gaaboard.com

GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 09:42:55 AM

Title: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 09:42:55 AM
Has there ever been a more low key build up to the greatest Derby in the game?

Mickey Graham has said all year it is all about championship. Gearoid McKiernan is back fit and going well. However Cavan dont have high scoring forwards if the league is anything to go by.

Monaghan missing a few but they have McManus and some able support from elsewhere and that has been the difference in previous meetings.

Freetakers would be in Monaghans favour too with Cavans efforts in the league on that front really poor.

Bookies have it 2/1 Cavan and 1/2 Monaghan

It will be close but it is surely time for normal service to resume and the Ulster Kingpins to reassert themselves as top dogs.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2019, 11:00:56 AM
Should be an indicator of Cavan progress under the new management regime
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on May 14, 2019, 02:02:20 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 09:42:55 AM
Has there ever been a more low key build up to the greatest Derby in the game?

Mickey Graham has said all year it is all about championship. Gearoid McKiernan is back fit and going well. However Cavan dont have high scoring forwards if the league is anything to go by.

Monaghan missing a few but they have McManus and some able support from elsewhere and that has been the difference in previous meetings.

Freetakers would be in Monaghans favour too with Cavans efforts in the league on that front really poor.

Bookies have it 2/1 Cavan and 1/2 Monaghan

It will be close but it is surely time for normal service to resume and the Ulster Kingpins to reassert themselves as top dogs.

Could make the difference and will likely be Cavan's top scorer on the day. Recent games have been close and will be a surprise if this game isn't. Does this game get live or deferred coverage on BBC?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 03:20:18 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 14, 2019, 02:02:20 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 09:42:55 AM
Has there ever been a more low key build up to the greatest Derby in the game?

Mickey Graham has said all year it is all about championship. Gearoid McKiernan is back fit and going well. However Cavan dont have high scoring forwards if the league is anything to go by.

Monaghan missing a few but they have McManus and some able support from elsewhere and that has been the difference in previous meetings.

Freetakers would be in Monaghans favour too with Cavans efforts in the league on that front really poor.

Bookies have it 2/1 Cavan and 1/2 Monaghan

It will be close but it is surely time for normal service to resume and the Ulster Kingpins to reassert themselves as top dogs.

Could make the difference and will likely be Cavan's top scorer on the day. Recent games have been close and will be a surprise if this game isn't. Does this game get live or deferred coverage on BBC?

Not sure about BBC but it is live on SKY
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Jayop on May 14, 2019, 03:32:54 PM
Cavan are teh weirdest team in Ulster no doubt about it. Have miles more history than anyone else but it all fell off a cliff for them a long time ago. It's strange because when I'm in Cavan (a lot) they're pure football mad, and the county is important to them not like what we hear about Derry where it's club above all else. They've plenty of players that are good enough too. I think probably the yoyo from D1 and D2 is about right for where they should be, but you'd love to see them really lay down a marker and get a win over one of the big sides. It's only a few years since they got a draw with Tyrone in a semi final, maybe ad they won that day they'd have drove on. Hopefully they do a job on Monaghan this year.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2019, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.
The creation of Northern Ireland made Cavan. It was a  shock to GAA people in the 6 counties and took them 50 years to get over it .
Cavan won 5 all Irelands because it was so easy to get out of Ulster. They could build teams easily because there was no predator. They developed some fabulous talent.
Down won an all Ireland and that was effectively the end of Cavan's great run
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2019, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.
The creation of Northern Ireland made Cavan. It was a  shock to GAA people in the 6 counties and took them 50 years to get over it .
Cavan won 5 all Irelands because it was so easy to get out of Ulster. They could build teams easily because there was no predator. They developed some fabulous talent.
Down won an all Ireland and that was effectively the end of Cavan's great run

When down won 3 sams in the 60s they shared all the Ulsters of that decade with cavan. Indeed cavan gave them a beating or two back then but never won Sam. So your point doesn't fully stack up. Mind you I could also argue that Galway would've won feck all too if they weren't in a province with only 2 teams and occasionally 3  nor Kerry where they only had to beat 1 team.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: seafoid on May 14, 2019, 04:37:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2019, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.
The creation of Northern Ireland made Cavan. It was a  shock to GAA people in the 6 counties and took them 50 years to get over it .
Cavan won 5 all Irelands because it was so easy to get out of Ulster. They could build teams easily because there was no predator. They developed some fabulous talent.
Down won an all Ireland and that was effectively the end of Cavan's great run

When down won 3 sams in the 60s they shared all the Ulsters of that decade with cavan. Indeed cavan gave them a beating or two back then but never won Sam. So your point doesn't fully stack up. Mind you I could also argue that Galway would've won feck all too if they weren't in a province with only 2 teams and occasionally 3  nor Kerry where they only had to beat 1 team.

Cavan didn't win any all Irelands afterwards.
They didn't win Ulster in the 70s or 80s at all at all
So the momentum broke down

But depopulation was also a factor in fairness 
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Aristo 60 on May 14, 2019, 04:39:03 PM
Seafoid you favour Down and hold great knowledge of our illustrious periods. Have you Down in your blood?

We must be your second team even if no blood.


Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: trailer on May 14, 2019, 04:44:13 PM
Seanie Johnston?

Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 05:19:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2019, 04:37:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 04:19:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2019, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.
The creation of Northern Ireland made Cavan. It was a  shock to GAA people in the 6 counties and took them 50 years to get over it .
Cavan won 5 all Irelands because it was so easy to get out of Ulster. They could build teams easily because there was no predator. They developed some fabulous talent.
Down won an all Ireland and that was effectively the end of Cavan's great run

When down won 3 sams in the 60s they shared all the Ulsters of that decade with cavan. Indeed cavan gave them a beating or two back then but never won Sam. So your point doesn't fully stack up. Mind you I could also argue that Galway would've won feck all too if they weren't in a province with only 2 teams and occasionally 3  nor Kerry where they only had to beat 1 team.

Cavan didn't win any all Irelands afterwards.
They didn't win Ulster in the 70s or 80s at all at all
So the momentum broke down

But depopulation was also a factor in fairness

I am aware of the history of cavan gaa lad.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 14, 2019, 05:20:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 14, 2019, 04:44:13 PM
Seanie Johnston?

He kicked 4-11 for club last weekend and will be starting against Monaghan.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: larryin89 on May 14, 2019, 05:41:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.

There were Less people living in Cavan when they last won an all Ireland than there is today according to whatever I looked up there
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Boycey on May 14, 2019, 09:57:34 PM
We'll be lucky to have 15 for Saturday evening they are falling like flies in Monaghan.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: BennyCake on May 14, 2019, 11:45:26 PM
I have a feeling Cavan could take this.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 15, 2019, 09:55:46 AM
Stolen from Hoganstand. Since they steal most of their articles from elsewhere I feel good about posting it here...

Cavan and Monaghan have been fierce championship rivals since contesting a contentious first Ulster SFC final in County Meath in 1888.

That maiden decider, some 131 years ago, was staged during a downpour in Bryanstown, just outside Drogheda in south Meath, as there were no provincial councils at the time. Central Council initially fixed it for Dundalk, but it was moved following a successful appeal by the Cavan County Committee.

Their issue was that playing the game at Dundalk Young Irelands' pitch offered an unfair advantage to Monaghan, who were represented by Inniskeen Henry Grattans, based only eight miles away from the County Louth venue. Cavan, meanwhile, represented by Maghera Mac Finns, would have had to travel 40 miles (no minor undertaking at the time) so they sought to have the decider moved to a venue with better rail links.

The initial game, which was part of a novel provincial final double-bill, preceded as it was by Louth's [Dundalk Young Irelands] comfortable win over Meath [Dowdstown] in the Leinster final, on August 19th, finished in a 0-2 apiece draw. At the time, teams could field anything from 14 to 21 players but, as they only received late notice of the change of venue, Monaghan turned up with only 15 men, so Cavan had to leave six of their men out. Cavan wished to play extra time but Monaghan refused.

The replay took place at the same venue on September 9th and this time Monaghan prevailed – but only after Cavan had been initially awarded the game! Inniskeen – who missed their train from Dundalk to Drogheda and had to hire brakes (long carts with seats) were late to arrive at the home of Drogheda Gaelics and MacFinns were awarded the spoils.

There was no Twitter or WhatsApp back then so a carrier pigeon was dispatched to Cavan telling the locals that they had won, but the game was played after the Grattans belatedly showed up and Monaghan came out on top.

There were rumours and counter-rumours of shenanigans. It was the beginning of a long, intense rivalry that will be renewed when the Breffni County and their Farney counterparts go head to head again on Saturday night.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: five points on May 15, 2019, 10:40:15 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 14, 2019, 05:41:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.

There were Less people living in Cavan when they last won an all Ireland than there is today according to whatever I looked up there

Fewer commuting Dubs in 1952 though.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: larryin89 on May 15, 2019, 11:02:27 AM
Quote from: five points on May 15, 2019, 10:40:15 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 14, 2019, 05:41:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.

There were Less people living in Cavan when they last won an all Ireland than there is today according to whatever I looked up there

Fewer commuting Dubs in 1952 though.

True enough
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 15, 2019, 12:12:16 PM
This is Cavan's best chance to finally beat Monaghan at championship level in modern times.
If I were a cavan man, I'd stake the ford cortina (bald tyres and all) on the outcome.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on May 15, 2019, 03:37:56 PM
Even allowing for the absences we'd still be fielding a better side than Cavan imo - but they're due a win against us, are at home, and we must be down to our 4th/5th choice midfielders, at best. Cavan will certainly be the stronger side in that area, and if they dominate there then you never know.

We have the firepower to punish Cavan up top and McManus loves playing them, but if they're starved of supply then it's no use. It'd be a good time for one or both of McCarthy/McCarron to have a big game in Ulster, and while I wouldn't expect him to start, O'Hanlon could have a lively cameo from the bench. With the normal midfield missing, we'll need to put in a mountain of work around the middle, so the likes of O'Connell, Kelly, Malone etc. will be key.

No matter what stages the teams are at, these derby games are always tight to the wire so I'd be expecting the same here.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: mrdeeds on May 17, 2019, 01:54:39 PM
Team v Monaghan
1. Raymond Galligan (Lacken)
2. Jason McLoughlin (Shannon Gaels)
3. Padraig Faulkner (Kingscourt)
4. Conor Moynagh (Drumgoon)
5. Gerard Smith (Lavey)
6. Killian Clarke (Shercock)
7. Conor Rehill (Crosserlough)
8. Conor Brady (Gowna)
9. Gearoid McKiernan (Swanlinbar)
10. Martin Reilly (Killygarry)
11. Dara McVeety (Crosserlough)
12. Niall Murray (Cavan Gaels)
13. Oisin Kiernan (Castlerahan)
14. Thomas Galligan (Lacken)
15. Conor Madden (Gowna)

Great to see Oisin back after his cancer battle.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Westside on May 17, 2019, 04:33:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 15, 2019, 12:12:16 PM
This is Cavan's best chance to finally beat Monaghan at championship level in modern times.
If I were a cavan man, I'd stake the ford cortina (bald tyres and all) on the outcome.

