Gooch Retires

Started by Gold, April 04, 2017, 08:48:07 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

ashman

To be fair to Gooch the Kerry team have been a decline since 2009.  They were lucky cork were naive that year too.  The Dubs have been beating an average enough Kerry team since 2011 TBH .  The team was ageing and replacing leavers with lesser players . 

The Stallion

Clarke didn't have the potential to be as good as Cooper. He was a fine footballer but even had he stayed injury free he would not have reached Cooper's level or even close to it.

Maroon Manc

Injuries have robbed Galway of a potential all time great in Michael Meehan.

Syferus

Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 06, 2017, 04:44:12 PM
Injuries have robbed Galway of a potential all time great in Michael Meehan.

Galway robbed themselves tbh.

thebuzz

Quote from: ashman on April 06, 2017, 02:52:01 PM
To be fair to Gooch the Kerry team have been a decline since 2009.  They were lucky cork were naive that year too.  The Dubs have been beating an average enough Kerry team since 2011 TBH .  The team was ageing and replacing leavers with lesser players .

I wouldn't mind if my team had been in decline since 2009 if they won Sam in 2014.

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 06, 2017, 09:05:56 AM
Quote from: The Stallion on April 06, 2017, 08:26:22 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 06, 2017, 06:13:56 AM
Fantastic footballer and a joy to watch. Interestingly Ronan Clarke and he made his debut the same year possibly even on the same day. Clarke won Young player of the year that year whilst Gooch won an all star. Pity about Clarkes injuries or that would have been a great battle to watch over the years.

Clarke was a good young player but not in the same League as Cooper.

Clarke was better, did it in big games when it really mattered.

Battle? No disrespect to Clarke but not even on the same planet!

Il Bomber Destro

Quote from: omagh_gael on April 06, 2017, 01:34:22 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2017, 06:56:42 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 05, 2017, 09:34:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 05, 2017, 09:22:59 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 05, 2017, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 05, 2017, 12:00:45 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 04, 2017, 11:48:33 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on April 04, 2017, 09:08:36 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 04, 2017, 08:20:17 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 04, 2017, 07:46:44 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

:D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.

OK. I'm getting the hang of it. Winning by a lot is a sign of a bad team.


Love it Hardy, you've totally destroyed that argument.

Yes Hardy, the games they lost were by small margins and that's a testament to how good they were. However, there is a strong argument that whenever they met their biggest rivals (Tyrone 00s and Dublin in the 10s) they invariably lost on the biggest days.

The finals they won since Gooch came on the scene:

2 x Mayo
2  x Cork
1 x Donegal (Durcan mistake being the decisive moment)

Finals they lost:

Tyrone x 2
Dublin x 2
Armagh x1

I think it's fair to say that Tyrone and Kerry were the standout teams from the 00s and Dublin hold that mantle in the '10s and Kerry win record in the biggest occasions was 0%. Of course, their biggest achievement is being consistently in the finals but that's an argument for another day.

And Gooch didn't play against Donegal too in 2014.

It depends what you value, those who rate Gooch so highly obviously rate style over substance.

There's no doubting the skill and talent Cooper had but greatness isn't just about that, to me I'd put more weight in being able to deliver what you are capable of when it matters and when you're really up against it. They really decide the greats and Cooper was superb when the elements were in his favour but regularly disappeared when they turned, a great player is not a slave to the elements, he is a decider of his own destiny.

The Stallion


Il Bomber Destro


Maiden1

Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on April 06, 2017, 06:10:49 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on April 06, 2017, 01:34:22 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2017, 06:56:42 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 05, 2017, 09:34:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 05, 2017, 09:22:59 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 05, 2017, 11:28:33 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 05, 2017, 12:00:45 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 04, 2017, 11:48:33 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on April 04, 2017, 09:08:36 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 04, 2017, 08:20:17 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 04, 2017, 07:46:44 PM
Look at the finals Kerry won and lost over that period. All close games were lost!

:D :D
Wind-up of the week.

Well played Colm Cooper - one of the best I've seen.

Don't believe that Gooch hid in big games, however, this statement is pretty close to the truth. Outside of the 2014 final when Durkan handed the game to them Kerry haven't won a close final since the 90s.

... or in other words, Kerry, when they don't win, lose only narrowly.

..........or in other words they lose tight games.

OK. I understand. They'd be a better team if they lost by more.

No they'd be better if they won even one tight final.

OK. I'm getting the hang of it. Winning by a lot is a sign of a bad team.


Love it Hardy, you've totally destroyed that argument.

Yes Hardy, the games they lost were by small margins and that's a testament to how good they were. However, there is a strong argument that whenever they met their biggest rivals (Tyrone 00s and Dublin in the 10s) they invariably lost on the biggest days.

The finals they won since Gooch came on the scene:

2 x Mayo
2  x Cork
1 x Donegal (Durcan mistake being the decisive moment)

Finals they lost:

Tyrone x 2
Dublin x 2
Armagh x1

I think it's fair to say that Tyrone and Kerry were the standout teams from the 00s and Dublin hold that mantle in the '10s and Kerry win record in the biggest occasions was 0%. Of course, their biggest achievement is being consistently in the finals but that's an argument for another day.

And Gooch didn't play against Donegal too in 2014.

It depends what you value, those who rate Gooch so highly obviously rate style over substance.

There's no doubting the skill and talent Cooper had but greatness isn't just about that, to me I'd put more weight in being able to deliver what you are capable of when it matters and when you're really up against it. They really decide the greats and Cooper was superb when the elements were in his favour but regularly disappeared when they turned, a great player is not a slave to the elements, he is a decider of his own destiny.
That sounds like 1 of Enda McNulty's quotes.
There are no proofs, only opinions.

David McKeown

Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 06, 2017, 04:44:12 PM
Injuries have robbed Galway of a potential all time great in Michael Meehan.

Another fine footballer alright. It just shows that to get to the level of guys like the Gooch etc you need more than just skill. Luck plays a major part in it too
2022 Allianz League Prediction Competition Winner

Main Street

He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.




Syferus

Quote from: David McKeown on April 06, 2017, 08:42:30 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 06, 2017, 04:44:12 PM
Injuries have robbed Galway of a potential all time great in Michael Meehan.

Another fine footballer alright. It just shows that to get to the level of guys like the Gooch etc you need more than just skill. Luck plays a major part in it too

Or not being continually rushed back and let play on a bum ankle..

Hardy

#118
Quote from: Main Street on April 06, 2017, 08:44:13 PM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.





Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

lenny

Quote from: Hardy on April 06, 2017, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 06, 2017, 08:44:13 PM
He was the baby faced assassin,  the wolf in sheep's clothing.





Cheap. (The post, I mean.)

I would trust the judgement of the legends Tomas O'se and the ex tyrone player Philip Jordan who now ironically writes a column for rte.ie long before I'd trust the judgement of Breheny or some of the biased posters on here. Both of those men rate Gooch as the greatest. They wouldn't be rating him that highly if he was all style and no substance. In my opinion he made games easy for Kerry when they might otherwise have been tight and that was because he took them by the scruff of the neck. Also there were a number of games where without him kerry would have been well beaten but because of his ability he kept kerry in the game and they only lost those games narrowly. It's a team game and putting defeats down to one man is okay only if you apply the same rule to all players. In the last 9 years tyrone for instance have lost 14 or 15 championship games and sean cavanagh has played in almost all of them. If he had taken those games by the scruff of the neck maybe tyrone would've won more of them. It's a ridiculous criteria to apply as you can spin it to make any player look bad unless they win every championship game they play.