Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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muppet

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 04:37:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Nally your comic efforts are genuinely funny.
Your arrogance is genuinely as bad as always.

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
But of course you don't engage on any point.
Sorry, I was busy reading some of your recent 'contributions' to the thread, what was that you were saying about hypocrisy?

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Everything is everyone else's fault, but SF, who can do no wrong, can fix everything for everybody. You may be surprised but there are people who are sceptical.
We were talking about the economic shambles of the 26 counties and the utter torture that recent governments have been putting/are continuing to put people through. Blame lies fairly and squarely with FF/FG/Lab. As for "SF can do no wrong", I've criticised them many times on this board.

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:22:01 PM
Aside from the populist nonsense, one of the biggest problems is the hypocrisy. For example the behaviour over the recent death of a young Gárda contrasts sharply with the Gerry McCabe case.
Populist nonsense? Like Leo's lies about "not a cent"? Or like Enda's "protecting and defending" Roscommon County Hospital? Oh, and if you're going to dig up a victim's name to make cheap shots, at least spell his name correctly.

'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
MWWSI 2017

Nally Stand

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

muppet

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.

Brits killing Irish is hideous, but still not as bad as people pretending to fight for Ireland killing Irish people.
MWWSI 2017

Nally Stand

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.

Brits killing Irish is hideous, but still not as bad as people pretending to fight for Ireland killing Irish people.
Hideous, but seemingly tolerable south of the border. Well, since 1921 anyway.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

muppet

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.

Brits killing Irish is hideous, but still not as bad as people pretending to fight for Ireland killing Irish people.
Hideous, but seemingly tolerable south of the border. Well, since 1921 anyway.

You ignored the bit about Irish people shooting Irish people. No problem with that.
MWWSI 2017

Nally Stand

#485
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:24:20 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 05:15:48 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
'Dig up'? You are having a laugh. This is SF hypocrisy in a nutshell. You attack me for misspelling his name. SF however will not condemn those who shot him dead. Which do you think is more damaging? There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
I'm not having a laugh at all. Just making a nod to the fact that when SF are spoken about in the 26 counties, at least one of the (seemingly) only two victims of the troubles will inevitably be dug up, and nine times out of ten, one of them will not even have their name spelt correctly by those that claim to care so much. As for it not being condemned, to quote Martin McGuinness "I unreservedly condemned the murder of Jerry McCabe."

Quote from: muppet on January 28, 2013, 04:47:51 PM
There are many others that need to be dug up as well but SF would rather we forgot about them.
Hypocritical, you say? The only time anyone in the south wants to dig up a few victims, is where SF are concerned. Could many of the people who gleefully dig up the usual two names, also name one person killed in the Dublin/Monaghan bombs? Nah. They're not interested enough. I'm sure when Queen Lizzy came over you weren't talking then about the need for victims names to be dug up. 'The past is the past' you'd have been saying.

Brits killing Irish is hideous, but still not as bad as people pretending to fight for Ireland killing Irish people.
Hideous, but seemingly tolerable south of the border. Well, since 1921 anyway.

You ignored the bit about Irish people shooting Irish people. No problem with that.

Well it seems that was tolerable too. Well, before 1921 anyway.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

muppet

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 05:31:40 PM
Well it seems that was tolerable too. Well, before 1921 anyway.

SF seems to think so. I wouldn't.

As for the Dublin/Monaghan bombers, if people connected to the scum behind that were looking for my vote, I'd be demanding answers from them too.
MWWSI 2017

stibhan

Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on January 28, 2013, 04:37:01 PM
Quote from: stibhan on January 28, 2013, 12:28:14 PM
Of course Sinn Féin represent two different things on each side of the border - ever since they decided to stand for elections and take their seats in both jurisdictions, they have had to formulate different strategies for each state because of the peculiar situation in which the north and south found themselves in. The fact that modern provisional Sinn Féin was founded in Belfast, and that the Official IRA from whom they split controlled major state media and broadcast institutions in the 1970's South had a large impact on their public and political image.

