boats - someone put their arm around her shoulder and whispered in her ear "you can't do that"!
Quote from: weareros on November 02, 2023, 09:31:59 PMIrish-America for the most part is very pro-Israel and Jewish politicians in Democratic Party in USA have been very pro Ireland and very supportive of the Good Friday Agreement, and less friendly to DUP (not helped when Donaldson told Chuck Schumer to read a history book). Sinn Fein has close ties with Irish-America and raises lots of money there. They have even managed to have close ties with Republican/Right Wing Irish-American politicians. People like Peter King. Sure even Trump ended up at a Sinn Fein fundraiser once. In many ways it's remarkable how they do it. But abstaining is an example. They will not alienate that base. Will any of them boycott Biden on Saint Paddy's Day. That would be a No.
All well and good but they've called for the Israeli ambassador to be expelled before have they not? And not that long ago if memory serves me right...
Quote from: general_lee on November 03, 2023, 09:51:50 AMQuote from: weareros on November 02, 2023, 09:31:59 PMIrish-America for the most part is very pro-Israel and Jewish politicians in Democratic Party in USA have been very pro Ireland and very supportive of the Good Friday Agreement, and less friendly to DUP (not helped when Donaldson told Chuck Schumer to read a history book). Sinn Fein has close ties with Irish-America and raises lots of money there. They have even managed to have close ties with Republican/Right Wing Irish-American politicians. People like Peter King. Sure even Trump ended up at a Sinn Fein fundraiser once. In many ways it's remarkable how they do it. But abstaining is an example. They will not alienate that base. Will any of them boycott Biden on Saint Paddy's Day. That would be a No.
All well and good but they've called for the Israeli ambassador to be expelled before have they not? And not that long ago if memory serves me right...
Of course they did and Ogra Sinn Fein collected 80,000 signatures. But at the same time they are not going to meet Chuck who personally told Sinn Fein he supports a United Ireland and took the nationalist side on Brexit having expelled the ambassador. He is now the man sending all the money to Israel to defend itself and wipe out Gaza. He even said it's not enough money. But that is how SF operate. It's why they are against fox hunting in 26 and voted for it in the 6. It's why they can break the 26 rules on accepting foreign money and use the 6 county rules to amass huge amounts, much from these out of touch Irish-Americans but who are strong on Irish Unity. They are for housing but not in my neighbourhood where there's votes to be got. They can hold these contradictory positions because they are aided by the same dumb Irish electorate that has also greatly benefited FFFG for last 100 years.
Political parties looking after their funding/votes/image
That stuff changes like the wind
Though the North Beflast MP was at a charity fund sevens tournament the other day in Ardoyne to raise money and awareness in Gazza...
Not sure of the 'company' line but individuals will have their strong moral compass intact
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2023, 11:13:36 AMPolitical parties looking after their funding/votes/image
That stuff changes like the wind
Though the North Beflast MP was at a charity fund sevens tournament the other day in Ardoyne to raise money and awareness in Gazza...
Not sure of the 'company' line but individuals will have their strong moral compass intact
Our local bread carrier has also put out a personal statement on the plight of the Gazan people.
SF and their online army have typically been one of the most robust at holding the "official position" so it is good to see some decentralisation and allowances for personal opinion and comment.
A political party does not need to hold an homogenous position on everything.
Read some interesting commentary on this where someone thinks that the "western world" are maneuvering towards blaming Netanyahu for this with the desired outcome being it is perceived Israel is not the problem at all and if he gets ousted then that will be presented as the problem having gone away.
Quote from: weareros on November 03, 2023, 10:32:32 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 03, 2023, 09:51:50 AMQuote from: weareros on November 02, 2023, 09:31:59 PMIrish-America for the most part is very pro-Israel and Jewish politicians in Democratic Party in USA have been very pro Ireland and very supportive of the Good Friday Agreement, and less friendly to DUP (not helped when Donaldson told Chuck Schumer to read a history book). Sinn Fein has close ties with Irish-America and raises lots of money there. They have even managed to have close ties with Republican/Right Wing Irish-American politicians. People like Peter King. Sure even Trump ended up at a Sinn Fein fundraiser once. In many ways it's remarkable how they do it. But abstaining is an example. They will not alienate that base. Will any of them boycott Biden on Saint Paddy's Day. That would be a No.
All well and good but they've called for the Israeli ambassador to be expelled before have they not? And not that long ago if memory serves me right...
Of course they did and Ogra Sinn Fein collected 80,000 signatures. But at the same time they are not going to meet Chuck who personally told Sinn Fein he supports a United Ireland and took the nationalist side on Brexit having expelled the ambassador. He is now the man sending all the money to Israel to defend itself and wipe out Gaza. He even said it's not enough money. But that is how SF operate. It's why they are against fox hunting in 26 and voted for it in the 6. It's why they can break the 26 rules on accepting foreign money and use the 6 county rules to amass huge amounts, much from these out of touch Irish-Americans but who are strong on Irish Unity. They are for housing but not in my neighbourhood where there's votes to be got. They can hold these contradictory positions because they are aided by the same dumb Irish electorate that has also greatly benefited FFFG for last 100 years.
SF will soon find being a protest party and a party of government are two very different things. Watch as they abandon many of their "official positions"
Quote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 12:25:40 PMQuote from: weareros on November 03, 2023, 10:32:32 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 03, 2023, 09:51:50 AMQuote from: weareros on November 02, 2023, 09:31:59 PMIrish-America for the most part is very pro-Israel and Jewish politicians in Democratic Party in USA have been very pro Ireland and very supportive of the Good Friday Agreement, and less friendly to DUP (not helped when Donaldson told Chuck Schumer to read a history book). Sinn Fein has close ties with Irish-America and raises lots of money there. They have even managed to have close ties with Republican/Right Wing Irish-American politicians. People like Peter King. Sure even Trump ended up at a Sinn Fein fundraiser once. In many ways it's remarkable how they do it. But abstaining is an example. They will not alienate that base. Will any of them boycott Biden on Saint Paddy's Day. That would be a No.
All well and good but they've called for the Israeli ambassador to be expelled before have they not? And not that long ago if memory serves me right...
Of course they did and Ogra Sinn Fein collected 80,000 signatures. But at the same time they are not going to meet Chuck who personally told Sinn Fein he supports a United Ireland and took the nationalist side on Brexit having expelled the ambassador. He is now the man sending all the money to Israel to defend itself and wipe out Gaza. He even said it's not enough money. But that is how SF operate. It's why they are against fox hunting in 26 and voted for it in the 6. It's why they can break the 26 rules on accepting foreign money and use the 6 county rules to amass huge amounts, much from these out of touch Irish-Americans but who are strong on Irish Unity. They are for housing but not in my neighbourhood where there's votes to be got. They can hold these contradictory positions because they are aided by the same dumb Irish electorate that has also greatly benefited FFFG for last 100 years.
SF will soon find being a protest party and a party of government are two very different things. Watch as they abandon many of their "official positions"
Yeah. They wouldn't be the first political party to ever change their tune.
Quote from: general_lee on November 03, 2023, 01:03:10 PMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 12:25:40 PMQuote from: weareros on November 03, 2023, 10:32:32 AMQuote from: general_lee on November 03, 2023, 09:51:50 AMQuote from: weareros on November 02, 2023, 09:31:59 PMIrish-America for the most part is very pro-Israel and Jewish politicians in Democratic Party in USA have been very pro Ireland and very supportive of the Good Friday Agreement, and less friendly to DUP (not helped when Donaldson told Chuck Schumer to read a history book). Sinn Fein has close ties with Irish-America and raises lots of money there. They have even managed to have close ties with Republican/Right Wing Irish-American politicians. People like Peter King. Sure even Trump ended up at a Sinn Fein fundraiser once. In many ways it's remarkable how they do it. But abstaining is an example. They will not alienate that base. Will any of them boycott Biden on Saint Paddy's Day. That would be a No.
All well and good but they've called for the Israeli ambassador to be expelled before have they not? And not that long ago if memory serves me right...
Of course they did and Ogra Sinn Fein collected 80,000 signatures. But at the same time they are not going to meet Chuck who personally told Sinn Fein he supports a United Ireland and took the nationalist side on Brexit having expelled the ambassador. He is now the man sending all the money to Israel to defend itself and wipe out Gaza. He even said it's not enough money. But that is how SF operate. It's why they are against fox hunting in 26 and voted for it in the 6. It's why they can break the 26 rules on accepting foreign money and use the 6 county rules to amass huge amounts, much from these out of touch Irish-Americans but who are strong on Irish Unity. They are for housing but not in my neighbourhood where there's votes to be got. They can hold these contradictory positions because they are aided by the same dumb Irish electorate that has also greatly benefited FFFG for last 100 years.
SF will soon find being a protest party and a party of government are two very different things. Watch as they abandon many of their "official positions"
Yeah. They wouldn't be the first political party to ever change their tune.
They should adopt that as their party slogan. I remember, no return to the status quo and Irish Language act now. Both quickly abandoned.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 03, 2023, 12:24:58 PMRead some interesting commentary on this where someone thinks that the "western world" are maneuvering towards blaming Netanyahu for this with the desired outcome being it is perceived Israel is not the problem at all and if he gets ousted then that will be presented as the problem having gone away.
The existence of the state of Israel is not the problem. The creation of the state created the problem but it has been accepted by the PLO, Hamas, etc.
The (majority of the) people of Israel are not the problem.
The problem is the current government of Israel and the extreme right wing Zionist settlers that prop up that government (Mafodal, Otzma even Shas) at a very bloody cost.
Most talks this century have come close to a solution, land swaps, security, some right of return, etc, but catering to those extremist settlers who would welcome the end of days has scuppered every deal.
Leaving aside Gaza, their ongoing activities in the West Bank and Netenyahus facilitation of it show clearly where the problem lays.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 03, 2023, 02:54:30 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on November 03, 2023, 12:24:58 PMRead some interesting commentary on this where someone thinks that the "western world" are maneuvering towards blaming Netanyahu for this with the desired outcome being it is perceived Israel is not the problem at all and if he gets ousted then that will be presented as the problem having gone away.
The existence of the state of Israel is not the problem. The creation of the state created the problem but it has been accepted by the PLO, Hamas, etc.
The (majority of the) people of Israel are not the problem.
The problem is the current government of Israel and the extreme right wing Zionist settlers that prop up that government (Mafodal, Otzma even Shas) at a very bloody cost.
Most talks this century have come close to a solution, land swaps, security, some right of return, etc, but catering to those extremist settlers who would welcome the end of days has scuppered every deal.
Leaving aside Gaza, their ongoing activities in the West Bank and Netenyahus facilitation of it show clearly where the problem lays.
Israeli society is the problem. GDP per head is $55,000 and $1500 in Gaza.
The Palestinians are the majority now . It's a trope about money.
16 Israeli soldiers were killed in Gaza yesterday.
Israelis don't like dead soldiers
Sinn Fein have now called for the Ambassador to be expelled following pressure from within the party. Better late than never.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 03, 2023, 02:54:30 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on November 03, 2023, 12:24:58 PMRead some interesting commentary on this where someone thinks that the "western world" are maneuvering towards blaming Netanyahu for this with the desired outcome being it is perceived Israel is not the problem at all and if he gets ousted then that will be presented as the problem having gone away.
The existence of the state of Israel is not the problem. The creation of the state created the problem but it has been accepted by the PLO, Hamas, etc.
The (majority of the) people of Israel are not the problem.
The problem is the current government of Israel and the extreme right wing Zionist settlers that prop up that government (Mafodal, Otzma even Shas) at a very bloody cost.
Most talks this century have come close to a solution, land swaps, security, some right of return, etc, but catering to those extremist settlers who would welcome the end of days has scuppered every deal.
Leaving aside Gaza, their ongoing activities in the West Bank and Netenyahus facilitation of it show clearly where the problem lays.
It depends on how Israel is defined. The borders of Israel now include Gaza and the West Bank..
Quote from: Itchy on November 03, 2023, 04:54:12 PMSinn Fein have now called for the Ambassador to be expelled following pressure from within the party. Better late than never.
They say the Ambassadors role in Ireland "is now untenable". How was it tenable yesterday?
Quote from: Sportacus on November 03, 2023, 05:35:49 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 03, 2023, 04:54:12 PMSinn Fein have now called for the Ambassador to be expelled following pressure from within the party. Better late than never.
They say the Ambassadors role in Ireland "is now untenable". How was it tenable yesterday?
Some boys are hard pleased
will sinn fein be calling for the american ambassador to be expelled
Quote from: Eire90 on November 03, 2023, 06:17:44 PMwill sinn fein be calling for the american ambassador to be expelled
Principles are easily bought and sold when you're $F.
Quote from: Eire90 on November 03, 2023, 06:17:44 PMwill sinn fein be calling for the american ambassador to be expelled
If they'd any balls. And the ze German one.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 03, 2023, 06:13:05 PMQuote from: Sportacus on November 03, 2023, 05:35:49 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 03, 2023, 04:54:12 PMSinn Fein have now called for the Ambassador to be expelled following pressure from within the party. Better late than never.
They say the Ambassadors role in Ireland "is now untenable". How was it tenable yesterday?
Some boys are hard pleased
What changed in a day??
Dungiven lad with spray paint was gonna go clean mad.
They saw all the lefties were about to outleft them?
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-intelligence-cyber-shield/
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2023, 06:31:52 PMThey saw all the lefties were about to outleft them?
All the nuts going nuts!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67306902
Quote from: JoG2 on November 03, 2023, 06:13:05 PMQuote from: Sportacus on November 03, 2023, 05:35:49 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 03, 2023, 04:54:12 PMSinn Fein have now called for the Ambassador to be expelled following pressure from within the party. Better late than never.
They say the Ambassadors role in Ireland "is now untenable". How was it tenable yesterday?
Some boys are hard pleased
Asking for a political party to have a consistent stance on important matters isnt asking for much
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 03, 2023, 08:27:19 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 03, 2023, 06:13:05 PMQuote from: Sportacus on November 03, 2023, 05:35:49 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 03, 2023, 04:54:12 PMSinn Fein have now called for the Ambassador to be expelled following pressure from within the party. Better late than never.
They say the Ambassadors role in Ireland "is now untenable". How was it tenable yesterday?
Some boys are hard pleased
Asking for a political party to have a consistent stance on important matters isnt asking for much
It's not really that important. Whether or not the Israeli ambassador to Ireland is expelled or not with make no difference to the Israel Gaza war.
The country that definitely didn't bomb a hospital last week are today bombing ambulances outside a hospital. You can go on twitter and observe the aftermath of that if you want to see children in pieces.
Anyone who supports Israel, talks about self defence etc can only be described as sick, totally sick.
This is like being back at the gas chambers in WW2 WITH social media and all the major countries just ignoring what they see. It's just incredible.
For those taking potshots at SF for changing tact, can we not just be grateful they've done the right thing and move on.
It is thoroughly depressing itchy and it doesn't look like it's going to stop. What does it take to stop it? That is also a frightening question tbh. The power Israel seem to wield over the "western world" is appalling.
You think about various things in history and think ah they couldn't happen now as the eyes of the world are on everything these days. This shows you it doesn't matter one jot.
The issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
The Irish political parties criticism needs to be directed at EU, Uk and US. But particularly the EU and US. I can no longer defend being in a EU union with political psychopaths. We need to threaten to leave. Not Brexit style. But for moral reasons. And SF, FG and FF need to boycott Biden, Schumer, Clinton and the democrats on March 17th. They are a totally different breed to us and we need to remove their ability to hyjack Irishness on our national holiday. We don't have much power but we have that.
Quote from: weareros on November 03, 2023, 11:07:22 PMThe Irish political parties criticism needs to be directed at EU, Uk and US. But particularly the EU and US. I can no longer defend being in a EU union with political psychopaths. We need to threaten to leave. Not Brexit style. But for moral reasons. And SF, FG and FF need to boycott Biden, Schumer, Clinton and the democrats on March 17th. They are a totally different breed to us and we need to remove their ability to hyjack Irishness on our national holiday. We don't have much power but we have that.
Boycotting the US parties would have fck all effect on them, but would have a major effect on investment and attitude to Ireland.
Fair enough if you're willing to accept making that sacrifice, but don't think it will register with the Americans or anyone else.
Quote from: Tubberman on November 04, 2023, 12:06:48 AMQuote from: weareros on November 03, 2023, 11:07:22 PMThe Irish political parties criticism needs to be directed at EU, Uk and US. But particularly the EU and US. I can no longer defend being in a EU union with political psychopaths. We need to threaten to leave. Not Brexit style. But for moral reasons. And SF, FG and FF need to boycott Biden, Schumer, Clinton and the democrats on March 17th. They are a totally different breed to us and we need to remove their ability to hyjack Irishness on our national holiday. We don't have much power but we have that.
Boycotting the US parties would have fck all effect on them, but would have a major effect on investment and attitude to Ireland.
Fair enough if you're willing to accept making that sacrifice, but don't think it will register with the Americans or anyone else.
Paddy Cosgrove spoke out and look what happened. The diplomats have to work inside the EU to build coalitions with other countries to change things. In the US the right is looking at Israel differently now and younger people are turning away.
Quote from: weareros on November 03, 2023, 11:07:22 PMThe Irish political parties criticism needs to be directed at EU, Uk and US. But particularly the EU and US. I can no longer defend being in a EU union with political psychopaths. We need to threaten to leave. Not Brexit style. But for moral reasons. And SF, FG and FF need to boycott Biden, Schumer, Clinton and the democrats on March 17th. They are a totally different breed to us and we need to remove their ability to hyjack Irishness on our national holiday. We don't have much power but we have that.
What a fantastic idea
Quote from: weareros on November 03, 2023, 11:07:22 PMThe Irish political parties criticism needs to be directed at EU, Uk and US. But particularly the EU and US. I can no longer defend being in a EU union with political psychopaths. We need to threaten to leave. Not Brexit style. But for moral reasons. And SF, FG and FF need to boycott Biden, Schumer, Clinton and the democrats on March 17th. They are a totally different breed to us and we need to remove their ability to hyjack Irishness on our national holiday. We don't have much power but we have that.
Please never ever run for political office.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 03, 2023, 09:45:04 PMIt is thoroughly depressing itchy and it doesn't look like it's going to stop. What does it take to stop it? That is also a frightening question tbh. The power Israel seem to wield over the "western world" is appalling.
You think about various things in history and think ah they couldn't happen now as the eyes of the world are on everything these days. This shows you it doesn't matter one jot.
Some absolutely stomach turning scenes coming out of Gaza on Twitter. Things no one should have to suffer or see, particularly when there are children involved. And it is particularly sickening of Israel to hide behind anti-Semitism and it's supporters play the anti-Semitic card at every opportunity when criticised. Regardless of race, creed or religion wrong is wrong and it should be called out for what it is.
Quote from: weareros on November 03, 2023, 11:07:22 PMThe Irish political parties criticism needs to be directed at EU, Uk and US. But particularly the EU and US. I can no longer defend being in a EU union with political psychopaths. We need to threaten to leave. Not Brexit style. But for moral reasons. And SF, FG and FF need to boycott Biden, Schumer, Clinton and the democrats on March 17th. They are a totally different breed to us and we need to remove their ability to hyjack Irishness on our national holiday. We don't have much power but we have that.
I agree. We shouldn't want to be associated with the c***ts enabling/actively encouraging a 21st century holocaust.
Quote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 09:18:01 AMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Hardly anti semitic. Why wouldn't they call it out and distanxe themselves
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on November 04, 2023, 08:38:31 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on November 03, 2023, 09:45:04 PMIt is thoroughly depressing itchy and it doesn't look like it's going to stop. What does it take to stop it? That is also a frightening question tbh. The power Israel seem to wield over the "western world" is appalling.
You think about various things in history and think ah they couldn't happen now as the eyes of the world are on everything these days. This shows you it doesn't matter one jot.
Some absolutely stomach turning scenes coming out of Gaza on Twitter. Things no one should have to suffer or see, particularly when there are children involved. And it is particularly sickening of Israel to hide behind anti-Semitism and it's supporters play the anti-Semitic card at every opportunity when criticised. Regardless of race, creed or religion wrong is wrong and it should be called out for what it is.
Antisemitism is a defensive tool designed for vulnerable Jews . Israel is a predator that hides behind antisemitism
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 04, 2023, 09:57:09 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 09:18:01 AMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Hardly anti semitic. Why wouldn't they call it out and distanxe themselves
They can if they choose to, like everyone else.
Singling Jewish people out, assigning collective responsibly and requirements for them to speak out because they are Jewish is anti semtic. Don't conflat all Jewish people with Zionist, Israel and their enablers.
Why would a Jewish person in Texas for example with no association to Israel be any more responsible to speak out than his Christian neighbour.
Is boycotting Jews such as Rachel Riley who act as private PR for Israel antisemitic ?
Brolly seems to be losing his mind
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 02:06:32 PMIs boycotting Jews such as Rachel Riley who act as private PR for Israel antisemitic ?
Yes, so stop watching countdown
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 02:06:32 PMIs boycotting Jews such as Rachel Riley who act as private PR for Israel antisemitic ?
No it's not unless you are boycotting it just because she is a Jew.
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 04, 2023, 02:09:03 PMBrolly seems to be losing his mind
Losing his mind? By posting for ceasefire and calling out Israel atrocities. What a bizarre description.
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 02:06:32 PMIs boycotting Jews such as Rachel Riley who act as private PR for Israel antisemitic ?
She's a bad bastard.
Brolly at least let his "I may be Irish but I'm not Stupid" 3rd Cousin in Law Joe have it. Time for rest of country and politicians to do the same. He has the power to stop the slaughter of innocents and he's doing the opposite. It won't be forgotten.
The Daily Telegraph has a headline "Israel refuses ceasefire. It only has to lose once to be annihilated". This is narcissistic projection
For most of the Irish people posting about this, most Jewish people in the States are extremely Liberal and would actually have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians.
Many Hasidic Jews are actually anti Zionist (The guys with the black hats and curly hair)
Don't conflate Judaism with Zionism
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/article-770757
The White House will be bursting on St Patrick's Day with hangers on and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Brolly is among them, although the secret service probably have him blocked now .
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2023, 05:00:24 PMFor most of the Irish people posting about this, most Jewish people in the States are extremely Liberal and would actually have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians.
Many Hasidic Jews are actually anti Zionist (The guys with the black hats and curly hair)
Don't conflate Judaism with Zionism
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/article-770757
I can honestly say I have never made a post or comment critical of "Jews" on this topic. My disgust is directed at the government of Israel and their Zionist supporters.
I've seen many Jews online protesting, none more so than in the USA. Unfortunately their voices are drowned out by a corrupt media
Quote from: whitey on November 04, 2023, 05:00:24 PMFor most of the Irish people posting about this, most Jewish people in the States are extremely Liberal and would actually have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians.
Many Hasidic Jews are actually anti Zionist (The guys with the black hats and curly hair)
Don't conflate Judaism with Zionism
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/article-770757
Don't back up a point about Judaism with the Jerusalem Post
the situation with Jews and Zionism is very nuanced.
Older Jews such as Maureen Lipman tend to be very Zionist
Rich Jews tend to be Zionist
Certain hasidic Jews, certain liberal Jews and most young Jews are anti Zionist
Ordinary Jews may be either
Zionists control almost all of the major Jewish Orgs including AIPAC, the ADL, the British Board of Deputies.
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 06:18:58 PMQuote from: whitey on November 04, 2023, 05:00:24 PMFor most of the Irish people posting about this, most Jewish people in the States are extremely Liberal and would actually have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians.
Many Hasidic Jews are actually anti Zionist (The guys with the black hats and curly hair)
Don't conflate Judaism with Zionism
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/article-770757
Don't back up a point about Judaism with the Jerusalem Post
the situation with Jews and Zionism is very nuanced.
Older Jews such as Maureen Lipman tend to be very Zionist
Rich Jews tend to be Zionist
Certain hasidic Jews, certain liberal Jews and most young Jews are anti Zionist
Ordinary Jews may be either
Zionists control almost all of the major Jewish Orgs including AIPAC, the ADL, the British Board of Deputies.
My sincerest apologies for not sourcing the info from an acceptable source
This is Directly from the horses mouth
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/10/30/wire-grand-central-action/
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 09:18:01 AMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Using the word Jew is not anti semitic and this is always the problem with these discussions. Any criticism is automatically anti Semitic. Israel is a Jewish state. FACT! It's a genocide by Jews on Muslims.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 11:27:52 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 04, 2023, 09:57:09 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 09:18:01 AMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Hardly anti semitic. Why wouldn't they call it out and distanxe themselves
They can if they choose to, like everyone else.
Singling Jewish people out, assigning collective responsibly and requirements for them to speak out because they are Jewish is anti semtic. Don't conflat all Jewish people with Zionist, Israel and their enablers.
Why would a Jewish person in Texas for example with no association to Israel be any more responsible to speak out than his Christian neighbour.
Israel is the Jewish homeland. Jews in Texas should f**king speak out. This is the goddam f**king problem.
Just like Muslims should speak out against ISIS or Hamas.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 09:18:01 AMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Apologies I forgot you were the only authority on Middle Eastern politics on this board.
Quote from: trailer on November 04, 2023, 06:53:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 09:18:01 AMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Apologies I forgot you were the only authority on Middle Eastern politics on this board.
In fairness he said
"Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/02/israel-hamas-ceasefire-gaza-reader-poll/
'Israel only has to lose once to be annihilated – a ceasefire is out of the question'
Majority of Telegraph readers reject calls for a ceasefire in the escalating Israel-Hamas conflict
Quote from: Sportacus on November 04, 2023, 05:17:53 PMThe White House will be bursting on St Patrick's Day with hangers on and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Brolly is among them, although the secret service probably have him blocked now .
Saint Patrick's Day 20124 will feel very different and not just because the club finals are played in January.
Biden is really 2 faced. The Ballina Joe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPvYNR1UQI
and the Genocide Joe.https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1711861750939685366
Thst Rachel Riley need catch a grip of herself, her twitter ridiculous.
https://twitter.com/DrMadsGilbert/status/1720857373558861851
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1720845234135765305
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 07:52:20 PMQuote from: Sportacus on November 04, 2023, 05:17:53 PMThe White House will be bursting on St Patrick's Day with hangers on and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Brolly is among them, although the secret service probably have him blocked now .
Saint Patrick's Day 20124 will feel very different and not just because the club finals are played in January.
Biden is really 2 faced. The Ballina Joe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPvYNR1UQI
and the Genocide Joe.https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1711861750939685366
https://x.com/jimfitzpatrick/status/1718355915198386260?s=46&t=upCstAqzkTQY5JtOIziaYg
Quote from: weareros on November 04, 2023, 08:21:56 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 07:52:20 PMQuote from: Sportacus on November 04, 2023, 05:17:53 PMThe White House will be bursting on St Patrick's Day with hangers on and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Brolly is among them, although the secret service probably have him blocked now .
Saint Patrick's Day 20124 will feel very different and not just because the club finals are played in January.
Biden is really 2 faced. The Ballina Joe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPvYNR1UQI
and the Genocide Joe.https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1711861750939685366
https://x.com/jimfitzpatrick/status/1718355915198386260?s=46&t=upCstAqzkTQY5JtOIziaYg
Israeli Ambassador an invited guest at the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis today.
Quote from: Snapchap on November 04, 2023, 08:27:27 PMQuote from: weareros on November 04, 2023, 08:21:56 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 07:52:20 PMQuote from: Sportacus on November 04, 2023, 05:17:53 PMThe White House will be bursting on St Patrick's Day with hangers on and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Brolly is among them, although the secret service probably have him blocked now .
Saint Patrick's Day 20124 will feel very different and not just because the club finals are played in January.
Biden is really 2 faced. The Ballina Joe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPvYNR1UQI
and the Genocide Joe.https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1711861750939685366
https://x.com/jimfitzpatrick/status/1718355915198386260?s=46&t=upCstAqzkTQY5JtOIziaYg
Israeli Ambassador an invited guest at the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis today.
Just shows you, Micheal Martin is the worst type of person you could ever come across. A total snake.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 04, 2023, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 02:06:32 PMIs boycotting Jews such as Rachel Riley who act as private PR for Israel antisemitic ?
She's a bad bastard.
bad bitch surely, has turned off all replies so her tweets as well
Quote from: Canada-Goose on November 05, 2023, 10:18:10 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 04, 2023, 03:09:00 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 04, 2023, 02:06:32 PMIs boycotting Jews such as Rachel Riley who act as private PR for Israel antisemitic ?
She's a bad bastard.
bad bitch surely, has turned off all replies so her tweets as well
Who put such a black heart in such a fine body
She lies about babies being beheaded. She is odious
I'm confused as to why people are actually on her social media, are you not promoting her?
History will remember the bastards who carried this out and the bastards who enabled it.
Quote from: trailer on November 04, 2023, 06:44:00 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 09:18:01 AMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Using the word Jew is not anti semitic and this is always the problem with these discussions. Any criticism is automatically anti Semitic. Israel is a Jewish state. FACT! It's a genocide by Jews on Muslims.
Israel is a Jewish state but all Jewish people aren't Israeli... why is that so hard for you to understand.
You undermine any criticism of Israel by blaming Jews (collectively) and it is anti semitic.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 05, 2023, 01:07:38 PMQuote from: trailer on November 04, 2023, 06:44:00 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 09:18:01 AMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Using the word Jew is not anti semitic and this is always the problem with these discussions. Any criticism is automatically anti Semitic. Israel is a Jewish state. FACT! It's a genocide by Jews on Muslims.
Israel is a Jewish state but all Jewish people aren't Israeli... why is that so hard for you to understand.
You undermine any criticism of Israel by blaming Jews (collectively) and it is anti semitic.
I blaming some people who are Jewish as they're using their Jewish heritage and suffering as a reason to kill children.
That's not Anti Semetic. I am not blaming all Jews. But all Jews need to take a stand against this.
Quote from: trailer on November 05, 2023, 01:35:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 05, 2023, 01:07:38 PMQuote from: trailer on November 04, 2023, 06:44:00 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 04, 2023, 09:18:01 AMQuote from: trailer on November 03, 2023, 10:48:29 PMThe issue here are the right wing fundamentalists Jews (hats and ringlets) who Netanyahu is chief of. **** needs to be in The Hague. Ordinary everyday Jews need to start calling this out.
Maith thú to SF for getting on the right side of this. We all need to pull together to call this out.
the problem is anyone who supports the Israeli approach for the last 75 years plus.
This is an anti semitic post and not for the first time trailer. Conflating all Jews with Israel and assigning responsibly to all jews for israel is anti semitic.
Jews have no responsibly to call out Israel, like Muslims have no responsibility to call out ISIS.
Everyone needs to call out genocide, race or religion don't matter.
Using the word Jew is not anti semitic and this is always the problem with these discussions. Any criticism is automatically anti Semitic. Israel is a Jewish state. FACT! It's a genocide by Jews on Muslims.
Israel is a Jewish state but all Jewish people aren't Israeli... why is that so hard for you to understand.
You undermine any criticism of Israel by blaming Jews (collectively) and it is anti semitic.
I blaming some people who are Jewish as they're using their Jewish heritage and suffering as a reason to kill children.
That's not Anti Semetic. I am not blaming all Jews. But all Jews need to take a stand against this.
you are singling out Jews again with that last statement. everyone (regardless of religion or race) needs to call it out, its genocide...
when you use criticise Jews for the actions of Israel its anti semitic, you have done that on multiple occasions. you might not mean all jews but that's is what you wrote.
as I and others (and even you) have said anti semitic can and is used to silence criticism of zionists and Israel.
when you use the language you do, you are making anti semitic remarks, even if you aren't anti semitic or don't mean it the way it's received.
A Jew in the Israeli Government suggested nuking Gaza.
This is where the Jewish State is at.
As much as I decry the actions of Israel, I'd leave Judaism out of it. I'd have Judaism any day before Christianity and Islam. Jews as a people don't try to convert and enforce their religion on anyone. Christians and Muslims have been responsible for more evil atrocities in the name of their fairy tale Gods and prophets. The Jews and Native Americans helped Ireland during the famine. Our Christian neighbours many times tried to wipe us off the face of the earth. And Christians and Muslims have tried to wipe the Jewish people off the face of the earth. There's two billion Christians and 2 billion Of Islamic faith in the world. There's only 16 million Jews. We should be careful how we frame our arguments. Culturally we have more in common with Jewish culture particularly in the literary world. None of that absolves the state of Israel but nuance often gets lost in these arguments.
the problem is that Israel was settled by traumatised Jews who survived WW2 and did not integrate.
Jews who went to the US did integrate. Us Jews are normal. Israeli Jews have group malignant narcissism.
Granted it doesn't take much to meet the definition of being an anti-semite these days, but there are posters here who have been spewing anti-semetic dung for years, or posting nod and a wink posts and been heartily offended when called out. You're safe for a while lads, anti-semitism is back in vogue.
If you spouted some of the stuff about blacks that Seafoid has here over the years about jews you would be permanently banned
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 05, 2023, 03:31:42 PMIf you spouted some of the stuff about blacks that Seafoid has here over the years about jews you would be permanently banned
Israeli Jews run apartheid. That is morally degraded.
Israel is a f**king disgrace.
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 05, 2023, 03:31:42 PMIf you spouted some of the stuff about blacks that Seafoid has here over the years about jews you would be permanently banned
Correct. In a simalr vein, the use of the word Jew on here sometimes feels like it carries the same invective as the use of certain racist words.
If you go to the West Bank you see roads blocked and Stars of David spray painted on the Concrete blocks blocking the road The soldiers who are in Gaza are mostly religious Jews. Apartbeid in Israel is worse than Jim Crow racism in the US or South African apartheid because the white people didn't bomb hospitals or use white phosphorous against black people or kill 10,000 people in 3 weeks .
This is all run by Israeli Jews and it's totally racist.
Some Jews are vulnerable. Israeli Jews are predators.
It is a mess.
Remember the kidnapped 8 year old girl whose father Thomas Hand said this ...
Irish dad says 'death was a blessing' for daughter, 8, as being kidnapped alive by Hamas is worse. Thomas Hand, who is originally from Dublin in Ireland, said "death was a blessing" for his eight-year-old child Emily rather than being held captive in Gaza.
Well it is believed she is alive ..
https://twitter.com/TomClonan/status/1721233554334536126?t=FCz0amO2Jp6mkpu8dKRNLg&s=19
I wonder what her father will think if she comes back in one piece with no harm done to her other than the trauma of course of being kidnapped. I wonder does he still wish her to be dead!
What a weird, weird post.
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 05, 2023, 08:05:53 PMWhat a weird, weird post.
Weird how? The father is so brain washed he thought his daughter better dead than alive such was the depravity of Hamas. However so far I've seen two old women returned unharmed and even a female Israeli soldier returned who was immediately told not to talk. It doesn't fit with the monsters behind the wall narrative you see.
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:16:26 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 05, 2023, 08:05:53 PMWhat a weird, weird post.
Weird how? The father is so brain washed he thought his daughter better dead than alive such was the depravity of Hamas. However so far I've seen two old women returned unharmed and even a female Israeli soldier returned who was immediately told not to talk. It doesn't fit with the monsters behind the wall narrative you see.
I think there is more than enough evidence of Hamas being animals on the 7 October
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 05, 2023, 08:24:46 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:16:26 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 05, 2023, 08:05:53 PMWhat a weird, weird post.
Weird how? The father is so brain washed he thought his daughter better dead than alive such was the depravity of Hamas. However so far I've seen two old women returned unharmed and even a female Israeli soldier returned who was immediately told not to talk. It doesn't fit with the monsters behind the wall narrative you see.
I think there is more than enough evidence of Hamas being animals on the 7 October
how would describe the israelis?
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 05, 2023, 08:24:46 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:16:26 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 05, 2023, 08:05:53 PMWhat a weird, weird post.
Weird how? The father is so brain washed he thought his daughter better dead than alive such was the depravity of Hamas. However so far I've seen two old women returned unharmed and even a female Israeli soldier returned who was immediately told not to talk. It doesn't fit with the monsters behind the wall narrative you see.
I think there is more than enough evidence of Hamas being animals on the 7 October
Half of which has been disproven by now.
I think there is enough doubt out there about the 7th October to make me think that when truth comes out it will look a lot different than what the story is out there at the moment. That being said I'm sure Hamas did kill civilians, I'm also sure Israel did too by using tanks to blast houses with hostages in them (from a statement from a hostage)
Israel doesn't care about hostages, civilians or Hamas. They have one mission, the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians into Egypt and a land grab on Gaza. That's what it's all about
Quote from: Itchy on November 05, 2023, 08:43:59 PMI think there is enough doubt out there about the 7th October to make me think that when truth comes out it will look a lot different than what the story is out there at the moment. That being said I'm sure Hamas did kill civilians, I'm also sure Israel did too by using tanks to blast houses with hostages in them (from a statement from a hostage)
Israel doesn't care about hostages, civilians or Hamas. They have one mission, the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians into Egypt and a land grab on Gaza. That's what it's all about
Hamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
WTF :o
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Israel bombs hospitals and burns people alive at 800 degrees with white phosphorous. Rampage is a non sequitur.
Israel declares a North gaza and South Gaza, won't be long until there is no Gaza, no stopping them now
If there is a terrorist group whose primary aim to to kill people of your faith and you have information on where their leadership will be, is it acceptable to bomb that location and risk civilian casualties?
If it is wrong at a Shankill road chip shop it is wrong at a hospital in Gaza.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
A definite WTF post
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 09:42:46 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Do you honestly believe everything you've written there?
Yes. What did I say that was incorrect?
Isreal is a big truck speeding along the road who does not care who is run over. But that is not quite the same as going on the road deliberately driving up on the footpath to kill anyone you see.
I am very critical of Israel, but there is a lot of loose language here which over simplifies something that is nuanced. And posting WTF is not a useful contribution.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 05, 2023, 09:56:33 PMIf there is a terrorist group whose primary aim to to kill people of your faith and you have information on where their leadership will be, is it acceptable to bomb that location and risk civilian casualties?
If it is wrong at a Shankill road chip shop it is wrong at a hospital in Gaza.
Absolutely it is wrong. But it is not the same as starting at one end of the Shankhill road and going into every house and killing everyone you meet, apart from those you take hostage, of course.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Didn't do it for no reason. And wtf have Israel been doing the last month? Come on?
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Didn't do it for no reason. And wtf have Israel been doing the last month? Come on?
They have been killing people in their way, as I said.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 10:24:22 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Didn't do it for no reason. And wtf have Israel been doing the last month? Come on?
They have been killing people in their way, as I said.
Seems like a rampage killing innocents to me. Maybe I'm antisemitic or something
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Did you type that in the Israeli Embassy?
Ironically, I don't think you have a moral compass.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 10:03:57 PMQuote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on November 05, 2023, 09:42:46 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Do you honestly believe everything you've written there?
Yes. What did I say that was incorrect?
Isreal is a big truck speeding along the road who does not care who is run over. But that is not quite the same as going on the road deliberately driving up on the footpath to kill anyone you see.
I am very critical of Israel, but there is a lot of loose language here which over simplifies something that is nuanced. And posting WTF is not a useful contribution.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 05, 2023, 09:56:33 PMIf there is a terrorist group whose primary aim to to kill people of your faith and you have information on where their leadership will be, is it acceptable to bomb that location and risk civilian casualties?
If it is wrong at a Shankill road chip shop it is wrong at a hospital in Gaza.
Absolutely it is wrong. But it is not the same as starting at one end of the Shankhill road and going into every house and killing everyone you meet, apart from those you take hostage, of course.
Did Israel do nothing wrong prior to 7th Oct to contribute to what is happening now? There is a lot of loose language being used I'd agree. Part of that is implying the narrative started on 7th Oct. To try and justify Israel's response is impossible in my eyes. Their response is evil and should be called out as such st all times. Just as Hama's actions were on 7th Oct.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere nea bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
I've seen some wtf stuff over this past month but this is another level, unreal.
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 05, 2023, 11:21:46 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere nea bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
I've seen some wtf stuff over this past month but this is another level, unreal.
Lots of WTF comments. As I said, if I said something incorrect then refute it.
Do you not think that there is a difference between a willingness to kill people in your way and going around hunting men, women and children to kill them? Perhaps you do not see a difference, which would concern me.
Is the suggestion that Israel are "only" killing those in their way, whereas Hamas are "going around hunting" for victims?
Also, what would count as a "rampage killing civilian men, women and children" if we haven't yet had that?
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 11:46:13 PMQuote from: SHEEDY on November 05, 2023, 11:21:46 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere nea bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
I've seen some wtf stuff over this past month but this is another level, unreal.
Lots of WTF comments. As I said, if I said something incorrect then refute it.
Do you not think that there is a difference between a willingness to kill people in your way and going around hunting men, women and children to kill them? Perhaps you do not see a difference, which would concern me.
Do you believe that Israel's actions are solely to get at Hamas? Genuinely? I'd be more concerned by that level of gullibility tbh.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 05, 2023, 11:49:33 PMIs the suggestion that Israel are "only" killing those in their way, whereas Hamas are "going around hunting" for victims?
Exactly. Both evil, but not the same.
QuoteAlso, what would count as a "rampage killing civilian men, women and children" if we haven't yet had that?
Just bombing everything, from one end to the other and then sending in ground troops to shoot anyone left. That is what Hamas did and why I objected to people saying that it wasn't that bad. What is left?
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 05, 2023, 11:52:36 PMDo you believe that Israel's actions are solely to get at Hamas? Genuinely? I'd be more concerned by that level of gullibility tbh.
No, I do not believe that. But they still fall short of the depravity of Hamas all the same.
If bombing refugee camps and hospitals in the very part of Gaza where Israel told people to go in order to be safe doesn't count as a rampage killing men, women and children, I honestly don't know what to say.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 06, 2023, 12:02:00 AMIf bombing refugee camps and hospitals in the very part of Gaza where Israel told people to go in order to be safe doesn't count as a rampage killing men, women and children, I honestly don't know what to say.
Perhaps you should actually think about it. The disgusting death toll results from the greater capacity of the Israelis, with that capacity they could do much worse.
There are conflicts where the blame lies almost all on one side, this one has a long history and neither side has a clean sheet.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 05, 2023, 11:52:36 PMDo you believe that Israel's actions are solely to get at Hamas? Genuinely? I'd be more concerned by that level of gullibility tbh.
No, I do not believe that. But they still fall short of the depravity of Hamas all the same.
[/quote]
I'd find your view extremely concerning. What has Hamas done that is a higher level of depravity than bombing hospitals, indiscriminate killing of men, women and children, cutting power and water to thousands of innocent people, forcing the residents of Gaza to fled from their homes.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2023, 12:05:55 AMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 06, 2023, 12:02:00 AMIf bombing refugee camps and hospitals in the very part of Gaza where Israel told people to go in order to be safe doesn't count as a rampage killing men, women and children, I honestly don't know what to say.
Perhaps you should actually think about it. The disgusting death toll results from the greater capacity of the Israelis, with that capacity they could do much worse.
There are conflicts where the blame lies almost all on one side, this one has a long history and neither side has a clean sheet.
If what you've done is think about it, I want no part of that.
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 05, 2023, 11:21:46 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere nea bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
I've seen some wtf stuff over this past month but this is another level, unreal.
Read on, he's only getting warmed up by the looks of it
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2023, 12:09:38 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on November 05, 2023, 11:52:36 PMDo you believe that Israel's actions are solely to get at Hamas? Genuinely? I'd be more concerned by that level of gullibility tbh.
No, I do not believe that. But they still fall short of the depravity of Hamas all the same.
I'd find your view extremely concerning. What has Hamas done that is a higher level of depravity than bombing hospitals, indiscriminate killing of men, women and children, cutting power and water to thousands of innocent people, forcing the residents of Gaza to fled from their homes.
[/quote]
It is not indiscriminate killing, it is targeted killing.
Hamas killing was truly indiscriminate.
All of this is obvious, and none of it is a reason not to oppose to Israeli violence, but it absolutely is a reason not to declare the Hamas atrocity as not that bad.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 06, 2023, 12:11:43 AMRead on, he's only getting warmed up by the looks of it
I note that you did not refute my point, only express surprise that I made it.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2023, 12:28:50 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2023, 12:09:38 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on November 05, 2023, 11:52:36 PMDo you believe that Israel's actions are solely to get at Hamas? Genuinely? I'd be more concerned by that level of gullibility tbh.
No, I do not believe that. But they still fall short of the depravity of Hamas all the same.
I'd find your view extremely concerning. What has Hamas done that is a higher level of depravity than bombing hospitals, indiscriminate killing of men, women and children, cutting power and water to thousands of innocent people, forcing the residents of Gaza to fled from their homes.
It is not indiscriminate killing, it is
targeted killing. Hamas killing was truly indiscriminate.
All of this is obvious, and none of it is a reason not to oppose to Israeli violence, but it absolutely is a reason not to declare the Hamas atrocity as not that bad.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 06, 2023, 12:11:43 AMRead on, he's only getting warmed up by the looks of it
I note that you did not refute my point, only express surprise that I made it.
[/quote]
Targeted at hospitals and civilians. Do you understand the word indiscriminate? They aren't treating the innocent any different than Hamas fighters.
Anyway, it's late. I think you're morale compass is seriously f**ked up so happy to leave it there.
Scott Ritter - the aims of the US and Israel are not the same.
The international community is turning its back on Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV_HsiJg8Io
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 10:24:22 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Didn't do it for no reason. And wtf have Israel been doing the last month? Come on?
They have been killing people in their way, as I said.
No they f**king haven't been "killing people in their way". They've been deliberately terrorising and targetting the entire Gaza population. If you are stupid enough to belive that Israel is only targeting Hammas figures and that any civilians killed just "got in the way", then I've a big f**king bridge to Scotland to sell you.
Christ but it's scary to think there are people as gullible as you walking among us.
Chris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2023, 06:03:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Unlike you seaf, Max doesn't provide a link to support his quotes re the doctors, so I have no idea if they are real or not. But he works for the Grayzone, which receives significant funding from China and Russia, and has regular anti-Ukraine, anti-Taiwan, anti-Hong Kong pieces. So I'd say you could find more reliable sources.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:30:05 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 06, 2023, 06:03:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Unlike you seaf, Max doesn't provide a link to support his quotes re the doctors, so I have no idea if they are real or not. But he works for the Grayzone, which receives significant funding from China and Russia, and has regular anti-Ukraine, anti-Taiwan, anti-Hong Kong pieces. So I'd say you could find more reliable sources.
so post this after posting about british intelligence without any qualification.
here might be a better source,
https://twitter.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1721076636047507677?t=xfeGeZq4A_aW64bEny4JNQ&s=19
same source 500 more slaughtered.
https://twitter.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1721443189461070061?t=Iph_r4W53FCbjvywbX5ycQ&s=19
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
More than a whiff of WMD about that to be honest.
Quote from: Snapchap on November 06, 2023, 07:49:58 AMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 10:24:22 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Didn't do it for no reason. And wtf have Israel been doing the last month? Come on?
They have been killing people in their way, as I said.
No they f**king haven't been "killing people in their way". They've been deliberately terrorising and targetting the entire Gaza population. If you are stupid enough to belive that Israel is only targeting Hammas figures and that any civilians killed just "got in the way", then I've a big f**king bridge to Scotland to sell you.
Christ but it's scary to think there are people as gullible as you walking among us.
Nobody believes that Israel aren't killing people, but at this point in time they are not trying to kill everyone all the same.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AMQuote from: Snapchap on November 06, 2023, 07:49:58 AMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 10:24:22 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Didn't do it for no reason. And wtf have Israel been doing the last month? Come on?
They have been killing people in their way, as I said.
No they f**king haven't been "killing people in their way". They've been deliberately terrorising and targetting the entire Gaza population. If you are stupid enough to belive that Israel is only targeting Hammas figures and that any civilians killed just "got in the way", then I've a big f**king bridge to Scotland to sell you.
Christ but it's scary to think there are people as gullible as you walking among us.
Nobody believes that Israel aren't killing people, but at this point in time they are not trying to kill everyone all the same.
Yeah sure just bomb the shite out of the place, might be a few survive anyway
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AMQuote from: Snapchap on November 06, 2023, 07:49:58 AMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 10:24:22 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Didn't do it for no reason. And wtf have Israel been doing the last month? Come on?
They have been killing people in their way, as I said.
No they f**king haven't been "killing people in their way". They've been deliberately terrorising and targetting the entire Gaza population. If you are stupid enough to belive that Israel is only targeting Hammas figures and that any civilians killed just "got in the way", then I've a big f**king bridge to Scotland to sell you.
Christ but it's scary to think there are people as gullible as you walking among us.
Nobody believes that Israel aren't killing people, but at this point in time they are not trying to kill everyone all the same.
their bombs are sent with love. You are arguing genocide is not as bad as Hamas actions on Oct 7.
Are you arguing that Israel's actions are not as depraved because the Hamas murders were close up with knives and guns (the only weapons available) rather than from behind a computer screen using the best weapons available (courtesy of Uncle Sam).
Neither had any concern for the innocence of the victims, and neither, in recent statements have shown an inclination to stop.
Don't name the dead children.
Don't remember the dead children.
Don't think of the dead children.
Don't say: 'dead children
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2023, 09:25:20 AMQuote from: Snapchap on November 06, 2023, 07:49:58 AMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 10:24:22 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:44 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 05, 2023, 09:22:34 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 05, 2023, 08:54:25 PMHamas did wrong of course, but 1. It was nowhere near as bad as is being made out. 2. They didn't randomly do it for no reason out of the blue, they did nothing Israel hasnt been doing for years.
Don't minimise it. Neither Israel nor pretty much anyone else have gone on a rampage killing civilian men, women and children. While clearly they are both evil, there is a big difference between killing someone that is in your way and going around looking for someone to kill. If you do not realise this then your moral compass is arseways.
Didn't do it for no reason. And wtf have Israel been doing the last month? Come on?
They have been killing people in their way, as I said.
No they f**king haven't been "killing people in their way". They've been deliberately terrorising and targetting the entire Gaza population. If you are stupid enough to belive that Israel is only targeting Hammas figures and that any civilians killed just "got in the way", then I've a big f**king bridge to Scotland to sell you.
Christ but it's scary to think there are people as gullible as you walking among us.
Nobody believes that Israel aren't killing people, but at this point in time they are not trying to kill everyone all the same.
They are doing a much better job than Hamas of killing everyone. And that's no defence of Hamas. Your mental gymnastics to somehow try and imply that Israel's actions are in anyway less evil than Hamas's actions is crazy.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:30:05 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 06, 2023, 06:03:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Unlike you seaf, Max doesn't provide a link to support his quotes re the doctors, so I have no idea if they are real or not. But he works for the Grayzone, which receives significant funding from China and Russia, and has regular anti-Ukraine, anti-Taiwan, anti-Hong Kong pieces. So I'd say you could find more reliable sources.
Here it is in Hebrew
https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/17o7fqm/1000_israeli_doctors_demand_that_their_army_bomb/
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/israeli-rabbis-tell-netanyahu-that-israel-has-a-right-to-bomb-al-shifa-hospital-in-gaza/
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:30:05 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 06, 2023, 06:03:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Unlike you seaf, Max doesn't provide a link to support his quotes re the doctors, so I have no idea if they are real or not. But he works for the Grayzone, which receives significant funding from China and Russia, and has regular anti-Ukraine, anti-Taiwan, anti-Hong Kong pieces. So I'd say you could find more reliable sources.
so post this after posting about british intelligence without any qualification.
here might be a better source,
https://twitter.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1721076636047507677?t=xfeGeZq4A_aW64bEny4JNQ&s=19
Ah php, your posts are usually reasonable but that's a great example of false equivalence!
Everyone here knows Dunphy, most know Johns. Starmer confirmed he was briefed by British Intelligence, didn't give any specifics. So on this discussion board I'm just putting it out there that it might be a reason for Starmer's position, which is a surprise to many. Whether people here want to believe British Intelligence is an entirely different matter!
I see you agree that there are better sources than Grayzone, cheers
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 10:31:22 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:30:05 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 06, 2023, 06:03:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Unlike you seaf, Max doesn't provide a link to support his quotes re the doctors, so I have no idea if they are real or not. But he works for the Grayzone, which receives significant funding from China and Russia, and has regular anti-Ukraine, anti-Taiwan, anti-Hong Kong pieces. So I'd say you could find more reliable sources.
so post this after posting about british intelligence without any qualification.
here might be a better source,
https://twitter.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1721076636047507677?t=xfeGeZq4A_aW64bEny4JNQ&s=19
Ah php, your posts are usually reasonable but that's a great example of false equivalence!
Everyone here knows Dunphy, most know Johns. Starmer confirmed he was briefed by British Intelligence, didn't give any specifics. So on this discussion board I'm just putting it out there that it might be a reason for Starmer's position, which is a surprise to many. Whether people here want to believe British Intelligence is an entirely different matter!
I see you agree that there are better sources than Grayzone, cheers
Talk about an oxymoron.
Sure them boys wouldn't lie would they?
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 06, 2023, 10:40:41 AMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 10:31:22 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:30:05 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 06, 2023, 06:03:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Unlike you seaf, Max doesn't provide a link to support his quotes re the doctors, so I have no idea if they are real or not. But he works for the Grayzone, which receives significant funding from China and Russia, and has regular anti-Ukraine, anti-Taiwan, anti-Hong Kong pieces. So I'd say you could find more reliable sources.
so post this after posting about british intelligence without any qualification.
here might be a better source,
https://twitter.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1721076636047507677?t=xfeGeZq4A_aW64bEny4JNQ&s=19
Ah php, your posts are usually reasonable but that's a great example of false equivalence!
Everyone here knows Dunphy, most know Johns. Starmer confirmed he was briefed by British Intelligence, didn't give any specifics. So on this discussion board I'm just putting it out there that it might be a reason for Starmer's position, which is a surprise to many. Whether people here want to believe British Intelligence is an entirely different matter!
I see you agree that there are better sources than Grayzone, cheers
Talk about an oxymoron.
Sure them boys wouldn't lie would they?
Like Hamas, IDF, CIA, even Joe Brolly ;D , they don't lie all the time, but when it suits them they have no fear of it.
Obviously we have no idea what they told Starmer and what, if any, evidence they showed him.
Now that 10 or 12 Labour councillors have resigned over Starmer's position, it'll be interesting to see if he holds firm, or gives more of an explanation as to why, or if he changes tack.
Starmer is a liar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv7sZoQkkns
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2023, 12:41:35 AMQuote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2023, 12:28:50 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2023, 12:09:38 AMQuote from: trueblue1234 on November 05, 2023, 11:52:36 PMDo you believe that Israel's actions are solely to get at Hamas? Genuinely? I'd be more concerned by that level of gullibility tbh.
No, I do not believe that. But they still fall short of the depravity of Hamas all the same.
I'd find your view extremely concerning. What has Hamas done that is a higher level of depravity than bombing hospitals, indiscriminate killing of men, women and children, cutting power and water to thousands of innocent people, forcing the residents of Gaza to fled from their homes.
It is not indiscriminate killing, it is targeted killing.
Hamas killing was truly indiscriminate.
All of this is obvious, and none of it is a reason not to oppose to Israeli violence, but it absolutely is a reason not to declare the Hamas atrocity as not that bad.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 06, 2023, 12:11:43 AMRead on, he's only getting warmed up by the looks of it
I note that you did not refute my point, only express surprise that I made it.
Targeted at hospitals and civilians. Do you understand the word indiscriminate? They aren't treating the innocent any different than Hamas fighters.
Anyway, it's late. I think you're morale compass is seriously f**ked up so happy to leave it there.
[/quote]Bombing hospitals is a war crime and is not targeted.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 10:48:21 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 06, 2023, 10:40:41 AMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 10:31:22 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:30:05 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 06, 2023, 06:03:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Unlike you seaf, Max doesn't provide a link to support his quotes re the doctors, so I have no idea if they are real or not. But he works for the Grayzone, which receives significant funding from China and Russia, and has regular anti-Ukraine, anti-Taiwan, anti-Hong Kong pieces. So I'd say you could find more reliable sources.
so post this after posting about british intelligence without any qualification.
here might be a better source,
https://twitter.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1721076636047507677?t=xfeGeZq4A_aW64bEny4JNQ&s=19
Ah php, your posts are usually reasonable but that's a great example of false equivalence!
Everyone here knows Dunphy, most know Johns. Starmer confirmed he was briefed by British Intelligence, didn't give any specifics. So on this discussion board I'm just putting it out there that it might be a reason for Starmer's position, which is a surprise to many. Whether people here want to believe British Intelligence is an entirely different matter!
I see you agree that there are better sources than Grayzone, cheers
Talk about an oxymoron.
Sure them boys wouldn't lie would they?
Like Hamas, IDF, CIA, even Joe Brolly ;D , they don't lie all the time, but when it suits them they have no fear of it.
Obviously we have no idea what they told Starmer and what, if any, evidence they showed him.
Now that 10 or 12 Labour councillors have resigned over Starmer's position, it'll be interesting to see if he holds firm, or gives more of an explanation as to why, or if he changes tack.
The end up will be the fecking Tories get back in.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 10:31:22 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:30:05 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 06, 2023, 06:03:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Unlike you seaf, Max doesn't provide a link to support his quotes re the doctors, so I have no idea if they are real or not. But he works for the Grayzone, which receives significant funding from China and Russia, and has regular anti-Ukraine, anti-Taiwan, anti-Hong Kong pieces. So I'd say you could find more reliable sources.
so post this after posting about british intelligence without any qualification.
here might be a better source,
https://twitter.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1721076636047507677?t=xfeGeZq4A_aW64bEny4JNQ&s=19
Ah php, your posts are usually reasonable but that's a great example of false equivalence!
Everyone here knows Dunphy, most know Johns. Starmer confirmed he was briefed by British Intelligence, didn't give any specifics. So on this discussion board I'm just putting it out there that it might be a reason for Starmer's position, which is a surprise to many. Whether people here want to believe British Intelligence is an entirely different matter!
I see you agree that there are better sources than Grayzone, cheers
firstly, i shouldn't have said better source. I took your bias into account and provided an alternative. the source is the 100 doctors and 50 rabbis, not the link I posted or max, they are just reporting it.
Media is bias. we all have some level of it. You took time to warn the board about Max and his influences and did not see the need to do for the British Intelligence.
The information itself makes no sense to me only to add confusion and distract away from a genocide taking place.
I don't think Hound was making any claims based on what British Intelligence said or did not say, only that Starmer may have been influenced by what he was told by them.
If Starmer takes a strong line on condemning Israel whilst giving Hamas a by-ball and any sort of Islamic attack occurs anywhere in Europe the right wing press will rip him to shreds with claims that he supports whatever event occurred.
I know, we should let the Israelis bomb the shite out of the innocent civilians on the off chance some Islamic group tries something in Europe. That'll show them
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 06, 2023, 11:42:18 AMI know, we should let the Israelis bomb the shite out of the innocent civilians on the off chance some Islamic group tries something in Europe. That'll show them
Israel has already murdered 4000 children.
Nobody in the Middle East buys the line that Hamas = Terrorists.
The Lebanese border has just kicked off. 2 lebanese kids and their mother were killed by Israel yesterday.
Zionism has probably peaked.
Is there any chance of this properly escalating to a world scale? Iran/Russia making moves against Israel and the wankers in the west defending them?
Is it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
Quote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
But again why is there so much Jewish pull in America, where Irish pull(though split between Dem/Rep, has never had a overly great influence with Ireland, giving the massive % of people with Irish background.
Quote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Let's not ignore what happened prior to 7th Oct. That is a view being pushed. Should Hamas' actions on 7th be justified by what has gone before? Did Isreal push and push for decades to get this reaction from Hamas to justify their current actions. In which case we are were we are due to Isreal's years of provocation of Palestine.
Regardless, there is no justification for Isreal's current actions in my eyes. And they should not be given justification due to the horrendous actions of Oct 7th.
Quite compelling that there are relatives of holocaust survivors out protesting against Israeli genocide in solidarity with the Palestinians.
Scott Ritter says
US no longer aligned with Israel on Middle East
Arabs are furious with genocide
Israeli army is incompetent
Obama says only solution is a Palestinian State
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2023, 12:25:14 PMBut again why is there so much Jewish pull in America, where Irish pull(though split between Dem/Rep, has never had a overly great influence with Ireland, giving the massive % of people with Irish background.
The Irishman threw away the money and kept the packet, the Zionist kept the money and threw away the packet
Zionism has had a lazer focus since WWII
The problem didn't start on Oct 7.
The siege goes back to 2008 and the occupation to 1967.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2023, 12:44:03 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Let's not ignore what happened prior to 7th Oct. That is a view being pushed. Should Hamas' actions on 7th be justified by what has gone before? Did Isreal push and push for decades to get this reaction from Hamas to justify their current actions. In which case we are were we are due to Isreal's years of provocation of Palestine.
Regardless, there is no justification for Isreal's current actions in my eyes. And they should not be given justification due to the horrendous actions of Oct 7th.
Pretty simple answer to that, they are not justified no.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 01:08:17 PMQuote from: trueblue1234 on November 06, 2023, 12:44:03 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Let's not ignore what happened prior to 7th Oct. That is a view being pushed. Should Hamas' actions on 7th be justified by what has gone before? Did Isreal push and push for decades to get this reaction from Hamas to justify their current actions. In which case we are were we are due to Isreal's years of provocation of Palestine.
Regardless, there is no justification for Isreal's current actions in my eyes. And they should not be given justification due to the horrendous actions of Oct 7th.
Pretty simple answer to that, they are not justified no.
And nor are Israel actions. And they need to be stopped.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Another person who swallows the Zionist bullshit that this all started a month ago
The Oct 7th attack is only the latest in a VERY long list of reasons why 'we are where we currently are'
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2023, 12:25:14 PMBut again why is there so much Jewish pull in America, where Irish pull(though split between Dem/Rep, has never had a overly great influence with Ireland, giving the massive % of people with Irish background.
Follow the Lobbyists and who owns the US media!
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMwe are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack
Wow!! Imagine that!! So these crazy Palestinians launched this attack for no apparent reason what-so-ever? On poor peace loving Israel?? Well I am shocked. I just assumed there was a context or a history or some sort of grievance behind it but no. Now I know that the Middle East conflict only began last month.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMGetting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
As you said in the very first post on this topic "no doubt retribution will be swift & brutal"
And you didn't need to be a genius to figure it out. Hamas knew damn well that the murder, torture, mutilation and kidnapping of well over a thousand innocent men, women, pensioners, children would have this response. And that the west wouldn't stop Israel.
Netanyahu and his leadership team should be facing war crimes charges for his abhorrent response, but unlikely to happen. At least there are small signs that the US and the west might finally pull the handbrake on the Israelis, but hasn't happened yet.
Quote from: Snapchap on November 06, 2023, 01:58:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMwe are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack
Wow!! Imagine that!! So these crazy Palestinians launched this attack for no apparent reason what-so-ever? On poor peace loving Israel?? Well I am shocked. I just assumed there was a context or a history or some sort of grievance behind it but no. Now I know that the Middle East conflict only began last month.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 02:01:10 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMGetting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
As you said in the very first post on this topic "no doubt retribution will be swift & brutal"
And you didn't need to be a genius to figure it out. Hamas knew damn well that the murder, torture, mutilation and kidnapping of well over a thousand innocent men, women, pensioners, children would have this response. And that the west wouldn't stop Israel.
Netanyahu and his leadership team should be facing war crimes charges for his abhorrent response, but unlikely to happen. At least there are small signs that the US and the west might finally pull the handbrake on the Israelis, but hasn't happened yet.
Hamas knew the world would just stand by watch a genocide and more ethic cleansing..
Can I asked why you chose 4 words to describe Hamas and provided numbers but chose to use 1 (less descriptive) and did not provide the numbers when describing Israel.
Quote from: Franko on November 06, 2023, 01:39:15 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Another person who swallows the Zionist bullshit that this all started a month ago
The Oct 7th attack is only the latest in a VERY long list of reasons why 'we are where we currently are'
Yes, immediate cause and root causes. I'm sure everyone is aware of the distinction. The Hamas attack on 7th October is the immediate cause.
Quote from: general_lee on November 06, 2023, 12:56:30 PMQuite compelling that there are relatives of holocaust survivors out protesting against Israeli genocide in solidarity with the Palestinians.
Not all (non Israeli) Jews are pro-Israel. Miriam Margoyles has repeatedly called out Israel numerous times for their treatment of Palestinians. Maybe it takes non-Israeli Jews to think outside the box instead of those in Israel who are brainwashed by their psychopathic overlords.
Israel's actions will only increase the animosity towards ordinary Jews worldwide though. Even if they are pro-Palestine
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 02:01:10 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMGetting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
As you said in the very first post on this topic "no doubt retribution will be swift & brutal"
And you didn't need to be a genius to figure it out. Hamas knew damn well that the murder, torture, mutilation and kidnapping of well over a thousand innocent men, women, pensioners, children would have this response. And that the west wouldn't stop Israel.
Netanyahu and his leadership team should be facing war crimes charges for his abhorrent response, but unlikely to happen. At least there are small signs that the US and the west might finally pull the handbrake on the Israelis, but hasn't happened yet.
I've said it before, There's more chance of him getting the nobel peace prize.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 02:45:27 PMQuote from: Franko on November 06, 2023, 01:39:15 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Another person who swallows the Zionist bullshit that this all started a month ago
The Oct 7th attack is only the latest in a VERY long list of reasons why 'we are where we currently are'
Yes, immediate cause and root causes. I'm sure everyone is aware of the distinction. The Hamas attack on 7th October is the immediate cause.
I dunno. I'd guess if you lived for one week in Gaza prior to the Oct 7th attack, you'd probably say your living conditions were the immediate cause of anything that followed.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 06, 2023, 02:07:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on November 06, 2023, 01:58:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMwe are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack
Wow!! Imagine that!! So these crazy Palestinians launched this attack for no apparent reason what-so-ever? On poor peace loving Israel?? Well I am shocked. I just assumed there was a context or a history or some sort of grievance behind it but no. Now I know that the Middle East conflict only began last month.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 02:01:10 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMGetting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
As you said in the very first post on this topic "no doubt retribution will be swift & brutal"
And you didn't need to be a genius to figure it out. Hamas knew damn well that the murder, torture, mutilation and kidnapping of well over a thousand innocent men, women, pensioners, children would have this response. And that the west wouldn't stop Israel.
Netanyahu and his leadership team should be facing war crimes charges for his abhorrent response, but unlikely to happen. At least there are small signs that the US and the west might finally pull the handbrake on the Israelis, but hasn't happened yet.
Hamas knew the world would just stand by watch a genocide and more ethic cleansing..
Can I asked why you chose 4 words to describe Hamas and provided numbers but chose to use 1 (less descriptive) and did not provide the numbers when describing Israel.
Hamas lured Israel into a trap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxOBOhRECoo
The Israelis took out the solar panels on top of Shifa hospital which has cut operations by half and lead to infected wounds . The hospital has no electricity and no equipment to treat white phosphorous wounds. Israel is satanic.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 10:48:21 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 06, 2023, 10:40:41 AMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 10:31:22 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 06, 2023, 08:37:36 AMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:30:05 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 06, 2023, 06:03:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1721352933441151477
Israel has destroyed and/or bombed every university in Gaza and bombed multiple hospitals, now including the pediatric oncology ward of Al-Rantisi. Meanwhile, a "senior security source" in the Israeli govt has claimed 20,000 – or 1% of Gaza's entire population – has been killed.
But it's not enough for Israeli civil society: In the past week, 100 Israeli doctors, including pediatricians, have signed a letter urging more attacks on hospitals, while 50 Israeli rabbis have issued a letter giving halakhic approval to bomb medical facilities in Gaza. "the residents of Gaza" have "brought their annihilation upon themselves," the Israeli doctors proclaim.
Unlike you seaf, Max doesn't provide a link to support his quotes re the doctors, so I have no idea if they are real or not. But he works for the Grayzone, which receives significant funding from China and Russia, and has regular anti-Ukraine, anti-Taiwan, anti-Hong Kong pieces. So I'd say you could find more reliable sources.
so post this after posting about british intelligence without any qualification.
here might be a better source,
https://twitter.com/GhassanAbuSitt1/status/1721076636047507677?t=xfeGeZq4A_aW64bEny4JNQ&s=19
Ah php, your posts are usually reasonable but that's a great example of false equivalence!
Everyone here knows Dunphy, most know Johns. Starmer confirmed he was briefed by British Intelligence, didn't give any specifics. So on this discussion board I'm just putting it out there that it might be a reason for Starmer's position, which is a surprise to many. Whether people here want to believe British Intelligence is an entirely different matter!
I see you agree that there are better sources than Grayzone, cheers
Talk about an oxymoron.
Sure them boys wouldn't lie would they?
Like Hamas, IDF, CIA, even Joe Brolly ;D , they don't lie all the time, but when it suits them they have no fear of it.
Obviously we have no idea what they told Starmer and what, if any, evidence they showed him.
Now that 10 or 12 Labour councillors have resigned over Starmer's position, it'll be interesting to see if he holds firm, or gives more of an explanation as to why, or if he changes tack.
Will this mess up Labour's chance at the next GE?
Tories could slip in again by default.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
I think Starmer is following a similar line to Blair.
Blair wanted to win elections, he decided the way to do this was "New Labour". "New Labour" just meant thinking what would "Old" Labour do and do the opposite. Old Labour would have opposed the Iraq war therefore New Labour will support it.
Starmer is just doing the opposite of what Jeremy Corbyn would have done. Jeremy Corbyn would have opposed just about everything that Israel did therefore Starmer will support just about everything that Israel does.
Labour and the Democrats are both desperate to not give their right wing opponents anything they can use against them in the next election on this issue.
The UK election will probably have huge abstentions and result in a hung parliament.
Quote from: dec on November 06, 2023, 07:47:29 PMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
I think Starmer is following a similar line to Blair.
Blair wanted to win elections, he decided the way to do this was "New Labour". "New Labour" just meant thinking what would "Old" Labour do and do the opposite. Old Labour would have opposed the Iraq war therefore New Labour will support it.
Starmer is just doing the opposite of what Jeremy Corbyn would have done. Jeremy Corbyn would have opposed just about everything that Israel did therefore Starmer will support just about everything that Israel does.
Labour and the Democrats are both desperate to not give their right wing opponents anything they can use against them in the next election on this issue.
Jeremy Corbyn is a good man. Too good for the Brits to be honest so they tried to smear and ruin him. Starmar is a pathetic individual and a traitor to labours socialist core. His stance on Israel is just gut wrenching.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 06, 2023, 02:07:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on November 06, 2023, 01:58:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMwe are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack
Wow!! Imagine that!! So these crazy Palestinians launched this attack for no apparent reason what-so-ever? On poor peace loving Israel?? Well I am shocked. I just assumed there was a context or a history or some sort of grievance behind it but no. Now I know that the Middle East conflict only began last month.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 02:01:10 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMGetting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
As you said in the very first post on this topic "no doubt retribution will be swift & brutal"
And you didn't need to be a genius to figure it out. Hamas knew damn well that the murder, torture, mutilation and kidnapping of well over a thousand innocent men, women, pensioners, children would have this response. And that the west wouldn't stop Israel.
Netanyahu and his leadership team should be facing war crimes charges for his abhorrent response, but unlikely to happen. At least there are small signs that the US and the west might finally pull the handbrake on the Israelis, but hasn't happened yet.
Hamas knew the world would just stand by watch a genocide and more ethic cleansing..
Can I asked why you chose 4 words to describe Hamas and provided numbers but chose to use 1 (less descriptive) and did not provide the numbers when describing Israel.
I have condemned both Hamas and Israel numerous times on this thread.
You have not condemned the Hamas massacre once in your dozens of posts. Can I ask why?
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 09:44:00 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 06, 2023, 02:07:01 PMQuote from: Snapchap on November 06, 2023, 01:58:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMwe are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack
Wow!! Imagine that!! So these crazy Palestinians launched this attack for no apparent reason what-so-ever? On poor peace loving Israel?? Well I am shocked. I just assumed there was a context or a history or some sort of grievance behind it but no. Now I know that the Middle East conflict only began last month.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 02:01:10 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMGetting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
As you said in the very first post on this topic "no doubt retribution will be swift & brutal"
And you didn't need to be a genius to figure it out. Hamas knew damn well that the murder, torture, mutilation and kidnapping of well over a thousand innocent men, women, pensioners, children would have this response. And that the west wouldn't stop Israel.
Netanyahu and his leadership team should be facing war crimes charges for his abhorrent response, but unlikely to happen. At least there are small signs that the US and the west might finally pull the handbrake on the Israelis, but hasn't happened yet.
Hamas knew the world would just stand by watch a genocide and more ethic cleansing..
Can I asked why you chose 4 words to describe Hamas and provided numbers but chose to use 1 (less descriptive) and did not provide the numbers when describing Israel.
I have condemned both Hamas and Israel numerous times on this thread.
You have not condemned the Hamas massacre once in your dozens of posts. Can I ask why?
you didn't answer my question.
you need to re read my posts rather that lie about what I've posted.
do you condemn Hamas, like every interviewer to any Palestinian interviewee for a month...
So that's a no? May I ask? Or sticking with your initial comment that the Hamas massacre on men, women, children and pensioners was 'heroic'?
Quote from: Itchy on November 06, 2023, 07:59:09 PMQuote from: dec on November 06, 2023, 07:47:29 PMQuote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 08:15:12 AMChris Johns (on the Dunphy podcast) had a take on why Keir Starmer is following the government line on not calling for an outright ceasefire. He said it's because he's been briefed by British Intelligence about planned attacks on major Western cities, and he speculated that a couple may already have been thwarted, but that if there is an attack, the West will respond hard.
I think Starmer is following a similar line to Blair.
Blair wanted to win elections, he decided the way to do this was "New Labour". "New Labour" just meant thinking what would "Old" Labour do and do the opposite. Old Labour would have opposed the Iraq war therefore New Labour will support it.
Starmer is just doing the opposite of what Jeremy Corbyn would have done. Jeremy Corbyn would have opposed just about everything that Israel did therefore Starmer will support just about everything that Israel does.
Labour and the Democrats are both desperate to not give their right wing opponents anything they can use against them in the next election on this issue.
Jeremy Corbyn is a good man. Too good for the Brits to be honest so they tried to smear and ruin him. Starmar is a pathetic individual and a traitor to labours socialist core. His stance on Israel is just gut wrenching.
Absolutely. The UK media are the scum of the earth. Starmer vs Rushi, Trump vs Biden. Would you like shot in the left knee or right knee.
Quote from: Hound on November 06, 2023, 09:50:39 PMSo that's a no? May I ask? Or sticking with your initial comment that the Hamas massacre on men, women, children and pensioners was 'heroic'?
Keep digging...keep re reading my posts and stop lying...
you didn't answer my question and you have doubled down about me not condemning Hamas, which is an outright lie and then you cherry pick a post out of context I never said killing civilians was heroic.
.
I think I lock myself outta this thread, some lads on here def. Not wise!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 06, 2023, 10:07:30 PMI think I lock myself outta this thread, some lads on here def. Not wise!
💯, some need to get a bit of fresh air.
Barnaby Raine, from what I've heard from him speaks very well on Palestine/Israel.
Appears to me that the Netenyahu strategy is to keep her lit until multiple countries (those demanding a ceasefire) as part of ceasefire negotiations, agree to take everyone left alive in Gaza at that point as refugees.
David McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.
Quote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 02:47:02 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 06, 2023, 12:56:30 PMQuite compelling that there are relatives of holocaust survivors out protesting against Israeli genocide in solidarity with the Palestinians.
Not all (non Israeli) Jews are pro-Israel. Miriam Margoyles has repeatedly called out Israel numerous times for their treatment of Palestinians. Maybe it takes non-Israeli Jews to think outside the box instead of those in Israel who are brainwashed by their psychopathic overlords.
Israel's actions will only increase the animosity towards ordinary Jews worldwide though. Even if they are pro-Palestine
Exactly.
Sadly, as a result of the Zionists that shout 'anti Semite' at every criticism of Israel, many people are conflating Jewish / Zionist
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2023, 12:13:50 AMDavid McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.
It's more than that. russia has a naval base at Tartus in Syria and supported Assad in the Syrian civil war. Assad is shia, so is the Iraqi leadership and so is Iran. There is a Shia Arc going from the Russian naval base to the middle of Afghanistan. Supported by Russia.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2023, 12:13:50 AMDavid McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.
I think its even more nuanced than that in Europe in particular, look at the UK, France ect, big Pro Palestinian demonstrations but their Governments are very much pro Israel..
As much as this is a big issue now it won't have any real impact come polling time.
A lot of the EU countries have a big guilt cloud hanging over then due to the Holocaust and are happy to turn a blind eye to the Israeli slaughter of the innocents.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 07, 2023, 08:53:22 AMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2023, 12:13:50 AMDavid McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.
I think its even more nuanced than that in Europe in particular, look at the UK, France ect, big Pro Palestinian demonstrations but their Governments are very much pro Israel..
As much as this is a big issue now it won't have any real impact come polling time.
A lot of the EU countries have a big guilt cloud hanging over then due to the Holocaust and are happy to turn a blind eye to the Israeli slaughter of the innocents.
I am not sure about this in the UK - I think this will make a significant impact on Labour. It is pretty much showing that Starmer is not fit for purpose.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 07, 2023, 08:59:25 AMQuote from: johnnycool on November 07, 2023, 08:53:22 AMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2023, 12:13:50 AMDavid McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.
I think its even more nuanced than that in Europe in particular, look at the UK, France ect, big Pro Palestinian demonstrations but their Governments are very much pro Israel..
As much as this is a big issue now it won't have any real impact come polling time.
A lot of the EU countries have a big guilt cloud hanging over then due to the Holocaust and are happy to turn a blind eye to the Israeli slaughter of the innocents.
I am not sure about this in the UK - I think this will make a significant impact on Labour. It is pretty much showing that Starmer is not fit for purpose.
He's a pragmatist and once he went to Murdocks Summer garden party in London along with a few others in their cabinet he was in his pocket. He also lacks backbone I might add.
How they think that the Sun newspaper can hold that much sway on the English electorate (with the honourable exception of Merseyside) beggars belief.
I am not sure about back pocket but I agree about the backbone. He doesn't know what audience to play to at all.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 07, 2023, 09:08:17 AMI am not sure about back pocket but I agree about the backbone. He doesn't know what audience to play to at all.
That is his major issue at the moment, he is in the position currently that the next GE is basically his to lose. So he is trying to not say anything or take sides on any divisive issue in the lead up to that GE.
It remains to be seen if and when he gets the PM job if he still remains as wishy washy. Labour got burnt by the Corbyn years, regardless of what you make of his views he proved basically unelectable. So KS is wanting to avoid this at all costs.
Yeah that election is not about being the most electable but the least unelectable. Any faux pas he makes will be jumped on to make him look less electable. He just appears to be drifting along trying not to get "cancelled".
Quote from: NAG1 on November 07, 2023, 09:26:23 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on November 07, 2023, 09:08:17 AMI am not sure about back pocket but I agree about the backbone. He doesn't know what audience to play to at all.
That is his major issue at the moment, he is in the position currently that the next GE is basically his to lose. So he is trying to not say anything or take sides on any divisive issue in the lead up to that GE.
It remains to be seen if and when he gets the PM job if he still remains as wishy washy. Labour got burnt by the Corbyn years, regardless of what you make of his views he proved basically unelectable. So KS is wanting to avoid this at all costs.
Corbyn was made unelectable by the media via the antisemitism slur. They didn't want any change to the status quo.
The last 4 years have been hell
for Brits between Covid , Brexit and inflation. The Tories are extremist. Corbyn was not.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 06, 2023, 11:31:55 PMAppears to me that the Netenyahu strategy is to keep her lit until multiple countries (those demanding a ceasefire) as part of ceasefire negotiations, agree to take everyone left alive in Gaza at that point as refugees.
It seems that the Yanks are giving Israel a limited amount of time to get the Hamas job done.
While it's no laughing matter, I did find this passage somewhat amusing from Fintan O'Toole today:
At the United Nations general assembly, countries are seated in alphabetical order, which means that Ireland usually finds itself stuck between Iran and Iraq on the one side and Israel on the other. It is not the worst place to be right now: holding open a space between competing fanaticisms.
In 1957, when Israel invaded the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula during the Suez crisis, our minister for external affairs Liam Cosgrave made a speech at the UN calling on "the Jews and the Arabs to settle their differences according to Christian principles". Conor Cruise O'Brien, who was then a senior Irish diplomat, told me years later that he had suggested to Cosgrave that this was not likely to go down very well with either the Jews or the Arabs. "No", Cosgrave replied, "but it will go down very well in Dún Laoghaire Rathdown."
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2023, 08:44:14 AMQuote from: Eamonnca1 on November 07, 2023, 12:13:50 AMDavid McWilliams podcast had an interesting take. Russia and China have no dog in the Israel/Palestine fight, but it's a great wedge issue that divides the west. Some EU countries are in the Israel camp, some are in the Palestine camp. The Irish see the Brits in the Israelis, the yanks see Al Queda in Hamas, etc.. America's backing of the Israeli cause keeps the US well stocked with enemies. Russia's happy to be friends with Iran who in turn are happy to back their proxies in Hizbollah, Hams and IJ.
It's more than that. russia has a naval base at Tartus in Syria and supported Assad in the Syrian civil war. Assad is shia, so is the Iraqi leadership and so is Iran. There is a Shia Arc going from the Russian naval base to the middle of Afghanistan. Supported by Russia.
An interesting observation.
The Shias were always seen as the moderates. Much of the extremist intra faith terrorism is typically Sunni on Shia but the Sunnis get a by ball as Saudi has so much oil.
It is also interesting that the Sunni Muslims of Gaza get more support from the Shia Hezbollah than Sunni Egypt or Saudi Arabia.
Gaza is dirt poor but valuable to the Shia because it borders southern Israel while Hezbollah covers Northern Israel.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 02:45:27 PMQuote from: Franko on November 06, 2023, 01:39:15 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Another person who swallows the Zionist bullshit that this all started a month ago
The Oct 7th attack is only the latest in a VERY long list of reasons why 'we are where we currently are'
Yes, immediate cause and root causes. I'm sure everyone is aware of the distinction. The Hamas attack on 7th October is the immediate cause.
Like I say, it's only the immediate cause if your clock starts on exactly the 7th Oct.
Quote from: Franko on November 07, 2023, 03:16:56 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 02:45:27 PMQuote from: Franko on November 06, 2023, 01:39:15 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Another person who swallows the Zionist bullshit that this all started a month ago
The Oct 7th attack is only the latest in a VERY long list of reasons why 'we are where we currently are'
Yes, immediate cause and root causes. I'm sure everyone is aware of the distinction. The Hamas attack on 7th October is the immediate cause.
Like I say, it's only the immediate cause if your clock starts on exactly the 7th Oct.
That's fairly idiotic there chief.
Hamas didn't wake up on 7th October snd attack for no reason...
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 07, 2023, 03:39:03 PMHamas didn't wake up on 7th October snd attack for no reason...
Not the point whatsoever, by any historian's technical definition it's the immediate cause, no amount of pedantry / sophistry / semantic rabbit holing changes that.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 07, 2023, 03:33:09 PMQuote from: Franko on November 07, 2023, 03:16:56 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 02:45:27 PMQuote from: Franko on November 06, 2023, 01:39:15 PMQuote from: bennydorano on November 06, 2023, 12:35:53 PMQuote from: tiempo on November 06, 2023, 12:15:36 PMQuote from: AustinPowers on November 06, 2023, 12:02:39 PMIs it just me or is this Israeli bombing these supposed tunnels smell exactly like the US bombing the crap out of mountains in Afghanistan, because that's where Bin Laden was hiding, in a Dr Evil-style hollowed out lair?
Ach sure, if we happen to kill 5,000 Palestinians at the same time , sure as long as we got the tunnel
I honestly think it's at the stage now that Israel always wanted. Total obliteration. There will be nothing left. If Palestinians can leave, they should. Palestinians will be scattered to the four winds , and Israel will take over what's left. There will be nothing for Palestinians to come back to. As sad as it is , leave the warmongering b******s to it , and rest of the world shun anything to do with Israel.
100% this is what Netanyahu always wanted, his name up in lights as a strong man with a death count which means his name will be etched in history, good bad or indifferent he doesn't give a f**k. This has also been cynically timed in proximity to the American election cycle to render POTUS impotent, its the culmination of a lifetimes work for the sc**bag. Its also the culmination of 50+ years of American tolerance and enabling of Zionism, but who'd be surprised at that, sure didn't the US recruit high ranking Nazis after WWII.
End of the day this is a shit show and not beyond the realms of possibility that one or more press the big red nuclear button, certainly expect Netanyahu and Putin would have an erection for it, and others too. Nuclear deterrent my ass, you build a stockpile and there's men who dream of using it.
Shame on all the cowards over the years who got it to this point, the Zionists have it fairly stitched up at this point, the level of political cover for genocide is lunacy, they played the long game and won by the looks of it
Getting lost among the atrocities - but we are where we currently are because Hamas launched a terrorist attack, Israel are doing exactly what Hamas expected & hoped they would do after the attack. The Arab world coming to their aid is the only part of their plan not happening atm.
Another person who swallows the Zionist bullshit that this all started a month ago
The Oct 7th attack is only the latest in a VERY long list of reasons why 'we are where we currently are'
Yes, immediate cause and root causes. I'm sure everyone is aware of the distinction. The Hamas attack on 7th October is the immediate cause.
Like I say, it's only the immediate cause if your clock starts on exactly the 7th Oct.
That's fairly idiotic there chief.
Not even a tiny bit.
If you think the Israeli bombardment of Gaza has solely been caused by the 7th October attacks then you've been indoctrinated
It's neither the root cause OR the immediate cause
It's only being used as a justification for something the Israelis have been dying to do for decades
You are continually missing the point I've made, it's not a Political point I've made, it's a technical point. The same way the German invasion of Poland was the immediate cause of WW2, with any God's amount of root causes, the Hamas attack on Israel was the immediate cause of the current situation. So keep your indoctrination nonsense for somebody who gives a f**k what you think.
Seriously pedantic. Whatever technical terms you want to use, Israel are 100% at fault for this, enabled by spineless/evil Western leaders.
The one thing about this war is that no one is blameless, any death is unnecessary..
What Isreal have been doing, unchecked, for 70 odd years (for me) can't be just based on the guilt of the holocaust, must be intelligence they provide, their position in the Middle East. The West must want that foothold.
If this carnage isn't stopped soon the we are fucked
The 10,000 or so deaths at the minute will unfortunately count for nothing
The flatting of Gazza will count for nothing
The millions that will be displaced or end up living here, in Ireland, will count for nothing. They'll get persecuted by the locals here but that's another story..
If the West doesn't step in soon, and force Israel to the negotiating table then the far reaching effects of it will hit every major city of those countries that facilitated it.
Crazed radical fanatical Isis don't need too many excuses to lad on your doorstep
President von der Leyen welcomes H.M. King Abdullah of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, announces significant support package
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_5583
f**king hell,some seriously overt bribey vibes there.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2023, 06:11:29 PMThe one thing about this war is that no one is blameless, any death is unnecessary..
What Isreal have been doing, unchecked, for 70 odd years (for me) can't be just based on the guilt of the holocaust, must be intelligence they provide, their position in the Middle East. The West must want that foothold.
If this carnage isn't stopped soon the we are fucked
The 10,000 or so deaths at the minute will unfortunately count for nothing
The flatting of Gazza will count for nothing
The millions that will be displaced or end up living here, in Ireland, will count for nothing. They'll get persecuted by the locals here but that's another story..
If the West doesn't step in soon, and force Israel to the negotiating table then the far reaching effects of it will hit every major city of those countries that facilitated it.
Crazed radical fanatical Isis don't need too many excuses to lad on your doorstep
ISIS were ran from Gaza already by Palestinians.
https://twitter.com/Angelo4justice3/status/1721823190551535791?t=iKe3muRVc3yPd1ifUwAV0g&s=19
angelo calls it deportation but it is ethic cleansing...
I'm not talking about Palestinian or even Hamas, you failed to see why other groups will use this war to further their own needs.
Nor am I siding with anyone in my posts.
Watched a documentary and these jihad groups (not in Palestine before you have a fit) were brainwashing kids on how the west is becoming and linking Israel and acts committed in Gazza, this was after the last invasion 10 years ago
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2023, 07:50:45 PMI'm not talking about Palestinian or even Hamas, you failed to see why other groups will use this war to further their own needs.
Nor am I siding with anyone in my posts.
Watched a documentary and these jihad groups (not in Palestine before you have a fit) were brainwashing kids on how the west is becoming and linking Israel and acts committed in Gazza, this was after the last invasion 10 years ago
I think other groups already have enough reasons they can use to brainwash disadvantaged kids, but I'm sure this will be used too.
but i would point out has there already been some examples of muslims being attacked and murdered by people radicalised, probably based on Israeli dehumanising
Muslims have been attacked world wide, especially after 9/11...
I can't see how this particular war will finish in the benefit for anyone
Shouldn't discount this being a potential factor as to why so many of the wests leaders are in lockstep with Israel
Quote from: theskull1 on November 07, 2023, 09:53:07 PMShouldn't discount this being a potential factor as to why so many of the wests leaders are in lockstep with Israel
Interesting. Epstein while approach was to give sick fucks what they wanted while getting information from them.
The Indo making sure it's got the top story of the day. What a pathetic rag...
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-snubs-israeli-ambassador-and-diplomats-despite-pledge-to-talk-to-everybody/a86326777.html
Quote from: theskull1 on November 07, 2023, 09:53:07 PMShouldn't discount this being a potential factor as to why so many of the wests leaders are in lockstep with Israel
Be under no doubt Mossad were behind Epstein and definitely Maxwell, there's family history there with her.
Clinton and many more were compromised as Epstein filmed everything, he'd a lot of the US establishment by the short and curlies..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2023, 07:50:45 PMI'm not talking about Palestinian or even Hamas, you failed to see why other groups will use this war to further their own needs.
Nor am I siding with anyone in my posts.
Watched a documentary and these jihad groups (not in Palestine before you have a fit) were brainwashing kids on how the west is becoming and linking Israel and acts committed in Gazza, this was after the last invasion 10 years ago
The West has been behind, particularly the US and their proxies of the French and British much of the bloodshed in the middle East for decades from the Shah of Iran, the subsequent Iran/Iraq war, the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, later to morph into ISIS and supporters of the Taliban, providing Saddam Hussain, their great friend, poison gas which he used on the Kurds, to then his overthrown when he wanted to sell oil but not in US Dollars as he was getting fúcked over with it's price, right up to the overthrow of Gadaffi in Libya after he fúcked out UK and French Oil companies, who are now back in pumping the oil out like the western shysters they are now that they bombed him out of existence.
You'd wonder how the people of this area believe the West to be the great evil because we are.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 08, 2023, 08:30:04 AMYou'd wonder how the people of this area believe the West to be the great evil because we are.
There is no doubt that oil and other issues have encouraged a lot of interference in the region.
However, it is also the case that every place is a basket case which suppresses a lot of their own people without any help from the West.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 10:12:04 AMQuote from: johnnycool on November 08, 2023, 08:30:04 AMYou'd wonder how the people of this area believe the West to be the great evil because we are.
There is no doubt that oil and other issues have encouraged a lot of interference in the region.
However, it is also the case that every place is a basket case which suppresses a lot of their own people without any help from the West.
but which is the root cause and which is the immediate cause? Surely that's the important question !!!
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 10:12:04 AMQuote from: johnnycool on November 08, 2023, 08:30:04 AMYou'd wonder how the people of this area believe the West to be the great evil because we are.
There is no doubt that oil and other issues have encouraged a lot of interference in the region.
However, it is also the case that every place is a basket case which suppresses a lot of their own people without any help from the West.
No doubt the tribal nature of these places would have their own internal conflicts but Western interference has only extrapolated the issues in this region and lead to lots more bloodshed.
Trying to create a Jewish nation state in the middle of Arab Palestine because of an agreement written in WW1 London because some very rich Zionists in the Rothschilds think it's their right based on a 2000 plus year old book of dubious origins is a whole new level of interference though.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 08, 2023, 10:44:21 AMQuote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 10:12:04 AMQuote from: johnnycool on November 08, 2023, 08:30:04 AMYou'd wonder how the people of this area believe the West to be the great evil because we are.
There is no doubt that oil and other issues have encouraged a lot of interference in the region.
However, it is also the case that every place is a basket case which suppresses a lot of their own people without any help from the West.
but which is the root cause and which is the immediate cause? Surely that's the important question !!!
But is that a political point or a technical point you're making? 🙄
Sorry for pointing out an actual fact in making a point, on a discussion board, on a thread full of groupthink and a serious lack of verifiable facts.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 08, 2023, 10:59:22 AMQuote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 10:12:04 AMQuote from: johnnycool on November 08, 2023, 08:30:04 AMYou'd wonder how the people of this area believe the West to be the great evil because we are.
There is no doubt that oil and other issues have encouraged a lot of interference in the region.
However, it is also the case that every place is a basket case which suppresses a lot of their own people without any help from the West.
No doubt the tribal nature of these places would have their own internal conflicts but Western interference has only extrapolated the issues in this region and lead to lots more bloodshed.
Trying to create a Jewish nation state in the middle of Arab Palestine because of an agreement written in WW1 London because some very rich Zionists in the Rothschilds think it's their right based on a 2000 plus year old book of dubious origins is a whole new level of interference though.
Isreal became a reality not because of a Zionist imposed exodus to a promised land. It was European anti Semitics even in Britain pre World War Two. Therefore the Balfour declaration was born and Britain wasn't alone. Prior to the Nazis final solution there was a broad European narrative in the aristocratic world called "the solution". This prevailed and when the Jewish people of Europe moved to Palestine in their millions after the holocaust it was because places like USA and Britain didn't want them so they persisted in creating this new state. My long winded point is the Israel problem was born out of European anti semitics but Jesus the way the Zionist movement has behaved since they got there is disgusting.
Have Seafoid & Roger Waters ever been seen in a room at the same time ? :o
Hamas lured Israel into a trap.
They knew Israel would tear the arse out of it.
There was no Israel in 1947. It was not a natural country. It was established by a UN vote..
No EU country was. Even Liverpool FC is more historically credible than Israel.
This means that international opinion means more for Israel. It is a source of fragility.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 07, 2023, 09:53:07 PMShouldn't discount this being a potential factor as to why so many of the wests leaders are in lockstep with Israel
Everyone is afraid of them. Crispin Blunt spoke out and 2 days later he was accused of rape. They have dirt on most of the elite. This was Epstein and Maxwell's job.
In the US the GOP is beginning to question bipartisan support. Young people are turning away from Zionism and young US Jews want nothing to do with it . This is a big issue in swing states like Michigan.
So Epstein collected dirt on just about everyone with geopolitical power and that is a significant factor in the west's collective broad stance on the Palestinian-Israeli issue?
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2023, 02:30:42 PMSo Epstein collected dirt on just about everyone with geopolitical power and that is a significant factor in the west's collective broad stance on the Palestinian-Israeli issue?
That information became useful for him.. oh wait, how'd that go?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2023, 03:28:09 PMQuote from: J70 on November 08, 2023, 02:30:42 PMSo Epstein collected dirt on just about everyone with geopolitical power and that is a significant factor in the west's collective broad stance on the Palestinian-Israeli issue?
That information became useful for him.. oh wait, how'd that go?
Well at least he got to use his material on Trump to force the embassy switch to Jerusalem. With that, his work was done! ;D
Quote from: J70 on November 08, 2023, 02:30:42 PMSo Epstein collected dirt on just about everyone with geopolitical power and that is a significant factor in the west's collective broad stance on the Palestinian-Israeli issue?
Some dung spouted on this board and this is right at the pinnacle.
Quote from: trailer on November 08, 2023, 04:23:02 PMQuote from: J70 on November 08, 2023, 02:30:42 PMSo Epstein collected dirt on just about everyone with geopolitical power and that is a significant factor in the west's collective broad stance on the Palestinian-Israeli issue?
Some dung spouted on this board and this is right at the pinnacle.
Why was Crispin Blunt accused of rape several days after suggesting Israeli war crimes should be investigated by the ICC?
On Zionist influence - why was Corbyn replaced by a candidate acceptable to Israel?
Why does the Labour MP for Wigan, one of the poorest towns in England, work for Israel and not her poorest consituenTS?
Yeah, crazy to think those who'd want to have global influence might have kompromat in their toolbox to use when necessary.
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 10:12:04 AMQuote from: johnnycool on November 08, 2023, 08:30:04 AMYou'd wonder how the people of this area believe the West to be the great evil because we are.
There is no doubt that oil and other issues have encouraged a lot of interference in the region.
However, it is also the case that every place is a basket case which suppresses a lot of their own people without any help from the West.
https://twitter.com/OopsGuess/status/1719632963053457766?t=LsWxxvel9o_VuvTmxHzq6g&s=19
I cannot remember the exact percentage but isn't it something like 60% of Americans want a ceasefire and only 2% of politicians want a ceasefire.. I imagine the percentages are probably higher in european countries.
Are politicians in the west suppressing the will of the people, while Palestinians are murdered in their thousands.
That is the way the world has become in places like the uk anyway. Politicians firmly suppress the will of the people. Look at what way they are trying to curb protests. (On this and with many other things). I doubt they are alone in doing that.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2023, 09:38:47 PMThat is the way the world has become in places like the uk anyway. Politicians firmly suppress the will of the people. Look at what way they are trying to curb protests. (On this and with many other things). I doubt they are alone in doing that.
Yes, but the will of the people might well be that railway stations are not jammed up with protestors and roads are not blocked by oil loonies.
It's a lot more than just stop oil. Politicians are getting away with robbery and being very loose with the law. Any form of protest is being outlawed.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 08, 2023, 09:36:27 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 10:12:04 AMQuote from: johnnycool on November 08, 2023, 08:30:04 AMYou'd wonder how the people of this area believe the West to be the great evil because we are.
There is no doubt that oil and other issues have encouraged a lot of interference in the region.
However, it is also the case that every place is a basket case which suppresses a lot of their own people without any help from the West.
https://twitter.com/OopsGuess/status/1719632963053457766?t=LsWxxvel9o_VuvTmxHzq6g&s=19
I cannot remember the exact percentage but isn't it something like 60% of Americans want a ceasefire and only 2% of politicians want a ceasefire.. I imagine the percentages are probably higher in european countries.
Are politicians in the west suppressing the will of the people, while Palestinians are murdered in their thousands.
Yeah - of course! What did you expect!? Mind you "the will of the people" is probably a bit strong. I'd imagine most people aren't as exercised as you about this, in fairness. Nevertheless, it does get people more riled up than about Syria, or Rwanda, or other conflicts where a lot more people died than are dying now. Why is that? Genuine question: why do you care so much? It's a GAA board and you've not posted anything about GAA or anything else for years, but on this there's no stopping you!
Quote from: burdizzo on November 08, 2023, 11:18:50 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 08, 2023, 09:36:27 PMQuote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2023, 10:12:04 AMQuote from: johnnycool on November 08, 2023, 08:30:04 AMYou'd wonder how the people of this area believe the West to be the great evil because we are.
