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Well it's not going to be unanimous that's for sure.

And to be a majority it has to be 10 out of 11 so I'm not sure if they'll get that.

I'm sure you're right, but an interesting definition of majority...do you have the legal definition?

Not sure they will get 10 either but after reading the lads evidence (or tweets about their evidence) and that article above - I assume they were taken from somewhere and not just invented by the Mirror - leaning ever more towards guilty.

Was very much on the fence with this trial before the lads testimony. It looked like a case of he said she said but their stories just don't add up. Also while I had been reading the newspaper reports I'll admit I hadn't been following religiously. But just read this today for the first time which is a transcript of texts between the girl and her mate the morning after. It's from the mirror and a month old. I also cannot find the transcript being carried anywhere else by another news site but it's very disturbing reading and ties in with a lot of the other evidence and texts and has certainly got me leaning towards believing the girl.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/rugby-union/rugby-rape-trial-paddy-jackson-12027425

Christ hadn't seen that either.

Must say when I heard Jackson say something about the girl running her nails down his arm downstairs, it sounded a hell of a lot like he had marks on him that could well have come from her trying to fight him off, and that he was trying to explain away. I didn't see these mentioned anywhere or prosecution follow up on this, but maybe just missed it.

England embarrassed . If Ireland beat them next week that would be three in a row for England, pressure on Eddie to quit?

He has a big mouth and it looks like the Nigels were overtrained

Bad run if they are but do them no harm to get their egoes bruised 18months out. Don't think there are any standout coaches around waiting to step into the wings.

Very hard if not impossible to believe he got text saying it wasn't consensual and didn't mention it.

At same time hard to fathom them meeting up to get their stories straight about a gang rape in a public place as opposed to someone's house.

3 times this year already! Are manual 4 wheel drives an option? She who must be obeyed just informed me she doesn't want an automatic.

Think when people say that, is because never driven an automatic!

@RosannaCooney
Prosecution: "You didn't see the complainant looking at Mr Olding downstairs...fixated on him or brushing against him...and yet as soon as he comes in the room, she moves her affection to him, kissing him and begins to perform oral sex on him" Jackson: "Yes".


Most plausible from.such a respectable gentleman

I haven't made mind up but I think you are naive if you totally discount the possibility

I think you're pretty naive not to almost completely discount the possibility given what we already know.

Maybe, but I KNOW you're a fuckwit based on the fact that you KNOW sweet f**k all, as do the rest of us following the trial on twitter...you'd do well to look up Socrates.

No need to thank me.

@RosannaCooney
Prosecution: "You didn't see the complainant looking at Mr Olding downstairs...fixated on him or brushing against him...and yet as soon as he comes in the room, she moves her affection to him, kissing him and begins to perform oral sex on him" Jackson: "Yes".


Most plausible from.such a respectable gentleman

I haven't made mind up but I think you are naive if you totally discount the possibility

the finish was hard to watch - at that point both of them were exhausted, there was a lot of inside of the glove and swinging of bats....they weren't boxing at that point.... I think Joshua walks through him...

Good to see Brook back in the ring - he looked as sharp as ever and a nice clinical finish

Joshua looked banjaxed and almost gone against Klitschko. You could be right but both seem to carry their power through the later rounds, even when they look wiped so could go either way.

Joshua has a fight beforehand in any case. He should win, but I just don't think he is as good as the Brits would love him to be.

Syferus, sensitive subject but genuine question here.

Is there someone close to you who has been raped or sexually abused? I don't know what the hell happened that night, and my only sources for what went on are this board and Frank Greaney, but as I said earlier am leaning towards number three being the turning point. If that was the case it would make the guys innocent and not only, "not guilty".

On the limited info (second hand), it seems very difficult to me to reach a decision beyond reasonable doubt. Hence curiosity as to how you can  come down so clearly on one side.

The other thought nagging at me is what possible motive would the girl have for going this far if she didn't genuinely believe she was raped. It's a very courageous thing to do.

Bar the perhaps obvious and perhaps excusable mis-statements, they could all be telling the truth, or their own biased version of it.

This is all pure speculation as to a potential version of events that could have happened where they would all be telling the "truth":

She got herself into a uncomfortable situation, didnt want to it go nearly as far as it went, but didnt know how to get out of it, so felt like she had no choice but to give in and go along with it. Then when no3 guy comes in, she gets her mojo back and decides enough's enough and leaves - perhaps when she realised someone else had seen her it helped straighten her thoughts.

Then almost immediately she gets really angry with the lads, her honest belief is it wasn't consensual, I didnt really want to take part in a 3some, she feels used, feels taken advantage of, feels raped. She tells her mates, and they suggest she has to go to the police.

But from Jackson's point of view, perhaps he thought here's girl a who fancies me.  She came to his house, she's not drinking, she's not with the 3 other girls, she's goes to his room and they start kissing. Hands start to wander, and she says Enough. She walks out. Paddy thinks, Dammit, I thought I was in. Girl comes back, Paddy thinks this is good. He starts again, thinking all he has to do is push the right button and she'll change her mind. He gets her into a compromising situation, she's not resisting. He's not holding her down, he's not preventing her from moving. She's not shouting Stop. He asks her to take off her top, she complies. So from his point of view, he doesn't think he's done a thing wrong.   

Olding comes in. Sees whats going on and decides to chance he arm. He lays down beside her, gets a blowie and thinks this is a great way to end a night. And then he's utterly astonished when police come knocking.

This is what I have thought is a very plausible  situation  for a while. 3rd guy is the tipping point at which she thinks has been used and then thinks has been raped

Not following this in the papers or on twitter, only here...

Did the texts the next day not refer to "spit- roasting"? Had never come across term beforehand but quick Google seemed to confirm what I presumed it meant in this context. Doesn't seem consistent with solely digital penetration.

What's the board view of laphrioag? Peaty as f**k but fun all the same.

Love the peaty stuff. Laphroaig is good, but I find Ardbeg even peatier, so that's my fav.

Both nice. Working my way through anCnoc - quare taste.

Laphroaig is good. Bought an Ardbeg Uigeadal or something similar years ago. Would blow the head off you. Not gone back to it.

Lagavullin 16. Now that is a good whiskey.

Think it was the Gibraltar Killings. As Puck says, lot of early memories of faces of people who were murdered on the television

The organisers themselves say it was a million. Haven't a clue what the figure would be but streets were choc a bloc from the photos.

Benny where did you read about the right-wingers bussed in? Genuinely curious, not seen anything on the news over here, but there seems to be a perception that independence movement is result of right-wing oppression. Most of Spain and majority of Cataluna are against independence, and that goes across the political spectrum

I've seen a lot of shite on FB, Twitter etc portraying this as some sort of left wing popular uprising.  If you read into, this it's more of a right wing popular uprising with two sets of conservatives fighting each other.

Corrupt on both sides as well. The corruption line is often thrown out about the PP but CiU seem to have been as bad if not worse. The founding father of modern political Catalan nationalism somehow "inherited" hundreds of millions let's not forget and I have no doubt those leading the secession will line their pockets handsomely.