That is outwith the fact that they already had a solid nationalist base in the north as opposed to a more grass-roots, underground base in the south. The reality is that if you aren't actively campaigning for election and representation in a state, and instead are repudiating the means of representation, then unless there is a significant social factor to foster solidarity with your voters (Catholics being second class citizens in the north) you will find it difficult to retain interest.

Despite these differences, they still retain a more coherent political strategy in terms of the north than any other party you'd care to name in the south.

As a North of Ireland party I'd expect SF to have some sort of policy towards the North. They are as out of place in the politics of The Republic as the British Conservative Party or French Gaulists.

That is a ridiculous comparison, and I'm not entirely sure how you see a lack of policy in Sinn Féin with regards the 6 counties?

As I see it, their policy 'towards' the north is dictated by the day-to-day situations they find themselves in as they govern up there. They have a pragmatic attitude towards the short-term improvement of a) public services; b) community and political relations; c) equality in all aspects of culture & society; and d) job creation. Their long-term solution is no secret, and this seems to be fairly well reflected in Adams' call for a border poll last weekend.

armaghniac

QuoteAs I see it, their policy 'towards' the north is dictated by the day-to-day situations they find themselves in as they govern up there. They have a pragmatic attitude towards the short-term improvement of a) public services; b) community and political relations; c) equality in all aspects of culture & society; and d) job creation. Their long-term solution is no secret, and this seems to be fairly well reflected in Adams' call for a border poll last weekend

In order for Adams border poll to work, then public expenditure in NI must be reduced and tax income must be increased.
What policies (notwithstanding any lack of fiscal control) do SF have to
- reduce NI public expenditure?
- increase NI tax take?
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

muppet

All bickering aside, this shooting in Louth could be an opportunity to do something positive.

It is time to move for a cross-border policing arrangement. This would lead to greater pooling of resources and an end to thugs hiding behind the notional border. Nationalists/Republicans would surely be all for it, with the exception of the Dissidents and other criminals. The apprehension of Dissidents in turn could be used to persuade Unionists of the value of such an agreement.

Will any party step up?
MWWSI 2017

armaghniac

Re the All Ireland poll and interesing post on Politics.ie. It seems that the NI tickers on the census form probably vote nationalist.
------------------------------------
I analysed the census data of 2011 and correlated it with the NI election results to get a more accurate breakdown of the figures specifically in relation to the "northern Irish only" percentage, these are the areas i have completed so far. i think the figures demonstrate that practically all of the people who choose the "northern irish only" option must come exclusively from the nationalist catholic demographic as it is the only way that the numbers fit with the election results on the other side the "british only" and "british and NI" or "british and irish" etc options correlate with the entire protestant community and fits perfectly into the election results. Also the term irish/northern irish is present to a not insignificant degree in the the total perentage generated for the protestant communty.

Newry and Morne
79.4% catholic
18% protestant
100%= 29 seats
Nationalist = 23 seats =79.3%
Unionist = 5 seats = 17.2%

census 2011
Irish only 49.75% Irish and northern Irish only (I+NI) 1.74% and northern Irish (NI) only 23.1% =74.59%
british only 16.87 + British and NI (B+NI) only 2.11= 18.98%


Down district Council
62.5% catholic
32.1% protestant
seats 23
Nationalist seats= 14 = 60.86 %
Unionist seats = 6 = 28.57%

census 2011
British only = 33.06% + british and NI only 4.27% = 37.33%
Irish only 28.22% , NI only 26.98%, I+NI 1.37 = 56.57 %


Dungannon and South tyrone
Catholic 64.1%
Protestant 33%
22 seats
Nationalist = 12 = 54.54%
Unionist 10= 45.45%

Census 2011
Irish only 35.68 % I+ NI only = 1.32%, NI only = 21.96% = 58.96%
British only 26.51%,, B+NI only 3.06%, B+NI+I= 0.55%= 30.12%

Ballymena
Catholic 22.6%
Protestant 71.4%
seats 24
Nationalist = 4 = 16.6%
Unionist = 16= 66.6%

