A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

[johnnycool]

As I stated a few time, I don't know why the UUP aren't going to town on the DUP over this.

Because Submariner Steve is as think as shit and rather than try and get the middle ground back from Alliance he's trying to outdo the DUP in being so loyal and never never never on anything and he's never going to succeed there........

[Eire90]

They  voted for brexit now they moan and blame republicans and nationalists they are also terrified of the tories you never see them criticising their precious tories.

[Eire90]

what difference would an united ireland make about ordering from amazon

[BennyCake]

They  voted for brexit now they moan and blame republicans and nationalists they are also terrified of the tories you never see them criticising their precious tories.

Are these the same Tories that chucked them on the shitheap when they had served their purpose? Then again, what's the alternative to criticising the Tories? Siding with SF? Building for a United Ireland? Yeah, that could happen.

[6th sam]

As I stated a few time, I don't know why the UUP aren't going to town on the DUP over this.

Because Submariner Steve is as think as shit and rather than try and get the middle ground back from Alliance he's trying to outdo the DUP in being so loyal and never never never on anything and he's never going to succeed there........

From
A unionist perspective he could be very smart. Unionists best chance of short term survival is to merge DUP/UUP, which will
Keep a unionist party in power for another while. Unionists parties  never seem to play the long game, which would be to try and retain Britishness in an inevitable All-Island structure for future generations. instead they'll do anything to avoid a United ireland during their own lifetime at the expense of sorting out a deal for their descendants. There are strong economic arguments for an All-island solution that even moderate unionists and reluctant "freestaters " could back . These need to be quantified, and as NI inevitably gets totally unviable, there will be less resistance from pragmatic unionists. What needs to be remembered however that when unionist politics are under pressure , sectarian foot soldiers appear , targetting innocent Catholics . A 32 county Ireland is potentially very close. If we feed the unionist bear with economic arguments, there'll be little resistance, but if we poke the bear with triumphalism , there could be a whole new generation of victims.

[balladmaker]

As I stated a few time, I don't know why the UUP aren't going to town on the DUP over this.

Because Submariner Steve is as think as shit and rather than try and get the middle ground back from Alliance he's trying to outdo the DUP in being so loyal and never never never on anything and he's never going to succeed there........

From
A unionist perspective he could be very smart. Unionists best chance of short term survival is to merge DUP/UUP, which will
Keep a unionist party in power for another while. Unionists parties  never seem to play the long game, which would be to try and retain Britishness in an inevitable All-Island structure for future generations. instead they'll do anything to avoid a United ireland during their own lifetime at the expense of sorting out a deal for their descendants. There are strong economic arguments for an All-island solution that even moderate unionists and reluctant "freestaters " could back . These need to be quantified, and as NI inevitably gets totally unviable, there will be less resistance from pragmatic unionists. What needs to be remembered however that when unionist politics are under pressure , sectarian foot soldiers appear , targetting innocent Catholics . A 32 county Ireland is potentially very close. If we feed the unionist bear with economic arguments, there'll be little resistance, but if we poke the bear with triumphalism , there could be a whole new generation of victims.

+1 ... God forbid another innocent person loses their life because of unionist sabre rattling or nationalist triumphalism.  In this new island, all should be on the table for discussion, the good and bad of north and south, and the end product should be something better for all on the island, not one or the other.  Are we up for having a new national flag or anthem?  Symbolism will play a major part in whatever new island emerges.

[marty34]

As I stated a few time, I don't know why the UUP aren't going to town on the DUP over this.

Because Submariner Steve is as think as shit and rather than try and get the middle ground back from Alliance he's trying to outdo the DUP in being so loyal and never never never on anything and he's never going to succeed there........

