Mayo v Galway NFL Division 1. 7/2/2010

[Tubberman]

I think we'll lose on Sunday, and I fear we could lose pretty badly.
But that's not because I think we've gone significantly backwards, it's more because Galway have been flying and seem the fittest team in the country (due to the 'individual' winter training they've been doing).
Mayo, on the other hand, are only back in collective training a few weeks. I wouldn't write off the year before it's started.
Nor would I write it off after Sunday, regardless of what happens.
I'm not expecting anything major from Mayo this year (a Connacht title and a semi-final appearance would be the most I'd hope for), but no need for the deep depression before the league has even started.

[Farrandeelin]

moysider didn't say worse mcdanger. He said as bad as. I wasn't at the Derry game in 07 but from what I've heard the DISplay was absolutely awful. You know when Mayo were only 4 up after the first quarter against Meath, the seeds of doubt were planted in my mind about the game that day.

[Barney]

The Derry display was atrocious. But then again we had 4/5 lads just out of minor playing only their second championship match, and without a years training behind them.

Last year we had a team that unfortunately choked when the going got tough. They did not play well on the day - if they had they may have won but there was a complacency and arrogance (mental weakness again) that was unwarranted in the run-up to the game. Some of the Mayo players think that they can be great without working for it. In any other county that game would be a turning-point, a wake-up call (e.g. Sligo v Tyrone) - in Mayo you fear it is just another catalogue that will allow some people involved at the higher levels bemoan their luck and continue doing the same thing with the same ready made excuses available if it goes belly-up.

[stephenite]

I had a huge piece typed up, one of the longest one I've typed in over 6 years on this board, it was generally querying the widespread negativity of nearly every Mayo poster on the board (I'm living away this last while as some would know), it seems to be mainly an anti JOM thing.

I scrapped to it ask a couple of questions.

Is JOM the right man to manage Mayo this season, if not,why not?

Have we the players in place to play at the highest level this year, if not are we missing a genuine talent in the county that could do the job (not Pierce Hanley)?

[the Deel Rover]

I had a huge piece typed up, one of the longest one I've typed in over 6 years on this board, it was generally querying the widespread negativity of nearly every Mayo poster on the board (I'm living away this last while as some would know), it seems to be mainly an anti JOM thing.

I scrapped to it ask a couple of questions.

Is JOM the right man to manage Mayo this season, if not,why not?

Have we the players in place to play at the highest level this year, if not are we missing a genuine talent in the county that could do the job (not Pierce Hanley)?

i think that when o'mahony came in to the job he wanted to quench expectations stephenite and he has certainly done that. i know staunch mayo supporters who would never have missed a match and now have no interest in going , i don't know whether its an anti o' mahony thing at this stage every one knows that he is there for another 2 years but this is his 4th year in charge and nothing seems to have changed with him. he has the same selectors involved , same trainer the set up needs to be freshened up IMO and that has not happened.

[stephenite]

I had a huge piece typed up, one of the longest one I've typed in over 6 years on this board, it was generally querying the widespread negativity of nearly every Mayo poster on the board (I'm living away this last while as some would know), it seems to be mainly an anti JOM thing.

I scrapped to it ask a couple of questions.

Is JOM the right man to manage Mayo this season, if not,why not?

Have we the players in place to play at the highest level this year, if not are we missing a genuine talent in the county that could do the job (not Pierce Hanley)?

i think that when o'mahony came in to the job he wanted to quench expectations stephenite and he has certainly done that. i know staunch mayo supporters who would never have missed a match and now have no interest in going , i don't know whether its an anti o' mahony thing at this stage every one knows that he is there for another 2 years but this is his 4th year in charge and nothing seems to have changed with him. he has the same selectors involved , same trainer the set up needs to be freshened up IMO and that has not happened.

Cheers Deel - for what's it worth I think JOM as a realist knew that he had to dampen down expectations in the County when he came on board, it's my opinion that we were lucky to beat Dublin in the semi final in 2006 and that JOM knew some of the older players like Mac and DB were not going to be the ones to get us over the line so he went back to the drawing board. He probably didn't handle the Mac situation in the most delicate manner and that's regrettable but this appears to happen in Mayo football where Maughan didn't handle DB or Kevin O'Neill very well either.

