Should the gaa allow the Liam Miller testimonial in Pairc hi Caoimh - poll

[Milltown Row2]

Duff was the highest profile person that they could wheel out. I might be wrong, but I feel it's all a little orchestrated. Including our friend from Balbriggan. paul kimmage

Duff was doing a press launch for an autism charity he does work for and was asked by a journalist what did he think of the PuC situation. To say he was "wheeled out" as some sort of stooge is an insult to the organisers of the Liam Miller event and also Damien Duff.

The reason this has become such an issue is when Roy Keane was launching the game for Turners Cross one of the journalists asked why aren't you playing it in PuC. Organisers told them they asked Cork county board but were told they couldn't use the ground. It's the journalists and GAA's ability to keep shooting themselves in the foot that has turned this into such a story.

So why is this even a debate? The game was fixed for Turners Cross, media asked about PUC and now its the GAA's fault for saying no? Why didnt the same person ask for the Aviva? As there is more money for the family and some for the charity.. That journalist must be laughing his head off at the reaction

Until the rule is changed then the GAA should stick to their rules, it needs to be talked about at congress and passed.. 

[sid waddell]

Totally agree, multi use Stadia are the way to go. But that would require joined up thinking at Government, and at the head of these organisations.

Ireland has pretty much all the stadiums it needs at this point so there is no point in building new white elephants, only in improving what is already there.

Dublin alone has the following:
Croke Park
Lansdowne Road
RDS
Dalymount Park
Tolka Park
Tallaght Stadium
Richmond Park
Donnybrook
Morton Stadium, Santry

Each fits the need of the sports/teams which use it.

Here in Galway, there are three stadiums - Pearse Stadium, the Sportsground and Terryland Park aka Eamon Deacy Park.

Each suits the particular need of each sport. The Sportsground and Terryland Park are an excellent locations and while there's always grumbling about Pearse Stadium's location and particularly the traffic, it's still within walking distance of the city and in a nice area - traffic is a problem in the whole of Galway city.

25k is around right for the GAA, which can fill or go close to filling Pearse Stadium for Galway v Mayo or Roscommon games in football and for Galway v Kilkenny or maybe Wexford in hurling.

8k in the Sportsground is perfect for Connacht rugby. You get a smashing atmosphere there for most matches. Anything bigger would be too big.

3-4k in Terryland is perfect for Galway United. Again, anything bigger would be too big.

The last thing Galway needs is a new, "multi-use" stadium in an inconvenient location on the outskirts of the city.

What is needed is for the GAA to get rid of the ridiculous rule which bans other sports from GAA venues, in order to facilitate occasional fixtures which might warrant being played at a GAA venue - for example if Cork City reached the group stages of the Europa League, Pairc Ui Chaoimh could be the venue, or if Connacht had a home Heineken Cup quarter-final, Pearse Stadium could host it.

This is basic common sense and would benefit everybody, including the GAA.

[trueblue1234]

Totally agree, multi use Stadia are the way to go. But that would require joined up thinking at Government, and at the head of these organisations.

Ireland has pretty much all the stadiums it needs at this point so there is no point in building new white elephants, only in improving what is already there.

Dublin alone has the following:
Croke Park
Lansdowne Road
RDS
Dalymount Park
Tolka Park
Tallaght Stadium
Richmond Park
Donnybrook
Morton Stadium, Santry

Each fits the need of the sports/teams which use it.

Here in Galway, there are three stadiums - Pearse Stadium, the Sportsground and Terryland Park aka Eamon Deacy Park.

Each suits the particular need of each sport. The Sportsground and Terryland Park are an excellent locations and while there's always grumbling about Pearse Stadium's location and particularly the traffic, it's still within walking distance of the city and in a nice area - traffic is a problem in the whole of Galway city.

25k is around right for the GAA, which can fill or go close to filling Pearse Stadium for Galway v Mayo or Roscommon games in football and for Galway v Kilkenny or maybe Wexford in hurling.

8k in the Sportsground is perfect for Connacht rugby. You get a smashing atmosphere there for most matches. Anything bigger would be too big.

3-4k in Terryland is perfect for Galway United. Again, anything bigger would be too big.

The last thing Galway needs is a new, "multi-use" stadium in an inconvenient location on the outskirts of the city.

