Eighth Amendment poll

Started by Farrandeelin, May 01, 2018, 03:36:55 PM

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Are you in favour of repealing the 8th amendment?

Yes
47 (21.8%)
Yes but have no vote
73 (33.8%)
No
40 (18.5%)
No but have no vote
36 (16.7%)
Undecided
20 (9.3%)

Total Members Voted: 216

Voting closed: May 24, 2018, 03:36:55 PM

gallsman

Quote from: Itchy on May 23, 2018, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"

What about the woman in the crowd who was abused by the amnesty canvassers.  Both vile acts.

The one who said the GP told her to "pop over to England for an abortion" and said Yes canvassers told her a baby with a fatal foetal abnormality was "dead inside with all bit bits hanging out"?

Yeah, that didn't happen.

macdanger2

Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"

He's a right gowl

Rossfan

Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"
Does she not deserve love and respect so?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Syferus

Quote from: Rossfan on May 23, 2018, 11:41:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"
Does she not deserve love and respect so?

Really stooping low with this post, even by your standards.

Jim_Murphy_74

Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"

Possibly trumped by his comments on mental health.

/Jim.

Itchy

Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:54:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 23, 2018, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"

What about the woman in the crowd who was abused by the amnesty canvassers.  Both vile acts.

The one who said the GP told her to "pop over to England for an abortion" and said Yes canvassers told her a baby with a fatal foetal abnormality was "dead inside with all bit bits hanging out"?

Yeah, that didn't happen.

O Gorman admitted it happened and apologised for it or was I dreaming that happened. Point is there are vile people on both sides if this and what's starting to really annoy me is the yes side constantly on about the vile people on the no side while refusing to acknowledge they have been as bad at times.

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2018, 10:49:23 PM
Rhône Mahony is the Master of Holles St maternit hospital so she knows what she is talking about. Irish women already have abortions. The war is lost.

"Dr Mahony yesterday again called for a Yes vote in the referendum - saying abortion is already in Ireland with the use of pills bought over the internet to end pregnancies.

She also said doctors had to wait until a mother was dying before intervening to terminate a pregnancy to save her life, adding that this must change."


Mullen should be repatriated to the 1930s.
how do GRADUATES of the NUI vote for that dinosaur?

seafoid

Ultimately it's about trusting women. The Taliban don't want that.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

gallsman

Quote from: Itchy on May 24, 2018, 07:14:42 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:54:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 23, 2018, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"

What about the woman in the crowd who was abused by the amnesty canvassers.  Both vile acts.

The one who said the GP told her to "pop over to England for an abortion" and said Yes canvassers told her a baby with a fatal foetal abnormality was "dead inside with all bit bits hanging out"?

Yeah, that didn't happen.

O Gorman admitted it happened and apologised for it or was I dreaming that happened. Point is there are vile people on both sides if this and what's starting to really annoy me is the yes side constantly on about the vile people on the no side while refusing to acknowledge they have been as bad at times.

He said something along the lines of "I'm very sorry that happened to you" and made reference to the training and instruction Yes side volunteers are supposed to undergo. He didn't specifically apologise for the individual things she claimed, which were clearly, at the very least, embellished.

He had no other option - he wasn't going to pull Mullen and lambast a women who had just shared a very personal and emotional story.

trailer

Peadar Tóibín what's the story there? Interesting that a SF TD is coming out on the Yes side, yet this party is so comfortable with taking life.

longballin

Quote from: trailer on May 24, 2018, 09:33:40 AM
Peadar Tóibín what's the story there? Interesting that a SF TD is coming out on the Yes side, yet this party is so comfortable with taking life.

Most inane comment on this thread so far

Itchy

Quote from: gallsman on May 24, 2018, 09:10:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on May 24, 2018, 07:14:42 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:54:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 23, 2018, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 23, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Mullen is a disgrace. Young girl in tears telling the story of the time she went to Birmingham for an abortion.

"You deserve love and respect, regardless of what you have done"

What about the woman in the crowd who was abused by the amnesty canvassers.  Both vile acts.

The one who said the GP told her to "pop over to England for an abortion" and said Yes canvassers told her a baby with a fatal foetal abnormality was "dead inside with all bit bits hanging out"?

Yeah, that didn't happen.

O Gorman admitted it happened and apologised for it or was I dreaming that happened. Point is there are vile people on both sides if this and what's starting to really annoy me is the yes side constantly on about the vile people on the no side while refusing to acknowledge they have been as bad at times.

He said something along the lines of "I'm very sorry that happened to you" and made reference to the training and instruction Yes side volunteers are supposed to undergo. He didn't specifically apologise for the individual things she claimed, which were clearly, at the very least, embellished.

He had no other option - he wasn't going to pull Mullen and lambast a women who had just shared a very personal and emotional story.

I don't think it was general like that. The way I heard it he was aware of the specific issue, said that his people know they should not be talking like that and he was sorry for it. Anyway, my main point is that there are some equally vile people on both sides of this thing. I see a lot of bullying on twitter from yes people of genuine normal people who are voting No and I think it is wrong. I see it the other way too but that is already being well publicized by the yes side however they are picking on one or two nutjobs on the No side and claiming that they are indicative of the whole No side.

For me, in a very unscientific way, I have heard many people - friends, neighbours etc, give there reason for a No vote and there are basically 3 things.

1- They feel that at 12 weeks the baby is a living being and they do not want to enable the killing of it
2- They feel that legalising it will increase the numbers of abortions
3- They are worried about Down Syndrome and diability tests withing 12 weeks being used and allowing people to abort babies due to what they might become.