I don't think we have the players to win an AI under O'Mahoney but have the makings of a fairly decent team to keep us in the top 8-10 teams in the country, and that's all that can be expected from the players we have.

[Lar Naparka]

Cheers Deel - for what's it worth I think JOM as a realist knew that he had to dampen down expectations in the County when he came on board, it's my opinion that we were lucky to beat Dublin in the semi final in 2006 and that JOM knew some of the older players like Mac and DB were not going to be the ones to get us over the line so he went back to the drawing board. He probably didn't handle the Mac situation in the most delicate manner and that's regrettable but this appears to happen in Mayo football where Maughan didn't handle DB or Kevin O'Neill very well either.

I don't think we have the players to win an AI under O'Mahoney but have the makings of a fairly decent team to keep us in the top 8-10 teams in the country, and that's all that can be expected from the players we have.

That's a mighty fine post and, for the record, I do not disagree with one iota of what you wrote. You also wrote something some months ago to the effect that the only Mayo team that was genuinely unlucky in an AIF was the senior side in '96. Apart for saying that the minors of 2008 could have beaten Tyrone and the lads last year were in with a chance until the closing minutes, I'd fully accept your assessment.
Furthermore, the minor sides in question could have won but neither were the better side in their respective finals.
Without a doubt, Mickey and Beefer did lead us to the final of '06 but it was a game we hadn't the proverbial snowball's chance of winning. I have criticised Johnno over many things but I don't think if M&M were still in charge, the situation would be any better than it is now. Apart from team selection and substitutions, they had lost control to the senior players and were reduced to leading from the rear.
With all the hype and history that comes with Mayo football, John O'Mahony was always going to get flak from many quarters. He wants an AI as much as any of us and I've no hesitation in saying he genuinely feels he is doing his best.
The trouble for me is that when he talked about dampening expectations, he succeeded beyond his wildest expectations.

He probably didn't handle the Mac situation in the most delicate manner and that's regrettable but this appears to happen in Mayo football where Maughan didn't handle DB or Kevin O'Neill very well either.

You are being very diplomatic here;
If the McDonald episode is a true  measure of his tactical awareness and man management skills, the future will continue to be as depressing as the past—and the present.
Maybe I only see what I want to read but I can't find any evidence on this board that there is a widespread demand for an AI.

I don't think we have the players to win an AI under O'Mahoney but have the makings of a fairly decent team to keep us in the top 8-10 teams in the country, and that's all that can be expected from the players we have.

That sums up my feelings also; I think most here will agree with you also.
However, I'd say most will also agree with me that all obvious signs are pointing in the opposite direction.
This year so far, he has done little wrong and he may have some idea of where he plans to go. Good luck to him and may he succeed in everything he'd like to do.  Last year gave me some hope that he finally is beginning to tell his arse from his elbow.
As Johnno began to show signs of rationality, the spotlight switched to the players and to put it mildly, he will have a lot to do to get them within an assess' roar of an AI.
He certainly can't be blamed for all that's wrong with Mayo football but the buck stops with him. I also think that we don't have the players to go all the way but we may well have them by next season or the one after—if Johnno  gets the best out of what he has at present.

[AbbeySider]

Without a doubt, Mickey and Beefer did lead us to the final of '06 but it was a game we hadn't the proverbial snowball's chance of winning. I have criticised Johnno over many things but I don't think if M&M were still in charge, the situation would be any better than it is now.

Its not often I can disagree with you Lar but I cant let that quip slide.

When you in a final, of course you have a chance of winning it. In fact, its not often the best team skill wise that win finals. Its who wants it more, and who are tactically aware and Kerry were far hungrier than us and systemically took us apart without having to change the script from 2004.
A lot of what happened in that final is a direct result of the management not getting it right on the sideline and learning from the same mistakes made in 2004. Is it any wonder the players themselves took things into their own hands?

