The Patronising Dublin Fan Thread

[sid waddell]

The standard of club football there seems low and the interest seems very low, I think about 1k attended a recent final, one of the ones Navan O'Mahony's won

2,600 it was, more than 1k but still very poor for a county final

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2015/10/26/omahonys-retain-keegan-cup/

[sid waddell]

Yiz are all jealous
Sore losers
Kildare should get a decent manager
Colm O'Rourke was basically pushing the Homer Simpson line - if something is too difficult, quit
Meath should concentrate

You've actually pretty much hit the nail on the head there

The loser's mentality on this board is quite frightening

As Pat Spillane said a few years ago, winners worry about winning, losers worry about winners

[Milltown Row2]

So the financial trappings (would like a link to all that) is what's making Dublin so much better?

To use Man City as an example, they should never lose a title or a match, given their financial clout

It's not the same thing MR2. Every person who features in 20 games for City will retire a multimillionaire, regardless of what happens past the current season. After a couple of seasons, their alternative life away from football is one where they never have to lift a hand again, if that way inclined, or one in which they can afford to invest heavily in anything that takes their fancy. So if they land a few major trophies, and every trapping imaginable to fall back upon, it takes a great man manager, to keep everyone focused and motivated or to make quick changes when he cannot  (which is why there are so few great football managers).

Dublin players are enjoying the lifestyle of a professional athlete. They'll never get rich from it, like they could in other sports, but the current mechanisms provide the opportunity to live very comfortably while concentrating on sport. But there is no continuity available. if they stop playing, or lose their place on the panel, they will need to do something else, and probably work bloody hard, to achieve a similar lifestyle.

Non of the Dublin players are better because of Dublin being financially better than the rest. They are better because of what they do on the pitch, end off.

I'm bored of the gurning. They have a bigger pick, have always had a bigger pick, they have a bigger pick in hurling also, they won't be winning any Liam McCarthys soon.

They are blessed by being based in Dublin, are you complaining about their location? That's just the way it is.

Playing better football is down to a few factors.

Training, strength conditioning, dietary, physio's, tactics, commitment, attitude. Having the use of Croke or the population has always been available to them.

Whatever they have done in mobilising the GAA fraternity in Dublin needs to be copied.

At the start of Dublin's rise I would have labelled them gym bunny's, physically big strong mobile, what they lacked was craft skill tactics, they've sharpened up those areas.

But money can't buy any of that, they are able to get their best players playing for the county. I can't remember Antrim (as an example) ever having all their best players available, I don't know what it's like for other counties.

Dividing Dublin into two is stupid, every All Ireland won after that split would be viewed with an question mark

[Rossfan]

The All Ireland inter Co SFC used to be the most successful sporting competition in Ireland.
Now that it's the preserve of 1 County it is fast becoming an irrelevance like the Leinster SFC has become.
If that's what GAA officialdom and its mealy mouthed followers want then fine
Of ye go but "include me out".

[Milltown Row2]

The All Ireland inter Co SFC used to be the most successful sporting competition in Ireland.
Now that it's the preserve of 1 County it is fast becoming an irrelevance like the Leinster SFC has become.
If that's what GAA officialdom and its mealy mouthed followers want then fine
Of ye go but "include me out".

Christ you are pathetic...

Used to be? Was it only good when Dublin didn't win? Was Kerry's domination an irrelevance in Munster? Cavan have 40 Ulster titles they dominated for years. Back in the day, things change, sitting on your hole and gurning about it won't bring about change.

If you are part of a club and a member you can put in proposals towards change, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram put forward some of your ideas, rest assured there won't be one county asking to split Dublin.

equal funding is the way, but giving Leitrim the same money as Dublin seems a bit ott

[dublin7]

Yiz are all jealous
Sore losers
Kildare should get a decent manager
Colm O'Rourke was basically pushing the Homer Simpson line - if something is too difficult, quit
Meath should concentrate

You've actually pretty much hit the nail on the head there

The loser's mentality on this board is quite frightening

As Pat Spillane said a few years ago, winners worry about winning, losers worry about winners

Wexford are an example of a county getting their act together. For years they were whipping boys for Kilkenny in the Leinster championship and were going nowhere. The county board put in structures to improve underage hurling in the county and got former county players involved in the plan.

They did this 5/6 years ago and are now seeing the benefits of this. For alot of posters here that kind of long term planning would take too long and would require initiative and hard work from county. Instead it's all about weakening Dublin as being better than everyone else is somehow unfair

[seafoid]

How these sporting monopolies usually end: the influence of the key individuals involved in creating the dominance begin to wane.