There is no doubt that oil and other issues have encouraged a lot of interference in the region.
However, it is also the case that every place is a basket case which suppresses a lot of their own people without any help from the West.
https://twitter.com/OopsGuess/status/1719632963053457766?t=LsWxxvel9o_VuvTmxHzq6g&s=19
I cannot remember the exact percentage but isn't it something like 60% of Americans want a ceasefire and only 2% of politicians want a ceasefire.. I imagine the percentages are probably higher in european countries.
Are politicians in the west suppressing the will of the people, while Palestinians are murdered in their thousands.
Yeah - of course! What did you expect!? Mind you "the will of the people" is probably a bit strong. I'd imagine most people aren't as exercised as you about this, in fairness. Nevertheless, it does get people more riled up than about Syria, or Rwanda, or other conflicts where a lot more people died than are dying now. Why is that? Genuine question: why do you care so much? It's a GAA board and you've not posted anything about GAA or anything else for years, but on this there's no stopping you!
Speaking of people excerised, what's got you so riled up about me posting in a topic I've an interest in. why does it bother you so much... to be clear, I've no actual interest in your answer.
And just to correct you I've posted about last years club final, and Ukraine thread.
since you are so interested in my posts I'm surprised you don't know the answers to your other questions..
"Riled up"? What are you on about? I'm actually a little bit bored w/ this thread, but it sort of baffles me as to why people care SO much about it. Far more people died in the war Syria, for example. Was that too complicated to understand? Yeah, I know there's lots of factors involved that stir people up a bit, but - Christ! - ye do bang on a bit!
Quote from: burdizzo on November 09, 2023, 12:10:48 AM"Riled up"? What are you on about? I'm actually a little bit bored w/ this thread, but it sort of baffles me as to why people care SO much about it. Far more people died in the war Syria, for example. Was that too complicated to understand? Yeah, I know there's lots of factors involved that stir people up a bit, but - Christ! - ye do bang on a bit!
More people died in absolute terms
But the war lasted over a decade - this one has been going for a month
In terms of statistics, and this is a crude one, but true nonetheless
Children are dying in Gaza at a rate of over 130x per day
In the Syrian conflict, the equivalent figure was 4x per day
Do you now understand why people might be getting more exercised about it? Or is it too complicated?
I don't think there should be a hierarchy in place for loss of life depending on where you are from. I don't know the figures for the first month of that war, it could be similar, also the ratio to under 18's in Gaza is far higher in such a condensed place in comparison to Syria.
I'd say that if 2 million Syrians lived in place the size of Gaza and were (are still) being bombed like the Israeli's are doing then the figures could be similar.
The point is some wars seem to have more attention on them and others people turn a blind eye or maybe pay it some lip service
The stats also crude reveals that no fewer than 230,224 civilians, including 30,007 children and 16,319 women (adult female), were killed at the hands of the parties to the conflict and controlling forces in Syria between March 2011 and March 2023
Just wonder if it's because we sort of consider Israel to be "western" and therefore hold them to western standards?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 01:27:34 PMI don't think there should be a hierarchy in place for loss of life depending on where you are from. I don't know the figures for the first month of that war, it could be similar, also the ratio to under 18's in Gaza is far higher in such a condensed place in comparison to Syria.
I'd say that if 2 million Syrians lived in place the size of Gaza and were (are still) being bombed like the Israeli's are doing then the figures could be similar.
The point is some wars seem to have more attention on them and others people turn a blind eye or maybe pay it some lip service
The stats also crude reveals that no fewer than 230,224 civilians, including 30,007 children and 16,319 women (adult female), were killed at the hands of the parties to the conflict and controlling forces in Syria between March 2011 and March 2023
Firstly, there's an army involved, but this is not a war.
War implies an equivalence which doesn't exist
My point is that one of the main reasons that people are getting so exercised about this is the sheer scale and relentlessness of the mass murder of innocent civilians and children especially
In my experience, most people posing the question in bold are following the Israeli playbook trying to play the antisemitism card. It's seldom a genuine question
Heaven forbid that people would get angry about carpet bombing civilians and the murder of thousands of innocent children
No, you must hate jews
Quote from: burdizzo on November 09, 2023, 01:45:55 PMJust wonder if it's because we sort of consider Israel to be "western" and therefore hold them to western standards?
Yes, it's because we perceive Israel as western due to the influx of European and American Jews that their lives are valued much higher than Palestinians, is that what you are asking?
In your experience? Is this from surveys or just chit chat at the pub?
The bit in bold was not a question, its natural for people to pay more attention to one thing over another, that has nothing to do with an imaginary playbook you feel people are buying.
16 million Jews worldwide, 0.2 in world population, not sure of the number of Zionists, but they have some clout about the place. As for anti-Semitism, I don't look at people based on where they are from, race, or religion, I wouldn't fall into that trap to be fair
HAMAS–the acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (Islamic Resistance Movement)is the largest and most capable militant group in the Palestinian territories
Hamas are at war with Israel, its not a fair war, its a massacre
It is not a war. It is a brutal occupation.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 09, 2023, 01:45:55 PMJust wonder if it's because we sort of consider Israel to be "western" and therefore hold them to western standards?
Israel claims to be a member of advanced western nations, so that should set the standard, Syria does not.
Israel is a member of UEFA and Eurovision. Syria is not. Israel is supposed to be house trained.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 09, 2023, 12:10:48 AM"Riled up"? What are you on about? I'm actually a little bit bored w/ this thread, but it sort of baffles me as to why people care SO much about it. Far more people died in the war Syria, for example. Was that too complicated to understand? Yeah, I know there's lots of factors involved that stir people up a bit, but - Christ! - ye do bang on a bit!
You can avoid getting "bored with a thread" with this one weird trick...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:47:56 PMIn your experience? Is this from surveys or just chit chat at the pub?
The bit in bold was not a question, its natural for people to pay more attention to one thing over another, that has nothing to do with an imaginary playbook you feel people are buying.
16 million Jews worldwide, 0.2 in world population, not sure of the number of Zionists, but they have some clout about the place. As for anti-Semitism, I don't look at people based on where they are from, race, or religion, I wouldn't fall into that trap to be fair
HAMAS–the acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (Islamic Resistance Movement)is the largest and most capable militant group in the Palestinian territories
Hamas are at war with Israel, its not a fair war, its a massacre
Your point is?
Yes, my experience, y'know from being alive and what not
Quote from: burdizzo on November 09, 2023, 01:45:55 PMJust wonder if it's because we sort of consider Israel to be "western" and therefore hold them to western standards?
Israel is basically a Euro-American colony in the middle east. It purports to be a respectable western democracy, while engaging in heinous human rights abuses that wouldn't have looked out of place in Apartheid South Africa. Through a devastatingly efficient PR machine that silences all criticism, the truth of Israel's crimes are kept hidden from the American voters whose politicians have been lobbied into bankrolling it. If it were left to its own devices then the state of Israel might have made it, but it gets so much military backing from the US that it's pretty much invincible on an open battlefield.
If the American political system weren't for sale to the highest bidder, and if policy was drawn up on merit rather than who could afford to buy the most congressmen, we'd be looking at a different world.
Quote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 04:36:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:47:56 PMIn your experience? Is this from surveys or just chit chat at the pub?
The bit in bold was not a question, its natural for people to pay more attention to one thing over another, that has nothing to do with an imaginary playbook you feel people are buying.
16 million Jews worldwide, 0.2 in world population, not sure of the number of Zionists, but they have some clout about the place. As for anti-Semitism, I don't look at people based on where they are from, race, or religion, I wouldn't fall into that trap to be fair
HAMAS–the acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (Islamic Resistance Movement)is the largest and most capable militant group in the Palestinian territories
Hamas are at war with Israel, its not a fair war, its a massacre
Your point is?
Yes, my experience, y'know from being alive and what not
Hamas are at war with Israel.. you said in one post this war has been going on for a month then in another post it's not a war?
Your stats are straight from the hamas playbook ;)
I said a few pages ago the truth would start to come out about the 7th October. How many people were actually killed and who actually killed them.
Some more information coming to light now...
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
Quote from: Itchy on November 09, 2023, 06:43:13 PMI said a few pages ago the truth would start to come out about the 7th October. How many people were actually killed and who actually killed them.
Some more information coming to light now...
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
Some of the videos on that link are horrific
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2023, 02:26:34 PMQuote from: burdizzo on November 09, 2023, 01:45:55 PMJust wonder if it's because we sort of consider Israel to be "western" and therefore hold them to western standards?
Yes, it's because we perceive Israel as western due to the influx of European and American Jews that their lives are valued much higher than Palestinians, is that what you are asking?
I think people here view it through the prism of our own history.
Plus we see through the spoofers like Biden, Starmer and the politicians in the west etc.
Quote from: marty34 on November 09, 2023, 07:24:59 PMQuote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2023, 02:26:34 PMQuote from: burdizzo on November 09, 2023, 01:45:55 PMJust wonder if it's because we sort of consider Israel to be "western" and therefore hold them to western standards?
Yes, it's because we perceive Israel as western due to the influx of European and American Jews that their lives are valued much higher than Palestinians, is that what you are asking?
I think people here view it through the prism of our own history.
Plus we see through the spoofers like Biden, Starmer and the politicians in the west etc.
Spot on. This conflict resonates with a lot of people around the world because of the settler/native dynamic that drives it. People (including myself) get highly emotional about this conflict in a way that doesn't quite happen with other wars like Ukraine or Syria where there's no clear equivalent of our own historic oppressors.
The world is fcuked.
https://twitter.com/imreallyimprtnt/status/1722467131391172821?t=pr5OE4uVEPycTBaJ4a6bAA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/imreallyimprtnt/status/1722467131391172821?t=pr5OE4uVEPycTBaJ4a6bAA&s=19)
Well, unless Trump dies or gets sent to prison, none of those lunatics need to worry about what would happen if they were President.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 09, 2023, 07:55:57 PMThe world is fcuked.
https://twitter.com/imreallyimprtnt/status/1722467131391172821?t=pr5OE4uVEPycTBaJ4a6bAA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/imreallyimprtnt/status/1722467131391172821?t=pr5OE4uVEPycTBaJ4a6bAA&s=19)
Disgusting fu$kers the lot of them, sociopaths with power, a scary combination
Quote from: theskull1 on November 09, 2023, 07:55:57 PMThe world is fcuked.
https://twitter.com/imreallyimprtnt/status/1722467131391172821?t=pr5OE4uVEPycTBaJ4a6bAA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/imreallyimprtnt/status/1722467131391172821?t=pr5OE4uVEPycTBaJ4a6bAA&s=19)
I watched the whole "debate". (Yes I am a sucker for punishment)
Number of seconds spent showing concern for civilians being killed in Gaza: 0
Number of seconds discussing allowing the Palestinians to have a state: 0
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 05:56:33 PMQuote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 04:36:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:47:56 PMIn your experience? Is this from surveys or just chit chat at the pub?
The bit in bold was not a question, its natural for people to pay more attention to one thing over another, that has nothing to do with an imaginary playbook you feel people are buying.
16 million Jews worldwide, 0.2 in world population, not sure of the number of Zionists, but they have some clout about the place. As for anti-Semitism, I don't look at people based on where they are from, race, or religion, I wouldn't fall into that trap to be fair
HAMAS–the acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (Islamic Resistance Movement)is the largest and most capable militant group in the Palestinian territories
Hamas are at war with Israel, its not a fair war, its a massacre
Your point is?
Yes, my experience, y'know from being alive and what not
Hamas are at war with Israel.. you said in one post this war has been going on for a month then in another post it's not a war?
Your stats are straight from the hamas playbook ;)
I'm sure that sounded like a witty retort somewhere in your head
Christ the night
My stats come from the UN
As for use of the word war, I didn't say it directly, but yes, that would have been easily inferred
You have my apologies for that
What's going on at the minute is not a war - genocide is not war
Quote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 10:43:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 05:56:33 PMQuote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 04:36:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:47:56 PMIn your experience? Is this from surveys or just chit chat at the pub?
The bit in bold was not a question, its natural for people to pay more attention to one thing over another, that has nothing to do with an imaginary playbook you feel people are buying.
16 million Jews worldwide, 0.2 in world population, not sure of the number of Zionists, but they have some clout about the place. As for anti-Semitism, I don't look at people based on where they are from, race, or religion, I wouldn't fall into that trap to be fair
HAMAS–the acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (Islamic Resistance Movement)is the largest and most capable militant group in the Palestinian territories
Hamas are at war with Israel, its not a fair war, its a massacre
Your point is?
Yes, my experience, y'know from being alive and what not
Hamas are at war with Israel.. you said in one post this war has been going on for a month then in another post it's not a war?
Your stats are straight from the hamas playbook ;)
I'm sure that sounded like a witty retort somewhere in your head
Christ the night
My stats come from the UN
As for use of the word war, I didn't say it directly, but yes, that would have been easily inferred
You have my apologies for that
What's going on at the minute is not a war - genocide is not war
It's as bad as anything that's went on ever. 21st Century Holocaust
Quote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 10:43:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 05:56:33 PMQuote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 04:36:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:47:56 PMIn your experience? Is this from surveys or just chit chat at the pub?
The bit in bold was not a question, its natural for people to pay more attention to one thing over another, that has nothing to do with an imaginary playbook you feel people are buying.
16 million Jews worldwide, 0.2 in world population, not sure of the number of Zionists, but they have some clout about the place. As for anti-Semitism, I don't look at people based on where they are from, race, or religion, I wouldn't fall into that trap to be fair
HAMAS–the acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (Islamic Resistance Movement)is the largest and most capable militant group in the Palestinian territories
Hamas are at war with Israel, its not a fair war, its a massacre
Your point is?
Yes, my experience, y'know from being alive and what not
Hamas are at war with Israel.. you said in one post this war has been going on for a month then in another post it's not a war?
Your stats are straight from the hamas playbook ;)
I'm sure that sounded like a witty retort somewhere in your head
Christ the night
My stats come from the UN
As for use of the word war, I didn't say it directly, but yes, that would have been easily inferred
You have my apologies for that
What's going on at the minute is not a war - genocide is not war
I'm glad we cleared that up, it was war, not war and now genocide, which I agree with btw. But Hamas are an army, just in case you are getting confused.
Here's a stat
The most violent year of the conflict was 2015, when around 110,000 people were killed In Syria..
Now if I go back into the GAA board around that time I doubt there's a single thread or page about it.
Armagh18 you've obviously never heard about others genocides going on
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 10:58:13 PMQuote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 10:43:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 05:56:33 PMQuote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 04:36:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 02:47:56 PMIn your experience? Is this from surveys or just chit chat at the pub?
The bit in bold was not a question, its natural for people to pay more attention to one thing over another, that has nothing to do with an imaginary playbook you feel people are buying.
16 million Jews worldwide, 0.2 in world population, not sure of the number of Zionists, but they have some clout about the place. As for anti-Semitism, I don't look at people based on where they are from, race, or religion, I wouldn't fall into that trap to be fair
HAMAS–the acronym for Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya (Islamic Resistance Movement)is the largest and most capable militant group in the Palestinian territories
Hamas are at war with Israel, its not a fair war, its a massacre
Your point is?
Yes, my experience, y'know from being alive and what not
Hamas are at war with Israel.. you said in one post this war has been going on for a month then in another post it's not a war?
Your stats are straight from the hamas playbook ;)
I'm sure that sounded like a witty retort somewhere in your head
Christ the night
My stats come from the UN
As for use of the word war, I didn't say it directly, but yes, that would have been easily inferred
You have my apologies for that
What's going on at the minute is not a war - genocide is not war
I'm glad we cleared that up, it was war, not war and now genocide, which I agree with btw. But Hamas are an army, just in case you are getting confused.
Here's a stat
The most violent year of the conflict was 2015, when around 110,000 people were killed In Syria..
Now if I go back into the GAA board around that time I doubt there's a single thread or page about it.
Armagh18 you've obviously never heard about others genocides going on
Start a Syrian thread or general genocide thread
I don't have to, I'm just showing that people tend to have 'preferences' which is ok. But personally, there's no 'better' deaths.
Kids dying are no different in Gaza, Aleppo or the numerous African wars.
This isn't deflection or taking away what the degenerate murdering scumbags are doing in Gaza
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 11:14:10 PMI don't have to, I'm just showing that people tend to have 'preferences' which is ok. But personally, there's no 'better' deaths.
Kids dying are no different in Gaza, Aleppo or the numerous African wars.
This isn't deflection or taking away what the degenerate murdering scumbags are doing in Gaza
The only person talking about 'better' deaths (what a phrase to invent) is you
What the fcuk are you waffling on about?
What exact point is it that are you trying to make and could you make it please
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 11:14:10 PMI don't have to, I'm just showing that people tend to have 'preferences' which is ok. But personally, there's no 'better' deaths.
Kids dying are no different in Gaza, Aleppo or the numerous African wars.
This isn't deflection or taking away what the degenerate murdering scumbags are doing in Gaza
You've gone full David Brent
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 11:14:10 PMI don't have to, I'm just showing that people tend to have 'preferences' which is ok. But personally, there's no 'better' deaths.
Kids dying are no different in Gaza, Aleppo or the numerous African wars.
This isn't deflection or taking away what the degenerate murdering scumbags are doing in Gaza
Would the person who said there are "better deaths" please step forward and apologise so we can move on from this nonsense.
Quote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 11:22:35 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 11:14:10 PMI don't have to, I'm just showing that people tend to have 'preferences' which is ok. But personally, there's no 'better' deaths.
Kids dying are no different in Gaza, Aleppo or the numerous African wars.
This isn't deflection or taking away what the degenerate murdering scumbags are doing in Gaza
The only person talking about 'better' deaths (what a phrase to invent) is you
What the fcuk are you waffling on about?
What exact point is it that are you trying to make and could you make it please
All I've said is the discussion board rates other wars more important to discuss.
Probably better deaths wasn't the best term, but I'm only saying, for all the pages on this current war, no one really condemns or talks at length on other wars.
Btw you did plenty waffling earlier
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 11:53:42 PMQuote from: Franko on November 09, 2023, 11:22:35 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2023, 11:14:10 PMI don't have to, I'm just showing that people tend to have 'preferences' which is ok. But personally, there's no 'better' deaths.
Kids dying are no different in Gaza, Aleppo or the numerous African wars.
This isn't deflection or taking away what the degenerate murdering scumbags are doing in Gaza
The only person talking about 'better' deaths (what a phrase to invent) is you
What the fcuk are you waffling on about?
What exact point is it that are you trying to make and could you make it please
All I've said is the discussion board rates other wars more important to discuss.
Probably better deaths wasn't the best term, but I'm only saying, for all the pages on this current war, no one really condemns or talks at length on other wars.
Btw you did plenty waffling earlier
Jesus christ
About 7 posts and your "point" is that people care about some things more than they care about other things
All wars are not equal and some will resonate with people more than others
Whoop de doo
But this isn't even a war
It's shooting fish in a barrel
A massacre of mostly innocents in which children are dying in their hundreds per day
It's genocide and an attempt to exterminate a nation of people in order to steal their land
I'm sorry that you couldn't understand what I was saying in my earlier posts
But given the nonsense you've been spewing here, I don't think the fault lies with me
Yeah you can pooh pooh all ya want.
There's nothing happening in Gaza that I'm not agreeing with you, or anyone else bar maybe one or two.
Again, you've done enough spewing rubbish but, hey, that's ok.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2023, 12:26:52 AMYeah you can pooh pooh all ya want.
There's nothing happening in Gaza that I'm not agreeing with you, or anyone else bar maybe one or two.
Again, you've done enough spewing rubbish but, hey, that's ok.
"pooh pooh" ??
Lol
This topic generally makes me very angry, but that gave me a laugh
So I suppose I should thank you
😂
The Israelis want to clear Gaza of Palestinians. This constitutes ethnic cleansing
They are bombing hospitals
They are using white phosphorous
They are committing genocide
And they tell us that they are like us.
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2023, 07:20:13 AMThe Israelis want to clear Gaza of Palestinians. This constitutes ethnic cleansing
They are bombing hospitals
They are using white phosphorous
They are committing genocide
And they tell us that they are like us.
Not like us. But plenty in common with their British and American buddies
We were the 16th/17th Century Palestinians.
Thankfully the oppressors only had single shot guns, canons etc in those days.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 10:17:28 AMWe were the 16th/17th Century Palestinians.
Thankfully the oppressors only had single shot guns, canons etc in those days.
They controlled most of the food production though which lead to our own genocide.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 10:17:28 AMWe were the 16th/17th Century Palestinians.
Thankfully the oppressors only had single shot guns, canons etc in those days.
They still killed a lot of our people and made us lose our language.Which family was hanged by Cromwell on the hanging hill ie Knockcroghery ? It was a long way from dúidíns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKeutlpJGqA
Israel won't allow enough food into Gaza.
It won't allow fuel in. Hundreds of people are buried under rubble.There is no fuel for bulldozers to clear the rubble.
This is supposed to be Judaism.
It's certainly ensuring that Hamas or its successor will have recruits for many decades to come.
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2023, 03:23:18 PMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKeutlpJGqA
Israel won't allow enough food into Gaza.
It won't allow fuel in. Hundreds of people are buried under rubble.There is no fuel for bulldozers to clear the rubble.
This is supposed to be Judaism.
More Zionism to Judaism, most Judean Jews are against this particular holocaust
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 05:08:17 PMIt's certainly ensuring that Hamas or its successor will have recruits for many decades to come.
100%
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on November 10, 2023, 05:13:15 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2023, 05:08:17 PMIt's certainly ensuring that Hamas or its successor will have recruits for many decades to come.
100%
I suspect it has also widened the net for potential targets too given the way a lot of the world reacted :(
https://www.derrynow.com/news/home/1345231/o-neill-s-agree-to-remove-puma-items-from-derry-store.html
I can just imagine this being a very civilised conversation, suffice to say in the interests of protecting their no claims bonus O'Neills acted wisely.
I wonder if they knocked the door of JDs and Sports Direct who are also in Derry, no doubt would be told to do one.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1110/1415732-gaza-israel-conflict/
"Palestinian Red Crescent says Israeli snipers shooting at Gaza's Al-Quds hospital
The Palestinian Red Crescent Society has said that Israeli snipers were shooting at Gaza City's Al-Quds hospital, reporting at least one death and 20 wounded."
It only took 80 years for the Nazi virus to take over Israel
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/apeldoornsebos.html
Does anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
Quote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
Maybe they have, or maybe they haven't, but does Israel representatives release the names of these Hamas leaders they purport to kill when taking out thousands of innocent civilians and flattening entire neighbourhoods?
Quote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/10/politics/antony-blinken-israel-gaza/index.html
Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Friday gave one of his most direct condemnations of the civilian death toll in Gaza and said more needs to be done to "minimize harm to Palestinian civilians."
https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1723112495332643016?t=xefrbgwtgA0oxFZmQCvctw&s=19
UN workers are Hamas.
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2023, 12:35:06 AMhttps://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/10/politics/antony-blinken-israel-gaza/index.html
Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Friday gave one of his most direct condemnations of the civilian death toll in Gaza and said more needs to be done to "minimize harm to Palestinian civilians."
He said too many Palestinian civilians had been killed which I suppose implies that there is an ok amount of Palestinian civilians that may be killed.
Quote from: JoG2 on November 10, 2023, 10:42:49 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
Maybe they have, or maybe they haven't, but does Israel representatives release the names of these Hamas leaders they purport to kill when taking out thousands of innocent civilians and flattening entire neighbourhoods?
They haven't even released the names of the so called 1400 people murdered on 7th Oct. Probably because it was nowhere near 1400. The number is a lie, the beheaded babies was a lie, the rapes of hostages a lie and not targetting hospitals, ambulances and civilians is a complete and utter lie.
Fair enough if at the start you bought these stories but surely now after all we have seen those posters must see that those statements were all lies.
Are you googling to see the names of those that have died?
Quote from: Itchy on November 11, 2023, 09:12:54 AMQuote from: seafoid on November 11, 2023, 12:35:06 AMhttps://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/10/politics/antony-blinken-israel-gaza/index.html
Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Friday gave one of his most direct condemnations of the civilian death toll in Gaza and said more needs to be done to "minimize harm to Palestinian civilians."
He said too many Palestinian civilians had been killed which I suppose implies that there is an ok amount of Palestinian civilians that may be killed.
I think international politicians are hoping that Israel can crush Hamas by the middle of next week. The big question is the future impact on US politics.
BREAKING🚨: Israel admits apache helicopters fired on their own civilians running from the Supernova music festival. (https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654?t=l1e_oFGCvzBIwd9X_Aszdg&s=19)
"This is is why we saw images of burned people inside their cars. Obviously a gun does not make this damage, but an Israeli apache helicopter does. Israel showed these images to journalists to justify their genocide in Gaza."
Quote from: theskull1 on November 11, 2023, 09:48:49 AMBREAKING🚨: Israel admits apache helicopters fired on their own civilians running from the Supernova music festival. (https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654?t=l1e_oFGCvzBIwd9X_Aszdg&s=19)
"This is is why we saw images of burned people inside their cars. Obviously a gun does not make this damage, but an Israeli apache helicopter does. Israel showed these images to journalists to justify their genocide in Gaza."
They killed 112 Israelis in Kibbutz Be'eri as well
https://twitter.com/MSF_canada/status/1723331612719370436?t=m7iRVY1NBQ8nbCMQIrbWVA&s=19
doctors without Borders... almost sure it's an official page. (Canadian)
Palestinians fleeing hospitals are being shot at
Hold them to account https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdYBrNzp77ivaNXcojTUy7R4YER4k7FnrOgXi3tl5OM5iJ27g/viewform?pli=1
Quote from: theskull1 on November 11, 2023, 09:48:49 AMBREAKING🚨: Israel admits apache helicopters fired on their own civilians running from the Supernova music festival. (https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654?t=l1e_oFGCvzBIwd9X_Aszdg&s=19)
"This is is why we saw images of burned people inside their cars. Obviously a gun does not make this damage, but an Israeli apache helicopter does. Israel showed these images to journalists to justify their genocide in Gaza."
There's so much to criticize Israel about without rehashing what seems to be fake news. The Apache helicopters were chasing Hamas terrorists who were retreating back to Gaza. Nowhere near the festival
Quote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 04:55:30 PMQuote from: theskull1 on November 11, 2023, 09:48:49 AMBREAKING🚨: Israel admits apache helicopters fired on their own civilians running from the Supernova music festival. (https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654?t=l1e_oFGCvzBIwd9X_Aszdg&s=19)
"This is is why we saw images of burned people inside their cars. Obviously a gun does not make this damage, but an Israeli apache helicopter does. Israel showed these images to journalists to justify their genocide in Gaza."
There's so much to criticize Israel about without rehashing what seems to be fake news. The Apache helicopters were chasing Hamas terrorists who were retreating back to Gaza. Nowhere near the festival
How can pilots know if someone is Jewish from the air? They can't. They killed Israelis from the festival and in the kibbutz.
Premature babies must also be Hamas
https://twitter.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1723281162213220680
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1111/1415940-israel-gaza/ French President Emmanuel Macron said Israel had the right to defend itself but urged it to stop strikes on civilians in Gaza: "These babies, these ladies, these old people are bombed and killed."
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu pushed back, saying the responsibility for any harm to civilians lies with Hamas.
Quote from: seafoid on November 11, 2023, 05:10:13 PMPremature babies must also be Hamas
https://twitter.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1723281162213220680
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1111/1415940-israel-gaza/ French President Emmanuel Macron said Israel had the right to defend itself but urged it to stop strikes on civilians in Gaza: "These babies, these ladies, these old people are bombed and killed."
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu pushed back, saying the responsibility for any harm to civilians lies with Hamas.
The 39 babies are not dead. They are no longer in incubators.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
israeli casualties have been revised down from 1400 to 1200 I believe. Would you say Israel exaggerated the number of deaths?
If Israel didn't do it, why produce fake audio, tweet they did it, fake videos were tweeted by govt accounts then removed, and tell the hospital they would bomb it.
Given Joe Biden could say he saw evidence he didn't see, could the intelligence services of the same counties who are not calling for a ceasefire also lie about it?
also I'm still waiting for answers from you and for you to correct the lies you posted about what i have said on this thread
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
They are literally bombing the f**k out of hospitals day in day out , but yes, HAMAS misfired their one huge bomb... Balance of probabilities my hole!
If America doesn't reel these psychopaths in soon, christ knows where it'll end
I didn't post any lies php. I was wondering if you condemned the Hamas terrorist attack or if you supported it and you refused to answer. I'm not going to trawl through 106 pages to find it. Neither of your first two posts condemned it, which I would have thought, being the immediate aftermath of the attack, would have been the most likely time. But you did call Hamas heroic and it's not a big jump to think someone calling them heroic would not be condemning (in the absence of answering the question )
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 10:46:03 AMIt was most certainly heroic, the occupied rising up against their occupier, an occupier armed to the teeth and who cages 2m people in Gaza.. a blow to apartheid Israel and great victory for Palestinans.
Who are they turning against them, the people who turned a blind eye and stayed silent to apartheid crimes for 75 years...
Quote from: JoG2 on November 11, 2023, 06:18:31 PMQuote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
They are literally bombing the f**k out of hospitals day in day out , but yes, HAMAS misfired their one huge bomb... Balance of probabilities my hole!
If America doesn't reel these psychopaths in soon, christ knows where it'll end
Ah cmon JOG, everyone says it wasn't a big bomb that hit that car park. There is a chance it was a smaller Israeli weapon that they have very rarely used, but absolutely a misfired Palestinian rocket with its full fuel load
could have done it.
The hospitals Israel did bomb have been properly (and despicably) hit and no denials.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 06:27:57 PMQuote from: JoG2 on November 11, 2023, 06:18:31 PMQuote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
They are literally bombing the f**k out of hospitals day in day out , but yes, HAMAS misfired their one huge bomb... Balance of probabilities my hole!
If America doesn't reel these psychopaths in soon, christ knows where it'll end
Ah cmon JOG, everyone says it wasn't a big bomb that hit that car park. There is a chance it was a smaller Israeli weapon that they have very rarely used, but absolutely a misfired Palestinian rocket with its full fuel load could have done it.
The hospitals Israel did bomb have been properly (and despicably) hit and no denials.
Israel doesn't change. It just reveals itself.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 06:21:25 PMI didn't post any lies php. I was wondering if you condemned the Hamas terrorist attack or if you supported it and you refused to answer. I'm not going to trawl through 106 pages to find it. Neither of your first two posts condemned it, which I would have thought, being the immediate aftermath of the attack, would have been the most likely time. But you did call Hamas heroic and it's not a big jump to think someone calling them heroic would not be condemning (in the absence of answering the question )
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 08, 2023, 10:46:03 AMIt was most certainly heroic, the occupied rising up against their occupier, an occupier armed to the teeth and who cages 2m people in Gaza.. a blow to apartheid Israel and great victory for Palestinans.
Who are they turning against them, the people who turned a blind eye and stayed silent to apartheid crimes for 75 years...
you did lie, at least twice.
lie 1 - "You have not condemned the Hamas massacre once in your dozens of posts"
lie 2 - "Or sticking with your initial comment that the Hamas massacre on men, women, children and pensioners was 'heroic"
I called resistance heroic, resistence to occupation which is enshrined in international law.
click on my name and show posts and you can see all my posts, according you to you, you looked at at least at dozen. just because you are too lazy to read a few posts doesn't give you the right to make stuff up and outright lie.
Not a chance I'm going to search through all your posts!! It would have been quicker for you to say it than the type the stuff about searching posts ffs!
'It was most certainly heroic' the day after the attack is about the resistance in general and is not about the attack itself! Of course. That clears it up, many thanks.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 06:41:59 PMNot a chance I'm going to search through all your posts!! It would have been quicker for you to say it than the type the stuff about searching posts ffs!
'It was most certainly heroic' the day after the attack is about the resistance in general and is not about the attack itself! Of course. That clears it up, many thanks.
so you decided to make stuff up.. straight out of Israelis playback that one..
if you read back through my actual posts surely it betters than posting little snippets and taking things out of context and implying stuff I didn't actually write.
According to you my posts were reasonable up to sharing a link to Max Blumenthal, which would include the heroic comment which you have taken out of context.
And you still won't answer. Such a hard question too.
The post I quoted above (your full post, not a snippet) is easy to decipher. Despite the denials.
PHP and Hound will stop replying to each other's posts.
No feuds allowed and bans will be issued.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 06:51:55 PMAnd you still won't answer. Such a hard question too.
The post I quoted above is easy to decipher. Despite the denials.
I've already answered. obviously not, as the author of that quote is actually telling you, you are deciphering it wrong!!!
one of my previous posts.
.
'In terms of brutality Israeli crimes far outweigh anything Hamas has done. Again to be clear both have committed war crimes.'
no feud, I won't comment further mod. apologies
from DR. Mads Gilbert, 3 of the babies that had to be taken out of the incubators have died.
https://twitter.com/EuroMedHR/status/1723419140864516575?t=cqrX0qll4paEhiZmO1drhA&s=19
over 14k palestinian dead, almost 6k kids, almost 13k civilians
over 54k houses demolished, 1.64m displaced
thanks Bunker.. see picture below
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-rQhe_XIAAXims?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 11, 2023, 07:20:46 PMhttps://twitter.com/EuroMedHR/status/1723419140864516575?t=cqrX0qll4paEhiZmO1drhA&s=19
over 14k palestinian dead, almost 6k kids, almost 13k civilians
over 54k houses demolished, 1.64m displaced
I'd say more than 20k.
Lots must be buried under the rubble.
Disgraceful and deliberate killing of men, women and children by Israel.
Graphic video on twitter, I won't post it, bulldozer manuavering to run over a Palestinian. When the leaders of Israel dehumanise Palestinians, and the west ignores a genocide, its hardly surprising.
Rachel Corrie was murdered in similar enough fashion 20 years ago. Israelis celebrated this by having pancake breakfasts.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
I'm sorry but you are either taking the piss or you can't bear the idea of admitting you were wrong.
Israel threatened to bomb the hospital 3 times, it got bombed. They've since bombed other hospitals, ambulances and today snipers were firing into another. And still you think on balance of probabilities that Hamas misfired a rocket into it. Mental
Quote from: Itchy on November 11, 2023, 07:44:37 PMQuote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
I'm sorry but you are either taking the piss or you can't bear the idea of admitting you were wrong.
Israel threatened to bomb the hospital 3 times, it got bombed. They've since bombed other hospitals, ambulances and today snipers were firing into another. And still you think on balance of probabilities that Hamas misfired a rocket into it. Mental
Your comment 'can't bear the idea of admitting you were wrong.' must be the reason you keep bringing this up.
The hospital wasn't bombed, the car park was hit with something. If Israel wanted to bomb the hospital it wouldn't be still standing, it would look more like the ones it actually did bomb. It's not clear how many died in the hospital, but it's less than 50, could be less than 10. The bulk of the people who died were poor souls sheltering in the car park having moved out of their homes. Horrific.
But again, the approx 200 who died in this is a drop in the ocean of the 10,000 to 20,000 the Israelis actually have killed. But itchy wants to win the internet and talk about conspiracy theories.
But I'm done with this 'feud' itchy, mod might ban us, and it's very boring for everyone else. At this stage it really doesn't matter that a faulty Palestinian rocket landed in a hospital car park given all the actual atrocities, so I will not be reading your next posts
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 08:00:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 11, 2023, 07:44:37 PMQuote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
Quote from: Hound on November 11, 2023, 05:09:11 PMQuote from: Franko on November 10, 2023, 11:07:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 10, 2023, 10:15:21 PMDoes anyone genuinely still believe Israel didn't bomb that first hospital?
I can't be bothered to go back to find out who, but we had a poster on here try to suggest that the Israelis were being 'open and honest' about it
After releasing about half a dozen doctored video and audio clips to 'prove' it was Hamas
I mean how absolutely f**king thick does someone have to be
The genocidal Israelis (and Nigerian Princes) depend on such fools
No reputable source (and there have been many many examinations of the information provided by Israel) suggested the video was in any way doctored. One of the main pieces of video evidence actually came from an Al Jazeera camera. None of the media examinations gave any weight to the audio.
Hamas exaggerated the number of deaths and were seen taken items from the car park rubble. Hamas provided no evidence of Israeli shrapnel.
Israel have admitted bombing numerous schools, universities and hospitals. The only excuse they need is that Hamas have used it for something. They have no need to deny one and not deny the rest. Plus the results from the actual Israeli bombings are usually very different to that first hospital car park.
We can't say for sure who did it, but balance of probabilities based on all reports I've read is that it was a misfiring Palestinian rocket.
Not sure why people want to keep bringing it up, when it has been completely overshadowed by atrocities actually carried out by Israel.
I'm sorry but you are either taking the piss or you can't bear the idea of admitting you were wrong.
Israel threatened to bomb the hospital 3 times, it got bombed. They've since bombed other hospitals, ambulances and today snipers were firing into another. And still you think on balance of probabilities that Hamas misfired a rocket into it. Mental
Your comment 'can't bear the idea of admitting you were wrong.' must be the reason you keep bringing this up.
The hospital wasn't bombed, the car park was hit with something. If Israel wanted to bomb the hospital it wouldn't be still standing, it would look more like the ones it actually did bomb. It's not clear how many died in the hospital, but it's less than 50, could be less than 10. The bulk of the people who died were poor souls sheltering in the car park having moved out of their homes. Horrific.
But again, the approx 200 who died in this is a drop in the ocean of the 10,000 to 20,000 the Israelis actually have killed. But itchy wants to win the internet and talk about conspiracy theories.
But I'm done with this 'feud' itchy, mod might ban us, and it's very boring for everyone else. At this stage it really doesn't matter that a faulty Palestinian rocket landed in a hospital car park given all the actual atrocities, so I will not be reading your next posts
I'm not feuding. You've just no credibility as a poster based on what you are saying and I'm leaving it there
Noted Hamas Propaganda outlet, the New York Times, had this to say:
In the posts, the Israeli military identified the moving aerial object as a "rocket aimed at Israel" that "misfired and exploded" at nearly the same time as the Al-Ahli Arab Hospital blast. Spokesmen for the Israeli military also explicitly identified this munition as the misfired rocket that caused the explosion in interviews with CNN and the BBC on Oct. 18 and in an interview with India Today on Oct. 19.
Numerous media outlets have shown the video footage and several have cited it as evidence that a Palestinian rocket hit the hospital.
But The Times concluded that the missile in the video was never near the hospital. It was launched from Israel, not Gaza, and appears to have exploded above the Israeli-Gaza border, at least two miles away from the hospital.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html
Starting to wonder what age some lads are on here, as they some growing up to do.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 08:24:17 PMStarting to wonder what age some lads are on here, as they some growing up to do.
46
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 08:24:17 PMStarting to wonder what age some lads are on here, as they some growing up to do.
Yeah it's a bitta point scoring type of stuff.
There's one guy on here, Give her Dixie who actually did something that was real, rather than post tripe on internet and feel good about themselves while sitting on their sofa
The latest chain of events in this 75 years is by far the worst.
I hope it stops soon, it's horrific
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 08:50:03 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 08:24:17 PMStarting to wonder what age some lads are on here, as they some growing up to do.
Yeah it's a bitta point scoring type of stuff.
There's one guy on here, Give her Dixie who actually did something that was real, rather than post tripe on internet and feel good about themselves while sitting on their sofa
The latest chain of events in this 75 years is by far the worst.
I hope it stops soon, it's horrific
With respect Miltown, you've no idea what other posters have done that's "real" no more than I know what you've done. In this current scenario what can anyone do but protest? The food, water, medical cannot get in. No one gets in or out. As European citizens we can protest I can tell you I've been at a few protest marches since this kicked off and maybe some others have too, I don't know.
Quote from: Itchy on November 11, 2023, 08:59:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 08:50:03 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 08:24:17 PMStarting to wonder what age some lads are on here, as they some growing up to do.
Yeah it's a bitta point scoring type of stuff.
There's one guy on here, Give her Dixie who actually did something that was real, rather than post tripe on internet and feel good about themselves while sitting on their sofa
The latest chain of events in this 75 years is by far the worst.
I hope it stops soon, it's horrific
With respect Miltown, you've no idea what other posters have done that's "real" no more than I know what you've done. In this current scenario what can anyone do but protest? The food, water, medical cannot get in. No one gets in or out. As European citizens we can protest I can tell you I've been at a few protest marches since this kicked off and maybe some others have too, I don't know.
I can protest, I can stop buying stuff from Israel but Christ lad, you're or I are doing nowt unfortunately.
But that's ok, there are loads of issues worldwide that other than walking into a city centre on a protest march, which in fairness I've not done for Palestine, but certainly for our home problems it won't or hasn't stopped the current war in the Middle East.
https://twitter.com/geesuzwept/status/1723116616131514549?t=1kxtoyVOkZkAuzyPWWByPQ&s=19
I find we should look for moral guidance today from ultras rather than politicians
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 09:09:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 11, 2023, 08:59:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 08:50:03 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 08:24:17 PMStarting to wonder what age some lads are on here, as they some growing up to do.
Yeah it's a bitta point scoring type of stuff.
There's one guy on here, Give her Dixie who actually did something that was real, rather than post tripe on internet and feel good about themselves while sitting on their sofa
The latest chain of events in this 75 years is by far the worst.
I hope it stops soon, it's horrific
With respect Miltown, you've no idea what other posters have done that's "real" no more than I know what you've done. In this current scenario what can anyone do but protest? The food, water, medical cannot get in. No one gets in or out. As European citizens we can protest I can tell you I've been at a few protest marches since this kicked off and maybe some others have too, I don't know.
I can protest, I can stop buying stuff from Israel but Christ lad, you're or I are doing nowt unfortunately.
But that's ok, there are loads of issues worldwide that other than walking into a city centre on a protest march, which in fairness I've not done for Palestine, but certainly for our home problems it won't or hasn't stopped the current war in the Middle East.
and give her dixie did nowt by that measure too.
I doubt anyone here thinks they are doing anything anywhere near important in the grand scheme but that doesn't stop people doing what they can however little it is, however little it impacts. boycotting, protesting, manning stands, packing boxes of toys etc.
it's a it rich (politely) telling people they are posting tripe to feel good about themselves..
I know it's still a short period of time, but is anyone surprised there has been no real retaliation from supposed Gaza sympathisers?
Yes. It maybe is short but feels like a long time
Quote from: ONeill on November 11, 2023, 11:23:52 PMI know it's still a short period of time, but is anyone surprised there has been no real retaliation from supposed Gaza sympathisers?
We don't know what their red lines are. Ethnic cleansing is likely to be one.
Meanwhile
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-10/ty-article/.premium/gazas-humanitarian-crisis-turns-into-a-strategic-weapon-for-israel
Gaza's Humanitarian Crisis Turns Into a Strategic Weapon for Israel
The humanitarian crisis in Gaza now gives Israel diplomatic leverage, which includes receiving concessions from Egypt and a defanging of the American rush to reach a two-state solution
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 09:09:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 11, 2023, 08:59:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2023, 08:50:03 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on November 11, 2023, 08:24:17 PMStarting to wonder what age some lads are on here, as they some growing up to do.
Yeah it's a bitta point scoring type of stuff.
There's one guy on here, Give her Dixie who actually did something that was real, rather than post tripe on internet and feel good about themselves while sitting on their sofa
The latest chain of events in this 75 years is by far the worst.
I hope it stops soon, it's horrific
With respect Miltown, you've no idea what other posters have done that's "real" no more than I know what you've done. In this current scenario what can anyone do but protest? The food, water, medical cannot get in. No one gets in or out. As European citizens we can protest I can tell you I've been at a few protest marches since this kicked off and maybe some others have too, I don't know.
I can protest, I can stop buying stuff from Israel but Christ lad, you're or I are doing nowt unfortunately.
But that's ok, there are loads of issues worldwide that other than walking into a city centre on a protest march, which in fairness I've not done for Palestine, but certainly for our home problems it won't or hasn't stopped the current war in the Middle East.
How in the name of Jaysus is the GAAboard supposed to influence the direction of a war in the Middle East? We can't even influence GAA matches.
If people are better informed, surely that is as much as anyone can do.
John Finucane and Clare Daly can speak for Ireland
Clare Daly https://twitter.com/umyaznemo/status/1712911970041577885
John Finucane https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Ypvh38p2RJs
Ireland's diplomats can speak up and influence things in the EU.
The Israelis have destroyed a cardiac unit at al Shifa hospital and have offered to take 40 premature babies for PR purposes in order to demonstrate their humanity.
They really put the n in cuts.
https://www.facebook.com/100063489435780/posts/pfbid0km5TKRJZ3qNXxRpVAkPMrUC89qQtwawsU9JYosrQq3WNaAzHi5phCfQvLoEJKLezl/?mibextid=fNONUu
Fair play to O'Neills
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2023, 02:00:45 PMhttps://www.facebook.com/100063489435780/posts/pfbid0km5TKRJZ3qNXxRpVAkPMrUC89qQtwawsU9JYosrQq3WNaAzHi5phCfQvLoEJKLezl/?mibextid=fNONUu
Fair play to O'Neills
Well done
Mike Ryan was on Radio 1
Contact lost with Al Shifa
18 out of 36 hospitals dysfunctional
People dying in intensive care
1/3 of bombing in safe zone
150 attacks on healthcare in Gaza
100 UN workers murdered
No food in hospitals.
10,000 pregnancies. 2500 will be caesarian . 150 will be premature. Israel destroyed the hospitals.
What are the mothers supposed to do?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 11, 2023, 05:20:53 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 11, 2023, 05:10:13 PMPremature babies must also be Hamas
https://twitter.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1723281162213220680
https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1111/1415940-israel-gaza/ French President Emmanuel Macron said Israel had the right to defend itself but urged it to stop strikes on civilians in Gaza: "These babies, these ladies, these old people are bombed and killed."
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu pushed back, saying the responsibility for any harm to civilians lies with Hamas.
The 39 babies are not dead. They are no longer in incubators.
they are not dead yet
Braverman gone, Cameron now a lord and back in the cabinet.
Quote from: dec on November 13, 2023, 12:48:46 PMBraverman gone, Cameron now a lord and back in the cabinet.
Hopefully this is just the beginning of people in a position of power or influence feeling the ramifications of being bias to the one side they have clear connections to. Very disappointed with people like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan and their lack of impartiality in this issue as well.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on November 13, 2023, 02:02:18 PMQuote from: dec on November 13, 2023, 12:48:46 PMBraverman gone, Cameron now a lord and back in the cabinet.
Hopefully this is just the beginning of people in a position of power or influence feeling the ramifications of being bias to the one side they have clear connections to. Very disappointed with people like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan and their lack of impartiality in this issue as well.
Not wanting to bite the hand that feeds I'd say!
Dunno about the other lad, but can't imagine Peterson being pro-Palestinian for a minute.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 13, 2023, 02:22:02 PMDunno about the other lad, but can't imagine Peterson being pro-Palestinian for a minute.
I take it you haven't read the about infamous "give them hell" tweet to his friend Netanyahu. He hasn't covered himself in glory since either, see Piers Morgan interview.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on November 13, 2023, 02:02:18 PMVery disappointed with people like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan and their lack of impartiality in this issue as well.
When have either of them demonstrated impartiality
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on November 13, 2023, 02:02:18 PMQuote from: dec on November 13, 2023, 12:48:46 PMBraverman gone, Cameron now a lord and back in the cabinet.
Hopefully this is just the beginning of people in a position of power or influence feeling the ramifications of being bias to the one side they have clear connections to. Very disappointed with people like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan and their lack of impartiality in this issue as well.
Take careful note of all the so called impartial media and how they are reporting. I was delighted to see TD Brid Smith call out RTE's imbedded reporter in Tel Aviv last night, how he is giving equal weight to brain washed Israelis on the streets of Tel Aviv telling us how scared they were to the barbaric scenes in Gaza. Aine Lawlor of RTE got very angry with the comment and we all know the truth hurts.
We are seeing live how the Nazis took over Germany, how the indefensible was justified. We are seeing it live in front of our eyes. They will be writing white papers on this and studying it at college for years to come.
Most of the Israelis interviewed on RTE are unhinged. They think it is all about them
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on November 13, 2023, 02:02:18 PMQuote from: dec on November 13, 2023, 12:48:46 PMBraverman gone, Cameron now a lord and back in the cabinet.
Hopefully this is just the beginning of people in a position of power or influence feeling the ramifications of being bias to the one side they have clear connections to. Very disappointed with people like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan and their lack of impartiality in this issue as well.
Peterson is very disappointing.
Chris Hedges: Israel's endgame in Palestine is genocide | The Marc Steiner Show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42FmObIfodY
Quote from: seafoid on November 13, 2023, 03:05:18 PMQuote from: north_antrim_hound on November 13, 2023, 02:02:18 PMQuote from: dec on November 13, 2023, 12:48:46 PMBraverman gone, Cameron now a lord and back in the cabinet.
Hopefully this is just the beginning of people in a position of power or influence feeling the ramifications of being bias to the one side they have clear connections to. Very disappointed with people like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan and their lack of impartiality in this issue as well.
Peterson is very disappointing.
Peterson is exactly what you'd expect.
Quote from: Puckoon on November 13, 2023, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 13, 2023, 03:05:18 PMQuote from: north_antrim_hound on November 13, 2023, 02:02:18 PMQuote from: dec on November 13, 2023, 12:48:46 PMBraverman gone, Cameron now a lord and back in the cabinet.
Hopefully this is just the beginning of people in a position of power or influence feeling the ramifications of being bias to the one side they have clear connections to. Very disappointed with people like Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan and their lack of impartiality in this issue as well.
Peterson is very disappointing.
Peterson is exactly what you'd expect.
The pied piper, careful paying him too much heed
This group is still operating and providing medical aid in Gaza.
Please consider donating.
https://www.map.org.uk/ (https://www.map.org.uk/)
"In his speech on 22 September 1947 to the United Nations, Faisal said:
But today the Arabs wish to repel the aggression of a political minority group, namely, the Zionists. It is a group which does not represent world Jewry. It is a group which is more political than religious, a group whose ways and methods are not different from those of the Nazis.[107]"
Former King Faisal of Saudi, assassinated soon after by his half brothers son who'd been in the US for a few years before this and had just returned to Saudi.
Huh? Faisal was assassinated in the 70s.
Quote from: gallsman on November 14, 2023, 02:14:36 PMHuh? Faisal was assassinated in the 70s.
Ha Ha, correct, I might need to proof read better.
He'd cut off oil supplies to the West during the 1973 Arab-Israeli war, and was threatened by the US that they'd bomb his oil fields..
King Faisal replied: "You are the ones who can't live without oil. You know, we come from the desert, and our ancestors lived on dates and milk and we can easily go back and live like that again.
According to Ha'aretz Hamas is not going to surrender any time soon and Biden is at odds with Netanyahu, probably because his re-election chances have been weakened.
So Israel may have to stop soon. Bipartisanship meaning full GOP and Democrat support for Israel meant it was shielded from accountability but this is over now. It is getting very interesting.
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2023, 04:27:52 PMAccording to Ha'aretz Hamas is not going to surrender any time soon and Biden is at odds with Netanyahu, probably because his re-election chances have been weakened.
So Israel may have to stop soon. Bipartisanship meaning full GOP and Democrat support for Israel meant it was shielded from accountability but this is over now. It is getting very interesting.
No, the dog is off the lead. Yanks have created a raging maniac he won't stop based on their words now.
https://rte.ie/news/2023/1115/1416546-gaza-israel/
medical procedures taking place without anaesthetic, families with scant food or water living in corridors, and the stench of decomposing corpses filling the air.
Quote from: Itchy on November 14, 2023, 08:42:03 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 14, 2023, 04:27:52 PMAccording to Ha'aretz Hamas is not going to surrender any time soon and Biden is at odds with Netanyahu, probably because his re-election chances have been weakened.
So Israel may have to stop soon. Bipartisanship meaning full GOP and Democrat support for Israel meant it was shielded from accountability but this is over now. It is getting very interesting.
No, the dog is off the lead. Yanks have created a raging maniac he won't stop based on their words now.
100%, the Yanks enabled the whole thing, f**king wankers
Brolly podcast was interesting, yer man Dion really is dying to blurt I stand with Israel, I'd say he fairly regrets getting involved in the podcast now, its basically the Joe show, mind you fair fucks to Brolly for pushing on with calling it out and using the platform afforded him
Quote from: tiempo on November 15, 2023, 09:35:11 AMQuote from: Itchy on November 14, 2023, 08:42:03 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 14, 2023, 04:27:52 PMAccording to Ha'aretz Hamas is not going to surrender any time soon and Biden is at odds with Netanyahu, probably because his re-election chances have been weakened.
So Israel may have to stop soon. Bipartisanship meaning full GOP and Democrat support for Israel meant it was shielded from accountability but this is over now. It is getting very interesting.
No, the dog is off the lead. Yanks have created a raging maniac he won't stop based on their words now.
100%, the Yanks enabled the whole thing, f**king wankers
Brolly podcast was interesting, yer man Dion really is dying to blurt I stand with Israel, I'd say he fairly regrets getting involved in the podcast now, its basically the Joe show, mind you fair fucks to Brolly for pushing on with calling it out and using the platform afforded him
I would imagine the same boy had a fair idea what he was getting into, and Joe would be the draw to the podcast. More importantly increasing whatever revenue they get from it.
Why Norm Finkelstein (scholar on the Israel-Palestine conflict) won't CONDEMN Hamas
Quote from: theskull1 on November 15, 2023, 11:30:10 AMWhy Norm Finkelstein (scholar on the Israel-Palestine conflict) won't CONDEMN Hamas
Why should he? Hamas is a resistance movement.
Israeli intransigence is the core problem.
Israel does not consider the Palestinians to be equal to Jews.
https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1724410323350827260
Dragging dead Palestinian https://twitter.com/RaniaKhalek/status/1718647681340289136
releasing prisoners naked https://twitter.com/mohem73/status/1724466787318641145
I should have said I concur with his thinking
Quote from: theskull1 on November 15, 2023, 12:34:39 PMI should have said I concur with his thinking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtpgGxeCGpM
Norman Finkelstein has been a shining light in the more rational thinking Jewish population for years as is Noam Chomsky. Both are professors and Chomsky is regarded as a world class public intellectual. The fact they have been robust campaigners for decades of the plight of the Palestinian people and are Jewish speaks volumes. Chomsky addresses to the UN over the years and his views on American imperialism makes for interesting reading. I would implore posters to check them out if you're not familiar with their work.
Quote from: theskull1 on November 15, 2023, 12:34:39 PMI should have said I concur with his thinking
When he used the slave analogy you can see his thinking behind not condemning the Hamas attack, but there are lots of people who will chose not to see the similarities.
Oct 7th didn't happen in a vacuum.
Finkelstein wrote a book called the martyrdom of Gaza.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on November 15, 2023, 01:27:55 PMNorman Finkelstein has been a shining light in the more rational thinking Jewish population for years as is Noam Chomsky. Both are professors and Chomsky is regarded as a world class public intellectual. The fact they have been robust campaigners for decades of the plight of the Palestinian people and are Jewish speaks volumes. Chomsky addresses to the UN over the years and his views on American imperialism makes for interesting reading. I would implore posters to check them out if you're not familiar with their work.
+1
https://youtu.be/qoeapQPq5Ac?si=j9EHr_a878vbItCr
12000 civilians later the IDF have found a chair in the Al-shifra hospital. That'll show Hamas
How many war crimes committed along the way....?
Quote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2023, 04:52:59 PMHow many war crimes committed along the way....?
Well in fairness they have found a chair
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on November 15, 2023, 04:56:45 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 15, 2023, 04:52:59 PMHow many war crimes committed along the way....?
Well in fairness they have found a chair
Nearly as sophisticated as Bin Laden in his hollowed out cave, equipped with a mono rail
When you look at that, it's a grim scene, the wrecked buildings and hospital etc.
Israel has took great pleasure in destroying that place.
Any of their spokespersons in the media are very arrogant. Couldn't like them.
They were claiming a couple of days ago to have found a list of names of those guarding hostages in the hospital. Turned out to be the names of the days of the week in Arabic.
Most of the stuff they have "discovered " is bullshit
It is all going arseways for Zionism
Us Jews are turning away
Bipartisanship is breaking down
Millions are marching
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2023, 06:55:06 PMIt is all going arseways for Zionism
Us Jews are turning away
Bipartisanship is breaking down
Millions are marching
And not 1 fcuk will they give about any of the above.
Arms landing by the bucketload, keeping the genocide on track.Germany has increased their support in arms by 10 fold for the year ahead
And Israel are losing 1-0 in a home game played in Hungary
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2023, 08:23:55 PMAnd Israel are losing 1-0 in a home game played in Hungary
Why are they playing a home game in Hungary?
If you were a pro soccer player, would you want to travel to Israel right now to play a match?
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2023, 06:55:06 PMIt is all going arseways for Zionism
Us Jews are turning away
Bipartisanship is breaking down
Millions are marching
I didn't realise you were Jewish Seaf
See Micheál Martin off on a tour PR Stunt with the Israeli Ambassador the rat
Quote from: general_lee on November 16, 2023, 02:54:08 PMSee Micheál Martin off on a tour PR Stunt with the Israeli Ambassador the rat
#Plámás
Quote from: general_lee on November 16, 2023, 02:54:08 PMSee Micheál Martin off on a tour PR Stunt with the Israeli Ambassador the rat
Poor Micheal, all dressed up in his bullet proof vest pointing at a small hole in a ceiling. He is such a gobshite. But of course you put yourself in that position and the Israelis are point cameras at you for their latest propaganda. I have no doubt they turn on the air raid sirens for effect too. Micheal thinks he is special forces now and will return to the Dail to tell us the terrible conditions he had to ordeal as they only had pepsi and no coke.
Quote from: Itchy on November 16, 2023, 04:27:30 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 16, 2023, 02:54:08 PMSee Micheál Martin off on a tour PR Stunt with the Israeli Ambassador the rat
Poor Micheal, all dressed up in his bullet proof vest pointing at a small hole in a ceiling. He is such a gobshite. But of course you put yourself in that position and the Israelis are point cameras at you for their latest propaganda. I have no doubt they turn on the air raid sirens for effect too. Micheal thinks he is special forces now and will return to the Dail to tell us the terrible conditions he had to ordeal as they only had pepsi and no coke.
Funny I thought the same also when the news mentioned that.
This guy is not covering himself in glory this last few months.
Quote from: general_lee on November 16, 2023, 02:54:08 PMSee Micheál Martin off on a tour PR Stunt with the Israeli Ambassador the rat
They have him dancing to their tune to get the Irish passport holders out
Quote from: LeoMc on November 16, 2023, 07:15:47 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 16, 2023, 02:54:08 PMSee Micheál Martin off on a tour PR Stunt with the Israeli Ambassador the rat
They have him dancing to their tune to get the Irish passport holders out
Why do we want them?
Quote from: burdizzo on November 16, 2023, 07:26:33 PMQuote from: LeoMc on November 16, 2023, 07:15:47 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 16, 2023, 02:54:08 PMSee Micheál Martin off on a tour PR Stunt with the Israeli Ambassador the rat
They have him dancing to their tune to get the Irish passport holders out
Why do we want them?
We want to keep in line with their paymasters (which are also ours).
Quote from: burdizzo on November 16, 2023, 07:26:33 PMQuote from: LeoMc on November 16, 2023, 07:15:47 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 16, 2023, 02:54:08 PMSee Micheál Martin off on a tour PR Stunt with the Israeli Ambassador the rat
They have him dancing to their tune to get the Irish passport holders out
Why do we want them?
who are the "we"?
Jeremy Bowen 10 o'clock news, "Israel's evidence at the Al Shifa hospital is frankly not very convincing".
Quote from: Sportacus on November 16, 2023, 10:15:20 PMJeremy Bowen 10 o'clock news, "Israel's evidence at the Al Shifa hospital is frankly not very convincing".
It's ridiculous that they can get away with "we will reveal evidence in a few days or weeks". They'll produce some footage of a tunnel complex nowhere near the hospital and of course the media will lap it up.
Quote from: Sportacus on November 16, 2023, 10:15:20 PMJeremy Bowen 10 o'clock news, "Israel's evidence at the Al Shifa hospital is frankly not very convincing".
He has been very fair and balanced compared to that Rosenberg chap they have in Moscow
Where all these fighters supposedly at, did they just jump across Israel imaginary line when they encircled the northern sector of Gaza?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 16, 2023, 11:57:39 PMWhere all these fighters supposedly at, did they just jump across Israel imaginary line when they encircled the northern sector of Gaza?
Clear and transparent, get with the programme.
Waterford Whispers wouldn't have a look in
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 16, 2023, 10:22:29 PMQuote from: Sportacus on November 16, 2023, 10:15:20 PMJeremy Bowen 10 o'clock news, "Israel's evidence at the Al Shifa hospital is frankly not very convincing".
It's ridiculous that they can get away with "we will reveal evidence in a few days or weeks". They'll produce some footage of a tunnel complex nowhere near the hospital and of course the media will lap it up.
They already have. One "tunnel" was an elevator shaft that anyone with half a brain would recognise. The other tunnel was actually a tunnel from Sweden. Then a list of hostages names in the basement was actually a calendar with the days of the week written on it.
Its bizarre stuff and its right out of the Trump book of lies. You can tell any lie, no matter how ridiculous, because people with a bias to your position will believe it anyway. Its a scary new concept in the war of propaganda.
Quote from: Sportacus on November 16, 2023, 10:15:20 PMJeremy Bowen 10 o'clock news, "Israel's evidence at the Al Shifa hospital is frankly not very convincing".
They wanted to damage the hospital. End of.
Quote from: seafoid on November 17, 2023, 08:56:21 AMQuote from: Sportacus on November 16, 2023, 10:15:20 PMJeremy Bowen 10 o'clock news, "Israel's evidence at the Al Shifa hospital is frankly not very convincing".
They wanted to damage the hospital. End of.
I see Bibi has admitted they were unsuccessful in their attempts to minimise Palestinian casualties, but that was Hamas fault....
Quote from: Itchy on November 17, 2023, 08:06:22 AMQuote from: Tony Baloney on November 16, 2023, 10:22:29 PMQuote from: Sportacus on November 16, 2023, 10:15:20 PMJeremy Bowen 10 o'clock news, "Israel's evidence at the Al Shifa hospital is frankly not very convincing".
It's ridiculous that they can get away with "we will reveal evidence in a few days or weeks". They'll produce some footage of a tunnel complex nowhere near the hospital and of course the media will lap it up.
They already have. One "tunnel" was an elevator shaft that anyone with half a brain would recognise. The other tunnel was actually a tunnel from Sweden. Then a list of hostages names in the basement was actually a calendar with the days of the week written on it.
Its bizarre stuff and its right out of the Trump book of lies. You can tell any lie, no matter how ridiculous, because people with a bias to your position will believe it anyway. Its a scary new concept in the war of propaganda.
What about the gums found behind the MRI machine, that apparently were not there on the first walk through.
1. The "finder" just went up to it and opened it, no attempt to check if it was booby trapped.
2. Hidden behind a Magnetic Resonance Imaging machine! I thought you couldn't have anything metal in the same room.
Quote from: Main Street on November 16, 2023, 10:10:41 PMQuote from: burdizzo on November 16, 2023, 07:26:33 PMQuote from: LeoMc on November 16, 2023, 07:15:47 PMQuote from: general_lee on November 16, 2023, 02:54:08 PMSee Micheál Martin off on a tour PR Stunt with the Israeli Ambassador the rat
They have him dancing to their tune to get the Irish passport holders out
Why do we want them?
who are the "we"?
You and me, baby - you and me.
Bowen: Ceasefire demands will grow without proof of Hamas HQ at Al-Shifa
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67453105
Mark Regev, Netanyahu spokesman on TV denying Israel have killed any children. If that doesn't get people to stop believing anything this regime says, I don't know what will.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2023, 04:57:01 PMMark Regev, Netanyahu spokesman on TV denying Israel have killed any children. If that doesn't get people to stop believing anything this regime says, I don't know what will.
He is a Jewish Goebbels
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2023, 04:57:01 PMMark Regev, Netanyahu spokesman on TV denying Israel have killed any children. If that doesn't get people to stop believing anything this regime says, I don't know what will.
The war criminals are absolutely shameless.
And Joe Biden facilitated it all.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 17, 2023, 05:31:42 PMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2023, 04:57:01 PMMark Regev, Netanyahu spokesman on TV denying Israel have killed any children. If that doesn't get people to stop believing anything this regime says, I don't know what will.
The war criminals are absolutely shameless.
And Joe Biden facilitated it all.
Regev also advised why they revised down the number of casualties from 1400 to 1200, because they thought they were Israeli but they were actually Hamas.
The reason they couldn't identify them was they were badly burned.
So either Israel killed them knowing they were Hamas and therefore you'd think wouldn't have counted them as Israeli casualities or Israel just killed indiscriminately in the Kibbutz and maybe elsewhere and had no idea if they were Hamas or Israeli.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 17, 2023, 07:42:28 PMQuote from: Rossfan on November 17, 2023, 05:31:42 PMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 17, 2023, 04:57:01 PMMark Regev, Netanyahu spokesman on TV denying Israel have killed any children. If that doesn't get people to stop believing anything this regime says, I don't know what will.
It is lower than 1200. They killed 112 Israelis in Kibbutz Be'eri and an unknown number fleeing from the festival.
The war criminals are absolutely shameless.
And Joe Biden facilitated it all.
Regev also advised why they revised down the number of casualties from 1400 to 1200, because they thought they were Israeli but they were actually Hamas.
The reason they couldn't identify them was they were badly burned.
So either Israel killed them knowing they were Hamas and therefore you'd think wouldn't have counted them as Israeli casualities or Israel just killed indiscriminately in the Kibbutz and maybe elsewhere and had no idea if they were Hamas or Israeli.
Anyone still a believer in anything Israel says. From no less than the BBC...
Even the videos produced so far have raised questions under scrutiny. A BBC analysis found the footage of an IDF spokesperson showing the apparent discovery of a bag containing a gun behind an MRI scanning machine, had been taped hours before the arrival of the journalists to whom he was supposedly showing it.
In a video shown later, the number of guns in the bag had doubled. The IDF claimed its video of what it found at the hospital was unedited, filmed in a single take, but the BBC analysis found it had been edited.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/17/idf-evidence-so-far-falls-well-short-of-al-shifa-hospital-being-hamas-hq?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1725481914562121794?t=WOi4EgDu-zFXKXwx-tg5iw&s=19
Quote from: Itchy on November 18, 2023, 10:45:56 AMAnyone still a believer in anything Israel says. From no less than the BBC...
Even the videos produced so far have raised questions under scrutiny. A BBC analysis found the footage of an IDF spokesperson showing the apparent discovery of a bag containing a gun behind an MRI scanning machine, had been taped hours before the arrival of the journalists to whom he was supposedly showing it.
In a video shown later, the number of guns in the bag had doubled. The IDF claimed its video of what it found at the hospital was unedited, filmed in a single take, but the BBC analysis found it had been edited.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/17/idf-evidence-so-far-falls-well-short-of-al-shifa-hospital-being-hamas-hq?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1725481914562121794?t=WOi4EgDu-zFXKXwx-tg5iw&s=19
i think it's all deliberate, it's all done to distract from their genocide, make the conversation be about what is truth and what is lie.. then the bigger picture of 75 plus years of ethic cleansing, genocide and apartheid is secondary
Biden has lost a lot of support amongst younger voters.
Israel had to sell $6bn in bonds to fund the war privately because a public issue was untouchable. Per financial times.
Glad to see Israel treatted as the pariah that is .
What a difference a few months makes. Ballina Co Mayo
https://twitter.com/ciarantierney/status/1725802697624862842?t=QnuLpmli19tXzoCR3CzChg&s=19
haaretz released some new details about Israeli actions on Oct 7th.
Yes Israel helicopter killed people at the infamous rave.
The magnificent Norman Finkelstein
https://twitter.com/CandaceOwensPod/status/1725622973531394227?t=Ps7luW60aRerSM4FjcrT3Q&s=19
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 18, 2023, 08:14:23 PMhaaretz released some new details about Israeli actions on Oct 7th.
Yeah Hamas weren't involved ???
That footage of them shooting into the portable toilets and shelters was AI
Few of you have a few slates on the slide on here. You will believe pretty much any piece of nonsense on Twitter if it supports your position
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 18, 2023, 11:27:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 18, 2023, 08:14:23 PMhaaretz released some new details about Israeli actions on Oct 7th.
Yeah Hamas weren't involved ???
That footage of them shooting into the portable toilets and shelters was AI
Few of you have a few slates on the slide on here. You will believe pretty much any piece of nonsense on Twitter if it supports your position
who said Hamas weren't involved??
Maybe it's you with 'a few slates on the slide'.
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 18, 2023, 11:52:07 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 18, 2023, 11:27:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 18, 2023, 08:14:23 PMhaaretz released some new details about Israeli actions on Oct 7th.
Yeah Hamas weren't involved ???
That footage of them shooting into the portable toilets and shelters was AI
Few of you have a few slates on the slide on here. You will believe pretty much any piece of nonsense on Twitter if it supports your position
who said Hamas weren't involved??
Maybe it's you with 'a few slates on the slide'.
If you read the two boys (PHP & Seafoid) previous posts on what's happened at the music festival, well let's just say it's out there. Anything that shows their heroes Hamas in not such a horrific light
You're just wrong on this.
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 19, 2023, 12:14:53 AMQuote from: SHEEDY on November 18, 2023, 11:52:07 PMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 18, 2023, 11:27:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 18, 2023, 08:14:23 PMhaaretz released some new details about Israeli actions on Oct 7th.
Yeah Hamas weren't involved ???
That footage of them shooting into the portable toilets and shelters was AI
Few of you have a few slates on the slide on here. You will believe pretty much any piece of nonsense on Twitter if it supports your position
who said Hamas weren't involved??
Maybe it's you with 'a few slates on the slide'.
If you read the two boys (PHP & Seafoid) previous posts on what's happened at the music festival, well let's just say it's out there. Anything that shows their heroes Hamas in not such a horrific light
I dont speak for seafoid, but show me my post where I posted Hamas weren't involved or anything out there on the 'music festival'.
All I have have done is quote Israeli media or other media sources that quote israeli media, actual hostages and reference some comments from Mark Regev. All either directly say or point to Israels direct responsibility for some of the Israeli dead.
it's appears it's you who believes nonsense from on twitter.
Footage of Hamas fighters taking abducted Israelis into Shifaa hospital on 7 October
Maybe they were in need of medical attention...?!!
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 19, 2023, 07:31:59 PMFootage of Hamas fighters taking abducted Israelis into Shifaa hospital on 7 October
Where is this footage?
Quote from: Itchy on November 19, 2023, 08:13:09 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on November 19, 2023, 07:31:59 PMFootage of Hamas fighters taking abducted Israelis into Shifaa hospital on 7 October
Where is this footage?
times of israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/surveillance-footage-shows-hamas-bringing-hostages-into-shifa-hospital-on-oct-7/
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 19, 2023, 08:29:58 PMQuote from: Itchy on November 19, 2023, 08:13:09 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on November 19, 2023, 07:31:59 PMFootage of Hamas fighters taking abducted Israelis into Shifaa hospital on 7 October
Where is this footage?
times of israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/surveillance-footage-shows-hamas-bringing-hostages-into-shifa-hospital-on-oct-7/
So they brought them for medical treatment, I don't see what the accusation is here from the IDF.
I seen this 11 minute clip on twitter many times
https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/1726287377553829901?t=WV20TfJ7diM3TReTrUhqPw&s=19
song of friendship
https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1726342439974178825?t=gWYQaBu0Xnd2f6bLhSiecg&s=19
why are sinn fein types not protesting genocide in sudan
Quote from: Eire90 on November 20, 2023, 03:35:36 AMwhy are sinn fein types not protesting genocide in sudan
surely everyone should protest a gencoide why is up to the "sinn fein types". It has been explained many times on the thread why 75 years of occupation of Palestine is more to the fore of people minds.
Any idea why 'never again' is not 'never again' in Palestine. Why the EU (borrells) and US Holocaust Museum can warn of genocide in Sudan but not Palestine?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 20, 2023, 08:21:21 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 20, 2023, 03:35:36 AMwhy are sinn fein types not protesting genocide in sudan
surely everyone should protest a gencoide why is up to the "sinn fein types". It has been explained many times on the thread why 75 years of occupation of Palestine is more to the fore of people minds.
Any idea why 'never again' is not 'never again' in Palestine. Why the EU (borrells) and US Holocaust Museum can warn of genocide in Sudan but not Palestine?
Because Sinn Fein-types have taken on the whole "slave-morality" thing too much to heart. A bit rich, of course, because it's easy to construe, as some do, that Sinn Fein, in border areas, essentially defended a campaign of ethnic-cleansing.
Its funny how the Far Right Types have most hatred for Sinn Fein over any other party.
It's because Sinn Fein is happy to let people see it as a nationalist party, when it's actually anything but.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:31:59 AMIt's because Sinn Fein is happy to let people see it as a nationalist party, when it's actually anything but.
Thanks for showing everyone you are a Far Right type.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 08:54:36 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 20, 2023, 08:21:21 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 20, 2023, 03:35:36 AMwhy are sinn fein types not protesting genocide in sudan
surely everyone should protest a gencoide why is up to the "sinn fein types". It has been explained many times on the thread why 75 years of occupation of Palestine is more to the fore of people minds.
Any idea why 'never again' is not 'never again' in Palestine. Why the EU (borrells) and US Holocaust Museum can warn of genocide in Sudan but not Palestine?
Because Sinn Fein-types have taken on the whole "slave-morality" thing too much to heart. A bit rich, of course, because it's easy to construe, as some do, that Sinn Fein, in border areas, essentially defended a campaign of ethnic-cleansing.
Ethnic cleansing??!??!?! Willie Frazer has come back from the dead. He wants his slogan back.
What sort of a clown are you burdizzo, in all seriousness?
Quote from: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 09:33:57 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:31:59 AMIt's because Sinn Fein is happy to let people see it as a nationalist party, when it's actually anything but.
Thanks for showing everyone you are a Far Right type.
To you, anyone you don't agree with is 'far-right'. It's utterly meaningless.
Quote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 09:34:41 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 08:54:36 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 20, 2023, 08:21:21 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 20, 2023, 03:35:36 AMwhy are sinn fein types not protesting genocide in sudan
surely everyone should protest a gencoide why is up to the "sinn fein types". It has been explained many times on the thread why 75 years of occupation of Palestine is more to the fore of people minds.
Any idea why 'never again' is not 'never again' in Palestine. Why the EU (borrells) and US Holocaust Museum can warn of genocide in Sudan but not Palestine?
Because Sinn Fein-types have taken on the whole "slave-morality" thing too much to heart. A bit rich, of course, because it's easy to construe, as some do, that Sinn Fein, in border areas, essentially defended a campaign of ethnic-cleansing.
Ethnic cleansing??!??!?! Willie Frazer has come back from the dead. He wants his slogan back.
What sort of a clown are you burdizzo, in all seriousness?
Can you read?
Quote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:37:25 AMQuote from: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 09:33:57 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:31:59 AMIt's because Sinn Fein is happy to let people see it as a nationalist party, when it's actually anything but.
Thanks for showing everyone you are a Far Right type.
To you, anyone you don't agree with is 'far-right'. It's utterly meaningless.
You are the man who came on criticing SF, then explained why the far right doesnt like them. You defined yourself as far right
Quote from: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 09:38:35 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:37:25 AMQuote from: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 09:33:57 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:31:59 AMIt's because Sinn Fein is happy to let people see it as a nationalist party, when it's actually anything but.
Thanks for showing everyone you are a Far Right type.
To you, anyone you don't agree with is 'far-right'. It's utterly meaningless.
You are the man who came on criticing SF, then explained why the far right doesnt like them. You defined yourself as far right
A - so fecking what?
B - explaining why the so-called "far-right" doesn't like Sinn Fein isn't exactly placing myself as far-right. I could also explain to dimwits why loyalists don't like Sinn Fein without being a loyalist. Duh.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:38:16 AMQuote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 09:34:41 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 08:54:36 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 20, 2023, 08:21:21 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 20, 2023, 03:35:36 AMwhy are sinn fein types not protesting genocide in sudan
surely everyone should protest a gencoide why is up to the "sinn fein types". It has been explained many times on the thread why 75 years of occupation of Palestine is more to the fore of people minds.
Any idea why 'never again' is not 'never again' in Palestine. Why the EU (borrells) and US Holocaust Museum can warn of genocide in Sudan but not Palestine?
Because Sinn Fein-types have taken on the whole "slave-morality" thing too much to heart. A bit rich, of course, because it's easy to construe, as some do, that Sinn Fein, in border areas, essentially defended a campaign of ethnic-cleansing.
Ethnic cleansing??!??!?! Willie Frazer has come back from the dead. He wants his slogan back.
What sort of a clown are you burdizzo, in all seriousness?
Can you read?
Can you?
If so, would you like me to post links to a series of acedemic studies that absolutely rubbish any suggestion of "ethnic cleansing" in the border region?
Pipe down, Willie.
Quote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 09:43:50 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:38:16 AMQuote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 09:34:41 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 08:54:36 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 20, 2023, 08:21:21 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 20, 2023, 03:35:36 AMwhy are sinn fein types not protesting genocide in sudan
surely everyone should protest a gencoide why is up to the "sinn fein types". It has been explained many times on the thread why 75 years of occupation of Palestine is more to the fore of people minds.
Any idea why 'never again' is not 'never again' in Palestine. Why the EU (borrells) and US Holocaust Museum can warn of genocide in Sudan but not Palestine?
Because Sinn Fein-types have taken on the whole "slave-morality" thing too much to heart. A bit rich, of course, because it's easy to construe, as some do, that Sinn Fein, in border areas, essentially defended a campaign of ethnic-cleansing.
Ethnic cleansing??!??!?! Willie Frazer has come back from the dead. He wants his slogan back.
What sort of a clown are you burdizzo, in all seriousness?
Can you read?
Can you?
If so, would you like me to post links to a series of acedemic studies that absolutely rubbish any suggestion of "ethnic cleansing" in the border region?
Pipe down, Willie.
I didn't say I was construing it that way, I merely said some do.
Back to comprehension school, little boy.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:46:23 AMQuote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 09:43:50 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:38:16 AMQuote from: Snapchap on November 20, 2023, 09:34:41 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 08:54:36 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 20, 2023, 08:21:21 AMQuote from: Eire90 on November 20, 2023, 03:35:36 AMwhy are sinn fein types not protesting genocide in sudan
surely everyone should protest a gencoide why is up to the "sinn fein types". It has been explained many times on the thread why 75 years of occupation of Palestine is more to the fore of people minds.
Any idea why 'never again' is not 'never again' in Palestine. Why the EU (borrells) and US Holocaust Museum can warn of genocide in Sudan but not Palestine?
Because Sinn Fein-types have taken on the whole "slave-morality" thing too much to heart. A bit rich, of course, because it's easy to construe, as some do, that Sinn Fein, in border areas, essentially defended a campaign of ethnic-cleansing.
Ethnic cleansing??!??!?! Willie Frazer has come back from the dead. He wants his slogan back.
What sort of a clown are you burdizzo, in all seriousness?
Can you read?
Can you?
If so, would you like me to post links to a series of acedemic studies that absolutely rubbish any suggestion of "ethnic cleansing" in the border region?
Pipe down, Willie.
I didn't say I was construing it that way, I merely said some do.
Back to comprehension school, little boy.
And some people believe the eath is flat. But what would be the point in me posting to the thread the outlandish, fanciful, easily disproved claims of what some people actually "construe" as fact?
But thanks for the explanation anyway, Willie. I assume you're saying that you certainly weren't saying you regard the IRA campaign in the border as "ethnic cleansing" of course?
I deliberately didn't say I saw it as such, and constructed my sentence in a way that should lead to no misunderstanding - for people with normal comprehension skills, that is.
Quote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:42:13 AMQuote from: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 09:38:35 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:37:25 AMQuote from: Itchy on November 20, 2023, 09:33:57 AMQuote from: burdizzo on November 20, 2023, 09:31:59 AMIt's because Sinn Fein is happy to let people see it as a nationalist party, when it's actually anything but.
Thanks for showing everyone you are a Far Right type.
To you, anyone you don't agree with is 'far-right'. It's utterly meaningless.
You are the man who came on criticing SF, then explained why the far right doesnt like them. You defined yourself as far right
A - so fecking what?
B - explaining why the so-called "far-right" doesn't like Sinn Fein isn't exactly placing myself as far-right. I could also explain to dimwits why loyalists don't like Sinn Fein without being a loyalist. Duh.
A - Good for you if you are happy to be Far Right. Personally I see them as a group of racists and the perpetrators of the greatest slaughter of innocent people in the history of mankind in Nazi Germany.
B- That is great that you can make explanations to Dimwits. However you didn't make that explanation, you instead offered a explanation for the far right.
Israel only knows how to lash out .
Good show on bbc 4 about the 50yr war, Just like in India, Britain had left a shit storm behind them at the time.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 20, 2023, 11:50:44 PMGood show on bbc 4 about the 50yr war, Just lin India, Britain had left a shit storm behind them at the time.
Any occupying country that leaves, creates chaos
As we only know too well ☹️
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2023, 10:34:50 AMAs we only know too well ☹️
Ireland is doing better economically now than the UK
Looks like a 4 day pause and hostage swap is going to happen. Then Israel can get back to murdering children again.
Fingers crossed that pause gets extended.
In 2017 Trump and the Israelis were proposing to move Gaza to Sinai already. It would only move the problem 20 miles down the road.
2017
"This is a long term plan as described here Minister claims Netanyahu, Trump will push for Palestinian state in Sinai" : https://www.timesofisrael.com/minister-claims-netanyahu-trump-will-push-for-palestinian-state-in-sinai/ and here
IS TRUMP EYEING A PLAN TO EXPAND A PALESTINIAN STATE INTO SINAI?: https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Is-Trump-eyeing-a-plan-to-expand-a-Palestinian-state-into-Sinai-515838
"Trump Administration Will Ask Gulf States to Invest Up to $1 Billion in Gaza Economy
Most projects, like port and solar energy grid, planned for northern Sinai near border ■ Sources: Kushner, Greenblatt will raise issue on upcoming Mideast trip to generate momentum before peace plan unveiling":
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-admin-wants-gulf-states-to-invest-up-to-1-billion-for-gaza-1.6180191
... "According to these sources, Kushner and Greenblatt hope to secure funding from the Gulf states and the cooperation of Israel and Egypt in implementing the economic projects.
The White House declined to elaborate, telling Haaretz that the administration "won't discuss specifics before the conversations have taken place." Kushner and Greenblatt are heading to the Middle East this week for talks focusing on both Gaza and the administration's upcoming peace plan.
According to Israeli sources, one option being discussed is a solar energy project that would serve some of Gaza's energy needs. It would be built near the Egyptian town of El-Arish in northern Sinai. The sources said that overall the White House hoped that somewhere between $500 million and $1 billion would be raised.
.....Among long-term projects to serve Gaza would be the construction of a port in northern Sinai and the building of a power plant and water desalination plant. The general framework of most of the projects is construction in northern Sinai near the Gaza border. Such undertakings could create jobs for thousands of Gazans.
Some of these ideas were first raised by Maj. Gen. (ret.) Yoav Mordechai, who until recently was the coordinator of government activities in the territories. Mordechai represented Israel at a Gaza conference at the White House earlier this year.
As Haaretz reported last month, the plans being considered include a new industrial zone, desalination plants and plants making construction materials in northern Sinai.
this is why kurshner is not revealing the plan." see the interview http://www.alquds.com/articles/1529825341641719400/
Israel is such a parasite.
That Irish child Emily Hand (9) is hopefully going to be released from the Hamas brutes. God only knows what that child has suffered.
Hopefully poir Emily gets home.
Meanwhile 5,000 children in Gaza can't go home, in this World anyway😢
Quote from: Rossfan on November 22, 2023, 04:41:18 PMHopefully poir Emily gets home.
Meanwhile 5,000 children in Gaza can't go home, in this World anyway😢
Israeli leaders should be in The Hague.
It's an absolute disgrace on all sides.
Quote from: Itchy on November 22, 2023, 01:42:23 PMLooks like a 4 day pause and hostage swap is going to happen. Then Israel can get back to murdering children again.
seen this. Also one art of it is that Gazans who fled the north of the strip are not allowed to return home. But it was always about Hamas eh???
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1727308258015089034?t=PfztXf2HfevXJrzsG8hagw&s=19
child prisoners.
hostages not being released until Friday according to Israelis. Heavy bombardment of Gaza last few years (edit- i meant hours but sadly both fit)
Israel should be boycotted and sanctioned.
What prevents the UN moving into a situation like this as peacekeepers and putting troops on the ground?
They have done in the past e.g. Yugoslavia in the 90s albeit with varying degrees of success.
Quote from: LC on November 23, 2023, 09:14:37 AMWhat prevents the UN moving into a situation like this as peacekeepers and putting troops on the ground?
They have done in the past e.g. Yugoslavia in the 90s albeit with varying degrees of success.
The good ole US of A, that's who.
They'd veto it.
Exactly!
Quote from: LC on November 23, 2023, 09:14:37 AMWhat prevents the UN moving into a situation like this as peacekeepers and putting troops on the ground?
They have done in the past e.g. Yugoslavia in the 90s albeit with varying degrees of success.
The UN is the biggest pile of shite. A cop out. USA, UK, France, Russia and China permanently vetoing each other. A cover for bullshit that achieves precisely nothing.
Quote from: LC on November 23, 2023, 09:14:37 AMWhat prevents the UN moving into a situation like this as peacekeepers and putting troops on the ground?
They have done in the past e.g. Yugoslavia in the 90s albeit with varying degrees of success.
Absolutely useless entity, this is the norm from the UN. They stood back fully armed just outside of the town of Srebrenica and watched the massacre in Bosnia. I really don't get it's existence when warmonger members like the U S can veto any intervention when atrocities are being committed.
https://www.tbsnews.net/hamas-israel-war/msnbc-suspends-three-muslim-anchors-amid-hamas-israel-conflict-719002
Now Medhi Hassan has been silenced, is there any western media outlets left that can exorcise impartial journalism without being censored. He's the best in the business.
Agreed on the UN
Uncle Sam decides who it's OK to massacre and who it isn't
Though Srebrenica doesn't even touch the sides in comparison to this
In Srebrenica they spared the women and children
The Israeli genocide machine is obliterating anything that moves
Quote from: Franko on November 23, 2023, 11:56:26 AMAgreed on the UN
Uncle Sam decides who it's OK to massacre and who it isn't
Though Srebrenica doesn't even touch the sides in comparison to this
In Srebrenica they spared the women and children
The Israeli genocide machine is obliterating anything that moves
They didn't spare young male children and there was plenty of rapes reported. It took twenty years to bring those animals to justice, let's hope todays war criminals ( western powers ) eventually get charged.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on November 23, 2023, 12:09:01 PMQuote from: Franko on November 23, 2023, 11:56:26 AMAgreed on the UN
Uncle Sam decides who it's OK to massacre and who it isn't
Though Srebrenica doesn't even touch the sides in comparison to this
In Srebrenica they spared the women and children
The Israeli genocide machine is obliterating anything that moves
They didn't spare young male children and there was plenty of rapes reported. It took twenty years to bring those animals to justice, let's hope todays war criminals ( western powers ) eventually get charged.
There is not a pups chance of that happening
Because to do this Sunak, Biden and Von der Leyen would have to end up in The Hague along with Netanyahu
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 20, 2023, 11:50:44 PMGood show on bbc 4 about the 50yr war, Just like in India, Britain had left a shit storm behind them at the time.
Is that the 6 part "The Fifty Years War: Israel and the Arabs" ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0glc7yp/the-fifty-years-war-israel-and-the-arabs
I download the series from You Tube, it's excellent, on a par with the BBC's 6 part mini series on the aftermath of the break up of Yugoslavia, "The Death of Yugoslavia".
Yes that the one, didn't really know about how the PLO nearly destabilised Jordan, and the christian/ Muslim massacres background in Lebanon. Israel really depends on the region been unstable with different Arab nations at their throats, in a way, but like Catholic and Protestant over here.
The problem with UN is actually the veto, if it was outta the way, and let the majority rule carry. They had any balls on them they put forward to do away with the veto, and any if the big 5 argue, tell them to go take a run and jump and put them out. This was created from WW2 when the winners tried split up most of the world between them and think it should still apply nearly 75yrs later
Emily Hand was released. Haven't seen any comments on how she was treated but the hostages released the previous days were reported to have be treated well.
she survived the hostage taking, and over a month of constant indiscriminate bombing from Israel.
irish ambassador now been called in by Israel for Leo's tweet (taken out of context tweet) to be reprimanded!!!!
Statements from Martin and Leo didn't mention the 8000 plus murdered by Israel or mentioned an extended ceasefire. motions from opposition parties all criticised from not mentioning Hamas but no issue ignoring Israeli crimes when issuing statements themselves.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:24:01 AMEmily Hand was released. Haven't seen any comments on how she was treated but the hostages released the previous days were reported to have be treated well.
she survived the hostage taking, and over a month of constant indiscriminate bombing from Israel.
irish ambassador now been called in by Israel for Leo's tweet (taken out of context tweet) to be reprimanded!!!!
Statements from Martin and Leo didn't mention the 8000 plus murdered by Israel or mentioned an extended ceasefire. motions from opposition parties all criticised from not mentioning Hamas but no issue ignoring Israeli crimes when issuing statements themselves.
Yeah those details need to come out immediately so you and Itchy can type furiously on an Internet messaging board to castigate her father for the criticism he had for Hamas. Amazing.
You are an embarrassment
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 26, 2023, 11:45:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:24:01 AMEmily Hand was released. Haven't seen any comments on how she was treated but the hostages released the previous days were reported to have be treated well.
she survived the hostage taking, and over a month of constant indiscriminate bombing from Israel.
irish ambassador now been called in by Israel for Leo's tweet (taken out of context tweet) to be reprimanded!!!!
Statements from Martin and Leo didn't mention the 8000 plus murdered by Israel or mentioned an extended ceasefire. motions from opposition parties all criticised from not mentioning Hamas but no issue ignoring Israeli crimes when issuing statements themselves.
Yeah those details need to come out immediately so you and Itchy can type furiously on an Internet messaging board to castigate her father for the criticism he had for Hamas. Amazing.
You are an embarrassment
He can critise who he wants as can I. I am a father, I cannot imagine what he has gone through but equally there is over 8,000 murdered children in Gaza in the last 40 odd days, more children who have been permanently injured, more who lost brothers, sisters and parents, who are easily forgotten but the likes of you and by western governments. that's way worst than embarrassing.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:59:01 AMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 26, 2023, 11:45:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:24:01 AMEmily Hand was released. Haven't seen any comments on how she was treated but the hostages released the previous days were reported to have be treated well.
she survived the hostage taking, and over a month of constant indiscriminate bombing from Israel.
irish ambassador now been called in by Israel for Leo's tweet (taken out of context tweet) to be reprimanded!!!!
Statements from Martin and Leo didn't mention the 8000 plus murdered by Israel or mentioned an extended ceasefire. motions from opposition parties all criticised from not mentioning Hamas but no issue ignoring Israeli crimes when issuing statements themselves.
Yeah those details need to come out immediately so you and Itchy can type furiously on an Internet messaging board to castigate her father for the criticism he had for Hamas. Amazing.
You are an embarrassment
He can critise who he wants as can I. I am a father, I cannot imagine what he has gone through but equally there is over 8,000 murdered children in Gaza in the last 40 odd days, more children who have been permanently injured, more who lost brothers, sisters and parents, who are easily forgotten but the likes of you and by western governments. that's embarrassing.
You should have stopped there, you haven't been through anything & just admit you didn't like it when he criticised your heroes Hamas at the time.
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 26, 2023, 12:03:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:59:01 AMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 26, 2023, 11:45:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:24:01 AMEmily Hand was released. Haven't seen any comments on how she was treated but the hostages released the previous days were reported to have be treated well.
she survived the hostage taking, and over a month of constant indiscriminate bombing from Israel.
irish ambassador now been called in by Israel for Leo's tweet (taken out of context tweet) to be reprimanded!!!!
Statements from Martin and Leo didn't mention the 8000 plus murdered by Israel or mentioned an extended ceasefire. motions from opposition parties all criticised from not mentioning Hamas but no issue ignoring Israeli crimes when issuing statements themselves.
Yeah those details need to come out immediately so you and Itchy can type furiously on an Internet messaging board to castigate her father for the criticism he had for Hamas. Amazing.
You are an embarrassment
He can critise who he wants as can I. I am a father, I cannot imagine what he has gone through but equally there is over 8,000 murdered children in Gaza in the last 40 odd days, more children who have been permanently injured, more who lost brothers, sisters and parents, who are easily forgotten but the likes of you and by western governments. that's embarrassing.
You should have stopped there, you haven't been through anything & just admit you didn't like it when he criticised Hamas at the time.
I think I'll stick you on the ignore list with a few others.
1. I never said I had been through anything. 2. I never commented on his original comments. 3. I am not waiting on anything to be said about how hostages were treated to castigate her father. 4. I have critised Hamas. 5 hamas are not my heros
that's five false or misleading statements in two posts. you are not worth my time.
Tit for tat shite!
Condemning the Israeli Government for murdering 5,000+ children and 9,000 other Gazan people doesn't mean Hamas are "your heroes"
Well, 118 pages in. Has anyone's lives been enriched or improved by posting or reading anything in this thread?
Quote from: Deerstalker on November 26, 2023, 12:03:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:59:01 AMQuote from: Deerstalker on November 26, 2023, 11:45:45 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:24:01 AMEmily Hand was released. Haven't seen any comments on how she was treated but the hostages released the previous days were reported to have be treated well.
she survived the hostage taking, and over a month of constant indiscriminate bombing from Israel.
irish ambassador now been called in by Israel for Leo's tweet (taken out of context tweet) to be reprimanded!!!!
Statements from Martin and Leo didn't mention the 8000 plus murdered by Israel or mentioned an extended ceasefire. motions from opposition parties all criticised from not mentioning Hamas but no issue ignoring Israeli crimes when issuing statements themselves.
Yeah those details need to come out immediately so you and Itchy can type furiously on an Internet messaging board to castigate her father for the criticism he had for Hamas. Amazing.
You are an embarrassment
He can critise who he wants as can I. I am a father, I cannot imagine what he has gone through but equally there is over 8,000 murdered children in Gaza in the last 40 odd days, more children who have been permanently injured, more who lost brothers, sisters and parents, who are easily forgotten but the likes of you and by western governments. that's embarrassing.
You should have stopped there, you haven't been through anything & just admit you didn't like it when he criticised your heroes Hamas at the time.
Hamas are the baddies. As is Israel.
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 26, 2023, 12:40:15 PMWell, 118 pages in. Has anyone's lives been enriched or improved by posting or reading anything in this thread?
For some, more entrenched
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 26, 2023, 12:40:15 PMWell, 118 pages in. Has anyone's lives been enriched or improved by posting or reading anything in this thread?
is that the purpose of this board to enrich and improve people lives?
I read the board for years, basically it a source of info. you might not otherwise find else or opinions of others you might not find elsewhere.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 12:58:36 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on November 26, 2023, 12:40:15 PMWell, 118 pages in. Has anyone's lives been enriched or improved by posting or reading anything in this thread?
is that the purpose of this board to enrich and improve people lives?
I read the board for years, basically it a source of info. you might not otherwise find else or opinions of others you might not find elsewhere.
👍
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 12:58:36 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on November 26, 2023, 12:40:15 PMWell, 118 pages in. Has anyone's lives been enriched or improved by posting or reading anything in this thread?
is that the purpose of this board to enrich and improve people lives?
I read the board for years, basically it a source of info. you might not otherwise find else or opinions of others you might not find elsewhere.
It's always been for some a soapbox, help with problems, a source of information, a bitta craic, insightful, the odd friendship, inside info on all things GAA, and of course the bitter battles on all thing's political.
You won't say certain things here to someone's face or have that conversation with a work colleague, so it escalates.. a time out now and then can help
There are lads on here I'd say from before they were married to being in the house on their own while their kids have flown the nest.
Quote from: Rossfan on November 26, 2023, 12:18:54 PMCondemning the Israeli Government for murdering 5,000+ children and 9,000 other Gazan people doesn't mean Hamas are "your heroes"
Nor is it 'shite' as has been said
Great to see the wee girl Hand being reunited with her father. Could get a bit awkward but I hope she never finds out.
Mad how the mind works amidst all the Israeli propaganda
They (Israel) are fairly going after Ireland. Over the top reaction to Leo's tweet, calling in the ambassador to give a dressing down (she should refuse), and claims the Hands were refused a hotel in Dublin without any proof. Accusing the Taoiseach of no moral compass after all the civilians they've slaughtered. You couldn't make it up.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:24:01 AMEmily Hand was released. Haven't seen any comments on how she was treated but the hostages released the previous days were reported to have be treated well.
she survived the hostage taking, and over a month of constant indiscriminate bombing from Israel.
irish ambassador now been called in by Israel for Leo's tweet (taken out of context tweet) to be reprimanded!!!!
Statements from Martin and Leo didn't mention the 8000 plus murdered by Israel or mentioned an extended ceasefire. motions from opposition parties all criticised from not mentioning Hamas but no issue ignoring Israeli crimes when issuing statements themselves.
That's on the tweet now.
(https://i.ibb.co/LY3HcGz/bandicam-2023-11-26-20-52-37-238.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 26, 2023, 08:57:29 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 11:24:01 AMEmily Hand was released. Haven't seen any comments on how she was treated but the hostages released the previous days were reported to have be treated well.
she survived the hostage taking, and over a month of constant indiscriminate bombing from Israel.
irish ambassador now been called in by Israel for Leo's tweet (taken out of context tweet) to be reprimanded!!!!
Statements from Martin and Leo didn't mention the 8000 plus murdered by Israel or mentioned an extended ceasefire. motions from opposition parties all criticised from not mentioning Hamas but no issue ignoring Israeli crimes when issuing statements themselves.
That's on the tweet now.
(https://i.ibb.co/LY3HcGz/bandicam-2023-11-26-20-52-37-238.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I'm no fan of Leo or FG but the full statement was clearer.
BBC having some trouble with translations!!!!
https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1728869569446736149?t=wTv7sC1xBLGRSnPv6C7iow&s=19
Has Israel declared war on metaphor too?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 26, 2023, 01:47:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 12:58:36 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on November 26, 2023, 12:40:15 PMWell, 118 pages in. Has anyone's lives been enriched or improved by posting or reading anything in this thread?
is that the purpose of this board to enrich and improve people lives?
I read the board for years, basically it a source of info. you might not otherwise find else or opinions of others you might not find elsewhere.
It's always been for some a soapbox, help with problems, a source of information, a bitta craic, insightful, the odd friendship, inside info on all things GAA, and of course the bitter battles on all thing's political.
You won't say certain things here to someone's face or have that conversation with a work colleague, so it escalates.. a time out now and then can help
There are lads on here I'd say from before they were married to being in the house on their own while their kids have flown the nest.
