What can the GAA do to resurrect an interest in Intercounty Football?
Cheerleaders.
Try not to fix one provincial final on its own one weekend then 3 provincial finals and a rake of qualifiers the next.
Or they could just ban hurling.
Get doom and gloom merchants and so called pundits off TV and away from any national media analysis.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 20, 2018, 07:47:01 PM
What can the GAA do to resurrect an interest in Intercounty Football?
Abolish throwball.
Split Dublin in 4.
Make Leinster Championship home and away except for the Final.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 20, 2018, 08:09:39 PM
Get doom and gloom merchants and so called pundits off TV and away from any national media analysis.
In other words, award the broadcasting rights to anyone but RTE.
You haven't said what the problem is.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 20, 2018, 08:17:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 20, 2018, 08:09:39 PM
Get doom and gloom merchants and so called pundits off TV and away from any national media analysis.
In other words, award the broadcasting rights to anyone but RTE.
More than that as those phonies would still be on print media and they have enough foolish followers to lap up whatever they write.
An open draw.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 20, 2018, 08:18:05 PM
You haven't said what the problem is.
The sport is rubbish to watch now.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 20, 2018, 08:18:05 PM
You haven't said what the problem is.
In the 90s cavan were one of the best supported counties in Ireland despite being starved of success for 20 years. We are now back in div1 yet couldn't even muster 1000 supporters on donegal. I'm not sure why but people ain't Interested.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 20, 2018, 08:09:39 PM
Get doom and gloom merchants and so called pundits off TV and away from any national media analysis.
That would be a start
Collect Tally, poacher, Gallagher and all others who coach not to lose....
And export them to rockall
I'd say interest in the games has never been as high as we will see come super 8s in the next few weeks - will be non stop high quality games with big crowds and massive media coverage
Won't be a word about interest then I'd say.
Champions league style 8 groups of 4, sorry New York you're out!! and stop Dessie Dolan from analysing along with Tommy Carr!!
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 20, 2018, 09:23:41 PM
I'd say interest in the games has never been as high as we will see come super 8s in the next few weeks - will be non stop high quality games with big crowds and massive media coverage
Won't be a word about interest then I'd say.
True. The evidence shows us that there has never been more of an interest in intercounty football. There has however been a decline in interest in the provincial championships. A quick look at last years attendances shows this.
Quarter final double header 1- 82,000 sell out.
Quarter final double header 2- 65,746
Semi Final- Dublin v Tyrone-82,000 sell out
Semi Final-Mayo v Kerry-66,195
Replay-53,032
I remember going to the Mayo v Kerry Semi final in 96 and they didn't even manage to get 30,000 through the gates.
Divide the dubs into 6.
All kickouts must cross the 45 yard line.
After every 5 handpasses the ball must be kicked.
Take the dubs out of croker.
Up and coming referres should be umpires instead of referees bringing lads that cant see their toes.
Referees living in dublin shouldn't be allowed referee dub games.
bring in the sin bin.
make games 13 a side
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 20, 2018, 09:23:41 PM
I'd say interest in the games has never been as high as we will see come super 8s in the next few weeks - will be non stop high quality games with big crowds and massive media coverage
Won't be a word about interest then I'd say.
Yes, just like Tyrone were going to teach us all a lesson in how to tame Dublin last summer! The media hyped ye up to the nth! They had to look to somebody that might derail Dublin, sell tickets, sell bets, sell papers and sell advertising. The Mayo and Kerry hype was all used up at that stage!
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 20, 2018, 07:47:01 PM
What can the GAA do to resurrect an interest in Intercounty Football?
Get Fermanagh to the Ulster final every now and again.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 20, 2018, 08:07:22 PM
Cheerleaders.
I assume this is said tongue in cheek, but they really do need to look at turning it into a day out. The band and kids playing is a load of shite, and spare me the sanctimony of 'think of the children...'
Look elsewhere for ht entertainments - something ppl will actually enjoy, kicking competitions, that sort of stuff
Quote from: Jinxy on June 20, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 20, 2018, 08:18:05 PM
You haven't said what the problem is.
The sport is rubbish to watch now.
Still a lot better than it's number 1 competitor here, soccer.
World Cup has been largely mindnumbingly boring. Bar Spain-Portugal, which was great and Mexico upsetting the Germans, which was interesting.
Yesterday was typical. Three 1-0 wins for the favourites. ~Yawn inducing
On a personal level I haven't attended an inter-county game for 5/6 years. I cannot see myself attending one in the near future. That's from a person who used to go to most games. There is no point in posting the reasons here as it's been done to death.
For whats it's worth the Champions League type format has to be considered. It needs a shake up. Hurling is getting all the plaudits at the moment and rightly so.
Quote from: Targetman on June 20, 2018, 09:28:44 PM
Champions league style 8 groups of 4, sorry New York you're out!! and stop Dessie Dolan from analysing along with Tommy Carr!!
Sure the Champions league group stages are a complete load of shite, nobody other than supporters of the teams involved watches them and the teams qualifying are a foregone conclusion.
The rest of it makes sense though.
Maybe the Super 8s will inject a bit of life into the championship, but if the actual entertainment value doesn't improve, the novelty will wear off pretty quickly.
I still watch the football because I'm conditioned to watch the football, however, lately I've found myself wishing there was hurling on instead.
Quote from: mup on June 21, 2018, 09:30:55 AM
On a personal level I haven't attended an inter-county game for 5/6 years. I cannot see myself attending one in the near future. That's from a person who used to go to most games. There is no point in posting the reasons here as it's been done to death.
For whats it's worth the Champions League type format has to be considered. It needs a shake up. Hurling is getting all the plaudits at the moment and rightly so.
Hurling is getting plaudits for the group format because the Munster hurling teams are well matched, hence the draws in games with 40 scores. You really couldn't be sure who would win many of these games until the final whistle.
Indeed.
Meanwhile most people could predict which 3 would qualify in Leinster. All that was at issue was which 2 would make the Final.
Somebody asked what are the problems in football. ...
Awful endless slow sideways handpassing and defensive borefests
Same team winning everything
No new teams breaking through
About 20 of the 29 Provincial games are one sided
Leinster and Munster SFCs basically pointless and meaningless
About 15 or 16 of the Qualifiers games something similar.
Quote from: mup on June 21, 2018, 09:30:55 AM
For whats it's worth the Champions League type format has to be considered. It needs a shake up. Hurling is getting all the plaudits at the moment and rightly so.
The champions league style format in football would be the opposite to what is happening in hurling at the moment.
Hurling is entertaining AND competitive. Imagine in there was a 32 team champions league in hurling? The majority of games would be absolute drubbings and no body would suggest it. The case is football would be less extreme but still very extreme. A complete turn off to the audience.
