Should Sinn Féin now take their seats in Westminster?

[muppet]

In the post GFA world and with SF looking a strong possibility of being in Government in the 26 next time out, should they re-consider their abstentionism, especially as they could have the swing votes in a very tight vote in the House of Commons?

There is the possibility the SF abstention could allow the Unionists to get a Tory Government over the line, with the inevitable political favours returned to Unionists. Would the political fallout be worth it to stop that happening and, better still, direct the favours in their direction?

[Rossfan]

Presumably taking an oath of allegiance to a foreign monarch is beyond their stomachs' capabilities.

[deiseach]

I think I've made clear my disdain for the Shinners, but people voting for them are under no illusions about SF's policy and their four MP's are not going to make a difference. If a Tory/DUP combination managed to get up to 323 seats, that would be enough to govern even if the majority required suddenly became 325 thanks to SF puckering up to Lizzie Windsor.

Short answer: no.

[Keyboard Warrior]

In the post GFA world and with SF looking a strong possibility of being in Government in the 26 next time out, should they re-consider their abstentionism, especially as they could have the swing votes in a very tight vote in the House of Commons?

There is the possibility the SF abstention could allow the Unionists to get a Tory Government over the line, with the inevitable political favours returned to Unionists. Would the political fallout be worth it to stop that happening and, better still, direct the favours in their direction?

Just a few points on this:

The UK house of commons has 650 seats. At the last general election Sinn Fein had 5 MPs. Minuscule in comparison.

The topic of Sinn Fein taking their seats is largely driven by the self generated 'importance' that the DUP may play in the event of a hung parliament.  The DUP can enter a coalition in order to gain favours for themselves, but for Sinn Fein this would not be possible as no other party would enter into coalition with them. Simply look how demonised the SNP are for daring to vote for independence.

In short, their policy of abstentionism is a vote winner, but taking Westminster seats and swearing an oath to the Queen would loose them swathes of core support. So no.

[Pub Bore]

A hung parliament is for five years, dropping abstentionism is for life

None of the Brit parties will work with SF.

A sure fire vote loser in the North.

[Pub Bore]

"A sure fire vote loser in the North."

What about the south?

I doubt it would increase their vote and would probably lose some of the traditional Republican vote.  As another poster said people in the North who vote SF are well aware that they don't take their seats so the abstention policy mustn't be a big factor in the decisions to vote SF

[theticklemister]

Look at things Provisional Sinn Fein have said over the years..................

Not an once not a bullet

No return to Stormont

No entry to the Dail

No meeting with the Queen

They will of course enter Westminster. If they do not do this in the next 5 years I will be very surprised. They have lost their 'Republican' principles a long time ago and this is another step.

[Pub Bore]

It might not increase their vote in the south, but they could lose quite a bit. Sinn Feins base in there is more leftish compared to the north.

Everyone knows that SF stand on an absention policy in the north. The thing is that it never has mattered before and Westminster elections anyway usually don't matter here that much. It is unlikely that it will matter in a weeks time either, but there is an outside chance they could be put in a position to decide between either absention or have a real chance to "stop Tory cuts". Either way they risk losing votes and not gaining much, and SF would rather that did not happen.

My own opinion is that Sinn Fein will retain their five constituencies in Westminster but other than Michelle Gildernew in Fermanagh and South Tyrone, their majorities in the other four seats will be smaller than five years ago.

There's not a lot I'd disagree with here Cletus.  The "problem" may be that you can't dip in and out of abstentionism.  Once you're in Westminster, you're in for good and while a hung parliament may present opportunities during the next five years, a big working majority for the Cons or Lab in 2020 would reduce SF to insignificant by-standers.  I'd never say never but maybe the 2025 election might be more realistic depending on events.

By the way if you stop "Tory Cuts" you simply enable "Labour Cuts" which will be every bit as painful.

On the SF vote again, I broadly agree.  Nationalist/Republicans in the North are beginning to display voter fatigue and apathy.

[deiseach]

I don't see the Shinners ditching abstentionism any time soon. I'm sure they have a price for this particular principle, but why would Westminster pay the price they would demand?

[Farrandeelin]

It might not increase their vote in the south, but they could lose quite a bit. Sinn Feins base in there is more leftish compared to the north.

Everyone knows that SF stand on an absention policy in the north. The thing is that it never has mattered before and Westminster elections anyway usually don't matter here that much. It is unlikely that it will matter in a weeks time either, but there is an outside chance they could be put in a position to decide between either absention or have a real chance to "stop Tory cuts". Either way they risk losing votes and not gaining much, and SF would rather that did not happen.

My own opinion is that Sinn Fein will retain their five constituencies in Westminster but other than Michelle Gildernew in Fermanagh and South Tyrone, their majorities in the other four seats will be smaller than five years ago.

Do you think Michelle Gildernew will make it? It's going to be interesting to see whether she does or not with only one Unionist standing in FST.

[An Watcher]

I wouldn't like to see sinn fein take their seats in Westminister.  It would be a further link to GB when we're trying to break those links.  Sitting at Stormont is more than enough at this stage. If someone said it would bring us closer to aunited IIreland I still don't think I could stomach it.

[Kidder81]

I wouldn't like to see sinn fein take their seats in Westminister.  It would be a further link to GB when we're trying to break those links.  Sitting at Stormont is more than enough at this stage. If someone said it would bring us closer to aunited IIreland I still don't think I could stomach it.

What links are they breaking ?

[muppet]

It might not increase their vote in the south, but they could lose quite a bit. Sinn Feins base in there is more leftish compared to the north.

Everyone knows that SF stand on an absention policy in the north. The thing is that it never has mattered before and Westminster elections anyway usually don't matter here that much. It is unlikely that it will matter in a weeks time either, but there is an outside chance they could be put in a position to decide between either absention or have a real chance to "stop Tory cuts". Either way they risk losing votes and not gaining much, and SF would rather that did not happen.

My own opinion is that Sinn Fein will retain their five constituencies in Westminster but other than Michelle Gildernew in Fermanagh and South Tyrone, their majorities in the other four seats will be smaller than five years ago.

There's not a lot I'd disagree with here Cletus.  The "problem" may be that you can't dip in and out of abstentionism.  Once you're in Westminster, you're in for good and while a hung parliament may present opportunities during the next five years, a big working majority for the Cons or Lab in 2020 would reduce SF to insignificant by-standers.  I'd never say never but maybe the 2025 election might be more realistic depending on events.

By the way if you stop "Tory Cuts" you simply enable "Labour Cuts" which will be every bit as painful.

On the SF vote again, I broadly agree.  Nationalist/Republicans in the North are beginning to display voter fatigue and apathy.

I think they do a half arsed job of abstentionism. They run for House of Commons elections, wins seat in Her Majesty's Parliament, take the money and then refuse to go.

IMHO they should either encourage all nationalists to completely boycott the House of Commons elections (i.e. don't vote at all) or run candidates who will refuse take part in any way, including taking the money whether or not they win.

Taking it a step further they could refuse to pay taxes to the Crown as well. If the reply is that they are dependent on British money, which would be cut off, then they really need to think about that. Such a strategy would cause a lot of short term pain but in the long run it would bring the issue to a head. Whether a final solution would be achieved or not is debatable.

But for me they either go along with it, or go completely against it, not the half-arsed situation we have now.