Census 2011
British only = 57.87% + british and NI only= 8.96% = 66.83%
Irish only= 8.81% + I=NI only = 0.58%, NI only 17.2%= 26.59%


Fermanagh District Council

Catholic 59.2%
Protestant 37.8%
seats 23
Nationalist = 13 = 56.52%
Unionist =10= 43.4%

Census 2011
Irish only = 33.39 % , I+NI only = 1.12%, NI only = 23.94%= 58.45%
British only 31.92 %, British + NI =3.7% = 35.62%

Coleraine
Catholic 28%
Protestant 65.3
seats 22
Unionist =14 = 63.6%
Nationalist = 5 = 22.72%

census 2011

british only 51.43 + B+NI only = 8.22 + B=I + NI =1.27 = 60.92%
Irish only = 11.47, NI only 21.03, I+NI = .76 = 33.26%

Armagh City

48.4% catholic
48% protestant
seats 22
nationalist = 11 = 50%
unionist =11 = 50%

census 2011

british only 37.68% , British and Ni only 5.17%, B+I+NI =0.65%= 43.5%
Irish only = 29.91%, NI only 20.16%, I+NI=0.93% = 51.1%


Strabane

Catholic 64.9%
Protestant 33.7%
seats 14
Nationalist= 9= 64.28
Unionist = 5= 35.7%

census 2011
Irish only 36.81%, NI only, 26.55%, I+NI only= 1.25= 64.61%
british only 28.41%, B+NI only= 3.37%, B+I+NI =0.47% = 32.25%



Magherfelt District

Catholic 66%
Protestant 31.5%
seats = 16
Nationalist = 11 = 68.75%
Unionist= 5 = 31.25%

Census
Irish only = 39.31%, NI only= 23.94%, I+NI only 1.88= 65.13%
british only = 26.74%, B+NI = 3.27%, B+I+NI=0.5%= 30.51%
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

LeoMc

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 25, 2013, 03:13:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 24, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 24, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
I have to agree with you there. If this poll is about starting a debate then fine. But as things stand there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a majority of nationalists let alone an overall majority voting for a united Ireland. Before that happens we need to know what this unified state is going to look like. Listen to Conal McDevitt of the SDLP, he keeps reiterating that the debate needs to take place among nationalist first and formost.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are Conal McDevitt.
And I know who you are! #keep her lit!

I would be disappointed if you were right.

Applesisapples

Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?

Nally Stand

Quote from: LeoMc on January 29, 2013, 09:00:35 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 25, 2013, 03:13:57 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 24, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 24, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 23, 2013, 11:53:05 PM
Disappointed in Alex Maskey who didn't do Sinn Fein any favours trying to sell a UI to unionists. Mind you Arlene was equally as clueless. Didn't know if she was coming or going but that the DUP all over.
I have to agree with you there. If this poll is about starting a debate then fine. But as things stand there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of a majority of nationalists let alone an overall majority voting for a united Ireland. Before that happens we need to know what this unified state is going to look like. Listen to Conal McDevitt of the SDLP, he keeps reiterating that the debate needs to take place among nationalist first and formost.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are Conal McDevitt.
And I know who you are! #keep her lit!

I would be disappointed if you were right.

Fear not, though I am from the same part of the world. Where the sun always shines!
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Nally Stand

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 29, 2013, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on January 28, 2013, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on January 28, 2013, 03:18:19 PM
Would they be implementing Tory cuts as part of a British administration then?

Well last I checked the Good Friday Agreement was being implemented alright, and I'm unaware of Ireland having been re-united overnight. As I mentioned earlier, the administration you speak of has no fiscal sovereignty.
So Sinn Fein have settled for British Rule then?
I remember people discussing this very question alright. Back in 1998.

Given that you are someone who believes Marian Price is not being interned but rather is being "illegally detained"  (???), and that you seem to believe these are somehow different, then I'll just let you believe whatever your logic tells you, if it makes you happy.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore