United ireland, whats has it to offer me.

[Orior]

Its happening already. ESB now own the electricty network up north.

And Lord Backside is in the House of Lords, so nobody left to save Ulster.

[Nally Stand]

Ireland was priest ridden for decades and the Church effectively ran the state. It didn't have to have priests sitting in the Dail to do this.

Is that because Ian Paisley told you so? Or maybe you were listening to Trimble describing it as a "pathetic, sectarian mono-ethnic, mono-cultural state". Maybe if unionists would stop believing fantasy scare stories about the whole other world which exists across an intangible border, then they might begin to realise that their leaders were filling them full of sh1t and that a UI really is to their advantage.

[delboy]

I knew a chap that would've had a similair outlook to yours Delboy (Garden centre Unionist etc.) and he was due a transfer down to Dublin offices from Lisburn. He was genuinely fearful of the reaction he would get from the natives - he had been down South before but had never lived there.

The one sentence that stuck out in my head was that after a few months he looked back and was amazed at how little people cared what sort of unionist he was, whether he marched up and down steets in his spare time etc. He ended marrying a native and is still there bringing up his kids, he's consistently amazed at the fact that he was only an hour or so up the road and his mindset was such that he was afraid of the move down the road for reasons that were not of his making.

You ask what a United Ireland has to offer you? The answer is quite simply - whatever you want it to........ the rest of your post is pointless dirge and excuse making, and frankly pathetic

Nice story, but i don't think me and the person in your story have that much in common to be honest, you most have missed my other contributions to the thread were i specifically said i don't view the south as some sort of bogey man (unlike the individual in your example).

I take it you also missed my second post which asked people to forget about the two disadvantages I'd listed (although jobs and healthcare are prime concerns)  as so many posters seemed to be getting hung up on them and were missing the thrust of the thread which was positive reasons for a unionist to agree to a UI.

I accept the first part of your final point (which is what zap said already) about changing a UI to whatever I want it to be and if you look at my posts you'll see i've advocated some quite radical things in relation to that end. However I do not accept the second part which labels any concerns I may have as being pathetic etc, my duty in life first and foremost it to provide for me and my family, everything and I mean everything else is secondary, if that elicits pathos/pity from you so be it TCB 

[illdecide]

Get a UI in and then after six months St I'lldecide shall drive all unionists out of the country like St Patrick did with the snakes

Of course I'm only joking, but i think the protestant/Unionists people would be very surprised by how much the people across the border don't give a f**k who or what you are (just as stephenite said)

[Declan]

A United Ireland governed by the muppets that currently reside in Dail Eireann offers nothing to anybody irrespective of their political persuasion

[johnneycool]

A United Ireland governed by the muppets that currently reside in Dail Eireann offers nothing to anybody irrespective of their political persuasion

And its those muppets who fear a UI as much as any unionist politician.

They and their ilk will get voted in again no matter how stupid they are.

[Orior]

A United Ireland governed by the muppets that currently reside in Dail Eireann offers nothing to anybody irrespective of their political persuasion

So why are you still living in Ireland?

[Declan]

So why are you still living in Ireland?

Personal family circumstances dictate that I'm not currently in a position to leave but have every plan to as soon as that changes in the next few years 

[Hardy]

why dont you answer hardy's question

I was actually trying to stay out of the thread awhile to see if any positives came out of it, but i don't see why that shouldn't be answered as it more about clarification than anything else.

Well large parts of what was the 'settlers' culture music, dance, literature etc has already been integrated into irish culture, that leaves the main defining cultural differnence of unionism 'marching' and associated things such as paying respect to those that sacraficed their lives during the two world wars.

I'll preface this by saying that im not a huge fan of parading but i think it would have to be accomadated in a new Ireland, im not talking about marching through catholic residencies were they aren't wanted. But it should be more than just being allowed to march in exclusively protestant areas, town centres etc are shared spaces and as such parades should be allowed into them on occasion (no reason why this couldn't also be the hibernians etc).

It would be great to see the new irish government for instance recognise those that laid down their lives during the two world wars, Alex maskey i think made a token gesture when he was lord mayor, things like that do wonders for building bridges and confidence.

