upcoming public worker strikes in the north

[charlieTully]

As a public sector worker my union has been balloted on strike action and it looks a certainty. Various reasons have been put forward. lack of pay increases despite independent pay review recommdations. Cuts in front line services. Increase in pension contributions with less payout. Decrease in special duty payments. I am curious to know the thoughts of private sector workers on the proposed strike. Are we expecting too much in the public sector at this time of austerity?

[screenexile]

Hard to know. I have a few questions:

1. Are pay increases incumbent on performance? If not then they should be. If I want a pay rise in the private sector I need to ask for one and I damn sure have to justify why they should give it to me.

2. How much better will Public Sector pensions still be than those in the private sector. Is it a Defined Benefit or Defined Contribution scheme? Very very very few pensions are DB in the public sector.

3. What are special duty payments?

Public Sector is a funny thing because of the vast array of professions it encompasses. Some professions deserve the benefits outlined above but quite a lot don't. My opinions on it would vary depending on the job/department.

[muppet]

As a public sector worker my union has been balloted on strike action and it looks a certainty. Various reasons have been put forward. lack of pay increases despite independent pay review recommdations. Cuts in front line services. Increase in pension contributions with less payout. Decrease in special duty payments. I am curious to know the thoughts of private sector workers on the proposed strike. Are we expecting too much in the public sector at this time of austerity?

What is the objective of the strike and who are the targeted decision makers? Is it Downing Street or can the cuts be overturned locally? Is there a definite possibility of success or is it simply a union justifying its existence?

[charlieTully]

health care would be my area. In terms of performance related pay one has to meet certain standards to move through what is known as gateways to move to the next increment on the pay scale. The actual salary has been frozen this past 4 years or so. No increase in line with inflation etc.
The pension age has been increased to 70, Where people in the job before could retire at 55 with lump sum and yearly pension. Both are being decreased. I don't fully understand the current pension scheme tbh.
Special duty payments are extra rates for weekends and night shifts.
It's hard to see a strike resulting in change given the fact the DUP and SF are in agreement on the cuts. The irony is they will have representatives standing on picket lines in local areas.

[Lecale2]

Is there a definite possibility of success or is it simply a union justifying its existence?

The second point I'd say. A one day strike never achieved anything in my experience other than cost the striking workers a days pay.

[seafoid]

health care would be my area. In terms of performance related pay one has to meet certain standards to move through what is known as gateways to move to the next increment on the pay scale. The actual salary has been frozen this past 4 years or so. No increase in line with inflation etc.
The pension age has been increased to 70, Where people in the job before could retire at 55 with lump sum and yearly pension. Both are being decreased. I don't fully understand the current pension scheme tbh.
Special duty payments are extra rates for weekends and night shifts.
It's hard to see a strike resulting in change given the fact the DUP and SF are in agreement on the cuts. The irony is they will have representatives standing on picket lines in local areas.

The only way your union can make progress on this, Charlie, is to unite with other groups who are losing out. The insight they need goes way above SF or DUP talking points. It's about Tory economic policy and whether or not it works. IMO it doesn't.

Osborne promised to reduce the deficit to zero by the next election which is in May. He couldn't.
Why not? Because wages are not increasing as expected. So the tax take is down.
The deficit is now 5% of GDP.

The Tory response is to slash public spending. Except pensions. Because in England pensioners are more likely to vote Tory.
So people in other areas get the cuts.   

Will cuts to public spending get the economy going again ? Probably not.
Why not? Because the only time the UK economy has done well recently is when fiscal policy has been loose (ie deficits have been run up)
 
  http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/88227ee6-7729-11e4-8273-00144feabdc0.html

"Yet the second phase of fiscal consolidation will take place against a very different economic background from 2010-12.
Then, budget consolidation was part of an integrated plan with the Bank of England to change the mix of fiscal and monetary policy. The Treasury accepted that fiscal tightening in isolation would reduce the growth of aggregate demand, but believed that quantitative easing by the bank, and a weaker exchange rate, would restore growth and rebalance the economy.

Whether this strategy proved successful is still a matter of dispute. Those who, like myself, supported the new policy mix, must concede that the economic recovery was initially very subdued, only gaining momentum when there was a pause in fiscal tightening.
The bank presumably thinks that monetary conditions are already expansionary, and that the private sector is now growing robustly enough to allow both fiscal and monetary policy to be tightened together. But that is doubtful.

