The IRISH RUGBY thread

[screenexile]

Some lad on Twitter said it was witness intimidation . . . jesus wept!!

[magpie seanie]

Best is the captain of Ireland in the week of an absolutely huge game. He's after getting an eyebrow raising contract extension for a guy of his age. His priorities this week should be on beating France and beating France only. Same applies for Henderson. The girl is being proven right about Ulster rugby defending these guys.....a few other team mates were apparently there the previous day.

If 50% of what we heard is true and these guys were mates of mine there's absolutely no way I'd be turning up in court supporting them.

[Frank_The_Tank]

Best and Henderson are fûcking idiots even if they somehow think their mates are innocent despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary. Best in particular should know better than to be associating himself with something like that in public given his position. I doubt Ulster or the IRFU are delighted to see them parading around bringing more attention to an already horrible story.

Frat boys supporting frat boys. You see the same lack of common sense in every walk of life, batten-down-the-hatches support our own against all good judgement, just like the Tom Humphries case with David Walsh writing mealy-mouthed character references and

And to all those trying to rail against the general reaction to this horrific story, you are the shady ones who are unwilling to face the truth. As I said before, your posts will age very badly indeed and I hope some of you will someday come to a stage in your lives when you realise the hypocrisy of the patriarchial knee-jerk response of trying to mitigate a heinous and disgusting act.

Genuine question. If they are found not guilty, will your stance change, or have you decided they are guilty no matter what the court decides?

For me, if they are guilty, I hope they do serious time.

+1 if they are guilty - I'm just not as stupid to make up my mind a few days into the case.  Maybe I read the judge statement to the jury wrong - you are the only people that will hear and see all the evidence in the case apart from Syferus from Roscommon who has seen and heard it all already so he has come to his conclusion.  Care to list this mountain of evidence - you've listed the vaginal bleeding - anytime you have been challenged on the fact that the same thing can occur from consensual sex you fail to address the point.  The witness from the Taxi man does not look good for them I would agree on that point and the text messages she sent to her friend.

[Walter Cronc]

Where are you getting twitter updates Screen?

[AZOffaly]

Best is the captain of Ireland in the week of an absolutely huge game. He's after getting an eyebrow raising contract extension for a guy of his age. His priorities this week should be on beating France and beating France only. Same applies for Henderson. The girl is being proven right about Ulster rugby defending these guys.....a few other team mates were apparently there the previous day.

If 50% of what we heard is true and these guys were mates of mine there's absolutely no way I'd be turning up in court supporting them.

That crossed my mind too.

[GetOverTheBar]

Best is the captain of Ireland in the week of an absolutely huge game. He's after getting an eyebrow raising contract extension for a guy of his age. His priorities this week should be on beating France and beating France only. Same applies for Henderson. The girl is being proven right about Ulster rugby defending these guys.....a few other team mates were apparently there the previous day.

If 50% of what we heard is true and these guys were mates of mine there's absolutely no way I'd be turning up in court supporting them.

Not to play devils advocate, but the girl can't see who is in the courthouse, she wouldn't have a clue who was in the gallery surely, nor less should/would it matter to her?

[Syferus]

Best and Henderson are fûcking idiots even if they somehow think their mates are innocent despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary. Best in particular should know better than to be associating himself with something like that in public given his position. I doubt Ulster or the IRFU are delighted to see them parading around bringing more attention to an already horrible story.

Frat boys supporting frat boys. You see the same lack of common sense in every walk of life, batten-down-the-hatches support our own against all good judgement, just like the Tom Humphries case with David Walsh writing mealy-mouthed character references

And to all those trying to rail against the general reaction to this horrific story, you are the shady ones who are unwilling to face the truth. As I said before, your posts will age very badly indeed and I hope some of you will someday come to a stage in your lives when you realise the hypocrisy of the patriarchial knee-jerk response of trying to mitigate a heinous and disgusting act.

Genuine question. If they are found not guilty, will your stance change, or have you decided they are guilty no matter what the court decides?

For me, if they are guilty, I hope they do serious time.

If justice is served, they will be found guilty.

Rape cases are very hard to try because a court's burden of proof is hard to reach because it's such an intimate act by its nature. You have to understand that a court finding that there isn't enough evidence to convict is not in any way a statement that someone is actually innocent. Again you and others seem to have a hard time disconnecting the legal mechanism for conviction with what someone not associated with a court will use to make a judgement as to if something untoward did happen. A court can't absolve what happened, because there is clear evidence in the medical exam of the women her texts and the defendants' texts (where one of them clearly was trying to mitigate the situation, himself saying she was hysterical and in tears after the rape).

This is a rare rape case in that the prosecution have a very strong case both in terms of physical evidence and correspondence and thus the defendants will have a hard time raking the victim's name through the mud enough to get jurors to acquit them.

[AZOffaly]

Best and Henderson are fûcking idiots even if they somehow think their mates are innocent despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary. Best in particular should know better than to be associating himself with something like that in public given his position. I doubt Ulster or the IRFU are delighted to see them parading around bringing more attention to an already horrible story.

