Banty - Should I stay or Should I go?

[Main Street]

heard costs might be the issue for bantys reinstatement.

Is it not the case that he is already a major contributor to the county coffers?

Apparently so but maybe it's a case like Galway where they feel that costs need to be reduced given the current climate ?.

Belt tightening in Galway? no wonder Joe resigned.
Never give a notch.

[Schkite]

Interesting statement from the players on the issue:

Monaghan players fully back McEnaney

Monaghan manager Seamus McEnaney with his players after the Ulster SFC semi final win over Fermanagh.
19 August 2010

The full Monaghan senior panel of 2010 convened on Wednesdnay 18th August and wish that the following points be made known:

a.. The players unanimously back Seamus McEnaney to continue as Monaghan team manager.

b.. We were delighted when Seamus indicated that he was willing to continue in the post as team manager. We as a team all know we have made significant progress under the regime of Seamus and his management team and feel we can continue to make progress under the current management team.

c.. As players, we are very unhappy with the way our manager has been treated. We do not understand why the County Board publically backed Seamus McEnaney for another 3 year term and then behind the scenes set up a process to invite nominations. We feel we have one of the best management teams in the country and cannot understand why we would be seeking nominations.

d.. At a meeting of the County Committee the club delegates voted in favour of seeking nominations for the post of Senior Team Manager. Our players meeting revealed that only 2 club delegates out of 15 clubs consulted with their county players prior to the decision the board came to. This raises serious concerns about how delegates who were supposed to be representing their clubs came to their decision without contacting the people within their clubs whom this would affect the most, their county players.

e.. We do not want this issue to escalate as it is not in the best interests of Monaghan football. We want this issue put to bed straight away so we can continue to make progress under this management team.

f.. We have the interests of senior football in the county at heart. We unanimously back Seamus McEnaney to continue as manager of Monaghan Senior County Football Team.
Signed: The Monaghan Senior Football Panel 2010

[AFS]

Have to laugh at the claims of unanimity that always appear in these player statements.

[haranguerer]

I suppose they felt they should do something, and I agree with their view, but it isn't really a welcome development. (d) in particular appears misguided.

[lynchbhoy]

would have thought that monaghan co board would have backed mcenaney. The man has brought the level of football up in the intercounty team and this is a kick in the teeth.

I would say the players are behind him, while I dont know all the ins and outs, it does look like banty has mended personality issues that existed in player circles previously (mostly with former mgt).
If Monaghan can get a better man, fair play to them, but I doubt it.
Well done McEnaney for the trojan work and effort put in over the past number of years, and while I wont have always like you or your teams, I have a massive respect because you and your teams are damn good !

[orangeman]

I suppose they felt they should do something, and I agree with their view, but it isn't really a welcome development. (d) in particular appears misguided.

Just following Cork's lead that's all. No harm in it.

[thewanderer]

totally up banty,s street. he must of promised last years squad a place on this years. when the doors open go out.

[Logan]

From the outside it looks like the Monaghan CB and Monaghan clubs think that Banty has done well with Monaghan and turned it around but they also think Monaghan can do better and go further with a different manager - but the Banty and the players don't think this is the case?

Is that it in summary?




It's a very interesting statement all the same ... when this happens I often wonder in general (not the Monaghan case itself) ...

1. Was this at the instigation of the players only (i.e. was management 'input'/organisation involved)?
2. How many players attended or were invited to the meeting? Were younger players allowed a secret ballot (this was suggested in the Cork dispute)?
3. Is democracy not something that should be encouraged? In other words is the CB not simply doing what is natural and right - putting the manager to a democractic vote? Is that not how Boylan worked for years?
4. Should players be consulted at all in the selection/retention of a manager? I don't know the right way to think on this ... but I often wonder if the players are the right people to have a say - well veto certainly.
5. Does this support or statement extend to the whole backroom team or is it just the manager? Or does that matter? Is it a complete support of everything?
6. Should players not simply play - look at where Cork hurlers are now as an example?

What do people think?

[Logan]

Lynchboy - what do you mean in the bit about 'former Mgt'?

would have thought that monaghan co board would have backed mcenaney. The man has brought the level of football up in the intercounty team and this is a kick in the teeth.

I would say the players are behind him, while I dont know all the ins and outs, it does look like banty has mended personality issues that existed in player circles previously (mostly with former mgt).
If Monaghan can get a better man, fair play to them, but I doubt it.
Well done McEnaney for the trojan work and effort put in over the past number of years, and while I wont have always like you or your teams, I have a massive respect because you and your teams are damn good !