From
A unionist perspective he could be very smart. Unionists best chance of short term survival is to merge DUP/UUP, which will
Keep a unionist party in power for another while. Unionists parties  never seem to play the long game, which would be to try and retain Britishness in an inevitable All-Island structure for future generations. instead they'll do anything to avoid a United ireland during their own lifetime at the expense of sorting out a deal for their descendants. There are strong economic arguments for an All-island solution that even moderate unionists and reluctant "freestaters " could back . These need to be quantified, and as NI inevitably gets totally unviable, there will be less resistance from pragmatic unionists. What needs to be remembered however that when unionist politics are under pressure , sectarian foot soldiers appear , targetting innocent Catholics . A 32 county Ireland is potentially very close. If we feed the unionist bear with economic arguments, there'll be little resistance, but if we poke the bear with triumphalism , there could be a whole new generation of victims.

Is there such a thing as a guilty Catholic?

As I've said before - it's a sectarian little statelet.

Unionists, if you look back to the 1920's, 1960's and 1990's, will never change.  That's the way it is - when you strip all back.

Every July, it's the same - an anti-Irish hatefest which passes as culture. 

If anything unionists can be won over with discussions and debates, then they don't understand the history of the 6 counties.

[BennyCake]

As I stated a few time, I don't know why the UUP aren't going to town on the DUP over this.

Because Submariner Steve is as think as shit and rather than try and get the middle ground back from Alliance he's trying to outdo the DUP in being so loyal and never never never on anything and he's never going to succeed there........

From
A unionist perspective he could be very smart. Unionists best chance of short term survival is to merge DUP/UUP, which will
Keep a unionist party in power for another while. Unionists parties  never seem to play the long game, which would be to try and retain Britishness in an inevitable All-Island structure for future generations. instead they'll do anything to avoid a United ireland during their own lifetime at the expense of sorting out a deal for their descendants. There are strong economic arguments for an All-island solution that even moderate unionists and reluctant "freestaters " could back . These need to be quantified, and as NI inevitably gets totally unviable, there will be less resistance from pragmatic unionists. What needs to be remembered however that when unionist politics are under pressure , sectarian foot soldiers appear , targetting innocent Catholics . A 32 county Ireland is potentially very close. If we feed the unionist bear with economic arguments, there'll be little resistance, but if we poke the bear with triumphalism , there could be a whole new generation of victims.

+1 ... God forbid another innocent person loses their life because of unionist sabre rattling or nationalist triumphalism.  In this new island, all should be on the table for discussion, the good and bad of north and south, and the end product should be something better for all on the island, not one or the other.  Are we up for having a new national flag or anthem?  Symbolism will play a major part in whatever new island emerges.

Flag/anthem - will unionists recognise them? Very few will. Do nationalists recognise the flag/anthem of Norn Iron? Very few do, because it's a statelet they want no part of. Unionists will be the same way with regards to a UI.

If they were reluctantly dragged into a UÍ, you can sure that every ounce of Ireland and Irishness will be gnawed away at. Music, language, sport, culture, emblems etc. You seen how unionists reacted to city hall flag or blocked marches, so called erosion of their Protestant culture. Expect the same reactions in a UI by nationalists if similar happened.

[6th sam]

As I stated a few time, I don't know why the UUP aren't going to town on the DUP over this.

Because Submariner Steve is as think as shit and rather than try and get the middle ground back from Alliance he's trying to outdo the DUP in being so loyal and never never never on anything and he's never going to succeed there........

From
A unionist perspective he could be very smart. Unionists best chance of short term survival is to merge DUP/UUP, which will
Keep a unionist party in power for another while. Unionists parties  never seem to play the long game, which would be to try and retain Britishness in an inevitable All-Island structure for future generations. instead they'll do anything to avoid a United ireland during their own lifetime at the expense of sorting out a deal for their descendants. There are strong economic arguments for an All-island solution that even moderate unionists and reluctant "freestaters " could back . These need to be quantified, and as NI inevitably gets totally unviable, there will be less resistance from pragmatic unionists. What needs to be remembered however that when unionist politics are under pressure , sectarian foot soldiers appear , targetting innocent Catholics . A 32 county Ireland is potentially very close. If we feed the unionist bear with economic arguments, there'll be little resistance, but if we poke the bear with triumphalism , there could be a whole new generation of victims.