I believe those are all legitimate concerns. The people that hold them are not intolerant monsters.

My personal opinion on each is currently...

1- I probably am uncomfortable about this as I dont know when something is considered a child or not. I know it is not conception and I know it is not after birth. I guess this is down to your personal opinion to decide.
2- Also concerned about this but I remind myself that everyone who wants an abortion can get on a 60 min flight anyway and have one so the point is probably not a point.
3- Worried about this but I consider it will only happen it extremely small amount of cases, at least I hope so.

So in summary I will vote yes but with concerns. I will not be demonising anyone who votes no.

Farrandeelin

It is for those exact 3 reasons Itchy outlined above re no voters, why I'm voting no, with hesitation I might add. The sooner Saturday/Sunday comes the better.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

seafoid

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/23/the-guardian-view-on-the-abortion-referendum-irelands-choice-will-have-a-global-impactq2w

This is, as it must be, Ireland's decision. But its impact will not end there. It will be felt first in Northern Ireland, with its own punitive laws, and then globally. The influx of cash from foreign anti-abortion groups shows that the vote must be understood in the context of efforts to roll back rights, from the US to Brazil to Poland. A yes vote would hearten those resisting the pressure, a no vote embolden those trying to ban safe, legal abortions. Moreover, the amendment exports rather than halts abortions. In recent decades more than 150,000 Irish women have travelled to have abortions, mostly to England. Others use smuggled pills, risking prosecution if they subsequently need medical attention.

For the truth is that voters are not deciding whether women should have abortions, but where they have them and under what circumstances. The eighth amendment merely creates unnecessary trauma for women and denies abortion to a small number who are in the most difficult circumstances – unable to travel due to their immigration status, poverty, a controlling partner, or their medical condition. That bar has even proved fatal: Savita Halappanavar died from septicaemia following a miscarriage, having been repeatedly refused an abortion. Though her death led to a new law allowing abortions where the mother's life is at "substantial" risk, the shock it caused nonetheless galvanised the push for more fundamental reform.

These are the uncomfortable realities of the current system. Set against them are of course deeply rooted moral convictions, but also a no campaign fuelled by myths and downright lies. Proposed new legislation would ensure that controls remained on access to abortion. Liberalisation would not result in the widespread abortion of foetuses with Down's syndrome, as doctors have made clear. And it is not only insulting but flagrantly untrue to suggest that women will seek abortion on a whim.

These attempts to twist facts and stoke sentiment reflect a reactionary, cynical populism familiar from the pro-Brexit and Trump campaigns. Save the Eighth campaigners have urged the public not to trust politicians and have painted themselves as brave anti-establishment voices, latching on to a half-truth: for Ireland has indeed undergone a profound shift in its social attitudes, and what was once controversial now looks like common sense to many. In 1983, 67% of voters supported introducing the amendment. This time, the outcome is too close to call. The taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, has campaigned for yes, though less vigorously than many had hoped. 
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Mayo4Sam

Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2018, 10:56:58 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/23/the-guardian-view-on-the-abortion-referendum-irelands-choice-will-have-a-global-impactq2w

This is, as it must be, Ireland's decision. But its impact will not end there. It will be felt first in Northern Ireland, with its own punitive laws, and then globally. The influx of cash from foreign anti-abortion groups shows that the vote must be understood in the context of efforts to roll back rights, from the US to Brazil to Poland. A yes vote would hearten those resisting the pressure, a no vote embolden those trying to ban safe, legal abortions. Moreover, the amendment exports rather than halts abortions. In recent decades more than 150,000 Irish women have travelled to have abortions, mostly to England. Others use smuggled pills, risking prosecution if they subsequently need medical attention.

For the truth is that voters are not deciding whether women should have abortions, but where they have them and under what circumstances. The eighth amendment merely creates unnecessary trauma for women and denies abortion to a small number who are in the most difficult circumstances – unable to travel due to their immigration status, poverty, a controlling partner, or their medical condition. That bar has even proved fatal: Savita Halappanavar died from septicaemia following a miscarriage, having been repeatedly refused an abortion. Though her death led to a new law allowing abortions where the mother's life is at "substantial" risk, the shock it caused nonetheless galvanised the push for more fundamental reform.

These are the uncomfortable realities of the current system. Set against them are of course deeply rooted moral convictions, but also a no campaign fuelled by myths and downright lies. Proposed new legislation would ensure that controls remained on access to abortion. Liberalisation would not result in the widespread abortion of foetuses with Down's syndrome, as doctors have made clear. And it is not only insulting but flagrantly untrue to suggest that women will seek abortion on a whim.

These attempts to twist facts and stoke sentiment reflect a reactionary, cynical populism familiar from the pro-Brexit and Trump campaigns. Save the Eighth campaigners have urged the public not to trust politicians and have painted themselves as brave anti-establishment voices, latching on to a half-truth: for Ireland has indeed undergone a profound shift in its social attitudes, and what was once controversial now looks like common sense to many. In 1983, 67% of voters supported introducing the amendment. This time, the outcome is too close to call. The taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, has campaigned for yes, though less vigorously than many had hoped.

Excellent point Seafoid, very good post IMO

The comparison to Trump is very apt I think. The attitude of people who were against Trump reminds me of the YES people and this thread has been a perfect example. Their aggressive behaviour is more likely to push middle of the road people away from their point than towards it
Excuse me for talking while you're trying to interrupt me