Beefer and Mickey Moran have to take some responsibility if not all of the responsibility for the following:

- Heads being wrong going into the game.
In interviews afterwards Beefer admitted that they treated the All-Ireland just the same as the previous game against Dublin and like it was just another game. They had the exact same routine as the semi which was wrong as they should have been prepared to lift the performance from the semi and not hope that things go well, which was a fools hope. You could see it in the faces of the Mayo players before the game, totally relaxed and not focused, kicking wide after wide and having a leisurely warm-up. However Kerry ware knocking the shite out of each other in a tight possession game the other end and they looked ready for battle. I could tell before the game that we were in for a hammering.

- Tactically not learning anything from 2004
Not starting Brady was a mistake after his display against Dublin in the Semi but Mickey Moran and Morrison failed to learn anything from our defeat against Kerry in 2004. The same problems were there in 2006 and the didnt do anything to combat them. Nallen was roasted in 2004 at centre back by Declan O Suilleabhain, and Kerry knew to run at him again in 2006 and Declan O Suilleabhain destroyed him in minutes (no disrespect to Nallen who was left exposed by Gardiner a lot but thats another story). Nallen didnt have the legs for CB in 2006, especially in wide open spaces like Croke Park. They had absolutely no plan to curb the Donaughy threat at the edge of the square when they should have played a sweeper behind Nallen to protect him and in front of Donaughy when high balls came in. They only got the idea to bring on Brady when he demanded it from the subs bench but it was already damage limitation and we were taking water. It was basic stuff.

- Losing control of the players
It was obvious that the management had no control of the players or dressing room in 2006. Between Brady and Heaney refusing to leave the front of the hill in the Semi and Brady calling the shot to be put in on Donaughy showed a lack of leadership by the management. The other thing that annoyed me was reading afterwards that nether of the management even knew or noticed that McGarity was off the pitch and receiving attention after the blow he got from Whealan. I cant imagine managing a team and not knowing a) your playing with 14 men and b) your main midfielder and one of the main players was injured.

A lot of stuff has been posted on these threads about M&M getting a raw deal from the county board but when you take into account the above and you were left with a decision after being crucified in another final to Kerry you have to ask questions of the management.

In 2006 we could have won, if the players believed and had respect for the management, if their heads were right going into the game and if the management had a clue what they were doing and learned from 2004.

[AbbeySider]

That was a complete rant! 

Apologies for hijacking the thread,
Lar you can reply to that one over on the Mayo discussion thread! 
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13.msg726626#msg726626

[galwayman]

I can't really understand why most of the Mayo lads on here are so sure ye will lose - and some of ye say heavily - at the weekend.
At the end of the day it is Galway v Mayo where there is rarely much between the teams and ye are playing at home.
What exactly have Galway done so far to merit such pessimism at your own chances?
All counties were in experimentation mode in the FBD - Galway and Mayo included - and both sides topped their groups despite not playing particularly well by all accounts.
Just because we have a new manager in Joe Kernan doesn't mean we are suddenly super fit and I don't know why everyone here seems to think Galway have all this extra training done because they haven't.

It is a 50-50 game and will be long forgotten in the summer when the real Galway v Mayo battle commences in McHale Park.

[the Deel Rover]

I can't really understand why most of the Mayo lads on here are so sure ye will lose - and some of ye say heavily - at the weekend.
At the end of the day it is Galway v Mayo where there is rarely much between the teams and ye are playing at home.
What exactly have Galway done so far to merit such pessimism at your own chances?
All counties were in experimentation mode in the FBD - Galway and Mayo included - and both sides topped their groups despite not playing particularly well by all accounts.
Just because we have a new manager in Joe Kernan doesn't mean we are suddenly super fit and I don't know why everyone here seems to think Galway have all this extra training done because they haven't.

It is a 50-50 game and will be long forgotten in the summer when the real Galway v Mayo battle commences in McHale Park.

that just shows you how low things are in mayo when we have a galway man trying to instill confidence in us  thanks  galwayman

[muppet]

I had a huge piece typed up, one of the longest one I've typed in over 6 years on this board, it was generally querying the widespread negativity of nearly every Mayo poster on the board (I'm living away this last while as some would know), it seems to be mainly an anti JOM thing.

No negativity here. Mayo will win Sam in 2010.

I scrapped to it ask a couple of questions.

Is JOM the right man to manage Mayo this season, if not,why not?

Yes, because Mayo will win Sam in 2010.