Ur right, you don't know the ins and outs

Maybe you could elaborate then?

[lynchbhoy]

Lynchboy - what do you mean in the bit about 'former Mgt'?

McCarville and the moens is the one I am talking about

[Giveitlong]

Players should concentrate on playing.

I don't mean to sound old fashioned (I still play myself), but a 19 year old or a 22 year old or any age of player has no business taking part in the issuing of statements, dictats or thinly veiled threats. Players should be concentrating on their own development. The clue is in the language. Players play. Adminstrators administer. Delegates are those who a club (the building block of the who damned thing) delegates action to.

A defined system and process put the Banty in place at the outset of his tenure, and who are the players to comment on whether or not this process is appropriate 6 years later? Who is anyone to decide - except the owners? And the owners are those people put in place, in a defined, tried and tested system in the most successful amateur organisation in the world.

If you don't agree with the system, then to borrow some bullet point letters from the players' statement:

a. become a club delegate yourself at your own club AGM and exercise your voice and your opinion (lot's of players do...Dessie Farrell did while still a relatively young player)

or

b. start your own association.

Was Fernando Torres consulted about the appointed before Hodgson was made manager of Liverpool? Absolutely not.
Was Brian O'Driscoll consulted before Declan Kidney was made manager of Ireland? Absolutely not.
Was Sean Cavanagh or Graham Canty consulted before Anthony Tohill was made manager of Ireland? Absolutely not.
The owners decide. And in GAA, the owners are the people, not the players who are merely a small subset of these same people, and merely passing through.

There is a system in place, whereby clubs elect club delegates, and club delegates represent the club at county board level.
The system is not broken. There is no need to fix.

We are talking about the most (and amateur) successful sporting organisation not just nationally, but globally in my view. And what makes it great is the fact that personalities are never bigger than the association. The cult of manager is a thing that has cropped up recently, but the wonderful thing is that these personalities often melt back into the ether when they get the occasional dose of humble pie...Kernan, O'Connor, Og Cusack... But the show goes on.

What would you rather exactly?

A democratic system of election, when the preferred candidate is elected. And then if you like him a lot, then change that system so that he can be manager for all eternity, but then when you are not happy with him (this will of course happen because you are evidently fickly by nature) and then put it back to a democratic vote.

The GAA is not based on whimsy or caprice, it is based on procedure and rules.

This is not Russia and Putin. When the rules said he couldn't remain in power, he tweaked the rules, and he's still the guvnor over there. What exactly do you want?

And before players put their name to any statements, they need to think more about their own performances when they cross the white line, and when their command of the most basic skills of Gaelic Football come down to themselves and not who the current manager is or should be, or concentrating on copper fastening a position on the team for next year by kicking on from encouraging performances in the white and blue and by making a significant mark in the club championships within the county.

In the Ulster Final, the Monaghan team gave possession of the ball back to the Tyrone team FORTY times in approx 40 minutes of actual playing time (and that does not include losing Monaghan kickouts), though poor kicks, handpasses, getting dispossessed or fouling the ball. If I was party to an abject statistic like that, I would think long and hard before writing a misguided letter to 'the media' about who the next manager should be.

In the Ulster Final and last round of qualifiers one particular player (I don't wish to personalize) repeatedly kicked the ball to the opposition or over the sideline and constantly frustrated his inside forwards with poor deliveries under limited pressure. He would be better served to think about that aspect of his game than to worry about who the next manager is and signing letters.

One of the forwards caused three totally unnecessary fouls inside the first 5 minutes against Kildare, when Monaghan were building up a head of steam and two points to no score to the good. Think more about that than signing pointless letters.

Two hugely talented teenagers are on this Monaghan panel. One has nailed down his jersey this year, and he needs to stay focussed on next year and ensuring he wasn't a one hit wonder. Not to become complacent and to build on the promise. Another who finally featured as a substitute seems to have all that is required at county level, so he needs to stay focussed too.

These guys would be well advised not become led by players who have been around for ten years and who are possibly approaching their intercounty expiry date.

These lads have no business signing statements when they are barely finding their feet at county level.

