Burns wants rid of Tricolour & Anthem to attract Protestants to GAA

[foxcommander]

Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.

Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.

It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.

Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?

No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?

Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?

I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.

Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?

[Maguire01]

Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.

Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.

It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.

Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?

No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?

Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?

I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.

Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?

Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.

[general_lee]

Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.

Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.

It would mean a hell of a lot more to me if the state that uses it had shown any sort of courage or back bone to protect those citizens it conveniently forgot about and continues to forget about in the north. Taking into consideration the lyrics I find it hypocritical to say the least - but that's an argument for another day. I show the anthem due respect in any case whenever it is played.

Long story short I wouldn't care a jot if the anthem was removed from most games, if not all. It's not really that important in the grand scheme of things.

[foxcommander]

Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.

Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.

It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.

Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?

No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?

Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?

I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.

Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?

Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.

I fail to see how it's way off topic. Use of the flag and anthem is divisive in your opinion (and the opinion of many with GAA interests). It's either a yes or no answer. Which one eh?

[foxcommander]

It would mean a hell of a lot more to me if the state that uses it had shown any sort of courage or back bone to protect those citizens it conveniently forgot about and continues to forget about in the north. Taking into consideration the lyrics I find it hypocritical to say the least - but that's an argument for another day.

Couldn't agree more...

[Maguire01]

Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.

Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.

It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.

Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?

No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?

Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?

I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.

Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?

Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.

I fail to see how it's way off topic. Use of the flag and anthem is divisive in your opinion (and the opinion of many with GAA interests). It's either a yes or no answer. Which one eh?

I never actually said their use was divisive. I just consider them unnecessary at a match. That's why the context is relevant. For example, GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying when the Queen is somewhere on a state visit = appropriate. GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying at Northern Ireland matches at Windsor = not so appropriate. Context.

[omaghjoe]

This has descended into farce Unsurprisingly

On one side you have some posters with the tired and tested fire and brimstone nationalistic BS. That the GAA is Irish, the tricolour is Irish therefore it should be flown...blah blah blah

Then on the other hand you have the progressive, mature as nation morons who wish to disassociate with the above posters and see the best way of doing that to oppose any of their positions. "Worn out novelty" is one of the worst reasonings I've ever heard

Neither have good reasoning IMO. The nats at least have a position based on the status quo but they tend to be a dangerous, incitful (sic), froth at the mouth bunch.
The progs postion is usually rather laughably based on what the opposite of the nats is, and appear more reasonable but then if you disagree, the sneering and demonising starts.

[Eamonnca1]

There are legitimate arguments to be had on both sides of this. I can understand why people would argue that the GAA is a nationalist organization and shouldn't be ashamed of it. That's a well-intentioned sentiment, but keeping divisive symbolism is ultimately self-defeating. If you want to keep such an exclusive identity then knock yourself out, but don't be surprised if your growth is limited because only a certain type of person wants to join in with the games. But if we want more people to play the games and want them to appreciate Irish culture, then you have to give some serious thought to the way the organization is perceived and consider the possibility of making it more accessible.

A lot of people seem to be missing the distinction between politics and culture here, which is unsurprising given the way culture has been weaponized for years. There are northern protestants who clearly don't want to get involved with the politics of Irish nationalism, but on the other hand they would have an interest in the culture of the country. If we don't reach out to them and make some sort of gesture then we're missing an opportunity.

The thing about politics is it's not one of those topics you bring up in polite company, because as soon as you declare your allegiance then you've just alienated half the people in the room. For the GAA to effectively do the same thing and alienate half the people in the north  doesn't make a whole lot of sense. 

[omaghjoe]

There are legitimate arguments to be had on both sides of this. I can understand why people would argue that the GAA is a nationalist organization and shouldn't be ashamed of it. That's a well-intentioned sentiment, but keeping divisive symbolism is ultimately self-defeating. If you want to keep such an exclusive identity then knock yourself out, but don't be surprised if your growth is limited because only a certain type of person wants to join in with the games. But if we want more people to play the games and want them to appreciate Irish culture, then you have to give some serious thought to the way the organization is perceived and consider the possibility of making it more accessible.

A lot of people seem to be missing the distinction between politics and culture here, which is unsurprising given the way culture has been weaponized for years. There are northern protestants who clearly don't want to get involved with the politics of Irish nationalism, but on the other hand they would have an interest in the culture of the country. If we don't reach out to them and make some sort of gesture then we're missing an opportunity.

The thing about politics is it's not one of those topics you bring up in polite company, because as soon as you declare your allegiance then you've just alienated half the people in the room. For the GAA to effectively do the same thing and alienate half the people in the north  doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Spot on Eamonn.
Precisely what I've been trying to say only with a nice practical scenario.