But really though i guess i'd like to see some checks and balances be put in place such as the fair employment commison which we have here, not saying protestants would be prejudicied against in a new Ireland but again something like this would build confidence.   

And of course the removal of all religion from the state as laid out in my previous post.

Sorry - I promised you an answer if you specified the cultural observances you felt might be threatened in a UI. It was a bit of a trick question, as I was pretty sure that anything you came up with would not cause the batting of any measurable proportion of eyelids even in the republic as currently constituted, never mind in an agreed Ireland that you would have negotiated in order to provide for these requirements.

Personally, I abhor the concept of sectarian marches, but it would be my contribution to an agreed future to subsume this abhorrence and stay indoors as these people marched. I seem to be in a small minority in this principled objection, though, as even in this republic Orange marches are generally treated with at worst tolerance or, more generally, with bemused indifference by those who even notice them.

As for commemorations of the dead of the world wars, the state here already officially facilitates and participates in these commemorations and has done for more than a decade. It's a non-issue too.

Fair employment legislation exists in the current republic.

There is no "religion in the state" in the current republic. The constitutional provision according a “special position” to the Catholic church was removed in 1973.

The Catholic church does run the schools, to all intents and purposes, but to a non-sectarian set of principles – it’s not as if pupils must attend religious instruction. That’s a legacy of history and government lethargy. It’s a situation that won’t pertain for much longer and certainly wouldn’t survive negotiations for an agreed UI.

As for the invocation of God in the current constitution, I would favour its removal as a matter of principle, but I’d point out that (a) it’s a non-religiously-specific god at this stage and (b) we are far from the only republic in the world to have such a provision. Not to mention that the unwritten constitution under which you currently live installs the head of state as the head of the established church.

So, there you go. I can’t see any barriers to the enthusiastic embracing of an agreed united Ireland by the thinking unionist. Or Unionist.

However, when it comes to loyalists, I agree with whoever predicted that any move towards a UI would provoke a (completely irrational, as I’ve tried to demonstrate) violent reaction that would put the thirty years of the Troubles in the shade and that is the main reason I don’t think there’s any hope of it happening for at least a couple of generations. It would most certainly give pause to voters in any referendum. In fact, a reasonable person might conclude that a UI would not be worth even the contemplation of the bloodshed that it would provoke and might ask what freedoms and liberties now denied would a UI confer that would be worth this cost. The gravebound revolutions of long-dead patriots notwithstanding and not measuring up to the imperatives of the currently living and the yet to be born.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

in this new ireland unionists would make up about 20% of the population and could be in power after most elections with that block

Great point magickingdom they potenially would be in government no matter who they where in coalition with, and possibly may lead the government. 2025 An Taoiseach & leader of the DUP Lord Boyne welcomes HM King Charles III to Ireland.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

in this new ireland unionists would make up about 20% of the population and could be in power after most elections with that block

Great point magickingdom they potenially would be in government no matter who they where in coalition with, and possibly may lead the government. 2025 An Taoiseach & leader of the DUP Lord Boyne welcomes HM King Charles III to Ireland.

Unionists and FG shudder

Surley a new Ireland would put an end to the rediculous nationalist/Unionist/ and Pro/anti treaty political parties we have in Ireland now?  I would like to think so anyway. I could see a left/right approach to politics in a new ireland (or whatever the new country may be called).

I think by that point FG would happily enter govt. with an ex-Unionist or ex-Natonalist part such as the UUP or SF (if they had sound economic and social policies), but never with those shower of grave robbers F.F.

[magpie seanie]

Is Lord Boyne a new title for John Unionist?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Is Lord Boyne a new title for John Unionist?

I was thinking more Richard when he moves parties.   

[delboy]

why dont you answer hardy's question

I was actually trying to stay out of the thread awhile to see if any positives came out of it, but i don't see why that shouldn't be answered as it more about clarification than anything else.

Well large parts of what was the 'settlers' culture music, dance, literature etc has already been integrated into irish culture, that leaves the main defining cultural differnence of unionism 'marching' and associated things such as paying respect to those that sacraficed their lives during the two world wars.