We have to remember that in the early stages most games are not televised. Therefore the audience is the partisan attendees and those who find some partisan local radio station covering the game. They want their team to win and to have a chance of winning. It would also help if they have a prospect of going deep onto the competition and not be fodder for some annihilation down the line when they meet the big boys.
Late on the games are all televised and the total audience is vastly bigger than the fans attending in the stadium or indeed the overall viewership from the 2 competing counties. For that audience to be sustained and broadcasters to remain interested the game needs to be entertaining.
On this basis its not just format changes that need to looked at but rule changes in the game itself.
We can look at players, broadcasters, pundits, referees, officials and no doubt there are issues there to be addressed but I think the main issues negatively impacting our game today originate with coaches and those who appoint them. I love gaelic football and spend a huge amount of time following it, now and for the foreseeable time purely as a spectator. I fully appreciate that there a lots of people investing their time in the game freely (and some not so freely) so the reaction to what I am saying is probably obvious (i.e. why dont I do something to change it?) but my genuine concern is that down the line we end up with a game that is not that enjoyable to watch, not that enjoyable to play and then County X can win all they like but nobody will care. At some stage you will have to relook at the direction of travel and hopefully before we have gone to much further.
The Super 8s generate a minimum of 15 games. There could be a couple of dead rubbers or hammerings in that but by and large they will generate big attendances and viewership and someone will have a plan for spending the consequent revenues. My argument is that is not a successful model if at the same time young fellas in every county with no chance of making their county panel drift out of the game in bigger numbers so that clubs do not become viable and club football standards drop further away from inter-county elites or that county level footballers in counties that just arent going to make the Super8s or are never going to be more than cannon fodder also give up on the game or county representation. These might be unintended consequences of current competition formats and game rules but as (at least potential) consequences they are so obvious and so serious that we need to look at them now.
From what I can see the primary motivation in the game is fear. Fear of losing the ball, fear of conceding scores, fear of losing the match, fear of taking a hammering, fear of not appealing a decision because everyone else is doing that, fear of not paying a manager because we would be only ones not doing it, fear of not winter training because everyone else will be sneakily doing it, fear of taking a risk and showing some skill because the manager wants regimented soldiers
Its a long way from freedom, enjoyment, skill and dare I say entertainment.
We keep going the way we are we will have a game that appeals to the few and not the many.
Run the AI series once every four years like the WC. Just league all other years.
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 20, 2018, 09:23:41 PM
I'd say interest in the games has never been as high as we will see come super 8s in the next few weeks - will be non stop high quality games with big crowds and massive media coverage
Won't be a word about interest then I'd say.
Super 8 games will be packed no matter the teams or the football they play. Going to big games is more of an experience now, like festivals and concerts. It's the thing to be going to, and to be seen going to.
A few big games in August always disguises the fact that the c'ship up until then is a pile of piss.
Quote from: Under Lights on June 21, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Run the AI series once every four years like the WC. Just league all other years.
Agree with this. Club football the future, many of the natural imbalances co football has are balanced out
Quote from: haranguerer on June 21, 2018, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on June 21, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Run the AI series once every four years like the WC. Just league all other years.
Agree with this. Club football the future, many of the natural imbalances co football has are balanced out
What about the counties where a club wins 5 or 6 or more championships in a row? Did that destroy club football for a while in those counties ?
Quote from: Hound on June 21, 2018, 12:45:54 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 21, 2018, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on June 21, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Run the AI series once every four years like the WC. Just league all other years.
Agree with this. Club football the future, many of the natural imbalances co football has are balanced out
What about the counties where a club wins 5 or 6 or more championships in a row? Did that destroy club football for a while in those counties ?
Are we not mentioning Dublin enough on this thread for your liking?
An attention seeking post if I ever read one.
We'll see how the Super 8 goes and what the opinions are.
You could run a championship in football in a similar format to the new hurling format, with a league first and knockout second. You could keep the provincials and knock out some of the provincial unbalance (although not all!).
For example.
Munster: 1 group of 6 teams - top 2 play in Munster final
Connacht: 1 group of 6 teams (incl London) - top 2 play in Connacht final
Leinster: 1 group of 6 teams and 1 group of 5 teams - winner of each group plays in Leinster final
Ulster: 1 group of 5 teams and 1 group of 4 teams - winner of each group plays in Ulster final (potentially consider throwing London into Ulster to even up numbers a bit more)
There'll be some proper hammerings, but Kerry, Galway and Ros have dished out hammerings this year anyway. I know nobody would want to see the Dubs hammering 5 teams, but the rule for them should be that for group games that all 5 should be away, unless the opponents wants Croke Park (i.e. a 1 team vote rather than a 12 team vote).
Top 2 in each of the 6 divisions qualify for the knockout stages as well as third in the Connacht and Munster groups. So 14 teams for the All Ireland knockout. The group games take place over 5 consecutive weeks.
Then there's a break for the 14 AI qualifiers and there's a month where the clubs in those counties get priority.
But in this period the 18 others along with NY go into the B championship. 3 preliminary matches involving the bottom teams from the groups, leaves 16. B championship proper then played over 4 weeks in a row. As there's no A matches going on, this gets plenty of TV and media coverage, leading to the B final in Croker.
The week after the B final, that the A championship gets underway with the 14 "A" teams. Open draw apart from the provincial winners get home advantage and can't play each other or the team they beat in the provincial final. That leaves 7 teams into the quarters, where they are joined by the B champions - a real reward for the B champs. (Of course it would be tough and a lot of games, but better than no reward I think)
Super 8 would probably be a bit much? - so maybe just straight knockout from there!
Quote from: mup on June 21, 2018, 12:53:10 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 21, 2018, 12:45:54 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 21, 2018, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on June 21, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Run the AI series once every four years like the WC. Just league all other years.
Agree with this. Club football the future, many of the natural imbalances co football has are balanced out
What about the counties where a club wins 5 or 6 or more championships in a row? Did that destroy club football for a while in those counties ?
Are we not mentioning Dublin enough on this thread for your liking?
An attention seeking post if I ever read one.
Don't understand why you'd say that?
It was a genuine question. There are very few Dubs posters on this board any more.
I don't really follow the club game in any other county, but St Brigids in Ros and Crossmaglen in Armagh would be 2 that come to mind that (I think) had a long enough run of successive championships. Although maybe they were both broken up with the odd other winner in their period of dominance? But did people in those counties lose interest in the county championship, poor attendances, other teams not putting in 100% preparation because it was a waste of time, etc?
Call me a traditionalist but I'd get rid of the back door (not that it will ever happen) with a possible second bite of the cherry for beaten provincial finalists.
It's a rarity now that you experience matches of the sheer intensity and atmosphere pre-2001.
