Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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Maguire01

Quote from: lawnseed on January 25, 2013, 07:23:55 PM
its worth remembering that while we are have this discussion on the sinn fein thread that sinn fein are not the only party trying to unite this island. so where are the stoops, the blueshirts, irish labour and fianna fail? the majority of political parties on this island "claim" to be republican. why aren't they also calling for a referendum and trying to work toward a united ireland. its hardly credible to criticize sinn fein for doing exactly what they say they re going to do in every election they contest
Apart from the SDLP's reference to a border poll in their latest manifesto - an ill-advised response to SF's manifesto - show us where FF, FG or Labour have called for this in their recent manifestos.

Whilst it's an aspiration for many, I imagine it's a current priority for few.

lawnseed

Quote from: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:19:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
what maskey should have said 1. the health service thing.. we here in norn iron send our heart patients to dublin for surgery.
And if Arlene had been on her toes, she could have responded that that was proof that you don't need political unification to have co-operation, where it's clearly beneficial.

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
3. as has been said in a united ireland the Unionists would probably end up running the place because they'd end up holding the balance of power. that has to better than sitting in Parliament at nordie question time talking to the empty seats.
That argument is unlikely to hold any water for Unionists. Would SF be convinced on the union if they held the balance of power at Westminster?
its the same doctor maguire.. he sees you in belfast, recomends you for surgery, then meets you in dublin and does the operation ::)
as i said the level of free health care in any country is set by the government in power. re cuba.



A coward dies a thousand deaths a soldier only dies once

muppet

Quote from: lawnseed on January 25, 2013, 07:23:55 PM
its worth remembering that while we are have this discussion on the sinn fein thread that sinn fein are not the only party trying to unite this island. so where are the stoops, the blueshirts, irish labour and fianna fail? the majority of political parties on this island "claim" to be republican. why aren't they also calling for a referendum and trying to work toward a united ireland. its hardly credible to criticize sinn fein for doing exactly what they say they re going to do in every election they contest

In multi-party systems the parties rarely all agree on the same thing.
MWWSI 2017

Maguire01

Quote from: lawnseed on January 25, 2013, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:19:40 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
what maskey should have said 1. the health service thing.. we here in norn iron send our heart patients to dublin for surgery.
And if Arlene had been on her toes, she could have responded that that was proof that you don't need political unification to have co-operation, where it's clearly beneficial.

Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
3. as has been said in a united ireland the Unionists would probably end up running the place because they'd end up holding the balance of power. that has to better than sitting in Parliament at nordie question time talking to the empty seats.
That argument is unlikely to hold any water for Unionists. Would SF be convinced on the union if they held the balance of power at Westminster?
its the same doctor maguire.. he sees you in belfast, recomends you for surgery, then meets you in dublin and does the operation ::)
as i said the level of free health care in any country is set by the government in power. re cuba.
I don't follow your argument.

glens abu

Gerry Adams has again called for the release of Marian Price to attend her sisters funeral after she has been refused compassionate parole.

theticklemister

Disgrace. They are hold Marion illegally as it is.

theticklemister

It said on bbc news she is getting realesed. Where is your source?

glens abu

Family statement she got bail but was refused compassionate parole,disgrace ESP after what that UVF crew have been getting away with the past few months.

stibhan

#428
Quote from: Maguire01 on January 25, 2013, 07:24:20 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on January 24, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
2. the bank debt.. norn iron has been part of the uk for nearly a century when it was created its industry was the stuff of legend and the envy of the free world.
You do realise that it was part of the UK before 1921 as well?

Northern Ireland wasn't part of the UK before 1921, no more than the state of West/East Germany or indeed Germany itself was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Ireland, however, was. The point certainly stands - after partition, despite the fact that Harlaand and other major business men were against Home Rule, the neglect of industry by the Stormont government was legendary. This was because they much preferred agricultural projects and legislation as R.F. Foster in Modern Ireland suggests.

The major thing that seemed to be lost on everyone in the Nolan studio (but thankfully not most in this thread) was that a United Ireland is not simply an extension of the south but a complete renegotiation of the political establishment of this island. In that sense, when Arlene suggested that 'politically, historically, culturally, economically, socially', or however many other ways she wished to put it, the Union made sense, this was only done on the basis of a comparison with the South as it stands.

So, politically the 6 counties would have much more influence in a United Irish Parliament than they enjoy in Westminster, where I'm fairly sure not one of their elected representatives (save Enoch Powell, who was elected in South Down after the fact) has ever had a ministerial position. If devolution was mimicked in any future settlement, then that would also give the north more power than it currently enjoys.

