Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[Tyrone Gaa]

wise up!!! Doesn't matter how well paid their job is...always want more dough!!!

Absolutely get that point, but what I'm saying is, by them talking to RTE shows that the ban is without any doubt enforced by M.Harte (not a squad decision) its not because these lads have a principled stand themselves or they need a few pound. 

[LeoMc]

Did Mickey not say as much last week. I am paraphrasing but I am fairly sure he said that when players come in he tells them his stance and they "agree" to go along with it.

[bigpackiechestout]

All I'm hearing is talk about the failure of the blanket and how our system is fundamentally flawed - the fact of the matter is that Dublin would have beat us on Sunday regardless of how we set up.

For what it's worth i think our intention was to take the game to Dublin on Sunday - in the first half, every chance we got (ie. when we had a close free kick or had a lot of players pushed up) we pressed up on the Dublin kick out and tried to force a turnover. The problem simply was that Cluxton and Dublin were too good and found their men regardless. In my opinion we were then made to look a lot more defensive than we would have intended to play because the Dubs held on the to ball for so long without taking it into contact (as is their right, and they were smart to do so). This is a major disadvantage of our system and ultimately why it probably can't work against the Dubs or the better teams in Croker.

As a previous poster said I think our lads had a bit of a crisis of confidence, characterised by simple handling errors and terrible decisions on the ball that would never normally happen to us. This was hugely magnified by the concession of the early goal and our heads seemed to be down from that point on. Are our lads as mentally strong as the team from the noughties? One thing that everybody assumed in the build up was that we could match the Dubs for pace and fitness but I was stunned by how much faster and stronger than us they were, and how easily they could turn us over. How many times were our lads soloing up the pitch when a Dublin man would catch up and just strip the ball easily from us.

Going forward, it's hard to look ahead to next year at the moment. Under Mickey Harte Tyrone have always had the belief that they could challenge for All-Irelands, and because of this, in the past  couple of years especially, we have had the luxury of being able to call upon the best players in the county. Several other counties in Ulster have struggled to field their best teams because players aren't willing to commit without the prospect of success. Although I hope it's not the case, after the hiding we received on Sunday, and considering the time and commitment our lads put in, it would be understandable if some of them felt they couldn't commit to that again for another couple of years if we are so far off the Dubs and didn't have a realistic prospect of All-Ireland success.

Although, as Philly Jordan said in his RTE column, we could just as easily have drawn Mayo or Kerry in the semi final, beat them and regardless of what happened in the Final we would be being talked about as the second best team in Ireland. And as Jim McGuiness said today in his column, Tyrone only performed to about 25% of their ability on Sunday, so whilst the Dubs are the better team, I don't believe they are as superior as the match suggested. Of our top men, realistically we will only lose Sean and possibly Justy, so if we can introduce a style of play more conducive to bringing the best out of Bradley, Lee Brennan etc and build through the League next year, then all should not be lost. TYRONE ABU!

[Club boi]

All I'm hearing is talk about the failure of the blanket and how our system is fundamentally flawed - the fact of the matter is that Dublin would have beat us on Sunday regardless of how we set up.

For what it's worth i think our intention was to take the game to Dublin on Sunday - in the first half, every chance we got (ie. when we had a close free kick or had a lot of players pushed up) we pressed up on the Dublin kick out and tried to force a turnover. The problem simply was that Cluxton and Dublin were too good and found their men regardless. In my opinion we were then made to look a lot more defensive than we would have intended to play because the Dubs held on the to ball for so long without taking it into contact (as is their right, and they were smart to do so). This is a major disadvantage of our system and ultimately why it probably can't work against the Dubs or the better teams in Croker.

As a previous poster said I think our lads had a bit of a crisis of confidence, characterised by simple handling errors and terrible decisions on the ball that would never normally happen to us. This was hugely magnified by the concession of the early goal and our heads seemed to be down from that point on. Are our lads as mentally strong as the team from the noughties? One thing that everybody assumed in the build up was that we could match the Dubs for pace and fitness but I was stunned by how much faster and stronger than us they were, and how easily they could turn us over. How many times were our lads soloing up the pitch when a Dublin man would catch up and just strip the ball easily from us.