Quote from: Hound on June 21, 2018, 01:15:55 PM
Although maybe they were both broken up with the odd other winner in their period of dominance? But did people in those counties lose interest in the county championship, poor attendances, other teams not putting in 100% preparation because it was a waste of time, etc?
Can't speak for Roscommon but yes to a certain extent the club game did suffer. It's starting to recover slightly and Cross are no shoe-ins but the aforementioned was was evident in Armagh especially in the last 5/10 years
I think the imbalance is a huge issue. More funding has to go into weaker counties to provide quality coaching and try and get an interest in GAA. I remember working with a lad a few years ago who took a career break to work full time as a recruitment officer for Parnells. His job involved going into schools and coaching hurling and signing them up with club.
Quote from: Under Lights on June 21, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Run the AI series once every four years like the WC. Just league all other years.
Get rid of it altogether and just have hurling.
Quote from: haranguerer on June 21, 2018, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on June 21, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Run the AI series once every four years like the WC. Just league all other years.
Agree with this. Club football the future, many of the natural imbalances co football has are balanced out
Never gonna happen.
The super 8's is the GAA's cash cow now, and it's all about money now. There'll be no open draw in future, only champions league style c'ships, because they want to milk the big teams worth. Meanwhile, fans are treated like shit.
I defended the gaa when people called them the Grab All Association over the years. Not any more I won't, because that's exactly what they are.
pre match Tail gate parties...ah wait theres no parking..
Quote from: BennyCake on June 21, 2018, 01:52:29 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 21, 2018, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on June 21, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Run the AI series once every four years like the WC. Just league all other years.
Agree with this. Club football the future, many of the natural imbalances co football has are balanced out
Never gonna happen.
The super 8's is the GAA's cash cow now, and it's all about money now. There'll be no open draw in future, only champions league style c'ships, because they want to milk the big teams worth. Meanwhile, fans are treated like shit.
I defended the gaa when people called them the Grab All Association over the years. Not any more I won't, because that's exactly what they are.
I guess the natural evolution is for the fans of the counties not making (and achieving in) the super 8's to concentrate more on club football. It potentially will be bottom up, rather than top down.
Quote from: Hound on June 21, 2018, 08:57:37 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 20, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 20, 2018, 08:18:05 PM
You haven't said what the problem is.
The sport is rubbish to watch now.
Still a lot better than it's number 1 competitor here, soccer.
World Cup has been largely mindnumbingly boring. Bar Spain-Portugal, which was great and Mexico upsetting the Germans, which was interesting.
Yesterday was typical. Three 1-0 wins for the favourites. ~Yawn inducing
Is that what you actually think is happening in Russia or what you want to be happening in Russia?
To answer the question, stop tinkering. It's all gone to shite since back doors and assorted money making nonsense were introduced
Quote from: Hound on June 21, 2018, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: mup on June 21, 2018, 12:53:10 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 21, 2018, 12:45:54 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on June 21, 2018, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on June 21, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
Run the AI series once every four years like the WC. Just league all other years.
Agree with this. Club football the future, many of the natural imbalances co football has are balanced out
What about the counties where a club wins 5 or 6 or more championships in a row? Did that destroy club football for a while in those counties ?
Are we not mentioning Dublin enough on this thread for your liking?
An attention seeking post if I ever read one.
Don't understand why you'd say that?
It was a genuine question. There are very few Dubs posters on this board any more.
I don't really follow the club game in any other county, but St Brigids in Ros and Crossmaglen in Armagh would be 2 that come to mind that (I think) had a long enough run of successive championships. Although maybe they were both broken up with the odd other winner in their period of dominance? But did people in those counties lose interest in the county championship, poor attendances, other teams not putting in 100% preparation because it was a waste of time, etc?
Sincere apologies. I picked you up completely wrong.
To answer your question I don't know. But I don't think you are comparing like with like. I don't believe The Roscommon and Armagh CB's 'favoured' the clubs in question during those periods.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on June 21, 2018, 02:03:57 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 21, 2018, 08:57:37 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 20, 2018, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 20, 2018, 08:18:05 PM
You haven't said what the problem is.
The sport is rubbish to watch now.
Still a lot better than it's number 1 competitor here, soccer.
World Cup has been largely mindnumbingly boring. Bar Spain-Portugal, which was great and Mexico upsetting the Germans, which was interesting.
Yesterday was typical. Three 1-0 wins for the favourites. ~Yawn inducing
Is that what you actually think is happening in Russia or what you want to be happening in Russia?
To answer the question, stop tinkering. It's all gone to shite since back doors and assorted money making nonsense were introduced
The back doors aren't going to disappear now. The c'ship format is shite, but the gaa don't care as fans still go to matches.
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 21, 2018, 01:31:48 PM
I think the imbalance is a huge issue. More funding has to go into weaker counties to provide quality coaching and try and get an interest in GAA. I remember working with a lad a few years ago who took a career break to work full time as a recruitment officer for Parnells. His job involved going into schools and coaching hurling and signing them up with club.
Well that's exactly the "paid coaches" that everyone talks about. They don't go near the elite kids, they teach basic skills to those who have done little/no GAA and encourage them to join the club where the volunteers will look after them. I think I remember hearing they get paid something in the early €20ks, but I don't know for sure. Half the money comes from the club the other half from the GAA.
No question that this should be available in every county, maybe one GDO per 2 or 3 clubs. Certainly in places where it's not automatic that the schoolkids would head down to the GAA club in the town/village anyway.Certainly in places where it's not automatic that the schoolkids would head down to the GAA club in the town/village anyway. I doubt anyone would be turned down if they said they would raise half the money from their members.
Quote from: mup on June 21, 2018, 02:14:33 PM
Sincere apologies. I picked you up completely wrong.
To answer your question I don't know. But I don't think you are comparing like with like. I don't believe The Roscommon and Armagh CB's 'favoured' the clubs in question during those periods.
Yeah, and that's where I fail to get across my point because many just don't believe it.
Like, you do have people who seem to believe that Dublin players don't work!
People seem to think that the GAA have created this Dubs team to dominate, and that for some reason its a completely different story to when Kerry and Kilkenny dominated.
I honestly don't believe the GAA favour the Dubs intercounty team, or do as much as they can to help the Dubs win. The difference is the Dubs are now taking advantage of the natural advantages they they have. And many of those have increased (population movement from country to Dublin)
The money argument is a complete red herring. The money the GAA gives to the Dubs goes completely to grassroots and not to elite. Maybe a GDO persuaded someone to play GAA (who otherwise would not) and they went on to become a superstar. But I doubt it. For sure they've helped drive membership which brings in more money to clubs to improve facilities and more volunteers, but that's a hardly a bad thing.
