Boxing Thread

DennistheMenace · November 17, 2009, 05:21:18 PM

Quote from: nrico2006 on November 17, 2009, 08:55:33 AM
QuoteMore importantly though Gallsman at junior welterweight and welterweight he beat the men who would be considered "the man" by " the Ring". That is to say that in the absence of PBF, Cotto was the man. Pacquiao is now the man and not PBF. If Pac-Man wins he is GOAT, if Mayweather wins that is not the case.

I see not much is mentioned of the losses the great Pac-man has suffered in his career - surely these losses challenge, with 2 of them against pretty much unknown fighters, counter his claims to being the GOAT.

IIRC his first loss was when he was 17 early on in his professional career and fighting a seasonsed fighter ten years older so this really doesn't have much bearing on his legacy as such. Being undefeated is overrated imo, it is who you have fought that counts more and that is why the likes of Calaghze whilst undoubtedly a good fighter will never go down as one of the greats because for him his career came at a time when he didn't have much quality opponents in comparison to previous decades.

Mayweather hand picks his fighters very very carefully and in a business like manner. Marquez was always going to be caught by Floyd and is past his best, Hatton smaller and an easy target was a smart matchup fromhis camp too. Mayweather would be very reluctant to fight a Cotto or a Mosely because he knows they are a threat with their punching ability.

Pacquiao v Mayweather would be the biggest ppv event ever without a doubt and I'm not sure what way it would go. Cotto's tactics were spot on in the first round when he boxed with his jab and didn't trade with pacman, this is how I'd see Mayweather trying to counter him. It would be a contrast of styles and I'd love to see what way the bookies would have them.

At the minute i've much more respect for pacman because who he has fought and how he has fought and this alone means a hell of a lot more than the undefeated record of Mayweather.

Mickey Linden · November 17, 2009, 05:51:37 PM

If it happens, when is the Mayweather and Pacquio fight likely to be?

DennistheMenace · November 17, 2009, 06:03:58 PM

Quote from: Mickey Linden on November 17, 2009, 05:51:37 PM
If it happens, when is the Mayweather and Pacquio fight likely to be?

Probably take place next May if it happens.

Most likely still going to be held in Vegas and even talk of a 30,000 outdoor temporary stadium being made to facilitate it but I think it's unlikely.

CiKe · November 17, 2009, 07:42:34 PM

Whiskey steve. Think you're being a bit unfair on some of Pacmans opponents to be honest. Barrera, Morales Marquez are all first ballot Hall of Famers and he went 5-1-1 against them, stopping all of them. Cotto is a top drawer fighter. DLH was much big fighter and people weren;t sure before th fight how that would pan out - feeling was that if DLH caught him it would be lights out (which is what I thought would eventually happen against Cotto).

The Famous Four each fantastic fighters no doubt, but also had losses against not so great fighers. Does it matter that Pacman's were at the beginning of his career as opposed to Terry NOrris making Ray Leonard look stupid? Personally I don't think should count against either of them. For me out of those four Duran was the best, followed by Hagler (who I still think beat Leonard), then Leonard barely - first time round Hearns outboxed him. Having started out as lightweight, Duran was just too small against the others really so to put it up to Hagler and to beat Leonard was incredible. As a lightweight he was incredible.

Always thought it was pity that Aaron Pryor missed out on the super fights with these guys as he would have given them plenty of trouble.

Can you imagine Pacman - Pryor or Pacman - Duran? The things dreams are made of.

Anyway, I think Mayweather is a better boxer than Leonard or the others, and is the best defensive boxer in donkeys - better even than Pernell Whitaker. That's not to say PBF will be remembered in the same breath as the Famous 4, but if Manny beats Mayweather, for me Manny should be above them.

DennistheMenace · November 17, 2009, 07:57:37 PM

Quote from: CiKe on November 17, 2009, 07:42:34 PM
Whiskey steve. Think you're being a bit unfair on some of Pacmans opponents to be honest. Barrera, Morales Marquez are all first ballot Hall of Famers and he went 5-1-1 against them, stopping all of them. Cotto is a top drawer fighter. DLH was much big fighter and people weren;t sure before th fight how that would pan out - feeling was that if DLH caught him it would be lights out (which is what I thought would eventually happen against Cotto).

The Famous Four each fantastic fighters no doubt, but also had losses against not so great fighers. Does it matter that Pacman's were at the beginning of his career as opposed to Terry NOrris making Ray Leonard look stupid? Personally I don't think should count against either of them. For me out of those four Duran was the best, followed by Hagler (who I still think beat Leonard), then Leonard barely - first time round Hearns outboxed him. Having started out as lightweight, Duran was just too small against the others really so to put it up to Hagler and to beat Leonard was incredible. As a lightweight he was incredible.

Always thought it was pity that Aaron Pryor missed out on the super fights with these guys as he would have given them plenty of trouble.

Can you imagine Pacman - Pryor or Pacman - Duran? The things dreams are made of.

Anyway, I think Mayweather is a better boxer than Leonard or the others, and is the best defensive boxer in donkeys - better even than Pernell Whitaker. That's not to say PBF will be remembered in the same breath as the Famous 4, but if Manny beats Mayweather, for me Manny should be above them.

DLH was shot whenever Pacman fought him but I'd still have fancied him to win a few years earlier.

Don't think Cotto is exactly a 'top drawer fighter', a very good boxer but anyone with quick movement and who can deal with his body shots have a good chance against him, he will beat most of what I call the B level, the likes of Hatton, Margarito etc.. Mosley I'm not so sure.

It's futile really to compare Pacman and Mayweather to the golden generation of boxing era, both these fighters will go down as two of the best of their respective era and whoever wins it will go down as thee best and probably one of the best of all-time. As I've said before though, I've still got my reservations about Floyd but make no mistake, he is certainly capable of beating Pacman if he boxes and moves with counter punches like Cotto tried for a short period of time.

Hurler on the Bitch · November 17, 2009, 11:25:24 PM

I think that Pacman against Rogie would be a great fight?

Archie Mitchell · November 18, 2009, 02:52:34 PM

Ricky Hatton is set to fight again. Rumoured to be fighting Juan Manuel Marquez next year. Either in Manchester or Wembley.

Seems to be a final swansong for Ricky. Good final pay day too.

Wise move or should he just hang them up?

nrico2006 · December 02, 2009, 02:31:37 PM

See RJJ got beat by Danny Green, just shows how far he has fallen since he was at the peak of his powers, puts Calzaghes win in perspective. I see Matthen Macklin is looking to fight Pavlik next, that would be a decent scrap. But I see Macklin is quoted as saying he wants to get in there and beat Pavlik before someone else does - sure Pavlik has already been beat. I would love to see Khan knocked out this weekend, he does some spouting off about how good he will become and how much he has improved. He came out with a line recently saying he doesn't want to fight any of the big guns yet as they are at different stages of their careers - crap. He will wait to the like of Hatton is 34 or 35. If he is a world champion now he can't avoid the big names, and he is often talking down regarding Prescott but why has he not attempted to avenge the loss instead of classing Prescott as a one or two round fighter?

AbbeySider · December 02, 2009, 03:31:31 PM

Quote from: Archie Mitchell on November 18, 2009, 02:52:34 PM
Ricky Hatton is set to fight again. Rumoured to be fighting Juan Manuel Marquez next year. Either in Manchester or Wembley.

Seems to be a final swansong for Ricky. Good final pay day too.

Wise move or should he just hang them up?

I was watching Sky Sports News the last day and they reckon that Khan is lined up to fight Hattin next September.
It was Freddie Roach that said it in an interview.

BTW I think Freddie Roach is a legend.

Galwaybhoy · December 02, 2009, 04:00:41 PM

Quote from: AbbeySider on December 02, 2009, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on November 18, 2009, 02:52:34 PM
Ricky Hatton is set to fight again. Rumoured to be fighting Juan Manuel Marquez next year. Either in Manchester or Wembley.

Seems to be a final swansong for Ricky. Good final pay day too.

Wise move or should he just hang them up?

I was watching Sky Sports News the last day and they reckon that Khan is lined up to fight Hattin next September.
It was Freddie Roach that said it in an interview.

BTW I think Freddie Roach is a legend.

That he is.

the scenic route · December 02, 2009, 04:09:58 PM

Is Matthew Macklins fight this weekend being shown on RTE or any channel for that matter, I cant imagine it would be on sky, but wouldn mind seeing it. He seems like a likable lad.
Was listening to him on the Radio at the weekend there, apparently he used to be a fine hurler came over to south tipp every summer as a youngster to play the game, Played for tipperary U16's alongside one Eoin Kelly.

Celt_Man · December 02, 2009, 04:44:24 PM

Quote from: the scenic route on December 02, 2009, 04:09:58 PM
Is Matthew Macklins fight this weekend being shown on RTE or any channel for that matter, I cant imagine it would be on sky, but wouldn mind seeing it. He seems like a likable lad.
Was listening to him on the Radio at the weekend there, apparently he used to be a fine hurler came over to south tipp every summer as a youngster to play the game, Played for tipperary U16's alongside one Eoin Kelly.

Aye it's on RTÉ two this Saturday evening

gallsman · December 02, 2009, 07:30:39 PM

RJJ's game was up years ago. He should have quit after demolishing Ruiz. Regardless of what people say, I believe in his prime he'd have beaten Collins, Calzaghe, Cwis, Benn- the lot of them. Best boxer I've ever seen in my lifetime. Blinding speed, ferocious power and he rarely got tagged. Really hope he doesn't try to squeeze one last pay day and have the Hopkins fight go ahead anyway- it would be like the Mayweather-Judah fight.

Archie Mitchell · December 02, 2009, 07:41:36 PM

Great interview with Mayweather here

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid29318049001?bctid=50763587001

nrico2006 · December 03, 2009, 08:49:11 AM

QuoteRJJ's game was up years ago. He should have quit after demolishing Ruiz. Regardless of what people say, I believe in his prime he'd have beaten Collins, Calzaghe, Cwis, Benn- the lot of them. Best boxer I've ever seen in my lifetime. Blinding speed, ferocious power and he rarely got tagged. Really hope he doesn't try to squeeze one last pay day and have the Hopkins fight go ahead anyway- it would be like the Mayweather-Judah fight.

Agree with you completely. I used to watch alot of him years ago around the time he suffered his first loss (technically a loss but he was disqualified for hitting Montell Griffin when hed had been knocked down). He was unbelievable in his prime, the best I have ever seen. He has already fought on too long and he has already dented his legacy.