The Many Faces of US Politics...

[sid waddell]

You were saying?

Nothing in your link, which refers to a meeting on July 17th, contradicts the fact.

Truman had already made the decision to drop the bombs before he arrived in Europe on July 15th to meet with Churchill and Stalin and before the bomb was even tested for the first time on July 16th.

He made this decision without any input from the British.

[Milltown Row2]

Nope you're wrong sid says he's got all the facts!

The Americans Brits and the rest have raped the world but to actually pick out one as being the worst is stupid, as said I'd struggle to put the USA (on their own) as being close to the some of atrocious acts carried out throughout history, though they are making up for lost time..



Did you say he knew nothing about it or had any hand in it?  They knew and were complicit in it... but sure as long as it fits your view then carry on

[Milltown Row2]

Moreover, we should not need the Russians. The end of the Japanese war no longer depended upon the pouring in of their armies for the final and perhaps protracted slaughter. We had no need to ask favours of them.... We seemed suddenly to have become possessed of a merciful abridgment of the slaughter in the East and a far happier prospect in Europe.... At any rate, there never was a moment's discussion as to whether the atomic bomb should be used or not....

The final decision now lay in the main with President Truman, who had the weapon; but I never doubted what it would be, nor have I ever doubted since that he was right. The historic fact remains, and must be judged in the after-time, that the decision whether or not to use the atomic bomb to compel the surrender of Japan was never even an issue. There was unanimous, automatic, unquestioned agreement around our table; nor did I ever hear the slightest suggestion that we should do otherwise.

[sid waddell]

Nope you're wrong sid says he's got all the facts!

The Americans Brits and the rest have raped the world but to actually pick out one as being the worst is stupid, as said I'd struggle to put the USA (on their own) as being close to the some of atrocious acts carried out throughout history, though they are making up for lost time..



Did you say he knew nothing about it or had any hand in it?  They knew and were complicit in it... but sure as long as it fits your view then carry on

What part of the bit about Truman having already made the decision to drop the bombs before telling Churchill do you not understand?

[Milltown Row2]

This was a joint decision that they all decided was the right thing at the time, in the main, the decision as churchill said was Trumans.. but as Churchill said no one would have decided against it..

It was an allied war.. you get that? They were all in agreement.. it ended a savage war, rightly or wrongly it stopped at least another million or so deaths.

Why are you not accepting there are far worse atrocities carried out by others? You hate the Americans so much to hide other mass murders?

[Zulu]

MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

[sid waddell]

This was a joint decision that they all decided was the right thing at the time, in the main, the decision as churchill said was Trumans.. but as Churchill said no one would have decided against it..

It was an allied war.. you get that? They were all in agreement.. it ended a savage war, rightly or wrongly it stopped at least another million or so deaths.

Why are you not accepting there are far worse atrocities carried out by others? You hate the Americans so much to hide other mass murders?

As you now admit, the decision was Truman's. Thanks.

And it was going ahead regardless of what anybody else said.

I'm really not sure where you're going with the last bit of your post.

[Milltown Row2]

MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

[stew]

Trump is quite clearly more dangerous than Kim Jong Un.

Since World War II the US has a proven record of starting wars, invading countries, launching coups and fomenting unrest around the world.

North Korea, not so much.

Also, only one country has used nuclear weapons.

Some people think Kim Jong Un might be unstable and attack another country, based on precious little evidence.

A lot less evidence than we have that Trump is unstable and will attack another country.

One country that's used it though it was an allied force I believe, plenty have the bomb though so for me any country is capable of using it

You seem to be a bit confused here.

The only country to use nuclear weapons in war is the USA.

Not "an allied force", the USA alone. Twice.

Moreover, we should not need the Russians. The end of the Japanese war no longer depended upon the pouring in of their armies for the final and perhaps protracted slaughter. We had no need to ask favours of them.... We seemed suddenly to have become possessed of a merciful abridgment of the slaughter in the East and a far happier prospect in Europe.... At any rate, there never was a moment's discussion as to whether the atomic bomb should be used or not....

The final decision now lay in the main with President Truman, who had the weapon; but I never doubted what it would be, nor have I ever doubted since that he was right. The historic fact remains, and must be judged in the after-time, that the decision whether or not to use the atomic bomb to compel the surrender of Japan was never even an issue. There was unanimous, automatic, unquestioned agreement around our table; nor did I ever hear the slightest suggestion that we should do otherwise.

And to be even more specific, a liberal president dropped both hammers!

[Arthur_Friend]

MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

You think gassing someone is somehow worse than incinerating them or dying a slow from radiation poisoning?

[Milltown Row2]

MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

You think gassing someone is somehow worse than incinerating them or dying a slow from radiation poisoning?

Where did i say that? I'm talking numbers, 6 million to lets say 200,000 odd (I'm being very generous) that died at the bombings....

I've constantly said that the Americans have carried out serious acts throughout their history, but the war was an allied one, the Great war before that (of which the Americans played a very small part of) was horrendous also... but you'll continue to single out the Yanks, i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!!

[Arthur_Friend]

MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

You think gassing someone is somehow worse than incinerating them or dying a slow from radiation poisoning?

Where did i say that? I'm talking numbers, 6 million to lets say 200,000 odd (I'm being very generous) that died at the bombings....

I've constantly said that the Americans have carried out serious acts throughout their history, but the war was an allied one, the Great war before that (of which the Americans played a very small part of) was horrendous also... but you'll continue to single out the Yanks, i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!!

I'll continue to single out the Yanks as long as I have to listen to their sickening hypocrisy every time I switch on the TV or Radio.

United States, Britain, France, Israel - all good guys who sometimes make 'mistakes'.

Russia, Syria, Iran - the forces of evil.

Complete Bullshit.

" i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!! " - that's just a daft comment.

[Milltown Row2]

MR2 what worse atrocities were there? Surely dropping a nuclear bomb on civilians (mainly elderly, women and children) is about as bad as it gets?

That's not the point here. No one has said it's not a horrific attack... it's the constant boring labling of how bad America is, course they are with the constant shit they do around the world but it's not a new thing or something they have just made up, it's happened for years, centuraries in fact... but I'd say as bad as it gets for that period is gassing 6 million Jews for starters....

Yes bash them as much as you like but you don't have to look to hard to find worse

You think gassing someone is somehow worse than incinerating them or dying a slow from radiation poisoning?

Where did i say that? I'm talking numbers, 6 million to lets say 200,000 odd (I'm being very generous) that died at the bombings....

I've constantly said that the Americans have carried out serious acts throughout their history, but the war was an allied one, the Great war before that (of which the Americans played a very small part of) was horrendous also... but you'll continue to single out the Yanks, i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!!

I'll continue to single out the Yanks as long as I have to listen to their sickening hypocrisy every time I switch on the TV or Radio.

United States, Britain, France, Israel - all good guys who sometimes make 'mistakes'.

Russia, Syria, Iran - the forces of evil.

Complete Bullshit.

" i'd say to the extent that you'd have much prefered the nazis to have won!!! " - that's just a daft comment.

So are you saying these countries have not carried out atrocities in the past? regardless of the media 'fake news' stories you dont have to go far into history to see how these countries have looked after their own.. You dont have to listen or watch the media, just make up your own version and that will be right

[Eamonnca1]

POTUS
• Spoke at a Snap-on Tools factory in Wisconsin to unleash his "Buy American, Hire American" initiative. Highlights:

• Called Speaker of the House Paul Ryan "Ron." Twice.

• Gave a shout-out to Rep. Sean Duffy for being a "world champion climber, climbs the trees" and that "every time I look at him I look at him differently."
You may also remember Sean from "The Real World: Boston".

• Returned the canard that NATO countries are "not paying their bills."
There are no NATO countries that are not paying their bills. Member nations agreed to increase defense spending to 2% of GDP by 2024. (Spoiler alert: It's not currently 2024.)

• Called the World Trade Organization "another one of our failures."

• Claimed that no administration in history had accomplished so much in 90 days.
No major legislation passed, including a collapse of his repeal & replace the ACA pledge; the vast majority of appointments that still need to be made; a stack of executive orders that were more suited to be memos; two travel bans kneecapped; taking credit for business investments announced up to three years prior... But sure, accomplishments. I mean, maybe you're counting hiring two National Security Advisers in the first 90 days? That's certainly historic.

• Raised a record $107 million for his inauguration from corporate & wealthy donors, more than double the previous record set by Obama. Inaugural committees are not required to report how they spend the money and would not say how much was left.

• 45% of Americans believe the president does not keep his promises, according to Gallup. That's a 17-point slide since February. -11 points among Republicans and -9 points among conservatives.

Executive Branch
• The White House Press Office circulated a list of quotes of nice things that the president's Cabinet & senior advisors said about him.
Shadow Advisers

• Despite official protestations that founder of controversial private paramilitary contractor firm Blackwater & brother of Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, Eric Prince, had no role in the transition, several meetings with the transition team have been documented.