We have a huge advantage in playing numbers throughout the county, and the Dublin County Board are now making best use of that, ex-county players volunteering to take underage development squads, etc and very importantly a vibrant and well run club scene.
The DCB are also exploiting commercial revenues much better, so players are looked after very well. Players are also looked after really well in Kerry and Mayo, but we have the huge advantage that all our players are within a relatively short distance of training pitches, etc. So it's just easier.
And fans and players not having the hassle, inconvenience, cost, etc of travelling to many away games is a great advantage.
Maybe Dublin should build a 30k-40k stadium to be their home and take away some of the perceived Croke Park advantage. Although maybe that would be a waste of money.
We're obviously not doing everything right in that are minors rarely dominate and would have been miles behind Kerry the last few years and our hurlers, who get just as much funding, can't breakthrough to the big time. But with population continuing to increase I'm sure that will change some day. We need to start moving people away from Dublin!
Quote from: mrdeeds on June 21, 2018, 01:31:48 PM
I think the imbalance is a huge issue. More funding has to go into weaker counties to provide quality coaching and try and get an interest in GAA. I remember working with a lad a few years ago who took a career break to work full time as a recruitment officer for Parnells. His job involved going into schools and coaching hurling and signing them up with club.
Parnells sold their pitch beside the Airport and pissed all their money again signing up mercenaries likes Wooly and Conor Mort. Stephen Cluxton actually dropped down to their intermediate team to play with the lads he grew up with up as senior team was full of outsiders. They never got close to winning senior championship and now in AFL3.
Put the Dublin club champions into the Leinster cship with the other counties. The likes of Vincents,BBoden etc. have as big a population as most counties anyway. That would level it out.
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on June 22, 2018, 12:15:55 AM
Put the Dublin club champions into the Leinster cship with the other counties. The likes of Vincents,BBoden etc. have as big a population as most counties anyway. That would level it out.
The Leinster championship result last November in case you missed it. Rathnew (Wicklow) 1-13. St. Vincent's (Dublin) 1-9
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 22, 2018, 12:35:35 AM
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on June 22, 2018, 12:15:55 AM
Put the Dublin club champions into the Leinster cship with the other counties. The likes of Vincents,BBoden etc. have as big a population as most counties anyway. That would level it out.
The Leinster championship result last November in case you missed it. Rathnew (Wicklow) 1-13. St. Vincent's (Dublin) 1-9
Correct but is usual anti Dublin begrudgery drives that nonsense.
Thread is about inter County where the Monster partly created by HQ has won around 12 out last 13 Leinster Championships, 5 of the last 7 AIs and must be 5 of the last 6 NFLs.
There is no sign of this abating.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 22, 2018, 09:38:11 AM
Thread is about inter County where the Monster partly created by HQ has won around 12 out last 13 Leinster Championships, 5 of the last 7 AIs and must be 5 of the last 6 NFLs.
There is no sign of this abating.
hurling is getting all the praise but they have abandon all but the elite and show no interest in getting any one to join them.
if the football championship was restricteted to 10 teams in a 2 equal division round robin format imagine how many great games there would be and none of the hammering that takeplace annually in the current structure,
but as long as counties like wicklow, Waterford, Leitrim expect to able to enter the sam Maguire every year without any qualification with no hope of winning it the is little can be done with the structures in real terms other than piss about with it
Have we now 3 obsolete Provincial cakewalk Championships and one competitive one?
Next 2 Rounds and the Qtr Final series might reawaken things hopefully.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 24, 2018, 07:18:18 PM
Have we now 3 obsolete Provincial cakewalk Championships and one competitive one?
Next 2 Rounds and the Qtr Final series might reawaken things hopefully.
Not much wrong with Ulster Monaghan, Tyrone and Donegal have been competitive with one another for a good few years now while Armagh, Derry, Down and Cavan have the potential to be strong again. Leinster would reawaken when Dublin is separated from it while Munster is problematic but the GAA won't die in it with Hurling being so strong. Leinster is where the GAA is really dying and an ignored tiered championship won't help.
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 24, 2018, 07:26:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 24, 2018, 07:18:18 PM
Have we now 3 obsolete Provincial cakewalk Championships and one competitive one?
Next 2 Rounds and the Qtr Final series might reawaken things hopefully.
Not much wrong with Ulster Monaghan, Tyrone and Donegal have been competitive with one another for a good few years now while Armagh, Derry, Down and Cavan have the potential to be strong again. Leinster would reawaken when Dublin is separated from it while Munster is problematic but the GAA won't die in it with Hurling being so strong. Leinster is where the GAA is really dying and an ignored tiered championship won't help.
Can only speak for what I see in Westmeath. For 4 years prior to this year Westmeath won every game they played in Leinster until they met Dublin. Beat Meath for first time ever, and Kildare for first time in a long long time. Also 2 wins against rivals Offaly were a big deal. In all 4 games against Dublin they were stuffed. Played defensively in 2 finals and kept the score down to semi respectable levels. Last year the players asked to play more offensively, were allowed to, and got annihilated. They were embarrassed. Slagged off and joked at all over social media.
What happened this year? Roughly 10 of the best 25 players in the county packed it in. All still below 30. Another has announced ( ::) ) his retirement since the Armagh game. Still in his prime.
I don't blame any of them. There is no point. They don't get out anything close to what they put in. This will be seen right across the country, but I guess Leinster is seeing it first.
So take Dublin out of Leinster and Kerry out of Munster and let them have automatic entry to the big 8?
Save all those one sided massacres.
Donegal making a good case to join them with the scores they ran up in 4 Ulster games this year.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 24, 2018, 07:39:45 PM
So take Dublin out of Leinster and Kerry out of Munster and let them have automatic entry to the big 8?
Save all those one sided massacres.
Donegal making a good case to join them with the scores they ran up in 4 Ulster games this year.
We done that last year. Means nothing.
Quote from: Rossfan on June 24, 2018, 07:18:18 PM
Have we now 3 obsolete Provincial cakewalk Championships and one competitive one?
Yup
It is very sad
Quote from: shark on June 24, 2018, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 24, 2018, 07:26:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 24, 2018, 07:18:18 PM
Have we now 3 obsolete Provincial cakewalk Championships and one competitive one?
Next 2 Rounds and the Qtr Final series might reawaken things hopefully.
Not much wrong with Ulster Monaghan, Tyrone and Donegal have been competitive with one another for a good few years now while Armagh, Derry, Down and Cavan have the potential to be strong again. Leinster would reawaken when Dublin is separated from it while Munster is problematic but the GAA won't die in it with Hurling being so strong. Leinster is where the GAA is really dying and an ignored tiered championship won't help.
