Mayo Football and Hurling - Discussion pages

[Farrandeelin]

RUMOURS Syf. That Caff had to go due to work commitments. Not sure about the other 2 though.

[From the Bunker]

This is Horan's last year. Especially if we don't make the promised land! Everybody is on board from what i hear. Anyone who goes will be those who are let go. There is still a feeling among the group that they still can do it. Personally I think they have missed the boat(s). Hope I am wrong! Please prove me wrong!

[muppet]

This is Horan's last year. Especially if we don't make the promised land! Everybody is on board from what i hear. Anyone who goes will be those who are let go. There is still a feeling among the group that they still can do it. Personally I think they have missed the boat(s). Hope I am wrong! Please prove me wrong!

They can win it. They need a bit of luck with no injuries etc but they are well able to win it.

Mayo - Dublin again next year.

[Syferus]

This is Horan's last year. Especially if we don't make the promised land! Everybody is on board from what i hear. Anyone who goes will be those who are let go. There is still a feeling among the group that they still can do it. Personally I think they have missed the boat(s). Hope I am wrong! Please prove me wrong!

They can win it. They need a bit of luck with no injuries etc but they are well able to win it.

Mayo - Dublin again next year.

Right now with Donegal, Kildare, Cork and Kerry in varying degrees of disrepair and Tyrone's younger players showing a distinct lack of progression it seems the obvious pairing but there was clear signs that the Horan era was starting to chug before he committed to the extra year. The money issue is going to play some role in what Horan can actually do in 2014. Is there enough money for Buckley full stop, nevermind the extravagance of another trip to Miami?

For Mayo Horan is your best bet for 2014 but I can't see how he's going to return to the well for that level of intensity a fourth time in a row and not find it a little dry.

[larryin89]

Lol, more chance of pigs flying than Mayo winning the all Ireland next year. Will be hard pressed to retain the Nestor cup.

Another Mayo era will end and all we will have is  regret . We had our chance this year, never will we be presented with such a chance again, Dublin didn't show and we were just shy of useless, nothing to offer up front. Andy Moran, Alan Dillon, enda Varley, and a couple more are not going to win you an all Ireland , Moran and Dillon s best days are behind them, Varley doc Conroy etc are just not good enough to kick on and win for you on the big day.

Horan made the wrong choice, he should of stepped aside, he has done all he can and has done brilliant at that but he can do no more , it's mentally impossible to achieve it now. The severe pressure that will surround his last hurrah next year alon will be too much for this panel. Every game we play , will just be deemed unimportant till sept ( which I would bet my house on that we won't make it that far ) .

Horan ideally had paved the way for someone to step in and take the last step to glory but he refused and has made a grave mistake and sacrificed the progress of Mayo football .

Would not be one bit surprised if we were beat in the Hyde .

[Farrandeelin]

I thought that I was the pessimistic among us. And to a degree, I share larry's sentiment about going back to the well for more. Not mentally, but physically. The last 3 years must be the most intense training regimes etc from any point of view. Nothing to be spared etc. Yet we didn't win the damn thing. Last 8 at best next year.

[From the Bunker]

Donegal gave two big years into getting Sam and at the end of year two they got there. Look what happened to them last year in year three. Burned to sh!t. Mayo are onto year four and no Sam, god only knows what shape we will be in? Semi final can be achieved because we are better than most of the chasing bunch despite all the baggage! Resting players and not taking the League seriously did not work for Donegal, Would it work for us?

Another Mayo era will end and all we will have is  regret . We had our chance this year, never will we be presented with such a chance again, Dublin didn't show and we were just shy of useless, nothing to offer up front. Andy Moran, Alan Dillon, enda Varley, and a couple more are not going to win you an all Ireland , Moran and Dillon s best days are behind them, Varley doc Conroy etc are just not good enough to kick on and win for you on the big day.

