Author Topic: Ulsters perspective on coaching  (Read 2239 times)

yellowcard

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2018, 05:52:02 PM »
Donegal under McGuinness were great to watch in 2012 and at times in 2014, once he’d perfected the system and before it was widely adopted and countered, rendering it much less effective. Thankfully, given its obsolescence, we’re “retooling” under Bonner and following the likes of Dublin and Mayo with the intensive high press. It will likely leave us open to a hammering or two this summer as the team learns it (but hopefully still an Ulster title), but at least we are fun to watch again after the dire last two seasons under Rory.

However, there was an interview recently with Bonner where he was lamenting the permeation of the blanket through most of the clubs in Donegal, including underage. So we are not out of the woods yet.

Time does tend to dull the memory somewhat! The words 'McGuinness' and 'great to watch' should never accompany each other in the same sentence. A great manager yes, but definitely not great to watch.

Therealdonald

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2018, 05:55:09 PM »
Donegal under McGuinness were great to watch in 2012 and at times in 2014, once he’d perfected the system and before it was widely adopted and countered, rendering it much less effective. Thankfully, given its obsolescence, we’re “retooling” under Bonner and following the likes of Dublin and Mayo with the intensive high press. It will likely leave us open to a hammering or two this summer as the team learns it (but hopefully still an Ulster title), but at least we are fun to watch again after the dire last two seasons under Rory.

However, there was an interview recently with Bonner where he was lamenting the permeation of the blanket through most of the clubs in Donegal, including underage. So we are not out of the woods yet.

Time does tend to dull the memory somewhat! The words 'McGuinness' and 'great to watch' should never accompany each other in the same sentence. A great manager yes, but definitely not great to watch.

Ah now yellow card, that semi-final against Dublin was great for the eyes, the only problem is the monster that it created after.

J70

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2018, 05:57:35 PM »
Donegal under McGuinness were great to watch in 2012 and at times in 2014, once he’d perfected the system and before it was widely adopted and countered, rendering it much less effective. Thankfully, given its obsolescence, we’re “retooling” under Bonner and following the likes of Dublin and Mayo with the intensive high press. It will likely leave us open to a hammering or two this summer as the team learns it (but hopefully still an Ulster title), but at least we are fun to watch again after the dire last two seasons under Rory.

However, there was an interview recently with Bonner where he was lamenting the permeation of the blanket through most of the clubs in Donegal, including underage. So we are not out of the woods yet.

Time does tend to dull the memory somewhat! The words 'McGuinness' and 'great to watch' should never accompany each other in the same sentence. A great manager yes, but definitely not great to watch.

I suggest you go back and watch games such as the two semis in those years. Fantastic games. The Derry and Down games in 2012 featured lots of superb attacking and scores, albeit against poorer opposition. Even patches of the Kerry and Mayo games that year.

yellowcard

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2018, 06:10:44 PM »
Donegal under McGuinness were great to watch in 2012 and at times in 2014, once he’d perfected the system and before it was widely adopted and countered, rendering it much less effective. Thankfully, given its obsolescence, we’re “retooling” under Bonner and following the likes of Dublin and Mayo with the intensive high press. It will likely leave us open to a hammering or two this summer as the team learns it (but hopefully still an Ulster title), but at least we are fun to watch again after the dire last two seasons under Rory.

However, there was an interview recently with Bonner where he was lamenting the permeation of the blanket through most of the clubs in Donegal, including underage. So we are not out of the woods yet.

Time does tend to dull the memory somewhat! The words 'McGuinness' and 'great to watch' should never accompany each other in the same sentence. A great manager yes, but definitely not great to watch.

I suggest you go back and watch games such as the two semis in those years. Fantastic games. The Derry and Down games in 2012 featured lots of superb attacking and scores, albeit against poorer opposition. Even patches of the Kerry and Mayo games that year.

Back in 2012 we were still in the infancy of catenaccio ultra defence. Cork played a traditional brand of football that would be described now as naive. Donegal could look free flowing at times when the opposition didn't mirror their tactics and gifted them space in behind. I still wouldn't call it great to watch but they could rack up plenty of scores by turning over ball in the opponents attacking half and bursting through at pace. It was still mostly played through the hands however.