I'm never sure why this happens, but I feel it is a mixture of a few things:
-  'well sure every other county has done it' (Offally, Roscommon, Donegal, Cavan, Cork, Cork, Cork) so I suppose we should...
- players of an older vintage, or players who might be deemed 'close to the manager', may feel that their place on the panel for the following season may be under pressure if there is a change at the top.
- media stirring things up. As soon as the third Sunday of September passes and when there is a need to cmplement the inevitable sh1tstirring when the Compromise Rules comes to town, the media will need some player-power, medical expecnse outrages and GPA stories to keep the typewriters clickety clicking.

The future of Monaghan is hugely promising. And it is downright stupid for anyone to think that the success or failure will come down to whether one man remains at the helm or not.

Players like Dermot Malone, Colin Walshe, Kieran Duffy, Colm Greenan, Darren Hughes, Kieran Hughes, Conor McManus should be serious players for Monaghan over the next few years, with hopefully the likes of T Freeman, V Corey and P Finlay still there for the experience and class.

If the Banty remains, then that would be great. He has done an excellent job.
And if he does not remain, well then may the next man come in and do an excellent job.

The important thing is that the players retain open minds and just because the new man does things differently, just because he mightn't give a toss about S.A.Q. training or body fat, but perhaps has a more acute tactical awareness. None of it matters. What should matter to the players is the fact that managers are passing through too, as indeed the players are the temporary holders of the jersey, before passing it on to the next generation. All they should care about is that jersey, about fighting tooth and nail for their place in the Div 1 team next February and about keeping that jersey for next May and June. Managers come and go. Players come and go.

But players, please just play.

A friend of mine was involved in one of those player power actions a number of (10?) years ago, he finished playing 5 or 6 years back. He looks back now on that whole player power episode with mortal embarassment. He sees the big picture a lot better. That tends to happen when you look at things from a step back.

Last thing I'll say here is that players should play END OF (and I still play).

I hope some of the Monaghan panel are reading this.

[The Konica]

Players should concentrate on playing.

I don't mean to sound old fashioned (I still play myself), but a 19 year old or a 22 year old or any age of player has no business taking part in the issuing of statements, dictats or thinly veiled threats. Players should be concentrating on their own development. The clue is in the language. Players play. Adminstrators administer. Delegates are those who a club (the building block of the who damned thing) delegates action to.

A defined system and process put the Banty in place at the outset of his tenure, and who are the players to comment on whether or not this process is appropriate 6 years later? Who is anyone to decide - except the owners? And the owners are those people put in place, in a defined, tried and tested system in the most successful amateur organisation in the world.

If you don't agree with the system, then to borrow some bullet point letters from the players' statement:

a. become a club delegate yourself at your own club AGM and exercise your voice and your opinion (lot's of players do...Dessie Farrell did while still a relatively young player)

or

b. start your own association.

Was Fernando Torres consulted about the appointed before Hodgson was made manager of Liverpool? Absolutely not.
Was Brian O'Driscoll consulted before Declan Kidney was made manager of Ireland? Absolutely not.
Was Sean Cavanagh or Graham Canty consulted before Anthony Tohill was made manager of Ireland? Absolutely not.
The owners decide. And in GAA, the owners are the people, not the players who are merely a small subset of these same people, and merely passing through.

There is a system in place, whereby clubs elect club delegates, and club delegates represent the club at county board level.
The system is not broken. There is no need to fix.

We are talking about the most (and amateur) successful sporting organisation not just nationally, but globally in my view. And what makes it great is the fact that personalities are never bigger than the association. The cult of manager is a thing that has cropped up recently, but the wonderful thing is that these personalities often melt back into the ether when they get the occasional dose of humble pie...Kernan, O'Connor, Og Cusack... But the show goes on.

What would you rather exactly?

A democratic system of election, when the preferred candidate is elected. And then if you like him a lot, then change that system so that he can be manager for all eternity, but then when you are not happy with him (this will of course happen because you are evidently fickly by nature) and then put it back to a democratic vote.

The GAA is not based on whimsy or caprice, it is based on procedure and rules.

This is not Russia and Putin. When the rules said he couldn't remain in power, he tweaked the rules, and he's still the guvnor over there. What exactly do you want?

And before players put their name to any statements, they need to think more about their own performances when they cross the white line, and when their command of the most basic skills of Gaelic Football come down to themselves and not who the current manager is or should be, or concentrating on copper fastening a position on the team for next year by kicking on from encouraging performances in the white and blue and by making a significant mark in the club championships within the county.