Have we the players in place to play at the highest level this year, if not are we missing a genuine talent in the county that could do the job (not Pierce Hanley)?

Don't know but Mayo will win Sam in 2010.

[GalwayBayBoy]

The two big men have their say.

O'Mahony hails great rivalry in Kernan's first taste of western derby

GALWAY v Mayo has always been one of the closest rivalries in football but they have taken it to fascinating levels over the past four years with no fewer than six of their last seven competitive clashes producing one-point wins.

Given that remarkable sequence, it's hardly surprising that bookmakers are divided on the outcome of Sunday's NFL clash in Castlebar. Ladbrokes have installed Mayo as 4/5 favourites with Galway at 5/4 while Paddy Power prices Galway at evens and Mayo at 11/10.

Only one of their last seven games has produced a clear winner when Galway had seven points to spare in the 2007 Connacht quarter-final. Otherwise, it has been incredibly close with the last two Connacht finals returning exactly the same scoreline (2-12 to 1-14), albeit with different winners.

Home advantage doesn't matter very much either as Mayo won championship and league games in Salthill and Tuam last year while in 2008 Galway recorded a double in Castlebar.

"As an outsider looking in, I'd always have thought of Galway v Mayo as a close rivalry but I didn't realise it was quite that tight. Mayo won the last two games so hopefully it's Galway's turn. Any margin will do," said new Galway manager, Joe Kernan.

John O'Mahony, who has managed both counties at alternate periods over 15 seasons, says it didn't matter which side of the fence he looked from, the approach was always the same.

"It really is one of the great rivalries in Irish sport and has been enhanced over the last few years when so many games were won by a point. Home or away, league, championship or challenge, Mayo-Galway rivalry is special. There's a respect there which underpins everything," he said.

Despite the closeness of the clashes between Connacht's 'Big Two', they haven't drawn since November 1997 when a league game finished level in Castlebar.

Mayo set out in pursuit of their first NFL (Div 1) title since 2001, when they beat Galway in the final. And yes, that was a one-point game too with Mayo edging home 0-13 to 0-12. Galway last won the title in 1981. They reached three finals in the last decade but lost to Mayo and Kerry (twice).

Galway v Mayo: As Close As It Gets

2009: Mayo 2-12 Galway 1-14 (Connacht final)

2009: Mayo 1-11 Galway 0-13 (NFL)

2008: Galway 2-12 Mayo 1-14 (Connacht final)

2008: Galway 2-9 Mayo 1-11 (NFL)

2007: Galway 2-10 Mayo 0-9 (Connacht quarter-final)

2007: Mayo 2-10 Galway 1-12 (NFL semi-final)

2006: Mayo 0-12 Galway 1-8 (Connacht final)

[Chimley]

It seems that we are not making progress under JOM and the defeat to Meath seems to have been forgotten by the management already. We are still persisting with half backs as corner backs, Trevor Howley at centre back and small men up front. When AOS came off against Meath, I don't think that we created a worthwhile attack afterwards because we had no presence left up front. There is no progression visible outside of the camp at least.
The background to this is that if you are a Connacht footballer under the age of 26 with a Connacht U21 medal in your arse pocket then you are a mayoman (with one or two possible exceptions). We have been in the past two all-Ireland minor finals too so the conveyor belt of talent coming through has never been as good. We should surely be looking forward to these exciting young players coming through, to at least continue their dominance of Connacht as a minimum and hopefully as a launching pad to an all-Ireland challenge yet here we are a week before the opening league match of the year afraid that we will be hammered out the gate by Galway. Something is wrong with that.

[GalwayBayBoy]

We should surely be looking forward to these exciting young players coming through, to at least continue their dominance of Connacht as a minimum and hopefully as a launching pad to an all-Ireland challenge yet here we are a week before the opening league match of the year afraid that we will be hammered out the gate by Galway. Something is wrong with that.

It doesn't really work like that though. Mayo could win 10 U-21 Connacht titles in a row but they'd still know on any given day Galway could beat them. And vice versa. Sure before that run between 02-07 Galway won 5 out of 6 Connacht minor titles yet Mayo won 4 out of 6 U-21 titles during the same period. That's just the way it goes.