Going forward, it's hard to look ahead to next year at the moment. Under Mickey Harte Tyrone have always had the belief that they could challenge for All-Irelands, and because of this, in the past  couple of years especially, we have had the luxury of being able to call upon the best players in the county. Several other counties in Ulster have struggled to field their best teams because players aren't willing to commit without the prospect of success. Although I hope it's not the case, after the hiding we received on Sunday, and considering the time and commitment our lads put in, it would be understandable if some of them felt they couldn't commit to that again for another couple of years if we are so far off the Dubs and didn't have a realistic prospect of All-Ireland success.

Although, as Philly Jordan said in his RTE column, we could just as easily have drawn Mayo or Kerry in the semi final, beat them and regardless of what happened in the Final we would be being talked about as the second best team in Ireland. And as Jim McGuiness said today in his column, Tyrone only performed to about 25% of their ability on Sunday, so whilst the Dubs are the better team, I don't believe they are as superior as the match suggested. Of our top men, realistically we will only lose Sean and possibly Justy, so if we can introduce a style of play more conducive to bringing the best out of Bradley, Lee Brennan etc and build through the League next year, then all should not be lost. TYRONE ABU!

Dublin would have beat us on Sunday regardless of how we set up - But does it not anger you that Tyrone didnt even "have a go"?? Even when getting beat they stayed in their defensive shell. It was laughably embarrassing

More defensive - lol. We looked "more defensive" because we were ultra defensive, 14 men back, 1 forward. Same as Mayo last year. Harte's "system" isnt workable when Tyrone go behind. If they get in front all well and good they will suck the life out of lesser teams and hit them on the counter

Dubs held on the to ball for so long without taking it into contact - Because we let them showboat and get cheers from their own supporters for fist passing the ball 4 million times around the midfield with nobody pushing up and attempting a tackle

Early goal - see above point about the "system", Tyrone cant dictate the game from behind, early goal a sucker punch and they never recovered

Faster and stronger than us they were - They are virtually a professional outfit. I believe we have equally as good a footballers if they were allowed to play football

Introduce a style of play more conducive - This is all the fans are asking for. 2 years on the trot now Tyrone have been found out in Croke Park against the big boys playing this defensive cr@p that turns many people off them. Mayo went for the replay against Kerry and came out on top, possibly shocking Kerry with their tactics and gameplan. EVERYONE knew what Tyrone were going to do and how they were going to set up which made it easy to plan against

Joe Brolley is right. Football is the winner with these 2 finalists because they play football. The sooner this Donegal and now Tyrone Defensive sh!te leaves the better. Bring back football

[jb81]

Hard to really pinpoint what went wrong on Sunday.

Someone said it above, I don't think we would have beat them playing at our best ( which we clearly weren't ), but the lack of effort?, intensity and pace/fitness was extremely disappointing as it is something we know we do have.
There was no pressure from us. We can't completely complain that the blanket defence was the reason we lost the game, because we didn't execute it like we normally do ( albeit against lesser teams ). Dublin played more men back when we had the ball than we did ( Bradley normally stayed up ), Dublin had every player inside their own 45 numerous times. Disappointing that we were still playing it when 7/8/9 points down though. Same tactic, but executed better by better players. And they have better players, but the best players don't always win, and I thought we had a better 'team' than what showed up on Sunday. There is no shame in getting beat by this Dublin, especially if we had put everything into it, which unfortunately we didn't look like we showed up at all.

Must have been hard to play in that game. We and the players know McCann, Harte, Donnelly, Sludden have pace and power in abundance, but to see these fellas in blue put you to shame in that regard must have been a real kick in the balls. I think our heads did drop very early on when we realised how good they were. Not something I would normally associate with a MH team.

We did give a bit of a go at the start of the 2nd half, but we hit 3/4 wides in a row, which at the very least would have asked some questions and maybe give us a bit of confidence boost.
Everytime we turned over the ball which to be fair we did a good few times, we didn't put it over the bar, everytime they did they pointed. It must have been mentally draining.

They seemed afraid of the dubs, showed them way too much respect. But respect Dublin have earned by being one of the best teams I have ever witnessed.

Where do we go from here, I don't think it can fall on MH, but he must take some responsibility. No plan B as such. But when we did push up on the kick-out it was obviously said to the players take a man and mark him. So how did one and sometimes even two Dubs still be free. Nothing MH can do about players not doing there job. We have a good core group of players. Namely Harte, Donnelly, McCann, C Cavanagh, Bradley, Sludden, Morgan, McCarron and Hampsey has shown well in his first year. But our other players were found out today. McGeary, McCann ( Conal ), McCrory, McNamee just didn't have it. I won't be too harsh on Mulgrew as he is only 19.