What is needed is for the GAA to get rid of the ridiculous rule which bans other sports from GAA venues, in order to facilitate occasional fixtures which might warrant being played at a GAA venue - for example if Cork City reached the group stages of the Europa League, Pairc Ui Chaoimh could be the venue, or if Connacht had a home Heineken Cup quarter-final, Pearse Stadium could host it.

This is basic common sense and would benefit everybody, including the GAA.

Is there not an issue with regards to soccer in a gaa sized pitch. As in the distance from the pitch to the supporters is quite large and takes away from the atmosphere? Or was that not a reason given as to why the IFA didn't want to go ahead with the maze site (I know that can be taken with a pinch of salt). But is it a genuine concern?

[sid waddell]

We've had a lot of "backlash" against Duff's comments but still nothing of substance to dispute the accuracy of them.

If I wanted "backlash" which doesn't deal with reality, I'd read a Daily Mail comment section.

That's just rdiciculous. Any fair minded person would have to agree that the GAA is a reasonably well run organisation and contributes handsomely to Irish society. Calling the people who run it "dinosaurs" is completely over the top and at best childish. You may not like some of the rules but overall, it's a strong, sustainable and self sufficient organisation.

Who said the GAA wasn't largely a reasonably well run organisation which contributes handsomely to Irish society?

You'll have to quote me where anybody said otherwise.

The issue is that there is still a dinosaur attitude that pervades across much of the GAA in relation to "British" sports, and particularly in the shape of the blatantly hypocritical rule which allows Collins v Eubank as well as Michael Jackson, Prince and Oasis to use Pairc Ui Chaoimh, while it doesn't allow a charity association football game in memory of a recently deceased local hero to take place there.

And why? Because association football is perceived in the GAA and in its rulebook as a "British" sport - no other reason.

That is unquestionably a dinossur attitude.

[TheClubman]

The bottom line is - the rules do not allow it. And if we're suggesting rules should be broken when it suits us I'd suggest that's a large part of the problem with this country....everyone believes they're "an exception" or "a one-off" and should get favourable treatment. That's basically the system we're used to under FF/FG and co but it's not right.

I'd suggest the people who are outraged use their energy to put motions through GAA clubs and get the rules changed at congress. It's a long time since the old rule 42 was amended to allow rugby and soccer into Croke Park while Lansdowne Road was being redeveloped. I've seen or heard of no motion to further relax the rules being defeated. We can't have rule changes by media outcry. There's a process. For all its faults it has stood the GAA in good stead. The agenda can't be set by the news reel.

Incompetent thinking, breathtaking in it's arrogance.

Just because you say something it doesn't mean it is the case. Make your argument against what I've said. Don't resort to playground insults of the person like Damian Duff for example.

Happily;

You state rules are rules, and tried to equate this issue to body politic of Ireland (which in and of itself demonstrates a narrow and incompetent mindset)
The rule states that use of GAA grounds must adhere to the aims of the organisation. In this instance the event does not conflict with the aims of the GAA, but it's a charity event?

You've seen or heard no motion to further relax the rules since Rule 42? Check out the motions proposed by Milltown Malbay that have been defeated twice since.

This is not about rules of the GAA, there have been two massive own goals this year that have done more to hinder the aims of the organisation and have been completely self inflicted.

Thank you for being respectful and engaging in more than insults although there are still a few there.

On your first point - I'm at a loss to understand how I'm displaying a "narrow and incompetent mindset". Are you suggesting that we do not regularly bend rules in Irish society? Perhaps you accept that we do and think it's a good think? Personally, I don't believe it is as it creates and feeds a culture of mistrust and cynicism.

My personal belief is that the event does not further the aims of the GAA. Smarter people than me seem to agree. When soccer and rugby were let into Croke Park - yes, it was for the greater good - but the rules had to be changed as it didn't further the aims of the GAA. To simply ignore it's a soccer match involving huge names and say it's a charity event is disingenuos. I don't think any kids in Cork will be attending due to their charitable nature, do you?

I'm not saying that's right or wrong - but the rules are written as they are written and they're either upheld or ignored.

I wasn't aware of the Miltown Malbay motions. I stand corrected.

Equating the Newbridge situation with this is interesting, if an entirely false equivalence. In both situations, there's lots of controversy - i'll give you that. However, in both situations it looks like the GAA rules will be upheld, which obviously you don't want this time.

[seafoid]

Have the GAA met the organising committee yet ?