Is there such a thing as a guilty Catholic?

As I've said before - it's a sectarian little statelet.

Unionists, if you look back to the 1920's, 1960's and 1990's, will never change.  That's the way it is - when you strip all back.

Every July, it's the same - an anti-Irish hatefest which passes as culture. 

If anything unionists can be won over with discussions and debates, then they don't understand the history of the 6 counties.

So what's your solution Marty?

[restorepride]

As I stated a few time, I don't know why the UUP aren't going to town on the DUP over this.

Because Submariner Steve is as think as shit and rather than try and get the middle ground back from Alliance he's trying to outdo the DUP in being so loyal and never never never on anything and he's never going to succeed there........

From
A unionist perspective he could be very smart. Unionists best chance of short term survival is to merge DUP/UUP, which will
Keep a unionist party in power for another while. Unionists parties  never seem to play the long game, which would be to try and retain Britishness in an inevitable All-Island structure for future generations. instead they'll do anything to avoid a United ireland during their own lifetime at the expense of sorting out a deal for their descendants. There are strong economic arguments for an All-island solution that even moderate unionists and reluctant "freestaters " could back . These need to be quantified, and as NI inevitably gets totally unviable, there will be less resistance from pragmatic unionists. What needs to be remembered however that when unionist politics are under pressure , sectarian foot soldiers appear , targetting innocent Catholics . A 32 county Ireland is potentially very close. If we feed the unionist bear with economic arguments, there'll be little resistance, but if we poke the bear with triumphalism , there could be a whole new generation of victims.

+1 ... God forbid another innocent person loses their life because of unionist sabre rattling or nationalist triumphalism.  In this new island, all should be on the table for discussion, the good and bad of north and south, and the end product should be something better for all on the island, not one or the other.  Are we up for having a new national flag or anthem?  Symbolism will play a major part in whatever new island emerges.

Flag/anthem - will unionists recognise them? Very few will. Do nationalists recognise the flag/anthem of Norn Iron? Very few do, because it's a statelet they want no part of. Unionists will be the same way with regards to a UI.

If they were reluctantly dragged into a UÍ, you can sure that every ounce of Ireland and Irishness will be gnawed away at. Music, language, sport, culture, emblems etc. You seen how unionists reacted to city hall flag or blocked marches, so called erosion of their Protestant culture. Expect the same reactions in a UI by nationalists if similar happened.

What is this please?

[armaghniac]

Flag/anthem - will unionists recognise them? Very few will. Do nationalists recognise the flag/anthem of Norn Iron? Very few do, because it's a statelet they want no part of. Unionists will be the same way with regards to a UI.

If they were reluctantly dragged into a UÍ, you can sure that every ounce of Ireland and Irishness will be gnawed away at. Music, language, sport, culture, emblems etc. You seen how unionists reacted to city hall flag or blocked marches, so called erosion of their Protestant culture. Expect the same reactions in a UI by nationalists if similar happened.

NI is a colony whose political status was achieved by conquest, Ireland will be normal democratic society brought about by agreement. I'm not saying that unionists won't do as you say, but they would have zero justification and we should not dignify the idea that there is some symmetry here.

[restorepride]

Flag/anthem - will unionists recognise them? Very few will. Do nationalists recognise the flag/anthem of Norn Iron? Very few do, because it's a statelet they want no part of. Unionists will be the same way with regards to a UI.

If they were reluctantly dragged into a UÍ, you can sure that every ounce of Ireland and Irishness will be gnawed away at. Music, language, sport, culture, emblems etc. You seen how unionists reacted to city hall flag or blocked marches, so called erosion of their Protestant culture. Expect the same reactions in a UI by nationalists if similar happened.

NI is a colony whose political status was achieved by conquest, Ireland will be normal democratic society brought about by agreement. I'm not saying that unionists won't do as you say, but they would have zero justification and we should not dignify the idea that there is some symmetry here.