To be fair, Cavan's best chance was 2015 when they bested Monaghan for most of the game and found themselves 5 points up with 10 minutes to go...

Cavan have shown very little to suggest that we can win this game. Trying to beat a Division 1 side in the Ulster Championship without a good freetaker, or even a settled freetaker at this point, is extremely difficult.
If rumours about Gearoid playing full forward and McVeety playing around the middle are true then the Cavan management are tying themselves in knots trying to be cute.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Jayop on May 17, 2019, 05:53:24 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 17, 2019, 01:54:39 PM
Team v Monaghan
1. Raymond Galligan (Lacken)
2. Jason McLoughlin (Shannon Gaels)
3. Padraig Faulkner (Kingscourt)
4. Conor Moynagh (Drumgoon)
5. Gerard Smith (Lavey)
6. Killian Clarke (Shercock)
7. Conor Rehill (Crosserlough)
8. Conor Brady (Gowna)
9. Gearoid McKiernan (Swanlinbar)
10. Martin Reilly (Killygarry)
11. Dara McVeety (Crosserlough)
12. Niall Murray (Cavan Gaels)
13. Oisin Kiernan (Castlerahan)
14. Thomas Galligan (Lacken)
15. Conor Madden (Gowna)

Great to see Oisin back after his cancer battle.

Brilliant! I was totally oblivious to his story until I heard his interview on the GAA hour. I have to say he's an inspirational lad to go through what he did in the manner he did it.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 17, 2019, 06:49:26 PM
Can someone fill me in on what first choice players Monaghan will be missing for this game?  Looks to be a good balance to that Cavan team with arguably their best players played in core positions in the team.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 17, 2019, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 17, 2019, 04:33:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 15, 2019, 12:12:16 PM
This is Cavan's best chance to finally beat Monaghan at championship level in modern times.
If I were a cavan man, I'd stake the ford cortina (bald tyres and all) on the outcome.

To be fair, Cavan's best chance was 2015 when they bested Monaghan for most of the game and found themselves 5 points up with 10 minutes to go...

:D
To be fair, Cavan were 4 points up with 20 minutes to play and ran out of puff.
With 10 minutes to go the scores were level, then a little piece of McManus magic happened.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: mrdeeds on May 17, 2019, 07:45:10 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 17, 2019, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 17, 2019, 04:33:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 15, 2019, 12:12:16 PM
This is Cavan's best chance to finally beat Monaghan at championship level in modern times.
If I were a cavan man, I'd stake the ford cortina (bald tyres and all) on the outcome.

To be fair, Cavan's best chance was 2015 when they bested Monaghan for most of the game and found themselves 5 points up with 10 minutes to go...

:D
To be fair, Cavan were 4 points up with 20 minutes to play and ran out of puff.
With 10 minutes to go the scores were level, then a little piece of McManus magic happened.

Monaghan won that because they had a better bench and Martin Reilly got a ridiculous black card that was overturned after.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 18, 2019, 12:08:55 AM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 17, 2019, 07:45:10 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 17, 2019, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Westside on May 17, 2019, 04:33:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 15, 2019, 12:12:16 PM
This is Cavan's best chance to finally beat Monaghan at championship level in modern times.
If I were a cavan man, I'd stake the ford cortina (bald tyres and all) on the outcome.

To be fair, Cavan's best chance was 2015 when they bested Monaghan for most of the game and found themselves 5 points up with 10 minutes to go...

:D
To be fair, Cavan were 4 points up with 20 minutes to play and ran out of puff.
With 10 minutes to go the scores were level, then a little piece of McManus magic happened.

Monaghan won that because they had a better bench and Martin Reilly got a ridiculous black card that was overturned after.
To be fair, I'm just correcting the facts of what happened, not the opinions.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: mrdeeds on May 18, 2019, 12:18:49 AM
Was it not Walshe point that won it? That's not an opinion.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 18, 2019, 10:31:13 AM
Are monaghan going to name a team or are they struggling to find 15 fit players?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on May 18, 2019, 10:48:38 AM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2019, 10:31:13 AM
Are monaghan going to name a team or are they struggling to find 15 fit players?

We're just waiting as long as possible to see who's actually fit to play. Dick and Lennon might be asked to tog out yet.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 18, 2019, 10:51:29 AM
We only need 10 good fit players.

Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on May 18, 2019, 12:14:18 PM
Monaghan team named. As always, take with a pinch of salt and expect 2/3 changes regardless.

Beggan
Wylie
Boyle
Wylie
O'Connell
Walshe
Duffy
Kelly
K Hughes
Ward
Malone
Carey
McAnespie
McManus
O'Hanlon

Interesting to see Kieran back and named to start. Wouldn't be at all shocked if there was a late change, but he seems ready to play some part. Also great to see Kearns back in the squad, he might not play much if at all in this game, but fantastic to have him back in the fold.

I like the look of the defense, definitely agree with having Boyle at full back which frees up Drew a bit as well. Attack looks like it's been picked to work hard which will be crucial this evening, with a 2 man full forward line of McManus and O'Hanlon. I probably would have held O'Hanlon in reserve for an impact sub, but then I haven't been seeing how he's gone in the lead up to this. Big opportunity for him to make an impact, hope he does well. Then you've potential impact off the bench from McCarthy, McGinn and Bannigan, though the latter 2 haven't seen as much football as you'd have liked this year so far.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 18, 2019, 01:29:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2019, 10:31:13 AM
Are monaghan going to name a team or are they struggling to find 15 fit players?

Looking at the Monaghan team that is named. 4 changes from the AI semi final Boyle,K Hughes,Ward, O'Hanlon in for V Corey,D Hughes,N Kearns and C McCarthy.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: BennyCake on May 18, 2019, 02:06:32 PM
Is this on tv tonight?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on May 18, 2019, 02:14:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 18, 2019, 02:06:32 PM
Is this on tv tonight?

Sky
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: BennyCake on May 18, 2019, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 18, 2019, 02:14:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 18, 2019, 02:06:32 PM
Is this on tv tonight?

Sky

Balls.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 18, 2019, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 18, 2019, 02:16:25 PM
Quote from: Schkite on May 18, 2019, 02:14:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 18, 2019, 02:06:32 PM
Is this on tv tonight?

Sky

Balls.
Don't jump off the cliff just yet.
Deferred broadcast on BBC2NI  (10pm I think, not sure)
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 18, 2019, 07:14:37 PM
Cavan couldn't have asked for a better start.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: An Watcher on May 18, 2019, 07:17:38 PM
Don't think it's on at all.  Crap.  2 decent games in Ulster this weekend too
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on May 18, 2019, 07:24:20 PM
20 mins gone Cavan 1-4 Monaghan 0-2. Monaghan have yet to score from play.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 18, 2019, 07:27:01 PM
Break in play with a dog running around the field  ;D
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 18, 2019, 07:43:58 PM
Monaghan shocking so far, fortunate to be only 7 points behind
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on May 18, 2019, 07:44:30 PM
Half time Cavan 1-8 Monaghan 0-4.  The home side good value for that 7 point lead.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 18, 2019, 07:48:05 PM
Great half by Cavan they look so well organised under Graham, Monaghan starting to panic already going by their wayward shooting in that half.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Shamrock Shore on May 18, 2019, 07:48:26 PM
Monaghan not at the races! Looking forward to a shock
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: cavanmaniac on May 18, 2019, 08:00:05 PM
A real crispness, organisation and confidence to Cavan today. Should see this home now and it'd be a great step forward for the team under Graham in his first year.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on May 18, 2019, 08:06:24 PM
40 mins played Cavan 1-9 Monaghan 0-6. Monaghan finally off the mark from play.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on May 18, 2019, 08:18:52 PM
52 mins played. Cavan 1-10 Monaghan 0-9.  Beggan not having one of better days on placed balls.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on May 18, 2019, 08:22:35 PM
Just the 3 points in it now. 14 mins to go. Cavan 1-10 Monaghan 0-10
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 18, 2019, 08:26:16 PM
Monaghan much better in this half, can Cavan hold on?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on May 18, 2019, 08:33:25 PM
2 mins left Cavan 1-12 Monaghan 0-11
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: cavanmaniac on May 18, 2019, 08:40:22 PM
I think Ray Galligan might be playing for Monaghan!
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on May 18, 2019, 08:40:43 PM
Full time Cavan 1-13 Monaghan 0-12. Ground work for that victory was done in the 1st half congrats to Cavan on a deserved win.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: marty34 on May 18, 2019, 08:43:45 PM
Derry, Monaghan, Tipperary and Down/Armagh etc. in back door - should be a few decent ties come out of that 8n first round.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: clarshack on May 18, 2019, 08:44:56 PM
Well done Cavan. Monaghan very poor tonight though.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: LaurelEye on May 18, 2019, 08:46:07 PM
Monaghan just got Mullinalaghta'd  8)
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 18, 2019, 08:46:23 PM
Good stuff by Cavan they simply wanted it more tonight.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: cavanmaniac on May 18, 2019, 08:47:06 PM
Massive step up and stride forward for Cavan. Wobbled a bit in the second half and went too conservative at times but ultimately saw off the threat with a few well-timed scores to keep Monaghan at arm's length.
Free-taking was not an issue today for Cavan but kickouts were terrible all evening.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 18, 2019, 08:48:46 PM
Well done An Cabhán men :)
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 18, 2019, 08:49:38 PM
Very easy win for Cavan. That was probably the worst display from Monaghan since 10 years, they played as if there was a total absence of coached preparation. Cavan had they played with more confidence in the 2nd half would have won by a country mile.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: SouthDublinBro on May 18, 2019, 08:50:16 PM
Brilliant to see. Monaghan again underwhelming when removed from Clones. For all of the stick the fans give the Dubs over Croke Park, they can't handle away days themselves.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: kerryforsam19 on May 18, 2019, 09:08:10 PM
Cavan well worth the win. Monaghan will still be in super 8s with decent run in qualifiers.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: bennydorano on May 18, 2019, 09:51:32 PM
Half foward Reilly MOTM? Him McVetty & McKeirnan all excellent
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: JoG2 on May 18, 2019, 10:17:20 PM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on May 18, 2019, 08:50:16 PM
Brilliant to see. Monaghan again underwhelming when removed from Clones. For all of the stick the fans give the Dubs over Croke Park, they can't handle away days themselves.

Clown

Well done Cavan. Few jitters in the 2nd half but weathered the storm. Hunger in spades. Qualifiers shaping up rightly!
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: timmyot501 on May 18, 2019, 11:16:28 PM
No complaints apart from the penalty decision obviously. Couldn't see what it was given for at the match given I was nearer other goals. But just seen it back. Crazy stuff

That said the best team won and margin prob didn't flatter them either.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: mrdeeds on May 19, 2019, 02:37:12 AM
Quote from: timmyot501 on May 18, 2019, 11:16:28 PM
No complaints apart from the penalty decision obviously. Couldn't see what it was given for at the match given I was nearer other goals. But just seen it back. Crazy stuff

That said the best team won and margin prob didn't flatter them either.