It's usually down to advancing years catching up on the players, and then one of the teams who've patiently waited for things to unravel a little, puts in a tremendous shift to the tilt the balance.

The other major factor is a tilt in hunger, desire, ambition. So younger players coming in will initially enjoy the benefits of learning just what it takes, from masters of the trade, and thrive in the environment provided to them. The benefits are instantaneous, meaning all their career ambitions tend to be achieved at an early age. It then requires a genuinely innate personal greed to sustain a complete focus in athletic pursuit, once those goals have been achieved. Moreso again in a team environment, where the vast majority of players would have to share the same greed. Which is why a 5-in-a-row doesn't happen very often, even if the age profile suggests it can.

As such the retirements of Flynn, Brogan, Connolly, McCaffrey, McAuley and O'Sullivan, plus the advancing years of Cooper, McMahon, Fitzsimmons and Andrews, along with Gavin stepping down, should at least have opened up a transition period - if not quite the end.

But all these changes have only made Dublin stronger. They are not  just sustaining performance levels, they are advancing them.

So trying to understand how this is possible, should really focus on why it's even physiologically possible, in an amateur sport.

And for me, the "why?" is directly related to a Dublin infrastructure - some of it official, but most of it associated trappings - that has been created, which provides players with sufficient enough commercial rewards, that a fear of losing those rewards vastly trumps the usually mitigating emotions of boredom and fulfilled ambition.

Put simply, the life afforded to Dublin county players must be a substantially more attractive and financially rewarding life, than the lives these players otherwise would lead.

The result is that Dublin play absolutely breathtaking, almost flawless football.

Sport without flaws is a wonderful thing to experience occasionally. You can define moments in your life around seeing sporting perfection being achieved.

But when experienced regularly, sporting perfection is dull. There's no other word for it. Dull.

—-

The good news is that eventually Dublin will end up eating itself; their dominance will become so utterly frustrating and predictable, that media exposure will dry up, and sponsors will be less proactive about coughing up the rewards. And when most of the starting team have to keep an eye not just on their real job, but their long term careers too, then some semblance of normality will return.

The bad news is this process is unlikely to happen before 10 in a row.

Enjoy your success Dubs. I marvel at how simply you make the game look. But it's impossible to look forward to a championship game involving your county.

https://youtu.be/lsO_SlA7E8k

[Rossfan]

The All Ireland inter Co SFC used to be the most successful sporting competition in Ireland.
Now that it's the preserve of 1 County it is fast becoming an irrelevance like the Leinster SFC has become.
If that's what GAA officialdom and its mealy mouthed followers want then fine
Of ye go but "include me out".

Christ you are pathetic...

Used to be? Was it only good when Dublin didn't win? Was Kerry's domination an irrelevance in Munster? Cavan have 40 Ulster titles they dominated for years. Back in the day, things change, sitting on your hole and gurning about it won't bring about change.

If you are part of a club and a member you can put in proposals towards change, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram put forward some of your ideas, rest assured there won't be one county asking to split Dublin.

equal funding is the way, but giving Leitrim the same money as Dublin seems a bit ott

Pathetic is Antrim being the worst County football team in Ulster.
I suspect any County Convention having a motion to split Dublin will see a phone call coming from Croke Park..."Remember that oul grant or that debt we bailed ye out of..."

[Milltown Row2]

The All Ireland inter Co SFC used to be the most successful sporting competition in Ireland.
Now that it's the preserve of 1 County it is fast becoming an irrelevance like the Leinster SFC has become.
If that's what GAA officialdom and its mealy mouthed followers want then fine
Of ye go but "include me out".

Christ you are pathetic...

Used to be? Was it only good when Dublin didn't win? Was Kerry's domination an irrelevance in Munster? Cavan have 40 Ulster titles they dominated for years. Back in the day, things change, sitting on your hole and gurning about it won't bring about change.

If you are part of a club and a member you can put in proposals towards change, instead of throwing your toys out of the pram put forward some of your ideas, rest assured there won't be one county asking to split Dublin.

equal funding is the way, but giving Leitrim the same money as Dublin seems a bit ott

Pathetic is Antrim being the worst County football team in Ulster.
I suspect any County Convention having a motion to split Dublin will see a phone call coming from Croke Park..."Remember that oul grant or that debt we bailed ye out of..."

We are a hurling county sure...

