Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[tonto1888]

Armaghniac has been provided and appears have ignored 2 post defining 1944 and 1948 definitions of what is considered genocide... but he thinks it isn't so everyone should just go with his opinion 

I am more persuaded by LeoMc's post, as there is a clear intention to damage a large proportion of infrastructure.

from the river to the see Palestine will be free is apparently a call for genocide.

intifada is  call for genocide

calling amd marching for a ceasefire is a call for genocide

The river to the see proposal seems to involve removing Israelis, so that meets the definition of a call for genocide, but not the act.

Intifada is a an "act committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group", so is a genocide by your definition. I would argue that it is not. 

Calling for a ceasefire is clearly not genocide, and no reasonable person claims it is.

by this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?

I have never seen that definition of intifida before either

[armaghniac]

by this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?

I have never seen that definition of intifida before either

Not the same thing, part of Ireland is ruled by another place, Britain.
The problem with the idea of from the river to the sea is that the majority in that area actually want the present arrangement, and some of those who advocate the slogan seem to envisage removing that majority.

As for genocide generally, these definitions clearly make the October attack genocide, and Israel can simply say that their objective is to prevent such genocide in the future.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

by this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?

I have never seen that definition of intifida before either

Not the same thing, part of Ireland is ruled by another place, Britain.
The problem with the idea of from the river to the sea is that the majority in that area actually want the present arrangement, and some of those who advocate the slogan seem to envisage removing that majority.

As for genocide generally, these definitions clearly make the October attack genocide, and Israel can simply say that their objective is to prevent such genocide in the future.

There was no genocide on October 7th, you have gone saying what Israel is doing is not genocide to saying this!!!

I have no idea how you can rationalise what you are posting here.

if some people don't want Palestinians to be free then the issue is with those people not those calling for freedom. International law and the right of return of refugees displaced by conflicts allows for them to return. Israel denies palestinians the right of return.

Nothing in from the river to the sea means genocide. Does BLMs mean genocide for all other races.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

The UN definition is unhelpfully broad.  The "in whole or part" clause is completely vague.  How many of a group do you have to kill before you cross the "in part" threshold?  That vagueness is at the root of the above disagreement.

[Armagh18]

by this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?

I have never seen that definition of intifida before either

Not the same thing, part of Ireland is ruled by another place, Britain.
The problem with the idea of from the river to the sea is that the majority in that area actually want the present arrangement, and some of those who advocate the slogan seem to envisage removing that majority.

As for genocide generally, these definitions clearly make the October attack genocide, and Israel can simply say that their objective is to prevent such genocide in the future.

There was no genocide on October 7th, you have gone saying what Israel is doing is not genocide to saying this!!!

I have no idea how you can rationalise what you are posting here.

if some people don't want Palestinians to be free then the issue is with those people not those calling for freedom. International law and the right of return of refugees displaced by conflicts allows for them to return. Israel denies palestinians the right of return.

Nothing in from the river to the sea means genocide. Does BLMs mean genocide for all other races.

Some of the loopers in that movement would say yes lol

[PadraicHenryPearse]

by this that would mean saying "Free Ireland" or "Brits out" is also a call for genocide?

I have never seen that definition of intifida before either

Not the same thing, part of Ireland is ruled by another place, Britain.
The problem with the idea of from the river to the sea is that the majority in that area actually want the present arrangement, and some of those who advocate the slogan seem to envisage removing that majority.

As for genocide generally, these definitions clearly make the October attack genocide, and Israel can simply say that their objective is to prevent such genocide in the future.

There was no genocide on October 7th, you have gone saying what Israel is doing is not genocide to saying this!!!

I have no idea how you can rationalise what you are posting here.

if some people don't want Palestinians to be free then the issue is with those people not those calling for freedom. International law and the right of return of refugees displaced by conflicts allows for them to return. Israel denies palestinians the right of return.

Nothing in from the river to the sea means genocide. Does BLMs mean genocide for all other races.

Some of the loopers in that movement would say yes lol

the reason I didn't use it as an example earlier was it would invite that sort of comment.

saying BLMs or from the river to the sea is not a call for genocide, the words used do not call for genocide where as we must cut electric, water and food from Gaza is a genocidal comment (especially when the person saying it has the power to do it) or all gazans must die is.

if those who say BLM also hold views like all other races must die then its the expression of all other races must that's genocidal not saying BLM.

it rare you get to hear someone able to speak in the media about Hamas like this and what they previously stated and offered regarding the 2 state solution. A direct comparison to what was on sky yesterday when Israel said no 2 state solution which of course meant western leaders were 'disappointed' to hear.

https://twitter.com/ngeorge00/status/1735611743718502701?t=KZ1hRpUXkk7HZpWcSmzg1Q&s=19

[Keyser soze]

Reminds me of Edwin Poots' Da who advocated for cutting off electricity and public services for catholic areas back in 70's. Same mindset. Spose they are the lost tribe of Israel though

[tbrick18]

Lads this thread is away to the dogs.
Who cares about the semantics around who said what.

The proof of genocide is in what is actually happening in Gaza. What more do you need?
Someone in the Israeli establishing issuing a statement saying "we're doing genocide"?

Regardless of who said what or who continues to deny what's going on, this is genocide.
The Israelis are trying to wipe a people out as is evidenced by the attacks on civilians, the cutting off of water, electricity, food, medical supplies and the blockade of the entire region.
How else could it be described?

[armaghniac]

The UN definition is unhelpfully broad.  The "in whole or part" clause is completely vague.  How many of a group do you have to kill before you cross the "in part" threshold?  That vagueness is at the root of the above disagreement.

Exactly. Let's agree to disagree on the semantics.
However, however you characterise the October 7 attack it was worse in nature, but not in extent, than what has happened since.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

What happened on Oct 7th was not worst in nature than what happened since or even what happened before.

If you are comfortable denying a genocide that genocide scholars have called a genocide that's your perogative.

[seafoid]

The US and Israel are isolated. Soon Israel will be alone.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Israeli leaders certainly seem to regard it as a genocide...   A video compilation of their own words on the matter.

https://twitter.com/againstwarvoice/status/1735246580276506970?t=6_TTUM6RbzXrofF-FxsOAQ&s=19

[Jell 0 Biafra]

CNN news report from inside Gaza.  Contains very distressing images.

https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1735364202024288448?s=20

[marty34]

The US and Israel are isolated. Soon Israel will be alone.

But it's too late...far too late.

[Capt Pat]

The IDF shot and killed 3 Israeli hostages today. They thought they were a threat so they opened fire.