You saw the push?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 19, 2019, 09:02:42 AM
Well done Cavan. Are Monaghan the new Mayo? As in gone past it?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: larryin89 on May 19, 2019, 09:16:32 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 19, 2019, 09:02:42 AM
Well done Cavan. Are Monaghan the new Mayo? As in gone past it?

Both Monaghan and Mayo are past it Joe brolly says so although brolly ,Spillane and o Rourke said mayo were finished after 13 final .

Cavan deserving winners but let a poor performing Monaghan team back into it when the game was there to be killed . Playing keepball inviting the turnover with over twenty mins left would be punished much more severally by a better team like Tyrone or Donegal . Some decent players on the Cavan team, kick passing impressive , kickouts need to be worked on , mckieron shooting off his weaker foot three times on the trot was poor choice . Lots of stuff they can work on but I can't see why they couldn't improve and have a right cut at it for an Ulster title .
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: From the Bunker on May 19, 2019, 09:20:07 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 19, 2019, 09:02:42 AM
Well done Cavan. Are Monaghan the new Mayo? As in gone past it?

Monaghan have their level which is they can beat any of the main chasing bunch (Tyrone, Donegal, Mayo, Galway, Kerry) on any given day. They can also lose to the likes of Fermanagh or Cavan. Yesterdays result changes very little as to where Monaghan are.

As for Mayo, we are not as strong as we were circa 2013-2017.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 19, 2019, 09:21:24 AM
Delighted with the win. Brilliant 1st half and a nervous 2nd when monaghan pressed up very hard. Martin Reilly was the clear man of the match (except to Dick Clerkin!). I thought Jason McLoughlin was outstanding. Cavan needed badly to win this game and take out 1) our biggest provincial rivals and 2) a top 6 team. They did that well. Peno did look soft but I don't think anyone would argue we were not 4pts better today.

Bit of a worry was our inability at times to secure a kick out and some players looked to panic when monaghan pressed us and stopped making the hard runs. Good move by Mickey to bring mcvetty out the field to deal with that issue.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 19, 2019, 12:43:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 19, 2019, 09:20:07 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 19, 2019, 09:02:42 AM
Well done Cavan. Are Monaghan the new Mayo? As in gone past it?

Monaghan have their level which is they can beat any of the main chasing bunch (Tyrone, Donegal, Mayo, Galway, Kerry) on any given day. They can also lose to the likes of Fermanagh or Cavan. Yesterdays result changes very little as to where Monaghan are.

As for Mayo, we are not as strong as we were circa 2013-2017.

Yes Monaghan lack consistency, it seems they struggle when favourites and excel as the underdog. As for Mayo Horan and number of the experience players such as Barrett,Moran have said this is the strongest Mayo team/panel yet and they backed up those words so far by winning a first national title for 18 years but i suppose they will be fully judged as to where they are this summer.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Look-Up! on May 20, 2019, 09:38:23 AM
Brilliant win for us. Much the better team on the day. We looked nervous second half and looked like shooting ourselves in the foot but very happy with how we saw the game out. As soon as our lead was under real threat and the game was in the melting pot and there for both teams we upped a gear and always looked comfortable enough. Winning margin really should have been more more in truth. Free taking still an issue and cannot afford to pass up some of the scores we did. Sitting back and messing around with the ball in defense doesn't really suit us either. Kick outs good enough but we are error prone here when the pressure is on. Armagh should be a great occasion and a good gauge of where we're at. Should go in as favourites so will be interesting to see how we carry the baggage and if we can put in a back to back display.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Look-Up! on May 20, 2019, 09:49:35 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 14, 2019, 05:41:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.

There were Less people living in Cavan when they last won an all Ireland than there is today according to whatever I looked up there

Cavan were ranked 14th in population when they last won the AI. They would have been ranked higher than that in the previous years and during their golden era but the shifting demographics at the time meant the decline was steady and irreversible. By the 1970s they were in the 20's and have stayed there since. All counties suffered population decline but Cavan and Roscommon are unique when you look at county ranking by population. Few counties have declined as badly as them.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: highorlow on May 20, 2019, 09:51:40 AM
Roscommon won't be happy with that result, having Monaghan in the qualifiers, not easy.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Look-Up! on May 20, 2019, 09:52:05 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2019, 08:49:38 PM
Very easy win for Cavan. That was probably the worst display from Monaghan since 10 years, they played as if there was a total absence of coached preparation. Cavan had they played with more confidence in the 2nd half would have won by a country mile.

Monaghan did look a bit shell shocked. Was there some mix up with the travel arrangements or something? Think team bus was late in to Breffni and in a mad panic.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Look-Up! on May 20, 2019, 10:11:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2019, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.
The creation of Northern Ireland made Cavan. It was a  shock to GAA people in the 6 counties and took them 50 years to get over it .
Cavan won 5 all Irelands because it was so easy to get out of Ulster. They could build teams easily because there was no predator. They developed some fabulous talent.
Down won an all Ireland and that was effectively the end of Cavan's great run
The creation of NI destroyed Cavan. Cavan traditionally was a thriving population centre and was serviced by numerous rail networks and by the standards of the time would have had a decent and well serviced economy. With the split Cavan was now on the periphery of the state. As with the rest of the border counties there was no government investment of any sort and in fact all the railway lines were ripped up. Today the 3 counties of Ulster are the only counties in Ireland with no rail infrastructure. The neglect of the border region allowed the counties to become backwaters with little futures for the youth. Population decline was inevitable.     
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 20, 2019, 04:26:01 PM
Important update...

https://www.anglocelt.ie/news/roundup/articles/2019/05/20/4174341-meet-skye-breffni-pitch-invader-and-viral-sensation/
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2019, 08:49:38 PM
Very easy win for Cavan. That was probably the worst display from Monaghan since 10 years, they played as if there was a total absence of coached preparation. Cavan had they played with more confidence in the 2nd half would have won by a country mile.

Thought your recents defeats to Div 3 opposition was far worse TBH
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: marty34 on May 20, 2019, 07:07:14 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on May 20, 2019, 10:11:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 14, 2019, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
No more than ourselves when Cavan were kingpins the population was up around 90,000.
The creation of Northern Ireland made Cavan. It was a  shock to GAA people in the 6 counties and took them 50 years to get over it .
Cavan won 5 all Irelands because it was so easy to get out of Ulster. They could build teams easily because there was no predator. They developed some fabulous talent.
Down won an all Ireland and that was effectively the end of Cavan's great run
The creation of NI destroyed Cavan. Cavan traditionally was a thriving population centre and was serviced by numerous rail networks and by the standards of the time would have had a decent and well serviced economy. With the split Cavan was now on the periphery of the state. As with the rest of the border counties there was no government investment of any sort and in fact all the railway lines were ripped up. Today the 3 counties of Ulster are the only counties in Ireland with no rail infrastructure. The neglect of the border region allowed the counties to become backwaters with little futures for the youth. Population decline was inevitable.   

Population declone in west Cavan for sure but a lot of commuters from Cavan town - Virginia and all along to Dublin.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 07:45:35 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2019, 08:49:38 PM
Very easy win for Cavan. That was probably the worst display from Monaghan since 10 years, they played as if there was a total absence of coached preparation. Cavan had they played with more confidence in the 2nd half would have won by a country mile.

Thought your recents defeats to Div 3 opposition was far worse TBH
There's a difference between a defeat and the performance.
The defeat to Down in 2017 was similar to this one, however the tables were turned easy enough later on at Croke Park in the 4th round of the qualifiers.
Losing to the Larries on tour? one might think that no self respecting team could show their face after losing at home to that shower, but that game happened right after 2 hard games against Donegal.
It's no shock or surprise to lose to a team like Cavan on their home ground, it's just from a Monaghan perspective the performance and tactics were very poor, well below standard.

Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 20, 2019, 08:04:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 07:45:35 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 06:50:58 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2019, 08:49:38 PM
Very easy win for Cavan. That was probably the worst display from Monaghan since 10 years, they played as if there was a total absence of coached preparation. Cavan had they played with more confidence in the 2nd half would have won by a country mile.

Thought your recents defeats to Div 3 opposition was far worse TBH
There's a difference between a defeat and the performance.
The defeat to Down in 2017 was similar to this one, however the tables were turned easy enough later on at Croke Park in the 4th round of the qualifiers.
Losing to the Larries on tour? one might think that no self respecting team could show their face after losing at home to that shower, but that game happened right after 2 hard games against Donegal.
It's no shock or surprise to lose to a team like Cavan on their home ground, it's just from a Monaghan perspective the performance and tactics were very poor, well below standard.

Fermangh last year? even before the late goal i thought Monaghan's performance was well off their standard.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
So many burdens of bad defeats to carry and yet Monaghan's spirit is indomitable.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
So many burdens of bad defeats to carry and yet Monaghan's spirit is indomitable.
Yeah you'd have to wonder... for example a good team should be able to handle teams like Longford or Fermanagh in 3rd gear.
The inconsistency points to a team that is able to get psyched up to operate above their level against the big guns.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: imtommygunn on May 20, 2019, 09:50:16 PM
This was a good game. People raving about Armagh and down. IMO this was much better. Some great points taken and some serious passing by Reilly.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
So many burdens of bad defeats to carry and yet Monaghan's spirit is indomitable.
Yeah you'd have to wonder... for example a good team should be able to handle teams like Longford or Fermanagh in 3rd gear.
The inconsistency points to a team that is able to get psyched up to operate above their level against the big guns.
You can wonder OJ, but who gives a shít.

Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
So many burdens of bad defeats to carry and yet Monaghan's spirit is indomitable.
Yeah you'd have to wonder... for example a good team should be able to handle teams like Longford or Fermanagh in 3rd gear.
The inconsistency points to a team that is able to get psyched up to operate above their level against the big guns.
You can wonder OJ, but who gives a shít.
No need to be so nasty, esp when I was in agreement with you
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on May 21, 2019, 12:24:09 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
So many burdens of bad defeats to carry and yet Monaghan's spirit is indomitable.
Yeah you'd have to wonder... for example a good team should be able to handle teams like Longford or Fermanagh in 3rd gear.
The inconsistency points to a team that is able to get psyched up to operate above their level against the big guns.
You can wonder OJ, but who gives a shít.
No need to be so nasty, esp when I was in agreement with you

He's a wee bit soar yet, leave him be. They might get 4 div 4 teams in the qualifiers this year too and make it to the super 8s yet.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 21, 2019, 01:44:03 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
So many burdens of bad defeats to carry and yet Monaghan's spirit is indomitable.
Yeah you'd have to wonder... for example a good team should be able to handle teams like Longford or Fermanagh in 3rd gear.
The inconsistency points to a team that is able to get psyched up to operate above their level against the big guns.
You can wonder OJ, but who gives a shít.
No need to be so nasty, esp when I was in agreement with you
You have a peculiar way of agreeing with me with that pseudo nonsense.


Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: omaghjoe on May 21, 2019, 04:54:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2019, 01:44:03 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
So many burdens of bad defeats to carry and yet Monaghan's spirit is indomitable.
Yeah you'd have to wonder... for example a good team should be able to handle teams like Longford or Fermanagh in 3rd gear.
The inconsistency points to a team that is able to get psyched up to operate above their level against the big guns.
You can wonder OJ, but who gives a shít.
No need to be so nasty, esp when I was in agreement with you
You have a peculiar way of agreeing with me with that pseudo nonsense.
I was just developing your point, i thought you may have had some further insight into it that may assist your team inconsistency issues.
Sadly it appears the Banty culture of getting riled up for the big boys persists
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on May 21, 2019, 10:14:54 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2019, 04:54:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2019, 01:44:03 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
So many burdens of bad defeats to carry and yet Monaghan's spirit is indomitable.
Yeah you'd have to wonder... for example a good team should be able to handle teams like Longford or Fermanagh in 3rd gear.
The inconsistency points to a team that is able to get psyched up to operate above their level against the big guns.
You can wonder OJ, but who gives a shít.
No need to be so nasty, esp when I was in agreement with you
You have a peculiar way of agreeing with me with that pseudo nonsense.
I was just developing your point, i thought you may have had some further insight into it that may assist your team inconsistency issues.
Sadly it appears the Banty culture of getting riled up for the big boys persists
You were not developing my point. That was your opinion and you'd have to be pretty dumb and arrogant to assume that you were developing my point with that condescending pyscho babble bull of  'the little boys who sometime can get riled up against the big boys, but they really are little boys'.
Shove it where the sun don't shine.


Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Dire Ear on May 21, 2019, 10:42:56 AM
Give it out ,  but can't take it, eh?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: omaghjoe on May 21, 2019, 03:25:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2019, 10:14:54 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 21, 2019, 04:54:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 21, 2019, 01:44:03 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 20, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 20, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
So many burdens of bad defeats to carry and yet Monaghan's spirit is indomitable.
Yeah you'd have to wonder... for example a good team should be able to handle teams like Longford or Fermanagh in 3rd gear.
The inconsistency points to a team that is able to get psyched up to operate above their level against the big guns.
You can wonder OJ, but who gives a shít.
No need to be so nasty, esp when I was in agreement with you
You have a peculiar way of agreeing with me with that pseudo nonsense.
I was just developing your point, i thought you may have had some further insight into it that may assist your team inconsistency issues.
Sadly it appears the Banty culture of getting riled up for the big boys persists
You were not developing my point. That was your opinion and you'd have to be pretty dumb and arrogant to assume that you were developing my point with that condescending pyscho babble bull of  'the little boys who sometime can get riled up against the big boys, but they really are little boys'.
Shove it where the sun don't shine.
Your point was that the Monaghan spirit is indomitable Im in agreement with that. They  continue to compete on the periphery of the top teams after frequent losses to team further down the totem pole. Perhaps you disagree with me as to why that continues to happen?.... but you haven't offered anything to suggest that I am incorrect or an alternative theory as to why. Instead you rather perplexity proceed to get riled up and be rude in the hope that it will somehow scare me off.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: seafoid on May 21, 2019, 03:29:44 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-cavan-s-win-shows-the-value-of-focused-planning-1.3898617

Kevin McStay: Cavan's win shows the value of focused planning

Graam's side now in a beautiful place - a bubble of contentment and momentum


Kevin McStay
The Ulster Championship delivered two cracking games at the weekend based on the unique opportunity that the first round gives team to execute an ambush that was planned in the depths of winter.

Armagh knew they would play Down from last October when the master Championship fixtures were announced: the destiny of their season became tied up in that game. And Cavan had the same knowledge about Monaghan.

You are never again given such a protracted run – a chance to prepare for and fixate upon your opposition for months and months.

Cavan's approach to their game interested me because it seemed like a situation that was crucial to the evolution of this generation of players. I could see the parallels with Roscommon in 2017, when we were relegated from Division One and knew we would almost certainly play either Mayo or Galway in a Connacht final.

Relegation can leave a squad and management feeling disoriented and just low. Certainly I know we felt terribly lonely and questioned ourselves having had such a drubbing of a league experience.

The way we grounded ourselves was by focusing, from months out, on that one game. And this made me think about how Cavan and Mickey Graham would have planned for what was a splendid, one-off, isolated opportunity to take out Monaghan in Breffni Park.

When Graham and his team sat down to think about this, the first thing they would have looked at is what might be termed the known-knowns.

So: Cavan know they have been relegated, in eighth place, out of Division One. They know also that Monaghan have survived by the skin of their teeth in that same league, And they also know they have lost to Monaghan in that league. But they are content that the margin between the two squads is tight: the score difference in their last four championship games is 1.33 points.

This is the opposite of a mismatch – this is a rivalry defined by inches and minute differences. They hit the post in one of those championship matches that could have won that game. So they know, from the second that the draw is made, that they have a fighter's chance of coming out on top here. And they know Monaghan know that. So that gives them a focus and a place to work towards from months out.

The league has ended. The dates are made. And now Cavan know they have home advantage and that there is public goodwill behind this team – provided they perform on the day. It's an occasion to look forward to because they are still outsiders – Monaghan have been an extraordinary force for the past six years.

The underdog has to have a voracious appetite for knowledge and to seek out an edge. That is what gives them an on-the-day-shot at victory. This is not the same as the Sligo-Galway equation, where the gap is just too big.

Also, Cavan's squad is hearing of Monaghan's mounting injury crisis. They are happy with their match-ups – they know Padraig Faulkner will take Conor McManus, for instance. They know they can't foul because of the accuracy of Rory Beggan and McManus from 55 metres in.

They know their fitness has improved dramatically. One of the big things they clearly decided to do was to take the game to Monaghan by exploiting pace and space. The golden rule was to keep the ball out of contact. They would shift the ball over and back until they got a good shooting opportunity either side of the D. So they begin to work on this in practice, night after night.

"Mayo came up with an almighty full-field press for the first 20 minutes of the replay, and dismantled us and scored heavily in that period

Midfield would have been identified as a huge challenge for them. But now it looks like they might a serious advantage because Monaghan are down Darren Hughes, who has broken his ankle. This is huge: he is a high octane line-breaker, a force to be reckoned with. Monaghan can ill afford to lose him. Kieran Hughes and Niall Kearns have played zero minutes in the league, but Cavan know that Malachy O'Rourke, Monaghan's manager, will have to go with one of them.

Neil McAdam and Gavin Doogan are fine players, but aren't in the mix just now. Fintan Kelly is an outstanding wing back but not really a midfielder. So now Cavan feel they can maybe squeeze things here.

The focus turns to the kickout. In theory Monaghan should elect to go short because Gearoid McKiernan is so strong in the air. Cavan will want to go long for that same reason and make Monaghan contest the middle. All of this was planned for, and yet the game showed that plans can run down blind alleys – you have to be versatile.

It's the old saying. Everyone has a plan until they are hit in the face. In actuality, Monaghan dominated the long kick out in the first half, and Cavan were forced to go short. It just reinforced how excellent and versatile Monaghan are around the breaking ball. So Cavan had to adjust in real time, and they were able to do so because Raymond Galligan is a very smart goalkeeper. Strangely, Monaghan didn't push up to force the issue, and gave Cavan the short kickout.

So managers and squads can plan all we want. And I would have felt this was a key metric in this particular game – the possession stats from kickouts. But the balance is a difficult one. Go short and, yes, you will get 90 per cent plus – and maybe the odd catastrophic mistake from a turnover. Go long and those percentages dip to maybe 60 per cent.


For instance, we played Mayo in the All-Ireland quarter final in 2017. In the drawn game our kickout was at 90 per cent. But that was because Mayo gave us the short kickout – and then challenged us to travel 140m with the ball.

So the statistics looked good afterwards. And Mayo then came up with an almighty full-field press for the first 20 minutes of the replay, and dismantled us and scored heavily in that period.

So it's important to drill deeper as to how and where these kickouts are being won. And what materialised in this Cavan-Monaghan game was that it wasn't the kickouts that ultimately influenced the outcome – it was the efficiency rate.

"Cavan got a justifiable, if arguably soft, penalty in the first half. That utterly changed their mentality

The amount of attacks translated to shots translated to scores: which team was more accurate and efficient decided a Championship match of tight margins.

So how did it pan out? What did the punter learn watching in from over the fence and in the stands?

Well. These are the eternal truths. One is: it's great to have the luxury of picking from a full, healthy squad. It can be a function of luck and also of a good medical team. That was Graham's happy position this weekend.


But contrast that with Monaghan's dilemma: ER on tour. They were falling like flies. And without your best football players, football games become very hard to win. Lose two or three of your best players – and Niall Kearns, remember, was a revelation last year – then you are shifting furniture to make the living room look as good as before the dresser fell apart.

Thirdly, key scores and key moments will, forever and ever, change the dynamic of games. Be they inspired or fortuitous, they change things. Cavan got a justifiable, if arguably soft, penalty in the first half. That utterly changed their mentality and approach. They are seven points up – probably not where they bartered on being. That changes the outlook of both teams and the terms of engagement.

And I felt the game was essentially won in the first half. Monaghan only lost two of their 11 kickouts. Cavan lost four. And yet they went in leading by seven at the break. That flew in the face of statistics. But Monaghan had seven wides to three. And critically, they had four scores from 14 shots on goal.

Cavan had 15 shots and 9 scores – 29 per cent to 60 per cent. Their conversion rate was twice as good. Fatally, Monaghan didn't score from play in that first half. It was a truth from which they could not hide.

You are talking about having the composure to take the score in these situations deserting even the very best. You can even see a top, top player like McManus beginning to snatch because the team is under pressure, he is being double teamed and Cavan are playing with high energy.

And even though Monaghan made a great, honourable fist of coming back in the second half, they left themselves with too much to do.

After games we all look at statistics and metrics. They can tell the story of a game, and they are very informative and interesting. But they don't always have the significance that is apportioned to them. Sometimes, the intangibles matter and they can't be statistically recorded.

We can't know the depth of Cavan's hurt from previous disappointments against Monaghan, or the internal need to cement the legacy of their under-21 Ulster winning teams with a serious senior scalp.
I was chatting to Jonathan Bradley, the former Derry player who lectures in this area in Carlow IT and is a new part of the RTÉ Sunday Game team. We were chatting about the St Brigid's group I was involved in at club level in 2012 and 2013. They were getting fed up of statistical feedback. So we decided we would reduce the season to one basic goal-oriented statistic. What we agreed on, after amendments, was: beat your own first-half score. If you score 0-8 in the first half, then better that in the second. And beat your own first-half total of scores conceded. If you concede 0-6, then concede five or less in the second.

"Cavan see themselves differently now, and are thinking of a pathway to an Ulster final and all of the excitement that entails

We played 40 games that year with that goal in mind. And we never once achieved it – or so I thought. A player rang me a few days ago, and said "we achieved it in the All-Ireland final, Kevin".

And when I checked the score I saw that we did, against Ballymun. That was the first time it happened though. And we won by a single point.

So the point is: what looks like a simple task can be very hard to reach. That goal meant that we kept on playing until the very end. That was a very motivating statistic. And it stood to us that day in 2013.

But whatever about Cavan's aptitude in the statistical breakdown, only they know the absolute want and hunger that went into the game on Saturday night.

Confidence levels

And the ambush was successful. What does that change? Everything. Cavan see themselves differently now, and are thinking of a pathway to an Ulster final and all of the excitement that entails.

And if they get there, think of what that will do for the county. The confidence levels among the younger lads will shoot up.

As Sean Cavanagh said, it was a coming-of-age match for them. They are in a beautiful place in the Championship now – a bubble of contentment and momentum which can only be burst through defeat. Training becomes heightened in energy and application and mood. Cavan's tradition will come to the fore.

All the planning and preparation and waiting will feel like it was worthwhile
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 26, 2020, 09:52:56 PM
El classico is back again next saturday but it could be the most one sided El Classico in a generation as I just cannot see how Cavan will give Monaghan a game. Of course we can only hope, somehow, that Mickey Graham has a few tricks up his sleeve but I don't think so. I dont even have the will to start a row with the mushroom men on this thread such is my dread of this game.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on October 27, 2020, 11:51:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 26, 2020, 09:52:56 PM
El classico is back again next saturday but it could be the most one sided El Classico in a generation as I just cannot see how Cavan will give Monaghan a game. Of course we can only hope, somehow, that Mickey Graham has a few tricks up his sleeve but I don't think so. I dont even have the will to start a row with the mushroom men on this thread such is my dread of this game.
Why do Cavan people most always have the desire to start a row before having a conversation?

Cavan with the advantage of an extra day's r&r.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 28, 2020, 05:17:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 27, 2020, 11:51:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 26, 2020, 09:52:56 PM
El classico is back again next saturday but it could be the most one sided El Classico in a generation as I just cannot see how Cavan will give Monaghan a game. Of course we can only hope, somehow, that Mickey Graham has a few tricks up his sleeve but I don't think so. I dont even have the will to start a row with the mushroom men on this thread such is my dread of this game.
Why do Cavan people most always have the desire to start a row before having a conversation?

Cavan with the advantage of an extra day's r&r.

Why do Monaghan people marry their cousins, its just one of those things I suppose.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on October 28, 2020, 08:53:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 28, 2020, 05:17:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 27, 2020, 11:51:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 26, 2020, 09:52:56 PM
El classico is back again next saturday but it could be the most one sided El Classico in a generation as I just cannot see how Cavan will give Monaghan a game. Of course we can only hope, somehow, that Mickey Graham has a few tricks up his sleeve but I don't think so. I dont even have the will to start a row with the mushroom men on this thread such is my dread of this game.
Why do Cavan people most always have the desire to start a row before having a conversation?

Cavan with the advantage of an extra day's r&r.

Why do Monaghan people marry their cousins, its just one of those things I suppose.
That's not having a championship game conversation, that's just being dumb.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Look-Up! on October 28, 2020, 10:24:27 PM
Ordinarily I'd give us a punchers chance but I think we're very flat looking at moment. There is the derby aspect to it but with the year that's in it I don't know if it'll be a major factor. No crowd, zero atmosphere, I doubt Monaghan will be too phased by it all.
Hope I'm wrong but think they'll settle quickly and pick us off.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: the goal was on on October 28, 2020, 11:08:37 PM
Cavan look like a team with no interest. Got a few hammerings last year at end of year and I think they'll take a 10 + points defeat on sat
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Look-Up! on October 28, 2020, 11:49:00 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on October 28, 2020, 11:08:37 PM
Cavan look like a team with no interest. Got a few hammerings last year at end of year and I think they'll take a 10 + points defeat on sat
Management pretty shambolic looking too. Had young lads in there for Kildare that were apparently ineligible (Kildare had to point it out). Then brought old lads back in with no training under their belt for Rocommon. After all the mantra of minimum 100% commitment only acceptable. You'd wonder what the players are thinking.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 28, 2020, 11:53:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 28, 2020, 08:53:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 28, 2020, 05:17:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 27, 2020, 11:51:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 26, 2020, 09:52:56 PM
El classico is back again next saturday but it could be the most one sided El Classico in a generation as I just cannot see how Cavan will give Monaghan a game. Of course we can only hope, somehow, that Mickey Graham has a few tricks up his sleeve but I don't think so. I dont even have the will to start a row with the mushroom men on this thread such is my dread of this game.
Why do Cavan people most always have the desire to start a row before having a conversation?

Cavan with the advantage of an extra day's r&r.

Why do Monaghan people marry their cousins, its just one of those things I suppose.
That's not having a championship game conversation, that's just being dumb.

Stop marrying them so!

Anyway, it will be a huge shock to me if cavan are within 6 points of Monaghan.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: timmyot501 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
For those of us without sky, is there a way of streaming this match on Saturday? 
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on October 29, 2020, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: timmyot501 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
For those of us without sky, is there a way of streaming this match on Saturday? 

If you know someone who has their TV with Virgin Media they have a 'Sky Go' equivalent. But unlike Sky Go, the person in question will probably not have any devices registered because Virgin Media doesn't have that enough sport to bother setting it up! Speaking from personnel experience.

Sky Sports Mix is available on VM tv, Sky are putting all games on it. Two devices can be set up on it.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 29, 2020, 06:41:42 PM
Quote from: timmyot501 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
For those of us without sky, is there a way of streaming this match on Saturday?

Have you an sndroid box or a firestick or a smart tv?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: armaghniac on October 29, 2020, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: timmyot501 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
For those of us without sky, is there a way of streaming this match on Saturday?

Now TV day pass is €10 or they have 3 month deal for €60 that would see you through the championship.
You might even get a trial for nothing, if you haven't used it before (and your question suggests not).
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: MayoBuck on October 29, 2020, 07:56:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2020, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: timmyot501 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
For those of us without sky, is there a way of streaming this match on Saturday?

Now TV day pass is €10 or they have 3 month deal for €60 that would see you through the championship.
You might even get a trial for nothing, if you haven't used it before (and your question suggests not).

You can get a one month sky sports subscription on NOW tv for 19.50. That would cover their games as all Ireland semi-finals and final will be on RTE.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: imtommygunn on October 29, 2020, 08:04:26 PM
The sky sports mix or whatever you call it channel isn't part of the sky sports package though on standard sky? Is that different for now tv?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: imtommygunn on October 29, 2020, 08:07:07 PM
Ignore me it is different on now tv. I have it on sky without sports.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: marty34 on October 29, 2020, 08:08:03 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on October 29, 2020, 07:56:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2020, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: timmyot501 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
For those of us without sky, is there a way of streaming this match on Saturday?

Now TV day pass is €10 or they have 3 month deal for €60 that would see you through the championship.
You might even get a trial for nothing, if you haven't used it before (and your question suggests not).

You can get a one month sky sports subscription on NOW tv for 19.50. That would cover their games as all Ireland semi-finals and final will be on RTE.

You sure it's not £33 a month for Sky Sports pass on Now Tv?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: MayoBuck on October 29, 2020, 08:19:02 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 29, 2020, 08:08:03 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on October 29, 2020, 07:56:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2020, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: timmyot501 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
For those of us without sky, is there a way of streaming this match on Saturday?

Now TV day pass is €10 or they have 3 month deal for €60 that would see you through the championship.
You might even get a trial for nothing, if you haven't used it before (and your question suggests not).

You can get a one month sky sports subscription on NOW tv for 19.50. That would cover their games as all Ireland semi-finals and final will be on RTE.

You sure it's not £33 a month for Sky Sports pass on Now Tv?

Just checked there and it's €19.50 per month for first 3 months. The BT sports pack is another €17 per month.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 29, 2020, 09:43:51 PM
Install a vpn on your laptop, switch isp to non Ireland and pay to see it on Gaago.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Cavan19 on October 30, 2020, 10:15:37 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 29, 2020, 09:43:51 PM
Install a vpn on your laptop, switch isp to non Ireland and pay to see it on Gaago.

Don't bother with this go down the Now tv route as its better value.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2020, 01:57:24 PM
Monaghan slow to start, but played some good football in this half. They'll need the 7 point lead with the wind favouring Cavan in the second half.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on October 31, 2020, 01:59:06 PM
Half of two halves. Monaghan very strong in the last 15 minutes, Conor McManus showing his class once more.

Monaghan 1-11 Cavan 1-4.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: imtommygunn on October 31, 2020, 01:59:32 PM
It's a reasonably entertaining game. Big gaps in Cavan defense. Monaghan could run away with it second half though. The McManus goal massive for Monaghan.

McManus was shut up after roaring in the goalie's face for the goal lol.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 01:59:35 PM
Our defense is pathetic,  some of the stuff you woukdnt see in junior B. Why wouldn't they play a bit of keep ball when we were 3/4 points up?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on October 31, 2020, 02:00:43 PM
Wouldn't have been happy going in at HT with only a 3/4 point win given that wind, so it was good to finally take a goal chance at the end there. We should have had at least one before that with the chances we created. Wasn't the cleanest finish but great movement and the ball in from Duffy was just perfect. Mansy was only involved a handful of times but it was magic every time. We should be making more use of O'Hanlon too as he has the defence in fits with his speed, he's a good outlet.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 02:10:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2020, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: timmyot501 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
For those of us without sky, is there a way of streaming this match on Saturday?

Now TV day pass is €10 or they have 3 month deal for €60 that would see you through the championship.
You might even get a trial for nothing, if you haven't used it before (and your question suggests not).
This stream is working fine.
cricfree.live/watchfeeds/index/112

Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 02:12:17 PM
Reckon monaghan will win 2nd half with strong running game, cavan haven't a mcmanus to kick scores from 45m
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2020, 02:22:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 02:10:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 29, 2020, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: timmyot501 on October 29, 2020, 11:43:43 AM
For those of us without sky, is there a way of streaming this match on Saturday?

Now TV day pass is €10 or they have 3 month deal for €60 that would see you through the championship.
You might even get a trial for nothing, if you haven't used it before (and your question suggests not).
This stream is working fine.
cricfree.live/watchfeeds/index/112

and they say that Cavan people are tight...
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: RedHand88 on October 31, 2020, 02:25:08 PM
Monaghan seem happy to just see this out. Cavan need to push up.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on October 31, 2020, 02:32:23 PM
Seems like we're happy enough alright to just sit back and keep possession when we have it, and counter attack when given the opportunity.

Makes for a nervy watch though when Cavan continue to add the odd point and when we get turned over in their half. Hopefully we open up a little more as we've got a couple of handy fisted points when we ran at them. Would like to see O'Hanlon fed more as he has the speed for this sort of situation.

Having said that, it's working so far as we're still 6 up and Cavan aren't pressing as much as you'd think they would be with less than 20 minutes left.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2020, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 31, 2020, 02:25:08 PM
Monaghan seem happy to just see this out. Cavan need to push up.

Monaghan reckon they'll score some on the break, Cavan not showing the urgency to make up the gap.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on October 31, 2020, 02:37:45 PM
Monaghan 1-13 to 1-7 ahead 57 minutes played. Big gaps in the Cavan defence for the two points Monaghan scored in this half.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on October 31, 2020, 02:45:30 PM
Being cleaned at midfield now with Cavan pushing up on the kickout. Kearns coming on which is a big boost but it's a tough environment to come into cold after an injury.