But if it makes you feel better about the state of your own county football and the state of football in general that's fine 

So to go with my question again, why don't you do something about it? I feel that you've not kicked a ball before and not actually associated with a club

[thejuice]

There was a Dublin lad on Facebook telling me that the Dubs are just hungrier and train harder than everyone else because he knows a lad who would know. I asked him to name one thing he knew that other counties weren't currently doing that could close the gap. He said he didn't know but that evidence from what was on the pitch was that they weren't trying hard enough.

In Meath's case I would suggest getting a manager who knows what he's doing

Meath's record at club level is abysmal, their record at underage level in this century is very poor

I'd have a look at why that is

How many Leinster titles have Meath teams won? How many Leinster finals have Meath teams even reached?

Meath have big suburban population centres - Ashbourne, Dunboyne, Ratoath, Dunshaughlin, Trim and Navan obviously - young populations

It's a wealthy county with a massive football tradition

If I was Kildare, I'd approach Jim Gavin, he's only up the road in Clondalkin, probably quicker for him to get to Newbridge than to get to Parnell Park

We have the most successful Meath manager in the last 20 years. Anyone else you can name that could do a better job. We have ex pro rugby players doing S&C and even that has brought us on quite a bit from what I can see.

Achievements at club level in Leinster and the All Ireland haven't had much reflection on inter county success in Meath. This is something that has been talked to death in the county but perhaps it reflects upon the fact that we don't have one strong club that dominates like Crossmaglen, Corafin or Dr Crokes.

Our under achievement at underage is well documented and measures to address this have been on going in the county for well over a decade. There are lads in the panel now who have all beaten Dublin at minor level and we've done it again recently. Still miles behind at senior level.

I can accept the fact that Dublin are better than us in many factors and they have a super team for sure but for someone to say we aren't trying is what's sickening to hear when you know all that is being done across the county and the funding that's gone into it, which has come from grassroots up a lot of it, is far beyond what I think is reasonable for an amateur sport and yet still to be so far off Dublin is so disheartening.

I honestly don't know what is the fairest way to redress the imbalance, but even those who remember dominant Kerry teams know that they didn't blow everyone out the gate. This is something else altogether if you are on your way to a 6th All Ireland in a row and you win every game by more than 10 points.

our set up is light years ahead of what it was during the glory years. To be so many years working on improving ourselves to get back to the top 4 or 5 teams and to be so easily dismissed makes you question it all. Perhaps this was a long time coming but it was inevitable and perhaps most likely that Dublin would be the team to do it based on geography and demographics.

[sid waddell]

We have the most successful Meath manager in the last 20 years. Anyone else you can name that could do a better job. We have ex pro rugby players doing S&C and even that has brought us on quite a bit from what I can see.

Achievements at club level in Leinster and the All Ireland haven't had much reflection on inter county success in Meath. This is something that has been talked to death in the county but perhaps it reflects upon the fact that we don't have one strong club that dominates like Crossmaglen, Corafin or Dr Crokes.

Our under achievement at underage is well documented and measures to address this have been on going in the county for well over a decade. There are lads in the panel now who have all beaten Dublin at minor level and we've done it again recently. Still miles behind at senior level.

I can accept the fact that Dublin are better than us in many factors and they have a super team for sure but for someone to say we aren't trying is what's sickening to hear when you know all that is being done across the county and the funding that's gone into it, which has come from grassroots up a lot of it, is far beyond what I think is reasonable for an amateur sport and yet still to be so far off Dublin is so disheartening.

I honestly don't know what is the fairest way to redress the imbalance, but even those who remember dominant Kerry teams know that they didn't blow everyone out the gate. This is something else altogether if you are on your way to a 6th All Ireland in a row and you win every game by more than 10 points.

our set up is light years ahead of what it was during the glory years. To be so many years working on improving ourselves to get back to the top 4 or 5 teams and to be so easily dismissed makes you question it all. Perhaps this was a long time coming but it was inevitable and perhaps most likely that Dublin would be the team to do it based on geography and demographics.

McEntee is club standard, he may be able to get to certain level of organisation which may be miles ahead of what it was 20 years ago - but the top counties have galloped ahead to much greater degree than that - and he's miles off the top standard

I think Malachy O'Rourke would be a very good fit for Meath, the sort of position Monaghan were in when he came in is similar to the position Meath are in at the moment, he is excellent at improving teams and players

In terms of club, all you ask is that the Meath champions be competitive in Leinster, but that hasn't been the case for a long time

Mayo's strength stems from their underage set up and the strength of their club scenes, these have been neglected in Meath

I suspect Meath are one of those counties who had success with an old proper school set up with Boylan and the folk memory of that took a long time to wear off - the Meath way of doing things

Meath suddenly got left behind in 2002 when the Ulster counties changed the game

Offaly have been in a similar predicament for many years, they had a particular image of themselves as a GAA county, they were seduced by the legend of Seamus Darby, and mavericks like John Troy just showing up and doing their thing, and Johnny Pilkington going down the pub for three pints the night before All-Ireland finals - which is not their only problem but it has been a problem I think

Down, Derry and Galway fell behind for similar reasons

[seafoid]

We have the most successful Meath manager in the last 20 years. Anyone else you can name that could do a better job. We have ex pro rugby players doing S&C and even that has brought us on quite a bit from what I can see.