I'll preface this by saying that im not a huge fan of parading but i think it would have to be accomadated in a new Ireland, im not talking about marching through catholic residencies were they aren't wanted. But it should be more than just being allowed to march in exclusively protestant areas, town centres etc are shared spaces and as such parades should be allowed into them on occasion (no reason why this couldn't also be the hibernians etc).

It would be great to see the new irish government for instance recognise those that laid down their lives during the two world wars, Alex maskey i think made a token gesture when he was lord mayor, things like that do wonders for building bridges and confidence.

But really though i guess i'd like to see some checks and balances be put in place such as the fair employment commison which we have here, not saying protestants would be prejudicied against in a new Ireland but again something like this would build confidence.   

And of course the removal of all religion from the state as laid out in my previous post.

Sorry - I promised you an answer if you specified the cultural observances you felt might be threatened in a UI. It was a bit of a trick question, as I was pretty sure that anything you came up with would not cause the batting of any measurable proportion of eyelids even in the republic as currently constituted, never mind in an agreed Ireland that you would have negotiated in order to provide for these requirements.

Personally, I abhor the concept of sectarian marches, but it would be my contribution to an agreed future to subsume this abhorrence and stay indoors as these people marched. I seem to be in a small minority in this principled objection, though, as even in this republic Orange marches are generally treated with at worst tolerance or, more generally, with bemused indifference by those who even notice them.

As for commemorations of the dead of the world wars, the state here already officially facilitates and participates in these commemorations and has done for more than a decade. It's a non-issue too.

Fair employment legislation exists in the current republic.

There is no "religion in the state" in the current republic. The constitutional provision according a "special position" to the Catholic church was removed in 1973.

The Catholic church does run the schools, to all intents and purposes, but to a non-sectarian set of principles – it's not as if pupils must attend religious instruction. That's a legacy of history and government lethargy. It's a situation that won't pertain for much longer and certainly wouldn't survive negotiations for an agreed UI.

As for the invocation of God in the current constitution, I would favour its removal as a matter of principle, but I'd point out that (a) it's a non-religiously-specific god at this stage and (b) we are far from the only republic in the world to have such a provision. Not to mention that the unwritten constitution under which you currently live installs the head of state as the head of the established church.

So, there you go. I can't see any barriers to the enthusiastic embracing of an agreed united Ireland by the thinking unionist. Or Unionist.

However, when it comes to loyalists, I agree with whoever predicted that any move towards a UI would provoke a (completely irrational, as I've tried to demonstrate) violent reaction that would put the thirty years of the Troubles in the shade and that is the main reason I don't think there's any hope of it happening for at least a couple of generations. It would most certainly give pause to voters in any referendum. In fact, a reasonable person might conclude that a UI would not be worth even the contemplation of the bloodshed that it would provoke and might ask what freedoms and liberties now denied would a UI confer that would be worth this cost. The gravebound revolutions of long-dead patriots notwithstanding and not measuring up to the imperatives of the currently living and the yet to be born.

Hardy I knew my list of demands on the cultural part wouldn't be very challenging, in fact I ask for nothing that it isn't already in place for nationalist/republicans currently living in NI.

For instance on the issue of parades, I see no reason why any group couldn't be accommodated, if republicans for instance want to celebrate some part of their past history via a parade whilst I may find it personally objectionable I would unequivocally uphold their right to do so.

Protection against discrimination, FEC, as mentioned already in place here.

The other thing I forgot to mention would be the retention of a British identity/passport which again shouldn't be that contentious as a parallel already exists here whereby nationalists have a recognised Irish identity and passport.

On the issue of religion I already knew that the catholic church had its special status removed quite some time ago and that the God in question isn't even necessarily designated a Christian God. However in the context of a new constitution I would like to see religion removed from the constitution all together, you can secure the rights of people to worship however they wish without having a God written into the constitution.

It might seem like im banging on about religious schools but as I see it whether they receive religious instruction at school or not is neither here nor there, im against them for more pragmatic reasons than that, put simply they split children into two groups, us and them, take the religious schools out of the equation and you have a real chance of us become a homogenous and harmonious society IMO.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Here here Dellboy, it is time Religion is removed completely from Bunreach na hEireann and any Constitution which replaces it.

Shouldn't it also makes sence that the United Kingdom should remove the Leader of the Church of England from the postion as Monarch? I wouldn't want the Pope as President.