Dublin in 2014 was an entertaining game because Dublin tried playing total football that year but got suckered by leaving holes everywhere in defence. It became a spectacle for many because of that and because of the shock factor and anti Dubs sentiment, not because of Donegal's tactics. Dublin would never make the same mistake again andhave since completed 3 in a row with a much more pragmatic style even if it does have a good defence-attack balance. I can understand Donegal supporters being nostalgic but there was nothing pretty about their style.

BennyHarp

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2018, 06:23:12 PM »
The tactical blueprint for this ultra defensive low risk football began with Jimmy McGuinness and there have been subtle variations of this style of play ever since by clubs and counties all over the land, not just Ulster. At least McGuinness was a visionary with his own ideas and convictions even if it was often putrid stuff to watch.

There are far too many 'super coaches' with big egos who over estimate their own influence. Low risk safe possession based football will often prevent you from getting embarrassed against better opposition but ultimately it is players who will decide who wins matches.   

What’s wrong with this?

It's horrible to watch, I thought that much was obvious. If I want to watch slow lateral build up play I'll watch the rugby super league but it's not a spectacle I enjoy.

It's based on the fear of making a mistake when in possession and a 'don't give the ball away at all costs' mentality for fear of what might happen when the possession is turned over. It leads to players overplaying laterally and backwards just for the sake of keeping the ball, with absolutely no purpose or attacking intent.

The worst excesses of it lead to little or no kicking until inside the scoring zone and any player who kicks it away needlessly will be hauled in front of the video analysis committee the following Tuesday to be reprimanded by management. The game is ruled by stats and over analysis, just look at the GAA section of a newspaper after a match and witness the countless stats about no of possessions, no of attacks etc etc as an example of how rigid the game has become. It has become a whole industry in itself though and players do concern themselves with stats and ratings when analysing performance. All of this stuff is mind numbingly boring however and often creates robotic pre programmed players unable to think on their feet.

Whilst I agree there are a fair amount of bullshit merchants making a killing on blagging a defensive systems in club football, in intercounty football were resources are so unevenly spread amongst the counties then it’s utter nonsense to suggest that the team with less resources at its disposal shouldn’t avail of tactics to give them the best chance of being competitive. You seriously can’t prefer to watch Kerry beat Clare by 30 odd points rather than Fermanagh utilising their gameplan to turn over Monaghan? If Fermanagh went toe to toe with Donegal in the Ulster final then they’d get done over by 20 points. They just don’t have the resources to man mark McBreaty and Murphy or the fire power to out score them. So what would be your plan then to make them competitive if they don’t go defensive, try to keep the game close and grab enough scores in a low scoring game to sneak it? I for one will find that much more intriguing than a 30 point wash out.
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inthrough

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2018, 06:47:34 PM »
Donegal under McGuinness were great to watch in 2012 and at times in 2014, once he’d perfected the system and before it was widely adopted and countered, rendering it much less effective. Thankfully, given its obsolescence, we’re “retooling” under Bonner and following the likes of Dublin and Mayo with the intensive high press. It will likely leave us open to a hammering or two this summer as the team learns it (but hopefully still an Ulster title), but at least we are fun to watch again after the dire last two seasons under Rory.

However, there was an interview recently with Bonner where he was lamenting the permeation of the blanket through most of the clubs in Donegal, including underage. So we are not out of the woods yet.

Time does tend to dull the memory somewhat! The words 'McGuinness' and 'great to watch' should never accompany each other in the same sentence. A great manager yes, but definitely not great to watch.

I suggest you go back and watch games such as the two semis in those years. Fantastic games. The Derry and Down games in 2012 featured lots of superb attacking and scores, albeit against poorer opposition. Even patches of the Kerry and Mayo games that year.

Back in 2012 we were still in the infancy of catenaccio ultra defence. Cork played a traditional brand of football that would be described now as naive. Donegal could look free flowing at times when the opposition didn't mirror their tactics and gifted them space in behind. I still wouldn't call it great to watch but they could rack up plenty of scores by turning over ball in the opponents attacking half and bursting through at pace. It was still mostly played through the hands however.