Achievements at club level in Leinster and the All Ireland haven't had much reflection on inter county success in Meath. This is something that has been talked to death in the county but perhaps it reflects upon the fact that we don't have one strong club that dominates like Crossmaglen, Corafin or Dr Crokes.

Our under achievement at underage is well documented and measures to address this have been on going in the county for well over a decade. There are lads in the panel now who have all beaten Dublin at minor level and we've done it again recently. Still miles behind at senior level.

I can accept the fact that Dublin are better than us in many factors and they have a super team for sure but for someone to say we aren't trying is what's sickening to hear when you know all that is being done across the county and the funding that's gone into it, which has come from grassroots up a lot of it, is far beyond what I think is reasonable for an amateur sport and yet still to be so far off Dublin is so disheartening.

I honestly don't know what is the fairest way to redress the imbalance, but even those who remember dominant Kerry teams know that they didn't blow everyone out the gate. This is something else altogether if you are on your way to a 6th All Ireland in a row and you win every game by more than 10 points.

our set up is light years ahead of what it was during the glory years. To be so many years working on improving ourselves to get back to the top 4 or 5 teams and to be so easily dismissed makes you question it all. Perhaps this was a long time coming but it was inevitable and perhaps most likely that Dublin would be the team to do it based on geography and demographics.

McEntee is club standard, he may be able to get to certain level of organisation which may be miles ahead of what it was 20 years ago - but the top counties have galloped ahead to much greater degree than that - and he's miles off the top standard

I think Malachy O'Rourke would be a very good fit for Meath, the sort of position Monaghan were in when he came in is similar to the position Meath are in at the moment, he is excellent at improving teams and players

In terms of club, all you ask is that the Meath champions be competitive in Leinster, but that hasn't been the case for a long time

Mayo's strength stems from their underage set up and the strength of their club scenes, these have been neglected in Meath

I suspect Meath are one of those counties who had success with an old proper school set up with Boylan and the folk memory of that took a long time to wear off - the Meath way of doing things

Meath suddenly got left behind in 2002 when the Ulster counties changed the game

Offaly have been in a similar predicament for many years, they had a particular image of themselves as a GAA county, they were seduced by the legend of Seamus Darby, and mavericks like John Troy just showing up and doing their thing, and Johnny Pilkington going down the pub for three pints the night before All-Ireland finals - which is not their only problem but it has been a problem I think

Down, Derry and Galway fell behind for similar reasons

"Down, Derry and Galway fell behind for similar reasons"

Write 2 pages on it, Sid


There is a cycle of failure and success for second line teams such as Down, Meath , Galway, Cork etc.

They can go for 20 years without winning and then find a team that goes all.the way.

The easiest way to build a winning team is to graft young players onto older winners/ players with experience. Donegal have been using this approach. Meath did this in 96.

It is much harder to start from.nothing. Meath and Galway are doing this. Down did it in 91.

Wo Helden nicht vergessen werden kommen neue Helden is German. It means that where winners are remembered new ones will emerge.

So when Down have a decent team they can win the All Ireland.

Normally a top notch second line team can beat the first line teams but if the first line team is exceptional they may have to wait

The other feature of the All Iteland is teams learning their stuff before winning the prize.

Eg Cork 2007-10.

Under normal circumstances, Tyrone and Mayo would probably have won Sam in the last decade. Dublin would have faded away at some point.  Meath or Kildare would have taken over in Leinster. But Japanese knotweed is in charge and there is no point in castigating counties for not having enough access to sunlight.

[J70]

Its hard to debate something when the various parties can't even agree what the problem is.

To me, this is simply an issue of Dublin finally getting their shit together and making their massive potential pool of talent count. When you have one third of the population of the country, you SHOULD be utterly dominating. Its to Dublin GAA's credit that they have finally arrived at this point after the decades of failure.

But it also makes the solution fairly simple now that they have finally started reaching their potential and sustaining that level. A split, so that the overwhelming advantage in terms of numbers that is driving this is at least somewhat mitigated. There's nothing much can be done about the convenience of being a Dublin player or fan, apart from maybe moving their AI semi-final or League Final to Thurles or Clones or wherever.

With a population pick no longer 5-10 times that of most of their rivals, THEN you can prattle on about organization and dedication. You can be as organized, dedicated and well-coached as you like, but if you don't have the same talented athletes to draw from, there's not much you can do when you come up against someone like Dublin.

The other counties are always going to be on some form of boom-bust cycle given their picks, no matter how organized and dedicated they are.

[6th sam]

Its hard to debate something when the various parties can't even agree what the problem is.

To me, this is simply an issue of Dublin finally getting their shit together and making their massive potential pool of talent count. When you have one third of the population of the country, you SHOULD be utterly dominating. Its to Dublin GAA's credit that they have finally arrived at this point after the decades of failure.

But it also makes the solution fairly simple now that they have finally started reaching their potential and sustaining that level. A split, so that the overwhelming advantage in terms of numbers that is driving this is at least somewhat mitigated. There's nothing much can be done about the convenience of being a Dublin player or fan, apart from maybe moving their AI semi-final or League Final to Thurles or Clones or wherever.

With a population pick no longer 5-10 times that of most of their rivals, THEN you can prattle on about organization and dedication. You can be as organized, dedicated and well-coached as you like, but if you don't have the same talented athletes to draw from, there's not much you can do when you come up against someone like Dublin.

The other counties are always going to be on some form of boom-bust cycle given their picks, no matter how organized and dedicated they are.

Splitting Dublin on the basis of their massive population would potentially not only be great for the association but great for Dublin . The status quo will eventually destroy Dublin. The brilliant development of quality players in Dublin, will
Mean that loads of great players will have little chance of playing at the top level. Dublin's unprecedented dominance has become boring for non-Dubs , but also fir Dubs,
Dublin , correctly, argued for extra central funding, on the basis of overall GAA benefit. The overall GAA benefit of splitting Dublin can now also be argued. This has serious potential to develop the GAA in the capital ....more county players, novel pairings, more matches.
The status quo makes no sense for AI championship but particularly no sense for GAA in the capital

[sid waddell]

Its hard to debate something when the various parties can't even agree what the problem is.

To me, this is simply an issue of Dublin finally getting their shit together and making their massive potential pool of talent count. When you have one third of the population of the country, you SHOULD be utterly dominating. Its to Dublin GAA's credit that they have finally arrived at this point after the decades of failure.

But it also makes the solution fairly simple now that they have finally started reaching their potential and sustaining that level. A split, so that the overwhelming advantage in terms of numbers that is driving this is at least somewhat mitigated. There's nothing much can be done about the convenience of being a Dublin player or fan, apart from maybe moving their AI semi-final or League Final to Thurles or Clones or wherever.

With a population pick no longer 5-10 times that of most of their rivals, THEN you can prattle on about organization and dedication. You can be as organized, dedicated and well-coached as you like, but if you don't have the same talented athletes to draw from, there's not much you can do when you come up against someone like Dublin.

The other counties are always going to be on some form of boom-bust cycle given their picks, no matter how organized and dedicated they are.

Splitting Dublin on the basis of their massive population would potentially not only be great for the association but great for Dublin . The status quo will eventually destroy Dublin. The brilliant development of quality players in Dublin, will
Mean that loads of great players will have little chance of playing at the top level. Dublin's unprecedented dominance has become boring for non-Dubs , but also fir Dubs,
Dublin , correctly, argued for extra central funding, on the basis of overall GAA benefit. The overall GAA benefit of splitting Dublin can now also be argued. This has serious potential to develop the GAA in the capital ....more county players, novel pairings, more matches.
The status quo makes no sense for AI championship but particularly no sense for GAA in the capital

That's not how people in Dublin see it

The only way a split could happen is if it becomes so inevitable that there is obviously no alternative - like a united Ireland situation becoming inevitable in reverse - say, if Dublin win 20 All-Irelands in a row and nobody can come within 10 or 15 points of them in a final for a decade

We are nowhere near that and we are highly unlikely to ever get to that point and there are loads of common sense measures that can be undertaken to enhance a competitive championship before then

If you tried to force a split on Dublin before that of sort case scenario arrives, it would cause the biggest civil war Irish sport has ever seen, it would be like 100 Saipans, and it would probably destroy GAA in Dublin, for many years at least

People have no idea what they're talking about here in relation to this