Down Club Hurling & Football

[Targetman]

Target man, in case you didn't watch Monaghan thumped us last week, Dublin thumped them so it tells you that we have fallen way behind and one of the reasons is we don't have a centre of excellence, now unless you know a piece of land at a reasonable price, Ballykinlar seems to be the best show in town, also it's fairly central to all , the ground is sand based and won't cost a fortune , now I know there's going to be a few die hards who will revel in the British connection controversy but I believe them to be in the minority as the vote at the county board meeting will testify, so unless there's a spare million somewhere or some one has a positive alternative we should back this initiative,best news in a long time.

I was in Croke Park yesterday and seen both games, I know that Down are a long way off the top teams and a centre of excellence is to be welcomed but i know everyone won't agree on the location but no way is it central to all clubs

[Smurfy123]

Down are about 5 years behind Tyrone physically and 10 years tactically
Look at the subs Down put on last week
4 points down bring on aidan carr
5 points down McKibben
7/8 points down Poland
3 minutes and 8 points down O Hare
10 seconds to go Murphy who was brilliant when he came on in the ulste final
If the top men in this county can't see that out senior management team are completely out of their depth then we are in trouble
Who are these men in the backroom team making the changes??

[thewobbler]

Spot on wobbler it is in the arsehole of no where let's be frank about it.
Some hammerings given out yesterday just puts Downs season int perspective
We won 4 games all year
Derry-Without 4 Slaughneill players and a host of injuries
Meath-1 of the worst Meath teams in living memory
Armagh-Take a look at yesterday
Monaghan-Possibly the most overrated team that has every played our sport

Wobbler can you sum up Downs year?A man who talks a lot of sense and you seem to be a realist.

The year was genuinely as good as as it could be. Stayed in D2. Won a championship match we'd no expectation of winning, and beat the old rivals Armagh.

Getting armagh at home in the championship was a genuine boon to the players. Whether or not they like/respect/enjoy Eamon Burns was never an issue; they'd a tangible and realistic goal to aim at all winter long. Perhaps, and I'm hoping so, it has allowed a few of the panel to reassess their opinion on him, and now get behind him, as what emanated at the end of the previous season was not what you want to hear.

Anyhow next season's draw is unusually important to progress. Pick up Antrim or Fermanagh, or possibly Cavan or Armagh at home, and the players will know they'll have a chance of creating a championship season. Tyrone in any venue, or Donegal, Derry or Monaghan away, and I'd expect a few boots to be nailed this winter.

Personally if I don't think we can afford to lose a couple of stalwarts. There are good players, potentially solid county players in Down who've never yet played county ball. But I don't think there's anyone in the club scene at present who will close the gap with Tyrone if given a chance.

This year's minor group is more promising than any in recent memory; they're an athletic bunch which is a great start. But none of them will be fit for big ball until 2-3 years time.

[Mourne Rover]

One of the key objectives of the Ballykinlar project, although it is not likely to be part of any official statement, is to eventually get Down in a position to compete with Tyrone,  who are miles ahead of all the other Ulster counties in terms of resources and facilities.

Tyrone's centre of excellence at Garvaghey is in an out of the way location, some distance from all their main towns, and in a hilly district where the wind is a big problem even in the summer.

However, the Tyrone county board decided that it was in a reasonably central part of their county, agreed that they could afford it and simply got on with it. Results at all levels over recent seasons have vindicated them.

We could look back at the missed opportunity of the former Castlewellan High School site in the 1990s and the subsequent Burrenbridge disaster, and feel sorry for ourselves as long as we like.

Alternatively, we could work out what is affordable and available to us in a setting accessible to all sections of our county, and start the task of catching up with our opponents.

The short stretch of road between Clough and Ballykinlar could do with an upgrade, but the land is at sea level, the soil is sand based and the neighbourhood has a long association with the training of Down teams.

It actually offers a number of advantages over Garvaghey if we can get the planning and financing aspects finalised so our destiny is in our own hands.

We have made clear progress with our senior squad this season but Tyrone remain the bench mark. They do not automatically produce better teams us but the Ulster final demonstrated that many of their players enjoy advantages in terms of physical and coaching preparations which we need to address.

It may take us five or even ten years to get there, but it has been 23 years since our last Ulster senior title and Ballykinlar surely gives us the chance to start heading in the right direction.