Most probably the kids along with the mother :D
Quote from: Main Street on November 27, 2023, 12:19:36 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on November 26, 2023, 01:47:58 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 26, 2023, 12:58:36 PMQuote from: RedHand88 on November 26, 2023, 12:40:15 PMWell, 118 pages in. Has anyone's lives been enriched or improved by posting or reading anything in this thread?
is that the purpose of this board to enrich and improve people lives?
I read the board for years, basically it a source of info. you might not otherwise find else or opinions of others you might not find elsewhere.
It's always been for some a soapbox, help with problems, a source of information, a bitta craic, insightful, the odd friendship, inside info on all things GAA, and of course the bitter battles on all thing's political.
You won't say certain things here to someone's face or have that conversation with a work colleague, so it escalates.. a time out now and then can help
There are lads on here I'd say from before they were married to being in the house on their own while their kids have flown the nest.
Most probably the kids along with the mother :D
No such luck lol
Dunphy has had some good interviews on his The Stand podcast.
A few with Peter Oborne, who is excellent. He was in the West Bank for about 5 weeks post October 7, so could witness the goings on there which gets very little media attention.
He had one with a military strategist, which was pretty much ignoring right/wrong, but discussing tactics, etc. One interesting assertion he made was that the cell system used (i.e. an agreed overall objective but individual cells have the authority to go about things pretty much anyway they decide, and no interaction between cells, etc). Apparently the first recorded use in military history of the cell system was by Michael Collins.
They also talked about the Why now? (as opposed to why?) re Hamas and he believed it was because of the Israel-Saudi deal that was about to be signed, with others going to follow with similar deals.
Finally, well worth a listen is Episode 1836 with Avi Shlaim. An Arab Jew who served in the Israeli Defence Forces in the 1960s, and according to Oborne has the best books on the history of the Palestine/Israel issue.
40 mins is too short for the full history of course, but it touched on key events in 1917, 1948, the late 60s, 1995 and present day.
Quote from: weareros on November 26, 2023, 08:45:32 PMThey (Israel) are fairly going after Ireland. Over the top reaction to Leo's tweet, calling in the ambassador to give a dressing down (she should refuse), and claims the Hands were refused a hotel in Dublin without any proof. Accusing the Taoiseach of no moral compass after all the civilians they've slaughtered. You couldn't make it up.
Our ambassador bring summonsed for a dressing down over the comments. Their ambassador hasn't had one yet.
Quote from: Hound on November 27, 2023, 11:19:45 AMHe had one with a military strategist, which was pretty much ignoring right/wrong, but discussing tactics, etc. One interesting assertion he made was that the cell system used (i.e. an agreed overall objective but individual cells have the authority to go about things pretty much anyway they decide, and no interaction between cells, etc). Apparently the first recorded use in military history of the cell system was by Michael Collins.
Didn't the IRB use a cell system in the 19th century?
Ceasefire extended for 2 days
There is a museum in Berlin based in a WW2 bunker that aims to show how ideoligies such as Nazism end.
Zionism is such an ideology.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 26, 2023, 10:13:16 PMHas Israel declared war on metaphor too?
The Israeli outrage machine is well oiled. Anything that even slightly questions the official narrative is seized upon with rampant allegations of "antisemitism." Anything that can be misrepresented is misrepresented, even when it's a harmless statement by the Taoiseach. The purpose is to scare people into silence with attacks on word choices that deviate by as little as one degree from the official line of
Hamas=bad, Israel=good. And it's working. I'm finding myself afraid to speak out on social media in case I lose my job or something. This is Orwellian sh*t.
Jim Shannon says grey squirrels are the Hamas of the squirrel world.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 05:39:52 PMJim Shannon says grey squirrels are the Hamas of the squirrel world.
Fúckin moron...
If anything the Grey squirrel with their origins in North America and taking over the indigenous red squirrels habitat are more like the Zionists than Hamas.
But as I say he's a blowpipe stealing moron.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 05:39:52 PMJim Shannon says grey squirrels are the Hamas of the squirrel world.
If only Jim could look at history with a well balanced impartial perspective, then he could find the grey squirrel isn't the first unsavoury species to come here and try to oust the indigenous one.
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 05:39:52 PMJim Shannon says grey squirrels are the Hamas of the squirrel world.
I saw that, what a clampet. I would say he would know a lot about the whole thing, I would also say the back of a stamp would be sufficient to escapstulate his greater thoughts on the matter.
Quote from: winsamsoon on November 30, 2023, 10:47:34 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 05:39:52 PMJim Shannon says grey squirrels are the Hamas of the squirrel world.
I saw that, what a clampet. I would say he would know a lot about the whole thing, I would also say the back of a stamp would be sufficient to escapstulate his greater thoughts on the matter.
this was actually serious?
Quote from: tonto1888 on November 30, 2023, 10:59:17 AMQuote from: winsamsoon on November 30, 2023, 10:47:34 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on November 29, 2023, 05:39:52 PMJim Shannon says grey squirrels are the Hamas of the squirrel world.
I saw that, what a clampet. I would say he would know a lot about the whole thing, I would also say the back of a stamp would be sufficient to escapstulate his greater thoughts on the matter.
this was actually serious?
Said it in parliament.
Just think, people actually vote for him. If they were Turkeys, they vote for Christmas
Israel is bombing again
There were some people shot by Hamas in Jerusalem and an Isreali shot the attackers. Then the IDF arrived and shot him (maybe this should be in the wtf thread)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/family-says-yuval-castleman-killed-after-taking-out-terrorists-was-executed/
https://twitter.com/BiggNoni/status/1730275704049127561?s=5
Hardly work with American gun culture, one good guy with a gun!
why don't they produce a pack of card with the 52 most wanted HAMAS leaders as y as they did in IRAQ. At the moment they just appear to be taking pot shots.
Looks like they want to drive everyone out of Gaza, into Sinai?
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2023, 05:55:24 PMLooks like they want to drive everyone out of Gaza, into Sinai?
Plan from the start
October the 7th gave them the excuse.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on December 03, 2023, 07:18:10 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2023, 05:55:24 PMLooks like they want to drive everyone out of Gaza, into Sinai?
Plan from the start
October the 7th gave them the excuse.
I said this pages ago. It's all about ethnic cleansing and a massive land grab. West Bank is next.
Some tough scenes on the rte news there, in the Gaza strip!
It seems internal pressure within the Democrats is pushing Biden to have a bit of a re-think re justifiable Israeli actions.
A day or two ago Anthony Blinken issued what Jeremy Bowen of the BBC says are effectively red lines
- taking more effective steps to protect the lives of civilians, including by clearly and precisely designating areas and places in southern and central Gaza where they can be safe and out of the line of fire
- avoiding further significant displacement of civilians inside of Gaza
- avoiding damage to life-critical infrastructure, like hospitals, like power stations, like water facilities
- giving civilians who've been displaced to southern Gaza the choice to return to the north as soon as conditions permit. There must be no enduring internal displacement.
Hard to believe Benjamin will pay a blind bit of notice, but at least it's finally a start of a step in the right direction by the US
It has to change - it has to. From my limited enough knowledge of it it looks like a full on land grab now. You can't keep justifying it. Surely?
Who decided to pay out 3.8billion to Israel every year. We got fucked over up here for years and I never seen any direct cash payments to Ireland.
Netanyahu is finished.
The Yanks need Israel to stop.
Israel won't pay for anything.
It is a mess but Israel has a key weakness. Hostages.
Most Mainstream. edia are still saying Hamas killed everyone on 7 OCT.
This situation has pulled the curtain aside to reveal the wholesale corruption that has become the bedrock on which western democracy operates. And the attendant nauseating hypocrisy of their claim to be the world's good guys whilst supplying bombs that are being used to carpet bomb civilians with tens of thousands of babies, women and children murdered.
The Israeli's are gifted billions of dollars annually courtesy of the US taxpayer, they spend most of this on weapons from US weapons manufacturers, who in turn spend enormous sums of money greasing the palms of politicians, on both sides of the aisle.
Who then vote further billions annually to the Israelis, no strings attached other than they must buy American weapons, but they can use them to kill whoever they like.
The money is also used for more straightforward bribes to politicians 'campaign funds' which have little oversight, and to fund lobby groups like AIPAC, to which every major political figure in the USA is beholden. When AIPAC issue an invitation there is no-one in American political life in any position of influence that will say no.
The taxpayers' dollar is also used by Israel to compromise politicians in case the carrot approach doesn't work.
Hence you create a scenario where a massive racist and blatant anti islamic sc**bag [Steve Seldovitz] can become a National Security Advisor to Obama. You can be sure that the DoD and NSA are packed with similar headers, a quick look at Biden's WH shows that it is peopled with Zionists.
Large amounts of this taxpayer money has also been used by Israel to buy up influence in US media companies to the extent that they are all more or less controlled by Zionists, hence none of this corruption is ever mentioned let alone investigated by any mainstream media outlet. And in fact they take a blatant pro Israel stance whether the facts warrant it or not.
The rest of the western world toe the American line although there is also plenty of straightforward bribery directly involved in other countries, certainly in the British system were it is nearly as blatant as the US situation with Friends of Israel and their 'factfinding' trips... aka holidays. The ease with which they were able to ditch Jeremy Corbyn on an antisemitism charge shows the influence these people have to get rid of a political leader in another country just because he advocated for a Palestinian state.
The only people who benefit from this is the US military-industrial complex, to the tune of c$800bn/annum [not all for Israel of course] and the corrupt politicians who are siphoning millions from the people.
This has led to a series of disasters in US foreign policy over the last 70 years. I would struggle to name interventions that have worked in USAs favour since WW2, maybe the Berlin airlift and Cuban Missile Crisis.
Completely mad policies like subverting democracies because you don't like the person elected and invading other countries on manufactured grounds have become the norm whilst still holding up the beacon of freedom as the leader of the free world and ignoring the stench of the millions of people who have perished by american guns and bombs.
The curtain has been pulled aside, will this be the beginning of the end for western democracy as the world's policeman?
Surely their replacement could do no worse?
Excellent post and sadly true.
Quote from: Hound on December 03, 2023, 09:20:09 PMIt seems internal pressure within the Democrats is pushing Biden to have a bit of a re-think re justifiable Israeli actions.
A day or two ago Anthony Blinken issued what Jeremy Bowen of the BBC says are effectively red lines
- taking more effective steps to protect the lives of civilians, including by clearly and precisely designating areas and places in southern and central Gaza where they can be safe and out of the line of fire
- avoiding further significant displacement of civilians inside of Gaza
- avoiding damage to life-critical infrastructure, like hospitals, like power stations, like water facilities
- giving civilians who've been displaced to southern Gaza the choice to return to the north as soon as conditions permit. There must be no enduring internal displacement.
Hard to believe Benjamin will pay a blind bit of notice, but at least it's finally a start of a step in the right direction by the US
Well that's is you believe Blinken means what he says or is just spouting some words to appease the people out protesting. I would say it is the later and zero will change. The yanks have lost all credibility with anyone with eyes in their heads.
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2023, 01:50:05 PMQuote from: Hound on December 03, 2023, 09:20:09 PMIt seems internal pressure within the Democrats is pushing Biden to have a bit of a re-think re justifiable Israeli actions.
A day or two ago Anthony Blinken issued what Jeremy Bowen of the BBC says are effectively red lines
- taking more effective steps to protect the lives of civilians, including by clearly and precisely designating areas and places in southern and central Gaza where they can be safe and out of the line of fire
- avoiding further significant displacement of civilians inside of Gaza
- avoiding damage to life-critical infrastructure, like hospitals, like power stations, like water facilities
- giving civilians who've been displaced to southern Gaza the choice to return to the north as soon as conditions permit. There must be no enduring internal displacement.
Hard to believe Benjamin will pay a blind bit of notice, but at least it's finally a start of a step in the right direction by the US
Well that's is you believe Blinken means what he says or is just spouting some words to appease the people out protesting. I would say it is the later and zero will change. The yanks have lost all credibility with anyone with eyes in their heads.
Keyser is bang on the money with his analysis, Western democracy is corrupted by dark money from the elite and the US military-industrial complex stoking the flames throughout the world, US "aid" paid for by the US tax payer ultimately ends up with dead brown skinned people and lots of money in the hands of the elite power brokers.
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 05, 2023, 11:25:30 AMThis situation has pulled the curtain aside to reveal the wholesale corruption that has become the bedrock on which western democracy operates. And the attendant nauseating hypocrisy of their claim to be the world's good guys whilst supplying bombs that are being used to carpet bomb civilians with tens of thousands of babies, women and children murdered.
The Israeli's are gifted billions of dollars annually courtesy of the US taxpayer, they spend most of this on weapons from US weapons manufacturers, who in turn spend enormous sums of money greasing the palms of politicians, on both sides of the aisle.
Who then vote further billions annually to the Israelis, no strings attached other than they must buy American weapons, but they can use them to kill whoever they like.
The money is also used for more straightforward bribes to politicians 'campaign funds' which have little oversight, and to fund lobby groups like AIPAC, to which every major political figure in the USA is beholden. When AIPAC issue an invitation there is no-one in American political life in any position of influence that will say no.
The taxpayers' dollar is also used by Israel to compromise politicians in case the carrot approach doesn't work.
Hence you create a scenario where a massive racist and blatant anti islamic sc**bag [Steve Seldovitz] can become a National Security Advisor to Obama. You can be sure that the DoD and NSA are packed with similar headers, a quick look at Biden's WH shows that it is peopled with Zionists.
Large amounts of this taxpayer money has also been used by Israel to buy up influence in US media companies to the extent that they are all more or less controlled by Zionists, hence none of this corruption is ever mentioned let alone investigated by any mainstream media outlet. And in fact they take a blatant pro Israel stance whether the facts warrant it or not.
The rest of the western world toe the American line although there is also plenty of straightforward bribery directly involved in other countries, certainly in the British system were it is nearly as blatant as the US situation with Friends of Israel and their 'factfinding' trips... aka holidays. The ease with which they were able to ditch Jeremy Corbyn on an antisemitism charge shows the influence these people have to get rid of a political leader in another country just because he advocated for a Palestinian state.
The only people who benefit from this is the US military-industrial complex, to the tune of c$800bn/annum [not all for Israel of course] and the corrupt politicians who are siphoning millions from the people.
This has led to a series of disasters in US foreign policy over the last 70 years. I would struggle to name interventions that have worked in USAs favour since WW2, maybe the Berlin airlift and Cuban Missile Crisis.
Completely mad policies like subverting democracies because you don't like the person elected and invading other countries on manufactured grounds have become the norm whilst still holding up the beacon of freedom as the leader of the free world and ignoring the stench of the millions of people who have perished by american guns and bombs.
The curtain has been pulled aside, will this be the beginning of the end for western democracy as the world's policeman?
Surely their replacement could do no worse?
Very good post.
The main problem as I see it is that we can't do anything to change this.
Are there viable alternatives to elect in the US? Can they even get elected with the system that is in place?
In terms of the UK, they are just US-Lite. The arrogance of this political class of self-worshippers knows no limits and with the exception of a few individuals in the Tory/Labour parties, there's not enough who want to change the system.
Zionism will collapse when the economic system does. Certain Jews manipulate US public opinion to keep apartheid going. Israel is evil. Apartheid is wrong. Everyone is afraid of the lobby. Tammany Hall was the same in the 20s. It also collapsed.
Quote from: seafoid on December 05, 2023, 04:56:10 PMZionism will collapse when the economic system does. Certain Jews manipulate US public opinion to keep apartheid going. Israel is evil. Apartheid is wrong. Everyone is afraid of the lobby. Tammany Hall was the same in the 20s. It also collapsed.
I hope you're right on Zionism.
But I do think that saying Israel is evil needs to be qualified. There are plenty of ordinary Israelis who don't agree with what's happening in Gaza. Now saying the Israeli leadership/state is evil, I'd have no issue with.
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 05, 2023, 05:12:46 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 05, 2023, 04:56:10 PMZionism will collapse when the economic system does. Certain Jews manipulate US public opinion to keep apartheid going. Israel is evil. Apartheid is wrong. Everyone is afraid of the lobby. Tammany Hall was the same in the 20s. It also collapsed.
I hope you're right on Zionism.
But I do think that saying Israel is evil needs to be qualified. There are plenty of ordinary Israelis who don't agree with what's happening in Gaza. Now saying the Israeli leadership/state is evil, I'd have no issue with.
Agree with tbrick - that's the exact danger currently playing out in Ireland with the "all foreigners" craic.
You have to nail the bastards who are responsible and not tar everybody with the same brush. And rotten bastards they are committing this genocide.
The Hamas attack on Oct 7th was a surprise to Israel security forces but amazingly it seems that investors in Israel knew all about it. Does anyone think this is credible???
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/04/israeli-authorities-investigate-claims-of-short-selling-before-hamas-attacks
Quote from: Itchy on December 05, 2023, 06:37:17 PMThe Hamas attack on Oct 7th was a surprise to Israel security forces but amazingly it seems that investors in Israel knew all about it. Does anyone think this is credible???
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/04/israeli-authorities-investigate-claims-of-short-selling-before-hamas-attacks
Very interesting cheers, albeit your comment is misleading.
The article doesn't say it was investors in Israel who did the short selling, but that it was stocks on the Tel Aviv stock exchange, and that could be done from anywhere in the world. The Hamas leaders in Qatar or Iranians would seem likely possibilities.
A couple of interesting articles on the BBC today;
Life in the West Bank as illegal Israeli settlors try to make it intolerable for Palestinians. Ordinary people trying to live an ordinary life and subjected to near daily torment
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67617920
Some details of the October 7 barbarism, which seemed to target women in particular
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
Quote from: Hound on December 06, 2023, 07:50:54 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 05, 2023, 06:37:17 PMThe Hamas attack on Oct 7th was a surprise to Israel security forces but amazingly it seems that investors in Israel knew all about it. Does anyone think this is credible???
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/04/israeli-authorities-investigate-claims-of-short-selling-before-hamas-attacks
Very interesting cheers, albeit your comment is misleading.
The article doesn't say it was investors in Israel who did the short selling, but that it was stocks on the Tel Aviv stock exchange, and that could be done from anywhere in the world. The Hamas leaders in Qatar or Iranians would seem likely possibilities.
A couple of interesting articles on the BBC today;
Life in the West Bank as illegal Israeli settlors try to make it intolerable for Palestinians. Ordinary people trying to live an ordinary life and subjected to near daily torment
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67617920
Some details of the October 7 barbarism, which seemed to target women in particular
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
Does anybody believe for a second that story about the rapes?
The Israelis have been caught lying and fabricating so many stories about Oct 7th eg babies cooked in ovens and hung on clothes lines, that they have subsequently been unable to produce any evidence for, that it is shameful for the BBC to have this nonsense as their lead article on their news.
If there was an iota of truth in this you can be sure it would not have taken 2 months for the 'evidence' to be presented.
Zionism is an evil ideology. That does not mean all Israeli Jews agree with it. But the system of apartheid and brutalisation and mass indoctrination of Israeli kids and 2 legal systems and settlers is sociopathic. Israeli leaders belong in the Hague .
Some of the tropes of antisemitism are clearly visible in the US Beltway now. There has always been a divide between elite Jews and ordinary Schmucks. The ordinary ones end up paying for the sins of the former.
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 06, 2023, 11:49:29 AMQuote from: Hound on December 06, 2023, 07:50:54 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 05, 2023, 06:37:17 PMThe Hamas attack on Oct 7th was a surprise to Israel security forces but amazingly it seems that investors in Israel knew all about it. Does anyone think this is credible???
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/04/israeli-authorities-investigate-claims-of-short-selling-before-hamas-attacks
Very interesting cheers, albeit your comment is misleading.
The article doesn't say it was investors in Israel who did the short selling, but that it was stocks on the Tel Aviv stock exchange, and that could be done from anywhere in the world. The Hamas leaders in Qatar or Iranians would seem likely possibilities.
A couple of interesting articles on the BBC today;
Life in the West Bank as illegal Israeli settlors try to make it intolerable for Palestinians. Ordinary people trying to live an ordinary life and subjected to near daily torment
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67617920
Some details of the October 7 barbarism, which seemed to target women in particular
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
Does anybody believe for a second that story about the rapes?
The Israelis have been caught lying and fabricating so many stories about Oct 7th eg babies cooked in ovens and hung on clothes lines, that they have subsequently been unable to produce any evidence for, that it is shameful for the BBC to have this nonsense as their lead article on their news.
If there was an iota of truth in this you can be sure it would not have taken 2 months for the 'evidence' to be presented.
Bingo :o
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 06, 2023, 11:49:29 AMQuote from: Hound on December 06, 2023, 07:50:54 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 05, 2023, 06:37:17 PMThe Hamas attack on Oct 7th was a surprise to Israel security forces but amazingly it seems that investors in Israel knew all about it. Does anyone think this is credible???
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/04/israeli-authorities-investigate-claims-of-short-selling-before-hamas-attacks
Very interesting cheers, albeit your comment is misleading.
The article doesn't say it was investors in Israel who did the short selling, but that it was stocks on the Tel Aviv stock exchange, and that could be done from anywhere in the world. The Hamas leaders in Qatar or Iranians would seem likely possibilities.
A couple of interesting articles on the BBC today;
Life in the West Bank as illegal Israeli settlors try to make it intolerable for Palestinians. Ordinary people trying to live an ordinary life and subjected to near daily torment
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67617920
Some details of the October 7 barbarism, which seemed to target women in particular
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
Does anybody believe for a second that story about the rapes?
The Israelis have been caught lying and fabricating so many stories about Oct 7th eg babies cooked in ovens and hung on clothes lines, that they have subsequently been unable to produce any evidence for, that it is shameful for the BBC to have this nonsense as their lead article on their news.
If there was an iota of truth in this you can be sure it would not have taken 2 months for the 'evidence' to be presented.
on past experiences, no, I dont.
Hope youse are never on jury duty for a rape case, no footage it didn't happen? (even though I have read there is Hamas bodycam footage)
But unless it's shared with the GAA Board it didn't happen :-\
Owen Jones would be proud of you
Some normally really sensible posters have lost their mind on this thread
Maybe the murder of over 5,000 children might just be influencing our views.....
Wouldnt believe a word the Americans, Brits or Israelis say tbh.
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 06, 2023, 12:39:54 PMHope youse are never on jury duty for a rape case, no footage it didn't happen? (even though I have read there is Hamas bodycam footage)
But unless it's shared with the GAA Board it didn't happen :-\
Owen Jones would be proud of you
Some normally really sensible posters have lost their mind on this thread
The Israelis are perennial liars. Like it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they're lying here as well.
Does it really matter either way. No matter what Hamas did it in no way justifies what the Israelis have done since.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 12:56:24 PMDoes it really matter either way. No matter what Hamas did it in no way justifies what the Israelis have done since.
Two wrongs and all that....
And thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
This thread is infuriating to read, no doubt there are lots of other posters holding their tounges daily as well. Israel are genocidal c***ts - undisputable, but the atrocities that Hamas inflicted continually get bye balls and justification. Posters are very selective on what echo chamber news they believe & regurgitate.
2 months on do people still think Hamas's actions were justified? Like how f**king pointless and nihilistic were their actions? Israel's response is and was entirely predictable.
Seafoid's daily analysis that the Israeli alliance and support is crumbling is more nonsense. They'll stop when they're done.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
You think one of the best military defence systems had no idea about a lock of farmers with parachutes and homemade rockets? Really?
Quote from: bennydorano on December 06, 2023, 01:22:58 PMThis thread is infuriating to read, no doubt there are lots of other posters holding their tounges daily as well. Israel are genocidal c***ts - undisputable, but the atrocities that Hamas inflicted continually get bye balls and justification. Posters are very selective on what echo chamber news they believe & regurgitate.
2 months on do people still think Hamas's actions were justified? Like how f**king pointless and nihilistic were their actions? Israel's response is and was entirely predictable.
Seafoid's daily analysis that the Israeli alliance and support is crumbling is more nonsense. They'll stop when they're done.
100%
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:40:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
You think one of the best military defence systems had no idea about a lock of farmers with parachutes and homemade rockets? Really?
i dont go for conspiracy theories but the fact that Israel allegedly dodnt know about it does seem odd and out of character for the so called best intelligence system int he world
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 12:56:24 PMDoes it really matter either way. No matter what Hamas did it in no way justifies what the Israelis have done since.
It didn't start on 7 OCT. It has been going on since 1948.
Israel has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians.
They run the system.
I was reading a French magazine. They blamed Hamas for 1200 deaths. So do RTÊ. The lefty Israeli newspaper Ha'retz says this ignores what actually happened.
We don't know how many Israelis were killed by Israelis.
Young US Jews are turning away from Israel. Netanyahu's ideology is dying. There is no technical solution to the Palestinian question.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:40:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
You think one of the best military defence systems had no idea about a lock of farmers with parachutes and homemade rockets? Really?
I'm not sure on the logic of killing x amount of your own to get justification on doing what they have been doing anyways for about 75 years for it to be revealed at some point..
But sure you seem the type to enjoy a conspiracy
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 02:09:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:40:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
You think one of the best military defence systems had no idea about a lock of farmers with parachutes and homemade rockets? Really?
I'm not sure on the logic of killing x amount of your own to get justification on doing what they have been doing anyways for about 75 years for it to be revealed at some point..
But sure you seem the type to enjoy a conspiracy
Do you really think the US/Israeli leaders give a f**k how many ordinary Israelis died? Don't think its that far of a stretch to say they knew about it.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
It isn't if you look at some of Netanyahu's utterances over the years.
A Brief History of the Netanyahu-Hamas Alliance (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000)
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 02:11:25 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 02:09:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:40:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
You think one of the best military defence systems had no idea about a lock of farmers with parachutes and homemade rockets? Really?
I'm not sure on the logic of killing x amount of your own to get justification on doing what they have been doing anyways for about 75 years for it to be revealed at some point..
But sure you seem the type to enjoy a conspiracy
Do you really think the US/Israeli leaders give a f**k how many ordinary Israelis died? Don't think its that far of a stretch to say they knew about it.
I really hope you aren't doing the IRA/SF thing there? f**k me!
Anyways, yes, there would be a serious backlash on those that allowed their own to being killed if that came out. Holding that quiet would be hard to do on that scale. That's my opinion, I may be wrong and that comes out, but seems farfetched and gives Hamas no creditability in carry out any actions in the past
Quote from: johnnycool on December 06, 2023, 02:14:50 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
It isn't if you look at some of Netanyahu's utterances over the years.
A Brief History of the Netanyahu-Hamas Alliance (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000)
I'm not saying Netanyahu's hasn't used things in the past, but why not just go in and do what they have been doing anyways? Why murder 1400 or so of your own for justification of doing what they are doing or have been doing for the last number of years
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 02:09:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:40:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
You think one of the best military defence systems had no idea about a lock of farmers with parachutes and homemade rockets? Really?
I'm not sure on the logic of killing x amount of your own to get justification on doing what they have been doing anyways for about 75 years for it to be revealed at some point..
But sure you seem the type to enjoy a conspiracy
The Israelis were complacent. They were taken by surprise.
Most Israelis believe that Hamas beheaded babies.
If you are asking me what I believe or dont believe.
1- I don't believe there were mass rapes, why - because zero evidence has been provided
2- I don't believe babies were beheaded, why - because there has been zero evidence provided and the IDF had to admit they had no proof of such claims
3- I don't believe that a Hamas rocket accidentally hit a hospital, why - because IDF warned the hospital to evacuate as they were going to bomb it. The IDF then bombed other hospitals, schools and mosques (source UN). They then spent quite a bit of effort justifying targeting hospitals because apparently Hamas are in tunnels underneath. When they then went into the hospital the evidence the provided was such BS that even the BBC pulled them on it.
4- I don't believe all 1200 people killed on 7th Oct were by Hamas, why - multiple witnesses from Israel are now on the record saying they were held captive only for the IDF to shell them, shoot them and bomb them from the sky.
5- I dont believe Hamas drugged the hostages so that they were really happy when they let them go, why - cos it is f**king ridiculous
I would also like to save some of you the hassle of asking me by saying I do not condemn Hamas for attacking Israel, not for a second.
Quote from: seafoid on December 06, 2023, 02:25:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 02:09:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:40:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
You think one of the best military defence systems had no idea about a lock of farmers with parachutes and homemade rockets? Really?
I'm not sure on the logic of killing x amount of your own to get justification on doing what they have been doing anyways for about 75 years for it to be revealed at some point..
But sure you seem the type to enjoy a conspiracy
The Israelis were complacent. They were taken by surprise.
Most Israelis believe that Hamas beheaded babies.
There have been reports that there was intel a year ago about planned attacks but no dates available to when it was going to happen if ever.
Intel and knowledge of attacks is one thing, knowing and stopping is another
It could be that the attacks were known, but when it was going to be carried out is the thing.
I'm trying to find a closer to home scenario that one grouping allowed 1400 people to die, so that they get their 'homeland' back and feel that the ends justify the means
Quote from: Itchy on December 06, 2023, 02:41:21 PMIf you are asking me what I believe or dont believe.
1- I don't believe there were mass rapes, why - because zero evidence has been provided
2- I don't believe babies were beheaded, why - because there has been zero evidence provided and the IDF had to admit they had no proof of such claims
3- I don't believe that a Hamas rocket accidentally hit a hospital, why - because IDF warned the hospital to evacuate as they were going to bomb it. The IDF then bombed other hospitals, schools and mosques (source UN). They then spent quite a bit of effort justifying targeting hospitals because apparently Hamas are in tunnels underneath. When they then went into the hospital the evidence the provided was such BS that even the BBC pulled them on it.
4- I don't believe all 1200 people killed on 7th Oct were by Hamas, why - multiple witnesses from Israel are now on the record saying they were held captive only for the IDF to shell them, shoot them and bomb them from the sky.
I would also like to save some of you the hassle of asking me by saying I do not condemn Hamas for attacking Israel, not for a second.
100%, this is exactly as i would see it.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 02:42:36 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 06, 2023, 02:25:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 02:09:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:40:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
You think one of the best military defence systems had no idea about a lock of farmers with parachutes and homemade rockets? Really?
I'm not sure on the logic of killing x amount of your own to get justification on doing what they have been doing anyways for about 75 years for it to be revealed at some point..
But sure you seem the type to enjoy a conspiracy
The Israelis were complacent. They were taken by surprise.
Most Israelis believe that Hamas beheaded babies.
There have been reports that there was intel a year ago about planned attacks but no dates available to when it was going to happen if ever.
Intel and knowledge of attacks is one thing, knowing and stopping is another
It could be that the attacks were known, but when it was going to be carried out is the thing.
I'm trying to find a closer to home scenario that one grouping allowed 1400 people to die, so that they get their 'homeland' back and feel that the ends justify the means
Do you mean .... would Israel stand back/ turn the other way (call it what you will) , and allow their own citizens to be attacked/killed/taken hostage , which would then give Israel justification to obliterate the Palestinians?
Yes. 100% they would.
And there's more than Israel that would Resort to that.
Quote from: Itchy on December 06, 2023, 02:41:21 PMIf you are asking me what I believe or dont believe.
1- I don't believe there were mass rapes, why - because zero evidence has been provided
2- I don't believe babies were beheaded, why - because there has been zero evidence provided and the IDF had to admit they had no proof of such claims
3- I don't believe that a Hamas rocket accidentally hit a hospital, why - because IDF warned the hospital to evacuate as they were going to bomb it. The IDF then bombed other hospitals, schools and mosques (source UN). They then spent quite a bit of effort justifying targeting hospitals because apparently Hamas are in tunnels underneath. When they then went into the hospital the evidence the provided was such BS that even the BBC pulled them on it.
4- I don't believe all 1200 people killed on 7th Oct were by Hamas, why - multiple witnesses from Israel are now on the record saying they were held captive only for the IDF to shell them, shoot them and bomb them from the sky.
5- I dont believe Hamas drugged the hostages so that they were really happy when they let them go, why - cos it is f**king ridiculous
I would also like to save some of you the hassle of asking me by saying I do not condemn Hamas for attacking Israel, not for a second.
if you have been paying attention - not you personally, the overall you - you will notice the narrative has changed. Where it used ot be reported that Hamas killed 1200 people on 7th October they are now saying 1200 were killed during the Hamas attacks on 7th Oct. A slight difference but it tells a story
As I said earlier about evidence I hope a family member never reports a rape to you without video footage (and I believe it's out there if you are that way inclined & know where to look)
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 06, 2023, 03:23:59 PMAs I said earlier about evidence I hope a family member never reports a rape to you without video footage (and I believe it's out there if you are that way inclined & know where to look)
Clear and transparent, eh?
Quote from: Itchy on December 06, 2023, 02:41:21 PMIf you are asking me what I believe or dont believe.
1- I don't believe there were mass rapes, why - because zero evidence has been provided
2- I don't believe babies were beheaded, why - because there has been zero evidence provided and the IDF had to admit they had no proof of such claims
3- I don't believe that a Hamas rocket accidentally hit a hospital, why - because IDF warned the hospital to evacuate as they were going to bomb it. The IDF then bombed other hospitals, schools and mosques (source UN). They then spent quite a bit of effort justifying targeting hospitals because apparently Hamas are in tunnels underneath. When they then went into the hospital the evidence the provided was such BS that even the BBC pulled them on it.
4- I don't believe all 1200 people killed on 7th Oct were by Hamas, why - multiple witnesses from Israel are now on the record saying they were held captive only for the IDF to shell them, shoot them and bomb them from the sky.
5- I dont believe Hamas drugged the hostages so that they were really happy when they let them go, why - cos it is f**king ridiculous
I would also like to save some of you the hassle of asking me by saying I do not condemn Hamas for attacking Israel, not for a second.
Also on top of all the hospital stuff after denying it Netanyahu then went on to put out a tweet showing a video of some elaborate hamas base under the hospital as if that it was then justifiable. All over the place on it but if you're answerable to no one which they appear to be then you can say what you like.
The Israeli Army is overrated. They were overwhelmed on 7 Oct abd started killing their own people.
Netanyahu is all out in Gaza to deflect attention from his failure.
Israel cannot achieve security via apartheid.
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 06, 2023, 03:23:59 PMAs I said earlier about evidence I hope a family member never reports a rape to you without video footage (and I believe it's out there if you are that way inclined & know where to look)
Saffron - I hope no ones family member ever gets raped. However I hope you will agree I didnt at any point say I needed video evidence of rape. There are other types of evidence - witness, medical etc. None of this has been provided and we all know that if such evidence existed Israel would have it on the front page of every newspaper. The story is bullshit.
Quote from: Itchy on December 06, 2023, 05:04:32 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on December 06, 2023, 03:23:59 PMAs I said earlier about evidence I hope a family member never reports a rape to you without video footage (and I believe it's out there if you are that way inclined & know where to look)
Saffron - I hope no ones family member ever gets raped. However I hope you will agree I didnt at any point say I needed video evidence of rape. There are other types of evidence - witness, medical etc. None of this has been provided and we all know that if such evidence existed Israel would have it on the front page of every newspaper. The story is bullshit.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181)
Grim reading, that one would hope isn't fabricated by an appropriate news agency. You seem very very secure in your belief, which is impressive in such a complicated world.
One of the first widely published images of the Hamas attack was of a brutalised dead woman partially clothed on the back of a truck being paraded about like a trophy. The misogynistic, atrocity committing terrorists aren't rapists tho, they draw the line there.
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 06, 2023, 02:51:57 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 02:42:36 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 06, 2023, 02:25:07 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 02:09:28 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:40:02 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2023, 01:19:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 01:07:12 PMAnd thats before you even start to consider the fact that Israel likely either allowed or encouraged the 7th of October attack.
Thats up there with the fake moon landings
You think one of the best military defence systems had no idea about a lock of farmers with parachutes and homemade rockets? Really?
I'm not sure on the logic of killing x amount of your own to get justification on doing what they have been doing anyways for about 75 years for it to be revealed at some point..
But sure you seem the type to enjoy a conspiracy
The Israelis were complacent. They were taken by surprise.
Most Israelis believe that Hamas beheaded babies.
There have been reports that there was intel a year ago about planned attacks but no dates available to when it was going to happen if ever.
Intel and knowledge of attacks is one thing, knowing and stopping is another
It could be that the attacks were known, but when it was going to be carried out is the thing.
I'm trying to find a closer to home scenario that one grouping allowed 1400 people to die, so that they get their 'homeland' back and feel that the ends justify the means
Do you mean .... would Israel stand back/ turn the other way (call it what you will) , and allow their own citizens to be attacked/killed/taken hostage , which would then give Israel justification to obliterate the Palestinians?
Yes. 100% they would.
And there's more than Israel that would Resort to that.
They've been doing it, without any justification, so f**k it, let's murder hundreds of our own, allow Hamas to kill over hundreds more, allow over 200 hostages and put families through all that, to continue what we've already been doing?
I'd question plenty of things but, it, on the face of it, is bat shit crazy.
And should it be true, well, there would and should be an international backlash from all those that, and continue to fuel it.
Quote from: Itchy on December 06, 2023, 05:04:32 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on December 06, 2023, 03:23:59 PMAs I said earlier about evidence I hope a family member never reports a rape to you without video footage (and I believe it's out there if you are that way inclined & know where to look)
Saffron - I hope no ones family member ever gets raped. However I hope you will agree I didnt at any point say I needed video evidence of rape. There are other types of evidence - witness, medical etc. None of this has been provided and we all know that if such evidence existed Israel would have it on the front page of every newspaper. The story is bullshit.
Probably were too busy burying bodies, trying to free hostages, stabilise their country, plan an invasion to worry about producing evidence of rape to satisfy social media.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 06, 2023, 05:59:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 06, 2023, 05:04:32 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on December 06, 2023, 03:23:59 PMAs I said earlier about evidence I hope a family member never reports a rape to you without video footage (and I believe it's out there if you are that way inclined & know where to look)
Saffron - I hope no ones family member ever gets raped. However I hope you will agree I didnt at any point say I needed video evidence of rape. There are other types of evidence - witness, medical etc. None of this has been provided and we all know that if such evidence existed Israel would have it on the front page of every newspaper. The story is bullshit.
Probably were too busy burying bodies, trying to free hostages, stabilise their country, plan an invasion to worry about producing evidence of rape to satisfy social media.
Zionist?
As I said on this thread earlier, to less than universal approval, there is no doubt of the savagery of the October attacks, nobody acting in good faith can deny this, the exact number of people involved is not the main point and is more or less irrelevant. In any war there are rapes to some extent, the less formal the army the greater the likelihood. The October attackers comprised hardened Hamas warriors and also some opportunistic elements, the latter would not have been the ones attacking the military base but would have been sure to loot and rape and then return to Gaza.
There has been a hesitation to condemn the attacks e.g. "rape happens in war", which neglects that rampaging through the attendees at a rock festival is not war by any reasonable definition.
This is from a reporter on the ground with the Times behind a paywall, so I will post the article in full. It will be my last word on this as it's a waste of time with some of you.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ten-hamas-fighters-were-raping-the-woman-she-begged-for-death-6ldlmh8sp
First Hamas fighters raped her. Then they shot her in the head
The terrorists were 'on a mission' to carry out sexual attacks on October 7. Campaigners have asked why the UN stayed silent
She had, he says, the face of an angel. Night after night Yoni Saadon, 39, wakes in anguish to the faces of women.
First, that of the young woman hiding next to him under the stage of the Supernova festival where he had been dancing to electronic music as the sun rose on October 7 and Hamas militants opened fire.
"She fell to the ground, shot in the head, and I pulled her body over me and smeared her blood on me so it would look as if I was dead too," he said. "I will never forget her face. Every night I wake to it and apologise to her, saying 'I'm sorry'."
After an hour, he peeked out. "I saw this beautiful woman with the face of an angel and eight or ten of the fighters beating and raping her. She was screaming, 'Stop it — already I'm going to die anyway from what you are doing, just kill me!' When they finished they were laughing and the last one shot her in the head.
"I kept thinking it could have been one of my daughters," added the father of four. "Or my sister — I had bought her a ticket but last minute she couldn't come."
The horror did not end there. Hiding in bushes, he saw two more Hamas fighters. "They had caught a young woman near a car and she was fighting back, not allowing them to strip her. They threw her to the ground and one of the terrorists took a shovel and beheaded her and her head rolled along the ground. I see that head too," he says.
Saadon, a shift manager in a foundry, told his story to The Sunday Times in a support area set up in Sitria, southeast of Tel Aviv, for survivors of the festival.
Three times a week survivors from around Israel get together with parents whose children were among those slaughtered. On Wednesday evening they gathered on sofas as people brought them beers and steaming bowls of vegetable soup, then went outside to sit round a firepit as the singer Rona Kenan strummed her guitar and sang ballads.
Volunteer therapists on hand included Bar Yuval-Shani, 58, who lost her only sister, Deborah, and brother-in-law, Shlomi Matias, both musicians and peace activists, killed on Holit kibbutz by militants who broke into their safe room. "She was eight years younger but [it was] as if we were twins," she said tearfully. "I held all her secrets and I miss her terribly."
Deborah died shielding her son Rotem, 16, who was shot in the abdomen then hid for nine hours as fighters returned again and again, and Yuval-Shani guided him over the phone in how to treat himself.
Yoni Saadon's account is one of several witness accounts of rape Yuval-Shani has heard from festival survivors, all of whom, she says, are "deeply traumatised".
Eight weeks after the attack in which 1,200 were killed and 240 taken hostage, there is mounting evidence of widespread rape on October 7. Israeli police have begun their biggest investigation into sexual violence and crimes against women. "It's clear now that sexual crimes were part of the planning and the purpose was to terrify and humiliate people," says Shelly Harush, the police commander leading the investigation.
They have collected thousands of statements, photographs and video clips, which she says "as a Jewish mother the mind and soul cannot bear", including "girls whose pelvises were broken they had been raped so much".
The first indications came on the day itself when Hamas livestreamed some of the horrors it was perpetrating. Footage showed several women stripped of their clothing. One video showed a young woman with bloodstains on the crotch of her underwear.
"We didn't understand at first," says Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, an expert on international law at Hebrew university of Jerusalem who heads a civilian commission into Hamas crimes against women on October 7. Survivors arriving at hospitals were not asked about sexual abuse or given rape kits for evidence.
However, those tasked with collecting the bodies began reporting that many of the women were naked and bleeding from the genitals.
Haim Outmezgine, commander of a special unit of Zaka, a voluntary religious organisation that collects the remains of the dead, including their blood, so they can be buried in accordance with Jewish tradition, has no doubt about what they saw.
"We collected 1,000 bodies in ten days from the festival site and kibbutzim," he said. "No one saw more than us. "It was clear they were trying to spread as much horror as they could — to kill, to burn alive, to rape ... it seemed their mission was to rape as many as possible."
He describes finding two girls' bodies in a field, both shot in the head, legs apart, one with shorts ripped and shot in the vagina and other with jeans pulled down and bruises on her legs. A father of six, he finds it hard to talk about. "One of my girls is 24, around the same age," he says. His team are all receiving therapy.
Once the bodies were collected they were taken to the main morgue at the Shura military base to be identified and prepared for burial. Among volunteers in an all-female team to prepare female corpses was Shari, 60, an architect who lives in Jerusalem.
Working there day and night for two weeks starting the morning after, she describes scenes of unimaginable horror. "This is a huge building but there were literally body bags filling every room and lining corridors floor to ceiling, all oozing liquids.
"Opening the body bags was scary as we didn't know what we would see. They were all young women. Most in little clothing or shredded clothing and their bodies bloodied particularly round their underwear and some women shot many times in the face as if to mutilate them.
"Their faces were in anguish and often their fingers clenched as they died. We saw women whose pelvises were broken. Legs broken. There were women who had been shot in the crotch, in the breasts ... there seems no doubt what happened to them."
Her team had to wait while doctors, dentists and DNA experts worked to identify the bodies before they could then gently put them in white linen burial shrouds. "We are just normal women not doctors, we never expected to see such horrors," she said. Yet what really made them cry was the occasional flash of colour. "Some bodies we took out had pretty pink or bright purple nails — and we would all pause and at that point many of us broke down."
As more and more reports emerged, Elkayam-Levy was shocked at the lack of international reaction from bodies such as UN Women. On the eighth day she gathered a group of international law and women's rights experts, including 160 law professors, and drafted letters to UN agencies sharing everything.
The initial response, she says, was silence. "It was absurd that it was so documented yet accompanied by so much silence. One of the UN's own values is 'believe women' as crimes against women are always denied but they failed to believe us — the very organisations meant to protect us failed us."
The women established a civilian commission to collect videos, photos, and witness statements into a database, both as an archive but also to raise international awareness.
Elkayam-Levy says these make clear what Hamas was trying to achieve. "They wanted to terrorise us for generations to come and instil in us insecurity in the most basic way, and that's why they targeted women in this way.
⬤ Janice Turner: Why's the #MeToo crowd silent on Hamas rape?
"I'm a feminist," she adds, "I teach and fight for women's rights, yet after October 7 I told my husband to get a gun. For me to want a weapon and put it in my house — against everything I believe in and ever believed in — shows what they did to us."
Israel Defence Forces (IDF) sources claim that Hamas fighters captured in Gaza have told them in interrogations that they were instructed to "dirty" or "whore" the women. They also showed The Sunday Times photographs and footage not previously seen and too graphic to publish.
Some have questioned the accounts because of the IDF use of propaganda and the fact no victims have come forward. But Dr Dvora Baumann, director of the Bat Ami Centre for Victims of Sexual Abuse at Hadassah hospital, points out: "Usually people who are sexually abused don't report it for a long time because it is so hard to talk about and they worry they will be judged. We have plenty of other evidence. I've been in this field over 20 years and I have never heard such horrific things."
Most of the women are believed to have been killed or taken hostage. There are reports some survivors of the festival survivors have taken their own lives, while 18 are receiving treatment in mental institutions.
Some fear that those remaining are being held as sex slaves by Hamas commanders in the same way as Islamic State (Isis) did with Yazidis in 2014.
Paradoxically, in a world where rape is being used as a weapon of war everywhere from Ethiopia to Ukraine, this had been cited as one conflict where it did not happen.
Hamas denies that its fighters rape women. One official, Basem Naim, told The Washington Post that the group considers "any sexual relationship or activity outside of marriage to be completely haram" — forbidden by Islam.
Palestinian women say they too have suffered sexual violence in Israeli jails, a claim denied by Israeli officials.
The International Criminal Court has announced it will investigate the October 7 attacks and the situation in Gaza where about 15,000 people have been killed and fighting resumed on Friday. Karim Khan, the chief prosecutor, has spent the last two days in Israel meeting survivors and hostage families in Tel Aviv and visiting the West Bank. "We will investigate crimes within our jurisdiction ... depending on the information we have and evidence potentially available," he said. This is expected to include sexual violence.
For the past week, a delegation of Israeli feminists and human rights experts have been in Geneva and New York lobbying to be heard. Tomorrow they will protest outside the UN headquarters, and Sheryl Sandberg, the former chief operating officer of Facebook, will speak.
On Friday night UN Women finally issued a statement condemning the October 7 attacks. "We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during these attacks," it said.
Professor Ruth Halperin-Kaddari, who spent 12 years as a committee member on the UN convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women (Cedaw), said: "This is the statement they should have issued two months ago.
"It's mindblowing. We were there for our sisters when terrible things happened across the ocean, when they took away abortion rights in US, the killing of women in Iran, the abduction of Yazidis ... but with us they looked away and I can't think of a reasonable answer."
Ayelet Razin Bet Or, the former director of Israel's authority for the advancement of the status of women, does have an answer. "Israeli women have been betrayed," she said. "What they are saying is MeToo except if you're a Jew."
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2023, 06:06:37 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 06, 2023, 05:59:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 06, 2023, 05:04:32 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on December 06, 2023, 03:23:59 PMAs I said earlier about evidence I hope a family member never reports a rape to you without video footage (and I believe it's out there if you are that way inclined & know where to look)
Saffron - I hope no ones family member ever gets raped. However I hope you will agree I didnt at any point say I needed video evidence of rape. There are other types of evidence - witness, medical etc. None of this has been provided and we all know that if such evidence existed Israel would have it on the front page of every newspaper. The story is bullshit.
Probably were too busy burying bodies, trying to free hostages, stabilise their country, plan an invasion to worry about producing evidence of rape to satisfy social media.
Zionist?
Cretin who can't think for himself?
The Times also reports today that the authorities did not warn the festival organisers of any prospect of an attack. The festival had a permit in relation to security, but did not get any security.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 06, 2023, 07:18:36 PMThe Times also reports today that the authorities did not warn the festival organisers of any prospect of an attack. The festival had a permit in relation to security, but did not get any security.
because they wanted them murdered and kidnapped?
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1732484798424240185?t=FysSIUxwDX64MZCEddY5OQ&s=19
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/12/06/scandal-israeli-october-7-fabrications/
Zaka - where the stories come from. You can decide yourself who to believe
That's a hard call Itchy - I wouldn't believe a word of of Blumenthal's mouth or any of the GrayZone grifters. You won't find any enlightenment following that shower.
Actual dead babies...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/03/gaza-premature-babies-dead-nasr/
Quote from: armaghniac on December 06, 2023, 07:18:36 PMThe Times also reports today that the authorities did not warn the festival organisers of any prospect of an attack. The festival had a permit in relation to security, but did not get any security.
The article Benny quoted also has Hamas saying they didn't rape anybody. So.....
I mean there was footage of a young woman getting trailed onto a motorbike and taken away from the very start of this & the seat of her jogging bottoms were covered in blood.
But good that posters like Tonto1888 & Itchy don't believe it happened because Hamas said it didn't. The same Hamas that killed woman, children and pensioners.
Who to believe ? Multiple innocent witnesses or Hamas?
Embarrassing & pathetic
Quote from: Deerstalker on December 06, 2023, 10:06:51 PMI mean there was footage of a young woman getting trailed onto a motorbike and taken away from the very start of this & the seat of her jogging bottoms were covered in blood.
But good that posters like Tonto1888 & Itchy don't believe it happened because Hamas said it didn't. The same Hamas that killed woman, children and pensioners.
Who to believe ? Multiple innocent witnesses or Hamas?
Embarrassing & pathetic
yes, you are.
FWIW, I never said it didnt happen. The dude put up an article with people in it saying it did happen as evidence. In the same article Hamas say it didnt happen. If one is evidence then the other is too
People putting up articles from the BBC and the Times of London and then using the word evidence in the same sentence. :o
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 07, 2023, 11:40:04 AMPeople putting up articles from the BBC and the Times of London and then using the word evidence in the same sentence. :o
Ditto putting up anything by Max Blumenthal or any of the GrayZone clown show. You'd need to have had a lobotomy to believe any of their pish. I've seen it on the Ukraine thread as well, news and views straight from the Kremlin.
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 07, 2023, 11:40:04 AMPeople putting up articles from the BBC and the Times of London and then using the word evidence in the same sentence. :o
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians
Think she is talking about posters like you and Itchy & Tonto in this
The guardian has a similar article to the bbc, it is reporting on the testimony from witnesses, first responders, those that gathered up the bodies.
There are still photos & Hamas video footage. But again if you choose to believe Hamas over them that's fine but it's says a lot about you.
Quote from: Deerstalker on December 07, 2023, 11:58:47 AMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 07, 2023, 11:40:04 AMPeople putting up articles from the BBC and the Times of London and then using the word evidence in the same sentence. :o
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians
Think she is talking about posters like you and Itchy & Tonto in this
The guardian has a similar article to the bbc, it is reporting on the testimony from witnesses, first responders, those that gathered up the bodies.
There are still photos & Hamas video footage. But again if you choose to believe Hamas over them that's fine but it's says a lot about you.
There's no doubt Hamas committed atrocities that day and 1200 to 1400 people were killed that day, how many by whom is still up for debate.
What's not up for debate is Israel's genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinian civilians in Gaza with thousands of children being killed, left to die in incubators, carpet bombed etc etc.
If you think that one justifies the other, then I'm not sure what that says about you!
Quote from: Deerstalker on December 07, 2023, 11:58:47 AMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 07, 2023, 11:40:04 AMPeople putting up articles from the BBC and the Times of London and then using the word evidence in the same sentence. :o
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians
Think she is talking about posters like you and Itchy & Tonto in this
The guardian has a similar article to the bbc, it is reporting on the testimony from witnesses, first responders, those that gathered up the bodies.
There are still photos & Hamas video footage. But again if you choose to believe Hamas over them that's fine but it's says a lot about you.
again, I have not said they didnt happen. I have an issue woth that article. If she wants to say it is anti Semitic then just say it. Dont go round the houses
Quote from: Deerstalker on December 07, 2023, 11:58:47 AMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 07, 2023, 11:40:04 AMPeople putting up articles from the BBC and the Times of London and then using the word evidence in the same sentence. :o
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians
Think she is talking about posters like you and Itchy & Tonto in this
The guardian has a similar article to the bbc, it is reporting on the testimony from witnesses, first responders, those that gathered up the bodies.
There are still photos & Hamas video footage. But again if you choose to believe Hamas over them that's fine but it's says a lot about you.
If she is talking about me I'm happy enough about that, as that article is complete and utter bullshit.
If it says a lot about me I am proud of that as I don't take cognisance of anything the newspapers and television correspondents report on this situation as they have completely skewed their reporting of what is happening.
None of these 'journalists' are in Gaza, none of them give a fig about what is happening to the palestinians, they are promulgating whatever the IDF are telling them and parrotting raw propaganda, as this lady in the guardian is doing.
In this instance you are either incredibly stupid or a raving bigot or both if you can't see that this story is a plant from the IDF, one of many in a long series and all of which has proved to be more or less complete bullshit, but are swallowed whole by the ISORBs when pushed by corrupt western governments and their lackeys in the media.
Hamas committed terrible atrocities on Oct 7th in particular, murder, rape, dismemberment, torture, kidnap etc. I have no doubt they lied about any aspects of it that they think might reflect badly on them.
As they are a designated terrorist group and persona non grata to all civilised people you would not expect them to behave in any way other than as scumbags and for the media to report that accurately. And for any reasonable person to condemn all their actions.
On the other hand most reasonable people would also expect that the only democratic country in the ME, some would say the most westernised and civilised, with a massive military budget and a huge army would not behave like scumbags.
You know like murdering thousands of babies and children, attacking doctors, attacking hospitals, attacking schools, murdering journalists and their families, cutting off food and water to civilians, carpet bombing a city etc etc.
If that happened you would expect it to be bigger news than a sc**bag being a sc**bag. But it's not is it? You would expect any unbiased media source, any world leader, any politician to condemn this with equal or more fervour than a one off terrorist attack. Do they? Do they f**k!
A thousand people were murdered in Gaza, the next day the headlines is about gangrape that allegedly happened 2 months ago. You would not have known about the former through mainstream media outlets [for me that's RTE and BBC as I don't read any national papers daily].
So don't you dare lecture me about what to believe you arsehole.
German state will require support for Israel to gain citizenship
Those applying for citizenship in the German state of Saxony Anhalt must now declare their support for Israel's right to exist.
According to the decree, Israel's right to exist is Germany's "Staatsräson" or "reason of state", German media has reported.
"Acquiring German citizenship requires a commitment to Israel's right to exist," the decree said.
Applicants must also confirm in writing "that they recognize Israel's right to exist and condemn any efforts directed against the existence of the State of Israel", it added.
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 06, 2023, 06:09:33 PMThis is from a reporter on the ground with the Times behind a paywall, so I will post the article in full. It will be my last word on this as it's a waste of time with some of you.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ten-hamas-fighters-were-raping-the-woman-she-begged-for-death-6ldlmh8sp
First Hamas fighters raped her. Then they shot her in the head
The terrorists were 'on a mission' to carry out sexual attacks on October 7. Campaigners have asked why the UN stayed silent
She had, he says, the face of an angel. Night after night Yoni Saadon, 39, wakes in anguish to the faces of women.
First, that of the young woman hiding next to him under the stage of the Supernova festival where he had been dancing to electronic music as the sun rose on October 7 and Hamas militants opened fire.
"She fell to the ground, shot in the head, and I pulled her body over me and smeared her blood on me so it would look as if I was dead too," he said. "I will never forget her face. Every night I wake to it and apologise to her, saying 'I'm sorry'."
After an hour, he peeked out. "I saw this beautiful woman with the face of an angel and eight or ten of the fighters beating and raping her. She was screaming, 'Stop it — already I'm going to die anyway from what you are doing, just kill me!' When they finished they were laughing and the last one shot her in the head.
"I kept thinking it could have been one of my daughters," added the father of four. "Or my sister — I had bought her a ticket but last minute she couldn't come."
The horror did not end there. Hiding in bushes, he saw two more Hamas fighters. "They had caught a young woman near a car and she was fighting back, not allowing them to strip her. They threw her to the ground and one of the terrorists took a shovel and beheaded her and her head rolled along the ground. I see that head too," he says.
Saadon, a shift manager in a foundry, told his story to The Sunday Times in a support area set up in Sitria, southeast of Tel Aviv, for survivors of the festival.
Three times a week survivors from around Israel get together with parents whose children were among those slaughtered. On Wednesday evening they gathered on sofas as people brought them beers and steaming bowls of vegetable soup, then went outside to sit round a firepit as the singer Rona Kenan strummed her guitar and sang ballads.
Volunteer therapists on hand included Bar Yuval-Shani, 58, who lost her only sister, Deborah, and brother-in-law, Shlomi Matias, both musicians and peace activists, killed on Holit kibbutz by militants who broke into their safe room. "She was eight years younger but [it was] as if we were twins," she said tearfully. "I held all her secrets and I miss her terribly."
Deborah died shielding her son Rotem, 16, who was shot in the abdomen then hid for nine hours as fighters returned again and again, and Yuval-Shani guided him over the phone in how to treat himself.
Yoni Saadon's account is one of several witness accounts of rape Yuval-Shani has heard from festival survivors, all of whom, she says, are "deeply traumatised".
Eight weeks after the attack in which 1,200 were killed and 240 taken hostage, there is mounting evidence of widespread rape on October 7. Israeli police have begun their biggest investigation into sexual violence and crimes against women. "It's clear now that sexual crimes were part of the planning and the purpose was to terrify and humiliate people," says Shelly Harush, the police commander leading the investigation.
They have collected thousands of statements, photographs and video clips, which she says "as a Jewish mother the mind and soul cannot bear", including "girls whose pelvises were broken they had been raped so much".
The first indications came on the day itself when Hamas livestreamed some of the horrors it was perpetrating. Footage showed several women stripped of their clothing. One video showed a young woman with bloodstains on the crotch of her underwear.
"We didn't understand at first," says Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, an expert on international law at Hebrew university of Jerusalem who heads a civilian commission into Hamas crimes against women on October 7. Survivors arriving at hospitals were not asked about sexual abuse or given rape kits for evidence.
However, those tasked with collecting the bodies began reporting that many of the women were naked and bleeding from the genitals.
Haim Outmezgine, commander of a special unit of Zaka, a voluntary religious organisation that collects the remains of the dead, including their blood, so they can be buried in accordance with Jewish tradition, has no doubt about what they saw.
"We collected 1,000 bodies in ten days from the festival site and kibbutzim," he said. "No one saw more than us. "It was clear they were trying to spread as much horror as they could — to kill, to burn alive, to rape ... it seemed their mission was to rape as many as possible."
He describes finding two girls' bodies in a field, both shot in the head, legs apart, one with shorts ripped and shot in the vagina and other with jeans pulled down and bruises on her legs. A father of six, he finds it hard to talk about. "One of my girls is 24, around the same age," he says. His team are all receiving therapy.
Once the bodies were collected they were taken to the main morgue at the Shura military base to be identified and prepared for burial. Among volunteers in an all-female team to prepare female corpses was Shari, 60, an architect who lives in Jerusalem.
Working there day and night for two weeks starting the morning after, she describes scenes of unimaginable horror. "This is a huge building but there were literally body bags filling every room and lining corridors floor to ceiling, all oozing liquids.
"Opening the body bags was scary as we didn't know what we would see. They were all young women. Most in little clothing or shredded clothing and their bodies bloodied particularly round their underwear and some women shot many times in the face as if to mutilate them.
"Their faces were in anguish and often their fingers clenched as they died. We saw women whose pelvises were broken. Legs broken. There were women who had been shot in the crotch, in the breasts ... there seems no doubt what happened to them."
Her team had to wait while doctors, dentists and DNA experts worked to identify the bodies before they could then gently put them in white linen burial shrouds. "We are just normal women not doctors, we never expected to see such horrors," she said. Yet what really made them cry was the occasional flash of colour. "Some bodies we took out had pretty pink or bright purple nails — and we would all pause and at that point many of us broke down."
As more and more reports emerged, Elkayam-Levy was shocked at the lack of international reaction from bodies such as UN Women. On the eighth day she gathered a group of international law and women's rights experts, including 160 law professors, and drafted letters to UN agencies sharing everything.
The initial response, she says, was silence. "It was absurd that it was so documented yet accompanied by so much silence. One of the UN's own values is 'believe women' as crimes against women are always denied but they failed to believe us — the very organisations meant to protect us failed us."
The women established a civilian commission to collect videos, photos, and witness statements into a database, both as an archive but also to raise international awareness.
Elkayam-Levy says these make clear what Hamas was trying to achieve. "They wanted to terrorise us for generations to come and instil in us insecurity in the most basic way, and that's why they targeted women in this way.
⬤ Janice Turner: Why's the #MeToo crowd silent on Hamas rape?
"I'm a feminist," she adds, "I teach and fight for women's rights, yet after October 7 I told my husband to get a gun. For me to want a weapon and put it in my house — against everything I believe in and ever believed in — shows what they did to us."
Israel Defence Forces (IDF) sources claim that Hamas fighters captured in Gaza have told them in interrogations that they were instructed to "dirty" or "whore" the women. They also showed The Sunday Times photographs and footage not previously seen and too graphic to publish.
Some have questioned the accounts because of the IDF use of propaganda and the fact no victims have come forward. But Dr Dvora Baumann, director of the Bat Ami Centre for Victims of Sexual Abuse at Hadassah hospital, points out: "Usually people who are sexually abused don't report it for a long time because it is so hard to talk about and they worry they will be judged. We have plenty of other evidence. I've been in this field over 20 years and I have never heard such horrific things."
Most of the women are believed to have been killed or taken hostage. There are reports some survivors of the festival survivors have taken their own lives, while 18 are receiving treatment in mental institutions.
Some fear that those remaining are being held as sex slaves by Hamas commanders in the same way as Islamic State (Isis) did with Yazidis in 2014.
Paradoxically, in a world where rape is being used as a weapon of war everywhere from Ethiopia to Ukraine, this had been cited as one conflict where it did not happen.
Hamas denies that its fighters rape women. One official, Basem Naim, told The Washington Post that the group considers "any sexual relationship or activity outside of marriage to be completely haram" — forbidden by Islam.
Palestinian women say they too have suffered sexual violence in Israeli jails, a claim denied by Israeli officials.
The International Criminal Court has announced it will investigate the October 7 attacks and the situation in Gaza where about 15,000 people have been killed and fighting resumed on Friday. Karim Khan, the chief prosecutor, has spent the last two days in Israel meeting survivors and hostage families in Tel Aviv and visiting the West Bank. "We will investigate crimes within our jurisdiction ... depending on the information we have and evidence potentially available," he said. This is expected to include sexual violence.
For the past week, a delegation of Israeli feminists and human rights experts have been in Geneva and New York lobbying to be heard. Tomorrow they will protest outside the UN headquarters, and Sheryl Sandberg, the former chief operating officer of Facebook, will speak.
On Friday night UN Women finally issued a statement condemning the October 7 attacks. "We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during these attacks," it said.
Professor Ruth Halperin-Kaddari, who spent 12 years as a committee member on the UN convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women (Cedaw), said: "This is the statement they should have issued two months ago.
"It's mindblowing. We were there for our sisters when terrible things happened across the ocean, when they took away abortion rights in US, the killing of women in Iran, the abduction of Yazidis ... but with us they looked away and I can't think of a reasonable answer."
Ayelet Razin Bet Or, the former director of Israel's authority for the advancement of the status of women, does have an answer. "Israeli women have been betrayed," she said. "What they are saying is MeToo except if you're a Jew."
I saw similar articles in le Figaro . All from the Israeli perspective. One was about the kibuzz where over a hundred people"were murdered by Hamas". War is lies. And the Times is Murdoch.
Quote from: Eire90 on December 07, 2023, 03:21:59 PMGerman state will require support for Israel to gain citizenship
Those applying for citizenship in the German state of Saxony Anhalt must now declare their support for Israel's right to exist.
According to the decree, Israel's right to exist is Germany's "Staatsräson" or "reason of state", German media has reported.
"Acquiring German citizenship requires a commitment to Israel's right to exist," the decree said.
Applicants must also confirm in writing "that they recognize Israel's right to exist and condemn any efforts directed against the existence of the State of Israel", it added.
where are you seeing this?
Quote from: tonto1888 on December 07, 2023, 04:07:44 PMQuote from: Eire90 on December 07, 2023, 03:21:59 PMGerman state will require support for Israel to gain citizenship
Those applying for citizenship in the German state of Saxony Anhalt must now declare their support for Israel's right to exist.
According to the decree, Israel's right to exist is Germany's "Staatsräson" or "reason of state", German media has reported.
"Acquiring German citizenship requires a commitment to Israel's right to exist," the decree said.
Applicants must also confirm in writing "that they recognize Israel's right to exist and condemn any efforts directed against the existence of the State of Israel", it added.
where are you seeing this?
It's widely reported in German and intl media.
Personally I'd have no problem with Germany's prerogative to impose that antisemitic stipulation. Isn't antisemitism part and parcel of Germany's basic law? Acquired citizenship procedures vary by the country. I have gone through one such procedure, it's invasive as well as mind mindbogglingly pedantic and bureaucratic. How many Irish have pledged allegiance to the US constitution?
I support Israel's right to exist but do not support their disgusting persecution of Palestinians.
In a similar way, in supporting the civil rights of Palestinians does not mean I support Hamas who I regard as the turds of insurgence.
Germanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:28:06 PMGermanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
holocaust guilt?? wtf are you on about?
Maybe you should acquaint yourself more with the spreading Holocaust denial in Germany and their far right Kremlin supported movements.
Quote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:31:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:28:06 PMGermanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
holocaust guilt?? wtf are you on about?
Maybe you should acquaint yourself more with the spreading Holocaust denial in Germany and their far right Kremlin supported movements.
Now they're supporting a new holocaust in Palestine....
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:34:32 PMQuote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:31:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:28:06 PMGermanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
holocaust guilt?? wtf are you on about?
Maybe you should acquaint yourself more with the spreading Holocaust denial in Germany and their far right Kremlin supported movements.
Now they're supporting a new holocaust in Palestine....
Supporting Israel's right to exist as is required for German citizenship does not equal a support for Israel's horrible war against the general Palestinian population. Just as support for the Palestinian civil rights does not mean support for the scúm of resistance, Hamas.
Hamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
Quote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:31:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:28:06 PMGermanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
holocaust guilt?? wtf are you on about?
Maybe you should acquaint yourself more with the spreading Holocaust denial in Germany and their far right Kremlin supported movements.
Most antisemitism in Germany now comes from Muslims.
Quote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:31:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:28:06 PMGermanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
holocaust guilt?? wtf are you on about?
Maybe you should acquaint yourself more with the spreading Holocaust denial in Germany and their far right Kremlin supported movements.
Germany is totally infected with holocaust guilt. They are unable to criticise Israel. The irony is they are now enabling a new holocaust. Germany always seem to be on the wrong side of history.
Quote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:27:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:31:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:28:06 PMGermanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
holocaust guilt?? wtf are you on about?
Maybe you should acquaint yourself more with the spreading Holocaust denial in Germany and their far right Kremlin supported movements.
Germany is totally infected with holocaust guilt. They are unable to criticise Israel. The irony is they are now enabling a new holocaust. Germany always seem to be on the wrong side of history.
The uk and the Americans don't seem to be covering themselves in glory..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 07, 2023, 11:30:56 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:27:39 PMQuote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:31:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:28:06 PMGermanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
holocaust guilt?? wtf are you on about?
Maybe you should acquaint yourself more with the spreading Holocaust denial in Germany and their far right Kremlin supported movements.
Germany is totally infected with holocaust guilt. They are unable to criticise Israel. The irony is they are now enabling a new holocaust. Germany always seem to be on the wrong side of history.
The uk and the Americans don't seem to be covering themselves in glory..
No they dont. UK are irrelevant. The yanks are a disgrace and have lost all credibility. The yanks are not the good guys they were in WW2, they are the oppressors of the world and a pretend democracy.
Quote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:42:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:34:32 PMQuote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:31:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:28:06 PMGermanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
holocaust guilt?? wtf are you on about?
Maybe you should acquaint yourself more with the spreading Holocaust denial in Germany and their far right Kremlin supported movements.
Now they're supporting a new holocaust in Palestine....
Supporting Israel's right to exist as is required for German citizenship does not equal a support for Israel's horrible war against the general Palestinian population. Just as support for the Palestinian civil rights does not mean support for the scúm of resistance, Hamas.
If true, it's frankly bizarre. To be a citizen of this country you have to pledge to the right of a totally different country to exist. Does any other country have something comparable?
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 08, 2023, 01:27:10 AMQuote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:42:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:34:32 PMQuote from: Main Street on December 07, 2023, 10:31:42 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 07, 2023, 10:28:06 PMGermanys Holocaust guilt going abit too far if thats true ffs
holocaust guilt?? wtf are you on about?
Maybe you should acquaint yourself more with the spreading Holocaust denial in Germany and their far right Kremlin supported movements.
Now they're supporting a new holocaust in Palestine....
Supporting Israel's right to exist as is required for German citizenship does not equal a support for Israel's horrible war against the general Palestinian population. Just as support for the Palestinian civil rights does not mean support for the scúm of resistance, Hamas.
If true, it's frankly bizarre. To be a citizen of this country you have to pledge to the right of a totally different country to exist. Does any other country have something comparable?
I agree with this. I think its daft to make that a prerequisite of becoming a German citizen though I also agree with MS when says supporting their right to exist does not mean you agree with that theyre doing to Palestine
It clearer to me now this past few years, there's another layer to how western global politics functions. The voting public and their opinions are of no interest to the elites. It's totally gamed.
Quote from: theskull1 on December 08, 2023, 10:40:32 AMIt clearer to me now this past few years, there's another layer to how western global politics functions. The voting public and their opinions are of no interest to the elites. It's totally gamed.
Oh that was never in doubt was it?
Quote from: theskull1 on December 08, 2023, 10:40:32 AMIt clearer to me now this past few years, there's another layer to how western global politics functions. The voting public and their opinions are of no interest to the elites. It's totally gamed.
As the old saying goes: "if voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal "
It's always been the case but it just appears less f**ks are given now so it's considerably more apparent.
Democracy is a feel good illusion, still the best option.
Yep.
In a lot of countries newspapers are owned by billionaires who will always support Israel.
Listen to this man speak about killing babies as if he was talking about rats...
https://twitter.com/Resist_05/status/1733008513163784237?t=m8QVuuxRMINrb_yhF4xeoA&s=19
Quote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PMHamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
And no doubt the Hamas leaders housed in luxury in Qatar knew when ordering the Oct 7 attacks that there would be thousands more orphans when the inevitable and abhorrent Israeli massacre occurred.
Hamas aren't anti-semites, they don't discriminate, they want to end to all non-Muslim life in Israel/Palestine. But they could care less about the Palestinian people who are martyred in the meantime.
At this stage the people in Palestine both in Gaza and the West Bank are really all that matters. Yet they have no voice. Nobody (of relevance) shouting stop or bringing help.
Quote from: Hound on December 08, 2023, 03:22:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PMHamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
And no doubt the Hamas leaders housed in luxury in Qatar knew when ordering the Oct 7 attacks that there would be thousands more orphans when the inevitable and abhorrent Israeli massacre occurred.
Hamas aren't anti-semites, they don't discriminate, they want to end to all non-Muslim life in Israel/Palestine. But they could care less about the Palestinian people who are martyred in the meantime.
At this stage the people in Palestine both in Gaza and the West Bank are really all that matters. Yet they have no voice. Nobody (of relevance) shouting stop or bringing help.
The people in Gaza voted for Hamas lad. In the west bank they didn't. They get murdered in west bank too, who caused that Hamas was it?
Hamas would settle for a 2 state solution, to 67 borders. Same as UN. You are watching too much American tv. If you want peace and a settlement you'll have to deal with Hamas
Quote from: Hound on December 08, 2023, 03:22:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PMHamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
And no doubt the Hamas leaders housed in luxury in Qatar knew when ordering the Oct 7 attacks that there would be thousands more orphans when the inevitable and abhorrent Israeli massacre occurred.
Hamas aren't anti-semites, they don't discriminate, they want to end to all non-Muslim life in Israel/Palestine. But they could care less about the Palestinian people who are martyred in the meantime.
At this stage the people in Palestine both in Gaza and the West Bank are really all that matters. Yet they have no voice. Nobody (of relevance) shouting stop or bringing help.
I disagree with most of that incorrect opinion in the 1st and 2nd paragraph.
never trust political parties
Not surprisingly the UK made themselves look like proper Cnuts again today at the UN
Biden will lose any credibility (if he had any) with his stance
US and UK want fucked out of the UN.
Quote from: Itchy on December 08, 2023, 03:53:18 PMQuote from: Hound on December 08, 2023, 03:22:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PMHamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
And no doubt the Hamas leaders housed in luxury in Qatar knew when ordering the Oct 7 attacks that there would be thousands more orphans when the inevitable and abhorrent Israeli massacre occurred.
Hamas aren't anti-semites, they don't discriminate, they want to end to all non-Muslim life in Israel/Palestine. But they could care less about the Palestinian people who are martyred in the meantime.
At this stage the people in Palestine both in Gaza and the West Bank are really all that matters. Yet they have no voice. Nobody (of relevance) shouting stop or bringing help.
The people in Gaza voted for Hamas lad. In the west bank they didn't. They get murdered in west bank too, who caused that Hamas was it?
Hamas would settle for a 2 state solution, to 67 borders. Same as UN. You are watching too much American tv. If you want peace and a settlement you'll have to deal with Hamas
Less of the 'lad' nonsense, no need to start with that shite.
As I have stated, and also referred to excellent podcasts with Oborne, the situation in the West Bank is horrible. Hard to imagine living in that context where you are being wronged so often and nobody to make the oppression stop. Not comparable to the utter devastation in Gaza.
Tom Clonan, a retired Irish captain who served in the Lebanon and has great knowledge of the region, and who utterly condemns the Israeli actions, described Hamas as follows last week:
"Hamas are exactly the same as Islamic State. Hamas is a death cult, an extreme Salafist / Wahhabi form of Sunni Islam that seeks the complete destruction of Israel and all Israelis. They want to set up a caliphate in the Middle East and completely eliminate Israel."
I'll take his views over yours.
Episode 1869 of the Stand podcast for anyone interested in balance. Mostly focuses on Israeli illegal actions of course and analysis of how they intend to complete their stated aim of eliminating Hamas and comparing it (somewhat) similar operations.
Quote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 10:50:30 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 08, 2023, 03:53:18 PMQuote from: Hound on December 08, 2023, 03:22:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PMHamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
And no doubt the Hamas leaders housed in luxury in Qatar knew when ordering the Oct 7 attacks that there would be thousands more orphans when the inevitable and abhorrent Israeli massacre occurred.
Hamas aren't anti-semites, they don't discriminate, they want to end to all non-Muslim life in Israel/Palestine. But they could care less about the Palestinian people who are martyred in the meantime.
At this stage the people in Palestine both in Gaza and the West Bank are really all that matters. Yet they have no voice. Nobody (of relevance) shouting stop or bringing help.
The people in Gaza voted for Hamas lad. In the west bank they didn't. They get murdered in west bank too, who caused that Hamas was it?
Hamas would settle for a 2 state solution, to 67 borders. Same as UN. You are watching too much American tv. If you want peace and a settlement you'll have to deal with Hamas
Less of the 'lad' nonsense, no need to start with that shite.
As I have stated, and also referred to excellent podcasts with Oborne, the situation in the West Bank is horrible. Hard to imagine living in that context where you are being wronged so often and nobody to make the oppression stop. Not comparable to the utter devastation in Gaza.
Tom Clonan, a retired Irish captain who served in the Lebanon and has great knowledge of the region, and who utterly condemns the Israeli actions, described Hamas as follows last week:
"Hamas are exactly the same as Islamic State. Hamas is a death cult, an extreme Salafist / Wahhabi form of Sunni Islam that seeks the complete destruction of Israel and all Israelis. They want to set up a caliphate in the Middle East and completely eliminate Israel."
I'll take his views over yours.
Episode 1869 of the Stand podcast for anyone interested in balance. Mostly focuses on Israeli illegal actions of course and analysis of how they intend to complete their stated aim of eliminating Hamas and comparing it (somewhat) similar operations.
They create Hamas, and now what to eliminate Hamas, how very American of them. You want to come across as balanced, but the bit in bold, jesus christ, everyone knows what their aim is..it is happening in front of our eyes, and has been for decades
Quote from: Itchy on December 08, 2023, 01:54:17 PMListen to this man speak about killing babies as if he was talking about rats...
https://twitter.com/Resist_05/status/1733008513163784237?t=m8QVuuxRMINrb_yhF4xeoA&s=19
The video is edited to cut out the bit about Hamas and make it seem like the IDF killed them.
The IDF have enough blood on their hands without false propaganda.
We live in an ugly world people.Sadly our spiritual leaders are just playing along with the powerful.
Quote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 10:50:30 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 08, 2023, 03:53:18 PMQuote from: Hound on December 08, 2023, 03:22:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PMHamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
And no doubt the Hamas leaders housed in luxury in Qatar knew when ordering the Oct 7 attacks that there would be thousands more orphans when the inevitable and abhorrent Israeli massacre occurred.
Hamas aren't anti-semites, they don't discriminate, they want to end to all non-Muslim life in Israel/Palestine. But they could care less about the Palestinian people who are martyred in the meantime.
At this stage the people in Palestine both in Gaza and the West Bank are really all that matters. Yet they have no voice. Nobody (of relevance) shouting stop or bringing help.
The people in Gaza voted for Hamas lad. In the west bank they didn't. They get murdered in west bank too, who caused that Hamas was it?
Hamas would settle for a 2 state solution, to 67 borders. Same as UN. You are watching too much American tv. If you want peace and a settlement you'll have to deal with Hamas
Less of the 'lad' nonsense, no need to start with that shite.
As I have stated, and also referred to excellent podcasts with Oborne, the situation in the West Bank is horrible. Hard to imagine living in that context where you are being wronged so often and nobody to make the oppression stop. Not comparable to the utter devastation in Gaza.
Tom Clonan, a retired Irish captain who served in the Lebanon and has great knowledge of the region, and who utterly condemns the Israeli actions, described Hamas as follows last week:
"Hamas are exactly the same as Islamic State. Hamas is a death cult, an extreme Salafist / Wahhabi form of Sunni Islam that seeks the complete destruction of Israel and all Israelis. They want to set up a caliphate in the Middle East and completely eliminate Israel."
I'll take his views over yours.
Episode 1869 of the Stand podcast for anyone interested in balance. Mostly focuses on Israeli illegal actions of course and analysis of how they intend to complete their stated aim of eliminating Hamas and comparing it (somewhat) similar operations.
balanced ha? Tom clonan is a dope like cathal Berry they love a good war or genocide. I've no idea how they would describe israel, who called the unwra and anyone who is critical anti semitic. it is not a religious war,
Hamas is a resistence force, they exist to resist the occupation. they are not ISIS, they ran ISIS from GAZA. You might look into the US and IsRaels associations with ISIS. they live side by side with Christians. Also the Charter updated in 2017 is clear.
There is only one side calling for (from the highest levels of goct.) and committing a genocide and its not the Palestinians.
Under international law you have the right to resist the occupier. to be clear for all the muppets that like to read into omissions or things not said, war crimes are war crimes whoever commits them.
How anyone can trust a word from the West after the US again failing to stop the slaughter of Palestinians again last night is beyond me.
After a coordinated media campaign about rape (omitting all the rapes/sexual assaults by Israelis over 75 years, some well documented and admitted by those who did it) all the while the world ignores the slaughter now in South Gaza. I wonder why it was pushed 60 days later.
I do not believe a word of the so called evidence of the Israelis but I am also not naive enough to believe rape was not possible on Oct 7th.
in the video which is cut at 18 secs, listen to the lies he tells about 8 babies and he does say they used tank shells on houses. they reduced the numbers of dead by 200 as they were badly burned and turned out to be hamas, do we all believe that Hamas burned themselves or could israel of burned them out? if Israel did, it surely they new they were firing on Hamas and wouldn't have count them In their dead. more likely they fired on everyone and burned hamas and Israelis alike.
Almost everything out of them is a lie, Owen Jones watched the film that they are happy to share with a selected group and debunks some of the narrative, all the while we don't hear from hostages as to hear Hamas treated hostages well is not good media for israel.
I have seen loads of footage of Hamas attacking The IOF in Gaza, none of The IOF attacking Hamas (all images are them shooting at walls etc. or looking down holes (one obviously on the second floor of a building) almost everything they post on the IDF twitter or Isareli twitter page is debunked in minutes. the post of the solider singing genocidal songs, robbing and ramsacking, these i believe as they video themselves doing it.
the lies of where they rounded up Hamas turns out to be civilians in a different part of Gaza. the imagery is familiar in every genocide.
How anyone can still both side this is beyond me. Shame on them, everyones voice should be used to amplify the calls to stop a genocide and apply international law and the 67 border, right of return in full..
Quote from: JoG2 on December 09, 2023, 11:07:14 AMQuote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 10:50:30 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 08, 2023, 03:53:18 PMQuote from: Hound on December 08, 2023, 03:22:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PMHamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
And no doubt the Hamas leaders housed in luxury in Qatar knew when ordering the Oct 7 attacks that there would be thousands more orphans when the inevitable and abhorrent Israeli massacre occurred.
Hamas aren't anti-semites, they don't discriminate, they want to end to all non-Muslim life in Israel/Palestine. But they could care less about the Palestinian people who are martyred in the meantime.
At this stage the people in Palestine both in Gaza and the West Bank are really all that matters. Yet they have no voice. Nobody (of relevance) shouting stop or bringing help.
The people in Gaza voted for Hamas lad. In the west bank they didn't. They get murdered in west bank too, who caused that Hamas was it?
Hamas would settle for a 2 state solution, to 67 borders. Same as UN. You are watching too much American tv. If you want peace and a settlement you'll have to deal with Hamas
Less of the 'lad' nonsense, no need to start with that shite.
As I have stated, and also referred to excellent podcasts with Oborne, the situation in the West Bank is horrible. Hard to imagine living in that context where you are being wronged so often and nobody to make the oppression stop. Not comparable to the utter devastation in Gaza.
Tom Clonan, a retired Irish captain who served in the Lebanon and has great knowledge of the region, and who utterly condemns the Israeli actions, described Hamas as follows last week:
"Hamas are exactly the same as Islamic State. Hamas is a death cult, an extreme Salafist / Wahhabi form of Sunni Islam that seeks the complete destruction of Israel and all Israelis. They want to set up a caliphate in the Middle East and completely eliminate Israel."
I'll take his views over yours.
Episode 1869 of the Stand podcast for anyone interested in balance. Mostly focuses on Israeli illegal actions of course and analysis of how they intend to complete their stated aim of eliminating Hamas and comparing it (somewhat) similar operations.
They create Hamas, and now what to eliminate Hamas, how very American of them. You want to come across as balanced, but the bit in bold, jesus christ, everyone knows what their aim is..it is happening in front of our eyes, and has been for decades
FFS, I wasn't explaining what the Israeli aim is, I was recommending a podcast that discusses how the Israelis might go about their next stage and interesting comparisons with previous sieges/wars.
Clonan is a former captain in the Irish army and a security expert and served in the Lebanon. He is not pro-Israel in any way, shape or form, but has some balance which, as you will have noted, the extremists on here hate
Quote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:02:04 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 09, 2023, 11:07:14 AMQuote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 10:50:30 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 08, 2023, 03:53:18 PMQuote from: Hound on December 08, 2023, 03:22:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PMHamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
And no doubt the Hamas leaders housed in luxury in Qatar knew when ordering the Oct 7 attacks that there would be thousands more orphans when the inevitable and abhorrent Israeli massacre occurred.
Hamas aren't anti-semites, they don't discriminate, they want to end to all non-Muslim life in Israel/Palestine. But they could care less about the Palestinian people who are martyred in the meantime.
At this stage the people in Palestine both in Gaza and the West Bank are really all that matters. Yet they have no voice. Nobody (of relevance) shouting stop or bringing help.
The people in Gaza voted for Hamas lad. In the west bank they didn't. They get murdered in west bank too, who caused that Hamas was it?
Hamas would settle for a 2 state solution, to 67 borders. Same as UN. You are watching too much American tv. If you want peace and a settlement you'll have to deal with Hamas
Less of the 'lad' nonsense, no need to start with that shite.
As I have stated, and also referred to excellent podcasts with Oborne, the situation in the West Bank is horrible. Hard to imagine living in that context where you are being wronged so often and nobody to make the oppression stop. Not comparable to the utter devastation in Gaza.
Tom Clonan, a retired Irish captain who served in the Lebanon and has great knowledge of the region, and who utterly condemns the Israeli actions, described Hamas as follows last week:
"Hamas are exactly the same as Islamic State. Hamas is a death cult, an extreme Salafist / Wahhabi form of Sunni Islam that seeks the complete destruction of Israel and all Israelis. They want to set up a caliphate in the Middle East and completely eliminate Israel."
I'll take his views over yours.
Episode 1869 of the Stand podcast for anyone interested in balance. Mostly focuses on Israeli illegal actions of course and analysis of how they intend to complete their stated aim of eliminating Hamas and comparing it (somewhat) similar operations.
They create Hamas, and now what to eliminate Hamas, how very American of them. You want to come across as balanced, but the bit in bold, jesus christ, everyone knows what their aim is..it is happening in front of our eyes, and has been for decades
FFS, I wasn't explaining what the Israeli aim is, I was recommending a podcast that discusses how the Israelis might go about their next stage and interesting comparisons with previous sieges/wars.
Clonan is a former captain in the Irish army and a security expert and served in the Lebanon. He is not pro-Israel in any way, shape or form, but has some balance which, as you will have noted, the extremists on here hate
extremists are those now calling for ceasefires and applications of international law.
Clonan is not balanced, he represents the secuity system and his opinon your provided is completely wrong. Bringing balance to 75 years of occupation and the reaction to that occupation is not bringing balance it's a cop out.
Good man php, make sure you don't listen to it, so you pretend to yourself what he said.
Quote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:38:04 PMGood man php, make sure you don't listen to it, so you pretend to yourself what he said.
to make it easier for you..
https://twitter.com/TadhgHickey/status/1733164959574479262?t=5Agy0Wu-8_cmWuIF4mYnyA&s=19
in this context, clonan is BBC, the reality is Al Jazeera. it is not balance, its a narrative to justify and downplay occupation.
I have no interet in listening to how Hamas can be militarily defeated, resisting an occupier cannot be defeated militarily, if you have a podcast that focuses on addressing the root cause, the occupation and addressing how to dismantle the apartheid system in Israel, how international law should be applied.... Im all ears.
Quote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:38:04 PMGood man php, make sure you don't listen to it, so you pretend to yourself what he said.
You are wasting your breath
Again php, neither me nor any of the podcasts I recommended has justified illegal occupation.
But Oborne, Clonan etc don't justify the Hamas massacre either.
Quote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:53:21 PMAgain php, neither me nor any of the podcasts I recommended has justified illegal occupation.
But Oborne, Clonan etc don't justify the Hamas massacre either.
Mostly focuses on Israeli illegal actions of course and analysis of how they intend to complete their stated aim of eliminating Hamas and comparing it (somewhat) similar operationsto end a resistence to an occupation, you end the occupation.
any other conversation is a distraction and pushing narratives that ignore the root cause and are just paying it lipservice.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 09, 2023, 02:57:34 PMQuote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:53:21 PMAgain php, neither me nor any of the podcasts I recommended has justified illegal occupation.
But Oborne, Clonan etc don't justify the Hamas massacre either.
Mostly focuses on Israeli illegal actions of course and analysis of how they intend to complete their stated aim of eliminating Hamas and comparing it (somewhat) similar operations
to end a resistence to an occupation, you end the occupation.
any other conversation is a distraction and pushing narratives that ignore the root cause and are just paying it lipservice.
I enjoy Dunphy's podcasts because he covers a wide range of stuff, including a excellent one on the history of Israel and how we got here that I mentioned previously, the West Bank situation and military strategy.
It's grim seeing how similar you are to some of the Zionists who claim someone is anti-Semitic if they mention even the slightest criticism of Israel. You're the exact mirror image.
Quote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 03:11:08 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 09, 2023, 02:57:34 PMQuote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:53:21 PMAgain php, neither me nor any of the podcasts I recommended has justified illegal occupation.
But Oborne, Clonan etc don't justify the Hamas massacre either.
Mostly focuses on Israeli illegal actions of course and analysis of how they intend to complete their stated aim of eliminating Hamas and comparing it (somewhat) similar operations
to end a resistence to an occupation, you end the occupation.
any other conversation is a distraction and pushing narratives that ignore the root cause and are just paying it lipservice.
I enjoy Dunphy's podcasts because he covers a wide range of stuff, including a excellent one on the history of Israel and how we got here that I mentioned previously, the West Bank situation and military strategy.
It's grim seeing how similar you are to some of the Zionists who claim someone is anti-Semitic if they mention even the slightest criticism of Israel. You're the exact mirror image.
I am no way similar to zionists or a mirror image of them. I am not surprised someone who already labeled people on here extremists who are calling for ceasefire and application of international law also liken me to zuonists. someone who fails to see the language of the occupier permeating through the media he consumes amd sold as balanced.
before the mods appear, I'll leave it there.
Quote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:02:04 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 09, 2023, 11:07:14 AMQuote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 10:50:30 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 08, 2023, 03:53:18 PMQuote from: Hound on December 08, 2023, 03:22:15 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 07, 2023, 11:22:00 PMHamas are an army of orphans. It's a false equivalence to compare them to Israel, the country that created them. Israel is much worse by a factor of 1000. I dare say main street, if you were born in Gaza you'd join yourself.
And no doubt the Hamas leaders housed in luxury in Qatar knew when ordering the Oct 7 attacks that there would be thousands more orphans when the inevitable and abhorrent Israeli massacre occurred.
Hamas aren't anti-semites, they don't discriminate, they want to end to all non-Muslim life in Israel/Palestine. But they could care less about the Palestinian people who are martyred in the meantime.
At this stage the people in Palestine both in Gaza and the West Bank are really all that matters. Yet they have no voice. Nobody (of relevance) shouting stop or bringing help.
The people in Gaza voted for Hamas lad. In the west bank they didn't. They get murdered in west bank too, who caused that Hamas was it?
Hamas would settle for a 2 state solution, to 67 borders. Same as UN. You are watching too much American tv. If you want peace and a settlement you'll have to deal with Hamas
Less of the 'lad' nonsense, no need to start with that shite.
As I have stated, and also referred to excellent podcasts with Oborne, the situation in the West Bank is horrible. Hard to imagine living in that context where you are being wronged so often and nobody to make the oppression stop. Not comparable to the utter devastation in Gaza.
Tom Clonan, a retired Irish captain who served in the Lebanon and has great knowledge of the region, and who utterly condemns the Israeli actions, described Hamas as follows last week:
"Hamas are exactly the same as Islamic State. Hamas is a death cult, an extreme Salafist / Wahhabi form of Sunni Islam that seeks the complete destruction of Israel and all Israelis. They want to set up a caliphate in the Middle East and completely eliminate Israel."
I'll take his views over yours.
Episode 1869 of the Stand podcast for anyone interested in balance. Mostly focuses on Israeli illegal actions of course and analysis of how they intend to complete their stated aim of eliminating Hamas and comparing it (somewhat) similar operations.
They create Hamas, and now what to eliminate Hamas, how very American of them. You want to come across as balanced, but the bit in bold, jesus christ, everyone knows what their aim is..it is happening in front of our eyes, and has been for decades
FFS, I wasn't explaining what the Israeli aim is, I was recommending a podcast that discusses how the Israelis might go about their next stage and interesting comparisons with previous sieges/wars.
Clonan is a former captain in the Irish army and a security expert and served in the Lebanon. He is not pro-Israel in any way, shape or form, but has some balance which, as you will have noted, the extremists on here hate
There really isn't any extremists or far left on here as far as I can see... Most just want the killing and illegal occupation to stop immediately. Surely that's the humane position to take?
Emotions definitely run high at times.
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 09, 2023, 02:52:10 PMQuote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:38:04 PMGood man php, make sure you don't listen to it, so you pretend to yourself what he said.
You are wasting your breath
Thought you were finished with this thread?
Your sum total in this thread is jibing at posters contributions, you've offered nothing else, diddly
Quote from: JoG2 on December 09, 2023, 03:46:34 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on December 09, 2023, 02:52:10 PMQuote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:38:04 PMGood man php, make sure you don't listen to it, so you pretend to yourself what he said.
You are wasting your breath
Thought you were finished with this thread?
Your sum total in this thread is jibing at posters contributions, you've offered nothing else, diddly
https://twitter.com/JustJewsUK/status/1733496686238982375?t=94aQ8nFennVSOcB_O1X8kg&s=19
https://twitter.com/TadhgHickey/status/1733171754875412509?t=SF6iu5n5ZCuWznpgNXmmig&s=19
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 09, 2023, 05:28:45 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 09, 2023, 03:46:34 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on December 09, 2023, 02:52:10 PMQuote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:38:04 PMGood man php, make sure you don't listen to it, so you pretend to yourself what he said.
You are wasting your breath
Thought you were finished with this thread?
Your sum total in this thread is jibing at posters contributions, you've offered nothing else, diddly
https://twitter.com/JustJewsUK/status/1733496686238982375?t=94aQ8nFennVSOcB_O1X8kg&s=19
That woman is absolutely vile
Here is some us/Israel propaganda
https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1733551728182657381?t=yURIvG6EJTW7by2C1jVR9g&s=19
They stripped these men but seemingly missed one guy had an AK-47.
sinn fein are not yoyur
Quote from: JoG2 on December 09, 2023, 06:45:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 09, 2023, 05:28:45 PMQuote from: JoG2 on December 09, 2023, 03:46:34 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on December 09, 2023, 02:52:10 PMQuote from: Hound on December 09, 2023, 02:38:04 PMGood man php, make sure you don't listen to it, so you pretend to yourself what he said.
You are wasting your breath
Thought you were finished with this thread?
Your sum total in this thread is jibing at posters contributions, you've offered nothing else, diddly
https://twitter.com/JustJewsUK/status/1733496686238982375?t=94aQ8nFennVSOcB_O1X8kg&s=19
That woman is absolutely vile
a good chance she becomes uk next pm
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1734314612189790250?t=QlgSsHGOtoEnEyUJkaYcVQ&s=19
Israelis suffer group trauma that goes back to WW2. They are paranoid and want to wipe out all threats. Group trauma can last for many decades. Famine trauma in Ireland lasted until the 1980s.
Quote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 02:38:29 PMIsraelis suffer group trauma that goes back to WW2. They are paranoid and want to wipe out all threats. Group trauma can last for many decades. Famine trauma in Ireland lasted until the 1980s.
Maybe but I don't recall the Irish government declaring war on civilians as a result of the famine. There is something that I can only describe as evil running through Israeli society in the same way as there was evil running through German society at the time of the Nazi's. It is scary what they can justify. I just watched a video for example of them blowing up a UN school, not with a rocket from the sky, but with explosives placed inside. This was done to loud cheers. Absolutely off the scale sickos.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
Quote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 02:38:29 PMIsraelis suffer group trauma that goes back to WW2. They are paranoid and want to wipe out all threats. Group trauma can last for many decades. Famine trauma in Ireland lasted until the 1980s.
Daniel Finkelstein had a great opinion piece in the UK Times a few weeks back about the mentality of Israelis/ Jews, the jist of it being People don't really understand what makes them tick, it was an interesting read. Seafoid mentions famine trauma, Israelis / Jews (& Finkelstein's piece) reference Masada. I remember the 80s TV Miniseries about it, it has always stuck in my mind, the holed up Jewish zealots killed themselves after a seige by the Romans rather than surrender.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2023, 03:20:36 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 02:38:29 PMIsraelis suffer group trauma that goes back to WW2. They are paranoid and want to wipe out all threats. Group trauma can last for many decades. Famine trauma in Ireland lasted until the 1980s.
Daniel Finkelstein had a great opinion piece in the UK Times a few weeks back about the mentality of Israelis/ Jews, the jist of it being People don't really understand what makes them tick, it was an interesting read. Seafoid mentions famine trauma, Israelis / Jews (& Finkelstein's piece) reference Masada. I remember the 80s TV Miniseries about it, it has always stuck in my mind, the holed up Jewish zealots killed themselves after a seige by the Romans rather than surrender.
Russians also have WW2 trauma. Most of the worst atrocities inckuding the Holocaust happened on the Eastern front
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/10/12/svetlana-alexievich-truth-many-voices/
The book touches on topics that were taboo during the Soviet period and have once again been excised from Putin's Russia: the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, by which Stalin and Hitler carved up Europe, the executions of deserters and the psychological effects of war for years to come. Her subjects recall sweaty nightmares, grinding teeth, short tempers and an inability to see forests without thinking of twisted bodies in shallow graves.
We thought we'd leave communism behind and everything would turn out fine. But it turns out you can't leave this and become free, because these people don't understand what freedom is
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
Quote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 03:28:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Clare Daly is very selective in the type of colonial oppression she is against. The very definition of a weasel herself.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 03:28:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Clare Daly is very selective in the type of colonial oppression she is against. The very definition of a weasel herself.
I assume you are talking about Russia?
Well I wont claim to know a lot about Russia but I do know that everything I hear about Russia is from Western Media and I also know that Western Media has been lying through their teeth on behalf of US/Israel for a long time. So then I have to wonder how much of what I am hearing about Russia is true.
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:49:02 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 03:28:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Clare Daly is very selective in the type of colonial oppression she is against. The very definition of a weasel herself.
I assume you are talking about Russia?
Well I wont claim to know a lot about Russia but I do know that everything I hear about Russia is from Western Media and I also know that Western Media has been lying through their teeth on behalf of US/Israel for a long time. So then I have to wonder how much of what I am hearing about Russia is true.
And does your sceptical brain ever wonder if Russia tells lies? Here is a clue: Almost everything Russia says is a lie and if you think otherwise then you definitely don't know a whole lot about Russia.
She is a disgrace on Russia, she is a disgrace on China. She is a national disgrace, her and that clown Wallace.
https://www.joe.ie/news/clare-daly-uyghir-genocide-772607
She's right about Israel.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 12, 2023, 04:37:02 PMShe's right about Israel.
She is but like a lot of the Irish anti-US crowd that only highlights her disgusting hypocrisy on the other issues. She is nothing but a hypocrite. Another George Galloway.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 04:34:35 PMShe is a disgrace on Russia, she is a disgrace on China. She is a national disgrace, her and that clown Wallace.
https://www.joe.ie/news/clare-daly-uyghir-genocide-772607
how would you describe the US/UK/EU who all are standing by watching a genocide and have the power to actually stop it?
no sanctions on Israeli, no weapons for Palestines???? sanctions on Russia and weapons for Ukraine... (I don't generally like to compare conflicts)
Daly and Wallace have been consistent, you can see their public statement at the outset of the Russia/Ukraine conflict and what it called for.
we don't know how much Russia lies as EU/UK/US decided that freedom of press only extends to media they approve off.