Our full back line is a problem, as well as our full forward line if MH chose to have one sometime.

I am not surprised by the defeat more the manner of the defeat. I have no preference if MH stays or goes. I'm not sure anyone can get anymore out of these players, but maybe there are a few different players which might add to them. Would love to see a definitive variation in tactics to see what we can do when let. Will be curious to see what the Count Board decide to do.

Next Year and what we can expect will entirely depend on who is in charge. If it's Logan et al from the U21's then surely we are in for more of the same for years to come?

I would be looking at something like this, playing more attacking but with the capabilities to defend.

1) O'Neill
2) McNamee / Mc Geary / Gorman from Killyclogher
3) Hampsey
4) McCarron
5) McCann
6) C Cavanagh
7) Meyler / Rory Brennan
M Donnelly
9) Harte / McClure
10) Sludden
11) Harte / C McCann / McClure
12) Mulgrew
13) Lee Brennan
14) Canavan  ( Just to scare teams ), would love to find an out and out full forward. Any thoughts from around the clubs ??
15) Bradley

[The Golden Years]

Hard to really pinpoint what went wrong on Sunday.

Someone said it above, I don't think we would have beat them playing at our best ( which we clearly weren't ), but the lack of effort?, intensity and pace/fitness was extremely disappointing as it is something we know we do have.
There was no pressure from us. We can't completely complain that the blanket defence was the reason we lost the game, because we didn't execute it like we normally do ( albeit against lesser teams ). Dublin played more men back when we had the ball than we did ( Bradley normally stayed up ), Dublin had every player inside their own 45 numerous times. Disappointing that we were still playing it when 7/8/9 points down though. Same tactic, but executed better by better players. And they have better players, but the best players don't always win, and I thought we had a better 'team' than what showed up on Sunday. There is no shame in getting beat by this Dublin, especially if we had put everything into it, which unfortunately we didn't look like we showed up at all.

Must have been hard to play in that game. We and the players know McCann, Harte, Donnelly, Sludden have pace and power in abundance, but to see these fellas in blue put you to shame in that regard must have been a real kick in the balls. I think our heads did drop very early on when we realised how good they were. Not something I would normally associate with a MH team.

We did give a bit of a go at the start of the 2nd half, but we hit 3/4 wides in a row, which at the very least would have asked some questions and maybe give us a bit of confidence boost.
Everytime we turned over the ball which to be fair we did a good few times, we didn't put it over the bar, everytime they did they pointed. It must have been mentally draining.

They seemed afraid of the dubs, showed them way too much respect. But respect Dublin have earned by being one of the best teams I have ever witnessed.

Where do we go from here, I don't think it can fall on MH, but he must take some responsibility. No plan B as such. But when we did push up on the kick-out it was obviously said to the players take a man and mark him. So how did one and sometimes even two Dubs still be free. Nothing MH can do about players not doing there job. We have a good core group of players. Namely Harte, Donnelly, McCann, C Cavanagh, Bradley, Sludden, Morgan, McCarron and Hampsey has shown well in his first year. But our other players were found out today. McGeary, McCann ( Conal ), McCrory, McNamee just didn't have it. I won't be too harsh on Mulgrew as he is only 19.

Our full back line is a problem, as well as our full forward line if MH chose to have one sometime.

I am not surprised by the defeat more the manner of the defeat. I have no preference if MH stays or goes. I'm not sure anyone can get anymore out of these players, but maybe there are a few different players which might add to them. Would love to see a definitive variation in tactics to see what we can do when let. Will be curious to see what the Count Board decide to do.

Next Year and what we can expect will entirely depend on who is in charge. If it's Logan et al from the U21's then surely we are in for more of the same for years to come?

I would be looking at something like this, playing more attacking but with the capabilities to defend.