To suggest that partition has either made sense in any terms historically is ludicrous also, because it's been the root cause of a number of violent conflicts as well as an all-island economy of boom and bust.

Culturally, if it can be gauged, there is really no argument as to which island or state is more successful - the smaller one. That said, the idea that state can easily affect culture through legislation is erroneous, as a glance at the cultural policy that Stormont has enacted will prove. If what Foster meant was in terms of cultural identity then it seems that those oft-quoted census figures demonstrate that British national identity is a minority one in the 6 counties.

Economically, there is no doubt in my mind that a lot of money wasted on unnecessary infrastructural/bureaucratic duplication would be saved by ending partition regardless of whatever subsidies are on offer. Even the amount of money Westminster grants Belfast and its hinterland is a fossil fuel that will eventually run out and is, I would suggest, coming to the tail end of its lifespan. For all the claims of economic illiteracy that Foster has made - some of which are valid - I cannot see how Britain will sustain the failed entity in the long term. It makes sense to join up with the south for the simple reason that anytime there is a better offer across the border the citizens of one state will travel to the other. This 'osmosis' factor almost certainly exacerbated the economic crisis down in the 26 counties ironically seeing as, during the Celtic Tiger, northerners went to Dublin to shop for years. Boom and Bust. When one side of the border booms, the other loses trade: we're a nation of cute hoors. It's absolute economic illiteracy for such a small island to allow for this.

Social partitionism is where the real doublethink is going on in Unionism. In terms of justice, the border has been the equivalent of Andy Dufresne's Raquel Welch Poster for wanted criminals. This extends to white collar crime and general gombeenery as we have seen recently with the Quinns.* Less recently Liam Adams, the Columbia Three and even (rumours have it) a burly Fermanagh footballer have taken use of the peculiar constitutional arrangements of this island to escape the forces of justice. Whereas the border is a constant thorn in the side of both police forces, it is seemly nonexistent in terms of social attitudes as one of Nolan's contributors suggested in saying that Jonathan Bell's attitudes were anything but 'British'. Abortion and gay marriage are two particular areas where many of the DUP's hardliners and the southern bead-bashers would find perfect harmony (not that that is something to celebrate).

In any case, if the UK leaves Europe there's not only the real possibility of custom posts (again), but also the north voting to stay in/out Europe while the UK says different. That happens, and all bets are off.



*The appellations 'crime' and 'gombeenery' here is not meant to imply guilt, before we get into that.

Rossfan

And will Scotland vote to leave the UK???
That could put some cats among a lot of pigeons.

As for Sinn Féin not seeming to know what they want... it seems they just want to have a poll and are obviously of the view that the status quo will win this time around so they haven't thought it through at all.

I already, on a number of occasions on this Board, pointed out the blueprint for the future All Ireland entity - a Confederation with the present 2 "Jurisdictions" being semi autonomous regions with slimmed down Dáil/Stormont running certain local affairs and the "Irish Comfederation" running  major and international affairs.
Obviously the Brits will have to be part of it if Northern "Ulster British" people want to retain British Citizenship/passports into the future, which they should be allowed to.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

give her dixie

#430
Quote from: hardstation on January 25, 2013, 08:42:40 PM
Refused compassionate parole? Fcukin hell!

I cannot understand how they are getting away with their treatment of Marian Price. It's fcukin scandalous.

The judge granted her bail today, and then realised she had been granted bail before. The last time the state stepped in and refused to release her. Now, the parole board have decided to stop her from going to her sisters funeral. Not long ago she wasn't allowed to attend her mothers funeral.

The way Marian has been treated has been beyond humane, and we need more than words at this stage to get her released considering her health.

No matter what people may think of her, she at least deserves to be allowed to say goodbye to her sister and attend her funeral.


Statement from the family of Marian Price McGlinchey.

We have received news that Marian's application for compassionate parole following the tragic death of her sister Dolours has been refused, despite her being granted bail earlier today.

Given Marian's current health issues it is laughable that she would pose any kind of security or flight risk. We feel this decision is nothing more than a continuance of a vicious and vindictive campaign on the part of the Prison Service, the Department of Justice and the British secretary of state along with M15 to destroy Marian both physically and mentally.

We would urge all right thinking people to utterly condemn this blatant breach of Marian's fundamental human rights.
next stop, September 10, for number 4......

Nally Stand

Absolutely f*****g disgusting treatment of Marion Price and her family.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

mayogodhelpus@gmail.com

Time to take a more chill-pill approach to life.


omagh_gael