Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

Started by Joxer, October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM

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five points

Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:21:35 PM

I'm not expecting the project to be deliver on budget, and you know what it probably doesn't matter. If it costs £200m it's still cheap for what it does for Belfast, Antrim, the North and Ulster. Certain projects need to have strict budgets , but not a badly needed sports stadium for the largest sporting organisation in NI.

What would the liquidation of the Ulster Council do for Belfast, Antrim, the North and Ulster?

trailer

Quote from: five points on February 18, 2020, 04:24:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:21:35 PM

I'm not expecting the project to be deliver on budget, and you know what it probably doesn't matter. If it costs £200m it's still cheap for what it does for Belfast, Antrim, the North and Ulster. Certain projects need to have strict budgets , but not a badly needed sports stadium for the largest sporting organisation in NI.

What would the liquidation of the Ulster Council do for Belfast, Antrim, the North and Ulster?

At certain times I'd imagine it would help!
GAA has plenty of money. Stormont and UK contributing. There's no rational financial argument against the build. The money is there and secured.

rodney trotter

The Provincial Championship won't be a big thing anymore in a few years. The Championship structure will likely be changed, and maybe the Provincial championship will be played earlier in the year, or not at all.  It might be popular in Ulster but in Leinster and Munster, not so much. Dublin have killed the appeal in Leinster.

The League is best format. They'll probaly play a League style championship in a few years.

Evil Genius

Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
Casement is needed. It must be built. Whatever the cost and whatever the attendance levels. The GAA in Ulster deserve a decent stadium to future proof their games.
Qn: Were the £62m not available from the Government, would anyone in the GAA be saying: "We need a 40k seater, £77m stadium in Belfast. Now how do we go about building it?"

I think the only answer can be "No".

Of course, the £62m is available, but now that the cost has spiralled beyond £100m (with more to come?), is the GAA comfortable with adding, say, £40m to the government's £62m? (I really can't see Stormont either wanting to go beyond £62m, or being allowed to under the rules).

So why not just save your own £15m, take £47m from the government (or whatever figure they're prepared to allocate on a 100% funded basis), and see what you get for that? If nothing else, such a plan would likely allay residents' concerns into the bargain.

Of course the new stadium might not be able to host very large GAA crowds, but how many of those would Casement realistically get each season. Or is (VAT-free) Clones really unfit to accommodate such games?

And as for huge concerts and conferences etc, maybe a stripped-down plan might not be able to host these but realistically, how much real demand is there for these?
"If you come in here again, you'd better bring guns"
"We don't need guns"
"Yes you fuckin' do"

marty34

Should Casement Park not be a 15, 000 seater stadium....with a roof.

With the weather we're hsving in Ireland, we could arrange double-headers in the league for Sat and Sundays.

BennyCake

Quote from: marty34 on February 19, 2020, 12:15:06 AM
Should Casement Park not be a 15, 000 seater stadium....with a roof.

With the weather we're hsving in Ireland, we could arrange double-headers in the league for Sat and Sundays.

Who would give up home advantage though?
And if teams did, would 15,000 be enough to hold a double header?
Say Tyrone Dublin was one game, there's not much seats left for t'other two counties.

Main Street

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 18, 2020, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
Casement is needed. It must be built. Whatever the cost and whatever the attendance levels. The GAA in Ulster deserve a decent stadium to future proof their games.
Qn: Were the £62m not available from the Government, would anyone in the GAA be saying: "We need a 40k seater, £77m stadium in Belfast. Now how do we go about building it?"

I think the only answer can be "No".

Of course, the £62m is available, but now that the cost has spiralled beyond £100m (with more to come?), is the GAA comfortable with adding, say, £40m to the government's £62m? (I really can't see Stormont either wanting to go beyond £62m, or being allowed to under the rules).

So why not just save your own £15m, take £47m from the government (or whatever figure they're prepared to allocate on a 100% funded basis), and see what you get for that? If nothing else, such a plan would likely allay residents' concerns into the bargain.

Of course the new stadium might not be able to host very large GAA crowds, but how many of those would Casement realistically get each season. Or is (VAT-free) Clones really unfit to accommodate such games?

And as for huge concerts and conferences etc, maybe a stripped-down plan might not be able to host these but realistically, how much real demand is there for these?
There could be a few concerts without stretching the imagination too much, conferences i don't know. Croke Park is advertised often as a location for various  conferences, I don't know how much cash it brings in but I'd hazard a guess that it allows fulltime staff to be hired who do other duties as well.  I'd guess that Belfast as a capital in the north would provide a decent return on conference fees. Primarily, i think  a  fully seated and covered  decent sized stadium would be a boon for the GAA and as a stadium it would garner more than enough usage to justify its cost to the UK taxpayer.
You must realise that without the 3 or 4 internationals per annum, Windsor Park would be mostly empty all year round. The GAA is a different proposition
to  the sport of soccer, it is much more actively supported at a local level than soccer.