[Rossfan]

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-look-set-to-allow-liam-miller-match-to-be-played-at-pirc-u-chaoimh-37160223.html

At least Delaney has more manners than prat Duff.

[sid waddell]

Totally agree, multi use Stadia are the way to go. But that would require joined up thinking at Government, and at the head of these organisations.

Ireland has pretty much all the stadiums it needs at this point so there is no point in building new white elephants, only in improving what is already there.

Dublin alone has the following:
Croke Park
Lansdowne Road
RDS
Dalymount Park
Tolka Park
Tallaght Stadium
Richmond Park
Donnybrook
Morton Stadium, Santry

Each fits the need of the sports/teams which use it.

Here in Galway, there are three stadiums - Pearse Stadium, the Sportsground and Terryland Park aka Eamon Deacy Park.

Each suits the particular need of each sport. The Sportsground and Terryland Park are an excellent locations and while there's always grumbling about Pearse Stadium's location and particularly the traffic, it's still within walking distance of the city and in a nice area - traffic is a problem in the whole of Galway city.

25k is around right for the GAA, which can fill or go close to filling Pearse Stadium for Galway v Mayo or Roscommon games in football and for Galway v Kilkenny or maybe Wexford in hurling.

8k in the Sportsground is perfect for Connacht rugby. You get a smashing atmosphere there for most matches. Anything bigger would be too big.

3-4k in Terryland is perfect for Galway United. Again, anything bigger would be too big.

The last thing Galway needs is a new, "multi-use" stadium in an inconvenient location on the outskirts of the city.

What is needed is for the GAA to get rid of the ridiculous rule which bans other sports from GAA venues, in order to facilitate occasional fixtures which might warrant being played at a GAA venue - for example if Cork City reached the group stages of the Europa League, Pairc Ui Chaoimh could be the venue, or if Connacht had a home Heineken Cup quarter-final, Pearse Stadium could host it.

This is basic common sense and would benefit everybody, including the GAA.

Is there not an issue with regards to soccer in a gaa sized pitch. As in the distance from the pitch to the supporters is quite large and takes away from the atmosphere? Or was that not a reason given as to why the IFA didn't want to go ahead with the maze site (I know that can be taken with a pinch of salt). But is it a genuine concern?

There is, to a large extent.

Mismatches between pitch sizes and stadium sizes have become an increasing issue in association football/rugby and there has been a big move internationally in the last 15/20 years or so away from stadiums with running tracks towards dedicated rectangular football stadiums - ie. the Luzhniki Stadium in Moscow was remodelled to move the stands closer to the pitch - the Olympic Stadium in Sydney is also soon to become rectangular after many years of complaints about the poor atmosphere. Juventus's rebuilding of the Delle Alpi stadium, with its running track, into the rectangular Juventus Arena was another good example of this.

The atmosphere at a lot of the Ireland international matches at Croke Park a decade ago was not great and the field being so much bigger than the pitch was definitely a contributory factor.

[Jinxy]

We've had a lot of "backlash" against Duff's comments but still nothing of substance to dispute the accuracy of them.

If I wanted "backlash" which doesn't deal with reality, I'd read a Daily Mail comment section.

Sid, if a doctor sat you down and said, "You're absolutely f*cked, it's terminal cancer", would you take issue with his tone and language or would you say, "Thank you for accurately informing me that I am going to die!"

[Jim_Murphy_74]

My personal belief is that the event does not further the aims of the GAA. Smarter people than me seem to agree. When soccer and rugby were let into Croke Park - yes, it was for the greater good - but the rules had to be changed as it didn't further the aims of the GAA.

Just for the record, the first part of the text in Rule 5.1 reads " not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association".  So it doesn't say any event must "further the aims of the GAA".   To me it's difficult to judge if other sports associations are "in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association".   

The second part of text reads:

"Grounds controlled by Association units shall not be used or permitted to be used, for Horse Racing, Greyhound Racing, or for Field Games others than those sanctioned by Central Council."

So to me that reads that Central Council can sanction any games "not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association".  Hence they could allow American football into Croke Park without recourse to Congress. 

In contrast for rugby and football they have always chosen to recourse to congress.  I believe that is because such games were seen as British and to be frank, that was fine in it's time but is not now.

The reality is that Central Council have always had control from a rules point of view but chose not to exert it from a policy point of view.   