Back in 2010, the private sector was so risk averse that it was running an enormous financial surplus. It had responded to the crisis by increasing savings and reducing investment to an unprecedented extent. As confidence was restored, its surplus was run down by 10 per cent of GDP from 2010 to 2014. This boosted consumption and investment, creating conditions in which fiscal policy could be tightened without holding back an economic recovery.But, from here, it would be rare for the private sector to shift substantially into financial deficit by increasing its expenditure further relative to income.  Growth in private activity will therefore need to come from a rise in income, especially wages, not from falling savings ratios. That will be a more difficult process, especially if fiscal policy is being tightened at the same time. The second phase of the fiscal correction may therefore be even harder to attain than the first. A simultaneous contraction in both fiscal and monetary policy looks problematic: something will surely have to give."


Workers (private and public sector)  need higher wages , basically. Otherwise there will be more cuts and no growth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7MwXniOD44

[Hereiam]

The conditions that nurse's in particular work under needs to be highlighted. My wife works in the mental health area and she works 12hr shifts sometimes without a break and she rarely gets away on time because the ward is under staffed. In the private sector this would be dealt with but its just expected on most hospital wards.

[charlieTully]

The conditions that nurse's in particular work under needs to be highlighted. My wife works in the mental health area and she works 12hr shifts sometimes without a break and she rarely gets away on time because the ward is under staffed. In the private sector this would be dealt with but its just expected on most hospital wards.

yes, very true, and expected for free basically, no overtime or time in lieu given, just expected to get on with it. Under the last review, agenda for change an agreement was in place any overtime was to be payed at at time and a half, the trusts just scraped overtime. But now they have ended up having to spend vast sums of money to agencies to supply staff to cover shifts. If there are job cuts the NHS will not survive it.

[seafoid]

The conditions that nurse's in particular work under needs to be highlighted. My wife works in the mental health area and she works 12hr shifts sometimes without a break and she rarely gets away on time because the ward is under staffed. In the private sector this would be dealt with but its just expected on most hospital wards.

yes, very true, and expected for free basically, no overtime or time in lieu given, just expected to get on with it. Under the last review, agenda for change an agreement was in place any overtime was to be payed at at time and a half, the trusts just scraped overtime. But now they have ended up having to spend vast sums of money to agencies to supply staff to cover shifts. If there are job cuts the NHS will not survive it.

The NHS is under real pressure with flat budgets because the population is getting older and older people need more care which is more expensive.

[charlieTully]

The conditions that nurse's in particular work under needs to be highlighted. My wife works in the mental health area and she works 12hr shifts sometimes without a break and she rarely gets away on time because the ward is under staffed. In the private sector this would be dealt with but its just expected on most hospital wards.

yes, very true, and expected for free basically, no overtime or time in lieu given, just expected to get on with it. Under the last review, agenda for change an agreement was in place any overtime was to be payed at at time and a half, the trusts just scraped overtime. But now they have ended up having to spend vast sums of money to agencies to supply staff to cover shifts. If there are job cuts the NHS will not survive it.

The NHS is under real pressure with flat budgets because the population is getting older and older people need more care which is more expensive.

there has been serious mismanagement of funds as well though, the review of public administration resulted in lot of middle managers receiving early redundcies with nice packages, a year or so later they are all back in slightly different roles, not dissimilar to the patton scenario where RUC members got big packages and were all back in various guises.
Then there is the pension packages for top managers, John Compton the brains behind transforming your care is in line for a 1.6 million package, for what is essentially a failed project. should such failure be rewarded?,meanwhile a nurse cannot get a 1% pay rise. The money does seem to be there, its just being prioritised in the wrong way.IMO.

[johnneycool]

The conditions that nurse's in particular work under needs to be highlighted. My wife works in the mental health area and she works 12hr shifts sometimes without a break and she rarely gets away on time because the ward is under staffed. In the private sector this would be dealt with but its just expected on most hospital wards.

yes, very true, and expected for free basically, no overtime or time in lieu given, just expected to get on with it. Under the last review, agenda for change an agreement was in place any overtime was to be payed at at time and a half, the trusts just scraped overtime. But now they have ended up having to spend vast sums of money to agencies to supply staff to cover shifts. If there are job cuts the NHS will not survive it.