In the Ulster Final, the Monaghan team gave possession of the ball back to the Tyrone team FORTY times in approx 40 minutes of actual playing time (and that does not include losing Monaghan kickouts), though poor kicks, handpasses, getting dispossessed or fouling the ball. If I was party to an abject statistic like that, I would think long and hard before writing a misguided letter to 'the media' about who the next manager should be.

In the Ulster Final and last round of qualifiers one particular player (I don't wish to personalize) repeatedly kicked the ball to the opposition or over the sideline and constantly frustrated his inside forwards with poor deliveries under limited pressure. He would be better served to think about that aspect of his game than to worry about who the next manager is and signing letters.

One of the forwards caused three totally unnecessary fouls inside the first 5 minutes against Kildare, when Monaghan were building up a head of steam and two points to no score to the good. Think more about that than signing pointless letters.

Two hugely talented teenagers are on this Monaghan panel. One has nailed down his jersey this year, and he needs to stay focussed on next year and ensuring he wasn't a one hit wonder. Not to become complacent and to build on the promise. Another who finally featured as a substitute seems to have all that is required at county level, so he needs to stay focussed too.

These guys would be well advised not become led by players who have been around for ten years and who are possibly approaching their intercounty expiry date.

These lads have no business signing statements when they are barely finding their feet at county level.

I'm never sure why this happens, but I feel it is a mixture of a few things:
-  'well sure every other county has done it' (Offally, Roscommon, Donegal, Cavan, Cork, Cork, Cork) so I suppose we should...
- players of an older vintage, or players who might be deemed 'close to the manager', may feel that their place on the panel for the following season may be under pressure if there is a change at the top.
- media stirring things up. As soon as the third Sunday of September passes and when there is a need to cmplement the inevitable sh1tstirring when the Compromise Rules comes to town, the media will need some player-power, medical expecnse outrages and GPA stories to keep the typewriters clickety clicking.

The future of Monaghan is hugely promising. And it is downright stupid for anyone to think that the success or failure will come down to whether one man remains at the helm or not.

Players like Dermot Malone, Colin Walshe, Kieran Duffy, Colm Greenan, Darren Hughes, Kieran Hughes, Conor McManus should be serious players for Monaghan over the next few years, with hopefully the likes of T Freeman, V Corey and P Finlay still there for the experience and class.

If the Banty remains, then that would be great. He has done an excellent job.
And if he does not remain, well then may the next man come in and do an excellent job.

The important thing is that the players retain open minds and just because the new man does things differently, just because he mightn't give a toss about S.A.Q. training or body fat, but perhaps has a more acute tactical awareness. None of it matters. What should matter to the players is the fact that managers are passing through too, as indeed the players are the temporary holders of the jersey, before passing it on to the next generation. All they should care about is that jersey, about fighting tooth and nail for their place in the Div 1 team next February and about keeping that jersey for next May and June. Managers come and go. Players come and go.

But players, please just play.

A friend of mine was involved in one of those player power actions a number of (10?) years ago, he finished playing 5 or 6 years back. He looks back now on that whole player power episode with mortal embarassment. He sees the big picture a lot better. That tends to happen when you look at things from a step back.

Last thing I'll say here is that players should play END OF (and I still play).

I hope some of the Monaghan panel are reading this.

Excellent Post Giveitlong.
Some great points and well made.

[derryhero]

great post there, the really long one

mind u, we didnt ask for ur life story,so next time jus keep the post legnth to 4 lines

clown

[Maguire01]

mind u, we didnt ask for ur life story,so next time jus keep the post legnth to 4 lines

Yep, I gave up half way through.

Anyway, back to the topic itself - I welcome this development. I've said before, some Monaghan people need a reality check - i don't believe any other manager is going to come in and work miracles. I do believe Banty can deliver an Ulster title and maybe even bring Monaghan to a semi-final - we probably should have won an Ulster this year, but some days it just doesn't click. I don't believe any new manager is going to do any better. Monaghan is a small county and the team is punching well above its weight - a lot of that is down to Banty.

Also, given the players' statement, i'd say it's less likely that candidates within the county will let their names go forward for nomination.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

great post there, the really long one

mind u, we didnt ask for ur life story,so next time jus keep the post legnth to 4 lines

clown

Unfair, you're asking for trouble there, Derry lad, and you're no hero in my book.

A fair piece, from the heart, from Giveitlong.