Can only speak for what I see in Westmeath. For 4 years prior to this year Westmeath won every game they played in Leinster until they met Dublin. Beat Meath for first time ever, and Kildare for first time in a long long time. Also 2 wins against rivals Offaly were a big deal. In all 4 games against Dublin they were stuffed. Played defensively in 2 finals and kept the score down to semi respectable levels. Last year the players asked to play more offensively, were allowed to, and got annihilated. They were embarrassed. Slagged off and joked at all over social media.
What happened this year? Roughly 10 of the best 25 players in the county packed it in. All still below 30. Another has announced ( ::) ) his retirement since the Armagh game. Still in his prime.
I don't blame any of them. There is no point. They don't get out anything close to what they put in. This will be seen right across the country, but I guess Leinster is seeing it first.
When they get to play the football version of the Christy Ring cup they will come flooding back though.
You're beginning to sound like a broken record now.
Or are you pining for the old days when a hurling match between Kildare and London would attract 20,000??
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 24, 2018, 07:43:38 PM
Quote from: shark on June 24, 2018, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on June 24, 2018, 07:26:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 24, 2018, 07:18:18 PM
Have we now 3 obsolete Provincial cakewalk Championships and one competitive one?
Next 2 Rounds and the Qtr Final series might reawaken things hopefully.
Not much wrong with Ulster Monaghan, Tyrone and Donegal have been competitive with one another for a good few years now while Armagh, Derry, Down and Cavan have the potential to be strong again. Leinster would reawaken when Dublin is separated from it while Munster is problematic but the GAA won't die in it with Hurling being so strong. Leinster is where the GAA is really dying and an ignored tiered championship won't help.
Can only speak for what I see in Westmeath. For 4 years prior to this year Westmeath won every game they played in Leinster until they met Dublin. Beat Meath for first time ever, and Kildare for first time in a long long time. Also 2 wins against rivals Offaly were a big deal. In all 4 games against Dublin they were stuffed. Played defensively in 2 finals and kept the score down to semi respectable levels. Last year the players asked to play more offensively, were allowed to, and got annihilated. They were embarrassed. Slagged off and joked at all over social media.
What happened this year? Roughly 10 of the best 25 players in the county packed it in. All still below 30. Another has announced ( ::) ) his retirement since the Armagh game. Still in his prime.
I don't blame any of them. There is no point. They don't get out anything close to what they put in. This will be seen right across the country, but I guess Leinster is seeing it first.
When they get to play the football version of the Christy Ring cup they will come flooding back though.
I'm not claiming to have the solutions here. The Joe McDonagh Cup has received pathetic coverage and I suspect the same would happen in football. And I guess that's the point you're sarcastically making.
This might be a relatively minor detail, but we don't refer to the senior inter-county football championship as 'The Sam Maguire Cup.'
That's just the name of the trophy.
We have perfectly acceptable existing terminology to describe a graded championship, i.e. senior, intermediate, junior, which I daresay would be preferable to 'Tommy Murphy', 'Christy Ring' etc.
Tiered championships work really at both club level and in ladies football. If properly supported they could work equally well at county level. Otherwise the mismatches and hammerings will continue
Dublin are semi professional so it seems logical to prepare something with that in mind. I also think that players in weaker counties, particularly the better ones, must have a pathway to medals. Maybe a Select Provincial team should play Kerry, Donegal or whoever to see who represents that Province. Let's face it, the Qualifiers are a wasteland and the Railway Cup is meaningless albeit a nice idea. Scrap one and resuscitate the other and we might get a bit of competition at least
Great to see Carlow, Fermanagh, Tipperary, and Laois all hammered this weekend. More of this please. These Div 3 and 4 counties need to keep taking these heavy tankings. Eventually then they will wake up and stop blocking a tiered championship. Hopefully they experience massive player turnover. Just because they win one big game doesn't give them a God given right to play at the top level.
Tier the championship but until then keep beating these teams by 10 points +
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 09:28:04 AM
Great to see Carlow, Fermanagh, Tipperary, and Laois all hammered this weekend. More of this please. These Div 3 and 4 counties need to keep taking these heavy tankings. Eventually then they will wake up and stop blocking a tiered championship. Hopefully they experience massive player turnover. Just because they win one big game doesn't give them a God given right to play at the top level.
Tier the championship but until then keep beating these teams by 10 points +
Tipperary lost by 8 points and are a Division 2 team.
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 09:28:04 AM
Great to see Carlow, Fermanagh, Tipperary, and Laois all hammered this weekend. More of this please. These Div 3 and 4 counties need to keep taking these heavy tankings. Eventually then they will wake up and stop blocking a tiered championship. Hopefully they experience massive player turnover. Just because they win one big game doesn't give them a God given right to play at the top level.
Tier the championship but until then keep beating these teams by 10 points +
Poor effort at trolling there. Give it another go.
Sorry who am I trolling? The weaker teams include Cork in that if you want, are holding up a tiered championship. That's the reality but sure you like to watch these drubbings then that's up to you. Everyone else thinks its a joke.
Could somebody who reckons a tiered championship wouldn't work please explain to me how it could possibly be worse than the status quo?
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
Could somebody who reckons a tiered championship wouldn't work please explain to me how it could possibly be worse than the status quo?
The status quo is effectively tiered. It's a broken system.
Average 13 point wins in 4 provincial finals. Competition is very unwell.
Why would anyone bother going to a provincial final? It's exciting beforehand of course with all the talk in Laois and Fermanagh but watching the county get its arse on a plate is not good for inspiring kids.
The Super 8 reminds me of a quote by HL Mencken
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
Quote from: seafoid on June 25, 2018, 10:06:22 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
Could somebody who reckons a tiered championship wouldn't work please explain to me how it could possibly be worse than the status quo?
The status quo is effectively tiered. It's a broken system.
Average 13 point wins in 4 provincial finals. Competition is very unwell.
Why would anyone bother going to a provincial final? It's exciting beforehand of course with all the talk in Laois and Fermanagh but watching the county get its arse on a plate is not good for inspiring kids.
The Super 8 reminds me of a quote by HL Mencken
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
You two lads are like Colm O Rourke and Joe Brolly having a conversation.
Quote from: Tubberman on June 25, 2018, 09:36:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 09:28:04 AM
Great to see Carlow, Fermanagh, Tipperary, and Laois all hammered this weekend. More of this please. These Div 3 and 4 counties need to keep taking these heavy tankings. Eventually then they will wake up and stop blocking a tiered championship. Hopefully they experience massive player turnover. Just because they win one big game doesn't give them a God given right to play at the top level.
Tier the championship but until then keep beating these teams by 10 points +
Tipperary lost by 8 points and are a Division 2 team.
... almost promoted to Division 1, three months ago.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 25, 2018, 10:11:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 25, 2018, 10:06:22 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
Could somebody who reckons a tiered championship wouldn't work please explain to me how it could possibly be worse than the status quo?