[oileain blues]

Smurfy and Wobbler are obviously in the minority when the subject of Ballykinlar is raised, if either of them had a viable alternative , I would be interested, but there isn't , the positives out weigh the negatives , for years players have trained in Ballykinlar , it's the only pitch playable after wet weather , your moaning about travelling to Ballykinlar, for years players trekked to Newry and not a word and the cost of hiring pitches for both hurling and football won't be an issue, there will be an income from clubs hiring the facility so ultimately our finances will be in a better shape, so wobbler, smurfy and target man wake up and smell the coffee , it's going to happen and all your petty personal greviances you may have with the county board won't stop it, Mourne rovers comments are right on the mark, if any one has a viable alternative that won't bankrupt us or that is unattainable please come forward because I for one would be interested in reading them

[thewobbler]

Smurfy and Wobbler are obviously in the minority when the subject of Ballykinlar is raised, if either of them had a viable alternative , I would be interested, but there isn't , the positives out weigh the negatives , for years players have trained in Ballykinlar , it's the only pitch playable after wet weather , your moaning about travelling to Ballykinlar, for years players trekked to Newry and not a word and the cost of hiring pitches for both hurling and football won't be an issue, there will be an income from clubs hiring the facility so ultimately our finances will be in a better shape, so wobbler, smurfy and target man wake up and smell the coffee , it's going to happen and all your petty personal greviances you may have with the county board won't stop it, Mourne rovers comments are right on the mark, if any one has a viable alternative that won't bankrupt us or that is unattainable please come forward because I for one would be interested in reading them

It might be the most obvious solution now. But here's the thing. This isn't like building a house, where if you see another one you fancy, you sell up and move. This is committing Down football to an outpost for eternity.


So here's the alternative: wait until a suitable, more central site comes along. Then commit with everything we have.

[thewobbler]

And by the way. This isn't a petty grievance. I don't do that sort of thing.

[johnneycool]

Smurfy and Wobbler are obviously in the minority when the subject of Ballykinlar is raised, if either of them had a viable alternative , I would be interested, but there isn't , the positives out weigh the negatives , for years players have trained in Ballykinlar , it's the only pitch playable after wet weather , your moaning about travelling to Ballykinlar, for years players trekked to Newry and not a word and the cost of hiring pitches for both hurling and football won't be an issue, there will be an income from clubs hiring the facility so ultimately our finances will be in a better shape, so wobbler, smurfy and target man wake up and smell the coffee , it's going to happen and all your petty personal greviances you may have with the county board won't stop it, Mourne rovers comments are right on the mark, if any one has a viable alternative that won't bankrupt us or that is unattainable please come forward because I for one would be interested in reading them

Don't be going and complicating things by trying to cater for us hurlers. Why change the habit of a lifetime?

Are we not already bankrupt?

[thewobbler]

Here's the Centres of Excellence that we would be required to benchmark our facilities and success against.

Garvaghey. Positioned directly on the MAIN road between Tyrone's two largest towns, Omagh and Dungannon, and in close proximity to Ballygawley Roundabout, which connects the county to the rest of Ireland.

Cloghan. Positioned directly on the MAIN road that dissects Monaghan and offers easy access to Dublin based players, and close proximity to key population centres Castleblaney and Clontibret.

Darver: a 5 minute drive from the M1 that connects most of Louth, and offers easy access to Dublin based players. Close to key population centres Dundalk and Ardee.

Owenbeg: Positioned directly on the MAIN road that connects Derry City to its rural towns, and roughly half way between its key population bases of Magherafelt and Derry City.

Dunganny: Positioned a 5 min drive from the M3, providing direct access for Dublin based players, and a short drive from key population centres at Navan and Trim.

Can anyone spot what's different about Ballykinler?

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Johnnycool, this isn't about hurling or football. This is about convenience, and the potential for knock on effect for our county teams should players begin to feel inconvenienced.

If we are going to get the hurling men to board the ferry 3 nights a week (something which I'm not quite sure would happen as regularly as the county board would expect), then they're already inconvenienced. Driving to castlewellan at that point is no onerous task.

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That we used to train in ballykinler is a moot point. It was a guaranteed winter pitch from a club who rarely used it. It was the path of least resistance.

Once facilities appeared that were more suited to player logistics, it was left behind.

Players who work / live in Belfast and Dublin will not accept this change easily or gracefully.

[Brick Tamlin]

Can someone explain where the money for this is going to come from?

I dont agree with Ballykinlar being the best site for a facility like this and I also dont think there should ever be a halfway house or a short term solution for now.
Agreed with previous poster saying we should be waiting for the best available site and put absolutely everything into it.

Cant wait to see the spin the bull that will be peddled to sell this dream to the masses. Popcorn at the ready.

[johnneycool]

Here's the Centres of Excellence that we would be required to benchmark our facilities and success against.

Garvaghey. Positioned directly on the MAIN road between Tyrone's two largest towns, Omagh and Dungannon, and in close proximity to Ballygawley Roundabout, which connects the county to the rest of Ireland.

Cloghan. Positioned directly on the MAIN road that dissects Monaghan and offers easy access to Dublin based players, and close proximity to key population centres Castleblaney and Clontibret.

Darver: a 5 minute drive from the M1 that connects most of Louth, and offers easy access to Dublin based players. Close to key population centres Dundalk and Ardee.

Owenbeg: Positioned directly on the MAIN road that connects Derry City to its rural towns, and roughly half way between its key population bases of Magherafelt and Derry City.

Dunganny: Positioned a 5 min drive from the M3, providing direct access for Dublin based players, and a short drive from key population centres at Navan and Trim.

Can anyone spot what's different about Ballykinler?

----

Johnnycool, this isn't about hurling or football. This is about convenience, and the potential for knock on effect for our county teams should players begin to feel inconvenienced.

If we are going to get the hurling men to board the ferry 3 nights a week (something which I'm not quite sure would happen as regularly as the county board would expect), then they're already inconvenienced. Driving to castlewellan at that point is no onerous task.

---

That we used to train in ballykinler is a moot point. It was a guaranteed winter pitch from a club who rarely used it. It was the path of least resistance.

Once facilities appeared that were more suited to player logistics, it was left behind.

Players who work / live in Belfast and Dublin will not accept this change easily or gracefully.

I'd agree on the inconvienced side of things and Castlewellan would be the ideal location, but I wasn't aware there was a potential site available there.

Some of us are long enough in the tooth to have heard these fanciful plans for 30 odd years, from Derrylecka, St Malachys Castlewellan, heck, we've even had our own hurling centre of excellence in Kilclief before you even talk about Burrenbridge and the millstone that has become to take these things with a pinch of salt.

One thing has to be ensured is that no one, county executive, county committee or whoever is allowed to go on a solo run on this without total buy-in from the clubs as ultimately that's who's going to pay for it, just like Burrenbridge and the redevelopment of Newry.

[thewobbler]

You're absolutely right Johnny. No solo runs here.

In fairness the county board are going the right way about it by lining up the ducks before making the case to the clubs. But personally I'd prefer the clubs were consulted for initial feelings before committing to the cost of such a study. I can't promise you what any club would vote in this circumstance, not even my own. But more than a few will do what they can to block it... which is fence that should be jumped sooner rather than later.

By the way I'd expect that if a suitable plot was available in castlewellan the Board would already be investigating it. So it's not there now. But it's hardly the most developed part of the world; drive around there and all you'll see is green fields. Like Garvaghey was 15 years ago.

[gaaman2016]

According to Google maps it's a 7 minute drive from Clough. Road from Clough to Ballykinlar isn't the greatest but it's by no means the worst either. There are no issues with the road between Castlewellan and Clough.

This is a route that all east down based panelists must take when travelling to county training in Newry at the minute and I don't think I have seen any posters complaining about the location of county training in Newry

[thewobbler]

According to Google maps it's a 7 minute drive from Clough. Road from Clough to Ballykinlar isn't the greatest but it's by no means the worst either. There are no issues with the road between Castlewellan and Clough.

This is a route that all east down based panelists must take when travelling to county training in Newry at the minute and I don't think I have seen any posters complaining about the location of county training in Newry

Two wrongs don't make a right.

There are four main population bases in Down football, Belfast, Downpatrick, Kilkeel and Newry. The former is the most populous and the link between the latter two delivers the highest volume of clubs.

Pegging our training centre in proximity to the other one makes no sense.

[Dubh driocht]

For me this is a positive move although posters are right to ask questions and seek assurances. If more people had done that when the Burrenbridge fiasco was being steamrolled through we may be in a different place.

I think the greater Newry area posters must remember that our county ground is in your patch. We all put our hands in our pockets to pay for it. It's very handy for you while the rest of us have to travel for county and big club games. The argument about Dublin based players is a bit of a red herring- how many ? Two ?

It's the same distance from Belfast to Ballykinlar as it  is to Newry so the growing greater Belfast clubs are fine.
It's about the same for the Mourne clubs and a lot more convenient for greater Castlewellan and greater Downpatrick. It will be much handier for the Ards clubs and the surfaces are excellent for Hurling. So wobbler your arguments on location don't stack up.

If we get the right people in charge of the project- and from what I hear, they are- then it's an opportunity of a lifetime. The symbolism potential is not lost on any of us. Get de Valera's grandson up to open it and the wheel has turned full circle.