As I posted earlier it's not government policy to aim for multi-use, maximum-utilization projects.   The GAA needs to strongly consider the advantage of their current policy versus access to government funding.

/Jim.

Edit:  I see in article that Central Council have been told to be ready to vote on this tomorrow.   This aligns with my belief that within the rules, it's up to them, not congress.

[sid waddell]

We've had a lot of "backlash" against Duff's comments but still nothing of substance to dispute the accuracy of them.

If I wanted "backlash" which doesn't deal with reality, I'd read a Daily Mail comment section.

Sid, if a doctor sat you down and said, "You're absolutely f*cked, it's terminal cancer", would you take issue with his tone and language or would you say, "Thank you for accurately informing me that I am going to die!"

You want Damien Duff to speak like an oncologist?

Why on earth would you want him to do that?

And why the deflection?

The reason association football and rugby are not allowed to be played at GAA venues, while concerts, American football and boxing are allowed to take place, is because association football and rugby are perceived to be "British" sports.

Let's not beat around the bush - that is the reason. Because they are "British".

I'd love somebody to explain to me how that isn't a dinosaur attitude. Nobody has yet even had a go at doing so.

[From the Bunker]

We've had a lot of "backlash" against Duff's comments but still nothing of substance to dispute the accuracy of them.

If I wanted "backlash" which doesn't deal with reality, I'd read a Daily Mail comment section.

Sid, if a doctor sat you down and said, "You're absolutely f*cked, it's terminal cancer", would you take issue with his tone and language or would you say, "Thank you for accurately informing me that I am going to die!"

You want Damien Duff to speak like an oncologist?

Why on earth would you want him to do that?

And why the deflection?

The reason association football and rugby are not allowed to be played at GAA venues, while concerts, American football and boxing are allowed to take place, is because association football and rugby are perceived to be "British" sports.

Let's not beat around the bush - that is the reason. Because they are "British".

I'd love somebody to explain to me how that isn't a dinosaur attitude. Nobody has yet even had a go at doing so.

That is it! Case closed! Nothing more to see here!

[Keyser soze]

I will have a bash at it so.

We are in direct competition with soccer and rugby. We don't want to give them a leg up by providing them with first class facilities that our volunteers, through dint of hard work, have managed to provide for our players ans supporters to avail of, whilst the professional sports, who are quick to sneer at us for being backward,  have not a pot to piss in.

We are not in direct competition with Prince or Neil Diamond so much.

[trailer]

We've had a lot of "backlash" against Duff's comments but still nothing of substance to dispute the accuracy of them.

If I wanted "backlash" which doesn't deal with reality, I'd read a Daily Mail comment section.

Sid, if a doctor sat you down and said, "You're absolutely f*cked, it's terminal cancer", would you take issue with his tone and language or would you say, "Thank you for accurately informing me that I am going to die!"

You want Damien Duff to speak like an oncologist?

Why on earth would you want him to do that?

And why the deflection?

The reason association football and rugby are not allowed to be played at GAA venues, while concerts, American football and boxing are allowed to take place, is because association football and rugby are perceived to be "British" sports.

Let's not beat around the bush - that is the reason. Because they are "British".

I'd love somebody to explain to me how that isn't a dinosaur attitude. Nobody has yet even had a go at doing so.

GAA is a uniquely Irish sport. You are showing a complete lack of understanding of this last 100 years and indeed the birth of the GAA.
Now I am in favour of opening up all grounds and fear nothing from Rugby or Soccer, but this labelling of GAA as 'dinosaurs' shows a complete lack of understanding of basic history. And is quiet frankly shocking.

Damien Duff is a spoilt, self indulged millionaire, who has forever tainted his legacy.

Liam Miller (former Footballer and Millionaire - £10m in career earnings) will get his fund raising game in PUC and I welcome that, if only just to shut up the soccer fraternity.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

I will have a bash at it so.

We are in direct competition with soccer and rugby. We don't want to give them a leg up by providing them with first class facilities that our volunteers, through dint of hard work, have managed to provide for our players ans supporters to avail of, whilst the professional sports, who are quick to sneer at us for being backward,  have not a pot to piss in.

We are not in direct competition with Prince or Neil Diamond so much.

So it is about best promoting our sports, rather than a point of principle? 

If then the Irish government follows through on it's policy paper of prioritizing multi-use facilities and the rule becomes disadvantageous then we change it?

/Jim.