The status quo is effectively tiered. It's a broken system.
Average 13 point wins in 4 provincial finals. Competition is very unwell.
Why would anyone bother going to a provincial final? It's exciting beforehand of course with all the talk in Laois and Fermanagh but watching the county get its arse on a plate is not good for inspiring kids.
The Super 8 reminds me of a quote by HL Mencken
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
You two lads are like Colm O Rourke and Joe Brolly having a conversation.
High praise indeed.
I'm assuming Seafóid is Brolly.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
Could somebody who reckons a tiered championship wouldn't work please explain to me how it could possibly be worse than the status quo?
It would become self-fulfilling, it would erode what little interest their is in my counties, which will affect ticket sales, sponsorship etc etc That is turn will affect team prep and the gap will just grow bigger and bigger.
It might be showed on TG4 but for how long and it certainly won't seep into a county's consciousness never made a national consciousness.
The country is not big enough for a tiered championship. The Christy Ring final was shown on YouTube, even TG4 didn't consider worthy to broadcast properly.
The majority of people calling for it, Jinxy aside, are from footballing elite counties.
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:14:48 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 25, 2018, 10:11:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 25, 2018, 10:06:22 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
Could somebody who reckons a tiered championship wouldn't work please explain to me how it could possibly be worse than the status quo?
The status quo is effectively tiered. It's a broken system.
Average 13 point wins in 4 provincial finals. Competition is very unwell.
Why would anyone bother going to a provincial final? It's exciting beforehand of course with all the talk in Laois and Fermanagh but watching the county get its arse on a plate is not good for inspiring kids.
The Super 8 reminds me of a quote by HL Mencken
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
You two lads are like Colm O Rourke and Joe Brolly having a conversation.
High praise indeed.
I'm assuming Seafóid is Brolly.
No offense but I would rather listen in on the conversation of two drunken farmers in a bar.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 09:59:36 AM
Could somebody who reckons a tiered championship wouldn't work please explain to me how it could possibly be worse than the status quo?
It would become self-fulfilling, it would erode what little interest their is in my counties, which will affect ticket sales, sponsorship etc etc That is turn will affect team prep and the gap will just grow bigger and bigger.
It might be showed on TG4 but for how long and it certainly won't seep into a county's consciousness never made a national consciousness.
The country is not big enough for a tiered championship. The Christy Ring final was shown on YouTube, even TG4 didn't consider worthy to broadcast properly.
The majority of people calling for it, Jinxy aside, are from footballing elite counties.
Well said.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
This is exactly the problem!
We should be designing structures/coaching/financial structures or whatever to CLOSE the gap between the strong and the weak. Not to make it bigger.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
The biggest crowd at club football games in Roscommon us usually the Intermediate Final.
Emlyn Mulligan will never play in Croke Park.
Leitrim are sponsored by a small family run hotel.
There are no concrete proposals - just people giving out about "a B Championship" or "a tiered Championship ".
And the prophets of doom tell us it would be the end of everything.
Quote from: westbound on June 25, 2018, 10:41:56 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
This is exactly the problem!
We should be designing structures/coaching/financial structures or whatever to CLOSE the gap between the strong and the weak. Not to make it bigger.
That's not the problem.
That's modern sport.
There is no amount of money that you can throw at Leitrim that will make them competitive with Dublin in the modern era.
We need to get away from this well-intentioned but misguided idea.
Anyway, the concept of competitiveness is all relative.
Leitrim are competitive in the league, they are not competitive in the championship (unless they are playing teams from their league division).
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
The provincials are badly skewed. Leinster is a joke. Munster is a joke. Connacht and Ulster are the only relatively competitive provinces. And even at that you have Roscommon, Galway and Mayo, 3 teams and in Ulster it is Donegal, Tyrone and Monaghan.
Leitrim should be playing a team at their level. These hammerings do nothing for either team. Look at the turnover of players for god sake.
People who are calling for a tiered championship are doing it with the weaker counties in mind. It suits Dublin to rack up Leinster titles and medals. They don't care.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:51:56 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.
I am sure he will, but it should be a story on the National consciousness, elevating it above sport, imagine if he was playing Kilkenny in the Leinster Championship, sharing a field with those warriors after a near death experience. That's a movie right there....
If you look at the provincial championships and how they would stack up with a potential tiered championship where you condense the 4 divisions for 2019 into three tiers, you get the following (some creative license has been applied:
Galway, Mayo & Roscommon would be in the same championship.
Tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal & Cavan would be in the same championship.
Meath, Kildare & Longford would be in the same championship.
Cork, Tipperary & Clare would be in the same championship.
Plenty of local rivalry there and plenty of competition.
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 10:54:00 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
The provincials are badly skewed. Leinster is a joke. Munster is a joke. Connacht and Ulster are the only relatively competitive provinces. And even at that you have Roscommon, Galway and Mayo, 3 teams and in Ulster it is Donegal, Tyrone and Monaghan.
Leitrim should be playing a team at their level. These hammerings do nothing for either team. Look at the turnover of players for god sake.
People who are calling for a tiered championship are doing it with the weaker counties in mind. It suits Dublin to rack up Leinster titles and medals. They don't care.
If you cared then listen to what they say, they know their own culture and I have yet to hear Carlow, Laois, Ferrmanagh or Meath bar Jinxy call for a tiered championship. On the other the elites from Kerry Dublin etc would love it all to be ring-fenced.
The only evidence of a tiered championship structure is in hurling, and that is a f**king joke below the McCathy level. Teams aren't getting better they are getting worse.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:51:56 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.
I am sure he will, but it should be a story on the National consciousness, elevating it above sport, imagine if he was playing Kilkenny in the Leinster Championship, sharing a field with those warriors after a near death experience. That's a movie right there....
Would he rather lose by 50 points to Kilkenny or win a Christy Ring Cup in Croke Park?
We've no way of knowing, but I know which I would prefer.
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 11:05:01 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:51:56 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.
I am sure he will, but it should be a story on the National consciousness, elevating it above sport, imagine if he was playing Kilkenny in the Leinster Championship, sharing a field with those warriors after a near death experience. That's a movie right there....
Would he rather lose by 50 points to Kilkenny or win a Christy Ring Cup in Croke Park?
We've no way of knowing, but I know which I would prefer.
A 50 point loss no doubt. But at least it might be on TV and the back page of some newspaper. Fully embarrass themselves to a national audience.
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 11:05:01 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:51:56 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.
I am sure he will, but it should be a story on the National consciousness, elevating it above sport, imagine if he was playing Kilkenny in the Leinster Championship, sharing a field with those warriors after a near death experience. That's a movie right there....
Would he rather lose by 50 points to Kilkenny or win a Christy Ring Cup in Croke Park?