The hypocrisy of the US and. Britain when it comes to the Ukraine and Gaza sickens me. Biden is going to get tanked next year and Trump will turn the US into Hungary.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 12, 2023, 04:53:13 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 04:34:35 PMShe is a disgrace on Russia, she is a disgrace on China. She is a national disgrace, her and that clown Wallace.
https://www.joe.ie/news/clare-daly-uyghir-genocide-772607
how would you describe the US/UK/EU who all are standing by watching a genocide and have the power to actually stop it?
no sanctions on Israeli, no weapons for Palestines???? sanctions on Russia and weapons for Ukraine... (I don't generally like to compare conflicts)
Daly and Wallace have been consistent, you can see their public statement at the outset of the Russia/Ukraine conflict and what it called for.
we don't know how much Russia lies as EU/UK/US decided that freedom of press only extends to media they approve off.
The US/UK/EU are all hypocrites for supporting Ukraine against Russia's genocidal invasion and standing by watching Israel do the same thing to Palestine. That is obvious. Daly and her ilk are just the mirror image.
And as for her stance on Russia, she is just being disingenuous. When someone condemns Russia but then blames someone else for provoking the invasion (surprise surprise, the US) she is excusing Russia. Everything before 'but' is bullshit. Her calls for peace are very nice but mean f**k all to Putin. Her calls for no armaments to Ukraine if actually carried out would mean a greater slaughter in Ukraine because the Ukrainians are not going to give up but would just be slaughtered in greater numbers without the means to defend themselves.
BTW the US (and Russia) are signatories to an agreement to guarantee Ukraine's sovereignty. The help the US has given Ukraine so far doesn't even come close to fulfilling that pledge.
Quote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2023, 04:54:57 PMThe hypocrisy of the US and. Britain when it comes to the Ukraine and Gaza sickens me. Biden is going to get tanked next year and Trump will turn the US into Hungary.
It is sickening but that doesn't mean it is wrong to support Ukraine. They aren't mutually exclusive positions. The Grayzone Russian propaganda addled Irish brain seems to have a problem understanding this.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 05:10:25 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2023, 04:54:57 PMThe hypocrisy of the US and. Britain when it comes to the Ukraine and Gaza sickens me. Biden is going to get tanked next year and Trump will turn the US into Hungary.
It is sickening but that doesn't mean it is wrong to support Ukraine. They aren't mutually exclusive positions. The Grayzone Russian propaganda addled Irish brain seems to have a problem understanding this.
some 'irish brains' cannot understand calls for Peace as calls for peace and see it as extremist or pro Russian. (which we should leave to another thread). these 'irish brains' say ignore US proven interference but dont believe anything anyone else says either.
the US and its intelligence service has a long long long history of interference etc. in countries all around the world. If the US/UK/EU actually wanted peace it would be achievable.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 12, 2023, 05:20:17 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 05:10:25 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2023, 04:54:57 PMThe hypocrisy of the US and. Britain when it comes to the Ukraine and Gaza sickens me. Biden is going to get tanked next year and Trump will turn the US into Hungary.
It is sickening but that doesn't mean it is wrong to support Ukraine. They aren't mutually exclusive positions. The Grayzone Russian propaganda addled Irish brain seems to have a problem understanding this.
some 'irish brains' cannot understand calls for Peace as calls for peace and see it as extremist or pro Russian. (which we should leave to another thread). these 'irish brains' say ignore US proven interference but dont believe anything anyone else says either.
the US and its intelligence service has a long long long history of interference etc. in countries all around the world. If the US/UK/EU actually wanted peace it would be achievable.
It's telling that Ms. Daly and her ilk (i.e. the Grayzone Russian propaganda addled Irish, e.g. PHP) always aim their calls for 'peace' at US/UK/EU rather than Russia, the country that actually invaded Ukraine. Russia started this war in 2014, upped the ante in 2022 and could end it tomorrow (if they wanted, which they don't).
BTW I'd so love to hear all about the 'proven US interference'...over on the other thread if you prefer.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 06:01:37 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 12, 2023, 05:20:17 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 05:10:25 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2023, 04:54:57 PMThe hypocrisy of the US and. Britain when it comes to the Ukraine and Gaza sickens me. Biden is going to get tanked next year and Trump will turn the US into Hungary.
It is sickening but that doesn't mean it is wrong to support Ukraine. They aren't mutually exclusive positions. The Grayzone Russian propaganda addled Irish brain seems to have a problem understanding this.
some 'irish brains' cannot understand calls for Peace as calls for peace and see it as extremist or pro Russian. (which we should leave to another thread). these 'irish brains' say ignore US proven interference but dont believe anything anyone else says either.
the US and its intelligence service has a long long long history of interference etc. in countries all around the world. If the US/UK/EU actually wanted peace it would be achievable.
It's telling that Ms. Daly and her ilk (i.e. the Grayzone Russian propaganda addled Irish, e.g. PHP) always aim their calls for 'peace' at US/UK/EU rather than Russia, the country that actually invaded Ukraine. Russia started this war in 2014, upped the ante in 2022 and could end it tomorrow (if they wanted, which they don't).
BTW I'd so love to hear all about the 'proven US interference'...over on the other thread if you prefer.
Read Daly and Wallace statement, it was directed at Russia and the west. Peace is achieved by all sides of conflict.
sorry,I am making up interference by the US thats why you have never heard of it
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 04:15:12 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:49:02 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 03:28:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Clare Daly is very selective in the type of colonial oppression she is against. The very definition of a weasel herself.
I assume you are talking about Russia?
Well I wont claim to know a lot about Russia but I do know that everything I hear about Russia is from Western Media and I also know that Western Media has been lying through their teeth on behalf of US/Israel for a long time. So then I have to wonder how much of what I am hearing about Russia is true.
And does your sceptical brain ever wonder if Russia tells lies? Here is a clue: Almost everything Russia says is a lie and if you think otherwise then you definitely don't know a whole lot about Russia.
Well like I said all I hear is the western version which I thought you would have understood to mean that all I hear is western media telling me that Russia is lying. For example they told me Russia blew up their own gas line and a Dam. Now Russia said they didn't but obviously Russia is lying. Or maybe Russia wasn't lying about everything and the western media is lying. Is your closed mind open to that possibility?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 12, 2023, 05:20:17 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 05:10:25 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2023, 04:54:57 PMThe hypocrisy of the US and. Britain when it comes to the Ukraine and Gaza sickens me. Biden is going to get tanked next year and Trump will turn the US into Hungary.
It is sickening but that doesn't mean it is wrong to support Ukraine. They aren't mutually exclusive positions. The Grayzone Russian propaganda addled Irish brain seems to have a problem understanding this.
some 'irish brains' cannot understand calls for Peace as calls for peace and see it as extremist or pro Russian. (which we should leave to another thread). these 'irish brains' say ignore US proven interference but dont believe anything anyone else says either.
the US and its intelligence service has a long long long history of interference etc. in countries all around the world. If the US/UK/EU actually wanted peace it would be achievable.
Where there's resources to be plundered, and money to be made , you'll always get American (and other) "interference ".
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 12, 2023, 06:09:27 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 06:01:37 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 12, 2023, 05:20:17 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 05:10:25 PMQuote from: Applesisapples on December 12, 2023, 04:54:57 PMThe hypocrisy of the US and. Britain when it comes to the Ukraine and Gaza sickens me. Biden is going to get tanked next year and Trump will turn the US into Hungary.
It is sickening but that doesn't mean it is wrong to support Ukraine. They aren't mutually exclusive positions. The Grayzone Russian propaganda addled Irish brain seems to have a problem understanding this.
some 'irish brains' cannot understand calls for Peace as calls for peace and see it as extremist or pro Russian. (which we should leave to another thread). these 'irish brains' say ignore US proven interference but dont believe anything anyone else says either.
the US and its intelligence service has a long long long history of interference etc. in countries all around the world. If the US/UK/EU actually wanted peace it would be achievable.
It's telling that Ms. Daly and her ilk (i.e. the Grayzone Russian propaganda addled Irish, e.g. PHP) always aim their calls for 'peace' at US/UK/EU rather than Russia, the country that actually invaded Ukraine. Russia started this war in 2014, upped the ante in 2022 and could end it tomorrow (if they wanted, which they don't).
BTW I'd so love to hear all about the 'proven US interference'...over on the other thread if you prefer.
Read Daly and Wallace statement, it was directed at Russia and the west. Peace is achieved by all sides of conflict.
sorry,I am making up interference by the US thats why you have never heard of it
I've read the statement and more than once. All sides in the conflict? Again, since you can't seem to grasp this, Russia invaded Ukraine, its peaceful neighbour. Ukraine is defending itself, with assistance from the west (not near enough). This war ends tomorrow if Russia ends it's military invasion and goes home. Daly parrots Russian propaganda when she speaks of western provocation, excusing Russia in the process.
I've heard all the nonsense before about US interference in Ukraine, apparently provoking Russia, I want to hear it from you. Let's hear all about it.
Quote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 06:17:36 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 04:15:12 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:49:02 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 03:28:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Clare Daly is very selective in the type of colonial oppression she is against. The very definition of a weasel herself.
I assume you are talking about Russia?
Well I wont claim to know a lot about Russia but I do know that everything I hear about Russia is from Western Media and I also know that Western Media has been lying through their teeth on behalf of US/Israel for a long time. So then I have to wonder how much of what I am hearing about Russia is true.
And does your sceptical brain ever wonder if Russia tells lies? Here is a clue: Almost everything Russia says is a lie and if you think otherwise then you definitely don't know a whole lot about Russia.
Well like I said all I hear is the western version which I thought you would have understood to mean that all I hear is western media telling me that Russia is lying. For example they told me Russia blew up their own gas line and a Dam. Now Russia said they didn't but obviously Russia is lying. Or maybe Russia wasn't lying about everything and the western media is lying. Is your closed mind open to that possibility?
My mind is open to whoever blew up the Nordstream pipeline. I certainly don't believe anything written by Seymour Hersch and his 'US source' that strangely uses idiosyncratic Russian phrases like 'little waif in his underpants'.
The idea that Ukraine blew their own dam up causing a ecological and humanitarian disaster in their own country is just ludicrous. Russia's enemies have a habit of massacring themselves as in Bucha, blowing themselves up as in the Maternity hospital in Mariupol or the dam. If the Russians finally do decide to blow up the Zaporizhzhia NPP it will have been Ukraine that did that to themselves as well, naturally, as shown on a YouTube special by the Grayzone. Lap it up suckers.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 07:40:00 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 06:17:36 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 04:15:12 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:49:02 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 03:28:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Clare Daly is very selective in the type of colonial oppression she is against. The very definition of a weasel herself.
I assume you are talking about Russia?
Well I wont claim to know a lot about Russia but I do know that everything I hear about Russia is from Western Media and I also know that Western Media has been lying through their teeth on behalf of US/Israel for a long time. So then I have to wonder how much of what I am hearing about Russia is true.
And does your sceptical brain ever wonder if Russia tells lies? Here is a clue: Almost everything Russia says is a lie and if you think otherwise then you definitely don't know a whole lot about Russia.
Well like I said all I hear is the western version which I thought you would have understood to mean that all I hear is western media telling me that Russia is lying. For example they told me Russia blew up their own gas line and a Dam. Now Russia said they didn't but obviously Russia is lying. Or maybe Russia wasn't lying about everything and the western media is lying. Is your closed mind open to that possibility?
My mind is open to whoever blew up the Nordstream pipeline. I certainly don't believe anything written by Seymour Hersch and his 'US source' that strangely uses idiosyncratic Russian phrases like 'little waif in his underpants'.
The idea that Ukraine blew their own dam up causing a ecological and humanitarian disaster in their own country is just ludicrous. Russia's enemies have a habit of massacring themselves as in Bucha, blowing themselves up as in the Maternity hospital in Mariupol or the dam. If the Russians finally do decide to blow up the Zaporizhzhia NPP it will have been Ukraine that did that to themselves as well, naturally, as shown on a YouTube special by the Grayzone. Lap it up suckers.
Is this Syreus?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2023, 07:52:57 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 07:40:00 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 06:17:36 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 04:15:12 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:49:02 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 03:28:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Clare Daly is very selective in the type of colonial oppression she is against. The very definition of a weasel herself.
I assume you are talking about Russia?
Well I wont claim to know a lot about Russia but I do know that everything I hear about Russia is from Western Media and I also know that Western Media has been lying through their teeth on behalf of US/Israel for a long time. So then I have to wonder how much of what I am hearing about Russia is true.
And does your sceptical brain ever wonder if Russia tells lies? Here is a clue: Almost everything Russia says is a lie and if you think otherwise then you definitely don't know a whole lot about Russia.
Well like I said all I hear is the western version which I thought you would have understood to mean that all I hear is western media telling me that Russia is lying. For example they told me Russia blew up their own gas line and a Dam. Now Russia said they didn't but obviously Russia is lying. Or maybe Russia wasn't lying about everything and the western media is lying. Is your closed mind open to that possibility?
My mind is open to whoever blew up the Nordstream pipeline. I certainly don't believe anything written by Seymour Hersch and his 'US source' that strangely uses idiosyncratic Russian phrases like 'little waif in his underpants'.
The idea that Ukraine blew their own dam up causing a ecological and humanitarian disaster in their own country is just ludicrous. Russia's enemies have a habit of massacring themselves as in Bucha, blowing themselves up as in the Maternity hospital in Mariupol or the dam. If the Russians finally do decide to blow up the Zaporizhzhia NPP it will have been Ukraine that did that to themselves as well, naturally, as shown on a YouTube special by the Grayzone. Lap it up suckers.
Is this Syreus?
No.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 07:32:58 PMI've read the statement and more than once. All sides in the conflict? Again, since you can't seem to grasp this, Russia invaded Ukraine, its peaceful neighbour. Ukraine is defending itself, with assistance from the west (not near enough). This war ends tomorrow if Russia ends it's military invasion and goes home. Daly parrots Russian propaganda when she speaks of western provocation, excusing Russia in the process.
I've heard all the nonsense before about US interference in Ukraine, apparently provoking Russia, I want to hear it from you. Let's hear all about it.
Exactly. Russia invaded Ukraine, it is about as black and white as it gets.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 12, 2023, 08:19:58 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 07:32:58 PMI've read the statement and more than once. All sides in the conflict? Again, since you can't seem to grasp this, Russia invaded Ukraine, its peaceful neighbour. Ukraine is defending itself, with assistance from the west (not near enough). This war ends tomorrow if Russia ends it's military invasion and goes home. Daly parrots Russian propaganda when she speaks of western provocation, excusing Russia in the process.
I've heard all the nonsense before about US interference in Ukraine, apparently provoking Russia, I want to hear it from you. Let's hear all about it.
Exactly. Russia invaded Ukraine, it is about as black and white as it gets.
you have a real issue with comprehension.
we unequivocally condemn russias war of aggression against Ukraine and call on the russian federation to immediatly terminate all military activities in Ukraine, unconditionally withdraw it forces, and fully respect Ukraines territorial integrity, sovereignty and independenceI cannot engage with someone who starts with false narratives. You were able to pull up an article on a Chinese region but not aware of a long history of American interference, selective!
UNRWA school
https://twitter.com/AstroLoay/status/1734558402502684747?t=gwzOVeLhRCJF9hCJFHmuyA&s=19
the moral west
https://twitter.com/FranceskAlbs/status/1734671989141393531?t=tg2Lsq8coodUb6vZcsbbpg&s=19
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 12, 2023, 08:49:33 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 12, 2023, 08:19:58 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 07:32:58 PMI've read the statement and more than once. All sides in the conflict? Again, since you can't seem to grasp this, Russia invaded Ukraine, its peaceful neighbour. Ukraine is defending itself, with assistance from the west (not near enough). This war ends tomorrow if Russia ends it's military invasion and goes home. Daly parrots Russian propaganda when she speaks of western provocation, excusing Russia in the process.
I've heard all the nonsense before about US interference in Ukraine, apparently provoking Russia, I want to hear it from you. Let's hear all about it.
Exactly. Russia invaded Ukraine, it is about as black and white as it gets.
you have a real issue with comprehension.
we unequivocally condemn russias war of aggression against Ukraine and call on the russian federation to immediatly terminate all military activities in Ukraine, unconditionally withdraw it forces, and fully respect Ukraines territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence
I cannot engage with someone who starts with false narratives. You were able to pull up an article on a Chinese region but not aware of a long history of American interference, selective!
Yes, Ms Daly loves making statements like the above out of one side of her mouth but the she undoes it all by saying things like this out of the other, again and again:
"But we cannot ignore the part played by the EU and the US. That's not to excuse Russia. It's simply to explain, because you cannot solve a problem if you don't understand the root of it."
"That's not to excuse Russia." - Completely disingenuous because that is exactly what she s attempting with her bullshit. Thankfully most see through her.
Blaming the US and EU, like I said, everything before 'but' is bullshit-so tell me Mr. Henry Pearse, how did the EU and the US make Russia invade Ukraine eh? Let's hear you spout your Russian propaganda, go for it.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2023, 07:52:57 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 07:40:00 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 06:17:36 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 04:15:12 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:49:02 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 03:28:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Clare Daly is very selective in the type of colonial oppression she is against. The very definition of a weasel herself.
I assume you are talking about Russia?
Well I wont claim to know a lot about Russia but I do know that everything I hear about Russia is from Western Media and I also know that Western Media has been lying through their teeth on behalf of US/Israel for a long time. So then I have to wonder how much of what I am hearing about Russia is true.
And does your sceptical brain ever wonder if Russia tells lies? Here is a clue: Almost everything Russia says is a lie and if you think otherwise then you definitely don't know a whole lot about Russia.
Well like I said all I hear is the western version which I thought you would have understood to mean that all I hear is western media telling me that Russia is lying. For example they told me Russia blew up their own gas line and a Dam. Now Russia said they didn't but obviously Russia is lying. Or maybe Russia wasn't lying about everything and the western media is lying. Is your closed mind open to that possibility?
My mind is open to whoever blew up the Nordstream pipeline. I certainly don't believe anything written by Seymour Hersch and his 'US source' that strangely uses idiosyncratic Russian phrases like 'little waif in his underpants'.
The idea that Ukraine blew their own dam up causing a ecological and humanitarian disaster in their own country is just ludicrous. Russia's enemies have a habit of massacring themselves as in Bucha, blowing themselves up as in the Maternity hospital in Mariupol or the dam. If the Russians finally do decide to blow up the Zaporizhzhia NPP it will have been Ukraine that did that to themselves as well, naturally, as shown on a YouTube special by the Grayzone. Lap it up suckers.
Is this Syreus?
Nah, it has to be Sid Wadell. Angelo can't be far behind now.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 13, 2023, 12:36:28 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2023, 07:52:57 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 07:40:00 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 06:17:36 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 04:15:12 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:49:02 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 12, 2023, 03:36:32 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 12, 2023, 03:28:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 12, 2023, 03:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 12, 2023, 03:00:54 PMhttps://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1734550767590125745
In fairness to her she speaks on my behalf in Europe not like the other weasels we have as MEPs like Walsh and Kelleher who a deafening by their silence
Fair play to her.
Clare Daly is very selective in the type of colonial oppression she is against. The very definition of a weasel herself.
I assume you are talking about Russia?
Well I wont claim to know a lot about Russia but I do know that everything I hear about Russia is from Western Media and I also know that Western Media has been lying through their teeth on behalf of US/Israel for a long time. So then I have to wonder how much of what I am hearing about Russia is true.
And does your sceptical brain ever wonder if Russia tells lies? Here is a clue: Almost everything Russia says is a lie and if you think otherwise then you definitely don't know a whole lot about Russia.
Well like I said all I hear is the western version which I thought you would have understood to mean that all I hear is western media telling me that Russia is lying. For example they told me Russia blew up their own gas line and a Dam. Now Russia said they didn't but obviously Russia is lying. Or maybe Russia wasn't lying about everything and the western media is lying. Is your closed mind open to that possibility?
My mind is open to whoever blew up the Nordstream pipeline. I certainly don't believe anything written by Seymour Hersch and his 'US source' that strangely uses idiosyncratic Russian phrases like 'little waif in his underpants'.
The idea that Ukraine blew their own dam up causing a ecological and humanitarian disaster in their own country is just ludicrous. Russia's enemies have a habit of massacring themselves as in Bucha, blowing themselves up as in the Maternity hospital in Mariupol or the dam. If the Russians finally do decide to blow up the Zaporizhzhia NPP it will have been Ukraine that did that to themselves as well, naturally, as shown on a YouTube special by the Grayzone. Lap it up suckers.
Is this Syreus?
Nah, it has to be Sid Wadell. Angelo can't be far behind now.
No.
Everything is linked. Israel is now a liability for the US Democratic Party with an election next year in which they need to get everyone out in order to defeat Trump. If Trump gets in he will.shaft Ukraine by cutting a deal with Putin and intensify abortion control. This cannot happen because of thoughtless support for Israeli genocide. Young people will not vote for Biden unless he changes tack on Israel.
It is linked, it is linked to the weakness of Biden and or the US.
Putin is playing a waiting game. If Trump wins, he wins, not just because he owns him but because Trump is an isolationist.
Netanyahu is leading Biden by the nose and can carry out his genocidal fantasies without repercussions.
Iran/ Hezbollah have the Houthis throwing missiles at US ships in the gulf without response.
Maduro and Venezuela have their eyes on Guyana's oil.
And as always, China are playing the long game. The current incursions in the Whitsun reef in the Philippines are just testing the water as the US is supposed to have a mutual defence treaty. No response gives the green light for Taiwan incursions.
The US is no longer the worlds policeman, their legitimacy and their capability have been eroded.
Ukraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
No, they didn't, they abstained. Which is wise, given the very existence of their country may depend on US aid and armaments, which is not guaranteed (despite the US guaranteeing Ukrainian sovereignty in exchange for them giving up their nuclear weapons).
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Quote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Ireland was a neutral non-participant in WW2, don't what you have been reading.
153 countries voted for a ceasefire, the rest didn't vote for a ceasefire, in effect their vote was for a continuation of the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians.
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:14:39 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Ireland was a neutral non-participant in WW2, don't what you have been reading.
153 countries voted for a ceasefire, the rest didn't vote for a ceasefire, in effect their vote was for a continuation of the wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians.
I was merely using an analogy to point out how ludicrous it is to compare a vote against something with an abstention. I'm not surprised it went over your head.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
if there was any pressure on Ukraine would it not have been to vote against the ceasefire like the US did?
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Quote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 01:52:48 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
if there was any pressure on Ukraine would it not have been to vote against the ceasefire like the US did?
Who knows but an abstention would be the natural choice for any country which finds itself in an awkward situation with regard to allies voting one way at the UN and perhaps not wanting to anger them.
Not sure how Ukraine can expect worldwide support and not even do something as simple as support for a ceasefire in Gaza.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:55:35 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 01:52:48 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
if there was any pressure on Ukraine would it not have been to vote against the ceasefire like the US did?
Who knows but an abstention would be the natural choice for any country which finds itself in an awkward situation with regard to allies voting one way at the UN and perhaps not wanting to anger them.
If your allies are supporting Israel it's time to get new allies...
so the potential for hypocrisy from Ukraine is there then
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:56:26 PMNot sure how Ukraine can expect worldwide support and not even do something as simple as support for a ceasefire in Gaza.
An abstention is the wisest choice for a country in Ukraine's position.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:57:02 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:55:35 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 01:52:48 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
if there was any pressure on Ukraine would it not have been to vote against the ceasefire like the US did?
Who knows but an abstention would be the natural choice for any country which finds itself in an awkward situation with regard to allies voting one way at the UN and perhaps not wanting to anger them.
If your allies are supporting Israel it's time to get new allies...
Puerile nonsense.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:53:26 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Yeah I am sort of foolish like that tbf. Chagrined now that you've pointed it out.
Silly old me, I Find myself liking people more when they vote against dropping high explosives on babies than when they don't.
Wish I was a bit more sensible and pragmatic like yourself, maybe when I grow up who knows.
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 02:01:22 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:53:26 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Yeah I am sort of foolish like that tbf. Chagrined now that you've pointed it out.
Silly old me, I Find myself liking people more when they vote against dropping high explosives on babies than when they don't.
Wish I was a bit more sensible and pragmatic like yourself, maybe when I grow up who knows.
The Ukrainians know all about having high explosives dropped on them. I'm sure all they need is a good dose of your idealism to see them through this tight spot they're in.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:04:49 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 02:01:22 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:53:26 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Yeah I am sort of foolish like that tbf. Chagrined now that you've pointed it out.
Silly old me, I Find myself liking people more when they vote against dropping high explosives on babies than when they don't.
Wish I was a bit more sensible and pragmatic like yourself, maybe when I grow up who knows.
The Ukrainians know all about having high explosives dropped on them. I'm sure all they need is a good dose of your idealism to see them through this tight spot they're in.
which makes their decision to abstain even odder
Quote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:19 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:04:49 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 02:01:22 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:53:26 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Yeah I am sort of foolish like that tbf. Chagrined now that you've pointed it out.
Silly old me, I Find myself liking people more when they vote against dropping high explosives on babies than when they don't.
Wish I was a bit more sensible and pragmatic like yourself, maybe when I grow up who knows.
The Ukrainians know all about having high explosives dropped on them. I'm sure all they need is a good dose of your idealism to see them through this tight spot they're in.
which makes their decision to abstain even odder
Not really, when your very survival is reliant on aid and weapons from a wavering US. And an abstention is not a vote against, as I've pointed out many times already.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:11:41 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:19 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:04:49 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 02:01:22 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:53:26 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Yeah I am sort of foolish like that tbf. Chagrined now that you've pointed it out.
Silly old me, I Find myself liking people more when they vote against dropping high explosives on babies than when they don't.
Wish I was a bit more sensible and pragmatic like yourself, maybe when I grow up who knows.
The Ukrainians know all about having high explosives dropped on them. I'm sure all they need is a good dose of your idealism to see them through this tight spot they're in.
which makes their decision to abstain even odder
Not really, when your very survival is reliant on aid and weapons from a wavering US. And an abstention is not a vote against, as I've pointed out many times already.
so you keep saying. An abstention may not be a vote against but it is certainly not a vote for. And as I said, it's odd from Ukraine. Until you consider that Zelensky is pretty much pro israel
al Jazeera reporting that women and children excuted in a school by the IDF.
Quote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:16:05 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:11:41 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:19 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:04:49 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 02:01:22 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:53:26 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Yeah I am sort of foolish like that tbf. Chagrined now that you've pointed it out.
Silly old me, I Find myself liking people more when they vote against dropping high explosives on babies than when they don't.
Wish I was a bit more sensible and pragmatic like yourself, maybe when I grow up who knows.
The Ukrainians know all about having high explosives dropped on them. I'm sure all they need is a good dose of your idealism to see them through this tight spot they're in.
which makes their decision to abstain even odder
Not really, when your very survival is reliant on aid and weapons from a wavering US. And an abstention is not a vote against, as I've pointed out many times already.
so you keep saying. An abstention may not be a vote against but it is certainly not a vote for. And as I said, it's odd from Ukraine. Until you consider that Zelensky is pretty much pro israel
There are 40 Million Ukrainians. Zelensky is not Ukraine.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:24:00 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:16:05 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:11:41 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:19 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:04:49 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 02:01:22 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:53:26 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Yeah I am sort of foolish like that tbf. Chagrined now that you've pointed it out.
Silly old me, I Find myself liking people more when they vote against dropping high explosives on babies than when they don't.
Wish I was a bit more sensible and pragmatic like yourself, maybe when I grow up who knows.
The Ukrainians know all about having high explosives dropped on them. I'm sure all they need is a good dose of your idealism to see them through this tight spot they're in.
which makes their decision to abstain even odder
Not really, when your very survival is reliant on aid and weapons from a wavering US. And an abstention is not a vote against, as I've pointed out many times already.
so you keep saying. An abstention may not be a vote against but it is certainly not a vote for. And as I said, it's odd from Ukraine. Until you consider that Zelensky is pretty much pro israel
There are 40 Million Ukrainians. Zelensky is not Ukraine.
many of whom are suffering at the hands of russia in the same way Palestinians are suffering at the hands of israel. Odd decision from Ukraine
Quote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:27:24 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:24:00 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:16:05 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:11:41 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:19 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:04:49 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 02:01:22 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:53:26 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Yeah I am sort of foolish like that tbf. Chagrined now that you've pointed it out.
Silly old me, I Find myself liking people more when they vote against dropping high explosives on babies than when they don't.
Wish I was a bit more sensible and pragmatic like yourself, maybe when I grow up who knows.
The Ukrainians know all about having high explosives dropped on them. I'm sure all they need is a good dose of your idealism to see them through this tight spot they're in.
which makes their decision to abstain even odder
Not really, when your very survival is reliant on aid and weapons from a wavering US. And an abstention is not a vote against, as I've pointed out many times already.
so you keep saying. An abstention may not be a vote against but it is certainly not a vote for. And as I said, it's odd from Ukraine. Until you consider that Zelensky is pretty much pro israel
There are 40 Million Ukrainians. Zelensky is not Ukraine.
many of whom are suffering at the hands of russia in the same way Palestinians are suffering at the hands of israel. Odd decision from Ukraine
IMO quite understandable given their reliance on the US. I wish it were otherwise. The US is an unreliable ally.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Ireland was not a member of the Axis. It was politically impossible for Ireland to go to war with the Brits less than 20 years after the Black and Tans and partition but some help was provided all the same.
The Brits giving up the Treaty ports in 1938 was very short-sighted.
Ukraine needs the US and the EU to keep their support going. It needs €41nn just to keep Government going. The budget is allocated to the military. It cannot afford political grandstanding. Give them a break.
so hamas just threatened brits so does that mean the uk now have a right to put boots on the ground in gaza.
if you do something, say not vote against a genocide its only ok if you do it in your own self interest.
self interest is a handy excuse... someone should tell the Israel and Russia to use this.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 13, 2023, 05:29:13 PMif you do something, say not vote against a genocide its only ok if you do it in your own self interest.
self interest is a handy excuse... someone should tell the Israel and Russia to use this.
When you're on your knees and fighting for the very existence of your country then yes, I'd say it's excusable to abstain on a vote that could harm you. You have the luxury of sitting on your high horse while not having to endure random missile attacks or the possibility of freezing to death this winter. How nice for you.
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 03:30:24 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:27:24 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:24:00 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:16:05 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:11:41 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 13, 2023, 02:08:19 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 02:04:49 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 02:01:22 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:53:26 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 01:49:01 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:35:18 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 01:29:29 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 01:04:51 PMQuote from: 5times5times on December 13, 2023, 12:53:18 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 12:35:49 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2023, 12:33:05 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on December 13, 2023, 11:28:16 AMUkraine voted against a ceasefire in Gaza, the hyprocritical shower of scumbags, they can go f**k themselves from now on as far as I'm concerned.
Yep. A f**king disgrace after the whole world rowed in behind them.
Can't you read? They didn't vote against it.
Did you row in behind Ukraine Armagh18, eh?
They abstained, which in my eyes equals voting against. Same as the Brits
Ireland was a member of the Axis during WW2 because they were weren't a member of the Allies.
Totally different. But you know that anyway
Yes of course my statement is incorrect, a bit like saying an abstention is the same as a vote against at the UN. No one knows what pressure is being brought to bear on Ukraine. They are in a fight for their survival and their biggest ally has shown recent signs of wavering. But sure they should just take a moral stance and take it on the chin when the essential to their very survival flow of aid and weapons dries up.
They [rightly in my view] asked for, expected and accepted worldwide support for their resistance to an invasion by Russia.
They sought support for their stance in the UN criticising the invasion and used Russia's flagrant targetting of civilians and civilan infrastructure as a means of garnering sympathy and support for their cause.
Their gutless abstention the other night completely undermines that cause in my view. Using the targetting of civilians as means of raising support for your own cause but not showing an iota of empathy for an even greater war crime is despicable.
I am fairly certain that a large percentage of people will share that view and that there will be a massive decrease in support for the Ukrainian cause as result of this. And rightly so.
You say all this with the luxury of not having Russian missiles raining down on your head and having to rely on certain allies for your survival. But sure, according to you, more Ukrainian children should now die because of the political situation Ukraine finds itself in. You're an idealistic fool.
Yeah I am sort of foolish like that tbf. Chagrined now that you've pointed it out.
Silly old me, I Find myself liking people more when they vote against dropping high explosives on babies than when they don't.
Wish I was a bit more sensible and pragmatic like yourself, maybe when I grow up who knows.
The Ukrainians know all about having high explosives dropped on them. I'm sure all they need is a good dose of your idealism to see them through this tight spot they're in.
which makes their decision to abstain even odder
Not really, when your very survival is reliant on aid and weapons from a wavering US. And an abstention is not a vote against, as I've pointed out many times already.
so you keep saying. An abstention may not be a vote against but it is certainly not a vote for. And as I said, it's odd from Ukraine. Until you consider that Zelensky is pretty much pro israel
There are 40 Million Ukrainians. Zelensky is not Ukraine.
many of whom are suffering at the hands of russia in the same way Palestinians are suffering at the hands of israel. Odd decision from Ukraine
IMO quite understandable given their reliance on the US. I wish it were otherwise. The US is an unreliable ally.
I can't disagree with your last line
Quote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 05:46:12 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 13, 2023, 05:29:13 PMif you do something, say not vote against a genocide its only ok if you do it in your own self interest.
self interest is a handy excuse... someone should tell the Israel and Russia to use this.
When you're on your knees and fighting for the very existence of your country then yes, I'd say it's excusable to abstain on a vote that could harm you. You have the luxury of sitting on your high horse while not having to endure random missile attacks or the possibility of freezing to death this winter. How nice for you.
edit - pointless trying engaging with you, and I'm sure you are running out of insults to call me at this stage!!
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 13, 2023, 06:13:06 PMQuote from: ThereAndBackAgain on December 13, 2023, 05:46:12 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 13, 2023, 05:29:13 PMif you do something, say not vote against a genocide its only ok if you do it in your own self interest.
self interest is a handy excuse... someone should tell the Israel and Russia to use this.
When you're on your knees and fighting for the very existence of your country then yes, I'd say it's excusable to abstain on a vote that could harm you. You have the luxury of sitting on your high horse while not having to endure random missile attacks or the possibility of freezing to death this winter. How nice for you.
on there knees, a few posts back you said they weren't losing.
Israel and Russia have and do use excuses for there actions all based on their own interests, that is a massive part of the issue.
I also said they aren't currently winning either. I'd say everything that Ukraine has endured over the past almost 2 years fits the description of being on your knees.
Israel and Russia are aggressors. Ukraine is defending itself. Big difference.
more questions being asked, now by Haaretz.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-12-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/if-israel-used-a-procedure-against-its-citizens-we-need-to-talk-about-it-now/0000018c-6383-de43-affd-f783212e0000
and absolutely no two state solution
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1735002128135905602?t=MUdFfgeoUQ_Q8MMF_tam2g&s=19
Norman Finkelstein vs Alan Dershowitz On Israel-Palestine War With Piers Morgan
The gaslighting of this genocide from the pro israel crowd is sickening
Quote from: theskull1 on December 13, 2023, 11:30:26 PMThe gaslighting of this genocide from the pro israel crowd is sickening
The use of the word genocide is inappropriate. It is not difficult to condemn Israeli violence without having to use excessive language. It is this type of poor argument that facilitate this gaslighting, but people are playing to their own crowd with slogans rather than effectively condemning Israel.
Definition from the man who invented the word in 1944. It's the right word AFAIC
Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups. Genocide is directed against the national group as an entity, and the actions involved are directed against individuals, not in their individual capacity, but as members of the national group.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 13, 2023, 08:41:54 PMmore questions being asked, now by Haaretz.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-12-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/if-israel-used-a-procedure-against-its-citizens-we-need-to-talk-about-it-now/0000018c-6383-de43-affd-f783212e0000
and absolutely no two state solution
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1735002128135905602?t=MUdFfgeoUQ_Q8MMF_tam2g&s=19
So no two state solution. That leaves only 3 possibilities. An integrated state, which would give Palestinians equal standing (not happening). An integrated explicitly apartheid state.
Or ethnic cleansing with an Israeli Jewish state from....um...the river to the sea.
Which seems more likely the end goal?
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 14, 2023, 01:19:04 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 13, 2023, 08:41:54 PMmore questions being asked, now by Haaretz.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-12-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/if-israel-used-a-procedure-against-its-citizens-we-need-to-talk-about-it-now/0000018c-6383-de43-affd-f783212e0000
and absolutely no two state solution
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1735002128135905602?t=MUdFfgeoUQ_Q8MMF_tam2g&s=19
So no two state solution. That leaves only 3 possibilities. An integrated state, which would give Palestinians equal standing (not happening). An integrated explicitly apartheid state.
Or ethnic cleansing with an Israeli Jewish state from....um...the river to the sea.
Which seems more likely the end goal?
the latter. Genocide is very much the appropriate word because in words at the very top of the Israeli government and in actions that is what is happening.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 13, 2023, 11:42:40 PMQuote from: theskull1 on December 13, 2023, 11:30:26 PMThe gaslighting of this genocide from the pro israel crowd is sickening
The use of the word genocide is inappropriate. It is not difficult to condemn Israeli violence without having to use excessive language. It is this type of poor argument that facilitate this gaslighting, but people are playing to their own crowd with slogans rather than effectively condemning Israel.
I'm sorry but if this is not genocide then the word has no meaning. Israel isn't even bothering to pretend anymore, they are telling you straight up what their intentions are.
Dont believe me, here is Norman Finkelstein. A white American Jew, a man whose parents were in concentration camps and a expert on israel- palestine conflict calling it what it is
https://twitter.com/PiersUncensored/status/1735048067844337698?t=-MPJAoepAMyk8BPvA2j6bw&s=19
Quote from: armaghniac on December 13, 2023, 11:42:40 PMQuote from: theskull1 on December 13, 2023, 11:30:26 PMThe gaslighting of this genocide from the pro israel crowd is sickening
The use of the word genocide is inappropriate. It is not difficult to condemn Israeli violence without having to use excessive language. It is this type of poor argument that facilitate this gaslighting, but people are playing to their own crowd with slogans rather than effectively condemning Israel.
It's not gaslighting or inappropriate though. Look at what is happening. Look at how many children have died.
Tbh I think it is gaslighting to say it's not genocide.
Its the definition of genocide ffs.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 03:38:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
That's rubbish mate.
Israel is carpet bombing a densely packed city and refugee camps. It is analogous to the Warsaw ghetto except that even the Nazis didn't try to complete level that from the air with 2 ton bombs or go in with tanks or bomb schools and hospitals.
They are assassinating doctors, intellectuals and journalists. They have murdered many multiples of babies to combatants.
And if you don't believe me a quick google search will show you multiple members of the Israeli cabinet and army telling you that that's exactly what they are doing.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 03:38:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
As they saying goes, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. When Giora Eiland, the head of Israel's National Security Council openly says that their plan is to make sure that "Gaza will become a place where no human beings can exist" then you are clutching at straws to say they are not committing genocide for a start.
But then consider that he also stated Israel's hope that "Severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza strip will bring victory closer and reduce casualties among IDF soldiers" - which already sounds bad enough until you stand back and realise that this is PRECISELY the plan Israel seems to be implenting before the world's eyes. It has insisted the entire civilian population of Gaza, the majority of whom are children (with already weakened immune systems), cram themselves into an area smaller than Heathrow airport and forces them to co-exist in that overpopulated space with no clean water and no access to healthcare facilities as 80% of Gaza's hospitals are no longer functioning.
So I'd suggest dropping the weasel words. This is attempted genocide.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 03:38:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
You should run for election in the US, you'd be a shoe in. Intentional targeting of civilians, hospitals, schools, places of worship. Cutting off fuel, water, food supplies. IS GENOCIDE.
Trauma means Israel and Russia don't have history. They have myths. They are paranoid, led by sociopaths and so easy to manipulate. Israel is now an out of control liability. I remember the Judge Goldstone controversy a decade ago. Prominent Zionists like Dershowitz said the Jewish family could deal with the fallout. Zionism now is a cancer at the heart of Judaism. Someone has to stop them.
Quote from: Itchy on December 14, 2023, 04:26:45 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 03:38:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
You should run for election in the US, you'd be a shoe in. Intentional targeting of civilians, hospitals, schools, places of worship. Cutting off fuel, water, food supplies. IS GENOCIDE.
The US electorate seems quite stupid, I can't see them voting for me. Genocide is a particular thing, the conduct of military operations regardless of civilians may well be a crime, but still not genocide.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 05:41:18 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 14, 2023, 04:26:45 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 03:38:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
You should run for election in the US, you'd be a shoe in. Intentional targeting of civilians, hospitals, schools, places of worship. Cutting off fuel, water, food supplies. IS GENOCIDE.
The US electorate seems quite stupid, I can't see them voting for me. Genocide is a particular thing, the conduct of military operations regardless of civilians may well be a crime, but still not genocide.
It is not a war. It is a turkey shoot. It is not proportionate. It is driven by biblical vengeance outside the laws of war. Of course it is genocide.
Quote from: seafoid on December 14, 2023, 06:06:07 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 05:41:18 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 14, 2023, 04:26:45 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 03:38:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
You should run for election in the US, you'd be a shoe in. Intentional targeting of civilians, hospitals, schools, places of worship. Cutting off fuel, water, food supplies. IS GENOCIDE.
The US electorate seems quite stupid, I can't see them voting for me. Genocide is a particular thing, the conduct of military operations regardless of civilians may well be a crime, but still not genocide.
It is not a war. It is a turkey shoot. It is not proportionate. It is driven by biblical vengeance outside the laws of war. Of course it is genocide.
Opposium totalis... Internet is full of them
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 05:41:18 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 14, 2023, 04:26:45 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 03:38:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
You should run for election in the US, you'd be a shoe in. Intentional targeting of civilians, hospitals, schools, places of worship. Cutting off fuel, water, food supplies. IS GENOCIDE.
The US electorate seems quite stupid, I can't see them voting for me. Genocide is a particular thing, the conduct of military operations regardless of civilians may well be a crime, but still not genocide.
I don't want to get into a ridiculous debate but this is the United nations definition...
In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.
Now I'm sorry again but you are either on the wind up or just looking to argue about this for the sake of it.
Quote from: Itchy on December 14, 2023, 07:53:04 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 05:41:18 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 14, 2023, 04:26:45 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 03:38:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
You should run for election in the US, you'd be a shoe in. Intentional targeting of civilians, hospitals, schools, places of worship. Cutting off fuel, water, food supplies. IS GENOCIDE.
The US electorate seems quite stupid, I can't see them voting for me. Genocide is a particular thing, the conduct of military operations regardless of civilians may well be a crime, but still not genocide.
I don't want to get into a ridiculous debate but this is the United nations definition...
In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.
I am not on the wind up or arguing for the sake of it. Ukraine is actively trying to kill a certain group of Russians, notably those occupying its territory, but I do not think this is genocide. Nor do I think that the Allied invasion of Germany was genocide, although killed members of the group and imposed poor living conditions on others.
Got to remember those who make this definition. Carpet bombed Dresden, :( with incendiary bombs creating a fire storm in WW2.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2023, 03:38:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2023, 09:24:01 AMIts the definition of genocide ffs.
It is not. Isreal has the arms to kill everyone in Gaza if they wanted to.
The analogy I used before was, this is analogous to the invasion of Poland, when many Poles were killed, but is not analogous to the holocaust, which actually was genocide.
They don't need to kill everyone in Gaza to make it genocide. Destroying the infrastructure and driving the population out makes in genocide.
Armaghniac has been provided and appears have ignored 2 post defining 1944 and 1948 definitions of what is considered genocide... but he thinks it isn't so everyone should just go with his opinion :o
from the river to the see Palestine will be free is apparently a call for genocide.
intifada is call for genocide
calling amd marching for a ceasefire is a call for genocide
actual calls for genocide by Israeli government and acts of genocide aren't genocide!!
Quote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2023, 11:05:24 PMArmaghniac has been provided and appears have ignored 2 post defining 1944 and 1948 definitions of what is considered genocide... but he thinks it isn't so everyone should just go with his opinion :o
I am more persuaded by LeoMc's post, as there is a clear intention to damage a large proportion of infrastructure.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 14, 2023, 11:54:25 PMfrom the river to the see Palestine will be free is apparently a call for genocide.
intifada is call for genocide
calling amd marching for a ceasefire is a call for genocide
The river to the see proposal seems to involve removing Israelis, so that meets the definition of a call for genocide, but not the act.
Intifada is a an "act committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group", so is a genocide by your definition. I would argue that it is not.
Calling for a ceasefire is clearly not genocide, and no reasonable person claims it is.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 15, 2023, 12:04:25 AMQuote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2023, 11:05:24 PMArmaghniac has been provided and appears have ignored 2 post defining 1944 and 1948 definitions of what is considered genocide... but he thinks it isn't so everyone should just go with his opinion :o
I am more persuaded by LeoMc's post, as there is a clear intention to damage a large proportion of infrastructure.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 14, 2023, 11:54:25 PMfrom the river to the see Palestine will be free is apparently a call for genocide.
intifada is call for genocide
calling amd marching for a ceasefire is a call for genocide
The river to the see proposal seems to involve removing Israelis, so that meets the definition of a call for genocide, but not the act.
Intifada is a an "act committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group", so is a genocide by your definition. I would argue that it is not.
Calling for a ceasefire is clearly not genocide, and no reasonable person claims it is.
nowhere in the river to the sea chant is a call for the genocide of Israeli, nowhere. calling for something to be free does not mean something else has to die.
that's not my definition of genocide and not the meaning of intifada, intifada means uprising, resistence and civil disobedience.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 15, 2023, 12:04:25 AMQuote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2023, 11:05:24 PMArmaghniac has been provided and appears have ignored 2 post defining 1944 and 1948 definitions of what is considered genocide... but he thinks it isn't so everyone should just go with his opinion :o
I am more persuaded by LeoMc's post, as there is a clear intention to damage a large proportion of infrastructure.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 14, 2023, 11:54:25 PMfrom the river to the see Palestine will be free is apparently a call for genocide.
intifada is call for genocide
calling amd marching for a ceasefire is a call for genocide
The river to the see proposal seems to involve removing Israelis, so that meets the definition of a call for genocide, but not the act.
Intifada is a an "act committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group", so is a genocide by your definition. I would argue that it is not.
Calling for a ceasefire is clearly not genocide, and no reasonable person claims it is.
by this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?
I have never seen that definition of intifida before either
Quote from: tonto1888 on December 15, 2023, 08:48:06 AMby this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?
I have never seen that definition of intifida before either
Not the same thing, part of Ireland is ruled by another place, Britain.
The problem with the idea of from the river to the sea is that the majority in that area actually want the present arrangement, and some of those who advocate the slogan seem to envisage removing that majority.
As for genocide generally, these definitions clearly make the October attack genocide, and Israel can simply say that their objective is to prevent such genocide in the future.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 15, 2023, 11:28:29 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 15, 2023, 08:48:06 AMby this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?
I have never seen that definition of intifida before either
Not the same thing, part of Ireland is ruled by another place, Britain.
The problem with the idea of from the river to the sea is that the majority in that area actually want the present arrangement, and some of those who advocate the slogan seem to envisage removing that majority.
As for genocide generally, these definitions clearly make the October attack genocide, and Israel can simply say that their objective is to prevent such genocide in the future.
There was no genocide on October 7th, you have gone saying what Israel is doing is not genocide to saying this!!!
I have no idea how you can rationalise what you are posting here.
if some people don't want Palestinians to be free then the issue is with those people not those calling for freedom. International law and the right of return of refugees displaced by conflicts allows for them to return. Israel denies palestinians the right of return.
Nothing in from the river to the sea means genocide. Does BLMs mean genocide for all other races.
The UN definition is unhelpfully broad. The "in whole or part" clause is completely vague. How many of a group do you have to kill before you cross the "in part" threshold? That vagueness is at the root of the above disagreement.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2023, 12:42:41 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 15, 2023, 11:28:29 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 15, 2023, 08:48:06 AMby this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?
I have never seen that definition of intifida before either
Not the same thing, part of Ireland is ruled by another place, Britain.
The problem with the idea of from the river to the sea is that the majority in that area actually want the present arrangement, and some of those who advocate the slogan seem to envisage removing that majority.
As for genocide generally, these definitions clearly make the October attack genocide, and Israel can simply say that their objective is to prevent such genocide in the future.
There was no genocide on October 7th, you have gone saying what Israel is doing is not genocide to saying this!!!
I have no idea how you can rationalise what you are posting here.
if some people don't want Palestinians to be free then the issue is with those people not those calling for freedom. International law and the right of return of refugees displaced by conflicts allows for them to return. Israel denies palestinians the right of return.
Nothing in from the river to the sea means genocide. Does BLMs mean genocide for all other races.
Some of the loopers in that movement would say yes lol
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 15, 2023, 01:14:33 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2023, 12:42:41 PMQuote from: armaghniac on December 15, 2023, 11:28:29 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on December 15, 2023, 08:48:06 AMby this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?
I have never seen that definition of intifida before either
Not the same thing, part of Ireland is ruled by another place, Britain.
The problem with the idea of from the river to the sea is that the majority in that area actually want the present arrangement, and some of those who advocate the slogan seem to envisage removing that majority.
As for genocide generally, these definitions clearly make the October attack genocide, and Israel can simply say that their objective is to prevent such genocide in the future.
There was no genocide on October 7th, you have gone saying what Israel is doing is not genocide to saying this!!!
I have no idea how you can rationalise what you are posting here.
if some people don't want Palestinians to be free then the issue is with those people not those calling for freedom. International law and the right of return of refugees displaced by conflicts allows for them to return. Israel denies palestinians the right of return.
Nothing in from the river to the sea means genocide. Does BLMs mean genocide for all other races.
Some of the loopers in that movement would say yes lol
the reason I didn't use it as an example earlier was it would invite that sort of comment.
saying BLMs or from the river to the sea is not a call for genocide, the words used do not call for genocide where as we must cut electric, water and food from Gaza is a genocidal comment (especially when the person saying it has the power to do it) or all gazans must die is.
if those who say BLM also hold views like all other races must die then its the expression of all other races must that's genocidal not saying BLM.
it rare you get to hear someone able to speak in the media about Hamas like this and what they previously stated and offered regarding the 2 state solution. A direct comparison to what was on sky yesterday when Israel said no 2 state solution which of course meant western leaders were 'disappointed' to hear.
https://twitter.com/ngeorge00/status/1735611743718502701?t=KZ1hRpUXkk7HZpWcSmzg1Q&s=19
Reminds me of Edwin Poots' Da who advocated for cutting off electricity and public services for catholic areas back in 70's. Same mindset. Spose they are the lost tribe of Israel though
Lads this thread is away to the dogs.
Who cares about the semantics around who said what.
The proof of genocide is in what is actually happening in Gaza. What more do you need?
Someone in the Israeli establishing issuing a statement saying "we're doing genocide"?
Regardless of who said what or who continues to deny what's going on, this is genocide.
The Israelis are trying to wipe a people out as is evidenced by the attacks on civilians, the cutting off of water, electricity, food, medical supplies and the blockade of the entire region.
How else could it be described?
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 15, 2023, 12:52:55 PMThe UN definition is unhelpfully broad. The "in whole or part" clause is completely vague. How many of a group do you have to kill before you cross the "in part" threshold? That vagueness is at the root of the above disagreement.
Exactly. Let's agree to disagree on the semantics.
However, however you characterise the October 7 attack it was worse in nature, but not in extent, than what has happened since.
What happened on Oct 7th was not worst in nature than what happened since or even what happened before.
If you are comfortable denying a genocide that genocide scholars have called a genocide that's your perogative.
The US and Israel are isolated. Soon Israel will be alone.
Israeli leaders certainly seem to regard it as a genocide... A video compilation of their own words on the matter.
https://twitter.com/againstwarvoice/status/1735246580276506970?t=6_TTUM6RbzXrofF-FxsOAQ&s=19
CNN news report from inside Gaza. Contains very distressing images.
https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1735364202024288448?s=20
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2023, 04:38:30 PMThe US and Israel are isolated. Soon Israel will be alone.
But it's too late...far too late.
The IDF shot and killed 3 Israeli hostages today. They thought they were a threat so they opened fire.
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 15, 2023, 09:44:49 PMThe IDF shot and killed 3 Israeli hostages today. They thought they were a threat so they opened fire.
They were a threat, the may have said dangerous things like they were treated and fed well.
Quote from: Itchy on December 15, 2023, 10:50:42 PMQuote from: Capt Pat on December 15, 2023, 09:44:49 PMThe IDF shot and killed 3 Israeli hostages today. They thought they were a threat so they opened fire.
They were a threat, the may have said dangerous things like they were treated and fed well.
they weren't fed well, there is little or no food in Gaza.
look at the nature of of the IDF a couple of days ago.
https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1735787398242460044?t=xBAAgqjdz5rfgTan3P9z8g&s=19
According to Le Monde, Israel has killed 2 civilians for every Hamas militant killed. Around half of these are kids.
I'd say the ratio is a lot higher than that.
I'd say you're right. Could be a lot of innocent men being counted as Hamas fighters.
Euro med has c25,000 with c10,000 are children.
That means c8,350 resistence fighters to c16,650 civilians.
So civilians are made up of c10,000 children and c6,650 adults.
c3,150 women (euro med) and c3,500 men.
despite making up 50% of the population with the 2:1 in seafoid posts, children are murdered disproportionately.
Euro med has civilians at c.23,000 by the way.
Euro med includes estimates of those also under the rubble.
I was wondering if when Israel admitted to killing 3 hostages what really actually happened, if they were willing to admit that much.
waving a white flag.
https://twitter.com/btselem/status/1736008212753564009?t=cF2HlAoPZl3Fw3xObcX-NA&s=19
Fairly obvious they thought they were Palestinians waving white flags and gunned them down.
Quote from: An Watcher on December 16, 2023, 02:28:05 PMFairly obvious they thought they were Palestinians waving white flags and gunned them down.
Begging for their lives in Hebrew probably confused them a bit but can't take any chances these days when it comes to Hamas...
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2023, 03:23:29 PMQuote from: An Watcher on December 16, 2023, 02:28:05 PMFairly obvious they thought they were Palestinians waving white flags and gunned them down.
Begging for their lives in Hebrew probably confused them a bit but can't take any chances these days when it comes to Hamas...
Hamas were hiding inside those half naked white flag waving people so it was justified I'm afraid.
Quote from: general_lee on December 16, 2023, 03:23:29 PMQuote from: An Watcher on December 16, 2023, 02:28:05 PMFairly obvious they thought they were Palestinians waving white flags and gunned them down.
Begging for their lives in Hebrew probably confused them a bit but can't take any chances these days when it comes to Hamas...
They shot the guy in Jerusalem who shot the Hamas bus stop killers, he also begged for his life in Hebrew.
apparently they were shirtless so does that rule out the possibility they thought they were suicide bombers trying to get close
So.... resources. Is this what it's really all about then ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XFwORpILJJY (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XFwORpILJJY)
looks hezbollah and iran sold hamas out hamas found out they got no real friends in middle east.
There's a little undertone of people seemingly happy that the hostages were killed by Israeli soldiers..
Crazy world
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 12:28:29 PMThere's a little undertone of people seemingly happy that the hostages were killed by Israeli soldiers..
Crazy world
didn't pick that up at all, maybe speaks to your midndframe more than others.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2023, 12:50:57 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 12:28:29 PMThere's a little undertone of people seemingly happy that the hostages were killed by Israeli soldiers..
Crazy world
didn't pick that up at all, maybe speaks to your midndframe more than others.
[/quote
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2023, 12:50:57 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 12:28:29 PMThere's a little undertone of people seemingly happy that the hostages were killed by Israeli soldiers..
Crazy world
didn't pick that up at all, maybe speaks to your midndframe more than others.
You see what you want to see, so not surprising
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 01:54:33 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2023, 12:50:57 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 12:28:29 PMThere's a little undertone of people seemingly happy that the hostages were killed by Israeli soldiers..
Crazy world
didn't pick that up at all, maybe speaks to your midndframe more than others.
[/quote
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2023, 12:50:57 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 12:28:29 PMThere's a little undertone of people seemingly happy that the hostages were killed by Israeli soldiers..
Crazy world
didn't pick that up at all, maybe speaks to your midndframe more than others.
You see what you want to see, so not surprising
that's its exactly, 'you'... nobody remotely suggested any happiness at hostages dying but yet you saw an undertone, no-on else saw these undertones like you.
your mindset sees any support for or concern for Palestinans as wanting Israeli dead, crazy!
I don't support murder in any form by any group.
Those posting about the killing of hostages mentioned
Begging for their lives in Hebrew probably confused them a bit
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 02:44:43 PMI don't support murder in any form by any group.
Those posting about the killing of hostages mentioned
Begging for their lives in Hebrew probably confused them a bit
Yes, Israel is more used to killing unarmed innocent Palestinians who beg for their life in Arabic, that was the point I took. Something they denied continually despite a massive amount of evidence to the contrary.and widely ignored by the West.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2023, 02:56:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 02:44:43 PMI don't support murder in any form by any group.
Those posting about the killing of hostages mentioned
Begging for their lives in Hebrew probably confused them a bit
Yes, Israel is more used to killing unarmed innocent Palestinians who beg for their life in Arabic, that was the point I took. Something they denied continually despite a massive amount of evidence to the contrary.and widely ignored by the West.
You can take what you want.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 02:58:56 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2023, 02:56:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2023, 02:44:43 PMI don't support murder in any form by any group.
Those posting about the killing of hostages mentioned
Begging for their lives in Hebrew probably confused them a bit
Yes, Israel is more used to killing unarmed innocent Palestinians who beg for their life in Arabic, that was the point I took. Something they denied continually despite a massive amount of evidence to the contrary.and widely ignored by the West.
You can take what you want.
that's exactly my point, I took that point of view, your point of view is that those who support or are concerned about palestinans take some form of happiness from Israelis dying... crazy mindset.
Even when the IDF killed Israeli hostages waving a white flag which you would think might elicit a 'crazy world' comment you decided to use it instead say posters took happiness from their deaths.
This looks very bad for Netanyahu.
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2023, 04:24:14 PMThis looks very bad for Netanyahu.
What that shooting shows is that Israel's soldiers don't respect civilian life, nor soldier/civilian handing themselves in. Dont respect the white flag either. Don't respect journalists in gear or medics. Shoot them all dead on site is clearly the policy.
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2023, 04:24:14 PMThis looks very bad for Netanyahu.
It doesn't matter. They can do whatever they want :(
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 17, 2023, 06:44:46 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 17, 2023, 04:24:14 PMThis looks very bad for Netanyahu.
It doesn't matter. They can do whatever they want :(
Shooting their own people drives public anger in Israel. Netanyahu is finished imo.
Israel considers Palestinians to be vermin. They shot their own people as vermin. Israel is so fucked up.
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2023, 08:42:32 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on December 17, 2023, 06:44:46 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 17, 2023, 04:24:14 PMThis looks very bad for Netanyahu.
It doesn't matter. They can do whatever they want :(
Shooting their own people drives public anger in Israel. Netanyahu is finished imo.
From what I can gather if Netanyahu is done it because his big security promise failed on Oct 7th. This isn't a people looking for a more moderate leader and an end to the slaughter. It's a people, for the most, looking to finish the job.
Quote from: Itchy on December 18, 2023, 02:44:08 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 17, 2023, 08:42:32 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on December 17, 2023, 06:44:46 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 17, 2023, 04:24:14 PMThis looks very bad for Netanyahu.
It doesn't matter. They can do whatever they want :(
Shooting their own people drives public anger in Israel. Netanyahu is finished imo.
From what I can gather if Netanyahu is done it because his big security promise failed on Oct 7th. This isn't a people looking for a more moderate leader and an end to the slaughter. It's a people, for the most, looking to finish the job.
Unfortunately for Palestinians and moderate Israelis, this is true. Netanyahu keeps cobbling together just enough support from the hard right land thieves to keep himself in power and delay the criminal charges.
Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2023, 10:29:09 AMIsrael considers Palestinians to be vermin. They shot their own people as vermin. Israel is so fucked up.
Zionists are no better than Nazis
Quote from: red hander on December 18, 2023, 03:16:07 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 18, 2023, 10:29:09 AMIsrael considers Palestinians to be vermin. They shot their own people as vermin. Israel is so fucked up.
Zionists are no better than Nazis
Sin é. Same as Russia. Group trauma. Addicted to violence. US Jews are so different.
https://youtu.be/hRlsu-4BNv8
Genocide. No debate, no question
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1738172124961952189?t=pjRGPZdFE1CYNHpaS4oQRg&s=19
I hope Joe Biden is proud of himself facilitating this and preventing any attempts at stopping it.
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2023, 02:54:51 PMI hope Joe Biden is proud of himself facilitating this and preventing any attempts at stopping it.
Needs chased from the place if he ever tries to visit here again.
https://youtube.com/shorts/BrBe_kpfL5g
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 22, 2023, 06:35:15 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2023, 02:54:51 PMI hope Joe Biden is proud of himself facilitating this and preventing any attempts at stopping it.
Needs chased from the place if he ever tries to visit here again.
If Irish politicians had anything in them, they should all boycott the St. Patrick's Day junket in 2024.
Quote from: marty34 on December 22, 2023, 10:25:51 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 22, 2023, 06:35:15 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2023, 02:54:51 PMI hope Joe Biden is proud of himself facilitating this and preventing any attempts at stopping it.
Needs chased from the place if he ever tries to visit here again.
If Irish politicians had anything in them, they should all boycott the St. Patrick's Day junket in 2024.
They don't and they won't
Unfortunately, there are good reasons for politicians on this island to maintain good relations with the US.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on December 22, 2023, 11:04:39 PMUnfortunately, there are good reasons for politicians on this island to maintain good relations with the US.
None good enough to back murdering kids though.
Quote from: Itchy on December 22, 2023, 10:53:03 PMQuote from: marty34 on December 22, 2023, 10:25:51 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 22, 2023, 06:35:15 PMQuote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2023, 02:54:51 PMI hope Joe Biden is proud of himself facilitating this and preventing any attempts at stopping it.
Needs chased from the place if he ever tries to visit here again.
If Irish politicians had anything in them, they should all boycott the St. Patrick's Day junket in 2024.
They don't and they won't
If he does return a lot of people will oppose him. Because Ireland will always side against the warmongers and with the oppressed.
Time to abolish the United Nations as it can only do what Bidenetanyahu allows it to.
3 days to draft a watery resolution that people in Gaza should get aid.
Are Arab Ststes supplying Israel with oil?
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2023, 09:58:18 AMTime to abolish the United Nations as it can only do what Bidenetanyahu allows it to.
3 days to draft a watery resolution that people in Gaza should get aid.
Are Arab Ststes supplying Israel with oil?
Would they have their own? Apparently off the coast of Gaza is full of oil/gas
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 23, 2023, 11:01:27 AMQuote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2023, 09:58:18 AMTime to abolish the United Nations as it can only do what Bidenetanyahu allows it to.
3 days to draft a watery resolution that people in Gaza should get aid.
Are Arab Ststes supplying Israel with oil?
Would they have their own? Apparently off the coast of Gaza is full of oil/gas
Turkey is one of their biggest suppliers as I understand it. When you hear arab leaders condemn Israel it's just posturing. They too are in the pockets of the US and the posturing is to appease their citizens who are unhappy. Think FF leaders during the troubles.
Unexpected result of war. Christmas cancelled
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/december/bethlehem-cancel-christmas-christian-pastors-church-nativit.html
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2023, 09:58:18 AMTime to abolish the United Nations as it can only do what Bidenetanyahu allows it to.
3 days to draft a watery resolution that people in Gaza should get aid.
Are Arab Ststes supplying Israel with oil?
No. Azerbaijan trades oil with Israel for weapons
You'd think the Arab nations would develop a 'UN' type of organisation.
Do they not all work together?
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2023, 09:58:18 AMTime to abolish the United Nations Security Council as it can only do what Bidenetanyahu allows it to.
Probably more accurate.
League of Arab States is on the go as long as the UN. No idea how effective it is (not very I'd imagine).
Its as clear as day that the Zionists want to empty Gaza. All of this feels like a preconceived operation.
Israeli forces 'massacre' at least 70 in Gaza's al-Maghazi refugee camp (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/24/israeli-forces-massacre-at-least-70-people-in-gazas-maghazi-refugee-camp)
Netanyahu say "Hamas must be destroyed for peace."
I hope he dies in agony
And Stephen Fry has disgraced himself by conflating UK Jews with Zionism
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1849077/stephen-fry-israel-christmas-message-channel-4
Don't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 02:28:39 PMDon't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
It depends on how antisemitism is defined. Criticism of Israeli butchery is not antisemitic
Quote from: theskull1 on December 25, 2023, 12:00:31 AMIts as clear as day that the Zionists want to empty Gaza. All of this feels like a preconceived operation.
Israeli forces 'massacre' at least 70 in Gaza's al-Maghazi refugee camp (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/24/israeli-forces-massacre-at-least-70-people-in-gazas-maghazi-refugee-camp)
Yeah, this is the way it seems from day one.
To destroy and wipe out Gaza.
Saddest thing is the rest of the world stands on and watches it happen. That's the saddest thing for me.
Quote from: seafoid on December 26, 2023, 02:43:09 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 02:28:39 PMDon't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
It depends on how antisemitism is defined. Criticism of Israeli butchery is not antisemitic
Unless you're walking around the UK and Jewish then you'll find it hard to know...
We'll go with the rates of antisemitism being reported?
Now if he turned round and said the Israeli government is correct in bombing Gaza into the sea I'd be with you on your point on him disgracing himself.
That level of exaggeration though is not helpful
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 03:25:47 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 26, 2023, 02:43:09 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 02:28:39 PMDon't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
It depends on how antisemitism is defined. Criticism of Israeli butchery is not antisemitic
Unless you're walking around the UK and Jewish then you'll find it hard to know...
We'll go with the rates of antisemitism being reported?
Now if he turned round and said the Israeli government is correct in bombing Gaza into the sea I'd be with you on your point on him disgracing himself.
That level of exaggeration though is not helpful
Antisemitism is defined now by the IHRA deficition which includes criticism of Israel as Jew hatred.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 02:28:39 PMDon't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
It's a bit of a coincidence though that Stephen Fry, an atheist, does a Christmas message and decides the topic of the day to be discussed is Anti Semitism? I mean, could he not have thought the ending of a either the slaughter in Gaza or the war in Ukraine were topics more worthy.
A long time since I was so disappointed in a person. I've got a few of his books, I just threw them in the recycle bin.
Quote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 06:18:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 02:28:39 PMDon't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
It's a bit of a coincidence though that Stephen Fry, an atheist, does a Christmas message and decides the topic of the day to be discussed is Anti Semitism? I mean, could he not have thought the ending of a either the slaughter in Gaza or the war in Ukraine were topics more worthy.
A long time since I was so disappointed in a person. I've got a few of his books, I just threw them in the recycle bin.
I'm sure he's disappointed you bought his books and threw them into the bin.
Two wrongs don't make a right, discussing the antisemitism doesn't mean he's for Genocide in Gaza
Genocide is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews. This sentiment is a form of racism, which we should all be against?
Again if he's for the continued bombing then I hope he's 'cancelled'
Quote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 06:18:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 02:28:39 PMDon't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
It's a bit of a coincidence though that Stephen Fry, an atheist, does a Christmas message and decides the topic of the day to be discussed is Anti Semitism? I mean, could he not have thought the ending of a either the slaughter in Gaza or the war in Ukraine were topics more worthy.
A long time since I was so disappointed in a person. I've got a few of his books, I just threw them in the recycle bin.
He may be an Athiest but he's still Jewish, he's got a dog in the fight.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 26, 2023, 06:57:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 06:18:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 02:28:39 PMDon't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
It's a bit of a coincidence though that Stephen Fry, an atheist, does a Christmas message and decides the topic of the day to be discussed is Anti Semitism? I mean, could he not have thought the ending of a either the slaughter in Gaza or the war in Ukraine were topics more worthy.
A long time since I was so disappointed in a person. I've got a few of his books, I just threw them in the recycle bin.
He may be an Athiest but he's still Jewish, he's got a dog in the fight.
Really. How can you be a Jew and athiest? I am an atheist and I don't consider myself a Catholic or a Christian. I certainly wouldn't accept an offer to give a "Christmas message" to anyone
Quote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 07:02:26 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 26, 2023, 06:57:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 06:18:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 02:28:39 PMDon't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
It's a bit of a coincidence though that Stephen Fry, an atheist, does a Christmas message and decides the topic of the day to be discussed is Anti Semitism? I mean, could he not have thought the ending of a either the slaughter in Gaza or the war in Ukraine were topics more worthy.
A long time since I was so disappointed in a person. I've got a few of his books, I just threw them in the recycle bin.
He may be an Athiest but he's still Jewish, he's got a dog in the fight.
Really. How can you be a Jew and athiest? I am an atheist and I don't consider myself a Catholic or a Christian. I certainly wouldn't accept an offer to give a "Christmas message" to anyone
To paraphrase David Baddiel, the Nazis didn't stop to ask if you were were an observant Jew.
Honestly Itchy, that is so ignorant its unreal.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 26, 2023, 07:15:26 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 07:02:26 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 26, 2023, 06:57:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 06:18:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 02:28:39 PMDon't get mixed up, if the numbers are up on antisemitism then that's true. Did he he say what's happening in Palestine wrong?
It's a bit of a coincidence though that Stephen Fry, an atheist, does a Christmas message and decides the topic of the day to be discussed is Anti Semitism? I mean, could he not have thought the ending of a either the slaughter in Gaza or the war in Ukraine were topics more worthy.
A long time since I was so disappointed in a person. I've got a few of his books, I just threw them in the recycle bin.
He may be an Athiest but he's still Jewish, he's got a dog in the fight.
Really. How can you be a Jew and athiest? I am an atheist and I don't consider myself a Catholic or a Christian. I certainly wouldn't accept an offer to give a "Christmas message" to anyone
To paraphrase David Baddiel, the Nazis didn't stop to ask if you were were an observant Jew.
Honestly Itchy, that is so ignorant its unreal.
If you say so. Next time you fill in the census and it asks your religion and asks you to select one, let me know if you've the option to select 2.
The German Nazis haven't been in business for 80 yrs so not sure what your point is there.
My point is, if you haven't got it already, there are probably 100 more frequent types of discrimination ahead of anti Semitism and his little talk is bullshit.
You're conflating Religion with culture & heritage and all that entails and acting the candyman tho. Unless you want to tell Fry and Baddiel they're not Jews because they don't go to synagogue.
Israel are genocidal c***ts, we are aware. Jewish people can still have their concerns and voice them - the Channel 4 'alternative' Christmas message is different every year - it is an opinion piece. Glad you watched it to get offended.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 26, 2023, 07:42:50 PMYou're conflating Religion with culture & heritage and all that entails and acting the candyman tho. Unless you want to tell Fry and Baddiel they're not Jews because they don't go to synagogue.
Israel are genocidal c***ts, we are aware. Jewish people can still have their concerns and voice them - the Channel 4 'alternative' Christmas message is different every year - it is an opinion piece. Glad you watched it to get offended.
Questions..
Can you be a Catholic and atheist?
Can you be a Muslim and atheist?
Can you be a Hindu and athiest?
Judaism is not a culture not a heritage, it's a religion.
I have lost respect for Fry, Offended? No. I just think he's a stupid p***k for doing that.
Can you identify as not being catholic or atheist?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 07:50:16 PMCan you identify as not being catholic or atheist?
A Muslim would not be a Catholic nor an atheist.
Here is a english Jewish Comedian doing a more topical Christmas message.
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1739610945167483144?t=B8CSaWFd1_y5GT1_NuIReA&s=19
Quote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 07:46:07 PMQuote from: bennydorano on December 26, 2023, 07:42:50 PMYou're conflating Religion with culture & heritage and all that entails and acting the candyman tho. Unless you want to tell Fry and Baddiel they're not Jews because they don't go to synagogue.
Israel are genocidal c***ts, we are aware. Jewish people can still have their concerns and voice them - the Channel 4 'alternative' Christmas message is different every year - it is an opinion piece. Glad you watched it to get offended.
Questions..
Can you be a Catholic and atheist?
Can you be a Muslim and atheist?
Can you be a Hindu and athiest?
Judaism is not a culture not a heritage, it's a religion.
I have lost respect for Fry, Offended? No. I just think he's a stupid p***k for doing that.
The rest of the world is in on something you are cleary not.
Goodnight, that's enough for me.
You didn't answer the question I asked, why you running away from it?
Quote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 07:54:03 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 07:50:16 PMCan you identify as not being catholic or atheist?
A Muslim would not be a Catholic nor an atheist.
Here is a english Jewish Comedian doing a more topical Christmas message.
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1739610945167483144?t=B8CSaWFd1_y5GT1_NuIReA&s=19
I'll word it slightly better now
You asked, can you be catholic and an atheist.. I'd assume you can't, you're either or, or something else.
But you can still hold a view that there is an increase of antisemitism in the uk.
What's it (his past or present beliefs) got to do with what he said? Did he say anything incorrect?
Will you cancel every 'celebrity' if they say there's an increase of racist hate crimes?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 08:48:39 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 07:54:03 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 07:50:16 PMCan you identify as not being catholic or atheist?
A Muslim would not be a Catholic nor an atheist.
Here is a english Jewish Comedian doing a more topical Christmas message.
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1739610945167483144?t=B8CSaWFd1_y5GT1_NuIReA&s=19
I'll word it slightly better now
You asked, can you be catholic and an atheist.. I'd assume you can't, you're either or, or something else.
But you can still hold a view that there is an increase of antisemitism in the uk.
What's it (his past or present beliefs) got to do with what he said? Did he say anything incorrect?
Will you cancel every 'celebrity' if they say there's an increase of racist hate crimes?
A man who has no time for religion, at Christmas time decides he will give a talk asking us to stand with Jews at a time that Israel is committing Genocide against Palestinians, murdering 100s on Christmas day. This was not coincidental, at least I don't believe it was
If he had called for peace, ceasefire etc in the holy land I'd have some respect but he seems to have forgotten all that - maybe he doesn't watch tv and this is all a coincidence?
Quote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 09:00:17 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 08:48:39 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 07:54:03 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 07:50:16 PMCan you identify as not being catholic or atheist?
A Muslim would not be a Catholic nor an atheist.
Here is a english Jewish Comedian doing a more topical Christmas message.
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1739610945167483144?t=B8CSaWFd1_y5GT1_NuIReA&s=19
I'll word it slightly better now
You asked, can you be catholic and an atheist.. I'd assume you can't, you're either or, or something else.
But you can still hold a view that there is an increase of antisemitism in the uk.
What's it (his past or present beliefs) got to do with what he said? Did he say anything incorrect?
Will you cancel every 'celebrity' if they say there's an increase of racist hate crimes?
A man who has no time for religion, at Christmas time decides he will give a talk asking us to stand with Jews at a time that Israel is committing Genocide against Palestinians, murdering 100s on Christmas day. This was not coincidental, at least I don't believe it was
If he had called for peace, ceasefire etc in the holy land I'd have some respect but he seems to have forgotten all that - maybe he doesn't watch tv and this is all a coincidence?
Is he talking about UK Jews having increased attacks in the UK?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 09:09:10 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 09:00:17 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 08:48:39 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 26, 2023, 07:54:03 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 07:50:16 PMCan you identify as not being catholic or atheist?
A Muslim would not be a Catholic nor an atheist.
Here is a english Jewish Comedian doing a more topical Christmas message.
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1739610945167483144?t=B8CSaWFd1_y5GT1_NuIReA&s=19
I'll word it slightly better now
You asked, can you be catholic and an atheist.. I'd assume you can't, you're either or, or something else.
But you can still hold a view that there is an increase of antisemitism in the uk.
What's it (his past or present beliefs) got to do with what he said? Did he say anything incorrect?
Will you cancel every 'celebrity' if they say there's an increase of racist hate crimes?
A man who has no time for religion, at Christmas time decides he will give a talk asking us to stand with Jews at a time that Israel is committing Genocide against Palestinians, murdering 100s on Christmas day. This was not coincidental, at least I don't believe it was
If he had called for peace, ceasefire etc in the holy land I'd have some respect but he seems to have forgotten all that - maybe he doesn't watch tv and this is all a coincidence?
Is he talking about UK Jews having increased attacks in the UK?
There is a concerted campaign from Zionist quarters to play victim and cry anti-Semitism. This is just another effort at the same. They are trying to equate anti Israel and Anti Zionism as being the same as Anti Semitism. Its ridiculous and especially so when you look where the real victims are - the children of Gaza blown to bits by Zionist Nazis
Just because he hasn't discussed it doesn't mean he's supporting what's happening in Gaza.
But you have been able to take what he said and changed the context to suit yourself.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 09:24:25 PMJust because he hasn't discussed it doesn't mean he's supporting what's happening in Gaza.
But you have been able to take what he said and changed the context to suit yourself.
His silence on it is deafening as they say Miltown. You can believe what you like regarding his motives as is your right.
The actual first thing you've done Itchy in referencing Fry is to deny his right to see himself as Jewish (because he's an atheist), if that isn't anti-semitic I don't know what is. The fact you can't (or choose not to imo) accept this is absolutely pathetic. Its nothing to do with Gaza in itself, it is the definition of anti-semitism and reinforces the point Fry was trying to make. Play the ball Not the man.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 26, 2023, 09:36:48 PMThe actual first thing you've done Itchy in referencing Fry is to deny his right to see himself as Jewish (because he's an atheist), if that isn't anti-semitic I don't know what is. The fact you can't (or choose not to imo) accept this is absolutely pathetic. Its nothing to do with Gaza in itself, it is the definition of anti-semitism and reinforces the point Fry was trying to make. Play the ball Not the man.
Well what you've done is deny me an athiest, who is also a Catholic as I share a culture and heritage with Catholics around the world in Ireland, Phillipines, chile and outer mongolia etc. You've denied me the right to be anti Jewish as the Jews killed Jesus as i was thought before I became an athiest. But that belief still lingers in my Catholic culture. So you are anti Catholic (self hating Catholic?) and sectarian and indeed pathetic. I'm glad we've cleared this up. I'm anti Semitic and you are anti Catholic. Brilliant.
You'll enjoy reading that in the morning, very Ewanesque.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 26, 2023, 10:36:02 PMYou'll enjoy reading that in the morning, very Ewanesque.
Yep, it's complete bullshit for sure.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2023, 09:24:25 PMJust because he hasn't discussed it doesn't mean he's supporting what's happening in Gaza.
But you have been able to take what he said and changed the context to suit yourself.
Did you come down in the last shower? The point of the speech was to distract people. He supports the turkey shoot. Note he didn't mention any desire for a ceasefire.
since iran are now saying this was revenge for solemani does that means this was an official act of war by iran on Israel
Israel specialises in brutal reprisals. The Brits carried out some vile operations in the North but never on the scale of what the Israelis are doing with 20,000 in less than 3 months. The Israelis are more like the Nazis who destroyed Lidice in reprisal for the assassination of Heydrich. Crossmaglen was never razed.
https://youtu.be/w2aCVpOCGFI&t=1620
Quote from: seafoid on December 27, 2023, 12:28:19 PMIsrael specialises in brutal reprisals. The Brits carried out some vile operations in the North but never on the scale of what the Israelis are doing with 20,000 in less than 3 months. The Israelis are more like the Nazis who destroyed Lidice in reprisal for the assassination of Heydrich. Crossmaglen was never razed.
https://youtu.be/w2aCVpOCGFI&t=1620
Isreal is almost unique in having US support for doing this. The US would not have supported razing Crossmaglen.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2023, 01:25:58 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 27, 2023, 12:28:19 PMIsrael specialises in brutal reprisals. The Brits carried out some vile operations in the North but never on the scale of what the Israelis are doing with 20,000 in less than 3 months. The Israelis are more like the Nazis who destroyed Lidice in reprisal for the assassination of Heydrich. Crossmaglen was never razed.
https://youtu.be/w2aCVpOCGFI&t=1620
Zionists have power over Congress in Washington due to money.
Isreal is almost unique in having US support for doing this. The US would not have supported razing Crossmaglen.
I don't think it is sustainable. Tammany Hall was an irish lobby that was similar but it collapsed in the 30s under Mayor La Guardia.
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2023, 01:25:58 PMQuote from: seafoid on December 27, 2023, 12:28:19 PMIsrael specialises in brutal reprisals. The Brits carried out some vile operations in the North but never on the scale of what the Israelis are doing with 20,000 in less than 3 months. The Israelis are more like the Nazis who destroyed Lidice in reprisal for the assassination of Heydrich. Crossmaglen was never razed.
https://youtu.be/w2aCVpOCGFI&t=1620
Isreal is almost unique in having US support for doing this. The US would not have supported razing Crossmaglen.
I wouldn't bet on that. You need to start from the point that yanks are solely interested in themselves, have no morals and will do anything to anyone to get what they want. On the whole they are no friends of Ireland. I'd say Crossmaglen is lucky there is no oil in those hills.
Ireland got the Gaza treatment from Cromwell and after 1798 wwhen Croppies and sympathetic Protestants like Watty Graham were subject to mass executions. But during the 70s even though a lot of people died it never reached the level of Gaza. The people in Gaza have been completely dehumanised by Israel and revenge is driving the killing.
Quote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 05:00:04 PMI wouldn't bet on that. You need to start from the point that yanks are solely interested in themselves, have no morals and will do anything to anyone to get what they want. On the whole they are no friends of Ireland. I'd say Crossmaglen is lucky there is no oil in those hills.
Everyone is mostly interested in themselves. But Ireland contributed to the US and that provides a measure of interest in return. The US did a lot of good in the GFA, for instance.
As for Crossmaglen, it may lack natural resources but did have some oil processing.
Yeh after over 200 years of doing f**k all to help us. We have to re-look at our relationship with America. I'd rather be poor than support a country that facilitates Genocide
Quote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 07:19:07 PMYeh after over 200 years of doing f**k all to help us. We have to re-look at our relationship with America. I'd rather be poor than support a country that facilitates Genocide
I don't think we support the US, I think they'd do just fine without us
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 07:28:14 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 07:19:07 PMYeh after over 200 years of doing f**k all to help us. We have to re-look at our relationship with America. I'd rather be poor than support a country that facilitates Genocide
I don't think we support the US, I think they'd do just fine without us
We will send half our politicians over to celebrate St Patrick's Day with them. I call that "support" call it whatever you want yourself. You'll do well to find an Irish politician criticise America.
Quote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 08:07:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 07:28:14 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 07:19:07 PMYeh after over 200 years of doing f**k all to help us. We have to re-look at our relationship with America. I'd rather be poor than support a country that facilitates Genocide
I don't think we support the US, I think they'd do just fine without us
We will send half our politicians over to celebrate St Patrick's Day with them. I call that "support" call it whatever you want yourself. You'll do well to find an Irish politician criticise America.
It's a token tip of the hat to the Irish 'population'
If you think it's anything else then you are confused, we couldn't support the US in anything!
If the Irish politicians did blockade anything American because of its stance with Israel they'd simply move their shit out.
You are already supporting them by being a SF'er, they'll not be cutting off the hand that feeds them, politicians are a lot of things, but if there's money or trips to the states they'll take them.
You should start boycotting anything from the states.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 08:17:18 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 08:07:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 07:28:14 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 07:19:07 PMYeh after over 200 years of doing f**k all to help us. We have to re-look at our relationship with America. I'd rather be poor than support a country that facilitates Genocide
I don't think we support the US, I think they'd do just fine without us
We will send half our politicians over to celebrate St Patrick's Day with them. I call that "support" call it whatever you want yourself. You'll do well to find an Irish politician criticise America.
It's a token tip of the hat to the Irish 'population'
If you think it's anything else then you are confused, we couldn't support the US in anything!
If the Irish politicians did blockade anything American because of its stance with Israel they'd simply move their shit out.
You are already supporting them by being a SF'er, they'll not be cutting off the hand that feeds them, politicians are a lot of things, but if there's money or trips to the states they'll take them.
You should start boycotting anything from the states.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 08:17:18 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 08:07:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 07:28:14 PMQuote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 07:19:07 PMYeh after over 200 years of doing f**k all to help us. We have to re-look at our relationship with America. I'd rather be poor than support a country that facilitates Genocide
I don't think we support the US, I think they'd do just fine without us
We will send half our politicians over to celebrate St Patrick's Day with them. I call that "support" call it whatever you want yourself. You'll do well to find an Irish politician criticise America.
It's a token tip of the hat to the Irish 'population'
If you think it's anything else then you are confused, we couldn't support the US in anything!
If the Irish politicians did blockade anything American because of its stance with Israel they'd simply move their shit out.
You are already supporting them by being a SF'er, they'll not be cutting off the hand that feeds them, politicians are a lot of things, but if there's money or trips to the states they'll take them.
You should start boycotting anything from the states.
If your neighbour is a murderer and you keep popping in for tea and never bring it up then you are condoning murder in my book.
You decided I'm a SF'er and yes I would tend to vote that way but I recently met my SF TD and I told him my vote will be going elsewhere if they did not support expelling the Israeli ambassador. Going over and being the nice neighbour popping in to see Biden will mean my vote will also go elsewhere. Thats very likely to happen.
You are either against genocide or you are condoning it in my opinion.
You can say what's happening in Gaza is genocide . You can also say what happened leading up to it was wrong, you can also say that racial hate attacks in the UK is also wrong.
What political groups won't go to the States?
What American goods will you stop using?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 10:02:54 PMYou can say what's happening in Gaza is genocide . You can also say what happened leading up to it was wrong, you can also say that racial hate attacks in the UK is also wrong.
What political groups won't go to the States?
What American goods will you stop using?
Sorry I've no idea what point you're trying to make.
Quote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 10:06:15 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 10:02:54 PMYou can say what's happening in Gaza is genocide . You can also say what happened leading up to it was wrong, you can also say that racial hate attacks in the UK is also wrong.
What political groups won't go to the States?
What American goods will you stop using?
Sorry I've no idea what point you're trying to make.
That would be your main contribution to this thread
Thanks.
I've yet to determine what yours is.
Even the New York Times is printing the evidence of what is undoubtedly genocide...
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1738347980032295218?t=DLvY3_22e80a_gfI4NJcQw&s=19
Who's is saying it's not?
This is how Israel targets "terrorists"
https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1739713435653304718?t=2cj0ECWp_ZXu1QLulzxGWw&s=19
Quote from: Itchy on December 27, 2023, 10:20:03 PMEven the New York Times is printing the evidence of what is undoubtedly genocide...
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1738347980032295218?t=DLvY3_22e80a_gfI4NJcQw&s=19
Here is a link to the NYT article, there is an 8 minute video worth watching https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/21/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-bomb-investigation.html?unlocked_article_code=1.JE0.Hnaa.j43L44hmHTDR&smid=url-share
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 10:21:53 PMWho's is saying it's not?
Western government's (including the oppositions) and most MSM. All under control of dark forces.
Quote from: theskull1 on December 28, 2023, 12:37:56 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2023, 10:21:53 PMWho's is saying it's not?
Western government's (including the oppositions) and most MSM. All under control of dark forces.
I'm talking on here. One person I think has..
Western governments have their own agendas, they'll generally tow the line with the US but certainly a lot of governments are calling for peace
Listen to this, imagine if he was wearing a swastika
https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1740229918896923052?t=1a8uGH3Hlaee-6g3KKl96A&s=19
More testimony from what's happening in Gaza from a UN worker
https://twitter.com/Betelgeuse100/status/1739362316225851472?t=2qyQWaxj3gtrXSIVCHiH3A&s=19
Zionist Nazi cnuts now lying about making mistake on Xmas Eve by bombing refugee camp and murdering hundreds of civilians (that's women and children, folks), even though they have been doing nothing else since October 7 and before. Obvious they are losing propaganda war despite millions they have spent cultivating useless idiots in so called left wing circles throughout world and are now starting to panic. They have also lost huge amount of troops to the Palestinian resistance in Gaza, but refuse to acknowledge until weeks later as part of their lies, traumatising the families of these IDF 'heroes'. They're being bled white in their genocide campaign, and the truth is gradually emerging, the f**king scum. Netanyahu is a madman, desperately using the situation to cling onto power in face of internal criminal proceedings. The West needs to rediscover its moral compass and wise the f**k up.
Hamas is fighting as a guerilla force in the rubble.
https://twitter.com/AryJeay/status/1740055052709196033
After 3 months it is not clear whomis winning. It is not Israel so far.
Turning into the arpartheid state's Stalingrad. Even the Gestapo warned Hitler despite the Nazis' total control, the German public were getting seriously upset at the regime over the losses. Deju f**king vu you Zionist murdering bastards.
This really hits the right note.
Guernica was carpet bombed by the Nazis and Italian fascists at Franco's request in 1937.
Picasso painted a famous picture about Guernica
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guernica_(Picasso)
https://twitter.com/SyedaAsmatNaqvi/status/1740422148072845338
Torture
https://twitter.com/TheGrayzoneNews/status/1740259110371926344
South Africa have filed a case of genocide against Israel in the "international criminal court". Wonder what will come of that. Fair play to them.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2023, 07:56:03 PMSouth Africa have filed a case of genocide against Israel in the "international criminal court". Wonder what will come of that. Fair play to them.
Not sure how it works but no doubt Yanks will try to scupper it.
Quote from: Itchy on December 29, 2023, 08:47:28 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2023, 07:56:03 PMSouth Africa have filed a case of genocide against Israel in the "international criminal court". Wonder what will come of that. Fair play to them.
Not sure how it works but no doubt Yanks will try to scupper it.
Fair play to South Africa, at least one country had the balls to do it. But as you say, the Yanks will scupper it and let's all stand idly by whilst Israel commits genocide in 2023/24. It really is incredulous how impotent the global community are that this is allowed to happen. Whilst protests at football matches and in town centres across Ireland are done for the right reason, they have absolutely no impact on what happens. This needs sorted at government level, the rest of us are powerless. The US are not going to do anything to stop it, they've had their chance ... maybe the likes of China should stand up and say enough is enough and claim their spot as the global policeman, and let the yanks do as they wish. I've no respect for Biden and his administration, it's long gone.
They're also funding it which is worse >:(
Would any other administration in the US have done differently than Biden's?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2023, 10:08:28 AMWould any other administration in the US have done differently than Biden's?
No.
Newsflash for Yanks. The USA is not a democracy.
Israel now is going the way of Rwanda
https://twitter.com/SocialRightsIRL/status/1741051999859163479
The 21st Century's "master race"
Quote from: Itchy on December 30, 2023, 10:23:31 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2023, 10:08:28 AMWould any other administration in the US have done differently than Biden's?
No.
Newsflash for Yanks. The USA is not a democracy.
Nowhere is a democracy.
I still maintain this genocide is all about Israel and their cronies wanting the abundant gas reserves in Gaza.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2023, 10:08:28 AMWould any other administration in the US have done differently than Biden's?
Yes.
A Trump or any GOP administration would be even worse for the Palestinians.
Quote from: J70 on December 30, 2023, 04:42:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2023, 10:08:28 AMWould any other administration in the US have done differently than Biden's?
Yes.
A Trump or any GOP administration would be even worse for the Palestinians.
How can it get any worse?
It's hell on earth.
The Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2023, 10:08:28 AMWould any other administration in the US have done differently than Biden's?
Eisenhower forced Israel out of Sinai in 1956. Carter and Bush senior forced Israel to negotiate.
Parallels with the Irish famine
https://twitter.com/DmodosCutter/status/1741146715737006319
A mother picks up grass to feed her children in the besieged north of Gaza where there is no water, food or medical care.
Quote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
Haha. What good has Biden's sympathy done for Palestinians. America is a dictatorship. Two old white men fight it out each year, both in the pockets of big business and powerful lobby groups so no matter who wins it's pretty much the same outcome. Two bald men fighting over a comb.
Funny as it sounds, when Hollywood is turning against Israel you know they are fucked.
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1740976454806945917?t=yRxl71jRe4N0rPw4ARgbaQ&s=19
Quote from: Itchy on December 30, 2023, 11:08:35 PMFunny as it sounds, when Hollywood is turning against Israel you know they are fucked.
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1740976454806945917?t=yRxl71jRe4N0rPw4ARgbaQ&s=19
Oliver Stone is really decent
Thank God we have Michael D Higgins
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/not-morally-acceptable-to-be-indifferent-to-gaza-suffering-president-michael-d-higgins-in-new-years-eve-statement/a2019928619.html
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1741685704130756698
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oucjZ7kkwKs
Quote from: Itchy on December 30, 2023, 08:40:39 PMQuote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
Haha. What good has Biden's sympathy done for Palestinians. America is a dictatorship. Two old white men fight it out each year, both in the pockets of big business and powerful lobby groups so no matter who wins it's pretty much the same outcome. Two bald men fighting over a comb.
There is no-one in US politics more rabidly Zionist than Biden.
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 02, 2024, 10:13:41 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 30, 2023, 08:40:39 PMQuote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
Haha. What good has Biden's sympathy done for Palestinians. America is a dictatorship. Two old white men fight it out each year, both in the pockets of big business and powerful lobby groups so no matter who wins it's pretty much the same outcome. Two bald men fighting over a comb.
There is no-one in US politics more rabidly Zionist than Biden.
Anthony Blinken evidently is, but he couldn't have done what he did without Bidens approval.
When it comes to the crunch the Zionists will support Israel no matter what.
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 02, 2024, 10:13:41 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 30, 2023, 08:40:39 PMQuote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
Haha. What good has Biden's sympathy done for Palestinians. America is a dictatorship. Two old white men fight it out each year, both in the pockets of big business and powerful lobby groups so no matter who wins it's pretty much the same outcome. Two bald men fighting over a comb.
There is no-one in US politics more rabidly Zionist than Biden.
Haley, Trump, Cruz
Meanwhile
DraperRobert
My grandfather prosecuted Dachau war criminals. Later he wrote a book called "After Fifteen Years." Its premise was that Nazism can happen anywhere, once good people start believing lies while not believing that those who are different from them are human beings
Quote from: Keyser soze on January 02, 2024, 10:13:41 AMQuote from: Itchy on December 30, 2023, 08:40:39 PMQuote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
Haha. What good has Biden's sympathy done for Palestinians. America is a dictatorship. Two old white men fight it out each year, both in the pockets of big business and powerful lobby groups so no matter who wins it's pretty much the same outcome. Two bald men fighting over a comb.
There is no-one in US politics more rabidly Zionist than Biden.
Irelands metal will be tested the next time that butcher intends to visit here. Will mayo welcome him with open arms after his contributions to the worst slaughter of this century.
Quote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
It could end up costing Biden the election as there are a lot of disaffected Democrats who say they will stay home over this issue.
Whether saner heads will prevail when they see the alternative (and HIS and his party's attitude towards the Palestinians if they are single issue voters) remains to be seen.
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2024, 01:15:04 PMQuote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
It could end up costing Biden the election as there are a lot of disaffected Democrats who say they will stay home over this issue.
Whether saner heads will prevail when they see the alternative (and HIS and his party's attitude towards the Palestinians if they are single issue voters) remains to be seen.
I love the way you think the alternative is worse. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. All in the pockets of same big business and same big lobby groups. Biden v Trump doesn't make a bit of difference, a pair of horrible wankers
Quote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 03:03:52 PMQuote from: J70 on January 02, 2024, 01:15:04 PMQuote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
It could end up costing Biden the election as there are a lot of disaffected Democrats who say they will stay home over this issue.
Whether saner heads will prevail when they see the alternative (and HIS and his party's attitude towards the Palestinians if they are single issue voters) remains to be seen.
I love the way you think the alternative is worse. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. All in the pockets of same big business and same big lobby groups. Biden v Trump doesn't make a bit of difference, a pair of horrible wankers
Itchy, that is nonsense.
If you want to make the case that Biden is in the wrong on what Israel is doing, you've plenty to support that.
But calling him (or most other politicians) the same as Trump overall is just pure clueless.
But sure go ahead and stick it on the US politics thread if you want to make that argument.
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2024, 03:17:37 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 03:03:52 PMQuote from: J70 on January 02, 2024, 01:15:04 PMQuote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
It could end up costing Biden the election as there are a lot of disaffected Democrats who say they will stay home over this issue.
Whether saner heads will prevail when they see the alternative (and HIS and his party's attitude towards the Palestinians if they are single issue voters) remains to be seen.
I love the way you think the alternative is worse. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. All in the pockets of same big business and same big lobby groups. Biden v Trump doesn't make a bit of difference, a pair of horrible wankers
Itchy, that is nonsense.
If you want to make the case that Biden is in the wrong on what Israel is doing, you've plenty to support that.
But calling him (or most other politicians) the same as Trump overall is just pure clueless.
But sure go ahead and stick it on the US politics thread if you want to make that argument.
Listen we had 100 years here of people convincing themselves that FF and FG were different to each other. If you think the USA is a democracy when both candidates are owned by the same people, well good for you.
Quote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 03:29:59 PMQuote from: J70 on January 02, 2024, 03:17:37 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 03:03:52 PMQuote from: J70 on January 02, 2024, 01:15:04 PMQuote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
It could end up costing Biden the election as there are a lot of disaffected Democrats who say they will stay home over this issue.
Whether saner heads will prevail when they see the alternative (and HIS and his party's attitude towards the Palestinians if they are single issue voters) remains to be seen.
I love the way you think the alternative is worse. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. All in the pockets of same big business and same big lobby groups. Biden v Trump doesn't make a bit of difference, a pair of horrible wankers
Itchy, that is nonsense.
If you want to make the case that Biden is in the wrong on what Israel is doing, you've plenty to support that.
But calling him (or most other politicians) the same as Trump overall is just pure clueless.
But sure go ahead and stick it on the US politics thread if you want to make that argument.
Listen we had 100 years here of people convincing themselves that FF and FG were different to each other. If you think the USA is a democracy when both candidates are owned by the same people, well good for you.
I live in the US, I follow politics closely, I see and hear Trump's corrosive policies, rhetoric and influence (which are way out of what was the political norm) daily. If you want to discuss it, bring it to the US politics thread. I don't want to derail this one.
Quote from: J70 on January 02, 2024, 03:46:10 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 03:29:59 PMQuote from: J70 on January 02, 2024, 03:17:37 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 03:03:52 PMQuote from: J70 on January 02, 2024, 01:15:04 PMQuote from: whitey on December 30, 2023, 05:30:14 PMThe Democrats have a sizable pro Palestinian caucus-whereas the Republicans wouldn't.
The Republican base and Trump supporters in particular would be very pro Israeli and wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians
It could end up costing Biden the election as there are a lot of disaffected Democrats who say they will stay home over this issue.
Whether saner heads will prevail when they see the alternative (and HIS and his party's attitude towards the Palestinians if they are single issue voters) remains to be seen.
I love the way you think the alternative is worse. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. All in the pockets of same big business and same big lobby groups. Biden v Trump doesn't make a bit of difference, a pair of horrible wankers
Itchy, that is nonsense.
