Dublin v Kerry 2023 Senior All Ireland final

[square_ball]

Dean Rock is no bad sub to bring on.

Still a top class free taker but not from open play any more imo. Farrell mustn't see him as much of an impact sub either bringing him on in the 70th, 68th & 68th minute of the last 3 matches.

[square_ball]

I'm sure he's glad he did on Sunday.

Dropped one short and hit a straightforward free with the last kick.

Not disputing his quality but at this stage of his career just wouldn't class him as a hugely impactful sub to bring on.

[tbrick18]

A lot of ifs and buts in the last page or so around who could have done better this year and who is in contention next year.

Next year is a new year and no doubt every team will have new issues and challenges. Teams will have saw how the new group type format panned out and perhaps approach next year differently so that could bring a whole different complexion to the championship.

After last year, I had Galway as serious contenders this year, but a few key injuries and a couple of flat performances meant they have dropped back again. Who knows what they will be next year. I wouldn't rule them out, but I also think they will find it more difficult to progress as the likes of Derry, Roscommon, Monaghan and Cork have all improved this year.

Derry could be in the same boat as Galway next year. No idea on the seriousness of the injury to McKinless for example. If we lose him to injury, or Rogers or McGuigan....the outlook for the year would be entirely different. If we keep everyone fit, sort out the management situation and find a consistent forward or 2 to support mcguigan then there's an AI there I feel. I think had we been able to get over the line against Kerry, we'd have pushed Dublin harder than Kerry did. But that might be oak leaf tinted glasses - just my opinion. From what I saw in the SF and Final, Derry are better than Kerry. Yes that's controversial perhaps, but it's what I think based on those games. Division 1 will be good for Derry next year and set them up better for a tilt at the AI - provided we stay injury free.

Mayo - had their chance again this year. Only positive they can take from it is that Dublin went on to win. Not sure what sort of prospect they will be next year.

Roscommon - I just can't see it. Hard to beat, very strong at home but lack a bit of quality.

Cork - might be a surprise package next year. They have improved immensely over the course of this year. Who knows what they will do next year under a very astute manager.

Tyrone - I think they are done with the current crop. The players who were there for the AI in 2 years ago are well past their best. The 2 canavan lads will undoubtedly form the core part of their attacking play going forward. Management apparently looking to stay on for another 3 years - which for me would be a mistake. I think they need to rebuild. Short term goals would be to become competitive in Ulster again.

Monaghan - too many of the key players are over a certain age. Injuries are bound to come into play and speed too. They won't just drop away, but I also don't see them winning an AI.  A SF might be as far as they can go with this crop, but nothing wrong with that. Puts them top 4 in the country which is impressive given the population of the county in comparison to some others.

Armagh - just don't buy into the hype around them. The much lauded forward division is no-where near the quality of Dublin/Kerry/Derry/Galway/Tyrone. They are a big physical team too focused on being hard men than playing football. But.....if they didn't play that way they probably wouldn't win half as many games so I guess you play to your strengths. Realistically, in with a decent shout in Ulster next year, but not in the race for Sam at all. McGeeney might well be getting the best out of these players right now with the system he plays.

Then you still have Kerry and Dublin.
Dublin might start the rebuilding process, possibly a number of retirements. Even if that doesnt happen, I still feel they are beatable now and not at that same level of 6 in a row.
Kerry are certainly beatable but still impressive too. Defensively much better than years gone by, but a little inconsistent in attack. They have a really good age profile though and will probably improve year on year for the next while.

[statto]

A lot of ifs and buts in the last page or so around who could have done better this year and who is in contention next year.

Next year is a new year and no doubt every team will have new issues and challenges. Teams will have saw how the new group type format panned out and perhaps approach next year differently so that could bring a whole different complexion to the championship.

After last year, I had Galway as serious contenders this year, but a few key injuries and a couple of flat performances meant they have dropped back again. Who knows what they will be next year. I wouldn't rule them out, but I also think they will find it more difficult to progress as the likes of Derry, Roscommon, Monaghan and Cork have all improved this year.

Derry could be in the same boat as Galway next year. No idea on the seriousness of the injury to McKinless for example. If we lose him to injury, or Rogers or McGuigan....the outlook for the year would be entirely different. If we keep everyone fit, sort out the management situation and find a consistent forward or 2 to support mcguigan then there's an AI there I feel. I think had we been able to get over the line against Kerry, we'd have pushed Dublin harder than Kerry did. But that might be oak leaf tinted glasses - just my opinion. From what I saw in the SF and Final, Derry are better than Kerry. Yes that's controversial perhaps, but it's what I think based on those games. Division 1 will be good for Derry next year and set them up better for a tilt at the AI - provided we stay injury free.

Mayo - had their chance again this year. Only positive they can take from it is that Dublin went on to win. Not sure what sort of prospect they will be next year.

Roscommon - I just can't see it. Hard to beat, very strong at home but lack a bit of quality.

Cork - might be a surprise package next year. They have improved immensely over the course of this year. Who knows what they will do next year under a very astute manager.

Tyrone - I think they are done with the current crop. The players who were there for the AI in 2 years ago are well past their best. The 2 canavan lads will undoubtedly form the core part of their attacking play going forward. Management apparently looking to stay on for another 3 years - which for me would be a mistake. I think they need to rebuild. Short term goals would be to become competitive in Ulster again.

Monaghan - too many of the key players are over a certain age. Injuries are bound to come into play and speed too. They won't just drop away, but I also don't see them winning an AI.  A SF might be as far as they can go with this crop, but nothing wrong with that. Puts them top 4 in the country which is impressive given the population of the county in comparison to some others.

Armagh - just don't buy into the hype around them. The much lauded forward division is no-where near the quality of Dublin/Kerry/Derry/Galway/Tyrone. They are a big physical team too focused on being hard men than playing football. But.....if they didn't play that way they probably wouldn't win half as many games so I guess you play to your strengths. Realistically, in with a decent shout in Ulster next year, but not in the race for Sam at all. McGeeney might well be getting the best out of these players right now with the system he plays.

Then you still have Kerry and Dublin.
Dublin might start the rebuilding process, possibly a number of retirements. Even if that doesnt happen, I still feel they are beatable now and not at that same level of 6 in a row.
Kerry are certainly beatable but still impressive too. Defensively much better than years gone by, but a little inconsistent in attack. They have a really good age profile though and will probably improve year on year for the

They did push them hard the game was level 3 minutes into added time and Kerry were 3 up at 2 different stages of second half. 

Loughlin/Toner wouldn't start on any other division 1 team.  Derry forward line would be well behind most of these other teams also.  McGuigan is as good as their is about but don't really have another go to forward.  McFaul, Cassidy, Doherty are all good players in own right but wouldn't be relying on them to weigh in with 3 or 4 points every day. 

[Mario]

I disagree we'd have pushed Dublin harder than Kerry, considering we'd have been without McKinless and McGrogan

[tbrick18]

I disagree we'd have pushed Dublin harder than Kerry, considering we'd have been without McKinless and McGrogan

Fair point - I didnt consider that. Both key players for Derry.

[statto]

I disagree we'd have pushed Dublin harder than Kerry, considering we'd have been without McKinless and McGrogan

McGrogan going off in semi final was very understated Padraig Cassidy was a man down when came on and also meant Conor Dohertys role had to change. 

[Rossfan]

Seems Derry are the real AI Champions

[JoG2]

The people's champions

[Real Talk]

A lot of ifs and buts in the last page or so around who could have done better this year and who is in contention next year.

Next year is a new year and no doubt every team will have new issues and challenges. Teams will have saw how the new group type format panned out and perhaps approach next year differently so that could bring a whole different complexion to the championship.

After last year, I had Galway as serious contenders this year, but a few key injuries and a couple of flat performances meant they have dropped back again. Who knows what they will be next year. I wouldn't rule them out, but I also think they will find it more difficult to progress as the likes of Derry, Roscommon, Monaghan and Cork have all improved this year.

Derry could be in the same boat as Galway next year. No idea on the seriousness of the injury to McKinless for example. If we lose him to injury, or Rogers or McGuigan....the outlook for the year would be entirely different. If we keep everyone fit, sort out the management situation and find a consistent forward or 2 to support mcguigan then there's an AI there I feel. I think had we been able to get over the line against Kerry, we'd have pushed Dublin harder than Kerry did. But that might be oak leaf tinted glasses - just my opinion. From what I saw in the SF and Final, Derry are better than Kerry. Yes that's controversial perhaps, but it's what I think based on those games. Division 1 will be good for Derry next year and set them up better for a tilt at the AI - provided we stay injury free.

Mayo - had their chance again this year. Only positive they can take from it is that Dublin went on to win. Not sure what sort of prospect they will be next year.

Roscommon - I just can't see it. Hard to beat, very strong at home but lack a bit of quality.

Cork - might be a surprise package next year. They have improved immensely over the course of this year. Who knows what they will do next year under a very astute manager.

Tyrone - I think they are done with the current crop. The players who were there for the AI in 2 years ago are well past their best. The 2 canavan lads will undoubtedly form the core part of their attacking play going forward. Management apparently looking to stay on for another 3 years - which for me would be a mistake. I think they need to rebuild. Short term goals would be to become competitive in Ulster again.

Monaghan - too many of the key players are over a certain age. Injuries are bound to come into play and speed too. They won't just drop away, but I also don't see them winning an AI.  A SF might be as far as they can go with this crop, but nothing wrong with that. Puts them top 4 in the country which is impressive given the population of the county in comparison to some others.

Armagh - just don't buy into the hype around them. The much lauded forward division is no-where near the quality of Dublin/Kerry/Derry/Galway/Tyrone. They are a big physical team too focused on being hard men than playing football. But.....if they didn't play that way they probably wouldn't win half as many games so I guess you play to your strengths. Realistically, in with a decent shout in Ulster next year, but not in the race for Sam at all. McGeeney might well be getting the best out of these players right now with the system he plays.

Then you still have Kerry and Dublin.
Dublin might start the rebuilding process, possibly a number of retirements. Even if that doesnt happen, I still feel they are beatable now and not at that same level of 6 in a row.
Kerry are certainly beatable but still impressive too. Defensively much better than years gone by, but a little inconsistent in attack. They have a really good age profile though and will probably improve year on year for the

They did push them hard the game was level 3 minutes into added time and Kerry were 3 up at 2 different stages of second half. 

Loughlin/Toner wouldn't start on any other division 1 team.  Derry forward line would be well behind most of these other teams also.  McGuigan is as good as their is about but don't really have another go to forward.  McFaul, Cassidy, Doherty are all good players in own right but wouldn't be relying on them to weigh in with 3 or 4 points every day. 

Given that that Derry play a game system where when they have the ball every one attacks and when the haven't the ball everyone defends - when your'e at the the game it is only then that you appreciate that ( when they defend) how much ground that particularly Loughlin, Toner and Paul Cassidy cover when tracking back which means theyr'e not going to be in the scoring "D zone " as often when the transition to attacking mode happens. 
Derry maximise the team effort consistently to great effect but it requires a high level of fitness.  I'm sure you will have noticed that Loughlin and Toner are mostly taken off after 60ish mins and replaced with Herron and Murray

[tbrick18]

A lot of ifs and buts in the last page or so around who could have done better this year and who is in contention next year.

Next year is a new year and no doubt every team will have new issues and challenges. Teams will have saw how the new group type format panned out and perhaps approach next year differently so that could bring a whole different complexion to the championship.

After last year, I had Galway as serious contenders this year, but a few key injuries and a couple of flat performances meant they have dropped back again. Who knows what they will be next year. I wouldn't rule them out, but I also think they will find it more difficult to progress as the likes of Derry, Roscommon, Monaghan and Cork have all improved this year.