What is this - please enlighten us.

[BennyCake]

Flag/anthem - will unionists recognise them? Very few will. Do nationalists recognise the flag/anthem of Norn Iron? Very few do, because it's a statelet they want no part of. Unionists will be the same way with regards to a UI.

If they were reluctantly dragged into a UÍ, you can sure that every ounce of Ireland and Irishness will be gnawed away at. Music, language, sport, culture, emblems etc. You seen how unionists reacted to city hall flag or blocked marches, so called erosion of their Protestant culture. Expect the same reactions in a UI by nationalists if similar happened.

NI is a colony whose political status was achieved by conquest, Ireland will be normal democratic society brought about by agreement. I'm not saying that unionists won't do as you say, but they would have zero justification and we should not dignify the idea that there is some symmetry here.

I'm not saying theres symmetry, but I can envisage unionists wanting to be recognised in a new Ireland. Not just forced to accept all things Irish.

They'll make the connection that ...well you nationalists kicked up a fuss in NI for decades until compromises were made, unionist emblems removed, our culture eroded etc, and now we are under your rule, and we have to put up with shamrocks, harps, tri-colours and Irish language? What about our identity? Where's our union flag on Leinster House? Where's the Ulster Scots on the Irish passport? Why isn't Carson on the Euro coins?

[BennyCake]

As I stated a few time, I don't know why the UUP aren't going to town on the DUP over this.

Because Submariner Steve is as think as shit and rather than try and get the middle ground back from Alliance he's trying to outdo the DUP in being so loyal and never never never on anything and he's never going to succeed there........

From
A unionist perspective he could be very smart. Unionists best chance of short term survival is to merge DUP/UUP, which will
Keep a unionist party in power for another while. Unionists parties  never seem to play the long game, which would be to try and retain Britishness in an inevitable All-Island structure for future generations. instead they'll do anything to avoid a United ireland during their own lifetime at the expense of sorting out a deal for their descendants. There are strong economic arguments for an All-island solution that even moderate unionists and reluctant "freestaters " could back . These need to be quantified, and as NI inevitably gets totally unviable, there will be less resistance from pragmatic unionists. What needs to be remembered however that when unionist politics are under pressure , sectarian foot soldiers appear , targetting innocent Catholics . A 32 county Ireland is potentially very close. If we feed the unionist bear with economic arguments, there'll be little resistance, but if we poke the bear with triumphalism , there could be a whole new generation of victims.

+1 ... God forbid another innocent person loses their life because of unionist sabre rattling or nationalist triumphalism.  In this new island, all should be on the table for discussion, the good and bad of north and south, and the end product should be something better for all on the island, not one or the other.  Are we up for having a new national flag or anthem?  Symbolism will play a major part in whatever new island emerges.

Flag/anthem - will unionists recognise them? Very few will. Do nationalists recognise the flag/anthem of Norn Iron? Very few do, because it's a statelet they want no part of. Unionists will be the same way with regards to a UI.

If they were reluctantly dragged into a UÍ, you can sure that every ounce of Ireland and Irishness will be gnawed away at. Music, language, sport, culture, emblems etc. You seen how unionists reacted to city hall flag or blocked marches, so called erosion of their Protestant culture. Expect the same reactions in a UI by nationalists if similar happened.

What is this please?

It flies from a flag pole.

[armaghniac]

They'll make the connection that ...well you nationalists kicked up a fuss in NI for decades until compromises were made, unionist emblems removed, our culture eroded etc, and now we are under your rule, and we have to put up with shamrocks, harps, tri-colours and Irish language? What about our identity? Where's our union flag on Leinster House? Where's the Ulster Scots on the Irish passport? Why isn't Carson on the Euro coins?

Shamrocks were always distributed to the RUC. People will generally will speak English. The flag may be changed.
Unionists aren't the only group you know, there are hundreds of thousands of Poles here, should we put Kosciuszko on our coins?