Prince would enter Trump Tower by a rear entrance to avoid the media camped out at the elevator bank. He met several times with former National Security Adviser Mike Flynn to discuss appointees. One meeting with Kellyanne Conway and National Security Council member Kevin Harrington on an Acela train from New York City to Washington, D.C.

Tax Reform
• Democrats are pledging not to cooperate on any rewriting of the tax code unless they know specifically how that revision would benefit the billionaire president and his family, i.e. he releases his tax returns.
Family Business

• The same day that daughter Ivanka & presidential son-in-law/senior advisor Jared Kushner sat next to Chinese President Xi and his wife for dinner at Mar-a-Lago, her company won provisional approval from the Chinese government for three new trademarks, giving it monopoly rights to sell Ivanka brand jewelry, bags and spa services in the world's second-largest economy. Ivanka Trump Marks LLC has 32 pending applications in China and applied for at least nine new trademarks in the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Canada and the U.S. after the election.

North Korea
• In statements in Seoul, South Korea, Vice President Mike Pence warned North Korea to "not to test [the president's] resolve or the strength of the armed forces of the United States" and offered the strikes on Syria & Afghanistan as proof.
Low-risk, low-cost actions, one of which was in a country we've been at war in for 16 years, are not "resolve". Seems like pretty low-hanging fruit, honestly, and hardly in the same league as threatening to tear up a 60-year-old armistice, putting tens of millions of South Korean lives on the line, and risking war with China.

• While "a person familiar with the White House's thinking" said that the president prefers to let China take the lead on dealing with North Korea, he is considering "kinetic action" options.

• Last week the White House announced that it had ordered the U.S.S. Carl Vinson's carrier strike group to the Sea of Japan to send a message to the North Koreans. Spicey Meatball & Secretary of Defense James Mattis gave the impression that the fleet was racing at flanks speed to the regional waters. "We're sending an armada," the president said, inflaming fears in South Korea of imminent hostilities.

In actuality the three ships were 3000 miles away, steaming in the opposite direction to rendezvous with Australian naval units. How did we find out? Because the Navy posted a photo of it passing the island of Java, facing the wrong direction.

The Vinson is now proceeding north.

Russia
• Two Russian Tu-95 Bear long-range bombers flew within 100 miles of Kodiak Island off the coast of Alaska, prompting F-22s to scramble from Elmendorf Air Force Base to intercept. The last Russian incursion of U.S. airspace was in July of 2015.
Homeland Security

• Secretary John Kelly said that congressional critics of the department should "shut up" and assume that agents are following the law, or change the laws.

• On April 11, a federal civil rights complaint was filed claiming that, out of 33,126 complaints of sexual and physical abuse in immigration detention, only 570 cases have been DHS's Office of the Inspector General, the agency's oversight office.

Department of Justice
• A month after firing all of the U.S. Attorneys, the department has no new chief prosecutors in place, hampering the crackdown regime that Attorney General & noted racist Jeff Sessions wants to implement.

Executive Orders
• The president is going to make it harder for technology companies to recruit low-wage workers from foreign countries by cracking down on H1-B visas.
Some experts warn that this could increase offshoring efforts by tech companies instead of spurring them to hire American workers.

• The order does not affect H-2A/B visas that companies owned by the family rely heavily on.

• Since the election, NBC tracked 56 shipments of Ivanka Trump products from China & Singapore out of 215 from Asia overall. The president's clothing line was manufactured in China as well.

• Also, all federal agencies will be directed to adhere to "Buy American" rules, giving the highest priority to American companies when making purchasing decisions.

Hm. I'm old enough to remember when it was impossible to create jobs via government spending.

Spicey Meatball
• Had a new argument for why they weren't releasing the White House visitor logs. Before it was saving money & national security. Now he's saying that if members of congress don't have to disclose who they meet with, neither does the White House.

Swamp Thing
• Senior White House budget adviser Marcus Peacock has departed the Office of Management and Budget to join Business Roundtable, a high-profile business lobby group in Washington. He will lead policy work on the group's key issues related to the administration's agenda, including tax legislation, infrastructure spending and regulatory reform.

The president made a very large show of the ethics pledge requiring executive branch employees to refrain from lobbying the office they worked in for five years after leaving government. Peacock was given a waiver and has "promised" to not lobby the OMB for six months.