We've no way of knowing, but I know which I would prefer.
A 50 point loss no doubt. But at least it might be on TV and the back page of some newspaper. Fully embarrass themselves to a national audience.
yea cause that's all the matter's, the result. The kid was nearly dead you gobshite. What a f*cking arsehole you are.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 11:05:01 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:51:56 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.
I am sure he will, but it should be a story on the National consciousness, elevating it above sport, imagine if he was playing Kilkenny in the Leinster Championship, sharing a field with those warriors after a near death experience. That's a movie right there....
Would he rather lose by 50 points to Kilkenny or win a Christy Ring Cup in Croke Park?
We've no way of knowing, but I know which I would prefer.
A 50 point loss no doubt. But at least it might be on TV and the back page of some newspaper. Fully embarrass themselves to a national audience.
yea cause that's all the matter's, the result. The kid was nearly dead you gobshite. What a f*cking arsehole you are.
Take it whatever way you want. My comment is in relation to the topic of a tiered championship and nothing to do with the lad. But you want to take it in that context. That's fine. Says more about you than it does me.
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 11:49:14 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 11:05:01 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:51:56 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.
I am sure he will, but it should be a story on the National consciousness, elevating it above sport, imagine if he was playing Kilkenny in the Leinster Championship, sharing a field with those warriors after a near death experience. That's a movie right there....
Would he rather lose by 50 points to Kilkenny or win a Christy Ring Cup in Croke Park?
We've no way of knowing, but I know which I would prefer.
A 50 point loss no doubt. But at least it might be on TV and the back page of some newspaper. Fully embarrass themselves to a national audience.
yea cause that's all the matter's, the result. The kid was nearly dead you gobshite. What a f*cking arsehole you are.
Take it whatever way you want. My comment is in relation to the topic of a tiered championship and nothing to do with the lad. But you want to take it in that context. That's fine. Says more about you than it does me.
No it says you are either illiterate or an arsehole, we were talking about a hypothetical situation regarding the kid, you threw in your ill-informed opinion on top of that.
There is already a de facto tiering given the gaps between teams in the big matches
20 teams are in the no chance pot and out by the end of the last r3 match . They give great entertainment in May and June but they don't qualify for all stars .
8 teams play in r4 of the qualifiers and can play 20 minutes of football when the mojo is present. They all have some sort of Achilles heel or Achilles cruciate or Achilles psychological issue.
3 teams win the provincial final at a canter and are the supporting cast to
The one and only Dublin
We know that attendances have been falling for a number of years. I wonder if it is similar for RTE viewing figures.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 11:52:25 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 11:49:14 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2018, 11:30:16 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 11:05:01 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:51:56 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 25, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
Weaker teams use the league to improve standards, that is a sustainable and realistic competition for all counties. The Championship is just an opportunity, a moment of hope. The fact that it's rarely taken should not be be the story, the story is the romance and for those 70 mins you are the same as Kerry or Dublin. An equal.
In the Christy Ring Cup, one of Kildare's star's on Saturday was James Burke. He was in a coma suffering meningitis in April. These are the kind of stories that get suppressed in Tiered competitions.
That story should have been the lead on the Sunday Game, barely got a comment.
I saw that story, but the only reason I did is social media, which is another important consideration.
How would you say James felt after winning the cup, given the year he has had?
Now contrast that with Kildare playing Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford etc. in a hypothetical Leinster hurling championship.
James got his day in the sun, and he'll remember that for the rest of his life.
I am sure he will, but it should be a story on the National consciousness, elevating it above sport, imagine if he was playing Kilkenny in the Leinster Championship, sharing a field with those warriors after a near death experience. That's a movie right there....
Would he rather lose by 50 points to Kilkenny or win a Christy Ring Cup in Croke Park?
We've no way of knowing, but I know which I would prefer.
A 50 point loss no doubt. But at least it might be on TV and the back page of some newspaper. Fully embarrass themselves to a national audience.
yea cause that's all the matter's, the result. The kid was nearly dead you gobshite. What a f*cking arsehole you are.
Take it whatever way you want. My comment is in relation to the topic of a tiered championship and nothing to do with the lad. But you want to take it in that context. That's fine. Says more about you than it does me.
No it says you are either illiterate or an arsehole, we were talking about a hypothetical situation regarding the kid, you threw in your ill-informed opinion on top of that.
Yet you had no problem with Jinxy's comment.....
Quote from: Jinxy on June 25, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
Weaker counties are trying to compete in an arms race that they have no hope of winning, Dinny.
The purpose of a tiered championship is not to bring a Division 4 team up to a Division 1 standard.
A three-tiered championship, with a one-up, one-down rule would give teams a realistic aspiration.
You have to win your division or you stay there.
That is the definition of meaningful competition.
The TV rights package could build in coverage of the intermediate and junior championships, and I would advocate that each championship would finish with a series of games, based on final positions in the table.
So, your goal is to make the final series, which is attainable and realistic.
I am not denying for one second that this would be a culture-shock, but the current inter-county championship structure is an anomaly.
We're basically bringing it back into line with the majority of GAA competitions.
Will it make the gap between the strong and weak bigger?
Probably, but the strong won't be playing the weak.
I agree, 100% Jinxy, part from the fact that I don't see it making the gap any bigger. We will always have the big counties, due to size, history and resources, for the rest of the counties, good teams will come around in cycles.
Will it lead to Carlow winning an all Ireland? That's doubtful, but it may lead to them being able to build something and work their way up to consistently compete with the bigger guns.
I don't see why the GAA always has to have the same model for the championship. Sometimes the competition is open eg the 90s when 6 or 7 counties won Sam. Now is more like a monopoly situation.
They could bring back provincials when the openness returns.
Quote from: seafoid on June 25, 2018, 05:31:54 PM
I don't see why the GAA always has to have the same model for the championship. Sometimes the competition is open eg the 90s when 6 or 7 counties won Sam. Now is more like a monopoly situation.
They could bring back provincials when the openness returns.
When the openness returns? You mean when it's a open dog fight between Dublin and Kerry?
Provincials would be like Home store and Mores slogan
''When they're gone they're gone!''
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 25, 2018, 05:49:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 25, 2018, 05:31:54 PM
I don't see why the GAA always has to have the same model for the championship. Sometimes the competition is open eg the 90s when 6 or 7 counties won Sam. Now is more like a monopoly situation.
They could bring back provincials when the openness returns.
When the openness returns? You mean when it's a open dog fight between Dublin and Kerry?
Provincials would be like Home store and Mores slogan ''When they're gone they're gone!''
As soon as a BMW team wins. It happens after monopoly and duopoly collapse
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 20, 2018, 09:23:41 PM
I'd say interest in the games has never been as high as we will see come super 8s in the next few weeks - will be non stop high quality games with big crowds and massive media coverage
Won't be a word about interest then I'd say.