Dublin in 2014 was an entertaining game because Dublin tried playing total football that year but got suckered by leaving holes everywhere in defence. It became a spectacle for many because of that and because of the shock factor and anti Dubs sentiment, not because of Donegal's tactics. Dublin would never make the same mistake again andhave since completed 3 in a row with a much more pragmatic style even if it does have a good defence-attack balance. I can understand Donegal supporters being nostalgic but there was nothing pretty about their style.
What in the name of good Jesus is "catenaccio ultra defence"?
As for Dublin playing "total" football that is just nonsense.  As you say yourself they left holes "everywhere in defence" & were torn to pieces as a result. It is to Jim Gavin's eternal credit that he learned frm the experience & Dublin are now playing a brand of football that might more aptly be termed total.
As for being "pretty" that is a strange word to use to describe any GAA team & certainly any team that had Neil Gallagher, Michael Murphy & Paul Durcan in it could never be regarded as pretty.

J70

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2018, 06:55:48 PM »
Donegal under McGuinness were great to watch in 2012 and at times in 2014, once he’d perfected the system and before it was widely adopted and countered, rendering it much less effective. Thankfully, given its obsolescence, we’re “retooling” under Bonner and following the likes of Dublin and Mayo with the intensive high press. It will likely leave us open to a hammering or two this summer as the team learns it (but hopefully still an Ulster title), but at least we are fun to watch again after the dire last two seasons under Rory.

However, there was an interview recently with Bonner where he was lamenting the permeation of the blanket through most of the clubs in Donegal, including underage. So we are not out of the woods yet.

Time does tend to dull the memory somewhat! The words 'McGuinness' and 'great to watch' should never accompany each other in the same sentence. A great manager yes, but definitely not great to watch.

I suggest you go back and watch games such as the two semis in those years. Fantastic games. The Derry and Down games in 2012 featured lots of superb attacking and scores, albeit against poorer opposition. Even patches of the Kerry and Mayo games that year.

Back in 2012 we were still in the infancy of catenaccio ultra defence. Cork played a traditional brand of football that would be described now as naive. Donegal could look free flowing at times when the opposition didn't mirror their tactics and gifted them space in behind. I still wouldn't call it great to watch but they could rack up plenty of scores by turning over ball in the opponents attacking half and bursting through at pace. It was still mostly played through the hands however.

Dublin in 2014 was an entertaining game because Dublin tried playing total football that year but got suckered by leaving holes everywhere in defence. It became a spectacle for many because of that and because of the shock factor and anti Dubs sentiment, not because of Donegal's tactics. Dublin would never make the same mistake again andhave since completed 3 in a row with a much more pragmatic style even if it does have a good defence-attack balance. I can understand Donegal supporters being nostalgic but there was nothing pretty about their style.

I said in my original comment that other teams hadn’t copped on how to counter it at that point. THAT fact doesn’t mean the entertainment value was diminished or that in retrospect it has been invalidated in terms of being entertaining. Each to his own I guess, but I don’t see how that fast-breaking, quick breaking through-the-hands style wasn’t entertaining when it worked. I certainly don’t see how you can claim that Donegal’s tactics didn’t contribute to the “spectacle” in that 2014 semi when it was their tactics that were designed to and directly enabled them to exploit  Dublin’s set-up (read Rory Kavanagh’s autobiography for the details, but basically McGuinness identified that Dublin left huge gaps all year, but opponents were not able to take advantage due to panicking and hitting early, speculative balls once they hit that open space - for two weeks he had Donegal players running repeatedly in training into open space past midfield until they learned how to carry the ball, draw the defender, then pass across to the free man).

But yeah, again, as more teams tried the blanket set up,  fast breaks became less effective or even possible, resulting in dour stalemates with teams passing back and forth across the midfield, but I’m not arguing that. If you personally don’t fast breaks with swift hand passing entertaining, fine, but that doesn’t make it so. And football doesn’t have to be “pretty” to be entertaining.

blewuporstuffed

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2018, 09:15:01 PM »
What rules were changed?
Do you think that game is refereed now in the same way as it was in the 90s or even 00s?
Its the application of the rules that have changed more so than the rules themselves.
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Rossfan

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 09:26:40 PM »
So your blaming "constant rule changes"  isn't right.

Maybe defenders were better coached or taught how to tackle back in the old days?
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Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 09:31:21 PM »
The tactical blueprint for this ultra defensive low risk football began with Jimmy McGuinness and there have been subtle variations of this style of play ever since by clubs and counties all over the land, not just Ulster. At least McGuinness was a visionary with his own ideas and convictions even if it was often putrid stuff to watch.