If you want to make the case that Biden is in the wrong on what Israel is doing, you've plenty to support that.
But calling him (or most other politicians) the same as Trump overall is just pure clueless.
But sure go ahead and stick it on the US politics thread if you want to make that argument.
Listen we had 100 years here of people convincing themselves that FF and FG were different to each other. If you think the USA is a democracy when both candidates are owned by the same people, well good for you.
I live in the US, I follow politics closely, I see and hear Trump's corrosive policies, rhetoric and influence (which are way out of what was the political norm) daily. If you want to discuss it, bring it to the US politics thread. I don't want to derail this one.
Thousands of dead Palestinian children can't tell the difference between Trump and Biden.
2.3m people displaced from their homes
Gaza flattened into rubble
23k civilians dead
9k children dead
1k children with amputations, most with no Anesthetic
Biden hugs Nethanyahu, refers to him being on his team
Biden refuses to call for a ceasefire
Biden vetos all efforts at holding Israel to account at UN
How exactly will Trump be worse? The two of them are the vilest pieces of shit I can imagine.
Quote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 04:37:54 PM2.3m people displaced from their homes
Gaza flattened into rubble
23k civilians dead
9k children dead
1k children with amputations, most with no Anesthetic
Biden hugs Nethanyahu, refers to him being on his team
Biden refuses to call for a ceasefire
Biden vetos all efforts at holding Israel to account at UN
How exactly will Trump be worse? The two of them are the vilest pieces of shit I can imagine.
You know that Trump essentially tried to ban Muslims from entering the United States the day after he was sworn in?
If you don't think Trump would be worse for the Palestinians, all I can say is believe whatever you want
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 04:53:57 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 04:37:54 PM2.3m people displaced from their homes
Gaza flattened into rubble
23k civilians dead
9k children dead
1k children with amputations, most with no Anesthetic
Biden hugs Nethanyahu, refers to him being on his team
Biden refuses to call for a ceasefire
Biden vetos all efforts at holding Israel to account at UN
How exactly will Trump be worse? The two of them are the vilest pieces of shit I can imagine.
You know that Trump essentially tried to ban Muslims from entering the United States the day after he was sworn in?
If you don't think Trump would be worse for the Palestinians, all I can say is believe whatever you want
Tell me what he'll do that's worse than above?
Trump's a sc**bag, so is Genocide Joe
Quote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:00:42 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 04:53:57 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 04:37:54 PM2.3m people displaced from their homes
Gaza flattened into rubble
23k civilians dead
9k children dead
1k children with amputations, most with no Anesthetic
Biden hugs Nethanyahu, refers to him being on his team
Biden refuses to call for a ceasefire
Biden vetos all efforts at holding Israel to account at UN
How exactly will Trump be worse? The two of them are the vilest pieces of shit I can imagine.
You know that Trump essentially tried to ban Muslims from entering the United States the day after he was sworn in?
If you don't think Trump would be worse for the Palestinians, all I can say is believe whatever you want
Tell me what he'll do that's worse than above?
Trump's a sc**bag, so is Genocide Joe
Ehhhh..........plenty
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna120846
Open your eyes lad "refugee" is code for ethnic cleansing. Nethanyahu wants the population to be "refugees" so he can plant Gaza with Jews.
Trump is actually doing the Gazans a favour here although he's so stupid he probably doesn't realise it.
Quote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:24:15 PMOpen your eyes lad "refugee" is code for ethnic cleansing. Nethanyahu wants the population to be "refugees" so he can plant Gaza with Jews.
Trump is actually doing the Gazans a favour here although he's so stupid he probably doesn't realise it.
So if the United States (under Trump) refused to accept "refugees" from Gaza he is doing them a favor...makes all the sense in the world, now that you've explained it
I wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Quote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Biden and Trump are both neoliberal and both Zionist. Biden is less extreme than Trump and he makes some changes but not enough.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
So Trump refusing to accept Gazan refugees would be a factor in Israel deciding whether or not to ethnic cleanse the Gaza Strip?
All of his other completely lopsided current and past policies and pronouncements with respect to this conflict are irrelevant? Israel wouldn't expect Trump's rubber stamp in that matter like in all others, including his ending of official US opposition to the West Bank land thefts and his moving of the embassy from Tel Aviv and official recognition of Jerusalem as the Israeli capital?
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Haven't a clue what he's talking about
Makes zero sense to me
Hypothetically speaking, if 100,000 Palestinians (women, children and the sick and elderly) were allowed to leave Gaza and given refugee status in the United States by Biden, how does Trump refusing them entry help them?
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:22:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Haven't a clue what he's talking about
Makes zero sense to me
Hypothetically speaking, if 100,000 Palestinians (women, children and the sick and elderly) were allowed to leave Gaza and given refugee status in the United States by Biden, how does Trump refusing them entry help them?
There's a better way, stop enabling the slaughter of them by giving weapons and support to Israel then you won't need to offer them refugee status in the USA. These people want to stay in their homeland, not be shipped to yankland.
Do you realise how stupid it sounds to offer refugee status to a people you are facilitating the murder of? Hence my analogy with Native Americans which seems to go right over your head.
Quote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 06:56:37 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:22:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Haven't a clue what he's talking about
Makes zero sense to me
Hypothetically speaking, if 100,000 Palestinians (women, children and the sick and elderly) were allowed to leave Gaza and given refugee status in the United States by Biden, how does Trump refusing them entry help them?
There's a better way, stop enabling the slaughter of them by giving weapons and support to Israel then you won't need to offer them refugee status in the USA. These people want to stay in their homeland, not be shipped to yankland.
Do you realise how stupid it sounds to offer refugee status to a people you are facilitating the murder of? Hence my analogy with Native Americans which seems to go right over your head.
So you can't explain why he's doing them a favor by banning them.....fair enough
Quote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 07:12:56 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 06:56:37 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:22:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Haven't a clue what he's talking about
Makes zero sense to me
Hypothetically speaking, if 100,000 Palestinians (women, children and the sick and elderly) were allowed to leave Gaza and given refugee status in the United States by Biden, how does Trump refusing them entry help them?
There's a better way, stop enabling the slaughter of them by giving weapons and support to Israel then you won't need to offer them refugee status in the USA. These people want to stay in their homeland, not be shipped to yankland.
Do you realise how stupid it sounds to offer refugee status to a people you are facilitating the murder of? Hence my analogy with Native Americans which seems to go right over your head.
So you can't explain why he's doing them a favor by banning them.....fair enough
No I can't explain it....to you, that's mission impossible.
Quote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 06:56:37 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:22:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Haven't a clue what he's talking about
Makes zero sense to me
Hypothetically speaking, if 100,000 Palestinians (women, children and the sick and elderly) were allowed to leave Gaza and given refugee status in the United States by Biden, how does Trump refusing them entry help them?
There's a better way, stop enabling the slaughter of them by giving weapons and support to Israel then you won't need to offer them refugee status in the USA. These people want to stay in their homeland, not be shipped to yankland.
Do you realise how stupid it sounds to offer refugee status to a people you are facilitating the murder of? Hence my analogy with Native Americans which seems to go right over your head.
I think I finally figured it out
So what you're actually saying is that if granted permission, Palestinians would stay in Gaza rather than take refuge in the United States.........because they blame the US (not Hamas) for their current predicament
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2024, 12:31:40 AMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 06:56:37 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:22:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Haven't a clue what he's talking about
Makes zero sense to me
Hypothetically speaking, if 100,000 Palestinians (women, children and the sick and elderly) were allowed to leave Gaza and given refugee status in the United States by Biden, how does Trump refusing them entry help them?
There's a better way, stop enabling the slaughter of them by giving weapons and support to Israel then you won't need to offer them refugee status in the USA. These people want to stay in their homeland, not be shipped to yankland.
Do you realise how stupid it sounds to offer refugee status to a people you are facilitating the murder of? Hence my analogy with Native Americans which seems to go right over your head.
I think I finally figured it out
So what you're actually saying is that if granted permission, Palestinians would stay in Gaza rather than take refuge in the United States.........because they blame the US (not Hamas) for their current predicament
Never had you down as simple...
Read the native American comparison Itchy used...
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 03, 2024, 12:35:24 AMQuote from: whitey on January 03, 2024, 12:31:40 AMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 06:56:37 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:22:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Haven't a clue what he's talking about
Makes zero sense to me
Hypothetically speaking, if 100,000 Palestinians (women, children and the sick and elderly) were allowed to leave Gaza and given refugee status in the United States by Biden, how does Trump refusing them entry help them?
There's a better way, stop enabling the slaughter of them by giving weapons and support to Israel then you won't need to offer them refugee status in the USA. These people want to stay in their homeland, not be shipped to yankland.
Do you realise how stupid it sounds to offer refugee status to a people you are facilitating the murder of? Hence my analogy with Native Americans which seems to go right over your head.
I think I finally figured it out
So what you're actually saying is that if granted permission, Palestinians would stay in Gaza rather than take refuge in the United States.........because they blame the US (not Hamas) for their current predicament
Never had you down as simple...
Read the native American comparison Itchy used...
That comparison he made makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
First of all, I would say that at this stage the majority of Americans are actually on the side of the Palestinians
Secondly, theres a sizable and vocal Muslim population in the States who would welcome these "refugees" with open arms
https://news.gallup.com/poll/545045/americans-back-israel-military-action-gaza.aspx
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2024, 12:31:40 AMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 06:56:37 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:22:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Haven't a clue what he's talking about
Makes zero sense to me
Hypothetically speaking, if 100,000 Palestinians (women, children and the sick and elderly) were allowed to leave Gaza and given refugee status in the United States by Biden, how does Trump refusing them entry help them?
There's a better way, stop enabling the slaughter of them by giving weapons and support to Israel then you won't need to offer them refugee status in the USA. These people want to stay in their homeland, not be shipped to yankland.
Do you realise how stupid it sounds to offer refugee status to a people you are facilitating the murder of? Hence my analogy with Native Americans which seems to go right over your head.
I think I finally figured it out
So what you're actually saying is that if granted permission, Palestinians would stay in Gaza rather than take refuge in the United States.........because they blame the US (not Hamas) for their current predicament
The "current" predicament the Gazans and Palestinians are in now predates Hamas and Oct 7th.
The treatment and living conditions Israel has imposed on Gaza and the West Bank are inhumane and has been for decades, Oct 7th was a reaction to that.
Interesting reading the "inputs" of a certain Tony Blair in this at the minute, another utter Zionist supporting cúnt speaking out both sides of his mouth.
The oul "It's all Khamas' fault" is the Israeli (and their useful eejits) propaganda position.
9,000 murdered children.... not our fault for dropping bombs on apartment blocks....all "Khamas" fault...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67866342
Not sure a guilty verdict would have any real effect, but good to see someone in the international community calling it out for what it is.
Quote from: whitey on January 03, 2024, 12:52:17 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 03, 2024, 12:35:24 AMQuote from: whitey on January 03, 2024, 12:31:40 AMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 06:56:37 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:22:31 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 02, 2024, 06:14:41 PMQuote from: whitey on January 02, 2024, 06:01:48 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 02, 2024, 05:40:16 PMI wouldn't expect it to make sense to you. It would be like Spain/Portugal agreeing to accept Native American refugees when the first settlers went to America and slaughtered them and stole their land.
Explain it to me in layman's terms how it is to the Palestinians benefit if Trump "enforced a ban on immigrants from certain countries, and for the first time, he included Gaza."
Even a simpleton could see his reasoning there I'd have thought. You can agree or disagree with it but surely you can see the point he's making.
Haven't a clue what he's talking about
Makes zero sense to me
Hypothetically speaking, if 100,000 Palestinians (women, children and the sick and elderly) were allowed to leave Gaza and given refugee status in the United States by Biden, how does Trump refusing them entry help them?
There's a better way, stop enabling the slaughter of them by giving weapons and support to Israel then you won't need to offer them refugee status in the USA. These people want to stay in their homeland, not be shipped to yankland.
Do you realise how stupid it sounds to offer refugee status to a people you are facilitating the murder of? Hence my analogy with Native Americans which seems to go right over your head.
I think I finally figured it out
So what you're actually saying is that if granted permission, Palestinians would stay in Gaza rather than take refuge in the United States.........because they blame the US (not Hamas) for their current predicament
Never had you down as simple...
Read the native American comparison Itchy used...
That comparison he made makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
First of all, I would say that at this stage the majority of Americans are actually on the side of the Palestinians
Secondly, theres a sizable and vocal Muslim population in the States who would welcome these "refugees" with open arms
https://news.gallup.com/poll/545045/americans-back-israel-military-action-gaza.aspx
In 1649 Cromwell invaded Ireland. He slaughtered all around him. He said it was in revenge for the uprising in Ulster in 1641 (the uprising was in reaction to Irish natives being treated as 2nd class in their own country, being subjected to harsh laws and the enforcing of protestantism in Ireland)
Cromwell did some Ethnic Cleansing himself, his call was to send the Ulster irish Families to "hell or to connacht". That's why today you will see many Ulster originated surnames in Connacht in large numbers when many of those names are rare in Ulster.
Do you see the similarities?
Ulster is Gaza
The Catholic Irish are the Gazans
Cromwell/Britain is the Israelis
Imagine now the solution to this issue was for England to permit 100k Irish Families to come to live in England as Refugees. Would you consider that to be a noble offer in this context? The same England who are sponsoring the slaughter and the inhumane conditions in the first place!
Complete and utter codswallop
An accurate recreation of your scenario would actually have seen the majority of English people siding with the Irish and opposing Cromwell
There would also have been a large and influential Irish electorate in England, who in conjunction with like
Minded English people would have been able to defeat Cromwell in the upcoming election
What are you smoking and where do I get some 😂
Jonathan Cook
@Jonathan_K_Cook
Israel's attack on Gaza provokes revulsion from so many because it seems impossible to rationalise it. It feels like a reversion. It lays bare something primitive and ugly about the West's behaviour that has been obscured for more than 70 years by a veneer of "progress", by talk about the primacy of human rights, by the development of international institutions, by the rules of war, by claims of humanitarianism. Yes, these claims were invariably bogus. Vietnam, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Ukraine were all sold based on lies. The true goal of the US, and its Nato sidekicks, was plundering the resources of others, maintaining Washington as the global top dog, and enriching a western elite.
But importantly, the deception was sustained by an overarching narrative that dragged along many westerners in its wake. Wars were to counter the threat of Soviet communism, or Islamic "terror", or a renewed Russian imperialism. And as a positive corollary, these wars claimed to be liberating oppressed women, protecting human rights, and fostering democracy. None of that narrative overlay works this time. There is nothing humanitarian about bombing trapped civilians in Gaza, turning their tiny prison enclave into rubble, reminiscent of earthquake disaster zones but this time an entirely man-made catastrophe. Even Israel does not have the gall to claim to be liberating the women and girls of Gaza from Hamas as it kills and starves them. Nor does it pretend to be interested in democracy promotion. Rather, Gaza is full of "human animals" and must be "flattened". And it has been all but impossible to make Hamas, a group of a few thousand fighters penned into Gaza, appear a credible threat to the West's way of life. Hamas cannot send any kind of warhead into Europe, let alone in 45 minutes. Their prison camp, even before its destruction, was never the plausible heart of some Islamist empire ready to overrun the West and subject it to "sharia law". In fact, it has been barely feasible to refer to these past weeks as a war. Gaza is not a state, it has no army. It has been under occupation for decades and under siege for 16 years – a blockade in which Israel has counted the calories allowed in to maintain low-level malnutrition among Palestinians. As the American Jewish scholar Norman Finkelstein has noted, Hamas' breakout on 7 October is better understood not as a war but as a slave revolt. And like slave rebellions throughout history – from Spartacus' against the Romans to Nat Turner's in Virginia in 1831 – it was inevitably going to turn brutal and bloody. Are we on the side of the murderous prison guards? Are we arming the plantation owners?
They link below gives an outline of what South Africa have submitted regarding accusations of Genocide against Israel
This has now been supported by Malaysia and Turkey.
https://twitter.com/hanoooonz/status/1742557051664937433?t=Jfo5YHPg9ElJ_UdemjZ3tg&s=19
Maybe Varadkar and Martin will grow a spine and do the same but doubtful.
Looks like the Netanyahu junta is trying to start a war with Hezbollah and Iran, presumably to cover their lack of military success v Hamas?
Pulling soldiers out of Gaza and going back to cowardly bombing of buildings full of civilians suggests fighting Hamas was too difficult for them.
Very interesting that the 2 countries- both ex British Empire ( one not completely) both the subject of rancid ethnocracy- that will not cash Israel's cheques are South Africa and Ireland. The Croppies and Watty would be proud of us.
While its great that countries are 'taking a stand' over Israel's deplorable attacks, genocide and displacement, current South Africa is one country that is a total basket case, and giving advice (while welcomed) would be looked at with a wry smile from the international communities
https://twitter.com/hanoooonz/status/1742557051664937433
Comments by Tánaiste Martin in the last 24 hours:
- there is an urgent need for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza
- there should be an unconditional release of all hostages
- there needs to be urgent safe and unhindered humanitarian access into the enclave
- long-term peace in the region can only be achieved through a commitment to a two-state solution
- recent comments by Israeli government ministers calling for the resettlement of Palestinians outside of Gaza are utterly unacceptable and inflammatory
- Gaza is Palestinian land and is an integral part of a future state of Palestine
Extremists on both sides won't be happy and Benjamin may even give us another shoutout, but good to see our government being more outspoken than most in the EU. 'Utterly unacceptable' is strong words and we are pushing in the background for a stronger EU stance, which has been extremely weak to date. The fear of saying something that might be re-cast as being anti-Semitic is a weapon Israel use to great effect.
Who are the extremists on both sides you refer too?
Quote from: Hound on January 06, 2024, 09:51:26 AMComments by Tánaiste Martin in the last 24 hours:
- there is an urgent need for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza
- there should be an unconditional release of all hostages
- there needs to be urgent safe and unhindered humanitarian access into the enclave
- long-term peace in the region can only be achieved through a commitment to a two-state solution
- recent comments by Israeli government ministers calling for the resettlement of Palestinians outside of Gaza are utterly unacceptable and inflammatory
- Gaza is Palestinian land and is an integral part of a future state of Palestine
Extremists on both sides won't be happy and Benjamin may even give us another shoutout, but good to see our government being more outspoken than most in the EU. 'Utterly unacceptable' is strong words and we are pushing in the background for a stronger EU stance, which has been extremely weak to date. The fear of saying something that might be re-cast as being anti-Semitic is a weapon Israel use to great effect.
20k deaths too late. That's pathetic. Martin is famous as a fence sitter, he waits to see what way the wind blows and then he jumps in. The man is a weakling with no principles. I actually have more time for Varadkar than him. Nothing he has said has ever impressed me.
Of course he could publically back South Africa's referral to the ICC then I would be impressed, but of course he hasn't the balls to do that.
War Criminal Netanyahu and his thug Government won't pass any heed of what our leaders say.
Palestinians to Rwanda? Thoughts
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 06, 2024, 12:24:56 PMPalestinians to Rwanda? Thoughts
Ethic cleansing... nakba 2.
Quote from: Itchy on January 06, 2024, 10:47:40 AMQuote from: Hound on January 06, 2024, 09:51:26 AMComments by Tánaiste Martin in the last 24 hours:
- there is an urgent need for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza
- there should be an unconditional release of all hostages
- there needs to be urgent safe and unhindered humanitarian access into the enclave
- long-term peace in the region can only be achieved through a commitment to a two-state solution
- recent comments by Israeli government ministers calling for the resettlement of Palestinians outside of Gaza are utterly unacceptable and inflammatory
- Gaza is Palestinian land and is an integral part of a future state of Palestine
Extremists on both sides won't be happy and Benjamin may even give us another shoutout, but good to see our government being more outspoken than most in the EU. 'Utterly unacceptable' is strong words and we are pushing in the background for a stronger EU stance, which has been extremely weak to date. The fear of saying something that might be re-cast as being anti-Semitic is a weapon Israel use to great effect.
20k deaths too late. That's pathetic. Martin is famous as a fence sitter, he waits to see what way the wind blows and then he jumps in. The man is a weakling with no principles. I actually have more time for Varadkar than him. Nothing he has said has ever impressed me.
Of course he could publically back South Africa's referral to the ICC then I would be impressed, but of course he hasn't the balls to do that.
+1
One of the most deplorable things was Martin visiting the kabutz with Israel officials and refusing to condemn the bombing.
He's our Ritchie Sunak in respect of " couldn't care less what my electorate thinks". One thing about this whole sorry mess including oct the 7th is that political systems now protect these leaches when they reach office from the very people that put them there.
Quote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2024, 11:57:17 AMWar Criminal Netanyahu and his thug Government won't pass any heed of what our leaders say.
Well that's for sure. But Israel consider Ireland the least sympathetic to their cause in the EU, and Varadker, Martin and Michael D are ensuring that continues.
Quote from: Hound on January 06, 2024, 01:36:05 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2024, 11:57:17 AMWar Criminal Netanyahu and his thug Government won't pass any heed of what our leaders say.
Well that's for sure. But Israel consider Ireland the least sympathetic to their cause in the EU, and Varadker, Martin and Michael D are ensuring that continues.
If you travel around Ireland and look at buildings from the Middle Ages many are in ruins, having been destroyed by the English. Very similar to what the Israelis do now in Gaza.
Sociopaths.
This place always shocks me when I see it
https://mayo.me/2015/09/12/story-behind-augustinian-abbey-in-ballina/
It was sweet to see "Christian" Mike Pence over in Israel writing messages on American made bombs that'll be dropped on Gaza civilians. The land of the free indeed.
Francis Boyle Genocide ICJ
https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1743614642688332187
Israel fascism Rwanda GAza gray zone
https://twitter.com/SocialRightsIRL/status/1741051999859163479
Gabor Mate
https://youtu.be/N6_GDDa4bmI?si=Hzsj5f9TpUQa9vx8
Jews killing children.
https://twitter.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1676576618188353539
Dershowitz bragging about Jewish power in America.
https://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1742810582342828413
Maybe not all US politicians have lost their morals. This is considered an "extraordinary" intervention from Chas Freeman, former Assistant Secretary of Defense and former US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia. To everyone with half a brain it's a pretty straight forward position.
https://youtu.be/SHwyquMunWM?si=o3IcDeQVddcThPOC
Quote from: Hound on January 06, 2024, 01:36:05 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2024, 11:57:17 AMWar Criminal Netanyahu and his thug Government won't pass any heed of what our leaders say.
Well that's for sure. But Israel consider Ireland the least sympathetic to their cause in the EU, and Varadker, Martin and Michael D are ensuring that continues.
Varadkar rules out joining South African genocide case against Israel in UN Court https://jrnl.ie/6266230
Coward
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 07, 2024, 06:55:30 PMQuote from: Hound on January 06, 2024, 01:36:05 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2024, 11:57:17 AMWar Criminal Netanyahu and his thug Government won't pass any heed of what our leaders say.
Well that's for sure. But Israel consider Ireland the least sympathetic to their cause in the EU, and Varadker, Martin and Michael D are ensuring that continues.
Varadkar rules out joining South African genocide case against Israel in UN Court https://jrnl.ie/6266230
Coward
It wouldn't aid the case one single iota and it would be economic suicide for the country.
The statements by Varadkar, Martin and MichaelD calling out the indiscriminate killing of innocents is all we can do, and we are doing that, and that is more than the vast majority of the West is doing.
Quote from: Hound on January 07, 2024, 07:07:41 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 07, 2024, 06:55:30 PMQuote from: Hound on January 06, 2024, 01:36:05 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2024, 11:57:17 AMWar Criminal Netanyahu and his thug Government won't pass any heed of what our leaders say.
Well that's for sure. But Israel consider Ireland the least sympathetic to their cause in the EU, and Varadker, Martin and Michael D are ensuring that continues.
Varadkar rules out joining South African genocide case against Israel in UN Court https://jrnl.ie/6266230
Coward
It wouldn't aid the case one single iota and it would be economic suicide for the country.
The statements by Varadkar, Martin and MichaelD calling out the indiscriminate killing of innocents is all we can do, and we are doing that, and that is more than the vast majority of the West is doing.
weasel words from weasels (MichaelD aside) we could do way more and did say more about apartheid SA, said more about Russia/Ukraine.. It would be massive for a European Country to break rank with rest of the genocide enablers and do, say amd act more.
I see the new term for 'ethnic cleansing' is 'humanitarian resettlement'.
That's the world we live in.
There are Jewish Nazis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMLxjZ4ZUPI
One of them is Israeli ambassador in London.
https://twitter.com/RedCollectiveUK/status/1743657256514662447
What counts with the ICJ is how the developing world reacts and what it will mean for American power.
Will the game go ahead with Israel?
Quote from: Hound on January 07, 2024, 07:07:41 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 07, 2024, 06:55:30 PMQuote from: Hound on January 06, 2024, 01:36:05 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2024, 11:57:17 AMWar Criminal Netanyahu and his thug Government won't pass any heed of what our leaders say.
Well that's for sure. But Israel consider Ireland the least sympathetic to their cause in the EU, and Varadker, Martin and Michael D are ensuring that continues.
Varadkar rules out joining South African genocide case against Israel in UN Court https://jrnl.ie/6266230
Coward
It wouldn't aid the case one single iota and it would be economic suicide for the country.
The statements by Varadkar, Martin and MichaelD calling out the indiscriminate killing of innocents is all we can do, and we are doing that, and that is more than the vast majority of the West is doing.
I would say Leo and Micheal would f**k up their future big jobs in Europe if they did the right thing. And of course if it's a choice between the right thing and those boys self interest, well we all know the answer to that.
Quote from: Hound on January 06, 2024, 01:36:05 PMQuote from: Rossfan on January 06, 2024, 11:57:17 AMWar Criminal Netanyahu and his thug Government won't pass any heed of what our leaders say.
Well that's for sure. But Israel consider Ireland the least sympathetic to their cause in the EU, and Varadker, Martin and Michael D are ensuring that continues.
Would that be the same Micheal Martin who had the Israeli Ambassador as a guest of the FF Ard Fheis and who took part in a PR photoshoot for the Israelis, standing like an obedient little f**king puppet in an IDF bullet proof vest pointing at a tiny hole in a ceiling, while Gaza was being flattened?
Young people are furious
https://twitter.com/IfNotNowOrg/status/1744436431064330489
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 06, 2024, 12:24:56 PMPalestinians to Rwanda? Thoughts
The exact same thoughts as moving Israelis to Eastern Europe.
Belarus seems nice and empty.....
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 06, 2024, 12:24:56 PMPalestinians to Rwanda? Thoughts
As rancid as sending Crossmaglen to Burundi.No way.
https://youtu.be/w2aCVpOCGFI&t=1620
From last October
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/10/11/michael-mcdowell-israels-right-to-self-defence-must-be-proportionate-lawful-and-humane/
Israel's right to self-defence must be proportionate, lawful and humane
Gaza, already a sump of hopelessness, deprivation and subjection, is about to become a living hell. That will have lasting historical reverberations
Americans already running around the Middle East discussing the rebuild. No doubt there will some big contracts out there for the rebuilding of Gaza.
Best of luck to South Africa as the ICJ hearing starts this morning.
Quote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 08:12:02 AMBest of luck to South Africa as the ICJ hearing starts this morning.
The evidence is overwhelming but you know that there will be some barrier or technicality thrown in here to stop this proceeding, or to delay it for years. Either that or the ICJ will be accused of being Anti Semitic.
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2024, 08:15:06 AMQuote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 08:12:02 AMBest of luck to South Africa as the ICJ hearing starts this morning.
The evidence is overwhelming but you know that there will be some barrier or technicality thrown in here to stop this proceeding, or to delay it for years. Either that or the ICJ will be accused of being Anti Semitic.
Mentioned it before, SA would need to look at itself as well, the country is a mess, corruption, unemployment, poverty, lawlessness, regular blackouts..
But yeah, I suppose it has to start somewhere and might encourage other countries to get behind them
Quote from: Denn Forever on January 06, 2024, 12:24:56 PMPalestinians to Rwanda? Thoughts
Why would you send them there?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:26:11 AMQuote from: Itchy on January 11, 2024, 08:15:06 AMQuote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 08:12:02 AMBest of luck to South Africa as the ICJ hearing starts this morning.
The evidence is overwhelming but you know that there will be some barrier or technicality thrown in here to stop this proceeding, or to delay it for years. Either that or the ICJ will be accused of being Anti Semitic.
Mentioned it before, SA would need to look at itself as well, the country is a mess, corruption, unemployment, poverty, lawlessness, regular blackouts..
But yeah, I suppose it has to start somewhere and might encourage other countries to get behind them
you did mention it before and I was wondering why? it doesn't matter which country referred Israeli Genocide to the ICJ, or what problems you perceived that country to have it pales in comparison to Genocide.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:32:45 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:26:11 AMQuote from: Itchy on January 11, 2024, 08:15:06 AMQuote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 08:12:02 AMBest of luck to South Africa as the ICJ hearing starts this morning.
The evidence is overwhelming but you know that there will be some barrier or technicality thrown in here to stop this proceeding, or to delay it for years. Either that or the ICJ will be accused of being Anti Semitic.
Mentioned it before, SA would need to look at itself as well, the country is a mess, corruption, unemployment, poverty, lawlessness, regular blackouts..
But yeah, I suppose it has to start somewhere and might encourage other countries to get behind them
you did mention it before and I was wondering why? it doesn't matter which country referred Israeli Genocide to the ICJ, or what problems you perceived that country to have it pales in comparison to Genocide.
I'm for it and said in both posts, but this is a country that you wouldn't let your worst enemy stay in, on the international stage it just wouldn't bring enough clout with it to actually bring attention, It needs to be the Swiss or France or the UK to really step up and file those charges
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:54:06 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:32:45 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:26:11 AMQuote from: Itchy on January 11, 2024, 08:15:06 AMQuote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 08:12:02 AMBest of luck to South Africa as the ICJ hearing starts this morning.
The evidence is overwhelming but you know that there will be some barrier or technicality thrown in here to stop this proceeding, or to delay it for years. Either that or the ICJ will be accused of being Anti Semitic.
Mentioned it before, SA would need to look at itself as well, the country is a mess, corruption, unemployment, poverty, lawlessness, regular blackouts..
But yeah, I suppose it has to start somewhere and might encourage other countries to get behind them
you did mention it before and I was wondering why? it doesn't matter which country referred Israeli Genocide to the ICJ, or what problems you perceived that country to have it pales in comparison to Genocide.
I'm for it and said in both posts, but this is a country that you wouldn't let your worst enemy stay in, on the international stage it just wouldn't bring enough clout with it to actually bring attention, It needs to be the Swiss or France or the UK to really step up and file those charges
Quite a lot of those issues you highlighted about SA also apply to the UK, but in relation to bringing this Genocide hearing to the ICJ it really shouldn't matter the background to the country who's rightly bringing this to light.
The West have turned a blind eye to this particular genocide.
Only takes a couple of minutes (if even) to send a letter to your in country representatives urging support for this ICJ case
(Irelands email recipients)
newyorkpmun@dfa.ie,
richard.boydbarrett@oireachtas.ie,
clare.daly@europarl.europa.eu
A call to countries to intervene in ICJ proceedings against Israel (https://sites.google.com/view/justice4gaza/home)
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2024, 10:02:18 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:54:06 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:32:45 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:26:11 AMQuote from: Itchy on January 11, 2024, 08:15:06 AMQuote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 08:12:02 AMBest of luck to South Africa as the ICJ hearing starts this morning.
The evidence is overwhelming but you know that there will be some barrier or technicality thrown in here to stop this proceeding, or to delay it for years. Either that or the ICJ will be accused of being Anti Semitic.
Mentioned it before, SA would need to look at itself as well, the country is a mess, corruption, unemployment, poverty, lawlessness, regular blackouts..
But yeah, I suppose it has to start somewhere and might encourage other countries to get behind them
you did mention it before and I was wondering why? it doesn't matter which country referred Israeli Genocide to the ICJ, or what problems you perceived that country to have it pales in comparison to Genocide.
I'm for it and said in both posts, but this is a country that you wouldn't let your worst enemy stay in, on the international stage it just wouldn't bring enough clout with it to actually bring attention, It needs to be the Swiss or France or the UK to really step up and file those charges
Quite a lot of those issues you highlighted about SA also apply to the UK, but in relation to bringing this Genocide hearing to the ICJ it really shouldn't matter the background to the country who's rightly bringing this to light.
The West have turned a blind eye to this particular genocide.
If you think quite a lot of the issues below relate to the UK then I want what you are smoking.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/africa/southern-africa/south-africa/report-south-africa/
That said I also believe what they have done, internationally as a government in this instance is brilliant and hopefully other countries follow suit as it will take more than one country to try and hold Israel accountable for their deplorable genocide actions for the past 70 odd years!
Again just in case its lost on here, I've mentioned each time, I applaud their actions
Check out how BBC wants to report this story and compare to another news organization. Not a trustworthy source of news.
Iran seizes oil tanker St Nikolas near Oman - reports (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67948119)
"It is unclear why the tanker has been targeted."
Iran navy says it seized oil tanker off Oman (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/11/iran-navy-says-seized-oil-tanker-off-oman-state-media-2)
"Iran has seized a tanker with Iraqi crude destined for Turkey in retaliation for the confiscation last year of the same vessel and its oil by the United States, Iranian state media reported, a move likely to stoke regional tensions.
"The Navy of the Islamic Republic of Iran seized an American oil tanker in the waters of the Gulf of Oman in accordance with a court order," the state-run IRNA news agency said.
"After the theft of Iranian oil by the United States last year, St Nikolas tanker was seized by Iran's Navy", the navy said, as cited by the Iranian news agency Fars."
Nearly crashed th'oul van this evening when Putin's cheerleader Clare Daly came on the News praising SA for taking the Israeli Criminal Government to the Court of Justice.
BBC
Iran seizes oil tanker St Nikolas near Oman (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67948119)
"Iranian state media, quoting the navy, said the seizure was in retaliation for the ship and oil it had aboard being confiscated by the US last year. "
Blinne Ni Ghralaigh at the ICC today as part of the South African legal team. Speaking so eloquently about the genocide of Gaza.
I wonder does Micheal Martin and Leo Varadkar not feel shame that she is the only Irish representative in the room. It hard to see how Israel can possibly defend these accusations legally. I imagine they'll play the man, not the ball.
Quote from: dec on January 11, 2024, 05:46:22 PMBBC
Iran seizes oil tanker St Nikolas near Oman (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67948119)
"Iranian state media, quoting the navy, said the seizure was in retaliation for the ship and oil it had aboard being confiscated by the US last year. "
Recently updated the report
Quote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 05:55:35 PMQuote from: dec on January 11, 2024, 05:46:22 PMBBC
Iran seizes oil tanker St Nikolas near Oman (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67948119)
"Iranian state media, quoting the navy, said the seizure was in retaliation for the ship and oil it had aboard being confiscated by the US last year. "
Recently updated the report
That's how it works as more information becomes available from reliable sources ::)
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2024, 05:54:10 PMBlinne Ni Ghralaigh at the ICC today as part of the South African legal team. Speaking so eloquently about the genocide of Gaza.
I wonder does Micheal Martin and Leo Varadkar not feel shame that she is the only Irish representative in the room. It hard to see how Israel can possibly defend these accusations legally. I imagine they'll play the man, not the ball.
interesting thread here in what inspired here career choice. history repeating itself. Rotten shower of bastards.
https://x.com/soundmigration/status/1745370585733984376?s=46&t=IHjD5eqKRmQgG3lH7T5iGg
looks like the houthis are about to get bombed
Quote from: thebigfella on January 11, 2024, 06:03:23 PMQuote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 05:55:35 PMQuote from: dec on January 11, 2024, 05:46:22 PMBBC
Iran seizes oil tanker St Nikolas near Oman (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67948119)
"Iranian state media, quoting the navy, said the seizure was in retaliation for the ship and oil it had aboard being confiscated by the US last year. "
Recently updated the report
That's how it works as more information becomes available from reliable sources ::)
The BBC gets equal abuse from the far right and far left. All morons or gullible eejits who take their cues from social media.
The BBC is not perfect, and in my view at times goes too far sometimes to prove to the Tories that it is not anti- Tory, but Jeremy Bowen is their lead reporter in Israel and Palestine and he's as good as there is. To suggest the BBC is somehow in the pocket of Israel is , as I've said, moronic. And then you'll get the real extremists quoting the grayzone, the mouthpiece of Putin and China, and it won't take any reader long to see the obscene lies it pedals about Ukraine and Taiwan.
Sky news just had on ex Tory and Labour advisors talking about the Houthi situation. The ex Labour advisor was brilliant. Said of course no problem with Britain protecting shipping lanes but compared to the tens of thousands Israel are killing it's pretty much immaterial. No reprimands to Israel, no sanctions, no nothing. Caught the presenter and the Tory on the hop and they couldn't argue with him.
Then the next guy on, a former ambassador to Saudi and Iraq, also supposed to talk about the Houthis took his cue from the Labour guy and also said it well passed time for the Brits to say enough is enough to the Israelis.
Maybe public opinion is finally getting through.
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2024, 07:54:25 PMQuote from: thebigfella on January 11, 2024, 06:03:23 PMQuote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 05:55:35 PMQuote from: dec on January 11, 2024, 05:46:22 PMBBC
Iran seizes oil tanker St Nikolas near Oman (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67948119)
"Iranian state media, quoting the navy, said the seizure was in retaliation for the ship and oil it had aboard being confiscated by the US last year. "
Recently updated the report
That's how it works as more information becomes available from reliable sources ::)
The BBC gets equal abuse from the far right and far left. All morons or gullible eejits who take their cues from social media.
The BBC is not perfect, and in my view at times goes too far sometimes to prove to the Tories that it is not anti- Tory, but Jeremy Bowen is their lead reporter in Israel and Palestine and he's as good as there is. To suggest the BBC is somehow in the pocket of Israel is , as I've said, moronic. And then you'll get the real extremists quoting the grayzone, the mouthpiece of Putin and China, and it won't take any reader long to see the obscene lies it pedals about Ukraine and Taiwan.
Sky news just had on ex Tory and Labour advisors talking about the Houthi situation. The ex Labour advisor was brilliant. Said of course no problem with Britain protecting shipping lanes but compared to the tens of thousands Israel are killing it's pretty much immaterial. No reprimands to Israel, no sanctions, no nothing. Caught the presenter and the Tory on the hop and they couldn't argue with him.
Then the next guy on, a former ambassador to Saudi and Iraq, also supposed to talk about the Houthis took his cue from the Labour guy and also said it well passed time for the Brits to say enough is enough to the Israelis.
Maybe public opinion is finally getting through.
Once again labelled extremist for calling out bias in reporting. I understand I am using social media but Mona is a pultizer winner. I already discussed in this thread how language matters.
https://twitter.com/MonaChalabi/status/1740767114754232703?t=L_gIE8r6hWM3A_13srMFzg&s=19
sky news - 3 or 4 year old young lady!!
https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1744414371348902297?t=5E1tqlxo5D_pndyuPP3Vaw&s=19
Israeli leading paper - reporting what grayzone did months ago and was based on Israeli media reporting.
https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1745477333979467843?t=212QCggAuMriSESUJ9ZIuQ&s=19
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2024, 07:54:25 PMQuote from: thebigfella on January 11, 2024, 06:03:23 PMQuote from: theskull1 on January 11, 2024, 05:55:35 PMQuote from: dec on January 11, 2024, 05:46:22 PMBBC
Iran seizes oil tanker St Nikolas near Oman (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67948119)
"Iranian state media, quoting the navy, said the seizure was in retaliation for the ship and oil it had aboard being confiscated by the US last year. "
Recently updated the report
That's how it works as more information becomes available from reliable sources ::)
The BBC gets equal abuse from the far right and far left. All morons or gullible eejits who take their cues from social media.
The BBC is not perfect, and in my view at times goes too far sometimes to prove to the Tories that it is not anti- Tory, but Jeremy Bowen is their lead reporter in Israel and Palestine and he's as good as there is. To suggest the BBC is somehow in the pocket of Israel is , as I've said, moronic. And then you'll get the real extremists quoting the grayzone, the mouthpiece of Putin and China, and it won't take any reader long to see the obscene lies it pedals about Ukraine and Taiwan.
Sky news just had on ex Tory and Labour advisors talking about the Houthi situation. The ex Labour advisor was brilliant. Said of course no problem with Britain protecting shipping lanes but compared to the tens of thousands Israel are killing it's pretty much immaterial. No reprimands to Israel, no sanctions, no nothing. Caught the presenter and the Tory on the hop and they couldn't argue with him.
Then the next guy on, a former ambassador to Saudi and Iraq, also supposed to talk about the Houthis took his cue from the Labour guy and also said it well passed time for the Brits to say enough is enough to the Israelis.
Maybe public opinion is finally getting through.
Well said.
The repugnant Russian propaganda outlet GrayZone waits with open arms for all the disenchanted western 'freethinkers'. Disbelieve absolutely everything on the BBC, swallow everything on GrayZone.
The BBC has not reported as far as I can see like Israeli media has and the grayzone has how the Israelis killed both Hamas and Israelis on October 7th.
Some people like to throw about labels, and misinterpret pointing out bias and how important the use of language is in reporting as saying all reporting from a news organisation cannot be trusted or is unreliable when this isn't what is said.
if i was a sceptic, id think the timing of the increased UK and US posturing and potential escalation towards the Houthis is linked to South African actions.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:06:26 PMif i was a sceptic, id think the timing of the increased UK and US posturing and potential escalation towards the Houthis is linked to South African actions.
So what's the link between the South Africans and the Houthis?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:06:26 PMif i was a sceptic, id think the timing of the increased UK and US posturing and potential escalation towards the Houthis is linked to South African actions.
So what's the link between the South Africans and the Houthis?
Well, it's not been mentioned too much but the South Africans have taken a case to the ICJ, a case the UK and the US are not happy about.
An escalation in military activity against the Houthis might just relegate or minimise any reporting of said case and will focus the world media instead on the Red Sea and Yemen rather than on the ICJ.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:00:11 PMThe BBC has not reported as far as I can see like Israeli media has and the grayzone has how the Israelis killed both Hamas and Israelis on October 7th.
Some people like to throw about labels, and misinterpret pointing out bias and how important the use of language is in reporting as saying all reporting from a news organisation cannot be trusted or is unreliable when this isn't what is said.
GrayZone - the no 1 Russian propaganda misinformation outlet on the internet. - it all makes sense now PHP.
You wouldn't happen to follow any of these chaps would you by any chance?
Max Blumenthal
Aaron Mate
Scott Ritter (everyone's favourite disgraced paedophile weapons inspector)
George Galloway
Gonzalo Lira
Lowkey
John Moran
Caitlin Johnston
Patrick Lancaster
Michael Tracey
Medea Benjamin
Eva Bartlett
Graham Phillips
Kim DotCom
Clare Daly
Mick Wallace
Go on - be honest - how many did I get?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:24:05 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:06:26 PMif i was a sceptic, id think the timing of the increased UK and US posturing and potential escalation towards the Houthis is linked to South African actions.
So what's the link between the South Africans and the Houthis?
Well, it's not been mentioned too much but the South Africans have taken a case to the ICJ, a case the UK and the US are not happy about.
An escalation in military activity against the Houthis might just relegate or minimise any reporting of said case and will focus the world media instead on the Red Sea and Yemen rather than on the ICJ.
Are you being serious? Are you a crackpot conspiracy theorist?
this is my one time ill reenage with you but just to show once again how you are completely wrong and misinterpret everything.
it does seem everything comes back to Russia with you, something you accuse others of regarding the US... my initial comment to you was related to exactly that.
to answer your question, lowkey is the only one I follow, I think i followed George Galloway at one stage but I must of unfollowed. I follow c400 and didn't realise Stephen Fry was one which might surprise you. I haven't heard of half those people.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 11, 2024, 09:42:24 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:00:11 PMThe BBC has not reported as far as I can see like Israeli media has and the grayzone has how the Israelis killed both Hamas and Israelis on October 7th.
Some people like to throw about labels, and misinterpret pointing out bias and how important the use of language is in reporting as saying all reporting from a news organisation cannot be trusted or is unreliable when this isn't what is said.
GrayZone - the no 1 Russian propaganda misinformation outlet on the internet. - it all makes sense now PHP.
You wouldn't happen to follow any of these chaps would you by any chance?
Max Blumenthal
Aaron Mate
Scott Ritter (everyone's favourite disgraced paedophile weapons inspector)
George Galloway
Gonzalo Lira
Lowkey
John Moran
Caitlin Johnston
Patrick Lancaster
Michael Tracey
Medea Benjamin
Eva Bartlett
Graham Phillips
Kim DotCom
Clare Daly
Mick Wallace
Go on - be honest - how many did I get?
Strange that you have that list to hand.
What are your thoughts on the fact that Grayzone posted stories early days that people like you ridiculed because Grayzone are Russia apologists etc. But now we know much of what they said was true. Israel did kill scores of their own people on Oct 7th. Were they just lucky this time?
What about the mainstream media that many have defended who just regurgitated word for word everything Israel released which we now know was 90% lies? Is there no accountability for those media outlets. Should we declare them "us/Israel affiliated media" as I basically believe nothing at face value that they write.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:58:41 PMthis is my one time ill reenage with you but just to show once again how you are completely wrong and misinterpret everything.
it does seem everything comes back to Russia with you, something you accuse others of regarding the US... my initial comment to you was related to exactly that.
to answer your question, lowkey is the only one I follow, I think i followed George Galloway at one stage but I must of unfollowed. I follow c400 and didn't realise Stephen Fry was one which might surprise you. I haven't heard of half those people.
So you don't follow GrayZone but you know what they are reporting (as per your post above)? Did I 'misinterpret' you again?
(p.s. Max and Aaron are the chief grifters behind GrayZone)
Here is Mac Blumenthal asking a question today. Do you have a problem with this question or should we just write it off as he's a Russian apologist.
https://twitter.com/TheGrayzoneNews/status/1745523401106575842?t=gB_lH9Y-gEtt3VgIXKpmiQ&s=19
The answer from the US is truly pathetic, that's where the focus should be. Not the man who asked the question
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:56:19 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:24:05 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:06:26 PMif i was a sceptic, id think the timing of the increased UK and US posturing and potential escalation towards the Houthis is linked to South African actions.
So what's the link between the South Africans and the Houthis?
Well, it's not been mentioned too much but the South Africans have taken a case to the ICJ, a case the UK and the US are not happy about.
An escalation in military activity against the Houthis might just relegate or minimise any reporting of said case and will focus the world media instead on the Red Sea and Yemen rather than on the ICJ.
Are you being serious? Are you a crackpot conspiracy theorist?
I am serious (kinda), I am not a conspiracy theorist.
In a world where the President of the US can tell everyone he saw evidence of beheaded babies that doesn't exist and can arm and support the genocide of over 22k palestinans, I am open to almost anything.
I dont know if you are aware of the comment made on 9/11 by a Uk Labour aide, "a good day to bury bad news".
In summary, something to draw attention away from the ICJ would i think be in the interests of the US and UK, I don't think suggesting that is a conspiracy, infact I think TD Cathal Berry on the tonight show (who is a ****) might just said suggested similar.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 11, 2024, 10:16:17 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:58:41 PMthis is my one time ill reenage with you but just to show once again how you are completely wrong and misinterpret everything.
it does seem everything comes back to Russia with you, something you accuse others of regarding the US... my initial comment to you was related to exactly that.
to answer your question, lowkey is the only one I follow, I think i followed George Galloway at one stage but I must of unfollowed. I follow c400 and didn't realise Stephen Fry was one which might surprise you. I haven't heard of half those people.
So you don't follow GrayZone but you know what they are reporting (as per your post above)? Did I 'misinterpret' you again?
(p.s. Max and Aaron are the chief grifters behind GrayZone)
Yes, that is correct I don't follow Grayzone but they appear on my timeline or are referenced or retweeted by others I do follow. Max and Aaron are part of the half I have heard of.
That's my last engage with you.
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2024, 10:13:47 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 11, 2024, 09:42:24 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:00:11 PMThe BBC has not reported as far as I can see like Israeli media has and the grayzone has how the Israelis killed both Hamas and Israelis on October 7th.
Some people like to throw about labels, and misinterpret pointing out bias and how important the use of language is in reporting as saying all reporting from a news organisation cannot be trusted or is unreliable when this isn't what is said.
GrayZone - the no 1 Russian propaganda misinformation outlet on the internet. - it all makes sense now PHP.
You wouldn't happen to follow any of these chaps would you by any chance?
Max Blumenthal
Aaron Mate
Scott Ritter (everyone's favourite disgraced paedophile weapons inspector)
George Galloway
Gonzalo Lira
Lowkey
John Moran
Caitlin Johnston
Patrick Lancaster
Michael Tracey
Medea Benjamin
Eva Bartlett
Graham Phillips
Kim DotCom
Clare Daly
Mick Wallace
Go on - be honest - how many did I get?
Strange that you have that list to hand.
What are your thoughts on the fact that Grayzone posted stories early days that people like you ridiculed because Grayzone are Russia apologists etc. But now we know much of what they said was true. Israel did kill scores of their own people on Oct 7th. Were they just lucky this time?
What about the mainstream media that many have defended who just regurgitated word for word everything Israel released which we now know was 90% lies? Is there no accountability for those media outlets. Should we declare them "us/Israel affiliated media" as I basically believe nothing at face value that they write.
Why is is strange that I have that list Itchy? Is that your top 16 on Twitter? Don't worry I haven't hacked into your account, it's just a coincidence.
This thing is lads, when you come out with the garbage you do on Russia-Ukraine, it is soooo obvious where it's all coming from. It's where all the 'freethinkers' end up.
Your Question: GrayZone is probably more accurate on this occasion because a) Israel lies about everything and b) it suits their agenda.
What you won't find on GrayZone, ever, is any report anywhere on dead Palestinians when slaughtered by Bashar-Al-Assad. You also won't find anything on their media about fat heroic Russian fighter pilots bombing residential neighbourhoods in Syria, slaughtering civilians to this day, just as the Israelis are doing in Gaza. So, Max Blumenthal, naw, don't think so.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 10:33:44 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 11, 2024, 10:16:17 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:58:41 PMthis is my one time ill reenage with you but just to show once again how you are completely wrong and misinterpret everything.
it does seem everything comes back to Russia with you, something you accuse others of regarding the US... my initial comment to you was related to exactly that.
to answer your question, lowkey is the only one I follow, I think i followed George Galloway at one stage but I must of unfollowed. I follow c400 and didn't realise Stephen Fry was one which might surprise you. I haven't heard of half those people.
So you don't follow GrayZone but you know what they are reporting (as per your post above)? Did I 'misinterpret' you again?
(p.s. Max and Aaron are the chief grifters behind GrayZone)
Yes, that is correct I don't follow Grayzone but they appear on my timeline or are referenced or retweeted by others I do follow. Max and Aaron are part of the half I have heard of.
That's my last engage with you.
So you follow guys that retweet GrayZone - same difference, you're just getting the Russian propaganda one step removed.
Don't engage then - keep your head buried in the sand.
You write so much and say so little. I think I'm also done engaging with you. Hopefully you'll get the boot out of here like your previous reincarnation.
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2024, 10:41:44 PMYou write so much and say so little. I think I'm also done engaging with you. Hopefully you'll get the boot out of here like your previous reincarnation.
You lads really, really don't like having your worldview challenged in any way. You're pissed off at the west (nothing wrong in that) but you've been lulled into a big soft warm blanket provided by online Russian propaganda outlets drip feeding you misinformation for years so much so nothing will change your minds. Ever.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 11, 2024, 10:41:36 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 10:33:44 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 11, 2024, 10:16:17 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:58:41 PMthis is my one time ill reenage with you but just to show once again how you are completely wrong and misinterpret everything.
it does seem everything comes back to Russia with you, something you accuse others of regarding the US... my initial comment to you was related to exactly that.
to answer your question, lowkey is the only one I follow, I think i followed George Galloway at one stage but I must of unfollowed. I follow c400 and didn't realise Stephen Fry was one which might surprise you. I haven't heard of half those people.
So you don't follow GrayZone but you know what they are reporting (as per your post above)? Did I 'misinterpret' you again?
(p.s. Max and Aaron are the chief grifters behind GrayZone)
Yes, that is correct I don't follow Grayzone but they appear on my timeline or are referenced or retweeted by others I do follow. Max and Aaron are part of the half I have heard of.
That's my last engage with you.
So you follow guys that retweet GrayZone - same difference, you're just getting the Russian propaganda one step removed.
Don't engage then - keep your head buried in the sand.
Last time i promise, wrong again... I dont get any Russian propaganda or news at all mostly because it's prohibited (before you get the wrong idea, i wouldn't seek it out anyway). almost 100% or what I get to see from grayzone or Max and 100% of my interest in what I see relates to Palestine, the topic of this thread.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 10:52:21 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 11, 2024, 10:41:36 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 10:33:44 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 11, 2024, 10:16:17 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:58:41 PMthis is my one time ill reenage with you but just to show once again how you are completely wrong and misinterpret everything.
it does seem everything comes back to Russia with you, something you accuse others of regarding the US... my initial comment to you was related to exactly that.
to answer your question, lowkey is the only one I follow, I think i followed George Galloway at one stage but I must of unfollowed. I follow c400 and didn't realise Stephen Fry was one which might surprise you. I haven't heard of half those people.
So you don't follow GrayZone but you know what they are reporting (as per your post above)? Did I 'misinterpret' you again?
(p.s. Max and Aaron are the chief grifters behind GrayZone)
Yes, that is correct I don't follow Grayzone but they appear on my timeline or are referenced or retweeted by others I do follow. Max and Aaron are part of the half I have heard of.
That's my last engage with you.
So you follow guys that retweet GrayZone - same difference, you're just getting the Russian propaganda one step removed.
Don't engage then - keep your head buried in the sand.
Last time i promise, wrong again... I dont get any Russian propaganda or news at all mostly because it's prohibited (before you get the wrong idea, i wouldn't seek it out anyway). almost 100% or what I get to see from grayzone or Max and 100% of my interest in what I see relates to Palestine, the topic of this thread.
Does Max or GrayZone ever report of Palestinians murdered by Assad forces in Syria or is it just the ones murdered by Israelis he is concerned about?
Hopefully that's on topic enough for you.
Norman finkelstein predicting only 6/7 judges will vote in South Africans favour. he notes a Uk Judge but there isn't one. US, UK, Russia, China vote no due to implications on their own cases or involvement. Uganda, Australia, Germany and India no. France, Slovakia and Japan 50/50. Brazil, Morocco, Lebanon, Jamaica and Somalia yes.
Reports that Yemen is being targeted now.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 11:36:26 PMReports that Yemen is being targeted now.
Those lovers of freedom are riding to the rescue again. The new axis of evil.
Max Blumenthal is asking exactly the right questions here. If you want to discredit him, based on his views on Ukraine, for example, go right ahead. But his questions are the right ones here, and they need answering.
US/UK very quick to act when shipping routes are affected. Not so much when thousands of economically insignificant Palestinians are killed
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2024, 02:44:56 AMMax Blumenthal is asking exactly the right questions here. If you want to discredit him, based on his views on Ukraine, for example, go right ahead. But his questions are the right ones here, and they need answering.
He discredits himself, not just on Ukraine, but Syria and elsewhere.
So he is asking the right questions on Gaza. Is it just American hypocrisy we are interested in calling out here?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 10:26:45 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:56:19 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:24:05 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:06:26 PMif i was a sceptic, id think the timing of the increased UK and US posturing and potential escalation towards the Houthis is linked to South African actions.
So what's the link between the South Africans and the Houthis?
Well, it's not been mentioned too much but the South Africans have taken a case to the ICJ, a case the UK and the US are not happy about.
An escalation in military activity against the Houthis might just relegate or minimise any reporting of said case and will focus the world media instead on the Red Sea and Yemen rather than on the ICJ.
Are you being serious? Are you a crackpot conspiracy theorist?
I am serious (kinda), I am not a conspiracy theorist.
In a world where the President of the US can tell everyone he saw evidence of beheaded babies that doesn't exist and can arm and support the genocide of over 22k palestinans, I am open to almost anything.
I dont know if you are aware of the comment made on 9/11 by a Uk Labour aide, "a good day to bury bad news".
In summary, something to draw attention away from the ICJ would i think be in the interests of the US and UK, I don't think suggesting that is a conspiracy, infact I think TD Cathal Berry on the tonight show (who is a ****) might just said suggested similar.
Are you suggesting that the governments allowed 9/11 to happen so they could "bury bad news"
Maybe they delayed the impact of the postal cases so they could bury bad news
What's happening in that region has been happening for years, the Houthis, backed by Iran, have upped their game funnily enough with the drones. The Houthis are a step or 10 up on the Somalia pirates, saying they are attacking Israel bound ships, when that's not true.
The Middle East is a cluster f**k and was always ready to explode, the meteorite hitting the planet might be the better option
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 09:06:24 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 10:26:45 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:56:19 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:24:05 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2024, 09:13:13 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:06:26 PMif i was a sceptic, id think the timing of the increased UK and US posturing and potential escalation towards the Houthis is linked to South African actions.
So what's the link between the South Africans and the Houthis?
Well, it's not been mentioned too much but the South Africans have taken a case to the ICJ, a case the UK and the US are not happy about.
An escalation in military activity against the Houthis might just relegate or minimise any reporting of said case and will focus the world media instead on the Red Sea and Yemen rather than on the ICJ.
Are you being serious? Are you a crackpot conspiracy theorist?
I am serious (kinda), I am not a conspiracy theorist.
In a world where the President of the US can tell everyone he saw evidence of beheaded babies that doesn't exist and can arm and support the genocide of over 22k palestinans, I am open to almost anything.
I dont know if you are aware of the comment made on 9/11 by a Uk Labour aide, "a good day to bury bad news".
In summary, something to draw attention away from the ICJ would i think be in the interests of the US and UK, I don't think suggesting that is a conspiracy, infact I think TD Cathal Berry on the tonight show (who is a ****) might just said suggested similar.
Are you suggesting that the governments allowed 9/11 to happen so they could "bury bad news"
Maybe they delayed the impact of the postal cases so they could bury bad news
What's happening in that region has been happening for years, the Houthis, backed by Iran, have upped their game funnily enough with the drones. The Houthis are a step or 10 up on the Somalia pirates, saying they are attacking Israel bound ships, when that's not true.
The Middle East is a cluster f**k and was always ready to explode, the meteorite hitting the planet might be the better option
No, I am not suggesting they let 9/11 happen. I am suggusting that if something major happens it a good time to bury news or move other big news stories off our screens (for the little coverage they got).
You can bury existing news by creating new news, it happens all the time in politics (at a lower level) a soundbite to capture the headlines rather than the real issue getting airtime etc.
As you suggest what's happening has been happening for years, houtis upped their game but why was it yesterday the US And Uk decided to escalte tense in the region?
I am not suggesting the US and UK wouldn't have taken this action anyway at some point (as they care more for shipping routes than Palestinians) , but it certainly suits them to do it now as it also takes attention for the ICJ. Happy coincidence for them or a strategic move?
I think its just the way of the world, you could argue that Iran are doing it to destabilase the West economy and using what is happening in Gaza as another way of doing that.
Be rest assured though, Iran only has its own interests at heart.
There are some serious conflicts happening al over the world, that if left alone with no involvement from outsiders there would be calls of for intervention by one government or another..
The world needs a reset, the hate levels are global
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 11, 2024, 09:42:24 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 11, 2024, 09:00:11 PMThe BBC has not reported as far as I can see like Israeli media has and the grayzone has how the Israelis killed both Hamas and Israelis on October 7th.
Some people like to throw about labels, and misinterpret pointing out bias and how important the use of language is in reporting as saying all reporting from a news organisation cannot be trusted or is unreliable when this isn't what is said.
GrayZone - the no 1 Russian propaganda misinformation outlet on the internet. - it all makes sense now PHP.
You wouldn't happen to follow any of these chaps would you by any chance?
Max Blumenthal
Aaron Mate
Scott Ritter (everyone's favourite disgraced paedophile weapons inspector)
George Galloway
Gonzalo Lira
Lowkey
John Moran
Caitlin Johnston
Patrick Lancaster
Michael Tracey
Medea Benjamin
Eva Bartlett
Graham Phillips
Kim DotCom
Clare Daly
Mick Wallace
Go on - be honest - how many did I get?
Zero
I follow Amira Hass , Miko Peled, Peter Beinart
Zionism is fucked. The gates of the Augean Stables have been opened
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 09:31:17 AMI think its just the way of the world, you could argue that Iran are doing it to destabilase the West economy and using what is happening in Gaza as another way of doing that.
Be rest assured though, Iran only has its own interests at heart.
There are some serious conflicts happening al over the world, that if left alone with no involvement from outsiders there would be calls of for intervention by one government or another..
The world needs a reset, the hate levels are global
Firstly, I think you'll find western governments say Iran are doing that for that exact reason.
it's just the way of the world!!! is naive.
at a very high level, someone or group of people in governments makes these decisions and they are influenced by others and what benefits/consequences will that action have. Unfortunately, motives of the West/Russia/China IMO in making those decision is commerical and done to remain in power. nothing new there..
When I make a decision in my job, I do the same weight up internal/external consequences benefits, I have to look at timing incase there is media attention etc.
now US and UK interests are serviced by less focus on ICJ as they are arming the Israelis who are committing the genocide.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 09:31:17 AMI think its just the way of the world, you could argue that Iran are doing it to destabilase the West economy and using what is happening in Gaza as another way of doing that.
Be rest assured though, Iran only has its own interests at heart.
There are some serious conflicts happening al over the world, that if left alone with no involvement from outsiders there would be calls of for intervention by one government or another..
The world needs a reset, the hate levels are global
Glad to see you are coming around to my way of thinking. The human race doesn't deserve a planet, we should pray to all our different gods for a meteor to bring forth an extinction and let evolution try again.
maybe I was wrong about media coverage, see comments that Sky News are showing the ICJ live today for Israels rebuttal. I wonder why there was no live coverage yesterday? 🤔
BBC and CNN similarly. (although i though saw CNN live yesterday)
Michael Martin speaks of division and the opposition - weasal words from a Coward.
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1745530516831383962?t=wvj5TzKtTmyLVtEYIL6iIQ&s=19
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:36:47 AMMichael Martin speaks of division and the opposition - weasal words from a Coward.
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1745530516831383962?t=wvj5TzKtTmyLVtEYIL6iIQ&s=19
A man with no spine. The worst leader we have ever had in this country in my opinion.
Quote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 01:35:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:36:47 AMMichael Martin speaks of division and the opposition - weasal words from a Coward.
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1745530516831383962?t=wvj5TzKtTmyLVtEYIL6iIQ&s=19
A man with no spine. The worst leader we have ever had in this country in my opinion.
If I understand the recent German announcement correctly they are stepping in to support Israel in the ICJ. Always on the side of genocide...
The excuses are running our for the Irish government to join and support SAat the ICJ. Europe is not speaking as one.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 05:19:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 01:35:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:36:47 AMMichael Martin speaks of division and the opposition - weasal words from a Coward.
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1745530516831383962?t=wvj5TzKtTmyLVtEYIL6iIQ&s=19
A man with no spine. The worst leader we have ever had in this country in my opinion.
If I understand the recent German announcement correctly they are stepping in to support Israel in the ICJ. Always on the side of genocide...
The excuses are running our for the Irish government to join and support SAat the ICJ. Europe is not speaking as one.
Sons and daughters of Nazis now supporting the new Nazis.
MSF that's doctors without Borders bombed on the 8th leading to the death of a 5 year old child.
https://twitter.com/MSF_canada/status/1744804976160104751?t=GpCsw1deRiL5BPuLk0Hmpg&s=19
No going back for Israel
https://twitter.com/LeeCamp/status/1745856555197890980
Quote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 05:21:16 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 05:19:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 01:35:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:36:47 AMMichael Martin speaks of division and the opposition - weasal words from a Coward.
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1745530516831383962?t=wvj5TzKtTmyLVtEYIL6iIQ&s=19
A man with no spine. The worst leader we have ever had in this country in my opinion.
If I understand the recent German announcement correctly they are stepping in to support Israel in the ICJ. Always on the side of genocide...
The excuses are running our for the Irish government to join and support SAat the ICJ. Europe is not speaking as one.
Sons and daughters of Nazis now supporting the new Nazis.
Can we then put out that the Irish government are nazis?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 05:19:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 01:35:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:36:47 AMMichael Martin speaks of division and the opposition - weasal words from a Coward.
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1745530516831383962?t=wvj5TzKtTmyLVtEYIL6iIQ&s=19
A man with no spine. The worst leader we have ever had in this country in my opinion.
If I understand the recent German announcement correctly they are stepping in to support Israel in the ICJ. Always on the side of genocide...
The excuses are running our for the Irish government to join and support SAat the ICJ. Europe is not speaking as one.
No surprise. Germany's history cripples them when it comes to Israel
Quote from: Tubberman on January 12, 2024, 08:27:31 AMUS/UK very quick to act when shipping routes are affected. Not so much when thousands of economically insignificant Palestinians are killed
Yup.
And there's always money for missiles and military aircraft , but not for health, education or the likes.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 07:57:06 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 05:21:16 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 05:19:50 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 01:35:27 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:36:47 AMMichael Martin speaks of division and the opposition - weasal words from a Coward.
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1745530516831383962?t=wvj5TzKtTmyLVtEYIL6iIQ&s=19
A man with no spine. The worst leader we have ever had in this country in my opinion.
If I understand the recent German announcement correctly they are stepping in to support Israel in the ICJ. Always on the side of genocide...
The excuses are running our for the Irish government to join and support SAat the ICJ. Europe is not speaking as one.
Sons and daughters of Nazis now supporting the new Nazis.
Can we then put out that the Irish government are nazis?
Did the Irish Government announce they would be intervening in the ICJ on behalf of Israel? As bad they are they are not that bad. So no you can't call them Nazis
But they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
The South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Quote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
No they are bringing it as the Israelis are committing a Genocide.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
Quote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Just when you think you've read some of the most stupid comments known to man, along comes this clown and sets a new standard.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:57:10 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
the germans do. might have been a little unclear
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:58:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:57:10 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
the germans do. might have been a little unclear
An estimated 8,000 to 10,000 people marched in the German capital. About 1,000 police were deployed in part to prevent any anti-Semitic speeches or signage.
Until recently, most pro-Palestinian demonstrations were banned in Berlin because local authorities feared an outburst of violence or anti-Semitism.
The German Government sees the suffering of people in Gaza and has repeatedly increased its humanitarian assistance, most recently on 15 December by 24 million euro. This brings overall assistance in 2023 for the Palestinian territories to 203 million euro, with 130 million euro in new funding since 7 October.
Have we a figure on what the Irish government have given?
Quote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 10:58:14 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Just when you think you've read some of the most stupid comments known to man, along comes this clown and sets a new standard.
Clown, huh? Says the lad who decrees who we should and shouldn't call a nazi (ha ha!), who gloats at people in prison for Christmas, who wants all humanity wiped out, yet wants to fill this country with anyone and everyone.
By the way, what was stupid about my comment?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:05:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:58:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:57:10 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
the germans do. might have been a little unclear
An estimated 8,000 to 10,000 people marched in the German capital. About 1,000 police were deployed in part to prevent any anti-Semitic speeches or signage. Until recently, most pro-Palestinian demonstrations were banned in Berlin because local authorities feared an outburst of violence or anti-Semitism.
The German Government sees the suffering of people in Gaza and has repeatedly increased its humanitarian assistance, most recently on 15 December by 24 million euro. This brings overall assistance in 2023 for the Palestinian territories to 203 million euro, with 130 million euro in new funding since 7 October.
Have we a figure on what the Irish government have given?
BERLIN, Nov 8 (Reuters) - German defence export approvals to Israel so far this year have risen nearly tenfold from last year.....As of Nov. 2, the German government has approved the export of close to 303 million euros' ($323 million) worth of defence equipment to Israel. By comparison, 32 million euros' worth of defence exports were approved in all of 2022.
Quote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 11:06:44 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 10:58:14 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Just when you think you've read some of the most stupid comments known to man, along comes this clown and sets a new standard.
Clown, huh? Says the lad who decrees who we should and shouldn't call a nazi (ha ha!), who gloats at people in prison for Christmas, who wants all humanity wiped out, yet wants to fill this country with anyone and everyone.
By the way, what was stupid about my comment?
Away back to the sewer ya racist turd.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:09:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:05:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:58:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:57:10 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
the germans do. might have been a little unclear
An estimated 8,000 to 10,000 people marched in the German capital. About 1,000 police were deployed in part to prevent any anti-Semitic speeches or signage. Until recently, most pro-Palestinian demonstrations were banned in Berlin because local authorities feared an outburst of violence or anti-Semitism.
The German Government sees the suffering of people in Gaza and has repeatedly increased its humanitarian assistance, most recently on 15 December by 24 million euro. This brings overall assistance in 2023 for the Palestinian territories to 203 million euro, with 130 million euro in new funding since 7 October.
Have we a figure on what the Irish government have given?
BERLIN, Nov 8 (Reuters) - German defence export approvals to Israel so far this year have risen nearly tenfold from last year.....As of Nov. 2, the German government has approved the export of close to 303 million euros' ($323 million) worth of defence equipment to Israel. By comparison, 32 million euros' worth of defence exports were approved in all of 2022.
Show me a country that makes arms, that's not doing 'business' in countries that are in conflict?
Again how much has Ireland given to Gaza? And are there people in Germany having protests against what's happening in Gazza?
Quote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 11:11:00 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 11:06:44 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 12, 2024, 10:58:14 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Just when you think you've read some of the most stupid comments known to man, along comes this clown and sets a new standard.
Clown, huh? Says the lad who decrees who we should and shouldn't call a nazi (ha ha!), who gloats at people in prison for Christmas, who wants all humanity wiped out, yet wants to fill this country with anyone and everyone.
By the way, what was stupid about my comment?
Away back to the sewer ya racist turd.
Good one, baby!
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:58:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:57:10 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
the germans do. might have been a little unclear
The Brits were passing laws to that effect as well I think.
Quote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:15:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:09:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:05:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:58:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:57:10 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
the germans do. might have been a little unclear
An estimated 8,000 to 10,000 people marched in the German capital. About 1,000 police were deployed in part to prevent any anti-Semitic speeches or signage. Until recently, most pro-Palestinian demonstrations were banned in Berlin because local authorities feared an outburst of violence or anti-Semitism.
The German Government sees the suffering of people in Gaza and has repeatedly increased its humanitarian assistance, most recently on 15 December by 24 million euro. This brings overall assistance in 2023 for the Palestinian territories to 203 million euro, with 130 million euro in new funding since 7 October.
Have we a figure on what the Irish government have given?
BERLIN, Nov 8 (Reuters) - German defence export approvals to Israel so far this year have risen nearly tenfold from last year.....As of Nov. 2, the German government has approved the export of close to 303 million euros' ($323 million) worth of defence equipment to Israel. By comparison, 32 million euros' worth of defence exports were approved in all of 2022.
Show me a country that makes arms, that's not doing 'business' in countries that are in conflict?
Again how much has Ireland given to Gaza? And are there people in Germany having protests against what's happening in Gazza?
what's with all the questions?
Germany have a choice and they have chosen to arm apartheid Israel in the slaughter of Palestinians. Would you agree with that statement. They have a choice.
you found out how much the German are, why do I have to go off and find out that amount for you.
as I said, it easier to get Uk and US news but a quick Google will show you protesting in Germany has been banned and is harder and is suppressed more than the UK and US. Obviously, I haven't don't a thesis on this or speak German but there is plenty of articles and evidence of it. Gje german govt is also very pro Israeli and von leyen clearly is pro Israeli regardless of their actions.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:28:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Spineless nazis, supporters and people voting FF and FG can be looked at as Nazis or supporters of a Nazi supporter led government
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:32:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:28:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Spineless nazis, supporters and people voting FF and FG can be looked at as Nazis or supporters of a Nazi supporter led government
is that your opinion?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:34:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:32:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:28:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Spineless nazis, supporters and people voting FF and FG can be looked at as Nazis or supporters of a Nazi supporter led government
is that your opinion?
What would call a government doing nothing, even going to Israel and shaking hands with 'hitler' in Israel?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:36:34 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:34:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:32:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:28:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Spineless nazis, supporters and people voting FF and FG can be looked at as Nazis or supporters of a Nazi supporter led government
is that your opinion?
What would call a government doing nothing, even going to Israel and shaking hands with 'hitler' in Israel?
did you miss the question mark?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:37:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:36:34 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:34:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:32:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:28:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Spineless nazis, supporters and people voting FF and FG can be looked at as Nazis or supporters of a Nazi supporter led government
is that your opinion?
What would call a government doing nothing, even going to Israel and shaking hands with 'hitler' in Israel?
did you miss the question mark?
I asked you questions earlier and you must have missed the question mark.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:42:06 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:37:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:36:34 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:34:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:32:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:28:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Spineless nazis, supporters and people voting FF and FG can be looked at as Nazis or supporters of a Nazi supporter led government
is that your opinion?
What would call a government doing nothing, even going to Israel and shaking hands with 'hitler' in Israel?
did you miss the question mark?
I asked you questions earlier and you must have missed the question mark.
what question?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:45:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:42:06 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:37:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:36:34 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:34:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:32:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:28:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Spineless nazis, supporters and people voting FF and FG can be looked at as Nazis or supporters of a Nazi supporter led government
is that your opinion?
What would call a government doing nothing, even going to Israel and shaking hands with 'hitler' in Israel?
did you miss the question mark?
I asked you questions earlier and you must have missed the question mark.
what question?
How much are the Irish government giving Gaza in respect to what the Germans are providing?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:46:41 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:45:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:42:06 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:37:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:36:34 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:34:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:32:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:28:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Spineless nazis, supporters and people voting FF and FG can be looked at as Nazis or supporters of a Nazi supporter led government
is that your opinion?
What would call a government doing nothing, even going to Israel and shaking hands with 'hitler' in Israel?
did you miss the question mark?
I asked you questions earlier and you must have missed the question mark.
what question?
How much are the Irish government giving Gaza in respect to what the Germans are providing?
I answered that I told you to look it up yourself...why do you expect me to do research for you?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:48:12 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:46:41 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:45:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:42:06 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:37:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:36:34 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:34:18 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:32:15 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:28:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:27:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 12, 2024, 11:23:29 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 12, 2024, 10:45:59 PMThe South African govt. is only bring the case out of spite, and I'd imagine it won't be successful.
Whatever their reasons, at least they are doing it. Any government with an ounce of decency would be backing them.
Thoses that aren't should be called out as Nazi's
Spineless then?
Spineless nazis, supporters and people voting FF and FG can be looked at as Nazis or supporters of a Nazi supporter led government
is that your opinion?
What would call a government doing nothing, even going to Israel and shaking hands with 'hitler' in Israel?
did you miss the question mark?
I asked you questions earlier and you must have missed the question mark.
what question?
How much are the Irish government giving Gaza in respect to what the Germans are providing?
I answered that I told you to look it up yourself...why do you expect me to do research for you?
Aye, dead on....
Here's what I think
The Irish government are spineless supporters of the the Israel genocide of Gaza, and if people vote FF and FG in the next election they'll be supporting what these spineless politicians have backed .
Calling other governments nazi supporters while not thinking their own isn't is a bit strange
thanks, you were able to google the German figure, I've no idea why you expected me to get you the Irish figure and then do a comparison...
I dont think I called any govt. Nazi supporters and not language I would tend to use as it can then be used as a distract away from the point actually been made.
I wouldn't be far off your opinion there, I have called them cowards who use weasel words so similar to spineless. I know they aren't doing enough and chose not to do more.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 13, 2024, 12:01:43 AMthanks, you were able to google the German figure, I've no idea why you expected me to get you the Irish figure and then do a comparison...
I dont think I called any govt. Nazi supporters and not language I would tend to use as it can then be used as a distract away from the point actually been made.
I wouldn't be far off your opinion there, I have called them cowards who use weasel words so similar to spineless. I know they aren't doing enough and chose not to do more.
Will you be supporting them in next election?
We should start by boycotting anything Irish until they follow what SA have done, otherwise we are supporting it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2024, 12:05:29 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 13, 2024, 12:01:43 AMthanks, you were able to google the German figure, I've no idea why you expected me to get you the Irish figure and then do a comparison...
I dont think I called any govt. Nazi supporters and not language I would tend to use as it can then be used as a distract away from the point actually been made.
I wouldn't be far off your opinion there, I have called them cowards who use weasel words so similar to spineless. I know they aren't doing enough and chose not to do more.
Will you be supporting them in next election?
I haven't supported them before and won't in the next election.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2024, 12:07:52 AMWe should start by boycotting anything Irish until they follow what SA have done, otherwise we are supporting it
can you bring me through this logic?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:15:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:09:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:05:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:58:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:57:10 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
the germans do. might have been a little unclear
An estimated 8,000 to 10,000 people marched in the German capital. About 1,000 police were deployed in part to prevent any anti-Semitic speeches or signage. Until recently, most pro-Palestinian demonstrations were banned in Berlin because local authorities feared an outburst of violence or anti-Semitism.
The German Government sees the suffering of people in Gaza and has repeatedly increased its humanitarian assistance, most recently on 15 December by 24 million euro. This brings overall assistance in 2023 for the Palestinian territories to 203 million euro, with 130 million euro in new funding since 7 October.
Have we a figure on what the Irish government have given?
BERLIN, Nov 8 (Reuters) - German defence export approvals to Israel so far this year have risen nearly tenfold from last year.....As of Nov. 2, the German government has approved the export of close to 303 million euros' ($323 million) worth of defence equipment to Israel. By comparison, 32 million euros' worth of defence exports were approved in all of 2022.
Show me a country that makes arms, that's not doing 'business' in countries that are in conflict?
Again how much has Ireland given to Gaza? And are there people in Germany having protests against what's happening in Gazza?
You do enjoy being a contrarian, but whatever way you view this huge increase of arms from Germany to Israel, it is absolutely disgusting and will play out very poorly in history books.
Germany has or had a 'self-imposed restriction of not exporting arms to active war zones'. But but....
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 13, 2024, 12:14:43 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2024, 12:07:52 AMWe should start by boycotting anything Irish until they follow what SA have done, otherwise we are supporting it
can you bring me through this logic?
These politicians are only concerned with staying in power, how else can you have both ff and Fg in power lol
Hit them where it hurts. Put someone in power that'll at least make a stand. The Irish government are rotten
Quote from: JoG2 on January 13, 2024, 12:19:24 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:15:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:09:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:05:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:58:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:57:10 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
the germans do. might have been a little unclear
An estimated 8,000 to 10,000 people marched in the German capital. About 1,000 police were deployed in part to prevent any anti-Semitic speeches or signage. Until recently, most pro-Palestinian demonstrations were banned in Berlin because local authorities feared an outburst of violence or anti-Semitism.
The German Government sees the suffering of people in Gaza and has repeatedly increased its humanitarian assistance, most recently on 15 December by 24 million euro. This brings overall assistance in 2023 for the Palestinian territories to 203 million euro, with 130 million euro in new funding since 7 October.
Have we a figure on what the Irish government have given?
BERLIN, Nov 8 (Reuters) - German defence export approvals to Israel so far this year have risen nearly tenfold from last year.....As of Nov. 2, the German government has approved the export of close to 303 million euros' ($323 million) worth of defence equipment to Israel. By comparison, 32 million euros' worth of defence exports were approved in all of 2022.
Show me a country that makes arms, that's not doing 'business' in countries that are in conflict?
Again how much has Ireland given to Gaza? And are there people in Germany having protests against what's happening in Gazza?
You do enjoy being a contrarian, but whatever way you view this huge increase of arms from Germany to Israel, it is absolutely disgusting and will play out very poorly in history books.
Germany has or had a 'self-imposed restriction of not exporting arms to active war zones'. But but....
Quote from: JoG2 on January 13, 2024, 12:19:24 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:15:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 11:09:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 11:05:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:58:52 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:57:10 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2024, 10:48:11 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2024, 10:25:31 PMBut they are not doing what SA have done ..
So on the same power as the Brits and US.
obviosuly we see more UK news and US content so hard to say but they are worst in some ways like banning protests, they send weapons like the US/UK.
Could the US stop the Israeli genocide? If the US called for ceasefire, likely triggering others to do similar would Israel agree to a ceasefire?
Banning protests? Plenty protests in Belfast so I'm not sure what you are talking about
the germans do. might have been a little unclear
An estimated 8,000 to 10,000 people marched in the German capital. About 1,000 police were deployed in part to prevent any anti-Semitic speeches or signage. Until recently, most pro-Palestinian demonstrations were banned in Berlin because local authorities feared an outburst of violence or anti-Semitism.
The German Government sees the suffering of people in Gaza and has repeatedly increased its humanitarian assistance, most recently on 15 December by 24 million euro. This brings overall assistance in 2023 for the Palestinian territories to 203 million euro, with 130 million euro in new funding since 7 October.
Have we a figure on what the Irish government have given?
BERLIN, Nov 8 (Reuters) - German defence export approvals to Israel so far this year have risen nearly tenfold from last year.....As of Nov. 2, the German government has approved the export of close to 303 million euros' ($323 million) worth of defence equipment to Israel. By comparison, 32 million euros' worth of defence exports were approved in all of 2022.
Show me a country that makes arms, that's not doing 'business' in countries that are in conflict?
Again how much has Ireland given to Gaza? And are there people in Germany having protests against what's happening in Gazza?
You do enjoy being a contrarian, but whatever way you view this huge increase of arms from Germany to Israel, it is absolutely disgusting and will play out very poorly in history books.
Germany has or had a 'self-imposed restriction of not exporting arms to active war zones'. But but....
I'm debating or questioning, if I'm being a contrarian, well, whatever
So many countries/companies supply arms, if Ireland had the manpower manufacturers or skill set to make arms we'd be doing the same.
70-year-old charged after car runs into pro-Palestine demo in Edinburgh
Brando in Apocalypse Now. An acting masterclass.
Israel is the heart of darkness
Israel will only get worse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPPGMNOLaMw
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2024, 11:39:53 AMBrando in Apocalypse Now. An acting masterclass.
Israel is the heart of darkness
Israel will only get worse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPPGMNOLaMw
Would have more respect for Kurtz TBH, in the book and the film he does reflect on his actions and recognizes the impossibility of redemption when he's gone to far. There is some correlation in the horror of colonialism and imperial plunder.
The state of the likes of paul murphy in the dail today why are they not being called out for cultural appropriation
Quote from: Eire90 on January 17, 2024, 09:58:00 PMThe state of the likes of paul murphy in the dail today why are they not being called out for cultural appropriation
because its solidarity not cultural appropriation.
Fair play to Clare Daly on this
https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/1488767218520961
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 17, 2024, 11:26:30 PMFair play to Clare Daly on this
https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/1488767218520961
Boke. Clare Daly is an Assad apologist and cares not a jot when Assad slaughters Palestinians along with the hundreds of thousands of Syrian civilians.
There's a Syria thread if you want to bother. I'm highlighting what she said, correctly, about what's happening in Israel/Gaza.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 17, 2024, 11:40:32 PMThere's a Syria thread if you want to bother. I'm highlighting what she said, correctly, about what's happening in Israel/Gaza.
I think it's relevant to point out that Clare Daly has never condemned Assad for murdering Palestinians, since she is all against Israel murdering Palestinians. Any right minded person would condemn both. Why does she not?
Would you like to take issue with anything she said today?
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 17, 2024, 11:46:03 PMWould you like to take issue with anything she said today?
Yes.
I think that the ancestors of the Ireland she thinks she represents would disown her as well as a 'Butcher Assad' apologist and she should take the name of Ireland out of her hypocrite mouth.
Her beloved peaceful Iran has also bombed Pakistan which she has failed to mention in her speech.
She is truly disgusting.
You've made your point now several times, loud and clear: she's a hypocrite.
Using an international stage, however, she has joined with South Africa, Namibia and others to call out what Israel is doing in Gaza, what America is doing, and what Germany has signed off on. Not many are doing that. It is important.
Do you disagree with anything she said here about Israel/Gaza?
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 17, 2024, 11:54:29 PMYou've made your point now several times, loud and clear: she's a hypocrite.
Using an international stage, however, she has joined with South Africa, Namibia and others to call out what Israel is doing in Gaza, what America is doing, and what Germany has signed off on. Not many are doing that. It is important.
Do you disagree with anything she said here about Israel/Gaza?
Yes I think she is talking nonsense and likes the sound of her own voice.
I don't think Israel is losing on the ground. They are losing in the court of public opinion but that counts for not one jot. When the dust settles after this latest slaughter of Palestinians things will revert back to the status quo. Israel won't be a pariah state. They should be but they won't. They'll still be in Eurovision and attend all international events etc etc as if nothing has happened.
Also, she is a disgusting hypocrite.
I guess we'll see about pariah state status. You might be right, but I think South Africa's actions changes things. There are also multiple articles/op eds in publications such as the New York Times and the New Yorker over here calling Israel out (in as many words) on war crimes and Genocide (and these publications would traditionally have been supportive of Israel). Younger USians are far less likely to support Israel. I think the tide is turning.
It is important that those with public and international platforms continue to call out Israel and the US on this.
I think you're wrong about public opinion mattering not one jot to Israel. That they maintain powerful lobbies in the US and the UK (maybe elsewhere too?), that they have weaponized the definition of antisemitism to include criticism of Israel, and that they are fighting South Africa's charge of genocide, suggests they are keenly aware of the importance of public opinion.
"Not one jot "
Sure
Piers Morgan
https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1747295144729297379
Israel is committing genocide and people are calling on it to stop. That's it. When they do stop - things will return back to 'normal'. We've been here before, just not on this scale. But it will be all about the attacks on Oct 7th and how Israel got a bit carried away with itself.
You may be right about Irish public opinion and the next time ROI or Celtic are playing an Israeli side there will be plenty of Palestinian flags in the crowd but the match will be played.
Israeli spokespersons might be asked slightly tougher questions but they will just tell more lies. And then nothing.
charlie lawson has enough
https://twitter.com/Shorty207792550/status/1747302287494566104
thomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:27:25 AMthomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Don't listen to any of them if you don't want to but just be sure to include Clare Daly on your list.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 09:37:47 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:27:25 AMthomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Don't listen to any of them if you don't want to but just be sure to include Clare Daly on your list.
the question was who should we listen to?
Whatever about Claire Dalys other actions she is spot on there.
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 03:14:05 AM"Not one jot "
Sure
Piers Morgan
https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1747295144729297379
Israel don't have a plan for after. Looks more like they're working on a final solution.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 18, 2024, 10:51:39 AMQuote from: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 03:14:05 AM"Not one jot "
Sure
Piers Morgan
https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1747295144729297379
Israel don't have a plan for after. Looks more like they're working on a final solution.
Don't agree, the plan is to rid Gaza of Palestinians. Get down to a manageable number. Plant it with Jews. Then start on west bank. You don't have to dig to had to find it as many zionists are already saying this publicly.
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2024, 10:53:45 AMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 18, 2024, 10:51:39 AMQuote from: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 03:14:05 AM"Not one jot "
Sure
Piers Morgan
https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1747295144729297379
Israel don't have a plan for after. Looks more like they're working on a final solution.
Don't agree, the plan is to rid Gaza of Palestinians. Get down to a manageable number. Plant it with Jews. Then start on west bank. You don't have to dig to had to find it as many zionists are already saying this publicly.
That is the plan, total ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
October 7th provided the smokescreen for it, but the Zionists were always planning for this to happen.
Modern day Plantation.
But that surely was the tactic when they were homed there after the war?
Everyone knew from early on from the rhetoric used that the Jews were going back to The Promised land
Biblical Israel is generally thought of as that region south and southwest of the Lebanon mountains, north and east of Egypt, east of the Mediterranean coastal plain, and west of the Arabian desert
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:55:47 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 09:37:47 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:27:25 AMthomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Don't listen to any of them if you don't want to but just be sure to include Clare Daly on your list.
the question was who should we listen to?
I can't tell you who you should listen to PHP. All I can tell you is whoever you're listening to - listen to what they're saying and not saying on other similar issues in the world.
Especially similar issues right next door to the conflict they are so passionate about, e.g. indiscriminate murder of thousands of civilians in Syria, including Palestinians.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 11:23:41 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:55:47 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 09:37:47 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:27:25 AMthomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Don't listen to any of them if you don't want to but just be sure to include Clare Daly on your list.
the question was who should we listen to?
I can't tell you who you should listen to PHP. All I can tell you is whoever you're listening to - listen to what they're saying and not saying on other similar issues in the world.
Especially similar issues right next door to the conflict they are so passionate about, e.g. indiscriminate murder of thousands of civilians in Syria, including Palestinians.
See no one hears anything about that.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 11:44:22 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 11:23:41 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:55:47 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 09:37:47 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:27:25 AMthomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Don't listen to any of them if you don't want to but just be sure to include Clare Daly on your list.
the question was who should we listen to?
I can't tell you who you should listen to PHP. All I can tell you is whoever you're listening to - listen to what they're saying and not saying on other similar issues in the world.
Especially similar issues right next door to the conflict they are so passionate about, e.g. indiscriminate murder of thousands of civilians in Syria, including Palestinians.
See no one hears anything about that.
They don't hear about it cos their favourite truthsayers on Xitter and human rights crusaders like Wallace and Daly conveniently don't bother to mention it. Ever. In the case of Daly, not even when she is having a tour of the massacre site.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 11:51:49 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 11:44:22 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 11:23:41 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:55:47 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 09:37:47 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:27:25 AMthomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Don't listen to any of them if you don't want to but just be sure to include Clare Daly on your list.
the question was who should we listen to?
I can't tell you who you should listen to PHP. All I can tell you is whoever you're listening to - listen to what they're saying and not saying on other similar issues in the world.
Especially similar issues right next door to the conflict they are so passionate about, e.g. indiscriminate murder of thousands of civilians in Syria, including Palestinians.
See no one hears anything about that.
They don't hear about it cos their favourite truthsayers on Xitter and human rights crusaders like Wallace and Daly conveniently don't bother to mention it. Ever. In the case of Daly, not even when she is having a tour of the massacre site.
Or the ordinary news for the average person who doesn't get their news from doses on twitter. Was it ever put to Daly about it?
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 11:57:43 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 11:51:49 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 11:44:22 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 11:23:41 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:55:47 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 09:37:47 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:27:25 AMthomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Don't listen to any of them if you don't want to but just be sure to include Clare Daly on your list.
the question was who should we listen to?
I can't tell you who you should listen to PHP. All I can tell you is whoever you're listening to - listen to what they're saying and not saying on other similar issues in the world.
Especially similar issues right next door to the conflict they are so passionate about, e.g. indiscriminate murder of thousands of civilians in Syria, including Palestinians.
See no one hears anything about that.
They don't hear about it cos their favourite truthsayers on Xitter and human rights crusaders like Wallace and Daly conveniently don't bother to mention it. Ever. In the case of Daly, not even when she is having a tour of the massacre site.
Or the ordinary news for the average person who doesn't get their news from doses on twitter. Was it ever put to Daly about it?
Plenty of replies highlighting it on Xitter but they just use that platform to make pronouncements.
Fair enough. I rarely if ever be on twitter.
piers morgan says isreal gone to far.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 11:23:41 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:55:47 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 09:37:47 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:27:25 AMthomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Don't listen to any of them if you don't want to but just be sure to include Clare Daly on your list.
the question was who should we listen to?
I can't tell you who you should listen to PHP. All I can tell you is whoever you're listening to - listen to what they're saying and not saying on other similar issues in the world.
Especially similar issues right next door to the conflict they are so passionate about, e.g. indiscriminate murder of thousands of civilians in Syria, including Palestinians.
i know you cannot tell me who to listen to but I am asking you to provide the names of people I can listen to (if I so wish) who are not hypocrites. thanks
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 01:03:53 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 11:23:41 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:55:47 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 09:37:47 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 09:27:25 AMthomasmullen who should we listen to von leyen, Martin, Varadkar, McDonald, Biden, Trump, Zelensky, Putin, Boris, Lindsey Graham.. that's not a hypocrite.
Don't listen to any of them if you don't want to but just be sure to include Clare Daly on your list.
the question was who should we listen to?
I can't tell you who you should listen to PHP. All I can tell you is whoever you're listening to - listen to what they're saying and not saying on other similar issues in the world.
Especially similar issues right next door to the conflict they are so passionate about, e.g. indiscriminate murder of thousands of civilians in Syria, including Palestinians.
i know you cannot tell me who to listen to but I am asking you to provide the names of people I can listen to (if I so wish) who are not hypocrites. thanks
Ah now, surely you're not expecting me to do your research for you, are you PHP?
I've given you enough pointers, so off you go now, there's a good chap.
Padraighenrypearse
Go to profile button on top left of screen, ignore list and then add that lad. You will feel much better.
A friend of mine once told me to not argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. He was right.
It's important to know how the system works
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democracy-middle-east-israel-palestinians/
#AIPAC Vs. #Democracy ... Jewish financial control over key institutions in domestic & #global affairs is a powerful anti-Semitic trope that has historically led to violent scapegoating
The white pkutocratscturn on the Jewish plutocrats. It slways happens. Israel is living on borrowed time.
Quote from: Itchy on January 18, 2024, 06:29:17 PMPadraighenrypearse
Go to profile button on top left of screen, ignore list and then add that lad. You will feel much better.
A friend of mine once told me to not argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. He was right.
might do that, I am not sure why he refuses to answer. It would require a huge about of research I think to find these resources, checking consistency of opinions across different conflicts
etc. and there is a fellow poster who already has this info but refuses to share.
Itchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2024, 06:42:06 PMIt's important to know how the system works
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democracy-middle-east-israel-palestinians/
#AIPAC Vs. #Democracy ... Jewish financial control over key institutions in domestic & #global affairs is a powerful anti-Semitic trope that has historically led to violent scapegoating
The white pkutocratscturn on the Jewish plutocrats. It slways happens. Israel is living on borrowed time.
Seafoid, I don't share your optimism for the demise of Zionism - as posted above I think the world will continue to turn a blind eye - how do you see things changing?
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:32:18 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
You steadfastly refuse to comment on her shortcomings. Is she a hypocrite or not?
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:38:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:32:18 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
You steadfastly refuse to comment on her shortcomings. Is she a hypocrite or not?
I am on record as saying I find the Syrian conflict very difficult to follow, there are so many factions etc. to it. so I am not really familiar with the conflict.
I dont think Clare Daly supports suicide bombings but Palestinians have used these in the past. by supporting the palestinan cause does not equate to supporting all their actions.
I don't follow her every word and actions. I sure she holds some hypoctical views but again I don't know the information she has or the logic she is using to arrive at her positions.
clare dalys views are her own, I will echo the ones I agree with and ignore the one I disagree with. I am. more interested in what they say about the subject I am reading about then going through back catalogues to find other stuff I disagree with or know nothing about.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:38:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:32:18 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
You steadfastly refuse to comment on her shortcomings. Is she a hypocrite or not?
OK I'll have a go.
Clare Daly is a hypocrite.
Now that we've put that that one put to bed...can you please tell us who should we be listening to in relation to this topic?
Quote from: Franko on January 18, 2024, 09:40:57 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:38:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:32:18 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
You steadfastly refuse to comment on her shortcomings. Is she a hypocrite or not?
OK I'll have a go.
Clare Daly is a hypocrite.
Now that we've put that that one put to bed...can you please tell us who should we be listening to in relation to this topic?
Not Claire Daly for sure, her and Wallace are obviously in the pay of the kremlin, useful paid up Kremlin idiots. They will never criticize Hamas, Assad, Iran, Russia, Nth Korea or China.
Quote from: Main Street on January 18, 2024, 09:53:04 PMQuote from: Franko on January 18, 2024, 09:40:57 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:38:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:32:18 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
You steadfastly refuse to comment on her shortcomings. Is she a hypocrite or not?
OK I'll have a go.
Clare Daly is a hypocrite.
Now that we've put that that one put to bed...can you please tell us who should we be listening to in relation to this topic?
Not Claire Daly for sure, her and Wallace are obviously in the pay of the kremlin, useful paid up Kremlin idiots. They will never criticize Hamas, Assad, Iran, Russia, Nth Korea or China.
except she has critised Russia, just does not support for NATO and war.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 10:00:43 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 18, 2024, 09:53:04 PMQuote from: Franko on January 18, 2024, 09:40:57 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:38:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:32:18 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
You steadfastly refuse to comment on her shortcomings. Is she a hypocrite or not?
OK I'll have a go.
Clare Daly is a hypocrite.
Now that we've put that that one put to bed...can you please tell us who should we be listening to in relation to this topic?
Not Claire Daly for sure, her and Wallace are obviously in the pay of the kremlin, useful paid up Kremlin idiots. They will never criticize Hamas, Assad, Iran, Russia, Nth Korea or China.
except she has critised Russia, just does not support for NATO and war.
Yes as per kremlin speak, Russia had to invade Ukraine because of Nato or was it Nazi Ukranians?
Whatever, Claire spouts kremlin speak word for word.
'I condemn the invasion of Ukraine but Nato made me do it ' ::)
She and Mick are devoid of intellect and rationality, both Euro mp lickspittles when it comes to to anything Hamas,Assad, China, Iran, Nth Korea and Kremlin.
Quote from: Main Street on January 18, 2024, 10:33:07 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 10:00:43 PMQuote from: Main Street on January 18, 2024, 09:53:04 PMQuote from: Franko on January 18, 2024, 09:40:57 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:38:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:32:18 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
You steadfastly refuse to comment on her shortcomings. Is she a hypocrite or not?
OK I'll have a go.
Clare Daly is a hypocrite.
Now that we've put that that one put to bed...can you please tell us who should we be listening to in relation to this topic?
Not Claire Daly for sure, her and Wallace are obviously in the pay of the kremlin, useful paid up Kremlin idiots. They will never criticize Hamas, Assad, Iran, Russia, Nth Korea or China.
except she has critised Russia, just does not support for NATO and war.
Yes as per kremlin speak, Russia had to invade Ukraine because of Nato or was it Nazi Ukranians?
Whatever, Claire spouts kremlin speak word for word.
'I condemn the invasion of Ukraine but Nato made me do it ' ::)
She and Mick are devoid of intellect and rationality, both Euro mp lickspittles when it comes to to anything Hamas,Assad, China, Iran, Nth Korea and Kremlin.
no, there initial statement was very clear, I've posted it numerous times.
I unequivocally supported the sections of the resolution which condemn Russia's war of aggression and call on the Russian Federation to immediately terminate all military activities in Ukraine, unconditionally withdraw its forces, and fully respect Ukraine's territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence. I express my undivided solidarity with the ordinary people of Ukraine and call for urgent diplomatic efforts to secure a ceasefire, for negotiations to end the conflict and the withdrawal of Russian military forces.
The decision by Russia to abandon diplomacy and invade Ukraine is contrary to international law. The sole responsibility for this is borne by President Vladimir Putin.
Quote from: Main Street on January 18, 2024, 09:53:04 PMQuote from: Franko on January 18, 2024, 09:40:57 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:38:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:32:18 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
You steadfastly refuse to comment on her shortcomings. Is she a hypocrite or not?