I think Moran held his own in the final! Doherty could not be rated as he played little or nothing this year. But I do realise that others fell short in the final and that includes McLoughlin and O'Connor (for obvious reasons). I won't even speak about Freeman! Anyway you are right another collapse!

[moysider]

And I thought I was pessimistic.

I d be confident of another good run but would not trust us tactically to get over the line. I think we ve lost 2 because we were not smart enough rather than lacking technically.

Top players - and we have top players - will be rearing to go again after the break. Can t see hunger being a problem and the condition they are in I cant see them being shot to bits. Most are still improving physically and skillwise.

The bad feeling around FeeneyFreemangate may linger and it will be interesting to see if they figure in 2014 plans. Horan does not appear to be somebody to bury hatchets.

The panel might need a bit of freshening up but hard to see where it is going to from.

Hopefully we ll get injured players back. We got to AI final with 50% of the starting forwards injured or in recovery. Conroy and Doherty also injured for most of summer, McLoughlin off form too.

I think management will determine our fortunes next year. The players have been brilliant and wont go away.

[muppet]

In goal we have Hennelly or Clarke. No problems there.

We could start with a defence containing 4 All-Star players, plus 2 from Cunniffe, Barrett & Vaughan. If you move Higgins forward, and I would, the remaining 6 ain't half bad. Then there are capable subs as cover there although management don't appear to have much faith in them.

Midfield is at least 2 from Moran and the O'Sheas. But we could also do something different with Aidan in which case that leaves 4. Fit and on their game Cillian, Kevin and Andy would have to start in any team.

That would be 14 players with the problem of what system to play and where to play Keith and Aidan.

Then you would have Freeman, Conroy, Doc, Alan Dillon, Carolan and anything else that emerges over the winter fighting for a place.

Why would any Mayo supporter expect an exit before, or at, the last 8 with that lot?

[moysider]

In goal we have Hennelly or Clarke. No problems there.

We could start with a defence containing 4 All-Star players, plus 2 from Cunniffe, Barrett & Vaughan. If you move Higgins forward, and I would, the remaining 6 ain't half bad. Then there are capable subs as cover there although management don't appear to have much faith in them.

Midfield is at least 2 from Moran and the O'Sheas. But we could also do something different with Aidan in which case that leaves 4. Fit and on their game Cillian, Kevin and Andy would have to start in any team.

That would be 14 players with the problem of what system to play and where to play Keith and Aidan.

Then you would have Freeman, Conroy, Doc, Alan Dillon, Carolan and anything else that emerges over the winter fighting for a place.

Why would any Mayo supporter expect an exit before, or at, the last 8 with that lot?

If what I m listening to is typical of Mayo supporters' opinion then it s a management thing. People could not figure the Dillon, Freeman, Feeney, Higgins stuff.

[Lar Naparka]

And we used to lag Farr for being too pessimistic...
Right now, I've left him in my slipstream! 
I think Horan has done an exceptional job in taking the team that was humiliated by both Sligo and Longford in 2010 and made it into one of the top sides in the land.
But I can't see an All-Ireland in either James or his players.
I think he is the best Mayo manager I have seen and I've sure seen a lot but in times of serious pressure, he tends to take wrong options.
IMO, this happened in the 2012 final and again this year. There were other debateable incidents in matches prior to both finals but he seems to be gaffe-prone when the stakes are at their highest.
He certainly put the strongest side available to him on the field against Dublin and deserves great credit for getting them there in spectacular style but some of his decisions during the game were inexplicable to say the least.
However, his biggest problem was the lack of quality forwards. A look at the All-Star nominations and awards leaves one in no doubt about this.
We had 10 nominations in all but only one forward, COC, got listed. Dublin had the same number of nominations but six of their forwards were included.
In all honesty, I don't think we had another forward worthy of consideration for an award. Our year could have had a different ending if Andy and Cillian were fully fit going into the final but that's only supposition at this stage.
They are the only ones I'd consider to be All-Star material.
From the late 80s onwards, Mayo has produced plenty of good players from goal out to midfield but there has been damn few quality forwards in that time. For me, this has been the consistent trait of all teams of that era and I can't foresee any significant change as I look to next year.
There may well be a few changes to the side for next year's campaign but I don't see any major new finds ion the offing. Maybe I'm wrong but nothing I've heard to date suggests otherwise.
I can see us getting out of Connacht once more but even here, I'd be wary of Galway; they're a coming force and sooner or later, the Rossies will get their act together also. A provincial title is a probability alright but after that it's going to down to the luck of the draw. I can't see an All-Ireland in the present side.