There are far too many 'super coaches' with big egos who over estimate their own influence. Low risk safe possession based football will often prevent you from getting embarrassed against better opposition but ultimately it is players who will decide who wins matches.   

What’s wrong with this?

It's horrible to watch, I thought that much was obvious. If I want to watch slow lateral build up play I'll watch the rugby super league but it's not a spectacle I enjoy.

It's based on the fear of making a mistake when in possession and a 'don't give the ball away at all costs' mentality for fear of what might happen when the possession is turned over. It leads to players overplaying laterally and backwards just for the sake of keeping the ball, with absolutely no purpose or attacking intent.

The worst excesses of it lead to little or no kicking until inside the scoring zone and any player who kicks it away needlessly will be hauled in front of the video analysis committee the following Tuesday to be reprimanded by management. The game is ruled by stats and over analysis, just look at the GAA section of a newspaper after a match and witness the countless stats about no of possessions, no of attacks etc etc as an example of how rigid the game has become. It has become a whole industry in itself though and players do concern themselves with stats and ratings when analysing performance. All of this stuff is mind numbingly boring however and often creates robotic pre programmed players unable to think on their feet.

Whilst I agree there are a fair amount of bullshit merchants making a killing on blagging a defensive systems in club football, in intercounty football were resources are so unevenly spread amongst the counties then it’s utter nonsense to suggest that the team with less resources at its disposal shouldn’t avail of tactics to give them the best chance of being competitive. You seriously can’t prefer to watch Kerry beat Clare by 30 odd points rather than Fermanagh utilising their gameplan to turn over Monaghan? If Fermanagh went toe to toe with Donegal in the Ulster final then they’d get done over by 20 points. They just don’t have the resources to man mark McBreaty and Murphy or the fire power to out score them. So what would be your plan then to make them competitive if they don’t go defensive, try to keep the game close and grab enough scores in a low scoring game to sneak it? I for one will find that much more intriguing than a 30 point wash out.
this. Carlow are getting it tight for their style. But it got them to a Leinster semi, which is a significant aachievement for them. To me the 6 county sides haven't progressed the tactics and kicked on, and with the players they have, they should. Donegal did, a bit, but the big boys figured it out.

I think the blanket is a spent tactic and we will see a change in the medium term away from it.

Rudi

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2018, 10:06:43 PM »
Donegal under McGuinness were great to watch in 2012 and at times in 2014, once he’d perfected the system and before it was widely adopted and countered, rendering it much less effective. Thankfully, given its obsolescence, we’re “retooling” under Bonner and following the likes of Dublin and Mayo with the intensive high press. It will likely leave us open to a hammering or two this summer as the team learns it (but hopefully still an Ulster title), but at least we are fun to watch again after the dire last two seasons under Rory.

However, there was an interview recently with Bonner where he was lamenting the permeation of the blanket through most of the clubs in Donegal, including underage. So we are not out of the woods yet.

I agree, Donegal played magnificent football in 2012. Games against Kerry Cork and Mayo were a particular joy. If you get the name as an early riser you can sleep till bedtime. They played awful stuff the previous year particularly against Dublin and then got the bad name.  They still have it under Bonner despite playing a lovely brand of attacking football. Its lazy hacks giving them a bad name.

JoG2

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2018, 10:08:24 PM »
The tactical blueprint for this ultra defensive low risk football began with Jimmy McGuinness and there have been subtle variations of this style of play ever since by clubs and counties all over the land, not just Ulster. At least McGuinness was a visionary with his own ideas and convictions even if it was often putrid stuff to watch.

There are far too many 'super coaches' with big egos who over estimate their own influence. Low risk safe possession based football will often prevent you from getting embarrassed against better opposition but ultimately it is players who will decide who wins matches.   

What’s wrong with this?

It's horrible to watch, I thought that much was obvious. If I want to watch slow lateral build up play I'll watch the rugby super league but it's not a spectacle I enjoy.

It's based on the fear of making a mistake when in possession and a 'don't give the ball away at all costs' mentality for fear of what might happen when the possession is turned over. It leads to players overplaying laterally and backwards just for the sake of keeping the ball, with absolutely no purpose or attacking intent.

