Teachers get it handy!

[JimStynes]

Any good DVDs?

Frozen might not suit secondary school.

[tonto1888]

Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

[johnneycool]

Any good DVDs?

My wee lad was telling me their teacher allowed them to watch Christmas Vacation a few days before they got off for Christmas. They're 11 year olds.

I know the teacher well on a personal level and was out with them over the holidays when I asked about the choice and one particular scene where Clark Griswald is looking out over the back yard and dreaming of his swimming pool with a scantily clad young lady getting out of the water seductively and she admitted she'd clean forgot about it and was doing some paperwork when she heard the sniggers from the class and looked up to see that scene. The remote was too far away to forward it on, so she just let it play out, but its now off her playlist she tells me.
I recommended trading places to her instead!!!

[Il Bomber Destro]

Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

[Longshanks]

Bomber your obviously a WOM, my wife is a teacher and plenty of her friends are and she works 8-5 and then comes home and can be marking 2-3 hours per night (which they don't get paid for) and also marks at the weekends. I'm thankful that I'm in a job thats 9-5 and I dont worry about it in the evening or the weekend.

The fully deserve in holidays they get, if you think its such an easy job then maybe get into it yourself.

[themac_23]

According to reports it will take £1000 per teacher to put them through the new qualification to allow them to drive a minibus.  Time to flog the minibus and hire in transport.  According to site below, any one who got their test 20 years ago should have the D1 qualification.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/driving-minibus

Having a D1 on your licence (which everyone automatically got when they passed their car test 20 years ago) isn't enough seemingly. You must have the D1 by test and the driver qualification card to prove so.
It's a bit strange as it appears that anyone can drive a minibus as a volunteer, for a GAA club for example but not for an institution in which you are employed. Perhaps some decent souls in the community could 'volunteer' to drive their local school's minibus in an act of kindness.

Is this change as a result of lobbying by the transport hire business? The previous interpretation of the information on the DVA site is that driving for a non-commercial organisation, i.e. a school, is allowed on a D1 licence and only commercial work requires additional certification.

This question is highlighted by the DVA being unavailable for comment when they had already been in contact with the EA to give its interpretation of its own ruling.

From DVA:

Driving licences issued before 1 January 1997

If you passed your car driving test before 1 January 1997, you may have entitlement to drive minibuses on a voluntary basis (limited to social purposes on behalf of a non-commercial body), provided your licence hasn't been medically restricted. This entitlement, category D1 with restriction code 79 (nfhr) is displayed on your licence. It is valid throughout the United Kingdom.

'nfhr' stands for 'not for hire or reward' which  means that you cannot accept any payment, either cash or in kind, made by or on behalf of the passengers that gives them the right to be carried in the vehicle.

Licences without minibus entitlement

If your driving licence does not indicate that you are allowed to drive minibuses, you may be permitted to drive a minibus within the United Kingdom on behalf of a non-commercial organisation, if you meet all the following conditions:

you have a full car licence
you have held that licence for at least two years on aggregate
your are aged over 21 years
you receive no payment or consideration other than out of pocket expenses
you are driving on a voluntary basis
you are driving for social purposes

The only possibility is that in court, restriction code 79 (nfhr) could interpret the 'not for hire or reward' as not allowing an employee to drive as they are being paid to do so, even though it more likely referred to being able to drive a minibus in a scenario where the driver was a commercial entity and was employed by a business charging for hire.

On the other hand, is someone within the legal department of the EA bringing this new interpretation forward for fear of litigation against one of its schools as the EA is a self insuring organisation, i.e. it does not buy commercial insurance in many instances and is prepared to pay out against any claim against it proven in court?

Anyone who wants a bit more info on this from me a PM.

[tonto1888]

Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

[Il Bomber Destro]

Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

[FermGael]

Any good DVDs?

Kodi is some job

[manfromdelmonte]

Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

I often do two weeks of courses during the summer
I might also help on our GAA summer camp for a week (voluntary)
Some summers I've gone off teaching in the Gaeltacht. the money isn't great but it gives me a chance to put some fheabhas on my Irish which I need all year long.

other summers I've just disappeared on the first day off and not come back until a day or two before the school resumes.
every teacher is different.
3 more days left

[bennydorano]

That's very interesting about Teachers' Leave entitlements and conditions, first I'd ever heard of it. Seeing as though the changes happened in the 80s only Teachers of a certain vintage would be aware of this and presumably all Teachers have went into the profession with their eyes open since. All sectors see changes to Ts&Cs but what's the Statute of Limitations in referencing them in an argument!