Really need to push on here for another couple scores or it'll be a very nervy end.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
Cavan smell blood
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on October 31, 2020, 02:49:11 PM
68 minutes played, Cavan showing great fight in this 2nd half . Monaghan 1-13 Cavan 1-11.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: RedHand88 on October 31, 2020, 02:49:49 PM
Anyone's game now!
Gearoid unplayable.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on October 31, 2020, 02:54:10 PM
Level game. 73 minutes played.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: SouthDublinBro on October 31, 2020, 02:55:32 PM
That's a dive. Pathetic stuff.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on October 31, 2020, 02:56:00 PM
FT 1-13 each.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on October 31, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
Ffs, noone to blame but ourselves. Suicidal tactics of trying to hold onto a lead against a strong wind for a whole half. We lost all momentum we had from the 1st half and handed it over to Cavan. We're lucky they missed a few earlier in the second half or we'd have been gone already.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
McManus had three bad wides in the last five or six minutes

Referee blows up one minute short

Extra time

Cavan will perhaps be annoyed that he blew before time, they had Monaghan on the ropes in a big way

The way Monaghan faded though, you'd still fancy Cavan to finish them off now
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: tonto1888 on October 31, 2020, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on October 31, 2020, 02:55:32 PM
That's a dive. Pathetic stuff.

Was obvious wasn't it
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: tyroneman on October 31, 2020, 02:59:45 PM
Pretty poor by the ref on the dive and even more so on blowing up early. Think Cavan would have had at least 1 opportunity for the win
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 31, 2020, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on October 31, 2020, 02:55:32 PM
That's a dive. Pathetic stuff.

Was obvious wasn't it

His arm was up so no complaints but very annoyed he blew that early when we surely had another shot off in us
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: RedHand88 on October 31, 2020, 03:07:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 03:05:10 PM
A free was given in the 72nd minute. That free was the last play of the game.

Playing for a draw! Sneaky GAA looking to sell another 30k tickets next week for a replay.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 31, 2020, 03:15:08 PM
Fair play to Cavan, another team would have folded up the tent when 7 points down to Monaghan.

Monaghan down to 14 men as I type
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: tonto1888 on October 31, 2020, 03:16:13 PM
Anyone see what the red was for?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on October 31, 2020, 03:16:18 PM
Anyone see what the red was for?

Great leadership by Walshe there stepping up with an important score. Another defender though, the forwards very disappointing since the first half.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on October 31, 2020, 03:17:54 PM
Half time in extra time. Monaghan 1-15 Cavan 1-13. Cavan with the extra man and wind advantage now.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on October 31, 2020, 03:18:46 PM
According to Richard Clerkin the wind has died a bit

Big score from Woods and him only on the pitch. That's brought a bit more life back into us, still going to be an extremely tough second half here with a man down.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 31, 2020, 03:22:34 PM
GAA coverage on Sky not the same without Rachel Wyse.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: marty34 on October 31, 2020, 03:27:28 PM
If Monaghan lose, will Banty be there next year?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on October 31, 2020, 03:27:47 PM
Goal for Cavan. Monaghan level it up straight after. 1-16 to 2-13.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on October 31, 2020, 03:36:40 PM
FT and ET.  Monaghan 1-17 Cavan 2-15.  Some drama. Great comeback win and deserved win for Cavan, showed great character.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 03:37:18 PM
Brilliant fare and hats off to Cavan.

The beauty of the Ulster Championship.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 03:37:24 PM
What a finish

A tale of two goalies

Cavan deserved it
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on October 31, 2020, 03:38:16 PM
We can have zero complaints there, Cavan deserved that.

The optimistic times of Half Time seem so long ago now.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Rudi on October 31, 2020, 03:38:31 PM
What a difference a week makes, well done Cavan.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
Well deserved for Cavan, Monaghan were truly schkite from the 2nd half onwards.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 03:40:36 PM
Sweet f**king jesus but what a win and what a free
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: illdecide on October 31, 2020, 03:41:08 PM
Well done Cavan...was falling asleep on the chair here until i found this game on TV...not sleepy now thanks to that.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 03:42:48 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 31, 2020, 03:27:28 PM
If Monaghan lose, will Banty be there next year?
Banty is yesterday's man

Going from Malachy O'Rourke to Banty is like going from a top of the range Mercedes to a 2005 Fiat Punto
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 03:42:57 PM
There's a lot more for Cavan to give if they can get all their best players involved together.

Hard to see where Monaghan go now. They've done alright at underage in the past few years but McManus, Darren Hughes, Wylie etc are all getting on and they don't really have any of those players from their underage successes standing out yet.

Banty was not the right man for the job.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: illdecide on October 31, 2020, 03:44:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 31, 2020, 03:42:57 PM
There's a lot more for Cavan to give if they can get all their best players involved together.

Hard to see where Monaghan go now. They've done alright at underage in the past few years but McManus, Darren Hughes, Wylie etc are all getting on and they don't really have any of those players from their underage successes standing out yet.

Banty was not the right man for the job.

Ohh FFS will you give it a rest
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Schkite on October 31, 2020, 03:45:43 PM
A large amount of people were against Banty's appointment before he even got the job, so needless to say that contingent will only grow now.

We had a chance to go a different direction after the great work Malachy had done, but we've just went back 10 years.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Onthe40 on October 31, 2020, 03:46:05 PM
Monaghan were absolutely dreadful. Fair play Cavan a after last weeks downer.. and I agree Banty wasn't the right choice
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 31, 2020, 03:47:13 PM
Well done to Cavan, not even their own supporters excepted them to get close to Monaghan nevermind winning today. Loads of soul searching for Monaghan over the winter, very odd that they chose to appoint Banty as manager.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: SHEEDY on October 31, 2020, 03:49:29 PM
Great score to win it. Well deserved win for cavan.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: bigtogs on October 31, 2020, 03:49:57 PM
Is Peter Donnelly Monaghan coach/trainer
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: bigtogs on October 31, 2020, 03:51:46 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: bigtogs on October 31, 2020, 03:49:57 PM
Is Peter Donnelly Monaghan coach/trainer
Looked to be.


Not all he is made out to be either i think....
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: illdecide on October 31, 2020, 03:53:37 PM
Jasus surely Banty was not at fault for the loss, a man of his experience and what he's given Monaghan over the years didn't get Monaghan beat...Combination of a lot of things surely?
You men will know better than me, just an opinion.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: straightred on October 31, 2020, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: Onthe40 on October 31, 2020, 03:46:05 PM
Monaghan were absolutely dreadful. Fair play Cavan a after last weeks downer.. and I agree Banty wasn't the right choice

Banty's dinasaur tactics badly exposed. He was never the right man for the job and the chickens have come home to roost. Well done Cavan for coming back but they should never have been given the chance
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: straightred on October 31, 2020, 03:56:34 PM
Quote from: illdecide on October 31, 2020, 03:53:37 PM
Jasus surely Banty was not at fault for the loss, a man of his experience and what he's given Monaghan over the years didn't get Monaghan beat...Combination of a lot of things surely?
You men will know better than me, just an opinion.

I don't have any inside knowledge but someone had to tell them to play like that in the 2nd half ?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: RedHand88 on October 31, 2020, 03:59:39 PM
Hurling aficionados not one bit happy about the dreaded big ball coverage taking precedence over the gift from the gods.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
 It's easy to say now Banty was the wrong choice after failing miserably at the first hurdle but apparantly it was the senior players who made the persuasive arguments at the time. O'Rourke's last year was dreadful, even more so than this year, perhaps he just escaped in time.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: MayoBuck on October 31, 2020, 04:02:21 PM
Monaghan must have had 3 goal chances where they just fisted the ball over the bar. That lack of killer instinct cost them.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: square_ball on October 31, 2020, 04:03:20 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on October 31, 2020, 04:02:21 PM
Monaghan must have had 3 goal chances where they just fisted the ball over the bar. That lack of killer instinct cost them.

Dessie Ward in particular. A goal there and the game was over.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: straightred on October 31, 2020, 04:05:06 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on October 31, 2020, 04:02:21 PM
Monaghan must have had 3 goal chances where they just fisted the ball over the bar. That lack of killer instinct cost them.

scored 1 from 6 clear cut chances. 2 saved, 1 off the bar (really unlucky) and 2 fisted over the bar.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 31, 2020, 04:11:43 PM
The best news of all for Cavan is if they reach the Ulster final they won't have to play in the Tommy Murphy cup mark 2 next summer. Antrim, Fermanagh or Down standing in their way now.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: MayoBuck on October 31, 2020, 04:13:56 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 31, 2020, 04:11:43 PM
The best news of all for Cavan is if they reach the Ulster final they won't have to play in the Tommy Murphy cup mark 2 next summer. Antrim, Fermanagh or Down standing in their way now.

Surely it would be next summer they'd have to make the Ulster final to avoid tier 2?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
It's easy to say now Banty was the wrong choice after failing miserably at the first hurdle but apparantly it was the senior players who made the persuasive arguments at the time. O'Rourke's last year was dreadful, even more so than this year, perhaps he just escaped in time.
Easy to say now but it was even being said when he was being considered.

Quote from: hardstation on August 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM
Surely it would be a backward step for Monaghan to appoint Banty?
He has proven with a number of counties that he's not great.
But you don't count. There were persuasive forces in the county who thought Banty would be the man to pick up the pieces after that awful last year with O'Rourke. Meath were a basket case and Banty had some form with the Monaghan minors.  I was doubtful just like many other distant observers but there was a decent looking backroom. Now it's easy to say he was the wrong choice, time and place.


Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 05:01:04 PM
Not sure where that performance came from but fair play to our boys for eeking that out. Yes we rode our luck but sometimes you make your own luck. Talk of Banty tactics is fair enough but I thought Graham had blown it too when we refused to push up in the 3rd quarter when we were clearly superior around the middle. He left it till the 4th quarter and we immediately made hay and I think we probably would have won in it in normal time if the ref had to play the right amount of time.

Thomas Galligan, a lad who has shown glimpses of what he is capable of before, came on and was phenomanal, a wrecking ball in the middle that Monaghan just had no answer to. His winning and driving of that very last kick out were what he was all about and what a free from Ray to win it. 55 to 60m out and I thought over all we just deserved it.

In modern times, thats probably a Cavan championship win like no other given we came into that game missing a huge amount of 1st teamers, on the back of relegation, 2 very poor shows and a lot of our prepartions destroyed by COVID. A lot of negativity around and bookies having us at 10/3. Where the lads dug that performance out of I have no idea.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Blowitupref on October 31, 2020, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
It's easy to say now Banty was the wrong choice after failing miserably at the first hurdle but apparantly it was the senior players who made the persuasive arguments at the time. O'Rourke's last year was dreadful, even more so than this year, perhaps he just escaped in time.
Easy to say now but it was even being said when he was being considered.

Quote from: hardstation on August 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM
Surely it would be a backward step for Monaghan to appoint Banty?
He has proven with a number of counties that he's not great.
But you don't count. There were persuasive forces in the county who thought Banty would be the man to pick up the pieces after that awful last year with O'Rourke. Meath were a basket case and Banty had some form with the Monaghan minors.  I was doubtful just like many other distant observers but there was a decent looking backroom. Now it's easy to say he was the wrong choice, time and place.