OK I'll have a go.
Clare Daly is a hypocrite.
Now that we've put that that one put to bed...can you please tell us who should we be listening to in relation to this topic?
Not Claire Daly for sure, her and Wallace are obviously in the pay of the kremlin, useful paid up Kremlin idiots. They will never criticize Hamas, Assad, Iran, Russia, Nth Korea or China.
;D ;D
Yeah every twat with a keyboard seems to know who we shouldn't listen to
The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
Back on topic - Netenyahu stating 2 state is not a solution.. no surprise for anyone who has seen what the Israelis have been doing since Oslo but will it be the wake up call for the West that their 2 state dream will only work if apartheid Israel is dismantled.
He's been boasting about blocking the 2 state solution for a good while now.
https://www.amazon.com/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinkable/dp/1414333080
I read this book over Christmas. The Israeli Intelligence flipped the son of one of Hamas' founders
I find it very hard to believe they had no advance warning of the Oct 7th attacks. Hamas is/was riddled with informers
They had advance warning that something was in the works, like the US did about 9/11. But, like the US, they didn't take it seriously enough.
houthis promise safe passage for Russian and Chinese ships
A senior Houthi official has promised safe passage for Russian and Chinese vessels through the Red Sea, where the Iran-backed Yemeni militant group has been carrying out attacks on commercial ships in solidarity with Palestinians in Gaza.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 11:01:51 PMThe background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
Ahahaha Putin wanted. So Putin should get? Have a listen to yourself. Parroting Russian propaganda verbatim, just like Clare Daly.
How about democratically elected governments of sovereign countries wanted to join a military alliance so they don't get bullied and invaded by Russia. NATO could never threaten Russia, nuclear weapons anyone? NATO only threatens Russia's ability to dominate its neighbours, once they are on the inside. Russia's invasion of Ukraine ended up with more NATO on Russia's border but Russia doesn't really care cause it's all a fig leaf anyway. Russia doesn't recognise Ukraine as an independent country and never have and would only ever tolerate a client state there, as in Belarus.
Putin's demands re. NATO were something that he knew were never going to happen so it wasn't a serious proposal. Roll back to 1997? What a joke. Typical Russian 'negotiatons', while they build up their invasion force on the border of Ukraine. Cos Russians don't lie do they PHP? Remember when they said they weren't going to invade, right up to the point they invaded. Liars.
As for Clare Daly, yeah she she came out with the beautiful condemnation blaming Russia for the invasion..out one side of her mouth. And has done nothing but parrot the same rubbish as yourself out the other side since. Completely disingenuous. Poor old Russia, always forced into one of its invasion, murder, looting, bombing, raping and deporting sprees. Can't believe anyone falls for their shite, never mind spreading it on their behalf. Sickening.
Anyway back on topic etc etc
Oh look it's NATO aggressor country Germany threatening Russia..
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rferl.org/amp/russia_germany_nord_stream_pipeline/24384263.html
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 07:54:24 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 11:01:51 PMThe background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
Ahahaha Putin wanted. So Putin should get? Have a listen to yourself. Parroting Russian propaganda verbatim, just like Clare Daly.
How about democratically elected governments of sovereign countries wanted to join a military alliance so they don't get bullied and invaded by Russia. NATO could never threaten Russia, nuclear weapons anyone? NATO only threatens Russia's ability to dominate its neighbours, once they are on the inside. Russia's invasion of Ukraine ended up with more NATO on Russia's border but Russia doesn't really care cause it's all a fig leaf anyway. Russia doesn't recognise Ukraine as an independent country and never have and would only ever tolerate a client state there, as in Belarus.
Putin's demands re. NATO were something that he knew were never going to happen so it wasn't a serious proposal. Roll back to 1997? What a joke. Typical Russian 'negotiatons', while they build up their invasion force on the border of Ukraine. Cos Russians don't lie do they PHP? Remember when they said they weren't going to invade, right up to the point they invaded. Liars.
As for Clare Daly, yeah she she came out with the beautiful condemnation blaming Russia for the invasion..out one side of her mouth. And has done nothing but parrot the same rubbish as yourself out the other side since. Completely disingenuous. Poor old Russia, always forced into one of its invasion, murder, looting, bombing, raping and deporting sprees. Can't believe anyone falls for their shite, never mind spreading it on their behalf. Sickening.
Anyway back on topic etc etc
I just quoted the head of Nato and quoted Daly to counter Main Street comments.. no one said Russia were forced on here. but Russia is evil, Hamas is evil, is simple minded stuff.
we are all still waiting on yoi to provide analysis who aren't hypocrites.
Quote from: whitey on January 19, 2024, 12:43:01 AMhttps://www.amazon.com/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinkable/dp/1414333080
I read this book over Christmas. The Israeli Intelligence flipped the son of one of Hamas' founders
I find it very hard to believe they had no advance warning of the Oct 7th attacks. Hamas is/was riddled with informers
it becomes harder to get informers when a huge percent of Hamas are orphans, Israel has no leverage to treaten their families.
https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1747948629371879801?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 08:56:38 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 07:54:24 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 11:01:51 PMThe background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
Ahahaha Putin wanted. So Putin should get? Have a listen to yourself. Parroting Russian propaganda verbatim, just like Clare Daly.
How about democratically elected governments of sovereign countries wanted to join a military alliance so they don't get bullied and invaded by Russia. NATO could never threaten Russia, nuclear weapons anyone? NATO only threatens Russia's ability to dominate its neighbours, once they are on the inside. Russia's invasion of Ukraine ended up with more NATO on Russia's border but Russia doesn't really care cause it's all a fig leaf anyway. Russia doesn't recognise Ukraine as an independent country and never have and would only ever tolerate a client state there, as in Belarus.
Putin's demands re. NATO were something that he knew were never going to happen so it wasn't a serious proposal. Roll back to 1997? What a joke. Typical Russian 'negotiatons', while they build up their invasion force on the border of Ukraine. Cos Russians don't lie do they PHP? Remember when they said they weren't going to invade, right up to the point they invaded. Liars.
As for Clare Daly, yeah she she came out with the beautiful condemnation blaming Russia for the invasion..out one side of her mouth. And has done nothing but parrot the same rubbish as yourself out the other side since. Completely disingenuous. Poor old Russia, always forced into one of its invasion, murder, looting, bombing, raping and deporting sprees. Can't believe anyone falls for their shite, never mind spreading it on their behalf. Sickening.
Anyway back on topic etc etc
I just quoted the head of Nato and quoted Daly to counter Main Street comments.. no one said Russia were forced on here. but Russia is evil, Hamas is evil, is simple minded stuff.
we are all still waiting on yoi to provide analysis who aren't hypocrites.
You didn't counter MainStreet though did you PHP. NATO is a fig leaf and Clare Daly speaks out both sides of her mouth.
Not a single reason Russia gave for their invasion stands up to even basic scrutiny. Doesn't stop it being endlessly parroted by Russia's useful western idiots though.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 09:20:28 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 08:56:38 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 07:54:24 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 11:01:51 PMThe background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
Ahahaha Putin wanted. So Putin should get? Have a listen to yourself. Parroting Russian propaganda verbatim, just like Clare Daly.
How about democratically elected governments of sovereign countries wanted to join a military alliance so they don't get bullied and invaded by Russia. NATO could never threaten Russia, nuclear weapons anyone? NATO only threatens Russia's ability to dominate its neighbours, once they are on the inside. Russia's invasion of Ukraine ended up with more NATO on Russia's border but Russia doesn't really care cause it's all a fig leaf anyway. Russia doesn't recognise Ukraine as an independent country and never have and would only ever tolerate a client state there, as in Belarus.
Putin's demands re. NATO were something that he knew were never going to happen so it wasn't a serious proposal. Roll back to 1997? What a joke. Typical Russian 'negotiatons', while they build up their invasion force on the border of Ukraine. Cos Russians don't lie do they PHP? Remember when they said they weren't going to invade, right up to the point they invaded. Liars.
As for Clare Daly, yeah she she came out with the beautiful condemnation blaming Russia for the invasion..out one side of her mouth. And has done nothing but parrot the same rubbish as yourself out the other side since. Completely disingenuous. Poor old Russia, always forced into one of its invasion, murder, looting, bombing, raping and deporting sprees. Can't believe anyone falls for their shite, never mind spreading it on their behalf. Sickening.
Anyway back on topic etc etc
I just quoted the head of Nato and quoted Daly to counter Main Street comments.. no one said Russia were forced on here. but Russia is evil, Hamas is evil, is simple minded stuff.
we are all still waiting on yoi to provide analysis who aren't hypocrites.
You didn't counter MainStreet though did you PHP. NATO is a fig leaf and Clare Daly speaks out both sides of her mouth.
Not a single reason Russia gave for their invasion stands up to even basic scrutiny. Doesn't stop it being endlessly parroted by Russia's useful western idiots though.
I did,
QuoteThey will never criticize Hamas, Assad, Iran, Russia, Nth Korea or China
.
I provided a statement to show Daly did criticize.
QuoteYes as per kremlin speak, Russia had to invade Ukraine because of Nato
The head of Nato said
QuoteSo he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders
Nato are also saying that is a reason Russia went to war.
Don't bother arguing it not criticism, because if she didn't want to say anything negative about Russia than she could. Equally don't bother listing reasons for Russians invasion, I was showing that that comment isn't Kremlin speak, Nato also said it.
It is not a broad review of Daly or Russia reasons for the invasion. If Main Street had said Daly rarely criticizes Russia or when critising Russia always follows it with criticism of the West. I wouldn't have commented.
Now any chance you can let everyone know the analysises/commentator that are not hypocrites.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 09:47:55 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 09:20:28 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 08:56:38 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 07:54:24 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 11:01:51 PMThe background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
Ahahaha Putin wanted. So Putin should get? Have a listen to yourself. Parroting Russian propaganda verbatim, just like Clare Daly.
How about democratically elected governments of sovereign countries wanted to join a military alliance so they don't get bullied and invaded by Russia. NATO could never threaten Russia, nuclear weapons anyone? NATO only threatens Russia's ability to dominate its neighbours, once they are on the inside. Russia's invasion of Ukraine ended up with more NATO on Russia's border but Russia doesn't really care cause it's all a fig leaf anyway. Russia doesn't recognise Ukraine as an independent country and never have and would only ever tolerate a client state there, as in Belarus.
Putin's demands re. NATO were something that he knew were never going to happen so it wasn't a serious proposal. Roll back to 1997? What a joke. Typical Russian 'negotiatons', while they build up their invasion force on the border of Ukraine. Cos Russians don't lie do they PHP? Remember when they said they weren't going to invade, right up to the point they invaded. Liars.
As for Clare Daly, yeah she she came out with the beautiful condemnation blaming Russia for the invasion..out one side of her mouth. And has done nothing but parrot the same rubbish as yourself out the other side since. Completely disingenuous. Poor old Russia, always forced into one of its invasion, murder, looting, bombing, raping and deporting sprees. Can't believe anyone falls for their shite, never mind spreading it on their behalf. Sickening.
Anyway back on topic etc etc
I just quoted the head of Nato and quoted Daly to counter Main Street comments.. no one said Russia were forced on here. but Russia is evil, Hamas is evil, is simple minded stuff.
we are all still waiting on yoi to provide analysis who aren't hypocrites.
You didn't counter MainStreet though did you PHP. NATO is a fig leaf and Clare Daly speaks out both sides of her mouth.
Not a single reason Russia gave for their invasion stands up to even basic scrutiny. Doesn't stop it being endlessly parroted by Russia's useful western idiots though.
I did,
QuoteThey will never criticize Hamas, Assad, Iran, Russia, Nth Korea or China
.
I provided a statement to show Daly did criticize.
QuoteYes as per kremlin speak, Russia had to invade Ukraine because of Nato
The head of Nato said QuoteSo he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders
Nato are also saying that is a reason Russia went to war.
Don't bother arguing it not criticism, because if she didn't want to say anything negative about Russia than she could. Equally don't bother listing reasons for Russians invasion, I was showing that that comment isn't Kremlin speak, Nato also said it.
It is not a broad review of Daly or Russia reasons for the invasion. If Main Street had said Daly rarely criticizes Russia or when critising Russia always follows it with criticism of the West. I wouldn't have commented.
Now any chance you can let everyone know the analysises/commentator that are not hypocrites.
So Daly criticises Russia in one breath and excuses them the next. That's in keeping with her hypocrisy, nothing new there.
As for Stoltenberg's remarks, yes, Russia didn't want Ukraine joining NATO. Why? For the reasons I've outlined above, it would signal the end of their ability to bully and intimidate and ultimately invade if they can't have a puppet in power. NATO is only a threat to Russia's revanchist ambitions. That's what I mean when I say it's a fig leaf. NATO is no threat to Russia.
NATO has been on Russia's border since 1999 - Poland, and Baltics 2004. When is the big invasion coming PHP?
NATO won't even give Ukraine ATACMs or Taurus missiles such is their fear of escalation, yet somehow we're supposed to believe Russia when they say they're intimidated by NATO expansion. Yes they don't want countries to join but not for the reasons they state.
tangents, tangents, tangents, moving goalpost and points raised that have nothing do with my narrow exchange with Main Street but still no answer to the one question a few posters have ask you to provide..
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 19, 2024, 12:50:11 AMThey had advance warning that something was in the works, like the US did about 9/11. But, like the US, they didn't take it seriously enough.
Didn't take it seriously enough, or let it happen?
Quote from: Franko on January 18, 2024, 09:40:57 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:38:45 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:32:18 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:29:14 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 18, 2024, 07:20:29 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 18, 2024, 07:14:40 PMItchy and PHP,
Glad we're all on the same page regarding your heroine Clare Daly, no arguments from either of you there regarding her hypocrisy. She only gets upset when Israel kills Palestinians, not Bashar Al Assad.
Makes you wonder, does she really care about Palestinians? What sort of a person can be confronted with the images of the civilians killed by Assad and not be moved? What kind of person is that?
i wonder more about you. holier than thou attitude..
I think perhaps you should wonder more about Clare Daly. I'm not an MEP representing Ireland in Europe. Listen to what she says about the goings on in China for example.
you are very focused on Daly for some reason we know your thoughts on her, and you advised us to look at other sources...but cannot provide any!!!
there are a lot worst MEPs in Europe and from Ireland.
You steadfastly refuse to comment on her shortcomings. Is she a hypocrite or not?
OK I'll have a go.
Clare Daly is a hypocrite.
Now that we've put that that one put to bed...can you please tell us who should we be listening to in relation to this topic?
Crickets.....
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 10:42:26 AMtangents, tangents, tangents, moving goalpost and points raised that have nothing do with my narrow exchange with Main Street but still no answer to the one question a few posters have ask you to provide..
No goalposts have been moved by me, my points about NATO and Russia's BS reasons for concern about NATO stand.
Ah yes, yourself and one other have asked and I have already answered that I won't be doing your research for you (your favourite response) - you know the definition of hypocrisy, and now have St. Clare of Hypocrisa as a fine example. Off you go then, the internet is a big place.
As an aside, I find it rather telling that pointing out Daly's glaring hypocrisy results in a form of whataboutery from you and one other. When you can't defend the indefensible you scream 'whatabout'!
Just up the road from Gaza are cities in Syria with neighbourhoods that look just like Gaza does now, having had bombs dropped on them. Palestinians murdered there by those bombs (among others).
One might conclude that St. Clare of Hypocrisia doesn't care about dead Palestinians, only who is killing them. They're just paper dolls to her in her anti-US, anti-western crusade. In fact it's not just Clare, I can't recall of any Irish pro-Palestinian campaigner who ever highlighted Assad's Palestinian victims. Do you know of any PHP? Even a single one? Can you maybe research it for me?
p.s. Franko those crickets are the sound of someone doing something else.
your points might stand but have nothing to do with my response to Main street. My points were to show he was incorrect not anything further and certainly not to get in a russia/nato/Ukraine debate on this thread.
my 'do you own research' remark was a direct response to someone going to the bother of goggling the German aid to Palestine and then asking me to google irish aid to Palestine and not doing it themselves.
You called Clare a hypocrite but won't provide any sources who are not hypocrites. I have never asked you to do your own research, I've ask one question you refuse to answer. at this stage I can only conclude you don't have an answer.
there was Palestinians factions on both sides of the Syria conflict. I have stated numerous times I am not an expert on that conflict due to numerous of different factions involved and I found it impossible to get a deep understanding of it.
I do know why the Palestines are still in Syria because the west has not adhered to international law and allowed for their right of return.
I am taking the advise of Itchy now and ignoring.
How Ireland works: Micheal Martin given an opinion piece in the biggest National Paper to explain away his inaction on Gaza.
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/micheal-martin-ireland-will-rigorously-examine-un-genocide-case-against-israel-before-intervening/a363669127.html
First 2 paragraphs
Day after day, we are seeing the evidence on our TV screens and social media feeds of horrific civilian deaths, including children, mass displacement and destruction, and entirely inadequate access for the UN and international organisations to provide vital humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza.
This is not acceptable. It cannot continue. The brutality of the terrorist attack by Hamas in Israel on October 7 and the continued indiscriminate rocket fire by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups into Israel cannot justify the horrifying impact on Gaza's civilians of Israel's military operation.
People are "dying" on tv screen (I assume it must be from some disease as there is no mention of them being killed, bombed or shot)
However, in the 2nd paragraph we see that Hamas are Terrorists, attacked Israel and fire rockets indiscriminately. Micheal almost grew a pair then when he says Israel cannot justify the impact. So close, he almost said Israel cannot justify targeting civilians, hospitals, schools, universities. Oh well, he is a balless goon at the end of the day.
The rest of his article is just waffle about why he hasn't intervened on the ICJ. But fair play to the Indo for giving this cretin a soapbox.
Quote from: Itchy on January 19, 2024, 12:58:15 PMHow Ireland works: Micheal Martin given an opinion piece in the biggest National Paper to explain away his inaction on Gaza.
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/micheal-martin-ireland-will-rigorously-examine-un-genocide-case-against-israel-before-intervening/a363669127.html
First 2 paragraphs
Day after day, we are seeing the evidence on our TV screens and social media feeds of horrific civilian deaths, including children, mass displacement and destruction, and entirely inadequate access for the UN and international organisations to provide vital humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza.
This is not acceptable. It cannot continue. The brutality of the terrorist attack by Hamas in Israel on October 7 and the continued indiscriminate rocket fire by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups into Israel cannot justify the horrifying impact on Gaza's civilians of Israel's military operation.
People are "dying" on tv screen (I assume it must be from some disease as there is no mention of them being killed, bombed or shot)
However, in the 2nd paragraph we see that Hamas are Terrorists, attacked Israel and fire rockets indiscriminately. Micheal almost grew a pair then when he says Israel cannot justify the impact. So close, he almost said Israel cannot justify targeting civilians, hospitals, schools, universities. Oh well, he is a balless goon at the end of the day.
The rest of his article is just waffle about why he hasn't intervened on the ICJ. But fair play to the Indo for giving this cretin a soapbox.
a Coward using weasel words... a hypocrite some might say 🤔
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 12:08:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 10:42:26 AMtangents, tangents, tangents, moving goalpost and points raised that have nothing do with my narrow exchange with Main Street but still no answer to the one question a few posters have ask you to provide..
No goalposts have been moved by me, my points about NATO and Russia's BS reasons for concern about NATO stand.
Ah yes, yourself and one other have asked and I have already answered that I won't be doing your research for you (your favourite response) - you know the definition of hypocrisy, and now have St. Clare of Hypocrisa as a fine example. Off you go then, the internet is a big place.
As an aside, I find it rather telling that pointing out Daly's glaring hypocrisy results in a form of whataboutery from you and one other. When you can't defend the indefensible you scream 'whatabout'!
Just up the road from Gaza are cities in Syria with neighbourhoods that look just like Gaza does now, having had bombs dropped on them. Palestinians murdered there by those bombs (among others).
One might conclude that St. Clare of Hypocrisia doesn't care about dead Palestinians, only who is killing them. They're just paper dolls to her in her anti-US, anti-western crusade. In fact it's not just Clare, I can't recall of any Irish pro-Palestinian campaigner who ever highlighted Assad's Palestinian victims. Do you know of any PHP? Even a single one? Can you maybe research it for me?
p.s. Franko those crickets are the sound of someone doing something else.
Possibly it is.
Could be the sound of an internet blowhard, desperately trying to spoof his way out of a corner which he's painted himself into.
Meanwhile, my research has led me to conclude that each and every political figure speaking out on this issue holds hypocritical views to some extent and therefore all viewpoints must be judged accordingly.
This level of nuance seems to evade Uncle Tom Mullan
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 12:56:28 PMyour points might stand but have nothing to do with my response to Main street. My points were to show he was incorrect not anything further and certainly not to get in a russia/nato/Ukraine debate on this thread.
my 'do you own research' remark was a direct response to someone going to the bother of goggling the German aid to Palestine and then asking me to google irish aid to Palestine and not doing it themselves.
You called Clare a hypocrite but won't provide any sources who are not hypocrites. I have never asked you to do your own research, I've ask one question you refuse to answer. at this stage I can only conclude you don't have an answer.
there was Palestinians factions on both sides of the Syria conflict. I have stated numerous times I am not an expert on that conflict due to numerous of different factions involved and I found it impossible to get a deep understanding of it.
I do know why the Palestines are still in Syria because the west has not adhered to international law and allowed for their right of return.
I am taking the advise of Itchy now and ignoring.
I'm talking about Palestinian civilians in Syria PHP. Civilians, not factions. Are they fair game if it's Assad directing the bombs?
If you don't answer that's fine, I'll assume you're ignoring, continue on in your echo chamber with Itchy et al.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 01:16:16 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 12:56:28 PMyour points might stand but have nothing to do with my response to Main street. My points were to show he was incorrect not anything further and certainly not to get in a russia/nato/Ukraine debate on this thread.
my 'do you own research' remark was a direct response to someone going to the bother of goggling the German aid to Palestine and then asking me to google irish aid to Palestine and not doing it themselves.
You called Clare a hypocrite but won't provide any sources who are not hypocrites. I have never asked you to do your own research, I've ask one question you refuse to answer. at this stage I can only conclude you don't have an answer.
there was Palestinians factions on both sides of the Syria conflict. I have stated numerous times I am not an expert on that conflict due to numerous of different factions involved and I found it impossible to get a deep understanding of it.
I do know why the Palestines are still in Syria because the west has not adhered to international law and allowed for their right of return.
I am taking the advise of Itchy now and ignoring.
I'm talking about Palestinian civilians in Syria PHP. Civilians, not factions. Are they fair game if it's Assad directing the bombs?
If you don't answer that's fine, I'll assume you're ignoring, continue on in your echo chamber with Itchy et al.
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2024, 01:13:49 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 12:08:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 10:42:26 AMtangents, tangents, tangents, moving goalpost and points raised that have nothing do with my narrow exchange with Main Street but still no answer to the one question a few posters have ask you to provide..
No goalposts have been moved by me, my points about NATO and Russia's BS reasons for concern about NATO stand.
Ah yes, yourself and one other have asked and I have already answered that I won't be doing your research for you (your favourite response) - you know the definition of hypocrisy, and now have St. Clare of Hypocrisa as a fine example. Off you go then, the internet is a big place.
As an aside, I find it rather telling that pointing out Daly's glaring hypocrisy results in a form of whataboutery from you and one other. When you can't defend the indefensible you scream 'whatabout'!
Just up the road from Gaza are cities in Syria with neighbourhoods that look just like Gaza does now, having had bombs dropped on them. Palestinians murdered there by those bombs (among others).
One might conclude that St. Clare of Hypocrisia doesn't care about dead Palestinians, only who is killing them. They're just paper dolls to her in her anti-US, anti-western crusade. In fact it's not just Clare, I can't recall of any Irish pro-Palestinian campaigner who ever highlighted Assad's Palestinian victims. Do you know of any PHP? Even a single one? Can you maybe research it for me?
p.s. Franko those crickets are the sound of someone doing something else.
Possibly it is.
Could be the sound of an internet blowhard, desperately trying to spoof his way out of a corner which he's painted himself into.
Meanwhile, my research has led me to conclude that each and every political figure speaking out on this issue holds hypocritical views to some extent and therefore all viewpoints must be judged accordingly.
This level of nuance seems to evade Uncle Tom Mullan
Calling Clare Daly a hypocrite is painting yourself into a corner is it Franko?
You've even said yourself she is a hypocrite. It's not as if it's something small, she shills for Syria, Russia, Iran and China ffs.
Edit: I just noticed the 'Uncle' Tom - oh do please elaborate on that one..
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 01:19:12 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 01:16:16 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 12:56:28 PMyour points might stand but have nothing to do with my response to Main street. My points were to show he was incorrect not anything further and certainly not to get in a russia/nato/Ukraine debate on this thread.
my 'do you own research' remark was a direct response to someone going to the bother of goggling the German aid to Palestine and then asking me to google irish aid to Palestine and not doing it themselves.
You called Clare a hypocrite but won't provide any sources who are not hypocrites. I have never asked you to do your own research, I've ask one question you refuse to answer. at this stage I can only conclude you don't have an answer.
there was Palestinians factions on both sides of the Syria conflict. I have stated numerous times I am not an expert on that conflict due to numerous of different factions involved and I found it impossible to get a deep understanding of it.
I do know why the Palestines are still in Syria because the west has not adhered to international law and allowed for their right of return.
I am taking the advise of Itchy now and ignoring.
I'm talking about Palestinian civilians in Syria PHP. Civilians, not factions. Are they fair game if it's Assad directing the bombs?
If you don't answer that's fine, I'll assume you're ignoring, continue on in your echo chamber with Itchy et al.
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2024, 01:13:49 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 19, 2024, 12:08:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 10:42:26 AMtangents, tangents, tangents, moving goalpost and points raised that have nothing do with my narrow exchange with Main Street but still no answer to the one question a few posters have ask you to provide..
No goalposts have been moved by me, my points about NATO and Russia's BS reasons for concern about NATO stand.
Ah yes, yourself and one other have asked and I have already answered that I won't be doing your research for you (your favourite response) - you know the definition of hypocrisy, and now have St. Clare of Hypocrisa as a fine example. Off you go then, the internet is a big place.
As an aside, I find it rather telling that pointing out Daly's glaring hypocrisy results in a form of whataboutery from you and one other. When you can't defend the indefensible you scream 'whatabout'!
Just up the road from Gaza are cities in Syria with neighbourhoods that look just like Gaza does now, having had bombs dropped on them. Palestinians murdered there by those bombs (among others).
One might conclude that St. Clare of Hypocrisia doesn't care about dead Palestinians, only who is killing them. They're just paper dolls to her in her anti-US, anti-western crusade. In fact it's not just Clare, I can't recall of any Irish pro-Palestinian campaigner who ever highlighted Assad's Palestinian victims. Do you know of any PHP? Even a single one? Can you maybe research it for me?
p.s. Franko those crickets are the sound of someone doing something else.
Possibly it is.
Could be the sound of an internet blowhard, desperately trying to spoof his way out of a corner which he's painted himself into.
Meanwhile, my research has led me to conclude that each and every political figure speaking out on this issue holds hypocritical views to some extent and therefore all viewpoints must be judged accordingly.
This level of nuance seems to evade Uncle Tom Mullan
Calling Clare Daly a hypocrite is painting yourself into a corner is it Franko?
You've even said yourself she is a hypocrite. It's not as if it's something small, she shills for Syria, Russia, Iran and China ffs.
Edit: I just noticed the 'Uncle' Tom - oh do please elaborate on that one..
No point going over it all again Tom, it's there for all to see
For the second bit - I can't be arsed but as someone once said - "Off you go then, the internet is a big place"
Bloody hell lads this has gotten boring. maybe take it to DMs or have your own thread eh?
"No point going over it all again Tom, it's there for all to see
For the second bit - I can't be arsed but as someone once said - "Off you go then, the internet is a big place"
Calling Clare Daly a hypocrite and not reacting to PHPs usual 'whataboutery' when he is unable to defend the indefensible is 'painting yourself into a corner'. Sure, no bother lads.
p.s. I know what Uncle Tom means, I just want you to explain how I've become an Uncle Tom for calling Clare Daly a hypocrite or is it calling out Russian propaganda that makes me so?
It's only the internet Tom, don't take personally
You're boring the other posters now, so probably best to leave it there
No hard feelings
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2024, 03:12:32 PMIt's only the internet Tom, don't take personally
You're boring the other posters now, so probably best to leave it there
No hard feelings
I'm not offended, just trying to understand the mindset.
Israel has the same group trauma features as Russia. From WW2 and the Holocaust.
Myths instead of history, brutal violence, reprisal culture, zero empathy,generational effects, outside international law, sadistic leadership, no respect for own people. It cannot be stabilised with a peace deal.
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 09:06:56 AMhttps://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1747948629371879801?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Jennifer has now turned off comments on her tweets due to death threats, after speaking out against a genocide.
https://twitter.com/AmnestyEU/status/1748032047183024547?t=FC7aeEOokU7QO6SeX2VtCQ&s=19
FG MEP voted for this.. along with the majority of MEP.
and to put into context how bad this vote was Eylon Levy is celebrating it.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 01:04:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 19, 2024, 12:58:15 PMHow Ireland works: Micheal Martin given an opinion piece in the biggest National Paper to explain away his inaction on Gaza.
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/micheal-martin-ireland-will-rigorously-examine-un-genocide-case-against-israel-before-intervening/a363669127.html
First 2 paragraphs
Day after day, we are seeing the evidence on our TV screens and social media feeds of horrific civilian deaths, including children, mass displacement and destruction, and entirely inadequate access for the UN and international organisations to provide vital humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza.
This is not acceptable. It cannot continue. The brutality of the terrorist attack by Hamas in Israel on October 7 and the continued indiscriminate rocket fire by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups into Israel cannot justify the horrifying impact on Gaza's civilians of Israel's military operation.
People are "dying" on tv screen (I assume it must be from some disease as there is no mention of them being killed, bombed or shot)
However, in the 2nd paragraph we see that Hamas are Terrorists, attacked Israel and fire rockets indiscriminately. Micheal almost grew a pair then when he says Israel cannot justify the impact. So close, he almost said Israel cannot justify targeting civilians, hospitals, schools, universities. Oh well, he is a balless goon at the end of the day.
The rest of his article is just waffle about why he hasn't intervened on the ICJ. But fair play to the Indo for giving this cretin a soapbox.
a Coward using weasel words... a hypocrite some might say 🤔
Again, anti-FF, anti-FG hypocrisy. Accuse Martin and Varadkar of using weasel words, but Michael D is great fella for using the exact same words! Pure hypocrisy. Those are the three most prominent leaders of this country and they have been totally side by side on their views.
Martin said this in that article:
Hamas actions 'cannot justify the horrifying impact on Gaza's civilians of Israel's military operation'
That's clear and unequivocal.
He also explained exactly what Ireland's position is re the ICJ South Africa v Israel case and likely future direction. It's exactly the right strategy.
You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins.
total and utter bullshit. I am not a member of an political party, I wonder are you?
No one said Higgins is a great fella for using the same words.. but not like you to set a false narrative.
He doesn't have the same power and his words and language are very different to Martin and Varadker. I know you struggle to see the importance of the language used by media/people and the impacts it has but his language/tone is not the same as the cowards. he could do more though.
firstly both of these lads are blocking occupied territories bills. and just this week FG MEPs voted for the recent EU statement critised even by Amnesty.
We should and can side with SA, the excuses keep coming and changing for why we don't side with SA, first it was SA did it so no reason for us to do it, (then others joined) then it was we are part of Europe and we are another bloc, (then German spoke out and now Slovenia joining another ICJ case) now this other crap and process etc.
I shared an article recently where Varadker even questioned if it was a genocide for f**k sake.
They are not leading on this issue in Europe, the irish people are, the Irish government are weak and cowards and hiding behind weasel words.
there are no hamas apologists on this forum only those who support their right to resistence enshrined in international law, but it does your argument some favours to label me and others as some of extremist again when we call for ceasefires and a just resolution to 75 years of occupation. Putting us on the same level as those committing a genocide shows how your opinion should be valued.
Quote from: Hound on January 20, 2024, 07:44:44 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2024, 01:04:11 PMQuote from: Itchy on January 19, 2024, 12:58:15 PMHow Ireland works: Micheal Martin given an opinion piece in the biggest National Paper to explain away his inaction on Gaza.
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/micheal-martin-ireland-will-rigorously-examine-un-genocide-case-against-israel-before-intervening/a363669127.html
First 2 paragraphs
Day after day, we are seeing the evidence on our TV screens and social media feeds of horrific civilian deaths, including children, mass displacement and destruction, and entirely inadequate access for the UN and international organisations to provide vital humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza.
This is not acceptable. It cannot continue. The brutality of the terrorist attack by Hamas in Israel on October 7 and the continued indiscriminate rocket fire by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups into Israel cannot justify the horrifying impact on Gaza's civilians of Israel's military operation.
People are "dying" on tv screen (I assume it must be from some disease as there is no mention of them being killed, bombed or shot)
However, in the 2nd paragraph we see that Hamas are Terrorists, attacked Israel and fire rockets indiscriminately. Micheal almost grew a pair then when he says Israel cannot justify the impact. So close, he almost said Israel cannot justify targeting civilians, hospitals, schools, universities. Oh well, he is a balless goon at the end of the day.
The rest of his article is just waffle about why he hasn't intervened on the ICJ. But fair play to the Indo for giving this cretin a soapbox.
a Coward using weasel words... a hypocrite some might say 🤔
Again, anti-FF, anti-FG hypocrisy. Accuse Martin and Varadkar of using weasel words, but Michael D is great fella for using the exact same words! Pure hypocrisy. Those are the three most prominent leaders of this country and they have been totally side by side on their views.
Martin said this in that article:
Hamas actions 'cannot justify the horrifying impact on Gaza's civilians of Israel's military operation'
That's clear and unequivocal.
He also explained exactly what Ireland's position is re the ICJ South Africa v Israel case and likely future direction. It's exactly the right strategy.
You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins.
Why didn't he say the cause of death of 25k Palestinians was Israel during missiles at them, yet he mentions Hamas firing missiles indiscriminately at Israel. Which is the equivalent of throwing a stone at someone relative to the the fire power Israel have. Only a FF shill could think his words anything but weasel words.
The below link is what Michael D said. He is restricted in what he can say yet his statement is much more hard hitting than cowardly Michael Martin. You'd have to have a poor grasp of English to miss the differences.
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/11/02/horrific-loss-of-life-in-gaza-and-israel-has-to-be-addressed-says-michael-d-higgins/
EU politics is not the Liveline. Taking down Zionism is a long term project. The opposition and Paddy Cosgrave can take positions but the Government needs to take a snooker approach. Actions have to line up with the next one . It is strategic. This is is senior hurling.
Michael D provides the parameters to remind the Europeans who we are. The diplomats do the heavy lifting. At the moment the Germans, the Dutch , VdL and the Yanks are pro genocide.
"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion " Steve Walt
Those forces have to be built.
Even the most brilliant political strategies must ultimately be measured against their outcomes.
Varadkar is not a coward.Neither is Martin.
Ireland will not let the Palestinians down.
we are already letting them down by not joining the ICJ cases and preventing the occupied territories bill.
we are letting them down by not leading in Europe by boycotting an apartheid state.
We are letting them down with the language we use including saying its unhelped to call Israel apartheid Israel but having no issues referring to Hamas a terrorist and not a resistence movement which is acceptable under international law.
We have taken and said much harder hitting statements about other conflicts.
We cannot wait to follow, we must lead. They are cowards in my opinion.
Couple of spot on posts there PHP. Agreed 100%
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2024, 08:56:15 AMEU politics is not the Liveline. Taking down Zionism is a long term project. The opposition and Paddy Cosgrave can take positions but the Government needs to take a snooker approach. Actions have to line up with the next one . It is strategic. Tjis is senior hurling.
Michael D provides the parameters Tto remind thevEuropeans who we are. The diplomats do the heavy lifting. At the moment the Germans, the Dutch , VdL ad the Yanks are pro genocide.
"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion " Steve Walt
Those forces have to be built.
Even the most brilliant political strategies must ultimately be measured against their outcomes.
Varadkar is not a coward.Neither is Martin.
Ireland will not let the Palestinians down.
Wrong I'm afraid. Those two are only interested in their next job - in Europe.
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2024, 08:56:15 AMEU politics is not the Liveline. Taking down Zionism is a long term project. The opposition and Paddy Cosgrave can take positions but the Government needs to take a snooker approach. Actions have to line up with the next one . It is strategic. Tjis is senior hurling.
Michael D provides the parameters Tto remind thevEuropeans who we are. The diplomats do the heavy lifting. At the moment the Germans, the Dutch , VdL ad the Yanks are pro genocide.
"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion " Steve Walt
Those forces have to be built.
Even the most brilliant political strategies must ultimately be measured against their outcomes.
Varadkar is not a coward.Neither is Martin.
Ireland will not let the Palestinians down.
Balanced sensible comments. Nuance and the reality of what the government is up against and the political environment in which they operate is lost on some of the posters here.
"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "
The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 20, 2024, 10:12:43 AM"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "
The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.
that's about it.
If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 20, 2024, 10:15:54 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 20, 2024, 10:12:43 AM"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "
The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.
that's about it.
If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)
What is Michelle's and Rishi's stance?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 20, 2024, 09:08:07 AMwe are already letting them down by not joining the ICJ cases and preventing the occupied territories bill.
we are letting them down by not leading in Europe by boycotting an apartheid state.
We are letting them down with the language we use including saying its unhelped to call Israel apartheid Israel but having no issues referring to Hamas a terrorist and not a resistence movement which is acceptable under international law.
We have taken and said much harder hitting statements about other conflicts.
We cannot wait to follow, we must lead. They are cowards in my opinion.
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2024, 08:56:15 AMEU politics is not the Liveline. Taking down Zionism is a long term project. The opposition and Paddy Cosgrave can take positions but the Government needs to take a snooker approach. Actions have to line up with the next one . It is strategic. Tjis is senior hurling.
Michael D provides the parameters Tto remind thevEuropeans who we are. The diplomats do the heavy lifting. At the moment the Germans, the Dutch , VdL ad the Yanks are pro genocide.
"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion " Steve Walt
Those forces have to be built.
Even the most brilliant political strategies must ultimately be measured against their outcomes.
Varadkar is not a coward.Neither is Martin.
Ireland will not let the Palestinians down.
This is optimistic at best and more fanciful and naive imo.
Israeli position publicly is moving further away from any chance of a Palestinian state, at the same time EU/US/UK is also moving the wrong way too, they are sitting by arming Israel while they commit a genocide.
The US recently voted almost unanimously to say anti zionism is anti semitic, for example. How will this shower even get out of the way so there is a chance at some sort of peace.
Playing politics while a genocide is unfolding in my opinion is cowardly, not even referring to it as genocide is cowardly and it was not like Varadker would be the first to call it what it is.
Similarly, Martin got his photoshoot over in Irsrael and despite numerous human rights groups, including the largest in Israel calling it an Apartheid state, he wouldn't use the term as its unhelpful.
Public opinion is ignored worldwide, so any change there unfortunately is unlikely to make much difference.
Quote from: Hound on January 20, 2024, 07:44:44 AM...but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins.
I know I asked you this before when you last showered praise on Micheal Martin for his response, but didnt get an answer so I'll ask again. Is that the same Micheal Martin who had the Israeli Ambassador as a guest of the FF Ard Fheis? And who took part in a PR photoshoot for the Israelis, standing like an obedient little f**king puppet in an IDF bullet proof vest pointing at a tiny hole in a ceiling, while Gaza was being flattened?
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 20, 2024, 10:15:54 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 20, 2024, 10:12:43 AM"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "
The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.
that's about it.
If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)
I've said all I have to say about Clare Daly.
Actually I was being sarcastic above and I agree with you. Israel is evil, or rather their government, a large section of their population and their Zionist enablers abroad are evil.
What you also won't find me doing is parroting Israeli propaganda on here, dressing it up as context, oversimplification or nuance, like we see from other posters in response to brutal military invasion, complete destruction of cities and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on January 20, 2024, 01:49:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 20, 2024, 10:15:54 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 20, 2024, 10:12:43 AM"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "
The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.
that's about it.
If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)
I've said all I have to say about Clare Daly.
Actually I was being sarcastic above and I agree with you. Israel is evil, or rather their government, a large section of their population and their Zionist enablers abroad are evil.
What you also won't find me doing is parroting Israeli propaganda on here, dressing it up as context, oversimplification or nuance, like we see from other posters in response to brutal military invasion, complete destruction of cities and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians. Is there anyone one here doing that? Be a small minority if so
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 20, 2024, 02:00:36 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 20, 2024, 01:49:36 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 20, 2024, 10:15:54 AMQuote from: ThomasMullan on January 20, 2024, 10:12:43 AM"You can say what you like about the government on other matters, but they are doing more than other EU country for sure, and are trying to persuade more to do more. Yes, the Hamas apologists on here will complain and the Israeli apologists want an about turn, but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins. "
The whole Israel is evil, Hamas is evil is simple minded stuff.
that's about it.
If any of the 3 mentioned had any balls they'd take the Claire Daly stance in that speech which was posted here a few days ago. (I don't want to hear her views on anything else before you bring that up)
I've said all I have to say about Clare Daly.
Actually I was being sarcastic above and I agree with you. Israel is evil, or rather their government, a large section of their population and their Zionist enablers abroad are evil.
What you also won't find me doing is parroting Israeli propaganda on here, dressing it up as context, oversimplification or nuance, like we see from other posters in response to brutal military invasion, complete destruction of cities and indiscriminate slaughter of civilians. Is there anyone one here doing that? Be a small minority if so
Not about Israel, no.
Israel is evil. Group maligant trauma. Digging up graves. Levelling Gaza . Jesus Christ.
I heard the Dail debate on thursday. A woman with a Cavan or Monaghan accent was representing the Govt. The position she repeated was that Ireland will join the pile on at the right moment.
People forget how good our diplomats are at building positions and building alliances with momentum quietly. In 2016 Brexit looked really bad because the North was at risk in terms of a new border and the Brexiters did not care. In 2017 the situation worsened when the DUP propped up the tory minority government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cZe2ihEZO8
The reason why the DUP has not reentered Stormont in 2 years is because our diplomats working on behalf of everyone in the North handed them their Brexit arses on a plate by leveraging American power to put smacht on the Brits and keep the GFA alive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_byygue6gs
So I would hold off on the fire for the moment.
Fair play to the Dub ladies footballers!
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 20, 2024, 06:43:58 PMFair play to the Dub ladies footballers!
What did they do?
Quote from: Snapchap on January 20, 2024, 01:43:23 PMQuote from: Hound on January 20, 2024, 07:44:44 AM...but I'm sure a large majority of Irish people are right behind the stance taken by each of Martin, Varadkar and Higgins.
I know I asked you this before when you last showered praise on Micheal Martin for his response, but didnt get an answer so I'll ask again. Is that the same Micheal Martin who had the Israeli Ambassador as a guest of the FF Ard Fheis? And who took part in a PR photoshoot for the Israelis, standing like an obedient little f**king puppet in an IDF bullet proof vest pointing at a tiny hole in a ceiling, while Gaza was being flattened?
Yeh, that's the fella. But he's like that on all topics, the man has no position nor principles on anything. He waits to see what way the wind is blowing.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/dublin-ladies-footballers-call-palestine-31928889
They are women are have more balls than michael martin
Quote from: AustinPowers on January 20, 2024, 06:45:25 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on January 20, 2024, 06:43:58 PMFair play to the Dub ladies footballers!
What did they do?
Held up a banner calling for a ceasefire.
Won't exactly stop the child murdering War Criminal Netanyahu but fair play to them all the same.
Genuine question
What exactly did Hamas think Israel would do in response to their attack on October 7th (when they raped, murdered, beheaded and burned people alive and took over 100 hostages including newborns and toddlers)
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2024, 07:15:25 PMGenuine question
What exactly did Hamas think Israel would do in response to their attack on October 7th (when they raped, murdered, beheaded and burned people alive and took over 100 hostages including newborns and toddlers)
No evidence of rape, no evidence of beheading (no babies in microwave either if you forgot that).
The burning alive was Israel firing on their own citizens.
I'd say Hamas assumed Israel would do the same thing they did before Oct 7th, murder Palestinians.
Question for you, what did Israel think would happen locking people in a open air prison, denying them basic human rights for decades, killing them and stealing their homes?
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2024, 07:15:25 PMGenuine question
What exactly did Hamas think Israel would do in response to their attack on October 7th (when they raped, murdered, beheaded and burned people alive and took over 100 hostages including newborns and toddlers)
I suppose you supported the Brits here as well.
Do you think Hamas just did that out of the blue?
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2024, 07:15:25 PMGenuine question
What exactly did Hamas think Israel would do in response to their attack on October 7th (when they raped, murdered, beheaded and burned people alive and took over 100 hostages including newborns and toddlers)
What a stupid question.
Quote from: whitey on January 20, 2024, 07:15:25 PMGenuine question
What exactly did Hamas think Israel would do in response to their attack on October 7th (when they raped, murdered, beheaded and burned people alive and took over 100 hostages including newborns and toddlers)
Mad to think the Middle East conflict only began for the very first time on 7th Oct when those crazy Arabs attacked peace loving Israel for no apparent reason that anyone can think of, isn't it?
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2024, 02:27:41 PMIsrael is evil. Group maligant trauma. Digging up graves. Levelling Gaza . Jesus Christ.
I heard the Dail debate on thursday. A woman with a Cavan or Monaghan accent was representing the Govt. The position she repeated was that Ireland will join the pile on at the right moment.
People forget how good our diplomats are at building positions and building alliances with momentum quietly. In 2016 Brexit looked really bad because the North was at risk in terms of a new border and the Brexiters did not care. In 2017 the situation worsened when the DUP propped up the tory minority government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cZe2ihEZO8
The reason why the DUP has not reentered Stormont in 2 years is because our diplomats working on behalf of everyone in the North handed them their Brexit arses on a plate by leveraging American power to put smacht on the Brits and keep the GFA alive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_byygue6gs
So I would hold off on the fire for the moment.
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2024, 02:27:41 PMIsrael is evil. Group maligant trauma. Digging up graves. Levelling Gaza . Jesus Christ.
I heard the Dail debate on thursday. A woman with a Cavan or Monaghan accent was representing the Govt. The position she repeated was that Ireland will join the pile on at the right moment.
People forget how good our diplomats are at building positions and building alliances with momentum quietly. In 2016 Brexit looked really bad because the North was at risk in terms of a new border and the Brexiters did not care. In 2017 the situation worsened when the DUP propped up the tory minority government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cZe2ihEZO8
The reason why the DUP has not reentered Stormont in 2 years is because our diplomats working on behalf of everyone in the North handed them their Brexit arses on a plate by leveraging American power to put smacht on the Brits and keep the GFA alive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_byygue6gs
So I would hold off on the fire for the moment.
The reason the DUP have not gone into Stormont again is they can't handle a SF, nationalist, Catholic woman being the top dog.
That's the reality.
Nothing else.
No winners. Palestinian people have be suffering for 75 years in that region.
How any country has allowed that to happen for so long is guilty of what's currently happening.
People react to how they have been treated, I understand that, not my thing fighting fire with fire, but what options do people have left?
Tactically it's been a major success for Hamas, but the end game is atrocious.
No winners and unfortunately it's sped up the actual game plan
Be thankful that NI UK and Ireland troubles are nowhere near the depths of depravity we see in Gaza.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2024, 07:53:43 PMNo winners. Palestinian people have be suffering for 75 years in that region.
How any country has allowed that to happen for so long is guilty of what's currently happening.
People react to how they have been treated, I understand that, not my thing fighting fire with fire, but what options do people have left?
Tactically it's been a major success for Hamas, but the end game is atrocious.
No winners and unfortunately it's sped up the actual game plan
Be thankful that NI UK and Ireland troubles are nowhere near the depths of depravity we see in Gaza.
It's not the end game, Milltown, any more than Stakeknife or the Omagh bombing were the end game in the North. The end game is when equilibrium is restored. There is no violence-based solution in the North or in Israel/Palestine. Both are about people and fairness.
For the benefit of those at the back who were not paying attention. An EU delegation met Netanyahu to discuss the 2 state solution either today or at the weekend. Netanyahu recently told the world that there would be no Palestinian state. Martin told him that his attitude was appalling.
They got a world pass for 75yrs for things which happened in WW2.Call it world guilt, even though the carnage was actually carried out by extremist German's (IE. Nazis)
Quote from: seafoid on January 22, 2024, 07:37:37 PMFor the benefit of those at the back who were not paying attention. An EU delegation met Netanyahu to discuss the 2 state solution either today or at the weekend. Netanyahu recently told the world that there would be no Palestinian state. Martin told him that his attitude was appalling.
I'm sorry, is this a joke. Did he make Benji stay in at lunch and do lines too.
Benji is on the way out. Gal Eisenkrot is with Benny Gantz's party and he made an important speech on thursday claiming that Benji's plan for Gaza was nuts and that there was no military solution. The Yanks have pressured him to pull out of Gaza and the EU are also dissing him.
Physcopath
Quote from: seafoid on January 22, 2024, 10:11:49 PMBenji is on the way out. Gal Eisenkrot is with Benny Gantz's party and he made an important speech on thursday claiming that Benji's plan for Gaza was nuts and that there was no military solution. The Yanks have pressured him to pull out of Gaza and the EU are also dissing him.
He's a nut job but in fairness that whole nation seem to be psychopaths, ironically only matched by Hitlers Germany. I'm pretty sure history will repeat itself when two generations later the actions of their beloved IDF will viewed on as one of eternal shame. As for the US and Britains contribution words fail me.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on January 23, 2024, 10:40:09 AMPhyscopathQuote from: seafoid on January 22, 2024, 10:11:49 PMBenji is on the way out. Gal Eisenkrot is with Benny Gantz's party and he made an important speech on thursday claiming that Benji's plan for Gaza was nuts and that there was no military solution. The Yanks have pressured him to pull out of Gaza and the EU are also dissing him.
He's a nut job but in fairness that whole nation seem to be psychopaths, ironically only matched by Hitlers Germany. I'm pretty sure history will repeat itself when two generations later the actions of their beloved IDF will viewed on as one of eternal shame. As for the US and Britains contribution words fail me.
I think there difference between short term and long term
Short term the Democrats and the Lab and Tory parties are aligned in a fixed way with Netanyahu who is a fascist. So they will be exposed.
Long term Israel will just get worse because of your point above.
https://nationalinterest.org/commentary/brzezinski-the-syria-crisis-8636
But in the long run, a hostile region like that cannot be policed, even by a nuclear-armed Israel. It will simply do to Israel what some of the wars have done to us on a smaller scale. Attrite it, tire it, fatigue it, demoralize it, cause emigration of the best and the first,
and then some sort of cataclysm at the end which cannot be predicted at this stage because we don't know who will have what by when. And after all, Iran is next door. It might have some nuclear capability. Suppose the Israelis knock it off. What about Pakistan and others? The notion that one can control a region from a very strong and motivated country, but of only six million people, is simply a wild dream.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2024, 08:30:12 PMThey got a world pass for 75yrs for things which happened in WW2.Call it world guilt, even though the carnage was actually carried out by extremist German's (IE. Nazis)
Utter total garbage and I´m not just talking about the misuse of the apostrophe.
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/01/23/government-agrees-that-south-africas-case-against-israel-in-international-court-of-justice-is-valid/
Quote from: seafoid on January 23, 2024, 06:57:23 PMhttps://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/01/23/government-agrees-that-south-africas-case-against-israel-in-international-court-of-justice-is-valid/
Seafood - compare the response to Israel genocide (careful, waiting to see etc) and to Russia Genocide (straight into the tackle, two footed)
You see the difference right?
21 IDF scumbags taken out in single ambush in Gaza on a day 25 of the invaders were killed. Israel is covering up the extent of its losses but it couldn't hide that one. The Palestinian resistance is bleeding the genocidal bastards white in the rubble of their homeland.
Quote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:20:36 PM21 IDF scumbags taken out in single ambush in Gaza on a day 25 of the invaders were killed. Israel is covering up the extent of its losses but it couldn't hide that one. The Palestinian resistance is bleeding the genocidal bastards white in the rubble of their homeland.
That news was on bbc radio, not sure it's being covered up
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 08:24:31 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:20:36 PM21 IDF scumbags taken out in single ambush in Gaza on a day 25 of the invaders were killed. Israel is covering up the extent of its losses but it couldn't hide that one. The Palestinian resistance is bleeding the genocidal bastards white in the rubble of their homeland.
That news was on bbc radio, not sure it's being covered up
Maybe try reading the post.
Quote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:33:35 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 08:24:31 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:20:36 PM21 IDF scumbags taken out in single ambush in Gaza on a day 25 of the invaders were killed. Israel is covering up the extent of its losses but it couldn't hide that one. The Palestinian resistance is bleeding the genocidal bastards white in the rubble of their homeland.
That news was on bbc radio, not sure it's being covered up
Maybe try reading the post.
It sounds like Jenga. A huge result for the Palestinians.
https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2024/0123/1428050-israel-gaza-middle-east/
Quote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:33:35 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 08:24:31 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:20:36 PM21 IDF scumbags taken out in single ambush in Gaza on a day 25 of the invaders were killed. Israel is covering up the extent of its losses but it couldn't hide that one. The Palestinian resistance is bleeding the genocidal bastards white in the rubble of their homeland.
That news was on bbc radio, not sure it's being covered up
Maybe try reading the post.
I did, Israel mustn't be trying to hide it from the bbc.
Have you a link showing where they are trying to hide their losses?
Check out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Chris Hedges
https://twitter.com/KerryBurgess/status/1749889885517820000
Quote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 09:49:07 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Dunno, like to annoy utter pricks who whinged about me upsetting their feelings and got me banned for two weeks. What do you think yourself, Mr Sensitive? Besides, gives us more information about the brave Palestinian resistance against the Zionist Nazi child murdering bastards.
Quote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 11:16:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 09:49:07 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Dunno, like to annoy utter pricks who whinged about me upsetting their feelings and got me banned for two weeks. What do you think yourself, Mr Sensitive? Besides, gives us more information about the brave Palestinian resistance against the Zionist Nazi child murdering bastards.
I think its you that's Mr Sensitive. Also glorifying people getting killed in a war is a bit odd, but I suppose whatever gets you going
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 08:44:46 AMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 11:16:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 09:49:07 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Dunno, like to annoy utter pricks who whinged about me upsetting their feelings and got me banned for two weeks. What do you think yourself, Mr Sensitive? Besides, gives us more information about the brave Palestinian resistance against the Zionist Nazi child murdering bastards.
I think its you that's Mr Sensitive. Also glorifying people getting killed in a war is a bit odd, but I suppose whatever gets you going
What war?
Quote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2024, 11:03:17 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 08:44:46 AMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 11:16:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 09:49:07 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Dunno, like to annoy utter pricks who whinged about me upsetting their feelings and got me banned for two weeks. What do you think yourself, Mr Sensitive? Besides, gives us more information about the brave Palestinian resistance against the Zionist Nazi child murdering bastards.
I think its you that's Mr Sensitive. Also glorifying people getting killed in a war is a bit odd, but I suppose whatever gets you going
What war?
Not getting into any deflection.. but
War is an intense armed conflict between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.
Hamas and those before Hamas and in the West Bank have openly talked about war with Israel and Israel have said the same thing
In a war/conflict/genocide there are no winners
War and genocide studies is an interdisciplinary subject that identifies and analyzes the relationship between war and genocide, as well as the structural foundations of associated conflicts. Disciplines involved may include political science, geography, economics, sociology, international relations, and history.
There is general consensus among scholars that the problems of war and genocide are intimately linked as the two often accompany each other. However, there are varying thoughts and theoretical perspectives on the topic as it continues to be a subject of scholarly analysis and debate
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 11:31:29 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2024, 11:03:17 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 08:44:46 AMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 11:16:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 09:49:07 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Dunno, like to annoy utter pricks who whinged about me upsetting their feelings and got me banned for two weeks. What do you think yourself, Mr Sensitive? Besides, gives us more information about the brave Palestinian resistance against the Zionist Nazi child murdering bastards.
I think its you that's Mr Sensitive. Also glorifying people getting killed in a war is a bit odd, but I suppose whatever gets you going
What war?
Not getting into any deflection.. but
War is an intense armed conflict between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.
Hamas and those before Hamas and in the West Bank have openly talked about war with Israel and Israel have said the same thing
In a war/conflict/genocide there are no winners
War and genocide studies is an interdisciplinary subject that identifies and analyzes the relationship between war and genocide, as well as the structural foundations of associated conflicts. Disciplines involved may include political science, geography, economics, sociology, international relations, and history.
There is general consensus among scholars that the problems of war and genocide are intimately linked as the two often accompany each other. However, there are varying thoughts and theoretical perspectives on the topic as it continues to be a subject of scholarly analysis and debate
Can you give us a few examples to back up your thesis, Milltown?
Genocide is an extreme manifestation of war. After WW2 the world built institutions to prevent genocide in the future. Why have these institutions failed ?
Quote from: seafoid on January 24, 2024, 12:10:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 11:31:29 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2024, 11:03:17 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 08:44:46 AMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 11:16:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 09:49:07 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Dunno, like to annoy utter pricks who whinged about me upsetting their feelings and got me banned for two weeks. What do you think yourself, Mr Sensitive? Besides, gives us more information about the brave Palestinian resistance against the Zionist Nazi child murdering bastards.
I think its you that's Mr Sensitive. Also glorifying people getting killed in a war is a bit odd, but I suppose whatever gets you going
What war?
Not getting into any deflection.. but
War is an intense armed conflict between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.
Hamas and those before Hamas and in the West Bank have openly talked about war with Israel and Israel have said the same thing
In a war/conflict/genocide there are no winners
War and genocide studies is an interdisciplinary subject that identifies and analyzes the relationship between war and genocide, as well as the structural foundations of associated conflicts. Disciplines involved may include political science, geography, economics, sociology, international relations, and history.
There is general consensus among scholars that the problems of war and genocide are intimately linked as the two often accompany each other. However, there are varying thoughts and theoretical perspectives on the topic as it continues to be a subject of scholarly analysis and debate
Can you give us a few examples to back up your thesis, Milltown?
Genocide is an extreme manifestation of war. After WW2 the world built institutions to prevent genocide in the future. Why have these institutions failed ?
I just gave you the definitions of war, and genocide and war. Its not my thesis
Some people seem to think there are good deaths and bad deaths
As said above, it continues to be a subject of scholarly analysis and debate
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 12:35:55 PMQuote from: seafoid on January 24, 2024, 12:10:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 11:31:29 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2024, 11:03:17 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 08:44:46 AMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 11:16:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 09:49:07 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Dunno, like to annoy utter pricks who whinged about me upsetting their feelings and got me banned for two weeks. What do you think yourself, Mr Sensitive? Besides, gives us more information about the brave Palestinian resistance against the Zionist Nazi child murdering bastards.
I think its you that's Mr Sensitive. Also glorifying people getting killed in a war is a bit odd, but I suppose whatever gets you going
What war?
Not getting into any deflection.. but
War is an intense armed conflict between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.
Hamas and those before Hamas and in the West Bank have openly talked about war with Israel and Israel have said the same thing
In a war/conflict/genocide there are no winners
War and genocide studies is an interdisciplinary subject that identifies and analyzes the relationship between war and genocide, as well as the structural foundations of associated conflicts. Disciplines involved may include political science, geography, economics, sociology, international relations, and history.
There is general consensus among scholars that the problems of war and genocide are intimately linked as the two often accompany each other. However, there are varying thoughts and theoretical perspectives on the topic as it continues to be a subject of scholarly analysis and debate
Can you give us a few examples to back up your thesis, Milltown?
Genocide is an extreme manifestation of war. After WW2 the world built institutions to prevent genocide in the future. Why have these institutions failed ?
I just gave you the definitions of war, and genocide and war. Its not my thesis
Some people seem to think there are good deaths and bad deaths
As said above, it continues to be a subject of scholarly analysis and debate
Genocide does not have to a part of war. It is beyond the pale.
Which scholars push the line that war and genocide are inseparable? I would love to know.
Did the war in the north morph into genocide? Why not? Were the Brits actually following the laws of war?
Quote from: seafoid on January 24, 2024, 12:10:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 11:31:29 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2024, 11:03:17 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 08:44:46 AMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 11:16:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 09:49:07 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Dunno, like to annoy utter pricks who whinged about me upsetting their feelings and got me banned for two weeks. What do you think yourself, Mr Sensitive? Besides, gives us more information about the brave Palestinian resistance against the Zionist Nazi child murdering bastards.
I think its you that's Mr Sensitive. Also glorifying people getting killed in a war is a bit odd, but I suppose whatever gets you going
What war?
Not getting into any deflection.. but
War is an intense armed conflict between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.
Hamas and those before Hamas and in the West Bank have openly talked about war with Israel and Israel have said the same thing
In a war/conflict/genocide there are no winners
War and genocide studies is an interdisciplinary subject that identifies and analyzes the relationship between war and genocide, as well as the structural foundations of associated conflicts. Disciplines involved may include political science, geography, economics, sociology, international relations, and history.
There is general consensus among scholars that the problems of war and genocide are intimately linked as the two often accompany each other. However, there are varying thoughts and theoretical perspectives on the topic as it continues to be a subject of scholarly analysis and debate
Can you give us a few examples to back up your thesis, Milltown?
Genocide is an extreme manifestation of war. After WW2 the world built institutions to prevent genocide in the future. Why have these institutions failed ?
Having the actual perpetrators of genocide sitting on the UN Security Council with a veto doesn't help things.
Russia (attempting genocide in Ukraine)
China (ongoing genocide against Uyghur people - despite what St. Clare of Hypocrosia says)
United States (backers of Israel perpetrating decades long slow motion genocide against Palestinians - now speeding up).
For the rest - it's easier to pretend genocide isn't happening otherwise you might have to do something about it.
Quote from: seafoid on January 24, 2024, 02:21:00 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 12:35:55 PMQuote from: seafoid on January 24, 2024, 12:10:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 11:31:29 AMQuote from: JoG2 on January 24, 2024, 11:03:17 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2024, 08:44:46 AMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 11:16:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2024, 09:49:07 PMQuote from: red hander on January 23, 2024, 08:39:16 PMCheck out IDF Death and Destruction Count Team on X. Great tag 'We bring you good news'
Why would you be following that?
Dunno, like to annoy utter pricks who whinged about me upsetting their feelings and got me banned for two weeks. What do you think yourself, Mr Sensitive? Besides, gives us more information about the brave Palestinian resistance against the Zionist Nazi child murdering bastards.
I think its you that's Mr Sensitive. Also glorifying people getting killed in a war is a bit odd, but I suppose whatever gets you going
What war?
Not getting into any deflection.. but
War is an intense armed conflict between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.
Hamas and those before Hamas and in the West Bank have openly talked about war with Israel and Israel have said the same thing
In a war/conflict/genocide there are no winners
War and genocide studies is an interdisciplinary subject that identifies and analyzes the relationship between war and genocide, as well as the structural foundations of associated conflicts. Disciplines involved may include political science, geography, economics, sociology, international relations, and history.
There is general consensus among scholars that the problems of war and genocide are intimately linked as the two often accompany each other. However, there are varying thoughts and theoretical perspectives on the topic as it continues to be a subject of scholarly analysis and debate
Can you give us a few examples to back up your thesis, Milltown?
Genocide is an extreme manifestation of war. After WW2 the world built institutions to prevent genocide in the future. Why have these institutions failed ?
I just gave you the definitions of war, and genocide and war. Its not my thesis
Some people seem to think there are good deaths and bad deaths
As said above, it continues to be a subject of scholarly analysis and debate
Genocide does not have to a part of war. It is beyond the pale.
Which scholars push the line that war and genocide are inseparable? I would love to know.
Did the war in the north morph into genocide? Why not? Were the Brits actually following the laws of war?
If the UDA infiltrated the British Army and declared war on all Taigs would it be acceptable to bomb the Ulster final because all Taigs are declared to be animals ?
Answers on a postcard
There is no f**king way that there are scholars who justify genocide as a consequence of war.
ICJ's preliminary judgment is that there is sufficient evidence to consider the charge of genocide.
https://twitter.com/saulstaniforth/status/1750858672207520002?s=46&t=8oLqNHLiemnJFQZY2zDdMw
Though they don't call for a ceasefire.
nothing will happen from the court case no one is willing to step in and stop israel by force and you will probably never see netanyahu in the hague.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 26, 2024, 01:26:54 PMICJ's preliminary judgment is that there is sufficient evidence to consider the charge of genocide.
https://twitter.com/saulstaniforth/status/1750858672207520002?s=46&t=8oLqNHLiemnJFQZY2zDdMw
Though they don't call for a ceasefire.
Apparently it is within the rules for a country to wage war but one should follow the rules of waging war, one such rule being 'do not commit genocide'. Calling for a ceasefire is not within the remit of the court, it needs to further investigate the allegations of genocide.
Out of interest, why do insert a link to an obscure twitter thread and not the BBC news website itself which has many informative articles on this subject, all within easy reach?
That's where I got it from. Staniforth has been very good on this issue.
committing genocide fine, supply weapons, support Israel.
allegation of a few UNWRA involvement with Hamas and US/UK suspend funding...
How anyone could trust either countries or govt on anything when they haven't shown signs of having any humanity or morals regarding Israel and Palestine... shameful.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 27, 2024, 02:10:28 PMcommitting genocide fine, supply weapons, support Israel.
allegation of a few UNWRA involvement with Hamas and US/UK suspend funding...
How anyone could trust either countries or govt on anything when they haven't shown signs of having any humanity or morals regarding Israel and Palestine... shameful.
An allegation from the Israelis themselves is that right?
Quote from: tonto1888 on January 27, 2024, 03:07:01 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 27, 2024, 02:10:28 PMcommitting genocide fine, supply weapons, support Israel.
allegation of a few UNWRA involvement with Hamas and US/UK suspend funding...
How anyone could trust either countries or govt on anything when they haven't shown signs of having any humanity or morals regarding Israel and Palestine... shameful.
An allegation from the Israelis themselves is that right?
yes, the intelligence is a result of interrogations of militants who were arrested during the 7 October attack, Israel have also killed over 100 UNWRA employees since start of Oct.
The party of John Hume to boycott Biden and the White House. Well played Mr. Eastwood. I don't expect the US loving right wing parties of FG, SF, FF to follow the SDLP example.
The Houtis have killed three US soldiers by a drone strike in some US military base in Syria, which is meant to be illegal....
Genocide Joe will need to react.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 29, 2024, 08:40:48 AMThe Houtis have killed three US soldiers by a drone strike in some US military base in Syria, which is meant to be illegal....
Genocide Joe will need to react.
I seen he was blaming Iran alright
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 27, 2024, 05:00:59 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on January 27, 2024, 03:07:01 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 27, 2024, 02:10:28 PMcommitting genocide fine, supply weapons, support Israel.
allegation of a few UNWRA involvement with Hamas and US/UK suspend funding...
How anyone could trust either countries or govt on anything when they haven't shown signs of having any humanity or morals regarding Israel and Palestine... shameful.
An allegation from the Israelis themselves is that right?
yes, the intelligence is a result of interrogations of militants who were arrested during the 7 October attack, Israel have also killed over 100 UNWRA employees since start of Oct.
UNHWR have fired 10 staffers over this, so there must be some evidence they were involved
Quote from: whitey on January 29, 2024, 10:31:39 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 27, 2024, 05:00:59 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on January 27, 2024, 03:07:01 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 27, 2024, 02:10:28 PMcommitting genocide fine, supply weapons, support Israel.
allegation of a few UNWRA involvement with Hamas and US/UK suspend funding...
How anyone could trust either countries or govt on anything when they haven't shown signs of having any humanity or morals regarding Israel and Palestine... shameful.
An allegation from the Israelis themselves is that right?
yes, the intelligence is a result of interrogations of militants who were arrested during the 7 October attack, Israel have also killed over 100 UNWRA employees since start of Oct.
UNHWR have fired 10 staffers over this, so there must be some evidence they were involved
Probably was out of 30K staff but no issues with the blatant genocide carried out by Israel yet the "aid" still keeps coming.
US, UK and their compatriots are genocide supporters and the world knows it.
Eastwood only saying he isn't attending to cover up that he wasn't invited
Quote from: johnnycool on January 29, 2024, 10:49:24 AMQuote from: whitey on January 29, 2024, 10:31:39 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 27, 2024, 05:00:59 PMQuote from: tonto1888 on January 27, 2024, 03:07:01 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 27, 2024, 02:10:28 PMcommitting genocide fine, supply weapons, support Israel.
allegation of a few UNWRA involvement with Hamas and US/UK suspend funding...
How anyone could trust either countries or govt on anything when they haven't shown signs of having any humanity or morals regarding Israel and Palestine... shameful.
An allegation from the Israelis themselves is that right?
yes, the intelligence is a result of interrogations of militants who were arrested during the 7 October attack, Israel have also killed over 100 UNWRA employees since start of Oct.
UNHWR have fired 10 staffers over this, so there must be some evidence they were involved
Probably was out of 30K staff but no issues with the blatant genocide carried out by Israel yet the "aid" still keeps coming.
US, UK and their compatriots are genocide supporters and the world knows it.
They were suspended to avoid it being used as a means to stop financial support for UNRWA.
But caging 2.2m people for 17 years, then straving them and subjecting them to ethic cleansing and genocide isn't enough for the west. The Palestinians must be made suffer more, just for existing.
Israel want rid of UNRWA, it has stated this previously, the method and intelligence used against the 12 employees is constantly changing, it was through interrogations but now surveillance etc.
Israel is trying to prevent the right of return of those already ethically cleansed since 1948, while committing more ethic cleansing and genocide, getting rid of UNRWA is part of that. All this while holding conferences on where settlements will be placed in Gaza, attend by the Israeli Government.
Israel has no credible evidence against the UNRWA staffers. It is shifa hospital 2.0
Israel wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza by means of famine.
Zionism is the purest evil.
So Israeli allegations of involvement by 10-12 UNRWA operators out of 30,000 (a list previously provided to and cleared by Israel) is sufficient smoke to cut out aid.
However genocidal statements and attendance at Settler conferences by Government Ministers is not sufficient indication of Israeli direction of travel.
Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2024, 08:52:55 PMSo Israeli allegations of involvement by 10-12 UNRWA operators out of 30,000 (a list previously provided to and cleared by Israel) is sufficient smoke to cut out aid.
However genocidal statements and attendance at Settler conferences by Government Ministers is not sufficient indication of Israeli direction of travel.
The UNRWA budget is around $600m per annum. Countries (not Ireland) are suspending rather than cancelling. The Arabs can easily replace them but, if the US pulls out, it will be another case of it shooting itself in the foot in terms of Middle East credibility. Denying starving people food is not a good look.
Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 09:28:00 PMQuote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2024, 08:52:55 PMSo Israeli allegations of involvement by 10-12 UNRWA operators out of 30,000 (a list previously provided to and cleared by Israel) is sufficient smoke to cut out aid.
However genocidal statements and attendance at Settler conferences by Government Ministers is not sufficient indication of Israeli direction of travel.
The UNRWA budget is around $600m per annum. Countries (not Ireland) are suspending rather than cancelling. The Arabs can easily replace them but, if the US pulls out, it will be another case of it shooting itself in the foot in terms of Middle East credibility. Denying starving people food is not a good look.
Why don't the Arabs step up to the plate and replace them?
Quote from: burdizzo on January 29, 2024, 10:29:01 PMQuote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 09:28:00 PMQuote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2024, 08:52:55 PMSo Israeli allegations of involvement by 10-12 UNRWA operators out of 30,000 (a list previously provided to and cleared by Israel) is sufficient smoke to cut out aid.
However genocidal statements and attendance at Settler conferences by Government Ministers is not sufficient indication of Israeli direction of travel.
The UNRWA budget is around $600m per annum. Countries (not Ireland) are suspending rather than cancelling. The Arabs can easily replace them but, if the US pulls out, it will be another case of it shooting itself in the foot in terms of Middle East credibility. Denying starving people food is not a good look.
Why don't the Arabs step up to the plate and replace them?
They will if the US etc cancel instead of suspend
Nobody in the media ever points out why 80% of the people in gaza are dependent on food aid. Israel destroyed the economy. Israel is the purest evil.
Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 10:31:35 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 29, 2024, 10:29:01 PMQuote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 09:28:00 PMQuote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2024, 08:52:55 PMSo Israeli allegations of involvement by 10-12 UNRWA operators out of 30,000 (a list previously provided to and cleared by Israel) is sufficient smoke to cut out aid.
However genocidal statements and attendance at Settler conferences by Government Ministers is not sufficient indication of Israeli direction of travel.
The UNRWA budget is around $600m per annum. Countries (not Ireland) are suspending rather than cancelling. The Arabs can easily replace them but, if the US pulls out, it will be another case of it shooting itself in the foot in terms of Middle East credibility. Denying starving people food is not a good look.
Why don't the Arabs step up to the plate and replace them?
They will if the US etc cancel instead of suspend
Nobody in the media ever points out why 80% of the people in gaza are dependent on food aid. Israel destroyed the economy. Israel is the purest evil.
Isreal government? Or just all of Israel is the purest evil?
Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 10:31:35 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 29, 2024, 10:29:01 PMQuote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 09:28:00 PMQuote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2024, 08:52:55 PMSo Israeli allegations of involvement by 10-12 UNRWA operators out of 30,000 (a list previously provided to and cleared by Israel) is sufficient smoke to cut out aid.
However genocidal statements and attendance at Settler conferences by Government Ministers is not sufficient indication of Israeli direction of travel.
The UNRWA budget is around $600m per annum. Countries (not Ireland) are suspending rather than cancelling. The Arabs can easily replace them but, if the US pulls out, it will be another case of it shooting itself in the foot in terms of Middle East credibility. Denying starving people food is not a good look.
Why don't the Arabs step up to the plate and replace them?
They will if the US etc cancel instead of suspend
Nobody in the media ever points out why 80% of the people in gaza are dependent on food aid. Israel destroyed the economy. Israel is the purest evil.
Why does it take the US to cancel, though? Surely they should be contributing anyway?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2024, 10:33:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 10:31:35 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 29, 2024, 10:29:01 PMQuote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 09:28:00 PMQuote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2024, 08:52:55 PMSo Israeli allegations of involvement by 10-12 UNRWA operators out of 30,000 (a list previously provided to and cleared by Israel) is sufficient smoke to cut out aid.
However genocidal statements and attendance at Settler conferences by Government Ministers is not sufficient indication of Israeli direction of travel.
The UNRWA budget is around $600m per annum. Countries (not Ireland) are suspending rather than cancelling. The Arabs can easily replace them but, if the US pulls out, it will be another case of it shooting itself in the foot in terms of Middle East credibility. Denying starving people food is not a good look.
Why don't the Arabs step up to the plate and replace them?
They will if the US etc cancel instead of suspend
Nobody in the media ever points out why 80% of the people in gaza are dependent on food aid. Israel destroyed the economy. Israel is the purest evil.
Isreal government? Or just all of Israel is the purest evil?
released on December 5 a poll, showed 87% support for resuming the offensive in Gaza after the week of ceasefire in the last seven days of November. The differences by ideological affiliation were smaller: 74% among those who define themselves as left-wing; 84% from the center, and 93% from the right. Only a small minority of Jews supported shifting to a different form of combat in order to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties and minimize international pressure.More than the government in my opinion.
Israel has group trauma. Most Israeli Jews have no empathy. A fish rots from the head but the fish is also rotten.The society will have to be denazified.
The Gatekeepers, acclaimed documentary based on interviews with various bosses of Shin Beth, Israel security
and strangely their consensus of where things went awry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJ5KrEWriU&t=1527s
Quote from: clarshack on October 18, 2023, 10:25:36 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2023, 08:39:59 AMIt's really at this point no matter who or how this has happened, the casualties from here on in will mainly be innocents, if Biden has any clout then he needs to use if to stop this carnage
Sadly it's always the innocents that suffer in war.
Whatever.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 10:32:49 AMQuote from: clarshack on October 18, 2023, 10:25:36 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2023, 08:39:59 AMIt's really at this point no matter who or how this has happened, the casualties from here on in will mainly be innocents, if Biden has any clout then he needs to use if to stop this carnage
Sadly it's always the innocents that suffer in war.
Whatever.
What point are you trying to make here Tommy?
Carl von Clausewitz, the great student of war, defined its aim as altering the will of the enemy.
That certainly hasn't worked
Quote from: seafoid on February 07, 2024, 05:26:35 PMCarl von Clausewitz, the great student of war, defined its aim as altering the will of the enemy.
That certainly hasn't worked
If you kill them all then their opinion is moot.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 07, 2024, 08:01:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 07, 2024, 05:26:35 PMCarl von Clausewitz, the great student of war, defined its aim as altering the will of the enemy.
That certainly hasn't worked
If you kill them all then their opinion is moot.
They can't. It's 2024. Jews are a minority globally and the Nazis is a very bad look for a community that claims victim status.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuwfR9YrNp4
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on February 07, 2024, 03:23:02 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 07, 2024, 10:32:49 AMQuote from: clarshack on October 18, 2023, 10:25:36 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2023, 08:39:59 AMIt's really at this point no matter who or how this has happened, the casualties from here on in will mainly be innocents, if Biden has any clout then he needs to use if to stop this carnage
Sadly it's always the innocents that suffer in war.
Whatever.
What point are you trying to make here Tommy?
It's for Clarshack.
https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1755135556672000435?t=P8exm8F6wwfOFfKzTWLjxA&s=19
Israel.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 07, 2024, 08:51:06 PMhttps://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1755135556672000435?t=P8exm8F6wwfOFfKzTWLjxA&s=19
Israel.
Sums the shower of f**kers up fairly well. Only interested in killing
War Criminal Netanyahu told Blinken that he's only interested in "total victory for Israel" as he is obviously rejecting the latest peace moves.
The Führer reincarnated..... hope the cnut meets a similar end.
Empathy is a key word there and it's missing a lot in that country. I honestly cannot understand how a people who have been treated so horrifically want to inflict so much on another group.
And, there are Jewish people living all over the world who can see things as they are, but there is a massive chunk of the Israeli population who are so full of hate and would happily nuke Gaza.
It will never end and then when Trump comes in again it'll go off twice as bad.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 04:33:52 PMEmpathy is a key word there and it's missing a lot in that country. I honestly cannot understand how a people who have been treated so horrifically want to inflict so much on another group.
And, there are Jewish people living all over the world who can see things as they are, but there is a massive chunk of the Israeli population who are so full of hate and would happily nuke Gaza.
It will never end and then when Trump comes in again it'll go off twice as bad.
Sorry, Trump may be a sc**bag but this wasn't happening as bad when he was president. Maybe Biden is worse than Trump or equally as bad? That's how I see it.
Irisk basketball ladies refuse to shake hands with Israelis in pre match ritual today.
Well done to them.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/basketball/2024/0208/1431235-basketball-ireland-israel-eurobasket/
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 06:22:38 PMIrisk basketball ladies refuse to shake hands with Israelis in pre match ritual today.
Well done to them.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/basketball/2024/0208/1431235-basketball-ireland-israel-eurobasket/
Weak effort. Shouldn't have played them. If afraid of sanction, should have just stood on the court and refused to play.
Quote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 05:54:34 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 04:33:52 PMEmpathy is a key word there and it's missing a lot in that country. I honestly cannot understand how a people who have been treated so horrifically want to inflict so much on another group.
And, there are Jewish people living all over the world who can see things as they are, but there is a massive chunk of the Israeli population who are so full of hate and would happily nuke Gaza.
It will never end and then when Trump comes in again it'll go off twice as bad.
Sorry, Trump may be a sc**bag but this wasn't happening as bad when he was president. Maybe Biden is worse than Trump or equally as bad? That's how I see it.
I am not a fan of any US President to be honest, but Biden is dealing with a demented regime in Israel now. That has to be noted.
But, Trump does tend to mind the local market first and could be just as happy to pull the plug on the cash flowing out...
Quote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 06:35:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 06:22:38 PMIrisk basketball ladies refuse to shake hands with Israelis in pre match ritual today.
Well done to them.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/basketball/2024/0208/1431235-basketball-ireland-israel-eurobasket/
Weak effort. Shouldn't have played them. If afraid of sanction, should have just stood on the court and refused to play.
Not in the bigger scheme of things. They laid down an important marker. Other teams will follow.
Israel is never going to be treated as a normal country unless the occupation ends.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2024, 10:33:17 PMQuote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 10:31:35 PMQuote from: burdizzo on January 29, 2024, 10:29:01 PMQuote from: seafoid on January 29, 2024, 09:28:00 PMQuote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2024, 08:52:55 PMSo Israeli allegations of involvement by 10-12 UNRWA operators out of 30,000 (a list previously provided to and cleared by Israel) is sufficient smoke to cut out aid.
However genocidal statements and attendance at Settler conferences by Government Ministers is not sufficient indication of Israeli direction of travel.
The UNRWA budget is around $600m per annum. Countries (not Ireland) are suspending rather than cancelling. The Arabs can easily replace them but, if the US pulls out, it will be another case of it shooting itself in the foot in terms of Middle East credibility. Denying starving people food is not a good look.
Why don't the Arabs step up to the plate and replace them?
They will if the US etc cancel instead of suspend
Nobody in the media ever points out why 80% of the people in gaza are dependent on food aid. Israel destroyed the economy. Israel is the purest evil.
Isreal government? Or just all of Israel is the purest evil?
The government, the people who voted them in, the people chanting "death to the Arabs," the IDF, etc..
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 06:46:02 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 05:54:34 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 04:33:52 PMEmpathy is a key word there and it's missing a lot in that country. I honestly cannot understand how a people who have been treated so horrifically want to inflict so much on another group.
And, there are Jewish people living all over the world who can see things as they are, but there is a massive chunk of the Israeli population who are so full of hate and would happily nuke Gaza.
It will never end and then when Trump comes in again it'll go off twice as bad.
Sorry, Trump may be a sc**bag but this wasn't happening as bad when he was president. Maybe Biden is worse than Trump or equally as bad? That's how I see it.
I am not a fan of any US President to be honest, but Biden is dealing with a demented regime in Israel now. That has to be noted.
But, Trump does tend to mind the local market first and could be just as happy to pull the plug on the cash flowing out...
He has hugged the little Hitler, referred to him as his side and is selling him billions of weapons - many being used illegally. Biden is scum
Quote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 07:39:34 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 06:46:02 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 05:54:34 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 04:33:52 PMEmpathy is a key word there and it's missing a lot in that country. I honestly cannot understand how a people who have been treated so horrifically want to inflict so much on another group.
And, there are Jewish people living all over the world who can see things as they are, but there is a massive chunk of the Israeli population who are so full of hate and would happily nuke Gaza.
It will never end and then when Trump comes in again it'll go off twice as bad.
Sorry, Trump may be a sc**bag but this wasn't happening as bad when he was president. Maybe Biden is worse than Trump or equally as bad? That's how I see it.
I am not a fan of any US President to be honest, but Biden is dealing with a demented regime in Israel now. That has to be noted.
But, Trump does tend to mind the local market first and could be just as happy to pull the plug on the cash flowing out...
He has hugged the little Hitler, referred to him as his side and is selling him billions of weapons - many being used illegally. Biden is scum
So is Blinken.
Quote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 05:54:34 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 04:33:52 PMEmpathy is a key word there and it's missing a lot in that country. I honestly cannot understand how a people who have been treated so horrifically want to inflict so much on another group.
And, there are Jewish people living all over the world who can see things as they are, but there is a massive chunk of the Israeli population who are so full of hate and would happily nuke Gaza.
It will never end and then when Trump comes in again it'll go off twice as bad.
Sorry, Trump may be a sc**bag but this wasn't happening as bad when he was president. Maybe Biden is worse than Trump or equally as bad? That's how I see it.
Hamas didn't launch an attack like Oct 7th when Trump was president, giving Israel an excuse to ramp up its genocide.
The US embassy moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in 2018 under Trump's watch, directly contravening international law and UN resolutions.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 08, 2024, 07:59:35 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 07:45:42 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 07:39:34 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 06:46:02 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 05:54:34 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 04:33:52 PMEmpathy is a key word there and it's missing a lot in that country. I honestly cannot understand how a people who have been treated so horrifically want to inflict so much on another group.
And, there are Jewish people living all over the world who can see things as they are, but there is a massive chunk of the Israeli population who are so full of hate and would happily nuke Gaza.
It will never end and then when Trump comes in again it'll go off twice as bad.
Sorry, Trump may be a sc**bag but this wasn't happening as bad when he was president. Maybe Biden is worse than Trump or equally as bad? That's how I see it.
I am not a fan of any US President to be honest, but Biden is dealing with a demented regime in Israel now. That has to be noted.
But, Trump does tend to mind the local market first and could be just as happy to pull the plug on the cash flowing out...
He has hugged the little Hitler, referred to him as his side and is selling him billions of weapons - many being used illegally. Biden is scum
So is Blinken.
You're deluded if you think Trump would have been any Quote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 05:54:34 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on February 08, 2024, 04:33:52 PMEmpathy is a key word there and it's missing a lot in that country. I honestly cannot understand how a people who have been treated so horrifically want to inflict so much on another group.
And, there are Jewish people living all over the world who can see things as they are, but there is a massive chunk of the Israeli population who are so full of hate and would happily nuke Gaza.
It will never end and then when Trump comes in again it'll go off twice as bad.
Sorry, Trump may be a sc**bag but this wasn't happening as bad when he was president. Maybe Biden is worse than Trump or equally as bad? That's how I see it.
Hamas didn't launch an attack like Oct 7th when Trump was president, giving Israel an excuse to ramp up its genocide.
The US embassy moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in 2018 under Trump's watch, directly contravening international law and UN resolutions.
It is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
QuoteIt is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
If that was the plan I think they may have miscalculated just how far the Israelis would go as a reaction. It's obvious their plan is to completely destroy Gaza, making it uninhabitable.
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 07:06:20 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 08, 2024, 06:35:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 06:22:38 PMIrisk basketball ladies refuse to shake hands with Israelis in pre match ritual today.
Well done to them.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/basketball/2024/0208/1431235-basketball-ireland-israel-eurobasket/
Weak effort. Shouldn't have played them. If afraid of sanction, should have just stood on the court and refused to play.
Not in the bigger scheme of things. They laid down an important marker. Other teams will follow.
Israel is never going to be treated as a normal country unless the occupation ends.
To be honest it's not as far as I'd like to have seen them go but I do understand why they had to suck it up and play the match. To be fair, they've went further than 99% of the worlds governments who say and do nothing or even actively support it.
Basketballers did something but proper order would have been to not show up.
I take it the footballers won't show up?
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 08, 2024, 08:16:21 PMQuoteIt is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
If that was the plan I think they may have miscalculated just how far the Israelis would go as a reaction. It's obvious their plan is to completely destroy Gaza, making it uninhabitable.
Gaza will be rebuilt. There will be an economic boom while it happens. That is how war works.
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 10:04:10 PMGaza will be rebuilt. There will be an economic boom while it happens.
Only if someone is willing to pay money to rebuild it.
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 10:04:10 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 08, 2024, 08:16:21 PMQuoteIt is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
If that was the plan I think they may have miscalculated just how far the Israelis would go as a reaction. It's obvious their plan is to completely destroy Gaza, making it uninhabitable.
Gaza will be rebuilt. There will be an economic boom while it happens. That is how war works.
This is genocide not war
The German mindset in all of this is interesting and complex.
FC St Pauli has taken some hit, supporters-wise internationally.
https://fcspsouthendscum.wordpress.com/2023/10/16/the-end-of-the-road/
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/7/why-is-germany-so-viciously-anti-palestinian
"The German mindset" on this is not "conplext
". Neither is the Dutch mindset.
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/apeldoornsebos.html
The past isn't past.It isn't even dead.
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 10:04:10 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 08, 2024, 08:16:21 PMQuoteIt is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
If that was the plan I think they may have miscalculated just how far the Israelis would go as a reaction. It's obvious their plan is to completely destroy Gaza, making it uninhabitable.
Gaza will be rebuilt. There will be an economic boom while it happens. That is how war works.
It won't be rebuilt for Palestinians tho
Quote from: ONeill on February 08, 2024, 11:04:41 PMThe German mindset in all of this is interesting and complex.
FC St Pauli has taken some hit, supporters-wise internationally.
https://fcspsouthendscum.wordpress.com/2023/10/16/the-end-of-the-road/
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/7/why-is-germany-so-viciously-anti-palestinian
I've been very disappointed by St Pauli to be honest.
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 09, 2024, 07:01:25 AMQuote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 10:04:10 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 08, 2024, 08:16:21 PMQuoteIt is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
If that was the plan I think they may have miscalculated just how far the Israelis would go as a reaction. It's obvious their plan is to completely destroy Gaza, making it uninhabitable.
Gaza will be rebuilt. There will be an economic boom while it happens. That is how war works.
It won't be rebuilt for Palestinians tho
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 09, 2024, 07:01:25 AMQuote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 10:04:10 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 08, 2024, 08:16:21 PMQuoteIt is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
If that was the plan I think they may have miscalculated just how far the Israelis would go as a reaction. It's obvious their plan is to completely destroy Gaza, making it uninhabitable.
Gaza will be rebuilt. There will be an economic boom while it happens. That is how war works.
It won't be rebuilt for Palestinians tho
Of course it will. Hamas has weaponised Arab public opinion.
This article from November by a Zionist partisan shows the struggles Israel has had with the Yanks and global public opinion
https://www.jns.org/biden-is-the-primary-obstacle-to-israeli-victory/
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 09, 2024, 07:02:25 AMQuote from: ONeill on February 08, 2024, 11:04:41 PMThe German mindset in all of this is interesting and complex.
FC St Pauli has taken some hit, supporters-wise internationally.
https://fcspsouthendscum.wordpress.com/2023/10/16/the-end-of-the-road/
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/7/why-is-germany-so-viciously-anti-palestinian
I've been very disappointed by St Pauli to be honest.
German guilt at slaughtering innocents in WW2 is resulting in the slaughtering of innocents in the present day, in both Palestine and Ukraine.
Whatever their handwringing and standing by on the sidelines is, it's certainly not pacifism.
Thankfully they have moved on a lot from the 11000 helmets they offered Ukraine in 2022 as they faced the Russian invasion.
They won't lift a finger for Palestine though, or even offer a word of condemnation of Israel.
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 10:04:10 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 08, 2024, 08:16:21 PMQuoteIt is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
If that was the plan I think they may have miscalculated just how far the Israelis would go as a reaction. It's obvious their plan is to completely destroy Gaza, making it uninhabitable.
Gaza will be rebuilt. There will be an economic boom while it happens. That is how war works.
I must have missed the Economic boom in Syria and Iraq.
Quote from: Itchy on February 09, 2024, 09:54:42 AMQuote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 10:04:10 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 08, 2024, 08:16:21 PMQuoteIt is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
If that was the plan I think they may have miscalculated just how far the Israelis would go as a reaction. It's obvious their plan is to completely destroy Gaza, making it uninhabitable.
Gaza will be rebuilt. There will be an economic boom while it happens. That is how war works.
I must have missed the Economic boom in Syria and Iraq.
Israel will rebuild it for Israelis. You'll find a lot of rich Americans will profit as usual
That debacle with the Israel Ireland womens basketball game >:(
Joe Brolly continuing to demonstrate to anyone who will listen what an utter twat he is.
https://x.com/joebrolly1993/status/1755909478535364757?s=46
joes just another palestine simp
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 09, 2024, 01:11:37 PMJoe Brolly continuing to demonstrate to anyone who will listen what an utter twat he is.
https://x.com/joebrolly1993/status/1755909478535364757?s=46
He's absolutely right. From what I'm seeing, five members of the panel/team had the moral integrity to bocott the fixture and they are the only ones who deserve credit.
not a big fan of Joe overall but I can understand his opinion. Russia and Belarus I understand are banned from WC last years. So maybe more fault lies with the Basketball authorities but Ireland imo should have not played.
Yeah I think to vilify the players is wrong. There is already stuff on social media trying to get to them all and paint them as anti semites etc etc.
Very difficult situation. From what I read not to fulfill this fixture was a huge fine. A fine that could nearly have bankrupt basketball ireland. A lot of people put in a very difficult position.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 01:58:09 PMYeah I think to vilify the players is wrong. There is already stuff on social media trying to get to them all and paint them as anti semites etc etc.
Very difficult situation. From what I read not to fulfill this fixture was a huge fine. A fine that could nearly have bankrupt basketball ireland. A lot of people put in a very difficult position.
I'd say a go fund me would have paid that fine within a couple of hours.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/68226819 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/68226819)
Impossible position. Brolly's post is very unfair - personalising just like he did on RTE and never learns.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 02:30:52 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/68226819 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/68226819)
Impossible position. Brolly's post is very unfair - personalising just like he did on RTE and never learns.
But very possible for keyboard warriors.
Brolly, while speaking sense on many topics, alot I'd agree with, is a ballbag. He can't help himself.
Quote from: JoG2 on February 09, 2024, 03:24:25 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 02:30:52 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/68226819 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/68226819)
Impossible position. Brolly's post is very unfair - personalising just like he did on RTE and never learns.
But very possible for keyboard warriors.
Brolly, while speaking sense on many topics, alot I'd agree with, is a ballbag. He can't help himself.
Agreed on all of the above. Impossible position.
The double standards are appalling.
Will be interesting to see if FAI come under same pressure for the U-17 game coming up against Israel on Feb 23. And we'll be competing against Israeli athletes in Olympics? Should we be boycotting?
The Israeli team were a disgrace and should face big fines. The Irish women were indeed put in an impossible situation. We'll see if FAI face the same pressure.
Quote from: weareros on February 09, 2024, 03:28:23 PMWill be interesting to see if FAI come under same pressure for the U-17 game coming up against Israel on Feb 23. And we'll be competing against Israeli athletes in Olympics? Should we be boycotting?
The Israeli team were a disgrace and should face big fines. The Irish women were indeed put in an impossible situation. We'll see if FAI face the same pressure.
To boycott? I'd say they will
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 09, 2024, 04:07:26 PMQuote from: weareros on February 09, 2024, 03:28:23 PMWill be interesting to see if FAI come under same pressure for the U-17 game coming up against Israel on Feb 23. And we'll be competing against Israeli athletes in Olympics? Should we be boycotting?
The Israeli team were a disgrace and should face big fines. The Irish women were indeed put in an impossible situation. We'll see if FAI face the same pressure.
To boycott? I'd say they will
Yes. And if there's consistency to boycott all sports or competitions where we are competing against Israel, that's good. I remain to be convinced. So far the only targets seem to have been Eurovision (which is a group competition and a crap one at that) and Women's Basketball.
Quote from: Snapchap on February 09, 2024, 04:05:34 PMQuote from: Rossfan on February 09, 2024, 03:28:01 PMThe double standards are appalling.
From?
Likes of Sports bodies who banned Russian and Belarussian teams and athletes because of their Government actions. However no attempt to do similar with Israelis, in fact the very opposite!
Quote from: Rossfan on February 09, 2024, 04:52:21 PMQuote from: Snapchap on February 09, 2024, 04:05:34 PMQuote from: Rossfan on February 09, 2024, 03:28:01 PMThe double standards are appalling.
From?
Likes of Sports bodies who banned Russian and Belarussian teams and athletes because of their Government actions. However no attempt to do similar with Israelis, in fact the very opposite!
Absolutely. Hopefully any other Irish sporting teams do the right thing as well.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 09, 2024, 04:52:21 PMQuote from: Snapchap on February 09, 2024, 04:05:34 PMQuote from: Rossfan on February 09, 2024, 03:28:01 PMThe double standards are appalling.
From?
Likes of Sports bodies who banned Russian and Belarussian teams and athletes because of their Government actions. However no attempt to do similar with Israelis, in fact the very opposite!
Precisely!
Joe's tweet is deleted I believe
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 09, 2024, 02:02:42 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 01:58:09 PMYeah I think to vilify the players is wrong. There is already stuff on social media trying to get to them all and paint them as anti semites etc etc.
Very difficult situation. From what I read not to fulfill this fixture was a huge fine. A fine that could nearly have bankrupt basketball ireland. A lot of people put in a very difficult position.
I'd say a go fund me would have paid that fine within a couple of hours.
They could have walked onto the court and sat down. Still fulfilled the fixture. Anyway, it's not the players it's the administration.
Quote from: Itchy on February 09, 2024, 05:51:30 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 09, 2024, 02:02:42 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 01:58:09 PMYeah I think to vilify the players is wrong. There is already stuff on social media trying to get to them all and paint them as anti semites etc etc.
Very difficult situation. From what I read not to fulfill this fixture was a huge fine. A fine that could nearly have bankrupt basketball ireland. A lot of people put in a very difficult position.
I'd say a go fund me would have paid that fine within a couple of hours.
They could have walked onto the court and sat down. Still fulfilled the fixture. Anyway, it's not the players it's the administration.
Administration could have taken the decision out of the players hands, but they players are all adults capable of making their own choice. Respect to the five who made the choice to stay at home.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2024, 02:30:52 PMhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/68226819 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/basketball/68226819)
Impossible position. Brolly's post is very unfair - personalising just like he did on RTE and never learns.
It's hypocritical for Brolly to criticise the women basketball players but yet fail to criticise SF for attending the St Patrick's day celebrations in the White House. In an ideal world they all would have boycotted the fixture but not every individual will have the moral fibre or thickness of skin of a James McClean where principals come before self interest.
Joe has just become a propagandist like a lot of other twitteratti where the truth doesn't really matter any more. I would agree with a lot of what he says on the genocide but he has become so prejudiced and repetitive on a lot of issues that it's getting boring. It's his delivery and personal attacks that have sometimes overshadowed his opinions which can be quite valid a lot of the time. He has become a more intelligent version of Jamie Bryson and he really should be better than that.
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 09, 2024, 07:02:25 AMQuote from: ONeill on February 08, 2024, 11:04:41 PMThe German mindset in all of this is interesting and complex.
FC St Pauli has taken some hit, supporters-wise internationally.
https://fcspsouthendscum.wordpress.com/2023/10/16/the-end-of-the-road/
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/7/why-is-germany-so-viciously-anti-palestinian
I've been very disappointed by St Pauli to be honest.
Are you disappointed by this extract from the St.Pauli fan's reply to the board, referring to the emboldened bit
We are St. Pauli supporters, we are all antifascist and antiracist. We are against occupation, imperialism and colonialism. We refuse to side with them. We support the right of the Palestinian people to self-defense and self-determination. We want peace in the Middle East as much as you do, but we know very well who wants war.
Equally we condemn the religious fundamentalism, human rights abuses and indescribable brutality of the Hamas régime, we share nothing more with these people than we share with the Netanyahu régime. We don't stand with Hamas, we actually despise them, Hamas is simply the sad result of the policies enforced in the Palestinian land, we stand with the Palestinian people, the ones being bombed again with phosphorus bombs these days...
Quote from: weareros on February 09, 2024, 03:28:23 PMWill be interesting to see if FAI come under same pressure for the U-17 game coming up against Israel on Feb 23. And we'll be competing against Israeli athletes in Olympics? Should we be boycotting?