[JimStynes]

100 pages! Mostly filled with non teachers too! Jealous of our holidays   
Nearly there lads!

[tonto1888]

Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

you do not have a clue what you are talking about and quite clearly now nothing about the working lives of teachers. Cheerio

[Milltown Row2]

Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

you do not have a clue what you are talking about and quite clearly now nothing about the working lives of teachers. Cheerio

Or rugby, so if there are any rugby playing teachers out there ....

I can't wait, while I loved the holidays when I did it I'm glad I work over the summer as being off the whole summer with the wife would drive ya batty!

[Il Bomber Destro]

Ha so says Bomber who was never a teacher!!

The legality of sending a child to school with a recording device, is breaking the law right there,

So only those who have 3/4 months annual leave in the year are entitled to comment on whether it is justified or not?

You'd soon find the real reason people take a career in teaching up if the annual leave entitlements were brought in line with other public sector workers.

Says the person who doesn't understand the idea of 'paid leave' or how teachers are paid.

Teachers are very well paid for their work. Their problem is that their place of employment only opens for 195 days per year.  So, their pay is limited.  They do not have the benefit of being able to work on the 42 days that others in full time employment can avail of.

They are only paid for working 195 days each year plus 28 days paid leave rather than the maximum 237 days ((53x5) - 28) that would be the norm for all other workers in full time employment who also receive 28 days paid leave. 

Up until the 1980s, teachers did not receive payment outside the school year.  Then a government decision was taken that payment should be spread over 12 months and not 10 months to ease and smooth the cash flow in the public sector purse.  This is now the norm for all public sector employees employed for less than 237 days.  So, at that time, teachers accepted a reduction in their monthly salaries because they were still paid for their work but payment was spread over the whole year.

Nowadays, under legislation for all employees, teachers get 28 days of holiday pay like all other public sector employees but this is subsumed into school closures. There was no increase in salary to take account of this change. Only 4 years ago, teachers received this right to the 28 days of paid holiday like every other worker.  A teacher ill for a period that does end before the summer break is entitled like every other worker to take all lost holidays before returning to work but if the period off is followed by the summer break then it is assumed that lost holidays are taken during the summer break.

However, teachers on temporary contracts, where they are paid the daily rate, remain without the right to holiday pay.  They are effectively on a form of zero hours contracts.  They earn the same as their permanent and temporary one year contracted colleagues over the year but are paid more per month, in any month without school closures, because they receive the daily rate = salary/195 rather than having it spread over the whole year.  They are only paid on the days they work and are unemployed outside the 195 days the school is open.

In short, teachers receive no more paid holidays than any other public sector employee, they are just very well paid on the 195 days they work and the statutory 28 days of paid holiday enjoyed by all.

Semantics.

They get paid throughout the year and are off work for 3/4 months of it.

Overpaid and underworked. There's never a shortage of teachers because people get into teaching for the holidays, take the holiday package away and bring it in line with other public sector areas and the amount of people pursuing teaching as a career would drop dramatically.

It then might stop teachers complaining about a lack of hours.

I think you meant underpaid and overworked. If you know nothing about a topic bomber you really shouldn't comment on it. As for people go into teaching for the holidays, wrong again. I never met a teacher who did that. In fact, I know quite a few, including myself, who got out of teaching despite the holidays

No I didn't. I've worked and lived with teachers so I do have my own insights to what they do. You said you never knew a teacher got it in for the holidays. Brilliant, so there should be no objection if teachers were put to working during the school breaks with community based projects.

Teachers live in a bubble. They are overpaid and underworked.

Are you a teacher or married to one?

So you have no first hand experience of teaching do you? Why would they do community based projects? Although I know quite a few who do that kind of work during holidays, running summer camps etc, but why would they? Would you put a doctor onto community based projects during thir time off? A binman? A solicitor? So why a teacher
I will say it again, with first hand experience, unlike you. Teachers are overworked and underpaid

Why would they do community based projects? Because for one quarter of the working year they do nothing. Teachers are like unionists in that they feel a sense of entitlement to perks that others don't have and never will

It's quite simple really. If the very generous holidays that teachers get are not a reason or incentive for people pursuing that career then it shouldn't be a problem scrapping that entitlement and bringing it in line with other, already generous, public sector employment.

Teachers are very defensive about their  3 months holidays. They feel a sense of entitlement to them. Why do they feel they deserve them in contrast with other workers?

you do not have a clue what you are talking about and quite clearly now nothing about the working lives of teachers. Cheerio

I would counter that teachers would not know anything about a working life. They have more in common with benefits recipients than the working man.