Frat boys supporting frat boys. You see the same lack of common sense in every walk of life, batten-down-the-hatches support our own against all good judgement, just like the Tom Humphries case with David Walsh writing mealy-mouthed character references

And to all those trying to rail against the general reaction to this horrific story, you are the shady ones who are unwilling to face the truth. As I said before, your posts will age very badly indeed and I hope some of you will someday come to a stage in your lives when you realise the hypocrisy of the patriarchial knee-jerk response of trying to mitigate a heinous and disgusting act.

Genuine question. If they are found not guilty, will your stance change, or have you decided they are guilty no matter what the court decides?

For me, if they are guilty, I hope they do serious time.

If justice is served, they will be found guilty.

Rape cases are very hard to try because a court's burden of proof is hard to reach because it's such an intimate act by its nature. You have to understand that a court finding that there isn't enough evidence to convict is not in any way a statement that someone is actually innocent. Again you and others seem to have a hard time disconnecting the legal mechanism for conviction with what someone not associated with a court will use to make a judgement as to if something untoward did happen. A court can't absolve what happened, because there is clear evidence in the medical exam of the women her texts and the defendants' texts (where one of them clearly was trying to mitigate the situation, himself saying she was hysterical and in tears after the rape).

This is a rare rape case in that the prosecution have a very strong case both in terms of physical evidence and correspondence and thus the defendants will have a hard time raking the victim's name through the mud enough to get jurors to acquit them.

Is there something else other than what was reported in the paper?

I would agree that something extremely dodgy went on here, and I personally think it was a horrible situation before you even account for whether it was rape or not. I think the lads involved behaved disgracefully. The question is whether they actually raped her or not, and I just can't tell from what I've read. I would hope the jury and the court will be able to tell.

[Frank_The_Tank]

Best and Henderson are fûcking idiots even if they somehow think their mates are innocent despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary. Best in particular should know better than to be associating himself with something like that in public given his position. I doubt Ulster or the IRFU are delighted to see them parading around bringing more attention to an already horrible story.

Frat boys supporting frat boys. You see the same lack of common sense in every walk of life, batten-down-the-hatches support our own against all good judgement, just like the Tom Humphries case with David Walsh writing mealy-mouthed character references

And to all those trying to rail against the general reaction to this horrific story, you are the shady ones who are unwilling to face the truth. As I said before, your posts will age very badly indeed and I hope some of you will someday come to a stage in your lives when you realise the hypocrisy of the patriarchial knee-jerk response of trying to mitigate a heinous and disgusting act.

Genuine question. If they are found not guilty, will your stance change, or have you decided they are guilty no matter what the court decides?

For me, if they are guilty, I hope they do serious time.

If justice is served, they will be found guilty.

Rape cases are very hard to try because a court's burden of proof is hard to reach because it's such an intimate act by its nature. You have to understand that a court finding that there isn't enough evidence to convict is not in any way a statement that someone is actually innocent. Again you and others seem to have a hard time disconnecting the legal mechanism for conviction with what someone not associated with a court will use to make a judgement as to if something untoward did happen. A court can't absolve what happened, because there is clear evidence in the medical exam of the women her texts and the defendants' texts (where one of them clearly was trying to mitigate the situation, himself saying she was hysterical and in tears after the rape).

This is a rare rape case in that the prosecution have a very strong case both in terms of physical evidence and correspondence and thus the defendants will have a hard time raking the victim's name through the mud enough to get jurors to acquit them.

Is there something else other than what was reported in the paper?

I would agree that something extremely dodgy went on here, and I personally think it was a horrible situation before you even account for whether it was rape or not. I think the lads involved behaved disgracefully. The question is whether they actually raped her or not, and I just can't tell from what I've read. I would hope the jury and the court will be able to tell.

Syferus keeps on about the physical evidence - this is what the prosecution said:

The prosecution said that a doctor who examined her found she had bruising and bleeding.

"These findings would be consistent with blunt trauma to the area but do not demonstrate whether the intercourse was consensual or not," the prosecution added.

[caprea]

It does not demonstrate one way or the other on consensuality.

It also is the most amount of physical damage you would expect to see from a non violent rape.

A lot of focus here on the first fact, a lot less on the second.

[screenexile]

Where are you getting twitter updates Screen?

It was on Ewan MacKenna's feed. . . please don't judge me!

[Dinny Breen]

Where are you getting twitter updates Screen?

It was on Ewan MacKenna's feed. . . please don't judge me!

Too late 

[square_ball]

Where are you getting twitter updates Screen?

It was on Ewan MacKenna's feed. . . please don't judge me!

Too late 

Off thread but Ewan is a very very angry man!

[caprea]

Where are you getting twitter updates Screen?

It was on Ewan MacKenna's feed. . . please don't judge me!

Too late 

Off thread but Ewan is a very very angry man!

Fairly spot on and has been for a long time on GAA funding, absolutely nutters on his opinions on Mcgregor. Doesn't seem to care for people who are simply very good at sport.

[Dinny Breen]

Where are you getting twitter updates Screen?

It was on Ewan MacKenna's feed. . . please don't judge me!

Too late 

Off thread but Ewan is a very very angry man!

Fairly spot on and has been for a long time on GAA funding, absolutely nutters on his opinions on Mcgregor. Doesn't seem to care for people who are simply very good at sport.

Let's be frank he's an arsehole. But being arsehole doesn't make him wrong.