The worst excesses of it lead to little or no kicking until inside the scoring zone and any player who kicks it away needlessly will be hauled in front of the video analysis committee the following Tuesday to be reprimanded by management. The game is ruled by stats and over analysis, just look at the GAA section of a newspaper after a match and witness the countless stats about no of possessions, no of attacks etc etc as an example of how rigid the game has become. It has become a whole industry in itself though and players do concern themselves with stats and ratings when analysing performance. All of this stuff is mind numbingly boring however and often creates robotic pre programmed players unable to think on their feet.

Whilst I agree there are a fair amount of bullshit merchants making a killing on blagging a defensive systems in club football, in intercounty football were resources are so unevenly spread amongst the counties then it’s utter nonsense to suggest that the team with less resources at its disposal shouldn’t avail of tactics to give them the best chance of being competitive. You seriously can’t prefer to watch Kerry beat Clare by 30 odd points rather than Fermanagh utilising their gameplan to turn over Monaghan? If Fermanagh went toe to toe with Donegal in the Ulster final then they’d get done over by 20 points. They just don’t have the resources to man mark McBreaty and Murphy or the fire power to out score them. So what would be your plan then to make them competitive if they don’t go defensive, try to keep the game close and grab enough scores in a low scoring game to sneak it? I for one will find that much more intriguing than a 30 point wash out.
this. Carlow are getting it tight for their style. But it got them to a Leinster semi, which is a significant aachievement for them. To me the 6 county sides haven't progressed the tactics and kicked on, and with the players they have, they should. Donegal did, a bit, but the big boys figured it out.

I think the blanket is a spent tactic and we will see a change in the medium term away from it.

Jesus wept, 2nd time in a day.. So are you freestaters gonna run with the 6 counties now instead of Ulster?!

Jayop

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2018, 10:11:57 PM »

Jesus wept, 2nd time in a day.. So are you freestaters gonna run with the 6 counties now instead of Ulster?!

Thank God someone said it. Awful comments.

Baile Brigín 2

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2018, 10:20:04 PM »
The tactical blueprint for this ultra defensive low risk football began with Jimmy McGuinness and there have been subtle variations of this style of play ever since by clubs and counties all over the land, not just Ulster. At least McGuinness was a visionary with his own ideas and convictions even if it was often putrid stuff to watch.

There are far too many 'super coaches' with big egos who over estimate their own influence. Low risk safe possession based football will often prevent you from getting embarrassed against better opposition but ultimately it is players who will decide who wins matches.   

What’s wrong with this?

It's horrible to watch, I thought that much was obvious. If I want to watch slow lateral build up play I'll watch the rugby super league but it's not a spectacle I enjoy.

It's based on the fear of making a mistake when in possession and a 'don't give the ball away at all costs' mentality for fear of what might happen when the possession is turned over. It leads to players overplaying laterally and backwards just for the sake of keeping the ball, with absolutely no purpose or attacking intent.

The worst excesses of it lead to little or no kicking until inside the scoring zone and any player who kicks it away needlessly will be hauled in front of the video analysis committee the following Tuesday to be reprimanded by management. The game is ruled by stats and over analysis, just look at the GAA section of a newspaper after a match and witness the countless stats about no of possessions, no of attacks etc etc as an example of how rigid the game has become. It has become a whole industry in itself though and players do concern themselves with stats and ratings when analysing performance. All of this stuff is mind numbingly boring however and often creates robotic pre programmed players unable to think on their feet.

Whilst I agree there are a fair amount of bullshit merchants making a killing on blagging a defensive systems in club football, in intercounty football were resources are so unevenly spread amongst the counties then it’s utter nonsense to suggest that the team with less resources at its disposal shouldn’t avail of tactics to give them the best chance of being competitive. You seriously can’t prefer to watch Kerry beat Clare by 30 odd points rather than Fermanagh utilising their gameplan to turn over Monaghan? If Fermanagh went toe to toe with Donegal in the Ulster final then they’d get done over by 20 points. They just don’t have the resources to man mark McBreaty and Murphy or the fire power to out score them. So what would be your plan then to make them competitive if they don’t go defensive, try to keep the game close and grab enough scores in a low scoring game to sneak it? I for one will find that much more intriguing than a 30 point wash out.
this. Carlow are getting it tight for their style. But it got them to a Leinster semi, which is a significant aachievement for them. To me the 6 county sides haven't progressed the tactics and kicked on, and with the players they have, they should. Donegal did, a bit, but the big boys figured it out.