Derry could be in the same boat as Galway next year. No idea on the seriousness of the injury to McKinless for example. If we lose him to injury, or Rogers or McGuigan....the outlook for the year would be entirely different. If we keep everyone fit, sort out the management situation and find a consistent forward or 2 to support mcguigan then there's an AI there I feel. I think had we been able to get over the line against Kerry, we'd have pushed Dublin harder than Kerry did. But that might be oak leaf tinted glasses - just my opinion. From what I saw in the SF and Final, Derry are better than Kerry. Yes that's controversial perhaps, but it's what I think based on those games. Division 1 will be good for Derry next year and set them up better for a tilt at the AI - provided we stay injury free.

Mayo - had their chance again this year. Only positive they can take from it is that Dublin went on to win. Not sure what sort of prospect they will be next year.

Roscommon - I just can't see it. Hard to beat, very strong at home but lack a bit of quality.

Cork - might be a surprise package next year. They have improved immensely over the course of this year. Who knows what they will do next year under a very astute manager.

Tyrone - I think they are done with the current crop. The players who were there for the AI in 2 years ago are well past their best. The 2 canavan lads will undoubtedly form the core part of their attacking play going forward. Management apparently looking to stay on for another 3 years - which for me would be a mistake. I think they need to rebuild. Short term goals would be to become competitive in Ulster again.

Monaghan - too many of the key players are over a certain age. Injuries are bound to come into play and speed too. They won't just drop away, but I also don't see them winning an AI.  A SF might be as far as they can go with this crop, but nothing wrong with that. Puts them top 4 in the country which is impressive given the population of the county in comparison to some others.

Armagh - just don't buy into the hype around them. The much lauded forward division is no-where near the quality of Dublin/Kerry/Derry/Galway/Tyrone. They are a big physical team too focused on being hard men than playing football. But.....if they didn't play that way they probably wouldn't win half as many games so I guess you play to your strengths. Realistically, in with a decent shout in Ulster next year, but not in the race for Sam at all. McGeeney might well be getting the best out of these players right now with the system he plays.

Then you still have Kerry and Dublin.
Dublin might start the rebuilding process, possibly a number of retirements. Even if that doesnt happen, I still feel they are beatable now and not at that same level of 6 in a row.
Kerry are certainly beatable but still impressive too. Defensively much better than years gone by, but a little inconsistent in attack. They have a really good age profile though and will probably improve year on year for the

They did push them hard the game was level 3 minutes into added time and Kerry were 3 up at 2 different stages of second half. 

Loughlin/Toner wouldn't start on any other division 1 team.  Derry forward line would be well behind most of these other teams also.  McGuigan is as good as their is about but don't really have another go to forward.  McFaul, Cassidy, Doherty are all good players in own right but wouldn't be relying on them to weigh in with 3 or 4 points every day. 

Given that that Derry play a game system where when they have the ball every one attacks and when the haven't the ball everyone defends - when your'e at the the game it is only then that you appreciate that ( when they defend) how much ground that particularly Loughlin, Toner and Paul Cassidy cover when tracking back which means theyr'e not going to be in the scoring "D zone " as often when the transition to attacking mode happens. 
Derry maximise the team effort consistently to great effect but it requires a high level of fitness.  I'm sure you will have noticed that Loughlin and Toner are mostly taken off after 60ish mins and replaced with Herron and Murray

Yeah and this is why I'd be reluctant to single out any of our forwards for not doing enough or being good enough.
There's no questioning the effort these guys give during a game and it doesn't always get recognised as they don't finish with 3-4 points.

[Captain Obvious]

A lot of ifs and buts in the last page or so around who could have done better this year and who is in contention next year.

Next year is a new year and no doubt every team will have new issues and challenges. Teams will have saw how the new group type format panned out and perhaps approach next year differently so that could bring a whole different complexion to the championship.