Spot on.
An awful lot of interest created in the Kildare v Mayo game anyway ;D
Force teams to give up home advantage
Quote from: Solo_run on June 26, 2018, 02:03:19 PM
Force teams to give up home advantage
and create a row and get the championship back on the front pages
soccer had saipan
Quote from: rosnarun on June 26, 2018, 04:33:13 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 26, 2018, 02:03:19 PM
Force teams to give up home advantage
and create a row and get the championship back on the front pages
soccer had saipan
Fairly sure soccer was going to be front page news regardless the summer we made our third ever World Cup.
I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off. If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s. Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game.
There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:
- Football not as good to watch. Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal. One of the delights of football that is resigned to history. Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum. The product is not as good. Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play. However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
- Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News. Bang on the money. The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against. Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts. No entertainment value in that. GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field. Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers.
- Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about. Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid. There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV. Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc. Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground.
Quote from: APM on June 26, 2018, 04:56:37 PM
I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off. If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s. Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game.
There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:
- Football not as good to watch. Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal. One of the delights of football that is resigned to history. Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum. The product is not as good. Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play. However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
- Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News. Bang on the money. The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against. Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts. No entertainment value in that. GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field. Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers.
- Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about. Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid. There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV. Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc. Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground.
They're making some progress on this one, at least.
Good post.
Quote from: Hardy on June 27, 2018, 11:07:22 PM
Quote from: APM on June 26, 2018, 04:56:37 PM
I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off. If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s. Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game.
There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:
- Football not as good to watch. Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal. One of the delights of football that is resigned to history. Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum. The product is not as good. Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play. However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
- Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News. Bang on the money. The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against. Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts. No entertainment value in that. GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field. Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers.
- Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about. Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid. There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV. Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc. Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground.
They're making some progress on this one, at least.
Good post.
At the Kildare minor match tonight.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgugPCbX4AAw0Gj.jpg)
Quote from: APM on June 26, 2018, 04:56:37 PM
I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off. If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s. Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game.
There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:
- Football not as good to watch. Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal. One of the delights of football that is resigned to history. Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum. The product is not as good. Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play. However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
- Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News. Bang on the money. The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against. Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts. No entertainment value in that. GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field. Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers.
- Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about. Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid. There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV. Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc. Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground.
There was an article about the Leinster hurling Final on RTe yesterday. Kilkenny have a few good young lads 21/22 "but you need at least 3 or 4 years of Strength and Conditioning these days". the Galway players have been in the gym for the last 6 years.
That is also happening in football. You need the skill AND the brawn AND the fitness AND the team interplay together. And it wasn't the case in the 90s. So you get entrenched winners and very high drop out rates.
If Mayo hadn't been so courageous since 2011 the problem would have been more obvious.
In hurling, Kilkenny's hegemony (2006-12) with the follow through in 14 and 15 was built on destroying teams from Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway in succession. None of them came back. Only Tipp had the resources to beat Kilkenny after losing. And then only once. Kilkenny were imperious for a decade.
Quote from: Hardy on June 27, 2018, 11:07:22 PM
Quote from: APM on June 26, 2018, 04:56:37 PM
I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off. If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s. Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game.
There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:
- Football not as good to watch. Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal. One of the delights of football that is resigned to history. Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum. The product is not as good. Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play. However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
- Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News. Bang on the money. The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against. Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts. No entertainment value in that. GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field. Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers.
- Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about. Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid. There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV. Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc. Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground.
They're making some progress on this one, at least.
Good post.
Hardy, if I recall correctly, you agreed with me that time too. You've been about this place a long, long time. Nearly as long as Tony Fearon!
Quote from: APM on June 28, 2018, 08:22:59 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 27, 2018, 11:07:22 PM
Quote from: APM on June 26, 2018, 04:56:37 PM
I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off. If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s. Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game.
There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:
- Football not as good to watch. Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal. One of the delights of football that is resigned to history. Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum. The product is not as good. Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play. However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
- Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News. Bang on the money. The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against. Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts. No entertainment value in that. GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field. Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers.
- Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about. Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid. There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV. Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc. Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground.
They're making some progress on this one, at least.
Good post.
Hardy, if I recall correctly, you agreed with me that time too. You've been about this place a long, long time. Nearly as long as Tony Fearon!
Hardyarse the fiddler went awol there for a while in the late 90s.
Quote from: APM on June 28, 2018, 08:22:59 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 27, 2018, 11:07:22 PM
Quote from: APM on June 26, 2018, 04:56:37 PM
I remember posting here under a different name during the early noughties in a previous incarnation of the board, that I was concerned about over exposure of the GAA where interest would wear off because of so many televised games and once the novelty of the qualifiers wore off. If anyone thinks that attendances will bottom out, just look at the history of the Railway Cup which attracted huge numbers in the 1950s and 60s. Now they are lucky to attract a couple of hundred spectators. Maintaining good attendances isn't inevitable and at the minute the GAA seems to be focusing on growing the number of attendances by growing the number of games, instead of increasing the numbers per game.
There are several things that are doing untold damage at the moment:
- Football not as good to watch. Think back to the early 90's with Bernard Flynn, Mickey Linden and James McCartan sprinting out to the wing to win long angled balls, turning their man and running at goal. One of the delights of football that is resigned to history. Now, its pass the ball laterally to someone running in an arc from the sideline - repeat ad naseum. The product is not as good. Either we go to 13 aside or change the technical rules to stop defensive play. However, that will lead to more hammerings, which is the second problem.
- Hammerings - too many of them - look at Cahir O'Kane's article in today's Irish News. Bang on the money. The best teams are getting better and harder to defend against. Not even Dublin fans want to see the Dubs beat Westmeath by 20pts. No entertainment value in that. GAA need to spend money creating a level playing field. Dublin do not need any more money given their natural advantage in sponsorship and sheer numbers.
- Half empty stadia - This is one thing the GAA can do something about. Playing a game that will attract 20,000 in Croke Park is stupid. There is no atmosphere in the ground and it looks rubbish on TV. Yet they continue to do this. Instead, why not bring these games to Newbridge etc. Big demand for tickets and rockin atmosphere in the ground.
They're making some progress on this one, at least.
Good post.
Hardy, if I recall correctly, you agreed with me that time too. You've been about this place a long, long time. Nearly as long as Tony Fearon!
Longer now.🙂
Play 13 a side.
2 points for a score outside 45
All kick outs must pass 45
50 metre free for any cynical plays
Abolish black card
Bring in sin bin
Go Professional with 8 franchises and start paying the best exponents of the game. Leave whatever is left behind to play a truly amateur competition
Couldn't find anywhere better to out this
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/seán-moran-gaa-needs-to-act-fast-and-decisively-or-amateurism-is-over-1.3633723?mode=amp