Immigration Enforcement
• Despite the president's promise to not deport people covered under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, Juan Manuel Montes, 23, was grabbed by Customs & Border Patrol agents on Feb. 17 and found himself back in Mexico three hours later. He has lived in the U.S. since the age of 9.
"They shouldn't be very worried," he told ABC News in January. "I do have a big heart."

There are currently at least 10 other DACA enrollees currently in federal custody.

Media

• Fox is preparing to dump Bill O'Reilly in the wake of the raft of sexual harassment suits that came to light last month.
MOABI (Mother Of All Bad Ideas)

• Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) filed a bill that would allow former presidents & & vice presidents, in coordination with the sitting VP, to determine if a president is fit for office.
The States

• As of this point, John Ossoff has come in first by a wide margin in the special election to fill HHS Secretary Tom Price's seat in the Georgia 6th. But at 48.6%, all that gets him is a runoff against a candidate that the whole of the GOP is behind instead of a severely fragmented field.

• Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker had a hat made up for the president to honor the Milwaukee Bucks' return to the playoffs. Naturally & unimaginatively it says, "Make the Bucks Great Again."

Giannis Antetokounmpo grew up an undocumented immigrant from Nigeria in Greece; Thon Maker is a refugee from Sudan, which is on the travel ban list; and the team refuses to stay at Trump hotels.

Fittingly perhaps, the only Bucks championship came in 1971, which is roughly the time frame the president wishes to return the country to.

This has been Day 89 in Trumpistan. Good night!

[mrdeeds]

POTUS
• Spoke at a Snap-on Tools factory in Wisconsin to unleash his "Buy American, Hire American" initiative. Highlights:

• Called Speaker of the House Paul Ryan "Ron." Twice.

• Gave a shout-out to Rep. Sean Duffy for being a "world champion climber, climbs the trees" and that "every time I look at him I look at him differently."
You may also remember Sean from "The Real World: Boston".

• Returned the canard that NATO countries are "not paying their bills."
There are no NATO countries that are not paying their bills. Member nations agreed to increase defense spending to 2% of GDP by 2024. (Spoiler alert: It's not currently 2024.)

• Called the World Trade Organization "another one of our failures."

• Claimed that no administration in history had accomplished so much in 90 days.
No major legislation passed, including a collapse of his repeal & replace the ACA pledge; the vast majority of appointments that still need to be made; a stack of executive orders that were more suited to be memos; two travel bans kneecapped; taking credit for business investments announced up to three years prior... But sure, accomplishments. I mean, maybe you're counting hiring two National Security Advisers in the first 90 days? That's certainly historic.

• Raised a record $107 million for his inauguration from corporate & wealthy donors, more than double the previous record set by Obama. Inaugural committees are not required to report how they spend the money and would not say how much was left.

• 45% of Americans believe the president does not keep his promises, according to Gallup. That's a 17-point slide since February. -11 points among Republicans and -9 points among conservatives.

Executive Branch
• The White House Press Office circulated a list of quotes of nice things that the president's Cabinet & senior advisors said about him.
Shadow Advisers

• Despite official protestations that founder of controversial private paramilitary contractor firm Blackwater & brother of Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, Eric Prince, had no role in the transition, several meetings with the transition team have been documented.

Prince would enter Trump Tower by a rear entrance to avoid the media camped out at the elevator bank. He met several times with former National Security Adviser Mike Flynn to discuss appointees. One meeting with Kellyanne Conway and National Security Council member Kevin Harrington on an Acela train from New York City to Washington, D.C.

Tax Reform
• Democrats are pledging not to cooperate on any rewriting of the tax code unless they know specifically how that revision would benefit the billionaire president and his family, i.e. he releases his tax returns.
Family Business

• The same day that daughter Ivanka & presidential son-in-law/senior advisor Jared Kushner sat next to Chinese President Xi and his wife for dinner at Mar-a-Lago, her company won provisional approval from the Chinese government for three new trademarks, giving it monopoly rights to sell Ivanka brand jewelry, bags and spa services in the world's second-largest economy. Ivanka Trump Marks LLC has 32 pending applications in China and applied for at least nine new trademarks in the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Canada and the U.S. after the election.

North Korea
• In statements in Seoul, South Korea, Vice President Mike Pence warned North Korea to "not to test [the president's] resolve or the strength of the armed forces of the United States" and offered the strikes on Syria & Afghanistan as proof.
Low-risk, low-cost actions, one of which was in a country we've been at war in for 16 years, are not "resolve". Seems like pretty low-hanging fruit, honestly, and hardly in the same league as threatening to tear up a 60-year-old armistice, putting tens of millions of South Korean lives on the line, and risking war with China.

