Author Topic: Ulsters perspective on coaching  (Read 2328 times)

Knock Yer Mucker In

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Ulsters perspective on coaching
« on: June 12, 2018, 12:34:46 PM »
Lads, unfortunately I have to say it, our view and approach to coaching in Ulster is badly infected. Look at our top counties, Monaghan, Donegal (played nothing yet, and like Tyrone last year wrecking up big scores against bad teams, but when they play a good team it will be a slug feast) and Tyrone all based on mass defense, Fermanagh who have had a couple of wins and Antrim, who have not, have tried ultra defense, brutal stuff altogether. Then you have Tally in Galway and Poacher in Carlow coaching this crap and you get the picture I am painting. We have lost the plot. Who is to blame, is it the coaching model being deliver from the Ulster council to all the counties through these work shops. Was it Joe, then Mickey, further polluted by Jim and us sheep all followed. Regardless we are going no where fast. There are no All Irelands at county level and club level in the short term that I can see. At least in Tyrone club football it mostly attacking football with plenty of good foot passing

Rossfan

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 12:45:16 PM »
Ulster supporters are giving their verdict on ye're muck this Summer.
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

Snapchap

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 12:49:07 PM »
The idea that this is limited to Ulster is absolute bullsh1t of the highest order.

Knock Yer Mucker In

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2018, 12:50:14 PM »
Has Galways attendances been effected?


Snapchat it was us who bred this baby tho

tippabu

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2018, 01:00:15 PM »
Nobody wants to play like carlow, fermanagh and Galway did in the first game against mayo but it's effective and gets results. It's the easiest way for a "weaker"or limited ability county to be successful so it's here to stay. I would love to see fermanagh win an Ulster title but it's hard to support them with the style and especially against a Donegal team who have completely transformed their way of play and are trying a much more attack minded approach.

Jinxy

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2018, 01:06:04 PM »
It's not so much Ulster that has a problem, as it is the 6 counties.
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Snapchap

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 01:10:15 PM »
Has Galways attendances been effected?


Snapchat it was us who bred this baby tho

Indeed, but there's nothing worse than commentators from the other provinces bashing ulster for defensive football, while simultaneously turning a blind eye to the fact that every province is predominantly the same. If you copy the style of play, don't live in denial and bitch about the others.

blewuporstuffed

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 01:27:14 PM »
I have said it before, the development of the ultra defensive style of play is a response to the constant rule changes over the last 10-20 years in favour of attacking football.
Its the law of unintended consequences. The more we keep tweaking the rules in favour of the forward, the more teams and managers will try and counter act that by coming up with new defensive strategies.

The rules have change now so that pretty much any incidental contact challenging for a ball/tackling is given as a foul, if a defender commits 2/3 of these during the game he is off.
We long for this utopian idea of football where is all 1 v1 battles (Hurling is often cited as better for this reason) , but reality we have moved the rules so far in favour of the attacker that a 1v1 battle is so unfair that teams bring extra players back to counter act this.
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

vallankumous

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 01:31:49 PM »
The first and most important thing to do is to agree who is to blame. Once this has been agreed the next step is to blame them continuously.

Rossfan

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 04:00:33 PM »
What rules were changed?
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

bennydorano

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 04:19:33 PM »
Donegal have been great to watch since Bonner has come in, so credit where it's due and don't lump them in with the other turgid shite.

yellowcard

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 04:58:07 PM »
The tactical blueprint for this ultra defensive low risk football began with Jimmy McGuinness and there have been subtle variations of this style of play ever since by clubs and counties all over the land, not just Ulster. At least McGuinness was a visionary with his own ideas and convictions even if it was often putrid stuff to watch.

There are far too many 'super coaches' with big egos who over estimate their own influence. Low risk safe possession based football will often prevent you from getting embarrassed against better opposition but ultimately it is players who will decide who wins matches.   

BennyHarp

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2018, 05:33:18 PM »
The tactical blueprint for this ultra defensive low risk football began with Jimmy McGuinness and there have been subtle variations of this style of play ever since by clubs and counties all over the land, not just Ulster. At least McGuinness was a visionary with his own ideas and convictions even if it was often putrid stuff to watch.

There are far too many 'super coaches' with big egos who over estimate their own influence. Low risk safe possession based football will often prevent you from getting embarrassed against better opposition but ultimately it is players who will decide who wins matches.   

What’s wrong with this?
That was never a square ball!!

J70

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2018, 05:40:22 PM »
Donegal under McGuinness were great to watch in 2012 and at times in 2014, once he’d perfected the system and before it was widely adopted and countered, rendering it much less effective. Thankfully, given its obsolescence, we’re “retooling” under Bonner and following the likes of Dublin and Mayo with the intensive high press. It will likely leave us open to a hammering or two this summer as the team learns it (but hopefully still an Ulster title), but at least we are fun to watch again after the dire last two seasons under Rory.

However, there was an interview recently with Bonner where he was lamenting the permeation of the blanket through most of the clubs in Donegal, including underage. So we are not out of the woods yet.

yellowcard

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Re: Ulsters perspective on coaching
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2018, 05:49:15 PM »
The tactical blueprint for this ultra defensive low risk football began with Jimmy McGuinness and there have been subtle variations of this style of play ever since by clubs and counties all over the land, not just Ulster. At least McGuinness was a visionary with his own ideas and convictions even if it was often putrid stuff to watch.

There are far too many 'super coaches' with big egos who over estimate their own influence. Low risk safe possession based football will often prevent you from getting embarrassed against better opposition but ultimately it is players who will decide who wins matches.   

What’s wrong with this?

It's horrible to watch, I thought that much was obvious. If I want to watch slow lateral build up play I'll watch the rugby super league but it's not a spectacle I enjoy.

It's based on the fear of making a mistake when in possession and a 'don't give the ball away at all costs' mentality for fear of what might happen when the possession is turned over. It leads to players overplaying laterally and backwards just for the sake of keeping the ball, with absolutely no purpose or attacking intent.

The worst excesses of it lead to little or no kicking until inside the scoring zone and any player who kicks it away needlessly will be hauled in front of the video analysis committee the following Tuesday to be reprimanded by management. The game is ruled by stats and over analysis, just look at the GAA section of a newspaper after a match and witness the countless stats about no of possessions, no of attacks etc etc as an example of how rigid the game has become. It has become a whole industry in itself though and players do concern themselves with stats and ratings when analysing performance. All of this stuff is mind numbingly boring however and often creates robotic pre programmed players unable to think on their feet.