[general_lee]

"Worn out novelty" is one of the worst reasonings I've ever heard

Why? Because it's actually true? You might enjoy shallow and meaningless displays of patriotism where you are but it gets kinda tiresome for me when at every club game we get subjected to it being dragged out and half the crowd mumbling along pretending to know the lyrics. Sure even big intercounty championship matches the last 5 seconds are usually lost because the crowd start roaring.

[doodaa]

Will the removal of the anthem and flag from GAA games encourage an influx of northern protestants to take up the sport?
Id argue that some would, most wouldn't. Most would still find fault and an excuse not to play. Most still see the GAA as the IRA at play. I'm not sure if that perception will ever change.

So is there a benefit to the GAA community, as we are now, for the removal of the flag and anthem?

Some are saying it is outdated/ not with the times/ a worn out novelty.

For me I've stood on the pitch facing the tricolour with clubmates & county mates in big matches with the anthem playing and the hairs just stand up on the back of my neck and a lump forms in my throat.
So, for me, I would miss them if they were removed.

[foxcommander]

Even if it doesn't encourage more unionists it's a played out novelty that has worn off.

Has it now? That's your throwaway attitude towards it. Means nothing to you obviously.

It's an opinion shared by most of the contributors on this thread, all of whom are here as they have a shared interest in GAA.

Shouldn't the national anthem just be banned altogether this being the case? Is that what you're saying?

No, it isn't. Are you reading words that aren't there?

Should it be removed from other sporting occasions too? What about that rugby crowd using it?

I'm not too concerned with what other sports or sporting occasions do.

Surely the president or taoiseach should refrain from using the anthem at their ceremonies too if it's deemed divisive? Or have you no opinion on that either?

Now you're going way off topic just to try and pick an argument. I have no issue with the Taoiseach or President using the anthem, given that such scenarios are in the realm of politics and state functions, where anthems and flags are relevant. But as i've said, that's way off topic. This discussion is about the use of flags and anthems in the context of the GAA.

I fail to see how it's way off topic. Use of the flag and anthem is divisive in your opinion (and the opinion of many with GAA interests). It's either a yes or no answer. Which one eh?

I never actually said their use was divisive. I just consider them unnecessary at a match. That's why the context is relevant. For example, GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying when the Queen is somewhere on a state visit = appropriate. GSTQ playing and the Union Jack flying at Northern Ireland matches at Windsor = not so appropriate. Context.

Unnecessary because you dislike it. Either you deem it divisive or not in any situation - it's the same song wherever. Your "context" argument is invalid.

Watching Enda stand to attention of the flag and anthem of the people he's betrayed makes me nauseous. If you really want rid of it start there.

[omaghjoe]

"Worn out novelty" is one of the worst reasonings I've ever heard

Why? Because it's actually true? You might enjoy shallow and meaningless displays of patriotism where you are but it gets kinda tiresome for me when at every club game we get subjected to it being dragged out and half the crowd mumbling along pretending to know the lyrics. Sure even big intercounty championship matches the last 5 seconds are usually lost because the crowd start roaring.

Here goes the demonising
A quick read of a couple of my posts in this thread and you will find your blindside is completely wide of the mark

To answer your question...No. Because "Worn out novelty" doesnt make any sense, let alone be true. Here why...

1. Its not a novelty, it has been around for donkey's ages
2. Every novelty becomes worn out
3. Because its subjective opinion wether its worn out or not

[Pub Bore]

Official Guide 2015

1.2  The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.

Before we get to the fleg and the anthem, surely this bit is the one the vast majority of Northern Unionists might have a problem with??  To say nothing of this...

1.4  The Association shall actively support the Irish language, traditional Irish dancing, music, song, and other aspects of Irish culture. It shall foster an awareness and love of the national ideals in the people of Ireland...

To be honest I have to say that spending a lot of time and resources to attract Northern Unionists to embrace the GAA is a complete waste of time/energy/money.  You've as much chance of attracting Namibians to the Association.

[foxcommander]

Official Guide 2015

1.4  The Association shall actively support the Irish language, traditional Irish dancing, music, song, and other aspects of Irish culture. It shall foster an awareness and love of the national ideals in the people of Ireland...

You've as much chance of attracting Namibians to the Association.

There's a lot more to get rid of than a flag and an anthem if we're to "reach out" to unionists, curry my yougurt.


South Africa beat Namibia to become 2018 All-Ireland champions