1) O'Neill
2) McNamee / Mc Geary / Gorman from Killyclogher
3) Hampsey
4) McCarron
5) McCann
6) C Cavanagh
7) Meyler / Rory Brennan
M Donnelly
9) Harte / McClure
10) Sludden
11) Harte / C McCann / McClure
12) Mulgrew
13) Lee Brennan
14) Canavan  ( Just to scare teams ), would love to find an out and out full forward. Any thoughts from around the clubs ??
15) Bradley

I think he was found out on Sunday also.  Long Past his best

[omagh_gael]

In my opinion Harte should have one more year on the caveat that the one man in the opposition half is dropped. The reason we play, coach the kids in our clubs and travel the county/country following our club/county is for entertainment and fun. The bottom line is I want to enjoy myself and take my kids along to develop a passion for the games I love.

The game on Sunday was brutal as our team took a trimming but it's beginning to get extremely hard to accept the tactics we are employing and the impact that has on the games we are paying big money to follow. What would Mayo or Kerry do if they had have conceded that early goal? They'd reshuffle their pack and have a go. As a fan it was depressing knowing that Dublin's goal in the 4th minute almost certainly meant we were going to lose the game. What's even more startling is that from row x in the upper Cusack you could tell this mindset had more or less besieged the players. The urgency and resignation appeared to take hold straight away.

It would be really interesting to get an anonymous poll from the panel to see who is happy playing in this current system. Imagine being Mark Bradley who has probably dreamed of wearing the #14 jersey for Tyrone seniors in a full Croke Park on days like Sunday. As far as I can tell (I only managed to rewatch the match to half time) he got one shot off in the whole game. He literally is there to pull defenders out of position. Bullshit.

These issues were held at bay because we were winning and the QF from last year could be written off as a bad day at the office. However, the last three league games against better quality opposition was an early warning sign that this system is totally redundant.

We have a serious bunch of players who have the potential to score the big prize. However, we now have rock solid evidence that the current approach will not do. I'm not saying we should have won on Sunday because the Dubs were awesome, however, a more orthodox approach is unlikely to jeopardise our chances of playing football in August but It will surely provide a decent opposition for the top three teams. We need to put more trust in our natural talent but I have a sinking feeling that Mickey will stick with his guns and keep ploughing this ultra defensive furrow.

[southtyronegael]

omagh gael, your post makes alot of sense and i totally agree with you except where you say mickey should get another year. this is mickeys game plan. he has already said he will not change it after one bad result. do you really think he is gonna let the county board dictate to him how his team should play? he is too stubborn to change now. we need complete change root and branch. that starts with a new manager and a new vision.

[square_ball]

Agree with a previous poster that McCarron is done although I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see McCrory, McNamee and McCarron line out in the first round next year!

Mark Bradley had to be the most frustrated and annoyed out of all the players on Sunday. Up against 3 Dublin defenders and then of course called ashore when understandably he could make no impact against them. All those months training to play in a full house at Croker and his role is to play an impossible position that no footballer past or present could perform in. I'd say he's happy to be back playing for Killyclogher just to get a touch of the ball!

I don't know where I sit on the Harte issue now. It's maybe time for a change I just don't know!

[An Watcher]

Assuming Donegal get back to their old self in any shape or form, could open and expansive football beat them in a dreary day in ballybofey.  It didn't previously hence the negative tactics we see today

[Il Bomber Destro]

Agree with a previous poster that McCarron is done although I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see McCrory, McNamee and McCarron line out in the first round next year!

Mark Bradley had to be the most frustrated and annoyed out of all the players on Sunday. Up against 3 Dublin defenders and then of course called ashore when understandably he could make no impact against them. All those months training to play in a full house at Croker and his role is to play an impossible position that no footballer past or present could perform in. I'd say he's happy to be back playing for Killyclogher just to get a touch of the ball!

I don't know where I sit on the Harte issue now. It's maybe time for a change I just don't know!

Would like to see Cassidy get a few games next year at corner back, he has great pace and is a good player. McKernan will probably be another few years away from being physically ready for marking the elite forwards in big games but should be called in to get some experience.

Sadly there's not an awful lot of players in the county you'd fancy as quality man markers. I agree with what others have said about McCarron, he seems to have lost a lot of pace and got far too top heavy, he's had a poor season but I would still have him in the squad as an option at least, I think he is best suited anymore to the physical guys but his days as a marker for a mobile, elusive forward are numbered. McNamee was outstanding in 2015 but has had a few injuries since and doesn't look to be at the same level. His effort for the goal Sunday was pathetic

Something like this:

1) Morgan
2) Hampsey
3) McCarron
4) Cassidy
5) McCann
6) Rory Brennan
7) Meyler
C Cavanagh
9) McClure
10) R Donnelly
11) Sludden
12) Harte
13) Brennan/Bradley
14) M Donnelly
15) McAliskey

With Mattie playing out around the middle.