I think the blanket is a spent tactic and we will see a change in the medium term away from it.

Jesus wept, 2nd time in a day.. So are you freestaters gonna run with the 6 counties now instead of Ulster?!

Because defensive football and the blanket is a 6 county invention that still dominates. Monaghan and Cavan didn't partake, so you can't state it's an Ulster thing.

I'm not having a pop. Just I expect more from Tyrone and Armagh than I do Carlow. The pioneers of this style should be evolving it, and they aren't. Someone referenced Catanaccio earlier. The Italian lock defence. It has been tweaked and improved for 60 years, and it always allowed  a basis for attacking flair. Donegal tried the 2.0, mixed results.

Jayop

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2018, 10:28:57 PM »
The tactical blueprint for this ultra defensive low risk football began with Jimmy McGuinness and there have been subtle variations of this style of play ever since by clubs and counties all over the land, not just Ulster. At least McGuinness was a visionary with his own ideas and convictions even if it was often putrid stuff to watch.

There are far too many 'super coaches' with big egos who over estimate their own influence. Low risk safe possession based football will often prevent you from getting embarrassed against better opposition but ultimately it is players who will decide who wins matches.   

What’s wrong with this?

It's horrible to watch, I thought that much was obvious. If I want to watch slow lateral build up play I'll watch the rugby super league but it's not a spectacle I enjoy.

It's based on the fear of making a mistake when in possession and a 'don't give the ball away at all costs' mentality for fear of what might happen when the possession is turned over. It leads to players overplaying laterally and backwards just for the sake of keeping the ball, with absolutely no purpose or attacking intent.

The worst excesses of it lead to little or no kicking until inside the scoring zone and any player who kicks it away needlessly will be hauled in front of the video analysis committee the following Tuesday to be reprimanded by management. The game is ruled by stats and over analysis, just look at the GAA section of a newspaper after a match and witness the countless stats about no of possessions, no of attacks etc etc as an example of how rigid the game has become. It has become a whole industry in itself though and players do concern themselves with stats and ratings when analysing performance. All of this stuff is mind numbingly boring however and often creates robotic pre programmed players unable to think on their feet.

Whilst I agree there are a fair amount of bullshit merchants making a killing on blagging a defensive systems in club football, in intercounty football were resources are so unevenly spread amongst the counties then it’s utter nonsense to suggest that the team with less resources at its disposal shouldn’t avail of tactics to give them the best chance of being competitive. You seriously can’t prefer to watch Kerry beat Clare by 30 odd points rather than Fermanagh utilising their gameplan to turn over Monaghan? If Fermanagh went toe to toe with Donegal in the Ulster final then they’d get done over by 20 points. They just don’t have the resources to man mark McBreaty and Murphy or the fire power to out score them. So what would be your plan then to make them competitive if they don’t go defensive, try to keep the game close and grab enough scores in a low scoring game to sneak it? I for one will find that much more intriguing than a 30 point wash out.
this. Carlow are getting it tight for their style. But it got them to a Leinster semi, which is a significant aachievement for them. To me the 6 county sides haven't progressed the tactics and kicked on, and with the players they have, they should. Donegal did, a bit, but the big boys figured it out.

I think the blanket is a spent tactic and we will see a change in the medium term away from it.

Jesus wept, 2nd time in a day.. So are you freestaters gonna run with the 6 counties now instead of Ulster?!

Because defensive football and the blanket is a 6 county invention that still dominates. Monaghan and Cavan didn't partake, so you can't state it's an Ulster thing.

I'm not having a pop. Just I expect more from Tyrone and Armagh than I do Carlow. The pioneers of this style should be evolving it, and they aren't. Someone referenced Catanaccio earlier. The Italian lock defence. It has been tweaked and improved for 60 years, and it always allowed  a basis for attacking flair. Donegal tried the 2.0, mixed results.

What utter nonsense. Donegal took defensive football to the highest plane it's ever been seen from a top level team. Cavan were ultra defensive before Mattie took over and Monaghan are equally as defensive as Tyrone, they just had a pure class forward inside at all time that Tyrone have been missing.