On news of his appointment you said 

QuoteThis cannot and won't happen
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: bannside on October 31, 2020, 05:50:02 PM
Here we go. Its all Bantys fault. Never saw a manager kicking so many wides. Last year it was pool old Malachy kicking wides too. Who ya want next year?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: the goal was on on October 31, 2020, 05:59:32 PM
Yeah but last year Monaghan missing both Hughes Kearns Mc Carthy and others. Banty had full deck and players had got their first test in a long time over the winter . Cavan were team missing the players this year
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 31, 2020, 06:19:47 PM
Quote from: bannside on October 31, 2020, 05:50:02 PM
Here we go. Its all Bantys fault. Never saw a manager kicking so many wides. Last year it was pool old Malachy kicking wides too. Who ya want next year?

Not all his fault as a number of Monaghans best players went missing. His tactics to sit on 7 point lead played a part in that defeat.  Well done to Cavan on a deserved win, they are a lot better than some of their own supporters was making out, plenty of good footballers that just need to work on their decision making and shot selection.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 06:22:18 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on October 31, 2020, 05:59:32 PM
Yeah but last year Monaghan missing both Hughes Kearns Mc Carthy and others. Banty had full deck and players had got their first test in a long time over the winter . Cavan were team missing the players this year

Was malachi not bet by a point by fermanagh in a semi one time?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 06:24:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 06:22:18 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on October 31, 2020, 05:59:32 PM
Yeah but last year Monaghan missing both Hughes Kearns Mc Carthy and others. Banty had full deck and players had got their first test in a long time over the winter . Cavan were team missing the players this year

Was malachi not bet by a point by fermanagh in a semi one time?
He topped his Super 8 group and reached the All-Ireland semi-final the same year
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 06:24:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 06:22:18 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on October 31, 2020, 05:59:32 PM
Yeah but last year Monaghan missing both Hughes Kearns Mc Carthy and others. Banty had full deck and players had got their first test in a long time over the winter . Cavan were team missing the players this year

Was malachi not bet by a point by fermanagh in a semi one time?
He topped his Super 8 group and reached the All-Ireland semi-final the same year

Well the Banty didn't have a safety net this year in fairness.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Duckquay on October 31, 2020, 06:34:32 PM
Rest assured, had monaghan won ulster this year it would have been conor lavery and peter donnelly getting the kudos. They shouldn't be immune from the criticism that Monaghan will deservedly get.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 06:38:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
It's easy to say now Banty was the wrong choice after failing miserably at the first hurdle but apparantly it was the senior players who made the persuasive arguments at the time. O'Rourke's last year was dreadful, even more so than this year, perhaps he just escaped in time.
Easy to say now but it was even being said when he was being considered.

Quote from: hardstation on August 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM
Surely it would be a backward step for Monaghan to appoint Banty?
He has proven with a number of counties that he's not great.
But you don't count. There were persuasive forces in the county who thought Banty would be the man to pick up the pieces after that awful last year with O'Rourke. Meath were a basket case and Banty had some form with the Monaghan minors.  I was doubtful just like many other distant observers but there was a decent looking backroom. Now it's easy to say he was the wrong choice, time and place.
Banty was grand for Monaghan 12 or 13 years ago

He's old school, he got them organised and motivated the hell out of them and that's grand for getting to a certain level but tactically he couldn't cut it against the big boys - that was shown once and for all in the 2010 Ulster final when what was by then a fading Tyrone team completely dismantled Monaghan tactically

Malachy O'Rourke was on a different level altogether - he gets and understands the modern game and modern players

Banty had already passed his sell by date 10 years ago so I don't know why people thought he would cut it now with what is by now very much a fading Monaghan team



Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2020, 06:48:45 PM
I knew Cavan were a good team... sure they ran our B team to 2 points last week.
A good win for them and serves Monaghan right for all the defensive sh1te after half time. That was the time to try and finish Cavan off.
I presume Banty will now shuffle off to join the othe failed spoofer managers in the retirement lounge.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Orior on October 31, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
Well done Cavan.

On a side note, it was good to see an O'Hanlon on the Monaghan side. Many years ago, O'Hanlons were chieftains of the Orior.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2020, 06:58:04 PM
Quote from: Orior on October 31, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
Well done Cavan.

On a side note, it was good to see an O'Hanlon on the Monaghan side. Many years ago, O'Hanlons were chieftains of the Orior.

Tories, the whole lot of them.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 31, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
I seen some comments about the ref blowing up the game short.

The clock on Sky Sports was stopped for the water break, whereas the 5 minutes that was announced included the stoppage for the water break; that is why it looked like it was blown up short but this happens regularly in this time of Water Breaks.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: marty34 on October 31, 2020, 07:47:51 PM
Is the lad from Kilcoo still with Monaghan or did Donnelly replace him?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 31, 2020, 06:48:45 PM
I knew Cavan were a good team... sure they ran our B team to 2 points last week.
A good win for them and serves Monaghan right for all the defensive sh1te after half time. That was the time to try and finish Cavan off.
I presume Banty will now shuffle off to join the othe failed spoofer managers in the retirement lounge.
Banty won't just shuffle off, he'll have to be booted out.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Rossfan on October 31, 2020, 09:05:02 PM
We have a bit of recent  experience in dumping spoofers if ye want any help ;D
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Smurfy123 on October 31, 2020, 09:12:35 PM
Laverty from Kilcoo along the line with Banty. No experience at senior level. Managed Kilcoo under 16s and minors. Lack of big game experience to call on along the line maybe cost Banty. The were lost along that line
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 06:38:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
It's easy to say now Banty was the wrong choice after failing miserably at the first hurdle but apparantly it was the senior players who made the persuasive arguments at the time. O'Rourke's last year was dreadful, even more so than this year, perhaps he just escaped in time.
Easy to say now but it was even being said when he was being considered.

Quote from: hardstation on August 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM
Surely it would be a backward step for Monaghan to appoint Banty?
He has proven with a number of counties that he's not great.
But you don't count. There were persuasive forces in the county who thought Banty would be the man to pick up the pieces after that awful last year with O'Rourke. Meath were a basket case and Banty had some form with the Monaghan minors.  I was doubtful just like many other distant observers but there was a decent looking backroom. Now it's easy to say he was the wrong choice, time and place.
Banty was grand for Monaghan 12 or 13 years ago

He's old school, he got them organised and motivated the hell out of them and that's grand for getting to a certain level but tactically he couldn't cut it against the big boys - that was shown once and for all in the 2010 Ulster final when what was by then a fading Tyrone team completely dismantled Monaghan tactically

Malachy O'Rourke was on a different level altogether - he gets and understands the modern game and modern players

Banty had already passed his sell by date 10 years ago so I don't know why people thought he would cut it now with what is by now very much a fading Monaghan team

O'Rourke  blew hot and cold. His last year was worse than Banty at his worst.  Another year we lost out to Longford who were deserving winners in Clones.
And always losing out to Tyrone in Croke Park,  3-0 with just one close game which might have gone to a replay. Twice  he used the same brainless tactics, pass across midfield ad nauseum, then eventually run into contact, get ambushed, raped and dispossesed.
O'Rourke's last season was so bad that even a tactically spartan Banty looked a bit decent as a replacement
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: redzone on October 31, 2020, 09:33:10 PM
Yip it's the managers fault even thou the reality is that stupid shot selection in the first half undone them. Manszy carried monaghan for along time and now he's in decline I can't see them reaching the heights they did. Cavan didn't even deserve to win but they will take it.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Zulu on October 31, 2020, 09:35:42 PM
Whether Banty was the right man or not, today's second half tactics, where Monaghan basically tried to see out the game from minute one, were an abomination. Granted, Cavan sat back in the first period of the second half, which was daft too, but Monaghan never tried to kick on at all. You'd wonder if modern managements are overthinking football sometimes.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: trileacman on October 31, 2020, 09:54:48 PM
It's quite bizarre the reaction to Banty losing one match and say Stephen Kenny losing 4 (or is it 5?). A lot of prejudice colours the opinions of many managers and suppose by extension teams also.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 10:10:29 PM
Quote from: Zulu on October 31, 2020, 09:35:42 PM
Whether Banty was the right man or not, today's second half tactics, where Monaghan basically tried to see out the game from minute one, were an abomination. Granted, Cavan sat back in the first period of the second half, which was daft too, but Monaghan never tried to kick on at all. You'd wonder if modern managements are overthinking football sometimes.

An abomination for sure and in the context  of being 7 points up after a good first half where the forwards went full on for goal 4 or 5 times before eventually scoring one, you'd have thought that the way to win the game was nailed on obvious.  Banty moved Hanratty to the right for some wierd reason and nullified his influence when he was making hay on the left. And then decided on tactics to pass it along the Monaghan full back line supposedly to draw out the Cavan players. The only surprise was that it took Cavan so long to cop on to that they had Monaghan beat if they went for it. I can only think that McManus was so frustrated with the plan that he missed every chance he took in the last 1/4 .
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 10:16:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 09:21:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 06:38:03 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 31, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
It's easy to say now Banty was the wrong choice after failing miserably at the first hurdle but apparantly it was the senior players who made the persuasive arguments at the time. O'Rourke's last year was dreadful, even more so than this year, perhaps he just escaped in time.
Easy to say now but it was even being said when he was being considered.

Quote from: hardstation on August 25, 2019, 02:24:44 PM
Surely it would be a backward step for Monaghan to appoint Banty?
He has proven with a number of counties that he's not great.
But you don't count. There were persuasive forces in the county who thought Banty would be the man to pick up the pieces after that awful last year with O'Rourke. Meath were a basket case and Banty had some form with the Monaghan minors.  I was doubtful just like many other distant observers but there was a decent looking backroom. Now it's easy to say he was the wrong choice, time and place.
Banty was grand for Monaghan 12 or 13 years ago

He's old school, he got them organised and motivated the hell out of them and that's grand for getting to a certain level but tactically he couldn't cut it against the big boys - that was shown once and for all in the 2010 Ulster final when what was by then a fading Tyrone team completely dismantled Monaghan tactically

Malachy O'Rourke was on a different level altogether - he gets and understands the modern game and modern players

Banty had already passed his sell by date 10 years ago so I don't know why people thought he would cut it now with what is by now very much a fading Monaghan team

O'Rourke  blew hot and cold. His last year was worse than Banty at his worst.  Another year we lost out to Longford who were deserving winners in Clones.
And always losing out to Tyrone in Croke Park,  3-0 with just one close game which might have gone to a replay. Twice  he used the same brainless tactics, pass across midfield ad nauseum, then eventually run into contact, get ambushed, raped and dispossesed.
O'Rourke's last season was so bad that even a tactically spartan Banty looked a bit decent as a replacement
Two Ulster titles, five quarter-final appearances and an All-Ireland semi-final appearance in seven seasons represents a very good return for O'Rourke

Monaghan moved to another level under him

2018 was the climax for that team, they were in position to reach the final but couldn't close it out

O'Rourke probably stayed a year too long but even the best coaches tend to do that

I think Monaghan were going to be on a downward slope anyway, but whatever the answer was, going back to Banty wasn't it

Banty was with Wexford for a year or two and in truth that's around his level

I fear for Monaghan that they'll shortly be looking back on the O'Rourke era as a golden but distant one





Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 10:20:06 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 31, 2020, 09:54:48 PM
It's quite bizarre the reaction to Banty losing one match and say Stephen Kenny losing 4 (or is it 5?). A lot of prejudice colours the opinions of many managers and suppose by extension teams also.
Prejudice as regards managers is usually based on well founded doubt, it's an arena where those who haven't got it are ruthlessly weeded out

Andy Farrell with the Ireland rugby team is another who falls into this category and it will be very difficult for him to have success I think

It's up to the manager to prove the doubters wrong
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: bannside on October 31, 2020, 10:33:05 PM
Sid I 100% agree with you. Malachy O Rourke had Monaghan performing above themselves for a few seasons that Monaghan supporters started getting grand ideas about themselves at a legitimate top 4 or 6. I think his era will be remembered with fondness in the test of time. He was winning titles with one class act who would make a Dublin team. The Monaghan men on here who would even think about casting anything other than praise on MOR need their heads examined.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: bannside on October 31, 2020, 10:40:06 PM
Back to Banty. For the managerial experts only. Youre 7 points up at HT, at home to a Div 3 team. Youre going out in the 2nd half against the wind. What advice do you give to your team? 