The NHS is under real pressure with flat budgets because the population is getting older and older people need more care which is more expensive.

there has been serious mismanagement of funds as well though, the review of public administration resulted in lot of middle managers receiving early redounds with nice packages, a year or so later they are all back in slightly different roles, not dissimilar to the patton scenario where RUC members got big packages and were all back in various guises.
Then there is the pension packages for top managers, John Compton the brains behind transforming your care is in line for a 1.6 million package, for what is essentially a failed project. should such failure be rewarded?,meanwhile a nurse cannot get a 1% pay rise. The money does seem to be there, its just being prioritised in the wrong way.IMO.

There is serious mismanagement of the NHS at senior level in NI. As Charlie pointed out, there was to be a reduction of trusts with the previous heads pensioned off on huge payouts, only to return some months later in 'advisory' roles and what not. Made of farce of the whole thing.

Not to mention the new HQ's built by some health trusts, totally unwarranted.

But they're untouchable, screw the nurses for a few percent year on year!

[DickyRock]

It does annoy me when public sector workers are striking for pay/benefits. In this regard they do very well compared to the private sector.

I would be more supportive if they where trying to tackle the working conditions of front line workers. I think it's a disgrace what is expected of a them. Giving pay rises does not help this situation and one could argue that it is counterproductive in solving it as the cost of hiring just increases putting more pressure on the front line.

I know NI water is not public sector anymore but the mentality is still there - they had a 20% pension contribution and where asked to contribute an extra 3% themselves and they go on strike. What happens they get a pay rise to cover the contributions backdated to last April . On call contributions increased and backdated. And the icing on the cake is that they don't have to contribute to the increase for maybe two years. That's the shit that annoys me

[CiKe]

Pensions are joke. Retiring at 55 on a defined benefit scheme? For f*ck sake that means the average joe swans about for 25 years at current life expectancies.

Remember hearing that actuaries estimate that for 2/3 final salary payout you need to contribute 30-35% of gross pay. Now ok it maybe now doesn't reach that in the public sector at 20% but in the private sector you would be lucky to get 5%. Bottom line is that for most if you want 2/3 salary lifestyle upon retirement you better be thinking about developing skills for a second job when you do retire - unless you get on one of these cushy merry go rounds you mention in the public sector...

In private sector there wouldn't be too many have seen wage increases in last few years in line with inflation. Wages increases for an effective promotion is a different things and have no problem with that.

I'd have a lot of sympathy for medical staff and shift pay, particularly nurses, but not a jot of sympathy for vast majority of teachers!

[johnneycool]

It does annoy me when public sector workers are striking for pay/benefits. In this regard they do very well compared to the private sector.

I would be more supportive if they where trying to tackle the working conditions of front line workers. I think it's a disgrace what is expected of a them. Giving pay rises does not help this situation and one could argue that it is counterproductive in solving it as the cost of hiring just increases putting more pressure on the front line.

I know NI water is not public sector anymore but the mentality is still there - they had a 20% pension contribution and where asked to contribute an extra 3% themselves and they go on strike. What happens they get a pay rise to cover the contributions backdated to last April . On call contributions increased and backdated. And the icing on the cake is that they don't have to contribute to the increase for maybe two years. That's the shit that annoys me

No they didn't. they worked to rule.

The fact that NI Water was reliant on staff doing overtime and what not just to maintain the service yet again points to poor senior management, the biggest problem facing the public services but never going to be addressed, just throw out the broad sweeping 'public sector workers are a disgrace' line.

[muppet]

It does annoy me when public sector workers are striking for pay/benefits. In this regard they do very well compared to the private sector.

I would be more supportive if they where trying to tackle the working conditions of front line workers. I think it's a disgrace what is expected of a them. Giving pay rises does not help this situation and one could argue that it is counterproductive in solving it as the cost of hiring just increases putting more pressure on the front line.

I know NI water is not public sector anymore but the mentality is still there - they had a 20% pension contribution and where asked to contribute an extra 3% themselves and they go on strike. What happens they get a pay rise to cover the contributions backdated to last April . On call contributions increased and backdated. And the icing on the cake is that they don't have to contribute to the increase for maybe two years. That's the shit that annoys me

No they didn't. they worked to rule.

The fact that NI Water was reliant on staff doing overtime and what not just to maintain the service yet again points to poor senior management, the biggest problem facing the public services but never going to be addressed, just throw out the broad sweeping 'public sector workers are a disgrace' line.

A work to rule is considered industrial action in the South. Dunno about the North.