Whatever about the players being up to it or not, we need to try a few things new next year. McHugh, Loughran, McCullagh and Cassidy saw next to no action this year. We need to try and develop a ball winner in the full forward line, we need to have at least two men in there at all times and we need to trust our markers a bit more to do the job with less protection.

Ruairi Mullan was a player who impressed me an awful lot at corner back for the u21s a couple of years back. He dropped off the panel fairly sharpish this year, for whatever reason I'm not sure but I think he is well worth another look.

[omagh_gael]

omagh gael, your post makes alot of sense and i totally agree with you except where you say mickey should get another year. this is mickeys game plan. he has already said he will not change it after one bad result. do you really think he is gonna let the county board dictate to him how his team should play? he is too stubborn to change now. we need complete change root and branch. that starts with a new manager and a new vision.

I don't know, I'd say that game will have rattled him big time. Like I say, the Mayo game could be written off as a bad day at the office but Sunday was an out and out disaster. If we line up the same way in 2018 there'll be some uproar.

[southtyronegael]

omagh gael, your post makes alot of sense and i totally agree with you except where you say mickey should get another year. this is mickeys game plan. he has already said he will not change it after one bad result. do you really think he is gonna let the county board dictate to him how his team should play? he is too stubborn to change now. we need complete change root and branch. that starts with a new manager and a new vision.

I don't know, I'd say that game will have rattled him big time. Like I say, the Mayo game could be written off as a bad day at the office but Sunday was an out and out disaster. If we line up the same way in 2018 there'll be some uproar.

the wont be any uproar cause there wont be anyone at the games to roar.

[Frank_The_Tank]

Assuming Donegal get back to their old self in any shape or form, could open and expansive football beat them in a dreary day in ballybofey.  It didn't previously hence the negative tactics we see today

Are you really worried about beating Donegal in ballbofey.  If like to see how open and expansive fairs in croke park in the last rounds of the championship - can't go much worse that doing worse against Dublin than CarlowF

[blewuporstuffed]

Agree with a previous poster that McCarron is done although I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see McCrory, McNamee and McCarron line out in the first round next year!

Mark Bradley had to be the most frustrated and annoyed out of all the players on Sunday. Up against 3 Dublin defenders and then of course called ashore when understandably he could make no impact against them. All those months training to play in a full house at Croker and his role is to play an impossible position that no footballer past or present could perform in. I'd say he's happy to be back playing for Killyclogher just to get a touch of the ball!

I don't know where I sit on the Harte issue now. It's maybe time for a change I just don't know!

Would like to see Cassidy get a few games next year at corner back, he has great pace and is a good player. McKernan will probably be another few years away from being physically ready for marking the elite forwards in big games but should be called in to get some experience.

Sadly there's not an awful lot of players in the county you'd fancy as quality man markers. I agree with what others have said about McCarron, he seems to have lost a lot of pace and got far too top heavy, he's had a poor season but I would still have him in the squad as an option at least, I think he is best suited anymore to the physical guys but his days as a marker for a mobile, elusive forward are numbered. McNamee was outstanding in 2015 but has had a few injuries since and doesn't look to be at the same level. His effort for the goal Sunday was pathetic

Something like this:

1) Morgan
2) Hampsey
3) McCarron
4) Cassidy
5) McCann
6) Rory Brennan
7) Meyler
C Cavanagh
9) McClure
10) R Donnelly
11) Sludden
12) Harte
13) Brennan/Bradley
14) M Donnelly
15) McAliskey

With Mattie playing out around the middle.

Whatever about the players being up to it or not, we need to try a few things new next year. McHugh, Loughran, McCullagh and Cassidy saw next to no action this year. We need to try and develop a ball winner in the full forward line, we need to have at least two men in there at all times and we need to trust our markers a bit more to do the job with less protection.

Ruairi Mullan was a player who impressed me an awful lot at corner back for the u21s a couple of years back. He dropped off the panel fairly sharpish this year, for whatever reason I'm not sure but I think he is well worth another look.

McNamee is along way ahead of cassidy & mccarron in tha FB line