This will be interesting.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: restorepride on October 31, 2020, 10:45:37 PM
The lack of "game management" in the second half was brutal however it is not the manager who shot the wides or missed the goal chances and the flip side is that Monaghan should have been out of sight at halftime.   Players must shoulder the responsibility for on the field decisions they make.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 31, 2020, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: bannside on October 31, 2020, 10:40:06 PM
Back to Banty. For the managerial experts only. Youre 7 points up at HT, at home to a Div 3 team. Youre going out in the 2nd half against the wind. What advice do you give to your team? 

This will be interesting.

A Division 2 team that got relegated to Division 3.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 11:32:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 31, 2020, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: bannside on October 31, 2020, 10:40:06 PM
Back to Banty. For the managerial experts only. Youre 7 points up at HT, at home to a Div 3 team. Youre going out in the 2nd half against the wind. What advice do you give to your team? 

This will be interesting.

A Division 2 team that got relegated to Division 3.

Last yrs ulster finalists, team that beat you by 4 points the previous championship and a your local rival that there's is rarely more than a kick of the ball between you and them in any match.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 11:47:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 11:37:49 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 31, 2020, 11:32:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 31, 2020, 11:18:57 PM
Quote from: bannside on October 31, 2020, 10:40:06 PM
Back to Banty. For the managerial experts only. Youre 7 points up at HT, at home to a Div 3 team. Youre going out in the 2nd half against the wind. What advice do you give to your team? 

This will be interesting.

A Division 2 team that got relegated to Division 3.

Last yrs ulster finalists, team that beat you by 4 points the previous championship and a your local rival that there's is rarely more than a kick of the ball between you and them in any match.
Although, he was right in calling you a Division 3 team. It is where you belong.

Aye maybe, but we never spent a day in Div4 in our history not like ye useless wasters.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: thewobbler on October 31, 2020, 11:48:34 PM
A neutral's perspective on Monaghan today.

Within 10 minutes of throw-in it was obvious that Monaghan were neither playing their opponents nor conditions, but determined to play a pre-ordained system of counterattacking. They had a 25mph breeze and played as if they were facing it.

It didn't really register on me at the time, but in hindsight, were they preparing themselves for "how they must play" to beat the "better teams"?

Then a couple of mins of good play at the end of the half got them out of jail a little.

When the game moved into the second half, it became apparent that they felt they could win the game in second gear. Kill the ball, kill time, pick up a couple of scores, and job done.

The problem with this approach is that they were playing against a 5-point wind. Cavan might not be Dublin, but they've a handful of lads for who a 25mph wind means a 45m kick becomes like a normal 30m kick i.e. upwards on 85% of going over. So unless Monaghan popped in a goal or two, it was always going to be a tight finish. Yet Monaghan showed next to no interest in scoring goals, even when the opportunity came clapping. And even more bizarrely again, they replaced full forwards when their midfield was neither willing nor able to provide them with service.

Extra time first period was chess like. Cavan decided not to push the pedal, but drag their opponents out. That was risky enough, but let's be honest, only for a defender coming on as a forward, who has enough experience to not give one damn what his manager says, it would have played out perfectly.

Then in the second half of extra time, Monaghan kind of got what they deserved. Cavan set them up then hit the knockout blow. They could only done this because Monaghan did not force the fight earlier.

At the end of this game, my summary was that Monaghan underperformed as they were over-coached into trying to play a "smart" game, and distracted from playing their opponent.

It was kind of refreshing that the outstanding players on show were McKiernan and Corrigan. Neither of whom would appear to give a damn about managerial instructions.

Was Banty completely to blame? No, of course not. Half of his team did not show up, and that's on them. But at the same time, would Monaghan have fared better or worse today with a glove puppet in control? Possibly better.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Angelo on November 01, 2020, 01:01:36 AM
The problem with Banty is that he was a very uninspiring appointment, yesterday's man following hot on the heels of a very successful spell for Monaghan.

He had been with a Div 4 side last year and didn't do anything of great significance with them, in fact his record since his first stint in the Monaghan job over a decade ago was very chequered.

O'Rourke had led Monaghan to Div 1 from Div 3 in successive seasons and kept them there for 4/5 seasons, he had brought them their first Ulster title since the 80s, then a second one. He had them regularly at the business end in Croke Park and brought them to an AI SF where they were very close. You look at O'Rourke's record with Monaghan over a sustained period of time and it's superb. Monaghan are a very proud footballing county but they have one of the smallest picks in the country and were mixing with all the big guns.

The main men for O'Rourke in his spell there were more or less all there during Banty's first spell - McManus, Hughes, Corey, Mone, Clerkin, Lennon etc. O'Rourke brought them on another level, you could make a case for Banty saying that the likes of McManus were not in their prime when he was in charge but you could also make the case that O'Rourke had guys like Finlay, Lennon and Tommy Freeman in the twilight of their careers.

Things came to a natural conclusion for O'Rourke but I think if Monaghan wanted to or want to try and keep themselves at the level they were at under the majority of O'Rourke's tenure they need more than someone like Banty can give them.

I think Monaghan have a few problems similar to what Tyrone had in the past few years, they're bringing through some nice forwards but they're too small. Guys like McCarthy and Garland were excellent underage players but they lack the physicality for senior football. As a result they are still too reliant on McManus. Monaghan lack size, they were cleaned out in the middle today. I remember Kieran Hughes as a wrecking ball full forward back in 2013 when Monaghan won Ulster - the demise of Clerkin and Lennon meant he was shifted out to midfield where he's looked a fairly average player since. If they had the ability to leave him inside with McManus in those years, it could have changed everything.

I think Monaghan need a new man at the helm with fresh ideas, Banty for me is just an inferior version of O'Rourke.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: trileacman on November 01, 2020, 01:47:52 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 31, 2020, 10:15:34 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 31, 2020, 09:54:48 PM
It's quite bizarre the reaction to Banty losing one match and say Stephen Kenny losing 4 (or is it 5?). A lot of prejudice colours the opinions of many managers and suppose by extension teams also.
I don't have much interest in Kenny & his situation.
I don't think it's a case that Banty is being hauled over the coals for losing a match though. The issue is that people are wondering how he managed to inveigle his way back into this gig, in that he is punching well above his weight. That hasn't just come about because Monaghan lost today. It started when it emerged that he was even being considered. Of course, the chat about it naturally dies away but today's defeat throws the spotlight on it again.

Who were the alternatives?
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: redzone on November 01, 2020, 07:28:22 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 31, 2020, 11:48:34 PM
A neutral's perspective on Monaghan today.

Within 10 minutes of throw-in it was obvious that Monaghan were neither playing their opponents nor conditions, but determined to play a pre-ordained system of counterattacking. They had a 25mph breeze and played as if they were facing it.

It didn't really register on me at the time, but in hindsight, were they preparing themselves for "how they must play" to beat the "better teams"?

Then a couple of mins of good play at the end of the half got them out of jail a little.

When the game moved into the second half, it became apparent that they felt they could win the game in second gear. Kill the ball, kill time, pick up a couple of scores, and job done.

The problem with this approach is that they were playing against a 5-point wind. Cavan might not be Dublin, but they've a handful of lads for who a 25mph wind means a 45m kick becomes like a normal 30m kick i.e. upwards on 85% of going over. So unless Monaghan popped in a goal or two, it was always going to be a tight finish. Yet Monaghan showed next to no interest in scoring goals, even when the opportunity came clapping. And even more bizarrely again, they replaced full forwards when their midfield was neither willing nor able to provide them with service.

Extra time first period was chess like. Cavan decided not to push the pedal, but drag their opponents out. That was risky enough, but let's be honest, only for a defender coming on as a forward, who has enough experience to not give one damn what his manager says, it would have played out perfectly.

Then in the second half of extra time, Monaghan kind of got what they deserved. Cavan set them up then hit the knockout blow. They could only done this because Monaghan did not force the fight earlier.

At the end of this game, my summary was that Monaghan underperformed as they were over-coached into trying to play a "smart" game, and distracted from playing their opponent.

It was kind of refreshing that the outstanding players on show were McKiernan and Corrigan. Neither of whom would appear to give a damn about managerial instructions.

Was Banty completely to blame? No, of course not. Half of his team did not show up, and that's on them. But at the same time, would Monaghan have fared better or worse today with a glove puppet in control? Possibly better.
Thats a great summary.
Monaghan had 2 pts in the second half, both fisted efforts and hadn't a kicked attempt at a point in 30 mins.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: giveballaghback on November 02, 2020, 06:43:45 PM
Congrats Cavan, well done, some achievement after being so unluckely relegated.
Target now Ulster final and who knows after that.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: restorepride on November 02, 2020, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 02, 2020, 06:43:45 PM
Congrats Cavan, well done, some achievement after being so unluckely relegated.
Target now Ulster final and who knows after that.
I totally agree - well done An Cabhán!  Great work done underage and under 21 in recent years and gradually getting the credit deserved.  Big chance of Ulster title.
Title: Re: El Classico - Breffni Park, Saturday 18th
Post by: Itchy on November 03, 2020, 11:40:00 AM
Quote from: restorepride on November 02, 2020, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: giveballaghback on November 02, 2020, 06:43:45 PM
Congrats Cavan, well done, some achievement after being so unluckely relegated.
Target now Ulster final and who knows after that.
I totally agree - well done An Cabhán!  Great work done underage and under 21 in recent years and gradually getting the credit deserved.  Big chance of Ulster title.

No, unfortunately we are well off Donegals level and I imagine if we can beat Antrim, I'd expect to play Down and they would give us lots of it too. Anyone on our side of the draw would be huge outsiders against Donegal in the final when I image they will dispose of Armagh.