Not for the first time, I'm hoping that I'll be proved wrong..

[moysider]

And we used to lag Farr for being too pessimistic...
Right now, I've left him in my slipstream! 
I think Horan has done an exceptional job in taking the team that was humiliated by both Sligo and Longford in 2010 and made it into one of the top sides in the land.
But I can't see an All-Ireland in either James or his players.
I think he is the best Mayo manager I have seen and I've sure seen a lot but in times of serious pressure, he tends to take wrong options.
IMO, this happened in the 2012 final and again this year. There were other debateable incidents in matches prior to both finals but he seems to be gaffe-prone when the stakes are at their highest.
He certainly put the strongest side available to him on the field against Dublin and deserves great credit for getting them there in spectacular style but some of his decisions during the game were inexplicable to say the least.
However, his biggest problem was the lack of quality forwards. A look at the All-Star nominations and awards leaves one in no doubt about this.We had 10 nominations in all but only one forward, COC, got listed. Dublin had the same number of nominations but six of their forwards were included.
In all honesty, I don't think we had another forward worthy of consideration for an award. Our year could have had a different ending if Andy and Cillian were fully fit going into the final but that's only supposition at this stage.
They are the only ones I'd consider to be All-Star material.
From the late 80s onwards, Mayo has produced plenty of good players from goal out to midfield but there has been damn few quality forwards in that time. For me, this has been the consistent trait of all teams of that era and I can't foresee any significant change as I look to next year.
There may well be a few changes to the side for next year's campaign but I don't see any major new finds ion the offing. Maybe I'm wrong but nothing I've heard to date suggests otherwise.
I can see us getting out of Connacht once more but even here, I'd be wary of Galway; they're a coming force and sooner or later, the Rossies will get their act together also. A provincial title is a probability alright but after that it's going to down to the luck of the draw. I can't see an All-Ireland in the present side.

Not for the first time, I'm hoping that I'll be proved wrong..

Two of the starting forwards v Dublin have been All -Stars. O Connor has been YPOTY twice and top scorer in this year's championship. McLoughlin should have got an All-Star last year. Freeman was also heading in the right direction.

Last year Donegal won with 2 1/2 forwards.

You mention our lack of quality forwards since the 80s compared to the defence and midfield and maybe you ve a point. I d argue that tactics/coaching has been the issue rather than quality individuals. In that time we ve had some of our best ever forwards like McDanger, Kevin O Neill and Horan himself. But some of those managers would not have won if they had Jinkin Joe, McDanger, Joe McGrath, Kevin O Neill, Tom Langan and Padraic Carney in their team.

[Lar Naparka]