• While "a person familiar with the White House's thinking" said that the president prefers to let China take the lead on dealing with North Korea, he is considering "kinetic action" options.

• Last week the White House announced that it had ordered the U.S.S. Carl Vinson's carrier strike group to the Sea of Japan to send a message to the North Koreans. Spicey Meatball & Secretary of Defense James Mattis gave the impression that the fleet was racing at flanks speed to the regional waters. "We're sending an armada," the president said, inflaming fears in South Korea of imminent hostilities.

In actuality the three ships were 3000 miles away, steaming in the opposite direction to rendezvous with Australian naval units. How did we find out? Because the Navy posted a photo of it passing the island of Java, facing the wrong direction.

The Vinson is now proceeding north.

Russia
• Two Russian Tu-95 Bear long-range bombers flew within 100 miles of Kodiak Island off the coast of Alaska, prompting F-22s to scramble from Elmendorf Air Force Base to intercept. The last Russian incursion of U.S. airspace was in July of 2015.
Homeland Security

• Secretary John Kelly said that congressional critics of the department should "shut up" and assume that agents are following the law, or change the laws.

• On April 11, a federal civil rights complaint was filed claiming that, out of 33,126 complaints of sexual and physical abuse in immigration detention, only 570 cases have been DHS's Office of the Inspector General, the agency's oversight office.

Department of Justice
• A month after firing all of the U.S. Attorneys, the department has no new chief prosecutors in place, hampering the crackdown regime that Attorney General & noted racist Jeff Sessions wants to implement.

Executive Orders
• The president is going to make it harder for technology companies to recruit low-wage workers from foreign countries by cracking down on H1-B visas.
Some experts warn that this could increase offshoring efforts by tech companies instead of spurring them to hire American workers.

• The order does not affect H-2A/B visas that companies owned by the family rely heavily on.

• Since the election, NBC tracked 56 shipments of Ivanka Trump products from China & Singapore out of 215 from Asia overall. The president's clothing line was manufactured in China as well.

• Also, all federal agencies will be directed to adhere to "Buy American" rules, giving the highest priority to American companies when making purchasing decisions.

Hm. I'm old enough to remember when it was impossible to create jobs via government spending.

Spicey Meatball
• Had a new argument for why they weren't releasing the White House visitor logs. Before it was saving money & national security. Now he's saying that if members of congress don't have to disclose who they meet with, neither does the White House.

Swamp Thing
• Senior White House budget adviser Marcus Peacock has departed the Office of Management and Budget to join Business Roundtable, a high-profile business lobby group in Washington. He will lead policy work on the group's key issues related to the administration's agenda, including tax legislation, infrastructure spending and regulatory reform.

The president made a very large show of the ethics pledge requiring executive branch employees to refrain from lobbying the office they worked in for five years after leaving government. Peacock was given a waiver and has "promised" to not lobby the OMB for six months.

Immigration Enforcement
• Despite the president's promise to not deport people covered under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, Juan Manuel Montes, 23, was grabbed by Customs & Border Patrol agents on Feb. 17 and found himself back in Mexico three hours later. He has lived in the U.S. since the age of 9.
"They shouldn't be very worried," he told ABC News in January. "I do have a big heart."

There are currently at least 10 other DACA enrollees currently in federal custody.

Media

• Fox is preparing to dump Bill O'Reilly in the wake of the raft of sexual harassment suits that came to light last month.
MOABI (Mother Of All Bad Ideas)

• Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) filed a bill that would allow former presidents & & vice presidents, in coordination with the sitting VP, to determine if a president is fit for office.
The States

• As of this point, John Ossoff has come in first by a wide margin in the special election to fill HHS Secretary Tom Price's seat in the Georgia 6th. But at 48.6%, all that gets him is a runoff against a candidate that the whole of the GOP is behind instead of a severely fragmented field.

• Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker had a hat made up for the president to honor the Milwaukee Bucks' return to the playoffs. Naturally & unimaginatively it says, "Make the Bucks Great Again."

Giannis Antetokounmpo grew up an undocumented immigrant from Nigeria in Greece; Thon Maker is a refugee from Sudan, which is on the travel ban list; and the team refuses to stay at Trump hotels.

Fittingly perhaps, the only Bucks championship came in 1971, which is roughly the time frame the president wishes to return the country to.

This has been Day 89 in Trumpistan. Good night!

Love these updates.