The Israeli team were a disgrace and should face big fines. The Irish women were indeed put in an impossible situation. We'll see if FAI face the same pressure.
The longer the killings continue the more Israel will be ostracised. It's a bit like the thing with banks and debt. If you owe the bank a small amount of money it's your problem. If you owe them a huge amount of money it is their problem. It is the same with political dissent. If it is just Ireland FIBA can come down hard but if it's 10 countries FIBA has a problem.
Quote from: Main Street on February 10, 2024, 12:21:44 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on February 09, 2024, 07:02:25 AMQuote from: ONeill on February 08, 2024, 11:04:41 PMThe German mindset in all of this is interesting and complex.
FC St Pauli has taken some hit, supporters-wise internationally.
https://fcspsouthendscum.wordpress.com/2023/10/16/the-end-of-the-road/
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/7/why-is-germany-so-viciously-anti-palestinian
I've been very disappointed by St Pauli to be honest.
Are you disappointed by this extract from the St.Pauli fan's reply to the board, referring to the emboldened bit
We are St. Pauli supporters, we are all antifascist and antiracist. We are against occupation, imperialism and colonialism. We refuse to side with them. We support the right of the Palestinian people to self-defense and self-determination. We want peace in the Middle East as much as you do, but we know very well who wants war.
Equally we condemn the religious fundamentalism, human rights abuses and indescribable brutality of the Hamas régime, we share nothing more with these people than we share with the Netanyahu régime. We don't stand with Hamas, we actually despise them, Hamas is simply the sad result of the policies enforced in the Palestinian land, we stand with the Palestinian people, the ones being bombed again with phosphorus bombs these days...
I wonder what form of resistance St Pauli supporters would find acceptable from Palestinians. A strongly worded letter perhaps, a petition maybe. If only the allies had of thought of that when fighting the Nazis. Get off the f**king fence St Pauli.
I wonder has Bono the pox and tears for this child...
https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0210/1431575-hind-rajab-gaza/
Quote from: Main Street on February 10, 2024, 12:21:44 AMQuote from: tonto1888 on February 09, 2024, 07:02:25 AMQuote from: ONeill on February 08, 2024, 11:04:41 PMThe German mindset in all of this is interesting and complex.
FC St Pauli has taken some hit, supporters-wise internationally.
https://fcspsouthendscum.wordpress.com/2023/10/16/the-end-of-the-road/
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/7/why-is-germany-so-viciously-anti-palestinian
I've been very disappointed by St Pauli to be honest.
Are you disappointed by this extract from the St.Pauli fan's reply to the board, referring to the emboldened bit
We are St. Pauli supporters, we are all antifascist and antiracist. We are against occupation, imperialism and colonialism. We refuse to side with them. We support the right of the Palestinian people to self-defense and self-determination. We want peace in the Middle East as much as you do, but we know very well who wants war.
Equally we condemn the religious fundamentalism, human rights abuses and indescribable brutality of the Hamas régime, we share nothing more with these people than we share with the Netanyahu régime. We don't stand with Hamas, we actually despise them, Hamas is simply the sad result of the policies enforced in the Palestinian land, we stand with the Palestinian people, the ones being bombed again with phosphorus bombs these days...
As I said, I've been disappointed by St Pauli.
Quote from: Itchy on February 09, 2024, 09:54:42 AMQuote from: seafoid on February 08, 2024, 10:04:10 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 08, 2024, 08:16:21 PMQuoteIt is usually about timing. Saudi Arabia was about to sign an agreement recognising Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue. This is why Hamas acted on Oct 7. They wanted to put Palestine back on the agenda by revealing the dark heart of Israel to the world. And they did it. Israel cannot stop itself. Hamas knew that.
If that was the plan I think they may have miscalculated just how far the Israelis would go as a reaction. It's obvious their plan is to completely destroy Gaza, making it uninhabitable.
Gaza will be rebuilt. There will be an economic boom while it happens. That is how war works.
I must have missed the Economic boom in Syria and Iraq.
The Anglo Celt's economics department must have been sloppy recently
https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/iraq/overview
.
The turnaround in oil markets has significantly improved Iraq's economic outlook in the medium term. Overall growth in 2022 is now forecast at 8.9% as OPEC+ quotas end, and Iraq's production surpasses its pre‑pandemic level of 4.6 million barrels per day.
Should we cavan people be offededd?
Don'd you know us? NEVER trust banks.
Israel had a window , driven by public sympathy for the 7 October, (ignoring how many of its own people Israel had murdered ) before public opinion turned against it.
The US presidential race, assuming the 2 old geezers run, has very little in the way of margins and progressive disgust at Israel's savagery could hurt Biden in swing states so the Yanks seem to have told Israel that time is almost up.
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2024, 06:36:01 PMIsrael had a window , driven by public sympathy for the 7 October, (ignoring how many of its own people Israel had murdered ) before public opinion turned against it.
The US presidential race, assuming the 2 old geezers run, has very little in the way of margins and progressive disgust at Israel's savagery could hurt Biden in swing states so the Yanks seem to have told Israel that time is almost up.
Public opinion isn't turning against them.
They are, and can do what they like.
They don't care about public opinion, Europe, America or anybody.
Public opinion hasn't turned that far against them. Enough propaganda to ensure there isn't much more turn against the. I don't think it matters anyway - untouchable.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 11, 2024, 07:16:20 PMPublic opinion hasn't turned that far against them. Enough propaganda to ensure there isn't much more turn against the. I don't think it matters anyway - untouchable.
Sure look at the Irish basketball players- you can't say or do anything against them murdering children or you're an anti semite
So they're now bombing Rafah despite being warned. Operation obliterate everything is nearly complete >:(
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 11, 2024, 07:38:14 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on February 11, 2024, 07:16:20 PMPublic opinion hasn't turned that far against them. Enough propaganda to ensure there isn't much more turn against the. I don't think it matters anyway - untouchable.
Sure look at the Irish basketball players- you can't say or do anything against them murdering children or you're an anti semite
One thing for sure is it flushed out the Israeli supporting arseholes in Ireland. Peter Casey being no.1 the f**king Donegal w**ker.
Quote from: trailer on February 12, 2024, 10:21:21 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 11, 2024, 07:38:14 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on February 11, 2024, 07:16:20 PMPublic opinion hasn't turned that far against them. Enough propaganda to ensure there isn't much more turn against the. I don't think it matters anyway - untouchable.
Sure look at the Irish basketball players- you can't say or do anything against them murdering children or you're an anti semite
One thing for sure is it flushed out the Israeli supporting arseholes in Ireland. Peter Casey being no.1 the f**king Donegal w**ker.
Unfortunately the man is one of ours
A bad egg no matter where he's from.
Führer Netanyahu and his fellow war criminals' aim was always to clear the "untermensch" out of Gaza and create lebensraum as part of the GrossIsrael Reich.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 11, 2024, 07:16:20 PMPublic opinion hasn't turned that far against them. Enough propaganda to ensure there isn't much more turn against the. I don't think it matters anyway - untouchable.
Some people have to wait for objective proof. Watch the run up to elections in the US and UK.
Elites are pro Israel. People are not.
Israel is the heart of darkness.
Women are giving birth under caesarian with no anaesthetic.
Other women are using thin stips of tent fabric because there are no tampons
Every university has been destroyed.
70% of homes have been destroyed.
Netanyahu is pure evil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPPGMNOLaMw
Pure evil has to be destroyed . There is no equlibrium with Nazis.
SF words do not matter. People are dying and no one is doing anything about it and there appears to be no appetite from anywhere (in the west certainly) to do anything about it. It's not just that it's not being spoken out about - it's being funded. To go from funding this to it being the enemy would be quite the jump.
It's really interesting to compare the general Board attitude to Israel now versus that in 2014 when Israel also trashed Gaza. Israel's sadism since last October has really cut through in a way that previous waves didn't.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2024, 12:14:38 PMSF words do not matter. People are dying and no one is doing anything about it and there appears to be no appetite from anywhere (in the west certainly) to do anything about it. It's not just that it's not being spoken out about - it's being funded. To go from funding this to it being the enemy would be quite the jump.
SF can't change anything overnight. Nobody can. If they could, Israel would have stopped. It is like the Brexit diplomacy over the border. It is going to take time. No Irish party betrayed the North after 2016 and no Irish party will betray the Palestinians either.
Even if the worst happens and Hamas is destoyed the resistance will continue.
SF = short for seafoid. Nothing to do with any Irish party - this is a global thing and you use lots of words to make it sound like magically it will suddenly become alright when a penny drops. It is far too late for that and I find it hard to believe that will even happen never mind happen soon.
The Israeli ambassador is on Radio 11 now and she is lyying. She calls Israel a democracy and Hamas a genocidal terrorist organisation.
Careful Seafoid, where is Aerlik?
If they know who HAMAS is. Name them so people can avoid their presence.
Can you see anyone believing it, Go south to safety.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2024, 12:49:58 PMSF = short for seafoid. Nothing to do with any Irish party - this is a global thing and you use lots of words to make it sound like magically it will suddenly become alright when a penny drops. It is far too late for that and I find it hard to believe that will even happen never mind happen soon.
What were you expecting to see ?
Politics is not like sport.If it was we would have had a united Ireland years ago
"Policies in motion tend to stay in motion ; to change the trajectory of a deeply embedded set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal motion " Steve Walt
ICJ ignored -SA
https://twitter.com/real1maria/status/1754753599114973421
https://twitter.com/_iamblakeley/status/1743090839868346730
https://twitter.com/AliME848/status/1752926240389099868
Sarah Wilkinson airdrop
https://twitter.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1750086088801005621
Susan Sarandon
https://twitter.com/luigimichele/status/1750327960266326187
Diplomats leaving the UN Security Council yesterday as the Israeli ambassador started speaking.https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1750274719935234529
Labour left vs Rayner
https://twitter.com/tames_palestine/status/1750639794244194323
Pelosi
https://twitter.com/MullisVsMachine/status/1750661189904814165
https://twitter.com/ImaanLogic15364/status/1745484860687610213
We're zionists reworked
https://twitter.com/umyaznemo/status/1751097115344769292
What did you survive ?
https://twitter.com/ecomarxi/status/1751155855209246813
S Africa
https://twitter.com/heatherbarr1/status/1746482842333245723
Zionism is antisemitism
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1751936980596789593
UK support
https://twitter.com/stairwayto3dom/status/1751642168693821608
Kentucky raytheon
https://twitter.com/WildernessWypt/status/1753574748330524693
Bernie Sanders
https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1754951275349749978l⁹
This is not a Muslim issue
https://twitter.com/Voice_of_yemen/status/1713211150240792685
Led by donkeys
https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1754598375129833846
AOC
https://twitter.com/RepAOC/status/1755065115026530597
https://twitter.com/sarahleah1/status/1754607608609001799
Quote from: Denn Forever on February 12, 2024, 01:24:35 PMCareful Seafoid, where is Aerlik?
If they know who HAMAS is. Name them so people can avoid their presence.
Can you see anyone believing it, Go south to safety.
Israel blames Hamas on everything that Israel hates about itself
Empty words
Posted By Stephen M. Walt Monday, March 25, 2013 – 1:30 PM Share
(excerpts)
But there is another broad family of IR (international relations)theories — the realist family — and it maintains that what matters most in politics is power and how it is applied.
No matter how well-written or delivered, a speech cannot divert whole societies from a well-established course of action. Policies in motion tend to remain in motion; to change the trajectory of a deeply-entrenched set of initiatives requires the application of political forces of equal momentum.
For realists like me, in short, halting a colonial enterprise that has been underway for over forty years will require a lot more than wise and well-intentioned words. Instead, it would require the exercise of power.
Because power is more important than mere rhetoric, it won't take long before Obama's visit is just another memory. The settlements will keep expanding, East Jerusalem will be cut off from the rest of the West Bank, the Palestinians will remain stateless, and Israel will continue on its self-chosen path to apartheid."
The name of the game is power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLcKmOwRk_c&t=490s
Seafoid, you are deluded. Israel dont care, they will stop when they're done. Endgame of phase 1 is fast approaching tho, the next stage will be more complicated and probably no less horrific.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 12, 2024, 02:34:34 PMSeafoid, you are deluded. Israel dont care, they will stop when they're done. Endgame of phase 1 is fast approaching tho, the next stage will be more complicated and probably no less horrific.
Exactly this.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 12, 2024, 02:34:34 PMSeafoid, you are deluded. Israel dont care, they will stop when they're done. Endgame of phase 1 is fast approaching tho, the next stage will be more complicated and probably no less horrific.
When did you jump on the Palestinian bandwagon, Benny?
Here are some questions for you
What % of Democratic voters support Israel now?
How would ethnically cleansing Gaza solve the Palestinian question?
How many bases does the US have in the Middle East ?
How much violence is needed to destroy the Palestinian people, in kilojoules?
What does Sumud mean?
seafoid what is being done to stop them? What makes it look to you like they will be stopped in what they are doing?
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2024, 02:49:31 PMseafoid what is being done to stop them? What makes it look to you like they will be stopped in what they are doing?
The Tanaiste has been quoted on the radio as saying that bombing Rafah constitutes a war crime.
So more countries will probably join the South Africa case. South africa is going to take further action since Israel has ignored the ICJ. There is a lot of movement under the radar of the media.We don't know what the red lines of various countries are.
A Dutch appeals court has ruled that the country cannot export spare parts of F35s to Israel as they will be used for the purpose of genocide.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/12/netherlands-court-f35-israel/7970ee8a-c98d-11ee-aa8e-1e5794a4b2d6_story.html
Dutch appeals court orders Netherlands to stop exports of F-35 parts to Israel, citing war in Gaza
By Molly Quell | AP
February 12, 2024 at 10:44 a.m. EST
(Mohammed Dahman/AP)
"THE HAGUE, Netherlands — An appeals court ordered the Dutch government on Monday to halt the export of F-35 fighter jet parts to Israel, citing a clear risk of violations of international law.
A trio of human rights organizations brought a civil suit against the Netherlands in December, arguing authorities needed to reevaluate the export license in light of Israeli military action in the Gaza Strip.
"It is undeniable that there is a clear risk that the exported F-35 parts are used in serious violations of international humanitarian law," Judge Bas Boele said in reading out the ruling, eliciting cheers from several people in the courtroom.
The exports must cease within seven days.
The decision came as Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte traveled to Israel to meet with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to discuss the conflict. Rutte was also expected to separately meet with Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the government would appeal. "It is up to the state to shape its foreign policy," Geoffrey van Leeuwen, the minister for foreign trade and development said in a statement. In the meantime, van Leeuwen said his office would abide by the export ban.
"We are extremely grateful that there is justice and that the court was willing to speak out on justice," lead lawyer Liesbeth Zegveld told reporters after the hearing.
Oxfam Novib, Pax Nederland and The Rights Forum filed the case in December. They argued the continued transfer of the aircraft parts makes the Netherlands complicit in possible war crimes being committed by Israel in its war with Hamas.
Share this article
Share
In January, a lower court sided with the government, allowing the Dutch to continue sending U.S.-owned parts stored at a warehouse in the town of Woensdrecht to Israel. The Netherlands is home to one of three F-35 European regional warehouses.
Other countries are also considering restricting weapons sales to Israel. Human rights groups in the United Kingdom have brought a similar suit against their government, attempting to block weapons exports to Israel.
In the United States, Democrats in the Senate are pushing a bill that would require President Joe Biden to get congressional approval before greenlighting weapons sales to Israel.
Late last month, the U.N. top court ordered Israel to do all it can to prevent death, destruction and any acts of genocide in Gaza. Although that decision was made after the appeal in the Dutch case was heard, the groups' lawyers say judges likely considered the legally binding order from the International Court of Justice.
The decision left some room for Dutch authorities to export parts of the aircraft being used in operations other than Gaza."
This is linked to the ICJ
Things are moving fast
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2024, 02:49:31 PMseafoid what is being done to stop them? What makes it look to you like they will be stopped in what they are doing?
I have been listening to the Israeli ambassador and some spokesman in 2 separate interviews on RTE today. They are insane.
The Europeans could not move in October because the Yanks, Von Der Leyen plus the Germans and the dutch were with Israel. Israel cannot stop murdering Palestinians so South Africa brough the ICJ case. Now even in the US things are happening in DC. Sinn Féin's trip to the WH on SPD will not be what people expect . The Tanaiste using the term " war crime" is also indicative of the change occurring. It is obviously not fast enough but it is happening
US resupply is fundamental to Israeli sadism
https://www.jns.org/biden-is-the-primary-obstacle-to-israeli-victory/
Biden is the primary obstacle to Israeli victory
Polling shows that the overwhelming majority of Americans support Israel in this war and want it to destroy Hamas; the overwhelming majority of lawmakers from both parties share that view.
Israeli soldiers during the temporarily truce near the Israeli-Gaza border in southern Israel on Nov. 27, 2023. Photo by Yonatan Sindel/Flash90.Israeli soldiers during the temporarily truce near the Israeli-Gaza border in southern Israel on Nov. 27, 2023. Photo by Yonatan Sindel/Flash90.
CAROLINE B. GLICK
Caroline B. Glick is the senior contributing editor of Jewish News Syndicate and host of the "Caroline Glick Show" on JNS. She is also the diplomatic commentator for Israel's Channel 14, as well as a columnist for Newsweek. Glick is the senior fellow for Middle Eastern Affairs at the Center for Security Policy in Washington and a lecturer at Israel's College of Statesmanship.
Facebook
Twitter
WhatsApp
Email
Print
(November 27, 2023 / JNS)
The time has come to discuss the Biden administration's relationship with Israel. With each passing day, two things become obvious. First, Israel cannot fight the war without U.S. resupply of the Israel Defense Forces. As a consequence, Israel is beholden to the administration's directives. And second, if Israel follows the Biden administration's directives, it will lose the war.
Israel's dependence on the United States was stated bluntly by retired IDF Maj. General Yitzhak Brick in an interview earlier this week.
Subscribe to The JNS Daily Syndicate by email and never miss our top stories
Your Email
FREE SIGN UP
By signing up, you agree to receive emails from JNS and allied pro-Israel organizations.
ADVERTISEMENT
"All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it's all from the U.S. The minute they turn off the tap, you can't keep fighting. You have no capability. ... Everyone understands that we can't fight this war without the United States. Period."
Brick went on to explain that President Joe Biden's demand that Israel permit "humanitarian aid" to enter Gaza means that he is demanding that Israel keep Hamas fully supplied with food, water and fuel.
His demand that Israel minimize Palestinian civilian casualties endangers IDF soldiers and renders the expansion of the ground offensive into central and southern Gaza, where the bulk of Hamas's force is now located, almost impossible to carry out. Brick suggested various forms of long-term tunnel warfare and other suggestions for how the IDF may be able to defeat Hamas over time while operating within the constraints that Biden and his top advisors are dictating.
RELATED ARTICLES
U.S. President Joe Biden participates in a call with 11 world leaders about Ukraine on Oct. 3, 2023, in the Treaty Room of the White House. Adam Schultz/Official White House Photo.
Biden, Netanyahu discuss ongoing efforts to free hostages
February 12, 2024
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu meets with U.S President Joe Biden in Tel Aviv, Oct. 18, 2023. Photo by Miriam Alster/Flash90.
Disagreements over war driving Biden towards 'breach' with Israel
February 11, 2024
Antony Blinken, the U.S. secretary of state, meets with Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant in Jerusalem on Feb. 7, 2024. Credit: Chuck Kennedy/U.S. State Department.
Biden's and Blinken's words do real harm
February 9, 2024
It is hard to judge whether Brick's suggestions are workable without access to situational intelligence about conditions on the ground in southern Gaza. At a minimum, it is clear that Biden's preference for the lives of civilians in Gaza over the lives of IDF soldiers on the ground ensures that far more soldiers will be killed in the fighting than would otherwise. Three weeks ago, the administration began demanding that Israel limit (or cancel entirely) its pre-ground battle aerial bombings. Consequently, in the week that preceded this week's "humanitarian pause," the IDF's battle losses were overwhelmingly the consequence of sniper fire from Hamas terrorists hiding in buildings that the air force did not destroy before the battles, due to U.S. pressure.
Then there is the issue of the hostages. Israel is duty-bound to the hostages, their families and Israeli society as a whole to rescue them. There are two ways to do this. Israel can bow to Hamas's demands, as it is presently doing by suspending its offensive, and endangering Israel's soldiers and civilians by permitting Hamas to rebuild and reorganize its forces, and by releasing terrorists from its prisons and retuning them to Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria. Or it can renew its military operation, locate the hostages and rescue them itself. Clearly, the second option is preferable.
Securing aid from America
Until Monday, it appeared the reason that Israel had accepted the deal it is currently operating under owed to its inability to locate the hostages. The London-based Daily Express reported on Monday that the real reason Israel is not rescuing the hostages—and instead agreed to the current deal with all of its tactical and strategic costs—is related to the Biden administration's directive not to harm Palestinian civilians.
Based on Israeli sources, the British Daily Express reported that Israel knows where many of the hostages are located. It has opted not to rescue them because Hamas is holding the hostages among civilians. Rescuing them would involve collateral damage to those Palestinians and risk U.S. resupply, which Israel cannot fight without.
ADVERTISEMENT
Here it is important to note that the number of actual civilians that have died as a result of Israel's bombings remains unknown. On Oct. 25, Biden acknowledged that the Gaza Health Ministry's data on civilian casualties lacks credibility in light of the fact that the Health Ministry is simply an organ of Hamas and reports the numbers it is told to report by Hamas's terror masters. That data counts every dead terrorist as a dead civilian.
Israelis were thrilled with Biden's statement. But the next day, he apologized for it. According to Fox News, in a meeting with Muslim American leaders on Oct. 26, Biden apologized for telling the truth.
"I'm sorry. I'm disappointed with myself," he said.
Since Oct. 26, the administration has embraced as fact Hamas's casualty counts and uses them as the basis for its demand that Israel minimize Palestinian casualties. The administration's willingness to ignore the fallacies at the heart of those data indicates that its policy is based on something other than concern for Palestinian civilians, and therefore is not a tactical challenge that Israel may be capable of contending with and still win.
To be sure, Biden, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin have all expressed their solidarity with Israel, as well as their revulsion at Hamas's actions and desire to see the genocidal jihadist terror group defeated. And to be sure, Biden has taken steps to resupply Israel—requesting $14.3 billion in military supplies to Israel (although the assistance has yet to be approved by Congress or signed into law by Biden). These positions and at least partial actions lend credence to Brick's assessment, shared by the IDF and the government, that the challenge the Biden administration's position on civilian casualties in Gaza is an operational or tactical challenge and not a strategic conundrum.
Dealing with Fatah and the P.A.
But there are additional indications that Biden doesn't want Israel to win. First, there is the issue of Egypt. Due to the U.S. decision to support Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi's determination to prevent Gazans from fleeing to Egypt or to a third country through Egypt, the million or so Gazans who evacuated the northern end of the Strip during the fighting are now concentrated in the south. Among them are the bulk of Hamas's forces, which Israel must destroy to win the war. Facing the U.S.-backed Egyptian refusal to permit these civilians to leave Gaza on the one hand and the U.S. directive to keep civilian casualties close to zero on the other, Israel is facing an impossible operational challenge. Brick may be right that a low-key, slow offensive would be capable of achieving the goal. But he may be wrong. Certainly, a more conventional operation would have a much higher chance of succeeding.
ADVERTISEMENT
To this must be added the Biden administration's demands for a post-war settlement. Israel's goal is not only to defeat Hamas now but to prevent it from rebuilding and to prevent other terror groups from emerging in a post-war Gaza. To this end, at a minimum, Israel will be required to take two actions. First, it must retain permanent military control over all of Gaza. Second, Israel must seize a buffer zone several kilometers wide on the Gaza side of the border to protect civilian communities and military bases from a repeat of Oct. 7.
Biden and his advisers oppose both of these goals. Not only do they completely oppose Israeli military control over Gaza and the establishment of buffer zones inside Gaza, they demand that in a post-war settlement, Israel end its maritime blockade of the Gaza coast, and permit everything and anything to enter Gaza from the sea. In other words, the U.S. position is to permit terrorist forces whether they call themselves Hamas or anything else—to rebuild their capabilities unfettered in post-war Gaza.
Even worse, the administration's position is that Gaza must be ruled by the Fatah-controlled Palestinian Authority after the war has ended, and that Gaza be united with Judea and Samaria in a post-war era, and together receive full sovereignty. In other words, the administration's war goal is to establish a Fatah-dominated Palestinian state in these areas. On its own, this position is antithetical not only to an Israeli victory in the war. It represents an existential threat to Israel's continued existence. Fatah—and the P.A. it runs—is a terrorist organization and regime. The P.A.'s U.S.-armed and funded security forces are Hamas's junior partners in terror. As Eugene Kontorovich and Itamar Marcus reported in The Wall Street Journal this week, P.A.-controlled Fatah terrorists from Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terror group posted videos of its members in Gaza participating in Hamas's Oct. 7 slaughter. Fatah terrorists killed, tortured and kidnapped Israelis, and took videos of their actions.
Unlike Gaza, Judea and Samaria are a stone's throw from all of Israel's major population centers, and half a million Israelis live in cities and villages throughout Judea and Samaria. Last Friday night, the threat posed by Palestinian terrorist and paramilitary forces in Judea and Samaria to the lives of millions of Israelis came into sharp relief with the public lynching in the city of Tulkarm of two Palestinians accused of collaborating with Israeli counter-terror operations. To the roars of a crowd of thousands—secured by P.A. security forces—Hamas publicly hanged the two men from an electricity tower. The two men's bodies showed signs of brutal torture that preceded their execution. Tulkarm is controlled by the P.A. It is located less than a kilometer from the Cross Israel Highway and a few minutes' drive to Kfar Yona and Netanya.
Israel's dependence on U.S. weapons makes it impossible for the Netanyahu government to publicly air the strategic threat the administration's policies pose to its war effort and its long-term ability to survive in the post-Oct. 7 Middle East. Israel cannot risk additional stress to its position vis-à-vis the Biden administration and wants to avoid exposing the rift to its enemies already emboldened from Gaza to Lebanon, Yemen to Iran.
Congressional lawmakers face no such constraints, however. Moreover, they have an interest in exposing the truth and working to compel a change in the administration's Hamas-enabling policies. Polling data shows that the overwhelming majority of Americans support Israel in this war and want it to destroy Hamas. The overwhelming majority of lawmakers from both parties share their views. To date, the Republican majority in the House has made no effort to exercise oversight over the Biden administration's policies in relation to Israel's war with Hamas, largely due to the Israeli government's unwillingness to air the actual state of relations.
As the humanitarian pause is extended to secure the release of additional hostages and before the Christmas recess, House Republicans and like-minded Democrats should open hearings to compel the administration to explain its policies. Specifically, it should be asked to explain how Israel can defeat Hamas given the constraints the administration is placing on IDF operations. The administration should also be asked why it supports the P.A., given the P.A.'s involvement, support and defense of Hamas's invasion of Israel, and the slaughter of its civilians on Oct. 7. Congress should also ensure that the aid package, when passed, contains no conditions on Israel's use of the weapons it will receive.
ADVERTISEMENT
Lawmakers must understand the source of the Israeli government's fulsome praise for Biden. They should then take action to prevent the administration from maintaining its policy of paying lip service to an Israeli victory while preventing Israel from achieving one.
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2024, 05:07:18 PMIsrael is totally dependent on US reQuote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2024, 02:49:31 PMseafoid what is being done to stop them? What makes it look to you like they will be stopped in what they are doing?
I have been listening to the Israeli ambassador and some spokesman in 2 separate interviews on RTE today. They are insane.
The Europeans could not move in October because the Yanks, Von Der Leyen plus the Germans and the dutch were with Israel. Israel cannot stop murdering Palestinians so South Africa brough the ICJ case. Now even in the US things are happening in DC. Sinn Féin's trip to the WH on SPD will not be what people expect . The Tanaiste using the term " war crime" is also indicative of the change occurring. It is obviously not fast enough but it is happening
US resupply is fundamental to Israeli sadism
https://www.jns.org/biden-is-the-primary-obstacle-to-israeli-victory/
Biden is the primary obstacle to Israeli victory
Polling shows that the overwhelming majority of Americans support Israel in this war and want it to destroy Hamas; the overwhelming majority of lawmakers from both parties share that view.
Israeli soldiers during the temporarily truce near the Israeli-Gaza border in southern Israel on Nov. 27, 2023. Photo by Yonatan Sindel/Flash90.Israeli soldiers during the temporarily truce near the Israeli-Gaza border in southern Israel on Nov. 27, 2023. Photo by Yonatan Sindel/Flash90.
CAROLINE B. GLICK
Caroline B. Glick is the senior contributing editor of Jewish News Syndicate and host of the "Caroline Glick Show" on JNS. She is also the diplomatic commentator for Israel's Channel 14, as well as a columnist for Newsweek. Glick is the senior fellow for Middle Eastern Affairs at the Center for Security Policy in Washington and a lecturer at Israel's College of Statesmanship.
Facebook
Twitter
WhatsApp
Email
Print
(November 27, 2023 / JNS)
The time has come to discuss the Biden administration's relationship with Israel. With each passing day, two things become obvious. First, Israel cannot fight the war without U.S. resupply of the Israel Defense Forces. As a consequence, Israel is beholden to the administration's directives. And second, if Israel follows the Biden administration's directives, it will lose the war.
Israel's dependence on the United States was stated bluntly by retired IDF Maj. General Yitzhak Brick in an interview earlier this week.
Subscribe to The JNS Daily Syndicate by email and never miss our top stories
Your Email
FREE SIGN UP
By signing up, you agree to receive emails from JNS and allied pro-Israel organizations.
ADVERTISEMENT
"All of our missiles, the ammunition, the precision-guided bombs, all the airplanes and bombs, it's all from the U.S. The minute they turn off the tap, you can't keep fighting. You have no capability. ... Everyone understands that we can't fight this war without the United States. Period."
Brick went on to explain that President Joe Biden's demand that Israel permit "humanitarian aid" to enter Gaza means that he is demanding that Israel keep Hamas fully supplied with food, water and fuel.
His demand that Israel minimize Palestinian civilian casualties endangers IDF soldiers and renders the expansion of the ground offensive into central and southern Gaza, where the bulk of Hamas's force is now located, almost impossible to carry out. Brick suggested various forms of long-term tunnel warfare and other suggestions for how the IDF may be able to defeat Hamas over time while operating within the constraints that Biden and his top advisors are dictating.
RELATED ARTICLES
U.S. President Joe Biden participates in a call with 11 world leaders about Ukraine on Oct. 3, 2023, in the Treaty Room of the White House. Adam Schultz/Official White House Photo.
Biden, Netanyahu discuss ongoing efforts to free hostages
February 12, 2024
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu meets with U.S President Joe Biden in Tel Aviv, Oct. 18, 2023. Photo by Miriam Alster/Flash90.
Disagreements over war driving Biden towards 'breach' with Israel
February 11, 2024
Antony Blinken, the U.S. secretary of state, meets with Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant in Jerusalem on Feb. 7, 2024. Credit: Chuck Kennedy/U.S. State Department.
Biden's and Blinken's words do real harm
February 9, 2024
It is hard to judge whether Brick's suggestions are workable without access to situational intelligence about conditions on the ground in southern Gaza. At a minimum, it is clear that Biden's preference for the lives of civilians in Gaza over the lives of IDF soldiers on the ground ensures that far more soldiers will be killed in the fighting than would otherwise. Three weeks ago, the administration began demanding that Israel limit (or cancel entirely) its pre-ground battle aerial bombings. Consequently, in the week that preceded this week's "humanitarian pause," the IDF's battle losses were overwhelmingly the consequence of sniper fire from Hamas terrorists hiding in buildings that the air force did not destroy before the battles, due to U.S. pressure.
Then there is the issue of the hostages. Israel is duty-bound to the hostages, their families and Israeli society as a whole to rescue them. There are two ways to do this. Israel can bow to Hamas's demands, as it is presently doing by suspending its offensive, and endangering Israel's soldiers and civilians by permitting Hamas to rebuild and reorganize its forces, and by releasing terrorists from its prisons and retuning them to Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria. Or it can renew its military operation, locate the hostages and rescue them itself. Clearly, the second option is preferable.
Securing aid from America
Until Monday, it appeared the reason that Israel had accepted the deal it is currently operating under owed to its inability to locate the hostages. The London-based Daily Express reported on Monday that the real reason Israel is not rescuing the hostages—and instead agreed to the current deal with all of its tactical and strategic costs—is related to the Biden administration's directive not to harm Palestinian civilians.
Based on Israeli sources, the British Daily Express reported that Israel knows where many of the hostages are located. It has opted not to rescue them because Hamas is holding the hostages among civilians. Rescuing them would involve collateral damage to those Palestinians and risk U.S. resupply, which Israel cannot fight without.
ADVERTISEMENT
Here it is important to note that the number of actual civilians that have died as a result of Israel's bombings remains unknown. On Oct. 25, Biden acknowledged that the Gaza Health Ministry's data on civilian casualties lacks credibility in light of the fact that the Health Ministry is simply an organ of Hamas and reports the numbers it is told to report by Hamas's terror masters. That data counts every dead terrorist as a dead civilian.
Israelis were thrilled with Biden's statement. But the next day, he apologized for it. According to Fox News, in a meeting with Muslim American leaders on Oct. 26, Biden apologized for telling the truth.
"I'm sorry. I'm disappointed with myself," he said.
Since Oct. 26, the administration has embraced as fact Hamas's casualty counts and uses them as the basis for its demand that Israel minimize Palestinian casualties. The administration's willingness to ignore the fallacies at the heart of those data indicates that its policy is based on something other than concern for Palestinian civilians, and therefore is not a tactical challenge that Israel may be capable of contending with and still win.
To be sure, Biden, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin have all expressed their solidarity with Israel, as well as their revulsion at Hamas's actions and desire to see the genocidal jihadist terror group defeated. And to be sure, Biden has taken steps to resupply Israel—requesting $14.3 billion in military supplies to Israel (although the assistance has yet to be approved by Congress or signed into law by Biden). These positions and at least partial actions lend credence to Brick's assessment, shared by the IDF and the government, that the challenge the Biden administration's position on civilian casualties in Gaza is an operational or tactical challenge and not a strategic conundrum.
Dealing with Fatah and the P.A.
But there are additional indications that Biden doesn't want Israel to win. First, there is the issue of Egypt. Due to the U.S. decision to support Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi's determination to prevent Gazans from fleeing to Egypt or to a third country through Egypt, the million or so Gazans who evacuated the northern end of the Strip during the fighting are now concentrated in the south. Among them are the bulk of Hamas's forces, which Israel must destroy to win the war. Facing the U.S.-backed Egyptian refusal to permit these civilians to leave Gaza on the one hand and the U.S. directive to keep civilian casualties close to zero on the other, Israel is facing an impossible operational challenge. Brick may be right that a low-key, slow offensive would be capable of achieving the goal. But he may be wrong. Certainly, a more conventional operation would have a much higher chance of succeeding.
ADVERTISEMENT
To this must be added the Biden administration's demands for a post-war settlement. Israel's goal is not only to defeat Hamas now but to prevent it from rebuilding and to prevent other terror groups from emerging in a post-war Gaza. To this end, at a minimum, Israel will be required to take two actions. First, it must retain permanent military control over all of Gaza. Second, Israel must seize a buffer zone several kilometers wide on the Gaza side of the border to protect civilian communities and military bases from a repeat of Oct. 7.
Biden and his advisers oppose both of these goals. Not only do they completely oppose Israeli military control over Gaza and the establishment of buffer zones inside Gaza, they demand that in a post-war settlement, Israel end its maritime blockade of the Gaza coast, and permit everything and anything to enter Gaza from the sea. In other words, the U.S. position is to permit terrorist forces whether they call themselves Hamas or anything else—to rebuild their capabilities unfettered in post-war Gaza.
Even worse, the administration's position is that Gaza must be ruled by the Fatah-controlled Palestinian Authority after the war has ended, and that Gaza be united with Judea and Samaria in a post-war era, and together receive full sovereignty. In other words, the administration's war goal is to establish a Fatah-dominated Palestinian state in these areas. On its own, this position is antithetical not only to an Israeli victory in the war. It represents an existential threat to Israel's continued existence. Fatah—and the P.A. it runs—is a terrorist organization and regime. The P.A.'s U.S.-armed and funded security forces are Hamas's junior partners in terror. As Eugene Kontorovich and Itamar Marcus reported in The Wall Street Journal this week, P.A.-controlled Fatah terrorists from Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terror group posted videos of its members in Gaza participating in Hamas's Oct. 7 slaughter. Fatah terrorists killed, tortured and kidnapped Israelis, and took videos of their actions.
Unlike Gaza, Judea and Samaria are a stone's throw from all of Israel's major population centers, and half a million Israelis live in cities and villages throughout Judea and Samaria. Last Friday night, the threat posed by Palestinian terrorist and paramilitary forces in Judea and Samaria to the lives of millions of Israelis came into sharp relief with the public lynching in the city of Tulkarm of two Palestinians accused of collaborating with Israeli counter-terror operations. To the roars of a crowd of thousands—secured by P.A. security forces—Hamas publicly hanged the two men from an electricity tower. The two men's bodies showed signs of brutal torture that preceded their execution. Tulkarm is controlled by the P.A. It is located less than a kilometer from the Cross Israel Highway and a few minutes' drive to Kfar Yona and Netanya.
Israel's dependence on U.S. weapons makes it impossible for the Netanyahu government to publicly air the strategic threat the administration's policies pose to its war effort and its long-term ability to survive in the post-Oct. 7 Middle East. Israel cannot risk additional stress to its position vis-à-vis the Biden administration and wants to avoid exposing the rift to its enemies already emboldened from Gaza to Lebanon, Yemen to Iran.
Congressional lawmakers face no such constraints, however. Moreover, they have an interest in exposing the truth and working to compel a change in the administration's Hamas-enabling policies. Polling data shows that the overwhelming majority of Americans support Israel in this war and want it to destroy Hamas. The overwhelming majority of lawmakers from both parties share their views. To date, the Republican majority in the House has made no effort to exercise oversight over the Biden administration's policies in relation to Israel's war with Hamas, largely due to the Israeli government's unwillingness to air the actual state of relations.
As the humanitarian pause is extended to secure the release of additional hostages and before the Christmas recess, House Republicans and like-minded Democrats should open hearings to compel the administration to explain its policies. Specifically, it should be asked to explain how Israel can defeat Hamas given the constraints the administration is placing on IDF operations. The administration should also be asked why it supports the P.A., given the P.A.'s involvement, support and defense of Hamas's invasion of Israel, and the slaughter of its civilians on Oct. 7. Congress should also ensure that the aid package, when passed, contains no conditions on Israel's use of the weapons it will receive.
ADVERTISEMENT
Lawmakers must understand the source of the Israeli government's fulsome praise for Biden. They should then take action to prevent the administration from maintaining its policy of paying lip service to an Israeli victory while preventing Israel from achieving one.
This is incredible stuff. She says Biden is empowering a Hamas victory.
Unbelievable stuff, at one stage she is critical at how someone can put the lives of Gaza civilians ahead of Israeli soldiers. Incredible arrogance as to how the Israelis should be allowed to do what they are doing
They are f**king nuts
Here is the Israeli ambassador on news at one today
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22353916/
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2024, 06:22:05 PMThey are f**king nuts
Here is the Israeli ambassador on news at one today
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22353916/
Israeli Ambassador Dana Erlich is a weekly guest on Pat Kenny's Show on Newstalk (The reason she is a weekly guest is Pat gives her a soft interview every time). She goes around in circles with explanations that always goes back to Hamas. She got a bit of tougher interview there. But you're not going to get anything but a scripted rhetorical line of answering.
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 12, 2024, 06:46:10 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 12, 2024, 06:22:05 PMThey are f**king nuts
Here is the Israeli ambassador on news at one today
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22353916/
Israeli Ambassador Dana Erlich is a weekly guest on Pat Kenny's Show on Newstalk (The reason she is a weekly guest is Pat gives her a soft interview every time). She goes around in circles with explanations that always goes back to Hamas. She got a bit of tougher interview there. But you're not going to get anything but a scripted rhetorical line of answering.
She has no empathy. She says words like tragedy but she is emotionally dead. Like far too many Jewish Israelis.
Hamas is the bogeyman. In England that role used to be filled by Myra Hindley, the woman everyone hated.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2024, 02:49:31 PMseafoid what is being done to stop them? What makes it look to you like they will be stopped in what they are doing?
Coveney was on the radio today. The language coming out of the Government has changed recently. He said "you can't behave like a monster when fighting a monster" and said that the Govenment is working behind the scenes in the EU to change minds.
Saudi has warned Israel about attacking Rafah.
Josip Borell mentioned stopping arms sales to Israel. He is a big wig in the EU .
The yanks will still do the arms thing.
They're already attacking Rafah.
Title of this thread needs changed to: Israel genocide of Palestine.
Coveney
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0213/1432022-gaza-ireland/
This radio interview is really important . Chief Spokesperson for the UN High Commission on Human Rights and what the ICJ Genocide decision actually means . There are several avenues open to punish Israel including universal jurisdiction
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22355227/
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 13, 2024, 12:23:44 PMTitle of this thread needs changed to: Israel genocide of Palestine.
+1
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 13, 2024, 12:23:44 PMTitle of this thread needs changed to: Israel genocide of Palestine.
Israel's genocide of Palestine 1948-now
This did not start in October . The people in Gaza are the descendants of the Palestinian farmers who were ethnically cleansed from southern Palestine in 1948 to make way for Jewish plantation. The same thing happened in Ulster in 1610.
Quote from: LC on February 13, 2024, 01:27:45 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 13, 2024, 12:23:44 PMTitle of this thread needs changed to: Israel genocide of Palestine.
+1
The sayer of truth hath spoken! +2
From 2014
Israel: Palestinians Given Ample Time To Evacuate To Nearby Bombing Sites
https://www.theonion.com/israel-palestinians-given-ample-time-to-evacuate-to-ne-1819576722
JERUSALEM—In response to criticism surrounding the death toll during its ongoing incursion into Gaza, representatives from the Israeli government Wednesday emphasized that warnings sent to Palestinian civilians provided them with ample time to evacuate to nearby bombing sites. "We are being very careful and thorough as we carry out our targeted strikes, and I can say, without question, that Palestinians are given more than enough time to leave their residences and find shelter in a future bombardment target," said Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon, adding that whether alerted by phone, text message, or leaflet, Palestinians have sufficient opportunity to relocate to any number of locations marked for imminent aerial strikes. "Giving Palestinian civilians the chance to seek safety in the home of a family member or friend that will be shelled to rubble in the next 48 hours is a gesture we deserve praise for, not condemnation. In fact, this initiative has been a major success in this campaign." Ya'alon added that since there were numerous bombing sites Palestinians could take shelter in, he was not responsible for whatever happened to people who chose to stay home.
I see we are writing letters now to the EU. You can accuse me of being cynical, but for me this is our great leader's attempt to play to the gallery of public opinion and put forward the illusion that he is doing something. He's doing nothing and he won't do anything. By the time the letter is read, debated, discussed etc the children of Gaza will be dead and Rafah will be a graveyard.
Exactly - hollow words while the world watches on :-\
Quote from: Itchy on February 14, 2024, 01:25:44 PMI see we are writing letters now to the EU. You can accuse me of being cynical, but for me this is our great leader's attempt to play to the gallery of public opinion and put forward the illusion that he is doing something. He's doing nothing and he won't do anything. By the time the letter is read, debated, discussed etc the children of Gaza will be dead and Rafah will be a graveyard.
I think you are being cynical. The ICJ is more important that you seem to be allowing for in your analysis. Israel wants to get the Palestinians to flee in panic to Egypt. Forever and ever. Nobody supports them. A lot of things will change in the next few months.
Quote from: Itchy on February 14, 2024, 01:25:44 PMI see we are writing letters now to the EU. You can accuse me of being cynical, but for me this is our great leader's attempt to play to the gallery of public opinion and put forward the illusion that he is doing something. He's doing nothing and he won't do anything. By the time the letter is read, debated, discussed etc the children of Gaza will be dead and Rafah will be a graveyard.
Well M Martin did do something he visited the kabutz with his buddy Netanyahu and listened to the BS about 40 babies etc. Nothing has disgusted me more than the Irish governments response to the continuous massacre of Gaza
reports of a buffer zone being built in Egypt... Israel doesn't care about red lines as they are meaningless when they are never held to account.
Quote from: seafoid on February 14, 2024, 04:16:08 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 14, 2024, 01:25:44 PMI see we are writing letters now to the EU. You can accuse me of being cynical, but for me this is our great leader's attempt to play to the gallery of public opinion and put forward the illusion that he is doing something. He's doing nothing and he won't do anything. By the time the letter is read, debated, discussed etc the children of Gaza will be dead and Rafah will be a graveyard.
I think you are being cynical. The ICJ is more important that you seem to be allowing for in your analysis. Israel wants to get the Palestinians to flee in panic to Egypt. Forever and ever. Nobody supports them. A lot of things will change in the next few months.
What has anything you've written there got to do with the Irish government?
We don't have "the next few months"
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on February 14, 2024, 06:05:43 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 14, 2024, 01:25:44 PMI see we are writing letters now to the EU. You can accuse me of being cynical, but for me this is our great leader's attempt to play to the gallery of public opinion and put forward the illusion that he is doing something. He's doing nothing and he won't do anything. By the time the letter is read, debated, discussed etc the children of Gaza will be dead and Rafah will be a graveyard.
Well M Martin did do something he visited the kabutz with his buddy Netanyahu and listened to the BS about 40 babies etc. Nothing has disgusted me more than the Irish governments response to the continuous massacre of Gaza
There was a massacre at the Kibbutz also. Justified condemnation of the current events should not start with a false minimisation of that atrocity.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2024, 09:22:51 PMQuote from: north_antrim_hound on February 14, 2024, 06:05:43 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 14, 2024, 01:25:44 PMI see we are writing letters now to the EU. You can accuse me of being cynical, but for me this is our great leader's attempt to play to the gallery of public opinion and put forward the illusion that he is doing something. He's doing nothing and he won't do anything. By the time the letter is read, debated, discussed etc the children of Gaza will be dead and Rafah will be a graveyard.
Well M Martin did do something he visited the kabutz with his buddy Netanyahu and listened to the BS about 40 babies etc. Nothing has disgusted me more than the Irish governments response to the continuous massacre of Gaza
There was a massacre at the Kibbutz also. Justified condemnation of the current events should not start with a false minimisation of that atrocity.
Hamas did kill Isreli civilians on Oct 7 but not at Kibbutz Be'eri. That was destroyed by the Israeli air force.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 14, 2024, 09:22:51 PMQuote from: north_antrim_hound on February 14, 2024, 06:05:43 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 14, 2024, 01:25:44 PMI see we are writing letters now to the EU. You can accuse me of being cynical, but for me this is our great leader's attempt to play to the gallery of public opinion and put forward the illusion that he is doing something. He's doing nothing and he won't do anything. By the time the letter is read, debated, discussed etc the children of Gaza will be dead and Rafah will be a graveyard.
Well M Martin did do something he visited the kabutz with his buddy Netanyahu and listened to the BS about 40 babies etc. Nothing has disgusted me more than the Irish governments response to the continuous massacre of Gaza
There was a massacre at the Kibbutz also. Justified condemnation of the current events should not start with a false minimisation of that atrocity.
Keep your self righteous rhetoric for someone that endorses what happened on oct 7th. It certainly isn't me but because of the strange circumstances of the reports it's very hard to assess the extent of what Hamas did and how they managed to evade a well oiled high tec intelligence/security machine. The original narrative was in respect to the Irish Tánaiste cohorting with one of the biggest butchers of the 21st century. No one was trying to minimize what Hamas done.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0215/1432403-unrwa-lazzarin-martin/
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0214/1432222-taoiseach-gaza/
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2024, 06:15:53 AMhttps://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0215/1432403-unrwa-lazzarin-martin/
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0214/1432222-taoiseach-gaza/
I can sense a massive shift and Micheal Martin will write a 2nd letter and in this one he will call Nethanyahu a bold boy while condemning the events of Oct 7th and the murderous rampage of Hamas
Quote from: Itchy on February 15, 2024, 08:31:41 AMQuote from: seafoid on February 15, 2024, 06:15:53 AMhttps://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0215/1432403-unrwa-lazzarin-martin/
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0214/1432222-taoiseach-gaza/
I can sense a massive shift and Micheal Martin will write a 2nd letter and in this one he will call Nethanyahu a bold boy while condemning the events of Oct 7th and the murderous rampage of Hamas
Let's see what happens. Politics moves slowly but gets there in the end
Quote from: seafoid on February 15, 2024, 02:36:18 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 15, 2024, 08:31:41 AMQuote from: seafoid on February 15, 2024, 06:15:53 AMhttps://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0215/1432403-unrwa-lazzarin-martin/
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0214/1432222-taoiseach-gaza/
I can sense a massive shift and Micheal Martin will write a 2nd letter and in this one he will call Nethanyahu a bold boy while condemning the events of Oct 7th and the murderous rampage of Hamas
Let's see what happens. Politics moves slowly but gets there in the end
What do you think will come 1st - the slaughter of Palestinian Civilians or a equitable settlement in Palestine - at the current pace of operation. Bear in mind one side has zero interest in compromise and is armed to the teeth. There needs to be a massive speed up and the best way to do this is for countries to start breaking ranks with the EU & Yanks in a big way (not letter writing).
1- Expel the Israel Ambassador from Dublin
2- Boycott Israel for all sports involving Ireland, Eurovision and whatever else
3- Government boycott of Israeli goods and prevent Irish companies dealing with them
4- If the politicians must go to the US for St Patricks day, call for a ceasefire while there in a public way
5- Actively declare support at the ICJ for South Africa's case and get off the f**king fence.
That would speed things up a bit. And yes it would annoy some EU/Yank politicians and yes it would harm Leo/Micheals future cushy jobs in the EU. But its the right thing to do. They should try it, they might actually feel a bit better about themselves as human beings.
Quote from: Itchy on February 15, 2024, 04:32:42 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 15, 2024, 02:36:18 PMQuote from: Itchy on February 15, 2024, 08:31:41 AMQuote from: seafoid on February 15, 2024, 06:15:53 AMhttps://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0215/1432403-unrwa-lazzarin-martin/
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0214/1432222-taoiseach-gaza/
I can sense a massive shift and Micheal Martin will write a 2nd letter and in this one he will call Nethanyahu a bold boy while condemning the events of Oct 7th and the murderous rampage of Hamas
Let's see what happens. Politics moves slowly but gets there in the end
What do you think will come 1st - the slaughter of Palestinian Civilians or a equitable settlement in Palestine - at the current pace of operation. Bear in mind one side has zero interest in compromise and is armed to the teeth. There needs to be a massive speed up and the best way to do this is for countries to start breaking ranks with the EU & Yanks in a big way (not letter writing).
1- Expel the Israel Ambassador from Dublin
2- Boycott Israel for all sports involving Ireland, Eurovision and whatever else
3- Government boycott of Israeli goods and prevent Irish companies dealing with them
4- If the politicians must go to the US for St Patricks day, call for a ceasefire while there in a public way
5- Actively declare support at the ICJ for South Africa's case and get off the f**king fence.
That would speed things up a bit. And yes it would annoy some EU/Yank politicians and yes it would harm Leo/Micheals future cushy jobs in the EU. But its the right thing to do. They should try it, they might actually feel a bit better about themselves as human beings.
I agree with all 5 . The ambassador is a sc**bag
Meanwhile
https://twitter.com/MelechThomas/status/1757975009916514707
More War Crimes
https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-41333062.html
The Zionists have had free license to do anything they want in Gaza for the past 4/5 months. Not they that hadn't before but you'd wonder how and when this will end?
I can't see them stopping until Gaza is flattened and all the Palestinians have been made homeless (ethnic cleansed).
Very sad to see the disconnect between ordinary people and their governments on this issue.
Unbelievable the contortions the UK parliament went through last night to avoid saying they support a ceasefire, including the Speaker breaking with long held convention to allow an opposition amendment to another opposition party's early day motion. It appears Hoyle succumbed to blackmail from Starmer in order to keep his job as Speaker. In any normal political system both would lose their jobs.
What it also shows is that the influence the Israelis have over western political parties is awesome, it appears they can literally get them to do anything they want as most British politicians present stance flies in the face of reason and decency.
There is no decency in british politics at all. It is all just lies and corruption.
Yeah the influence Israel wield is unbelievable. The world will probably call for a ceasefire when they've hit their end goal >:(
Quote from: marty34 on February 16, 2024, 11:05:32 AMThe Zionists have had free license to do anything they want in Gaza for the past 4/5 months. Not they that hadn't before but you'd wonder how and when this will end?
I can't see them stopping until Gaza is flattened and all the Palestinians have been made homeless (ethnic cleansed).
Very sad to see the disconnect between ordinary people and their governments on this issue.
Months? Decades you mean.
They've been doing what they're currently doing for decades, only on a smaller, more intermittent scale.
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 22, 2024, 10:07:22 AMUnbelievable the contortions the UK parliament went through last night to avoid saying they support a ceasefire, including the Speaker breaking with long held convention to allow an opposition amendment to another opposition party's early day motion. It appears Hoyle succumbed to blackmail from Starmer in order to keep his job as Speaker. In any normal political system both would lose their jobs.
What it also shows is that the influence the Israelis have over western political parties is awesome, it appears they can literally get them to do anything they want as most British politicians present stance flies in the face of reason and decency.
Lad, don't look to the Brits for moral guidance. They are the greatest cnuts of them all.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 11:45:08 AMQuote from: marty34 on February 16, 2024, 11:05:32 AMThe Zionists have had free license to do anything they want in Gaza for the past 4/5 months. Not they that hadn't before but you'd wonder how and when this will end?
I can't see them stopping until Gaza is flattened and all the Palestinians have been made homeless (ethnic cleansed).
Very sad to see the disconnect between ordinary people and their governments on this issue.
Months? Decades you mean.
They've been doing what they're currently doing for decades, only on a smaller, more intermittent scale.
Correct but all I'm saying is that the world focus has been on them this past few months - with all the focus on their ethnic cleansing - and it hasn't made a bit of difference.
Quote from: marty34 on February 22, 2024, 12:17:31 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 11:45:08 AMQuote from: marty34 on February 16, 2024, 11:05:32 AMThe Zionists have had free license to do anything they want in Gaza for the past 4/5 months. Not they that hadn't before but you'd wonder how and when this will end?
I can't see them stopping until Gaza is flattened and all the Palestinians have been made homeless (ethnic cleansed).
Very sad to see the disconnect between ordinary people and their governments on this issue.
Months? Decades you mean.
They've been doing what they're currently doing for decades, only on a smaller, more intermittent scale.
Correct but all I'm saying is that the world focus has been on them this past few months - with all the focus on their ethnic cleansing - and it hasn't made a bit of difference.
Incorrectly in my opinion as it's interpreted that all was rosy in the garden until those bad Hamas "terrorists", for no apparent reason broke out of their jail and killed, murdered, raped and burned, innocent men, women and children.
Yet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
The lack of historical context in this post 🤢 Israeli landgrab and murder didn't begin on October 7 last year
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:34:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
You're referencing Armaghniac's comment from the Ukraine thread I take it.
Palestinians have every right to resist the Israeli occupation, just as Ukraine has every right to resist the Russian invaders and the occupation of their country. However, I'd be horrified if the Ukrainian army conducted themselves like Hamas did on Oct 7th (or the Israelis in their actions since then).
It is possible to support Palestinians while also condemning Hamas for their atrocities.
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 22, 2024, 08:48:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
The lack of historical context in this post 🤢 Israeli landgrab and murder didn't begin on October 7 last year
Everyone knows that but it still doesn't excuse murder.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 08:52:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 22, 2024, 08:48:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
The lack of historical context in this post 🤢 Israeli landgrab and murder didn't begin on October 7 last year
Everyone knows that but it still doesn't excuse murder.
If you know it mention it... Netenyahu was itching to do this... is like carpet bombing West Belfast after the Birmingham bomb...
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 08:51:36 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:34:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
You're referencing Armaghniac's comment from the Ukraine thread I take it.
Palestinians have every right to resist the Israeli occupation, just as Ukraine has every right to resist the Russian invaders and the occupation of their country. However, I'd be horrified if the Ukrainian army conducted themselves like Hamas did on Oct 7th (or the Israelis in their actions since then).
It is possible to support Palestinians while also condemning Hamas for their atrocities.
that wasn't your response to theskull post when he posted that there are war crimes on both sides of all conflicts...
This has gone long past Hamas attack... similar action was proposed here...
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/state-papers-dup-mp-william-mccrea-wanted-air-strikes-launched-on-the-republic-in-the-1980s/30867020.html
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:57:15 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 08:51:36 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:34:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
You're referencing Armaghniac's comment from the Ukraine thread I take it.
Palestinians have every right to resist the Israeli occupation, just as Ukraine has every right to resist the Russian invaders and the occupation of their country. However, I'd be horrified if the Ukrainian army conducted themselves like Hamas did on Oct 7th (or the Israelis in their actions since then).
It is possible to support Palestinians while also condemning Hamas for their atrocities.
that wasn't your response to theskull post when he posted that there are war crimes on both sides of all conflicts...
I didn't reference Hamas, Israel or Palestine - why would I?
I'll debate him or you on 'war crimes on all sides' on the Ukraine thread anytime you like.
Quote from: Truthsayer on February 22, 2024, 08:56:37 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 08:52:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 22, 2024, 08:48:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
The lack of historical context in this post 🤢 Israeli landgrab and murder didn't begin on October 7 last year
Everyone knows that but it still doesn't excuse murder.
If you know it mention it... Netenyahu was itching to do this... is like carpet bombing West Belfast after the Birmingham bomb...
Yes it is, though more like the Kingsmills massacre. And who would defend that? Some on here by the looks of it.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 09:06:12 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 22, 2024, 08:56:37 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 08:52:39 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on February 22, 2024, 08:48:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
The lack of historical context in this post 🤢 Israeli landgrab and murder didn't begin on October 7 last year
Everyone knows that but it still doesn't excuse murder.
If you know it mention it... Netenyahu was itching to do this... is like carpet bombing West Belfast after the Birmingham bomb...
Yes it is, though more like the Kingsmills massacre. And who would defend that? Some on here by the looks of it.
Can't defend it, but like what Hamas have done, none of it happened out of the blue...
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 09:03:59 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:57:15 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 08:51:36 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:34:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
You're referencing Armaghniac's comment from the Ukraine thread I take it.
Palestinians have every right to resist the Israeli occupation, just as Ukraine has every right to resist the Russian invaders and the occupation of their country. However, I'd be horrified if the Ukrainian army conducted themselves like Hamas did on Oct 7th (or the Israelis in their actions since then).
It is possible to support Palestinians while also condemning Hamas for their atrocities.
that wasn't your response to theskull post when he posted that there are war crimes on both sides of all conflicts...
I didn't reference Hamas, Israel or Palestine - why would I?
I'll debate him or you on 'war crimes on all sides' on the Ukraine thread anytime you like.
You did not mention the human rights, humanitarian law or war crimes the UN previously documented by the Ukrainian Army, when responding to theskull..
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 09:20:33 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 09:03:59 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:57:15 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 08:51:36 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:34:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
You're referencing Armaghniac's comment from the Ukraine thread I take it.
Palestinians have every right to resist the Israeli occupation, just as Ukraine has every right to resist the Russian invaders and the occupation of their country. However, I'd be horrified if the Ukrainian army conducted themselves like Hamas did on Oct 7th (or the Israelis in their actions since then).
It is possible to support Palestinians while also condemning Hamas for their atrocities.
that wasn't your response to theskull post when he posted that there are war crimes on both sides of all conflicts...
I didn't reference Hamas, Israel or Palestine - why would I?
I'll debate him or you on 'war crimes on all sides' on the Ukraine thread anytime you like.
You did not mention the human rights, humanitarian law or war crimes the UN previously documented by the Ukrainian Army, when responding to theskull..
Take it to the Ukraine thread.
But since you're here, do you defend the war crimes committed by Hamas on Oct 7th?
You can't compare an atrocity in the North to anything in Israel/Palestine. Israelis don't consider the Palestinians as human. The Israeli Parliament voted this week to never recognise a Palestinian state.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 09:28:39 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 09:20:33 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 09:03:59 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:57:15 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 08:51:36 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:34:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
You're referencing Armaghniac's comment from the Ukraine thread I take it.
Palestinians have every right to resist the Israeli occupation, just as Ukraine has every right to resist the Russian invaders and the occupation of their country. However, I'd be horrified if the Ukrainian army conducted themselves like Hamas did on Oct 7th (or the Israelis in their actions since then).
It is possible to support Palestinians while also condemning Hamas for their atrocities.
that wasn't your response to theskull post when he posted that there are war crimes on both sides of all conflicts...
I didn't reference Hamas, Israel or Palestine - why would I?
I'll debate him or you on 'war crimes on all sides' on the Ukraine thread anytime you like.
You did not mention the human rights, humanitarian law or war crimes the UN previously documented by the Ukrainian Army, when responding to theskull..
Take it to the Ukraine thread.
But since you're here, do you defend the war crimes committed by Hamas on Oct 7th?
No and I've made that clear from the very first posts of this thread. But I support international Law and the right to resist an occupation when peaceful means fail.
You rant that 'lives, hopes and dreams and aspirations don't count' when someone says war crimes on both sides in Ukraine/Russia but no issue both siding Israel/Palestine.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 09:35:55 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 09:28:39 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 09:20:33 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 09:03:59 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:57:15 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 08:51:36 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 08:34:56 PMQuote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2024, 08:21:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 22, 2024, 02:26:25 PMYet it's only coming to light that almost 400 killed that day were IDF personnel and who knows what other innocents were actually killed by the IDF that day.
If Hamas had killed on IDF personnel and demolished the fence, they would have attracted some measure of international support. Going into houses and killing families and going to a rock concert and rampaging about is not acceptable, even if some military targets were attacked. By the same token, it not acceptable for the Israelis to kill Gaza families even if some Hamas targets were attacked.
So this is the " both sides are as bad as each other" argument, the invaded are on a par with the invaders?
You're referencing Armaghniac's comment from the Ukraine thread I take it.
Palestinians have every right to resist the Israeli occupation, just as Ukraine has every right to resist the Russian invaders and the occupation of their country. However, I'd be horrified if the Ukrainian army conducted themselves like Hamas did on Oct 7th (or the Israelis in their actions since then).
It is possible to support Palestinians while also condemning Hamas for their atrocities.
that wasn't your response to theskull post when he posted that there are war crimes on both sides of all conflicts...
I didn't reference Hamas, Israel or Palestine - why would I?
I'll debate him or you on 'war crimes on all sides' on the Ukraine thread anytime you like.
You did not mention the human rights, humanitarian law or war crimes the UN previously documented by the Ukrainian Army, when responding to theskull..
Take it to the Ukraine thread.
But since you're here, do you defend the war crimes committed by Hamas on Oct 7th?
No and I've made that clear from the very first posts of this thread. But I support international Law and the right to resist an occupation when peaceful means fail.
You rant that 'lives, hopes and dreams and aspirations don't count' when someone says war crimes on both sides in Ukraine/Russia but no issue both siding Israel/Palestine.
'Rant' - no, merely making a point.
I'm not both siding - I support Palestinian right to resistance. I also recognise that the creation of Israel and their actions since are the root cause of everything. Also even if Hamas had murdered ten times the amount of civilians on Oct 7th it still wouldn't excuse Israeli actions since.
That still doesn't excuse Hamas actions on Oct 7th. Some on here just won't accept they were wrong to go on that killing spree.
Who are those on here?
i wouldn't categorise it as a killing spree.
You are both siding and accepting of others both siding when its Israel/Palestine, but don't apply that to Ukraine/Russia.
The goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world. Today the Attorney general spoke at the ICJ about Israeli settlers. Mission accomplished.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 10:01:24 PMWho are those on here?
i wouldn't categorise it as a killing spree.
You are both siding and accepting of others both siding when its Israel/Palestine, but don't apply that to Ukraine/Russia.
Myself or others condemning the Hamas attack on Oct 7th is not 'both siding'. You've even stated yourself you don't defend their actions. My sympathy lies with the Palestinians as I have made clear in my previous post and others.
Compare that to Skull who, when presented with a video clip of a Russian unashamedly outlining his own personal contribution to ethnic cleansing, couldn't bear it, and had trot out with some whishy washy statement about all side committing war crimes. Now that, is clear 'both sides' crap designed to excuse the aforementioned Russian war criminal.
Edit: as for 'who on here' - just rewind to page 1 of this thread.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 10:26:53 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 10:01:24 PMWho are those on here?
i wouldn't categorise it as a killing spree.
You are both siding and accepting of others both siding when its Israel/Palestine, but don't apply that to Ukraine/Russia.
Myself or others condemning the Hamas attack on Oct 7th is not 'both siding'. You've even stated yourself you don't defend their actions. My sympathy lies with the Palestinians as I have made clear in my previous post and others.
Compare that to Skull who, when presented with a video clip of a Russian unashamedly outlining his own personal contribution to ethnic cleansing, couldn't bear it, and had trot out with some whishy washy statement about all side committing war crimes. Now that, is clear 'both sides' crap designed to excuse the aforementioned Russian war criminal.
I dont defend war crimes, I support resistence as outlined..
So to be clear when faced with comments about israeli war crimes. both siding is ok as Hamas committed war crimes but when faced with Russian war crimes mentioning Ukrainian war crimes not ok???
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 10:32:27 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 10:26:53 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 10:01:24 PMWho are those on here?
i wouldn't categorise it as a killing spree.
You are both siding and accepting of others both siding when its Israel/Palestine, but don't apply that to Ukraine/Russia.
Myself or others condemning the Hamas attack on Oct 7th is not 'both siding'. You've even stated yourself you don't defend their actions. My sympathy lies with the Palestinians as I have made clear in my previous post and others.
Compare that to Skull who, when presented with a video clip of a Russian unashamedly outlining his own personal contribution to ethnic cleansing, couldn't bear it, and had trot out with some whishy washy statement about all side committing war crimes. Now that, is clear 'both sides' crap designed to excuse the aforementioned Russian war criminal.
I dont defend war crimes, I support resistence as outlined..
So to be clear when faced with comments about israeli war crimes. both siding is ok as Hamas committed war crimes but when faced with Russian war crimes mentioning Ukrainian war crimes not ok???
You don't defend war crimes, that's good, so you do condemn the Hamas war crimes committed on Oct 7th?
I've already explained that condemning Hamas is not both siding as it's not designed to excuse Israel.
Unlike Skull, who made his 'all sides' comment exactly to excuse the Russian. I guess his tankie brain couldn't cope and went into meltdown.
Quote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 10:43:26 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 10:32:27 PMQuote from: ThomasMullan on February 22, 2024, 10:26:53 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 22, 2024, 10:01:24 PMWho are those on here?
i wouldn't categorise it as a killing spree.
You are both siding and accepting of others both siding when its Israel/Palestine, but don't apply that to Ukraine/Russia.
Myself or others condemning the Hamas attack on Oct 7th is not 'both siding'. You've even stated yourself you don't defend their actions. My sympathy lies with the Palestinians as I have made clear in my previous post and others.
Compare that to Skull who, when presented with a video clip of a Russian unashamedly outlining his own personal contribution to ethnic cleansing, couldn't bear it, and had trot out with some whishy washy statement about all side committing war crimes. Now that, is clear 'both sides' crap designed to excuse the aforementioned Russian war criminal.
I dont defend war crimes, I support resistence as outlined..
So to be clear when faced with comments about israeli war crimes. both siding is ok as Hamas committed war crimes but when faced with Russian war crimes mentioning Ukrainian war crimes not ok???
You don't defend war crimes, that's good, so you do condemn the Hamas war crimes committed on Oct 7th?
I've already explained that condemning Hamas is not both siding as it's not designed to excuse Israel.
Unlike Skull, who made his 'all sides' comment exactly to excuse the Russian. I guess his tankie brain couldn't cope and went into meltdown.
how did you know he was excusing Russia? and know others aren't excusing Israel? could that be your own bias/hypocrisy!!
I condemn all war crimes, I thought that would be clear from recent answers..
https://twitter.com/TameeOliveFern/status/1760771171212243194?t=-sBKC3KieAMCKSBG2s6eSw&s=19
UN, Israeli sexual assaults of Palestinian women credible.
https://twitter.com/DecampDave/status/1760771887968260423?t=Sa0pF7adpmCIVY8mCyaJDA&s=19
MSF - 5 year olds saying they would prefer to die
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-22/ty-article-magazine/.premium/nova-partygoer-was-misidentified-as-hamas-terrorist-on-oct-7-killed-by-israeli-forces/0000018d-d14f-df79-a5cd-f17f934d0000
Another example of an Israeli being killed in 'friendly fire' on Oct 7.
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2024, 10:08:19 PMThe goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world. Today the Attorney general spoke at the ICJ about Israeli settlers. Mission accomplished.
If that was the goal of oct 7, then it was a perverse masochistic act where Hamas leadership knowing their militia could in no way protect the Palestinian civilians, deliberately provoked the reaction of Israel and expected the mass slaughter of the innocents but were at peace with that plan because it would show the true face of Israel to the world?
That would point to Hamas leadership cynically and sadistically not giving a damn about the slaughter of the innocents but look to the propaganda value of such
Maybe that played a part, who knows with Hamas.
I would also look to who also benefits from this imposed conflict, namely the barely concealed hidden hands of Iran, Syria and Russia.
Quote from: Main Street on February 22, 2024, 11:31:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 22, 2024, 10:08:19 PMThe goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world. Today the Attorney general spoke at the ICJ about Israeli settlers. Mission accomplished.
If that was the goal of oct 7, then it was a perverse masochistic act where Hamas leadership knowing their militia could in no way protect the Palestinian civilians, deliberately provoked the reaction of Israel and expected the mass slaughter of the innocents but were at peace with that plan because it would show the true face of Israel to the world?
That would point to Hamas leadership cynically and sadistically not giving a damn about the slaughter of the innocents but look to the propaganda value of such
Maybe that played a part, who knows with Hamas.
I would also look to who also benefits from this imposed conflict, namely the barely concealed hidden hands of Iran, Syria and Russia.
Russia/Syria/Iran!!!
the palestinan struggle and resistence is 75 year old, since the nakba. Hamas aren't the first or only resistence group. Hamas goals etc. are set out in its charter and in numerous briefing it has held since Oct 7. (they were online at the time and I assume still available). Hamas since taking power in Gaza have offered numerous peace initiatives and recently had the terms for a ceasefire rejected by Israel. Why not look them all up rather than engage in conjecture and saying who knows with Hamas!!
Quote from: Main Street on February 22, 2024, 11:31:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 22, 2024, 10:08:19 PMThe goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world. Today the Attorney general spoke at the ICJ about Israeli settlers. Mission accomplished.
If that was the goal of oct 7, then it was a perverse masochistic act where Hamas leadership knowing their militia could in no way protect the Palestinian civilians, deliberately provoked the reaction of Israel and expected the mass slaughter of the innocents but were at peace with that plan because it would show the true face of Israel to the world?
That would point to Hamas leadership cynically and sadistically not giving a damn about the slaughter of the innocents but look to the propaganda value of such
Maybe that played a part, who knows with Hamas.
I would also look to who also benefits from this imposed conflict, namely the barely concealed hidden hands of Iran, Syria and Russia.
When you've nothing left to lose what Hamas did on the 7th of October is understandable, that doesn't make it right but even those bastions of freedom, the Chinese recognise the rights of the occupied and oppressed to defend themselves.
Almost half of those killed by Hamas were IDF or security services which is a pretty decent strike rate compared to the IDF before and after that day.
Context of what Palestinians were living with day in and day out prior to this day is conveniently forgotten about by those in the West, irrespective of Hamas in Gaza as the same was and is happening in the West Bank right now with no Hamas involvement.
The world now sees the US and the EU enablers of this genocide for what they are.
Quote from: Main Street on February 22, 2024, 11:31:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 22, 2024, 10:08:19 PMThe goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world. Today the Attorney general spoke at the ICJ about Israeli settlers. Mission accomplished.
If that was the goal of oct 7, then it was a perverse masochistic act where Hamas leadership knowing their militia could in no way protect the Palestinian civilians, deliberately provoked the reaction of Israel and expected the mass slaughter of the innocents but were at peace with that plan because it would show the true face of Israel to the world?
That would point to Hamas leadership cynically and sadistically not giving a damn about the slaughter of the innocents but look to the propaganda value of such
Maybe that played a part, who knows with Hamas.
I would also look to who also benefits from this imposed conflict, namely the barely concealed hidden hands of Iran, Syria and Russia.
No need to look too hard for barely concealed hidden hands of those who benefit as they are in plain sight. The people enabling and cheerleading a genocide as they send billions in weapons to bomb children and women.
Sure they are all on TV every day of the week with comments such as 'kill them all' when asked about a ceasefire or proudly voting to stop funding to relief organizations.
These are the people benefitting with cash from AIPAC and other lobby groups such as weapons manufacturers who are making a killing from this.
So no need to to go looking for Reds under the Beds or Abduls in the Attic in this case mate.
Quote from: Main Street on February 22, 2024, 11:31:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 22, 2024, 10:08:19 PMThe goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world. Today the Attorney general spoke at the ICJ about Israeli settlers. Mission accomplished.
If that was the goal of oct 7, then it was a perverse masochistic act where Hamas leadership knowing their militia could in no way protect the Palestinian civilians, deliberately provoked the reaction of Israel and expected the mass slaughter of the innocents but were at peace with that plan because it would show the true face of Israel to the world?
That would point to Hamas leadership cynically and sadistically not giving a damn about the slaughter of the innocents but look to the propaganda value of such
Maybe that played a part, who knows with Hamas.
I would also look to who also benefits from this imposed conflict, namely the barely concealed hidden hands of Iran, Syria and Russia.
A good reply Main Street to more Seafoid nonsense. October 7th was a terrorist atrocity, conducted with no thought for what their own people were likely to endure in response. It was uber blood sacrafice bullshit. The retrospective revisionism is sickening my hole. The subsequent genocidal acts of Israel in no way make the actions of Oct 7th any less awful.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 23, 2024, 11:14:46 AMQuote from: Main Street on February 22, 2024, 11:31:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 22, 2024, 10:08:19 PMThe goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world. Today the Attorney general spoke at the ICJ about Israeli settlers. Mission accomplished.
If that was the goal of oct 7, then it was a perverse masochistic act where Hamas leadership knowing their militia could in no way protect the Palestinian civilians, deliberately provoked the reaction of Israel and expected the mass slaughter of the innocents but were at peace with that plan because it would show the true face of Israel to the world?
That would point to Hamas leadership cynically and sadistically not giving a damn about the slaughter of the innocents but look to the propaganda value of such
Maybe that played a part, who knows with Hamas.
I would also look to who also benefits from this imposed conflict, namely the barely concealed hidden hands of Iran, Syria and Russia.
A good reply Main Street to more Seafoid nonsense. October 7th was a terrorist atrocity, conducted with no thought for what their own people were likely to endure in response. It was uber blood sacrafice bullshit. The retrospective revisionism is sickening my hole. The subsequent genocidal acts of Israel in no way make the actions of Oct 7th any less awful.
go on benny whats the retrospective revisionism?
In the last page of posts here - "The goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world".
Quote from: bennydorano on February 23, 2024, 12:03:20 PMIn the last page of posts here - "The goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world".
Sorry, I ignore seafoid for the most part. Anything else? I would agrue that your response that there was no thought for their own people and uber blood sacrifice is also way off the mark...
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 23, 2024, 12:09:35 PMQuote from: bennydorano on February 23, 2024, 12:03:20 PMIn the last page of posts here - "The goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world".
Sorry, I ignore seafoid for the most part. Anything else? I would agrue that your response that there was no thought for own people and user blood sacrifice is also way off the mark...
The 29,000+ dead & millions displaced & homeless might disagree with you on that - if they could. I expected savage ruthlessness from Israel in response (they've surpassed that tenfold), what did Hamas expect?
Can't say anything that happens or has happened is a supprise.
It is like it is a game that may be played by Dungeon and Dragons players just to play something different.
AS Shakespeare said, A plague on both your houses
Quote from: Main Street on February 22, 2024, 11:31:37 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 22, 2024, 10:08:19 PMThe goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world. Today the Attorney general spoke at the ICJ about Israeli settlers. Mission accomplished.
If that was the goal of oct 7, then it was a perverse masochistic act where Hamas leadership knowing their militia could in no way protect the Palestinian civilians, deliberately provoked the reaction of Israel and expected the mass slaughter of the innocents but were at peace with that plan because it would show the true face of Israel to the world?
That would point to Hamas leadership cynically and sadistically not giving a damn about the slaughter of the innocents but look to the propaganda value of such
Maybe that played a part, who knows with Hamas.
I would also look to who also benefits from this imposed conflict, namely the barely concealed hidden hands of Iran, Syria and Russia.
It really wasn't. Netanyahu had convinced Israelis that the Palestinian issue was sorted out. A security system kept them locked up. Saudi was about to sign a deal with Israel. the arabs didn't care.
Everything is different now.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 23, 2024, 12:09:35 PMQuote from: bennydorano on February 23, 2024, 12:03:20 PMIn the last page of posts here - "The goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world".
Sorry, I ignore seafoid for the most part. Anything else? I would agrue that your response that there was no thought for their own people and uber blood sacrifice is also way off the mark...
Benny was clearly at the Hamas October 7th planning meetings
Quote from: bennydorano on February 23, 2024, 12:24:15 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 23, 2024, 12:09:35 PMQuote from: bennydorano on February 23, 2024, 12:03:20 PMIn the last page of posts here - "The goal of Oct 7 was to show the true face of Israel to the world".
Sorry, I ignore seafoid for the most part. Anything else? I would agrue that your response that there was no thought for own people and user blood sacrifice is also way off the mark...
The 29,000+ dead & millions displaced & homeless might disagree with you on that - if they could. I expected savage ruthlessness from Israel in response (they've surpassed that tenfold), what did Hamas expect?
so even your expectation of Israeli response is tenfold, I doubt anyone (including Hamas) would have expected the level of moral cowardice of the Us/Uk/EU and that they actually support and arm Israel in its ongoing genocide.
I cannot tell what Hamas expected, its not something I remember them commenting on but I might try and read their statements again, but as above I doubt they expected a genocide supported by the West.
Israeli media at it again:
https://www.balls.ie/football/ireland-israel-u17-fai-statement-588657
Quote from: weareros on February 23, 2024, 02:32:45 PMIsraeli media at it again:
https://www.balls.ie/football/ireland-israel-u17-fai-statement-588657
The real story is why are we playing this apartheid state. I suppose it's a stretch to ask the FAI to do the right thing such are the complete clowns who are in charge of that organisation.
Netanyahu has issued a document called "the Day after Hamas-Principles" and it is what you would expect from a sociopath
https://www.timesofisrael.com/presenting-post-war-plan-to-cabinet-pm-aims-for-local-officials-to-govern-gaza/
Netanyahu presents post-war plan to cabinet, aims for 'local officials' to govern Gaza
'Day after Hamas' paper sees Egypt cooperation to end smuggling; Arab countries funding reconstruction; no unilateral Palestinian state; no UNRWA; Gaza 'de-radicalized,' demilitarized
By JACOB MAGID FOLLOW
23 February 2024, 4:59 am
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented the security cabinet with a document of principles regarding the management of Gaza after the war on Thursday night, aiming to install "local officials" unaffiliated with terrorism to administer services in the Strip instead of Hamas.
The subsequently publicized document, a one-pager entitled "The Day After Hamas" released overnight in Israel, is largely a collection of principles the premier has been vocalizing since the beginning of the war, but it is the first time they have formally been presented to the cabinet for approval.
For over four months, Netanyahu has held off holding security cabinet discussions regarding the so-called "day after" the war, fearing this could lead to fractures in his mainly right-wing coalition. Some of his far-right ministers aim to use such meetings to push for the re-establishment of Israeli settlements in Gaza and the permanent Israeli control of the Strip — policies the premier says he opposes and would surely lead to the dissipation of Israel's remaining support in the West.
Netanyahu has sufficed with saying that he will not allow the Palestinian Authority to return to govern Gaza. He has sometimes qualified this assertion by saying that Israel won't allow the PA in its current form to return to the Palestinian enclave, indicating that Israel could live with a reformed PA of the kind that the Biden administration has been pushing. Other times, though, Netanyahu has given a more blanket rejection of allowing Gaza to become "Fatahstan" — referring to the political party headed by PA President Mahmoud Abbas.
Notably, the document of principles Netanyahu presented to security cabinet ministers at Thursday night's meeting does not specifically name the PA or rule out its participation in the post-war governance of Gaza.
Instead, it says that civil affairs in Gaza will be run by "local officials" who have "administrative experience" and who are not tied to "countries or entities that support terrorism."
People walk along a street ravaged by Israeli strikes in Gaza City on February 10, 2024. (AFP)
The language is vague, but it could rule out groups that receive funding from Qatar and Iran — as Hamas does — or possibly the PA, whose welfare program includes payments to convicted terrorists and their families.
A statement from Netanyahu's office said the document is based on principles broadly accepted by the public and that it will serve as the basis for future discussions regarding the post-war management of Gaza.
ADVERTISEMENT
The plan begins by stipulating a principle for the immediate term: The IDF will continue the war until achieving its goals, which are the destruction of the military capabilities and governmental infrastructure of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the return of the hostages abducted on October 7, and the removal of any security threat from Gaza Strip long-term.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's 'The Day After Hamas' document, February 22, 2024 (Courtesy)
The IDF will maintain an indefinite freedom to operate throughout the entire Strip to prevent the resurgence of terror activity, the document says, describing this as an intermediate-term principle.
The plan states that Israel will move forward with its already-in-motion project to establish a security buffer zone on the Palestinian side of the Strip's border, adding that it will remain in place "as long as there is a security need for it."
This plan is directly at odds with one of the Biden administration's own principles for post-war Gaza, which states that there will be no reduction in the enclave's territory.
The document presented by Netanyahu also offers the most concrete details to date regarding Israel's plans for the Egyptian-Gaza border, which has been plagued by smuggling both above and below ground. It states that Israel will enforce a "southern closure" on the border to prevent the revival of terror activity.
IDF soldiers operate inside the Gaza Strip in an undated photo published on February 22, 2024. (Israel Defense Forces)
The closure will be upheld with assistance from the US and in cooperation with Egypt "as much as possible," the document states, in an apparent acknowledgment of Cairo's disapproval of the plan due to the ostensible violation of its sovereignty.
ADVERTISEMENT
Cairo has pushed back against Israeli calls to take over control over the Philadelphi corridor along the Egypt-Gaza border but privately has indicated more flexibility, US and Arab diplomats have told The Times of Israel. Both the US and Egypt, however, are less likely to cooperate with such plans that are not part of a broader initiative aimed at creating a pathway toward an eventual Palestinian state — something Netanyahu rejects.
The document added that the "southern closure will be made up of measures aimed at preventing smuggling from Egypt — both underground and above ground, including at the Rafah crossing."
Also in the intermediate stage, Israel will maintain security control "over the entire area west of Jordan," from the land, air and sea "to prevent the strengthening of terrorist elements in the [West Bank] and the Gaza Strip and to thwart threats from them towards Israel," the document states.
Netanyahu's plan envisions Gaza's "complete demilitarization... beyond what is required for the needs of maintaining public order." It adds that Israel will be responsible for realizing this goal for the foreseeable future, potentially leaving the door open for other forces to finish the job down the line.
A Palestinian walks through the rubble of the Khatab family building after an Israeli airstrike in Deir al Balah, Gaza Strip, Wednesday, Feb. 21, 2024. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)
In addition to the "local officials" whom Netanyahu envisions being responsible for public order and for providing civil services, the document adds that Israel will also promote a "de-radicalization plan... in all religious, educational and welfare institutions in Gaza."
This too will be advanced "as much as possible with the involvement and assistance of Arab countries that have experience in promoting de-radicalization."
This line appears to be a nod at Gulf countries like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, but both have repeatedly made clear that they will not play any role in the rehabilitation of Gaza unless it is part of a framework aimed at an eventual two-state solution.
Analysts have also expressed heavy skepticism of Netanyahu's goal to anoint unaffiliated Palestinian clan leaders, noting the likelihood that any Palestinian community leaders seen openly and unilaterally cooperating with Israel will quickly be delegitimized and possibly find their lives at risk. They say a similar effort was advanced by the United States after it invaded Iraq two decades ago only to backfire.
ADVERTISEMENT
Accordingly, the international community is pushing for the PA to eventually govern Gaza, given that it already has some of the infrastructure in place to do so. Its legitimacy among Palestinians is lacking, but the stakeholders are hoping that this will change after it institutes a series of reforms.
Flares above Khan Yunis, in the southern Gaza Strip, February 20, 2024 (Atia Mohammed/Flash90)
An Israeli official revealed earlier Thursday that this aspect of the plan is already being advanced, and argued that the PA should not be included in post-war governance, noting its failure to condemn the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel, when thousands of Hamas-led terrorists went on a murderous rampage across southern Israel, killing 1,200 and taking 253 hostages.
Another key aspect of Netanyahu's document of principles is the shuttering of the UN relief agency for Palestinian refugees, UNRWA. The document notes the alleged involvement of 12 UNRWA staffers in the October 7 onslaught and says Israel will work to replace the agency with "responsible international aid organizations.
In the short term, however, a senior Israeli official briefing The Times of Israel last month said that Jerusalem opposes UNRWA's immediate dissolution. The official explained that UNRWA currently is the main aid distribution organization on the ground and that its shuttering risks a humanitarian catastrophe that could force Israel to cease its fighting against Hamas.
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken (left) and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas shake hands during their meeting in the West Bank town of Ramallah, February 7, 2024. (Mark Schiefelbein/AP)
Notably, the document clarified that Israel will only allow the reconstruction of Gaza to begin after the completion of the Strip's de-militarization and the commencement of the "de-radicalization process."
"The rehabilitation plan will be financed and led by countries acceptable to Israel," the document states, again coming at odds with many of the countries seen as potential donors, who demand that Gaza's reconstruction be in tandem to a political horizon for the Palestinians.
Netanyahu's plan concludes by reiterating a pair of principles adopted earlier this week by both the cabinet and the Knesset: that Israel outright rejects any international dictates regarding a permanent settlement with the Palestinians, which should only be reached through direct negotiations between the parties, without preconditions; and that Israel will continue to oppose the unilateral recognition of a Palestinian state, which it views as a "reward for terror."
Some videos from the last while
We are looking for babies but there is no babies left
https://t.co/fFGM2YEAfs
The Israelis used her as bait, they set them up
https://twitter.com/mockgoose/status/1760346054258463055
I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza
https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1760372482983567558
Bouncy castle other side of wall to prevent trucks of humanitarian aid from entering Gaza.
https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1761147220164845777
The authors of the NYT October 7th Hamas rape report. Both Zionists. One of whom has publicly admitted lying about another story he published, another of whom it was her first ever piece of journalism (and who has "liked" posts about slaughtering Palestinians ) The paper of record....
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1761453344898342927.html (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1761453344898342927.html)
Excellent in-depth article from The Intercept on that NYT article on alleged mass rapes on Oct 7th.
https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/
Grim reading on children dying of starvation in what is now a famine in Gaza.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/opinion/gaza-israel-palestinians-starvation.html
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 29, 2024, 02:02:49 PMGrim reading on children dying of starvation in what is now a famine in Gaza.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/opinion/gaza-israel-palestinians-starvation.html
Plenty of food, Israel isn't letting it in.
Genocide on any level whilst the Western world looks on.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 29, 2024, 02:39:12 PMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 29, 2024, 02:02:49 PMGrim reading on children dying of starvation in what is now a famine in Gaza.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/opinion/gaza-israel-palestinians-starvation.html
Plenty of food, Israel isn't letting it in.
Genocide on any level whilst the Western world looks on.
Israeli snipers are shooting at desperate people
Some Israeli spokesman on RTE claimed only 16% of food consignments had been held up.
They lie all the time
Quote from: johnnycool on February 29, 2024, 02:39:12 PMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 29, 2024, 02:02:49 PMGrim reading on children dying of starvation in what is now a famine in Gaza.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/opinion/gaza-israel-palestinians-starvation.html
Plenty of food, Israel isn't letting it in.
Genocide on any level whilst the Western world looks on.
Looks on?? Actively facilitates in many cases
Genocidal regimes don't tend to have a long shelf life in the modern era. The Khmer Rouge, Interahamwe and Nazi Party were all removed from power.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 29, 2024, 02:39:12 PMQuote from: Jell 0 Biafra on February 29, 2024, 02:02:49 PMGrim reading on children dying of starvation in what is now a famine in Gaza.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/29/opinion/gaza-israel-palestinians-starvation.html
Plenty of food, Israel isn't letting it in.
Yeah, the article says this.
And now a worse war crime - shooting starving people as they sought food.
Keir Starmer has welded the UK Labour party to genocidal Israel.
"Two things are infinite," Albert Einstein said. "The universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe."
Quote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 03:18:18 PMGenocidal regimes don't tend to have a long shelf life in the modern era. The Khmer Rouge, Interahamwe and Nazi Party were all removed from power.
Unless some prominent nation has the balls to call out the Israeli Government / IDF for the shower of absolute tramps they are hard to see things changing soon. Everyday goes by Netanyahu makes Putin look like Mother Teresa.
How long will it take for Varadkar and Martin's balls to drop?
Quote from: LC on February 29, 2024, 08:51:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 03:18:18 PMGenocidal regimes don't tend to have a long shelf life in the modern era. The Khmer Rouge, Interahamwe and Nazi Party were all removed from power.
Unless some prominent nation has the balls to call out the Israeli Government / IDF for the shower of absolute tramps they are hard to see things changing soon. Everyday goes by Netanyahu makes Putin look like Mother Teresa.
Israel is deteriorating on a daily basis. Biden thinks he can support Israel and get reelected. Let's just say that is a long time to November.
Quote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 09:38:51 PMQuote from: LC on February 29, 2024, 08:51:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 03:18:18 PMGenocidal regimes don't tend to have a long shelf life in the modern era. The Khmer Rouge, Interahamwe and Nazi Party were all removed from power.
Unless some prominent nation has the balls to call out the Israeli Government / IDF for the shower of absolute tramps they are hard to see things changing soon. Everyday goes by Netanyahu makes Putin look like Mother Teresa.
Israel is deteriorating on a daily basis. Biden thinks he can support Israel and get reelected. Let's just say that is a long time to November.
Genocide Joe has a real head scratcher on the horizon
Quote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 09:38:51 PMQuote from: LC on February 29, 2024, 08:51:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 03:18:18 PMGenocidal regimes don't tend to have a long shelf life in the modern era. The Khmer Rouge, Interahamwe and Nazi Party were all removed from power.
Unless some prominent nation has the balls to call out the Israeli Government / IDF for the shower of absolute tramps they are hard to see things changing soon. Everyday goes by Netanyahu makes Putin look like Mother Teresa.
Israel is deteriorating on a daily basis. Biden thinks he can support Israel and get reelected. Let's just say that is a long time to November.
Bidens useless but Trump would be no better on the Israel question
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 29, 2024, 10:17:25 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 09:38:51 PMQuote from: LC on February 29, 2024, 08:51:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 03:18:18 PMGenocidal regimes don't tend to have a long shelf life in the modern era. The Khmer Rouge, Interahamwe and Nazi Party were all removed from power.
Unless some prominent nation has the balls to call out the Israeli Government / IDF for the shower of absolute tramps they are hard to see things changing soon. Everyday goes by Netanyahu makes Putin look like Mother Teresa.
Israel is deteriorating on a daily basis. Biden thinks he can support Israel and get reelected. Let's just say that is a long time to November.
Bidens useless but Trump would be no better on the Israel question
Trump would be absolutely worse. The evangelical Christian base of the Republican party believe that the founding of the State of Israel is a sign of the end times and Jesus returning. They have no interest in anything like a Palestinian state. At least there is some desire for a solution on the Democratic side.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/us/american-evangelicals-israel-hamas.html
You would expect that western politicians given the values they espouse should be apoplectic with Israel to the point that they force their hand. The fact this is not happening is a massive 'tell' in regard to the Zionist influence in all western countries now. They have it completely gamed.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 01, 2024, 09:51:03 AMYou would expect that western politicians given the values they espouse should be apoplectic with Israel to the point that they force their hand. The fact this is not happening is a massive 'tell' in regard to the Zionist influence in all western countries now. They have it completely gamed.
And how dare anyone call Israel out without the anti-Semitic card being played? Wrong is wrong regardless of who commits these acts of pure evil.
The antisemitic card is knackered. Israel is as bad as Cromwell.
Quote from: dec on February 29, 2024, 10:29:50 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 29, 2024, 10:17:25 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 09:38:51 PMQuote from: LC on February 29, 2024, 08:51:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 03:18:18 PMGenocidal regimes don't tend to have a long shelf life in the modern era. The Khmer Rouge, Interahamwe and Nazi Party were all removed from power.
Unless some prominent nation has the balls to call out the Israeli Government / IDF for the shower of absolute tramps they are hard to see things changing soon. Everyday goes by Netanyahu makes Putin look like Mother Teresa.
Israel is deteriorating on a daily basis. Biden thinks he can support Israel and get reelected. Let's just say that is a long time to November.
Bidens useless but Trump would be no better on the Israel question
Trump would be absolutely worse. The evangelical Christian base of the Republican party believe that the founding of the State of Israel is a sign of the end times and Jesus returning. They have no interest in anything like a Palestinian state. At least there is some desire for a solution on the Democratic side.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/us/american-evangelicals-israel-hamas.html
Worse, I'm not so sure. Since Biden's come in weve had war in Ukraine and genocide in Gaza. Trump is an evil cnut. Biden is every bit as bad. I hope both of them die roaring.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2024, 11:07:45 AMQuote from: theskull1 on March 01, 2024, 09:51:03 AMYou would expect that western politicians given the values they espouse should be apoplectic with Israel to the point that they force their hand. The fact this is not happening is a massive 'tell' in regard to the Zionist influence in all western countries now. They have it completely gamed.
And how dare anyone call Israel out without the anti-Semitic card being played? Wrong is wrong regardless of who commits these acts of pure evil.
The fear of being tarred as antisemitic within the British political class is real, but as Seafoid is pointing out it is indeed losing its potency as most with a titter of wit can see its being used as cover to allow the Israeli government to commit genocide
Quote from: johnnycool on March 01, 2024, 08:25:18 PMQuote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 01, 2024, 11:07:45 AMQuote from: theskull1 on March 01, 2024, 09:51:03 AMYou would expect that western politicians given the values they espouse should be apoplectic with Israel to the point that they force their hand. The fact this is not happening is a massive 'tell' in regard to the Zionist influence in all western countries now. They have it completely gamed.
And how dare anyone call Israel out without the anti-Semitic card being played? Wrong is wrong regardless of who commits these acts of pure evil.
The fear of being tarred as antisemitic within the British political class is real, but as Seafoid is pointing out it is indeed losing its potency as most with a titter of wit can see its being used as cover to allow the Israeli government to commit genocide
The genocide thing has been evident for weeks now, it's the type of genocide. Starving by cutting off aid and indiscriminate shooting of hungry groups of civilians. Isreal and I'm counting it's allies to are getting into Pol Pot territory now. We have to believe that they will get some just rewards should it be in the form of the ICJ or maybe in the deaths kingdom.
Has Ireland not booted thst ambassodor out yet?
As a matter of fact, has any country?
I think one or two of the South American countries have. Colombia maybe?
Germany up next on genocide charges at the ICJ. Case being brought by Nicaragua.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/2/nicaragua-drags-germany-to-icj-for-facilitating-israels-genocide-in-gaza
Quote from: marty34 on March 02, 2024, 07:30:00 AMHas Ireland not booted thst ambassodor out yet?
As a matter of fact, has any country?
Yes a few have.
Mehole and Varadkar won't want to piss off their EU masters and miss out on handy jobs in a few years. Ambassador should have been chased from the place years ago.
Could the title of this thread not be changed to Israel genocide in Gaza?
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2024, 01:36:55 PMMehole and Varadkar won't want to piss off their EU masters and miss out on handy jobs in a few years. Ambassador should have been chased from the place years ago.
Could the title of this thread not be changed to Israel genocide in Gaza?
Definitely and impartial media outlets should be addressing it as such as well.
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2024, 05:37:13 PMQuote from: dec on February 29, 2024, 10:29:50 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on February 29, 2024, 10:17:25 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 09:38:51 PMQuote from: LC on February 29, 2024, 08:51:49 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 29, 2024, 03:18:18 PMGenocidal regimes don't tend to have a long shelf life in the modern era. The Khmer Rouge, Interahamwe and Nazi Party were all removed from power.
Unless some prominent nation has the balls to call out the Israeli Government / IDF for the shower of absolute tramps they are hard to see things changing soon. Everyday goes by Netanyahu makes Putin look like Mother Teresa.
Israel is deteriorating on a daily basis. Biden thinks he can support Israel and get reelected. Let's just say that is a long time to November.
Bidens useless but Trump would be no better on the Israel question
Trump would be absolutely worse. The evangelical Christian base of the Republican party believe that the founding of the State of Israel is a sign of the end times and Jesus returning. They have no interest in anything like a Palestinian state. At least there is some desire for a solution on the Democratic side.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/us/american-evangelicals-israel-hamas.html
Worse, I'm not so sure. Since Biden's come in weve had war in Ukraine and genocide in Gaza. Trump is an evil cnut. Biden is every bit as bad. I hope both of them die roaring.
The war in Ukraine is on Putin. Trump's idea for preventing war is just appease him on everything.
Biden on Gaza though, I'd agree with you. Sickening.
Gaza could lose Biden the election. It is already damaging Starmer.
Biden I think was struggling anyway in the election stakes, but his attitude to Gaza will sink him. Not that trump be any benefit, I think he actually be worse, but alot of Biden voters might just not vote,
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2024, 05:49:29 PMGaza could lose Biden the election. It is already damaging Starmer.
The funny thing is the other side would be as bad or worse in both cases. If either had a set of balls or a shred of decency between them they'd take a proper stand.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2024, 09:08:50 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 02, 2024, 05:49:29 PMGaza could lose Biden the election. It is already damaging Starmer.
The funny thing is the other side would be as bad or worse in both cases. If either had a set of balls or a shred of decency between them they'd take a proper stand.
It's quite depressing that the "world leaders" don't seem to have any moral courage.
I thought the world had advanced, but people are still willing to turn a blind eye to inconvenient atrocities.
Quote from: Tubberman on March 03, 2024, 09:53:17 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2024, 09:08:50 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 02, 2024, 05:49:29 PMGaza could lose Biden the election. It is already damaging Starmer.
The funny thing is the other side would be as bad or worse in both cases. If either had a set of balls or a shred of decency between them they'd take a proper stand.
It's quite depressing that the "world leaders" don't seem to have any moral courage.
I thought the world had advanced, but people are still willing to turn a blind eye to inconvenient atrocities.
and to this day people wonder how the Nazis got away with it.
Sadly when we say World Leaders we have a lad in the UK who has never run for PM in an election, who replaced another lad who was the same. He is too busy firefighting at home.