And we used to lag Farr for being too pessimistic...
Right now, I've left him in my slipstream! 
I think Horan has done an exceptional job in taking the team that was humiliated by both Sligo and Longford in 2010 and made it into one of the top sides in the land.
But I can't see an All-Ireland in either James or his players.
I think he is the best Mayo manager I have seen and I've sure seen a lot but in times of serious pressure, he tends to take wrong options.
IMO, this happened in the 2012 final and again this year. There were other debateable incidents in matches prior to both finals but he seems to be gaffe-prone when the stakes are at their highest.
He certainly put the strongest side available to him on the field against Dublin and deserves great credit for getting them there in spectacular style but some of his decisions during the game were inexplicable to say the least.
However, his biggest problem was the lack of quality forwards. A look at the All-Star nominations and awards leaves one in no doubt about this.We had 10 nominations in all but only one forward, COC, got listed. Dublin had the same number of nominations but six of their forwards were included.
In all honesty, I don't think we had another forward worthy of consideration for an award. Our year could have had a different ending if Andy and Cillian were fully fit going into the final but that's only supposition at this stage.
They are the only ones I'd consider to be All-Star material.
From the late 80s onwards, Mayo has produced plenty of good players from goal out to midfield but there has been damn few quality forwards in that time. For me, this has been the consistent trait of all teams of that era and I can't foresee any significant change as I look to next year.
There may well be a few changes to the side for next year's campaign but I don't see any major new finds ion the offing. Maybe I'm wrong but nothing I've heard to date suggests otherwise.
I can see us getting out of Connacht once more but even here, I'd be wary of Galway; they're a coming force and sooner or later, the Rossies will get their act together also. A provincial title is a probability alright but after that it's going to down to the luck of the draw. I can't see an All-Ireland in the present side.

Not for the first time, I'm hoping that I'll be proved wrong..

Two of the starting forwards v Dublin have been All -Stars. O Connor has been YPOTY twice and top scorer in this year's championship. McLoughlin should have got an All-Star last year. Freeman was also heading in the right direction.

Last year Donegal won with 2 1/2 forwards.

You mention our lack of quality forwards since the 80s compared to the defence and midfield and maybe you ve a point. I d argue that tactics/coaching has been the issue rather than quality individuals. In that time we ve had some of our best ever forwards like McDanger, Kevin O Neill and Horan himself. But some of those managers would not have won if they had Jinkin Joe, McDanger, Joe McGrath, Kevin O Neill, Tom Langan and Padraic Carney in their team.

All good valid observations Moy but the fact remains that if we had a bit more scoring power up front, we could well be AI champions now.  No disrespect to Dublin intended but they were very vulnerable that day and we have only ourselves to blame for letting another chance slip out of our grasp.   
With about 15 mins to go, Dublin were just two points ahead with only 13 men capable of playing and still Mayo couldn't overtake them. Andy's goal was the only score from play in the entire second half.
Mayo's last score from play before that, was a point by the same player, around 50 mins beforehand.
50 friggin' minutes without a score from play! 
Apart from Andy, Keith Higgins was the only forward to register a score from play during the entire game. Four of the five substitutions were made in the forwards as Horan tried desperately to add some firepower up front. He wasn't altogether successful in his attempts to do so to put it mildly.
Now, I'm not suffering from delayed action trauma or the likes; the only benefit to be gained from dwelling on the past is that it may help to give some idea of what is likely to happen in the future.
I'm not nearly as pessimistic as Larry and I don't expect we'll lose in Connacht but I don't see Sam coming our way any time soon unless Horan can somehow strengthen the attack and he has limited scope here.
If Andy and Cillian manage to shake of the effects of their injuries, it would be a major step in the right direction but that's not to be taken for granted.

Andy, like Alan, is now around the 30 mark and both of them have a lot of mileage on their respective clocks. Time is not on their side. Indeed for a good few players and for Horan also, next year could be a gig in the last chance saloon.
I hope I'm totally wrong but right now, I'm in Farrandeeliin mood as I weigh up our chances for next year.

[Syferus]

Yer in a for a Hyding, lads.

Even if next year looks a little murky in the medium term Mayo are in a good place with some good prospsects in the positions of need coming through. The AIF complex has grown into a monster at this stage and it will take an excellent man-manager to get the best out of Mayo when they do reach the third Sunday again.

[moysider]

Yer in a for a Hyding, lads.

Even if next year looks a little murky in the medium term Mayo are in a good place with some good prospsects in the positions of need coming through. The AIF complex has grown into a monster at this stage and it will take an excellent man-manager to get the best out of Mayo when they do reach the third Sunday again.

What positions would they be Sy?
I honestly believe we need a tactician rather than a man-manager, whatever that is?