After last year, I had Galway as serious contenders this year, but a few key injuries and a couple of flat performances meant they have dropped back again. Who knows what they will be next year. I wouldn't rule them out, but I also think they will find it more difficult to progress as the likes of Derry, Roscommon, Monaghan and Cork have all improved this year.

Derry could be in the same boat as Galway next year. No idea on the seriousness of the injury to McKinless for example. If we lose him to injury, or Rogers or McGuigan....the outlook for the year would be entirely different. If we keep everyone fit, sort out the management situation and find a consistent forward or 2 to support mcguigan then there's an AI there I feel. I think had we been able to get over the line against Kerry, we'd have pushed Dublin harder than Kerry did. But that might be oak leaf tinted glasses - just my opinion. From what I saw in the SF and Final, Derry are better than Kerry. Yes that's controversial perhaps, but it's what I think based on those games. Division 1 will be good for Derry next year and set them up better for a tilt at the AI - provided we stay injury free.

Mayo - had their chance again this year. Only positive they can take from it is that Dublin went on to win. Not sure what sort of prospect they will be next year.

Roscommon - I just can't see it. Hard to beat, very strong at home but lack a bit of quality.

Cork - might be a surprise package next year. They have improved immensely over the course of this year. Who knows what they will do next year under a very astute manager.

Tyrone - I think they are done with the current crop. The players who were there for the AI in 2 years ago are well past their best. The 2 canavan lads will undoubtedly form the core part of their attacking play going forward. Management apparently looking to stay on for another 3 years - which for me would be a mistake. I think they need to rebuild. Short term goals would be to become competitive in Ulster again.

Monaghan - too many of the key players are over a certain age. Injuries are bound to come into play and speed too. They won't just drop away, but I also don't see them winning an AI.  A SF might be as far as they can go with this crop, but nothing wrong with that. Puts them top 4 in the country which is impressive given the population of the county in comparison to some others.

Armagh - just don't buy into the hype around them. The much lauded forward division is no-where near the quality of Dublin/Kerry/Derry/Galway/Tyrone. They are a big physical team too focused on being hard men than playing football. But.....if they didn't play that way they probably wouldn't win half as many games so I guess you play to your strengths. Realistically, in with a decent shout in Ulster next year, but not in the race for Sam at all. McGeeney might well be getting the best out of these players right now with the system he plays.

Then you still have Kerry and Dublin.
Dublin might start the rebuilding process, possibly a number of retirements. Even if that doesnt happen, I still feel they are beatable now and not at that same level of 6 in a row.
Kerry are certainly beatable but still impressive too. Defensively much better than years gone by, but a little inconsistent in attack. They have a really good age profile though and will probably improve year on year for the

They did push them hard the game was level 3 minutes into added time and Kerry were 3 up at 2 different stages of second half. 

Loughlin/Toner wouldn't start on any other division 1 team.  Derry forward line would be well behind most of these other teams also.  McGuigan is as good as their is about but don't really have another go to forward.  McFaul, Cassidy, Doherty are all good players in own right but wouldn't be relying on them to weigh in with 3 or 4 points every day.

Yes you can't push much harder than that.  I'd say Dublin would have the game wrapped up much sooner against Derry.

Watching back the final a 2nd time last night what stood out was the contribution of Colm Basquel, I counted 1-6 of Dublin's scores that went through his hands he stepped up big time when the more highly rated forwards Con O'Callaghan,Cormac Costello and Ciaran Kilkenny struggled to create and score on the day.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Yeah, Basquel had an excellent second half.  Pretty unlucky to get booked 1st half, I thought. Looked like a clash of heads when I saw it on tv.

[imtommygunn]

Watch the last ten minutes or so too. Most things came through Kilkenny - he had a massive bearing on the outcome of that game.

[restorepride]

Watch the last ten minutes or so too. Most things came through Kilkenny - he had a massive bearing on the outcome of that game.

100% correct, controlled the movement at the crucial time.