OgraAnDun

Quote from: marty34 on February 19, 2020, 12:15:06 AM
Should Casement Park not be a 15, 000 seater stadium....with a roof.

With the weather we're hsving in Ireland, we could arrange double-headers in the league for Sat and Sundays.

20k with a roof if a GAA pitch isn't too big for it. It would be nice to have a pristine pitch in decent weather conditions for McKenna Cup, Ulster club matches etc

thewobbler

Would anyone know the plausibility / logistics of adding 10,000 seats to the Athletic Grounds?

Seems to me that the logical conclusion of this debacle is to create a smaller county ground on a greenfield in Antrim, and upgrade an existing, more central stadium to provincial ground status.

trailer

Quote from: Evil Genius on February 18, 2020, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 03:44:59 PM
Casement is needed. It must be built. Whatever the cost and whatever the attendance levels. The GAA in Ulster deserve a decent stadium to future proof their games.
Qn: Were the £62m not available from the Government, would anyone in the GAA be saying: "We need a 40k seater, £77m stadium in Belfast. Now how do we go about building it?"

I think the only answer can be "No".

Of course, the £62m is available, but now that the cost has spiralled beyond £100m (with more to come?), is the GAA comfortable with adding, say, £40m to the government's £62m? (I really can't see Stormont either wanting to go beyond £62m, or being allowed to under the rules).

So why not just save your own £15m, take £47m from the government (or whatever figure they're prepared to allocate on a 100% funded basis), and see what you get for that? If nothing else, such a plan would likely allay residents' concerns into the bargain.

Of course the new stadium might not be able to host very large GAA crowds, but how many of those would Casement realistically get each season. Or is (VAT-free) Clones really unfit to accommodate such games?

And as for huge concerts and conferences etc, maybe a stripped-down plan might not be able to host these but realistically, how much real demand is there for these?

Why is it ok for Soccer or Rugby? but not GAA which is the largest sport in NI by a long way.
Cost has spiralled due to Civil Service and Government incompetence. They must step in and cover any shortfall. Remember the GAA was happy to share a stadium with Rugby and Soccer. Soccer especially objected. So this isn't a mess of the GAAs making therefore costs are not our problem. Casement gets built, no matter the cost.

As an aside when was the last time a large government infrastructure or building project was delivered on budget?

trailer

Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:04:49 AM
Yeah, that's right. The GAA played no part in the mess we are in. Totally blameless.
::)

People actually believe this....frightening.

Look your views are typical of someone from Dublin where there are wonderful stadiums. You have the best sporting infrastructure in Ireland. Yet you deny this to other Gaels around the country. I can't for the life of me understand why? It goes against everything the GAA stands for. It's so akin to this "I'm alright jack" attitude that is prevalent in today's society.


trailer

Quote from: thewobbler on February 19, 2020, 10:45:11 AM
Would anyone know the plausibility / logistics of adding 10,000 seats to the Athletic Grounds?

Seems to me that the logical conclusion of this debacle is to create a smaller county ground on a greenfield in Antrim, and upgrade an existing, more central stadium to provincial ground status.

In fairness Athletic Grounds is a cracking stadium and a great size for club and county games. The pitch also seems to be the best around.

five points

Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:04:49 AM
Yeah, that's right. The GAA played no part in the mess we are in. Totally blameless.
::)

People actually believe this....frightening.

Look your views are typical of someone from Dublin where there are wonderful stadiums. You have the best sporting infrastructure in Ireland. Yet you deny this to other Gaels around the country. I can't for the life of me understand why? It goes against everything the GAA stands for. It's so akin to this "I'm alright jack" attitude that is prevalent in today's society.

I think this is a bit unfair. It wasn't the council, the unionists or the tories who decided to remove the stadium fittings and let the pitch go to seed.

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

trailer

Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
Quote from: five points on February 19, 2020, 11:25:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on February 19, 2020, 11:04:49 AM
Yeah, that's right. The GAA played no part in the mess we are in. Totally blameless.
::)

People actually believe this....frightening.

Look your views are typical of someone from Dublin where there are wonderful stadiums. You have the best sporting infrastructure in Ireland. Yet you deny this to other Gaels around the country. I can't for the life of me understand why? It goes against everything the GAA stands for. It's so akin to this "I'm alright jack" attitude that is prevalent in today's society.

I think this is a bit unfair. It wasn't the council, the unionists or the tories who decided to remove the stadium fittings and let the pitch go to seed.
Not only that but the GAA still haven't had a plan passed, after a number of attempts (I can't remember how many now, 3 maybe). They have to shoulder the blame on that.

Why hasn't an architect no doubt experienced at such planning applications been unable to get it approved.....