The USA is amoral and with Trump looming the Democrats don't want to lose any pro-Israel money. Again, minding their own house.
In other words the Conservative Party and the Democrats are more important than thousands being slaughtered. That's just two players and others will take the lead from the USA.
It's just perverse that aid is being dropped along with weapons supplied by the same notion...
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on March 03, 2024, 11:32:33 AMSadly when we say World Leaders we have a lad in the UK who has never run for PM in an election, who replaced another lad who was the same. He is too busy firefighting at home.
The USA is amoral and with Trump looming the Democrats don't want to lose any pro-Israel money. Again, minding their own house.
In other words the Conservative Party and the Democrats are more important than thousands being slaughtered. That's just two players and others will take the lead from the USA.
It's just perverse that aid is being dropped along with weapons supplied by the same notion...
The leaders of Germany, the UK and the US are not acting in their own self interest.
Quote from: seafoid on March 03, 2024, 02:53:46 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on March 03, 2024, 11:32:33 AMSadly when we say World Leaders we have a lad in the UK who has never run for PM in an election, who replaced another lad who was the same. He is too busy firefighting at home.
The USA is amoral and with Trump looming the Democrats don't want to lose any pro-Israel money. Again, minding their own house.
In other words the Conservative Party and the Democrats are more important than thousands being slaughtered. That's just two players and others will take the lead from the USA.
It's just perverse that aid is being dropped along with weapons supplied by the same notion...
The leaders of Germany, the UK and the US are not acting in their own self interest.
That depends.
Billions of dollars of "aid" is being paid by the tax payers in said countries to the Military–industrial complex cohort of companies who are only too glad to give countries, any country capable of firing their weapons on unarmed civilians who're starving to death.
I'm beginning to question what democracy in the west actually looks like.
Could someone with a totally different message really get into power in the US or indeed the UK? I really don't think so.
George Galloway to be sworn in as an MP today
Will be interesting to see how things go over the next while
The fact that Sunak held a press conference straightaway after the election result says it all. They won't want him highlighting their continued support for Israel
I wonder will George do is swearing in with the voice of a pussy cat?
What was Sunak's speech about on friday night? He really is a cretin of a man tbh. I think he has no more scruples than Johnson. I didn't think that was even possible but the tories can keep finding them.
Galloway an interesting one that's thrown the cat amongst the pigeons. He has a very poor record of attendance in parliament. Second only to SF apparently. I hope he throws the cat amongst the pigeons in westminster but it looks like all anyone gets is one question to Sunak a week who doesn't even answer the question anyway so it's nothing more than a circus.
(Any right thinking person , unionist or nationalist, would in the interest of themselves want away from these guys because they are robbing everyone blind and then claiming the country is broke...)
It' sickening and sickening to watch helplessly. Cannot for the life of me understand why other nations in the ME are standing doing nothing. Especially Egypt. Surely evacuating women and children would be an easy start.
In years to come people will look and ask why countries did nothing...
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2024, 12:42:54 PMIt' sickening and sickening to watch helplessly. Cannot for the life of me understand why other nations in the ME are standing doing nothing. Especially Egypt. Surely evacuating women and children would be an easy start.
In years to come people will look and ask why countries did nothing...
Egypt taking in refugees is what Israel wants. That would be even tidier than genocide in removing Palestinians. Women and children removed would see a bigger massacre of left behind Men. Who would be labelled as Hamas. Media/society never pity a massacre of men.
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 04, 2024, 01:13:48 PMQuote from: trailer on March 04, 2024, 12:42:54 PMIt' sickening and sickening to watch helplessly. Cannot for the life of me understand why other nations in the ME are standing doing nothing. Especially Egypt. Surely evacuating women and children would be an easy start.
In years to come people will look and ask why countries did nothing...
Egypt taking in refugees is what Israel wants. That would be even tidier than genocide in removing Palestinians. Women and children removed would see a bigger massacre of left behind Men. Who would be labelled as Hamas. Media/society never pity a massacre of men.
f**k I don't know. I can't even watch the news. Absolutely cruel.
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2024, 12:42:54 PMIt' sickening and sickening to watch helplessly. Cannot for the life of me understand why other nations in the ME are standing doing nothing. Especially Egypt. Surely evacuating women and children would be an easy start.
In years to come people will look and ask why countries did nothing...
The Egyptian army is sponsored by the Americans under the terms of the 1979 Camp David peace treaty that Sadat negotiated. I think they get around $1.5bn a year for the army. The other part of the treaty was the establishment of a Palestinian State but Israel ignored it.
Egypt is fairly fragile. They cannot aford to take any refugees, not that they should in the first place. Everyone is waiting to see what the Yanks do.
There's no need to wait. We're already seeing in live time exactly what the US is doing.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2024, 12:39:19 PMWhat was Sunak's speech about on friday night? He really is a cretin of a man tbh. I think he has no more scruples than Johnson. I didn't think that was even possible but the tories can keep finding them.
Galloway an interesting one that's thrown the cat amongst the pigeons. He has a very poor record of attendance in parliament. Second only to SF apparently. I hope he throws the cat amongst the pigeons in westminster but it looks like all anyone gets is one question to Sunak a week who doesn't even answer the question anyway so it's nothing more than a circus.
(Any right thinking person , unionist or nationalist, would in the interest of themselves want away from these guys because they are robbing everyone blind and then claiming the country is broke...)
Basically , don't listen to George Galloway , and we're going to give police more powers to deal with pro-Palestine rallies.
Getting in there early doors , and controlling the narrative
The absolute state of this speech
The man is an absolute moron. He has no idea what he is at.
Quote from: seafoid on March 04, 2024, 01:23:18 PMQuote from: trailer on March 04, 2024, 12:42:54 PMIt' sickening and sickening to watch helplessly. Cannot for the life of me understand why other nations in the ME are standing doing nothing. Especially Egypt. Surely evacuating women and children would be an easy start.
In years to come people will look and ask why countries did nothing...
The Egyptian army is sponsored by the Americans under the terms of the 1979 Camp David peace treaty that Sadat negotiated. I think they get around $1.5bn a year for the army. The other part of the treaty was the establishment of a Palestinian State but Israel ignored it.
Egypt is fairly fragile. They cannot aford to take any refugees, not that they should in the first place. Everyone is waiting to see what the Yanks do.
The Egyptian Army run Egypt.
Just look to what happened post the Arab spring elections which led to the Muslim Brotherhood gaining power ever so briefly to be overthrown by the Egyptian Army...
Democracy you say!
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 04, 2024, 01:32:44 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on March 04, 2024, 12:39:19 PMWhat was Sunak's speech about on friday night? He really is a cretin of a man tbh. I think he has no more scruples than Johnson. I didn't think that was even possible but the tories can keep finding them.
Galloway an interesting one that's thrown the cat amongst the pigeons. He has a very poor record of attendance in parliament. Second only to SF apparently. I hope he throws the cat amongst the pigeons in westminster but it looks like all anyone gets is one question to Sunak a week who doesn't even answer the question anyway so it's nothing more than a circus.
(Any right thinking person , unionist or nationalist, would in the interest of themselves want away from these guys because they are robbing everyone blind and then claiming the country is broke...)
Basically , don't listen to George Galloway , and we're going to give police more powers to deal with pro-Palestine rallies.
Getting in there early doors , and controlling the narrative
The Israeli lobby controls the 2 big parties in the UK
The whole of Europe you mean?
The conspiracy theory suggestion that Mossad ran Jeffrey Epstein with the purpose of entrapping the movers and shakers in western society does not seem so unbelievable.
UN backs Israel rape story without any firsthand victim accounts and no digital evidence https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22364102/
This tells you all you need to know.
The U.N. team asked the government of Israel to give access to other U.N. bodies, including the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights and the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the occupied Palestinian Territory, so they can conduct thorough independent investigations into these allegations.
The Foreign Ministry spokesman, Lior Haiat, said, "Israel rejects the report's call to investigate Palestinian claims regarding 'sexual violence by Israeli elements.'"
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/04/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-un-report-sexual-violence.html
https://twitter.com/democracynow/status/1762831846822260753
Krystal and Saagar discuss local Israelis debunking their recent NYT Hamas Oct 7 article where they stand by their story. Shameful
Norwegian aid worker Jan Egelund on the intensity of the bombing
https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1762543820992872520
15 children died of malnutrition yesterday. 14 trucks were blocked by Israel.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/historic-palestine-friendly-set-dalymount-32275486
Palestine's women's national team will travel to Dublin in May to face Women's League of Ireland side Bohemians in a historic friendly match.
Bohemians will host the Palestinian women's team in a friendly on May 15, the Dublin side confirmed on Tuesday - with more games likely in the future.
An agreement between Bohs and the Palestinian Football Association will see the two teams face off in a match to mark the 76th anniversary of Nakba, with the Phibsborough side declaring their 'intention to shed light on the human rights situation in occupied Palestine'.
by TaboolaSponsored Link
Can €500,000 Last 30 Years Into Retirement?
Fisher Investments Ireland
Funds raised through the match will be used to facilitate the visit of the Palestinian football team as well as provide funds for humanitarian relief efforts in Palestine.
The game was signed off yesterday after a meeting between the President of the Palestine Football Association (PFA), Lt. General Jibril Al-Rjoub, and Daniel Lambert, Chief Operations Officer of Bohs, and Seán McCabe, Head of Climate Justice and Sustainability from the Bohemian Football Club.
According to a statement released by the Irish side, the purpose of the meeting was to 'discuss collaboration opportunities'.
It read: "President Al-Rjoub also explored potential areas of collaboration between the Football Association and Bohemian FC and a possible signing of a MoU to strengthen the historical ties between Irish and Palestinian people."
"We hope that this game can highlight the positive power of football and raise significant funds to further support humanitarian efforts in Palestine, as well as covering costs for the women's team to travel to Ireland.
"We will be announcing a series of events around the game in due course, as well as ticketing information, and hope to see a sold out Dalymount Park in solidarity with the women of the Palestinian national team and their nation."
Bohs had previously raised funds for Sport for Life Palestine through sales of their 2023 away shirt, which helped provide access to sports for children in the city of Tulkarem in the West Bank.
Club President Matt Devaney welcomed the announcement of the May fixture.
He said: "I would like to thank Ambassador Abdalmajid for her efforts in enabling this fixture and look forward to welcoming her and officials from the Palestinian FA to Dalymount Park and to hopefully raise a substantial sum to assist people in a truly dire situation."
And Ken Kiernan, Bohs women's team manager, added: "I am delighted to have the opportunity to play this fixture.
https://thegrayzone.com/2024/03/06/leaked-israel-lobby-officials-war-gaza-mass-rape/
A message to Joe Biden
https://twitter.com/BubblesToBurst/status/1766837787503055248
There was a lot of shouting and roaring about politicians going to DCfor St Patrick's Day but things are changing now,.
The US administration has asked Israel to hold an election
https://twitter.com/naftalibennett/status/1768307925607452974
https://twitter.com/moetkacik/status/1768323059612573946
https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/1768358454115131469
How Israel controls Governments
AIPAC HAS TOO MUCH CONTROL OVER OUR GOVT (https://x.com/RyanRozbiani/status/1769443246894129617?t=TjoXL4L356RlRbM_l9bIrA&s=03)
If China or Russia, or Iran funded almost EVERY member of Congress people would be freaking out.
Quote from: theskull1 on March 15, 2024, 12:37:03 PM
I listened to quite a bit of this and have a lot of time for Finkelstein but like all intellectuals if you are going to put someone down with "I've read more books than you" then it's not a good look although that Zionist lad hadn't a puff to be fair and was winding the life out of Finkelstein.
Bottom line with all Zionists is that if the Palestinians had of been nice and gave up 1/3 of their homeland back in 1947 then the Israeli state wouldn't have needed to be so bad to them over the years really is galling, but I suppose that's the colonial mindset all over.
Also Finkelstein is entirely right to point out to Zionists that the Jewish faith has no right to a homeland of their own and if anything he doubling down that even after WW2 and the holocaust that Europeans, UK and US didn't want the Jews either and were only too willing to support the annexation of Palestine for the fledgling "Jewish" state of Israel.
And we are where we are today.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 19, 2024, 09:13:52 AMQuote from: theskull1 on March 15, 2024, 12:37:03 PM
I listened to quite a bit of this and have a lot of time for Finkelstein but like all intellectuals if you are going to put someone down with "I've read more books than you" then it's not a good look although that Zionist lad hadn't a puff to be fair and was winding the life out of Finkelstein.
Bottom line with all Zionists is that if the Palestinians had of been nice and gave up 1/3 of their homeland back in 1947 then the Israeli state wouldn't have needed to be so bad to them over the years really is galling, but I suppose that's the colonial mindset all over.
Also Finkelstein is entirely right to point out to Zionists that the Jewish faith has no right to a homeland of their own and if anything he doubling down that even after WW2 and the holocaust that Europeans, UK and US didn't want the Jews either and were only too willing to support the annexation of Palestine for the fledgling "Jewish" state of Israel.
And we are where we are today.
It wouldn't have mattered what the Palestinians did in 1948. If the Poles had negotiated with the Nazis in 1939 Poland would still have been destoyed. Zionism is the same.
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2024, 11:58:10 AMQuote from: johnnycool on March 19, 2024, 09:13:52 AMQuote from: theskull1 on March 15, 2024, 12:37:03 PM
I listened to quite a bit of this and have a lot of time for Finkelstein but like all intellectuals if you are going to put someone down with "I've read more books than you" then it's not a good look although that Zionist lad hadn't a puff to be fair and was winding the life out of Finkelstein.
Bottom line with all Zionists is that if the Palestinians had of been nice and gave up 1/3 of their homeland back in 1947 then the Israeli state wouldn't have needed to be so bad to them over the years really is galling, but I suppose that's the colonial mindset all over.
Also Finkelstein is entirely right to point out to Zionists that the Jewish faith has no right to a homeland of their own and if anything he doubling down that even after WW2 and the holocaust that Europeans, UK and US didn't want the Jews either and were only too willing to support the annexation of Palestine for the fledgling "Jewish" state of Israel.
And we are where we are today.
It wouldn't have mattered what the Palestinians did in 1948. If the Poles had negotiated with the Nazis in 1939 Poland would still have been destoyed. Zionism is the same.
You and I both know that, but that's the type of bullshít they're peddling.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 19, 2024, 01:25:20 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 19, 2024, 11:58:10 AMQuote from: johnnycool on March 19, 2024, 09:13:52 AMQuote from: theskull1 on March 15, 2024, 12:37:03 PM
I listened to quite a bit of this and have a lot of time for Finkelstein but like all intellectuals if you are going to put someone down with "I've read more books than you" then it's not a good look although that Zionist lad hadn't a puff to be fair and was winding the life out of Finkelstein.
Bottom line with all Zionists is that if the Palestinians had of been nice and gave up 1/3 of their homeland back in 1947 then the Israeli state wouldn't have needed to be so bad to them over the years really is galling, but I suppose that's the colonial mindset all over.
Also Finkelstein is entirely right to point out to Zionists that the Jewish faith has no right to a homeland of their own and if anything he doubling down that even after WW2 and the holocaust that Europeans, UK and US didn't want the Jews either and were only too willing to support the annexation of Palestine for the fledgling "Jewish" state of Israel.
And we are where we are today.
It wouldn't have mattered what the Palestinians did in 1948. If the Poles had negotiated with the Nazis in 1939 Poland would still have been destoyed. Zionism is the same.
You and I both know that, but that's the type of bullshít they're peddling.
Yeah. Zionism is malignant narcissism. Same as Nazism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3zaA6BA_ls
Jonathan Cook's latest, on the complicity of Western media with the ongoing slaughter. Cook isn't great on every topic, but he lived in Israel for 20 years until quite recently, and he's always worth your time on Israel/Palestine.
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2024-03-20/media-genocide-gaza/
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 20, 2024, 10:25:11 PMJonathan Cook's latest, on the complicity of Western media with the ongoing slaughter. Cook isn't great on every topic, but he lived in Israel for 20 years until quite recently, and he's always worth your time on Israel/Palestine.
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2024-03-20/media-genocide-gaza/
Excellent article. Western mainstream media are a pathetic embarrassment to the once noble trade of journalism.
UN rapporteur calls for imposing sanctions against Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcw9W2iy4pY
Also, echoing other posts on earlier pages, I think it's way past time for the thread title to be changed.
Some light relief this evening with Iceland beating Israel 4-1 in the euro play offs.
The mood was not so sporting in the aftermath of the draw when Iceland coach, respected veteran Norwegian Age Hareide said among other things, "that he would have preferred not to play against Israel, but Iceland cannot refuse it due to impending punishments from UEFA. Hareide said that his opinion was that this game should not have been played because of the situation in Gaza and what the Israelis had done to women, children and other innocent citizens in the area."
naturally Israel zionists went apeshít, none other than zionist Avram Grant entered the domain
"I saw what Iceland's coach said. I don't know him personally, but I'm upset that he should mix sports with something he has no knowledge of. But I want to ask him a few questions. First, I would like to state that I am against the victimization of ordinary citizens and it saddens me when this happens.
But one must remember that it all started with the massacre of Hamas members. So I want to ask the coach: Why didn't you say anything about the massacre in Israel on October 7? Why didn't you say: I am broken because of all the women who were raped, because of the children who were beheaded, because of the old people who were burned alive? Because of parents who were shot in front of their children,"
Hounded by Israeli reporters at press conferences before the game tonight, Age replied
"I come from a nation where freedom of speech prevails and you can express your opinions. As for this, I think some of what I said got washed up in translation and taken out of context. I am interested in politics, I know all about the hostage situation, and I also said later that the hostages should be freed, the hostilities should be stopped and peace should be established. I come from a peaceful nation and do not take a position in politics. We play against footballers and that is the most important thing. Many of Israel's players have played across Europe and I have nothing against them."
Avram Grant called out the Iceland coach as a hypocrite
Do you understand what the Israelis have been through, will you shake their hand before and after the game tomorrow?
Age Hareide
"Yes of course these are footballers like us and I don't think it's right to get into political discussions around this game. They are often misunderstood in translation. I just wanted to say, we play football and we have to play this game. The tournaments and games have been planned for a long time and we didn't know who we would face. We are also going to play with Israeli footballers, not with the Israeli people, that is the most important thing."
And then there is the result Iceland 4-1 Israel
Israel is alone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeweRtx2SUw&t=259s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ajuhikl7A
A pity that it took over 32,400 dead Palestinians before Israel became alone, they should have been alone on the world stage a long, long time ago.
I thought it would happen 20 years ago..
Rüdiger Dornbusch, a US-based German economist, said : "The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.
Remember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:05:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.
No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..
It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.
It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.
You are talking out your hole by the way
Who said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Quote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:15:37 PMWho said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Israel did
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:11:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:05:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.
No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..
It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.
It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.
You are talking out your hole by the way
I never said that historians would be looking at the GAA board but now you say it they would find some really good examples of people swallowing any old lie to justify mass murder.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:11:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:05:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.
No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..
It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.
It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.
You are talking out your hole by the way
if it takes nothing away, why make such a stupid statement.
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:16:13 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:15:37 PMWho said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Israel did
did someone on the Board say it?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 30, 2024, 10:26:34 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:11:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:05:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.
No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..
It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.
It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.
You are talking out your hole by the way
if it takes nothing away, why make such a stupid statement.
Are you saying 30 plus thousand people would have been murdered in that period of time had the attacks not happened?
Saying people will feel stupid because they questioned whether a rocket hit a hospital from either group is a stupid post.
My post is purely highlighting a daft post
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:36:11 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 30, 2024, 10:26:34 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:11:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:05:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.
No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..
It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.
It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.
You are talking out your hole by the way
if it takes nothing away, why make such a stupid statement.
Are you saying 30 plus thousand people would have been murdered in that period of time had the attacks not happened?
Saying people will feel stupid because they questioned whether a rocket hit a hospital from either group is a stupid post.
My post is purely highlighting a daft post
I am saying 30k plus wouldnt have been murdered if Israel didn't occupy Palestine for 75 years plus. Blaming and the framing of Hamas being responsible for 30k plus murders because they resisted an occupation is a stupid and ignorant statement, aimed at absolving Israel and the west for their genocide.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 30, 2024, 10:47:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:36:11 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 30, 2024, 10:26:34 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:11:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:05:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.
No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..
It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.
It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.
You are talking out your hole by the way
if it takes nothing away, why make such a stupid statement.
Are you saying 30 plus thousand people would have been murdered in that period of time had the attacks not happened?
Saying people will feel stupid because they questioned whether a rocket hit a hospital from either group is a stupid post.
My post is purely highlighting a daft post
I am saying 30k plus wouldnt have been murdered if Israel didn't occupy Palestine for 75 years plus. Blaming and the framing of Hamas being responsible for 30k plus murders because they resisted an occupation is a stupid and ignorant statement, aimed at absolving Israel and the west for their genocide.
I'm absolving no one. They are your words.
I simply said that since the attacks over 30 thousand (and rising) deaths have happened and Gaza has been flattened with further refugees on top of refugees have been displaced
What Isreal have done is inexcusable and murder/genocide, hamas attack has allowed Israel the opportunity to do it quicker
Again I don't know anyone who's saying different.
But point scoring on who rocketed a hospital is all I'm talking about.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 11:05:39 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 30, 2024, 10:47:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:36:11 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 30, 2024, 10:26:34 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:11:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:05:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.
No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..
It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.
It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.
You are talking out your hole by the way
if it takes nothing away, why make such a stupid statement.
Are you saying 30 plus thousand people would have been murdered in that period of time had the attacks not happened?
Saying people will feel stupid because they questioned whether a rocket hit a hospital from either group is a stupid post.
My post is purely highlighting a daft post
I am saying 30k plus wouldnt have been murdered if Israel didn't occupy Palestine for 75 years plus. Blaming and the framing of Hamas being responsible for 30k plus murders because they resisted an occupation is a stupid and ignorant statement, aimed at absolving Israel and the west for their genocide.
I'm absolving no one. They are your words.
I simply said that since the attacks over 30 thousand (and rising) deaths have happened and Gaza has been flattened with further refugees on top of refugees have been displaced
What Isreal have done is inexcusable and murder/genocide, hamas attack has allowed Israel the opportunity to do it quicker
Again I don't know anyone who's saying different.
But point scoring on who rocketed a hospital is all I'm talking about.
The bit I have in bold and your initial response shows exactly how I've summarised it, you absolving the occupier.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 30, 2024, 11:14:56 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 11:05:39 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 30, 2024, 10:47:21 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:36:11 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 30, 2024, 10:26:34 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 10:11:53 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:05:43 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 09:27:51 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2024, 09:20:54 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 07:22:10 AMRemember the time some people came onto this thread and believed Israels story that Hamas's rocket struck that hospital in Gaza. You don't hear a lot from those posters now.
Seriously? Are you looking something from that post?
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive?
Nuts
Ah no, just the people who said that must feel very foolish now that Israel has pretty much levelled every hospital and school in the place and isn't even bothering to mention Hamas anymore.
Nothing foolish about 34000 lives lost. Very sad if you're looking some sort of response
When historians of the future look back at this grim period, surely a subplot will be how so many people believed the ridiculous lies of the main aggressor (Israel) and it wasn't until over 30k civilians were dead (almost half children) and the entire Gaza strip leveled and subjected to famine conditions that only then did some start to see the truth and realise the stories were lies. Of course some incapable of admitting they were wrong no matter how much evidence they see.
No one will look back at the GAA board and give a flying f**k about whether a rocket hit a hospital or not..
It will be the mass destruction of Gaza that people will care about.
It will be the ever extending death toll that's happening due to the initial attack by Hamas, this takes nothing away from the 70 plus years of continuous attacks by Israel in that region and current genocide that's happening.
You are talking out your hole by the way
if it takes nothing away, why make such a stupid statement.
Are you saying 30 plus thousand people would have been murdered in that period of time had the attacks not happened?
Saying people will feel stupid because they questioned whether a rocket hit a hospital from either group is a stupid post.
My post is purely highlighting a daft post
I am saying 30k plus wouldnt have been murdered if Israel didn't occupy Palestine for 75 years plus. Blaming and the framing of Hamas being responsible for 30k plus murders because they resisted an occupation is a stupid and ignorant statement, aimed at absolving Israel and the west for their genocide.
I'm absolving no one. They are your words.
I simply said that since the attacks over 30 thousand (and rising) deaths have happened and Gaza has been flattened with further refugees on top of refugees have been displaced
What Isreal have done is inexcusable and murder/genocide, hamas attack has allowed Israel the opportunity to do it quicker
Again I don't know anyone who's saying different.
But point scoring on who rocketed a hospital is all I'm talking about.
The bit I have in bold and your initial response shows exactly how I've summarised it, you absolving the occupier.
Whatever..people see what they want in life.
I never want to see people absolving those who occupy and commit a genocide. Your words..
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive
It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas
I'm happy to stand over my post, the initial attacks have given Israel the 'excuse' to obliterate Gazza, I've also said that they have done that for 70 plus years, but the attacks have been used to speed things up.
Do you think that since the time of the attacks so many people would have been murdered and Gazza flattened?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 12:06:03 AMI'm happy to stand over my post, the initial attacks have given Israel the 'excuse' to obliterate Gazza, I've also said that they have done that for 70 plus years, but the attacks have been used to speed things up.
Do you think that since the time of the attacks so many people would have been murdered and Gazza flattened?
ofcourse you are happy to stand over them, you see resistence to an occupation as the issue and trigger and 'excuse' not the occupation, fixating on Oct.7.
The occupation is the cause and the resistence is a reaction to it. I hoped the US/UK/EU wouldn't support never mind arm a genocide, especially given how anti occupation they had become but they have let Israel murder with impunity
Has Ireland not booted out that Ambassador yet? Send her packing.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 12:19:28 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 12:06:03 AMI'm happy to stand over my post, the initial attacks have given Israel the 'excuse' to obliterate Gazza, I've also said that they have done that for 70 plus years, but the attacks have been used to speed things up.
Do you think that since the time of the attacks so many people would have been murdered and Gazza flattened?
ofcourse you are happy to stand over them, you see resistence to an occupation as the issue and trigger and 'excuse' not the occupation, fixating on Oct.7.
The occupation is the cause and the resistence is a reaction to it. I hoped the US/UK/EU wouldn't support never mind arm a genocide, especially given how anti occupation they had become but they have let Israel murder with impunity
Not going down a rabbit hole here. My initial post at this particular time was point scoring with the rocket attack at the hospital and people will feel foolish!
You've avoided my question, not surprising. So I'm done with chasing it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 10:44:39 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 12:19:28 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 12:06:03 AMI'm happy to stand over my post, the initial attacks have given Israel the 'excuse' to obliterate Gazza, I've also said that they have done that for 70 plus years, but the attacks have been used to speed things up.
Do you think that since the time of the attacks so many people would have been murdered and Gazza flattened?
ofcourse you are happy to stand over them, you see resistence to an occupation as the issue and trigger and 'excuse' not the occupation, fixating on Oct.7.
The occupation is the cause and the resistence is a reaction to it. I hoped the US/UK/EU wouldn't support never mind arm a genocide, especially given how anti occupation they had become but they have let Israel murder with impunity
Not going down a rabbit hole here. My initial post at this particular time was point scoring with the rocket attack at the hospital and people will feel foolish!
You've avoided my question, not surprising. So I'm done with chasing it
even your question is framed to absolve Israel... if Hamas hadn't resisted the occupation than 30k plus wouldnt be dead... that's what you asking me...its Hamas fault that Israel is committing a genocide!!!..
Well I've answered,
Israel and its enablers are responsible for the 30k plus murders, they are committing a genocide not Hamas, their occupation created the resistence, their ethic cleansing since the nakba has created the environment for the last 75 years.
Quote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:28:29 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:16:13 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:15:37 PMWho said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Israel did
did someone on the Board say it?
Indeed they did agree with the official release from Israel at the time. They continued to agree with it despite a host of investigations from neutral sources and they continued to agree with it despite Israel going on to level numerous other hospitals, shoot medics via sniper, level schools and UN shelters. The continue to agree even though the prevent aid aid getting into Gaza and having the place on the brink of famine. And when given the opportunity to even now say they got it wrong they haven't the moral courage to even do that. They instead call it point scoring. A man or woman of any substance would admit they got it wrong.
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2024, 12:57:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:28:29 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:16:13 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:15:37 PMWho said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Israel did
did someone on the Board say it?
Indeed they did agree with the official release from Israel at the time. They continued to agree with it despite a host of investigations from neutral sources and they continued to agree with it despite Israel going on to level numerous other hospitals, shoot medics via sniper, level schools and UN shelters. The continue to agree even though the prevent aid aid getting into Gaza and having the place on the brink of famine. And when given the opportunity to even now say they got it wrong they haven't the moral courage to even do that. They instead call it point scoring. A man or woman of any substance would admit they got it wrong.
You're embarrassing mate.. call it a day
Was a horrendous post.. probably been drinking.
There is big trouble brewing within Israel now as they want the ultra orthodox to do military service.
I'll admit ignorance on it, but see they're don't pay tax, get subsidises for studying Torah and are the ones setting harder line.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 02:35:26 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 31, 2024, 12:57:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:28:29 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:16:13 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:15:37 PMWho said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Israel did
did someone on the Board say it?
Indeed they did agree with the official release from Israel at the time. They continued to agree with it despite a host of investigations from neutral sources and they continued to agree with it despite Israel going on to level numerous other hospitals, shoot medics via sniper, level schools and UN shelters. The continue to agree even though the prevent aid aid getting into Gaza and having the place on the brink of famine. And when given the opportunity to even now say they got it wrong they haven't the moral courage to even do that. They instead call it point scoring. A man or woman of any substance would admit they got it wrong.
You're embarrassing mate.. call it a day
Was a horrendous post.. probably been drinking.
He's not wrong though.
Quote from: seafoid on March 31, 2024, 06:00:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 02:35:26 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 31, 2024, 12:57:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:28:29 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:16:13 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:15:37 PMWho said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Israel did
did someone on the Board say it?
Indeed they did agree with the official release from Israel at the time. They continued to agree with it despite a host of investigations from neutral sources and they continued to agree with it despite Israel going on to level numerous other hospitals, shoot medics via sniper, level schools and UN shelters. The continue to agree even though the prevent aid aid getting into Gaza and having the place on the brink of famine. And when given the opportunity to even now say they got it wrong they haven't the moral courage to even do that. They instead call it point scoring. A man or woman of any substance would admit they got it wrong.
You're embarrassing mate.. call it a day
Was a horrendous post.. probably been drinking.
He's not wrong though.
That'll bring some comfort to the 30 odd thousand dead since
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 06:16:42 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 31, 2024, 06:00:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 02:35:26 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 31, 2024, 12:57:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:28:29 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:16:13 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:15:37 PMWho said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Israel did
did someone on the Board say it?
Indeed they did agree with the official release from Israel at the time. They continued to agree with it despite a host of investigations from neutral sources and they continued to agree with it despite Israel going on to level numerous other hospitals, shoot medics via sniper, level schools and UN shelters. The continue to agree even though the prevent aid aid getting into Gaza and having the place on the brink of famine. And when given the opportunity to even now say they got it wrong they haven't the moral courage to even do that. They instead call it point scoring. A man or woman of any substance would admit they got it wrong.
You're embarrassing mate.. call it a day
Was a horrendous post.. probably been drinking.
He's not wrong though.
That'll bring some comfort to the 30 odd thousand dead since
It must be touchy
Quote from: seafoid on March 31, 2024, 06:21:30 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 06:16:42 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 31, 2024, 06:00:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 02:35:26 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 31, 2024, 12:57:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:28:29 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:16:13 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:15:37 PMWho said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Israel did
did someone on the Board say it?
Indeed they did agree with the official release from Israel at the time. They continued to agree with it despite a host of investigations from neutral sources and they continued to agree with it despite Israel going on to level numerous other hospitals, shoot medics via sniper, level schools and UN shelters. The continue to agree even though the prevent aid aid getting into Gaza and having the place on the brink of famine. And when given the opportunity to even now say they got it wrong they haven't the moral courage to even do that. They instead call it point scoring. A man or woman of any substance would admit they got it wrong.
You're embarrassing mate.. call it a day
Was a horrendous post.. probably been drinking.
He's not wrong though.
That'll bring some comfort to the 30 odd thousand dead since
It must be touchy
Again, for the stupid, I didn't say it was Hamas rocket.
I said it was a daft comment considering how many people have been murdered. Point scoring
Touchy, is 30,000 plus lives lost and counting, families displaced, again and again, not a nothing argument over who's feeling foolish!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 06:26:04 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 31, 2024, 06:21:30 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 06:16:42 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 31, 2024, 06:00:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 02:35:26 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 31, 2024, 12:57:48 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:28:29 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 30, 2024, 10:16:13 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 30, 2024, 10:15:37 PMWho said that the hospital was hit by a Palestinian missile?
Israel did
did someone on the Board say it?
Indeed they did agree with the official release from Israel at the time. They continued to agree with it despite a host of investigations from neutral sources and they continued to agree with it despite Israel going on to level numerous other hospitals, shoot medics via sniper, level schools and UN shelters. The continue to agree even though the prevent aid aid getting into Gaza and having the place on the brink of famine. And when given the opportunity to even now say they got it wrong they haven't the moral courage to even do that. They instead call it point scoring. A man or woman of any substance would admit they got it wrong.
You're embarrassing mate.. call it a day
Was a horrendous post.. probably been drinking.
He's not wrong though.
That'll bring some comfort to the 30 odd thousand dead since
It must be touchy
Again, for the stupid, I didn't say it was Hamas rocket.
I said it was a daft comment considering how many people have been murdered. Point scoring
Touchy, is 30,000 plus lives lost and counting, families displaced, again and again, not a nothing argument over who's feeling foolish!
It was actually an Islamic jihad rocket and strangely that group hasn't been mentioned since. I can only presume they blew themselves up. Beheaded babies, microwaved babies. Mass rapes. Hamas killed 1400 on Oct 7th. All the lies swallowed by the gullible. Is it not worth revisiting this to understand how lies and corrupt media and gullible people combine with the result of genocide live on your mobile phone?
None of your post of people looking foolish is relevant
The Israeli army and government have told lies for over 70 years, but Hamas did kill, and kidnapped people which has brought this latest murdering spree to where they have obliterated Gaza.
If this was the end game anyways then the events allowed Israel away with little or no pushback (until now) resulting in more families being literally torn apart
Hamas feel this is their only way of getting Israel to stop what they have been doing for so long.
Over 30,000 lost souls
Personally I'm against any conflict, not one murder is worth it
Once again blaming Hamas for 30k plus deaths... what brought the 30k plus deaths is Israelis genocide, which they choose to do themselves with the support of the west.
Hamas in keeping with International law are allow to resist their occupation by force. You have have heard of the great march a peasceful effort to bring change and the outcome...Any war crimes they (Hamas) committed they are responsible for but not for Israeli war crimes and the 30 plus they murdered, that is all on Israel and the west.
your efforts to blame the occupied and absolve the occupier are sickening to me...
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 08:07:23 PMOnce again blaming Hamas for 30k plus deaths... what brought the 30k plus deaths is Israelis genocide, which they choose to do themselves with the support of the west.
Hamas in keeping with International law are allow to resist their occupation by force. You have have heard of the great march a peasceful effort to bring change and the outcome...Any war crimes they (Hamas) committed they are responsible for but not for Israeli war crimes and the 30 plus they murdered, that is all on Israel and the west.
your efforts to blame the occupied and absolve the occupier are sickening to me...
I've highlighted every attack the Israeli army have committed for over 70 years
I've basically said the latest atrocities happened after the Hamas attack.
You are saying kidnapping is part of international law? Can you put a link up for that?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 08:18:00 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 08:07:23 PMOnce again blaming Hamas for 30k plus deaths... what brought the 30k plus deaths is Israelis genocide, which they choose to do themselves with the support of the west.
Hamas in keeping with International law are allow to resist their occupation by force. You have have heard of the great march a peasceful effort to bring change and the outcome...Any war crimes they (Hamas) committed they are responsible for but not for Israeli war crimes and the 30 plus they murdered, that is all on Israel and the west.
your efforts to blame the occupied and absolve the occupier are sickening to me...
I've highlighted every attack the Israeli army have committed for over 70 years
I've basically said the latest atrocities happened after the Hamas attack.
You are saying kidnapping is part of international law? Can you put a link up for that?
you have not highlighted every attack the Israeli army committed over 7O years. LIE
so Hamas is not the cause of the 30k plus murders? Israel supported by the west is the cause?
I did not say kidnapping is part of international law. I said resisting an occupation by force is. I went on to say that any war crimes Hamas committed they are responsible for.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 08:24:46 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 08:18:00 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 08:07:23 PMOnce again blaming Hamas for 30k plus deaths... what brought the 30k plus deaths is Israelis genocide, which they choose to do themselves with the support of the west.
Hamas in keeping with International law are allow to resist their occupation by force. You have have heard of the great march a peasceful effort to bring change and the outcome...Any war crimes they (Hamas) committed they are responsible for but not for Israeli war crimes and the 30 plus they murdered, that is all on Israel and the west.
your efforts to blame the occupied and absolve the occupier are sickening to me...
I've highlighted every attack the Israeli army have committed for over 70 years
I've basically said the latest atrocities happened after the Hamas attack.
You are saying kidnapping is part of international law? Can you put a link up for that?
you have not highlighted every attack the Israeli army committed over 7O years. LIE
so Hamas is not the cause of the 30k plus murders? Israel supported by the west is the cause?
I did not say kidnapping is part of international law. I said resisting an occupation by force is. I went on to say that any war crimes Hamas committed they are responsible for.
I have mentioned in my posts that for the last 70 plus years Isreal has murdered lied and displaced. You want me to find it?
Hamas have not killed over 30 thousand people, I'm not sure where in my posts I said that.
I did say after that attack, Israel have murdered over 30 thousand people, but that apparently means I said Hamas killed or are to blame.
Listen, if I wanted to say Hamas were guilty of that i would. If you want to twist my posts, jump in.
Hamas and other groups being stripped of their land have a right to resist.
you have not highlighted every attack, you made a general comment about israeli actions over 70 plus years.. but beginning to understand why when you say one thing you think you slhave say another...
your posts (prior to last one) do not say 'Israel have murdered over 30 thoudand people'
what you have said is
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive
It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas
but Hamas did kill, and kidnapped people which has brought this latest murdering spree.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 09:12:06 PMyou have not highlighted every attack, you made a general comment about israeli actions over 70 plus years.. but beginning to understand why when you say one thing you think you slhave say another...
your posts (prior to last one) do not say 'Israel have murdered over 30 thoudand people'
what you have said is
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive
It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas
but Hamas did kill, and kidnapped people which has brought this latest murdering spree.
All true, what Israel have done since the attacks is indefensible, what Israel have done in 70 years is indefensible.
I'm looking at the timeline, you are going off on some tangent
But of course getting away from the reason why I posted in the first place. Some mad point scoring by itchy
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 09:36:17 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 09:12:06 PMyou have not highlighted every attack, you made a general comment about israeli actions over 70 plus years.. but beginning to understand why when you say one thing you think you slhave say another...
your posts (prior to last one) do not say 'Israel have murdered over 30 thoudand people'
what you have said is
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive
It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas
but Hamas did kill, and kidnapped people which has brought this latest murdering spree.
All true, what Israel have done since the attacks is indefensible, what Israel have done in 70 years is indefensible.
I'm looking at the timeline, you are going off on some tangent
But of course getting away from the reason why I posted in the first place. Some mad point scoring by itchy
Your first statement has the causation of the deaths to be Hamas not Israel. Hamas are responsible for their actions and Israelis theirs.
the 2nd again, causation, it is not due to the initial Hamas attack, there is ever extending death toll happening, the cause of ever extending death toll is Israel.
the 3rd, causation, hamas brought this latest murdering spree... no they haven't Israel has, after 7th (aside from the deaths israel was responsible for), they decided on their actions, and they haven't had an issue killing 30 plus thousand palestines and some more Israeli hostages.
Jesus ! You are hard work.
There's nowhere that I've said Hamas killed 30 thousand, the timeline for these latest deaths happened after the Hamas attack.
I've not said they caused it. But you keep going ::)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 10:26:18 PMJesus ! You are hard work.
There's nowhere that I've said Hamas killed 30 thousand, the timeline for these latest deaths happened after the Hamas attack.
I've not said they caused it. But you keep going ::)
both of these statements by you, clearer state that Hamas caused it... even if it is now not what you meant.
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive
It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 10:38:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 10:26:18 PMJesus ! You are hard work.
There's nowhere that I've said Hamas killed 30 thousand, the timeline for these latest deaths happened after the Hamas attack.
I've not said they caused it. But you keep going ::)
both of these statements by you, clearer state that Hamas caused it... even if it is now not what you meant.
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive
It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas
That's correct, if hamas never carried out that attack, Gaza today would still be standing and over 30 thousand people would be alive, as Isreal wouldn't have had the backing initially in what they have done on the back of those attacks.
That's not taking away Hamas legitimacy in resisting Israel
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 10:38:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 10:26:18 PMJesus ! You are hard work.
There's nowhere that I've said Hamas killed 30 thousand, the timeline for these latest deaths happened after the Hamas attack.
I've not said they caused it. But you keep going ::)
both of these statements by you, clearer state that Hamas caused it... even if it is now not what you meant.
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive
It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas
Ok, I'll ask it differently
And answer the question by itself
Don't add in other stuff please
Do you think, had the attacks not taken place that we'd be in the current situation with the death toll as high and Gaza the way it is?
I'm not absolving Israel or blaming Hamas, the attacks happened, that's real, what Israel did/doing is real.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 10:59:39 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 10:38:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 10:26:18 PMJesus ! You are hard work.
There's nowhere that I've said Hamas killed 30 thousand, the timeline for these latest deaths happened after the Hamas attack.
I've not said they caused it. But you keep going ::)
both of these statements by you, clearer state that Hamas caused it... even if it is now not what you meant.
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive
It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas
That's correct, if hamas never carried out that attack, Gaza today would still be standing and over 30 thousand people would be alive, as Isreal wouldn't have had the backing initially in what they have done on the back of those attacks.
That's not taking away Hamas legitimacy in resisting Israel Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 10:38:48 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 10:26:18 PMJesus ! You are hard work.
There's nowhere that I've said Hamas killed 30 thousand, the timeline for these latest deaths happened after the Hamas attack.
I've not said they caused it. But you keep going ::)
both of these statements by you, clearer state that Hamas caused it... even if it is now not what you meant.
Remember if hamas never carried out that attack there would be a lot more people alive
It will be the ever extending death toll happening due to the initial attack by Hamas
Ok, I'll ask it differently
And answer the question by itself
Don't add in other stuff please
Do you think, had the attacks not taken place that we'd be in the current situation with the death toll as high and Gaza the way it is?
I'm not absolving Israel or blaming Hamas, the attacks happened, that's real, what Israel did/doing is real.
If Israel didnt occupy Palestine, there wouldn't be a Hamas and 30 thousand would be alive. But you choose to start causation on Oct 7th... that is absolving Israel and blaming Hamas.
Israel and the west are to blame for all their actions on and after Oct 7, not Hamas.
To answer your question, the resistance is a natural reaction to a brutal occupation, it was only a matter of time. Peaceful means had failed time and time again as the west and Israel cemented the status quo of 2.2m caged in Gaza and settler expansion and violence in the west bank. The lack of humanity from the west and israelis and the death toll as high as it is, is a direct result of that inhumanity.
So that's a no?
No point then in discussing it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2024, 11:28:16 PMSo that's a no?
No point then in discussing it
I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive
Quote from: JoG2 on April 01, 2024, 10:40:27 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive
Or back to WW2 and the Brits..
Quote from: JoG2 on April 01, 2024, 10:40:27 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive
Of course, it is part of an ongoing conflict and is not a simple matter.
However, Oct 7th made this an excessive response easier to organise as most of it was outright terrorism. I expect someone in Hamas expected things to turn out as they did, and believed that there was long term advantage in many deaths in Gaza.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
Nah, they still would have died only at a slower pace. Seems some think that people in Gaza should just accept their fate, die or leave but should not fight back and resist. Maybe us Irish should all have just died during the famine and let the Brits rule out country. God forbid any oppressed people should fight back.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 11:33:54 AMQuote from: JoG2 on April 01, 2024, 10:40:27 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive
Of course, it is part of an ongoing conflict and is not a simple matter.
However, Oct 7th made this an excessive response easier to organise as most of it was outright terrorism. I expect someone in Hamas expected things to turn out as they did, and believed that there was long term advantage in many deaths in Gaza.
Israel has never need an excuse to ethic cleanse or destroy and murder Palestinians, they do it on a daily basis and every now and again they 'mow the lawn' because they can, they have total control and responsibility for their actions.
To offer some sort of justification or that Hamas wanted Gaza to be destroyed is absolving Israel regardless of what you point you want to make. Again the Israeli response is 100% within their control infact the whole situation. as the occupier is their responsibility.
the scenes out of the al shifa hospital now, 6 months into a genocide shows how little Israel and the west care about needing an excuse... sickening.
Back to hospitals...
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1774811765152305351?t=aE3TOjilG_mnCOdpY_dgQg&s=19
Doctors disguise themselves as civilians when leaving the hospital because leaving in your scrubs puts a target on your back for snipers.
Some more from Al Shifa
https://twitter.com/HossamShabat/status/1774741588226273379?t=V7LSQpAMV17dqKpkI4yIFw&s=19
Where has Hound gone to?
Why do you have this need to tell some (random) people they were wrong?
It's very important how history views this imo. Forget random people on the internet. If Israel do this and build their holly homes etc then nothing happens at all the world is couped. Yes there is an increase in the voices against them but nothing that is making any difference or painting it in the light it needs to be painted.
Seems like the Israelis have just killed a number of international aid workers apparently including an Irish citizen.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on April 01, 2024, 11:18:57 PMSeems like the Israelis have just killed a number of international aid workers apparently including an Irish citizen.
I have seen British, Australian and Polish passports in twitter pictures but not an Irish Passport but widely reported there was an Irish person but might be due to cover of the UK of Britian and ireland passport.
Kick that odious bitch of an ambassador out now
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/israel-airstrike-on-gaza-kills-seven-working-for-celebrity-chefs-ngo-including-four-foreign-aid-workers/a663412795.html
Clearly targeted by the IDF for feeding people. Meanwhile CNN reports another 18bn of US arms being approved for Israel. Sick.
Those cnuts in Washington could stop the war criminal Israeli Government murder machine immediately by stopping the "aid".
Zomi & Chef Oli's last video shows them cooking meals for Gaza's hungry in @WCKitchen. Israel killed them
https://twitter.com/Afcq1954/status/1775028850633957760
Their car.
https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1775052658300076470
https://www.jns.org/biden-is-the-primary-obstacle-to-israeli-victory/
First, Israel cannot fight the war without U.S. resupply of the Israel Defense Forces. As a consequence, Israel is beholden to the administration's directives. And second, if Israel follows the Biden administration's directives, it will lose the war.His demand that Israel minimize Palestinian civilian casualties endangers IDF soldiers
Such a weak response internationally. They believe Israel is trying to not massacre people and they will have a good long look at themselves in the mirror!
I honestly don't know what Israel needs to do before they actually get some serious sanctions. It's so depressing. And I see now the aid food groups are stopping their operations temporarily so that's job done for Bibi and the lads - let them starve!
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on April 02, 2024, 01:52:25 PMSuch a weak response internationally. They believe Israel is trying to not massacre people and they will have a good long look at themselves in the mirror!
I honestly don't know what Israel needs to do before they actually get some serious sanctions. It's so depressing. And I see now the aid food groups are stopping their operations temporarily so that's job done for Bibi and the lads - let them starve!
True. A very sad state of affairs.
Sad indictment of the modern world.
Quote from: marty34 on April 02, 2024, 02:17:39 PMQuote from: Captain Scarlet on April 02, 2024, 01:52:25 PMSuch a weak response internationally. They believe Israel is trying to not massacre people and they will have a good long look at themselves in the mirror!
I honestly don't know what Israel needs to do before they actually get some serious sanctions. It's so depressing. And I see now the aid food groups are stopping their operations temporarily so that's job done for Bibi and the lads - let them starve!
True. A very sad state of affairs.
Sad indictment of the modern world.
I don't believe in God but I hope the heaven and hell thing is real as some of these bastards should burn for eternity. I add Michael Martin to that with more weasel words this morning. The man has no balls, a gutless fence-sitter.
What do you want him to do?
Invade Israel?
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2024, 04:56:46 PMWhat do you want him to do?
Invade Israel?
Martin? Expelling the ambassador would be good anyway
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2024, 04:56:46 PMWhat do you want him to do?
Invade Israel?
Is Netanyahu doing anything different to what Saddam was reported to have done?
Yet I hear no calls for anyone (namely the Americans and the Brits) to go into Israel and take out the psychopath.
Read between the lines AP
There's a reason why Israel's actions are treated differently by Western governments.
All western countries political parties and their mainstream media apparatus are now completely gamed.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2024, 04:56:46 PMWhat do you want him to do?
Invade Israel?
So you're saying there's no options open to him that fall somewhere in between doing f**k all and invading Israel?
Quote from: Snapchap on April 02, 2024, 07:17:47 PMQuote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2024, 04:56:46 PMWhat do you want him to do?
Invade Israel?
So you're saying there's no options open to him that fall somewhere in between doing f**k all and invading Israel?
Expelling the consulate would be a start!
There will be bigger stakes though once Syria land a few missile attacks in Israel after that attack.
Israel saying nowt but have been warned there will consequences
Nice tactic to get the US on board again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcU6008E-DU
Quote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 11:33:54 AMQuote from: JoG2 on April 01, 2024, 10:40:27 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive
Of course, it is part of an ongoing conflict and is not a simple matter.
However, Oct 7th made this an excessive response easier to organise as most of it was outright terrorism. I expect someone in Hamas expected things to turn out as they did, and believed that there was long term advantage in many deaths in Gaza.
Oct 7th was the fightback, there were plenty of Palestinians killed before that date;
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKOlHvgW4AALWYP?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 09:48:25 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 11:33:54 AMQuote from: JoG2 on April 01, 2024, 10:40:27 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive
Of course, it is part of an ongoing conflict and is not a simple matter.
However, Oct 7th made this an excessive response easier to organise as most of it was outright terrorism. I expect someone in Hamas expected things to turn out as they did, and believed that there was long term advantage in many deaths in Gaza.
Oct 7th was the fightback, there were plenty of Palestinians killed before that date;
The fightback is not in doubt, the manner of it can be criticised though, rock concerts are not legitimate targets.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 10:37:49 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 09:48:25 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 11:33:54 AMQuote from: JoG2 on April 01, 2024, 10:40:27 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive
Of course, it is part of an ongoing conflict and is not a simple matter.
However, Oct 7th made this an excessive response easier to organise as most of it was outright terrorism. I expect someone in Hamas expected things to turn out as they did, and believed that there was long term advantage in many deaths in Gaza.
Oct 7th was the fightback, there were plenty of Palestinians killed before that date;
The fightback is not in doubt, the manner of it can be criticised though, rock concerts are not legitimate targets.
Who has a rock concert outside a prison camp?
Also,
over 30% of those killed by Hamas that day were members of the IDF, how many Israelis killed by the IDF that very same day is still very much up for debate.
I'm not saying Hamas didn't kill civilians that day but we now know the raping and beheaded babies were all IDF lies and propaganda.
Hamas for some reason are being held to a much higher moral authority than the IDF who have killed civilians at will for years, yet nothing is done about it.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 11:21:41 AMWho has a rock concert outside a prison camp?
This type of justification is a bit like saying that it is ok to bomb a hospital because there are terrorists in the area.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 11:21:41 AMAlso,
over 30% of those killed by Hamas that day were members of the IDF, how many Israelis killed by the IDF that very same day is still very much up for debate.
I'm not saying Hamas didn't kill civilians that day but we now know the raping and beheaded babies were all IDF lies and propaganda.
The beheaded babies was propaganda, but I think it is difficult to claim that nobody was sexually assaulted.
QuoteHamas for some reason are being held to a much higher moral authority than the IDF who have killed civilians at will for years, yet nothing is done about it.
No, they are not. Hamas are evil, the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 11:53:38 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 11:21:41 AMWho has a rock concert outside a prison camp?
This type of justification is a bit like saying that it is ok to bomb a hospital because there are terrorists in the area.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 11:21:41 AMAlso,
over 30% of those killed by Hamas that day were members of the IDF, how many Israelis killed by the IDF that very same day is still very much up for debate.
I'm not saying Hamas didn't kill civilians that day but we now know the raping and beheaded babies were all IDF lies and propaganda.
The beheaded babies was propaganda, but I think it is difficult to claim that nobody was sexually assaulted.
QuoteHamas for some reason are being held to a much higher moral authority than the IDF who have killed civilians at will for years, yet nothing is done about it.
No, they are not. Hamas are evil, the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same.
Question?
How much proof do you need?
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 11:53:38 AMNo, they are not. Hamas are evil, the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same.
WTAF :(
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 12:02:36 PMQuote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 11:53:38 AMNo, they are not. Hamas are evil, the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same.
Question?
How much proof do you need?
Not much more at this stage.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 11:53:38 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 11:21:41 AMWho has a rock concert outside a prison camp?
This type of justification is a bit like saying that it is ok to bomb a hospital because there are terrorists in the area.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 11:21:41 AMAlso,
over 30% of those killed by Hamas that day were members of the IDF, how many Israelis killed by the IDF that very same day is still very much up for debate.
I'm not saying Hamas didn't kill civilians that day but we now know the raping and beheaded babies were all IDF lies and propaganda.
The beheaded babies was propaganda, but I think it is difficult to claim that nobody was sexually assaulted.
QuoteHamas for some reason are being held to a much higher moral authority than the IDF who have killed civilians at will for years, yet nothing is done about it.
No, they are not. Hamas are evil, the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same.
Denies Hamas being held to a higher moral standard than Israel.
Next sentence.... holds Hamas to higher moral standard than Israel.
Looper.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 12:36:02 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 12:02:36 PMQuote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 11:53:38 AMNo, they are not. Hamas are evil, the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same.
Question?
How much proof do you need?
Not much more at this stage.
for the time of year that's in it you'd be a doubting Thomas, although now a few Brit aid workers were blown to bits by the IDF in a well marked vehicle and also having clearance from the very same organisation to be on that road, but the IDF will trundle out a few lies and the Brits will look away...
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 10:37:49 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 09:48:25 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 11:33:54 AMQuote from: JoG2 on April 01, 2024, 10:40:27 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive
Of course, it is part of an ongoing conflict and is not a simple matter.
However, Oct 7th made this an excessive response easier to organise as most of it was outright terrorism. I expect someone in Hamas expected things to turn out as they did, and believed that there was long term advantage in many deaths in Gaza.
Oct 7th was the fightback, there were plenty of Palestinians killed before that date;
The fightback is not in doubt, the manner of it can be criticised though, rock concerts are not legitimate targets.
The concert was not a target.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 03, 2024, 01:40:03 PMQuote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 10:37:49 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2024, 09:48:25 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 11:33:54 AMQuote from: JoG2 on April 01, 2024, 10:40:27 AMQuote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2024, 10:28:55 AMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on March 31, 2024, 11:38:52 PMI'm not absolving Israel,I'm not absolving Israel,I'm not blaming Hamas,I'm not blaming Hamas but but but but it's Hamas fault, if Oct 7th didn't happen would 30 thousand plus people be still alive..
If Oct 7th didn't happen then almost all of those 30 thousand people would indeed still be alive.
You could go back to many many dates and many many incidents carried out by Israel and almost all of those 30 thousand people would still be alive
Of course, it is part of an ongoing conflict and is not a simple matter.
However, Oct 7th made this an excessive response easier to organise as most of it was outright terrorism. I expect someone in Hamas expected things to turn out as they did, and believed that there was long term advantage in many deaths in Gaza.
Oct 7th was the fightback, there were plenty of Palestinians killed before that date;
The fightback is not in doubt, the manner of it can be criticised though, rock concerts are not legitimate targets.
The concert was not a target.
Israel bombed people fleeing from the festival as well as the kibbutz
This video is really good . America doesn't a give flying f**k about Israeli cizizens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBumTNZvVvk
Quote from: Keyser soze on April 03, 2024, 12:44:49 PMQuote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 11:53:38 AM]No, they are not. Hamas are evil, the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same. [/b][/b]
Denies Hamas being held to a higher moral standard than Israel.
Next sentence.... holds Hamas to higher moral standard than Israel.
Looper.
From my perspective, I am holding them to the same standard and both fail. If you disagree, then you can point out where I am in error rather than calling me names.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 06:40:18 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on April 03, 2024, 12:44:49 PMQuote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2024, 11:53:38 AM]No, they are not. Hamas are evil, the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same. [/b][/b]
Denies Hamas being held to a higher moral standard than Israel.
Next sentence.... holds Hamas to higher moral standard than Israel.
Looper.
From my perspective, I am holding them to the same standard and both fail. If you disagree, then you can point out where I am in error rather than calling me names.
you posted this today
No, they are not. Hamas are evil, the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same
If Hamas had butchered tens of thousands of women and children on their way to defending GaZa then they are the ones who should be in front of the I.C.J. maybe if they had the capacity to do so they might but they haven't. Because Isreal couldn't even tell the truth about Oct 7th we don't know what they did. Is it even possible to separate Hamas from the republican movement here before the GFA. You back any animal ( including humans) into a corner they are going to bite you. There is one oppressor here and it isn't Hamas regardless of their disgraceful behaviour on the 7th.
This puts Hamas in context
https://twitter.com/Powerfulmindx/status/1772716640267805111
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68722308
Alan Duncan dropping a load of truth bombs on the Israeli lobbyists within the Tory party and they're all out going to cancel him;;
https://twitter.com/i/status/1775806395062837718 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1775806395062837718)
Quote from: johnnycool on April 04, 2024, 04:35:48 PMAlan Duncan dropping a load of truth bombs on the Israeli lobbyists within the Tory party and they're all out going to cancel him;;
https://twitter.com/i/status/1775806395062837718 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1775806395062837718)
Clearly a raging anti semite
Quote from: seafoid on April 03, 2024, 08:34:56 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68722308
Nothing will change. Genocide Joe is being widely reported as "having a call" with Netanyahu today. I expect he will tell him he is a very naughty boy and if he doesn't behave Old Joe will be very cross. Genocide Joe will still then sign off on 100bn dollars of arms because (and I laughed out loud when i heard this on the radio today) these arms are to be used in other areas, not Gaza. like selling Hitler gas and him saying he wasn't going to send it to Auschwitz.
Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2024, 04:59:32 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 03, 2024, 08:34:56 PMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68722308
Nothing will change. Genocide Joe is being widely reported as "having a call" with Netanyahu today. I expect he will tell him he is a very naughty boy and if he doesn't behave Old Joe will be very cross. Genocide Joe will still then sign off on 100bn dollars of arms because (and I laughed out loud when i heard this on the radio today) these arms are to be used in other areas, not Gaza. like selling Hitler gas and him saying he wasn't going to send it to Auschwitz.
Things are changing in the UK
James O'Brien https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyaE2tAKEsE
UK experts https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1775780812727660652
UK questions https://twitter.com/implausibleblog/status/1775572848876093650
Nick Ferrari was on ITV with Gyles Brandreth egging on Israel a few months ago
Nick Ferrari https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPfFmq5T0pg
The only ones that matter are the Yanks
Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2024, 05:59:31 PMThe only ones that matter are the Yanks
The EU trade deal is the most important economic link that Israel has. If the Brits are turning the Euros will later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9-5GJvzmgM
Norman Finkelstein...
STARVE OR LEAVE
Let's cut to the chase: of course Israel deliberately targeted the WCK relief convoy. Not only do all the material facts point to this conclusion. There also aren't any grounds to doubt it; the heavy burden of proof falls on Israel to demonstrate that it was not a premeditated strike. On October 8, 2023, Israel announced a total blockade of Gaza: no food, fuel, water, or electricity would be allowed in. The rationale behind this order was laid out by former Israeli National Security Council head Giora Eiland: "Israel should not allow any economic assistance. The people should be told that they have two choices: to stay and to starve, or to leave." For the next two weeks, Israel blocked the entry of any aid into Gaza. Flagrant mass murder not being a good look, President Biden counseled Prime Minister Netanyahu to lighten up a bit. Israel tweaked its murder plan so as to pass muster with its enablers in Washington. But it did not alter the essence of its game-plan. Human Rights Watch documented in December that Israel was "using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare." Normally reticent senior international and humanitarian officials have in recent weeks openly charged that "Starvation is used as a weapon of war. Israel is provoking famine." (Josop Borrell, EU foreign policy chief) If—as everyone seems to agree—Israel's declared objective is to starve Gaza's civilian population, then: HOW COULD IT NOT PLUG THE HOLES IN ITS MURDER PLAN BY TARGETING INTERNATIONAL RELIEF ORGANIZATIONS? And in fact it's mission accomplished: international aid operations in Gaza have largely ceased "as a result of recent attacks on humanitarian workers by the IDF." ("Letter to the White House and National Security Council," April 4, 2024) But it might be wondered: Wasn't it foolhardy for Israel to risk international opprobrium? Not at all. Israel has targeted by various metrics an historically unprecedented number of hospitals, medics, journalists, and aid workers; it has killed an unprecedented number of women and children. It is ever testing the limits of the permissible. So far, it's successfully crossed every downward threshold into barbarism with impunity. It's impossible to predict in advance which story will be picked up by the fickle international media and which story will just get passing notice. The latest atrocity could just as easily have been subsumed in a paragraph on the inside pages under the title "Aid workers killed in Gaza." The only error Israel might have—it's too soon to tell—committed was anticipating that it would get another free pass. Indeed, Israel's news bureau in the US, the New York Times, is already spinning the story to exonerate Israel: "botched operation ... mistakes and misjudgments ... accidental killing." ("Back-to-Back Israeli Strikes Show Tragic Gaps in Choosing Targets," April 4, 2024) It's also being said that it's not senior Israeli officials but on the contrary IDF field commanders and soldiers who are out of control, or that Israel's resort to AI is behind the hecatomb in Gaza. That's all bullshit. During its periodic "mowing-the-lawn" hi-tech murder sprees in Gaza (Operation Cast Lead, Operation Protective Edge), Israel has always used DISCRIMINATELY INDISCRIMINATE firepower to terrorize Gaza's civilian population into submission. The nub of the problem is neither disciplinary nor technical. It's Israel's murder plan: to make Gaza unlivable and to force its people to decide—starve or leave.
Theresa Villiers on TV arguing that Israel are doing their best. Quelle surprise.
The Israelis closed the borders . I read somewhere that there were 7000 trucks waiting on the Egypt side . Israel neutralised UNRWA, the organisation that distribute food, runs schools etc . Biden introduced WCK as a replacement and Israel hit their convoy surgically 3 times.Israel is the heart of darkness.
Quote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 09:58:03 AMThe Israelis closed the borders . I read somewhere that there were 7000 trucks waiting on the Egypt side . Israel neutralised UNRWA, the organisation that distribute food, runs schools etc . Biden introduced WCK as a replacement and Israel hit their convoy surgically 3 times.Israel is the heart of darkness.
IDF made a terrible mistake it seems.
That mistake was killing three Brits, a Yank and an Aussie.
30,000 Palestinian men, woman and children was OK though.
Western morals in a nutshell.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 05, 2024, 01:00:21 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 09:58:03 AMThe Israelis closed the borders . I read somewhere that there were 7000 trucks waiting on the Egypt side . Israel neutralised UNRWA, the organisation that distribute food, runs schools etc . Biden introduced WCK as a replacement and Israel hit their convoy surgically 3 times.Israel is the heart of darkness.
IDF made a terrible mistake it seems.
That mistake was killing three Brits, a Yank and an Aussie.
30,000 Palestinian men, woman and children was OK though.
Western morals in a nutshell.
Was thinking that this morning when I was listening to the news.
Some noise over the murder of these aid workers and rightly so, but the murder and genocide of the people in Palestine doesn't matter.
Yep, in a nutshell alright.
("Good God they're killing white people" "We can't be having that")
Quote from: johnnycool on April 05, 2024, 01:00:21 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 09:58:03 AMThe Israelis closed the borders . I read somewhere that there were 7000 trucks waiting on the Egypt side . Israel neutralised UNRWA, the organisation that distribute food, runs schools etc . Biden introduced WCK as a replacement and Israel hit their convoy surgically 3 times.Israel is the heart of darkness.
IDF made a terrible mistake it seems.
That mistake was killing three Brits, a Yank and an Aussie.
30,000 Palestinian men, woman and children was OK though.
Western morals in a nutshell.
What counts with Israel is the pattern, not the individual episode.
Israel has no respect for Palestinian life.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1776136521671672110
https://twitter.com/Thehopper7/status/1775879170477686800
https://rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22376164/
All of the hospitals have been destroyed
Germany didn't want to cut off trade links with Russia
Germany doesn't want to cut off links with Israel either
But they won't have a choice.
Israel cannot be fixed
Quote from: johnnycool on April 05, 2024, 01:00:21 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 09:58:03 AMThe Israelis closed the borders . I read somewhere that there were 7000 trucks waiting on the Egypt side . Israel neutralised UNRWA, the organisation that distribute food, runs schools etc . Biden introduced WCK as a replacement and Israel hit their convoy surgically 3 times.Israel is the heart of darkness.
IDF made a terrible mistake it seems.
That mistake was killing three Brits, a Yank and an Aussie.
30,000 Palestinian men, woman and children was OK though.
Western morals in a nutshell.
I understand that 169 aid workers have now been killed. It's a pity a journalist wouldn't ask them if these recent ones are the only tragic ones.
They've done this before, nothing will change.
So Israel made a mistake which resulted in a number of aid workers being killed.
I wonder how many other mistakes that they made which resulted in multiple deaths?
Will they be handing the "sacked officers" over to the Hague for a war crimes trial?
Good graphic posted on Slugger
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/WhatsApp-Image-2024-04-05-at-18.33.28_b3b4ea93.webp)
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 11:21:18 AMGood graphic posted on Slugger
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/WhatsApp-Image-2024-04-05-at-18.33.28_b3b4ea93.webp)
False equivalence if you ask me. The one on the left is accurate.
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2024, 12:38:55 PMFalse equivalence if you ask me. The one on the left is accurate.
Unfortunately, they are both accurate in general.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 11:21:18 AMGood graphic posted on Slugger
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/WhatsApp-Image-2024-04-05-at-18.33.28_b3b4ea93.webp)
only for the pig ignorant.
hardly surprising coming from a poster that recently said Hamas were evil but 'the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same'..
this despite to name a few, the nakba where 750k were mass displaced and dispossessed and thousands killed never to return as per their legal right of return. Operation cast lead, protective edge, the thousand murdered and maimed on the great march, the thousands of illegal settlements, murders, displacements in the West Bank, Israel also enable Hamas to rise to split the palestinans...
the graphic is a piece of garbage.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 12:46:29 PMQuote from: Itchy on April 06, 2024, 12:38:55 PMFalse equivalence if you ask me. The one on the left is accurate.
Unfortunately, they are both accurate in general.
Explain that with your reasoning , please.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 05, 2024, 01:00:21 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 09:58:03 AMThe Israelis closed the borders . I read somewhere that there were 7000 trucks waiting on the Egypt side . Israel neutralised UNRWA, the organisation that distribute food, runs schools etc . Biden introduced WCK as a replacement and Israel hit their convoy surgically 3 times.Israel is the heart of darkness.
IDF made a terrible mistake it seems.
That mistake was killing three Brits, a Yank and an Aussie.
30,000 Palestinian men, woman and children was OK though.
Western morals in a nutshell.
Western leaders have been out of touch with public opinion for several months.
Israel considers the Palestinians to be vermin . Western publics do not. Western leaders have been trying to talk sense to Israel. Israel killed the WCK workers because it doesn't care . Israel has been posting its atrocities on the internet.
The flour massacre
https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1763238960770195819
We are looking for babies but there is no babies left
https://t.co/fFGM2YEAfs
The Israelis used her as bait, they set them up
https://twitter.com/mockgoose/status/1760346054258463055
I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza
https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1760372482983567558
Bouncy castle other side of wall to prevent trucks of humanitarian aid from entering Gaza.
https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1761147220164845777
Israel is beyond salvation at this stage. It will have to be deradicalised.
Quote from: seafoid on April 06, 2024, 01:10:00 PMWestern leaders have been out of touch with public opinion for several months.
Western Leaders have been out of touch for several
years.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 12:46:29 PMQuote from: Itchy on April 06, 2024, 12:38:55 PMFalse equivalence if you ask me. The one on the left is accurate.
Unfortunately, they are both accurate in general.
Nope that's lazy pure shite. The old "they are as bad as each other" narrative which indirectly excuses Israels barbarity.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 06, 2024, 01:29:36 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 06, 2024, 01:10:00 PMWestern leaders have been out of touch with public opinion for several months.
Western Leaders have been out of touch for several years.
I see your years and I'll raise your decades.
Israel is pure evil. It has helped me to understand what Cromwell in Ireland must have been like.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 12:55:54 PMQuote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 11:21:18 AMGood graphic posted on Slugger
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/WhatsApp-Image-2024-04-05-at-18.33.28_b3b4ea93.webp)
only for the pig ignorant.
hardly surprising coming from a poster that recently said Hamas were evil but 'the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same'..
this despite to name a few, the nakba where 750k were mass displaced and dispossessed and thousands killed never to return as per their legal right of return. Operation cast lead, protective edge, the thousand murdered and maimed on the great march, the thousands of illegal settlements, murders, displacements in the West Bank, Israel also enable Hamas to rise to split the palestinans...
the graphic is a piece of garbage.
The graphic is from The Onion
Quote from: dec on April 06, 2024, 03:10:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 12:55:54 PMQuote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 11:21:18 AMGood graphic posted on Slugger
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/WhatsApp-Image-2024-04-05-at-18.33.28_b3b4ea93.webp)
only for the pig ignorant.
hardly surprising coming from a poster that recently said Hamas were evil but 'the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same'..
this despite to name a few, the nakba where 750k were mass displaced and dispossessed and thousands killed never to return as per their legal right of return. Operation cast lead, protective edge, the thousand murdered and maimed on the great march, the thousands of illegal settlements, murders, displacements in the West Bank, Israel also enable Hamas to rise to split the palestinans...
the graphic is a piece of garbage.
The graphic is from The Onion
the graphic is a piece of
garbage a joke!
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 12:55:54 PMonly for the pig ignorant.
hardly surprising coming from a poster that recently said Hamas were evil but 'the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same'..
this despite to name a few, the nakba where 750k were mass displaced and dispossessed and thousands killed never to return as per their legal right of return. Operation cast lead, protective edge, the thousand murdered and maimed on the great march, the thousands of illegal settlements, murders, displacements in the West Bank, Israel also enable Hamas to rise to split the palestinans...
the graphic is a piece of garbage.
The graphic above does not excuse the Israelis, so what you say above does not counter render it inappropriate.
There is no doubt that US arms has provided greater capability to the Israelis, hence the above.
Presumably, you believe that the right hand side does not apply to Palestinians, and you can show why it doesn't rather than just making comments about the poster.
you are one excusing Israel, the graphic has been shown to be a joke!
also my points are about your comment about weather the Israelis are the same, not the graphic.
the graphic says the palestinan but I just looked at a few pieces from Hamas who you consider evil, in their charter state the following points
[1] Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage
2. Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. It provides an umbrella for the followers of other creeds and religions who can practice their beliefs in security and safety.
3. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine.
4. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.
5. Hamas believes in, and adheres to, managing its Palestinian relations on the basis of pluralism, democracy, national partnership, acceptance of the other and the adoption of dialogue. The aim is to bolster the unity of ranks and joint action for the purpose of accomplishing national goals and fulfilling the aspirations of the Palestinian people.
In 2015 they offered a 15 year ceasefire... Fatah would have similar opinions but work closely with the Israelis which only cements the unjust status quo.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 03:46:29 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 12:55:54 PMonly for the pig ignorant.
hardly surprising coming from a poster that recently said Hamas were evil but 'the question has been whether the Israelis are much the same'..
this despite to name a few, the nakba where 750k were mass displaced and dispossessed and thousands killed never to return as per their legal right of return. Operation cast lead, protective edge, the thousand murdered and maimed on the great march, the thousands of illegal settlements, murders, displacements in the West Bank, Israel also enable Hamas to rise to split the palestinans...
the graphic is a piece of garbage.
The graphic above does not excuse the Israelis, so what you say above does not counter render it inappropriate.
There is no doubt that US arms has provided greater capability to the Israelis, hence the above.
Presumably, you believe that the right hand side does not apply to Palestinians, and you can show why it doesn't rather than just making comments about the poster.
I'd say less than 1% of Irish people share your beliefs and thoughts on the genocide of Palestine.. Wonder what shaped your views?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 04:12:46 PMyou are one excusing Israel, the graphic has been shown to be a joke!
also my points are about your comment about weather the Israelis are the same, not the graphic.
the graphic says the palestinan but I just looked at a few pieces from Hamas who you consider evil, in their charter state the following points
[1] Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage
2. Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. It provides an umbrella for the followers of other creeds and religions who can practice their beliefs in security and safety.
3. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine.
4. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.
5. Hamas believes in, and adheres to, managing its Palestinian relations on the basis of pluralism, democracy, national partnership, acceptance of the other and the adoption of dialogue. The aim is to bolster the unity of ranks and joint action for the purpose of accomplishing national goals and fulfilling the aspirations of the Palestinian people.
In 2015 they offered a 15 year ceasefire... Fatah would have similar opinions but work closely with the Israelis which only cements the unjust status quo.
That's a fair response, However, you have often pointed out that Israel say one thing and do another. Hamas says one thing, but their actions suggest otherwise. There are anti Netanyahu protests in Isreal at present, I suspect there never been possibility of an anti Hamas protest and since they took power there has been a notable lack of an election which might allow the population give a view on their performance. If they persecute Fatah voters in Gaza, one suspects that they might not be kind to Jewish people.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 05:41:33 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 04:12:46 PMyou are one excusing Israel, the graphic has been shown to be a joke!
also my points are about your comment about weather the Israelis are the same, not the graphic.
the graphic says the palestinan but I just looked at a few pieces from Hamas who you consider evil, in their charter state the following points
[1] Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage
2. Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. It provides an umbrella for the followers of other creeds and religions who can practice their beliefs in security and safety.
3. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine.
4. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.
5. Hamas believes in, and adheres to, managing its Palestinian relations on the basis of pluralism, democracy, national partnership, acceptance of the other and the adoption of dialogue. The aim is to bolster the unity of ranks and joint action for the purpose of accomplishing national goals and fulfilling the aspirations of the Palestinian people.
In 2015 they offered a 15 year ceasefire... Fatah would have similar opinions but work closely with the Israelis which only cements the unjust status quo.
That's a fair response, However, you have often pointed out that Israel say one thing and do another. Hamas says one thing, but their actions suggest otherwise. There are anti Netanyahu protests in Isreal at present, I suspect there never been possibility of an anti Hamas protest and since they took power there has been a notable lack of an election which might allow the population give a view on their performance. If they persecute Fatah voters in Gaza, one suspects that they might not be kind to Jewish people.
Hamas has allowed Fatah protest and rallies in Gaza so what you suspect is wrong.
There has also been a lack of elections in the west bank and the reason is not solely on Hamas or Fatah as Israel has also being an obstacle... Hamas won elections in 06 but only democracy that the US/Uk/Eu like gets recognoised, so they tried to get rid of them.
Yes, I doubt very much they like Israelis and especially zionists after 75 years of occupation but that does lead to the points outlined in the graphic.
There is only one side committing a genocide, occupying, expanding settlements, creating an apartheid system and its not the Palestinians.
regarding the anti Netanyahu protests, they are regularly broken up by the the police.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMHamas has allowed Fatah protest and rallies in Gaza so what you suspect is wrong.
Fair enough, some protest have taken place.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMYes, I doubt very much they like Israelis and especially zionists after 75 years of occupation but that does lead to the points outlined in the graphic.
Let's say that it is easier to go to a mosque in Israel than to a synagogue in Gaza.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMThere is only one side committing a genocide, occupying, expanding settlements, creating an apartheid system and its not the Palestinians.QuoteThis reflects capacity more than attitude.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 08:48:41 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMHamas has allowed Fatah protest and rallies in Gaza so what you suspect is wrong.
Fair enough, some protest have taken place.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMYes, I doubt very much they like Israelis and especially zionists after 75 years of occupation but that does lead to the points outlined in the graphic.
Let's say that it is easier to go to a mosque in Israel than to a synagogue in Gaza.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMThere is only one side committing a genocide, occupying, expanding settlements, creating an apartheid system and its not the Palestinians.QuoteThis reflects capacity more than attitude.
How many Jewish people live in Gaza? How many synagogues are there?
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 08:48:41 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMHamas has allowed Fatah protest and rallies in Gaza so what you suspect is wrong.
Fair enough, some protest have taken place.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMYes, I doubt very much they like Israelis and especially zionists after 75 years of occupation but that does lead to the points outlined in the graphic.
Let's say that it is easier to go to a mosque in Israel than to a synagogue in Gaza.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMThere is only one side committing a genocide, occupying, expanding settlements, creating an apartheid system and its not the Palestinians.
QuoteThis reflects capacity more than attitude.
it is not easier for a Palestinan in Gaza to go to a mosque in the west bank though.
I would also point out that jewish cemeteries remained in Gaza and were only destroyed by Israelis in the last 6 months. there are also Jewish people in other Arab countries. there are Christians in Gaza and before 6 months ago over half were already refugees too.
it reflects reality not fantasy and what ifs.. Palestinains are the occupied and Israelis the agressors and the occupier for 75 years.
Palestinians, while having in y opinion justification to want a state on pre or even post 47 borders, they have negotiated and accepted in line with International law the 67 borders, Israel has never accepted this.
Palestinians who can trace 9 generations of their families to Palestine cannot move freely but if you are Jewish from anywhere in the world you have more rights within Israel.
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 06, 2024, 09:07:55 PMQuote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2024, 08:48:41 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMHamas has allowed Fatah protest and rallies in Gaza so what you suspect is wrong.
Fair enough, some protest have taken place.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMYes, I doubt very much they like Israelis and especially zionists after 75 years of occupation but that does lead to the points outlined in the graphic.
Let's say that it is easier to go to a mosque in Israel than to a synagogue in Gaza.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 06, 2024, 06:15:49 PMThere is only one side committing a genocide, occupying, expanding settlements, creating an apartheid system and its not the Palestinians.QuoteThis reflects capacity more than attitude.
How many Jewish people live in Gaza? How many synagogues are there?
Israel moved every single settler out of Gaza in 2005.
There are no no universities in Gaza and there are no hospitals in Gaza either so synagogues are not really top of the priority list .
more reality
https://twitter.com/robdelaney/status/1776702659677835596?t=955tGZUWJID-afXeJd61fA&s=19
One feature of Zionism is gaslighting, ie lying
Here is Melanie Philips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2BzQrce0Mk
Here is David Mencer, Israeli govt spokesman
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1775240996458045671
https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0412/1443102-harris-spain-palestine/
Taoiseach Simon Harris has said that the point at which Ireland, Spain and other European countries can recognise Palestinian statehood is moving much closer.
It followed a bilateral meeting between Mr Harris and Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez.
Using the same twisted logic that Israel and its enablers have been using that Israel has a right to defend itself - by extension of that does Iran not have the same right?
It's mad, or when you think about it, it's not really, that Israel can attack Iran and then claim if Iran attacks Israel back, it'll be self-defence.
Seems Israel and the US want to get more countres involved in the situation in the Middle East.
Two evil governments.
War Criminal Israeli Government attacks Iranian Consulate murdering a number of officials
Then hoping Iran retaliates and hey presto the Israeli war criminals become the good guys in US circles again.
Whatever the background of how's this has come about, Iran and Israel have been 'at war' for many years, so this isn't the first incident between them, this could end in disaster for more that just the Middle East..
The US just want the smallest of opportunities to have a go at Iran, but Iran has multiple problems internally going on.
Expect a shit show soon if it does, it'll certainly put the cost of living crisis to the back pages
Israel attacked Iran to distract attention from Gaza. Netanyahu is insane.He should be taken out.
Israel is the only Western country where young people are more extremist than their parents.
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2024, 02:42:42 PMIsrael attacked Iran to distract attention from Gaza. Netanyahu is insane.He should be taken out.
Israel is the only Western country where young people are more extremist than their parents.
I get ya and this works as a distraction but this shadow war with Iran and Israel has been going on since the 50's..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 02:54:06 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 13, 2024, 02:42:42 PMIsrael attacked Iran to distract attention from Gaza. Netanyahu is insane.He should be taken out.
Israel is the only Western country where young people are more extremist than their parents.
I get ya and this works as a distraction but this shadow war with Iran and Israel has been going on since the 50's..
Has it? Israel and Iran were allies until 1979.
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2024, 05:05:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 02:54:06 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 13, 2024, 02:42:42 PMIsrael attacked Iran to distract attention from Gaza. Netanyahu is insane.He should be taken out.
Israel is the only Western country where young people are more extremist than their parents.
I get ya and this works as a distraction but this shadow war with Iran and Israel has been going on since the 50's..
Has it? Israel and Iran were allies until 1979.
My mistake I was thinking Iran was part of the The Arab-Israeli War of 1948, was Iraq!
Anyways they have been having a good go at each other for many decades
Th'oul Shah was a big ally of the US.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 05:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 13, 2024, 05:05:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 02:54:06 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 13, 2024, 02:42:42 PMIsrael attacked Iran to distract attention from Gaza. Netanyahu is insane.He should be taken out.
Israel is the only Western country where young people are more extremist than their parents.
I get ya and this works as a distraction but this shadow war with Iran and Israel has been going on since the 50's..
Has it? Israel and Iran were allies until 1979.
My mistake I was thinking Iran was part of the The Arab-Israeli War of 1948, was Iraq!
Anyways they have been having a good go at each other for many decades
Israel has invaded Lebanon 7 times. This stopped when Iran set up Hizbollah.
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2024, 08:21:28 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 05:27:50 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 13, 2024, 05:05:33 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 02:54:06 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 13, 2024, 02:42:42 PMIsrael attacked Iran to distract attention from Gaza. Netanyahu is insane.He should be taken out.
Israel is the only Western country where young people are more extremist than their parents.
I get ya and this works as a distraction but this shadow war with Iran and Israel has been going on since the 50's..
Has it? Israel and Iran were allies until 1979.
My mistake I was thinking Iran was part of the The Arab-Israeli War of 1948, was Iraq!
Anyways they have been having a good go at each other for many decades
Israel has invaded Lebanon 7 times. This stopped when Iran set up Hizbollah.
And that's great...
Think the safest place to live when it all kicks off is Iceland 🇮🇸
my twitter feed full of reports that 50/100 drones launched from Iran!!
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 13, 2024, 09:09:49 PMmy twitter feed full of reports that 50/100 drones launched from Iran!!
Inevitable...
Slow moving drones from far away
Seems symbolic
Allows Iran to show they are fighting back
Allows Israel plenty of time to shot them down
Lack of serious Israeli casualties means they probably won't escalate.
Quote from: dec on April 13, 2024, 11:48:07 PMSlow moving drones from far away
Seems symbolic
Allows Iran to show they are fighting back
Allows Israel plenty of time to shot them down
Lack of serious Israeli casualties means they probably won't escalate.
It's easy to work out for everyone, so how will that actually show to their own that they are fighting back?
Israel response will have quicker drones
Israel has said it will respond. So no de-escalation
Is this all a bit of a show? Iran fires some slow moving drones so they can proclaim they have struck back. The drones are easily shot down so Israel can proclaim military superiority. Seems a bit scripted or at least I hope it is as this could get very nasty indeed
Any chance Russia/ America get seriously involved?
Israel need put in their box big time but Jesus it would be ugly
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 11:57:45 PMQuote from: dec on April 13, 2024, 11:48:07 PMSlow moving drones from far away
Seems symbolic
Allows Iran to show they are fighting back
Allows Israel plenty of time to shot them down
Lack of serious Israeli casualties means they probably won't escalate.
It's easy to work out for everyone, so how will that actually show to their own that they are fighting back?
Israel response will have quicker drones
Israel has to be neutralised.Warmongers have to be stopped.Netanyahu is a fascist.
Quote from: seafoid on April 14, 2024, 04:51:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 11:57:45 PMQuote from: dec on April 13, 2024, 11:48:07 PMSlow moving drones from far away
Seems symbolic
Allows Iran to show they are fighting back
Allows Israel plenty of time to shot them down
Lack of serious Israeli casualties means they probably won't escalate.
It's easy to work out for everyone, so how will that actually show to their own that they are fighting back?
Israel response will have quicker drones
Israel has to be neutralised.Warmongers have to be stopped.Netanyahu is a fascist.
I'd start with the US as head of the warmongers followed by Russia
Isreal is chicken feed
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2024, 05:02:52 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 14, 2024, 04:51:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 11:57:45 PMQuote from: dec on April 13, 2024, 11:48:07 PMSlow moving drones from far away
Seems symbolic
Allows Iran to show they are fighting back
Allows Israel plenty of time to shot them down
Lack of serious Israeli casualties means they probably won't escalate.
It's easy to work out for everyone, so how will that actually show to their own that they are fighting back?
Israel response will have quicker drones
Israel has to be neutralised.Warmongers have to be stopped.Netanyahu is a fascist.
I'd start with the US as head of the warmongers followed by Russia
Isreal is chicken feed
How many people has each country killed since October ?
Quote from: seafoid on April 14, 2024, 06:17:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2024, 05:02:52 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 14, 2024, 04:51:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 11:57:45 PMQuote from: dec on April 13, 2024, 11:48:07 PMSlow moving drones from far away
Seems symbolic
Allows Iran to show they are fighting back
Allows Israel plenty of time to shot them down
Lack of serious Israeli casualties means they probably won't escalate.
It's easy to work out for everyone, so how will that actually show to their own that they are fighting back?
Israel response will have quicker drones
Israel has to be neutralised.Warmongers have to be stopped.Netanyahu is a fascist.
I'd start with the US as head of the warmongers followed by Russia
Isreal is chicken feed
How many people has each country killed since October ?
The US or Russia?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2024, 06:23:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 14, 2024, 06:17:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2024, 05:02:52 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 14, 2024, 04:51:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 11:57:45 PMQuote from: dec on April 13, 2024, 11:48:07 PMSlow moving drones from far away
Seems symbolic
Allows Iran to show they are fighting back
Allows Israel plenty of time to shot them down
Lack of serious Israeli casualties means they probably won't escalate.
It's easy to work out for everyone, so how will that actually show to their own that they are fighting back?
Israel response will have quicker drones
Israel has to be neutralised.Warmongers have to be stopped.Netanyahu is a fascist.
I'd start with the US as head of the warmongers followed by Russia
Isreal is chicken feed
How many people has each country killed since October ?
The US or Russia?
The 3 of them.
Quote from: seafoid on April 14, 2024, 07:05:42 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2024, 06:23:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 14, 2024, 06:17:19 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2024, 05:02:52 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 14, 2024, 04:51:54 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2024, 11:57:45 PMQuote from: dec on April 13, 2024, 11:48:07 PMSlow moving drones from far away
Seems symbolic
Allows Iran to show they are fighting back
Allows Israel plenty of time to shot them down
Lack of serious Israeli casualties means they probably won't escalate.
It's easy to work out for everyone, so how will that actually show to their own that they are fighting back?
Israel response will have quicker drones
Israel has to be neutralised.Warmongers have to be stopped.Netanyahu is a fascist.
I'd start with the US as head of the warmongers followed by Russia
Isreal is chicken feed
How many people has each country killed since October ?
The US or Russia?
The 3 of them.
The US can say they haven't killed anyone, but their proxy in Israel has killed thousands of civilians with US weapons, money and unwavering support.
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poorEven Ozzy Osbourne knew this 50 years ago.
Not often that I agree with this poster
https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1781701696525054124
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2024, 10:04:27 PMNot often that I agree with this poster
https://twitter.com/KilclooneyJohn/status/1781701696525054124
In fairness to John Taylor, he has been consistent in his support for Palestine.
Starting to see some stronger language from Micheal Martin now. Its a shame it took all those deaths before Irish mainstream politicians stood up and were counted. Maybe the justified abuse he got about his trip to Israel had an effect on him, who knows...
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/micheal-martin-says-israel-tried-to-undermine-unrwa-as-independent-report-finds-country-provided-no-evidence-of-hamas-links/a1681110605.html
Also now clear (if anyone was stupid enough to believe Israel in the 1st place) that the UNRWA/Hamas link was a total lie and the resulting actions from some western countries have resulted in speeding up the threat of famine. Shame on those countries.
Wife was talking to some nut job Christian that used to live near us in our last home.
Anyways she got talking about being a aid worker going to Israel to 'help' the Jewish community come to terms with the attacks in Israel.
She went on to say because she's been there (I ask where, but wife didn't ask) its lies being told by the media about what's happening in Gaza.. And blah blah blah, i sent my wife some links and said if you bump into her again show here this!
People like this have the same mindset that the holocaust didn't happen
The thing is that there will be propaganda and lies as per any war but let's say that even (let's be very conservative) say 20% of what Israel are alleged to be up to is as heinous as they say then they're barbaric.
There are lies in war but I very much doubt one side is 100% lying and the other 0%. How people convince themselves of this I do not understand. It's basically just picking a side and backing up everything they do regardless.
Looks like the first amendment in the US isn't all that once you start challenging the Zionist Genocide.
Problem is they're arresting white, middle class kids so this might have a kick yet!
If ever a country was in the thrall of the Zionists, it's the US politicians, bought and paid for by AIPAC.
Would never happen here would it with people like this in charge of the social media rules?
https://theheadlinehive.com/jeremy-godfrey-wikipedia/ (https://theheadlinehive.com/jeremy-godfrey-wikipedia/)
Every western country has been captured/is in the process of being captured by them
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/gaa-accused-of-censorship-over-palestine-support-DNYXBKPYZFDCXEPSFRFP34X3XE/
Versus
https://ulster.gaa.ie/2022/05/ulster-gaa-seeks-volunteers-to-assist-at-ukraine-refugee-centres/
Bernie Sanders has a pretty strongly worded video against Israel there which is great to see. Also he's a jew which is helpful here. (It shouldn't need to be but the misuse of the anti-semitism card means it is)
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 23, 2024, 12:29:03 PMThe thing is that there will be propaganda and lies as per any war but let's say that even (let's be very conservative) say 20% of what Israel are alleged to be up to is as heinous as they say then they're barbaric.
There are lies in war but I very much doubt one side is 100% lying and the other 0%. How people convince themselves of this I do not understand. It's basically just picking a side and backing up everything they do regardless.
3 mass graves found near shifa.
I hope Israeli is pilloried at Eurovision.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 26, 2024, 03:21:52 PMBernie Sanders has a pretty strongly worded video against Israel there which is great to see. Also he's a jew which is helpful here. (It shouldn't need to be but the misuse of the anti-semitism card means it is)
To say the Israelis play the anti-semitism card all to often is an understatement.
American government want the IDF to investigate the mass graves discovered rather than have an independent investigation. We're seeing in real time the mask slipping on western governments.... not that anyone shod be surprised when you think about recent decades
https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1783567059390988450?t=MefcLXpJ9brdIHBlcSTEwQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1783567059390988450?t=MefcLXpJ9brdIHBlcSTEwQ&s=19)
Germans true to form anyway. They love genocide.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 04:46:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 01:24:13 PMGermans true to form anyway. They love genocide.
Mad post
It does seen Germany so keen to make amends for Holocaust they'll do anything not to offend Israel including accept any form of genocide by the Zionists.
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 27, 2024, 04:49:29 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 04:46:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 01:24:13 PMGermans true to form anyway. They love genocide.
Mad post
It does seen Germany so keen to make amends for Holocaust they'll do anything not to offend Israel including accept any form of genocide by the Zionists.
Saying that the Germans love genocide is bollox
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:01:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 27, 2024, 04:49:29 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 04:46:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 01:24:13 PMGermans true to form anyway. They love genocide.
Mad post
It does seen Germany so keen to make amends for Holocaust they'll do anything not to offend Israel including accept any form of genocide by the Zionists.
Saying that the Germans love genocide is bollox
why?
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 05:10:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:01:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 27, 2024, 04:49:29 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 04:46:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 01:24:13 PMGermans true to form anyway. They love genocide.
Mad post
It does seen Germany so keen to make amends for Holocaust they'll do anything not to offend Israel including accept any form of genocide by the Zionists.
Saying that the Germans love genocide is bollox
why?
Wise up, all Germans love genocide? What age are you ffs
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:11:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 05:10:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:01:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 27, 2024, 04:49:29 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 04:46:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 01:24:13 PMGermans true to form anyway. They love genocide.
Mad post
It does seen Germany so keen to make amends for Holocaust they'll do anything not to offend Israel including accept any form of genocide by the Zionists.
Saying that the Germans love genocide is bollox
why?
Wise up, all Germans love genocide? What age are you ffs
Where did I say 'all germans', Namibia, Holocaust, Gaza... some form.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 05:12:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:11:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 05:10:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:01:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 27, 2024, 04:49:29 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 04:46:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 01:24:13 PMGermans true to form anyway. They love genocide.
Mad post
It does seen Germany so keen to make amends for Holocaust they'll do anything not to offend Israel including accept any form of genocide by the Zionists.
Saying that the Germans love genocide is bollox
why?
Wise up, all Germans love genocide? What age are you ffs
Where did I say 'all germans', Namibia, Holocaust, Gaza... some form.
You said Germans, true to form they love genocide.
Now which Germans are you talking about? Be specific
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:27:43 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 05:12:08 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:11:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 05:10:14 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:01:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 27, 2024, 04:49:29 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 04:46:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 01:24:13 PMGermans true to form anyway. They love genocide.
Mad post
It does seen Germany so keen to make amends for Holocaust they'll do anything not to offend Israel including accept any form of genocide by the Zionists.
Saying that the Germans love genocide is bollox
why?
Wise up, all Germans love genocide? What age are you ffs
Where did I say 'all germans', Namibia, Holocaust, Gaza... some form.
You said Germans, true to form they love genocide.
Now which Germans are you talking about? Be specific
you expect me to have a list of names or what.. why do you never pull be up when I say the US/uk/EU are supporting a genocide and ask for me to be specific!!
this isn't your first time jumping in to defend the genocide loving germans...
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:01:38 PMQuote from: Truthsayer on April 27, 2024, 04:49:29 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 04:46:05 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 01:24:13 PMGermans true to form anyway. They love genocide.
Mad post
It does seen Germany so keen to make amends for Holocaust they'll do anything not to offend Israel including accept any form of genocide by the Zionists.
Saying that the Germans love genocide is bollox
I didn't say 'Germans love genocide' I'm saying is shameful their government support Israel and seems to be entwined with guilt around the holocaust... they are in effect supporting genocide as are US, UK...
You're nuts lad, you may start stop using German goods now.
I'll ask a question, you answer, very simple. You said the Germans, which ones ffs? All? Some?
Do your head a favour and stay off the internet
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:39:11 PMYou're nuts lad, you may start stop using German goods now.
I'll ask a question, you answer, very simple. You said the Germans, which ones ffs? All? Some?
Do your head a favour and stay off the internet
The germans who support the Palestinians.. who the f**k do you think I am talking about... you thick ignorant f**king idiot... its easy to throw out insults..
who the f**k do you think I am talking about!! how f**king stupid are you...
the Germans that support sending weapons to Israel, the ones who were nazis, the ones who where part of the decision to not support the taking of an Icj case, the ones who suppress marches for Palestinians, the ones who stopped a surgeon from Gaza entering Germany, the ones who stopped the Palestine Congress meeting two weeks ago, the ones who refuses other languages including Irish being spoken at protests in support of Palestine, the nazi EU leader, the germans who are silent when all that takes place... those f**king germans.
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 05:47:15 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:39:11 PMYou're nuts lad, you may start stop using German goods now.
I'll ask a question, you answer, very simple. You said the Germans, which ones ffs? All? Some?
Do your head a favour and stay off the internet
The germans who support the Palestinians.. who the f**k do you think I am talking about... you thick ignorant f**king idiot... its easy to throw out insults..
who the f**k do you think I am talking about!! how f**king stupid are you...
the Germans that support sending weapons to Israel, the ones who were nazis, the ones who where part of the decision to not support the taking of an Icj case, the ones who suppress marches for Palestinians, the ones who stopped a surgeon from Gaza entering Germany, the ones who stopped the Palestine Congress meeting two weeks ago, the ones who refuses other languages including Irish being spoken at protests in support of Palestine, the nazi EU leader, the germans who are silent when all that takes place... those f**king germans.
Lovely insults
Like I said, give your head a rest.
The world has supported them, even the country you live in.
Said plenty times there's plenty wars going on.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:51:48 PMQuote from: PadraicHenryPearse on April 27, 2024, 05:47:15 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 05:39:11 PMYou're nuts lad, you may start stop using German goods now.
I'll ask a question, you answer, very simple. You said the Germans, which ones ffs? All? Some?
Do your head a favour and stay off the internet
The germans who support the Palestinians.. who the f**k do you think I am talking about... you thick ignorant f**king idiot... its easy to throw out insults..
who the f**k do you think I am talking about!! how f**king stupid are you...
the Germans that support sending weapons to Israel, the ones who were nazis, the ones who where part of the decision to not support the taking of an Icj case, the ones who suppress marches for Palestinians, the ones who stopped a surgeon from Gaza entering Germany, the ones who stopped the Palestine Congress meeting two weeks ago, the ones who refuses other languages including Irish being spoken at protests in support of Palestine, the nazi EU leader, the germans who are silent when all that takes place... those f**king germans.
Lovely insults
Like I said, give your head a rest.
The world has supported them, even the country you live in.
Said plenty times there's plenty wars going on.
wise up, what age are you ffs and your nuts lads... just responding to your efforts...
I dont see palestinan protests stopped in Ireland, or us sending weapons, or joining the Israeli side in the icj... I dont remember the Irish carrying out a genocide of Africans or 6m Jews...
whataboutery, other wars...
I said your post was mad.. it was, saying Germans love a genocide !
Then you lost the run of yourself with insults
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 06:01:57 PMI said your post was mad.. it was, saying Germans love a genocide !
Then you lost the run of yourself with insults
they carried out a genocide In Nambia, the Holocaust and now support a genocide in Gaza... the germans love a genocide is unfortunately accurate...
you called me nuts, ask me my age !! both insults and I responded in kind.
you are still at it, with condensending posts telling me I lost the run of myself and take myself of the net..
what's mad is the germans after 2 genocides in 125 years are supporting a third.. that's mad
So when someone says your nuts snd what age are you responding with
you thick ignorant f**king idiot.
how f**king stupid are you
You getting carried away on a anonymous forum
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2024, 06:13:27 PMSo when someone says your nuts snd what age are you responding with
you thick ignorant f**king idiot.
how f**king stupid are you
You getting carried away on a anonymous forum
exactly, those and the condensending nature of your posts, my patience for you and your idiotic opinions wore out so thought i throw out a few insults too.
Postwar Germany has been run for peace but supports Israel because of recent history.